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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-27

---Logopened Tue Nov 27 00:00:43 2007
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03:19<dihedral>anything one can do about offensive pm's in the tt-forums?
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03:28<DaleStan>dihedral: I don't recall that being explicitly mentioned in the rules. Talk to orudge; he may cause something to happen.
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03:29<dihedral>thanks DaleStan
03:32<dihedral>DaleStan: how about 1.(d) Flaming or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated and will lead to a warning.
03:33[~]dihedral will contact orudge, yes :-P
03:33<DaleStan>That looks like a pretty good one.
03:34<dihedral>though if you say that i asked for it with my last past, then i'll accept that too
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03:47<dihedral> <-- LOL 'programming point of view'... read the OpenTTDLib thread and you'll know that he should not mentiong 'programming point of vew' :-D
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05:11<Eddi|zuHause2>err... isn't that already implemented?!?
05:12<dihedral>forcing companies to set a password?
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05:54<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, that's what he meant...
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07:33<dihedral>you silent lot...
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08:08<Ammler>(Recall talk yesterday?)
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08:19[~]SpComb blinks
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08:23<dihedral>14:08 < Ammler> (Recall talk yesterday?) <-- freak :-P
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08:26<SpComb>hmm, all of my power station smoke plumes have frozen
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08:31<Eddi|zuHause2>they're on strike because you did not pay them enough
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08:49<@Belugas>good goody day all
08:52<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb would say "moin"
08:57<dihedral>hello Belugas
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09:31[~]dihedral pats Sacro on the head
09:32[~]Belugas svn ups
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09:55[~]Belugas wonders what would be the base cost of industry removal.
09:56<@Belugas>could not be simply build_industry
09:56<@Belugas>and yes, i know, removal of industries is only a hack right now
09:56<@Belugas>ad should remain free
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09:57<@Belugas>but, deep in my mind, i want to add the cost removal for newgrf industries that specify one
09:57<@Belugas>just to make it even more chanllenging :D
09:57<@Belugas>"hooo. you cheat? with newgrf? pay :D"
09:57<Eddi|zuHause2>occasionally i'd want to fund an industry to move its location
09:58<@Belugas>a move-industry cost
09:59<frosch123>Belugas: NewGrfWiki says, that TTDP uses house-removal base
09:59<Eddi|zuHause2>just a random thought... not really a feature request
10:00<@Belugas>ha.. nice :)
10:00<@Belugas>thanks frosch123
10:01<Ammler>Belugas: if you think about new base costs, foundations would also be worth to think about....
10:01<@Belugas>yeah yeah... i've heard it already ;)
10:02<@Belugas>but i'm not talking here about adding new base cost...
10:04<@Belugas>i have two industries props that I have to implement fast, while i have the time and possibility to do so
10:05<@Belugas>and th removal cost is one of them
10:05<@Belugas>the other one is already started, just not completed, and giving me a tiny little bit of a problem...
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10:40<Eddi|zuHause2>see :p
10:44<@Belugas>reminds me the sound of my crying kid :)
10:44[~]dihedral wonders if when belugas starts adding a base cost for removing industries, he might add something else too :-D
10:45<@Belugas>[10:03] <@Belugas> but i'm not talking here about adding new base cost...
10:45<@Belugas>[10:06] <@Belugas> i have two industries props that I have to implement fast, while i have the time and possibility to do so
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10:45<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
10:46<dihedral>Belugas: i was kidding...
10:48<fjb>I need diagonal rail / road crossings... :-(
10:51<Eddi|zuHause2>maedhros had a patch for that
10:52<Eddi|zuHause2>but it turned out to be too difficult to handle simultaneous activation
10:52<Eddi|zuHause2>also it probably broke with the addition of new road types
10:52<fjb>Hm... :-(
10:52<Eddi|zuHause2>(aka tram)
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10:52<fjb>Then I need diagonal bridges and tunnels...
