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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-24

---Logopened Sat Nov 24 00:00:32 2007
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03:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11504 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Fix [FS#1467]: removing docks/ship depots could result in non-canal water where canals should have been build.
03:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11505 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp): -Fix/Feature: make CTRL work on all road/rail construction options that 'work' with the 'Bulldozer' button instead of only a few.
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04:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11506 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#1471]: selling vehicles could cause the window of others to scroll to that location.
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04:21<SmatZ>hello
04:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11507 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt viewport.cpp): -Fix [FS#1463]: signs totally illegible when transparant signs is turned on and zoomed out more than one level.
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04:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: egladil * r11508 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (5 files): -Cleanup: Removed unused headers from the cocoa video driver.
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05:05<Gonozal_VIII>idea: a webpage where artists can upload lots of single vehicles in form of sprites and all important data in an artistfriendly way, then users can browse these vehicles in a list with screenshots, artist information, etc, user selects which vehicles he/she whants and the server compiles and sends them as a grf --> unique grfsets for everybody
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05:09<@Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: go ahead and make it!
05:09<@Rubidium>especially the code to support all the action 2 callback stuff ;)
05:09<Gonozal_VIII>the what?^^
05:10<@Rubidium>you assumption that vehicles are 'only' some sprite replacements is flawed
05:10<Gonozal_VIII>i know that's why i wrote + all important data
05:11<@Rubidium>nfo != artist friendly (unless you mean nfo artist)
05:11<dihedral>hello Rubidium :-)
05:12<Gonozal_VIII>then there should be a compiler, that makes that artist friendly :-)
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05:12<@Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: go make one, like a gazillion people have suggested before.
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05:13<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm if there was a compiler, would the rest work?
05:14<Gonozal_VIII>potentially
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05:14<@Rubidium>let me rephrase that: if YOU don't do it, it's more than likely that nobody else will do it either, so when you do not do it this idea will never leave the idea stage like so many ideas to 'simplify' grf coding
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05:19<Gonozal_VIII>maybe that would require human compilers^^ a form where the artists submit sprites and what they want it to do and people who can write nfo look through that and code it
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05:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11509 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: off-by-one error in some sprite numbers; increase sprite number counter before loading the next sprite instead of after doing so.
05:20<@Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: major problem with NewGRFs this 'age' seems to be the people who need to make the nfo (code) for the NewGRFs have less time than the actual graphics artists
05:20<@Rubidium>do you're ending up with lots of sprites without coding
05:21<@Rubidium>or even works, no sprites with any coding because nobody could be bothered to code them
05:21<@Bjarni>I think it's more like nobody bothers.... there is not really a deadline for coding GRF files
05:22<@Rubidium>Bjarni: I think there is a deadline
05:23<@Rubidium>before TTDP 2.5 gets released ;)
05:23<@Bjarni>heh
05:24<@Bjarni>the only valid reason for rushing a release before the code is ready are financial ones. I sure hope that the patch has financial interests in quick releases
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05:24<gono_ping_timeout>aaand connection gone...
05:24<gono_ping_timeout>!logs
05:24<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
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05:25<gono_ping_timeout>maybe more people would learn to code that if there were a organised system where they can see lots of beautiful vehicles that need coding
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05:26<@Rubidium>maybe I sound pessimistic, but I don't see it happen
05:26<gono_ping_timeout>and for only one vehicle at a time, that wouldn't be a large project... it's easier to get people to make small projects than large ones
05:26<@Rubidium>as they was going to be something for the 32bpp sprites too and that does not even look remotely near finished
05:27<Ammler>it should be a new system not releated to patch, and converter between
05:27<@Rubidium>Ammler: go ahead and write it
05:27<Ammler>ok, when is deadline for it?
05:28<@Rubidium>three years ago?
05:28<Ammler>:)
05:28<@Rubidium>it's easy to do ~80% in *any* other language, but it's the ~20% that is the major problem.
05:29<@Rubidium>replacing sprites and properties is easy, the callbacks and the stuff that can be done there is a completely different challenge
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05:30<Ammler>but serious, grf coding is very complicated and I could imagine, the ottd code for the newgrf isn't easy either
05:30<@Bjarni>OTTD use the same GRF codec as the patch
05:31<@Rubidium>Ammler: ever thought what using another format means?
05:31<gono_ping_timeout>that would be parallel to the old one of course then
05:31<gono_ping_timeout>:-)
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05:32<Ammler>it would need a converter for existing grfs and also manually work
05:32<@Rubidium>gono_ping_timeout: that's making it even more cumbersome
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05:32<@Rubidium>Ammler: and that converter needs to be updated continously to match the NewGRF specs.
05:32<@Rubidium>it furthermore needs to be in OpenTTD as otherwise you cannot run all NewGRFs that you could before.
05:33<@Rubidium>you need to make the functionality of the new format a superset of NewGRF's functionality
05:33<@Rubidium>you need to completely write the new format's code from scratch
05:33<@Rubidium>you need to write documentation for the new format (even the NewGRF documentation is not finshed and it is already a lot)
05:34<Gonozal_VIII>in c++ :-)
05:34<@Rubidium>you need to test whether everything works
05:35<@Rubidium>you need to convince people to drop TTDP support
05:35<skidd13>I wrote somestuff in BF42 RFA/CON language mainly fixes for DC that language would be nice
05:35<dihedral>hey Bjarni ;-)
05:35<@Bjarni>hi dihedral
05:35<dihedral>anything i could realisticly be of help with?
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05:36<@Rubidium>I think you need at least 2-5 full manyear to complete the project, based on the amount of work in the NewGRF implementation and the time used to make the documenation.
