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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-15

---Logopened Thu Nov 15 00:00:08 2007
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02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11432 /extra/ottd_grf/ (28 files in 2 dirs): -Add: source files used to create the (New)GRF files that will be used for OTTD version from r11433 and 0.6.
02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11433 /trunk/ (29 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: starting OpenTTD with DOS files made it look weird out of the box.
02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: make extra sprites (the ones not in the TTD GRFs) replaceable using Action 5.
02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: make replacing contiguous subsets of sprites in for some types possible in Action 5.
02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Note to GRF authors: when you replaced OpenTTD sprites that are not from the TTD
02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: GRF files using Action A, your GRF will not have the intended result anymore as
02:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: the sprite numbers have changed. You should replace the Action A with an Action
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03:56<dihedral>you quite bunch!
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04:08<mikk36|work>hey ;(
04:08<mikk36|work>what is the latest version of autopilot ?
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04:21<dihedral>mikk36|work: there is a release version 2.0.4 and a svn version
04:22<dihedral>i would suggest you go for the svn one
04:22<mikk36|work>link maybe ?
04:22<dihedral>there is information in the forums if you search for autopilot
04:22<dihedral> :-)
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05:11[~]dihedral pats Sacro on the head
05:14<dihedral>Sacro: you play other games too?
05:14<Sacro>dihedral: yep
05:17<dihedral>or are you only into strategy :-P
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05:23<Sacro>what is ET?
05:25<mikk36|work>enemy territory
05:26<Sacro>ah, never played it
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05:41<Sacro>oh noes
05:42<Sacro>I had a strange friend who said he had dug a hole and filled it with water.
05:42<Sacro>I thought to myself, "he means well."
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05:47<Sacro>ahh sweet
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05:53<dihedral>hello :-)
05:55<dihedral>Rubidium: regarding the posts i was refering to yesterday late afternoon:
05:56<dihedral>dont think i could get more to the point
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06:36<dihedral>wb Ammller :-)
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10:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r11434 /trunk/src/lang/finnish.txt: -Fix: fixed a string in finnish (suggested by ln-)
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10:18<Gonozal_VIII>should alpine climate work with r11430?
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10:20<Rubidium>alpine climate?
10:21<Gonozal_VIII>the grf
10:21<LeviathNL>Gonozal_VIII, yes
10:21<Rubidium>the one that has snow in temperate?
10:22<Rubidium>don't think it will do snow in temperate, because that is AFAIAA not implemented
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>ah... i see
10:22<Rubidium>but then again, I can be wrong
10:23<frosch123>but alpine runs a top of subartic, not temperate
10:23<dihedral>should work
10:24<@Belugas>try ti :)
10:24<Rubidium>then why has it green grass in the grfcrawler entry?
10:24<Gonozal_VIII>didn't look if subarctic changed...
10:24<Gonozal_VIII>but have to leave now, that will have to wait some hours
10:25<dihedral>Rubidium: it does that
10:25<dihedral>it will actually let the snow dissapear in spring and let it snow again at the end of the year
10:26<dihedral>and it _only_ works in a sub arctic (hilly) climate
10:26<Rubidium>in that case Gonozal_VIII should've been able to see a difference in subarctic
10:26<dihedral>i have had no issues with it when i tried it
10:27<dihedral>but i did not try it with that rev
10:27<dihedral>hence i sais 'should' work
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12:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11435 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: show all players who have shares, not just the first two. Patch by SmatZ.
12:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11437 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Change: when sorting stations by cargo sum, only sum the cargos that are selected in the filter. Patch by divide.
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13:00<oh>does anyone here run the os x nightlies?
13:01<Ammler>oh: depense, ppc has dihedral and Osai
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13:01<oh>the intel ones that is
13:02<Ammler>oh and if you have a question about, just ask...
13:02<Rubidium>what's the problem?
13:02<oh>I just get the following in terminal; -bash: ./openttd: cannot execute binary file
13:02<oh>and I'm not sure what I've done wrong ;)
13:02<Rubidium>it's an application bundle
13:02<Rubidium>something OSX specific
13:02<Rubidium>you probably have to cd into the bundle first and find the real binary
13:02<oh>yeah, that's the binary
13:03<Rubidium>what version?
