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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-28

---Logopened Sun Oct 28 00:00:29 2007
---Daychanged Sun Oct 28 2007
00:00<Thiniad>at this moment im thinking of making new maglev trails
00:00|-|TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C6C3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
00:01<BigBB>okay, my knowledge about NewGRF are low. But for new maglev tracks you need only an action A
00:01<BigBB>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionA
00:03<Thiniad>hmm that doesnt look difficult
00:04<BigBB>it's easy
00:04<BigBB>if you are an artist
00:04<Thiniad>it's worth a try
00:05<Thiniad>i have lot of free time so i got nothing to lose
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00:06<BigBB>are you an artist or a coder?
00:07<Thiniad>nothing
00:07<BigBB>your fault :)
00:07<Thiniad>for me its easier to artist as i dont like numbers
00:08<Thiniad>neitheir im good at math...
00:09<Thiniad>what is time at you?
00:10<BigBB>i'm a coder ...
00:11<BigBB>c / nfo / and a little bit c++
00:12<Thiniad>is it difficult being a coder?
00:12<BigBB>it depends on what do you want to code
00:13<Thiniad>aha
00:13<BigBB>for e.g. OTTD you must first understand the code what you want to edit/extend
00:13<BigBB>for e.g. NewGRF it depends on what you want make
00:14<Thiniad>so there are things that are immpossible to make
00:14<BigBB>it can be very easy till extremly complicate
00:14<Thiniad>heh
00:14<BigBB>there'sa no immpossible
00:14<BigBB>-a
00:16<BigBB>I can help you to edit a patch or grf. but only if I like it how the other coders who can help you...
00:16<Thiniad>so i can ask you devs to create new memory optimization engine for easy handling of very large maps with 32bpp graphic and hundreds of vehicles?
00:16<BigBB>I'm no OTTD dev :D
00:16<Thiniad>thank you. if i need help i will ask you
00:16<Thiniad>AH
00:17<BigBB>I'm a 'free' dev
00:17<Thiniad>AHA!
00:17<Thiniad>freelancer
00:17<BigBB>:)
00:17<Thiniad>thats good
00:18<Thiniad>hmm....its 5am....
00:18<BigBB>no: 05:18 ^^
00:19<Thiniad>no need to be so specific lol, its actually 5:18am -1 that was stolen at 2:59:59am
00:19<Thiniad>lol
00:20<Thiniad>argh i meant 6:18 -1....
00:21<Tefad_>errr why isn't my steel mill requiring coal?
00:22<DaleStan>Because you didn't load ECS or PBI?
00:23<Tefad_>i thought in classic they're required
00:23<Tefad_>both coal and iron
00:23<DaleStan>Nope.
00:23<Tefad_>reaaaly
00:23<Tefad_>what have i been playing all these years? : x
00:23<Tefad_>so coal only goes to power plants?
00:24[~]DaleStan thinks briefly.
00:24<DaleStan>Yep. Just power plants.
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01:03<BigBB>good night
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01:55<Thiniad>is shoreline patch from BigBB supported in latest nightly?
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02:35<Thiniad>is alpine climate patch compatible with nighty builds ottd?
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02:56<Thiniad>why is ottd using large cpu power for 512x512 map with 32bpp water and grass with animation?? is there any way to reduce that?
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03:25<Yorick>Ammler here?
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04:35<Luukland>Maarten :) Could I query you?
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04:40<Wolf01>hello
04:40<Luukland>heya
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04:54<nairan>morning
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05:14<mcbane>hmm
05:15<mcbane>tourist center accept tourist but produce non and dont acccept food and valuables as it shout.
05:15<mcbane>*should.
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05:46<mcbane>http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rumblevilletransport8thgb2.png nice ecs error or news error.
05:48<Maedhros>heh, nice
05:49<Maedhros>where on the map does the message take you if you click on it?
05:50<Maedhros>hmm, probably nowhere
05:51<Eddi|zuHause3>i noticed that tourist centers often get created on water during map generation
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05:52<Maedhros>hmm, i wonder who's bug that is? probably ours, i guess :)
05:52<Maedhros>anyway, please can you post it on bugs.openttd.org?
05:53<Eddi|zuHause3>you have a weird construction style...
05:53<Eddi|zuHause3>afraid of signals?
05:54<mcbane>into the water
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05:54<Eddi|zuHause3>no, i mean your rails ;)
05:54<mcbane>eddi: heh was a test if i can make money and try out if tourist centers work..
05:55<mcbane>=D
05:55<Eddi|zuHause3>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Dannenmuenster%20Transport,%2029.%20Okt%201922.png <- my station style ;)
05:56<mcbane>who builds in südhorst =P
05:57<mcbane>maedhros. thers a bug with tourist centers. they should accept food cargo and tourist and produce tourists but with no esc combination i can make acccept those.
05:58<mcbane>it sais accept tourists but it dont produce/accept anything
05:58<mcbane>eddit: yea im not that good so i use basics.
05:59<Eddi|zuHause3>my tourist centers do accept food
06:00<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, actually, no... it says it accepts stuff, but the station doesn't
06:00<ln->that mine so much doesn't match with the style of other grapchis
06:00<ln->graphics
06:00<mcbane>eddi: it also sais it produce tourist but it dont. neither valuables.
06:02<Eddi|zuHause3>ln-: yeah, there's more style stuff
06:03<Eddi|zuHause3>e.g. the industry next to it has an insane height
06:07<mcbane>http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crumpleworthtransport28rt9.png
06:08<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... the autoroad tool is funny and nice, but the 'A' button still opens the rail toolbar
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06:09<Maedhros>i have no idea why that was ever a global shortcut
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06:19<Maedhros>argh. the autoroad sprite looks really ugly with the dos data files
06:34<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... i need turning loop stations for trams...
