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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-25

---Logopened Thu Oct 25 00:00:41 2007
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01:39<Tefad>heh just got locomotion for $3 new at a retail store.
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01:39<Tefad>figured i'd give it a whirl and see how much i hate it : D
01:42<Tefad>i am confused. it's accessing weird parts of the CD : x
01:43<Tefad>authenticate disc? booooo
01:44<Tefad>secure rom my arse
01:50<Ailure>haha
01:50<Tefad>yeah, it failed.
01:50<Ailure>just when I saw that there hadn't been a update for days
01:50<Ailure>[04:24] <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11340 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix[FS#1362]: Newindustries can provide no production at start. So the Modifying Production cheat was a bit puzzled on how to deal with it. This will help a bit.
01:51<Tefad>or that too
01:51<Ailure>ah
01:51<Ailure>Bad disc?
01:51<Tefad>no
01:51<Tefad>incompatible OS
01:51<Ailure>ah
01:52<Ailure>trying to install with Wine?
01:52<Tefad>yup.
01:52<Tefad>installed fine actually
01:52<Tefad>it just won't execute past the securom nonsense
01:52<Ailure>I swear I saw locomotion working on their application database
01:52<Tefad>yup. it says so.. probably with cracked exe
01:52<Ailure>You can try to look for a crack heh
01:53<Ailure>I doubt the game itself have problems to run
01:53<Tefad>it's still 2d right?
01:53<Ailure>well, I belive it uses same engine as rollerocaster tycoon too
01:53<Ailure>it apparently have (hilariously) same limits as TTD
01:53<Ailure>when it comes to colors
01:54<Ailure>and is still 256
01:54<Tefad>. . .
01:54<Tefad>seems like chris is stuck in the past like we are : x
01:54<Ailure>haha yeah
01:54<Tefad>except that we're moving on.. now anywy
01:54<Ailure>it's noticeable too
01:54<Ailure>at first glance, screenshot does look 32 bit
01:55<Ailure>but then you notice the lack of variance in colors...
01:56<Tefad>going to patch to 1.76
01:58<Tefad>aw no more chrissawyer.com ?
01:58<Ailure>http://www.chrissawyer.com/
01:58<Ailure>it works for me
01:59<Tefad>maybe i can't type.
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02:46<dihedral>morning
02:50<Kommer>morning :_)
02:53|-|Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd
02:53<Celestar>mesa back
02:53<Celestar>:)
02:55<Celestar>... and no one seems to care :P
02:56|-||Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd
02:57<Eddi|zuHause3>not at this hour ;)
02:57<Celestar>true
02:57<Eddi|zuHause3>welcome back anyway :)
02:57<Celestar>thanks
02:59<Celestar>TrueBrain: echo-request
03:00|-|mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
03:02<dihedral>TrueBrain: updated move_clients patch to v5, fixes the bug
03:02|-|dihedral changed nick to dihedral|away
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03:43<@TrueBrain>Celestar!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111111
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04:04<Celestar>TrueBrain: :)
04:05<Celestar>TrueBrain: I've heard there's some shortage concerning disk space?
04:10<@TrueBrain>Celestar: not anymore :) And your server couldn't carry it ;)
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04:13<Celestar>TrueBrain: I'll be upgrading the server in a month, just so that you know :)
04:13<@TrueBrain>hehe :)
04:14<Celestar>but not much, like to 250GB
04:14<@TrueBrain>then it might be useful ;)
04:14<@TrueBrain>but more important: how are you? :)
04:14<Celestar>pretty good :)
04:14<@TrueBrain>we haven't seen you in a while? :)
04:18<Celestar>no
04:18<Celestar>I just woke up one morning and found that I have a life :P
04:18<@TrueBrain>Wow! How was that like?! :)
04:18<Celestar>Weird I'm telling ya
04:18<@TrueBrain>can you teach us? :p
04:18<@TrueBrain>how is dancing? :)
04:19|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-222-11.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
04:19<Celestar>dancing is cool, we have our first national championship Nov 3rd
04:19<@TrueBrain>you are going to win, right? :P
04:19<Sionide>aw
04:19<Sionide>i saw national chamionship and thought you were talking ottd!
04:20<@TrueBrain>Sionide: as mentioned, some people DO have a real life :p
04:20<Sionide>O_o wtf
04:23<Celestar>TrueBrain: I don't think so :P
04:23<@TrueBrain>why not?! :( :p
04:23<@TrueBrain>Anyway, good luck :) Now I have to make some Scheme application, so I will be back later :)
04:23<@TrueBrain>Celestar: drop by more often, we like that :)
04:23<Celestar>TrueBrain: well, because those are basically professionals
04:23<Celestar>TrueBrain: I shall
04:24<@TrueBrain>and you aren't? :p :)
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04:25<Celestar>TrueBrain: nope I have a life (see above) :P
04:25<@TrueBrain>haha :)
04:25<@TrueBrain>bbl :)
04:25<@TrueBrain>(btw, really nice to see you again ;))
04:26<Celestar>gnah
04:26<Celestar>almost 1500 revs to catch up
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05:02[~]dihedral|away greets once round
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05:46<Ammler>Morning dihedral|away
05:47<Ammler>you made it!
05:51<@TrueBrain>bah, designing CPUs (and more specific: microcode) is a bitch
05:51<@TrueBrain>in specific, memory alignment
05:52|-|prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
05:53<dihedral|away>hello Ammler
05:53<Gekz>RCT was written 99% in ASM
05:53<Gekz>that's wtf material.
05:53<blathijs>TrueBrain: Wth are you doing writing microcode?
05:54<@TrueBrain>blathijs: because I have to
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05:55<blathijs>TrueBrain: Weren't you studying astronomy last time I checked?
05:55<@TrueBrain>blathijs: that was long ago :p
05:55<blathijs>Hmm, now what then?
05:55<@TrueBrain>guess? :p
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05:56<blathijs>TrueBrain: Something CS-ish or ES-ish? :-)
05:57<@TrueBrain>hmm.. in fact, this course covers both :p
05:57<@TrueBrain>but I have to simulate my CPU in C++, so that rules out ES :)
05:57<dihedral|away>lol
05:58[~]dihedral|away does not envy TrueBrain
05:58<@TrueBrain>LB: Temp AND A Const 0x3
05:58<@TrueBrain> Temp SLL Temp Const 3
05:58<@TrueBrain> Temp SLL Const Temp 0xFF
05:58<@TrueBrain> C AND MDR Temp
05:59<@TrueBrain>Yeah, you shouldn't :p
05:59<@TrueBrain>(okay, that was the worst copy/paste ever)
06:01<blathijs>TrueBrain: No VHDL? :-)
06:02<@TrueBrain>blathijs: lucky enough, I only need to be able to read it :p
06:02<blathijs>VHDL is actually quite cool, as long as you get it explained properly :-)
06:02<@TrueBrain>argh, I hate alignment.. either I miss a register to do what I want, or I get the wrong byte :p
06:03<blathijs>TrueBrain: What kind of CPU is it?
06:03<@TrueBrain>we need to do a MIPS implementation
06:04<blathijs>ah, we did a MIPS in VHDL here :-)
06:04<@TrueBrain>we also needed to make the datapath and shit
06:04<@TrueBrain>nasty stuff
06:04<blathijs>in C++?
06:04<@TrueBrain>no, draw it
06:04<blathijs>ah
06:04<blathijs>That makes more sense :-)
06:04<blathijs>brb, reboot
06:04<@TrueBrain>hmm.. BE... was that 1234 or 4321
06:04<@TrueBrain>I can never remember...
06:05<blathijs>Big Endian was the one that makes sense
06:05<@TrueBrain>so 1234
06:05<blathijs>where 4 is LSB?
06:05<@TrueBrain>yes
06:05<@TrueBrain>and 1 MSB
06:06<blathijs>then, yes (IIRC)
06:06<@TrueBrain>okay, my question is wrong: 1234, in BE is 1 MSB or 4? :p
06:06<blathijs>1 is MSB
06:07<@TrueBrain>well aint that fucked :)
06:08<blathijs>why?
06:08<@TrueBrain>hmm
06:08<@TrueBrain>I hate endian
06:08<@TrueBrain>better question: 1234[0] == ? at BE? :p
06:08<@TrueBrain>lol
06:08<@TrueBrain>blathijs: either LE or BE needs a 4 - alignment-rest
06:08<@TrueBrain>but I am too sleepy :p
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06:10<@TrueBrain>blathijs: ah, I now remember :)
06:10<@TrueBrain>BE 02 is 00 00 00 02, and LE 02 is 02 00 00 00
06:10<@TrueBrain>tnx ;) Hehe :)
06:11<dihedral|away>i was having those issues all the time when reading the ottd udp packets :-P
06:11<@TrueBrain>dihedral|away: OTTD is LE
06:11<@TrueBrain>so that should be relative easy ;)
06:11<@TrueBrain>I read the Earth and Beyond protocol
06:11<dihedral|away>is it not BE for exactly _one_ thing?
06:11<@TrueBrain>it has a mix of BE and LE
06:11<@TrueBrain>in 1 packet
06:11<dihedral|away>nice
06:12<dihedral|away>now that is fun
06:12<@TrueBrain>dihedral|away: for OpenTTD we use wrapper, WriteByte, WriteWord, ... which take care of it
06:12<@TrueBrain>so it is all in 1 alignment
06:12<dihedral|away>yes
06:12<dihedral|away>but when i read the data with php i need my own wrappers :-)
06:12<@TrueBrain>dihedral|away: it became confusing.. an array with an array size.. the size was in LE, the content was in BE
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06:12<@TrueBrain>that I already provided you :p
06:12<dihedral|away>it was brocken for some parts
06:12<@TrueBrain>too bad :)
06:13<dihedral|away>esp. the uin64
06:13<blathijs>TrueBrain: That's what I meant with BE makes sense :-)
06:14<@TrueBrain>blathijs: I agree :)
06:14<dihedral|away>i was thinking of, when moving a client to a non existent but valid player, to create the player
06:14<dihedral|away>so spectating clients would not have to leave and join to start a company
06:15<dihedral|away>a move would do the trick :-P
06:15<dihedral|away>or in fact, have a console cmd for clients
06:15<dihedral|away>for that purpose
06:16<dihedral|away>comments?
06:17<@TrueBrain>ha, I just removed 12 microcodes :) That makes me happy :) (less codes == less money ;))
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06:21<dihedral|away>lol
06:21<@TrueBrain>12 on 80 is a lot!
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06:23<@TrueBrain>downside is that loading of words take 3 cpu cycles which are useless...
06:23<@TrueBrain>sad...
06:24<dihedral|away>wow
06:24<dihedral|away>that is crazy
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06:39<Ammler>dihedral|away: there should be already be something for that, if you click on new company for joining...
06:39<dihedral|away>Ammler: what you mean?
06:40<dihedral|away>oh
06:40<dihedral|away>yes
06:40<dihedral|away>but it needs to be created on all clients
06:40<dihedral|away>?
06:40<dihedral|away>and esp the server
06:40<dihedral|away>but it would be nice if 'move' could do that
06:40<dihedral|away>- have that result
06:41<dihedral|away>atm the company has to exist
06:41|-|BiA|pavel-css [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
06:41<BiA|pavel-css>hi
06:41<dihedral|away>hello
06:42[~]dihedral|away is out again...
06:42|-|dihedral|away changed nick to dihedral|lunch
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06:50<Ammler>dihedral|lunch: its also needed for every client when you join the server, isn't?
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07:07|-|dihedral|lunch changed nick to dihedral
07:07<dihedral>Ammler: yes, just need to include the funcion/method calles :)
07:08<Ammler>dihedral: do you know, how to link to a post in a forum?
07:12<dihedral>??
07:12<dihedral>why
07:13<dihedral>what for Ammler
07:14<Ammler>you made a nice link to the party grf
07:15<dihedral>:-P
07:17<Ammler>dihedral: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php?title=World_Wide_OpenTTD_Game_Day/1&diff=prev&oldid=22057
07:17<Ammler>you linked to the gif, :P
07:18<dihedral>|[http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=635669#p635669 partysquare.grf]<br>[http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=636058#p636058 streetlights.grf]
07:18<dihedral>no sorry
07:18<dihedral>wrong page...
07:19<dihedral>ah well... :-P
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07:21<BiA|pavel-css>anyone can compile ottd for win here? :/
07:22<Ammler>BiA|pavel-css: try BuildOTTD
07:23<Ammler>its sticked in the Forums
07:24<BiA|pavel-css>anythink work for me :/
07:24<BiA|pavel-css>Vs have internal compiler error ... cygwin cant found verion and then it freeze
07:24<Ammler>don't use tools from Microsoft
07:25<Ammler>just use BuildOTTD...
07:25<BiA|pavel-css>buildottd compile game and patching it too?
07:25<Ammler>yes, of course
07:25<BiA|pavel-css>ok, gonna try another one
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07:28<BiA|pavel-css>can i patch it with more patches or jsut one?
07:31<Ammler>BiA|pavel-css:
07:31<Ammler>thats more difficult, I guess
07:32<dihedral>just because you build with buildottd, does it mean you need to patch with it?
07:32<BiA|pavel-css>i will patch it via cygwin and compile via that :P
07:32<BiA|pavel-css>yeah, right ;)
07:32<dihedral>what are you up to BiA|pavel-css
07:32<dihedral>afaik, all servers that run IN's offer win binaries
07:33<BiA|pavel-css>i want just ottd +4patches no more .. to play with friends
07:33<dihedral>or at least win bins are available for all IN's, no?
07:33<BiA|pavel-css>i dont like public server so much, usualy some nerd there
07:34<dihedral>there is always 'some nerd'
07:34<BiA|pavel-css>if i play with friends with our rules ... no theres not
07:34<dihedral>if you build a patched version just for you and your friends, it makes you the nerd in there :-)
07:34<BiA|pavel-css>:-/ why?
07:35<dihedral>what do you understand under 'nerd'
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07:35[~]BiA|pavel-css is looking to vocabulary
07:36<BiA|pavel-css>idiot? :P
07:36<Ammler>hmm, maybe you should join #openttdcoop or dihedral.de
07:36<BiA|pavel-css>whats there?
07:36<Ammler>these are moderated servers
07:36<dihedral>some sanity
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07:37<Ammler>admins are most time around...
07:37<dihedral>and if not, you can call them
07:37<BiA|pavel-css>hmm
07:37<BiA|pavel-css>they r at irc.oftc.net too?