13:03<Rubidium>of OSX that is
13:03<oh> --- any nightly I've tried so far
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13:04<Rubidium>Leopard isn't quite supported yet
13:04<Rubidium>Apple did break a lot in that release
13:04<Rubidium>though there's a bugreport at about it which might have useful information for you
13:04<oh>ah.. I run 0.5.3 fine, but I guess you lot have switched alot around ;P
13:04<oh>cool, I'll check it out :)
13:05<Rubidium>could also be that the binaries from the nightly server aren't 10.5 compatible
13:06<oh>guess I'll have to attempt a compile myself then
13:06<oh>cheers for the help :)
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11438 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Change: do not create shores in canyons. Based on a patch by LeviathNL.
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13:18<Wolf01>mmmh.. peter1138 m.i.a. ... truebrain retired... celestar disappeared... any chance to have massive changes to openttd now? (i'm talking about the economy balance project and some other ideas)
13:20<hylje>rubidium, belugas, frosch..
13:21<Wolf01>me O_O
13:21[~]Wolf01 hides
13:22<hylje>im also looking to research c++ a bit, possibly some patches will be sent
13:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11439 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp viewport.h window.h): -Codechange: replace some magic numbers by a ViewportPlaceMethod enumified constant. Patch by SmatZ.
13:22[~]Wolf01 is now more motivated to continue the brickland climate!
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13:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11440 /trunk/src/ (16 files): -Codechange: replace magic numbers with enumified WindowHighlightMode constants. Patch by SmatZ.
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13:43<@Belugas>thanks Born_Acorn
13:44<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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13:49<Gonozal_VIII>ok, alpine works :-) just didn't expect it to be in subarctic
13:56<Gonozal_VIII>44 different industries O_o
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14:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11441 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1443]: manage list dropdown menu did not "disappear" when the all vehicles are removed from the "current" group.
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14:20<@Belugas>teething, for a british, means what exactly?
14:23<Gonozal_VIII><-- not british but i think he was referring to problems with a new version... like a baby that needs much care because it's teething
14:23<Gonozal_VIII>and he broke the table
14:24<Gonozal_VIII>ah.. wrokg thread
14:25<@Belugas>no, not that meaning. Like in the sentence "a teething audio mixer", "a teething guitar" etc...
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14:26<Gonozal_VIII>that doesn't make sense for me...
14:27<@Belugas>thus me asking ;)
14:28<Wolf01>i think is when you have a faulty instrument which makes nasty sounds when you play it
14:29[~]Belugas is gone. Thanks for help, Wolf01
14:29<Wolf01>or maybe it have something other meaning, but i need a full sentence to know it
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2><Belugas> no, not that meaning. Like in the sentence "a teething audio mixer", "a teething guitar" etc... <-- err... i was more expecting something about children getting their teeth...
14:31<Rubidium>teething ring is a correct word and means a ring shaped piece of rubber where teething children chew on, so maybe it's an audio mixer/guitar where young children can chew on
14:32<SmatZ>in UK, childer love to chew guitars
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>i think wolf could be right
14:38<SmatZ> a game at 32x zoom-out
14:40<Gonozal_VIII>and without pause?
14:40<Gonozal_VIII>does that work?
14:41<SmatZ>well... it is very slow
14:41<SmatZ>but nice to look at :)
14:43<Gonozal_VIII>should disable all those little animations that you don't see anyways
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15:29<Wolf01> what do you think?
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15:46<LeviathNL>nice Wolf01
15:48<Wolf01>thank you :)
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15:49<Gonozal_VIII>yes... nice... but toyland...
15:50<Wolf01>now is toyland, tomorrow it will be brickland!
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>1. Brickland
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>2. ???
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>3. Profit
15:51<Gonozal_VIII>underpants gnomes :D
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15:53<bananafly>Is it possible to replace the intro loop thingy
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15:54<Gonozal_VIII>it's just a normal savegame
15:54<Gonozal_VIII>opntitle.dat in the data folder
15:54<Gonozal_VIII>rename it to .sav and load
15:54<Wolf01>why profit? i'm doing this for the community, to have a full replacement for a scenery that nobody will redraw.. call it "the beginning of original graphics replacement project"
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15:55<Gonozal_VIII>he was talking about southpark season 2 episode 17
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16:15<ln->Bjarni: o/
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16:24<@Bjarni>I see that you are happy to see me
16:24<Gonozal_VIII>yay bjarni *jumps around in triangles*
16:24<Gonozal_VIII>better? :-)
16:26<@Bjarni>sucking up will not make me commit your requests :P
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16:27<Gonozal_VIII>hehe, didn't request anything
16:27<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: request bugs from Bjarni
16:27<@Bjarni>but you want to when you feel like your sucking up works
16:28<@Bjarni>bug requests.... if they are intentional then they will not be bugs
16:28<Rubidium>well, if Gonozal_VIII requests them from you, you will not commit them
16:28<@Bjarni>it could be crashes and such but if I made them intentionally then it wouldn't fit the definition of a bug
16:28<Rubidium>which is the whole point
16:29<ln->Bjarni: does this thing called "OpenTTD" compile for you currently?