06:34<Eddi|zuHause3>what happend to the newgrf ports?
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07:31<Jhs>can someone tell me how to change openttd.cfg in Ubuntu?
07:32<Jhs>when i try to save it, it says "Unexpected error: file not found"
07:32<Jhs>(in norwegian)
07:37<Maedhros>which version of openttd are you using?
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07:43<Jhs>Maedhros, the latest. 0.5.3
07:43<tiaz_>what editor are you using?
07:43<Jhs>gedit
07:44<tiaz_>could you try saving it elsewhere and move it over the "real" one?
07:44<Jhs>the thing is, i can't find the real one.
07:44<tiaz_>er ...
07:44<Jhs>i find it using terminal, but not in nautilus
07:44<tiaz_>then what are you modifying?
07:44<LeviathNL>~/.openttd/ ?
07:44<tiaz_>oh
07:44<@Rubidium>Jhs: find / -iname "openttd.cfg" ?
07:44<tiaz_>the directory or the file?
07:44<Jhs>the directory
07:45<tiaz_>the directory is hidden (that's what files/dirs that start with "." are)
07:45<tiaz_>you can type it in (/home/yourname/.openttd/ or ~/.openttd or probably even .openttd/) and it will go there though
07:45<tiaz_>into the gedit open dialog I mean
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07:46<LeviathNL>in nautilus you can use <ctrl>-h to show these hidden files
07:46<Jhs>aught, now i found it
07:46<Rysh>hi :)
07:47<Jhs>it worked now. thanks for the help, folks. :)
07:47[~]Jhs needed to change the standard font, because he's gonna start playing in Esperanto to up his Esperanto skillz. :D
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07:51<skidd13>hi
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07:57<skidd13>TrueBrain: are you awake?
08:03<TrueBrain>skidd13: awake: yes; really busy: that too
08:11<qkr>is there a way to build one way signals fast on railway track? I normally drag the signals but then I have to manually convert them to 1 way signals one by one
08:11<Progman>convert first, then drag
08:12<qkr>thx
08:17<skidd13>TrueBrain: Just a side notice between your bussy day. I reduced a few things by replacing the includes by the ones provided by the NVIDIA installer and then added #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES 1 before the gl includes. But now this error occurs http://paste.openttd.org/266
08:17<skidd13>:%s /bussy/busy/g
08:19<TrueBrain>seems a wrong * somewhere
08:28<skidd13>The qestion is where...
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09:29<Alberth>What is the rationale for not publishing that a player was discovered bribing? (source code seems to indicate that, town_cmd.cpp, around line 2070: /* only show errormessage to the executing player. ....*/), Wouldn't it be fun to publish this in multi-player games?
09:30<Alberth>(and the same for the other things one can do in a town)
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09:39<Sacro>Anyone in here using Anjuta? I can't get it to make a project from trunk :(
09:45<TrueBrain>http://81.171.98.110:8084/
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09:45<TrueBrain>click 'up/down/left/right' ;)
09:46<skidd13>TrueBrain: WTF
09:49<TrueBrain>skidd13: don't you like it? :p
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09:49<TrueBrain>skidd13: btw, IW as thinking about the OpenGL, I remember Ihad to do something simular
09:49<skidd13>TrueBrain: WebTTD is mad. I like it :D
09:50<TrueBrain>it is just showing landscape :p
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09:50<skidd13>Nobody's perfect
09:50<TrueBrain>hi, my name is nobody
09:51|-|skidd13 changed nick to nobody
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09:51<skidd13>:D
09:51<TrueBrain>my point exactly :)
09:51<Luukland>Ammler :)
09:51<TrueBrain>anyway, generation time is too high
09:51<Luukland>May I query you Ammler / Ammller?
09:51<TrueBrain>@kick Luukland for the love of God, stop asking that all the time
09:52|-|Luukland kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [for the love of God, stop asking that all the time]
09:52<skidd13>TrueBrain: Do you remember the fix for opengl?
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09:52<TrueBrain>skidd13: adding the define you said, and ... something else, something simple
09:52<Luukland>Grmbl...
09:52<TrueBrain>Luukland: sorry, it is really annoying, you asking that all the time. Just send him a PM, he will reply when ever he wants to
09:53<Alberth>TrueBrain: FAB!
09:53<skidd13>Luukland: try at #wwottdgd
09:53<Luukland>TrueBrain.. I try to be polite :)
09:53<Luukland>That's all :)
09:53<TrueBrain>Luukland: yeah, but you never talk to him in this channel :p
09:53<Luukland>I aint talk to anyone here :)
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09:54<skidd13>(14:53:52) Luukland: I aint talk to anyone here :) <<< So do you?
09:54<TrueBrain>my point ;) So all we see, if you trying to reach someone :) I want to know what you guys are saying, or keep it private ;)
09:54<Luukland>Certainly :)
09:54<TrueBrain>skidd13: I just can't remember what it was exactly...
09:54<Sacro>TrueBrain: i see the land, but how do i build anything?
09:54<TrueBrain>and I can't find my working copy...
09:54<Sacro>TrueBrain: actually, could that be hijacked for graphics testing?
09:54<skidd13>Hrmpf
09:54<TrueBrain>Sacro: pick up an piece of paper, and paste it on your screen
09:55[~]skidd13 hands TrueBrain the find tool
09:55<TrueBrain>most likely I removed my working copy
09:55<TrueBrain>I do that from time to time :p
09:55[~]skidd13 hands Truebrain the recover tool :D
09:55<TrueBrain>ah, it is in my 32bpp git
09:55<TrueBrain>/static PFNGLCOLORTABLEEXTPROC glColorTableEXT = NULL;
09:56<Sacro>TrueBrain: i like this :)
09:56<TrueBrain>that is what I did :p
09:56<TrueBrain>with an extra / in front
09:56<Sacro>though not really networkable
09:56<TrueBrain>and #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES before <SDL.h>
09:56<TrueBrain>Sacro: why not?