10:53<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ was working on that, i believe
10:54<fjb>That would be great.
10:54<fjb>The stupid ai hast builds roads everywhere and has no mony left for vehicles... :-/
10:55<Eddi|zuHause2>it's your fault to play with AI in the first place...
10:57<fjb>It gets a bit boring to be alone in that world. The ai usually makes it a bit more coloufull. And a bit more difficult to build around it.
10:57<Eddi|zuHause2>not in my world...
10:58<fjb>At least it adds some more company colors...
10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>you can use the subsidiaries patch ;)
10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>and a 2cc set
10:58<fjb>Maybe I should try it. :-)
10:59<fjb>I'm using 2cc sets already. Looks really nice.
10:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i never used one... always dbset
11:00<dihedral>fjb: try the noai branch
11:00<dihedral>it will only be as bad as you write the ai
11:00<fjb>I tryed tropic. The houses there are cute. But BD in tropic? No, no... :-)
11:01<fjb>Hm, a new ai. Added to the todo list.
11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11533 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Rename some unclear clear_x prices member names.
11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: While at it, remove one unused entry on the clear_price_table array.
11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: It is based on ground type, and the unused one was referencing a non existing one.
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11:13<fjb>Going up hill diagonally would also be a great feature.
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11:17<dihedral>having squirrel as a console language would also be great :-P
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11:20<dihedral>esp. if ther then were options to do 'chat filtering' etc
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11:20<dihedral>hello skidd13
11:20<skidd13>Hi dihedral
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12:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11534 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
12:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature(newgrf): Implement property 23h for Industries.
12:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: This will add a cost to the removal of an industry using the cheat magic bulldozer.
12:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Note that the removal of regular or newgrf industries without specified removal cost will have no cost applied to.
12:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: This is a difference from original spec, where a default base cost is added.
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12:39<dihedral>one of my servers running 0.6.0-beta1 just asserted
12:39<dihedral>openttd: /var/www/users/openttd/stuff/0.6.0-beta1/src/road_map.h:22: RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD)' failed.
12:40<skidd13>dihedral: Any idea when it happend?
12:40<dihedral>unfort not
12:40<dihedral>could this be caused by new grf's?
12:40<LeviathNL>I don't think so.
12:41<dihedral> <-- 2 mins before crash
12:41<dihedral>autosave3.sav is 11 mins before crash
12:43<skidd13>dihedral: Can I download seperate grf from the package or do I have to download the full package?
12:44<dihedral>you would have to download the full package
12:44<dihedral>it's the latest coop one
12:45<LeviathNL>does not seem to crash on r11534 (all grf's loaded)
12:45<dihedral>there was a desync error from one of the clients just before
12:46<dihedral>2 mins after he joined again it died
12:48<dihedral>18:48 < oh> I might actually have been trying to do a road connection between two close cities aswell yeah
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12:49<dihedral>18:49 < oh> I don't remember exactly, autoroad tool and a bridge across two diagonal rail lines
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12:53<dihedral>18:51 < oh> aberdston
12:53<dihedral>18:52 < oh> I'm not 100% sure what I was doing last, but it was either placing landbuys around that airport or trying to place road between aberdston and brentfingburg
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12:55<dihedral>skidd13: is that info enough?
12:57<skidd13>dihedral: Not quite sure. Is this game a 100% 0.6b1 game?
12:58<+glx>dihedral: probably fixed by r11524
12:59<dihedral>skidd13: no - it has server side patching for administrativ purposes
12:59<dihedral>but if it's fixed in r11524 then that's fine :-)
13:00<dihedral>the administrative patches are executing a script file every year, and my reload config patch
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13:10[~]dihedral pats Sacro on the head
13:11<dihedral>it will all be ok Sacro :-P
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13:32<Sacro>"COPENHAGEN (AFP) — Passengers at a Danish train station were left out in the cold on Monday when a couple began having sex in the waiting room, police said."