16:29<Gonozal_VIII>then you just have to fake a request for every bug you find and you are fine ;-)
16:29<@Bjarni>ln-: maybe... do you have a problem?
16:29<Rubidium>ln-: probably has Leopard
16:29<@Bjarni>I mean game related... I don't want to hear about some girl you can't get :P
16:30[~]ln- has Leopard at work, yes
16:30<ln->and that's what i was compiling on
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16:30<@Bjarni>we have yet to solve all leopard issues
16:31<ln->linking failed due to /usr/lib/libfreetypesomething and another file not found
16:31<@Bjarni>the fact that I'm too cheap to invest in leopard at the moment doesn't help in solving the issues
16:31<ln->Bjarni: but it used to compile and work at one point!
16:31<Rubidium>ln-: look at the for more information about leopard
16:31<@Bjarni>yeah somebody already reported an issue with x11 freetype or something in leopard
16:31<Rubidium>there's one comment that tells you how you can make it work (IIRC)
16:32<ln->why has someone broken it?
16:32<@Bjarni>using the tiger version of that lib solved it
16:32<@Bjarni><ln-> why has someone broken it? <-- I don't know
16:32<Gonozal_VIII>leopard, tiger, wtf?
16:32<ln->Gonozal_VIII: animals
16:32<@Bjarni>I don't think I would release leopard in the state that it's in right now
16:33<@Bjarni>I hope that 10.5.1 will be better
16:33<@Bjarni>or I will stay with tiger
16:33<ln->Bjarni: 10.4.11 out, btw
16:33<@Bjarni>I noticed
16:33<Gonozal_VIII>german tanks :-)
16:33<ln->also 10.5.1 is out
16:33<@Bjarni>I didn't notice that
16:34<ln->at least a topic on one channel claims so
16:34<ln->Bjarni: but wtf, i compiled it, ran it today, on Leopard, no local changes; then i said "svn up" and it wouldn't link anymore.
16:34<ln->NOT FUNNY
16:35<Gonozal_VIII>so you broke it with svn up
16:35<@Bjarni>Flash (YouTube, etc.) broken under Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5) <-- wtf
16:36<ln->none of you would have any limbs left if Tron was a Leopard user and was still here.
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16:37<@Bjarni>but you used to be able to compile?
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16:37<Rubidium>ln-: first of all, Tron would then made sure that it worked before Leopard would be released. He would also properly reimplement the whole video/music backend stuff to match the API. But then again, the likelihood that Tron will use OSX seems virtually 0
16:38<ln->Bjarni: yes
16:39<ln->Bjarni: i even ran it in fullscreen mode, and it worked. (all this at work, yes)
16:39<@Bjarni>maybe going back to an earlier version will make it compile...
16:40<@Bjarni>for all we know the 10.5.1 update killed it
16:40<ln->but i did not install 10.5.1
16:40<ln->it wasn't available earlier today
16:40<ln->in fact, i didn't install any updates between the state where i could compile and the state where i couldn't.
16:41<@Bjarni>that makes it hard to blame something else :(
16:43<@Bjarni>but then I will return to the statement that some revision breaks it
16:44<Rubidium>so now it's ln-'s turn again ;)
16:45<ln->ok, i'm remotely waking up the computer right now...
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16:48<@Bjarni>ln-: disabling the need for the lib in question should also do it (even though that wouldn't be the right solution)
16:49<ln->Bjarni: what's the configure script for if it doesn't do it for me?
16:49<ln->with current revision:
16:49<ln->i686-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: /usr/X11/lib/libpng.a: No such file or directory
16:49<ln->i686-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: /usr/X11/lib/libfreetype.a: No such file or directory
16:50<@Bjarni>try to disable the need for those two libs and see if it compiles
16:50<ln->why the hell is it trying to link statically anyway?
