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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-08

---Logopened Thu Nov 08 00:00:23 2007
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01:30<Twlight>hello everyone
01:31<Rubidium>hi and there's no everyone here ;)
01:32<Twlight>:D
01:32<Twlight>I have a question about openttd, more about transport tycoon.
01:33<Twlight>this is kinda of long winded
01:34<Eddi|zuHause>this ominous everyone guy that is supposed to be hiding here might be much more likely to answer if you actually asked the question
01:34<Tefad>go for it, if someone is bored enough, they might attempt an answer.
01:35<Twlight>i have found 3 coal mines near each other, so what i did was take one train station at one mine then truck stops at the other mines, the trucks then load from those mines and unload at the train station. then the train station takes the coal to the powerplants near by
01:35<Tefad>ok
01:35<Twlight>however, when the trains load, they seem to loose profit at an alarming rate
01:35<Twlight>why is this?
01:35<Tefad>you mean lose?
01:35<Tefad>i'll take some loose profits ; )
01:35<Twlight>yea
01:35<Twlight>i love loose profits myself :D
01:36<Tefad>i'm pretty much useless for this stuff
01:36<Tefad>i just like to watch the vehicles go by : x
01:36<Eddi|zuHause>Twlight: yes, transfer makes negative income if the cargo waits very long at the station
01:36<Twlight>ahh
01:36<Twlight>alright
01:36<Twlight>there is a lot of coal at the station
01:37<Tefad>this replaces my urge to build a model train city..
01:38<Twlight>well
01:38<Twlight>that was answered quite quickly thanks :)
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02:17<HeavyWave>omg Opera can use IRC
02:17<HeavyWave>hey guys
02:17<HeavyWave>where can I read tuts for complex junctions?
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03:59<Sacro>rawr
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06:00<TrueBrain>morning all
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06:21<huma>oi
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10:16<@Belugas>anyone who has MSVC compiler nearby?
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10:37<BigBB>Belugas, I, but I must reboot
10:37<@Belugas>ok
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10:41<+glx>I have it without reboot
10:42<@Belugas>glx, do you have some warnings with clean trunk on MSVC?
10:42<@Belugas>mailny in players.cpp? I had some yesterday evening
10:44<+glx>I have one in station_cmd.cpp
10:44<+glx>4 in players.cpp
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10:45<@Belugas>ok
10:45<@Belugas>http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/bool_GB_TO_HASBIT.diff
10:45<@Belugas>this SHOULD clear the ones in players.cpp
10:45<@Belugas>could you check for me?
10:47<+glx>ok for players.cpp
10:48<@Belugas>and line of station_cmd.cpp?
10:50<+glx>was _gui indeed
10:50<+glx>line 446
10:50<@Belugas>haaa... ok :) thanks
10:50<+glx>station_sort.order = GB(sl->flags, 0, 1);
10:51<+glx>solved with HASBIT
10:55<@Belugas>indeed
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10:56<@Belugas>it's so old stuff... i guess the recent macro changes got these to surface
10:56<+glx>yep
10:56<+glx>macro have no type
10:57<@Belugas>thanks for your time, glx
10:57<+glx>anyway using GB for a bool is weird
10:58<@Belugas>:)
10:58<@Belugas>yeah, a lot :)
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11:02<BigBB>for a few days african was integrated. I think you forgot to integrate it into langs.vcproj/langs_vs80.vcproj (the generate script)
11:03<+glx>let me check that
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11:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11392 /trunk/src/ (players.cpp station_gui.cpp):
11:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Remove some MSVC warnings by removing boolean typecast that can be avoided by using HASBIT instead.
11:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Although the code is old (r2817), it is the recent changes made in macros.h that brough it up.
11:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11393 /trunk/projects/ (langs.vcproj langs_vs80.vcproj): -Fix (r11368): forgot to update lang project files
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11:11<+glx>BigBB: done ;)
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11:12<BigBB>:)
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11:55<skidd13>Hi folks
11:56<BigBB>hi skidd13
12:06<SmatZ>hi
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12:07<skidd13>TrueBrain: Are you outa there?
