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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-23

---Logopened Fri Nov 23 00:00:03 2007
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03:09<dihedral>morning
03:10<hylje>morning!
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03:17<dihedral>@seen skidd13
03:17<@DorpsGek>dihedral: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 18 hours, 15 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <skidd13> dihedral: please be patient and stop asking me all the questions you'll see!
03:18<dihedral>:-S
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03:40<dihedral>SpComb: which file of yours parses settincs.cpp?
03:40<dihedral>for myottd that is
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04:18<dihedral>@seen Bjarni
04:18<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 9 hours, 27 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Bjarni> goodnight
04:18<dihedral>well - then one could assume he is up by now :-P
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06:08<lino>I'm not really sure if my question is foolish: Is it only me that a couple of strings of my translation of OpenTTD do not fit with the space available?
06:08<lino>I'm slightly confused about this, because it is like that for a really long time now and some dialogs are really barely useable.
06:08<lino>I wonder if it is just a lack of translation or if i can change this by myself (another font, screen resolution, ...)
06:10<lino>Em, sorry! The translation I am talking about is the German one - an affected dialog is the replace vehicles dialog for example.
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06:10<fjb>Moin
06:10<dihedral>huhu
06:10<fjb>:-)
06:10<dihedral>lino - i think that has already been fixed in later revisions
06:11<fjb>I saw the games of yesterday already ended. Is there a way to see who won?
06:11<dihedral>you could possibly find a sav in pub.dihedral.de/openttd/FP1
06:12<lino>dihedral: later than what? It's in the most recent nightly... using r11499 atm
06:12<fjb>dihedral: I'm curious if my company was set up good enough for the time I was sleeping.
06:13<fjb>dihedral: When did the game end?
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06:13<dihedral>lino: thought you were refering to another version ;-0
06:13<dihedral>fjb: i have no idea
06:15<fjb>dihedral: Ok. Did the modified buildig cost grf change?
06:15<dihedral>we took it out for now
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06:15<dihedral>but perhaps move the questions regarding my servers to another channle
06:16<dihedral>:-
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06:19<lino>hm, so there is nothing i can do?
06:21<lino>...beside joining web translator
06:21<SpComb>dihedral: trunk/openttd/openttd.py
06:23<dihedral>lino: perhaps talking to someone here :-)
06:23<dihedral>thank you SpComb
06:23<lino>Is there a discussion place or something like that? Perhaps there are some reasons that some translations are like they are.
06:23<dihedral>tt-forums.net bugs.openttd.org
06:24<lino>hm, is something like this a bug?
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06:37<dihedral>BigBB: the TextColor enums in gfx.h dont work...
06:37<dihedral>they will change the color on the console
06:38<dihedral>but not the text color displayed in the chat shown in the game directly
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06:44<lino>Sure German often needs more space than English, but the current translation is a little bit intricate... double phrases... just wonder no German speaking user is bothered by this.
06:44<lino>But ok, i will sum up what i notice and change it for myself first... if I'm happy with my changes i try to contact the right person (whoever this may be)
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06:45<lino>thank you dihedral
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06:59<Ammler>flag bug fixed?
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07:02<dihedral>Ammler: what flag bug?
07:02<Ammler>dihedral: the english flag was a american
07:02<dihedral>and now it's not?
07:03<Ammler>no, now its uk :)
07:03<dihedral>lol
07:03<dihedral>or is there another language one can set
07:04<Ammler>maybe its possible to set now american too, no idea
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07:09<Ammler>dihedral: why do you need to change the order of grfs?
07:09<dihedral>are not some grf combinations sensitive to order they are loaded at?
07:10<Ammler>yeah, thats why our pack is so cool
07:10<Ammler>because the orders should have be aware of that...
07:11<dihedral>...
07:12<dihedral>you mean that they are named like that to satisfy dependancies?
07:12<dihedral>and order?
07:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11500 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Smooth economy fine-tuning, making industries more responsive. Patch by Sirkoz.