16:51<@Bjarni>that is actually a pretty good question
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16:52<@Bjarni>ln-: ./configure --disable-static
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16:52<@Bjarni>try that one
16:52<Rubidium>Bjarni: wasn't there an issue with a custom library for the universal binary?
16:52<ln->atm i'm trying revision 11389
16:53<@Bjarni>Rubidium: there still is but I presume that ln- isn't trying to make a universal binary
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16:54<ln->r11389 doesn't link either....
16:55<@Bjarni>ln-: try to configure a dynamic build
16:55<ln->i'll try that next
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16:59<@Bjarni>static is indeed enabled by default
17:00<@Bjarni>looks like it doesn't make sense on Leopard
17:00<@Bjarni>as they added the needed libs
17:01<ln->ok, it linked that way.
17:03<@Bjarni>ok then I know what the problem is
17:03<@Bjarni>now the question is... how do I fix it the right way without killing the nightly build server and usability on tiger and other OSes
17:04<@Bjarni>a quick fix will break MorphOS :(
17:04<ln->and the question remains why did it link before, since i don't remember installing any updates that would have *removed* those .a files.
17:05<@Bjarni>I can't answer that question
17:05<@Bjarni>Apple generally avoids adding the static libs which is ok since they ensure that all the computers have the libs installed
17:05<@Bjarni>those libs shouldn't be statically linked
17:06<@Bjarni>what version of libfontconfig do you have?
17:07<@Bjarni>"pkg-config fontconfig --modversion" <-- in case you don't know how to check it
17:08<ln->its version is: -bash: pkg-config: command not found
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17:08<@Bjarni>I have 2.1.0 and OpenTTD needs at least 2.3.0 so it's disabled
17:09<ln->i don't have anything like fink or darwinports installed on that computer.
17:09<@Bjarni>Apple removed fontconfig???
17:09<Rubidium>they removed pkg-config
17:10<@Bjarni>then how do we find fontconfig?
17:10<ln->Bjarni: just for the record, i don't have pkg-config on Tiger either.
17:10<ln->not even in /sw/bin
17:10<dihedral>but fink?
17:10<Rubidium>but wasn't there a requirement that some fink stuff needed to be installed?
17:10<@Bjarni>the basic game core will work without fink
17:11<ln->i have fink on the Tiger machine
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17:11<@Bjarni>and it looks like Apple added libpng so we can just link to that one
17:11<@Bjarni>and we removed the need for SDL
17:12<dihedral>good night
17:12<dihedral>off to bed :-P
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17:14<@Bjarni>looks like I got pkg-config from fink
17:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11442 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: make news messages related to the industry (production) changes better configurable; you can now disable news messages popping up for industries you are not servicing. Patch by Alberth.
17:24<@Bjarni>ln-: what does "uname -r" return?
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17:50<huma>there are no pass-through stations in 0.5.3?
17:50<Rubidium>only for trains
17:52<@Bjarni>ln-: I fixed it :D
17:52<huma>Rubidium, hmm.. do you write in ruby? :)
17:52<@Bjarni>however I will not commit it right now because it breaks universal binaries and I wonder how the nightly build server will react
17:53<huma>Bjarni, right, don't do that - let me checkout the current revision first :)
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17:56<ln->what have decided about away nicks?
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17:58<SmatZ> 2048x2048 map at 64x zoom-out ... really, there is no need for less detail level :-D
17:59<+glx>probably slow as hell
18:00<Rubidium>you might want to increase the sprite memory a little
18:01<Rubidium>SmatZ: it still will not fit on my screen
18:01<Rubidium>(I think)
18:01<Rubidium>probably the outer three water tiles fall off or so
18:02<exe>button panel at the center of the screen?
18:02<+glx>exe: yes it's configurable
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18:04<SmatZ>glx: yes, it is slow...
18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>such a huge resolution, and i have still black borders at the left and right...
18:04<SmatZ>Rubidium: I modified some values, and it is not as slow as it could be...
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18:04<SmatZ>problem is that almost whole screen has to be redrawn in every frame...
18:04<SmatZ>night Wolf01
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18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>you could reduce that by the zoom factor or something
18:06<SmatZ>hmm 32bpp blitter doesn't seem to like this :-x
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18:20<@Bjarni>ln-: <-- this should do it
18:21<@Bjarni>basically it will force dynamic linking on the libs in question on Leopard if you aren't building a universal binary
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18:54<@Bjarni>ln-: did you test this?
