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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-11-29

---Logopened Thu Nov 29 00:00:38 2007
00:14|-|Soup [HydraIRC@60-150-58-66.gci.net] has joined #openttd
00:14<Soup>hi
00:15<Soup>hi devs
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00:26<BigBB>moin Soup
00:28<Soup>huh
00:28<BigBB>what kind of soup you are?
00:28<BigBB>:)
00:29<Soup>*me gets opensuse10.3 live
00:29<Soup>cd
00:30<BigBB>indigestive
00:34<Soup>indigestive whats that?
00:42<Soup>684.89 MB for a live cd!
00:43<BigBB>what is you "OTTD" problem?
00:43<BigBB>s/you/your
00:43<Soup>no bugs in beta
00:44<Soup>not for me
00:44<BigBB>thats fine, but no problem...
00:45<BigBB><Soup> indigestive whats that? say your mother language and maybe I can help you ...
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00:50<[1]Soup>ahh a [1]Soup
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00:50<[1]Soup>me resets
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00:53|-|[1]Soup changed nick to Soup
00:53<Soup>thats better
00:55<Soup>come to !!Public Server!!
00:55<Soup>has tarms
00:56<Soup>beta1 server
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01:06<BigBB>Soup, you're a flavourless soup...
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01:08<Soup>flavorless soup why?
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01:17<Soup>server newgame now
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01:26<Rubidium>what are tarms?
01:27<Gonozal_VIII>new word for double decker trams
01:28<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: are you sure? could be farms, trams or tars
01:28<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm you're right...
01:29<Gonozal_VIII>could be farm sprites in tars!
01:31<Soup>huh?
01:32<Soup>better linux
01:32<Soup>ow
01:34<Gonozal_VIII>stupid assignment :-/ (stupid me)
01:34<Soup>me yoo
01:34<Soup>me too
01:36<Soup>7Eo\x87dJ\x90H\xAB\xB9\x83\x80R\xB1\xC3Zi[\xFF\xAF&\xB2\xB3~\x82\x80rV2B\xE8)f\xE3\x93\xBC\xAA\xB1\x8B\xD5sd/
01:36<Soup>QÒk»$‹¿²r6™/«3ßìHÀTòàôÉΟh(áùôÏ¿¡ýC2™›[
01:36<Soup>wow
01:36<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is that
01:36<Soup>in a savegame
01:36<Soup>wow
01:37<Gonozal_VIII>you can't read a savegame with texteditor...
01:37<Soup>i can
01:37<Gonozal_VIII>ok....
01:37<Soup>by a override the computer
01:39<Soup>me slaps delestlan
01:39[~]Soup likes slapping people and randomly picks DaleStan to slap.
01:40[~]Soup breaks out the slapping rod and looks sternly at Soup
01:40[~]DaleStan likes /ignoring people and *cough*randomly*cough* picks Soup to /ignore.
01:41<Soup>huh?
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01:42<Soup>whats a thick
01:43[~]Soup slaps DaleStan with a large smelly trout
01:46<Eddi|zuHause2>that's a really good idea
01:47|-|mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ
01:48<@Rubidium>I know a better one...
01:48|-|mode/#openttd [+b *!*HydraIRC@*.gci.net] by Rubidium
01:48|-|Soup kicked [#openttd] Rubidium [Soup]
01:49<Eddi|zuHause2>"'Auch gut', sagte der Meister."
01:50<@Rubidium>poor Soup... he PMs me, but in this screen I cannot see the top part of the IRC window ;)
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01:54|-|mode/#openttd [-b *!*HydraIRC@*.gci.net] by Rubidium
01:54<SERVEPRO_>that guy is weird
01:56<@Rubidium>and hopefully put on /ignore by everybody
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02:00<Gonozal_VIII>Error:
02:00<Gonozal_VIII>Too many functional dependencies have been lost. (max: 2, lost: 3)... argh
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02:08|-|mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by Rubidium
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02:23<Gonozal_VIII>yay i made it :D
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02:26<dihedral>morning
02:27<Gonozal_VIII>hi
02:27<Eddi|zuHause2>congratulations, i assume ;)
02:27<Gonozal_VIII>thanks :D
02:28<Gonozal_VIII>decompose "algorithm" sucks
02:29<dihedral>i thought Soup cot ganned from #openttd
02:29<Gonozal_VIII>not for long
02:35<dihedral>i was here when it happened...
02:35<dihedral>ah well
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05:31<fjb>Moin
05:34<SpComb>Mui.
05:40<fjb>:-)
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06:10<SpComb>work on a bunch of boring physics practice questions or continue fiddling with OpenTTD?
06:10<SpComb>http://dev.myottd.net:8119/ <-- for those who didn't notice it last night
06:11<hylje>do physics practice by fiddling with openttd
06:11<SpComb>not really an option
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06:11[~]SpComb needs moar computer science courses
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06:16<Tefad>overloaded sir.