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12:19<Unknown_Entity>does anyone have an idea why DrawSprite() could be called with a SpriteID of 184404916 (and similar weird values)? It always crashes the game for me.
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12:21<@Belugas>a SpriteID is not just an id. it has informations too, like the transparent color and so on
12:21<Noldo>:)
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12:21<@Belugas>i do not recall exactly how much, but a certain amount of bits on the spriteid are in fact the real sprite id itseld
12:21<Unknown_Entity>so SpriteID=184404916 is not unusual and shouldn't be the cause of the crash?
12:22<@Belugas>i would say it is not unusual, but i'm not going to pronounce myself on the fact that it should not crash
12:22<@Belugas>hard to tell from where i'm standing ;)
12:23<Unknown_Entity>hmm, ok. i'll check that on the unix backend
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12:23<@Belugas>you have some grfs?
12:24<Unknown_Entity>no, nothing apart from the standard grfs. but i guess i should mention that this problem is on my DS port
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12:25<@Belugas>lol
12:25<@Belugas>indeed :)
12:26<@Belugas>it's not the first time you're asking about this, if i'mnot mistaken
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12:28<Unknown_Entity>until now i feared it would be some kind of memory coruption. but it's good to know that the spriteID isn't the problem. i'll investigate further
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12:28<+glx>it may be a memory corruption ;)
12:29<Wolf01>hello
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12:32<@Belugas>i never said that it was not the problem. I said that the number you've shown was not an unusual sprite id ;)
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12:33<Unknown_Entity>yes, and you're right. on the unix build I get the same spriteIDs
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12:42<skidd13>SmatZ: What do you think about http://paste.openttd.org/281 ?
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12:53<Rubidium>skidd13: have you profiled that? IIRC findfirstbit is used quite a lot in the hot paths
12:54<skidd13>Rubidium: Nope I just asked SmatZ for his opinion to this. Cause I knew that he's a bit further in the C -> ASM stuff
12:57<LeviathNL>can anyone comment on http://paste.openttd.org/282 . It prevents making coast tile like this http://i15.tinypic.com/6z57gww.png when generating a map
12:58<BigBB>LeviathNL, your patch hasn't any effect (only cpu load).
12:58<skidd13>LeviathNL: Maybe TileAddByDiagDir() makes it a bit more readable
12:59<BigBB>the current flooding work so: flood tiles in direction only if both corners in this direction on high == 0
12:59<LeviathNL>It does have affect, i generated with and without patch with the same seed and they are not coast tiles
12:59<BigBB>aah, sry, your in landscape
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13:05<LeviathNL>skidd13, like this http://paste.openttd.org/283 ?
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13:06<skidd13>LeviathNL: Ahh, yup looks more readable to me
13:07<LeviathNL>any other comments on the patch, I have no experience at all with C(++)
13:07<BigBB>but there is annother problem: only shores directed to south-east will be flood, all others only after start the game
13:08<BigBB>s/south-east/north-west
13:08<skidd13>LeviathNL: Maybe to reduce CPU usage split the if off to the single cases
13:09<LeviathNL>BigBB, I also thought that would happen but it does not (pause on gamestart on and nothing odd is seen)
13:10<BigBB>e.g. SLOPE_SE in direction DIAGDIR_SE is never water in this situation (for (tile = 0; tile < MapSize(); ++tile))
13:11<Ailure>heh
13:11<Ailure>I'm amused hwo my first change
13:11<Ailure>to the openTTD source
13:11<Ailure>ever
13:12<Ailure>was making the game to be paused in the titlescreen
13:12<Ailure>way less annoying :)
13:12<LeviathNL>BigBB, you mean because the ConvertGroundTilesIntoWaterTiles had not yet looked at that tile?
