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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-21

---Logopened Wed Nov 21 00:00:51 2007
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00:38<mikk36|work>morning, sleepers
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00:42<Eddi|zuHause2>sleep? where?
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02:11<Soup>anyone has the beta
02:12<Soup>i do
02:13<Soup>ill slap me
02:14<Soup>for a dumb question
02:14[~]Soup slaps Soup upside da head with a hairy goldfish
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02:16<Peter1986>hi
02:17<mikk36|work>Eddi|zuHause2, there
02:17<Soup>there
02:18<Peter1986>hi
02:19<mikk36|work>hi, Peter1986
02:19<Soup>dumb linux root
02:20<Soup>i just got linux last week
02:20<mikk36|work>lol
02:20<Soup>hope i can compile openttd
02:25<Peter1986>is anyone here?
02:26<Peter1986>what does it mean 'escessive lameness'?
02:26<Peter1986>i saw it somewhere...
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02:30<Peter1986>hi
02:30<Peter1986>so what does that 'excessive lameness' mean?
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02:40<Rubidium>Peter1986: that the person is too lame to get a dictionary to find the meaning of the words "excessive" and "lameness"
02:40<Peter1986>i thought it is some 'phraze' at OTTD...
02:41<Peter1986>like it means when they chat with signs etc.
02:41<Peter1986>xD
02:42<Rubidium>oh, it's something some users say? Then it's better to place a sign there and ask what it means! ;)
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02:51<Peter1986>no, i was thinking maybe it has a meaning ingame what us not its regular meaning...
02:52<Peter1986>maybe some OTTD slangs like rotten banana etc. xD
02:52<Rubidium>I've never seen it, but that might be due to the fact that I virtually never play MP.
02:53<Peter1986>:)
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02:53<Peter1986>but i guess devs don't have much time to play...
02:55<Rubidium>s/play/do anything OTTD related/
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03:01<dihedral>morning
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04:58<SmatZ>hello world
04:59<dihedral>yay - SmatZ wrote is first irc script :-D
04:59<dihedral>!ping
05:00<SmatZ>pong
05:00<SmatZ>:-D
05:00<dihedral>:-P
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06:02<Gekz>oooh~
06:02<Gekz>0.6.0-beta1!
06:03<Gekz>which version of svn is it
06:03<Gekz>lol
06:07<Brianetta>lol?
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06:26<blathijs>Gekz: /tags/0.6.0-beta1 I'd expect :-)
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06:28<dihedral>lol
06:28<dihedral>blathijs: i was thinking the same thing, but did not want to say it :-P
06:34|-|Chris82 [~Chris82@p579E1E87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:34<Chris82>hi guys :)
06:34<Chris82>I can't compile current trunk (clean) with MSVC anymore, it just hangs on determining version number
06:35<blathijs>ey Chris82
06:35<blathijs>Chris82: What version?
06:35<Chris82>I was using r11355 before and now updated to latest trunk (r11485)
06:35<blathijs>11355 worked?
06:36<Chris82>yes
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06:36<blathijs>Chris82: Could you perhaps try to find the breaking revision (by bisecting, for example?)
06:36<Chris82>I don't know where exactly the problem started, because I haven't done anything with OpenTTD for a while (thus the lack of ChrisIN updates)
06:36<Chris82>yeah I can partially revert using TortoiseSVN
06:36<blathijs>Chris82: Perhaps look through the log to see if anything changed in the svn revision detection
06:36<Chris82>ok I try to find where the problem started
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06:38<blathijs>Chris82: Thanks!
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06:42<dihedral>hey Chris82
06:42<dihedral>long time no see (online)
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06:45<Chris82>hi :) yeah busy with uni stuff
06:45<Chris82>I just wanted to do a ChrisIN sync otherwise I will miss too much stuff and not be able anymore to sync it
06:45<Chris82>I already missed a lot ;)
06:46<Chris82>r11450 works fine, so only 35 builds left to check
06:47<LeviathNL>first check number 16 :)
06:47<dihedral>you mean r16 :-D
06:47<dihedral>that would be funny
06:48<dihedral>retro ottd gaming :-D
06:48<Chris82>blathijs: The git detection from r11470 is causing it
06:49<Chris82>r11469 builds fine, newer builds hang on version detection in MSVC 2005 and 2008
06:51<Chris82>I wonder why no one noticed this yet... do so few people use MSVC ;) or are they just too lazy to look up problems :D
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06:51<dihedral>i use mac and linux
06:51<dihedral>:-)
06:51<dihedral>and no - i dont use xcode for that either
06:54<Rubidium>Chris82: probably something special to your setup
06:55<Chris82>well at least of MSVC 2008 I have a default install
06:55<Chris82>but if you tell me what "git detection" is I can look at the properties
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07:14<Rubidium>it's detecting whether you have some kind of versioning system (like svn, but then different)
07:15<Rubidium>it's probably hanging in the following line:
07:15<Rubidium>Do While oExec.Status = 0 And Err.Number = 0
07:15<Rubidium>but I've got no MSVC or even Windows to test it
07:16<BigBB>MSVC 2008 works fine for me, it must be a problem in his setup
07:16<Rubidium>and no idea what it does when it does not have git
07:16<Rubidium>hmm... I think I have a reason why it doesn't work
07:16<Rubidium>Chris82: are you maybe NOT using a SVN checkout?
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07:21<Chris82>I am using a SVN checkout created with TortoiseSVN
07:21<Chris82>and I have a default install of MSVC 2008 with no environment settings changed
07:21<Chris82>the only thing I changed was that line numbers are being displayed
07:23<Rubidium>in case of TortoiseSVN it should've detected SVN and bailed out
07:24<Rubidium>but, can you confirm it is the line I mentioned?
07:25<Rubidium>(just remove that loop)
07:25<Chris82>let met try
07:25<Chris82>me*
07:27<Chris82>nope still hangs after removing the loop
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07:28<Rubidium>could you add some alerts (or whatever they're called) in strategic places to see where it stops working?
07:29<Chris82>you mean breakpoints?
07:29<Chris82>the problem is that I don't get a build log when it hangs, I only get one when building fails
07:29<Rubidium>don't think those work, but you might try
07:30<Chris82>no you're right they won't help here
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07:33|-|Hendikins|Work-BNE changed nick to Hendikins
07:34<BigBB>look if you have an other program as standard program for *.vbs files. This can make trouble with VC and the revision stuff
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07:38<Chris82>Microsoft (R) Windows Based Script Host is the default program and always was
07:39<Chris82>I just tried it on XP to verify it's not Vista, but the same happens there (also default install of MSVC)
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07:41<Chris82>where is $(InputDir) for "$(InputDir)/determineversion.vbs" defined?
07:42<Chris82>or does it mean the root of the project?
07:48<Rubidium>Chris82: somewhere deep inside MSVC magic
07:48<Chris82>the tsvn_tmp file when checking for TortoiseSVN is not created
07:49<Chris82>but this line sTortoise = WshShell.RegRead("HKLM\SOFTWARE\TortoiseSVN\Directory")
07:49<Rubidium>but IIRC it means the location where the solution files are (or something like that)
07:49<Chris82>where it checks for the TortoiseSVN directory references an existing registry key and it has the correct directory in there
07:50<Chris82>so something with TortoiseSVN detection is not working and thus it thinks there is no SVN
07:52<Rubidium>but that doesn't make it 'hang'
07:53<Rubidium>as that is not changed and it did not 'hang' before
07:53<Rubidium>so that is not an issue at the moment
07:53|-|oh_ changed nick to you2willhavetocopyphastediz8
07:54<Chris82>well I will just try reverting the changes part by part and see where it starts hanging
07:54<Rubidium>oh_ really? it's simply y<TAB>
07:54<Chris82>huh?
07:54<Rubidium>Chris82: someone changed his name into 'you2willhavetocopyphastediz8'
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07:56<oh_>Rubidium: lies
07:57|-|dev|ant [~bleh@ppp59-167-131-47.lns3.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:57<oh_>Rubidium: tab completion is illegal i nine of ten countries
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07:57<oh_>in
07:57<dihedral>?
07:57|-|exe_ [~ghf@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd
07:57<Rubidium>oh_: lieing is illegal in ten of ten countries!
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07:58<dihedral>nice one Rubidium
07:58|-|exe_ changed nick to exe
07:58<oh_>Rubidium: question is; how will you prove I lied?
07:58<dihedral>he does not have to
07:59<Rubidium>Africa > 30 countries, the world has < 300 countries, African countries have no laws so everything is legal -> you lied
07:59<dihedral>a statement from a trusted person is worth more on irc than a statement from some 'new guy' :-P
07:59<oh_>we all know reality is a subjective thing, in turn making truth the same
08:00<oh_>(can you tell it's been a loong time since I last dabbled in philosophy?)
08:00|-|mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ
08:00<dihedral>LOL
08:00<@Rubidium>and one of a operator even more ;)
08:00<dihedral>i spy with my little eye
08:01|-|mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by Rubidium
08:01|-|mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by Rubidium
08:01<+Rubidium>see, I've been given a +
08:01<dihedral>LOL
08:01<hylje>you are clearly superior
08:01<Wezz6400>all I see is a yellow icon :P
08:01<Chris82>oh_: actually there is only one truth and people misuse this word to explain their actions
08:01<+Rubidium>Wezz6400: use a proper IRC client
08:02<dihedral>lol
08:02<+Rubidium>Chris82: paradox
08:02<Wezz6400>Rubidium I do actually
08:02<oh_>dealing in absolutes is bad
08:02<Wezz6400>I just can't be bothered to change the icons back
08:02<dihedral>:-P
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08:02<+Rubidium>Wezz6400: can I keep it running and connect to it via ssh?
08:02<oh_>I get some silhouette with a blue background :I
08:02<Wezz6400>no
08:03<Wezz6400>that I have my bouncer for :P
08:03<+Rubidium>then it's not a proper IRC client ;)
08:03<+Rubidium>bouncers are pretty useless
08:03<+Rubidium>usually at least
08:03<Wezz6400>well I'm running it on my router box at home
08:03<Chris82>Well what I wanted to say was there is nothing like true or wrong, there is only right or false and that is truly subjective (no need to understand what I just said lol)
08:04<Chris82>-was
08:04<+Rubidium>as when people are not connected to the bouncer and you highlight them once and start talking, the other person has no idea what I said after the first highlighted sentence.