07:12<dihedral>nice
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08:00<SmatZ>hello
08:00<Gonozal_VIII>hi
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08:33<dihedral>Rubidium: could 'building on slopes' bo _not_ affected by rais/lower land base cost, but by the 'miscelaneous' one ?
08:34<dihedral>or anyhow separated from 'rais/lower land' in any way?
08:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: egladil * r11501 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (wnd_quartz.mm wnd_quickdraw.mm): -Fix: [OSX] This remedies a problem with right click scrolling that was introduced in r11492.
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10:24<prophet>hi!
10:24<prophet>i've just installed openttd 6.0 beta
10:24<dihedral>well done
10:25<prophet>but for some reason i can't use the trams. I allready treid inserting the generic tram set but it doesn't wan't to be displayed in grf list
10:25<prophet>:P
10:25<dihedral>well... then may i assume you just might have done something wrong :-P
10:25<Ammler>how did you do that
10:25<Eddi|zuHause2>in what directory did you put them?
10:25<dihedral>you put the generic tramset.grf into data?
10:26<prophet>no in /home/username/.openttd/grf
10:26<prophet>and then i tried adding it in game with the list but he doesbn't even shows ist
10:26<dihedral>try /home/username/.openttd/data
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10:26<prophet>s/ist/is
10:27<dihedral>i sense a german speaker ;-P
10:27<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean "it" :)
10:28<prophet>yes i'm typing to fast
10:28<prophet>well thanks that works fine in data, but why does it not work in the grf folder? All other grfs work in there to!
10:29<+glx>no grf can be found if not in data tree
10:30<prophet>but asll others in the grf tree are found!
10:31<dihedral>perhaps they are in ./data
10:31<dihedral>where . = the directory where openttd resids in or depending on the options you configured it with before compiling
10:32<prophet>oh your right tha are in data...
10:32<prophet>i just had a cody in grf
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10:32<dihedral>:-)
10:33<prophet>well thx and a nice evening
10:33<prophet>bye
10:34<Ammler>prophet: you can have as much directories as you like as long as they are in ./data :)
10:34<prophet>:D
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11:28<@Belugas>Anyone working with Verifone 1000Se PINPad?
11:28<dihedral>hello there Belugas :-)
11:28<@Belugas>hey dihedral
11:35<@Belugas>looks like a big "no"
11:35<dihedral>well... more like a pretty silent one :-D
11:40<@Belugas>i had very littlehope of a yes, to be honest
11:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11502 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
11:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r11144): don't do standard production change if callbacks 29/35 failed
11:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r11144): disable smooth economy for industries using callbacks 29/35
11:52<dihedral>glx: what are those callbacks?
11:53<+glx>random/monthly industry production change
11:53<dihedral>so if they use monthly they are not smooth?
11:53[~]dihedral is probably getting something wrong :-P
11:54<+glx>without any callbacks, smooth is done monthly
11:54<@Belugas>there are two different production scheme : traditionnal and smooth. Only traditionnal is allowed while using grf
11:54<dihedral>oh...
11:55<dihedral>btw. i saw you commited a patch by SirkoZ
11:55<@Belugas>if they are specifying any kind of prod callback, that is...
11:55<dihedral>that will probably make him all happy bunnies :-P
11:55<@Belugas>sharp eye ;)
11:55<dihedral>yes - i have a highlight for that name
11:55<@Belugas>Sirkiz
11:55<@Belugas>Sirkoz
11:56<dihedral>thanks
11:58<@Belugas>Sirkoz
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12:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11503 /branches/noai/ (279 files in 22 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r11308:11502.
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12:37<Unknown_Entity>what could be the reason that the sprites from openttdw.grf aren't loaded at all? even though the md5 check runs fine.
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12:59<Ammler>Unknown_Entity: maybe because there is no openttdw.grf. (w)
13:00<Unknown_Entity>Ammler: of course there is, otherwise the md5 chek would complain
13:02<Ammler>hmm, which version do you play?