07:38<dihedral>#openttdcoop and #openttdFairPlay
07:38<Ammler>#openttdcoop is for cooperative gameplay and dihedral is more for competative (if you like to have your own company)
07:38<dihedral>both require you to play acording to some set down rules
07:39<dihedral>and people have a max chance of doing something bad _once_
07:39<dihedral>worst case scenario: we blacklist an entire isp :-)
07:39<BiA|pavel-css>competative? i will have my part of map and noone will distract me? :P
07:40<dihedral>industry stealing is the term you want
07:40<BiA|pavel-css>:)
07:40<dihedral>industry stealing is something i do not support on my FairPlay games
07:41<dihedral>i am working towards a competitive game, where InduStealing is going to be encouraged, but that is not yet in place
07:41<dihedral>in coop, all play in one company, with the aim to have an amazing network
07:41<dihedral>transporting everything on the map
07:41<BiA|pavel-css>:oP
07:41<dihedral>*depending on the game play chosen
07:42<dihedral>you get some pretty amazing stuff there
07:42<dihedral>some 1000+ trains
07:43<dihedral>and a flow that just is amazing
07:43<BiA|pavel-css>btw, with buildottd i its downloading on its own? i cant set it to my direction?
07:45<dihedral>i have no idea, never used it :-)
07:45<dihedral>Ammler?
07:46<BiA|pavel-css><- launch
07:47<dihedral>lunch or launch?
07:48<Ammler>BiA|pavel-css: yep, it makes a faldoer in your MyDocuments
07:48<Ammler>Folder
07:49<dihedral>i think he meant lunch :-P
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07:55<Ammller>BigBB: Hi, how is your patch going, could I include newwater to my GRF Pack?
07:58<BigBB>Ammler: hi, in the last days I had lot of work. So I now make the patch flyspray ready. I hope it's ready till weakend :)
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08:03<Ammller>sounds nice, then I will include newest newwater to the pack...
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08:18<BiA|pavel-css>Ammller: can i compile from my directory?
08:18<BiA|pavel-css>and yeah i meant lunch ;)
08:20<Ammller>BiA|pavel-css: I don't know compiling on windows well, thats why I use BOTTD, but you have now mingw or how is it called and should be able to compile with make like we do on linux
08:22<BiA|pavel-css>i mean ... it use svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ... can i use for example d:\nb_11339?
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08:26<BiA|pavel-css>Ammller: i mean ... it use svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ... can i use for example d:\nb_11339?
08:27<Ammller>BiA|pavel-css: ask at the thread...
08:27<dihedral>14:20 < Ammller> BiA|pavel-css: I don't know compiling on windows well, thats why I use BOTTD, but you have now mingw or how is it called and should be able to compile with make like we do on linux
08:28<BiA|pavel-css>" thats why I use BOTTD" so i thought he know
08:28<Ammller>I use BOTTD, because I have no idea about windows compiling...
08:29<Ammller>but you should now have the tools like I have, svn and make
08:29<Ammller>so you can checkout an other source with svn checkout svn://svn.....
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08:29<Ammller>and you should be able to do make
08:32<Ammller>there are People like XeryusTC or Phazorx, who are specialists in Windows compiling...
08:33<BiA|pavel-css>good that, they r afk :/
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08:36<XeryusTC>no i aint :P
08:36<dihedral>BiA|pavel-css: perhaps it is good that they are afk :-P
08:36<dihedral>on me way home
08:36<dihedral>cu later on
08:36|-|dihedral changed nick to dihedral|away
08:37<BiA|pavel-css>XeryusTC so u r the specialist? :)
08:38<XeryusTC>not if you talk like that
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08:54<BiA|pavel-css>XeryusTC do u understand compiling with BOTTD ... i mean patching, to patch with more patches and if failed sth, then how can i erpair it ... :-/
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08:56<XeryusTC>i dont use BOTTD
08:56<XeryusTC>i do it manually
08:57<BiA|pavel-css>so you are on linux?
08:57<XeryusTC>no
08:57<BiA|pavel-css>with what are you compiling? cygwin?
08:58<XeryusTC>mingw
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08:59<LeviathNL>how do you make an vehicle go nonstop to a station?
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09:02<LeviathNL>oh only trains have a non-stop order
09:08<Rexxie>why would you set it on anything else?
09:08<Rexxie>stop it from doing service checks?
09:10<hylje>remove depots
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09:41<dihedral>hello
09:42<dihedral>have a nice question for you guys
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09:42<dihedral>in a doCommand packet, received on the server, for changing the company name, the value in command.h is 56
09:43<dihedral>yet outputting the received value gives me a 1879769144
09:43<dihedral>though other commands (e.g. change face) work fine
09:44<BiA|pavel-css>hey dihedral :)
09:44<dihedral>hello
09:44<BiA|pavel-css>so BOTTD compiled trunk ;)
09:45<BiA|pavel-css>but i cant patch it anyway :(
09:45<BiA|pavel-css>because, if somethink in patch failed, it continue compiling :(
09:46<dihedral>BiA|pavel-css: i cannot help you with BOTTD stuff
09:46<dihedral>i never build on windows
09:46<dihedral>only linux and osx
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09:56<@Belugas>so, BiA|pavel-css, it would be up to you to fix the problem in the patch processing and make it work correctly then
09:57[~]dihedral greets Ammler
09:58<Ammler>heya again all
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09:59<dihedral>does this work: case CMD_CHANGE_COMPANY_NAME|CMD_NETWORK_COMMAND:
10:03<dihedral>i dont get it :-S
10:04<BiA|pavel-css>Belugas is anywhere aptch tutirial or sth? :/
10:04<dihedral>in the forums
10:04<BiA|pavel-css>okay
10:04<dihedral>on the wiki
10:05<dihedral>Belugas: are you familiar with DoCommands?
10:05<dihedral>to some extent...
10:06<@TrueBrain>[15:42] <dihedral> in a doCommand packet, received on the server, for changing the company name, the value in command.h is 56 <- 'value', very clear statement... still I have NO idea what you are talking about
10:07<dihedral>do command 56 is the do command for CMD_CHANGE_COMPANY_NAME
10:07<dihedral>or, the value of CMD_CHANGE....
10:07<@TrueBrain>why are you even trying to find the numbers? It doesn't really matter, does it? :)
10:07<dihedral>i am trying to disable changing such data for wwottdgd
10:07<mikl>mmm, magic numbers :D
10:08<dihedral>so 10 people in one company dont muddle around with name color face, etc for 36 hours
10:08<@TrueBrain>dihedral: just in the ChangeCompanyName, do a return CMD_ERROR
10:08<@TrueBrain>don't make it hard on yourself
10:08<dihedral>i was hoping catch it before the command is cued
10:08<@TrueBrain>return CMD_ERROR at begin of command, and that is exactly what happens
10:08<@Belugas>BiA|pavel-css, it's not a matter of how patch works.... patch simply applies a patch. It's how to find WHY it did not patch, or better what are the errors. only then, you will be able to correct the code to make it correct. It means programming knowledge
10:08<@TrueBrain>the client can't do it, as it return an error
10:08<dihedral>TrueBrain: so i am in DEF_SERVER_RECEIVE_COMMAND(PACKET_CLIENT_COMMAND)
10:08<@TrueBrain>and if someone bypasses it, the server stops it
10:08<@Belugas>dihedral, not at all, or very little
10:09<@TrueBrain>dihedral: don't
10:09<@TrueBrain>very simple: don't
10:09<Phazorx>TrueBrain: sorry to bother, but will you have time to do a v10 with landing fees today
10:09<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: doubtful
10:09<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: I will do my best, but currently I have an argument with OODraw
10:09<Phazorx>heh
10:10<dihedral>TrueBrain: would it be easier if i made those buttons for a company 'dirty'?
10:10<@TrueBrain>dihedral: that too helps
10:10<BiA|pavel-css>Belugas: if i know what @@ -218,7 +218,7 @@ or @@ -100,7 +100,7 @@ mean, then i could make my own patch file with correct rows and bottd will dont gimme any failed :/
10:10<@TrueBrain>but add 'return CMD_ERROR;' at line 221 in misc_cmd.cpp
10:10<@TrueBrain>and you won't have any name changing during the game
10:11<dihedral>thanks
10:11<@TrueBrain>dihedral: second step is to make the button grey
10:11<dihedral>k
10:11<+glx>or hidding it
10:11<@TrueBrain>dihedral: never fiddle with raw commands, it is ugly, most of the time stupid, and not needed :)
10:11<@TrueBrain>now who here can help me with OODraw :(
10:11<dihedral>heh :-)
10:12<dihedral>thanks TrueBrain
10:12<@TrueBrain>np
10:13<@Belugas>BiA|pavel-css : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_%28Unix%29
10:13<@TrueBrain>ha, found it :)
10:14<@Belugas>those numbers indicate the lines where the hunk in the diff starts
10:14<@Belugas>and a bit more
10:14<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: okay, I have like 15 minutes befor eI need to do some shopping, let me see if I can find where landing is done
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10:17<@TrueBrain>k, Phazorx, how much for landing?
10:18<dihedral>would it be possible to do landing on a 'days at airport' basis?
10:19<dihedral>i was too tired to remember what we said yesterday :-D
10:19<@TrueBrain>dihedral: sigh, I hate to repeat myself: no
10:19<dihedral>:-P
10:19<Phazorx>TrueBrain: can it be fraction of running costs ?
10:19<@TrueBrain>would be unfair, I think
10:19<@TrueBrain>or, running cost
10:19<@TrueBrain>hmm
10:19<@TrueBrain>no, that is possible
10:19<@TrueBrain>let me look it up
10:20<Phazorx>same for all
10:20<dihedral>what about last profit?
10:20<Phazorx>dihedral: that aint fair for sure
10:20<dihedral>shy
10:20<Phazorx>airports charge you based on cost, not income
10:20<@TrueBrain>I thought Phazorx ment that, that indeed is very unfair ;)
10:20<dihedral>a good runing plane pays more
10:20<Phazorx>dihedral: nope
10:20<Phazorx>easrns more
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10:20<dihedral>and therefor should pay more
10:20<Phazorx>nope
10:21<dihedral>nope?
10:21<@TrueBrain>dihedral: very unfair :)
10:21<Phazorx>you are thingking about goverment taxes
10:21<Phazorx>which are based on income
10:21<@TrueBrain>if my plane takes 1 year to go from A to B, it pays less :p
10:21<Phazorx>airport fees are based on cost ofn service
10:21<Phazorx>TrueBrain: 8% of running coastearly
10:22<Phazorx>cuz 10 would be too much :)
10:22<Phazorx>and 5 too little
10:22<dihedral>and if a plane services to gloabl arports?
10:22<Phazorx>no difference
10:22<Phazorx>and it can only service at global airports
10:23<Phazorx>TrueBrain: stopping is a problem right?
10:23<BiA|pavel-css>sooo "@@ -'starting row','number of rows at start' +'starting row','number of rows after compile' @@" ???
10:23<@TrueBrain>lol, something is slightly wrong...
10:23<@TrueBrain>70k for landing....
10:23<@TrueBrain>which is 10% of the running cost....
10:23<Phazorx>TrueBrain: errr
10:23<dihedral>BiA|pavel-css: you dont write patches by hand
10:23<BiA|pavel-css>i must :P
10:23<dihedral>BiA|pavel-css: you change the code and use svn diff
10:23<Phazorx>that doesnt sound right at all
10:23<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: that sounds wrong, and it is wrong :)
10:24<BiA|pavel-css>?? svn diff??
10:24<Phazorx>i'm looking at A380 - 239k/y
10:24<Phazorx>should be around 20k per landing
10:24<Phazorx>that's most expansive to maintain
10:24<dihedral>BiA|pavel-css: do you have tortoise
10:24<BiA|pavel-css>y
10:24<+glx>BiA|pavel-css: never modify a .diff/.patch by hand, unless you know what you do
10:24<BiA|pavel-css>i know if what i have wrote is right
10:24<dihedral>make patch and apply patch are the 2 options you want
10:24<Phazorx>TrueBrain: actualy make it 5% :)
10:25<Phazorx>cuz we have airmod to bump the costs
10:25<BiA|pavel-css>anyone work with vs?
10:25<Phazorx>BiA|pavel-css: most of us aer sane, hence no
10:25<@TrueBrain>lol, global company also has to pay :p
10:26<@TrueBrain>but gets the money too, so nothing happens :)
10:26<Phazorx>TrueBrain: that'sfine :)
10:26[~]dihedral envy's TB's amount patience
10:26<@TrueBrain>which?
10:26<dihedral>nvm
10:26<@TrueBrain>1.5M to land a plane
10:27<@TrueBrain>WHOHO!
10:27<@TrueBrain>smells like shit
10:27<dihedral>LOL
10:27<dihedral>depends for whom
10:27<@TrueBrain>v->GetRunningCost();
10:27<@TrueBrain>one might suspects that that returns the correct number
10:27<@TrueBrain>hmm, it is, per year...
10:28<dihedral>how about a precentage of the income from the cargo of that airport when delivered
10:28<dihedral>which would in fact emulate passangers paying the airport fee
10:28<dihedral>which is a precentage of ticket
10:28<dihedral>no
10:28<dihedral>it's no
10:28<@TrueBrain>dihedral: which doesn't happen in real life
10:28<dihedral>forget it
10:29<dihedral>it's a fixed fee right?
10:29<@TrueBrain>yes, depending on airport
10:29<@TrueBrain>and your relation with it
10:29<Phazorx>fix fee per plane type
10:29<@TrueBrain>and time of landing
10:29<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: you are sure about the 5%?
10:29<Phazorx>cuz it is servicve+dispatching fees+fuel+staff
10:29<@TrueBrain>isn't much...
10:29<Phazorx>TrueBrain: we have airmod that bump running costs
10:30<@TrueBrain>landing at 0700 is cheaper than landing at 2000 ;)
10:30<Phazorx>probably will be x4
10:30<@TrueBrain>k
10:30<@TrueBrain>then this works
10:30<Phazorx>yeah
10:30<@TrueBrain>let me give a quick look at stopping..
10:30<Phazorx>A380 will pay ~1mil running and 50k per landing
10:30<dihedral>that's good
10:31<dihedral>is that charge added to running costs?
10:31<dihedral>or deducted from air income
10:31<@TrueBrain>to the yearly income of course
10:31<@TrueBrain>running cost cna't change
10:31<dihedral>for the paying client..., in the finance window
10:32<@TrueBrain>is added to Other
10:32<dihedral>k
10:32<@TrueBrain>like Rail
10:32<dihedral>ah
10:32<Phazorx>for day 2 would be nice to include extra stats for economy overview
10:32<Phazorx>so one can see how much they pay for provided services
10:33<Ammler>btw, is it hard to remove the "notbuildingairport" for other companies, would like to see that in the final wwottdgd IN we are making tonight
10:33<Phazorx>Ammler: that defies the point then
10:34<@TrueBrain>it might be more useful if you guys agree for once on things :p
10:34<Phazorx>TrueBrain: my understanding w3as that it would be all land at all then
10:34<Ammler>yep, I mean that...
