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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-29

---Logopened Mon Oct 29 00:00:09 2007
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04:55<dihedral|work>mronin
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05:17<dihedral|work>did my mail actually get to the dev-maillist?
05:18<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: doubtful
05:18<dihedral|work>:-S
05:18<dihedral|work>why is that?
05:18<TrueBrain>the devlist was stopped long long ago
05:18<dihedral|work>great
05:18<TrueBrain>most because of the amount of spam
05:18<dihedral|work>bjarni told me the other day to send an email to it
05:18<TrueBrain>then bjarni is an idiot
05:19<dihedral|work>lol
05:19<TrueBrain>that shouldn't come as a suprise :p
05:19<dihedral|work>lol
05:19<TrueBrain>(kidding :))
05:19|-|bluebear__ [~chatzilla@cmnz-4db3017f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
05:19<dihedral|work>he also said that it had been very quite for some time :-D
05:19<TrueBrain>yeah, as I made it a /dev/null
05:19<dihedral|work>lol
05:19<dihedral|work>dev-null@...
05:20<dihedral|work>well
05:20<dihedral|work>we were wondering if you could cname worldwide.openttd.org :-D
05:20<dihedral|work>"you" (the dev's)
05:21<TrueBrain>email me (truelight@) with a GOOD reasoning why that should be done
05:21<TrueBrain>CNames btw are totally out of the question
05:21<dihedral|work>why?
05:21<TrueBrain>(okay, those 2 lines are confusing :p)
05:21<TrueBrain>we want quality control over openttd.org subdomains
05:21<dihedral|work>ah
05:21<dihedral|work>ok
05:21<TrueBrain>so long ago we said: no redirects, no cnames
05:21<dihedral|work>makes sense
05:21<dihedral|work>100% understand that :-P
05:21<TrueBrain>say we do that, you dislike us, you put on it: YOU SUCK! :p
05:22<TrueBrain>nah, that was a joke :) The problem is, the questions people have
05:22<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: we would never :-) you should at least know that by now
05:22<TrueBrain>currently we control ALL subdomains :)
05:22<dihedral|work>yes
05:22<TrueBrain>I do, as said, was a joke ;)
05:22<dihedral|work>you beat me to it with that line
05:22<dihedral|work>:-)
05:22<Tefad_>grfs really break things
05:22<Tefad_>such as.. sound?
05:23<dihedral|work>nope
05:23<TrueBrain>Tefad_: it also adds things
05:23<TrueBrain>so I think it is a good 50-50 :)
05:23<Tefad_>it makes the clang clang sounds in the title sound like really loud farts
05:23<dihedral|work>lol
05:23<Tefad_>yeah. i guess i'm getting the bad 50.
05:24<TrueBrain>I always start openttd with -snull
05:24<Tefad_>heh
05:24<TrueBrain>so I truly wouldn't know how it is supposed to sound :)
05:24<Tefad_>aren't you a dev
05:24<TrueBrain>dunno, you tell me?
05:24<Tefad_>cocks to you, sir.
05:24<TrueBrain>I realyl don't know
05:25<TrueBrain>anyway, Tefad_, make a bug-report out of it
05:25<Tefad_>i think i remember reading your handle in the data that gets spewed by svnup.sh
05:25|-|phao [phao@201.19.154.218] has joined #openttd
05:25<Tefad_>the problem is, i don't know what's causing it
05:25<Tefad_>i'm trying out ottdc's grfpack
05:25<phao>where do i get TTD ?
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05:26<TrueBrain>phao: www.openttd.org (who would have guessed)
05:26<Tefad_>and like an idiot i'm throwing them all in there and crossing fingers with horrible luck
05:26<Tefad_>well, that's where you get openttd
05:26<TrueBrain>Tefad_: don't you find the sounds annoying after a short while? In general?
05:26<Tefad_>though i'm sure if you look hard enough..
05:26<phao>TrueBrain i've dwonload openttd there, but when i install it asks for TTD directory.
05:26<TrueBrain>phao: which, as the documents state, you need
05:26<TrueBrain>to own, like buy, in a real shop
05:26<Tefad_>TrueBrain: i grew up with them, they're almost comforting
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05:27<Tefad_>however yes, the clanging and the like get annoying after some time
05:28<phao>ok
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05:32<Tefad_>however yes, the clanging and the like get annoying after some time
05:32<Tefad_>er.
05:32<Tefad_>bad window.
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05:34<TrueBrain>at least you make full english sentences in wrong windows
05:34<TrueBrain>I always have things like:
05:34<TrueBrain>ls
05:34<TrueBrain>top
05:34<TrueBrain>:p
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05:34<Tefad_>i hit up then enter . .
05:34<Tefad_>i was going for "./openttd" but that came out
05:34<TrueBrain>hehe :)
05:34<TrueBrain>so you are not that different ;)
05:35<Tefad_>ok it's a really bitchy problem
05:35<Tefad_>it seems to only happen when N grfs are loaded
05:35<Tefad_>and N might be a variable
05:35<Tefad_>or some combination of grfs.
05:35<Tefad_>it doesn't seem to be a specific grf.
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05:36<Tefad_>hah, if i load N+1 i get a straight segfault
05:37<TrueBrain>see, that is useful :)
05:37<TrueBrain>run a gdb over it ;)
05:37<Tefad_>ugh man
05:37<Tefad_>yeah, so far its N is fine, N+1 causes sound screwups, and N+2 causes segfault
05:37<Tefad_>wooo.
05:38<Tefad_>and i tried with some variations of grfs
05:38<LeviathNL>I had the same problem a couple of times, I also could not find the cause of the problem
05:39<Tefad_>N = 47 presently
05:40<Tefad_>wow don't have gdb.
05:41<Tefad_>been a while.
05:42<blathijs>Sounds like a buffer overflow somewhere...
05:42<Tefad_>that's my guess
05:42<LeviathNL>ok now i have also 'activated' the sound issue
05:42<blathijs>Since the sound subsystem uses malloc/free _a lot_ that's where buffer overflows get "detected" first
05:42<Tefad_>fart-tastic.
