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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-11

---Logopened Sun Nov 11 00:00:48 2007
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02:59<Tefad>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1O2jcfOylU
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04:05<Eddi|zuHause2><Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: is FS#1315 fixed? <- didn't check in quite a while...
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04:11<Soup>whats c#
04:12<Rubidium>a programming language
04:12<Soup>oh
04:13<Eddi|zuHause2>a music note half a tone higher than c
04:14<Soup>wow
04:14<Eddi|zuHause2>(which is kinda how the name was derived, since C++ and D was already taken :p)
04:15<Soup>c--
04:15<Tefad>that's what i would have called it
04:15<Tefad>but that implies it's less than something and microsoft wouldn't have any of that...
04:15<Tefad>ballmer might throw a chair at you.
04:16<Tefad>or F--king Kill(TM) you.
04:16<Soup>is there d++
04:16<Eddi|zuHause2>probably
04:16<Soup>:)
04:17<Soup>[00:16] <Tefad> or F--king Kill(TM) you. ?
04:17<Tefad>http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer
04:17<Soup>wow
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04:18<Tefad>speak of the devil
04:18<Tefad>; )
04:19<Soup>someone ever got in a dryer
04:20<Soup>stuff to do that http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Fit_Inside_a_Dryer
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04:26<Soup>chicken coops
04:27<Soup>http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Chicken ehehehehhehehe
04:29[~]Soup would slap Soup, but is not being violent today
04:29<Eddi|zuHause2>[Fr Okt 12 2007] [22:19:17] <SpComb> Chicken chicken chicken --> http://pub.marttila.de/r/mgAAAA
04:31<Soup>hahahahaahhahahaha
04:31[~]Soup slaps Soup's bottom and grins cheekily
04:32<Eddi|zuHause2>(probably related, didn't check:) [Fr Okt 12 2007] [22:16:48] <SpComb> http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/improb/air/2006/00000012/00000005/art00006 <-- Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
04:33[~]Soup slaps Soup and starts getting carried away
04:36<Soup>'village dump????
04:37<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: have you checked it now?
04:37<Eddi|zuHause2>was compiling, but then got distracted... wait a few minutes
04:38[~]Rubidium slaps Soup ;)
04:38<Rubidium>must've been Soup that distracted you ;)
04:38<Soup>pee review!!!
04:39[~]Soup slaps Soup with a large smelly trout
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04:41<Eddi|zuHause2>appears to be fixed, yes
04:42<Rubidium>wonderfull
04:43<Soup>fixed what?
04:43<Eddi|zuHause2>your mouth...
04:45<Soup>hydra irc
04:45<Eddi|zuHause2>Rubidium: it might have been that he distracted be, but it was the length of the compilation that made me vulnerable to distraction in the first place ;)
04:45<Soup>[00:45] CTCP/VERSION request from SmatZ :
04:47<Soup>[00:46] ctcp/dcc Send to SmatZ of New.Text.Document.txt Completed (Sent 2KB of 2KB) huh?
04:48<Soup>owww a slap in chrisin chanel
04:48<Soup>owww
04:48<Eddi|zuHause2>"I think" is very convincing :p
04:49<Soup>slap from #openttd.ChrisIN
04:49<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... "I think" it is time for an /ignore
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07:02<MaSch>Hi
07:02<Gonozal_VIII>hi
07:03<MaSch>if i try to start a dedicated server (./openttd -D), i get some messages. One of them is "dbg:[NET] Server could not start network: bind failed()"
07:03<MaSch>What can i do to solve this?
07:03<blathijs>MaSch: Could it be that there is some other server listening at the port?
07:03<blathijs>(netstat -nl)
07:04<blathijs>!openttd ports
07:04<blathijs>hmm, no !?
07:04<blathijs>DorpsGek: openttd ports
07:04<@DorpsGek>blathijs: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
07:05<Rubidium>DorpsGek reacts on @, _42_ on !
07:05<MaSch>okay. it seems to be that problem ^^
07:05<MaSch>other port works
07:06<blathijs>Rubidium: Then _42_ is broken :-)
07:06<Rubidium>no, _42_ doesn't know !openttd ports
07:06<Rubidium>it's you that assumes that _42_ does have !openttd ports
07:07<Eddi|zuHause2>!openttd port
07:07<_42_>Eddi|zuHause2: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
07:07<Eddi|zuHause2>i make that mistake every time, too ;)
07:07<Eddi|zuHause2>it should really be fixed...
07:08<blathijs>Rubidium: Ah, it was port, not ports :-)
07:09<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, it should really react on both, but TrueBrain seems to be reluctant to listen to user suggestions...
07:10<@TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: excuse me?!
07:10<Rubidium>well, _42_ should be ditched too ;)
07:10<MaSch>is there a possibilit to connect directly to the openttd server with telnet/ssh?
07:11<Eddi|zuHause2>well, this suggestion is as old as the command itself, and still not implemented ;)
07:11|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:11<skidd13>morning
07:11<@TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: what 'suggestion'?
07:11<Rubidium>MaSch: you can, but it won't do what you want it to do I guess
07:11<Eddi|zuHause2>that _42_ not only reacts on "port" but also on "ports"
07:11<MaSch>okay
07:12<@TrueBrain>@openttd port
07:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
07:12<@TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: _42_ is dead, as I always said
07:12<@TrueBrain>use DorpsGek, not _42_
07:12<@TrueBrain>and if you find this reluctant, you can kiss my ass
07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>well, then why is he still here?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>it's just that people try "!openttd ports" and nothing happens
07:14<Rubidium>well... if _42_ wouldn't be here, !openttd ports wouldn't do anything either...
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>you could then make DorpsGek react on "!" too
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>like any other bot i know does...
07:15<hylje>well maybe that's why it doesnt react on !
07:15<Eddi|zuHause2>i always do "!", i never ever think about trying "@"
07:15<@TrueBrain>I think that is the problem of your small mind
07:15<@TrueBrain>not a problem of the bots
07:16<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i don't think about doing "!" either, it's more like a reflex
07:16|-|_42_ [truelight@81.171.98.110] has left #openttd []
07:16<Eddi|zuHause2>and reflexes usuall don't even make it to the "small brain" ;)
07:16<@TrueBrain>so there you go
07:17<@TrueBrain>and now don't come wining to me if you need a function from _42_
07:17<@TrueBrain>that is on you, Eddi|zuHause2
07:17<Eddi|zuHause2>no, ther he goes ;)
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm fine with _42_ leaving...
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07:18<@TrueBrain>and as you are clearly our only user, let's hope its enough
07:19<Eddi|zuHause2>err...
07:20<Eddi|zuHause2>i think you got up on the wrong foot today...