10:35<Phazorx>rather than global only
10:35<dihedral>i thought clients will be allowed to have their own zone wide air service
10:35<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: your understanding of WHAT?
10:35<@TrueBrain>3 people, 3 different ideas about one thing
10:35<@TrueBrain>while one person told me: only allow global to build airports
10:35<@TrueBrain>see, that is more clear, and leaves little room for interpertation :)
10:35<Ammler>this airport thing is too less important
10:35<dihedral>it's good
10:35<Phazorx>Ammler: so leave it in hands of global
10:36<Ammler>thats why we never discussed it clearly
10:36<dihedral>meet at .admin?
10:36<Phazorx>TrueBrain: my understanding was that if not only global builds airports they all become global
10:36<Phazorx>and all can land at all
10:36<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: you told me that only Global should be able to build airports ;) And I have the logs to proof it! MWHAHAHAHA :)
10:37<Phazorx>TrueBrain: i did
10:37<@TrueBrain>anyway, what ever, airport thingies are done: stop can't be done, only in hangar
10:37<Phazorx>and that is desired
10:37<Ammler>I guess, he asked you if that is possible
10:37<@TrueBrain>and fee is paid upon landing
10:37<Ammler>not that you have to code it that way... :)
10:37<@TrueBrain>Ammler: sorry, my mistake, I will stop doing anything he asks if possible
10:37<Ammler>your are coding too fast
10:37<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: v10 is up
10:38<Ammler>omg
10:38<Ammler>bugfix or new features?
10:38<@TrueBrain>Ammler: did you read anything I said?
10:38<@TrueBrain>or you just start typing blindly?
10:39<Phazorx>TrueBrain: thank you much
10:39<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: I have at top 30 minutes of time today, so if you need anything else, think it through clearly, and just ask ;)
10:39<Phazorx>TrueBrain: we shall test i guess
10:39<Ammler>does mean, everything you told is in teh code, ok...
10:39<Phazorx>but i'm quite happy about how it works
10:40<@TrueBrain>I like it too ;)
10:40<@TrueBrain>and airport fee is nice
10:40<@TrueBrain>too bad we didn't test docks and busstations ;)
10:40<Ammler>i tested busstations
10:40<@TrueBrain>(remember, they are shared too!)
10:40<Ammler>they are shared, no idea about fees
10:40<@TrueBrain>no fees
10:40<@TrueBrain>tram track most likely isn't shared
10:40<Phazorx>TrueBrain: it is
10:41<Ammler>they are shared since they are in
10:41<Ammler>like roads
10:41<@TrueBrain>I wonder which PF takes care of that ;)
10:41<dihedral>yep
10:41<Phazorx>TrueBrain: yapf
10:41<Phazorx>at least that's how it is set
10:41<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: but I only told it to ignore owner with rails :)
10:41<Phazorx>oops
10:41<@TrueBrain>so I wonder if you can 'share' in trunk too :p
10:41<Phazorx>well it wont be an issue
10:41<@TrueBrain>nah, but I was wondering :)
10:41<Phazorx>since on that game busses/trams should never met
10:41<Ammler>TrueBrain: tram tracks?
10:41<@TrueBrain>anyway, shopping time!!
10:42<@TrueBrain>enjoy the patch :)
10:42<dihedral>thank you TrueBrain
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10:42<Ammler>indeed, thanks
10:42<@TrueBrain>:)
10:42<@TrueBrain>oh, and dihedral, let me know if you can't get the changecompanyname done and stuff
10:43<dihedral>shall do, thanks
10:46<+glx>tram tracks are shared in trunk
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11:07<Phazorx>TrueBrain: still here?
11:07<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: I am now :)
11:07<@TrueBrain>glx: tnx, clear feedback :)
11:07<Phazorx>i got a stupid request
11:08<@TrueBrain>then without doubt you get a stupid reply
11:08<@TrueBrain>:P
11:08<Phazorx>disable "plant trees of random type" button
11:08<@TrueBrain>ha, a typical: that I leave for the reader ;)
11:09<Phazorx>TrueBrain: we will set the rules
11:09<Phazorx>but i click that thing on autopilot
11:09<Phazorx>so reading wont help much
11:09<@TrueBrain>no, I ment code-wise :)
11:10<@TrueBrain>you know, when learning to do something
11:10<@TrueBrain>they always leave those excursises?
11:10<@TrueBrain>for the reader to do?
11:10<Phazorx>yeah :)
11:14<@TrueBrain>hmm, I can't count to 16 :s
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11:15<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: but in case you have troubles doing it yourself: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/wwottdgd_no_random_tree.diff
11:15<Phazorx>is that one lince commented?
11:16<Phazorx>i t6ihnk we have 3 versions of that patch already since each of me Ammler and dihedral did it :)
11:16<@TrueBrain>commented?
11:16<Phazorx>ahh nm
11:16<Phazorx>that is different :)
11:16<Phazorx>thanks
11:16<@TrueBrain>and if you have it already, why you asked? :p
11:16<dihedral>i never touched the trees... yet :-)
11:16<dihedral>it does not work
11:17<dihedral>we watched trees growing yesterday
11:17<@TrueBrain>this isn't tree growth
11:17<@TrueBrain>this is only random tree
11:17<Ammler>dihedral, it works
11:18<dihedral>oh - yes
11:18<dihedral>compression
11:18<Ammler>but the problem is, if you have already trees, the grow then
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11:18<dihedral>smae trees = better compression
11:18<@TrueBrain>lol, bullshit, the compression works on byte level
11:18<Ammler>and growing means also grow to the next tile, it seems..., irght?
11:18<@TrueBrain>so: same height, same type, that helps :)
11:19<@TrueBrain>no trees, that helps too
11:19<@TrueBrain>but okay, blabla :)
11:20<Phazorx>TrueBrain: when you plant they are same everything
11:20<Phazorx>unless you do random
11:20<Phazorx>when server plants they are random everything
11:20<Phazorx>startring with localtion
11:20<Phazorx>when i shaved the map from trrees it went from 2.5 to 750k
11:21<Phazorx>2.5M
11:21<Phazorx>it looks less nice of course but you can still plant
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11:32<Ammler>TrueBrain: when is last possible time, you can make the final wwottdgd build for us?
11:32<Ammler>(compile farm)
11:32<Phazorx>TrueBrain: as i recall you have a significant other coming tonight, can we make some arrangement for official binaries?
11:33<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: sure
11:33<Phazorx>tomorrow night?
11:33<Phazorx>if that wont be too much to ask...
11:33<@TrueBrain>gimme a time :)
11:33<dihedral>1800?
11:34<Phazorx>after dinner :)
11:34<dihedral>please not the questionmark :-)
11:34<@TrueBrain>gimme an url where the final patch will be for sure?
11:34<@TrueBrain>(I won't be able to access IRC :p)
11:34<dihedral>we shall post it in http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/WWOTTDGD1
11:34<@TrueBrain>k
11:34<@TrueBrain>I will start the binary around 20:00 tomorrow night
11:34<Ammler>hmm, do we now include the GRF pack too?
11:34<Phazorx>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/devserver_archive/wwottdgd_in_final.diff ?
11:35<Phazorx>Ammler: yes if we have the,
11:35<@TrueBrain>and check again around 12:30 saturday
11:35<dihedral>Phazorx: i said we would post it on the wiki page...
11:35<Phazorx>dihedral: kk
11:35<@TrueBrain>(btw, times are in CEST :))
11:35<dihedral>k
11:35<Phazorx>most likely that url will work
11:36<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: k
11:36<Ammler>oh yeah, btw dihedral, you have posted it other way in your blog...
11:37<dihedral>??
11:37<Ammler>12:30 is UTC
11:37<Ammler>so the game starts at 14:30 CEST
11:37<dihedral>k
11:37<dihedral>will fix, thanks
11:37<Ammler>or did we change that?
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11:38<skidd13>Hi
11:38<Ammler>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/WWOTTDGD1#Start <-- included swatch time :)
11:39<dihedral>hello skidd
11:42<skidd13>Anyone in here who cares about the wiki?
11:42<skidd13>IMO the http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Peter1138/Towngrowth_Challenge#Overview_generated_by_pts_for_OCS: is awfull
11:42<skidd13>I'd prefer to change it to http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=towngrowthchallengexz4.png
11:42<skidd13>Hi dihedral
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11:45<skidd13>No one from the wiki admins here?
11:48<Ammler>skidd13: isn't that opsolete since newindustries?
11:49<Ammler>the newcargo thing I mean?
11:49<skidd13>Nope I'm interested in the part of modifying the towns ;)
11:49<skidd13>NewGRF towns
11:51<@Belugas>so do i
11:51<Ammler>its something like a new cargo scheme
11:51<Ammler>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSCargoTypes
11:51<@Belugas>no, it's something like a new gameplay
11:51<skidd13>Belugas: agreed :)
11:52<skidd13>But I miss the printing works in there ;)
11:52[~]Belugas loves the community, village, township (and all) idea
11:53<skidd13>:D The town size/economy stuff sounds realy interesting
11:53[~]Belugas nods
11:53<skidd13>So whats with the replacement of the graph?
11:54<@Belugas>like... waht can affect growth ...
11:54<Ammler>hmm, don't get you, is that not just another http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/newcargos/img/Cargo%20vectors%2015.png
11:54<@Belugas>graph?
11:54<skidd13>^^^^ http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Peter1138/Towngrowth_Challenge#Overview_generated_by_pts_for_OCS: to http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=towngrowthchallengexz4.png
11:55<@Belugas>ammler, where do you see in your link the effets on towns? Please, read and understand the whole concept before commentingf
11:55<skidd13>or is it called flow chart?
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11:55<@Belugas>ho... i see...
11:56<@Belugas>does the same, isn't it?
11:56<Phazorx>Ammler: get to the grf authoring :)
11:56<Phazorx>and dont argue with devs :)
11:57<skidd13>Belugas: yup, but mine fits a bit better in the layout and uses colors to differ the stuff better
11:57<@Belugas>agreed. but i would ask peter1138, if i were you.
11:57<Ammler>so you only dislike the graph, sorry then...
11:58<@Belugas>?
11:58<skidd13>@seen peter1138
11:58<@DorpsGek>skidd13: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 7 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <peter1138> _minime_, looks good to me
11:58<skidd13>Belugas: Haha ;)
11:58<@Belugas>Ammler : Is an apple the same as an orange? no. That's the point
11:59<@Belugas>skidd13, i know, but i do know that his email address is still active ;)
12:04[~]Belugas resumes his work on moreairports
12:04<Ammler>skidd13: you are working ont that?
12:05<Ammler>is that all possible with newgrf?
12:05<skidd13>Ammler: what are you talking about?
12:05[~]Belugas skidd13
12:05<Ammler>this wiki page
12:06<Ammler>that needs much codechange too
12:07<skidd13>I'm thinking in what direction the development of OpenTTD could go. Nothing less or more.
12:07<hylje>roadmaps have the general image
12:07<hylje>then contributions and on-a-whim patches there and here
12:08<@Belugas>are roadmaps the work of devs?
12:08<Ammler>not?
12:08<hylje>i have no idea
12:08<hylje>but i doubt that they're up for nothing either
12:09<skidd13>hylje: sure. But there is a huge space between the raodmaps and to what OpenTTD could raise. ;)
12:09<@Belugas>let see... roadmap for 0.7 : only dev who contributed : peter1138
12:09<@Belugas>says it all, don't you think?
12:09<hylje>i suppose
12:09<@Belugas>oh.. and Rubidium too, at the top
12:09<Ammler>but this wiki page is not "just" a direction, it more..
12:10<hylje>so its just the on-a-whim stuff from devs and user contributions
12:10<Ammler>seems very detailed and specific..
12:10<hylje>'s not a commercial project so its fairly fine
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13:01<Wolf01>hello
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13:11<ln->ciao a tutti
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13:14<Wolf01>buonasera ln- ;)
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13:24<ln->questa è una sera silenziosa.
13:24<Wolf01>that's not a sentence to say in public
13:24<Wolf01>we use it for farts
13:24<Wolf01>XD
13:25<ln->wtf?
13:25<ln->that's pervert
13:25<ln->+ed
13:25<Wolf01>ah sorry, i missed a word
13:25<Wolf01>i meant "questa era silenziosa"
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13:28<Wolf01>uhm.. you run out of patches for trunk eh? three days - two commits :/
13:29<AntB>lol
13:29<@Belugas>price of real life :(
13:29<@Belugas>all affected
13:30<Wolf01>we inaugurated our new office today :D
13:30<hylje>yay
13:31<@Belugas>happy for you :)
13:36<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i was also infected with real life...
13:37<Wolf01>i'm vaccinated ;)
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13:59<Ammler>Belugas: I like to ask you something about Action0, but now the wikki of Pikkabird isn't reachable
13:59<ln->Wolf01: c'è pollo compatibile con con pizza?
13:59<ln->-con
14:00<Ammler>but it is so, if you like to change general variables, Action0 Feature 08, you need to load the GRF before start?
14:01<Wolf01>ln- that doesn't mean anything
14:01<Ammler>(maybe someone else does know that too?)
14:02<ln->Wolf01: are you saying my italian skills are a little... not good?
14:02<Ammler>I mean this grf: http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php/Modified_Building_Costs
14:02<@Belugas>load grf before start? why? the grf will work fine, as it is already the case...
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14:03<@Belugas>it will be interpreted when you'll start a new game, for example
14:03<Ammler>but you can't load the grf on a running game
14:03<Ammler>well, you can, but it won't affect
14:03<@Belugas>that is not really wise to do...
14:04<Ammler>To rise builing costs on a running game?
14:04<ln->Wolf01: is chicken compatible with pizza?
14:05<Wolf01>so you wanted to say: "il pollo è compatibile con la pizza?"
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14:05<@Belugas>technically, i think you can, but it's been a while, i cannot be sure.
14:05<ln->hmm, yes, i thought it could require definite articles.
14:05<@Belugas>just that it is not wise to do so
14:06<Ammler>I'll try it with current trunk, maybe it has changed or I had it wrong in mind
14:08<ln->Wolf01: so is it?
14:08<Wolf01>yes
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14:12<Ammler>Belugas: yes, its same as with difficult settings
14:14<Ammler>hmm, but you can change running costs in a running game?
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14:15<@Belugas>easiest way to know: test it
14:16<skidd13>TrueBrain: are you outa there?
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14:18<Ammler>yep, I guess its a bug...
14:19<Ammler>you can't change running costs on a running game over difficulty settings
14:19<Ammler>I have runned a bus, he lost 120 in one month
14:20<Ammler>same on high and low
14:20<skidd13>TrueBrain: -> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1341 What do you think of the concept?
14:20<skidd13>good night
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14:26<@Belugas>prove me it is a bug... show me where it is written it should do so... do not mix personal wishes with system behaviour
14:26<@Belugas>or even better, give me a fix!