05:38<@Bjarni>dihedral: yeah... go to the development forum and figure out if the C++ tutorials are usable... in other words if you can code after doing them, then they work
05:38<@Bjarni>;)
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05:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11510 /trunk/src/ (34 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: merge the IS_*INSIDE* functions and rename them fitting to the naming style
05:39<dihedral>if you are serious about that i will
05:42<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think you can learn any programming language just by reading some tutorial
05:43<dihedral>that is not the point
05:43<dihedral>point would be - does it makes sense what was written
05:44<SmatZ>!logs
05:44<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
05:44<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> i don't think you can learn any programming language just by reading some tutorial <-- agreed but it could be a good start for learning a new language
05:45<Gonozal_VIII>the quiz thing is a nice idea there
05:45<@Bjarni>I didn't look closely at that tutorial
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05:46<@Bjarni>but it would be nice if we can forward all wouldbe patches to that tutorial instead of answering all sorts of n00b questions
05:46[~]dihedral goes and reads it then
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05:48<Gonozal_VIII>then the most important thing imho (besides it being complete and correct) is the search function
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05:49<Gonozal_VIII>which doesn't seem to contain anything :S
05:51<Gonozal_VIII>seems to be wip
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06:15<Gonozal_VIII>wow, there just was a ship tunnel on tv... i didn't think they would exist in rl
06:16<@Bjarni>screenshot?
06:16<Gonozal_VIII>erm.. my tv doesn't make screenshots
06:16<@Bjarni>or do you lack a tuner in your computer?
06:17[~]Bjarni has no problems making screenshots from TV channels
06:17<dihedral>lol
06:17<Gonozal_VIII>i have a tv card for my laptop but i only use that when i'm at my other "home" at university, here i have a big tv :D
06:19<@Bjarni>my "real" TV died so I have only one option for TV watching
06:19<dihedral>i dont have a tv
06:19<dihedral>nor a tv card
06:19<@Bjarni>which happens to be way better than the TV
06:19<Gonozal_VIII>no tv at all? :O
06:19<@Bjarni>dihedral: then how do you watch the Simpsons?
06:20<dihedral>i cannot
06:20<dihedral>and even if i could it'd be in german
06:20<dihedral>and that just sucks
06:20<@Bjarni>good point
06:20<Gonozal_VIII>isn't that one of the basics needed for survival?
06:20<dihedral>like i said - it's all in german
06:20<@Bjarni>actually I can't watch the Simpsons either
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06:21<dihedral>i hate watching movies in german i hate watching simpsons in german...
06:21<dihedral>...
06:21<Gonozal_VIII>ok, german synchro sucks, that's a valid point...
06:21<dihedral>i just buy a bunch of dvd's instead :-D
06:21<Gonozal_VIII>but no tv?
06:21<@Bjarni>for some reason none of the channels I have access to wants to show Simpsons
06:21<dihedral>i was thinking to maybe go for digital cable tv
06:22<dihedral>then i'd get a bunch of us and uk channels
06:22<@Bjarni><dihedral> i just buy a bunch of dvd's instead :-D <-- then how do you keep up to date with politics and stuff?
06:22<Gonozal_VIII>politics dvd^^
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06:22<dihedral>oh - news is broadcasted over the internet
06:22<dihedral>and then i must add, uk has no good news thingy at all
06:23<dihedral>germany at least manages to squish the world into 15 mins :-P
06:24<Gonozal_VIII>n24 has some nice documentations :-)
06:24<Gonozal_VIII>and "kabel 1"...
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06:25<Gonozal_VIII>things about big machines and such...
06:25<dihedral>i love Mc Guyver
06:25<dihedral>:-P
06:25<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
06:25<Gonozal_VIII>i watched that as a kid
06:25<@Bjarni>I love machinery
06:25<@Bjarni>well
06:26<@Bjarni>that depends
06:26<@Bjarni>there are some machinery that I don't care for
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06:26<dihedral>:-P lol
06:26<Gonozal_VIII>they have docus about all kinds of big stuff
06:27<@Bjarni>like steam engines?
06:27<Gonozal_VIII>yes that too
06:28<Gonozal_VIII>but mostly about modern machines
06:28<dihedral>:-P
06:28<dihedral>disel engines
06:28<@Bjarni>*diesel
06:28<Gonozal_VIII>there was one about a rail vehicle that replaces the rails while driving over them
06:29<@Bjarni>we use those all the time
06:29<@Bjarni>in fact there is one here right now
06:29<dihedral>http://www.rhettsmith.com/blog/archives/images/napdyn%5B1%5D-thumb.jpg
06:29<@Bjarni>well... here as in less than 10 km away
06:29<@Bjarni>and it's working right now
06:30<@Bjarni>some track maintenance rolling stock are rather cool
06:30<Gonozal_VIII>that digs out the whole track bed deep down and replaces everything?
06:30<@Bjarni>it replaces the tracks and the sleepers
06:31<@Bjarni>and it's really long by itself because it's on the tracks in both ends and it removes and places the new tracks between the bogies
06:32<Gonozal_VIII>that's so cool :D
06:32<Gonozal_VIII>never saw anything like that in rl...
06:33<Gonozal_VIII>they do everything by hand here
06:34<@Bjarni>when you have tried doing it by hand then you really like the machinery
06:34<@Bjarni>starting with the machine to fasten the bolts on the sleepers to put on the tracks
06:35<@Bjarni>that is kind of hard to do by hand
06:35<@Bjarni>takes strength and time
06:35<Gonozal_VIII>are they concrete or wooden?
06:35[~]Bjarni has tried doing that to replace rotten sleepers
06:36<@Bjarni>wood. The automatic replacement uses concrete sleepers
06:36<Gonozal_VIII>they replace all the completely fine wooden ones with concrete... i don't know why
06:36<@Bjarni>concrete sleepers are cheaper, lasts longer and are more environmental friendly
06:37<@Bjarni>they fill the wood with a whole lot of chemical to prevent them from rotting
06:37<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think that they last longer... the wood has so much chemicals in it that it lasts practically forever
06:37<@Bjarni>so today they are only used for non-standard sleepers like in switches
06:38<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think that they last longer... the wood has so much chemicals in it that it lasts practically forever <-- well.. everything is relative... they last 40 years
06:38<@Bjarni>correctly made concrete sleepers lasts 50 years
06:38<Gonozal_VIII>they often break in the middle
06:38<Hendikins>Bjarni: My customers love me... and there was a cheer this evening when I read out the election scorecard :)
06:38<@Bjarni>hehe
06:38<@Bjarni>I hear that you threw away your government
06:39<Hendikins>We did! Good riddance!
