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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-26

---Logopened Fri Oct 26 00:00:35 2007
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00:55<tiaz>is there a way to disable breakdowns in the server console?
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02:09<Celestar>TrueBrain: how do I take myself off the mailing list?
02:09<hylje>hi celestar
02:10<hylje>i think you post a message to the unsubscribe address
02:10<Celestar>ok will do
02:10<Celestar>the spam is getting out-of-hand
02:10<hylje>the only unknown here (i suppose) is the address
02:12<Celestar>yeah :P
02:12<Celestar>but no hurry
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05:37<@TrueBrain>Celestar: I am going to shut down the maillist, and fix an other way to do it, as mailman doesn't allow me to filter all the spam
05:37<@TrueBrain>stupid mailman
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05:43<ln->leopard is here [x]
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05:55<Guest598>IDENTIFY Lawrence Mullen jr
05:55<Guest598>Good morning everyone
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06:04<Guest598>It seems i don't really know how to change nickname..
06:04<Guest598>Well i don't know
06:09<BiA|pavel-css>./nick newone
06:11|-|Guest598 changed nick to Benjamin_One
06:11<Benjamin_One>it works
06:12<Benjamin_One>o.k. may i ask you? Searchin for a good server for playing OTTD. No other pathces and so on. Any sugesstions?
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06:20<qkr>check the server list on the ottd website?
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07:08<Benjamin_One>great idea! Thanx
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08:37<dihedral>does anybody now out of the top of their head, how to make the client list window a few pixels wider?
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08:59<fjb>I think I found a problem with some tramsets and Long Vehicles 4. :-(
09:01[~]dihedral still needs to know how to make the client list window a few pixels wider
09:01[~]fjb doesn't know.
09:02<dihedral>that's just not good enough fjb :-P
09:04<fjb>:-) I didn't read enough of the source yet.
09:05<frosch123>Dihedral: search for "static const WindowDesc" in "network_gui.cpp"
09:06<frosch123>"WindowDesc" is declared in "window.h".
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09:07<Ammller>frosch123: concratulation for your nice patch went to trunk btw.
09:07<fjb>Now I know why I never could earn money with any tramset I tested. They have much highter running costs if Long Vehicles 4 were loaded at game creation time.
09:08<Ammller>fjb: nice hint.
09:08<dihedral>very good indeed
09:08[~]dihedral is compiling
09:09<fjb>Loading Long Vehicles 4 into a ruiunning game doesn't affect the running costs of the trams.
09:09<Ammller>someone here already played with dutch trams?
09:09<Ammller>how are they?
09:09<frosch123>thanks Ammller. Rubidium also spent a lot of time on it.
09:09<fjb>They are just great. Cute to look at them. And very usefull in crowded citys.
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09:10<Ammller>yep, I guess so, I watched him committing the patch, was dramatically... :)
09:10<fjb>frosch123: It's really more fun with the new foundations. It looks much better.
09:11<dihedral>it's done
09:11<dihedral>Ammller: you want zero padded id's?
09:12<Ammller>don't thing so
09:12<Ammller>right aligned
09:12<dihedral>how do i do left padding with sprintf?
09:12<dihedral>well - ok
09:13<dihedral>i was just thinking of #1 : blah
09:14<Ammller>dihedral: just do it working nice :)
09:17<Ammller>but with 0 in front isn't readable...
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09:39<ln->OTTD does not compile under OS X Leopard.
09:39<+glx>ln-: fix it :)
09:40<fjb>What prevents it from compiling there?
09:42<@Belugas>ask ln- ;)
09:42<hylje>apple changed stuff around i suppose
09:44<dihedral>what was your ./configure?
09:47<hylje>wrong term ;)
09:47<dihedral>./configure --with-cocoa
09:49<ln->btw, if anyone here has signed Apple's NDA, then DON'T READ WHAT I'M SAYING!
09:50<hylje>that sounds backwards
09:50<ln->NDA about Xcode 3 ends after about 11 hours, which isn't yet.
09:50<ln->I have received Leopard through normal preorder, and never signed an NDA, so it doesn't concern me.
09:54<ln->dihedral: --with-cocoa didn't change anything, and it would be odd if it wasn't the default setting anyway
09:59<dihedral>ln- interested in wwottdgd?
09:59<Kommer>when will the game start tomorrow?
09:59<Kommer>in CET time? :)
09:59<dihedral>internet time
10:00<ln->dihedral: what's wwottdgd?
10:00<Kommer>and thats in CET?
10:00<dihedral>internet time
10:00<dihedral>1000 beats per day
10:00<dihedral>it's the same world wide
10:00<Kommer>yeah yeah yeah, but whats that in CET :)
10:00<Kommer>aka, your own time :)
10:01<dihedral>13:30 CET and 14:30 CEST
10:01<dihedral>game will be avail at least 10 mins before
10:01<dihedral>but paused
10:01<Sacro>whats that in GMT?
10:01<Sacro>ah @562
10:01<Sacro>thats err....