08:04<Wezz6400>I find it more convenient to keep online whenever I reboot my pc
08:04<+Rubidium>and there is no automatic way to tell me that it wasn't received
08:04<+Rubidium>Wezz6400: for that you don't need a bouncer
08:04<oh_>if (statement == right) { kthx; } ?
08:05<Wezz6400>Rubidium I know, irrsi on it will do the same thing, however I don't like irssi
08:05<+Rubidium>why not?
08:05<+Rubidium>take bitchy ;)
08:05<+Rubidium>s/y/x/
08:05<+Rubidium>or... even better, write your own
08:05<Wezz6400>I find the controls and interface a bit too basic
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08:07<Wezz6400>I mean sure it's a nice programme and all, however I just prefer using something with a graphical interface such as xchat
08:07<dihedral>you just like using your mouse
08:09<+Rubidium>ofcourse Wezz6400 also doesn't use those'archic' controls in Windows to swap applications, he better uses the graphical interface for that
08:09<+Rubidium>I bet he even uses the on-screen keyboard as that is so much nicer than a dull keyboard ;)
08:09<Wezz6400>yeah yeah yeah
08:10<dihedral>:-P
08:10<dihedral>Rubidium: with a touch screen :-D
08:10<Wezz6400>I like using the commmand line, however for a client machine which my home pc is I just prefer a graphical interface instead of a command line interface, I find it looks a bit better and is a bit easier to use; nothing wrong with irssi it's just my personal preference
08:11<hylje>irssi ftw!
08:11<dihedral>if it's linux press print screen (and hold) and type s u b :-D
08:11<dihedral>and dont trust me on that one
08:11[~]dihedral is at least kind enough to mention it
08:12<Wezz6400>I never trust anything giving me some key combination over the internet
08:12<Wezz6400>anyone*
08:12<dihedral>:-P
08:12<Wezz6400>Partly because I like to abuse other people's trust like that too :+
08:12<dihedral>ok - echo "foo" /dev/kmem :-D
08:13<dihedral>sorry
08:13<dihedral>echo "foo" > /dev/kmem
08:13<dihedral>:-P
08:13<Wezz6400>kmem wouldn't have to do with the kernel or something now would it ;)
08:14[~]dihedral humms
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08:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11486 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1457]: industry count was wrong in smallmap
08:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11487 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Fix (r11435): move the list of vehicles a bit higher in the player GUI
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08:53<dihedral>nice one
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09:53<Team-iN>hey there
09:54<Team-iN>Anyone here?
09:54<Team-iN>I tried to install openttd from the svn
09:54<Team-iN>on my debian
09:54<Team-iN>Now it says I'm missing chars.grf and openttdw.grf
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09:55<Team-iN>hey
09:56<fjb>Moin
09:56<Team-iN>Now it says I'm missing chars.grf and openttdw.grf
09:56<Team-iN>I installed openttd on my linux box from svn and im missing those :S
09:56<Team-iN>But i dont have those files
09:57<dihedral>you are repeating yourself :-P
09:57<Team-iN>Lol i know
09:57<Team-iN>but maybe he knows something :P
09:57|-|Team-iN changed nick to Jeffroiscool
09:58<frosch123>The files are in /trunk/bin/data.
09:58<Jeffroiscool>:S
09:58<+Rubidium>Jeffroiscool: how did you 'install' it?
09:59<Jeffroiscool>I did a checkout
09:59<Jeffroiscool>then made a data folder in the reale
09:59<Jeffroiscool>release
09:59<Jeffroiscool>then put in the required files
09:59<Jeffroiscool>also ./configure and make
09:59<+Rubidium>Jeffroiscool: if you had placed them in bin/data and had run bin/openttd you would've had no problem.
10:00<Jeffroiscool>hmm
10:00<Jeffroiscool>illl copy data from bin
10:00<Jeffroiscool>also
10:00<Jeffroiscool>I want to run it as a server
10:00<Jeffroiscool>is that possible?
10:00<+Rubidium>objs/* is not meant to be used as place from where you start the binary.
10:00<+Rubidium>yes that is possible
10:00<Jeffroiscool>I copied the /objs
10:01<Jeffroiscool>:O
10:01<Jeffroiscool>its in bin
10:01<Jeffroiscool>xD
10:01<dihedral>you copied /objs ?
10:01<Jeffroiscool>yeah i did
10:01<Jeffroiscool>because it said it was there
10:01<+Rubidium>what said that?
10:01<Jeffroiscool>One of the programs
10:01<Jeffroiscool>forgot which one
10:02<Jeffroiscool>X connection to localhost:12.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
10:02<Jeffroiscool>:/
10:02<Jeffroiscool>Is there a server command line?
10:02<dihedral>wiki.openttd.org
10:02<dihedral>:-)
10:02<+Rubidium>Jeffroiscool: what have you tried yourself to answer that question?
10:03<Jeffroiscool>What question
10:03<Jeffroiscool>so many questions here now :P
10:03<dihedral>any of them
10:03<+Rubidium>i.e. have you tried '--help'?
10:03<dihedral>i feel like i could predict that answer
10:03<+Rubidium>something that any unix binary should support
10:04<Jeffroiscool>I'll try
10:04<Jeffroiscool>Ah i see
10:04<Jeffroiscool>whats the standard port?
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10:05<Jeffroiscool>I want to have this server running dedicated
10:05<Jeffroiscool>I see how
10:05<Jeffroiscool>But i want it to be in the list and use the proper port
10:05<dihedral>Jeffroiscool: follow this link: http://wiki.openttd.org
10:05<Jeffroiscool>I did
10:06<Jeffroiscool>doesnt have much info on server
10:06<dihedral>i can answer all questions with that link
10:06<Jeffroiscool>at least not on the main page
10:06<dihedral>there is 1. a search 2. a manual
10:06<dihedral>do some homework
10:06<Jeffroiscool>The manual is for people who dont know how to play -,-
10:07<Gonozal_VIII>cfg
10:07<Gonozal_VIII>server_port server_advertise in [network]
10:08<Jeffroiscool>k
10:08<Jeffroiscool>umm
10:08<Jeffroiscool>sorry wheres the cfg xD
10:08<Gonozal_VIII>game dir^^
10:08<Jeffroiscool>I dont see it
10:08<dihedral>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Dedicated_server
10:08<Jeffroiscool>I just see the openttd binari
10:09<Jeffroiscool>Yeah just found it dihedral
10:09<+Rubidium>~/.openttd/
10:09<Jeffroiscool>k
10:09<Jeffroiscool>I need to run it once to get it right?
10:09<dihedral>you tried before asking? :-P
10:09<Jeffroiscool>Yes
10:09<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
10:10<Jeffroiscool>-,-
10:10<+Rubidium>Jeffroiscool: no, you don't need to run it to get the cfg
10:10<Jeffroiscool>I'm doing this with putty :P
10:10<dihedral>ls ~/.openttd
10:10<Jeffroiscool>Nope
10:10<Jeffroiscool>only save and scenario
10:10<+Rubidium>touch ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg works too
10:10<dihedral>then check the bin dir
10:10<dihedral>LOL
10:10<Jeffroiscool>only the bin and dir is there
10:11<Jeffroiscool>cannot touch `/home/jeffro/openttd/openttd.cfg': Toegang geweigerd
10:11<Jeffroiscool>lol
10:11<Jeffroiscool>the config is not there
10:12<dihedral>and what do you do if you dont have permission?
10:12<Jeffroiscool>I havre
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>did you compile the game?^^
10:12<Jeffroiscool>se i have the config now
10:12<Jeffroiscool>As I said
10:12<dihedral>and i see no . infront of openttd
10:12<Jeffroiscool>I need to run the binary at least once
10:12<dihedral>/home/jeffro/.openttd/openttd.cfg
10:12<Jeffroiscool>Or else it wont generate the cfg
10:12<Jeffroiscool>Yes I know dihedral
10:13<dihedral>and what does touch do?
10:13<Jeffroiscool>But as I said it didn't generate until I made a dedicated server once
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10:13<dihedral>well then you have it now
10:13<dihedral>:-P
10:14<Jeffroiscool>Hmm
10:14<Jeffroiscool>Where is it on windows
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10:14<Jeffroiscool>I have some good settings on my windows
10:14<Jeffroiscool>:P
10:14<dihedral>'see through' 'open' and 'close':-P
10:14<dihedral>windows are useless without :-P
10:15<Jeffroiscool>lol
10:15<Jeffroiscool>I know windows suck xD
10:15<Jeffroiscool>But I have had a server on there
10:15<Jeffroiscool>via the options
10:16<Jeffroiscool>btw
10:16<Jeffroiscool>what about compatible
10:16<Jeffroiscool>I use svn
10:16<dihedral>and?
10:16<Jeffroiscool>but can everyone connect to my server?
10:17<Jeffroiscool>Do they need the svn too?
10:17<dihedral>i give up
10:17<dihedral>Rubidium: i dont understand you
10:17<Jeffroiscool>Jesus your acting like I'm a n00b -,-
10:17<Gonozal_VIII>the game does all the connection stuff :-)
10:17<Jeffroiscool>I had a server before
10:17<Jeffroiscool>windows
10:18<Jeffroiscool>I had 0.5.2
10:18<Jeffroiscool>ppl with 0.5.3 couldnt connect
10:18<Jeffroiscool>as they need same version
10:18<dihedral>Jeffroiscool: you may call me dihedral :-)
10:18<Jeffroiscool>thats why I am asking if it will cause trouble
10:18<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
10:18<Jeffroiscool>as the svn is not 0.5.3 -,-
10:18<dihedral>Jeffroiscool: you _always_ need the same version number
10:18<dihedral>have you tried funning ./configure --help
10:19<Jeffroiscool>So the others will need to use svn on their windows box to play ?
10:19<Gonozal_VIII>... same game version
10:19<Jeffroiscool>-,-
10:20<Jeffroiscool>I just want to know what the others need now
10:20<dihedral>and you will feel very lonely if you have the latest revision and ./configure --recision=0.5.3
10:20<Gonozal_VIII>you're thinking much too complicated
10:20<Jeffroiscool>I downloaded svn on my server, standard options
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10:20<Jeffroiscool>k
10:21<dihedral>version checking is done by that string
10:21<Jeffroiscool>WARNING: we do not advise you to use this setting
10:21<Jeffroiscool>WARNING: in most cases it is not safe for network use
10:21<Jeffroiscool>WARNING: USE WITH CAUTION!