14:27<Hendikins>Bjarni: Loving my railway job :P
14:27<@Belugas>if i remember correctly, you cannot change difficulty settings while game has started
14:29<Ammler>Belugas: the fix would be, grey out running costs :)
14:29<Ammler>like other switches of that window
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14:30<Ammler>I know it now, but its not clear...
14:31<@Belugas>he?
14:31<Ammler>Cost of construction i.e. is "greyed" out...
14:31<@Belugas>care to expand?
14:32<Ammler>I just liked to be sure, that it is so, not that I am doing something wrong..., If you tell, its meant to be so, its fine for me.
14:33[~]Belugas will look at it tonight
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14:34<Ammler>Its possible to change it with converting to scn and load that...
14:35<Ammler>at least Phazorx told me, did not test that self.
14:36<Phazorx>it is possible to rename sav to scn and load it in enditp
14:36<Phazorx>it does maintain most things that we care about
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14:39<@Bjarni> <Hendikins> Bjarni: Loving my railway job :P <-- that's great
14:39<@Bjarni>nobody tried to kill you yet :D
14:39<hylje>:o
14:40<@Bjarni>he risk meeting passengers
14:40<@Bjarni>and with the precision of the trains these days...
14:40<Phazorx>Ammler: is fountain thing really working?
14:40<hylje>ive noticed the other day the timetable signs getting firmware upgrades
14:40<Ammler>no idea, didn't test them
14:41<Ammler>like to hold them as surprise for myself :)
14:42<Phazorx>i wonder what does it replace as it is visible in ttrs
14:42<Phazorx>cuz i cant find any
14:42<Phazorx>perhaps it is time based?
14:42<Ammler>hmm, maybe you need default houses too
14:42<@Bjarni>hylje: nice... we have some signs that looks like they don't have firmware (due to age)... those are funny when they fuck up
14:42<hylje>:D
14:42<hylje>.. pics?
14:42<@Bjarni>it's a set of prewritten signs that they can switch between
14:43<hylje>i like those flappy signs
14:43<@Bjarni>if they go out of sync they can display that the next train goes to a station and will not stop between A and B where A and B aren't on the line to the end station
14:43<hylje>flapflapflapflapflap
14:43<@Bjarni>and A and B aren't on the same line either
14:44<hylje>haha that sounds great
14:44<@Bjarni><hylje> flapflapflapflapflap <-- yeah... something like that
14:44<@Bjarni>come to think about it I think they actually updated the inside of those signs
14:44<hylje>amusing out-of-sync stuff would be "Train to A (does not sotp at A)
14:45<@Bjarni>that can't happen
14:45<@Bjarni>the destination of a train will always be the end of a line and the non-stop sign does not contain any end of line stations
14:45<hylje>well
14:46<hylje>i thought it could be like here where local-area rails may have two alternating train lines going in them
14:46<hylje>with the other stopping more often and terminating earlier oto
14:46<@Bjarni>I like this one: it said 8 minutes until next train.. the train arrived 3 minutes later and it counted down in a linear scale so it just had a multiplier on the timescale
14:46<@Bjarni>and it did that to all the trains
14:46<hylje>haha
14:47<@Bjarni>I didn't get any good explanation to why it did that though... it just did
14:47<mikl_>Bjarni: a bit too realistic, isn't it :)
14:47<hylje>i havent seen stuff fuck up
14:48<mikl_>oh, I miss Copenhagen :)
14:48<@Bjarni>I once saw that the screen put "cancelled" on the wrong train
14:48<hylje>oh wait
14:48<Sacro>i love the flapflapflap train signs
14:48<hylje>yes i have
14:48<@Bjarni>but I think that was a human input error
14:48[~]Sacro pulls some semaphore levers
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14:48<hylje>the station where i go through pretty often has a screwy local are timetable sign
14:48<hylje>it sometimes fails to update the pixels
14:49<Wolf01>i think that newindustries make the game really hard to play, there isn't the classic replacement of industries where industries were generated during gameplay.. with newindustries they close only :/ (i don't mean that the patch is bugged or doesn't work, maybe it is so, but i think that the grf sets aren't so much balanced)
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14:50<Sacro>hmmm
14:50<fjb>Moin
14:50<Sacro>can i send 2 trains together
14:50<Sacro>or will it upset the next signalbox
14:50<Wolf01>oh, and i think i found a bug, now in the map appeared an oil rig.. which should be replaced by fishing grounds
14:50<Sacro>oh grr
14:51<Sacro>raised the signal rather than switching the points
14:51<Sacro>29 levers confuse me
14:51<@Belugas>not a bug, Wolf01
14:51<fjb>Fishing grounds are labeled oil as rigs.
14:51<@Belugas>it is just a limitation
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14:51<@Belugas>Fishing Grounds are NOT labeled as Oil Rigs
14:52<@Belugas>it is the STATION that is still annoted as oil rig
14:52<@Bjarni>http://banebilleder.dk/Hundige_Hilleroed/12a-Koebenhavn%20H.JPG <-- notice the small signal with the big white thingie on it.... it's special... guess why it's there :)
14:52<@Belugas>the station that is linked to the industry
14:52<fjb>Oh, sorry, that's what I tried to say.
14:52<hylje>i have no idea
14:53<@Bjarni>ok, anybody else?
14:53<fjb>Bjarni: maybe a signal for shunting.
14:55<@Bjarni>it is, but that's not why it has that white thingie on it
14:55<@Bjarni>normally the shunting signals don't have that
14:56<Sacro>oh dear... screwed the trains up
14:56<fjb>Hm, for better visibility? You can see smething like that around some traffic lights in germany.,
14:56<fjb>something
14:57<fjb>Sacro: What happened? How many are dead? :-)
14:57<Sacro>fjb: none, damned interlocking
14:57<@Bjarni>the issue is... they placed the signal like they usually do (on the ground) and a train driver passed it while he looked into the air where he usually see regular signals so he passed it at danger, then they moved it up and a guy who were used to look for shunting signals on the ground passed it
14:58<@Bjarni>now it's in the middle and it's clearly marked
14:58<@Bjarni>for some reason the normal signals works everywhere else but not at this particular spot :P
14:58<@Bjarni>don't ask me why :P
14:58<fjb>Could be the direction of the sun.
14:59<hylje>stupid drivers
15:00<@Bjarni>somehow it's a tricky place because the next row of signals are in the air even though they can be used as shunting signals
15:01<@Bjarni>but still...
15:01<fjb>I did a bad thing and added a new tramset to a running game. Now the running costs of the trams are very high. Is there a chance to set them to a normal level?
15:02<Brianetta>http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gallery/image.asp?uabn=1787&UIN=11197&Position==2&sp=&v=8
15:02<fjb>Bjarni: Somethings just don't work. It is relly complicated how the eyes an brain interact to generate a picture.
15:02<@Bjarni>http://togfoto.dk/ytog/y3.jpg <-- err... I have a picture of the same station with the same trains placed at the same locations.... taken from the same angle
15:02<@Bjarni>the only real difference is the people
15:03<@Bjarni>I recall the station to be more or less empty when I was there
15:03<fjb>Brianetta: I would not trust that bridge. It reminds me of Indiana Junes.
15:03<hylje>i suppose the trains get there routinely
15:03<Brianetta>fjb: http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/members/images/28143/gallery/bridge_of_doom.JPG
15:03<hylje>Brianetta: awesome
15:03<@Bjarni>they had a "bridge" like that in Sweden last year
15:03<Brianetta>http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/dt/1/UTN/19531/last/1/V/8/SP/
15:04<Brianetta>That's the forum thread
15:04<@Bjarni>a train passed it and reported the track as "impossible to pass" even though it just did
15:04<@Bjarni>it was a rainy season
15:04<fjb>Brianetta: I hope she wears underwear. :-)
15:04<Brianetta>Bjarni: It happened to the Tyne and Wear Metro last week
15:04<Brianetta>A mine collapsed, leaving just track
15:04<hylje>Brianetta: :o
15:05<@Bjarni>actually it happened in Denmark this year, but not that extreme
15:05<@Bjarni>it also happened to some vintage railroad near Wales this year
15:05<@Bjarni>and some railroad in Texas
15:05<@Bjarni>all due to heavy rain
15:05<@Bjarni>hmm
15:05[~]Bjarni wonders what he just deleted with a typo
15:06<hylje>Brianetta: the people in that site are silly!
15:06<Brianetta>hylje: We certainly are.
15:06<@Bjarni>the list of directories is now shorter and I saw the animation of one of them go, but I really wonder what it was
15:07<@Bjarni>well, OpenTTD is still there so I will survive
15:08<@Bjarni>oh now I know
15:08<@Bjarni>not important
15:08<@Bjarni>in fact I never used it
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15:13<@Belugas>fjb : open up the vehicle window
15:13<@Belugas>ctrl+clik the eye
15:13<@Belugas>that's all you need to do to follow up the vehicle...
15:14<fjb>Belugas: That'S great, thank you.
15:15<fjb>Now I can delete my question in the forim.
15:15<@Belugas>don't thank me, thansk stevenh ;)
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15:16<fjb>Belugas: Ok, I have another problem with OpenTTD. I will find some thing for you.
15:17<@Bjarni>you don't have to search for stuff to take our time
15:17<@Bjarni>we are pretty good at finding stuff like that ourselves :P
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15:19<Phazorx>do TTRS fountains require some conditions for appearing?
15:19<fjb>Bjarni: I'm always eager to help. :-)
15:20<@Belugas>fjb, don't rush, take your time and don't forget to search for answers yourself on forums and google ;)
15:20<@Belugas>Phazorx, i have no idea
15:20<fjb>Is there a way to adjust the running cost of a vehicle set in a running game?
15:20<BiA|pavel-css>Belugas: can i setup somewhere that, VS will show me number of row?
15:21<@Belugas>the hell if i know what you are talking about
15:21<fjb>Belugas: I usually search for the answers first. But I misread something there.
15:21<BiA|pavel-css>Belugas i need that, Visual Studio will show me numbers of rows ...
15:22<@Belugas>what rows????
15:22<BiA|pavel-css>in code
15:22<BiA|pavel-css>line
15:22<@Belugas>ho... the number of the line you are at...
15:23<fjb>You should not center the view on a plane that curves over an airport. Where is the paper bag?
15:23<BiA|pavel-css>so ... i must click :(
15:23<@Belugas>i don't remember where it is, but i know there is a settingfor that BiA|pavel-css. search in the options, or in the gutter setting...
15:23<@Belugas>or use another editor than VS's one
15:24[~]Belugas goes back to work
15:24<BiA|pavel-css>i dont have any other ... only notepad ... but he dont understand "enter"
15:24<Maedhros>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34608 :o
15:24<Maedhros>well there's one i've never heard before...
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15:27<fjb>BiA|pavel-css: http://www.vim.org/ or http://cream.sourceforge.net/
15:30|-|mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:32<@Belugas>or notepad2 or notepad++ (googling for address)
15:32<hylje>i do gui programming in vim
15:33<fjb>8-)
15:33<Maedhros>i do all programming in vim
15:33<hylje>that too
15:33<hylje>but gui emphatised
15:33<Maedhros>and now i'm writing my thesis in it too ;)
15:33<hylje>te?
15:33<hylje>tex?
15:33<Maedhros>mmhmm
15:33<Maedhros>well, latex, strictly speaking
15:33|-|blue_ [~chatzilla@cmnz-4db300a0.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
15:34<BiA|pavel-css>oh, i should try Zend than
15:34<@Belugas>BiA|pavel-css: http://www.cs.uky.edu/~keen/115/howto/howtoshowlinenumbers.html Before asking, at least... make the effort of searching...
15:34<@Belugas>yahoo : "visual studio show line numbers"
15:34<@Belugas>fucking easy...
15:34<BiA|pavel-css>hmm, ty
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15:39<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3 : Can you repost the screenshot in english, this time, please?
15:39<Phazorx>Maedhros: got a second?
15:40<Maedhros>Phazorx: that depends on what you're about to ask me ;)
15:40<Phazorx>Maedhros: TTRS related question
15:40<Eddi|zuHause3>Belugas: i said what's on it in the text, do you really need more?
15:40<@Belugas>hem...
15:41<@Belugas>perhaps?
15:41<@Belugas>lol
15:41<Phazorx>we are trying to use it with 0 0 0 0, 1st 0 disabled default building... we have fountain replacement, which is default building, that gets disabled if ttrs is used with 1st param of 0
15:41<@Belugas>no, i guess it wold be fine
15:41<Phazorx>can something be done on grf level to make that grf still appear?
15:41<Phazorx>but w/o rest of original buildings
15:41<Maedhros>Phazorx: you mean you've replaced the fountain graphics, presumably with an action A
15:41<Maedhros>?
15:41<Phazorx>Maedhros: presumably
15:42<Maedhros>then no. just define a new building type with the fountain graphics
15:42<Eddi|zuHause3>"not enough cash"... grmbl
15:42<Phazorx>err... i might need more quidance than that
15:43<Phazorx>particualar action perhaps so i can look at spec?
15:43<Maedhros>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Houses - you'll need an action 8, at least
15:43<@Belugas>action 00, 01, 02, 03, 08
15:43<Maedhros>umm, property 8, that is
15:43<Phazorx>oh boy
15:43<@Belugas>01,02,03 if ou define your onw gfx
15:44<Phazorx>there is a sprite we want to use
15:44<@Belugas>otherwise, what Maedhros said
15:44<Maedhros>Phazorx: this way is actually easier than editing ttrs3, trust me ;)
15:44<Phazorx>i do trust you
15:44<Phazorx>i just dont do any grf work
15:44<Phazorx>so i have to pass it along to someone else :)
15:44<AntB>anybody want to tell me how to define it as a new sprite then?
15:44<AntB>already here phazor :P
15:45<Phazorx>perfect :)
15:45<Maedhros>AntB: we just did :p
15:45<Phazorx>thgergo, tune in too plz
15:45<AntB>good point...
15:45<@Belugas>why don't you take the opportunity to start doing grf? there is always a good time to start
15:45<Phazorx>Belugas: i tihnk antb just followed same line and he is already way ahead
15:46<Phazorx>and in mean time i can try to add some sanity to 30Kb of patches we have to deal with now
15:46<AntB>in all honesty, i haven't a clue about half the NFO file for my party square thing
15:46<Phazorx>Belugas: and it looks complex and interesting
15:47<thgergo>im watching
15:47<Phazorx>so i'd rather get acustomed to what it is and what it can do before actualy doing soemthing
15:47<Phazorx>thgergo: you got the gist of it i hope :)
15:47<thgergo>well, ill try to get a proper grf for it
15:49<AntB>what order do i need to put the actions in?