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06:41<SpComb>haha
06:42<SpComb>someone played around with the zoom and it crashed
06:45[~]SpComb didn't even know that error existed
06:49<Hendy>Hrm, I should play a bit of openttd at work
06:49|-|Hendy changed nick to Hendikins
06:49<Hendikins>Although I'm already playing with trains there
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08:05<Frostregen>SpComb: nice :)
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09:15<@Belugas>toumtedoum guys
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09:18<fjb>Hi Belugas
09:23<dihedral>hello Belugas
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09:23|-|mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
09:25<@Belugas>hello guys
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09:43[~]Hendikins pulls out his laptop to install openttd on it
09:43<Hendikins>My workmates already joke that I'm a rail buff, so I might as well play openttd at work :P
09:44[~]Belugas puts on his Diatonis CD and gets ready for another astral musical escape
09:45[~]fjb thinks about ordering a laptop.
09:46<Hendikins>I've had to put off my new laptop so that I can help the parents pay for termite treatment
09:52[~]fjb never owned a laptop.
09:53<Hendikins>I'm finding mine very handy for the gaps between trains at work
09:53<fjb>Laptops are really handy.
09:53<Hendikins>A 4 trains per hour frequency can get quite boring, particularly on weekends.
09:54<Hendikins>This weekend we'll have 8 trains/hour because of trackwork (yes, you did read that correctly, we've got twice as many trains because they're doing trackwork)
09:54<Hendikins>(Above figures in each direction, although we only really care about one direction)
09:55<+glx>service trains I guess
09:55<Hendikins>No.
09:55<Hendikins>It is because of where they're doing the shutdown.
09:56<Hendikins>We normally get 2 trains/hour to Sydney via two different routes.
09:56<Hendikins>(Total: 4tph)
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09:57<Hendikins>Thing is, we're getting trains off the west, which normally doesn't happen
09:59[~]fjb thinks about 4 trains per hour in TTD.
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10:12<Sacro>rawr
10:12<skidd13>Heel Sarco!
10:13<Hendikins>Rawwwwr!
10:13<skidd13>Any dog-catcher out there?
10:14|-|mode/#openttd [+o skidd13] by Belugas
10:14<@Belugas>one more now :)
10:15<@skidd13>Any dog without a home in here? :D
10:16<@Belugas>"I've been to the desert on a horse with no name..."
10:20<fjb>:-)
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10:23<Frederik>Hello
10:23<@skidd13>Belugas: IIRC Canada has only ice desert... brrrr cold
10:24<Frederik>I might have a stupid question, and i'm sorry to bother everyone with it, you must be getting these all the time. I'm trying to find the buildings in this picture: http://www.openttd.org/screens.php?image=images/screens/0.5.0/japan_national_railway_3_aug_1984 . The GRF files, would someone happen to know where they are downloadable?
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10:27<@Belugas>i'm not totally sure. I think the grf used for this screeni is either ttrs2 or my own replacement set
10:28<Frederik>ttrs2 http://users.skynet.be/florisjan/ttd/ttrs.html#ss
10:28<Frederik>thats that one right?
10:28<Frederik>or is ttrs2 different?
10:29<@Belugas>that is ttrs3. the look has changed
10:29|-|Gege [~jo-reggel@static-81-17-185-44.dunaweb.hu] has joined #openttd
10:29<@Belugas>this is my own version ( but far not as sophisticated) ; http://www.tt-forums.net/download.php?id=36487
10:30<Gege>hello
10:30<@Belugas>ttrs2 used to be available from ttdpatch's wiki, iirc. but i can't see it anymore
10:31<Frederik>Belugas, i'll go try yours, :)
10:31<Frederik>hold on
10:31<Frederik>see what its like
10:31<Frederik>thanks for the help already
10:31|-|Guest69 kicked [#openttd] Belugas [by user demand]
10:31<DaleStan>It might have been there, but the wiki isn't particularly used as a graphics repository.
10:32<@Belugas>mine is a poor, really poor one. the real thing is much more enjoyable
10:32<Frederik>yeh it has some, but not all
10:32<Frederik>is ttrs2 available somewhere then?
10:32<@Belugas>true, DaleStan. It's just that i remember seeing it in http://www.ttdpatch.net/newgrf.html
10:32<@Belugas>when ttrs3 was already avaiable
10:33<DaleStan>Probably just an update delay; getting that page updated requires talking to Patchman.
10:33<@Belugas>ha...
10:34<@Belugas>good point
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10:35<Frederik>whats the difference between ttrs2 and ttrs3
10:35<Frederik>just different buildings or also 'better'
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10:37<@Belugas>different buildings and more features
10:37<@Belugas>a lot of more features
10:37<Frederik>hmm
10:38<Frederik>I like the buildings in that screenshot best :)
10:38<@Belugas>roads, bridges...