10:21<Jeffroiscool>lol
10:21<dihedral>yes - we all know those lines
10:21<dihedral>what's wrong with them
10:21<Jeffroiscool>ok
10:21<Jeffroiscool>I need to remake it now right
10:21<Jeffroiscool>xD
10:21<Jeffroiscool>long process
10:21<dihedral>no it's not
10:22<dihedral>building xorg is a longish process :-D
10:22<Jeffroiscool>:D
10:22<Jeffroiscool>Ok
10:22<Jeffroiscool>but still where the hell is the config.cfg on my windows -,-
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>openttd.cfg
10:22<Jeffroiscool>yeah that :P
10:23<dihedral>hit win+f
10:23<dihedral>:-D
10:23<Jeffroiscool>thats SLOW
10:23<dihedral>look in MyDocuments/OpenTTD
10:23<Gonozal_VIII>look in "my documents" if there is an openttd folder
10:23<Jeffroiscool>I have like 4 terabyto of files :P
10:24<Jeffroiscool>nope no openttd folder
10:24<dihedral>then check the folder where the binary is in
10:24<dihedral>if you ran servers before you should at least know where you keep your config
10:25|-|fjb changed nick to fjbAWAY
10:25<Jeffroiscool>No i did ingame :P
10:25<Jeffroiscool>But I found it
10:25<Jeffroiscool>Woah
10:25[~]dihedral claps his hands
10:25<Jeffroiscool>can i put more max_companies
10:26<Jeffroiscool>more then 8
10:26<dihedral>did you search the wiki for that?
10:26<dihedral>or perhaps the tt-forums?
10:27<Jeffroiscool>No i didnt searchb
10:28<Jeffroiscool>p to 10 players can participate in a multiplayer game. You can only open up 8 companies though
10:28<Jeffroiscool>Is it possible to make that more in the config
10:28<dihedral>READ
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10:33<Jeffroiscool>Can someone check if my server is up?
10:33<Jeffroiscool>I can't I'm at school :)
10:33<Jeffroiscool>Jeffro's server
10:33<dihedral>can you visit servers.openttd.org?
10:34<Jeffroiscool>k ill try
10:34<Jeffroiscool>don't see it
10:34<Jeffroiscool>but it is running
10:34<dihedral>well then
10:34<dihedral>it's just not 'advertised'
10:35<Jeffroiscool>[network]
10:35<Jeffroiscool>max_join_time = 500
10:35<Jeffroiscool>pause_on_join = true
10:35<Jeffroiscool>server_bind_ip = 0.0.0.0
10:35<Jeffroiscool>server_port = 3979
10:35<Jeffroiscool>server_advertise = true
10:35<Jeffroiscool>also forwarded port in router
10:35<Jeffroiscool>should work
10:35<gono_ping_timeout>i guess your school blocks ports
10:35<+Rubidium>Jeffroiscool: what port did you forward?
10:36<Jeffroiscool>3979
10:37<dihedral>tcp or udp?
10:37[~]dihedral likes the 'or'
10:37<Jeffroiscool>botj
10:37<Jeffroiscool>:)
10:37<Jeffroiscool>its both standard
10:37<Jeffroiscool>I use dd-wrt
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10:38<Jeffroiscool>wtf
10:38<Jeffroiscool>its offline now
10:38|-|michi_cc [f4460812e7@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Quit: michi_cc]
10:38<Jeffroiscool>its quering now
10:38<Jeffroiscool>[net] [udp] advertising to master server
10:38<Jeffroiscool>YAY
10:39<Jeffroiscool>its in the list
10:39<Jeffroiscool>Thank you for your help guys
10:39[~]dihedral claps his hands
10:39<Jeffroiscool>:)\
10:39<Jeffroiscool>I made it a sh now
10:39<dihedral>with screen?
10:39<Jeffroiscool>I need to have a website where i can execute sh's :P
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10:41<Jeffroiscool>omg
10:41<Jeffroiscool>I need one option gujys
10:41<Jeffroiscool>just one :(
10:41<Jeffroiscool>the map is artic now
10:41<Jeffroiscool>Can I change it to the default?
10:41<dihedral>did you read the wiki
10:41<Jeffroiscool>YES I RAD IT DAMNIT XD
10:41<dihedral>stop shouting at me
10:42<Jeffroiscool>-,-"
10:42<dihedral>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Openttd.cfg
10:42|-|gono_ping_timeout changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
10:42<+Rubidium> /ignore Jeffroiscool
10:42<Jeffroiscool>:(
10:42<Jeffroiscool>Why ignore me
10:44<dihedral>because you are acting like a complete noob who is seemingly unable to read and/or search a wiki page that sofar has been referenced to him 3 times
10:45<Jeffroiscool>No I'm stating I don't want to read the wiki for every little option I need you guys allready know
10:45<dihedral>what on earth do you think the wiki is there for??
10:46<Jeffroiscool>For people who are too dumb to come on IRC
10:46<Jeffroiscool>:)
10:46<dihedral>Rubidium: you feel like op'ing yourself?
10:46<dihedral>:-P
10:47<+Rubidium>dihedral: just ignore him. It's much quieter now ;)
10:47<dihedral>LOL
10:47<Jeffroiscool>Ok I read the wiki
10:48<Jeffroiscool>it stated change landscape
10:48<Jeffroiscool>I changed landscare
10:48<Jeffroiscool>Its still artic
10:48<Jeffroiscool>even after rebooting server
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10:49<Gonozal_VIII>[gameopt] landscape = temperate
10:50<@Belugas>Jeffroiscool, the idea of pointing you the wiki is to make it so you'll be able to find all the stuff that you need. Some of us are actually working real jobs. And may not be able to answer you. So, if you know where to look for answers, you will KNOW, ASSIMILATE the knowledge faster then just applying the response from somebody else
10:51<Jeffroiscool>Yes I understand
10:51<@Belugas>like... give a fish to someone, he'll eat for a day. Show him fishing, he'll eat for the rest of his life :)
10:51<Jeffroiscool>But not everything is founded easy on the wiki
10:51<Rotonen>and most likely people will still just paste your questions relevant terms into the wiki search anyway
10:51<Jeffroiscool>The wiki is now much more pointed to players
10:51<Jeffroiscool>And not to server hosters
10:52<Jeffroiscool>So you will have to search with more trouble.
10:52<Jeffroiscool>If I know people are in this channel I can just ask how to do that becuase they learnt of experiance
10:52<Jeffroiscool>and I know i just made 2/3 typos xD
10:52<Gonozal_VIII>you can even launch the game, make the settings there and they are in the config
10:52<Jeffroiscool>I know
10:52<Jeffroiscool>One problem
10:53<dihedral>one answer
10:53<dihedral>wiki.openttd.org :-)
10:56<Jeffroiscool>oops
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10:56<Jeffroiscool>I just got logged out by some classroom faggots
10:56<Jeffroiscool>remote log off -,-
10:56<Jeffroiscool>But I ment one problem
10:57|-|fjbAWAY changed nick to fjb
10:58<dihedral>moin
10:58<dihedral>ha
10:58<dihedral>beat you to it fjb
10:58<fjb>I wasn't at the computer the last half hour.
11:00<dihedral>aw - you've gone and popped my bobble
11:00<fjb>What bobble?
11:00<dihedral>that i had beat you to saying 'moin'
11:00<dihedral>:-P
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11:02<fjb>Hm, I said moin at 15:56
11:02<fjb>:-)
11:02<dihedral>:-(
11:02<dihedral>hello Belugas by the way :-)
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11:24<De_Ghosty>hi guys
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11:26<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm i can't edit the lng file without the game ignoring it then?
11:30<BigBB>right
11:30<BigBB>edit the *.txt file and compile
11:30<Gonozal_VIII>ah ok... thx
11:32<BigBB>but you need the new *.lng file and the new binary (e.g. for win the openttd.exe) to work
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11:32<Gonozal_VIII>it writes the checksum into the exe? why that?
11:34<Gonozal_VIII>wouldn't make sense to write it into the file itself... but why is there even a checksum?... but ok... doesn't matter... thanks :-)
11:37<dihedral>pink: 301, grey: 263, mauve:387
11:37<dihedral>where can i get the rest of these values from
11:38<dihedral>i found them by trial and error :-P
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11:41<Gonozal_VIII>is that some kind of weird rpg clone thing?
11:42<Gonozal_VIII>:S
11:42<BigBB>dihedral, for what, text colour?
11:42<dihedral>game chat
11:43<dihedral>http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/wwottdgd/r11344_server_tlaks_mauve.v1.patch
11:43<dihedral>this is useful when the server is wrapped by autopilot and is sitting in an irc channel
11:43<dihedral>then one can differentiate between spectator chat and chat from irc
11:44<Gonozal_VIII>aaah rgb not rpg^^
11:44<Gonozal_VIII><-- stupid
11:44[~]dihedral agrees
11:44<dihedral>:-D
11:44<Gonozal_VIII>i realised something was wrong after i wrote it but it took me a while to figure out what^^
11:46<dihedral>BigBB: you have a hint for me where i could find more values?
11:46<dihedral>you will not want to know how i got hold of those :-P
11:46<BigBB>I'm not sure, I have a look to see if I'm right
11:47<dihedral>idealy i would like that color to be defineable in the patch settings
11:48<dihedral>so one can change it 'on the fly' and will not have to compile it all again just for a different color :-P
11:48<dihedral>as that is just nasty
11:49<BigBB>dihedral, try the enum TextColour or the enum above it in gfx.h. I have atm. no time to look if it work...
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11:51<dihedral>thank you i'll have a look there
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11:58<dihedral>BigBB: that looks good, i'll have a try later on this evening
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12:07<hylje>http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1195618282428.jpg loco loco loco loco loco
12:08<Eddi|zuHause2>loco is spanish for weird
12:08<Gonozal_VIII>7 engines? nice
12:10<Gonozal_VIII>uni... back in 3
12:10<Eddi|zuHause2>3 minutes?
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12:27<Jeffroiscool>Does TTD has any log file for errors?