15:49<Maedhros>08, 00, 01, 02, 03, preferably
15:49<AntB>kk
15:49<fjb>Why does everybody make that short train stations? I have been told my 11 tiles long stations are unrealistic monster. :-(
15:49<Phazorx>can town zone be changed too ?
15:49<Maedhros>yes
15:50<Maedhros>(if you mean which town zone the fountain appears in)
15:50<Phazorx>AntB: set it to be in burbs then plz - we'll have more of it
15:50<Phazorx>and more visible :)
15:50<AntB>well we wouldn't be able to see it in the middle of sky scrapers :P
15:50<Phazorx>AntB: by defualt it will try to be in most downtown
15:51[~]AntB settles in for many hours of trying to figure out NFO code
15:51<Phazorx>ia it really that bad?
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>did i ever mention i love the new foundations?
15:52<AntB>theres not enough examples and lists on the wiki for my liking
15:52<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: I haven't heard it from you, but then again, I'm missing quite a lot of what's being said here ;)
15:53<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: Me too! And it looks like your dream about rivers may come true.
15:53<Phazorx>0..4 1,2,4,8,10 which town zone(s) the building can be built in << that should be 16 not 10 i presume ?
15:53|-|redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A06E07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: quit]
15:53<Maedhros>Phazorx: nope, that hexadecimal
15:53<Maedhros>*that's
15:54<Phazorx>so it is 16 nm then
15:54<Phazorx>1F = everywhere ?
15:54|-|peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
15:59<Phazorx>Maedhros: relevant question
15:59<Phazorx>setting ttrs 1st param to 1 and then moving date back - can it contribute to strane behavior
16:00<Maedhros>possibly, but to be honest i have no idea
16:01|-|Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä]
16:02<Phazorx>Maedhros: i'm refering to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1335
16:02<AntB>do i need to use a00 p07 or a00 p08 does anybody know?
16:02<@Rubidium>yes
16:02<AntB>which one?
16:02<@Rubidium>got no idea
16:03<Eddi|zuHause3>and once again i meet the limits of presignals...
16:03<@Rubidium>but somebody will know
16:03<Phazorx>AntB: Maedhros were mentioned A8
16:03<AntB>oy...
16:03<AntB>there isn't A8 for the property
16:04<AntB>stuff it, play/headache time :D
16:08<fjb>Why do the road / railroad crossings stop the traffic that late?
16:08<AntB>no idea but one of many pennies has just dropped with me
16:08<Maedhros>AntB: this might help: http://paste.openttd.org/263
16:08<Maedhros>it's completely untested, but it should give you something to go on
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16:10<AntB>umm... :) thats just confusing to me
16:10<dihedral>hello
16:11<AntB>hi dihe
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16:11<AntB>do i use a new psuedo sprite for each property i change?
16:12<Maedhros>you can, but you don't need to
16:12<AntB>ok
16:12<AntB>does the ID number matter? or can that be anything?
16:13<Maedhros>it can be anything, since it's local to this grf
16:14<Maedhros>it'll get translated by openttd into something it can use
16:14<AntB>phew :D sorry about all the questions btw, but I gotta start somewhere :D
16:14<Maedhros>that's fine - it took me a long time to work out how to start writing grfs :)
16:15|-|ITSBTH [~chatzilla@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:15<Maedhros>...and that was after i'd added a fair amount of newgrf support to openttd!
16:15<@Belugas>big difference between following specs and writing gfs :D
16:15<Maedhros>yeah :)
16:15<AntB>lol
16:16<AntB>at a guess, i don't need property 8 (subsitute building type)
16:16<@Belugas>wrong
16:16<@Belugas>you must
16:16<Maedhros>yeah, that's the one property you *do* need
16:17<AntB>ok :D
16:17<@Belugas>all the newhouses sytem is based on copying properties of an old house
16:17<@Belugas>so it is mandatory
16:17<@Belugas>if yu want to make it so that the "source" house will be replaced by yours, yo set prop 09 for that purpose
16:18<@Belugas>otherwise, you'll have both houses available, the copy and the source
16:18<@Belugas>and as a bonus, it is the same system with newindustries
16:18<Maedhros>although in this case ttrs3 will have already disabled the source
16:18<@Belugas>see, newgrf ARE easy!
16:18[~]dihedral waves to Belugas
16:19<@Belugas>true... was talking in general :)
16:19<AntB>thats good if i ever go for industries, and Belugas... yea...
16:20<AntB>i dont even know what i'm subsituting tbh
16:21<Maedhros>if you've got the source code, there's a landscape.html file in the docs directory - that'll tell you about the existing house ids
16:22<Maedhros>there's one on the net somewhere too, but i can't remember where atm
16:22|-||Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
16:22<@Belugas>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=DefaultHouseProps
16:22<@Belugas>there
16:24<Wolf01>http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/multiple_newspaper_item.PNG
16:24<Maedhros>thanks Belugas :)
16:24<dihedral>AntB: you could simply replace the church :-P
16:24<AntB>church is only 1 per town
16:24<dihedral>true
16:24<AntB>that much i do know :D
16:24<dihedral>if that ata ll
16:24<dihedral>theatres
16:25<Wolf01>i'm getting multiple "new vehicle" news for the same vehicles
16:27<Maedhros>are you sure there's only one vehicle type? i seem to remember one set using 3 identical maglevs - one for each cargo
16:27<ln->Bjarni: what are you going to do to ensure that your photo will be in the history books of the 2100's?
16:28<Wolf01>these are the last 2, in the list i can see only one maglev of this type and the messages were at least 5
16:29<Wolf01>at least, the first 2 might be the other 2 types, but the last 3 have the same picture
16:29<Phazorx>how's tunnel price calculated?
16:29<dihedral>uh Bjarni: i noticed that starting ./openttd -n <host> muddles up the picture...
16:29<dihedral>on a mac that is
16:31<Maedhros>Phazorx: for every tile, it costs _price.build_tunnel + (however much has accumulated already / 8)
16:32<Phazorx>Maedhros: only length
16:32<Phazorx>no efffect on height ?
16:32<Maedhros>no
16:35<fjb>Is the format of the save file documented anywhere?
16:36<+glx>in source
16:36<Maedhros>saveload.{h,cpp} may well be your best bet
16:36<dihedral>when i start ./openttd -n localhost (i am running a server locally) i get http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/bad_video_driver.png
16:37<dihedral>on a mac - as one can see
16:37<fjb>glx: Why did I know that answer? :-)
16:37<Maedhros>dihedral: what happens if you start it with -d drv=9 ?
16:38<dihedral>it works as long as i dont use -n <host>
16:39<AntB>what years do i specify for any?
16:39<dihedral>Maedhros: unknown debug level 'drv=9'
16:39<dihedral>game menu is the same
16:39<dihedral>but in game everything is fine, once connected to the server
16:40<Maedhros>AntB: 10 - 150 (decimal)
16:40<AntB>guessing that wants to be in HEX
16:41<AntB>soo 0A96?
16:41|-||Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:41<+glx>fjb: search for _chunk_handlers
16:41<Maedhros>AntB: 96 0A, actually - you have to think in little endian now ;)
16:41<AntB>oops :D
16:42<+glx>fjb: and "static const SaveLoad" for detail of chunks
16:42|-||Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
16:43<Maedhros>dihedral: try -d driver=9 instead
16:44<dihedral>only the GM_MENU is muddled in that way then
16:44<dihedral>as soon as i am connected the graphics are fine
16:45<dihedral>no errors
16:46<AntB>What values do i need to use for 3/8 pax/food acceptance?
16:46<fjb>glx: I'm already reading...
16:46<Sacro>anyone for SimSig?
16:46<AntB>i don't know how to do 8ths in hex :)
16:47<Sacro>0,2,4,6,8,A,C,E
16:47<Maedhros>you don't need to - just put 3 :)
16:47<AntB>thanks!
16:47<+glx>0D 03 0F 03
16:48<+glx>hmm wrong for 0F
16:48<AntB>lol
16:48<+glx>should be a <0 value for food :)
16:49<AntB>want food not goods :D
16:49<Maedhros>yeah, FD should do it
16:49<AntB>hmm... had an idea if i can get this done in time :P
16:51<Sacro>Bjarni: simsig?
16:52<+glx>anyway you can force cargo types with prop 1E
16:52<AntB>ok
16:52<Phazorx>are TTDp base costs different from OTTD?
16:53<Phazorx><AntB> want food not goods :D < ??
16:53<Maedhros>i doubt it
16:53<AntB>for the party square phazor. unless you want goodie bags instead of food
16:55<AntB>which number do i need to build in suburbs
16:56<Phazorx>AntB: there are no food on temperate map
16:56<+glx>you need a callback AntB
16:56<Phazorx>so your square would be requiring something we can not provide
16:56<+glx>Phazorx: you can have food in temperate now
16:56<AntB>Phazor: new industries
16:56<Phazorx>glx: we do not with the curernt industry set we are planint to use it with
16:57<Maedhros>time for me to disappear
16:57<Maedhros>good night
16:57<Phazorx>AntB: perhaps then you want to code it for all 3 climates and with a param for switching between food and goods ?
16:58|-|Maedhros [~jc@host86-136-160-233.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:58<Phazorx>once again: are TTDp base costs different from OTTD?
16:58<+glx>they shouldn't Phazorx
16:58<Phazorx>hmm.. is ration between gbp and eur 1:2 ?
16:59<Phazorx>in game i mean
16:59<+glx>yes
16:59<+glx>same goes for $
16:59<Phazorx>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=BaseCosts
16:59<DaleStan>If they are, it's probably a bug, and should be reported as such.
16:59<Phazorx>clear grass - 20
16:59<Phazorx>in reality it is 15p/30e
16:59<Phazorx>raise land - 250
17:00<Phazorx>in reality 374e
17:00<Ammler>Phazorx: you have 3 different cost levels
17:00<Phazorx>ahh
17:00<Phazorx>that would amke sense
17:00<Ammler>easy, normal, hith
17:00<Phazorx>what are the factors?
17:01<AntB>glx: will property 13 not cover it?
17:01<+glx>AntB: it should
17:01<Phazorx>Ammler: sometihng like 0.75, 1, 1.5 ?
17:02<AntB>which value do i need? the only place i don't really want it building is downtown
17:02<Ammler>Phazorx: no idea...
17:05<Ammler>Phazorx: seems more like 075,1,1.1
17:05<+glx>AntB: 1, 2, 4, 8, 10 (1=further suburb, 10=center of town)
17:05<AntB>thanks
17:05<+glx>you can add values to mix zones
17:06<AntB>so anywhere but center would be dec15?
17:06<+glx>0F yes
17:07<Phazorx>AntB: i'd suggect 7 tho :)
17:07<AntB>ok
17:07[~]AntB hasn't a clue :P
17:07<Phazorx>07 i mean
17:07<Phazorx>as for walue
17:07<Phazorx>1+2+3
17:08<Phazorx>so anywhere but downtown and city
17:08<AntB>thats 6 :P
17:08<Phazorx>that's my not typing it right
17:08<Phazorx>1+2+4
17:08<AntB>lol
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17:09<AntB>you want it to contribute to town population phazor?
17:09<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni: simsig? <-- I'm working
17:09<@Bjarni>I have a deadline tomorrow
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17:11<Phazorx>AntB: i might be translating that one too literally but eventualy yes :o)
17:11<Phazorx>not sure if delayed effect of paries is possible with grf structure :)
17:12<AntB>don't think so
17:12<Phazorx>AntB: make it same as church i think?
17:12<Phazorx>prehaps even bigger
17:12<Phazorx>church is 5
17:13<Phazorx>parties a re generaly more popular
17:13<AntB>lol
17:13<AntB>so parties +15 pop?
17:13<Phazorx>say yes
17:13<Phazorx>of cource that isnt sensation black/white
17:13<Phazorx>but at least soemthing :)
17:14<BiA|pavel-css>after 3days of nightmare i can patch and compile ottd for myself :P
17:14<Phazorx>BiA|pavel-css: with more than one patch?
17:14<BiA|pavel-css>yup
17:14<Phazorx>got mingw working?
17:14<AntB>i'd better up the pax acceptance as well
17:15<BiA|pavel-css>yeah .. BuildOTTD
17:15<@Bjarni> <dihedral> uh Bjarni: i noticed that starting ./openttd -n <host> muddles up the picture... <-- post a bug report... I don't have time for this now
17:16<dihedral>sure will :-)
17:16<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: what are you going to do to ensure that your photo will be in the history books of the 2100's? <-- I will write the books :P
17:16<BiA|pavel-css>:)
17:16<BiA|pavel-css>books like "free paper to fire" ? :P
17:17<@Bjarni>paper isn't good fuel :/
17:17<BiA|pavel-css>:D
17:17<BiA|pavel-css>but its good at starting fires ;)
17:17<@Bjarni>we have coal for at least 300 years... why not use it as it's way better?
17:17<BiA|pavel-css>because, you cant write to coal? :P
17:17<@Bjarni>sure you can
17:17<BiA|pavel-css>show me ^^
17:18<Phazorx>BiA|pavel-css: most people these days can only type
17:18<@Bjarni>whenever you get near it everything will turn black
17:18<@Bjarni>hmm
17:18<@Bjarni>that would be writing with coal, not on it...
17:18<@Bjarni>you write on stone then
17:19<Phazorx>i say we type
17:19<BiA|pavel-css>so, you will write/type with coal on paper? :o)
17:19<@Bjarni>no
17:19<BiA|pavel-css>;)
17:19<@Bjarni>I just said that paper is inefficient fuel
17:20<@Bjarni>I didn't say that I would write something to burn
17:20<Phazorx>usnig coal as part of batteries in laptops, as main ingridien of plastics, as part of capacitors and PCBs
17:20<@Bjarni>too many people do that
17:20<BiA|pavel-css>:)
17:20<@Bjarni>they are called journalists
17:20<BiA|pavel-css>soo what your books iwll be about?
17:20<@Bjarni>commercial steam train operation in the 21th century
17:21<Wolf01>'night
17:21|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host180-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:21<@Bjarni>with a followup called "prospects for commercial steam train operation in the 22th century"
17:21<BiA|pavel-css>:)
17:21<Phazorx>Bjarni: as in steam engine model
17:21<@Bjarni>not model
17:21<@Bjarni>the real stuff
17:21<Phazorx>i mean the design of steam enghine
17:22<Phazorx>steam used as working body concept
17:22<De_Ghosty>lol
17:23|-|Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:23<@Bjarni>http://www.dlm-ag.ch/index2_nonjava-en.htm <-- modern commercial steam locomotive factory
17:23<@Bjarni>they aren't very busy though
17:24<@Bjarni>but they do have clients
17:24<Phazorx>coal based?
17:24<De_Ghosty>coal is bad for enviormen
17:24<De_Ghosty>burn propane!!