13:02<Ammler>or dd you like to
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13:03<Unknown_Entity>latest svn, the code only changed recently. this is on my (not yet fully working) ds port
13:05<Unknown_Entity>now louding the openttd sprites is done with LoadNewGRF() instead of LoadGrfIndexed() and there's the problem somewhere
13:05<Unknown_Entity>*loading
13:07<Ammler>ok, I have no idea, I only can say there is none openttdw.grf
13:07<+glx>Ammler: check better
13:07<Ammler>:)
13:07<Ammler>I did
13:08<Ammler>and there is now, lok
13:08<Ammler>glx: what are they for?
13:08<Ammler>I hope, not windows and dos
13:09<+glx>openttd[wd].grf replaces openttd.grf, flags.grf, ... using action 5
13:10<+glx>and the correct palette
13:10<Ammler>but for what is the dos version needed?
13:11<+glx>for people using dos ttd files
13:11<Ammler>ah, ok
13:12<dihedral>the dos grf's are ugly
13:12<dihedral>i used them and only realized _after_ wwottdgd
13:12<dihedral>:-P
13:12<+glx>dos grfs are ok if you use dos version of newgrf
13:13<Ammler>glx: but does it make sense to support both palette with openttd?
13:13<Ammler>is that not just waste of time for you?
13:14<Ammler>or did you do that all the time, and we didn't recognize it :)
13:14<+glx>we always supported them, just our grf had only windows palette
13:14<Ammler>so know, you can also use a dos grf, doesn't matter?
13:15<Ammler>no lila colors...
13:16<Ammler>but you will make different release for final 0.6?
13:18<+glx>no, why?
13:19<Unknown_Entity>the download is 370kb bigger :P
13:21<Unknown_Entity>but back to my problem... so it'i action 5 that should load the sprites?
13:21<+glx>yes it's a newgrf
13:23<Unknown_Entity>i do get debug output, but it's mostly like "Skipping n sprites"
13:24<Ammler>glx: I don't like redundancy
13:24<Ammler>hmm, for such things
13:25<Ammler>I have still no clue, why someone should need the dos version...
13:26<+glx>because some people only have dos version CD
13:28<+glx>Unknown_Entity: redirect "openttd -d grf9" output to a file (stderr is enough)
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13:30<Unknown_Entity>glx: unfortunately that's not possible. ds development sucks in those regards. i could only makl screenshots xD
13:31<+glx>can you use -l ip[:port] = Redirect DEBUG() ?
13:33<Unknown_Entity>nah, i don't have any netork code on it :(
13:34<Unknown_Entity>is the grf replacing done in stage 5 only?
13:35<+glx>yes
13:35<Ammler>glx, me too, but there are enough download links on the web
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>but they are of questionable legality
13:35<Ammler>omg
13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>not "omg", this is an issue for some people
13:36<+glx>Ammler: you can't force the owner of a dos version to get the windows version
13:36<Unknown_Entity>hmm, i's only doing stages 0,2,3 and 4
13:37<Ammler>of course, I understand, but... hmm, I check the size of the revision now), It was a nice 2 mega zip before
13:40<Ammler>yeah, forgot my comments, it doesn't really matter. :)
13:41<+glx>Unknown_Entity: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/grf9.txt <-- that's the loading of openttdw.grf for me
13:41<+glx>Ammler: yes different files may give better compression :)
13:42<Ammler>hmm, maybe a openttdl.grf :P
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13:43<Unknown_Entity>glx: thanks. apparently it's doing most of it, except for stage 5
13:43<Ammler>serious, this w isn't needed, imo
13:44<+glx>Unknown_Entity: using clean trunk?
13:45<Unknown_Entity>glx: not clean, no. it has my modifications to run on the ds of course
13:45<+glx>maybe one of this modification broke it
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14:04<SpComb>verb noun
14:05<hylje>verbing of nouns weirds the language
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>is weirding the language
14:05<SpComb>has weirded the language
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>has been weirdening the language for too long!