13:13<BigBB>LeviathNL, yes
13:22<LeviathNL>ok, I'm gonna check the corner-points of the neighbor (must-be-water) tile
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13:33<LeviathNL>what's the difference between GetTileZ and GetTileMaxZ ?
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13:35<+glx>GetTileZ uses min, GetTileMaxZ uses max, and param name is different
13:36<+glx>GetTileZ returns the lower height of a tile, GetTileMaxZ returns the higher height
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14:24<fjb>Moin
14:25<fjb>!logs
14:25<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
14:26<@Belugas>!bookmark
14:29<fjb>!hollyday
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14:37<fjb>Oh, oh...
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14:37<Eddi|zuHause>you broke it
14:38<fjb>Wo? Me? Never. :-)
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15:16<Ammller>Belugas: is it known, that newcargo.grf from MB doesn't work with OTTD?
15:17<Ammller>should I post a bug report?
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15:19<yorick>are you guys going to include the newwater patch?
15:19<@Belugas>1) i have nevr used newcargo.grf
15:19<yorick>err
15:19<@Belugas>2) i have no idea what are the features that it brnigs
15:19<yorick>deepwater
15:20<@Belugas>yorick, i was not talking to you
15:20<yorick>I've found one of its futures already included :-), the water above seelevel
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15:20<yorick>*sealeve;
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15:20<@Belugas>as for the inclusion of newwater, yeah, maybe, but there are other stuff to do first
15:21<yorick>so.. than its a bug
15:21<@Belugas>yorick, water above sealevel is not in relation with newwater
15:21<@Belugas>at all
15:21<hylje>:o
15:21<@Belugas>the only commun ground they have is... water
15:21<@Belugas>[15:23] <yorick> so.. than its a bug <--- hu???
15:21<Ammller>Belugas: http://img8.myimg.de/newcargoBUGcc0dd.png
15:22<Ammller>the station doesn't accept Livestock, but it should
15:22<yorick>no, I really mean, I created REAL(not canals) water above sea level
15:23<@Belugas>Ammller, i'm not sure it is a bug
15:23<Ammller>and thats with Patch: http://img8.myimg.de/newcargoBUG1Patch31627.png
15:23<@Belugas>i suspect the industry is too big for the catchment area of the station
15:23<Ammller>Belugas: oh, I tested that to, with airports etc around the whole industry
15:24<+glx>Ammller: should be fixed
15:24<Ammller>glx: reacenty?
15:24<@Belugas>[15:18] <Ammller> Belugas: is it known, that newcargo.grf from MB doesn't work with OTTD?<--- you have a strange way of saying there is a bug ;) From what i read, it's as if nothing of that grf works...
15:24<@Belugas>yorick, good for you
15:25<@Belugas>with a patch?
15:25<Ammller>:redface:
15:25<Ammller>I'll test it with current trunk then
15:25<+glx><@Belugas> i suspect the industry is too big for the catchment area of the station <-- it was the wrong original acceptance
15:26<@Belugas>ho... ok :)
15:26<+glx>Ammller: r11384
15:26[~]Sacro humms
15:27<Ammller>hmm, I should have that revision already
15:28<@Belugas>and if you try a 3 tile station in ttdp, try the same station size in ottd ;)
15:28<@Belugas>just i case
15:28<Ammller>:), of course I did
15:28<Ammller>I made the station areaound the whole industry
15:29<Ammller>also airports with huge catchments
15:29<@Belugas>so, it should be the r11384 and above, as glx said
15:30<+glx>works for me anyway
15:30<+glx>I just tried :)
15:30<Ammller>yes, sorry many times :)
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15:31<Ammller>glx: also the problem that fish didn't tranform to food?
15:31<@Belugas>no probl, you just brough a little life in this sleepy chanel ^_^
15:32<Ammller>somehow I checked out 11384 but didn't compile it right
15:34<@Belugas>ok
15:36<Ammller>ähm, this loading buoys like TTDPatch has, is that something very hardly to make in OTTD or just not done?
15:36<+glx>ok no food for fish
15:37<+glx>Ammller: I'll look into it later
15:37<Ammller>do you need something from me?