17:24<Phazorx>De_Ghosty: it isnt
17:24<Phazorx>coal is perfect for environemnt
17:24<Phazorx>one of safest fuels
17:25<De_Ghosty>..
17:25<De_Ghosty>you serious?
17:25<BiA|pavel-css>well, its hard to do steam with electrical? :)
17:25<De_Ghosty>coal is full of bad stuff in it
17:25<BiA|pavel-css>yeah
17:25<De_Ghosty>sulfer and mercury
17:25<Phazorx>De_Ghosty: you get carbon dioxide and water
17:25<De_Ghosty>...
17:25<BiA|pavel-css>and earth will run out of coal soon ^^
17:25<Phazorx>when you burn coal
17:25<@Bjarni>http://www.dlm-ag.ch/gallery/english/84.htm <-- the steam powered Orient express in 2004
17:25<AntB>bury more trees :D
17:25<De_Ghosty>burning coal creat acid rain
17:25|-|prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
17:26<@Bjarni> <De_Ghosty> burning coal creat acid rain <-- filter out the sulfur to avoid serious acid issues
17:26<De_Ghosty>why you think gov is pushing for nuke plant instead of coal fire plant
17:26<AntB>then we'll have more coal come 3500 :P
17:26<Phazorx>De_Ghosty: nuke has more yeild
17:26<De_Ghosty>scrubber don't remove 100%
17:26<Phazorx>but the are not pushing fit for environment reasons i can assuere you that :)
17:26<@Bjarni><BiApavel-css> and earth will run out of coal soon ^^ <-- I just said that we have coal for at least 300 years
17:26<De_Ghosty>well i like nuke
17:26<De_Ghosty>i think it's cleaner
17:26<De_Ghosty>there is plenty of coal...
17:27<De_Ghosty>do we want to burn em?
17:27<De_Ghosty>no
17:27<Phazorx>De_Ghosty: you should go to chernobyl then
17:27<De_Ghosty>:)
17:27<De_Ghosty>i should
17:27<De_Ghosty>lol
17:27<Phazorx>for a week, till you get 3rd eye and gills
17:27<De_Ghosty>no
17:27<De_Ghosty>i'll get prostate cancer
17:27<@Bjarni>say hi to the 3 residents for me
17:27<BiA|pavel-css>nuke plant have so low efficienci
17:27<De_Ghosty>not the new one
17:27<BiA|pavel-css>fussion power ftw
17:27<ln->Bjarni: what are you going to do to ensure that your photo will be in the history books of the 2100's?
17:27<@Bjarni>I don't know if you know them. They are called alpha, beta and gamma
17:27<Phazorx>steam engine is very unefficient as well
17:28<De_Ghosty>hey the nuke plant in japan survived a magnetude 6 earthquake without leak
17:28<De_Ghosty>we have come a long way
17:28<AntB>ghost: with UK govs record, you wanna risk a nuke plant?
17:28<De_Ghosty>oh uk
17:28<Phazorx>De_Ghosty: it's usualy humans pushing wrong buttons that are most threat to environent
17:28<@Bjarni>Kashiwazaki leaked even though they claimed otherwise at first
17:28<Phazorx>not these with pencils designing stuff to withstand natural disasters
17:28<De_Ghosty>i don't trust the brits
17:28<BiA|pavel-css>nukes sux ... we should research better fussion power plants .... they already exist but we cant get from them maximum :P
17:28<De_Ghosty>they went with bush
17:28[~]AntB slaps ghost
17:28<De_Ghosty>errr
17:28<De_Ghosty>fussion is possible now
17:29<@Bjarni>yeah
17:29<De_Ghosty>but it require more energy then we can extract..
17:29<BiA|pavel-css>in gb, there is fussion power plant
17:29<BiA|pavel-css>De_Ghosty not true now
17:29<@Bjarni>they are building a bigger one in France
17:29<AntB>just so you know ghost, the so called UK democrocy isn't imo
17:29<@Bjarni>also there is a reactor in Germany
17:29<De_Ghosty>yea and it produce negative 5 million mega watt right?
17:29<BiA|pavel-css>now its about what it eat it produce ...
17:29<@Bjarni>I don't know about power output
17:30<BiA|pavel-css>fully 0 :oP
17:30<Phazorx>for these who say fussion is not possibel i reccomend looking at sun :)
17:30<BiA|pavel-css>i know, i have red it
17:30<AntB>lol @ phazor
17:30<De_Ghosty>power output for fusion is horrid right now
17:30<BiA|pavel-css>lol
17:30<Phazorx>De_Ghosty: look outside
17:30<Phazorx>that horrid output been warming up the rock for passed 4.5B eyars
17:30<BiA|pavel-css>solar is worse
17:30<De_Ghosty>pfft we can do fission since the 50's
17:31|-||Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/]
17:31<Phazorx>that's fusion not fission
17:31<De_Ghosty>we need not explosive force
17:31<BiA|pavel-css>:D
17:31<De_Ghosty>no
17:31<AntB>i say more wind and solar plants
17:31<De_Ghosty>fission bomb
17:31<De_Ghosty>..
17:31<BiA|pavel-css>solar plants ... noooo
17:31<De_Ghosty>H bomb is a fission bomb
17:31<De_Ghosty>fusion is hard to control and maintain
17:31<BiA|pavel-css>they dont produce energy in life-time to reproduce them
17:32<Ailure>heh
17:32<Ailure>talking about h-bombs
17:32<@Bjarni>btw you are talking about modern high tech nuclear plants... you should compare it with modern high tech coal power plants.... comparing modern nuclear with 40 year old coal power plants will not give a valid picture
17:32<Ailure>reminds me about alpha centauri
17:32<De_Ghosty>to generate power we need a constant and stable supply
17:32<Ailure>where the most powerful bombs
17:32<Ailure>are singularity based
17:32<AntB>i think i've got my action 00 finished :D
17:32<BiA|pavel-css>solar is only good where u cant use anything else
17:32<Ailure>while the weakest are just classic nukes
17:33<Ailure>eh
17:33<@Bjarni>modern coal powerplants are actually able to catch harmful stuff in the smoke and they can run on high efficiency
17:33<Phazorx>BiA|pavel-css: it is pretty good in space
17:33<Ailure>solar is a powerful source of energy, we just hadn't figured out a effective way of doing it
17:33<Phazorx>sopviet stations as well as modern ones run on nothing but solar power for ages
17:33<Ailure>technially, you can say that coal plants is solar energy :)
17:33<Ailure>just delayed solar energy
17:33<@Bjarni>solar is awesome in space because there is no atmosphere to block the energy
17:33<Ailure>heh
17:33<Ailure>which is why
17:33<De_Ghosty>no
17:33<BiA|pavel-css>Ailure same as fussion we just hadn't figured out a effective way of doing it
17:33<De_Ghosty>cuz uv is potent
17:34<Ailure>there's been proposals to catch solar energy in space
17:34<AntB>going to sim city: microwave plants!
17:34<Ailure>and then send it down as microwave energy
17:34<BiA|pavel-css>XD
17:34<De_Ghosty>out atmosphere eat alot of uv
17:34<Ailure>yeah
17:34<De_Ghosty>our*
17:34<Phazorx>Bjarni: we traveled quite a bit from subject
17:34<@Bjarni>yeah
17:34<AntB>just hope the satalite doesn't miss
17:34<@Bjarni>you guys goes off topic
17:34<BiA|pavel-css>it will smash everything on earth :P
17:34<De_Ghosty>not everything
17:34<Ailure>eh
17:34<De_Ghosty>just who ever is around it ll
17:34<Phazorx>but about steam engines - steam as body for energy storage was deemed as very inefficient on concepotual elvel
17:34<BiA|pavel-css>:))
17:34<Phazorx>long time ago
17:34<Ailure>it will more likely warm up other stuff slightly
17:34<Ailure>then shut off
17:34<Ailure>it won't be like the simcity 2000 disaster
17:34<De_Ghosty>steam stor energy?
17:34<De_Ghosty>that's like...
17:35<BiA|pavel-css>better to try to transport energy from plant via microwaves :D
17:35<Ailure>Simcity 2000 did have a disaster related to it heh
17:35<De_Ghosty>a pressureized can
17:35<Ailure>rather boring one though
17:35<Ailure>just a random stream of fire
17:35<Ailure>next to the microwave plant
17:35<De_Ghosty>what we really need is some awsome new breakthrough
17:36<Ailure>well
17:36<@Bjarni>so the Americans wants to put up energy collectors in space and beam the energy down to Earth in order to prevent global warming.... prevent a warmup by adding external energy...
17:36<Ailure>talking about power plants
17:36<Ailure>I thought on implementing nuclear energy chain for TTD
17:36<BiA|pavel-css>OT (:D) hahah i rly know now, i compiled another ottd patched ;)
17:36<AntB>personally i think microwave is a bad idea
17:36<BiA|pavel-css>it is :)
17:36<De_Ghosty>i donno
17:36<De_Ghosty>microwave is kinda..
17:36<AntB>look at the one in your kitchen
17:36<De_Ghosty>untested
17:37<AntB>now shove the world in there
17:37<@Bjarni>we don't know what will happen to living tissue
17:37<BiA|pavel-css>:D
17:37<@Bjarni>in the long run
17:37<De_Ghosty>microwave is safe...
17:37<BiA|pavel-css>lol!
17:37<Ailure>eh
17:37<De_Ghosty>but we never try bridging it over such a long distance
17:37<Ailure>microwave is not the only way to transport energy down to earth
17:37<AntB>look at how muck metal is in the world :P
17:37<@Bjarni><De_Ghosty> microwave is safe... <-- if you are properly shielded, then yes
17:37<Ailure>it's just one of th eproposed ways
17:37<AntB>*much
17:37<De_Ghosty>no
17:37<De_Ghosty>mircrowave just heat molecure
17:37<De_Ghosty>molecues
17:37<De_Ghosty>it doesn't cause mutation
17:37<@Bjarni>ok, then microwave isn't safe if you are properly shielded
17:37<De_Ghosty>u'd just get a burn
17:38<BiA|pavel-css>i think if they will make microwaves ... i will move to other planet ^^
17:38<De_Ghosty>if you move
17:38<AntB>use solar panels in space to charge massive battries and bring them down to earth every 5 years taking the old ones back up :P
17:38<De_Ghosty>you don't get openttd
17:38<@Bjarni>he will
17:38<De_Ghosty>batteries?
17:38<Ailure>I dunno
17:38<@Bjarni>because I will move too
17:38<BiA|pavel-css>:)
17:38<De_Ghosty>batteries are so inefficent
17:38<Ailure>we are bombarded by natural mcirowave radiation
17:38<Ailure>just in small quantiaties
17:38<BiA|pavel-css>same as solar
17:38<AntB>ghost: at least they kinda safe :D
17:39<BiA|pavel-css>:D
17:39<De_Ghosty>hey if you can store that much energy in a place
17:39<De_Ghosty>it might explode
17:39<De_Ghosty>lol
17:39<Ailure>actually
17:39<BiA|pavel-css>water plants .... hover sams or how its called is cool
17:39<Ailure>on other planets
17:39<BiA|pavel-css>*dam
17:39<De_Ghosty>risk is poportional to energy density
17:39<Ailure>the radiation is easily higher
17:39<Ailure>especially solar radiation
17:39<AntB>hydro plants! build a load of them :D
17:39<@Bjarni><De_Ghosty> batteries? <-- no, I will build coal powered steam engines to start an industrial revolution on the planet so we can have all the luxury goods we want to
17:39<BiA|pavel-css>:)
17:39<Ailure>due to the lack of atmopshere
17:39<De_Ghosty>dam is bad for enviormen
17:39<BiA|pavel-css>lies :D
17:39<De_Ghosty>it require flooding of alot of land
17:39<Ailure>haha
17:40<De_Ghosty>to build up require pressure
17:40<Ailure>talking about coal powered engines and insutrial revolution
17:40<@Bjarni>so?
17:40<Ailure>it honestly reminds me about my simearth games
17:40<BiA|pavel-css>so wind plants ;)
17:40<Ailure>where I make a polluting civilization as possible on mars
17:40<AntB>already said BiA :P
17:40<Ailure>to warm up a otherwise cool planet
17:40<@Bjarni>wind plants works better if the air pressure is really high. If it's close to 0....
17:40<BiA|pavel-css>with this global warming ... more hurricanes ... more wind to wind plant s:P
17:41<AntB>some wind plants shut off if they start spinning too fast
17:41<Ailure>yeah
17:41<De_Ghosty>no
17:41<Ailure>wind plants aren't too effecgtive on mars
17:41<De_Ghosty>wind is awsome now
17:41<BiA|pavel-css>:D
17:41<AntB>prevents damage apparently
17:41<BiA|pavel-css>i dont know how much wind is on mars
17:41<Ailure>mars is windy but apparenlty the air pressure is lower too
17:41<BiA|pavel-css>but jupiter!! theres alot of wint
17:41<BiA|pavel-css>*d
17:42<BiA|pavel-css>or we could get energy somehow from black holes :P
17:42<Ailure>you can
17:42<Ailure>there's actually theories on how
17:42<BiA|pavel-css>if it will not eat me :D
17:42<Ailure>but don't expect that to happen
17:42<Ailure>in near future
17:42<BiA|pavel-css>:o)
17:43<@Bjarni><AntB> some wind plants shut off if they start spinning too fast <-- actually they will not spin too fast. The rotors will spin at a constant speed (like 19-22 RPM). They will stick to this speed even if the wind speed increases and if the wind is too strong, then they disconnect the generator electrically (not mechanically) and applies mechanical brakes to completely prevent it from moving
17:43<BiA|pavel-css>age of ice will be here in couple of years and after that ... ppl will start stuing space more ;)
17:43<@Bjarni>it would break if it were just left to spin on it's own
17:46<De_Ghosty>no the new wind turbins have auto break
17:46<De_Ghosty>they won't damange that easily
17:47<@Bjarni>well... they do stop automatically
17:48<BiA|pavel-css>if u press stop buttom :P
17:48<De_Ghosty>they don't stop
17:48<De_Ghosty>there is a magenet break or something
17:48<@Bjarni>also they have the ability to turn the rotors so they aren't in direct line of the wind and then they will not absorb as much energy
17:48<De_Ghosty>just slows it
17:48<@Bjarni>they stop during extreme conditions
17:48<De_Ghosty>welll
17:48<De_Ghosty>maybe for a hurrican
17:49<@Bjarni>I'm not talking about a regular storm, but really extreme conditions
17:49<BiA|pavel-css>:D
17:49<De_Ghosty>like what..
17:49<BiA|pavel-css>asteriod crash on earth?
17:49<BiA|pavel-css>*on wind plant
17:49<BiA|pavel-css>:)
17:49<Eddi|zuHause3><BiA|pavel-css> well, its hard to do steam with electrical? :) <-- why? steam is just hot water... http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselc.htm
17:50<BiA|pavel-css>hehe
17:50<BiA|pavel-css>soo, u will pick with u a tank with water to run it :o)
17:50<Eddi|zuHause3>all steam engines carry a water tank
17:52<De_Ghosty>what?