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13:43<Wolf01>"and Sacro was there"
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14:16<DaleStan>Belugas: It sounds to me like the default value for industry prop 32 in OpenTTD is "zero", not "unspecified".
14:16<@Belugas>did I said unspecified somewhere?
14:17[~]Belugas checks everything
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14:17<DaleStan>Patch wiki: "None specified".
14:18<DaleStan>Which sounds to me like "unspecified", not "specified to be 'none'".
14:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r11535 /trunk/src/lang/ukrainian.txt:
14:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-11-27 20:21:42
14:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 fixed by mad (1)
14:22<@Belugas>true, DaleStan
14:23<@Belugas>bad choice of words in fact.
14:23[~]Belugas tries to reformulate
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14:24<@Belugas>"The default value is 1000 in TTDPatch for every default industry type, while it would rather be 0 (zero) for OpenTTD."
14:24<@Belugas>DaleStan: looks/sounds better?
14:25[~]Belugas removed "rather"
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14:29<DaleStan>I'd say just "The default value is 1000 in TTDPatch, and zero in OpenTTD". At least in Patch, the default appears to apply to all industries, whether default or NewGRF.
14:36<@Belugas>perferct :)
14:36<@Belugas>thanks for pointing it.
14:37<@Belugas>I'm not used to edit or change texts in ttdp wiki. I'll try to be more ... consistent in the futur
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15:14<Wolf01>too many pictures to link, look the entire page, some situations are really funny:
15:16<Wolf01>we might implement some new disasters for ottd
15:19<Prof_Frink>Wolf01: <-- Back a bit, back a bit... stop.. STOP!
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15:19<Wolf01>eheh :D
15:20<SmatZ>hmm no new bugs today
15:23<dihedral>is that a question?
15:23<SmatZ>just a comment
15:23<Prof_Frink>Is this?
15:23<SmatZ>if you find any, please submit it
15:24<@Belugas>if you find any, please fix it
15:24<SmatZ>is that a question?
15:24<Prof_Frink>SmatZ: BUG: openttd is unable to make tea.
15:24<Prof_Frink>Severity: Ubercritical
15:24<SmatZ>hmm should fix it :-/
15:27<Prof_Frink>SmatZ: There's also an unspecified cheatybug in multiplayer
15:28<SmatZ>Prof_Frink: please post a way to reproduce it :-P
15:28<Prof_Frink>All I know is:
15:28<Prof_Frink>[20:24:51] < prottt> hey, is it possible to do something against cheaters?
15:28<Prof_Frink>[20:25:06] < prottt> one guy in multiplayer is making somehow money
15:29<SmatZ>depends what version it is
15:29<SmatZ>many cheats / exploits were fixed in 0.5.3
15:30<SmatZ>maybe he just have very profittable company though...
15:30<+glx>and depends on how it makes money
15:31<Prof_Frink>SmatZ: "in" or "since"? 'cause it is 0.5.3
15:32<SmatZ>there was a way to eanr money by buying shares in a bankrupted company
15:32<Prof_Frink>Looks like this is insider trading
15:33<Sacro>Prof_Frink: yeah it is
15:33<Prof_Frink>Buy shares in co. -> send all your money -> sell
15:33<Sacro>tunel is a dummy company
15:33<SmatZ>hmm yes
15:33<SmatZ>"tunel" - I heard this word has Czech origins for this meaning :-D
15:34<Sacro>Prof_Frink: not unspecified
15:34<Sacro>tis well known
15:34<Prof_Frink>It was unspecified at the time
15:36<SmatZ>when there was a privatisation, people bought government companies, sent all money to some other company... and let the company die :-p
15:36<SmatZ>no wonder people do not like privatisation
15:37<SmatZ>there were too bad laws
15:37<SmatZ>(and are)
15:39<SmatZ>hmm I should really fix some bugs I reported :-/
15:40<@Belugas>yeah :D
15:40<@Belugas>that would be cool ;)
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15:54<dihedral>night ladies :-)
15:54<hylje>night lady
15:54<@Belugas>bye sweety
15:55[~]dihedral slaps hylje
15:55<dihedral>not infornt of Belugas !!