09:56<Sacro>i'd have to make multiple copies and post them
09:56<Sacro>PBIMTTD!
09:56<TrueBrain>Sacro: it takes a bit longer, but not impossible
09:57<TrueBrain>OpenTTD over email :)
09:57<skidd13>TrueBrain: Does not work. Is your git online?
09:57<TrueBrain>skidd13: it is only local, as it is peter's patch, with those 2 changes
09:57<skidd13>Hmm. Maybe I've to rebase my copy.
10:01<skidd13>trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:22: Error: expected unqualified-id before »/« token
10:01<TrueBrain>as said: 2 /
10:01<TrueBrain>my IRC only put in 1
10:01<TrueBrain>was silly :p
10:02<skidd13>Ah
10:02<skidd13>:D
10:03<TrueBrain>I wonder how I can remove the flickering...
10:03<skidd13>still this one: http://paste.openttd.org/267
10:04<TrueBrain>comment out that block too
10:04<skidd13>I remembered that I did that earlier and my linker went mad.
10:05<TrueBrain>I just commented out all glColorTableEXT stuff
10:05<TrueBrain>worked fine
10:05<TrueBrain>linker errors are good, means compiler did its job
10:05<TrueBrain>linker errors can be missing -lgl
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10:08<huma>hmm, why i can't see any new indistries in r11255?
10:10<LeviathNL>did you use any newindustries grf's?
10:11|-|Luukland [~luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit []
10:11<@Belugas>did you specified none on number of industries?
10:11<@Belugas>dom you have a plain vanilla nightly?
10:12<@Belugas>a lot of possibilities, since here, it works...
10:12<Maedhros>morning Belugas :)
10:14<skidd13>Truebrain works now -lGL -lGLU have been missing
10:14<@Belugas>hey Maedhros :)
10:15<TrueBrain>skidd13: as I said ;)
10:15<skidd13>Thanks
10:15<TrueBrain>have fun with it :)
10:17<skidd13>:D I'll try to connect ot wwottdgd cause my hardware was too weak recently
10:17<LeviathNL>Codechange: use marker loaded grf feature has_newwater when it is required. (more to come) Belugas, can we expect BigBBs completely shore or boekabarts Sealevel patch in trunk soon? :)
10:19<@Belugas>LeviathNL...naaaa... it was just an exercise of grf feature specifying ;)
10:19<@Belugas>the more to come simply means more grf feature specifier to come
10:19<@Belugas>lol
10:20[~]Belugas goes away from keyboard, back to real life
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10:36<skidd13>TrueBrain: Even with opengl my hardware is too weak for wwottdgd :(
10:37<TrueBrain>skidd13: the blitter only takes that much CPU :)
10:37<TrueBrain>YAPF (or rather: TrainController) uses more :)
10:38<skidd13>Yup I hoped I could get a few percentages from my CPU. And I could connect again but with this lags nobody wants to play.
10:40<skidd13>TrueBrain: I get a mad idea what about using something like CUDA for pathfinding?
10:41<skidd13>So use GPU for pathfinding :D
10:45<huma>LeviathNL: should i get industry gfx separately?
10:47<LeviathNL>yes, http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/index.php?do=list&cid=4 is a good place to start looking
10:49<huma>would be nice to icnlude them in the package
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11:12<dihedral>TrueBrain: is that idea of skidd really possible?
11:12<TrueBrain>everything is possible :)
11:12<hylje>:p
11:12<hylje>gpu-accelerated pathfinding
11:12<hylje>brilliant
11:13<ln->why not gpu-accelerated graphics first?
11:16<dihedral>and where exactly do your sprites need accelerating
11:16<TrueBrain>blittering
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11:24<ln->dihedral: the phase where they move from system memory to your graphics card's memory and the screen.
11:24<dihedral>:-)
11:24<dihedral>but is it that much?
11:26<ln->some believe it is, but i don't have statistics.
11:26<TrueBrain>ln-: btw, if the backend support it , we already do use the graphics card's memory
11:26<TrueBrain>(as we simply request a video-buffer from the backend)
11:27<ln->cool
11:28<TrueBrain>the only thing we might want to add, is to put the sprites in the GPs memory too :p
11:28<TrueBrain>but the speed-gain willb e minimum
11:28<TrueBrain>(when moving the screen, the buffer is moved around, so pretty fast ;))
11:28<ln->what about drawing stuff on an OpenGL texture?
11:29<TrueBrain>see peter's OpenGL patch
11:29<TrueBrain>it loads all sprites as textures, I believe
11:29<TrueBrain>OpenGL only has a few problems to work correctly :)
11:31<+glx>one of them is the need for sdl :)
11:31<ln->so, effectively all this means i need to go buy a faster cpu to be able to play or even observe wwottdgd.
11:31<TrueBrain>it works fine here :p
11:31<TrueBrain>with 40% load...
11:31<TrueBrain>@op
11:31|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:31<@TrueBrain>@deop
11:31|-|mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:31<TrueBrain>hmm, I don't have any old-topics in my history lsit
11:31<TrueBrain>that sucks :p
11:31<+glx>do you want the old one?
11:31<TrueBrain>ah, I do
11:31<TrueBrain>@op
11:32|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:32|-|[TrueBrain] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | YouTube link == Ban
11:32<@TrueBrain>@deop
11:32|-|mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:32<TrueBrain>ln-: remember that most of the CPU goes to the train controller
11:32<TrueBrain>not to the blitter or other graphical things
11:32<ln->m'kay
11:33<TrueBrain>(and if you want to know how much, profile the game :))
11:36<dihedral>is there no way of making that a little 'sliker'?