05:42<LeviathNL>46 grf's
05:43<Tefad_>that causes the sound problems?
05:43<LeviathNL>can we help by running ottd in debug mode?
05:44<Tefad_>i had no idea gdb was such a huge project.
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05:44<Tefad_>if i'm not mistaken, a full PC emulator has less baggage.
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05:47<LeviathNL>what is gdb ?
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05:48<blathijs>LeviathNL: A debugging program
05:49<blathijs>LeviathNL: But I don't think there is anything you can do to help out
05:49<blathijs>If someone would file a bug report, that would help though
05:49<blathijs>(First check if this bug hasn't been reported yet)
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05:56<LeviathNL>Tefad_, is this the same segfault you're experiencing? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1376
05:57<Tefad_>huh?
05:57<Tefad_>all i'm doing is starting the program
05:58<Tefad_>*boom* instant segfault
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06:03<Celestar>morning
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06:04<Ammler>morning all
06:05<Ammler>Tefad_: but you don't have any GRFs loaded?
06:05<Tefad_>i get corrupt sound with 48 loaded, segfault with 49
06:06<Tefad_>i don't molest the UI at all
06:06<Tefad_>i add/remove via cfg file
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06:11<LeviathNL>flyspray task added, Tefad_ can you add your openttd.cfg?
06:16<Tefad_>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/downloads/grfpacks/ottdc_grfpack.cfg those are the grf's i'm playing with
06:16<Ammler>hmm. all?
06:17<Ammler>some needs to be loaded exlusive
06:17<Tefad_>still shouldn't cause segfaults
06:18<Ammler>this cfg is only meant as template, you need to comment out grfs from same type.
06:18<Ammler>I had a segfault because of using dutch tramset on a existing map.
06:18<Tefad_>as obviously there are users stupid enough out there to try it.
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06:19<Tefad_>when i play openttd i do it more to try to break it than to have "fun"
06:19<Tefad_>though i end up having fun while trying to break it ; )
06:20<Tefad_>like last night i had over 1000 road vehicles doing crazy things
06:20<Tefad_>hardly using any CPU too
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06:26<Gekz>Please to be having Vista.
06:26<Gekz>LOL, I hate Vista so much, and I haven't used it -_-
06:27<Gekz>Anyone using it?
06:29<Ammler>I used "native" windows much more before I got a pc with vista, now I can't remember last time I booted windows
06:30<Ammler>(Somtimes I use windows with VirtualBox.)
06:30<Ammler>but thats XP of course
06:31<Tefad_>i haven't had a windows install since august 2004 (or was it 2003)
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06:36<LeviathNL>Just to be sure i'm not the only one, the ECS Town vector Beta 3 Industries do not accept or generate anything? (You can't build a station/stop to pick/drop something)?
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06:50<@Belugas>[22:47] <DaleStan> Belugas, Maedhros: Action 7 var A1 docs still do not agree with example. Docs say "80000h is *added*". Example does not reflect this. <--- ok, noted. sorry for dealy, forgot :S
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09:30|-|mode/#openttd [+v _42_] by Belugas
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10:07<@Belugas>Dalestan, done for action 7/9. Hope it fits better
10:16[~]dihedral|work greets Belugas
10:17[~]Belugas salutes dihedral|work
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10:20<denny577>hi everyone
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10:45<pv2b>is it just something with me, or is the openttd metaserver down?
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10:54<@Rubidium>pv2b: looks like it
10:54<pv2b>www.openttd.org/servers.php kinda works though
10:55<@Rubidium>TrueBrain's gone too, so that's a bad signs as the bouncer runs on the same server IIRC
10:55<@Rubidium>pv2b: two distinct servers
10:55<pv2b>where does the php get its data?
10:55<+glx>in a DB
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10:56<hylje>the grammar!
10:56<pv2b>glx: and where does that db get its data? :-)
10:56<dihedral|work>the master server?
10:56<pv2b>which is down.
10:56<dihedral|work>where does the master server get it's data from?
10:57<pv2b>servers tell them they're online.
10:57<pv2b>s/them/the master server/
10:57[~]dihedral|work pats pv2b on the back
10:57<dihedral|work>well done :-D
10:57<pv2b>ah, it would make sense if the DB cached responses from the master server periodically.
10:58<pv2b>instead of grabbing new data from the master server on each page load.
10:58<dihedral|work>the db does not grab data
10:58<pv2b>instead of the php script grabbing new data.
10:58<dihedral|work>:-)
10:58<dihedral|work>the php script grabbes the data from the db - which is sort of a cache
10:59<dihedral|work>you basically want a redundant master server?
10:59<@Rubidium>uhmmm...
10:59<pv2b>i don't want anything, i was just curious to why servers.openttd.org showed data when the master server was dow
11:00<@Rubidium>the masterserver receives "new" servers from the actual game servers, which the masterserver then puts in a DB
11:00<dihedral|work>refresh your page...?
11:00<pv2b>it loads pretty slow though.
11:00<@Rubidium>the websites gets the data directly from that DB
11:00<pv2b>Rubidium: ah, that makes sense.
11:00<dihedral|work>pv2b: clear your browsers cache and try again :-D
11:00<pv2b>it loads about half the time for me
11:00<@Rubidium>and there's a second process that periodically checks whether the servers are still online *and* fills the database with actual useable information (like game date, version, GRF, etc).
11:02<dihedral|work>Rubidium: the prob btw with that assertion we had on sat
11:02<pv2b>dihedral|work: i tried with wget (Which to my knowledge uses no cache) and it loads some of the time -- sometimes it just times out tho.
11:02<@Rubidium>the masterserver itself does virtually nothing but queueing the new servers for a visit by the previously mentioned "update" process.
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11:03<@Rubidium>oh... and sending IPs to clients that get a list of servers
11:03<TrueBrain>via a cache ;)
11:03<dihedral|work>it came from both SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO
11:03<pv2b>doesn't openttd itself gets it metadata direct from the running servers though, rather than said database?