18:54|-|Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:54<ln->not yet
18:54<ln->i went to sleep half an hour ago
18:55<ln->testing now
18:58<ln->did link
18:59<Frostregen>are the old elrail.grf/2ccmap.grf/canalsw.grf all packed inside openttdw.grf now?
19:03<@Bjarni>ln-: with the default configuration?
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19:07<ln->Bjarni: i did make clean ; ./configure ; make
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19:18<ln->Bjarni: btw, what's the resolution of the icon?
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19:22<ln->Bjarni: you know, Leopard supports large icons, 512×512.
19:23<ln->possibly even icons in vector format; not sure.
19:25<+glx>Frostregen: yes, they are action5 now
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19:28<Frostregen>already figured it out and working again
19:28<Frostregen>but thx :)
19:29<Frostregen>surprisingly it was working again, before i understood why =)
19:32<Eddi|zuHause2>that is how 95% of the world works
19:33<Frostregen>most time it is the other way round ;)
19:33<Frostregen>it does not work, and you don't know why
19:35<Eddi|zuHause2>well, occasionally it does not work, you know why, but you can do nothing against it
19:35<Frostregen>yes...especially if you are forced to use some stupid framework
19:38<Frostregen>*don't think about work*
19:40<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: you know, Leopard supports large icons, 512×512 <-- hmm.... we better make a new one then
19:40<@Bjarni>it's "only" 128x128
19:40<@Bjarni>downscaled from 1024x1024
19:41<@Bjarni>the question is... where did I put the big image....
19:50<Eddi|zuHause2>err... something is odd...
19:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i moved some files from one disk to another
19:51<@Bjarni>and they appeared on the other disk?
19:51<Eddi|zuHause2>/dev/hda4 76G 71G 5,0G 94%
19:51<Eddi|zuHause2>/dev/sdb1 466G 459G 7,3G 99%
19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>/dev/hda4 76G 69G 6,3G 92%
19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>/dev/sdb1 466G 466G 136M 100%
19:53<Eddi|zuHause2>(i leave it as an exercise to the reader to check the constraint that after moving, the free space should stay the same)
19:56<ln->1) you have files still open, 2) run fsck
20:00<Tefad>unix doesn't unlink files upon removing the file name
20:00<Tefad>unlike windows
20:00<Tefad>so if there was something that had the file open, it will stay allocated until it's released
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>no, the freed space is correct, the newly used space is overcalculated
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>(or the original free space was, and now it got recalculated upon "disk full" message)
20:01<Tefad>i say reboot and see if it's still this way ; )
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i did not move 7GB of data
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>that's a bad idea ;)
20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>and yes, i know about the open file thingy
20:05<ln->some time ago i was not able to fit 6GB of data to 7.2GB free space on ext3...
20:05<ln->then i ran e2fsck on it, and suddenly the free space dropped to about 5.8GB
20:06<Eddi|zuHause2>afaik this is a FAT drive...
20:09<ln->how perverted
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>i had some similar thoughts when i noticed the first time :p
20:11<Frostregen>Users browsing this forum: draketrumpet, Frostregen, Google [Bot] and 3 guests
20:11<Frostregen>Google has its own account? =)
20:12<Eddi|zuHause2>err... my first thought would be a user with a sick sense of humour :p
20:13<Gonozal_VIII>there seems to be a problem with the openttd.cfg
20:13<Gonozal_VIII>the game removes the first newline
20:13<huma>what revision?
20:13<Gonozal_VIII>but when i change something and save it without that newline i get lots of out of group messages
20:14<Eddi|zuHause2>night girls...
20:15<Gonozal_VIII>when closing the game i get those messages again and everything in the file gets set to default
20:17<Gonozal_VIII>with the newline there is a single out of group message, the newline gets removed but settings stay
20:19<Gonozal_VIII>the something i changed was newgrfs btw and yes, i did that the right way
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20:22<Gonozal_VIII>i think i remember that older versions of the game didn't remove the newline before [misc]
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21:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11443 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Action 0 <id> is an extended byte
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21:45<SmatZ>in 47 minutes
21:45<SmatZ>I will have uptime 1234:56
21:45<SmatZ>have to stay and make screenshot!
21:46<SmatZ>-> 2 51 days, 10:10:24 | Linux 2.6.22-gentoo-r5 Tue Sep 25 18:35:25 2007
21:46<SmatZ>such useless thing forces me not to sleep today :-/
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22:09<SmatZ>ok, I have set a timer
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 16 00:00:42 2007