11:37<TrueBrain>feel free to try
11:37<TrueBrain>make a profile, pick the top function, try to optimize it
11:38<dihedral>i want to have a closer look at the networking first :-)
11:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11352 /trunk/src/ (misc_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: cache callback 2D result (vehicle color mapping) instead calling it every time the vehicle is drawn
11:41[~]ln- preparing to compile with debug symbols on Mac...
11:42<ln->should i use DEBUG=1 or what?
11:42<hylje>DEBUG=FILE_NOT_FOUND
11:43<+glx>./configure --enable-debug=3
11:45<ln->thanks
11:46<+glx>but for profiling level 3 may be too much
11:46<+glx>there's a switch to enable profiling
11:47<ln->i'm not going to use gprof.
11:47<ln->but Shark
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12:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11353 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: add support for newgrf callback 32
12:04<Progman>yeah, newgrf callback 32
12:04<Progman>what is it?
12:04<Maedhros>why not look it up? :p
12:04<ln->ok, i have a 2048^2 map with no trains nor other vehicles.
12:05<ln->21.7% of CPU is eaten by GetTileType(unsigned)
12:05<TrueBrain>ln-: and you total CPU usage is almost nothing ;)
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12:06<Maedhros>ln-: a lot of those might well be called from asserts, since you've enabled debugging
12:07<ln->ok, what options should i pass and what animals to sacrifice to compile with full optimizations, no asserts, but with debug symbols?
12:07<+glx>--disable-assert
12:07<TrueBrain>and lvl1 debug
12:08<skidd13>TrueBrain: checked FS1341 ?
12:08<TrueBrain>skidd13: didn't had the time
12:08<skidd13>no problem
12:08<ln->and animals?
12:08<TrueBrain>ln-: downside of using lvl1 debug, is that you don't see the inlines ;)
12:09<TrueBrain>sheep
12:09<TrueBrain>always sheep
12:09<TrueBrain>and then get me some soarma!
12:09<Maedhros>full optimisation and debug symbols rarely play well together...
12:09<ln->"Unknown option --with-sheep"
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12:19<TrueBrain>http://81.171.98.110:8084/ <- now without flickering :)
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12:31<ln->someone remove the [x] button from difficulty settings window immediately!
12:31<skidd13>ln-: why?
12:32<ln->skidd13: it behaves differently than all other [x] buttons in the game.
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>countersuggestion: add a "discard changes?" dialogue
12:33<skidd13>What do you expect from it?
12:33<ln->skidd13: i expect it to close the window and apply the settings i just changed.
12:34<ln->but noooo, it just silently ignores them.
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>skidd13: other windows (e.g. patch settings) do not require saving
12:35<skidd13>ln-: Wait a second I take a look at it.
12:38<skidd13>The change to autosave won't be too difficult. But I'd prefer a popup.
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12:39<ln->skidd13: darkvater doesn't prefer.
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12:40<Maedhros>that's deliberate - otherwise you wouldn't be able to go back from custom if you change any difficulty settings
12:40<ln->skidd13: but anyway, there is already a save button and a cancel button. the simplest way would be to remove the [x] because it won't do what it should anyway.
12:40<ln->i use "anyway" too much anyway.
12:41<ln->popups are bad UI design.
12:42<skidd13>I'd prefer a clean solution. But I've to agree that a popup sucks
12:42<ln->and no other window gives you a popup after [x] either.
12:44<skidd13>But the ignore any changes if [x] is pressed is easy to get, but on the other hand it doesn't fit in the common style. Hmm. This needs some further thinkin
12:45<ln->remove [x], force the user to consciously choose cancel or save. problem solved. end of thinking.
12:45<Phazorx>is there an easy/hackish way to make a full minimap screenshot?
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12:52<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: hg/git.openttd.org seem to be stuck again. and is it deliberate that git://git.openttd.org/svn.git wasn't updated since weeks ago?
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13:34<TrueBrain>michi_cc: doing a manual update, it should tell me what is going wrong
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13:37<TrueBrain>error: bad ref for refs/remotes/0.4
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13:41<TrueBrain>error: unable to open object pack directory: .git/objects/pack: Too many open files
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13:41<TrueBrain>so that explains a few things :)
13:41|-|LeviathNL [~thomas@dhcp-077-251-137-010.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:42<LeviathNL>TrueBrain, http://svn.openttd.org/ does not update (again)
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13:48<+glx>LeviathNL: known
13:48<+glx>he is working on it
13:49<LeviathNL>ok, good work
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14:03<dihedral|afk>TrueBrain: thank you again for all the help support and work you offored and did...
14:03<dihedral|afk>:-)
14:03<Phazorx>yup, thanks TB
14:03<Phazorx>and i have a question btw
14:04<Phazorx>is there an easy/hackish way to make a full minimap screenshot?
14:11<SprudL>I'm confused.. should I enable npf and yapf in the patches or just one?
14:11<+glx>yapf override npf
14:12<LeviathNL>only yapf for roadvehicles, trains and airplanes(?), and npf for ships iirc
14:12<+glx>no, ships are slow with npf or yapf
14:13<+glx>s/are slow/slows the game/
14:13<SprudL>ships are slow indeed :)
14:14|-|Ammler|eating changed nick to Ammller
14:14<SprudL>thanks for the info
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14:50<TrueBrain>dihedral|away / Phazorx: it was my plesure :)
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14:57<fjb>Moin
14:58<fjb>Oh, I see a double Ammler. May I see a pink elephant soon?
14:59<ln->this is not an X-rated channel
15:00<fjb>Are pink elephants x-rated?