10:01[~]Sacro carries the 1
10:01<Kommer>ah ok, are we gonna do a beta run of the map at the .dev server?
10:01<Sacro>shortly after 12...
10:02<ln->sounds interesting
10:03<dihedral>we are doing beta run right now
10:03<dihedral>12.30 Sacro
10:03<Sacro>dihedral: just fixing the grammer :p
10:04<dihedral>we have a bunch of patches in too, to ensure some sanity level, etc
10:04<Kommer>dihedral: not with the europe map :)
10:04<Kommer>or is that on the actual server already?
10:04<dihedral>with the europe map
10:04<dihedral>it's the actual wwottdgd server
10:04<Ammller>!openttd commit 11341
10:04<+_42_>Commit by glx :: r11341 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h) (2007-10-25 23:24:28 UTC)
10:04<Kommer>which grf pack are we using there?
10:05<+_42_>-Codechange: add missing callback ID enums, add stub for house property 20 and reorder unimplemented action 0 properties
10:05<Ammller>AntB: do you need that for your GRF ?
10:05<+glx>Ammller: nothing important in this commit
10:05<+glx>just more todo stuff
10:05<AntB>nope, don't think so
10:05<Ammller>ok, thanks..
10:05<dihedral>Kommer: you can find all details in the topic of #wwottdgd
10:05<Sacro>dihedral: page updates
10:05<Kommer>ahh ok
10:06<dihedral>Sacro: ??
10:07<Sacro>dihedral: i corrected the grammer and a few spelling mistakes
10:07<dihedral>nice, thanks
10:07<dihedral>Sacro: will we see you there? tomorrow or sunday?
10:08<Sacro>dihedral: most probably
10:08<Sacro>not climbing tommorow, but i might have to go into work
10:08<dihedral>did you see my move clients patch?
10:09<Sacro>err... yes i belive so
10:11<dihedral>it works like a charm
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10:20<blathijs>Hmm, that's a curious subject for a spam email: "Enjoy your life with the patch"
10:21<dihedral>i get kernel ones
10:21<dihedral>and patch too in the meantime
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>i never get spam...
10:23<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: You think every advertised thing is usefull? :-)
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>no, i really never get spam...
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10:37<fjb>What action is responsible for the building and running costs of a vehicle?
10:39<+glx>action 0
10:42<fjb>Thank you.
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10:45<fjb>NFO look complicated...
10:50[~]Sacro sits in the office
10:50<Phazorx>question: can autoslope pricing be changed easily?
10:51[~]fjb sits at home.
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10:52[~]fjb wishes there would be a NFO assembler, or even better a compiler from something readable to NFO.
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10:55<ln->Bjarni: have a look:
10:56<Phazorx>question: can autoslope pricing be changed easily (currently it equal to terraforming of that tile)?
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10:57<@Bjarni>how did you manage to break it like that?
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10:58<@Bjarni>ohh Leopard
10:58<ln->Bjarni: procedure: 1) pre-order Leopard, 2) install Leopard, 3) compile OTTD
10:59<ln->the unix.cpp error is easy
10:59<hylje>speaking of terraforming, how well would bedrock work with ottd as it is?
10:59<@Bjarni>I don't fear unix.cpp
11:00<@Bjarni>I fear the cocoa video driver
11:00<@Bjarni>but for some reason it failed in the sound driver and not in the video driver as expected :o
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11:03<@Bjarni>ln-: but it works with the precompiled binaries, rigth?
11:03<hylje>who cares about that when one can't compile it
11:04<@Bjarni>specially if you can't compile then you want to know
11:05<@Bjarni>also if 10.4 binaries works, then a really quick and dirty hack is to fake the compiler to compile for 10.4 (which should work)
11:05<@Bjarni>I know we want to solve this the right way, but it could take time to solve that sound issue
11:06<@Belugas>Phazorx, look here :
11:06<Phazorx>Belugas: not realy that
11:06<Phazorx>when you build autosloped rail
11:06<Phazorx>it applies proces of terraforming
11:06<Phazorx>so if i have very high terraforming cost
11:07<Phazorx>buulding rail on slop becomes expensive too
11:07<Phazorx>which is not quite what the idea was
11:07<fjb>Hm, why is OpenTTD often one off when tranlating miles/h to km/h?
11:07<Phazorx>Belugas: been there and which one is pricce for autosloped tile ?
11:07<@Belugas>auto slope is not a special building...
11:08<@Belugas>it's just a way of building them
11:08<Phazorx>Belugas: but tracks build on slopes have proces of terraformed tiles + track
11:08<@Belugas>yeah, so?
11:08<Phazorx><Phazorx> question: can autoslope pricing be changed easily (currently it equal to terraforming of that tile)?
11:08<Phazorx>i want to change it
11:08<Phazorx>so autoslope price is regular
11:09<Phazorx>or based on regular
11:09<ln->Bjarni: I didn't try with precompiled binaries.
11:09<Phazorx>because technicaly there is no terraforming
11:09<@Belugas>ok... let start form beginning...