10:38<@Belugas>many people do prefer ttrs2 too.
10:38<@Belugas>you're not alone
10:38<Frederik>ah yeh, ttrs2 also has other roads
10:38<Frederik>:)
10:38<Frederik>didnt notice
10:38<Frederik>isnt there someone who can dcc it to me?
10:39<@Belugas>i can't
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10:39<Frederik>anyone else?
10:39<Frederik>i'm probaply not allowed to notice the channel ami? :)
10:42-Frederik:#openttd-hello people, sorry for the notice, is there someone who could direct me/dcc me the grf file from zimlock, TTRS2? would be very very grateful
10:42<Frederik>:( :)
10:43<Sacro>Frederik: a good way to make friends
10:43<Frederik>not notice
10:43<Frederik>?
10:43<Frederik>:)
10:49<Frederik>ill use the 3rd one
10:50<Frederik>can someone tell me maybe how I set multiple parameters?
10:50<Frederik>how do I define what is the first 2nd 3rd and 4th parameter in the parameter line
10:50<+glx>easy: 1 2 3 ...
10:50<Frederik>so 0 2 0 0
10:50<Frederik>would work
10:50<+glx>yes
10:50<Frederik>ok thanks
10:51<Hendikins>Frederik: If you notice this notice, you'll notice this notice isn't worth noticing.
10:52<Frederik>;)
10:54<Frederik>hm
10:54<Frederik>ttrs3 doesnt work for openttd? :)
10:55<@Belugas>ttrs3 certainly works for ottd. unless you are using 0.5.3 and lower
10:55<@Belugas>you need nightlies of the 0.6 beta 1
10:56<Frederik>ah
10:56<Frederik>ok I use the latest stable one
10:56<Frederik>so 0.5.3
10:56<Frederik>want to use it for multiplayer, and dont want any crashes midgame :)
10:56<Frederik>for whatever reason
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10:57<Ammller>Frederik: the beta is quite stable
10:58<Frederik>it is?
10:58<@Belugas>ho yeah... and loaded with a lot of goodies too
10:59<Frederik>so go for that? :)
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10:59|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
10:59<Ammller>the devs makes a very good job when submitting something to the trunk, so its hard to find bugs
10:59<Ammller>but we work daily to hunt them :P
11:00<Hendikins>I should probably also get a mouse if I plan to play openttd on the laptop
11:00[~]Hendikins suspects using a scratchpad might get a tad irritating
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11:04<SmatZ>hello OTTDers
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11:20<ln->has anyone used libjpeg (directly)?
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11:42<Sacro>rawr
11:44<joosa>no
11:45<Hendikins>Whuff
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11:49<@Belugas>sub-humans
11:50<SmatZ>yes master?
11:50<Hendikins>Pfft. Humans. :P
11:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean you are just sub?
11:55<Gege>SUB is:
11:55<Gege>an acronym for the Seafarers' Union of Burma
11:55<Gege>the ticker symbol for Summit Bancorp of New Jersey on the New York Stock Exchange
11:55<Gege>the IATA airport code for Juanda Airport in Surabaya, Indonesia
11:55<Gege>the name of the substitute character in the C0 control code set
11:55<Gege>from wikipedia:D
11:58<Gege>or
11:58<Gege>Those who take the superior position are called dominants, doms (male) or dommes (female), while those who take the subordinate position are called submissives or subs (male or female).
11:58<Gege>what type of sub you are?
11:59<Hendikins>Eddi|zuHause2: I am wolfox, hear me rawr :P
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12:17<Sacro>http://bash.org/?826387
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12:34<Wolf01>hello
12:36<SmatZ>hello Wolf01
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12:44<Gege>hmm anyone who can help me in ottd 0.5.3 console commands
12:45<Gege>how can i change the difficultysettings like breakdowns from the console?
12:46<Gege>i don"t see the difficulty settings in the patches list
12:46<SmatZ>Gege: hmm I don't think this is possible
12:47<Gege>thats a big problem because i run a remote server
12:47<Gege>and i only can change the game from the server
12:47<Gege>sorry:D
12:47<Gege>form the console
12:49<Gege>that's really not possible or you think it's not possible?
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12:52<Gege>someone other who know this is possible or not?
12:53<+glx>it's not possible
12:54<Gege>:(
12:54<Gege>in that way how can i run a remoted server?
12:54|-||Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit []
12:54<Gege>every time i need to send the openttd config file?
12:55<Gege>or theres any way to run the serv with my config file
12:55<Gege>or load my cfg in a running server?
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12:58<@Belugas>is it somethng that can be done with scripts? Donnu, i'm not a server/netword guy
12:59<SmatZ>it shouldn't be hard to set difficulty settings as runtime-configurable
12:59<SmatZ>like most of patches
12:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think the difficulty settings can be changed other than in the config file
13:00<@Belugas>dihedral might answer that one...