06:39<Gonozal_VIII>wherewhenwhat :S
06:39<Hendikins>The station staff cheered, the passengers were grinning from ear to ear :)
06:39<Hendikins>Gonozal_VIII: Australia has a new Prime Minister
06:39<Gonozal_VIII>ah...
06:40<@Bjarni>I don't know much about Australian politics but I know that now you are more likely to withdraw troops and give more room for terrorists like taliban
06:40<Hendikins>Not exactly.
06:40<@Bjarni>then the news here told it wrong (which isn't the first time)
06:41<Hendikins>The existing government wanted to screw over workers in favour of big business. The bloke who won... well, he won simply because he wasn't the existing PM.
06:41<@Bjarni>here we reelected the government last week
06:41<Hendikins>s/wanted to/had already started
06:41<Gonozal_VIII>troops cause terrorism, they don't prevent it...
06:42<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: that's not really true... if they are removed then people like taliban takes over and they can generate even more money to attack the west since they see us as the eternal enemy
06:43<@Bjarni>they did so even before we showed up at their location
06:43<Gonozal_VIII>when?
06:43<Hendikins>Bjarni: In any case, how is work? :P
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06:44<@Bjarni>Iraq founded suicide bombers in Israel (hence a reason why Israel wanted to get rid of Iraq)
06:45<@Bjarni>I don't say that I side with Israel though but suicide bombers are just plain wrong nomatter the reason
06:45<Gonozal_VIII>and they did that because israel is so peaceful?
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06:45<@Bjarni>no
06:46<Gonozal_VIII>ok, suicide bombing is wrong, nobody will argue about that... but how desperate do you have to be to do that?
06:46<@Bjarni>but there is one story about military entering the countries in question. There is another one about leaving
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06:46<Hendikins>Bjarni: We had a swing of just under 6% to the new government.
06:46<@Bjarni>the fact is that the troops are present right now
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06:46<@Bjarni>if we leave it will not magically return to the state it was in before we came and it will not just stop the terrorists and make them idle
06:46<@Bjarni>they will try to take power
06:47<@Bjarni>so by leaving we will create countries there the population is controlled by a government who kills whoever they don't like
06:47<Hendikins>http://vtr.aec.gov.au/Default.htm
06:48<@Bjarni>a government that is even worse than the Saddam one we wanted to get rid of
06:48<Gonozal_VIII>but as long as there are foreign forces there, they will gain followers that want to get rid of them
06:49<Gonozal_VIII>there has to be some way
06:50<@Bjarni>diplomacy only works when it's accepted by both sides and the world can't tell taliban how to behave
06:50<@Bjarni>remember that even the Muslim countries like Pakistan are fighting taliban
06:51<ln->Bjarni: how does quartz feel?
06:51<@Bjarni>the local population celebrates whenever taliban withdraw from their area
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06:51<@Bjarni>ln-: slower, but at least it works now
06:52<Gonozal_VIII>they will loose followers and support when there are no foreign troops to fight against
06:52<@Bjarni>if we just withdraw then the result will be that they will take control and kill whoever they don't like for reasons like sending a girl to school, learning a foreign language and stuff like that
06:53<Vikthor>(12:48:32) Gonozal_VIII: but as long as there are foreign forces there, they will gain followers that want to get rid of them -- Sure that is because how the foreign forces behave
06:53<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> they will loose followers and support when there are no foreign troops to fight against <-- so Hitler lost support when Germany didn't have any foreign troops?
06:54<@Bjarni>besides they don't need support... they have the weapons. They can rule and kill without support from the population
06:54<@Bjarni>our troops are instructed on how to deal with taliban without hurting the local population and it actually works
06:55<Vikthor>The only solution is unfortunately to send there more foreign forces
06:55<@Bjarni>yeah... it's not an ideal solution but we have to do so
06:56<@Bjarni>imagine WW2 if every single country decided not to care for the war unless their own land was attacked
06:56<@Bjarni>and then even in that case they might not do anything seriously about it
06:56<Vikthor>Bjarni: Thats exactly what USA and USSR did :)
06:56<@Bjarni>USA wouldn't have done anything in Europe
06:57<@Bjarni> <Vikthor> Bjarni: Thats exactly what USA and USSR did :) <-- yeah... the war didn't stop until they changed politics
06:57<@Bjarni>USA was never attacked from Europe
06:58<@Bjarni>USSR should have just pushed Germany out of their own land, but not made a counter attack if they should follow the ideas of withdrawal from Afghanistan that people talk about today
06:59<@Bjarni>the idea of not having troops in other countries are an ideal one but sadly it's not working :s
06:59<@Bjarni>it's just not how the world works
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07:01<Vikthor>(12:57:17) Bjarni: USA was never attacked from Europe -- Germany declared war on USA not the other way around
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07:02<@Bjarni>are you completely sure... what happened just before they did?
07:03<@Bjarni>is it like Pearl Harbour where the history books claims it to be an attack where in reality it was a counter attack due to USA financially attacking Japan?
07:03<Gonozal_VIII>they supplied gb with lots of weapons
07:04<Eddi|zuHause3>technically, there was a strong lobby for germany in the USA, and they did not actively enter the war until they got attacked by japan
07:04<@Bjarni>USA declared that all oil producing countries should boycott Japan. Japan objected but nobody cared so Japan used their navy (the biggest in the Pacific) to gain control of the oil wells in Indonesia and to protect their oil transports they had to defeat the strongholds that could attack them
07:04<Vikthor>It was so that USA declared war on Japan and after that Germany declared war on USA
07:04<@Bjarni>Pearl Harbour was one of them
07:05<@Bjarni>Bangkok was another one
07:05<@Bjarni>they attacked even more strongholds but I can't remember them all
07:05<Eddi|zuHause3>and note that this was already half way through the war
07:07<@Bjarni>USA went into WW1 when Germany sank one of their ships but Germany did so because British ships used US flags to hide themselves and then fire on German ships at short range where the British ships were better
07:07<@Bjarni>so in reality Britain forced Germany into a conflict with USA by doing so
07:08<@Bjarni>also at that time USA made a fortune by supplying Britain with all sorts of stuff
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07:15<chu_>Rubidium: ?