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, if you redirect console output into a file
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12:44<Wolf01>hello
12:50<exe>hello
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13:53<dihedral>@seen Bjarni
13:53<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 1 minute, and 3 seconds ago: <Bjarni> ok
13:53<hylje>ok
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14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11488 /trunk/ (13 files in 4 dirs):
14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Spilt the random functions out to seperate file
14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Make the mersenne twister more readable
14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify the seeding process of random
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14:15<hylje>so you spilled the random functions off :P
14:15<dihedral>'you' is not on irc as far as i can tell
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14:16<hylje>liek i arse myself to check that kind of stuff
14:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11489 /trunk/src/core/ (random_func.cpp random_func.hpp): -Fix r11488: Somehow the code was added multiple times
14:22<dihedral>no - you just like talking - no matter if the addressed person is around or not :-D
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14:51<ln->http://ircpics.com/p/20071006/975c8cf6277a6207467cbb78893f677d.jpg
14:54<dihedral>LOL ln
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15:16<MaSch>Hi
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15:18<MaSch>i tryed to compile openttd 0.6 (nightly) with ssh (my friend is a new user and don't know how to to that, so i try ^^).. now, by ./configure there is a warning: WARNING: no video driver found, building dedicated only .. anyone know how to solve this?
15:18<MaSch>apt said that libsdl is already the newest version but configure says "checking SDL... not found"
15:19<Prof_Frink>MaSch: Do you have libsdl-dev
15:19<MaSch>okay.. dev . ^^ i dont think so.. lets wait
15:19<MaSch>installing.. thanks a lot ^^
15:20<MaSch>i dont like ubuntu >.<
15:20<Rotonen>well usually you don't want the compiletime stuff from the packages..
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15:21<MaSch>on gentoo, everything is a little bit different ^^
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15:23<Gonozal_VIII>!logs
15:23<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
15:24<Sacro>is there not a deb already?
15:24<Sacro>usually blathijs makes thenm
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15:27<Gonozal_VIII>19:10:46 < Eddi|zuHause2> 3 minutes? <-- hours
15:27<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: well, you should clarify that... because if unspecified it always means minutes
15:28<Gonozal_VIII>hmm wouldn't make sense to go to university for 3 minutes... but ok^^
15:29<fjb>Some people call that studying. :-)
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15:31<UnderBuilder>will be good a simcity-style game based on the GUI of OTTD
15:32<Gonozal_VIII>will be or would be?
15:32<UnderBuilder>would
15:33<hylje>a simcity-like game that is compatible with ottd
15:33<hylje>;)
15:33<KaareMai>I've thought alot about making a clone of The Settlers 1 based on openttd
15:33<@Belugas>wold be good a brand new game style based on a brand new gui
15:33<KaareMai>Would be a nice starting point to grasp all the basics of such an implementation
15:33<hylje>KaareMai: you might want to poke around with pygame
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15:35<KaareMai>hylje, sounds interesting :)
15:35<UnderBuilder>or why not create a series of free simulation games like sim*, theme* or tycoon* ones
15:35<KaareMai>I've figured out 80% of the graphic file format, then theres the sound. But it all uses the same structure in the files so shouldn't be that hard.
15:35<hylje>KaareMai: how experienced are you in programming?
15:37<KaareMai>Well, i make software for micro controllers at work, some VB6 (lol), C(++) and some C# apps, but thats a far cry from understanding how to create a game :)
15:37<KaareMai>but my primary software knowledge is assembly for very tiny microcontrollers
15:39<hylje>sounds pretty good for a base
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15:40<UnderBuilder>who agrees me that there would be a serie of simulation games, like Maxis did with sim, bullfrog with theme and microprose with tycoon?
15:40<KaareMai>Yeah, well the problem for me is not so much to understand C programming, but more the larger concepts of creating such a game as openttd. Where to begin? How to manage pathfinding and all that stuff
15:40<hylje>UnderBuilder: small indie (open source) gaems?
15:41<hylje>KaareMai: either start poking around about openttd and other projects
15:41<hylje>KaareMai: or roll your own, i still recommend python with pygame
15:41<UnderBuilder>for example... openttd + opencity should start the series
15:41<hylje>ottdlib
15:43<UnderBuilder>why not a more creative name like... * master (transport master, city master, park master, etc.)
15:43<hylje>one should get onto the series first
15:43<hylje>e.g. fork ottd and start hacking it
15:43<UnderBuilder>you can choose the name of the series
15:44<@Belugas>there are already a few games about transport been built, or started to be built. why start another one?
15:45<KaareMai>back
15:46<UnderBuilder>better explained with an example, one step to introduce this is creating a GUI library for it
15:46<hylje>ottdlib
15:47<+glx>UnderBuilder: it's already a pain to modify a window in ottd, and you want to use this in other games?
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15:48<SmatZ>theme hospital was nice, too
15:48<valhallasw>simtower \o/
15:48<hylje>glx: well i dont think a better/improved gui for ottd would hurt either
15:48<Sacro>lets combine the lot
15:48<Sacro>hylje: winforms!
15:49<hylje>it's no easy task either way
15:49<hylje>Sacro: quiet you
15:49<Sacro>using Windows.Forms;
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15:49<KaareMai>Nah, one of the sharms with openttd is the distinct TTD interface :) It must not go too far away from the original game in my opinion
15:50<hylje>yeah well.. the backend being a pain or not won't change that
15:51<UnderBuilder>I don't mean using OTTD's GUI, I mean using for example opencity's one
15:51<UnderBuilder>the 0.0.5 version one is great
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16:33<Wolf01>no, not again... forgot to click on random trees widget while dynamite was selected :(
16:33<Wolf01>a piece of railway disappeared magically
16:34<@Bjarni>not magically...
16:34<@Bjarni>it blew up
16:34[~]Bjarni arrests Wolf01 for railroad sabotage
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16:34<KaareMai>lol wolf01 i know the feeling
16:35<KaareMai>i did that today on a large trainstation, then the LA wouldn't allow me to build it again ):(
16:35<Wolf01>but i have a patch! http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/terraform_gui_trees_fix.diff
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16:37<dihedral>Bjarni:
16:37<dihedral>i cannot install os x 10.3.7 on the external drive... will not let me what ever i do
16:38<Rexxars>install freebsd instead "ho ho ho"
16:39[~]dihedral slaps Rexxars
16:39<Gonozal_VIII>if it was about windows i would say boot with a startdisk that supports the external drive
16:39<dihedral>and where exactly would that help trying to debug a compile issue in 10.3?
16:39<Rexxars>well osx is built on bsd so ;)
16:39<KaareMai>Nej, men kunne jo godt ha været
16:40<dihedral>yes great
16:40<@Bjarni><Rexxars> install freebsd instead "ho ho ho" <--- this is for testing OTTD on 10.3.x because somebody else uses it. It's not like dihedral intent to use it as main OS ;)
16:40<Rexxars>oh ok ;)
16:40[~]Bjarni slaps KaareMai
16:40<dihedral>i said that
16:40<dihedral>!
16:40<dihedral>kinda
16:40<KaareMai>sorry, should have been on msn
16:40<@Bjarni>KaareMai: some people in here wants the written language in here to be English
16:40<Rexxars>yeah but bjarni explained it better :p
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16:41<Rexxars>its funny how easy danish is to read and how impossible it is to understand when you are talking the language
16:41<@Bjarni>dihedral: well... maybe the IDE<->USB bridge isn't bootable... you could test if it accepts a newer OS (not to install it, but to test if it accepts the drive)
16:42<dihedral>well - i cannot 'boot' from it either way
16:42<@Bjarni><Rexxars> its funny how easy danish is to read and how impossible it is to understand when you are talking the language <-- that really depends on who is talking
16:42<dihedral>as i cannot even select it as 'boot device' for the next restart
16:43<dihedral>dihedral> and where exactly would that help trying to debug a compile issue in 10.3? <--- what is there to be said better?
16:43<@Bjarni>you can't select it as a boot device unless it contains a bootable system
16:43[~]dihedral digs up 10.4 install dvd
16:43<Gonozal_VIII>in my bios i can
16:43<dihedral>there is no bios
16:43<dihedral>there is open firmware :-D
16:44<@Bjarni>it might not even be a bios/firmware issue
16:44<dihedral>i dont think it is
16:44<@Bjarni>I can boot from one USB disk, but not another one even if I install the very same system on both
16:44<Gonozal_VIII>but my old system didn't support usb boot
16:45<@Bjarni>this is due to how the IDE<->USB bridge is made
16:45[~]dihedral restarts his powerbook
16:45<@Bjarni>funny enough it's the cheap one that's bootable
16:45<KaareMai>Is it a known bug that trains sometimes doesnt follow the signal rules of presignals when arraving at a station that they don't have in their orders list?
16:45<dihedral>use 2 way signals
16:46<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know how that mac stuff works but can't you start the installation while running another os?
16:47<KaareMai>Well i mean if you build a two-track terminus and place two way pre-signal at the entrance and one incomming presignal at the arrival track, and one normal for the exit track, then sometimes the train doesnt stop at the first presignal even if its read, instead it drives in and blocks the exit for the other train
16:47<KaareMai>this happens if it arrives at a station when its lost for example
16:47<KaareMai>then it doesnt follow "the rules"
16:47<Gonozal_VIII>they are not supposed to pass red signals ever...
16:47<KaareMai>but they do
16:47<dihedral>KaareMai: screenshot :-)
16:47<dihedral>save
16:48<dihedral>version
16:48<dihedral>grf's?
16:48<dihedral>patches?
16:48<dihedral>Bjarni: no luck
16:48<Gonozal_VIII>maybe the signal was green for a split second and you didn't notice?
16:48<dihedral>'Mac OS X cannot start up from this valume'
16:49<KaareMai>0.5.x nightlies spanning over several different nightlies, no grf, no patches
16:49<@Bjarni>dihedral: then the hardware isn't bootable
16:49<KaareMai>but Gonozal_VIII, how can it turn green if both platforms are occupied
16:50<@Bjarni>depending on the computer itself USB might not be bootable at all. For some reason Apple added USB booting really late
16:50<KaareMai>if both platforms are occupied, it will ignore the pre-signal and drive in and block the train
16:50<KaareMai>when i make the train leave and another arrives that is supposed to arrive, then it follows the rules
16:50<Gonozal_VIII>don't know how exactly your layout is... but if it is as you described it shouldn't happen
16:50<@Bjarni>firewire booting works on all macs with firewire though
16:50<dihedral>it's a 12" G4
16:50<KaareMai>its just a standard two terminal terminus
16:50<KaareMai>let me find a screenie :)
16:51<dihedral>3 years old :-(
16:51[~]dihedral pats this power book
16:51<@Bjarni>I can beat that
16:51<KaareMai>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:SignalTutorial19.png
16:51<KaareMai>Just like that one
16:51<@Bjarni>my powerbook is 11 years old
16:51<KaareMai>It works perfectly
16:52<@Bjarni>that one can't boot from USB either :P
16:52<KaareMai>but sometimes it doesnt. It seems that the problem happens if the train is lost or arrives at a station that it doesnt have in its order list
16:52<dihedral>KaareMai: i see no trains
16:52<dihedral>:-)
16:52<KaareMai>No its just from the wiki page :)
16:52<dihedral>well wonderful
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have an exit signal where the normal should be, do you?