15:38<+glx>no I have ttdpatch to compare ;)
15:38<+glx>and I'm talking about food "bug"
15:38<+glx>not buoys
15:39<Ammller>hmm, I didn't test the food bug in TTDP
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15:39<Ammller>that was pointed from Osai
15:40<Ammller>hmm, nice rivers :)
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15:42<Sacro>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0 <- The day the routers died
15:42<@Belugas>i think we(maybe not me, since i'm a bit buzy) discussed about the loading buoy stuff. Concensus was (iirc) that we'll wait for newgrfports to be finalized to have a proper "sea-port" instead
15:42<yorick>| YouTube link == Ban
15:43|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Belugas [a youtube???????]
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15:43<Sacro>Belugas: no, its a lie
15:43<Sacro>Bjarni made me
15:43<Sacro>he controls me D:
15:44<hylje>sacro is a lie!
15:44<hylje>but are you delicious and moist?
15:44[~]Belugas does only believe his eyes
15:44<Hendikins>Bjarni: Well, I can't say the railways don't look after me. I'm off to work today because my DM noticed I'm a day short on my timesheet. To do what, I don't know :P
15:45<@Bjarni>heh
15:45<@Bjarni>one of those days :)
15:45[~]Hendikins departs for an unscheduled 9 - 5
15:45<yorick>Belugas: http://xs221.xs.to/xs221/07454/rivers.png
15:45<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni made me <-- no I didn't
15:46<hylje>yes you did
15:46<@Bjarni>you are perfectly good at breaking the rules on your own
15:46<@Belugas>nice yorick. how have you achieved that?
15:48<yorick>make canal > make depot on canal ->destroy depot
15:49<yorick>on r11369
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15:50<@Belugas>interesting
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15:50<@Belugas>can you try the same thing on curent nightly?
15:50<yorick>its on stables too
15:50<@Belugas>r11392
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15:50<yorick>but then it becomes canal
15:52<yorick>yes
15:52<yorick>reproducable in r11392
15:53<yorick>without newgrfs
15:53<yorick>in all climates
15:53<@Belugas>ok
15:53<@Belugas>you're entitled to write a bug report ^_^
15:54<yorick>I don't have much time :(
15:55<Ammller>yorick: does it flood?
15:55<yorick>nope
15:55<Ammller>I did it but id doesn flood by me
15:55<@Belugas>i don't have time at all...
15:55<yorick>fortunatly not
15:56<@Belugas>and you don't have to rush to write it, it can wait ^_^
15:56<Ammller>so its only a "eyebug"
15:56<yorick>yes
15:56<Ammller>maybe that can be fixed with riverpatch ;)
15:56<Ammller>http://img8.myimg.de/river6393a.png
15:57<yorick>yes
15:57<Ammller>hmm, is there already one?
15:57<yorick>err deepwater?
15:58<yorick>but it's not included
15:58<yorick>btw: the water DOES flood if on sealevel
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15:58<Ammller>of course not, but can I make rivers with deepwater?
15:58<yorick>yes
15:59<yorick>g2g now :(
15:59<yorick>bye!
15:59<Ammller>bye
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16:08<Ammller>glx: another "MB" bug: http://img8.myimg.de/cargosetbug1ab16.png
16:09<Ammller>(CargoSet is needed, if you like to use NewCargo and RVs)
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16:23[~]Belugas has a strange feeling of deja-vu regarding Ammller's last screenshot...
16:24<Ammller>?? :)
16:24<fjb>Hm, maybe that this is related, I tried the UK Road Set with TTRS (I had the roads of TTRS disabled) and the UK Road Set complained about another roadset. The readme of the UK Road Set explicitly lists TTRS to be compatible, if the roads of TTRS are disabled.
16:25<Ammller>fjb: we use that set often
16:25<Ammller>no problems yet
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16:26<@Belugas>not related fjb
16:26<@Belugas>Ammller, are those the very last versions of the sets? Did you double check?