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07:18<dihedral>save passwords on server patch looks good :-)
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07:18<dihedral>good = nice idea
07:21<@Bjarni>the problem is that a password should be known to only the server and the client
07:21<@Bjarni>if we just add it to the savegame then it will be transmitted to new clients
07:22<Rotonen>and a diff-helman would be overkill
07:23<dihedral>that has been changed Bjarni
07:23<dihedral>aparently it saves to another file
07:23<Ammller>a special passwd file on the server with company id and pw as md5?
07:23<dihedral>but i might be wrong there
07:23<dihedral>password as md5 would mean that passwords are saved generally as md5
07:24<Rotonen>who's specifically in charge of multiplayer code?
07:24<Rotonen>or is there any hierarchy on this project?
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07:25<Ammller>Rotonen: why do you need to know that?
07:26<Rotonen>i'd like to consult the person
07:26<Rotonen>before posting something into your task tracker
07:27<Rotonen>currently the client does not handle the end of game well in a multiplayer game
07:27<Ammller>Rotonen: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Developers
07:28<Rotonen>did not really clarify
07:28<dihedral>what does it not handle well?
07:28<Rotonen>well it just kicks you out of the game and tells the connection was lost?
07:28<Rotonen>and even that information times out
07:29<Gonozal_VIII>yes, if the server shuts down you just get back to the start screen without any information
07:29<dihedral>for me when the game is restarted by reaching restart_game_year or issueing newgame, i reconnect
07:30<Rotonen>yes, but i'd like to see the end game results (as would the majority of players playing on my server and giving feedback)
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07:30<Gonozal_VIII>ah that 2051 stuff
07:30<Rotonen>yes
07:30<dihedral>then you need to set end_year earlier than restart_game_year
07:30<Rotonen>the easiest way would be to export the end results
07:31<dihedral>?
07:31<dihedral>use a save game?
07:31<Rotonen>in some parseable form (xml anyone?) so one could dynamically form result web pages
07:31<dihedral>...
07:31<Rotonen>well yes, was afraid i was going to have to code that myself as an external app
07:31<dihedral>if you want results of running games there are tools for that :-P
07:32<Rotonen>but what i'm here asking for is some nicer endgame handling for the client
07:32<Gonozal_VIII>that sounds somewhat nice, not only for multiplayer...
07:32<Rotonen>Gonozal_VIII: not really the headache of this project, though
07:32<Rotonen>if the client were to stay even paused upon game reset in the endgame so a player could see the results, that would be really nice
07:33<Rotonen>though it would require some sort of an endgame signal for it
07:33<dihedral>i.e. freeze the game
07:34<dihedral>actually - Bjarni i had something funny when my powerbook suspended due to low battery
07:34<dihedral>i 'woke' it up again this morning and i had a frozen game
07:34<dihedral>frozen in the sense of me being able to scroll everything
07:34<dihedral>just not 'unpause' etc.
07:35<dihedral>and at some point it then went back to the main menu (i.e. after 10 mins or so :-P)
07:35<@Bjarni>heh
07:35<dihedral>i thought that was pretty neat actually
07:35<dihedral>:-P
07:35<Rotonen>a broken statmachine perhaps?
07:36<dihedral>had the minimap open, so i could scroll that and and scoll the normal map too
07:36<Gonozal_VIII>game ends... endscreen until you do something, then the map is there in pause and you are able to save the game and it saves game statistics in a file in the game dir
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07:37<dihedral>write it :-)
07:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11511 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Revert parts of r11505: forgot that CTRL might be used for other features, like adjacent stations or signals.
07:37<dihedral>:-P
07:37<Rotonen>helpful and supportive, aren't we :P
07:37<chu_>Rubidium: thx :-)
07:38<Gonozal_VIII>the map stays there part shouldn't be that hard, sometimes it already does that
07:38<chu_>what does adjacent stations mean?
07:38<Gonozal_VIII>if i loose my internet connection while playing on a server, the game freezes but stays there
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07:39<Gonozal_VIII>different stations that touch each other
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07:39<Gonozal_VIII>or something like that^^
07:40<dihedral>and you dont suppose a bunch of people will complain that their game frezzes because they lost connection?
07:41<Gonozal_VIII>it is already that way and i didn't see anybody complaining
07:42<dihedral>the game does not 'freeze' when you lose your connection
07:43<Gonozal_VIII>it does?
07:43<Gonozal_VIII>i'll try again now...
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07:48<Gonozal_VIII>so.. a friend of mine will host now, i'll connect to his server, reset my router and see wat happens
07:49<Gonozal_VIII>+h
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07:56<dihedral>why so complicated?
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08:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11512 /trunk/src/ (road_gui.cpp subsidy_gui.cpp): -Change: make the subsidy window able to resize to something smaller than 640x127 (especially the 640 part) when the screen is really too small.
08:01<Gonozal_VIII>:S i broke irc
08:01<dihedral>that is your own silly fault :-P
08:01<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't know why
08:01<Gonozal_VIII>and how
08:02<dihedral>you reset your router?
08:02<Gonozal_VIII>only the connection
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08:02<Gonozal_VIII>i don't see the userlist or the topic or anything here...
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08:02<Gonozal_VIII>did i join multiple times?
08:03<Gonozal_VIII>anyways, what i wanted to test worked
08:03<Gonozal_VIII>the game freezes
08:03<dihedral>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/GRF_Table
08:03<dihedral>sorry - wrong channel
08:04<@Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: does it completely freeze, or does it just not continue with the map?