15:55<hylje>ooh, embarassed?
15:56<dihedral>no - just sticking to priorities
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16:19<@Belugas>DaleStan, how does ttdp handle the rail conversion cost ? To your knowledge, is it the same as in ottd? Is there a special mechanism been written?
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17:02<DaleStan>Belugas: Cost of rail conversion is, I believe, the same as the net cost of clearing and rebuilding the tile. Brief tests support this.
17:03<Gonozal_VIII>normal to electric is cheaper
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17:05<Gonozal_VIII>no... everything is cheaper
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't make much sense...
17:16<Gonozal_VIII>converting to a railtype costs the same no matter what type the rail had before
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>ok, makes sense... but since when do you get the same for clearing a maglev and clearing a normal rail? :S
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17:21<Wolf01>convert rail should cost like: remove old track cost + build new track cost
17:25<Wolf01>or maybe without the remove cost, as the player has a big ammount of money when he decides to convert all his routes at once, but i think that not all the people will agree
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17:25<Gonozal_VIII>remove cost is same for every railtype, i think that used to be different
17:26<SmatZ>I am almost sure it was alway the same
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17:28<SmatZ> that should fix it
17:28<fjb>Hm, I'm having a problem with Pikka's industries in tropic climate. Refinaries are not buildable. The error states that this industry must be build below snow line. How funny...
17:29<Gonozal_VIII>try building it on water :-)
17:30<fjb>Good idea. I just tried it only o land yet.
17:30<fjb>And almost everything need fuel oil... :-(
17:32<fjb>No, doesn't work on water either. :-P
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17:49<fjb>The industry things it is in arctic climate.
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17:49<SmatZ>computers cannot think
17:50<SmatZ>nor industries...
17:51<ln->they were thinging
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17:53<fjb>You are really helpful in solving the fuel crises.
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18:01<fjb>Towns are having an better roads option. But what they really need is a better bridges option: :-)
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause2>what set are the new cantilever bridges from?
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18:15<Digitalfox>fjb: What newgrf is this ?? :\
18:15<Digitalfox>newships?? :\
18:15<Digitalfox>Haven't seen it before
18:16<+glx>it's a very old newgrf
18:16<Digitalfox>pretty cool
18:16<DaleStan>I can't name it, but I recognize it. Those are docks in the upper circle and a ship depot in the lower.
18:17<Digitalfox>But it's not part of michael newships set :\
18:17<Digitalfox>Well it's not in newships set..
18:17<fjb>Here ist a screenshot of all grfs:
18:18<Digitalfox>but i've only tried in climate
18:18<Gonozal_VIII> <-- must be in one of those
18:18<fjb>The harbour is from newships or container fright station and harbour.
18:19<fjb>I think it must be container fright station and harbour.
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>container fright station and harbour <-- only fake
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>no real docks, only train stations
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>it's not from there
18:20<Digitalfox>ok, thanks for the info.. I was reading the logs and found that screenshot, so i camne here to find out what dock was that :)
18:20<fjb>Hm, it is not from new ships.
18:20<Digitalfox>good night everyone :)
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18:20<Gonozal_VIII>nope, deactivated newships, still there...
18:22<fjb>Industrial station renewal?
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's it
18:24<fjb>GRFs are fun if you have the right combinations. Some people think the more the better. Some are thinking that they get many more vehicles by loading many vehicle grfs at once...
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18:25<Gonozal_VIII>normally i only use grfs when i know what they do... but i didn't know it with the industrial station renewal...