16:52<KaareMai>No
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>ok...
16:53<dihedral>just give us a screenshot from something else will help us know whats going on in your game!!
16:53<KaareMai>They are completely identical to the one on the screenshot
16:53<KaareMai>okay lol
16:53<@Bjarni> <KaareMai> They are completely identical to the one on the screenshot <-- not 100% because then it would work
16:53<dihedral>:-P
16:53<KaareMai>bjarni, thats like saying theres no bugs in openttd :P
16:54<KaareMai>while flyspray says something else :D
16:54<dihedral>KaareMai: it's not
16:54<SmatZ>KaareMai: are both platforms full?
16:54<dihedral>apparently they are
16:54<KaareMai>yes
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>that's a standard station... lots of people use that... there is no bug in that by itself
16:54<KaareMai>both platforms full
16:54<KaareMai>all trains that arrives follows the rules and do not block
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16:54<@Bjarni> <KaareMai> bjarni, thats like saying theres no bugs in openttd :P <-- no. Even if there are bugs it should behave the very same way with the very same layout even if it's buggy
16:55<KaareMai>but when a train that is lost arrives then sometimes it drives further in even though the light is red
16:55<KaareMai>it happens very rarely
16:55<dihedral>my word
16:55<SmatZ>KaareMai: do you have a screenshot, or better a save?
16:55<dihedral>give a screenshot and a save and the version number
16:56<SmatZ>KaareMai: similiar situation may happen, if platforms are not all occupied
16:56<SmatZ>but if they are...
16:56<dihedral>he probably has combo at station and exit on track out and pre on track in
16:57<Eddi|zuHause2>if a train is lost, it is a bug in your layout...
16:57<Gonozal_VIII>exit at the way out would be enough to cause that
16:58<Gonozal_VIII>but he said he hasn't
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16:58<Eddi|zuHause2>we are still waiting at the screenshot...
16:58<dihedral>Gonozal_VIII: sinse when has a claim that a 'user' has not done something been enough without proof?
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>KaareMai? do you know how to make a screenshot?
16:59<dihedral>yes - bill gates? you have a bug in your software, my thunderbird cannot connect to the mail server... oh - i need to configure my adsl router?
17:00<KaareMai>http://www.gtaonline.dk/images/openttd.png
17:00<dihedral>i spy with my little eye - one free track
17:00<@Bjarni>fucking Swede
17:00<KaareMai>this game uses some grfs (ttrs3, some stations)
17:00<@Bjarni>you drive on the left side o_O
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>a bit hidden.. but looks like a normal signal
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>so signals should be fine
17:00<KaareMai>yeah i do bjarni :D
17:01<KaareMai>thats how i started and now its just a habit
17:01<Eddi|zuHause2>err... in our area that is called more something like "holy swede" :p
17:01<KaareMai>i cant capture the bug right now as it happens very rarely, it may take hours before i see it again
17:01<dihedral>[23:00] <Bjarni> fucking Swede <--- LOL
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>but you should have made a screenshot of the actual bug, not a standard situation...
17:01<@Bjarni>I don't have a habit when it comes to driving side... I switch depending on the game
17:02<Gonozal_VIII>i prefer right
17:02<KaareMai>I will Gonozal_VIII as soon as i see it again :)
17:02<@Bjarni>well I use right side driving if it really doesn't matter but I sometimes do some track optimisation based on driving side
17:02<KaareMai>And about the lost trains: It keeps saying that when i let trains drive over very large networks and long distances
17:02<dihedral>Bjarni: i switch driving sides depending on the country i am in
17:02<KaareMai>however they always find their way anyway
17:02<@Bjarni>I picked left side when testing the Japanese GRF set to make it more "real"
17:02<Eddi|zuHause2>worse than that he is driving on wrong side, is, that his signals are on the wrong side for driving on the wrong side, and two wrongs do not automatically make a right
17:03<KaareMai>lol
17:03<dihedral>;-)
17:03<Eddi|zuHause2>in any case, signals should be on the outside
17:03[~]Bjarni imagines KaareMai ordering steam locomotives for his track layout
17:03<Eddi|zuHause2>there's even a patch setting for that...
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17:04<ben_goodger>good evening, humanoids
17:04<@Bjarni>"I drive in the left track". "ok, then we will give you left side driving engines so the driver can see the signals"
17:04<dihedral>KaareMai: hint: save games every month, and capture the event :-)
17:04<dihedral>and specify a date with the save
17:04<@Bjarni>and then you are screwed with your signal placements :P
17:04<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't the driver sit in the middle?
17:04<KaareMai>Well, it's a game running on my server, and the players get pretty annoyed of the long saving times
17:05<KaareMai>each autosave is 4MB
17:05<dihedral>Gonozal_VIII: perhaps that depends on the loc and the driver
17:05<fjb>I saw lost trains and trains which don't have a route at all (escaped from a depot) waiting in front of a red platform entry signal while the platform next to that one was free. There defenitly is a bug somewhere.
17:05<dihedral>but i beleive the driver sits either at the front or rear :-D
17:05<KaareMai>the mouse lags like hell just by moving it over the openttd window
17:05<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: not on steam locomotives. The fireman shovel coal in the middle
17:05<KaareMai>exactly fjb
17:05<KaareMai>i've seen that too
17:05<ben_goodger>this is not a good time to ask about routefinding algorithms?
17:05<dihedral>reproduceable?
17:05<@Bjarni>the driver is placed to the far left/right to be able to see around the boiler
17:05<KaareMai>its like they stop following signal rules if the arrive at a station that is not in their orders
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: that is no bug, a train without route can take a random (as in undefined) track
17:06<Eddi|zuHause2>it may or may not take the red light
17:06<Eddi|zuHause2>in any way, a lost train is a user bug
17:06<KaareMai>but if it has two possible lines in front of it, the one is red the other is green ,then it should take the green one?
17:07<fjb>When it happens, it usually happens at the same stations. Best way to find it will be to start some trains without orders.
17:07<KaareMai>sounds logical to me :)
17:07<Eddi|zuHause2>you cannot guess what you want it to do
17:07<Eddi|zuHause2>(from pathfinder view, it does not know wether the next signal is green or not)
17:08<KaareMai>O.o
17:08<Eddi|zuHause2>the pathfinder also does not know which exit signals are an option
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>you cannot calculate penalties without knowing the way :-)
17:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it only locally checks wether the current tile is a signal, and then sets a penalty for this branch
17:09<Eddi|zuHause2>it does that for every current end point
17:09<Eddi|zuHause2>and for the end point with the lowest current penalty, it checks the next tile
17:09<KaareMai>That sounds like an explanation to my problem
17:09<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2: i thought yapf looked 10 signals ahead
17:10<Eddi|zuHause2>dihedral: yes, but only if it actually encounters 10 signals
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17:10<Eddi|zuHause2>if the pathfinder runs into a dead end, it assigns infinite penalty for that route
17:10<Eddi|zuHause2>if no route exists, all routes are dead ends
17:10<Eddi|zuHause2>so all routes have infinite penalty
17:10<Eddi|zuHause2>so it can choose a random one
17:11<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s991088/K564.jpg <-- this is the view of the driver if he is located in the left side. As you can see it wouldn't make much sense to be in the middle ;)
17:11<Eddi|zuHause2>the only alternative to that is to not let the train go anywhere at all
17:11<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2: nice - thanks for that :-)
17:12<dihedral>good to know
17:12<@Bjarni>(I just uploaded this picture to show it to you guys... it's from my personal archive)
17:12<KaareMai>bjarni, that driver would love my rail system
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>not much too see from inside there
17:12<KaareMai>:D
17:12<KaareMai>"Full speed ahead, i don't care"
17:13<KaareMai>I don't think i can ever change sides now, would confuse the hell out of me
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>if there is a right curve ahead, you can't even see signals or other trains...
17:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: err... but that engine is running backwards (you see the wagon attached to it), shouldn't you look the other direction?
17:14<dihedral>i am off to bed - cu
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17:14<Eddi|zuHause2>dihedral: the pathfinder (in the current design) cannot handle turning around in dead ends, because it would need to know the train length to check wether a switch after turning could actually be taken
17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>it can handle turning around in depots, though
17:15<@Bjarni>http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s991088/firebox-fire.jpg http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s991088/firebox-pipes.jpg <-- this is basically what the middle is all about
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17:16<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: err... but that engine is running backwards (you see the wagon attached to it), shouldn't you look the other direction? <-- the engine was doing switching operations when I took the picture
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17:16<Gonozal_VIII>it isn't very realistic to let trains turn around at dead ends with the engine flipping from one side to the other anyways
17:16<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but until you implement shunting and turntables, you should deal with that limitation :p
17:17<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> it isn't very realistic to let trains turn around at dead ends with the engine flipping from one side to the other anyways <-- no, but damn I would have liked to be able to do that in real life at one time.... one switch turned out to be temporally unusable
17:17<@Bjarni>which resulted in a train on the end of the line with no way of getting the engine to the other end >_<
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>would be nice to have that in openttd too :-) has to run backwards very slow then...
17:18<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean temporarily, unless you want to team up with ln- as a trekky :p
17:18<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, but until you implement shunting and turntables, you should deal with that limitation :p <-- there is no need for turntables... tender engines can reverse better than you might expect
17:18<@Bjarni>damn that spelling thingie >_<
17:19<@Bjarni>picked the wrong word when I made a typo
17:19<@Bjarni>btw no comments about the last links to pics I just posted?
17:20<@Bjarni>you have to enjoy them or I will stop uploading
17:20<Eddi|zuHause2>what kind of comments do you expect?
17:20<@Bjarni>well... cool wouldn't be fitting :D
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>it's a hole with fire in it^^
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>not that impressive
17:21<@Bjarni>you can see the pipes in the boiler
17:21<Eddi|zuHause2>i have bigger problems right now...