17:52<De_Ghosty>you guys making no sense lol
17:52<BiA|pavel-css>:D
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>the concept is really simple...
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>fire+water = steam
17:53<AntB>fire = pyromanic on the loose!
17:53<@Bjarni>no
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>do not confuse steam with smoke
17:53<@Bjarni>you do it in a controlled environment
17:53<@Bjarni>this is called a firebox
17:54<AntB>lol
17:54<@Bjarni>there is a sideeffect on steam locomotives... the human body is not built to have 1200 °C flames in front of it and a -20°C wind on the back
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>in germany you say "Vorne schwitzt man, und hinten klappert man mit den Zähnen."
17:56<AntB>somebody want to help with with Action 2?
17:56<@Bjarni>notice the temperature of the flames... incinerators usually works with only 1000°C
17:56<@Bjarni>AntB: pick a female nick and go to a random channel and ask the very same question
17:56<@Bjarni>could be fun :)
17:56<AntB>lol
17:57<Eddi|zuHause3>preferably #lesbians ;)
17:57<@Bjarni>yeah
17:57<@Bjarni>you will be overrun by guys right away
17:57<Eddi|zuHause3>but don't tell Sacro
17:57<AntB>not a situation i want to end up in Bjani
17:57<Sacro>don't tell Sacro what?
17:57<@Bjarni>Sacro: #lesbians
17:58<Sacro>just me :(
17:58<@Bjarni>LOL
17:58<@TrueBrain>I feel like giving some kicks...
17:58[~]AntB hides
17:58<Eddi|zuHause3>i beg you ;)
17:58<@TrueBrain>@kick Eddi|zuHause3 your request, my command
17:58|-|Eddi|zuHause3 kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [your request, my command]
17:58|-|Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77A68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:58<@TrueBrain>too easy
17:58|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [just carrying out the will of TrueBrain ]
17:58<@TrueBrain>@kick Bjarni so you have to go too
17:58|-|Bjarni kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [so you have to go too]
17:58|-|Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a03.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
17:58|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
17:58<De_Ghosty>lol
17:59<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i can come up with a better one ;)
17:59<@Bjarni>hmm
17:59<De_Ghosty>sooooo eddi is a sm guy huh
17:59<De_Ghosty>lol
17:59<@Bjarni>that backfired :(
17:59<@TrueBrain>dah
17:59<@TrueBrain>night!
17:59<@Bjarni>night TrueBrain
17:59<@Bjarni>Sacro: it's ok to come back now
18:00<Eddi|zuHause3>ah, right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUvZj_36HRU :p
18:00<@Bjarni>well we can always go to #lesbians to pick him up
18:00<@Bjarni>err
18:00<De_Ghosty>lol
18:00<@Bjarni>to get him back
18:00<De_Ghosty>LOL
18:00<AntB>Bjarni: thats just wrong!
18:00<De_Ghosty>remove the to
18:00<De_Ghosty>it's even funnier
18:00<BiA|pavel-css>YouTube link == Ban?
18:01<@Bjarni>yeah
18:01<@Bjarni>I banned that rule
18:01<BiA|pavel-css>:D
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, but apparently i'm too late :p
18:01<@Bjarni>huh
18:01<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3 posted a link to a lesbian movie of furry pussies o_O
18:02|-|KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-139-133.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:02<AntB>back to my question (now rephrased because of dirty minded individuals): Will somebody help me with GRF Action02?
18:03<@Bjarni>no
18:03<BiA|pavel-css>whats taht :o)
18:03[~]AntB bands his head on the nearest wall
18:03<AntB>*bangs
18:03<BiA|pavel-css>:D
18:04<@Bjarni>wow
18:04<@Bjarni>AntB just said that he bangs right now
18:04<@Bjarni>is it with right or left?
18:04[~]AntB slaps Bjarni
18:04<@Bjarni>but I'm not into SM :(
18:04<@Bjarni>or you
18:05<BiA|pavel-css>am i missiong sth?
18:05<@Bjarni>?
18:05<AntB>just bjarnis dirty mind
18:05<BiA|pavel-css>what the hell u r talking about :D
18:06<@Bjarni>are you claiming that I have a dirty mind?
18:06<AntB>yes
18:06<BiA|pavel-css>no, hes an admin :D
18:06[~]Bjarni goes to wash his head
18:06<BiA|pavel-css>:D
18:06<AntB>i /would/ claim that you have the dirtiest mind i know, but you haven't met the people i work with at the pub
18:06<BiA|pavel-css>how can u wash ur mind? :o)
18:07<AntB>BiA: sponge in one ear and out the other
18:07<@Bjarni>I could always try those mindwash people, but I don't think I would like that
18:08[~]AntB goes back to the wiki in an attempt to save some of his sanity
18:08<@Bjarni>sometimes I wonder... if you get amnesia then you can play your games all over again and it will be like the first time
18:08<@Bjarni>AntB: too late
18:08<BiA|pavel-css>yeah m8
18:08<AntB>true :P
18:09<@Bjarni>what has M8 to do with this???
18:09<BiA|pavel-css>tbh ... gn :)
18:09|-|BiA|pavel-css [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit []
18:13<fjb>Will a company using almost only planes right from the start of the game always be the richest with the highest score? Or is there any other concept to stand up against it?
18:13<Phazorx>fjb: that cncept will fail in #wwottdgd game for sure
18:13[~]AntB needs help with Action02
18:14<Phazorx>and in most #openttdcoop games it will gaill to because of airmod we use now
18:15|-|TinoM [~Tino@i5387C9C9.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:15<fjb>What mod is that? And will it fail in a plain nightly build, too?
18:17<De_Ghosty>aircraft make most money
18:17|-|Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-23-120.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )]
18:17<De_Ghosty>but not much cargo delivary
18:17<MarkSlap>7326 crates of goods \o/
18:18<MarkSlap>From a single sawmill
18:19<fjb>Does much cargo delivery count more for the game score?
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18:19<De_Ghosty>no
18:20<De_Ghosty>i think money count most
18:20<fjb>The most limiting factor for planes seam to be the small airports that you have in the early years of the game.
18:20<De_Ghosty>yup
18:20<De_Ghosty>planes are rigger
18:21[~]AntB pokes anyone with any knowledge of GRF Action02
18:21[~]fjb pokes back
18:21<AntB>knew that'd work :P
18:21<fjb>:-)
18:23<AntB>which num-ents do i need for a party square thing?
18:23<fjb>Hm, maybe something like passenger (or also freight) destinations would help to balance the game. The passengers would not take a plane if there is no other vehicle that catches them up after landing to move them further to their destination.
18:24<fjb>Party? Where? :-)
18:24<AntB>in my GRF when i figure Action2 out :P
18:25|-|Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-109-253.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: hoogaboogah!]
18:26<fjb>How is that action dressed? :-)
18:27<Phazorx>AntB: num-ents?
18:27<AntB>phazor:http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action2
18:27<AntB>fjb: wha?
18:28<AntB>so far i've got 02 07 02
18:29<fjb>AntB: Don'T mind. :-)
18:29<AntB>make that last 02, 01
18:30|-|Progman [~progman@p57A1E52D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:32<AntB>:(
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18:36[~]AntB just fills in 00 for the missing bits in action 2
18:36<AntB>now for action 3
18:37[~]AntB does the same again for action 3 :(
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18:43[~]fjb can't help AntB.
18:43[~]AntB noticed
18:43<Phazorx>AntB: having fun yet ?
18:44<AntB>Well i'm testing the GRF now
18:44<AntB>hopefully, 02 and 03 aren't that importent :D
18:45<Digitalfox>Anyone have crashes with firefox 2.0.0.8 and java sites like this one ( it's just a portuguese home page for a mod of emule ) http://koizo.sourceforge.net/
18:45<Digitalfox>I can't acess any java site without crashes
18:46<AntB>Java has been a bit dodgy...
18:46<AntB>(in FF
18:46<AntB>)
18:47<Digitalfox>AntB: Yeah, but it sucks, since it kills all my firefox windows, and even chatzilla :(
18:47<Digitalfox>It stops responding
18:47<AntB>javas dead :(
18:48<Digitalfox>well, maybe, but still there are a lot of sites that use it..
18:48|-|AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.68.60] has quit [Quit: *poof!* I am gone -=- Using ChatZilla]
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18:51<Digitalfox>well i just updated to the last 1.6.0 b3, i'm hoping it will help or it will just crash again..
18:52<AntB>I dont use java sites unless i can help it anyway
18:52<AntB>the only time i really come across java is that annoying water effect >:(
18:54|-|Progman [~progman@p57A1E52D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:55<Digitalfox>And it crashes.. Damn why can't there be just one or two programming languages for creating sites that are easy to work with and easy to deal with...........
18:55|-|Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-179-132.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye]
19:00<AntB>lol, you wanna start counting languages for sites? :P
19:00<AntB>o hes goen
19:00<AntB>meh
19:12|-|Osai [~Osai@pD9EB56B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai]
19:13[~]fjb hates Flash!
19:16|-|thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7A1BA.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:23[~]AntB thinks fjb should keep clear of http://kongregate.com?referrer=AntB then (shameless plug)
19:24<fjb>Strange, when I load the Dutchtrams grf right after creating an new game the trams have a much highter running cost then when I load that grf before creating a new game.
19:24<AntB>inflation?
19:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11341 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h): -Codechange: add missing callback ID enums, add stub for house property 20 and reorder unimplemented action 0 properties
19:26<fjb>AntB: what is konkregate?
19:26<AntB>flash games :D
19:26<fjb>Inflation? I don't think so. I never unpaused the game after creating it.
19:26[~]fjb doesn't have a flash player. :-)
19:27<AntB>lol
19:31<fjb>Adobe, in it's endless wisdom, has choosen not to support my computer.
19:32<De_Ghosty>which is?
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19:33|-|elmex_ [~elmex@e180067177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:33<fjb>FreeBSD as OS.
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19:39<fjb>Why do people have to chaet in a game like this that is more than easy to play with the default settings?
19:39<AntB>because its fun D:
19:39<AntB>:D even
19:39<+glx>because they can
19:42<fjb>Why don't they just watch the AI? That is even more easier then playing them selfes.
19:42|-|G [~njones@202-154-149-20.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:43<@Belugas>because cheating allows for easier debugging
19:44<+glx>no need to cheat for money when debugging ;)
19:44<+glx>there's a shortcut
19:44<fjb>It's ok for debugging. I see the sense in that. But many people seam to use it in ordinary game play.
19:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: egladil * r11342 /trunk/src/ (os/macosx/splash.cpp video/cocoa_v.mm):
19:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: [OSX] The cocoa driver incorrectly assumed that the blitter always was
19:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: 8bpp. Now both 8bpp and 32bpp blitters can be used. The driver will check the
19:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: blitter screen depth. In fullscreen it will select a proper video mode for this
19:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: depth, and in windowed mode it will simply skip doing fake 8bpp.
19:45[~]AntB pokes glx
19:46<+glx>why AntB?
19:46<AntB>Do you know anything about Action02?
19:46[~]fjb hides from AntB.
19:47<+glx>be more specific, action 2 can be used for a lot of things
19:47<AntB>Using it for a "house" which accepts pax and food and produces pax
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19:48<@Belugas>[19:46] <+glx> no need to cheat for money when debugging ;) <--- shortcut? i was not aware...
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19:49<+glx>AntB: did you read http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action2HousesIndustryTiles ?
19:50[~]AntB was reading the wrong page
19:50<AntB>i was looking at houses
19:50|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:50<+glx>you were looking VarAction2Houses ?
19:51<AntB>yup
19:51<+glx>that is mostly used for callbacks
19:51<AntB>that explains it then :)
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19:54<Phazorx>glx: things that affect base values of things, in case of loaded scn should reinitialize?
19:55|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-193-46-fixip.tiscali.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:55<+glx>hmm?
19:56<@Belugas>Phazorx, a scenario brings his own values at start
19:56<@Belugas>savegame just continues where it left
19:56<@Belugas>or...
19:56<@Belugas>i don't get our question
19:56<Phazorx>Belugas: how about scn convertted from a save with grfs that modify these costs ?
19:56|-|G [~njones@202-154-149-20.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd
19:56<+glx>it will use modified costs I think
19:57<Phazorx>and what do i do itf it does not?
19:57[~]Belugas does not know
19:57[~]Belugas thinks Phazorx should look for it himself and find out why
19:58<Phazorx>Belugas: i have no clue
19:58<+glx>me neither
19:58<Phazorx>but i can provide -d 9 log of loaded save
19:58<Phazorx>loaded scn
19:58<Phazorx>and gthe scn itself
19:58<Ammller>Belugas: its the thing I have mentioned this evening already
19:58<Phazorx>along with most crucial grfs
19:59<Phazorx>Ammller: but i am sure i seen it work today once
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19:59[~]Phazorx is going to convert savs to scns few times now
20:00<@Belugas>guys, do you think that we have nothing to do? do you thing we are only there to do all the stuff you cannot do?
20:00<@Belugas>please...
20:00<@Belugas>you can work out things by yourselves too...
20:00<@Belugas>look at AntB who is doing grf!
20:00<Phazorx>if they behave like they are suppsoed to - yes
20:00<AntB>i've been trying to
20:00<Phazorx>if you tell me it should do one thing and does the other
20:01<Phazorx>it gets rather comlicated to work it out
20:01<Phazorx>without knowing how it worksd
20:01<@Belugas>same in here...
20:01<+glx>we don't know all the code
20:04<@Belugas>nor all the expected behaviours
20:05<@Belugas>Phazorx, i would do the same think as you would do, i.e.: put a tracer in the code and follow the process. if ever you do that, of course
20:05<@Belugas>boring process...
20:05<@Belugas>right now, i'm coding, you know, for the fun of it
20:05<AntB>bug catchers :D
20:05<@Belugas>been a while i have not done it
20:10<@Belugas>lol
20:11<@Belugas>i don't even remember how to had a setting :P
20:11<Ammller>:
20:11<Ammller>)
20:14<fjb>Godd night.
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20:18<Phazorx>Belugas: not sure how to fix it but i know how to hack it
20:18<@Belugas>that's already a start.
20:18<Phazorx>changing dificulty params resets things so grfed values are applied
20:18<@Belugas>can i look at ot?
20:18<Phazorx>not sure if it will be carried after saving tho
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20:18<Phazorx>Belugas: the scn?
20:19<Phazorx>i can suggest just taking ammler's mode adding it to scn
20:19<Phazorx>and trying to play with it
20:19[~]Belugas tough you Phazorx had a patch to show
20:20<Phazorx>you dont want to go there
20:20<Phazorx>it is not reallt a patch thing anyway
20:20<Phazorx>since same behavior is observed in trunk
20:21<Ammller>Phazorx: but you still need to reload the game?