11:09<@Belugas>using gf?
11:09<Phazorx>Belugas: many
11:09<@Bjarni>ln-: would be nice to know the result of such a test :)
11:09<Phazorx>one of which modifies base costs
11:09<hylje>(*cough* coop)
11:09<Phazorx>and make terraforming very high
11:09<@Belugas>using grf method ogf changing cost??
11:09<Phazorx>Belugas: yes
11:10<@Belugas>action 0, prop 8
11:10<Phazorx>NewBaseCost = OldBaseCost * 2^(n-8),
11:10<@Bjarni>basically I presume that I will be flooded with bug reports within the next few days if it fails and I want to know what people will say so I can quickly declare what the issue is ;)
11:10<Phazorx>Belugas: terraforming has n=18
11:11<@Bjarni>I need your work to make it possible to appear like a "know it all developer"
11:11<Phazorx>because we want to have it expensive as hell
11:11<@Bjarni>think of how a boss acts :P
11:11<Phazorx>so num 15 is changed with param 18
11:12<Phazorx>and num 01 is not changed and shouid be dafault
11:12<Phazorx>isuues is when you build on slope (autoslope) it does 15 + 01
11:12<Phazorx>so it get's really expensive
11:13<@Belugas>openttd.h:255, what do you see?
11:13|-|fjb changed nick to fjbAWAY
11:13<Phazorx> Money terraform;
11:13<@Belugas>so, what is your next step?
11:13<ln->Bjarni: gotta try on monday, the leopardified Mac is at work, and i don't work during weekends.
11:14<Phazorx>come here and ask how autoslope behavior can be changed so it does not charge for terraforming theren there is not any ?
11:15<@Belugas>forget the name autoslope, please
11:15<Phazorx>okay "building on sloped tiles"
11:15<@Belugas>15 4BB2 250 raise/lower land
11:15<Phazorx>i'm not rising land, i am building tracks
11:15<@Belugas>1 4B3A 100 build track
11:16<Phazorx>yeah Belugas
11:16<@Belugas>you ARE if you are using autoslope , fore god sake!
11:16<Phazorx>Belugas: which is why i came ehre , asking how to disable that
11:16<@Belugas>so, you have to change BOTH prices if you want autoslope to be changed
11:16<Phazorx>Belugas: i want terraforming costs to be diffrent from slope costs
11:17<@Belugas>[11:09] <Phazorx> Belugas: been there and which one is pricce for autosloped tile ?
11:17<Phazorx>where in the src it decided that slope is terraforming
11:17<@Belugas>i'ver shonw youy the answer
11:17<Phazorx>Belugas: i am trying to separate terraforming from slope price
11:17<Phazorx>since we use a grf that affects terraforming prices
11:17<Phazorx>and as we learned it also does it for sloped tracks
11:17<@Belugas>search yourself... i'm tired of baby feeding
11:17<Phazorx>which is mot desired
11:17<Phazorx>so i am trying to fix that
11:18<Phazorx>Belugas: i know about base costs and grf, what i dont know where these are pallied in the code to sloped tracks, which is the only thing i am asking
11:19<Phazorx>i know how to modify based costs and that is already done, however since sloped tiles are considered terraforming - it lead to undesried effects
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11:22<@Belugas>define indesired effects
11:23<dihedral>undesired in this case = people should not be punished for building on slopes, but should fork out a bunch of cash for terraforming
11:23<dihedral>i.e. seing the 2 as separate things
11:24<dihedral>building on slopes = ok, terraforming not ok
11:25<@Belugas>simply put, there is no difference, it is based on same price
11:26<@Belugas>well... that is the answer to the question too... autoslope is terraforming
11:26<@Belugas>therefore, they use same price
11:26<@Belugas>cannot be changed
11:26<@Belugas>what you guys want, is to STOP the BEHAVIOUR
11:26<dihedral>can i not remove the c/c++ code that states it as terraforming?
11:26<@Belugas>not in trunk, for sure
11:27<dihedral>just for wwottdgd
11:27<dihedral>or did you mean the current version in trunk
11:27[~]dihedral is confuddeld
11:28<@Belugas>i'm not the right person to ask for that, and i doubt there is even the possiblibitly to do so
11:28<dihedral>thank you Belugas
11:28<dihedral>really appreciate your feedback even though you are at work
11:29<@Belugas>does anyone knows of the easiest way to determine if an heating element is burned out, other than putting your hand on it, of course?
11:29<@Belugas>does it have a resistance measurable wih an ohmmeter>
11:30<@Belugas>i'm not at work, i'm at home with a broken water boiuler
11:30<dihedral>good question
11:30<dihedral>now that is a pain
11:30<Phazorx>dihedral: rail_cmd.cpp:284
11:30<Phazorx>300 actualy
11:30<+glx><@Belugas> i'm not at work, i'm at home with a broken water boiuler <-- I had that once, but it was in summer :)
11:31<dihedral>Phazorx: i'll look at it, will still need the same thing for roads and bridges
11:31<Phazorx>dihedral: it's a start
11:31<dihedral>and buildings (stations)
11:31<dihedral>Phazorx: was a hint for you to go search while i see what i can do here :-)
11:32<Phazorx>i am making a patch of some sort
11:32<dihedral>when is tb coming along to make the bins?