13:00<Eddi|zuHause2>honestly, the real way to go should be to remove the difficulty settings alltogether, and fit them in a common system with the other patch settings
13:00<@Belugas>SmatZ, difficulty settings must not be changed ar run time
13:01<Eddi|zuHause2>Belugas: some can be changed (at least on the difficulty settings window)
13:01|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
13:01<SmatZ>Belugas: why?
13:01<Eddi|zuHause2>like turning in stations
13:02<@Belugas>i don't remember exactly why, but i know there is a pretty good reason for it
13:02<SmatZ>:-)
13:02<@Belugas>yeah... at my age, memory is a resource i cannot rely on anymore :(
13:03<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it makes no sense to change the generation settings, like town density
13:04<Eddi|zuHause2>changing the cost settings could possibly wreak havoc
13:04<SmatZ>but breakdowns, are there any newGRF depending on its setting?
13:05<ln->has someone removed the [x] already?
13:05<SmatZ>[x] ?
13:05<skidd13>SmatZ: You can check if the manipulations are valid with the callbacks in the settings array
13:05<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: the [x] on the difficulty settings window exits without saving
13:05<Eddi|zuHause2>which is unlike any other window
13:06<ln->exactly that one.
13:08<SmatZ>skidd13: not so long ago Rubidium commited change that disallows any changes of some patches in runtime
13:08<SmatZ>no matter what newgrf you have loaded
13:09<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: ah...
13:09<skidd13>SmatZ: There my memory fails...
13:10<DaleStan>I don't think you can read the breakdown setting in newGRF. You can play games using a vehicle's reliability, though.
13:11<DaleStan>(On the assumption that a reliability of < 25% means that breakdowns are off.)
13:11<SmatZ>skidd13: r11452
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13:13<skidd13>SmatZ: I trust your memory (this time) ;) :P
13:14<ln->it has not been removed yet. someone remove it right away, or else...
13:23<ln->i'm still waiting
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13:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11539 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Feature: Make the bridge selection window resizable
13:28<ln->wrong answer
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13:31<ln->seems that each window has the [x] and it cannot be easily removed.
13:31<ln->it can be disabled easily, but then the window won't move either.
13:31<ln->does that matter?
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13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>just add a confirmation window on clicking [x]
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>"are you sure to discard all changes?"
13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>there are other such windows, like on clicking the "sell all" button in the depot
13:36<Gege>the way i running the serv: the serv running about 100km from me and i only can configure the serv with console commands (like this rcon (remote pass) "command"
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>Gege: like i said, i don't think that is possible
13:37<Gege>i can restart the game with new settings but only with commands
13:37<+glx>usually people running remote servers also use ssh to start them
13:37<Gege>i dont see the windowses ehat you see when im run the serv
13:37<Gege>ssh?
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>the only options you have is a) set the difficulty in the .cfg file before starting the server
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>or b) load a savegame that you created on a local client
13:37<Gege>i need to change te server cfg not my
13:38<Gege>yes i used the b version
13:39<Gege>but i hoped there are other way to make changes
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13:41<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: confirmation dialogs are annoying, but i guess that's the least complicated option here.
13:41<ln->now who should we assign this problem to
13:42<ln->skidd13: whatever you are doing, stop it, and fix the problem mentioned above. thank you.
13:42<Gonozal_VIII>!above
13:42<Gonozal_VIII>!logs
13:42<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
13:44<skidd13>ln-: First of all. Stop to order a dev! Second what are you talking about
13:46<Prof_Frink>skidd13: Hi, I'd like a dev.
13:46<joosa>one for me as well, please
13:46<blathijs>You should stop before you order one, though
13:46<joosa>oops. I meant beer
13:47<blathijs>ln-: And, what problem are you talking about? :-)
13:47<Gonozal_VIII>drive through dev-shop?
13:47<SmatZ>:-D
13:47<blathijs>One for every home
13:47<Frostregen>hehe
13:47<skidd13>Today only 1 Million € each
13:47<SmatZ>www.rentacoder.com/
13:49<ln->blathijs: adding a confirmation dialog that appears after clicking [x] in difficulty settings window.
13:49<Prof_Frink>joosa: Maybe it's /dev/beer
13:49<ln->skidd13: sorry, i thought direct orders to a random victim could be the most efficient method, and bjarni was not here.
13:50<Prof_Frink>device node for a hand pull
13:50<skidd13>ln-: That has been discussed earlier. And IIRC the esence was that it should stay as it is
13:50<ln->wtf, it definitely shouldn't.
13:51<ln->20:05 < Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: the [x] on the difficulty settings window exits without saving
13:51<ln->20:05 < Eddi|zuHause2> which is unlike any other window
13:51<skidd13>ln-: A solution hopped into my mind... Why don't remove the window [x] so the user has to use one of the buttons
13:51<ln->it behaves unlike any other window in that respect. that's extremely confusing.