07:20<@TrueBrain>no, I think I found it rather offensive what you said
07:20<Eddi|zuHause2>it wasn't meant like that...
07:21<Rubidium>skidd13: you know that there can't be duplicate source filenames, right? And TrueBrain wanted to show http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/guideline.txt to you.
07:22<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway... i was doing something completely different, which i am going back to now...
07:23<@TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: it is not often people call me 'reluctant' when I work my ass of for something..
07:23<@TrueBrain>and if one person currently listens to user suggestions, as in replying to each patch-email there is... it is not a nice thing to read
07:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11405 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: in rare cases OpenTTD could segfault when resizing and scroll the main window (Rafal Rzepecki)
07:29<skidd13>Rubidium: Thanks
07:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11406 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.h: -Fix: wrong triggers would be activated on callback 32 for vehicles.
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07:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11407 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix: do not allow building of tram-tracks when they are not available (SmatZ)
07:35<Ammller>[13:12] <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: _42_ is dead, as I always said <-- will he also leave #openttdcoop ?
07:36<Gonozal_VIII>do not allow building of tram-tracks when they are not available <-- i don't get that...
07:36<@TrueBrain>hmm, now I remember why _42_ was still here... log-files
07:36<@TrueBrain>oh well
07:36<@TrueBrain>no log files for #openttd I guess
07:36<@TrueBrain>Ammller: I guess not, if you guys don't ask
07:38<Ammller>nice :)
07:42<skidd13>I've been working on the mergeo of the 3 FindFirstBit algorithms and now I got a damned assertion in tile.h. Has anyone time to help me finding the reason?
07:43<skidd13>:%s /mergeo/merge/g
07:44<Eddi|zuHause2>assertions are hints for logic errors, so if you trigger an assertion, you either did something wrong, or the logic changed since the introduction of the assert
07:44<Eddi|zuHause2>in the first case the code should be changed, in the second case, the assertion should be changed
07:45<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause2: The problem is that assert has nothing directly to do with the change :(
07:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i certainly have no idea what you actually did right now
07:45|-|TrueBrain [truelight@81.171.98.110] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
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07:46<Wolf01>hello
07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>i kinda expected to get some kind of hint now ;)
07:52<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause2: The current patch is on the patch-mail-list
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08:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11408 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix [FS#1422]: do not do a 270 degree turn when 90 degrees is enough on a commuter airport.
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09:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11409 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/lang/english.txt src/misc_gui.cpp): -Update: as of now, I am a retired Developer, so mark me as such
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09:32<fjb>Moin
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10:12<yorick>Truebrain retired?
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10:19<Chaladirnik>hi i havent played openttd in half a year... have there been some larger improvements wrt the AI in single player?
10:20[~]fjb doesn't think so.
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10:23<JVassie>Hi all, a quick question please
10:24<JVassie>whats the latest stable build (if any) that includes the PBS Patch please?
10:24<+glx>http://nightly.openttd.org/MiniIN/files/
10:26<JVassie>so its only MiniIN that has it?
10:27<+glx>yes
10:27<+glx>and it's very old
10:27<Gonozal_VIII>imho the other new features in trunk outweight pbs by far
10:28<JVassie>Possibly, however it forces you to have IMO unrealistic junctions
10:29<JVassie>because trying to use realistic type ones without PBS never works effectively
10:29|-|fjb changed nick to fjbAWAY
10:30<Gonozal_VIII>trains often made stupid path choices that blocked the whole junction anyways
10:30<JVassie>hmm
10:30<JVassie>basically i just wanted a version that allowed me to use English Town names and PBS
10:33<JVassie>do you know why PBS isnt in the trunk anyway?
10:34<LeviathNL>because nobody rewrote it for the current trunk
10:35<Gonozal_VIII>it was up to date with trunk when the miniin was still active but i think there were still some bugs in it
10:36<JVassie>one of the best patchs IMO
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10:49<SmatZ>skidd13: hello, two or three days ago you wanted me to test something...
10:49<SmatZ>is it still valid?
10:54<skidd13>SmatZ: I'm still thinkin over it.
10:57<skidd13>SmatZ: http://paste.openttd.org/288 ATM I've got 3 different solutions, but all seem to be slower than the current solution.
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11:00<SmatZ>skidd13: yes, the last one is very ellegant
11:02<skidd13>SmatZ: The last one is from misc.cpp
11:05|-|fjbAWAY changed nick to fjb
11:25<SmatZ>oh no...
11:25<SmatZ>TrueLight is gone
11:25<SmatZ>maillist is gone
11:25<SmatZ>:-(
11:25<SmatZ>everything is gone!
11:25<SmatZ>almost...
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11:30<skidd13>SmatZ: Nothing is forever, but I'd say changes are not bad. Fresh blood in old veins. ;)
11:32<SmatZ>:-)
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11:44<Ailure>shame about the maillist though
11:44<OTTD>Hi
11:44<Ailure>kinda funny how it only existed for a week
11:44<SmatZ>yes
11:45<SmatZ>hi
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11:53<Eddi|zuHause2><JVassie> do you know why PBS isnt in the trunk anyway? <- PBS was in trunk until early 2006, i believe
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11:53<Eddi|zuHause2>it was removed because it was buggy and not maintainable
11:54<JVassie>:(
11:54<JVassie>thats a buggah
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12:56<slafs_>Does the latest nightly compile on leopard?
12:56<+glx>yes and no
12:56<+glx>IIRC
12:56<slafs_>what is the 'no' part?
12:56<SmatZ>slafs_: I think there were some problems, but it should work
12:56<slafs_>okay
12:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11410 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: implement random triggers for industries.
12:57<SmatZ>but there may be more problems, not discovered yet
12:57<slafs_>atm I'm messing with xcode tools to even get make and gcc into /usr/bin, then I'll try to compile
12:57<+glx>slafs_: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1386
12:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11411 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp newgrf_house.cpp newgrf_house.h town_map.h): -Codechange: implement random triggers for houses.
12:59<slafs_>glx: okay, the last comment gives me hope :)
13:00<LeviathNL>Rubidium, when I toggle transparency with the r11411 pikka's donkeys change direction. They also don't nod anymore
13:01<Rubidium>uhm...
13:01|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:02<Rubidium>LeviathNL: isn't that what it's supposed to do?
13:03<skidd13>@seen KUDr
13:03<@DorpsGek>skidd13: KUDr was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 38 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <KUDr> good
13:03<skidd13>hmm not good
13:03<LeviathNL>they change direction, ingame while playing.
13:04<LeviathNL>that a bit double but you get the point
13:05<Rubidium>LeviathNL: are they still animated with r11409?
13:06|-|Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-172-146.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
13:08<LeviathNL>It looks like every time the industry is redrawn they change direction, also when moving over the industry with a cursor that highlights tiles (autorail, demolition, etc.)