11:33<dihedral>Phazorx: search for price.terraform
11:33<Phazorx>i did
11:33<dihedral>and all we would need to do is a fraction of that
11:33<dihedral>so devide by the multiplyer we add in the grf :-D
11:34<Phazorx>i'd do sometihng like 2x rail price rather than terraform+rail
11:34<dihedral>do terraform + rail
11:34<dihedral>but terraform / multiplyer in grf (or half the multiplyer)
11:34<Phazorx>that manes 512000 + 70 for us
11:34<Phazorx>what multiplier?
11:34<dihedral>terraforming costs are being modded to 128x right?
11:35<Phazorx>x1024 in the params but that failed
11:35<Phazorx>so it is only x128
11:35<Phazorx>water is x128 which failed to so it is x512
11:35<dihedral>so in line 299 of rail_cmd.cpp
11:35<Phazorx>and ammler thionks it is all okay :)
11:35<dihedral>_price.terraform / 128
11:36<dihedral>Phazorx: we are 3 people all looking at different aspects
11:36<dihedral>that is bound to go over and under
11:36<Phazorx>well ask Ammller to check the grf thing
11:36<Phazorx>cuz costs i have for teraforming do not match the values of params
11:36<Phazorx>that is grf only
11:38<dihedral>Phazorx: you set terraforming to 1024 and calculations seem to be that of 128?
11:39<Phazorx>for terraforming yes
11:39<Phazorx>and for water clearing 512 instead of 128
11:39<Phazorx>or sometihng like that
11:39<Phazorx>dihedral: for slope building i'd rather have it NOT based on terraforming cost at all
11:40<dihedral>it is the easiest for now
11:40<dihedral>and we only have 20 mins
11:40<Phazorx>it isnt easiest
11:40<Phazorx>easiest is like 2x normal
11:40<Phazorx>or 5x
11:40<dihedral>you dont have 2x anything in that method
11:40<dihedral>all that method does is return the terraforming cost or 0
11:41<Phazorx>and i can make it return any other proce
11:41<dihedral>but 2x what do you want to return
11:41<dihedral>'what' is not available
11:41<Phazorx>of what it is supopsed to be
11:41<Phazorx>say it is road - so 2x road
11:41<dihedral>ROAD AINT THERE
11:41<Phazorx>so total cost for foundation + road is 3x road
11:41<Phazorx>that matters not
11:41<Phazorx>i know the price
11:41<Phazorx>so i cant use it
11:41<dihedral>look at the code
11:42<Phazorx>so for road foundation i can use proce for road
11:42<dihedral>all it does is check if you build on slope or not
11:42<Phazorx>for track foundation price for track
11:42<Phazorx>dihedral: that function checks igf you buld rail on slope
11:42<dihedral>what you could do would be to check the method that calles these checks
11:42<Phazorx>so i can put _price.build_rail;
11:42<Phazorx>in other palces where it is road = _price.build_road;
11:43<Phazorx>if it is a station - _price.train_station_track
11:43<Phazorx>and so on
11:43<dihedral>go ahead
11:43<dihedral>15mins to go :-)
11:43<Phazorx>dihedral: but what is the factor
11:44<dihedral>make it 4 or 8 times what is being built
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12:26<fjb>I have some trouble with grfcodec. I decoded a grf. Encoding from the just decoded data results in lots of warnings about sprites not found an in a broken grf.
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11343 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix[FS#1368]: Autoslope did not work correctly for single track on higher part of steep slopes. (frosch)
12:27<DaleStan>fjb: Exact error messages please. Not necessarily all of them, but exact messages.
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12:28<fjb>Warning: Sprite 9 reports 4 bytes, but I found 12.
12:28<fjb>Warning: Found sprite 18 looking for sprite 10.
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12:29<fjb>And many more of that kind.
12:29<lessj5>hey, why "resetengines" is not working like before? =[
12:30<DaleStan>1) What version? and 2) Can you paste what you think should be sprites 9 and 10?
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12:32<fjb>GRFCodec version 0.9.10
12:32<fjb>Hello Wolf01
12:32<lessj5>how to re-enable old vehicles, like helicopters or old style buses? |=
12:34<fjb>Good question what sprites 9 and 10 are. I'm just a beginner with grfs and sprites. How do I identify them in the nfo file?
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12:34<fjb>Is it the first number in front of the *?
12:35<@Belugas>yes fjb
12:35<@Bjarni>lessj5: type "resetengines" in the terminal but unless you have persistent engines on in your settings they will disappear again
12:37<fjb>Hm, I retried it without touching the data, even not looking at it. Now encoding works.