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18:26<fjb>That happens. I know a server where the admins are thinking that loading three train sets at once is a good idea and gives them many more vehicles. :-)
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18:28<Gonozal_VIII>it could make sense to load more than one if they don't use all ids and you want to have some of set 1 and some of set 2... like with lv4 and trams
18:28<Gonozal_VIII>-could + can
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18:29<Sacro>"Your moms like fast-forward routing, she allows me to send my packets into her, before I even finish telling her my name."
18:30<SmatZ>hmm sex
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18:30<SmatZ>it is everywhere
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18:31<fjb>Yes, but three of the big train sets is not a good idea, especially if water wagons start to emit diesel smoke and mal wagons look like tenders.
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18:32<fjb>They are still thinking everything is working correct. But you only get the vehicles from the last train set. Just with added features. :-)
18:33<fjb>Atleast I could convince them, that 6 tram sets at once should be an one time experiment.
18:33<fjb>And ofcourse they never read the readmes of the grfs they are using.
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>how should anybody know that a file called "readme" should be read
18:35<fjb>I don't know. I would never hve expected...
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18:41<SpComb>hmm, rapidly scrollling in and out is bad for your health
18:41<Sacro>is anyone here good with mediawiki
18:41<SpComb>it just made me sneeze
18:42<SpComb>Sacro: Nikerabbit is
18:42<Sacro>we really should collate all the Visual Studio information into one page
18:42<SpComb>"reboot into linux and use gcc instead"
18:42<fjb>SpBot: Set the viewport to follow an airplane circling over an airport. :-)
18:42<SpComb>fjb: while scrolling in and out?
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18:43<SpComb>besides, I can't build an airport
18:43<fjb>SpBot: No, just without scrolling should do.
18:43<fjb>SpBot: Why can't you?
18:43<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: you do know what "we need to" means?
18:43<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: don't question my english :p
18:44<SpComb>it's October 2088, my company went bankrupt decades ago
18:44<Eddi|zuHause2>no, i don't mean the meaning, i mean the _real_ meaning ;)
18:44<Gonozal_VIII>how did you manage to go bankrupt?
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>that's a difficult task
18:45<SpComb>Gonozal_VIII: didn't touch the game after joining it, just left the client open
18:45<SpComb>hmm... perhaps the smoke plumes not moving has something to do with the fact that the date's been stuck on the 27th of October 2088 for quite a while now
18:45<SpComb>help, my time's stuck!
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>lost connection to the server
18:45<fjb>Oh, poor company...
18:46<SpComb>Gonozal_VIII: shouldn't it throw you out into the main menu then?
18:46<SpComb>fjb: also, I'm SpComb, not SpBot
18:46<SpComb>although both of them do hilight me
18:46<Gonozal_VIII>not when you loose the internet connection
18:46<SpComb>(as does MyOTTD)
18:46<fjb>Oh, sorry
18:46<SpComb>you mean it doesn't use SO_KEEPALIVE or do application-level livelyness checks?
18:47<fjb>SpComb: Maybe somebody just stole your time. :-)
18:47<@Belugas>thanks fopr answer, DaleStan
18:47<SpComb>besides, the server and the client are on the same LAN, and both are definately alive
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>i have that every time my internet connection resets
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18:49<fjb>Belugas: Do you have any idea why Pikka's refinery things it is above the snow line when it is in subarctic climate?
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>because it is
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>snow everywhere
18:49<fjb>Red snow? This is not the martian climate. :-P
18:50<fjb>I meant subtropic climate ofcourse, sorry.
18:51<fjb>I'm getting tired, I think.
18:51<Sacro>Just seen a sign outside B&Q: "Stainless Steel Sinks".
18:51<Sacro>Bit obvious, I thought.
18:52<fjb>many ships proved it.
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>it has 7,8times the density, it has to sink :-)
18:56<fjb>Proving that theory is an usual way to make a ship famous.
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm if you replace the water with mercury no ships will sink anymore
18:59<fjb>That is a really good idea. No problems with ice beneath the sea.