11:04<dihedral|work>so i removed the code that was informing the lobby of any clients in the companies or spectators
11:04<dihedral|work>and all was fine
11:05<dihedral|work>so i thought of something
11:05<dihedral|work>including sequence numbers in the packet
11:06<dihedral|work>so you would have [packetsize][packettype][sequencenumber] at the beginning of each packet
11:06<dihedral|work>and [nextsequencenumber] at the end of each packet
11:06<dihedral|work>if next sq > sq then data is following in the next packet
11:06<@Rubidium>dihedral|work: happy (re)writing TCP with resends and assembling and such...
11:07<dihedral|work>and rather than processing the packets and all data in them at the same time
11:07<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: there are easier ways... like a simple bit that says: expect an other packet of this type
11:07<TrueBrain>or better: put in the first packet the length
11:07<dihedral|work>:-)
11:07<TrueBrain>pv2b: it needs to know which servers to contact directly ;)
11:07<dihedral|work>well - basically anything that allows spreading data over multiple packets
11:08<TrueBrain>sequence numbers is stupid
11:08<TrueBrain>TCP takes care of that
11:08<TrueBrain>your are 100.00000% sure packets arrive in order of sending
11:08<pv2b>TrueBrain: unless there is data corruption that the CRC doesn't pick up.
11:08<pv2b>pretty unlikely though :-)
11:08<TrueBrain>pv2b: still the packets are in order
11:09<pv2b>TrueBrain: not if the packet sequence numbers were corrupted.
11:09<TrueBrain>they might contains garbage, but they are in order :)
11:09<dihedral|work>:-)
11:09<TrueBrain>pv2b: then it re-requests the packet
11:09<TrueBrain>as the seq number isn't correct :)
11:09<pv2b>TrueBrain: not if the corruption means the sequence number was accidentally correct ;-)
11:10<pv2b>but for a different packet.
11:10<dihedral|work>that is what i was thinking of
11:10<TrueBrain>lol! That chance is like... 0.000000000 :)
11:10[~]Rubidium thinks dihedral|work has absolutely no idea what the reason is why UDP is used for the game query-like commands and not TCP
11:10<dihedral|work>tcp sequence numbers
11:10<dihedral|work>and i was thinking
11:10<@Rubidium>and has absolutely no idea how many packets get lost
11:10<TrueBrain>pv2b: but okay, it _can_ happen :) In VERY rare situations :p Lol :)
11:10<dihedral|work>Rubidium: i know tcp and udp differences
11:10<pv2b>TrueBrain: i'd have to calcualte whether it actually is imporibable enough to round to 0.0000000% ... after all 100.0% can be less than 100% :-)
11:11<dihedral|work>what i do not understand is
11:11<TrueBrain>CRC check needs not to detect the sequence corruption, and the sequence need to fit in perfectly in the sequence of an existing flow :)
11:11<dihedral|work>why put more importance on getting all data into one packet
11:11<dihedral|work>rather tahn getting data to the client
11:11<TrueBrain>pv2b: but nothing can be more than 100.000000000000000<..>%
11:11<DaleStan>Belugas: Example and documentation still don't match. "Bit 19 is set" does not imply that the other 19 bits get cleared. If that is what happens, you need to say "80000h is used instead". If that is not what happens, then the example needs to reflect the fact that the low bits contain a non-zero value.
11:12<pv2b>wouldn't it be cool if every single openttd server ran as a master server. problem is, you couldn't be certain the list is accurate. instead of trusting the openttdm aster server, you trust some random person.
11:12<dihedral|work>imo, trying to squish all company data and all clients data in one single packet
11:12<TrueBrain>pv2b: and: where to find all those master servers? :)
11:12<dihedral|work>just makes no sense
11:13<pv2b>TrueBrain: cache from a previous session.
11:13<+glx>dihedral|work: you can try to do it like newgrf data packet
11:13<@Rubidium>dihedral|work: then what do you want from us?
11:13<TrueBrain>pv2b: so I am a new client, where to find a masterserver? :)
11:13<dihedral|work>Rubidium: distribution of data over multiple packets
11:13<pv2b>TrueBrain: the master server would still exist, but mainly just to bootstrap that client list. so i'd be able to connect somewhere now, so would most other people.
11:13<@Rubidium>a) make the openttd pre-game-network protocol about a factor 100 more complex due to retransmission and such
11:14<dihedral|work>Rubidium: games have asserted because of it
11:14<TrueBrain>pv2b: but okay, as you said, means trusting random people ;)
11:14<@Rubidium>b) use TCP and make it impossible to run a server for more than an hour under Windows because then it can't accept any new TCP connections?
11:14<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: no, the game asserted because you tried to have 55 clients in one server, while official we advise you to use just 11 :)
11:14<pv2b>TrueBrain: though that wouldn't really be a big problem. worst that can happen is they get some ip address to some server that isn't actually an openttd server -- and then they just don't get any response back
11:15<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: the game asserted BEFORE even 12 clients were in the game
11:15<dihedral|work>and they were ALL spectating at the time of assertion
11:15<TrueBrain>pv2b: or they find a leak in the code, and can exploit all running OpenTTD clients ;)
11:15<TrueBrain>spectators are also clients
11:15<pv2b>which they can do anyway with the current master server :-)
11:15<TrueBrain>pv2b: no, as we protect that :)
11:15<TrueBrain>a client-side exploit can't be abused :)
11:16<pv2b>just make a server which responds maliciously to a SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO
11:16<TrueBrain>in worst case, only by a game-server you join :)
11:16<TrueBrain>pv2b: okay, that is true :)
11:16<TrueBrain>but in theory, we could make the MasterServer filter those servers :)
11:16<dihedral|work>i am happy to do the work with rewriting the network part
11:17<dihedral|work>just would like your thoughts towards it
11:17<pv2b>TrueBrain: what if the exploit returns innocent data to the master server when it asks for SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO, but malicious informatio nto any one else?
11:17<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: I think, just a thought, you just received them
11:17<dihedral|work>i.e. me wrapping stuff with sq numbers
11:17<dihedral|work>lol
11:17<TrueBrain>and I think it was like: BAD BAD BAD BAD idea
11:17<TrueBrain>so I hope this statement makes it a bit more clear what the thoughts towards it are
11:17<TrueBrain>pv2b: you win :)
11:17<dihedral|work>then how would you want to go around removing all these assertions?