15:00<ln->anything that is pink.
15:01<fjb>Oh, I didn't know. Why is pink an allowed company color then? :-)
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15:03<fjb>Hm, pink airplanes are looking strange.
15:03<TrueBrain>as this is neither a X-rated game
15:03<TrueBrain>ln-: how is the profiling going?
15:04[~]fjb wants pink elephants in the game.
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15:06<ln->TrueBrain: i figured i should use some savegame that has enough tracks, if i build one line it's not very realistic load.
15:06<TrueBrain>use the wwottdgd one ;)
15:08<ln->i could try joining that...
15:08<TrueBrain>after join, the map is in save/autosave/networkclient.tmp
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15:09<TrueBrain>Farden: are you going tokeep on timing out?
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15:15<Farden123>the answer is : yes
15:15<hylje>:o
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15:15<TrueBrain>Farden: then it might be for the best to part from IRC channels for the time being
15:15<Farden>as long as I won't have my own connection, I won't be sure that it works
15:15<Farden>and it could be for months
15:16<TrueBrain>then you really have a sucky connection :p
15:16<Farden>but I don't want to stay offline for months^^
15:16<Farden>if a shared connection
15:16<Farden>with all my building
15:16<TrueBrain>then they should install a decent QoS :)
15:16<Farden>i've*
15:16<Farden>they are stupid
15:17<TrueBrain>I agree :)
15:17<Farden>i've ordered my own internet connection, but there are technical problems with the line
15:17<Farden>so i've got the modem, but the line is not working
15:17<TrueBrain>I hope you are not paying for it :)
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15:43<TrueBrain>General Notice: as summertime came to an end, the nightly is just finish compiling (1 hour earlier, for those who don't have summertime ;))
15:44<TrueBrain>michi_cc / LeviathNL: git problems fixed, slowly things are rebuilding now, but it takes for ever :)
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't it be "1 hour later"?
15:45<TrueBrain>depends on how you look at it :P
15:45<TrueBrain>you are right :)
15:46<+glx>anyway no changes for me ;)
15:55<fjb>Looking at the last comits: will we have rivers in the near future?
15:55<Phazorx>TrueBrain:/ glx anuy idea on a hack for full minimap screenshot?
15:56<TrueBrain>Phazorx: nope
15:56<+glx>same here
15:56<Phazorx>:(
15:56<Phazorx>it should be possible
15:56<Phazorx>since it has all the data and only display is limited
15:57<Phazorx>so same dieas as for global screen can be applied
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16:12[~]fjb likes the new bridges over almost everything feature.
16:29<TrueBrain>http://81.171.98.110:8084/ <- even faster :) (okay, I will stop posting this link :p)
16:31<hylje>fjb: there's a new new bridges?! :p
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16:34<fjb>:-)
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16:36<fjb>TrueBrain: cool. :-)
16:36<TrueBrain>fjb: tnx, I like it too ;)
16:37<@Bjarni>!logs
16:37<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
16:37<TrueBrain>Bjarni: try using BOOKMARK in your browser
16:38<@Bjarni>I have bookmarked it
16:38<@Bjarni>but this is faster :P
16:38<TrueBrain>so why bugging us all the time
16:38<TrueBrain>it is really annoying...
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16:41<TrueBrain>I should make a rule: if you look at my URL, you have to give your opinion :p
16:41<TrueBrain>mwhahaha :)
16:41<fjb>TrueBrain: What is that? An online landscape generator?
16:42<TrueBrain>no, fjb, that is a landscape :)
16:42<TrueBrain>in which you can move around
16:42<fjb>Can I build anithing there? :-)
16:42<TrueBrain>Not a thing
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16:43<fjb>:-(
16:43<fjb>:-)
16:43<TrueBrain>the map on the other hand is shared
16:43<TrueBrain>so if I would make a change, you would see it :p
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16:43<TrueBrain>just bandwidth seems to be a small problem... 1 click on the navigation is around 1kiB of data
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16:44<fjb>Hm, then the bandwidth problöem is not on my side. :-P
16:44<TrueBrain>the slowness is because currently the host is doing some compression :)
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16:46<TrueBrain>the thing is, each click I need to update 30 tiles with information (the image, their position)
16:46|-||Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
16:46<TrueBrain>this means many chars...
16:46<TrueBrain>and if I want clients to pre-cache, this would even increase...
16:47<fjb>Ok. What ist it good for?
16:47<TrueBrain>absolutely nothing
16:47<TrueBrain>I just like designing things people claim impossible :) Like a scrollable landscape in a browser, generated < 5ms :)
16:49<fjb>Oh. :-)
16:50<fjb>How about making signal on bridges or tunnel then? :-P
16:50<TrueBrain>not interested
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16:51<fjb>Ok. I just tried it.
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16:51<TrueBrain>378M hg/svn
16:51<TrueBrain>53M git/svn.git
16:51<TrueBrain>hehe
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16:56<TrueBrain>k, svn<->git bridge seems to be working again :)
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17:14<Phazorx>TrueBrain: can you take a look at this plz http://bugs.openttd.org/task/54
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17:14<Phazorx>i'm trying to get it to work to some degree with current trunk
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17:17<Wolf01>'night
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17:22<mikk36>"Each time you quit OpenTTD, it writes any changes to the file." <-- does it ?
17:24<mikk36>changing options during a game does not make them go to the conf any more ?
17:26|-|Ben_ changed nick to _Ben_
17:29<Maedhros>not during a game, no
17:29<Maedhros>only if you change them at the main menu
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17:40<Phazorx>NukeBuster: you are actualy one of maintainers for this one - what am i missing?
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18:08<Ammlller>Heya, what can be problem, if I have "Speicherzugriffsfehler"
18:09<Ammlller>segmentation fault ?