17:21<@Bjarni>I bet you haven't seen that on a steam engine that's on before
17:21<Eddi|zuHause2>i need 6GB space for recordings, but i only have 4GB free, and my burner is broken, and the new one i ordered did not arrive yet
17:22<Gonozal_VIII>there are 500gb external hds for less than 100 euro available :-)
17:22<Eddi|zuHause2>but not within the next 2 hours
17:23<Eddi|zuHause2>and the burner costs only 20€
17:23<Eddi|zuHause2>and 100DVDs are way less than 100€
17:23<Gonozal_VIII>+ dvds + lots of discs everywhere that get lost or break
17:26<@Bjarni>IRC never fails to amaze me. I show you a picture of a hot hole and you guys ignore it... imagine what bash.org would get out of such a picture
17:27<Gonozal_VIII>hehehe
17:29<@Bjarni>at one time there was visitors in the engine to see it and a buy asked "can I touch it".... TOUCH THE FIREBOX WITH BURNING COAL INSIDE??????????????????????????????
17:29<@Bjarni>it's kind of hot
17:29<Gonozal_VIII>so you let him?
17:30<@Bjarni>not really
17:30<@Bjarni>somebody else stopped him
17:30<Gonozal_VIII>best way of learning
17:30<@Bjarni>the fireman and his parents
17:30<@Bjarni>while the crew were surprised at the question, the parents were frightened
17:31<@Bjarni>you can easily burn yourself to a state where you end up at the hospital
17:32<@Bjarni>somehow I think there would be problems if people are injured like that
17:32<@Bjarni>just think of railroad crossings... it's a problem for the railroads when they hit somebody who tries to cross when they are activated
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17:33<@Bjarni>there is a case where somebody jumped in front of a car on the freeway (he was hidden until the car was really close) and the driver was fined for killing this guy
17:34<Gonozal_VIII>they always want somebody to blame
17:34<Eddi|zuHause2>"fined" != "convicted"
17:34<@Bjarni>because even though he was below the speed limit, it was still too fast because he was unable to stop when a person showed up
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17:34<@Bjarni><EddizuHause2> "fined" != "convicted" <-- he refused to pay so it ended up in court, so he ended up getting convicted
17:34<Eddi|zuHause2>you can get fined for being involved in an accident, because accidents are a violation of the road rules
17:35<@Bjarni>but... to be fined because somebody goes to the middle of the freeway, hides behind a pillar on a bridge and waits for a car so he can commit suicide...
17:36<@Bjarni>the whole idea of committing suicide is to ensure that some random car can't avoid you
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>sure, the road rule's first article says that you should drive in a way that you avoid any kind of accident
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>if you violate that article, you can get fined for it
17:36<@Bjarni>but it also says that you aren't allowed to drive so slowly that you block traffic
17:36<Gonozal_VIII>it wasn't an accident
17:37<Eddi|zuHause2>"accident" meaning "unexpected interference of the road flow"
17:37<@Bjarni>that happened today. Some lorry broke and dropped the cargo all over the road
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17:38<@Bjarni>it was a full sewer cleaning car >_<
17:38<@Bjarni>nice way of blocking the road
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>note that he was not fined for killing the person, but for not being able to stop before hitting him
17:38<Gonozal_VIII>i can't see how you could avoid any random interference
17:38<@Bjarni>that's like being able to predict that a bird will show up out of nowhere at high speed
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: you can't, that's why it's just a set of rules, not a set of laws
17:39<@Bjarni>we aren't jedi knights... we can't see everything before it happens
17:39[~]Bjarni wants to use Japanese laws when it comes to road/railroad crossings
17:40<@Bjarni>if a car and a train hits each other then it's always the car driver that is to blame nomatter what
17:40<@Bjarni>even if the crossing is out of order
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17:40<Gonozal_VIII>nobody would drive say... 10 km/h through every bridge on the highway because somebody could jump out from behind a pillar...
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17:41<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: exactly, you can't follow all rules, so breaking them is not as serious as breaking a law
17:42<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> nobody would drive say... 10 km/h through every bridge on the highway because somebody could jump out from behind a pillar... <-- well... he was fined for not doing so
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2>but if you break a rule, and someting actually happens, you need to expect to get fined for it
17:42<@Bjarni>but he would be fined for doing so if nobody was waiting for him
17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>other example: you have precedence over the road from left, but someone comes from left violating the precedence, you have a straight lane ahead, and next to you is a pavewalk with no people on it
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17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>you have two options:
17:44<@Bjarni>I saw a lorry driver on TV because he had killed somebody and he was really upset because it turned out that this guy was committed to a mental hospital because he tried to commit suicide several times but he was free to go as he liked so he found somebody in there and said "let's do it together". The lorry only hit one of them
17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>you can go on straight, insisting on your right of way, causing an accident
17:45<Eddi|zuHause2>or you can break the rule of staying on the road, go on the pavewalk, and avoid an accident
17:45<@Bjarni>people generally pick the latter often without checking if it's free or not
17:45<@Bjarni>because then they will not get physically hurt themselves
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>people cause less damage to the car than other cars :-)
17:46<Eddi|zuHause2>if you choose the first way, you get a partial responsibility for the accident
17:47<Eddi|zuHause2>if you choose the second way, you may still get fined for going on the pavewalk
17:47<Eddi|zuHause2>and you get in real trouble if you actually hit a passant
17:47<Gonozal_VIII>that's stupid... good that i don't have to drive much
17:50<Eddi|zuHause2>there's a nice sentence of Gödel
17:50<Eddi|zuHause2>"any sufficiently complex set of rules is either incomplete or inconsistent"
17:51<Gonozal_VIII>i hear that a lot...
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17:54<@Bjarni>ohh... just remembered a nice story. There was a freeway in England where a car had stopped in the hard shoulder and the police noticed because it was right in front of one of their cameras. They went "oh it's a breakdown and he stopped right next to a phone" but then it turned out that nobody called from the phone so they were a bit pussled. There was no driver either but there was a guy lying on the passenger seat so they decide t
17:54<@Bjarni>o call the phone to ask if everything is all right. Everything became really clear when he went for the phone because there was a woman under him :D
17:54<@Bjarni>the police released that tape to TV... busted :P
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17:56<@Bjarni>I guess we all learned something from that... if you want to do it, then don't do it in front of a police camera in an illegally parked car
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18:13<@Bjarni>http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone-doesnt-send-imei-information-to-apple-324640.php <--- awesome photoshop (and the story is ok too)
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: have you seen this one? http://www.schandmaennchen.de/imer.jpg
18:16<@Bjarni>heh
18:16<@Bjarni>no
18:16<@Bjarni>well... now I have
18:17<Eddi|zuHause2>note that "Eimer" is the german word for bucket ;)
18:18<@Bjarni>I would like to know what data Apple get. Somehow I think the statistic explanation is true but I would like to know for sure
18:19<@Bjarni>I noticed some widgets phone home
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18:19<@Bjarni>but then one of them made a popup saying that I could download an update
18:20<@Bjarni>then I just blocked all widgets unless they really need net access (like the weather forecast one)
18:21<@Bjarni>there is the risk of spyware in all OSes
18:22<@Bjarni>I don't think Apple would be illegally spying on their customers and then abuse that info. If any company is caught doing that then it's bye bye
18:22<@Bjarni>nobody will ever buy their products again if that happens and they know that
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>"Ein Schelm, wer böses dabei denkt."
18:23|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
18:24<@Bjarni>damn my German is rusty :(
18:25<@Bjarni>what does Schelm mean?
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>difficult to explain
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it's kind of an outdated word
18:27<Eddi|zuHause2>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schelm
18:28<@Bjarni>Todbringer...
18:28<@Bjarni>ok
18:28<Eddi|zuHause2>(the article does even feature that exact same sentence)
18:28<@Bjarni>yeah I quickly realised that you didn't just make it up
18:29<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Garter is it the same?
18:29<SmatZ>hmm no
18:29<SmatZ>I wonder why this is linked page to English from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honi_soit_qui_mal_y_pense , that is linked from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schelm
18:29<SmatZ>too complex
18:29<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i can't open webpages anymore
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>"The order's emblem, depicted on insignia, is a garter with the motto Honi soit qui mal y pense (Old French: shame upon him who thinks evil of it)"
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>that is the phrase
18:32<@Bjarni>ahh now I get it... one word in a sentence really matters sometimes :)
18:33<@Bjarni>well... I actually said that it's not likely that it's the worst case scenario
18:33<@Bjarni>I trust 3rd party plugins that phones home somewhat less though
18:34<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it's a common phrase that usually appears in context of such stories
18:34<Eddi|zuHause2>like that the creator's MAC address appears in a word document (a few years ago)
18:35<@Bjarni>I didn't hear that one
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18:37<@Bjarni>but I just remembered another one... MS should be part of a greater plot to steal company information so American companies could learn stuff about other companies so they could get orders that they wouldn't get otherwise
18:38<SmatZ>CIA did the 9/11 !!!
18:38<@Bjarni>there was a whole lot of analysing at one time when Boring got a major order and it looked like the result of industrial spies
18:38<Gonozal_VIII>there never were any people on the moon!
18:39<SmatZ>FBI killed JFK
18:39<@Bjarni>when they are to make billions then I think they could do it (that goes for most companies if not all) but somehow I don't think the US government funded and controlled the spies
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18:40<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> there never were any people on the moon! <-- that's the truth so it doesn't fit in with the insane stories mentioned right now
18:40<Gonozal_VIII>the government uses iodine in the water to control the people's thoughts!
18:40<SmatZ>there are aliens among us
18:41<SmatZ>and government knows about it
18:41<Gonozal_VIII>government are all aliens!
18:41<SmatZ>Elvis lives!