08:04<Gonozal_VIII>i can scroll around but the time is stuck
08:04<dihedral>when i lose my connection i am back in the main menu
08:04<@Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: exactly as it should be
08:04<Gonozal_VIII>it is not set to pause but nothing moves
08:05<@Rubidium>well... the server did not tell to go to the next frame.
08:05<@Rubidium>the server *always* tells the clients when it can go to the next frame.
08:05<@Rubidium>this to synchronise all clients.
08:06<Gonozal_VIII>i can save and load and it works :-)
08:06<Gonozal_VIII>that's how every multiplayer game should end imho
08:06<@Rubidium>it will 'die' after the connection has been determined to be lost
08:06<@Rubidium>which is configurable by the way
08:07<@Rubidium>you just need to check what specific setting of your OS you need to set
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08:07<Gonozal_VIII>it only happens if my internet connection is lost
08:08<Gonozal_VIII>which happens every 8h because my provider thinks that's cool or something...
08:10<Gonozal_VIII>and i'll try to get my irc back to working normal now...
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08:16<Gonozal_VIII>yay
08:17<Gonozal_VIII>!logs
08:17<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
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08:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11513 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: enumerize some depot GUI actions
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08:55<_fjb_>Moin
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09:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11514 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Change: implement the automatic multiplier handler for NewGRF industries.
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11:48[~]SpComb sighs at MyOTTD
11:49[~]dihedral pats SpComb on the back
11:49<dihedral>whats up?
11:49<SpComb>0.6.0-beta1 has a different file structure, settings.cpp has changed, the currently used web framework smells
11:50<dihedral>...
11:50<dihedral>looks like you have some work to do :-P
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11:51<SpComb>I need a plan, lots of time and preferrably someone to help
11:51<SpComb>it's starting to get complicated
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11:52<SpComb>still need to figure out how feasible it would be to patch the OpenTTD source code to add a more suitable control interface for dedicated servers
11:53<SpComb>are console messages/debug messages localized?
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11:53<SpComb>I'm not sure if I want to update openttd.py to support the new settings.cpp, I'd rather try my hand at extracting that info out of OpenTTD at runtime via said control interface
11:55<dihedral>?
11:55<dihedral>i am going to go home now...
11:55<dihedral>cu in a bit
11:56<SpComb>my plan for the future is to replace the console/udp based MyOTTD<->OpenTTD interaction with some kind of specialized inter-process API in OpenTTD
11:57<SpComb>so instead of printing out some english-language string whenever a player joins the server, OpenTTD would instead send out some kind of binary opcode message with the ip address and such
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13:07<dihedral>hello
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13:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11515 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: cleanup of NetworkStartServerWindow in network_gui.cpp
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13:18[~]SpComb breaks OpenTTD in interesting ways
13:19<hylje>new and interesting*
13:23<SpComb>woo, it compiled
13:28[~]SpComb ponders upon the magic that is VARDEF
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13:38<ln->het ongewoon sterke tetryonveld vormt een gevaar voor de navigatie.
13:39<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, it does ;)
13:42<ln->yes, better keep that in mind.
13:47<SpComb>bleh, I was editing the console.cpp from trunk, and the openttd.h/etc from 0.6.1-beta1
13:47<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, if i'm ever going to navigate through a tetryonfield, that information could come in handy ;)
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14:02<SpComb>hmm, debug() does both fprintf(stderr, ...) and IConsoleDebug
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14:14<SpComb>hmm... the revision on my server is r11515M, I guess it adds in an M because I've modified it?
14:15<SpComb>the modifications have zero relevance to the client though, and I can't build the windows client myself... how can I not have it include the M in that string?
14:17<Sacro>--version ;
14:17<Sacro>;)
14:17<Sacro>or
14:17<Sacro>REV=foobar make
14:18<Eddi|zuHause3>SpComb: you can ./configure a version string override
14:18<Eddi|zuHause3>although you really should only do that if you know what you are doing
14:19<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: or don't care
14:20[~]SpComb does indeed not care
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14:40<Sacro>foo = 3/*bar; /* division by pointer or comment start? */
14:41<Gonozal_VIII>javadoc
14:42<Gonozal_VIII>hmm
14:42<Gonozal_VIII>sorry, just woke up
14:44<Gonozal_VIII>(eyes half closed and such)
14:46<Gonozal_VIII>i would guess comment and then it starts to complain about missing ;
14:46<Eddi|zuHause3>not if the next statement is an empty statement ;)
14:47<Eddi|zuHause3>it gets funnier, if the next statement is *bar=foo ;)
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14:50<Gonozal_VIII>seems to be a weakness of the language... nice, i don't evern know most of it and now i know how to break it, yay
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14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, there are quite some ambiguousities with *
14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>like what is 3**bar
14:53<Sacro>foo * bar
14:54<Sacro>** ?
14:54<Sacro>pow!
14:54<Eddi|zuHause3>it could also mean 3 * (*bar)
14:54<Gonozal_VIII>why is it not ^ or something for power?
14:55<Eddi|zuHause3>^ is XOR
14:55<Gonozal_VIII>ah
14:55<hylje>well
14:55<Sacro>foo += ** bar
14:55<Sacro>><
14:55<Sacro>hmm
14:55<hylje>ambiguousness with ^ instead of * and **?
14:56<Eddi|zuHause3>!calc 2^1
14:57<Eddi|zuHause3>@calc 2^1
14:57<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
14:57<Gonozal_VIII>not a valid number :S
14:58<SmatZ>can I stop running server (openttd -D -f) in a different way than with kill?
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15:08<Gonozal_VIII>you could disconnect from the internet, turn off the server, blow up the server, cut the power cord, blow up your local power plant, detonate a nuclear bomb in the stratosphere and let the emp shut it off and lots of more options :-)
15:11<SmatZ>thanks, I will do it with the nuclear bomb :-P
15:16<Sacro>fire!
15:16<Sacro>nah
15:16<Sacro>the only safe way is to nuke it from orbit
15:16<SmatZ>thanks, I see there is no solution :-P
15:19<Sacro>not using kill?