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>weirdening is cooler :-)
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>you know what's weird? our numbers... we say two and thirty instead of thirty-two
14:09<Gonozal_VIII>our (german)
14:11<hylje>i took up a book on ++c
14:12<hylje>maybe ill hack a patch or two for ottd too
14:12<LordAzamath>dtto
14:12<LordAzamath>:D
14:12<Gonozal_VIII>nice :-)
14:16<@Belugas>don't hack. do it right
14:17<SpComb>hack in PBS
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
14:17<SpComb>copy-paste in the asm from TTD Patch and then runtime monkey-patch it into OpenTTD
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>wtf?
14:18<Rotonen>not everyone is as well versed in reverse engineering and backhacking.. :)
14:18<Rotonen>so should not really count as an universal solution, even if it is one per se
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14:19<Gonozal_VIII>daylength patch :-)
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>i miss that one in the trunk
14:20<Rotonen>train speed limit removal would also be nice to have for some games
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14:22<Gonozal_VIII>for very busy lines that can slow the trains down instead of letting them go faster
14:23<Gonozal_VIII>a train is a little bit faster than the one in fromt, hits a red light, stops and has to accelerate again...
14:23<Gonozal_VIII>chain reaction back
14:24<Rotonen>that's just a sign of poor design
14:25<Eddi|zuHause2><Gonozal_VIII> i miss that one in the trunk <- then go through the code and decide for each variable if it should depend on days, ticks or both (patch setting)
14:25<Gonozal_VIII>not really... how would you avoid that?
14:25<Gonozal_VIII>i just want a day to take more ticks, rest should stay the same
14:26<Gonozal_VIII>(assuming production, movement... is based on ticks)
14:26<Eddi|zuHause2><Gonozal_VIII> you know what's weird? our numbers... we say two and thirty instead of thirty-two <- actuall that's not weird, it's a remnant of them being arabic numbers
14:26<Eddi|zuHause2>arabs read from right to left
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>yes but we don't so it's always annoying when you have to write down numbers when somebody says them that way
14:27<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: this is not about what _you_ want, this is about how it could work for >90% of the people
14:28<Gonozal_VIII>i know, but i don't know what other people think
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14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>for example, some people would like to have the running costs based on days, so they are independent from the daylength setting
14:30<Eddi|zuHause2>to balance that, the time based income of cargo should also be lowerd
14:30<Gonozal_VIII>sounds complicated
14:31<Eddi|zuHause2>which is exactly why it has not been done...
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14:39<Gonozal_VIII>daylength 10 = divide every income/10?
14:40<Gonozal_VIII>should balance everything, even the fact that an engine can make more trips in its lifetime
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16:17<Gonozal_VIII>hmm there is 5times the ip 66.74.155.152 in the server list when i click find server and the grey marker line jumps around between them
16:20<+glx>added by hand?
16:20<Gonozal_VIII>no they appeared after i clicked find server
16:20<Gonozal_VIII>they are not in the cfg
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>now they're gone
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16:48<djal>hi
16:48<djal>somebody there ?
16:48<MrBrrr>Hey there!
16:48<djal>:)
16:49<djal>are there graphists here?
16:49<@Belugas>ther's a lot of "somebody" in here
16:49<djal>:)
16:49<MrBrrr>By the way, great job on the beta release!
16:50<MrBrrr>There are two little possibles "issues" I would like to mention.
16:50<Gonozal_VIII>don't ask if xyz is here, just say what you want to say
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16:53<djal>are there officials programmers ?? here :)
16:53<+glx>MrBrrr: then just mention them
16:53<MrBrrr>Well, if a train busts it's service interval, it's order won't change if it's set at "Go to Depot X" and it does enter said Depot X.
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16:55<Gonozal_VIII>you mean you can't change the order manually then?
16:56<Gonozal_VIII>or it wants to enter the depot again?
16:56<MrBrrr>It's order stays the same, it doesn't move on.
16:56<MrBrrr>So, yeah, it still wants to enter the depot.
16:56<MrBrrr>And you can't make it "skip" it's Depot order using the "Go To Depot" Button.