18:41<@Bjarni>the US government will not public their reports on UFO sidings because they are proof of alien visits
18:41<Gonozal_VIII>hitler too
18:41<@Bjarni>that one was on the radio the other day
18:42<|fjb|>Iodine in the water? Did you watch Dr. Strangelove? :-)
18:43<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
18:43<@Bjarni>and with the statement that the government should have rejected publishing their archive because it would make mass hysteria because it contains the proof... somehow I don't think they said that because if they want to keep something like that secret then they wouldn't claim to be able to prove it
18:44<Eddi|zuHause2><Gonozal_VIII> the government uses iodine in the water to control the people's thoughts! <- actually, a lot of countries put flourides into the water ;)
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause2>(it's supposed to help with dental health)
18:45<@Bjarni>it has nasty sideeffects so I'm happy that we aren't doing that here
18:45<SmatZ>if you type Google into Google, the Internet will die
18:45<Eddi|zuHause2>(germany decided against this, so they put flourides into the salt instead)
18:46<@Bjarni>we put it in toothpaste instead XD
18:46<@Bjarni>you shouldn't eat it
18:46<Eddi|zuHause2>that's also done
18:46<SmatZ>:)
18:48<@Bjarni>here a lot of people had a specific disease based on lack of (something... I don't know the English name for it) so they decided to add it to salt. Now nobody has that disease anymore so now people want to remove it again
18:48<@Bjarni>I think I know what will happen if it's removed :P
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>skorbut
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>^^
18:48<SmatZ>iodide, calcium
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>no..
18:48<@Bjarni>no. not that
18:49<@Bjarni>it's not vitamin C
18:49<@Bjarni>it's not even a vitamin at all
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>yes... remembered while writing
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18:49<Gonozal_VIII>"kropf" is the thing with iodine
18:50<dihedral>night ladies
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18:50<@Bjarni>actually.... iodine could be the name in English :)
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18:50<@Bjarni>I will look it up tomorrow
18:50<@Bjarni>time for bed
18:50<@Bjarni>goodnight
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18:51<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.klinikum-lev.de/images/kropf5_2713.jpg
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>err... was that necessary?
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
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19:04<Szandor>Can someone enlighten me as to the choices for magic constants _tunnel_fractcoord_1[dir] etc.? I'm looking at tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp, line~1440, function VehicleEnter_TunnelBridge
19:04<Szandor>I've worked out what they do (how far along the tile before we're in the tunnel and need to disappear), but I don't know why those numbers were picked ofer any others
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21:46<fjb>How can I delete a sign that is on top of anouther sign (in 0.5.3)?
21:46<+glx>edit it and delete the text
21:47<fjb>Only the lower sign gets selected, not the upper.
21:51<Gonozal_VIII>you'll have to delete both and replace the lower with a new one then
21:52<fjb>I don't want to replace the lower, because I didn't make it.
21:55<fjb>Strange, I have some planes circling above an almost empty airport (0.5.3).
21:56<Gonozal_VIII>crashed plane in the way?
21:56<Gonozal_VIII>or zeppelin :-)
21:56<fjb>No, no, other airplanes are landing and starting there.
21:57<+glx>if a plane miss is turn to land, it returns in the loop
21:58<fjb>Both runways are free.
21:59<Gonozal_VIII>orders ok?
21:59<fjb>Yes, checked it
22:00<Gonozal_VIII>skip them and see if it happens again
22:00<fjb>http://www.myimg.de/?img=Impex18Okt2009cc384.png
22:00<fjb>Maybe that is the best idea.
22:01<Gonozal_VIII>broken down planes are very slow, they often circle for long times because faster planes overtake them
22:01<fjb>Problem is they have an engine malfunction and are really slow in 0.5.3 :-(
22:02<fjb>No faster planes were overtaking. That is the strange thing.
22:02<fjb>Both runways were free most of the time.
22:02<Gonozal_VIII>btw "fahre nach" for planes is stupid
22:03<+glx>hmm I can see a concorde in landing phase
22:03<fjb>That would be correct for airships only. :-)
22:04<+glx>oups it's already landed
22:04<Gonozal_VIII>the concorde is on the ground
22:04<fjb>Yes, but the other runway was still free. And the planes were circling there for over a year. The concorde was not always there. :-)
22:04<fjb>Oh, indded, is on the ground.
22:04<Gonozal_VIII>could be a bug but not one that i've heard from
22:05<fjb>I have never seen that before.
22:06<fjb>I will see if they are landing at the other airport.
22:06<fjb>Maybe it happend because I "stole" the other players goods. :-)
22:07<Gonozal_VIII>how?
22:08<Gonozal_VIII>wait a minute... the plane 62 doesn't have that airport in its orders
22:08<fjb>I have a better connection to his factory. He transports grain and animals to the factory and I'm taking the products, carry them to the aitrport and fly them to the other side of the world. :-)
22:09<Gonozal_VIII>that shouldn't have anything to do with circling planes
22:09<Gonozal_VIII>are there service at orders in 0.5.3?
22:10<fjb>Oh, thank you, that must have happened when I did an upgrade to the airport. I havebt seen that. thank you.
22:10<Gonozal_VIII>ah that other airport is not an airport at all
22:11<Gonozal_VIII>shouldn't that be invalid order?
22:12<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm no... stays valid
22:12<fjb>A train station with that name still exists. It was linked before.
22:12<Gonozal_VIII>but you should get a message about that
22:13<Gonozal_VIII>the order stays valid in the order list but you get a message about invalid orders
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22:13<Gonozal_VIII>just tested it
22:14[~]glx ->Sleep()
22:14<fjb>Hm, I should recheck my news options.
22:14<Gonozal_VIII>night glx
22:14<fjb>:-) Good night glx
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22:15<fjb>It's working much better now. I think I'm too tired. Thank you.
22:16<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
22:17<Gonozal_VIII>yay, finished my newgrf selection for the weekend gaming session :D
22:18<fjb>Oh, good, it's not easy now.
22:18<fjb>"Steeling" happens here: http://www.myimg.de/?img=Impex15Nov201080b7e.png
22:18<Gonozal_VIII>yes... so many good grfs around
22:19<fjb>Yes, and it's getting better. Many new grfs are in the work.
22:19<Gonozal_VIII>some work fine together but others don't... had to test a lot
22:19<fjb>I'm not that happy about bridges and road combinations yet.
22:19<Gonozal_VIII>i've found a good one :-)
22:20<fjb>Which one?
22:20<Gonozal_VIII>newbridgesW.grf with param 2
22:21<Gonozal_VIII>and the european roadset
22:21<fjb>What is param 2 doing?
22:21<Gonozal_VIII>sets the bridges to fit euroroads
22:21<fjb>I don't like the europead road set that much. And the UK roadset complains about TTRS, even when the roads of TTRS are disabled.
22:22<Gonozal_VIII>yes, ttrs param 3 set to 0 for road disabling...
22:22<fjb>The admin of the server I'm playing on didn't enable better loadeing. .-(
22:23<fjb>Disabling the TTRS roads is mentioned in the UK road set readme, but that conbination still doesn't work.
22:23<Gonozal_VIII>didnt try uk road set, i like the european
22:24<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/newgrf.htm
22:24<Gonozal_VIII>that's the grflist
22:24<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
22:25<Gonozal_VIII>serbian railset is great for ecs
22:26<fjb>The european road set looks a bit boring.
22:27<fjb>I didn't try the serbian railset yet.
22:27<fjb>What is srvtt?
22:27<Gonozal_VIII>serbian trams
22:28<fjb>Ah, ok. I prefer the dutch trams because they are articulated. Looks cute.
22:29<Gonozal_VIII>yes but they replace too many of the lv4 trucks
22:29<fjb>New terrain? What does it do? Replace the fields?
22:30<Gonozal_VIII>the grass... looks more grassy and without a grid
22:31<fjb>I have patches the dutch tram set. Now it works proper with LV4. The serbian trams can have another problem with LV4. LV4 raises the base costs. Maybe the running costs of the trams are much too high then.
22:31<fjb>How do you cound tiles without the grid?
22:32<Gonozal_VIII>i don't have to count tiles, the game does that :-)
22:33<fjb>How?
22:33<fjb>I'm hitting the plane limit of this server soon. :-(
22:33<Gonozal_VIII>i play nightlies, when you drag some tool there it counts the length
22:35<Gonozal_VIII>tram costs could be higher then intended, i don't know but they fit to the other vehicles and money is not an issue anyways
22:35<fjb>Oh, I never noticed that...
22:36<fjb>I could never make any profid with trams in combination with LV4. The running costs are raised 8 times by LV4.
22:37<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm how much running cost does your most expensive tram have?
22:38<Gonozal_VIII>4300 euro per year is the rotram which can hold 202 passengers... that's ok
22:39<fjb>It should be 1/8 of that. You can never make any profit on the short distances that trams are going that way.
22:39<fjb>Compare it to the running costs of the busses.
22:39<Gonozal_VIII>i don't use them as stand alone transport, they only transfer to airports or docks
22:40<Gonozal_VIII>and train stations of course..
22:41<Gonozal_VIII>the dolphin intercity bus has 120 passengers and 3100 euro per year
22:41<fjb>I also do. But why should I use them, when busses with equal size are making profit.
22:41<Gonozal_VIII>and my trams always make profit :-)
22:41<fjb>Hm, than it is almost equal.
22:41<Gonozal_VIII>it's so easy to make profit...
22:42<fjb>Then the tramset is "optimized" for LV4 and has no problems. :-)
22:42<fjb>Yes, the bigger problem is to spend the money.
22:43<Gonozal_VIII>just to get rid of the money you could always blow up some water....
22:43<fjb>The problem with ECs is to connect the imoportant things before they are closing down. :-)
22:43<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
22:43<fjb>Blowing up water? Never tryed it. Maybe I could get some fish that way.
22:44<Gonozal_VIII>costs a lot and doesn't change anything because it floods
22:44<fjb>I never understand why people prefer to play on a flat world. Where is the fun then? Isn't it getting boring that easy?
22:45<fjb>Doesn't di anything and is fun. :-)
22:45<fjb>do
22:46<Gonozal_VIII>i play on difficulty hard (custom because i set competitors to 0)
22:46<Gonozal_VIII>and since ecs mostly small maps like 256^2
22:47<Gonozal_VIII>coop with a friend most of the time
22:48<fjb>And I always allow trains to change direction in stations. It is stupid when they are not allowed to do it. Doesn't make the game more difficult, is just stupid. I never heard that a train drove to the other side of a country because it couldn't change it's direction in any station.
22:48<fjb>256² is too small for realistic trains. :-)
22:49<Gonozal_VIII>no i don't like that changing direciton in stations...
22:49<Gonozal_VIII>and... enable building very long trains: off
22:49<fjb>I'm trying to get e friend into it. He really likes the game, but doen't like to play with me. He usually wins every game, but i'm better at this game. So he doen't want to play with me.
22:50<fjb>Why do you only build short trains?