15:19<Sacro>killall?
15:20<Sacro>fo
15:22<SmatZ>fo ?
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15:22<welterde>hi
15:22<Gonozal_VIII>hi
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15:23<|fjb|>Hi
15:23<SmatZ>hi
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15:29<Sacro>SmatZ: fo shizzle
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15:40<SpComb>hmm... my api thing kind of works now
15:40<SpComb>but, of course, it's buggy and doesn't work
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15:45<ln->does the middle mouse button have any functionality?
15:45<Sacro>in what?
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15:46<ln->in OpenTTD, for example.
15:46<ln->and yes, in particular in OpenTTD.
15:46<ln->my question could even be understood as to limit exclusively on OpenTTD.
15:47<Maedhros>not as far as i know
15:47<Gonozal_VIII>didn't notice anything about middle mouse button in openttd
15:47<Maedhros>but then i don't think the right mouse button does anything either
15:48<Gonozal_VIII>right is for scrolling
15:48<Maedhros>heh, oops
15:48<ln->yeah, and at least I even use it for scrolling.
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15:49<Gonozal_VIII>i always use that, never the cursor keys
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15:50<Gonozal_VIII>in combination with mousewheel zoom out, right mousebutton scroll, mousewheel zoom in, you can navigate fast over the map :-)
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15:56<ln->i just thought the middle button could be assigned some purpose, if it happens to exist.
15:56<gono_ping_timeout>like?
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15:59<gono_ping_timeout>to center the map there or something?
15:59<ln->dunno, a shortcut for the questionmark tool for example.
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16:00<ln->or bring up the terrain toolbar, or...
16:03<gono_ping_timeout>configurable then...
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16:03<ln->too much configurability is bad
16:03<gono_ping_timeout>hmm
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16:04<Sacro>autorail?
16:04<gono_ping_timeout>hidden configuability can't hurt.. with a default action and if you want something else, add a line in the config
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16:17<SpComb>yay, now I get e.g. JOIN/CHAT/LEAVE in pure binary goodness
16:18<gono_ping_timeout>?
16:18<SpComb>http://pb.paivola.fi/366 <-- printed out nicely
16:19<gono_ping_timeout>hai?^^
16:19<SpComb>I've replaced console.cpp with my own api.cpp
16:20<Rotonen>yes, much more efficient than the previous approach
16:20<SpComb>http://pb.paivola.fi/367 <-- my testing script
16:21<gono_ping_timeout>oh noes a while true
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16:27<SpComb>hmm.... reading arbitrary binary data from stdin isn't that simple, it seems
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16:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11516 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: cleanup of NetworkGameWindow in network_gui.cpp
16:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11517 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: better cleanup of NetworkStartServerWindow in network_gui.cpp
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16:53<ln->i found a bug!
16:54<@Rubidium>splut it
16:54<SmatZ>really?
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16:56<@Rubidium>well, not if it's on the middle of your expensive monitor/hardware, but when it's on the door or so, just splut it ;)
16:58<ln->i have a fix for the consequence but not the cause.
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause3>doctors do that all the time
17:11<Rotonen>also medical research facilities prefer to do that
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17:35<|fjb|>Hi
17:36|-||fjb| changed nick to fjb
17:36<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it's not like you could recompile a human with debug symbols and then single-step through ;)
17:37<fjb>:-)
17:37<fjb>!logs
17:37<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
17:37<Sacro>ahh so *thats* why he only has one leg
17:37<Gonozal_VIII>not yet :-)
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17:55<SpComb>hmm... htonl, but for 64-bit ints
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18:31<ln->egladil: ping
18:31<egladil>pong
18:32<ln->try to scroll the map quickly with right-mouse down, release button only after the cursor is outside OTTD window.
18:33<ln->then move the cursor back on the window, and the game will think you still have right mouse down.
18:34<Gonozal_VIII>erm... the cursor doesn't move when you keep the right button down
18:34<ln->the real question is why can the cursor exit the window when right is down, and why doesn't it happen with ctrl+left down.
18:34<ln->Gonozal_VIII: what kind of a Mac do you have?
18:35<egladil>i can't test that right now since i don't have a two-button mouse
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>that kint that has nothing to do with mac
18:35<ln->that kint that?
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>the kind that?
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>no mac :P
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18:36<Gonozal_VIII>but you didn't say anyhing about mac
18:36<ln->Gonozal_VIII: i did, i said "egladil: ".
18:37<egladil>heh
18:37<Gonozal_VIII>that was the ping :-)
18:37<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
18:37<egladil>that implied mac
18:38<Gonozal_VIII>macs have ctrl?
18:38<ln->egladil: btw, was there something intel-specific about this fix: http://hg.openttd.org:8000/svn/trunk.hg/rev/5c94d02482a4
18:39<ln->Gonozal_VIII: they are in ctrl of the world.
18:39<Gonozal_VIII>:P
18:39<Gonozal_VIII>not my world!
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18:41<ln->Gonozal_VIII: and yes, sure macs have ctrl, alt, command and space.
18:42<Gonozal_VIII>would be hard to type without space...
18:42<egladil>ln-: no, that fix was for both intel and ppc
18:44<ln->egladil: ok, thought so... so was bjarni incorrectly reporting it as being intel-specific?
18:44<Eddi|zuHause3><Gonozal_VIII> would be hard to type without space... <- that's a big problem in morse code, it does not contain the letter "space", even though it is the most common letter in a text
18:45<egladil>whoever reported it as intel-only was indeed incorrect, since when checking it out i got it on ppc too
18:45<ln->"Comment by Bjarni (Bjarni) - Friday, 23 November 2007, 07:51AM
18:46<ln->r11498 breaks right click scrolling on intel macs [...]"