11:17<TrueBrain>ha, I know thatone :) Not!
11:17<TrueBrain>and keep 11 clients :)
11:18<dihedral|work>lol
11:18<dihedral|work>coop asserted in the same way before
11:18<+glx>but maybe something like newgrf packets could work
11:18<dihedral|work>and they do not have that many clients
11:18<TrueBrain>show me a trunk way that asserts on it, and we will look into it
11:18<TrueBrain>glx: for UDP, indeed
11:18<TrueBrain>send each company in a seperate packet
11:18<dihedral|work>like i said TrueBrain
11:18<TrueBrain>if it arrives, it arrives
11:18<TrueBrain>if not, then not
11:18<dihedral|work>coop has already had asserts
11:18<TrueBrain>but I personally dislike it
11:19<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: and as I said:
11:19<TrueBrain>show me a trunk way that asserts on it, and we will look into it
11:19<pv2b>TrueBrain: so really, the only bad thing about letting every random server being a master server would be the potential of a few thousand (how many openttd users are tehre?) users sending unsolicited SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO messages to people not running serverrs.
11:19<TrueBrain>pv2b: yup! Still, not worth the effort :)
11:20<TrueBrain>the MS has an uptime of 99.97% last time I checked
11:20<+glx>and you still can play without MS
11:20<TrueBrain>and that allows us to have a servers.openttd.org, and keep track of things :)
11:20<+glx>but you need to know IP and ports
11:22<TrueBrain>which you can get via servers.openttd.org ;) Lol :)
11:23<dihedral|work>Truebrain: 16:20 <+glx> and you still can play without MS
11:23<TrueBrain>(the chance the MS is down, and the http is up, is very slim :))
11:23<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: you can read! I am impressed!
11:23<pv2b>i've had a thought earlier by the way to make some kind of third party server browser, that lets you search for different cool stuff - like players on certain servers, or even patch settings.
11:24<TrueBrain>pv2b: we wanted to add the first in the MS long long ago
11:24<TrueBrain>in fact, it was for a while
11:24<pv2b>i wonder though -- is it possible to get for example patch information without having to log in as a spec on every server?
11:24<TrueBrain>but it was a bit more tricky, so removed :)
11:24<pv2b>actually, even getting it without having to download the map.
11:24<TrueBrain>pv2b: currently, no
11:24<TrueBrain>but of course one can make a new packet for it
11:24<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: tell me, servers. can show ip's and ports of servers that are not advertised?
11:24<dihedral|work>or started servers while MS is down?
11:25<pv2b>TrueBrain: new packet isn't neccessary... TCP to gather that specific information should be enough really.
11:25<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: we were talking about the case the MS goes down; the http uses the 'cache' data, so it will show servers for a while
11:25<TrueBrain>pv2b: which would mean a new packet :)
11:25<pv2b>how is the patch information transmitted now anyway? is it part of the map data?
11:26<TrueBrain>yup
11:26<pv2b>what about patch changes?
11:26<TrueBrain>via DoCommands
11:26<pv2b>ok. is the patch data transmitted close to the beginning of the map data at least? :-)
11:27<TrueBrain>undefined
11:27<pv2b>ok. i'm going to have to take a look at the openttd network code - see if it's worth the effort.
11:29<pv2b>guess what. the svn is down. :-)
11:29<TrueBrain>no it isn't :)
11:30<pv2b>pvz-powerbook:~/src/openttd pvz$ svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
11:30<pv2b>svn: Kan inte ansluta till värden "svn.openttd.org": Operation timed out
11:30<TrueBrain>blame your ISP :)
11:31<pv2b>new dns entry?
11:31<TrueBrain>nope
11:31<TrueBrain>on the server end, everything is green
11:31<TrueBrain>but okay, fair enough, there seem to be some routing issues :)
11:31<pv2b>PING master.openttd.org (81.171.98.111): 56 data bytes
11:31<pv2b>64 bytes from 81.171.98.111: icmp_seq=0 ttl=49 time=33.011 ms
11:31<pv2b>not routing
11:32<pv2b>icmp is getting through at least.
11:32<TrueBrain>svn info svn://svn.openttd.org
11:32<TrueBrain>Path: svn.openttd.org
11:32<TrueBrain>So svn is really working :p
11:32<pv2b>that's strange. svn info works. svn co doesn't.
11:33<TrueBrain>$ svn update
11:33<TrueBrain>U os/debian/changelog
11:33<TrueBrain>:)
11:35<TrueBrain>funny, a minor amount of people complain they can't reach it, but the bandwidth statistics don't show anything abnormal :)
11:36<pv2b>something is strange, though i'm beyond blaming the svn for being down right now.
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11:38<pv2b>TrueBrain: maybe because you have an svn account, and, i guess, are using something like svn over ssh.
11:39<pv2b>i'm just using it as an anonymous user. and yeah, i checked that the SVN_RSH variable is clear.
11:39<TrueBrain>no svn over ssh
11:40<pv2b>or maybe the version of svn that comes with os x is a lemon. i'm going to try from another version on a linux machine i have here.
11:40<TrueBrain>pv2b: also, you might just try it in, say, 10 minutes
11:40<TrueBrain>it wouldn't be a suprise if then it would work :)
11:41<TrueBrain>as if 'svn info' works, it is silly 'svn checkout' gives a time out error..
11:41<TrueBrain>anyway, bbl
11:42<TrueBrain>pv2b: let me know in 30 min if you still haven't fixed it ;)
11:42<pv2b>i will.
11:47<pv2b>now not even svn info is working.
11:47<pv2b>it might be because i'm getting high packet loss though.
11:47<pv2b>to just that server.
11:49<pv2b>ah, svn info works, but only intermittently. yeah. probably a network issue.
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12:05<TrueBrain>pv2b: still having problems?
12:05<pv2b>nope, it's working now
12:05<pv2b>must have been some kind of network issue as you said.