13:08<LeviathNL>Rubidium, they also did not nod in r11409, my mistake
13:16|-|Zuu [~Leif@c-153c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
13:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11412 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industry_map.h newgrf_spritegroup.cpp):
13:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r11403): animation was not turned on properly.
13:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r11410): wrong assumption about random reseeds made the whole thing reseed way too often, making the animation look very ugly.
13:22<Rubidium>LeviathNL: better?
13:23<LeviathNL>seems perfect :) nice work
13:26<LeviathNL>svn.openttd.org does'nt update... again :(
13:26<LeviathNL>doesn't
13:26<Rubidium>it does
13:26<skidd13>Rubidium: nice work with the file guideline
13:26<Rubidium>it only takes up to 10 minutes
13:27<skidd13>Rubidium: What about moving all the math related functions and macros to math_func.h ?
13:29<Rubidium>I'm currently fairly limited on time and I want to get the bugs fix so we can start a release cycle
13:29<Rubidium>s/fix/fixed/
13:31<Rubidium>but the idea itself is okay by me
13:31<skidd13>sure, bugs go fist, especial due to limed time ;)
13:31<fjb>Oh, 0.6 is coming?
13:31<Ammller>could someone of you tell me, whats wrong with my firefox: http://img2.myimg.de/firefoxttforum89a1c.png
13:32<Ammller>its only on tt-forums and this page looks nice with opera.
13:32<Rubidium>fjb: well... it was coming about a year ago too
13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11413 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#1405]: don't use cached override spriteset for callbacks
13:32<skidd13>Ammller: tried clearing the cache?
13:32<fjb>Hm, FreeBSD 7.0 and OpenTTD 0.6 wouzld be cool. :-)
13:33<Rubidium>SmatZ: still playing that Retard game?
13:33<LeviathNL>Ammller, where did you get the breadcrump like adressbar
13:34<fjb>Ammller: Looks like some style sheets are missing. maybe the server is a bit busy. Try to reload.
13:34<SmatZ>Rubidium: I use it for testing
13:35<SmatZ>last time I played it was maybe two years ago...
13:35<Ammller>fjb: I have this problem with the page since about 3 days
13:35<Ammller>LeviathNL: its the default skin, imo
13:36<Ammller>skidd13: clearing cache has also no effect, :(
13:37<skidd13>Ammller: Any Addblock tool?
13:43<Rubidium>skidd13: you can help by solving bugs though ;)
13:43<skidd13>Rubidium: which one?
13:43<Rubidium>or implementing some stuff that should be done for 0.6
13:44<Rubidium>skidd13: 1388 would be nice to have fixed, or implementing a 'proper' planespeed patch, so people can still play with the original speed
13:44<+glx><skidd13> Rubidium: which one? <-- there's a choice on bugs.openttd.org ;)
13:44<Rubidium>but especially the ones marked 'Due in Version 0.6.0'
13:45|-|Unknown_Entity [~UnknownEn@dslb-084-063-007-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:46<skidd13>Anyone working at FS1388?
13:46<Rubidium>not that I am aware of
13:48[~]glx just saw someone's comment in 1388, a nice one :)
13:48<SmatZ>:-)
13:49<Zuu>I didn't read someone as a username, so I found Rubidiums answer a but comfusing.. :p
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13:55|-|israelite [~israelite@bzq-79-181-241-241.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #openttd
13:55<israelite>shalom
13:55<israelite>where can I find the original TTD?
13:56|-|Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a03.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
13:56|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
13:56<israelite>I have it on my old computer but I now have a new computer
13:56<Rubidium>israelite: on your TTD CD ROM?
13:56<Rubidium>or in a store
13:56<@Bjarni>sample.cat?
13:56<Gonozal_VIII>you only need some files, you can copy them from your old computer
13:56<@Bjarni>what store sells sample.cat+grf files today? :)
13:56<israelite>my old computer is dead
13:56<SmatZ>http://www.amazon.com/Transport-Tycoon-Deluxe/dp/B0006HIIJM or an old one... wow, even with a CDROM
13:57<Zuu>israelite: unless your harddrive is dead you can probably mount it in your new one?
13:57[~]fjb got TTD from a shop listed on eBay UK.
13:57<@Bjarni>yeah move your HD
13:57<israelite>my new computer is a laptop :)
13:57<israelite>it is a macbook
13:57<@Bjarni>you are making this complicated :P
13:58<israelite>so maybe I can mount it
13:58<Zuu>Buy an USB-HD case. :)
13:58<@Bjarni>yeah or a firewire-HD case
13:58<@Bjarni>they are faster
13:58<Eddi|zuHause2>get the HD to a friend who can copy your data files
13:58<israelite>I got the opening in the back...
13:58<israelite>oh wait...
13:58<israelite>the macbook uses sata right?
13:58<fjb>israelite: You still should have the original CD rom that you bought.
13:58<@Bjarni>you can't add a 3.5" disc to a macBook
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>i think if you have the files just not accessible it should be somewhat "legal" to download them...
13:59<@Bjarni>well, not directly
13:59<israelite>fjb: if I can find it....
13:59<@Bjarni>you need an USB/firewire case
13:59<israelite>okay I think my friend has one...
13:59<israelite>will give him a call.
13:59<fjb>israelite: Then you have a problem. The licence is coupled to that CD ROM.
14:00<@Bjarni>I have yet to find an USB/firewire case that lacks OSX support
14:00<@Bjarni>basically everything I touched just worked
14:00<@Bjarni>so that's 3 out of 3 :D
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>is it illegal to download something you already bought?
14:01<israelite>that would be country law related
14:01<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: in some countries it is, in some countries it is legal only if you have the original data, in some countries you mayb download anything you want
14:01<@Bjarni>you only purchased a license to have it on ONE computer and israelite already has it on one computer
14:01<israelite>I am in Israel so I don't know
14:01<@Bjarni>nobody said that the computer has to be bootable :P
14:01<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: It depends if that is illegal. But in any case you should have the original cd rom to show that you own a licence.
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni, you say that if i want to play games on my pc and my laptop i have to purchase them twice?
14:02<@Bjarni> <israelite> I am in Israel so I don't know <-- you are in the country with most pirated downloads/population and you don't know if bad stuff will happen if you pirate a more than 10 years old game?
14:03<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: I think so
14:03<Gonozal_VIII>O_o
14:03<israelite>I only moved here three weks ago!
14:04<@Bjarni>why would anybody want to move to a country with suicide bombers?
14:04<israelite>into a nice peaceful country side village with 250 people
14:04<@Bjarni>oh
14:04<israelite>Bjarni: there haven't been any bombers except one since thy started building that wall
14:04|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.]