13:52<skidd13>ln-: popups are bad style
13:52<ln->20:31 < ln-> seems that each window has the [x] and it cannot be easily removed.
13:52<ln->20:31 < ln-> it can be disabled easily, but then the window won't move either.
13:52<ln->20:31 < ln-> does that matter?
13:52<ln->skidd13: i definitely agree popups are bad style.
13:52<ln->skidd13: i absolutely prefer removing the [x] if that is technically possible.
13:53<skidd13>ln-: Now calm down and wait... Maybe someone will solve the problem... ;) :D
13:54[~]Prof_Frink still thinks there should be a unified settings dialogue
13:54<skidd13>ln-: If not try yourself
13:55<ln->i'm afraid it might need changes to parts that require the secred wisdom of knowing how windows are drawn.
13:55<ln->secret
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13:57<Gonozal_VIII>write an algorithm that randomly changes parts of the code... you will eventually get the result you want :-)
13:59<Prof_Frink>cat /dev/urandom >./bin/openttd
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14:02<@Belugas>one good rule for seeing a feature request been commited is that the matter is a fun idea, fun to program and fun to test, that someone is having time to do it, that it is usefull to more than one person and... well ... asked politely
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14:04<ln->i'm glad you didn't mention submitting a patch.
14:04<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Or kidnap them and don't let them out till it's done
14:04<@Belugas>that surely helps speeding the process
14:05<@Belugas>Prof_Frink, come and get me ;)
14:05<@Belugas>DARE!
14:05<Prof_Frink>Meh, maybe later
14:05<ln->Belugas: according to my experience, it takes 2..6 months for few-line patches to get accepted.
14:05<@Belugas>yeah, right...
14:05<Prof_Frink>I've got some patches for openprocrastination to sort first.
14:06<@Belugas>look in the logs for all the -patch by- that recently got in truk ln-...
14:06<@Belugas>and if your patches did not get in, there may some freaking good reasons
14:06<ln->freaking good reasons such as "Darkvater" and "Tron".
14:07<@Belugas>@seen Darkvater
14:07<@DorpsGek>Belugas: I have not seen Darkvater.
14:08<@Belugas>@seen Tron
14:08<@DorpsGek>Belugas: Tron was last seen in #openttd 24 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 52 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <Tron> let me revert it
14:08<@Belugas>so...
14:08<@Belugas>like...
14:08<ln->Prof_Frink: oh yes, taking hostages could be a great way to speed up development.
14:08<ln->and that was not *the* Tron
14:08<@Belugas>nope, that was TruelLight/Brain
14:09<@Belugas>tron left irc way before that
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14:50[~]Belugas puts on a medieval inspired music cd
14:56|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
14:57<SpComb>there be Dragons
15:02[~]Wolf01 puts on Rhapsody playlist :P
15:20[~]exe_ plays Kaledon
15:23[~]Belugas wants one : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oud
15:24[~]Prof_Frink sets the Ood on Belugas
15:25<@Belugas>:D
15:25<@Belugas>spoing spoing
15:25<Gonozal_VIII>nobody wrote here so i got bored... the result: http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/junction.png
15:26[~]Wolf01 wants one http://images.google.com/images?q=girl&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rls=org.mozilla:it:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
15:26[~]Belugas NEEDS this one too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy_gurdy
15:26<SmatZ>Wolf01: :-D
15:26<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: nice junction
15:26[~]Belugas cannot help Wolf01. ain't commitable ;)
15:26<SmatZ>^_^
15:27<Wolf01>nice one Gonozal_VIII, finally a junction which uses the new bridge frature
15:27<@Belugas>nice, Gonozal_VIII
15:27<Wolf01>*eature
15:27<Wolf01>*+f
15:27<Gonozal_VIII>thanks :-)
15:28<SmatZ>Wolf01: sympatic one :) http://www.linux.it/~napo/uploads/Home/Debian-girl.jpg
15:28[~]Wolf01 is going to play Beneath a Steel Sky
15:29<Wolf01>(when a girl can beat me on computers things, then that's a girl for me)
15:29<SmatZ>;-)
15:30<@Belugas>my wife is far better than me on the OFF switch
15:30<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
15:30<blathijs>Wolf01: Isn't that that scummvm game?
15:30<Wolf01>yes
15:31<blathijs>Nice :-)
15:31<blathijs>I'm playing Flight of the Amazon Queen atm :-)
15:32<Wolf01>i finished it last year, then i played the secret of monkey island
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15:39<blathijs>Nice :-)
15:43[~]Belugas thinks he will tune his guitar in "C F A D G C" as soon as he gets home
15:43<hylje>tune your guitar AAAAAA
15:43<hylje>http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/AAAAAAAAA!