12:05<TrueBrain>so indeed routing problems :)
12:05<TrueBrain>it happens
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>wtf...
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i got an email from ebay
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>... it's in spanish
12:06<pv2b>you sure it's not a phish?
12:06<TrueBrain>well.. maybe it is fake :)
12:06|-|Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-126-64.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
12:06<TrueBrain>and there is Farden again with his endless joins and leaves
12:07<Eddi|zuHause2>it does start with a line like "by giving your real name we prove that this is not spam"
12:07<pv2b>and is tat your real name?
12:07<TrueBrain>and that isn't in your email when you sent someone a mail? :)
12:07<Eddi|zuHause2>yes
12:08<pv2b>also i'm pretty sure ebay doesn't use your real name, they use something else to prove real e-mails.
12:08<TrueBrain>like links that really go to ebay ;)
12:08<pv2b>realnames are easy to snoop from address books.
12:08<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i'm gonna look up some real ebay mails
12:10<huma>Eddi|zuHause2: does it say something like "enlargo el peniso"? :)
12:10<Eddi|zuHause2>more like "MARATÓN VENDEDOR DE EBAY"
12:11<Eddi|zuHause2>and the links all start with "rover.ebay.com"
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12:11<pv2b>do they actually start with that or do they just appear to?
12:12<pv2b>my last legit email from ebay is from 2005... so i can't really help you.
12:12<pv2b>it was in german, incidentally :-)
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12:13<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a text message, there is not much to fake about links :p
12:13<pv2b>is it actually a text message or does it masquerade as being a text message? ;-)
12:14<Brianetta>eBay messages appear in My Messages when you log in to eBay
12:14<Brianetta>If it's not there when you log in, they didn't send it.
12:15<Eddi|zuHause2>it has a text and a html part
12:15<Eddi|zuHause2>like all other ebay messages i ever got
12:15<Eddi|zuHause2>apart from it being in spanish, it looks genuine...
12:16<Brianetta>well, log in and see!
12:16<Brianetta>Delete the email, and read it ont he web site
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12:18[~]dihedral|work greets skidd13
12:19<skidd13>Hi
12:20|-|prakti [~prakti@dhcp-73-198.uni-paderborn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:22<skidd13>Has anyone of the devs read the recent posts of FS1341 ?
12:23<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i got to go now
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12:54<Digitalfox>Could someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? :\
12:54<Digitalfox>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34668
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12:58<mcbane>Roujin answered
13:00<Digitalfox>yes mcbane, i now posted a new order is it correct now?
13:04|-|dihedral|work changed nick to dihedral|away
13:04<mcbane>town,basic, chemical,machine woood,construction,agricultur
13:05<Digitalfox>Are you sure thats a better order?
13:05<Digitalfox>Or the order isn't important/doesn't make difference?
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13:08<mcbane>it do
13:09<mcbane>i have 28 insdustries.
13:10|-|Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-109-253.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
13:11<mcbane>but i cant get ecd and town replacement work together.
13:11<mcbane>*ecs
13:13<mcbane>hmm wiki sais there is no needed order..
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13:15<Digitalfox>Well it seems TTRS must be in the end
13:16<Digitalfox>since i now have petrol stations working
13:17<mcbane>i have it in the end and it gets disabled. when i have it after esc vector grfs i get only tourist center and bank..
13:18<Digitalfox>Well in my topic that order seems to work well
13:19<mcbane>town ned to be in first place adn i get 32 insustries
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13:19<mcbane>heh
13:21<mcbane>ok it works with ttrs and now i have 34 industries.
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13:29<BiA|pavel-css>i have a prob :( ... in my built ottd, there is a 50% chance that, you will get desync in multyplayer when bu try to built a industry :( any suggests? :/
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13:30<fjb>Moin
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13:32<Wolf01>hello
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13:35<fjb>Hello Wolf
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13:56<LeviathNL>Wolf01, I stumbled upon this site: http://returntoblockland.com/ . It comes with some very interesting graphics (look for the data-map). I'm not sure if you can use it, you should ask the creators of the mod. download -> http://www.xs4all.nl/~eddykui/RTB1045full.exe
14:01<Wolf01>uhm, i prefer to use my own skill(z) to make "teh brickland climate" instead of grabbing the sprites around ;)
14:02<LeviathNL>just some inspiration :)
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14:07<Ammller>back
14:07<Ammller>dihedral, still testing?
14:08<dihedral>yes
14:10<BiA|pavel-css>what r u testing dihedral?
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14:24<dihedral>TrueBrain and Rubidium: i just did a test, with maxing out company names and client names (11 clients)
14:24<dihedral>it did not assert
14:24<dihedral>:-(
14:24<dihedral>just wanted to let you know that i at least tried :-D
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14:25<fjb>Moin. :-)
14:28<LordAzamath>@dihedral.. any chance of you guys needing some additional grfs for 2WWOTTDGD? :D I just started to like pixel-drawing :D
14:28<LordAzamath>..and have some WIP's already :D
14:28<dihedral>pretty good chance
14:29<LordAzamath>that's good
14:29<dihedral>just at the moment we are still needing our rest
14:29<dihedral>:-)
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14:30<LordAzamath>=)
14:30<dihedral>i am still k.o.
14:30<LordAzamath>that's good
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14:32[~]dihedral greets Brianetta
14:32<LordAzamath>anyway, if I complete something interesting, I'll let you guys know..maybe..it will get a good use :D
14:38<Brianetta>hi Diabolic-Angel
14:38<Brianetta>er
14:38<Brianetta>hi dihedral
14:38<Ammller>ah, thats the source of the name? :)$
14:38<dihedral>??
14:41<dihedral>how is the unique_id or network_id generated?
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14:43<Wolf01>is ((sacro's birth date + real name) rot13) base 64 encoded
14:43<dihedral>no
14:43<dihedral>i am asking seriously
14:44<dihedral>because i deleted it from my config
14:44<dihedral>and got the same one back again
14:44|-|Maedhros [~jc@host86-136-160-233.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
14:45<Wolf01>Maedhros knows it, don't you, Maedhros?