16:27<Ammller>hmm, those sets are very old
16:27<fjb>Belugas: Thank you.
16:27<Ammller>and MB didn't publish updates
16:28<Ammller>"very old" means from Sept. 05
16:29<Ammller>cargo set is from 03
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16:29<+glx>and the message is clear
16:30<Ammller>I guess its something simular to the one, I had with nothing
16:30<@Belugas>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=8286&hilit=dbset+cargoset
16:30<@Belugas>interesting
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16:34<+glx>so not a bug ;)
16:34<dihedral>hello glx :-)
16:35<Ammller>http://img8.myimg.de/cargosetbug14c2f7.png
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16:36<Ammller>glx: I think, cargo set has to be before dbsetxl, this thread is somehow confusing
16:36[~]dihedral waves at Ammller
16:36<Ammller>omg
16:37<Ammller>:)
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16:38<SmatZ>evening
16:38<SmatZ>skidd13 is gone :-/
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16:42<Ammller>hmm, can I change TTDPatch language to english?
16:42<SpComb>use the english.exe, set lang=en_GB
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16:45<TrueBrain>hi all
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16:46<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1315 <-- is it still broken ?
16:47[~]dihedral waves at TrueBrain
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17:05[~]TrueBrain waves back
17:05<TrueBrain>but misses
17:05<TrueBrain>DOH!
17:05<Sacro>fail
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17:08<fjb>Truebrain should ask the northern atlantic for some waves. It might have some to spare tonight.
17:08<TrueBrain>fjb: haha, nice!
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17:23<fjb>Are there plans for newharbours, like the new stations and the new airports?
17:24<LeviathNL>why is there a pointer in the parameters of GetTileSlope ?
17:25<Rubidium>fjb: newairports?
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17:27<fjb>Rubidium: I saw a patch at tt-forums.net, with airports modeled after real airports.
17:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11394 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h: -Fix: default value for input cargo multipliers is 256 even for invalid cargo. Exceptions are temperate banks and oil rigs, default value is 0 for them
17:32<+glx>Ammller: now you can get food for fish ;)
17:33<Ammller>omg, you are too fast
17:34<+glx>was something similar to acceptance bug (ie wrong default values)
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17:34<Ammller>I'll check it directly
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17:34<Ammller>does it affect also for running games?
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17:36<+glx>probably but I'm not sure
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17:39<LeviathNL>ok, this new version of my patch: http://paste.openttd.org/284 (no more http://i15.tinypic.com/6z57gww.png when generating landscapes.)
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17:47<LeviathNL>If nobody has any comments I'll put it on the patch mailing-list
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17:49<Ammller>glx: works now, thank you very much :)
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17:55<Ammller>LeviathNL: patches goes to bugs.openttd.org now
17:55<TrueBrain>Ammller: patches go to patch maillist now
17:55<slafs>Can i change max loan amount on a dedicated server while the game is running?
17:56<Rubidium>no
17:56<Ammller>hmm, ok :)
17:57<LeviathNL>TrueBrain, on http://www.openttd.org/contact.php svn.openttd.org has a line trough it probably because it was not available some time a go. The line-trough can be removed now.
17:58<TrueBrain>it make it looks like our SVN is dead or something :s
17:58<TrueBrain>tnx LeviathNL, fixed
18:03<Ammller>TrueBrain: what about bug reports with patches?
18:04<TrueBrain>Ammller: bugs to bugs.openttd.org, patches to patch-list
18:04<TrueBrain>not that hard? :)
18:06<Ammller>depense :)
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18:31|-|mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
18:31|-|mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ
18:31|-|mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ
18:31|-|mode/#openttd [+v Bjarni] by ChanServ
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18:55<BigBB>TrueBrain, is it possible to deactivate the 'SVN Archives'-link on mailman.openttd.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/svn or maybe change it to hg.openttd.org ?
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19:00<SmatZ>hmm I lost whole content of one of my chroot environment...