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12:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11344 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp:
12:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Removes some magic numbers referring the highlighting mode in road_gui.cpp
12:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Some typos fixed too.(FS#1371-skidd13)
12:39<DaleStan>It sounds to me like the Unixy-absolute-paths bug, in which real sprites turn into single bytes in the preceeding pseudo. Compile a later version from source (svn:// or use relative paths instead.
12:40<fjb>Ok, the version that I have has some problems with relative paths, so I used absolut paths.
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12:43<lessj5>[Bjarni]: i forgot persistent engines. K, thx
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12:49<fjb>make complains about upx not found. But at least there is a new grfcodec: GRFCodec version 0.9.10 r1780
12:50<DaleStan>Ah. Right. make wants upx to build grfdiff. But you don't need it for grfcodec or grfmerge, unless you want the release versions (which are conventional builds, plus strip and upx)
12:56<Ammller>guys, is it bad when "Hunk #4 succeeded at 2442 with fuzz 1." appear on patching?
12:56<Ammller>I mean, what does fuzz 1 mean?
12:57<+glx>Ammller: it means it worked
12:57<+glx>but it needed to apply an offset
12:58<Ammller>and that: Hunk #5 succeeded at 2508 (offset -1 lines).
12:58<Ammller>I thought, thats the offset thing...
12:58<+glx>hmm or maybe it removed a blank line
12:59<fjb>Ammller: you shoud start worrying when it says "failed". :-)
13:00<Ammller>yeah, indeed.. but I wondering about this nice word
13:00<Ammller>at least in my language...
13:01<fjb>DaleStan: Now I also have upx and grfdiff and grfmerge. But grfcodec has still some problems. I decoded the grf and reencoded it. When encoding grfcodec complains:
13:01<fjb>GRFCodec version 0.9.10 r1780 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
13:01<fjb>Encoding in temporary file /home/frank/
13:01<fjb>Warning: Found 444 fewer sprites than sprite 0 reports.00%, Redundancy:100%)
13:01<fjb>Sprite 277 Done: 99% Compressed:100% (Transparency:100%, Redundancy:100%)
13:01<fjb>Replacing /home/frank/DutchTramSetW_r15.grf with /home/frank/
13:05<fjb>Sprite 0 is: 0 * 4 D1 02 00 00
13:06<DaleStan>What's the sprite number of the last sprite in the file?
13:06<Ammller>wow, big code
13:07<fjb>It is:
13:07<fjb> 277 * 45 00 01 12 01 4C 00 88 91 03 14 04 FF 08 A0 13 50 14 50 0F 25 07 0F 11 E8 09 F9 02 20 0A 48 4C 00
13:07<fjb> 00 10 00 0E FF 06 07 12 49 17 90 1C 01
13:09<fjb>The grf is the DutchTramset
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13:13<dihedral>what do you need and what do you have regarding ttrs compat.
13:15<AntB>lord guy says it works
13:15<AntB>with ttrs
13:16<dihedral>yes - we have not managed to get it to work though...
13:16<AntB>just gotta load it before ttrs by the looks of it
13:16<dihedral>we are not using default buildings
13:18<AntB>he used ttrs 0 0 0 0 with party square...
13:20<Phazorx>AntB: old or couurent grf?
13:20<Phazorx>old one before/after did not work
13:22<fjb>DaleStan: Maybe the problem starts with decoding the grf. grfcodec says:
13:22<fjb>GRFCodec version 0.9.10 r1780 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
13:22<fjb>/usr/local/share/games/openttd/data/DutchTramSetW_r15.grf has 278 sprites, maxx 0, maxy 0, maxs 0.
13:23<fjb>The maxx 0, maxy 0, maxs 0 look strange.
13:24<AntB>hes got the old one working
13:28<Phazorx>somwething is wrong
13:28<Phazorx>what is the year of that SS?
13:29<Phazorx>cuz 0 means follow timeline
13:29<AntB>doesn't say
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13:41<fjb>When decoding the grf using the latest grfcodec from svn the pcx file contains only the sprite numbers, not the sprite pictures.
13:43<DaleStan>Is that the original, or the one you encoded when you got all the warning messages?
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13:45<fjb>Ups, good point. I have to recheck that. I'm getting confused...
13:46<fjb>It was the broken grf. Thank you.
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13:48<fjb>The new grfcodec is working. :-)
13:49<fjb>Now get prepared for my questions about the actions of the NFO file...
13:51<fjb>My first modification is working.
13:57<fjb>I'm dividing the building costs in the tram grf by the factor that George used as multiplier in his Long Vehicles.
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14:17<AntB>gotta work, cya later
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14:22<fjb>I'm having usable trams now. :-) Thank you, especially DaleStan, for your help.
14:23<hylje>*tram bzzt*
14:23<hylje>hmm, wtf sounds do trains in general make
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14:23<hylje>steam trains say choochoo
14:23<hylje>(locomotives, silly)
14:24<dihedral>Rubidium / Belugas / Bjarni or any other admin... would it be possible for you to make for us?