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15:43<Wolf01>lol
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15:44<@Belugas>monotone tuning :S hard to compose, i migh say
15:46<@Belugas>my prefered tuning so far is DADGAD (electric) and DGDGDC (accoustic)
15:46<@Belugas>if ever that means anything to anyone but me ^_^
15:47<Maedhros>i wish it did, but tragically it doesn't mean much to me ;-)
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15:49<Gonozal_VIII>shouldn't some of those be lowercase?
15:50<Eddi|zuHause2>"Eine Alte Dame Ging Hering Essen"
15:50<Eddi|zuHause2>that's the tuning of guitar sites i remember
15:50|-|HerzogDeXtE1 [~dex@i577B6C37.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
15:50<Prof_Frink>Some tall bird ate a ginger herring.
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15:51<@Belugas>easy. a regular 6 string guitar is tuned (from bigger to tiner) as Eddi|zuHause2 spotted, EADGBE
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15:51<@Belugas>that is the regular cannonic of tuning one guitare
15:51<@Belugas>each letter been a note, by the way
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15:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i learned a tiny bit of guitar playing in 2nd class
15:52<Eddi|zuHause2>wasn't really my deal
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15:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i started learning Tuba in 4th grade then ;)
15:53<@Belugas>'ve been playng guit since i was 16 or 17
15:53<@Belugas>afer a while, i got bored with the regular tuning
15:53<@Belugas>I like to change the tuning of both my guitars, as it gives me new possibilities of chords pattern or even open strings cool sounds
15:53<Gonozal_VIII>and you're 18 now?
15:53<@Belugas>nope... 42
15:54<Gonozal_VIII>aaah the answer
15:54<Prof_Frink>So /that's/ why my air guitaring is so bad...
15:54<@Belugas>lol
15:55<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: you bought it from ebay?
15:55<Eddi|zuHause2>i've heard of people being scamed on ebay
15:55<Eddi|zuHause2>especially with air guitars
15:56<Prof_Frink>Yeah, it's hard to find a good one
15:56<Gonozal_VIII>air guitars as in wlan cable?
15:56<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, those are the most common
15:56<Prof_Frink>But I got this from a proper air guitar shop
15:57<Eddi|zuHause2>btw. there are more such mnemonic sentences for music notes
15:57<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: Can you go down the shop and get me a left-handed screwdriver and some striped paint?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause2>like "Geh Du Alter Esel Hole FISch"
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15:57<Prof_Frink>Every Gay Boy Desires Freddie.
15:59<Eddi|zuHause2>which are the #-keys
15:59<Eddi|zuHause2>there's another one for the b-keys
15:59<Eddi|zuHause2>but i never remember it
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause2>because i know those by heart
16:01<Eddi|zuHause2>those are like my natural habitat ;)
16:02<Eddi|zuHause2>note that the german system of notes is slightly different from the english one
16:02<Eddi|zuHause2>the german note "H" is the english note "B", the german note "B" is the english note "Bb"
16:03<@Belugas>strange
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>it's probably hysterical raisins...
16:04<@Belugas>i guess so
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16:04<@Belugas>still playing tuba?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause2>yes
16:05<Eddi|zuHause2>we have our yearly christmas concert in two weeks
16:06[~]Belugas remembers been part of christmas service orchestra.
16:06|-|KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-213-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
16:07[~]Belugas wishes lot of fun to Eddi|zuHause2
16:07<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it's technically a "concert in christmas time"
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16:08|-|HerzogDeXtE1 changed nick to HerzogDeXtEr
16:08<Wolf01>a friend of mine is angry about the bad quality of the port of ottd for gp2x...
16:10<@Belugas>tell him to fix it :S
16:10<Wolf01>"...do an official gp2x port!" his words "do it yourself" mine XD
16:10<@Belugas>lol
16:11<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: you should have said "pay me to do so"
16:13<Wolf01>"i'll try to do something in the next days" .. i'll see... i hope to not see fireworks from his home, earthquakes, or something bad
16:13<Wolf01>he is a delphi developer, he never touched c/c++ :P
16:13<+glx>same for Belugas IIRC
16:13<+glx>in the begining
16:14[~]Belugas confirms
16:14<Eddi|zuHause2>in my CS studies i learned to not learn a language
16:14<Eddi|zuHause2>but to learn how to learn languages
16:15<+glx>all languages are similar indeed
16:15<Wolf01>yes, what change is only the syntax
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16:16<Wolf01>groan.. i'm lost at beneath a steel sky :|
16:16<Eddi|zuHause2>the important thing are the tiny subtleties in the semantics
16:17<Eddi|zuHause2>like wether evaluation order is defined or undefined
16:17<@Belugas>tiny? there are some big differences sometimes...
16:17<Eddi|zuHause2>size is relative to the viewer ;)
16:18<Eddi|zuHause2>what's also important is to get to know the libraries that ship with the language
16:20<@Belugas>[16:19] <Eddi|zuHause2> size is relative to the viewer ;) <-- but not to the dev sitting behind the keyboard..