16:57<Gonozal_VIII>use service at instead of go to depot
16:57<+glx>with go to depot it stops in the depot
16:57<+glx>and you must restart it
16:57<MrBrrr>Yup.
16:58<+glx>that's intended
16:58<MrBrrr>But putting that aside, it won't automatically change order.
16:59<MrBrrr>If the train busts it's service interval, it won't change order after entering Depot X.
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>once or never?
16:59<MrBrrr>As far as I can tell after testing, never.
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>if it's once, then one depot visit is for service and the other is because the depot is in its orders
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>then using service at would fix it
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>then the train only enters if it needs servicing and also doesn't service anywhere else
17:02<MrBrrr>Still, doesn't feel right at all.
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17:03<Gonozal_VIII>go to depot is like go to waypoint or station, it goes there no matter what
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17:04<MrBrrr>What should happen when a train busts it's service interval for any reason?
17:05<Gonozal_VIII>if it has no depot in its orders, it will search for the nearest one and service there
17:05<MrBrrr>If it does have a depot in it's orders?
17:06<Gonozal_VIII>if the order has service at, the train will service there
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>i just tested, yes, the order doesn't change the first time it enters
17:08<MrBrrr>Yup.
17:09<MrBrrr>But it seems to only affect the Go to Depot order.
17:09<hylje>i think a "chance to go in depot" order would be good
17:09<hylje>for optimization
17:09<Gonozal_VIII>chance to go in depot?
17:10<Gonozal_VIII>if you click service at a depot order, it only enters if it needs service and then moves on to the next order
17:11<MrBrrr>Hmmm.
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>regular go to depot order is more like a waypoint thing
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17:11<MrBrrr>Still.
17:11<chu_>hi
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>at first it enters the depot because it needs servicing...
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>then it moves on to its next order which is to enter the depot
17:12<MrBrrr>I understand the concept.
17:12<MrBrrr>But it doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't behave like that.
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>use service at and your problem is solved :-)
17:13<MrBrrr>But I want to force it to go in it's little Depot, every time.
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm
17:14<MrBrrr>Worst than that, even if I disable service intervals, it still "hangs" on it's Go to Depot order.
17:14<Gonozal_VIII>then you could add another optional depot, that way it will not choose the forced depot for random servicing
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>well, you order it to go there
17:15<MrBrrr>Right, but it's not it's only order.
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>you could set its service interval to a very high value, then it will most likely not look for random service and your forced depot order will work...
17:21<MrBrrr>True.
17:21<MrBrrr>But it doesn't work when I disable the thing, odd :)
17:22<Gonozal_VIII>how do you disable servicing? that only works with breakdowns set to none and then it wouldn't make sense to force the train into a depot
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17:23<MrBrrr>default service interval set to "disabled"
17:23<MrBrrr>Oh wait, what does that do anyway?
17:23<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know^^
17:23<MrBrrr>lol ;)
17:24<Gonozal_VIII>hmm 0 days
17:24<Gonozal_VIII>didn't notice that before
17:25<MrBrrr>Also, why aren't there any Forests being generated in the "sub-arctic"?
17:25<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm map too flat?
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17:25<hylje>MrBrrr: they require high hills
17:26<MrBrrr>True.
17:26<MrBrrr>But I use Mountainous setting.
17:26<MrBrrr>And no matter how many time I re-generate said map, it won't generate any forest.
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17:26<MrBrrr>Nevermind.
17:27<MrBrrr>That was in some trunk revision.
17:27<MrBrrr>Seems to work in beta.
17:27<Gonozal_VIII>with ecs vectors?
17:27<MrBrrr>Nevermind about my Forest comment buddy.
17:27<Gonozal_VIII>ok...
17:28<MrBrrr>heh
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19:49<Sacro>!logs
19:49<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
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20:20<ln->egladil: was the right-click scroll bug even intel-specific?
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20:21<ln->the diff that fixed it doesn't seem endian-specific to my eyes...
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22:25<egladil>[24 02:20 CET] ln- egladil: was the right-click scroll bug even intel-specific? <=== nope, it was generic
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 24 00:00:32 2007