14:04<@Bjarni>but still.... why? :)
14:04<israelite>nice landscape
14:05<israelite>good people and food
14:05|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:05<israelite>so is it legal to download it in Israel?
14:05<Ammller>israelite: I guess, it isn't, but do you really care?
14:06<@Bjarni><israelite> so is it legal to download it in Israel? <-- I think it's more like: everybody else would do that and nothing happens to anybody so....
14:06<israelite>so humm
14:06<israelite>I have never downloaded such stuff before
14:07<@Bjarni>I don't think any US company would sue people in Israel... USA kind of protects Israel
14:07<@Bjarni>but
14:07<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: You usually have the licence only for one computer. You can't buy one Windows and istall it on your whole company with 1000 computers.
14:07<@Bjarni>I can't tell you to download it illegally for legal reasons ;)
14:07<valhallasw>fjb: technically you can ;)
14:07<israelite>what would I use to download it?
14:07<@Bjarni>firefox?
14:07<israelite>torrent?
14:08<israelite>or kazaa?
14:08<hylje>you can obtain a copy of Linux and install it to every box you come across
14:08<israelite>lol
14:08<valhallasw>kazaa xD
14:08<israelite>ouch my back....
14:08<israelite>we got free wifi in this village
14:08<@Bjarni>that is what happens if you pirate software...
14:09<fjb>valhallasw: technically you can even murder people... but technically was not the question here.
14:09<@Bjarni>you get hurt when the devil enters your body
14:09<@Bjarni>after that you will do just fine :P
14:09<israelite>but I have to sit on a rock to get it because it is isn't fully oerational yet
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>i think there are abadonware sites where you can download it without installing any software
14:09<israelite>aha
14:10<fjb>hylje: That is not true for all distributions of Linux afaik.
14:10<hylje>i wasnt talking distros :-)
14:10<@Bjarni> <israelite> we got free wifi in this village <-- you mean that somebody decided to give you free internet where you can't track each person on it.... nice idea for a country downloading pirated software ;)
14:10<israelite>tomorrow they are going to but the wifi router back on the roof so I will be able to get it in my house
14:11<fjb>hylje: Linux != Linux != Linux...
14:11<israelite>Bjarni: no... they just don't have copper to the houses yet here.
14:11<israelite>so thy give free wifi so we can keep in touch with the real world
14:11<@Bjarni>israelite: so right now you are sitting on a rock outside with a MacBook talking about downloading pirated software on a wifi connection that you didn't pay for?
14:12<israelite>we pay for it
14:12<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: any kind of linux must be distributed under the GPL
14:12<israelite>its 30 sheqel a month
14:12<@Bjarni>you just said that it's free
14:12<israelite>5 mbits for all of us to share
14:12<israelite>yes I did....
14:13<@Bjarni>you shouldn't pay for free stuff :P
14:13<Eddi|zuHause2>free beer costs 5€
14:13|-|dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-088-064-163-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
14:13<israelite>lol
14:13<dihedral>hello
14:13<israelite>30 sheqel is almost free for me
14:13|-|LeviathNL [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:13<Eddi|zuHause2>how much is that in euro?
14:14<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: The kernel yes, but not the distribution specific parts. And some distributions have very restrictive licences on some parts.
14:14<Gonozal_VIII>don't know how much a sheqel is
14:14<Rubidium>google does
14:14<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: you are free to remove those parts
14:14<@Bjarni>it's around 5 EUR
14:15<Eddi|zuHause2>so like one free beer ;)
14:15<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: You have to remove the installer, the startup scripts and the package manager then. :-)
14:15<Gonozal_VIII>btw will somebody make the missing parts for openttd to solve those legal problems?
14:15<@Bjarni>israelite: that price could be really cheap or really expensive depending on how often you have to pay
14:15<israelite>btw they haven't collected the 30 sheqels from me yet
14:15<israelite>per month
14:15<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: so?
14:16<@Bjarni>daily and yearly makes two completely different prices ;)
14:16<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: No booting Linux anymore. But beside that you can use it.
14:16<israelite>mmmm someone is cooking bread!
14:16|-|Osai [~Osai@pD9EB48A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai]
14:17<@Bjarni>cooking bread?
14:17<@Bjarni>don't you mean baking bread?
14:17[~]fjb prefers baked bread.
14:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you never cooked bread?
14:17<@Bjarni>err
14:17<Rubidium>no, in Israel they cook it in water
14:17<@Bjarni>no
14:17<israelite>lol
14:17<hylje>haha
14:17<Eddi|zuHause2>(funny, i had that exact same conversation yesterday about pizza :p)
14:17<israelite>no someone is heating up some rocks t cook break
14:18<israelite>not exactly baking
14:18<@Bjarni> <Rubidium> no, in Israel they cook it in water <-- that would make it kind of like the bread part of a pizza if you put it in a microware oven
14:18<Eddi|zuHause2>cooking usually involves water
14:18<israelite>or rocks
14:18<Eddi|zuHause2>boiling water
14:18<@Bjarni>boiling rocks XD
14:19<israelite>you win
14:19<Eddi|zuHause2>what you do to make the water boil is not really relevant
14:19<israelite>english is my second language
14:19<Eddi|zuHause2>exactly like 90% of the people here
14:19<@Bjarni>actually you can bake bread on heated rocks
14:19<israelite>and hebrew is my third
14:19<fjb>I think english is the second or third language for the most people here.
14:19<israelite>arabic will be my forth
14:19<@Bjarni>then what is your first one?
14:20<israelite>Persian
14:20[~]Bjarni goes back to wondering "why move to Israel?"
14:20<@Bjarni>I thought you guys were against Israel
14:21<dihedral>!commit 11409
14:21<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never heard of anyone speaking persian...
14:21<Gonozal_VIII>israel and usa are close... usa hates iran...
14:21<fjb>Hm, I guess Persian as his first language can explain it..
14:21<israelite>I am Jewish.
14:21<dihedral>!commit r11409
14:21<dihedral>:-S
14:21<skidd13>!commit 11409
14:21<skidd13>@commit 11409
14:21<@DorpsGek>skidd13: Commit by truelight :: r11409 /trunk (3 files in 3 dirs) (2007-11-11 14:32:18 UTC)
14:21<@DorpsGek>skidd13: -Update: as of now, I am a retired Developer, so mark me as such
14:21<@Bjarni>dihedral: -Update: as of now, I am a retired Developer, so mark me as such
14:21<fjb>There are man Jewish people living in Iran.