18:46<SpComb>http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/openttd/api_r11515.patch
18:46<SpComb>in case anyone is interested in what I'm doing, I'm not trying to submit it for inclusion in trunk or anything :P
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18:47<SpComb>although it's currently written in such a way that it doesn't break anything except win32 if you turn it on
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18:49<egladil>ln-: well, he never said it was _only_ on intel macs ;)
18:50<ln->true
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18:52<ln->Gonozal_VIII: btw, mac keyboards have function keys F1..F16, the new ones even up to F19.
18:53<Gonozal_VIII>why do you need that?
18:54<ln->mac programs very rarely use function keys at all, instead many of them have operating system level functionality such as adjusting screen brightness, volume, or so.
18:55<egladil>and you can bind exposé and such to them :)
18:55<Eddi|zuHause3>PCs have "multimedia keys" instead
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>my laptop has a fn key that works in combination with f1-f8
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>laptops had that for ages...
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>but those are usually controlled by the BIOS instead
18:57<egladil>macs don't have BIOS ;)
18:57<ln->what's this key above 7 on the numpad?
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>the Num key?
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>to switch between numbers or arrows?
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>activates the numpad
18:57<ln->the mac keyboard
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>ah
18:58<egladil>no idea, i have an ibook so not the same layout
18:59<egladil>above my numpad seven (which happens to coincide with the ordinary seven) there is f6/numlock
18:59<ln->ah, ok. i have an ibook too, but last summer i bought a separate mac keyboard so i can use my ibook with an external monitor, mouse and keyboard now.
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>numpad in the middle of the letters? that sucks...
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>but i guess seperate doesn't work with less then 17"...
19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>laptop keyboards used that trick to save space
19:01<egladil>never use the numpad on laptops anyway
19:02<ln->do you have the latest generation iBook G4?
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19:05<egladil>i have the 2004 model
19:06<ln->no two-finger scrolling then, pity.
19:07<Gonozal_VIII>i know what two-finger scrolling is :D
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19:07<ln->if you were thinking something perverted, that's you own problem.
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19:08<Sacro>ln-: you know... i was
19:15<ln->bug almost fixed
19:18<SmatZ>ln-: what bug were you talking about?
19:19<ln->right scroll
19:19<SmatZ>[00:32:33] <ln-> try to scroll the map quickly with right-mouse down, release button only after the cursor is outside OTTD window.
19:19<SmatZ>ah
19:20<SmatZ>when I go out of the OTTD window while holding button and then return back, my cursor disappears...
19:21<ln->bug fixed
19:25<ln->egladil: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/cocoa-keep-cursor-in-window-when-right-down.diff
19:32<Zuu>SmatZ: That one is quite old, and was SDL related on linux if I'm not wrong.
19:36<Zuu>But if I'm not wrong that is not a real issue with relative input devices?
19:37<Zuu>As the cursor position don't move when you scroll.
19:37<Eddi|zuHause3>something was funny recently, when you scroll, and alt+tab out of the window, and then go back, you scroll without holding the mouse button
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19:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11518 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: enforce (by assert) unused parameters of widgets to be zero. Better readability of DrawWindowWidgets(), too
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19:44<ln->let's all read the interesting paper by Tron: http://www.info.uni-karlsruhe.de/papers/sa_mallon.pdf
19:45<SmatZ>Zuu: I don't know
19:45<Zuu>Not easy to know everyting when so MUCH is happening in the ottd world :)
19:47<SmatZ>:)
19:48<Zuu>Beeing the one who submitted that bug it is quite easy to remember it.. :p
19:48<Zuu>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/501
19:49<ln->Beeing = attacking someone with an army of bees?
19:49<SmatZ>:-D
19:49<Sacro>hehehe
19:49<Zuu>being, better?
19:49<SmatZ>no wonder you remember it :)
19:49<Sacro>my chinese housemate thought that walking the dog == dogging
19:49<Sacro>XD
19:50<@Belugas>ln-, what is it about? i can't read german, but it sound interesting to me
19:50<SmatZ>:-D
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19:53<Zuu>Sacro: As always it is those who are less familar with a langage that creates new facinating combinations. :p
19:53<Sacro>Zuu: well, yes
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19:53<Sacro>she was most embarresed when i told her what dogging is
19:54<Gonozal_VIII><-- too stupid to understand it but it seems to be an algorithm that is trying to avoid wrong guesses when you pipeline stuff through the cpu
19:54<ln->Belugas: something like "If conversion from SSAs".
19:55<Eddi|zuHause3>he wants to reduce the conditional branches when converting SSA into code
19:56<Eddi|zuHause3>because the less branches you have, the less the branch prediction can fail
19:56<Eddi|zuHause3>and taking wrong branch always is a loss of pipeline
19:57<ln->has he written that much text just for fun, or is "Studienarbeit" something like a bachelor's thesis?
19:58<Gonozal_VIII>master :-)
19:58<Eddi|zuHause3>it is definitely some requirement for his studies, but i don't think he is studying for bachelor/master
19:58<@Belugas>i think the latter will be more exact
19:59<Eddi|zuHause3>more probably he is studying for "diplom", where this thing would be a prerequisite for starting his diploma-thesis
19:59<Eddi|zuHause3>"Diplom" would be loosely comparable to "Master"
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>they want to start bachelor/master system here in the next years
20:00<ln->this sounds funny: "Prof. em. Dr. Dr. h.c. Gerhard Goos"
20:01<Gonozal_VIII>here = my university
20:01<Eddi|zuHause3>they started last year here, i think
20:02<Eddi|zuHause3>but tron already studies a tiny bit longer than that ;)
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20:03<Zuu>soon I have to choose if I want to get the old exam that is also called Master or if I want to get the bolonga-master or there was a third possibility I don't remember...
20:03<Eddi|zuHause3>a paper like this is usually directly followed by the diploma-thesis, which is another 6 month to finish studying
20:04<Eddi|zuHause3>here, everyone would recommend you to study after the old scheme, if you have the choice
20:04[~]Sacro scratches
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20:05<Eddi|zuHause3>it is even questionable if the newly introduced bachelor even fulfils the bologna criteries
20:05<Zuu>okay. I mostly have heard from people that they want to go the old way to get out a half year earlier (after 4.5 instead of 5 years) so that they can start to work earlier.