18:17<valhalla1w>Ammlller: that sounds like drive access error to me
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18:17<Ammlller>valhallasw: on a dedicated server
18:18<valhallasw>then why have you set your locale to german? :P
18:18<Ammlller>oh, I have to check the hd :)
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18:19<Ammlller>hmm 26% of 15 Gig used
18:19<Progman>its more like an memory error
18:19<valhallasw>my german is not that good
18:20<Ammlller>valhallasw: leo translated into segmentation fault
18:20<valhallasw>oh.
18:22<Sacro>Ammlller: can't you put it in English?
18:23<Ammlller>Sacro: segmentation fault
18:23<Sacro>Ammlller: i mean the server :p
18:24<Ammlller>switching locale?
18:26<Ammlller>seems, its the save
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>Ammlller: segmentation fault is when the program tries to access memory that it did not reserve before
18:49<Ammlller>Eddi|zuHause: strange was, it happens only with a special save
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>in C that often means array out of bound
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>or accessing a freed pointer
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>or wrong pointer arithmetics
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>i recently had one during an autosave
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>but i could not reproduce it
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>if you can reproduce it, a backtrace might help
18:52<@Bjarni>might?
18:52<@Bjarni>a backtrace always gives more info in a case like this
18:52<@Bjarni>like where in the code it fails
18:53<@Bjarni>the question is if you can make sense of why it fails at that function, but you will know where it fails
18:53<Ammlller>I have a save where it will happen...
18:53<@Bjarni>try it in a debug build
18:53<Ammlller>after unpausing in about 5 sec
18:53<Ammlller>also in SP
18:53<@Bjarni>that is if you know how to debug ;)
18:54<Ammlller>yeah, I should know... :)
18:54<Ammlller>but I am not pro of that...
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18:54<Ammlller>if I run it with -d it only exited, no message
18:54<@Bjarni>it takes very little skill to locate the line where an app crashes
18:54<Ammlller>but I do a debug compile
18:55<@Bjarni>I didn't say run it with debug output, but run it in a debugger
18:55<@Bjarni>there is a difference
18:55<Ammlller>you mean dbg?
18:55<@Bjarni>yeah that will do
18:56<@Bjarni>gdb is a debugger, but any debugger will do
18:56<@Bjarni>note: it helps to type the name correctly when starting it ;)
18:57<Ammlller>:)
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19:36<@Bjarni>Ammlller: any update on where it crashes?
19:37<Ammlller>oh, I had some other play with Osai^zZz, but he is now gone, I try it now
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19:46<Ammlller>Bjarni: http://paste.openttd.org/268
19:47<@Bjarni>hmm
19:48<@Bjarni>is v pointing to a sane vehicle?
19:49<Ammlller>well, I didn't use it more...
19:49<Ammlller>how to see such things
19:49<@Bjarni>maybe the data in v is saved incorrectly
19:49<@Bjarni>print *v
19:49<Ammlller>huw, big output
19:49<@Bjarni>I know
19:50<@Bjarni>look for out of place data in it
19:50<@Bjarni>but I'm just guessing
19:50<Ammlller>http://paste.openttd.org/269
19:51<Ammlller>the only diff between this save and the save we just played
19:51<Ammlller>is the new dutch tram set
19:51<@Bjarni>...
19:51<@Bjarni>what happened to: one var, one line ordering?
19:52<@Bjarni>this is damn hard to read :(
19:52<Ammlller>Bjarni: you have the grfpack already
19:52<Ammlller>you you like the save
19:52<Ammlller>it will fail by you too
19:53<Ammlller>it took now may 1min
19:53<Ammlller>but mostly it failed after 10sec
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19:54<fjb>Ammler: Do you use my patch for the dutch tram set?
19:54<@Bjarni>make a bug report and post the savegame with it
19:54<@Bjarni>I don't think I can solve this right away
19:54<Ammlller>:), no you are lucky
19:55<fjb>My early versions of that patch had some problems. But now they are fixed.
19:55<@Bjarni>all I can make out of this is that it checks some overtaking code for a tram and then it crashes
19:56<@Bjarni>it's road vehicle 177
19:56<Ammlller>maybe dutch trams does something new with articulated, what others don't?
19:56<@Bjarni>could be interesting to see what it's doing in the game when the game crashes
19:57<@Bjarni>I have no idea what the grf in question does or doesn't... you see I'm not a newGRF guru :/
19:57<Ammlller>fjb: do you know the dutch set well
19:58<fjb>The dutch tram set chould not touch road vehicle 177.
19:59<fjb>I don't know much about nfo. I just changed a few hex values. :-)
19:59<Ammlller>hmm, I didn't read it yet, but there is also a bug releated to ottd, split in the thread.
19:59<@Bjarni>at random?
19:59<@Bjarni>changing hex values at random could be... interesting
20:00<fjb>No, that is no bug in OpenTTD. It is a problem how road vehicles work in TTD.
20:00<@Bjarni>if you are lucky then you will gain an awesome new feature
20:00<@Bjarni>but odds are that it will not work
20:00<fjb>No, I think I knew what I did.
20:00<fjb>Some thinks I did wrong first. :-)
20:01<fjb>The dutch tram set and long vehicles 4 have somne problems with each other.
20:02<fjb>LV4 sets a multiplier for all costs. The trams get very expensiv. Some of the trams an some truck from LV4 are using the same vehicle id.
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>complete vehicle sets were never meant to be compatible with each other...
20:04<fjb>I made a patch for the nfo file of the tram set. The pacht divides all costs by the value George uses in his LV4 and I moved some trams to other ids.
20:04<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: I don't mind. I just did an awfull hack to make them compatible. :-)
20:04<Ammlller>yeah, Foobar said, he will make his set compatible with 4lv
20:05<fjb>I didn't want to wait that long. So I read a bit of the nfo documentation and got some hints from Dale Stan.