14:46<Maedhros>probably
14:46<Maedhros>what do i know, though? :p
14:46<Wolf01>the mistery of [19:41:55] <dihedral> how is the unique_id or network_id generated?
14:46<dihedral>how the _network_unique_id is generated
14:47<Maedhros>ah, in that case, i don't have a clue ;)
14:49<LordAzamath>usual...
14:49<Maedhros>well, a couple of seconds of grepping has given me NetworkGenerateUniqueId()
14:49<Maedhros>which is an md5 hash of Random() + "OpenTTD Unique ID"
14:50<dihedral>and...
14:50<dihedral>how on earth can that then give me the same id twice?
14:51<dihedral>i mean - removing it from the config file should be enough to get it generated again right?
14:52<Maedhros>did you do anything between deleting it and getting it regenerated? start a new game, play for a while, anything?
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14:53<dihedral>i quit the game, removed the line from cfg, saved, started openttd, joined a test server
14:53<dihedral>opened the cfg
14:53<dihedral>and back it was
14:55<TinoDidriksen>Maybe the random part isn't seeded properly.
14:56<TrueBrain>dihedral: that's why I say: in trunk it doesn't happen as far as I can tell, and if so, I like ot know ;)
14:56<dihedral>:-)
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15:13<Maedhros>Ammller: (re: bug 1376) did you load the dutch tramset into an existing game?
15:13<Ammller>YES
15:13<Maedhros>because you now have a road vehicle in a loading bay that thinks it's a tram
15:13<Ammller>sorry for caps look :)
15:14<Maedhros>which causes the segfault when it starts moving
15:14<LeviathNL>r11353 does not clone orders while if you clone with ctrl pressed
15:14<Maedhros>(tile 15183, by the way)
15:14<Maedhros>and the newgrf window popup does say quite clearly that making changes to a running game can cause crashes :p
15:15<Ammller>oh, never mind, I know, its a bad idea :)
15:15<Maedhros>yeah, just a bit :p
15:16<Ammller>so, if you like to insert a set in a running game, you could send them all to depot
15:16<Ammller>and then inserting the set, that should work, shouldn't?
15:17<Maedhros>it might, but it's still a pretty big risk
15:17<Ammller>so, you close the task with pointing to not doing it?
15:18<Maedhros>yup
15:18<Ammller>its ok with me, I thought, its bad, now I know :)
15:22<fjb>I guess Ammler's problem was my fault. :-(
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15:23<Ammller>fjb: nay, I said you already, didn't use your patch...
15:23<Ammller>maybe with your patch it would work :)
15:25<fjb>With the latest version it will work.
15:26<fjb>I had abroken version that gave me a tram with a truck trailer. That combination crashed the game when it tried to enter the tram depot. But that was a bad combination anyway. :-)
15:27<fjb>I feel like a computer caveman while editing nfo files.
15:27<LordAzamath>BUGGER...BUGGER!
15:27[~]LordAzamath comes flying
15:27<dihedral>LordAzamath: make a MacDonalds GRF :-D
15:28<LordAzamath>ok
15:28<dihedral>lol
15:28<LordAzamath>but I want to say about a bug first
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15:28<dihedral>replace shopping center
15:28<LordAzamath>Pavel found it
15:28<LordAzamath>yes, yes...but wait
15:28<LordAzamath>:D
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15:28<Sionide>McDonalds
15:29<Ammller>dihedral / LordAzamath thats already done...
15:29<dihedral>:-S
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15:29<LordAzamath>If you join a MP game, get into a company and try to fund industry..game desyncs for client
15:29<LordAzamath>but not for server
15:29<LordAzamath>I just tried it
15:29<Ammller>yes, we can approve that too
15:30<Ammller>just happen on our server too
15:30<LordAzamath>and it's present in your WWOTTDGD bin too
15:30<Ammller>hmm, don't hunt bug in WWOTTDGD bin
15:30<LordAzamath>:D
15:30<dihedral>yes
15:30<LordAzamath>I just didn't have newer one
15:31<LordAzamath>but it "works" in all later nightlys
15:31<LordAzamath>Pavel tested it
15:31<Wolf01>bah.. 512t of coal (64% transported), purchased 10 new trucks -> 352t of coal (76% transported)
15:32<LordAzamath>I now have a newer one..going to test it again :D
15:32<fjb>Where are the coal trams? :-)
15:32<Wolf01>i played too much ottd, i keep pressed the tab key to accelerate the time you take to answer me
15:33[~]fjb always does a right click to move the content of a window.
15:37<LordAzamath>ok.... if server makes new industries, clients desyncs... tested with 11353. If clients make new industries, they desync too..Server never desyncs
15:38[~]LordAzamath will go drawing McDonalds for Dihedral ;)
15:38<dihedral>[20:29] <Ammller> dihedral / LordAzamath thats already done...
15:38<Maedhros>LeviathNL: i'm not understanding bug 1380... how can it be refitted to passengers if that's the default?
15:39<LeviathNL>I'll post a screen
15:42<Ammller>LordAzamath: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=56333&sid=5aba085bc4d4f317e6bbf7a6211dcf41#p56333
15:42<LeviathNL>Maedhros, see comments on the bug-report
15:42<Ammller>maybe you can do something not commerce
15:43<+glx>LeviathNL: you mean "livery" refit
15:44<LeviathNL>I guess :)
15:47<huma>LordAzamath: draw starbucks too :)
15:48<Ammller>LordAzamath: I will include them in the coop pack only, if they donate to openttd.org...
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15:49<LordAzamath>I go away for a second, and coming back...thay are asking for starbucks, donations..what else? :D
15:49<Ammller>maybe you do somthing for the ECS Tourist vector: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECS
15:49<LordAzamath>I actually wasn't going to draw Mcdonalds ;)
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15:54<LordAzamath>BUT..now for serious...is there anything really I could draw?
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15:55<BiA|pavel-css>:)
15:55<BiA|pavel-css>new trains ;)
15:55<LordAzamath>I'll start from buildings...there are lots...lots of trainsets avilable
15:55<fjb>Is it possible to just add new buildings or does every new building replace another one?