14:21<israelite>btw, some American Christian group is giving $10,000 for coming to Israel
14:22<@Bjarni>damn, too late :s
14:22<israelite>and another $10,000 to study in Israel
14:22<israelite>plus free education
14:22|-|Osai [~Osai@pD9EB48A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:23<israelite>err sorry
14:23<israelite>the $10,000 for studyig is from the government
14:23<israelite>this is coming to Israel from Iran
14:24<@Bjarni>I wouldn't pay to get to Israel
14:24<@Bjarni>but then again I'm not Jewish
14:24<israelite>well I need to go back home
14:24<dihedral>@seen TrueBrain
14:24<@DorpsGek>dihedral: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 47 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> Ammller: I guess not, if you guys don't ask
14:24<israelite>my back is hurting from sitting on this rock
14:24<Gonozal_VIII>you are really sitting on a rock?
14:25<@Bjarni><israelite> well I need to go back home <-- Hebrew is your 3rd language and you came back home?
14:25<Gonozal_VIII>i thought that was a joke or something
14:25<israelite>to my house
14:25<@Bjarni>ahh
14:26<@Bjarni>somehow it's awesome that israelite is sitting outside in the dark on a rock to leech off some wifi connection :D
14:26<Zuu>But guess it's not that cold in Israel... :)
14:26<israelite>Gonozal_VIII: yes. the villages wifi is currently on the synagogue window. Not roof.
14:26<@Bjarni>we got snow here
14:26<fjb>Here too
14:26<israelite>it is starting to get cold
14:26<Gonozal_VIII>same here
14:26<Zuu>I would rather not sit outdoor here, and its only around 0 degrees here..
14:26<Gonozal_VIII>stupid snow
14:27<israelite>14 tonight
14:27<israelite>it was 9 last night
14:27<skidd13>Rubidium: I tried FS1388. With an old release of modern tram set (I overwrote it accidentaly :( ) and it worked fluently as soon as I tried another version it asserted directly. Might be that the user replaced the stuff. The modern tram set reuses the GRF-ID's but changed the vehicle-ID's. So another version of the grf might cause the this assertion
14:27<fjb>Actually 3°C here.
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>6° now
14:27<@Bjarni>they said on the weather forecast that all the snow would melt right away... but it's completely white outside and below 0°C
14:27<israelite>lol
14:28<skidd13>I'm off for now. CU later
14:28<Gonozal_VIII>cu
14:28<israelite>you should see the weather forecasts in Iran
14:28|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7AD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.]
14:28<@Bjarni>somebody sent in a picture of a snowman in man size (of the snow that melts right away :P )
14:28<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
14:28<israelite>bye
14:28<fjb>It's could here, but we got rid of the wall 18 years ago.
14:28<@Bjarni>israelite: do you guys make sandmans?
14:29|-|israelite [~israelite@bzq-79-181-241-241.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: israelite]
14:29<Gonozal_VIII>that wouldn't work with dry sand
14:29<@Bjarni>looks like the sandman took israelite
14:29<fjb>Sandman? You mean like Logan? :-)
14:29<Gonozal_VIII>enter sandman :-)
14:30<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> that wouldn't work with dry sand <-- I know... it was a joke due to the double meaning of "sandman"
14:30|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:30<@Bjarni>making all the world sleep so they don't detect how Palestine is
14:31<fjb>:-)
14:32<fjb>Many nations are trying to produce sandman... :-(
14:32<huma>mr. sandman is a nice song
14:37<@Bjarni>somehow I think it's awesome that we had a visitor sitting on a rock in the dark night to leech some wifi connection... I think that's a new geek low considering he said that he would get a net connection from home tomorrow
14:39|-|titus [~titus@intter.net] has joined #openttd
14:39<titus>hmm
14:39<titus>does this mean that nightly build is broken?
14:39|-|Entane [~Entane@206.84-48-202.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
14:39<titus>/compile_farm/openttd/nightly/compile_dir/src/gfxinit.cpp:93: failed assertion `b'
14:39<titus>Your 'openttd.grf' file is corrupted or missing! The file was part of your installation.
14:39<titus>mac os x - intel version.
14:40<fjb>Yes, but it's now very intelligent to use such a connection to ask for illegal downloads...
14:40<SmatZ>b
14:40<SpComb>Bjarni: depends what he had to do
14:40<SpComb>and the Real WTF is that you don't have a Wi-Fi network at home!
14:40<titus>WiFi melts your brains :>
14:40<@Bjarni>titus: no it means that you failed to read the readme and do as it says :P
14:41<titus>Bjarni: duh lol.. the error fooled me :/
14:41<SpComb>titus: what size of tin-foil hat do you use?
14:41<titus>I got one from titanium
14:41<Gonozal_VIII>a molten brain is more resistant to damage :-)
14:42|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has joined #openttd
14:42<@Bjarni><SpComb> and the Real WTF is that you don't have a Wi-Fi network at home! <-- I don't... WiFi is half duplex and slow while cat6 ethernet is 1 Gbit and full duplex
14:43[~]SpComb doesn't like to drag around a laptop with a Cat6 cable attatched to it
14:43<titus>Bjarni: except readme.txt doesn't tell what the heck is openttd.grf (not from originalttd datafiles atleast)
14:43<@Bjarni>why would I move the computer away from the chair... I don't have that long arms :s
14:45<titus>+ the stable build (universary binary from downlods) crashes when I click airplane depot in airport :> then I get the damn raimbow and it freezes whole system :>
14:45<titus>universal*
14:45<SmatZ>Bjarni: it is awesome, until police knocks at your door with proofs that from your IP were done illegal things :-p
14:47<@Bjarni>but using WiFi would increase the risk of doing that
14:47<@Bjarni>you see I have to connect though the phoneline so if I should use some sort of wireless I should add the hotspot as well with the risk of somebody else entering my connection and doing stuff
14:48<SmatZ>yup, maybe I misread something
14:48<SmatZ>I thought you said 'it is awesome, somebody was using my wifi to connect to the internet'
14:50<@Bjarni>not MY wifi :P
14:50<@Bjarni>A wifi
14:50<Ailure> mm
14:50<@Bjarni>not mine and not his own either
14:50<@Bjarni>in fact I don't think the owner is here
14:51<@Bjarni>or is aware of his rock sitting in the desert either :P
14:51<Gonozal_VIII>desert?^^
14:51<@Bjarni>isn't the Middle East one big desert?
14:51<Ailure>there's wifi signals
14:51<Ailure>everywhere now
14:52<Ailure>so I think most brains would be melted
14:52<Ailure>it's fun on trains too
14:52<@Bjarni>it has a few houses but outside the houses there is a desert
14:52<Ailure>like when I travel from H$BgT(Bsleholm to Helsingborg
14:52<Ailure>there's a place where I get a wifi connectoin
14:52<Ailure>for like five seconds
14:52<Ailure>:9
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14:53<@Bjarni>but it only takes 1 sec to leech a password on an open connection if you are lucky
14:54<Ailure>like the wifi at my school
14:54<SmatZ>with WEP...