19:00<SmatZ>I wonder how is that possible
19:00<SmatZ>if I got mad and deleted contents of whole directory
19:00<SmatZ>and I don't remember anything?
19:02<SmatZ>ha
19:02<SmatZ>I renamed the directory
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19:06<Wolf01>'night
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19:06<SmatZ>he is too quick for me to say bey
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19:54<Smoovious>time to climb back in the truck for a few weeks...
19:54<Smoovious>o/
19:55<SmatZ>king of the road :)
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20:10<fjb>He really lives the transportation game. :-)
20:17<Smoovious>when I have enuf money to buy my own truck and trailer, I'm going into business with the name "Smoovious Transport" just like in game. :D
20:18[~]Smoovious poofs.
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20:23<fjb>:-)
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20:36<fjb>Is there a way to teach road vehicles not to drive through each other when overtaking?
20:36|-|Gonozal_VIII [user@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has joined #openttd
20:36<BigBB>lv4?
20:37<Gonozal_VIII>hi
20:37<BigBB>hi Gonozal_VIII
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20:37<fjb>Yes. But it looks like the whole vehicles drive through each other, not just the parts that are longer than the bounding box.
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20:38<fjb>Moin Gonozal_VIII
20:39<Gonozal_VIII>they did that only on bridges but i thought even that was fixed some days ago
20:40<BigBB>fjb, I think this happen allway if a given amount of vehicles drives in each other. thats happen too vor original graphic (the last time I used that)
20:40<BigBB>s/vor/for
20:42<fjb>Hm, I will have a closer look, but I almost got an heart attack some days ago and wondered where the driver won hic licence.
20:42<BigBB>in the lottery :)
20:45<Gonozal_VIII>seem to keep their box distance on open road as well as in front of stations...
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20:46<Gonozal_VIII>and tunnels suck in unlimited numbers of busses as usual
20:48<BigBB>if a vehicle it will be make unvisible, not more ...
20:48<BigBB>if a vehicle is in a tunnel ...
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>ok now that's funny...
20:49<BigBB>why?
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>they stop on bridges.. but keep on moving closer together very slowly
20:50<BigBB>stop?
20:50<Gonozal_VIII>when i stop the first one manually
20:50<Gonozal_VIII>the others behind it stop in normal distance... but they don't really stop, they keep moving very slowly
20:51<Gonozal_VIII>now they're all stacked
20:51<BigBB>you mean: if you stop a vehicle on brifge, all following will stop behind them. but if you stop a vehicle into a tunnel all vehicles behind them will overhauling them?
20:52<Gonozal_VIII>no they will enter the tunnel... hundreds of them in a 2 tile tunnel
20:53<BigBB>with and without NewGRFs?
20:54<fjb>That is really funny.
20:54<fjb>Maybe there is a parking lot in the tunnel. :-)
20:54<Gonozal_VIII>they want to build something like that in my town :-)
20:54<BigBB>with a NewGRF: okay. But in original version it's not right..
20:57<Gonozal_VIII>35 mps regal busses in a 3 tile tunnel
20:58<Gonozal_VIII>tunnels have unlimited capacity... but i think that was the same in the original ttd
20:59<Gonozal_VIII>but i can't really remember, that's too long ago
21:02<Gonozal_VIII>but the bridge thing is new, they used to ignore stopped vehicles on the bridge and pass through, now they stop properly and then crawl on pixel by pixel until they are stacked
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>also with and without newgrf
21:04<BigBB>IIRC the bridge behavior was changed for the bridge-over-all patch
21:05<Gonozal_VIII>i think it was around 112xx, not long ago
21:06<Gonozal_VIII>oh, the stack moves on through the stopped vehicle after some time and moves on to the end of the bridge where it destacks
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21:08<Gonozal_VIII>only realised that because i hit fast forward, takes some time
21:12<fjb>That is really starnge.
21:12<fjb>strange
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21:43<fjb>Good night.
21:43<Gonozal_VIII>good night
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 09 00:00:56 2007