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16:23<ln->has someone tested the MMX/SSE optimized libjpeg that can be found in mozilla's sources?
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16:25[~]Belugas gives a negative answer on his part. Nor does he have intention to test it either
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16:54<@Belugas>the nerve of some people >:(
16:58<Wolf01>still lost at beneath a steel sky
16:59<Wolf01>40 minutes without any solution :(
17:01<@Belugas>hem... what is a steel sky?
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17:01<Wolf01>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneath_a_Steel_Sky
17:02<blathijs>Belugas: aptitude install beneath-a-steel-sky
17:04<@Belugas>haa :)
17:04<@Belugas>looks pretty interesting
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17:07<skidd13>Broken sword is better
17:07<Wolf01>this is one of the last great games
17:08<@Belugas>wow... take to go home is well past over!
17:08<blathijs>Indeed, they don't make quality games like these anymore :-)
17:08[~]Belugas runs home
17:08<@Belugas>good night
17:08<Wolf01>http://www.the-underdogs.info/ give a look here
17:11<skidd13>night Belugas
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17:35<fjb>I like the new bridges over diagonal tracks. This looks like the smallest usefull threeway junction: http://www.myimg.de/?img=FastFreight20Okt19769966b.png
17:36<Prof_Frink>fjb: Looks larger than a trumpet-type
17:36<Prof_Frink>Especially with custombridgeheads
17:36<Gonozal_VIII>tight curve, long bridge....
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17:38<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/junction.png <-- try half of that for threeway
17:38<fjb>The tight curve can be a problem, But there was tight space. I don't see that a bridge that lenght is a problem.
17:39<fjb>Custom bridgeheads or diagonal bridges can offer many new possibilities, but they are not in OpenTTD yet.
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>there are diagonal bridges in patch?
17:39<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: I have already seen it, but that would be way too large to fit in in the small space I had.
17:40<Gonozal_VIII>nah, can be much smaller without the middle part
17:40<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't need that for threeway
17:40<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Not that I'm aware of, but custom bridgeheads are in patch.
17:40<Gonozal_VIII>i know about the custom bridgeheads
17:41<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: When you shrink your crossing to the smalles threeway size, then it is what I did. :-)
17:41<Prof_Frink>Still, my Whirlpool setup handles the One Junction challenge no problem
17:42<fjb>Prof_Frink: Do you have a picture of your smallest threeway junction?
17:42<Prof_Frink>fjb: five min
17:44<fjb>Ok.
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17:47<Prof_Frink>alanblanchflower.co.uk/images/trumpet.png
17:48[~]Sacro looks at Prof_Frink's trumpet
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17:50<fjb>I would say that is not smaller than my type, but it "hangs over" at the other side of the main line. Not good if it is at the side of a hill.
17:50<Prof_Frink>and whirlpool.png for a free-flowing, split-before-join, non-conflicting 4-way
17:51<fjb>And it has more sharp turns at that size.
17:51<Prof_Frink>fjb: Yeah, when hills come into play it gets more interesting
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17:51<fjb>My actual scenario is very hilly, almost mountainy. :-)
17:53<fjb>The whirlpool looks great, but is farr too large for the mountains. And gladly I almost never need fourway crossings.
17:54<Prof_Frink>And if you want to avoid the M6J15-style curve on the trumpet you just pull that bridge over the splitting track and merge NW of the bridges
17:54<Prof_Frink>fjb: Well, it was designed to fit in the box it's in :)
17:55<fjb>Was the box designed to fit the whirlpool? :-)
17:55<Prof_Frink>When you compare it to the monstrosities that openttdcoop create...
17:55<Prof_Frink>fjb: No, the box was designed to make it challenging
17:56<fjb>Making the trumped bigger avoids the sharp turns, but when you can build large, there is no need to find a small solution.
17:56<Eddi|zuHause2>my junctions usually look more like this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png
17:57<fjb>openttdcoop people always create mosters.
17:57<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: You need PBS
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>yes i do :p
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, those are PBS
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17:57<Prof_Frink>My junctions tend to start out as trumpets, then... mutate
17:58<Prof_Frink>Near a big station, all hell tends to break loose
17:58<ln->who's watching House?
17:58<Prof_Frink>Hmm, I wonder
17:58<ln->House M.D., that is.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause2>a hacky variant without PBS: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png
17:59<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: Nice junction, but is it a junction or a station? Or more tham one station? Hmmm....
17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>it's 3 stations and like 4 junctions, or so...
18:01<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: In which year did that game start?
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18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>another PBS variant: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png
18:02<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: the first (and last) picture is from a 1920 game with 32x daylength
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>that's a great shot: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%204.%20Sep%201925.png
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18:05<fjb>32x daylenght explains a lot...
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, it's a little over the top...
18:05<svippy>Wow, Eddi|zuHause2, it truly is.