14:25<Maedhros>chances are good that you missed the only person who can; i.e. TrueBrain :p
14:25<Phazorx>well shorter is better
14:25<fjb>Trams are fun, no matter what sound they make. :-)
14:25<Phazorx>and ottd.openttd/org is kinda repetative
14:25<hylje>Phazorx: redundancy is kinda bad
14:25<hylje>Phazorx: and a katchy TLA or a single world are great, too
14:26<Phazorx>all for that
14:26<Phazorx>but let's figure out with can and want to do it
14:26<Phazorx>then we can brainstorm the name
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14:28<hylje>the name, the game, you just lost it
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14:39[~]fjb is happy about his new trams.
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14:42<Ammller>fjb: what was the problem?
14:42<Ammller>I mean, why had you to change the tramset?
14:46<Ammller>oh sorry
14:46<Ammller>wrong channel
14:50<fjb>Ammller: Yes, I devided all costs by 8 to make it compatible with Long Vehicles 4.
14:50<fjb>Now the trams make money.
14:50<fjb>And they are fun to watch.
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14:55<Ammller>fjb: running costs?
14:55<fjb>Yes, running cost an building cost.
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14:56<Ammller>hmm, you should post this version to the forum...
14:56<fjb>Don't know if the original author would like that.
14:57<Ammller>hmm, maybe a seperate grf, which changes only this...
14:57<Ammller>its still in development
14:57<Ammller>I guess, they didn't thought about using it with 4lv yet
14:58<Ammller>hmm, a separate grf would be easy, just diff nfos, possible?
14:58<fjb>The licence doesn't allow me to post a modified version. I just looked at it.
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14:59<Ammller>is he allowed to use such a licence?
14:59<fjb>The authors are aware of the problem with LV4.
15:00<fjb>Ofcourse he is allowed to use such a licence. As least I don't know any reason that would not allow him to.
15:01<fjb>Ammller: Did you try the Dutch Tramset?
15:01<Ammller>not now, but I am on it...
15:01<fjb>And you use Long Vehicles 4?
15:01<Ammller>I like that too, yes
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15:05<fjb>I just made a diff of the modified NFO. I could send that diff to you.
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15:12<Ouranogrammi>can i "readvertise" my network game, because i run a dedicated linux server but my internet connection is dynamic so mi IP changes every one or two days?
15:13<Ouranogrammi>i do have a DNS that updates every time IP changes, can i use make clients use DNS instead?
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15:16<@Belugas>Wolf01, can you explain me why the ToggleTransparencies function does not toggle signs? what was the objective?
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15:27<@Rubidium>Ouranogrammi: it is done automatically every 15 minutes
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16:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11345 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: a bit of comment style fixing
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16:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11346 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h): -Codechange: Add marker has_newwater to the loaded grf features. Not in used yet.
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause>i smell a feature arising
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16:50<Wolf01>hello again
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>oh grandmother, why do you have such big eyes?
16:51<Wolf01>because i want to see you better
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>oh grandmother, why do you have such big hands?
16:52<Wolf01>because i want to touch you better
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>oh grandmother, why do you have such a big mouth?
16:53<Wolf01>because i'm yawning :OOO
16:55<@Bjarni>hmm... no sexual reference.... is this really the internet?
16:55<Wolf01>no but... follow the white rabbit
16:55<@Bjarni>where is it?
16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11347 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use marker loaded grf feature has_newwater when it is required. (more to come)
16:55<Wolf01>on your right, there, on the left
16:56<@Belugas>in his hole, of course
16:56<@Belugas>Wolf01, can you explain me why the ToggleTransparencies function does not toggle signs? what was the objective?
16:56<@Bjarni>you mean I have to aim for the hole?
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't have alice-dsl
16:56<Wolf01>belugas, peter 1138 wanted so
16:56<@Belugas>good enough of a reason to me ;)
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16:57<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause> but i don't have alice-dsl <-- I think if you eat mushrooms then you will automatically get this
16:58<@Bjarni>I can't say I recommend doing so...
16:58<@Bjarni>it could be unstable
16:58<hylje>ooo wut?
16:59<ln->egladil: do you have ideas?
16:59<egladil>hum? about what?
16:59<@Bjarni>the game
17:00<hylje>you just lost it
17:00<ln->... this:
17:00<ln->(that's on Leopard)
17:00<@Bjarni>oh right
17:00<ln->and the unix.cpp error is an easy fix.
17:01<egladil>leopard breaks the sounddriver?
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17:01<@Bjarni>what surprises me the most is that the sound driver fails while the video driver works o_O
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't all the Cocoa stuff deprecated anyway?
17:02<@Bjarni>only the fullscreen video driver
17:02<@Rubidium>isn't leopard already deprecated?
17:02<@Bjarni>and that's why I'm surprised that it still works
17:02<ln->Eddi|zuHause: i doubt Cocoa stuff has ever been deprecated.
17:03<ln->rather QuickDraw or something.