15:56<LordAzamath>with newhuses...I think it's possible...am I right?
15:57<mikegrb>~an
15:57<fjb>LordAzamath: Make an erotik shop. Georges busses are already doing the advertises. :-)
15:57<LordAzamath>unfortunatly, I have to spend a year studying at specs to be able to make something lie that
15:57<LeviathNL>I think so, ttrs3 add buildings by default
15:57<LordAzamath>@fjb....I'm a minor
15:58<LordAzamath>so no *erotic shops* from me
15:58<LordAzamath>:D
15:58<fjb>LordAzamath: Then don't look at the busses. :-)
15:58<@Belugas>fjb, you can either replace some houses by your own or you can add new ones.
15:58<fjb>Belugas: thank you.
15:58<@Belugas>you're free to do whatever you want
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15:58<BiA|pavel-css>what about Mcdonalds? :)
15:58<BiA|pavel-css>:D :P
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15:58[~]dihedral slaps BiA|pavel-css
15:58<@Belugas>i prefer A&W
15:58<BiA|pavel-css>i prefer KFC
15:58[~]fjb prefers chinese food.
15:59<LordAzamath>[21:38] <dihedral> [20:29] <Ammller> dihedral / LordAzamath thats already done...
15:59[~]LordAzamath breaks out the slapping rod and looks sternly at BiA|pavel-css
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16:00[~]BiA|pavel-css is whistilng
16:00<BiA|pavel-css>O:-)
16:00<LordAzamath>macdonalds when the char-set is anything like western...Chinise food for chinise charset :DD
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16:01<Sionide>it's "mc"
16:01<Ammller>I would rather like chinese food then mc donald
16:01<LordAzamath>Hesburger is better than MC
16:01<Sionide>chinese food restaurant with a dodgy neon sign would look cool
16:03<Barry>Hello
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16:03<LeviathNL>draw a playing ground or a park :) a bit more space in the cities.
16:04<BiA|pavel-css>or simple bilboard :) with ........ somethink original .... like http://www.mcdonalds.cz/img/u/logo_mcd.gif
16:04<hylje>draw withering cities
16:04<dihedral>4x4
16:04<LordAzamath>http://www.citynoise.org/upload/8144.jpg
16:04<LordAzamath>@sionide
16:04<hylje>dark, dodgy, hideous
16:04<Sionide>yessss
16:04<Sionide>a dodgy sign that flickers
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16:05<LordAzamath>I think, I'll emerge back to Mandriva 2008, now and install IRC client there...or use kopeete. the Vista is uselessly slow :(
16:06<BiA|pavel-css>some advertisment ....
16:06<BiA|pavel-css>http://cerocoma.files.wordpress.com/2006/04/mcdonal%20CL.jpg
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16:10<ln->he dared to return
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16:13[~]dihedral slaps Bjarni
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16:15<LordAzamath>now back :D
16:20<@Bjarni>what did I do?
16:20<fjb>He changed the os.
16:20<dihedral>you told me to mail to the dev maillist
16:21<@Bjarni>did you do that?
16:21<dihedral>yep
16:22<dihedral>talk to TrueBrain about that maillist
16:22[~]Bjarni wonders why he didn't get that mail
16:22<fjb>Why does the newspaper always tell me unimportant this like closing industries that are already closed, but never tells me about a crashed airplain and almost never about a crash at a road / railroad crossing?
16:22<dihedral>Bjarni: that is _exactly_ what you should ask TB about
16:22<hylje>it does but it's buried in all that industry talk
16:23<LordAzamath>because you havent touched the messages settings?
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16:23<hylje>"you mean ottd has message settings?"
16:23<ln->Bjarni: i don't know what others are fererring to, i was merely talking about the pressure for resolving the two compilation errors on leopard.
16:23<fjb>I just checked the settings. It should be in the news. But I never see it.
16:24<LordAzamath>"you mean ottd has message settings?" yes
16:26<@Belugas>do you see those news in the history?
16:30<fjb>No, or at least I sometimes miss a vehicle. I asume that it had an accident, but that usually isn't in the news history anymore.
16:32<fjb>Three concodes, vour tracks, a tram and two busses diappeared.
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17:01<LordAzamath>ok...I have drawns SOMEthing...help me find out what it is :D
17:01<LordAzamath>http://www.hot.ee/madisaasmae/pilt.png
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17:02<LordAzamath>anyone?
17:02<@Belugas>a trophee?
17:03<@Belugas>a nice fruit basket?
17:03<LordAzamath>it looks more like a house
17:03<ln->LordAzamath: what happened to dvdmedia.ee?
17:03<@Belugas>a military building?
17:03<ln->LordAzamath: err.. nothing, it seems.
17:04<@Belugas>it has an helipad on the roof?
17:04<LordAzamath>a pool
17:04<@Belugas>^_^
17:04<@Belugas>ok
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17:04<LordAzamath>I thought it would be helipad, but then rethought it
17:04<LordAzamath>actually, I don't know what it is
17:04<@Belugas>it is strange looking, to say the least
17:05<@Belugas>and now, i'm going home
17:05<@Belugas>see you
17:05<@Belugas>and good night
17:05<dihedral>cu
17:05<LordAzamath>see you too...bye
17:05<dihedral>LordAzamath: how about thinking of something to draw
17:06<LordAzamath>http://www.hot.ee/madisaasmae/pilt.png
17:06<dihedral>rathen than drawing something and then finding out what it is supposed to be
17:06<LordAzamath>:d
17:06<LordAzamath>I don't know....
17:07<LordAzamath>give me a good ide
17:07<LordAzamath>a
17:08<LordAzamath>:)
17:13<LordAzamath>ummm... I'll draw a...mall next time....tomorrow I think
17:14<LordAzamath>but I guess then that one wasn't so good. :( Try better next time :)
17:14<LordAzamath>anyway, I'll go to sleep now
17:14<LordAzamath>bye
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17:26<Maarten>:)
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17:47<Knightmare>hey guys
17:48<Knightmare>is anyone available to confirm the existence of a bug for me?