14:54<Ailure>I considered to setup a laptop one day
14:54<Ailure>it's not even WEP
14:54<Ailure>and then just sniff
14:55<Ailure>and see what I can pick up
14:55<Ailure>scary thinjg, it's a rather transparent process too
14:55<SmatZ>I see sometimes people running wifi tools to capture packets...
14:55<Ailure>so none can tell i'm doing it
14:56<Ailure>'I'm not the type who uses credit card numbers I find or anything though
14:56<Ailure>i'm too nice for that
14:56<SmatZ>most people are too nice to do that
14:57<Ailure>I am a grey hat after all
14:57<Ailure>I might not always do legal stuff, but I do have my morals :)
14:58<Gonozal_VIII>grey hat?
14:58<Ailure>hacker term
14:58<Ailure>a white hat is a legal hacker
14:58<Ailure>black illegal
14:58<Ailure>grey is a somewhat inbetween
14:59<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_hat
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15:00<gono_ping_timeout>stupid disconnection every 8 hours...
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15:04<slafs_>Is there a way to disable electrified rails so electric enginges can run on normal tracks?
15:05<gono_ping_timeout>configure patches, vehicles tab
15:05<@Bjarni> <Ailure> I might not always do legal stuff, but I do have my morals :) <--- but even in the very basic security theory you have to assume no moral at all at the users and outside users
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15:07<Ailure>Bjarni: Very true
15:07<Ailure>Always expect the worst
15:07<Ailure>in security
15:07<Ailure>one rule of thumb
15:08<Ailure>which I see usually broken against is
15:08<Ailure>"If X don't need Y, don't give him access to Y"
15:09<Ailure>that's usually broken with homeservers
15:09<Ailure>such as people putting FTP/HTTP on their root... or even filesharing programs.
15:10<fjb>:-)
15:13<Ailure>hilarious what kind of private stuff you can find floating around
15:13<Ailure>becuse the user was careless when setting up his P2P program
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15:18<slafs_>Gonozal_VIII: thanks. Do you know how to do that in openttd.cfg? I'm configuring a dedicated server.
15:20<Gonozal_VIII>no
15:20<Zuu>Now I don't know that you are trying to do, but I usually set the settings using GUI and then scp over the openttd.cfg to the server.
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15:21<Zuu>Unless it is the server-settings that are found under [server] in the openttd.cfg-file.
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15:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11414 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1387]: when building a station, even though we already 'know' it in memory, it should still be unknown in the realm of callbacks.
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15:43<KaareMai>Hello, i have a question: I've started a multiplayer server in the year 1940. But no one can build rails. Why is that?
15:43<KaareMai>The year is now 1942
15:44<Gonozal_VIII>there seems to be no train engines available
15:44<KaareMai>But why is that? Shouldn't steam engines be available from that time?
15:44<KaareMai>I haven't put in new train sets or anything
15:45<KaareMai>The climate is Sub-Tropical
15:45<+glx>nothing before 1950 in tropic IIRC
15:45<Rubidium>there's your first part of the problem; trains in subtropical come very late
15:45<KaareMai>oohh, thats nice to know hehe
15:45<KaareMai>Well, then we'll have todo with trucks until then :)
15:46<Gonozal_VIII>46
15:46<Gonozal_VIII>(i started a game and cheated the time up.. there is a train in 1946
15:46<Gonozal_VIII>)
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15:47<KaareMai>Thanks :)
15:47<Ammller>KaareMai: there is a patch setting for building before trains are available, imo
15:47<KaareMai>Okay
15:47<Ammller>so you could prepare it :P
15:48<Ammller>or is it a cheat?
15:48<SmatZ>you would need to patch both server and clients
15:48<SmatZ>no...
15:49<Ammller>hmm, patch setting, not patch
15:50<SmatZ>really is it a patch setting?
15:50<SmatZ>hmm
15:50<SmatZ>yes
15:50<Ammller>no idea
15:50<SmatZ>of course
15:50<Ammller>:)
15:50<Ammller>but its not in the GUI?
15:51<SmatZ>Interface -> Show building...
15:51<Gonozal_VIII>i think i saw it in the gui... but could have been some *in
15:51<SmatZ>but it works only for airports and docks
15:52<Zuu>Or you do a year cheat to 1950 and then back to 1940 again.
15:53<Gonozal_VIII>that works?
15:53<Zuu>As long as you don't accidently type resetengines and hit enter in the console ;)
15:53<Gonozal_VIII>yes..
15:53<KaareMai>Towns in the sub-tropic needs food AND water or only one of them to grow?
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15:56<Eddi|zuHause>both
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>but only in desert
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15:58<KaareMai>Okay so desert cities need food & water to grow. Towns in green areas need nothing but passenger transport to begin growing
16:00<Zuu>Yes.
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16:00<Ailure>bah stupid twitch
16:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11415 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Fix [FS#1428]: do not ignore the autorenew settings for new games when creating a new game.
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16:32<Rubidium>skidd13: about FS#1388, it's certainly an issue with the articulated vehicles as one can see in the savegame I posted.
16:32<Rubidium>oh, and could you look at FS#1417 (town layout issue)
16:33<skidd13>I'll check 1417
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16:57<skidd13>@logs
16:57<skidd13>!logs
16:57<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
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17:03<ln->http://koo.toosa.net/Thai06/images/thai06_018.jpg
17:04<Gonozal_VIII>?
17:05<ln->dumping fuel, i've been told
17:05<SmatZ>drunk pilot?
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17:05|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
17:06<Gonozal_VIII>problems with the landing gear or why dump the fuel?
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>you generally dump fuel before performing an emergency landing
17:07<Gonozal_VIII>but you don't circle around if there is an urgent emergency
17:07<ln->Gonozal_VIII: dumping fuel is a standard procedure if you have to land earlier than planned.
17:08<ln->Gonozal_VIII: well you have to dump the fuel before you land.
17:09<Gonozal_VIII>that's only possible through burning it?
17:09<Rubidium>no, but there isn't a big door in the fuel tanks
17:09<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: That depends on the airplane.
17:09<Rubidium>they have to pump the fuel out of the tanks
17:09<ln->no, no, it's not burned at all when dumping fuel.
17:10<fjb>The Boing 737 is not able to dump fuel, it must be burnd.
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>the name is Boeing ;)
17:10<fjb>Oh, ok. :-)
17:11<fjb>But sometimes it goes boing... :-)
17:11<ln->fjb: interesting; is there some way to burn it quicker than usually then?