20:05<fjb>The trams are just too cute. I had to have them in the game. :-)
20:06<fjb>Now some people bug me to release the modified grf, but the licence forbids that.
20:06<Ammlller>just pm it
20:07<Ammlller>or ask foobar
20:07<Ammlller>I guess he would give you the permission until he has its own fix
20:08<fjb>Somebody in the german forum wantedt to change the grf. I told him what I had done and I released the diff of the nfo file. And I wrote a description how to patch the grf-. But the guy doesn't understand how to do it...
20:08<fjb>Pm ist kind of release, I guess.
20:09<Ammlller>hmm, distribute with grf and readme is allowed I thing
20:09<fjb>The funny thing is that the guy had the plan to manipulte the grf. And now he is unable to use the ready made kit. :-)
20:09<Ammlller>including it in the pack like #openttdcoop pack isn't
20:09<Ammlller>thats what I have done :)
20:10<Ammlller>but he gave me permission today...
20:10<fjb>The licence states:
20:10<fjb>This new grapics set is delivered 'as is' and comes without warranty of any kind.
20:10<fjb>This new grapics set is intended for personal use and may not be used for commercial purposes.
20:10<fjb>Use of (parts of) this new graphics set in other graphics sets is not allowed without prior written permission of the authors.
20:10<fjb>Third party distribution of this new graphics set is restricted to redistribution of the original package containing (and only containing) unmodified versions of dutrmsxx.grf, DutchTramSetW_rxx.grf and README.txt (this file).
20:10<fjb>Distribution in GRF Packages is not allowed without prior written permission of the authors.
20:11<Ammlller>a 2. last
20:11<fjb>Only the distribution of the unmodified grf is allowed.
20:11<Ammlller>ok
20:12<Ammlller>did he comment your patch?
20:12<fjb>I can only release the diff and tell the people how to aply that. And that is really easy.
20:12<fjb>No, didn't say anything about it.
20:12<Ammlller>but you could make the diff that it is useable with or without 4lv
20:12<fjb>But he must know about it. He wrote in both treads.
20:13<fjb>I could if I could. :-)
20:13<fjb>I just started to read the nfo documnetation yesterday.
20:13<Ammlller>imo, you can just add all your new lines to the end
20:14<fjb>I even don't know how to if LV4 is loaded yet.
20:14<Ammlller>and then make a break if 4lv not loaded
20:14<Ammlller>action 7
20:14<fjb>I only don't know if it is possible to move the ids or change the costs based on that.
20:15<fjb>I have toread more of the documentation.
20:15<Ammlller>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action7
20:15<fjb>I had some funny bugs yesterday. A tram pulling a truck trailer. :-)
20:16<fjb>I will enhace the patch the next days.
20:16<Ammlller>fjb: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Nothing.grf
20:16<fjb>It initially was just intended for me to have both sets in the game. :-)
20:16<Ammlller>nothing2.grf checkes if nothing.grf is loaded
20:17<fjb>Funny.
20:18<fjb>Ok.
20:18<Ammlller>:)
20:19<fjb>I should learn nfo aniway.
20:20<Ammlller>fjb: grf2html is also helpful
20:20<fjb>I didn't get it to compile with Free Pascal yet.
20:21<Ammlller>ah yeah, I recall
20:21<Ammlller>I have made HTML pages of all GRFs in the pack, if you are interested
20:21<fjb>Why do people always use strange things like Delphy or C++? :-)
20:22<fjb>Tat would really be interesting.
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>use brainfuck? :p
20:22<fjb>Oh no...
20:23<fjb>Everybody chases buffer overflows an segmantation faults. They would not happen with modern programming tools.
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20:24<Ammlller>But then we had still to play with 256 map
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20:24<fjb>Why that?
20:25<Ammlller>they use much more resources
20:25<Ammlller>?
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20:27<fjb>Not much.
20:27<fjb>They will never loose a pointer, so they will never loose some memory.
20:28<fjb>Try it with C. Make a loop, allocate memory and never free it. :-)
20:28<fjb>Try to do that with Eiffel. :-) :-)
20:29|-|Ammlller changed nick to I
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20:30|-|II changed nick to III
20:31<fjb>1, 2, 3,... :-)
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20:31|-|III changed nick to Ammler
20:32<Ammler>I & II have been registered
20:32<Ammler>but III is mine
20:32<fjb>:-)
20:33<Ammler>hmm
20:33|-|Ammler changed nick to l
20:34<fjb>People don't like diffs...
20:34|-|l changed nick to |
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20:35<fjb>Action 6 looks usefull.
20:35<]>How do you mean?
20:35|-|NuHoerAberMalAufMitDemBloedsin changed nick to Eddi|zuHause
20:35|-|] changed nick to Ammler
20:36<Ammler>ok :)
20:36<Eddi|zuHause>one letter short :p
20:36<Ammler>ist für den Gamerserver
20:36<fjb>Nobody did a download of my errorfree patch.
20:36<Ammler>fjb: das habe ich gesehen, das werde ich bestimmt ausprobieren
20:36<Ammler>wenn du bis dahin noch keine "unabhängige" version gemacht hast :)
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>this is still an english channel...
20:38<Ammler>oh sry
20:38<fjb>I knew somebody would say that. :-)
20:38<Ammler>was on a german channel...
20:38<fjb>I will work on a better version, but that will last some days.
20:38<fjb>or take some days
20:39<Ammler>but is nice, it was a german speaker who said it...
20:39<Ammler>same on coop, sometimes we are 3-4 germans and speak english
20:40<Ammler>thats why I like to fix the english flag
20:41<fjb>At least germans understand my german kind of english. :-)
20:41|-|Hendikins changed nick to Hendikins|Work
20:42<Ammler>in Australia is morning...