17:03<@Bjarni><Rubidium> isn't leopard already deprecated? <-- officially it came out today at 18:00 (our time)
17:03<@Bjarni>but some preordered DVDs arrived early
17:03<ln->Bjarni: and 18:00 our time, and 18:00 american time.
17:03<@Rubidium>Bjarni: I know
17:03<ln->Rubidium: it's vista 2.0, it's not deprecated.
17:04<@Rubidium>hope it's not vista 2.0
17:04<@Rubidium>gives me yet another reason NOT to buy a mac
17:04<egladil>it's not
17:05<ln->in the sense that it introduces the new features that vista 2.0 will have after 7 years.
17:05<@Rubidium>and it looks like wireless is worse with leopard (or so is the experience of my brother)
17:05<@Bjarni>worse... how?
17:05<@Bjarni>worse signal strength?
17:05<@Rubidium>from good coverage -> bad coverage
17:06<@Rubidium>like being able to internet in the living room to not being able to internet in the living room
17:06<ln->hmmm, actually i think i heard something like that from #somewhere else, too.
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17:07<@Bjarni>I fear Apple rushed it a bit too much
17:07<ln->which, in turn, implies that it's a known problem and will get fixed hopefully soon.
17:08<LeviathNL>does not update anymore :S ?
17:08<@Rubidium>ln-: Apple made their iconv bug-for-bug compatible with GNU/GLibc?
17:08<@Bjarni>it looks stalled somehow
17:09<@Bjarni>iconv bug-for-bug?
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17:09<@Rubidium>LeviathNL: looks like that yeah, don't know why though
17:09<ln->Rubidium: probably added the const.
17:09<@Rubidium>ln-: rather removed the const
17:09<ln->oh. that way. mmm'kay
17:09<@Rubidium>as non-const -> const conversions do not give errors
17:10<@Bjarni>the only issue I had with iconv was the one from fink. I reported the issue and they fixed it in their 1.11 update
17:10<hylje>this should be what toyland (foodland?) should be like:
17:10<@Rubidium>and if you read the comment a few lines before the iconv in unix.cpp you can read that it should be const char* and not char*
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17:14<@Rubidium>just as Windows is still bug-for-bug compatible with a design choice in MS DOS 0 (or something like that)
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17:16<ln->Bjarni: the Xcode tools 3 (still under NDA!!) include subversion, btw, and it is no longer necessary to install that from fink.
17:16<ln->(Xcode 3 only for Leopard)
17:17<@Bjarni>is Xcode 3 so cool that you "want to make bugs to work with the debugger"?
17:18<@Bjarni>somehow I don't think I want to make bugs nomatter how great the debugger is :P
17:18<ln->actually i couldn't find the backtrace of an aborted program, but...
17:18<ln->but i was about to go home from work and didn't have time or interest to look further.
17:19<@Bjarni>sounds reasonable
17:20<@Rubidium>LeviathNL: can't update the git/hg myself; tried, but don't have enough rights. Looks like only TrueBrain can do it.
17:21<@Bjarni>ln-: what version of fontconfig is installed in Leopard? If you check the configure output then it will tell you
17:21<@Bjarni>I presume that you didn't check this, so it's a task for you to do when you get back to the computer ;)
17:21<ln->i have ssh access to it right now.
17:22<@Bjarni>ssh should be enough for configure
17:22<ln->executing pkg-config fontconfig --modversion returned exit code 127
17:22<ln->checking libfontconfig... not found
17:22<@Bjarni>that looks... wrong
17:23<@Bjarni>checking libfontconfig... needs at least version 2.3.0, fontconfig NOT enabled <-- this is what I get because Tiger comes with 2.1.0
17:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r11348 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r11049): [OSX] killed a warning (don't ask why only OSX showed this one)
17:34<ln->what warning?
17:34<@Bjarni>src/vehicle_gui.cpp:1483: warning: control may reach end of non-void function 'bool IsVehicleServiceIntervalEnabled(VehicleType)' being inlined
17:35<ln->maybe it's a warning patched by apple?
17:35<ln->into gcc
17:35<@Bjarni>it will always trigger a return before the last line, but the compiler can't figure that out
17:35<@Bjarni>it's a switch-case
17:36<@Bjarni>yeah Apple changed some stuff in gcc
17:36<@Bjarni>we already noticed
17:36<@Bjarni>at one time I got some perfectly valid warnings, but I was the only one to get them
17:36<@Bjarni>but in this case the warning was false alarm
17:37<Ailure>mm warnings
17:37<@Bjarni>now I'm back to 0 warnings
17:37<Ailure>reminds me about when I was having a school project with firmware programming
17:37<Ailure>we used lots of code for operating system that wasn't ours
17:37<Ailure>the operating system had a quite few errors
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17:38<Ailure>and from what I gather, it probably would been trival to fix them too
17:38<Ailure>but it wasn't my code either way so I never bothered to touch it
17:38<ln->/Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/music/qtmidi.cpp: In function 'void SetMIDITypeIfNeeded(const FSSpec*)':
17:38<ln->/Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/music/qtmidi.cpp:92: warning: 'FSpMakeFSRef' is deprecated (declared at /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Headers/Files.h:7477)
17:38<Ailure>most warnings I gotten caused my own source code
17:38<Ailure>was silly things like
17:39<Ailure>"no newline at end of file"
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17:40<Ailure>ok, going to get some needed sleep
17:40<ln->Bjarni: another warning:
17:40<@Bjarni>at one time during a lecture a professor talked about how some people see C as "write only" language because once it's written nobody understands it. Then he put an example code on the projector and says that we had to use code kind of like this for the excises and talks about why it works. Then I said "you have an overflow in the line saying..."