17:11<Rubidium>fjb: so you're royally screwed when a 737 has landing gear problems and needs to return ASAP to the airport
17:11<ln->Rubidium: i don't see why a landing gear problem specifically would require returning ASAP
17:11<Rubidium>as you need to fly quite a few hours burning fuel till the tanks are empty enough that it is relatively safe enough to attempt langing
17:11<fjb>ln-: Not that I know.
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>fire on board or something like that...
17:12|-|israelite [~israelite@87.69.13.147.cable.012.net.il] has joined #openttd
17:12<Rubidium>ln-: one wheel not retracting?
17:12<israelite>hello
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>hi.. on the rocks again?
17:12<israelite>how do I make a city with blocks
17:12<fjb>Yes, but mty tanks are not that better than full tanks. Most oil tankers explode when they are emty.
17:12<ln->Rubidium: is that urgent?
17:13<fjb>emty
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>not really you can fly around with the gear out
17:13<israelite>no on the swing
17:13<Rubidium>well, I don't think they let you fly transatlantic when gears won't retract
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: but not as far as you planned
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>ah ok..
17:13<israelite>I mean with straight roads
17:14<Gonozal_VIII>but also no need to land asap
17:14<ln->wikipedia says: "737s are not equipped with fuel dump systems. Depending upon the nature of the emergency, 737s either circle to burn-off fuel or land overweight."
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>israelite: in nightly, there is an option "town road layout"
17:14<fjb>The Boeing 737 is not the only plane that can not dump fuel. But I don't have a list of which can and which not.
17:14<israelite>I am using nightly
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>there you can select "2x2 grid"
17:14<israelite>but I do not see this option
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>in patch settings under the construction tab i assume...
17:15<ln->"patch" settings
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>economy tab
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>5. from the bottom
17:16<israelite>not there
17:16<Rubidium>what does your titlebar say?
17:16<fjb>It's under patches/economy
17:16<israelite>I only have 9 options under that tab
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>you're not using a nightly then
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>at least not a new one
17:17<israelite>thank you!
17:17<+glx>answer Rubidium's question :)
17:17<israelite>I am using the latest
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>there are lots of latest versions^^
17:17<israelite>11399
17:18<israelite>I need to get inside
17:18<israelite>not wearing warm clothing
17:18<israelite>this is the latest version right?
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>titlebar says OpenTTD r11399 and there are only 9 options in configure patches/economy?
17:19<+glx>latest nightly is 11413
17:19<israelite>Gonozal_VIII: no. In contrustion
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>economy
17:19<israelite>okay downloading it
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>it is also in 11399 but under economy tab
17:19<+glx>anyway town layout are in trunk for a long time now
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17:21<israelite>yes I got it
17:21<israelite>thanks
17:21<israelite>500kb left of downloading
17:21<israelite>then I will be off
17:21<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
17:21<israelite>I am going to start walking home...
17:22<Gonozal_VIII>how far is that?
17:22<israelite>3 min
17:22<Gonozal_VIII>^^
17:22<israelite>but internet cuts off 1min to my home
17:23<Gonozal_VIII>you walk 3 min from home to sit on a rock and ask about town road layout...
17:23<israelite>but once they get the router on the roof... then it will reach my home
17:23<israelite>okay it is about to cut off
17:23<israelite>bye
17:23<ln->ok, i was told that the previous fuel dump picture was related to a swede hitting a stewardess with his fist.
17:23<Gonozal_VIII>bye
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17:23<skidd13>Rubidium: FS#1417 is IMO not a bug it's a feature
17:24<Gonozal_VIII>they turn the plane around because of that?
17:24<ln->why not?
17:25<ln->something similar also has happened tonight on a finnair flight from helsinki, and the plane did turn back.
17:25<Gonozal_VIII>because of the other passengers missing whatever it is they want to do at their destination?
17:25<fjb>They turned planes around because somebody left a papersheet in the toilet or a homosexual couple was kissing. They fear terrorism everywhere.
17:25<ln->http://www.hs.fi/teksti/tuoreet/artikkeli/1135231748314
17:25<Gonozal_VIII>wtf kissing is terrorism?
17:26<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Don't ask me.
17:28<Gonozal_VIII>when somebody hits a stewardess i would have him arrested at the destination but i certainly wouldn't turn the plane around... unless the stewardess is hurt badly
17:31<ln->Gonozal_VIII: and what would you do with the suspect in the meanwhile?
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>depends on the circumstances...
17:32<fjb>Throw him out of the door. :-)
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
17:33<Gonozal_VIII>i'm sure some passengers would help to keep him under control... they also don't want to fly back
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17:34|-|John changed nick to lolman
17:34<ln->Gonozal_VIII: would you like to spend your 10-hour flight (physically) keeping under control someone who is 1) big, 2) drunk, 3) under the influence of drugs?
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17:35<Gonozal_VIII>yes i would prefer that instead of flying back
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>or 4) dealing with a furious crowd?
17:36<ln->like in this finnair case i just pasted, there were two violent passengers for whom 1)..3) were true.
17:37<Wolf01>'night
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17:38<ln->Eddi|zuHause: what kind of a world do you live in, if the crowd is not worried about their own safety if one passenger is violently attacking others or the crew?
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>i mean that the other way round
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>if the crowd gets furious while supposedly dealing with the two guys
17:39<ln->ah
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>and you as a plane crew has to get also the crowd under control
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17:40<ln->i'll direct my question to Gonozal_VIII instead then.
17:41<Gonozal_VIII>two people should be able to control the guy without the risk of getting hurt i think
17:42<skidd13>Rubidium: Comments about FS 1429 ?
17:42<ln->Gonozal_VIII: how tall are you?
17:42<Gonozal_VIII>178
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>and how do you decide which two people are physically or mentally able to control someone?
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>i mean unless you have a skymarshal on board or something, who might be trained for that kind of stuff
17:43<Rubidium>skidd13: it's a compiler bug, not something we should 'fix' by simple casting random variables into something that is 'bigger' in size.
17:43<Rubidium>and there are no 'real' 2 bit values
17:43<ln->Gonozal_VIII: yes, two people are usually able to control a guy, assuming the two people are trained police officers or similar.
17:44<Rubidium>I can easily create a signal type with 4 bits: SignalType s = (SignalType)7; <- there
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17:44<skidd13>Rubidium: agreed so we keep the warning ;)
17:46<ln->Gonozal_VIII: have you ever tried to keep under control someone who is fighting back?
17:48<Gonozal_VIII>as a kid sometimes but not yet in a dangerous situation
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17:50<ln->also who is responsible if the suspect happens to die during the flight while he's being kept under control by (most likely) untrained people?
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17:51<Gonozal_VIII>if it is really that bad you would of course have to turn around but i am thinking about your average drunk stupidhead
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17:52<ln->also, if i was on a vacation and planning to watch the sights and enjoy a book during the flight, i wouldn't want to spend 10 hours controlling a drunk stupidhead instead.