20:42<Ammler>they already began to work...
20:43<fjb>I didn't even begin to slepp.
20:44[~]AntB wonders what sleep is
20:44<fjb>Ants never sleep. :-)
20:44<AntB>:P
20:45<fjb>Does everybody write nfo files by hand?
20:47<AntB>no idea
20:49<fjb>I always wondered why it takes that long to enhace a grf. Now I know...
20:49<Ammler>fjb: mostly but with help of makefiles
20:49<Ammler>and maybe GRFMaker
20:49[~]AntB has never used a makefile (i think)
20:50<Ammler>hmm, me too
20:50<AntB>all i got is Notepad2, GRF Codec and NFO Renum
20:50<fjb>Hm, better use m4. :-)
20:50<AntB>NFO Renum not being as much help as i expected... but maybe thats due to my not knowing GRF too well
20:51<Ammler>Madhros published his dev pack for industrie Stations, maybe that shows you, how they do that...
20:51<fjb>Oh, where did he publish it?
20:51<Ammler>in the thread
20:52<Ammler>its one of the top threads in graphic atm
20:53<@Bjarni>Ammler: please post that savegame as a bug report
20:54<Ammler>oh, yeah I will
20:56<@Bjarni>lol, I just got an email with a subject about president Bush's visit to California... when I opened it (I really wondered what this was about) it was a standard viagra salesspeech
20:56<@Bjarni>now they are using Bush to sell viagra... how low can you go? :D
20:56<AntB>lol
20:57<fjb>:-)
20:57<fjb>Who reads things about Bush? :-)
20:57<fjb>Ammler: This thread? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27112&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=300
20:59<@Bjarni><fjb> Who reads things about Bush? :-) <-- some people voted for him. You know if just 5% of the people who voted for him might buy this based on this mail, then they will see to a few people for every 1000 mails they send
20:59<@Bjarni>which is fairly good for spam mail
20:59<@Bjarni>remember that they don't expect many people to reply to those mails
21:00<fjb>I know... Thats why they make big money even if less than one percent of the people buy it.
21:01<@Bjarni>it's crazy that anybody will buy what they sell
21:01<@Bjarni>there is a bash quote about a mail that sells penis enlargement pills for dogs
21:01<@Bjarni>wtf
21:01<fjb>:-)
21:01<AntB>lmao!
21:01<AntB>these guys will do anything for money :D
21:02<@Bjarni>I like the one I once got about radiation protection pills
21:02<AntB>ok... XD
21:03<fjb>The TTD world looks to be a very dangerous place. Every town builds a prison...
21:03<@Bjarni>according to that mail, the risk of a nuclear accident is extreme but the government is hiding that fact
21:03<fjb>Hey, I want that funny spam too. :-)
21:03<@Bjarni>and if it happens then everybody who didn't eat those pills will die
21:03<fjb>I only get the borng things. Or chinese spam...
21:04<@Bjarni>I get those too
21:04<@Bjarni>in fact my homemade spam filter catches more than 100 spam mails every single day
21:04<fjb>Maybe I should learn chinese. So I know if the chinese spam is more funny.
21:05<fjb>Thats a usual number.
21:05<@Bjarni>are you sure it's Chinese?
21:06<@Bjarni>can you prove that it isn't Japanese or Vietnamese?
21:06<@Bjarni>or something else like that
21:08<fjb>Hm, looks chinese.
21:08<AntB>Mandarin or Cantonese? :P
21:08<fjb>Japanese contains a bigger amout of simplified characters.
21:11<Ammler>Bjarni: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1376
21:12<fjb>I's nice to have a heliport next to my head quarter. So I can fly home later. :-9
21:12<Ammler>fjb: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=629337#p629337
21:13<Ammler>Bjarni: you can also load the save without dutchset, include it and wait
21:13<Ammler>it will happen
21:13<Ammler>and without it runs nice...
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21:17<|fjb|>Ammler: Thank you. I feel like being in the stone age of computer programming...
21:17|-|Thiniad [~Thiniad@dh207-20-124.xnet.hr] has joined #openttd
21:17<Ammler>:)
21:18<Ammler>I hope they will have public release of GRFMaker soon
21:19<|fjb|>GRFMaker look like Windows only.
21:19<Ammler>hmm, wine :)
21:19<|fjb|>Wine hates me. :-(
21:22<|fjb|>It always complains about missing libraries.
21:22<DaleStan>Wine and I have an agreement. I won't drink it, and it won't give me a hangover.
21:23|-|fjb [~frank@W8c3b.w.pppool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:23<Ammler>:)
21:23<|fjb|>:-)
21:23<|fjb|>DaleStan: Thak your for your help with grfcodec.
21:24<DaleStan>You're welcome. Sorry about the bug.
21:24<Ammler>DaleStan: possible that a GRF can make a secmentation fault?
21:24<Ammler>I have a save where I can include Dutch Tram an after about 30 sec the game crahes...
21:25<|fjb|>The version from svn works great.
21:25<|fjb|>Now I have to learn more nfo.
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21:26<DaleStan>Ammler: As far as I'm concerned, any crash is a bug, and should be reported.
21:26<Ammler>its already
21:27<|fjb|>The funny thing about Ammler's problem ist, that the suspicious vehicle number doesn't get accessed by the tram set grf.
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21:30<Ammler>good night all
21:30<fjb>Ammler: good night
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21:46<@Bjarni>goodnight
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22:45<DaleStan>Belugas, Maedhros: Action 7 var A1 docs still do not agree with example. Docs say "80000h is *added*". Example does not reflect this.
23:01<fjb>Good night
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 29 00:00:09 2007