20:05<@Belugas>i know he is studying on computer sciences (obviously), that he has achieved quite a degree so far, but i do know know the exact level he reached
20:05<ln->the first time i see Dr. twice in front of someone's name
20:05<@Belugas>thanks Eddi|zuHause3
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20:06<Gonozal_VIII>they are very strict with titles here... and some people like to collect them all^^
20:06<Eddi|zuHause3>ln-: that is very common in germany, but really uncommon in english speaking areas
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20:07<Eddi|zuHause3>like people have "Prof. Prof. Prof. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr."
20:07|-|Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:07<ln->would "diplom" be localized to english as something else than "master of science"?
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20:07<@Belugas>i miss him
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20:07<@Belugas>he was not alwasy easy to get along,but he's damn good and sometimes, even fun to talk to
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20:07<ln->laaaaaag
20:07<Gonozal_VIII>wow...
20:08|-|Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> unununium.oftc.net quits: Progman, @Rubidium, @Belugas, blathijs, svippery, eQualizer, ln-, Noldo, dfox_
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20:08<Gonozal_VIII>banana split
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20:09<Gonozal_VIII>everybody knows, that unununium is not stable!
20:09<Gonozal_VIII>-,
20:09<SmatZ>:-D
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20:10<ln->blah
20:10<ln->the last thing i said was:
20:10<ln->03:03 < ln-> would "diplom" be localized to english as something else than "master of science"?
20:10<Eddi|zuHause3>a couple of google results: "Prof. Prof. Prof. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. (wenn man den Buchumschlag glauben soll) Guido Knopp"
20:10<Sacro>diploma?
20:10<Eddi|zuHause3>"Herrn Prof. Prof. Prof. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. (kein Witz!) Theodor Berchem"
20:10<Eddi|zuHause3>"Prof. Prof. Prof. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. rer. nat. phil. med. vet. hc Dipl. Betriebswirt Dipl. Psych. Dipl. Ing. Adolf Samuel Rothschild"
20:11<Sacro>:o
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20:11<Sacro>you can't call a child Adolf
20:11<ln->Sacro: obviously mr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. is not a child.
20:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume he was born between 1933 and 1945
20:11<Zuu>My gosh, that's just wierd amount of titles... compared to the situation here where you say 'you' to almost anyone.
20:12<Gonozal_VIII>but they would be offended if you forget one of the dr.
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20:14<Gonozal_VIII>btw isn't samuel jewish?
20:14<ln->what have they done to gain (Prof.)³ (Dr.)¹¹ ?
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20:14<Eddi|zuHause3>well, those are extreme cases, but it is quite common to have "Dr. Dr." or "Prof. Dr. Dr."
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20:14<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, the name could be jewish
20:15<Eddi|zuHause3>but also jews were born in that period :p
20:15<Gonozal_VIII>but named adolf?^^
20:15<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i do neither know this person nor this person's parents nor this person's parents' reasoning behind the naming
20:17<Eddi|zuHause3>but if he was born in that period, he would be between 62 and 74 now
20:17<Gonozal_VIII>can't be much younger with that many titles
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20:18<Eddi|zuHause3>http://usaerklaert.wordpress.com/2007/04/04/buffy-staffel-8-und-die-vornamen-falle/ <- about names, "you" and mass-titles (german)
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20:19<ln->i live in a country where getting a doctoral degree requires at least a few years of post-graduate research.
20:19<ln->in practise.
20:20<Eddi|zuHause3>well, especially in medical studies, they have an accelerated doctor degree
20:20<Eddi|zuHause3>because people don't go to a doctor that is not a doctor
20:20<Eddi|zuHause3>so they make the doctor degree for the name plate
20:21<ln->great
20:21<ln->what's the degree below that?
20:21<ln->Lizenziat?
20:21<Eddi|zuHause3>"dipl. med." allows you to be medical practitioner
20:23<ln->"Lizenziat der Medizin" over here, as far as the term Lizenziat is translatable.
20:23<Eddi|zuHause3>"Diplom" is the usual finish of studying
20:24<Eddi|zuHause3>"Doktor" is typically a 2-4 year advanced study after that
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20:25<ln->"Magister" (i.e. master) is the usual finish here.
20:25<Eddi|zuHause3>that time depends mainly on how much teaching you have to do in that period as well
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20:26<ln->but in medicine and dentistry people do not (and cannot) graduate as masters, but instead they graduate directly to Lizenziat, which is somewhat higher degree.
20:31|-|Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
20:32<ln->welcome back
20:34<Sacro>http://www.freemagenta.nl/?page_id=121
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20:41<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.freemagenta.nl/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/claimed-magenta.jpg :D
20:46<Sacro>"To continue reading this article, subscribe to New Scientist. Get 4 issues of New Scientist magazine and instant access to all online content for only £2.95"
20:46<Sacro>GOD DAMNIT ><
20:53<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, the company with the big T has that kind of protective thinking...
20:55<Eddi|zuHause2>like they sued someone for using of the URL "e-online.de"
20:55<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.das-elko.de/e-online.htm
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21:05<dihedral>night ladies
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21:44<Greyscale>Time for bed. zzz
21:49<Gonozal_VIII>why sleep when you can stay up instead?
21:50<Gonozal_VIII>time for sleeping is when all that light starts to come in through the windows and hurts the eyes
21:51<@Belugas>nope
21:51<@Belugas>it's when your wife calls you to bed
21:51<@Belugas>who can resist the voice of sirens ?
21:51<@Belugas>not me
21:52<@Belugas>good night ;)
21:52<Gonozal_VIII>^^ night
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22:01<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm
22:02<Gonozal_VIII>i'm just testing the needed curve radius that trains need to prevent slowdown... but that seems to change
22:03<Gonozal_VIII>a train with 180 takes the same curve with 180 3times and then the 4th time it slows down to 160
22:03<Gonozal_VIII>how is that possible?
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 25 00:00:08 2007