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19:00<@Belugas>fjb : i do not know. better ask the man i=himself :)
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>that could in theory bring up some new problems but we shouldn't think that far ahead... no more sinking ships are cool
19:03<fjb>But there would be many man starting a new religion...
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19:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11536 /trunk/src/table/tree_land.h: -Codechange: Align some elements of the _tree_layout_sprite table a little better looking for the eye
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20:27<ln->nån som talar svenska som modersmål, händer upp!
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20:28<@Belugas>ln-, warning
20:28<ln->Belugas, error
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20:32<@Belugas>warning removed
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20:39<ln->ingenting mera, händer ner.
20:40<+glx>ln-: warning :)
20:44<ln->just in case someone didn't understand, the second line was about cancelling my earlier request.
20:45<ln->it's swedish, half the planet understands it.
20:45<Gonozal_VIII>what request?
20:45<@Belugas>too bad, there is another half who does not understand it ;)
20:48<ln->Gonozal_VIII: the one you see above.
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20:48<Gonozal_VIII>that's an error message :P
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20:49<ln->wtf kind of an error message would that be
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>[02:28:27] ln-: Belugas, error
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>a belugas error
20:50<ln->Gonozal_VIII: if you'd try 3 lines up from that.
20:50<Eddi|zuHause3>the question is half of which planet :p
20:51<Gonozal_VIII>that's some random chars :-)
20:51<Gonozal_VIII>planet scandinavia
20:53<@Belugas>time to sleep
20:53<@Belugas>good night
20:53<Gonozal_VIII>good night
20:58<Eddi|zuHause3>now the question is if he has weird sleep patterns, or we do :p
20:58[~]ln- slept 1930..0930 last night
20:59<ln->(sic, there is no am/pm trick there)
20:59<Gonozal_VIII>16:00 - 20:30 this night :-)
21:00<Eddi|zuHause3>but is that an answer to the question?
21:00<ln->we should know his time zone first.
21:01<Eddi|zuHause3>GMT-5 i assume
21:01<Eddi|zuHause3>which means it would be 21:00
21:02<ln->if one gets up at 06:00, then 21:00 is a very good time to go to sleep.
21:03<ln->otherwise it sounds early
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>21-6 is 9h
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>that's long...
21:04<Eddi|zuHause3>[Di Nov 27 2007] [14:49:33] <Belugas> good goody day all
21:04<Eddi|zuHause3>-6h means 8:49
21:05<Eddi|zuHause3>while you should not assume that greeting on IRC is the first thing he does in the morning
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21:05<ln->Gonozal_VIII: 9..10h is the normal sleeping time for e.g. me.
21:05<Gonozal_VIII>why not?
21:06<Gonozal_VIII>after sleeping 9-10h i'm more tired then before
21:06<Gonozal_VIII>you know what i mean :P
21:07<ln->but it's crazy, would you say "... bin ich müder dann früher" in german?
21:08<Gonozal_VIII>i know that it was wrong, i often mix up a and e while typing
21:08<ln->in that particular word, or others too?
21:09<Gonozal_VIII>in words that start the same in general
21:09<ln->i'm just interested how can a german-speaker make that mistake, as dann and als sound and mean completely the different.
21:09<Gonozal_VIII>i sometimes start a word but finish another...
21:09<ln->you're not the first, there was also dominik81.
21:11<Gonozal_VIII>i have that in german too
21:11<Gonozal_VIII>i think of a word but i type a different one without noticing
21:12<ln->but not with the pair dann/als, i'd guess.
21:13<Gonozal_VIII>your often comes out as you're, don't know why
21:14<Gonozal_VIII>things like that... with same beginning
21:14<ln->impressive, learning how to write like a stupid american without being one. :)
21:14[~]AntB is english so isn't offended by that
21:16<ln->besides, only _stupid_ americans were being insulted, not even all americans.
21:16<AntB>i lost count of the amount of times people (americans and canadians) have tried correcting me because of words like colour...