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17:53<Knightmare>NOT_REACHED triggered at line 152 of /compile_farm/openttd/nightly/compile_sir/src/slope.h
17:57<@Rubidium>well... make it reproducable by loading a savegame and doing something specific or (even better) nothing. Then post the savegame at bugs.openttd.org
17:59<Wolf01>'night
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18:07<dihedral>night
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18:13<Knightmare>this is happening when i load a game i saved against last nights SVN ok
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18:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11354 /trunk/src/airport.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1379]: one variable wasn't freed whereas all others were. It's not causing any problems as it happens during the shutdown of OpenTTD. So basically it is only for consistency.
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18:39<skidd13>Hi
18:40<Gonozal_VIII>hi
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18:59<skidd13>Is the misplacement of the trams (modern tram set) in the group_gui a bug in OTTD or in the grf?
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19:00<@Rubidium>misplacement?
19:01<@Rubidium>you mean something like wrong alignment or so? If that's the case, it's most likely the GRF as the others seem to work.
19:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11355 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#1377]: loading too many GRFs was not handled gracefully causing crashes and such.
19:02<skidd13>Some sprites seem to go out of bounds. I think it's the GRF too but I'm not sure that's why I'm asking.
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19:07<fjb>The modern tram set is in very early development. The graphics are there, but almost none of the vehicle statistics. I would guess that there is much more to do.
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19:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11356 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Fix (r11305): funding industries in MP game was causing desync
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19:41<Ammlller>nice fix glx, we realized that just today
19:41<Ammlller>thank you.
19:43<Ammlller>fjb: I guess, this guy is looking for coder..., job for you?
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19:53<Sacro>grr
19:58<fjb>Ammlller: ME, Coder? No. :-)
19:59<Ammlller>oh, why not?
19:59<fjb>I'm lucky I found the values that I had to change.
19:59<fjb>I'm not cool enough to be a coder. :-P
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20:00<Ammlller>oh, thats possible it needs a big freezer, to be so cool like Michael Blunck
20:00<fjb>Is he living in the Alps? That would explain it.
20:00<Ammlller>I never saw so much smiles 8)
20:01<Ammlller>he is the creator of Alpine, thats explains :)
20:01<fjb>It's getting colder. Maybe I could start to code.
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20:02<Ammlller>lol, http://www.kugelbauch2005.de/ <-- Bernhards homepage
20:02<fjb>It's always funny when people want to be coders and are not able to write in their mother tongue.
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20:03<fjb>What that? I only see maga girls there.
20:04<fjb>But the people can draw, indeed.
20:04<Ammlller>I liked to download his grfs...
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20:04<Ammlller>you know Bernhard?
20:05<fjb>Yes, you will know hin if you are reading the german forum.
20:05<Ammlller>indeed
20:05<fjb>But are you shure that is his homepage?
20:06<fjb>I'm playing a bit with xara, I just installed it.
20:07<Ammlller>:) do you know an other page from him
20:08<fjb>No, I don't know any.
20:09<fjb>He has a (what's the english word for große Klappe?)
20:09<Ammlller>He is old, older then me...
20:10<fjb>I don't think he is that much older than me.
20:10<Ammlller>hmm, does that explain anything?
20:11<fjb>How old is he? I think he wrote that he is 43.
20:12<Ammlller>thats possible
20:12<Ammlller>no idea
20:12<fjb>How old do you think I am? :-)
20:13<Ammlller>:) oh, then you are older then me :)
20:13<fjb>Don't know how old you are.
20:13<Ammlller>35
20:13<fjb>I'm 40.
20:13<Ammlller>ten years
20:14<fjb>I don't thik that he was different from now when he was younger.
20:15<fjb>Did you read this: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=3091 ?
20:15<fjb>:-)
20:17<Ammlller>Rubidium: I meant that: http://www.tt-forums.net/download.php?id=56030
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20:22[~]Belugas beats fjb by two years (and soon 3)
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20:24<Greyscale>sleep now
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20:24[~]fjb will catch up next year.
20:24<fjb>:-)
20:25<Eddi|zuHause2>i believe you beat me by almost 20 years
20:26<Ammlller>fjb: thats a ugly thread, so much arrogance...
20:27<Eddi|zuHause2>err... wtf? -> http://wurzel.files.wordpress.com/2006/01/music.jpg
20:29<fjb>Ammlller: yes, there is everything from stupidity to arrogance.
20:29<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: cool.
20:30<fjb>A bit strange. :-)
20:30<Eddi|zuHause2>apparently, it's a picture of bands
20:31<fjb>Then something went wrong for Fay Wray and King Kong...
20:32<fjb>:-)
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20:33<Eddi|zuHause2>it's the Gorillaz
20:33<Eddi|zuHause2>and wtf is Fay Wray?
20:34<fjb>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0024216/
20:36<fjb>She played in King Kong.
20:37<fjb>And I was just citing from: http://www.rocky-horror-deutschland.de/RHPSSongs/SONGS1e.HTM
20:37|-|LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:37<fjb>Or better: http://www.rockymusic.org/sfdf/
20:38<fjb>Oh, she has a fan page: http://www.shillpages.com/faywray/fwmain.shtml
20:42[~]fjb thinks about writing a nfo assembler.
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20:44[~]Belugas thinks he does not like all those url posting... or maybe it is just fatigue...
20:46<Ammlller>oui, je veux sleep too
20:46<fjb>Belugas doesn't have to read that all.
20:47[~]Belugas did not read anything but the urls posted
20:47[~]Belugas should go to sleep, he thinks
20:48[~]fjb does think so, too. :-)
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21:07<Maarten>sleep? I heard about people doing that..... what is this "sleep"?
21:08<fjb>-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep
21:08<@Belugas>it is actually easy to do. you do not need to do much. simply close your eyes, lay on your back, reduce your breathing, empty your mind, listen to.....
21:08<@Belugas>rrrrrrr
21:09<@Belugas>zzzzzzzzzzzz
21:09<fjb>How can I sleep when I have to manage a traffic jam?
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21:32<fjb>Good night
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23:54<huma>sleep less, work more
---Logclosed Tue Oct 30 00:01:24 2007