17:53<Gonozal_VIII>when it's either that or not going at all i would prefer that
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17:56<ln->where did you get the idea that "not noing at all" is an option?
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17:58<Gonozal_VIII>it's not always easy to change what you have planned... you could be on the way to some important meeting or something else that can't be changed
18:00<ln->sure, but there are various reasons why a flight could be delayed by few hours or even more. if you have planned too tight a schedule, it's hard to blame others.
18:01<Gonozal_VIII>it's not about the blame it's about how important it is for you not to turn back... if it is very important you will help to keep that guy under control
18:01<ln->what if the captain gets sick during the flight? is it a reason to turn back or land?
18:02<ln->you know, the copilot is very well able to fly the plane himself, and most flying is done by autopilot anyway.
18:03<Gonozal_VIII>depends on his condition... if it will get worse during the long flight it makes sense to turn back, it it doesn't it wouldn't help because you have to land anyways
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18:08<Gonozal_VIII>it's not easy to decide but i would keep the probability of planes to turn around as low as possible
18:09<ln->Gonozal_VIII: if people don't feel safe during the flight, that's a lot worse than being late.
18:09<Rubidium>I think I'm rather delayed 4 hours than delayed infinitively
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>i don't get it why people are so concerned about safety in planes while it's much more dangerous to even cross the street
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18:12<Rubidium>using what statistics? miles of crossing the street?
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18:14<Rubidium>it's like: are you going to cross a busy road somewhere in the middle, or do you walk the extra few (hundred) meters so you can cross at a traffic light?
18:14<Rubidium>i.e. it's all about risk avoidance
18:14<Rubidium>if you can easily avoid some risks, you should take the opportunity
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>how would you die because two guys are kissing in a plane?
18:14<Rubidium>it's like driving slower when the roads are icy
18:15<Rubidium>because they are have swallowed some liquid that explodes when they are combined?
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>*rofl*
18:18<Rubidium>and the reason for returning was probably not only the fact that they were kissing
18:20<ln->Gonozal_VIII: i'll emphasize the word *feel* in "*feel* safe"
18:21<ln->if people don't feel safe on the plane, they won't fly again with that airline, or at all if it can be avoided.
18:21<ln->it doesn't matter if the statistics say they are more likely to die being hit by a car.
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>but making a big deal out of everything isn't gonna help with that
18:22<ln->"everything"
18:23<ln->a relatively big airline like finnair has one or two cases per year when they need to return because of violent passengers.
18:23<Gonozal_VIII>nobody pulls the emergency brakes on a train if somebody hits the bord service guy...
18:24<@Bjarni>trains aren't likely to fall 10 km either
18:24<Rubidium>no, but the train will stop at the first possible station with police to get the guy arrested.
18:24<@Bjarni>actually it's a mental thing at the passengers
18:24<+glx>depends on how high is the bridge ;)
18:24<@Bjarni>everybody can relate to the fact that a train will stay on the ground and likely on the rails
18:25<@Bjarni>but something as big as a aircraft fighting gravity.... most people don't understand how this is possible
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm
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18:26<@Bjarni>you can reduce the risk of a plane crash by by 90% and people will still feel as unsafe flying as they do now
18:26<@Bjarni>people who understands statistics and physics aren't afraid and people who don't and are will be nomatter what you do
18:27<Gonozal_VIII>ok, that makes sense i guess..
18:29<ln->i remember two cases in finland where the conductor was attacked in the train
18:30<@Bjarni>only two?
18:30<ln->yeah, could be bad memory
18:31<@Bjarni>or they keep it a secret
18:31<@Bjarni>"we have an attacked conductor once a month... oh and we are hiring more conductors... anybody interested?"
18:32<Gonozal_VIII>^^
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18:32<ln->in first case the train had just departed Tampere, and they made an unscheduled stop at a station 15 km later, instead of proceeding the next 100 or 200 km through an uninhabited area with only forest and swamps.
18:33<ln->i'm sure they were late because of that.
18:33<@Bjarni>so? unscheduled stops happens all the time
18:34<ln->they got late
18:34<ln->the train could have very well continued the next 200 km.
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18:36<@Bjarni>I don't see a problem (yet?)
18:36<Gonozal_VIII>there's a big difference between stopping a train and landing a plane
18:37<Rubidium>yes, a train stops automatically when something goes wrong, a plane doesn't land automatically
18:38<+glx>they can do
18:38<@Bjarni>ln-: so the train crew were attacked because the train became a few minutes late due to an unscheduled stop?
18:39<ln->Bjarni: no, the stop was *because* of the attack, not the other way round.
18:39<ln->in the second case the conductor was stabbed dangerously, and military police men who happened to be on the train arrested the suspect, and treated the conductor.
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18:40<ln->military police = a set of normal young men serving their compulsory military service
18:41<@Bjarni>but why were they attacked?
18:42<ln->for asking people's tickets or something as insulting
18:45<@Bjarni>some people are weird
18:46<ln->btw, over here a police officer in his uniform can travel for tree on trains, on the condition that (s)he walks through the whole train once.
18:47<@Bjarni>so they can pay with a tree instead of a normal ticket? :P
18:47<Gonozal_VIII>hehehehe
18:48<@Bjarni>here McDonald's decided to give a discount to police officers in uniform (only a certain one that had pick pocket problems). It ended up being a political issue in the government because "you can't buy the police to be at a specific location"
18:48<ln->Bjarni: errr... for *f*ree
18:48<ln->i guess others figured that out
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18:49<@Bjarni>somehow I think it's a good place for the police to show up if it's hit by pick pocketing thieves daily
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>that doesn't necessarily mean more safety... i was in a crowded tram with a police officer traveling somewhere with his gun open on the belt... anybody could have taken that gun probably without him even noticing
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18:50<@Bjarni>agreed
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18:51<@Bjarni>but odds are that pocket thieves will find somewhere else if the police is present
18:51<@Bjarni><ln-> i guess others figured that out <-- me too but replying to what you actually wrote were more fun :P
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18:52<ln->(took 6 minutes for Bjarni)
18:52<Ailure>hmm
18:52<@Bjarni>no
18:52<@Bjarni>but I was writing something else
18:52<@Bjarni>the reply to you just got queued
18:55<Ailure>rm -rf /
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20:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11416 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix(r11411): For once, the warnings of MSVC are not useless. Inversion of the two parameters of DoTriggerHouse cause a complain which was legit, in this case
20:11<fjb>Good night
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20:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11417 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix[FS#1421]: Let the main viewport stay where the vehicle was last seen while been center-followed
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20:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11418 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix (r11416): forgot an instance
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 12 00:00:25 2007