17:40<ln->/Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp: In function 'void DisplaySplashImage()':
17:40<ln->/Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp:150: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions
17:40<@Bjarni>so much for "write only" :P
17:41<@Bjarni><Ailure> "no newline at end of file" <-- this is actually not a silly warning. Old compilers can't handle the code if it's missing due to how compilers works. Modern compilers tend to detect this and add the newline themselves
17:42<Ailure>I meant
17:42<Ailure>warnings that would be trivial to fix
17:42<Ailure>I assumed it was something parser-related
17:42<Ailure>so it was something I winded up fixing anyway
17:42<Ailure>so even old C compilers would compile it
17:43<@Bjarni>basically the compiler reads the source file char by char and once it reaches } and is done, it's done. The problem is that it can't read a char before the next char is in the input buffer
17:44<Ailure>but how old C-compilers are we talking about here anyway
17:44<Ailure>I can imagine it was a common problem amongst newbies to forget that newline :P
17:45<@Bjarni>gcc 4 has this issue, but they added the ability to check for a trailing newline and add it if missing
17:45<@Bjarni>basically all the compilers has this issue. The question is if it's able to detect this and add it on it's own
17:46<@Bjarni>ln-: yeah... now I get this warning too... I wonder how that one started to appear....
17:46<Ailure>anyway, i'm going to sleep now for real.
17:46<@Bjarni>in your dreams
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18:39<Eddi|zuHause><Bjarni> now I'm back to 0 warnings <-- "time to target the real errors now" ;)
18:41<Phazorx>hmm... where is the color which is used by spectators and server are defined?
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20:31<dihedral>compare 2 strings, there is a function for that right? cannot find it, any hints
20:33<dihedral>return value?
20:35<+glx>0 if equal
20:36<Eddi|zuHause>0? sounds a bit reversed...
20:37<+glx>no, because it can be <0 and >0 to indicate string order
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>ah, like that
20:39<dihedral>where can i find colors for chat messages
20:39<dihedral>red = 438
20:39<dihedral>i outputted a debug message
20:40<dihedral>i thought there were only 16 colors, and in an array
20:50<dihedral>how do i calculate colors for chat messages??
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21:02<Stigmata>I'm having problem upgrading my train to monorail
21:03<Phazorx>tracks are upgratebale
21:03<Phazorx>trains are just diffrent
21:03<Stigmata>how can I upgrade my train
21:03<Phazorx>no easy way
21:03<Phazorx>you have to recreate it
21:04<Stigmata>i have to delete it and than create a new one?
21:04<Phazorx>if you have few trains - delete it and depot where it was
21:04<AntB>just use replace trains on the vehicle list?
21:04<AntB>srry, reading back that wont work :D
21:04[~]glx slaps AntB
21:04<Phazorx>put depot of new type and create a train there
21:04<Phazorx>it will have same name/schedule/group as old one
21:04[~]AntB runs back into wwottdgd
21:04<Phazorx>works only wth one trains though
21:04<Stigmata>ok i'll try
21:05<Phazorx>glx: where is display color defined
21:05<Phazorx>for server/game messages
21:06<Phazorx>that's a nice feaure
21:06<Stigmata>its not working
21:09<Phazorx>did you send the train to depot ?
21:09<Phazorx>did you seel the train?
21:10<Phazorx>did you remove the depot?
21:10<Phazorx>did you put a new one of another type there?
21:10<Stigmata>at the same place?
21:10<Phazorx>wont work now
21:10<Phazorx>since you create a train somewhere else
21:10<Phazorx>so it took that ID
21:11<Stigmata>ok now i created the depot at the same place
21:11<Phazorx>well sequence is important
21:11<Phazorx>however, for the train you buuld, check the schedule
21:12<Stigmata>i need to built the same train?
21:13<+glx>Phazorx: _string_colormap
21:14<Phazorx>Stigmata: it is quite tricky and only thing you get to maintain is the schedule
21:15<Stigmata>this is the only thing i want, but its not working
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21:16<Phazorx>Stigmata: normaly it works, if train gets same number it gets the schedule
21:16<Phazorx>as long as you created it right after
21:16<+glx>one train at a time
21:17<Stigmata>it gets the same number
21:17<Stigmata>but not the schedule
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21:29<Stigmata>so nothing else to do?
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 27 00:00:49 2007