20:21<Phazorx>huh?
20:21<Phazorx>Ammller: set by step, i got the effect of grf in the save
20:21<Phazorx>it works to that level
20:21<Phazorx>which is nice
20:22<Phazorx>aside of that i spend 60M instead of 10 on water and 64k instead of 512 on land :)
20:23<Phazorx>and yes after resaving the effect is maintained
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20:24<Phazorx>so my sanity is back to standart level just slightly above missing :)
20:24|-|Frostregen_ changed nick to Frostregen
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21:18<Ouranogrammi>hello people
21:19<Ouranogrammi>i am running a openttd internet server and i am trying to force it to pause if nobody is currently logged in
21:19<Ouranogrammi>i set min_players to 1 or 2
21:19<Ouranogrammi>but nothing seems to happent :(
21:19<Ouranogrammi>any idea?
21:21<+glx>should work
21:21<Ouranogrammi>its like my configure-patches menu settings never get saved in openttd.cfg
21:21<Ouranogrammi>but thanks for info glx
21:21<+glx>you changed it in running game?
21:21<Ouranogrammi>yes
21:22<+glx>that's why
21:22<Ouranogrammi>i should edit openttd.cfg?
21:22<Ouranogrammi>because no configure-patches-menu option is about min-players
21:23<+glx>yes but edit it when openttd is not running
21:23<+glx>else it will be overwritten
21:24<Ouranogrammi>when i set options in configure-patches-menu in main menu (before any single or multiplayer game is running)
21:24<Ouranogrammi>is those settings permanent?
21:24<Ouranogrammi>or i should edit openttd.cfg?
21:24<Ouranogrammi>s/is/are
21:24<+glx>if you set it before starting a game they will be in openttd.cfg
21:25<Ouranogrammi>thanks i'll go and try it out
21:26<Ouranogrammi>when i start a non dedicated server and let my company bankrupt
21:26<Ouranogrammi>can i start another company from the server?
21:27<+glx>you need to start another openttd
21:27<Ouranogrammi>when company bankrupts
21:27<+glx>and let the first one running
21:27<Ouranogrammi>u are just a game admin
21:27<Ouranogrammi>right?
21:27<+glx>a dev
21:27<Ouranogrammi>does your admin-client counts for player?
21:28<Ouranogrammi>in min-player setting i mean
21:28<Ouranogrammi>should i set min-players to 2? (the admin-client and one player that should be playing)
21:28<+glx>server is a client
21:28<Ouranogrammi>so min_players should be set to 2?
21:28<+glx>a client is not a player
21:29<Ouranogrammi>ok i'll try one :)
21:29<Phazorx>lol
21:29<Phazorx>interesting conversation
21:29<Ouranogrammi>let the newb become expert :P
21:30<Ouranogrammi>the most impressive fact about the game
21:30<Ouranogrammi>is that any window is a full functional game-viewport
21:30|-|egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30<Ouranogrammi>and this feature was present in the first tt (required 386 /4mb ram)
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21:31<Ouranogrammi>masterpiece of software :)
21:31|-|Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77C5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
21:32<Phazorx>that puts many other application and some OSes to shame for sure
21:33<Ouranogrammi>i bought the original tt CD rom with theme park
21:33<Ouranogrammi>and the floppy disk "world editor"
21:33<Ouranogrammi>2 years of happy gaming
21:33<Ouranogrammi>on my 486
21:33<Rafagd>i bought original tt with a 6 games box
21:33<Rafagd>=]
21:34<Ouranogrammi>after that i upgraded my ram to 8mb and i had some years of gaming with Warcraft2
21:34<Ouranogrammi>tt is more of "relaxing" game, like RPG, its not about maximizing your profit
21:34<Ouranogrammi>is about watching towns groing, making beautiful intersections etc
21:35<Ouranogrammi>you shout respect your multiplayer opponents and help them to build by not blocking
21:35<Phazorx>heh it also has a unique multiplayer model
21:35<Ouranogrammi>the excact opposite of age of empires 2
21:35<Ouranogrammi>playing like maniac
21:35<Ouranogrammi>trying to wipe your opponent
21:35<Phazorx>and yay it works
21:36<Ouranogrammi>AOE2 requires all players to be present
21:36<Ouranogrammi>game is lost if someone gets DC etc
21:36<Ouranogrammi>the good thing about openttd multiplayer is that anyone can join when he has free time
21:36<Ouranogrammi>like online RPGS
21:36<Phazorx>and with introduction of #wwottdgd ottd goes MMO :)
21:37<Ouranogrammi>after 3 years of lineage
21:37<Ouranogrammi>no real life etc
21:37<Ouranogrammi>no more mmorpg for me :P
21:37|-|Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77A68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:38<Phazorx>it isnt an rpg really
21:38<Phazorx>but getting to MMO level in terms of scale
21:38<Ouranogrammi>coordination and team gaming was well repaid
21:38<Phazorx>are you playing competatively with teams?
21:38<Ouranogrammi>an archer group with a healer and a buffer/sws/bd could wipe anything
21:39<Ouranogrammi>i am talking about Lineage
21:39<Ouranogrammi>[04:37] <Phazorx> it isnt an rpg really <- u ment openttd?
21:39<Phazorx>Ouranogrammi: yes :)
21:39<Ouranogrammi>oh!
21:39<Phazorx>and MMO comment was about ottd as well :)
21:39<Ouranogrammi>sure its not an rpg
21:39<Ouranogrammi>but it has and RPG feeling
21:39<Ouranogrammi>when u play and RPG
21:40<Ouranogrammi>you want to "live" its world
21:40<Phazorx>well you can add RP elements to it for sure
21:40<Ouranogrammi>u don't care just to max ur starts and finish it
21:40<Ouranogrammi>i am a math/game maniac i try to get max out of everything
21:40<Ouranogrammi>but openttd makes you relax
21:40<Ouranogrammi>u live its world
21:41<Phazorx>very true
21:41<Phazorx>however i'd say relaxing moment is when the plan works and everything is efficient and smooth
21:41<Ouranogrammi>and you can have a great multiplayer experience without spending a day playing
21:43<Phazorx>well comes to think of it you might miss a lot in a day :)
21:44<Phazorx>especialy if that day would be this saturday
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21:49<Ouranogrammi>xmm
21:49<Ouranogrammi>edited openttd.conf
21:49<Ouranogrammi>min_players set to 2
21:49<Ouranogrammi>started server
21:50<Phazorx>.cfg you mean?
21:50<Ouranogrammi>min_players at console report 2
21:50<Ouranogrammi>cfg right
21:50<Phazorx>and are you sure that is the active .cfg?
21:50<Ouranogrammi>if it is not, how i am getting min_players = 2 when the game starts :)
21:50<Ouranogrammi>default is 0
21:51<Ouranogrammi>so its the right one
21:51<Ouranogrammi>but it doesn't autopause :(
21:51<Phazorx>well we normally use autopilot for things like that so i amnot even sure how it is supposed to work
21:51<Ouranogrammi>autopilot Oo
21:51<Ouranogrammi>init script?
21:52<+glx>Ouranogrammi: it is for dedicated servers only IIRC
21:52<+glx>let me check the source
21:52<Ouranogrammi>want my IP and rcon to try?
21:53<Phazorx>glx: i run it on windows box ocasioanly when i test sometihng
21:53<Phazorx>works fine
21:53<Ouranogrammi>i use ubuntu 7.10 for dedicated server
21:53<Ouranogrammi>and XP pro for client
21:53<Phazorx>Ouranogrammi: if you run a server then it is no problem
21:53<+glx>Phazorx: I was talking about min_players :)
21:53<Ouranogrammi>my XP machine has my fav monitor and playbacks midi properly
21:53<Ouranogrammi>ubuntu does not :(
21:54<+glx>I know autopilot works on windows, I helped to make it work ;)
21:54<Phazorx>glx: ahh yeah...
21:54<+glx>void CheckMinPlayers()
21:54<+glx>{
21:54<+glx> if (!_network_dedicated) return;
21:54<+glx>...
21:54<Phazorx>surprised to learn some peolpe still listen to the midis there
21:54<+glx>yes dedicated only
21:55<Ouranogrammi>OMG
21:55<Ouranogrammi>it was so damn simple :S
21:55<Ouranogrammi>thanks :)
21:55<+glx>you can start dedicated server on windows too
21:55<Ouranogrammi>let my try!
21:56<Phazorx>wee... i can move the players too
21:57<Ouranogrammi>move the players?
21:58<Phazorx>Ouranogrammi: i'm testing a very patched version of a server, and surprized it works as expected :)
21:58<Ouranogrammi>is there any "god" mode
21:58<Phazorx>heh
21:58<Phazorx>there are cehats
21:58<Phazorx>in SP
21:58<Phazorx>as i recently learned :)
21:58<Ouranogrammi>for admins to remove obstacles or tiles of malign players?
21:58|-|BigBB [~BigBB@p5B042AF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:59<Ouranogrammi>or just kick/ban?
21:59<Phazorx>well admins can kick/ban in basic openttd
21:59<Phazorx>the server i am talking has special functionality that allows admins to move players between teams
21:59|-|BigBB [~BigBB@p5B042AF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
21:59<Phazorx>actualy between spectators and teams mostly
22:00<Ouranogrammi>:) hope someday that will be a standard function in stable openttd
22:00<Phazorx>and it's a no on removing obstacles
22:00[~]Ouranogrammi luvs 2D isometric 256color games
22:00<Ouranogrammi>Age of empires, Sim, openttd
22:00<Phazorx>Ouranogrammi: it's actualy can be 32bpp now
22:00<Ouranogrammi>no!!! we need palette looping!!!!
22:00<Ouranogrammi>:)
22:00<Phazorx>that's emulated too so animations work
22:01<+glx>animation still works yes
22:01<Phazorx>but i play in 8bpp mode tho
22:01<Phazorx>32 is too taxing sometimes
22:01[~]Ouranogrammi was doing lava lamps in DOS with basic/pascal but never managed palette looping in windows :(
22:01<Ouranogrammi>if there is a 8bpp full compatible client 32bit is great
22:02<Ouranogrammi>the good thing about those games (openttd, age of empires) is that anyone can play in network game nomatter how old his PC is
22:02<Phazorx>glx: i have a mingw made binary with athlon optimization cflags, is that still normally usable to say celeron users?
22:02<Phazorx>well that actualy does change
22:02<+glx>not sure
22:02<Phazorx>i played some games that required 3G +
22:02<+glx>celeron is not athlon
22:02<Phazorx>glx: i know
22:02<+glx>but you can try
22:03<Phazorx>well i dont have a celeron so no i can not
22:04<Ouranogrammi>is there anyway i can scroll up to see console output?
22:04<Phazorx>shift + arrow
22:04<Ouranogrammi>:)
22:04<Phazorx>shift + pgup/pgdn
22:04<Ouranogrammi>rcon is very convinient
22:05<Phazorx>i kinda like console more but rcon is handy too
22:05<Ouranogrammi>does dedicated server autosaves?
22:05<Phazorx>if you set it to
22:05<Ouranogrammi>default setting is on i think
22:07<Phazorx>glx: are you gona participate in wwottdgd thingy?
22:07<+glx>no
22:07<Phazorx>:(
22:14<Ouranogrammi>ALL WORK GREAT!
22:15[~]Ouranogrammi thanks all :)
22:20<Phazorx>congratulations :)
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22:51<Tefad>hey guys, why does selecting a playlist in the music options section cause a segfault?
22:55<Phazorx>probably have not beed tested for a while
22:55<Tefad>it segfault for you too?
22:55<Phazorx>Osai was reporting some issues with midi on OSX
22:55<Tefad>i'm on linux
22:55<Phazorx>no, i start with -s null -m null :)
22:56<Tefad>i gave a halfassed attempt at getting music working the other day
22:56<Tefad>i've got timidity already installed on this box
22:56<Tefad>and i set the option in config for timidity
22:56<Tefad>it just doesn't want to work or whatever
22:56[~]Tefad shrugs
22:57<Phazorx>i doubt i can help there, i'm on windows atm, and probably have never heard any music from OTTD
22:57<Tefad>ok doke
23:09<Ouranogrammi>ubuntu openttd client keeps changine music tracks without playing them
23:09<Ouranogrammi>i probably have them in wrong dir :S
23:11<Rafagd>or TheY HAve CrazY CapS CHanGe SO UniX DoEsN't Find It
23:11<Rafagd>=]
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23:12<Ouranogrammi>Rafagd i thought of that :)
23:12<Ouranogrammi>macos is case sensitive btw?
23:13<Ouranogrammi>i knew linux is case sensitive, but i keep forgot all the time
23:13<Ouranogrammi>one time i tried to import a jpg file into openoffice but i couldn't browse my jpg files although they where there
23:13<Ouranogrammi>they yere... JPG not jpg:P
23:14<Ouranogrammi>were*
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23:16<Rafagd>OSX is unix-link
23:16<Rafagd>like*
23:17<Rafagd>so he may be case sensitive
23:17<Ouranogrammi>bsd like :P
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23:21<Rafagd>Ouranogrammi: you've got the idea XD
23:28<Tefad>bsd and linux both are unix-likes
23:28<Tefad>while bsd has closer roots, it's still no longer offically unix
23:30[~]Ouranogrammi is writing restart to console
23:30<Ouranogrammi>and... server restarts
23:30<Ouranogrammi>but i am a client!
23:30<Ouranogrammi>no rcon no nothing
23:30<Ouranogrammi>does a client has the privilegdes required to restart ?
23:32<Ouranogrammi>lol its restarting the game out of network
23:37<Phazorx>dihedral has a patch which lets you restart the server via rcon
23:41<Tefad>hmm my last statement isn't quite true : ) BSD is a UNIX, but generally UNIX is reserved for commercial OSs
23:42<Tefad>"Unix" however, can be used to describe UNIX-like systems.
23:42<Phazorx>*nix is a good term
23:43<Phazorx>and BSD OS IS unix, modern bsds such as free, open and net are far derivates though
23:44[~]Tefad nods
23:44<Tefad>however *nix doesn't fit "Linux"
23:44<Tefad>* was used to avoid trademark.. i think like a swear word ; )
23:44<Tefad>however some have further modified it to *n?x
23:45<Tefad>i just say unix or linux most of the time
23:45<Tefad>nearly interchangeably
23:45<Tefad>sometimes even posix gets thrown around (cygwin/interix)
23:50[~]Phazorx is happy with msys/mingw :)
23:51<Phazorx>and imho *nix fits any unix like OS
23:55[~]Rafagd start to sleep on the keyboard...
23:55<Rafagd>cya
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 26 00:00:35 2007