21:17<SERVEPRO>its color
21:17<ln->"its" ...
21:17[~]AntB slaps SERVEPRO
21:18<SERVEPRO>there correcting you because over they're its different
21:18<AntB>i know :D
21:18<AntB>i even had one tell to me learn proper english (o_O)
21:21<ln->AntB: do you minimize or minimise windows?
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21:22<Gonozal_VIII>minimice :D
21:23<Gonozal_VIII>Millifortnights (about 20 minutes) and nanofortnights (1.2096 milliseconds) have also been used occasionally in computer science
21:23<AntB>i minimise
21:25<Eddi|zuHause3><ln-> but it's crazy, would you say "... bin ich müder dann früher" in german? <- not exactly the same situation, but there is often a mixup between "als" and "wie" in german
21:25<SERVEPRO>arse, aeroplane, pyjamas, storey, tyre
21:25<Sacro>SERVEPRO: they're, there ><
21:26<Sacro>oh and, "it's colour"
21:26<SERVEPRO>you dont know a joke when you see one do you
21:26<Sacro>"its colour" would get the reply "whats colour?"
21:26<+glx>it's Sacro ;)
21:26<Sacro>glx: yes, I am a grammer nazi
21:27<ln->Eddi|zuHause3: interesting.. i always knew that's a tough one for non-natives
21:28<Eddi|zuHause3>interesting, here is a black ladybug with red dots...
21:28<Gonozal_VIII>its colour is strange
21:28<Gonozal_VIII>see, i used it :D
21:29<Eddi|zuHause3><Sacro> "its colour" would get the reply "whats colour?" <- like "the doctor" gets the reply "doctor who?" :p
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21:32<ln->do we agree that the third form of the verb "to help" is "geholpen"?
21:32<Gonozal_VIII>f, not p
21:33<Eddi|zuHause3>"helfen, half, geholfen" (strong verb)
21:33<Eddi|zuHause3>kauf dich mal ne tüte deutsch, mich hats auch gehelft
21:33<Gonozal_VIII>helfen, helfte, gehelft for some :-)
21:34<Eddi|zuHause3>(note: this was intentional unproper german)
21:36<ln->3. weak pa. tense and pple. 3- helped, (4-5 -id, -yd, -et, -it, -yt), 6-9 helpt. 6-7 holpt.
21:37<Eddi|zuHause3>i didn't understand a word either...
21:38<Eddi|zuHause3>btw. "pple" sounds very ambiguous, because there exist "present participle" and "past participle"
21:39<ln->i guess it means just participle and the pa. before and is related to that
21:39<Eddi|zuHause3>(while here it clearly means "past participle")
21:39<Gonozal_VIII>people :-)
21:40<Eddi|zuHause3>but what does 3-, 4-5, 6-9 and 6-7 mean?
21:41<ln->could be persons
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21:42<Eddi|zuHause3>it's your dictionary, it should have an introduction explainging this ;)
21:42<ln->i admit my approach to this matter is not very scientific.
21:44<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, i have not heard of a classification of "strong" and "weak" in english... only "normal" (probably from german weak) and "irregular" (long list, probably remnants of german strong)
21:47<Eddi|zuHause3>interestingly, some german weak verbs got into the english irregular list
21:47<Eddi|zuHause3>e.g. "sagen - sagte - gesagt" -> "say - said - said"
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21:53<Eddi|zuHause3>note when i say "from german" i mean the common roots
21:53<Eddi|zuHause3>modern german grammar is said to have evolved around 1350
21:53<Eddi|zuHause3>14th century
21:53<Eddi|zuHause3>which is way after the anglo saxons settled over to britain
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22:15<Eddi|zuHause3>*poch* *poch* is this thing still on?
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22:27<Gonozal_VIII>good night
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22:40<Gella>i have a quesion
22:40<Gella>would anyone help me plz
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 28 00:00:05 2007