22:50<Gonozal_VIII>it's a bit harder then
22:51<Gonozal_VIII>i also set the weight multiplier at least to 5
22:51<fjb>But looks a bit ridicules when a havy fright engine only has 5 wagons.
22:51<Gonozal_VIII>9 wagons :-)
22:52<fjb>Most engines still lough about that weight. :-)
22:52<Gonozal_VIII>could try a higher setting now with the narrow gauge set... when i tested them they were very good at climbing hills
22:53<fjb>And what is the disabvantage of allowing trainsd to turn in stations? That only leads to building a turn around the station or after the station.
22:54<Gonozal_VIII>they never have to do that in my networks
22:54<fjb>Real freight engines easily pull 80 or more wagons.
22:54<Gonozal_VIII>only roro stations
22:54<Gonozal_VIII>i don't see such big trains around here
22:55<fjb>The satnadard roro design that gets proposed looks always the same and doesn't look any realistic. It always looks like standard TTD design. :-)
22:56<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/station.png <-- that's one of my standard designs
22:56<fjb>You only see that trains on the main lines. And they usually go by night.
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22:57<Gonozal_VIII>but not that big usually... that size is only vor huge ammounts of freight
22:57<fjb>I have seen that before. Takes much room. but ooks like a toy design, not like a real station. :-)
22:58<fjb>You see trains that long on the main lines in germany, north to south, east to west.
22:58<Gonozal_VIII>i'm here at a small sideline in austria, our trains have 3-4 cars...
22:59<fjb>One of that trais derailed last year in Hannover. Not much happened, they only nedded some ours to put it back onto the rails.
22:59<fjb>Be lucky that a sideline is still serviced today. :-)
23:00<Gonozal_VIII>they were talking about shutting it down several times...
23:00<fjb>You could look at the airial pictures of big stations on google maps. That is real fun. :-)
23:01<Gonozal_VIII>that's stupid, road traffic gets more and more and rail transport is now less then 50 years ago
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23:01<Gonozal_VIII>you're strike won't help to get more passengers/goods onto the rails either
23:02<Gonozal_VIII>your..
23:02<Gonozal_VIII>always mix that up when typing
23:03<Gonozal_VIII>last week at the station in linz i saw many trains leaving, not a single delay...
23:03<Gonozal_VIII>and then there is a german train... 50 minutes late
23:03<fjb>It is really sad. The rail is dying and you can't use the streads anymore because of more and more and bigger and bigger trucks.
23:04<Gonozal_VIII>the trucks should only be used to bring the stuff to the next railstation, not more
23:04<fjb>Don't talk about the german railway. It's stupid what they are doing now. Everybody loughs at them.
23:06<fjb>He, he, I'm doing nothing in the game while we are chatting now. My company stays in good chape. The companies of the other players who left the game are getting worse and worse. :-)
23:07<Gonozal_VIII>well... you have lots of planes... all planes crash after some time
23:08<fjb>Only one crashed for me in this game. :-)
23:09<fjb>Did you see my "steeling" picture? The player made a stupid failure with his roro station...
23:10<Gonozal_VIII>they have very sharp corners...
23:10<Gonozal_VIII>tight... not sharp... don't know
23:11<Gonozal_VIII>but should work
23:11<Gonozal_VIII>oh..
23:12<Gonozal_VIII>the depot exit leads back to the station
23:12<fjb>He has many trains at that station. They are waiting for the freight and then want to go to the depot when leaving. There they lock. And it needs months for them to unlock. At least it unlocks. But in the meantime I'm getting all the freight. :-)
23:13<Gonozal_VIII>that's indeed stupid of him
23:14<Gonozal_VIII>and the trains shouldn't service after loading....
23:14<fjb>But he build a large pyramid in the see with his HQ on the top before leaving. very cool. :-)
23:14<Gonozal_VIII>hehe i did that too
23:14<Gonozal_VIII>or in the water on water level surrounded by canal tiles
23:14<fjb>he put a sign on it with his name. I put a sign over it. :-)
23:15<Gonozal_VIII>but i wouldn't do that on multiplayer...
23:15<fjb>That last idea is indeed cool. But the pyramid is not cool.
23:16<fjb>In multiplayer it is there to show the other players that he is the king. But he isn't. :-)
23:16<fjb>I'm better and I started later. :-)
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23:18<Gonozal_VIII>i like roro stations better than your design, especially with the long lines without signals in front of it... i think a single roro platform would be able to have the same throughput
23:18<fjb>I'm the only one using road vehicles. The other are making the station aerea big.
23:19<Gonozal_VIII>i try to use every kind of transportation in my games
23:19<Gonozal_VIII>ships can make a good profit btw
23:20<fjb>Infact the long lines are train lenght and not nedded. I usually don't build them but I wanted to be on the safe side because the better loading is not enabled in that game.
23:20<fjb>I like ships, but there is no water near my airport. Else I had used ships.
23:21<fjb>I stole him the passengers from his heli station using busses. :-)
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23:21<Gonozal_VIII>aaaand you do realise that the depots have a combo inside which renders the entry signals in front of your station useless
23:21<fjb>It's more fun to be better with seamingly less capable vehicles. :-)
23:22<fjb>Yes, I'm aware of that. It still works. The new pathfinder is not that stupid. You often can get away without signal blocks.
23:23<Gonozal_VIII>it is a signal block.. but it has three exits, if both platforms are full, the next train will enter the depot and the entry signal doesn't do anything
23:24<fjb>I'm still experimenting with this design. I sometimes build the depots outside the station.
23:25<fjb>The train is waiting in front of the presignal and not going into the depot. There is a plain signal in the depot, not a block end signal.
23:25<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm
23:25<Gonozal_VIII>it should be a combo
23:26<fjb>My planes don't keep up with the goods from the factory. :-(
23:26<Gonozal_VIII>if it's not, then it is a entry
23:26<Gonozal_VIII>but not plain
23:26<fjb>Don't know for sure what it is, but it is no exit signal.
23:26<Gonozal_VIII>it keeps the trains inside when exits are blocked
23:26<fjb>Then it is an entry signal.
23:26<Gonozal_VIII>seems to be... i thought it was a combo
23:28<Gonozal_VIII>but combo or entry doesn't matter for the way i use it
23:29<fjb>How do you build you station design in the mountains?
23:29<Gonozal_VIII>lots smaller^^
23:30<Gonozal_VIII>there are only one or two platforms needed for most industries
23:30<fjb>The depot needs stimm some room.
23:30<Gonozal_VIII>that design is for games without ecs where a single factory can produce tens of thousands of goods
23:31<fjb>Oh, this factore is making more than 1200 boxes...
23:32<fjb>Most are mine. :-)
23:32<Gonozal_VIII>i'm talking mor like 40k crates :-)
23:32<fjb>No wonder my planes are not able to keep up.
23:33<fjb>I'm usually plaing with ECS. I'm not used to that numbers.
23:34<Gonozal_VIII>ecs hasn't been around for long, i played many years with standard industries
23:35<fjb>I know TTD since abou 2 months ago.
23:36<fjb>The planes in 0.5.3 are sloooooooooow....
23:37<Gonozal_VIII>vehicle speeds are not the same for different vehicle types there...
23:37<Gonozal_VIII>was the same in ttd
23:38<Gonozal_VIII>a train could overtake a plane :-)
23:38<Gonozal_VIII>^^
23:38<fjb>:-)
23:38<Gonozal_VIII>and yes... depot has entry, not combo
23:39<fjb>But the planes are really sloooooooow...
23:39<fjb>:-)
23:39<Gonozal_VIII>why don't you just play nightly or 0.6.0 beta?
23:39<fjb>He has 4 passengers at his heli station, I'm having 608 at the bus stop next to it. :-)
23:40<Gonozal_VIII>do you have a statue in that town?
23:40<fjb>Because this is a public server. I'm playing nightly builds when i'm playing alone or with friends.
23:40<Gonozal_VIII>increases rating by 10%
23:40<fjb>Yes, but it was that way even before I build the statue.
23:41<Gonozal_VIII>there are also public nightly and 0.6 servers
23:41<fjb>I have more busses than he helicopters. :-)
23:42<fjb>This is dehidrals server. Just wanted to try it.
23:42<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
23:42<Gonozal_VIII>helis are nice for tourists :-)
23:42<fjb>Yes, or for getting fish. :-)
23:43<Gonozal_VIII>i sometimes connect some towns where i transport passengers by train, mail with trucks and tourists take the helis
23:43<fjb>But the ultimate fishing tool is the Skylift.
23:44<fjb>Not a bad choice. Tourists are paying good.
23:44<fjb>I usually build a heli port next to my HQ. For the important guests... :-)
23:45<Gonozal_VIII>most of the time i don't build the hq at all
23:48<fjb>I'm usually building it late in the game, in one of the cities where I started. It is just kind of a connection to that cities, home of my company. Once I put my first locomotion in front of the HQ. Lokked nice.
23:49<Gonozal_VIII>you put your first engine on an abandoned track in front of your hq?
23:49<Gonozal_VIII>sounds like a nice idea :-)
23:49<fjb>Yes. :-)
23:51<fjb>The HQ was on a hill above the city. The first line ran nort far behind the HQ. The engine was in a depot, don't remember why I hadn't sold it. Mybe I had forgotten about it. I build a line to the front of the HQ, moved the engine there and removed the line.
23:52<Gonozal_VIII>cool :-)
23:52<Gonozal_VIII>i don't have forgotten engines because i use autoreplace...
23:53<fjb>Once I put my first "Rheingold" express train at an unsused track next to a station for display and fun of the tourists after it was too old to use it.
23:53<fjb>When it just stays in the depot without ever leaving it the engine doesn't get replaced.
23:54<Gonozal_VIII>yes but i don't put engines into the depot and leave them there
23:54<Gonozal_VIII>i either assign them to another line or sell them
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23:56<fjb>I build a better engine for the freight train and wanted to build a passenger train with that old engine. But the passenger train never got build...
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23:57<Gonozal_VIII>"fuß-sandwich-contest" on pro 7....
23:57<fjb>And later in the game I was glad to still have this cute old engine.
23:57<fjb>Oh, I should go to bed. :-)
23:58<Gonozal_VIII>i don't have to go to uni until 16:30 today :-)
23:59<nairan>gonozal: it wasi torist center =P
23:59<nairan>but shouldnt it tourist center?
---Logclosed Thu Nov 22 00:00:08 2007