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/junction2.png
18:05<Sacro>today is a good day to die -http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1196057805369.jpg
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>the other game is with 4x daylength
18:06<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: The last shot looks really nice.
18:06<Sacro>http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1196057805369.jpg even
18:06<SmatZ>nice
18:07<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: No signals after the switchyard, only in front of it. We need better signals.
18:07<Sacro>SmatZ: note the points :p
18:07<Sacro>http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1195804410923.jpg <-- NEE NAW :D
18:08<SmatZ>:-D
18:08<Gonozal_VIII>signals missing? where?
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: yeah, i'm really proud of that one ;)
18:08<SmatZ>[00:06:14] <Sacro> http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1196057805369.jpg even <--- it is perfect
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: what's your point?
18:08<Sacro>what is perfect?
18:09<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: the other train is sorta... aimed at the camera
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>they've got pbs!
18:09<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: No signals missing, TTD nedds too many signals.
18:09<fjb>needs
18:09<Sacro>i quite like the absolute block
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
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18:10<fjb>Sacro: The other train is facing a red signal.
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>would be nice to let the signal blocks handle the switching... like trains in group 2 that enter from line 1 are forwarded to line 4 or something... then the pbs implementation would be easy for each signal block and no pathfinder would be needed :-)
18:17<Eddi|zuHause2>programmable switches?
18:17<Gonozal_VIII>yes
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>that'll be a usability nightmare...
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>you'll have to think more
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>i have a suggestion: waypoints on tile edges!
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>then you could do platform numbers, without using additional space
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>then all you need is optional orderst
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>-t
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>i don't like waypoints that much
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>ah...
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>ok then they are ok
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>"go to waypoint A or waypoint B"
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>but they are too strict now
18:21<fjb>Better implement routing restrictions, but please don't abuse signals for that.
18:21<Gonozal_VIII>i like the programmable switches :D
18:21<fjb>And don't make them ultimate restrictions, more soft restrictions like the route markers.
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18:22<Gonozal_VIII>i wanted to do a mockup screenshot about that some days ago but then i had to do something else and forgot about it...
18:22[~]fjb also likes programmable switches, but that would scare people away. :-(
18:23<fjb>Not that few people are thinking that wagon speed limits are already making the game unplayable hard...
18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>wagon speed limits are great...
18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>plus you can switch them off if you want to...
18:25<fjb>Yes, switching them off is what many people are doing. So they don't have to choose the best locomotive for the task but always the fastest.
18:27<Gonozal_VIII>there will always be people that don't like more complexity, there could be a switch to use normal pathfinder or programmable switches
18:28<fjb>That switch would be needed.
18:28<Gonozal_VIII>a switch could have orders like: trains from group 2 go to exit b, trains that need servicing go to exit c, trains that have station x as next target in their orders go to exit d, default go to exit a
18:29<fjb>I really don't know how you can not get rich in this game when you are not an absolute beginner. But it looks like the game is too difficuld fore some people.
18:30<Eddi|zuHause2>"if train has next order X, previous order Y, is A ticks late, has taken path B the last time it passed here, and it is full moon, take path Z"
18:30<Sacro>fjb: please try not to not negate negative things
18:30<Gonozal_VIII>yes... even on hard and with expansive newgrfs it's very hard not to get stinkin' rich
18:30<fjb>Sacro: Ok. :-)
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i once managed to get 5 running routes and pay back my loan in the 2 year demo
18:31<Gonozal_VIII>only one condition at a time eddi ;-)
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: that's stupid...
18:31<Gonozal_VIII>first conditions in the list are stronger and get checked first
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>if you make it programmable, you might as well make it turing complete
18:31<fjb>What is the english word for Fahrstarße?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause2>context?
18:32<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know... what's the german meaning of that?^^
18:32<Sacro>walking street?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause2>Fahrstraßensignal = PBS
18:32[~]Sacro fahrt
18:32<Gonozal_VIII>ah...
18:32[~]Sacro sniggers
18:33<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: i am sure you heard bjarni talking about the queen and "i fart"
18:33<fjb>It means you are programming kind of routes with the switches and signals. It is far more tham PBS. It is from the start to the end of that route.
18:33<dihedral>Gege: i wrote a 'reload config' patch
18:34<Eddi|zuHause2>that's what PBS do, they reserve a path from the current signal to the next one
18:34<dihedral>as a bunch of settings cannot be changed at runtime
18:34<dihedral>this way you can edit the settings via progmans config tool
18:34<dihedral>and they will be used at next 'newgame'
18:35<dihedral>or when the server reaches 'restart_game_year' and starts a new game that way
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18:47<ln->when is the next dutch-only day on this channel?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause2>when was the previous one?
18:50<Sacro>montag?
18:50<Eddi|zuHause2>that's not dutch ;)
18:50<Gonozal_VIII>i don't say "montag" i have my own system :-)
18:51<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: well... even if there was no previous one, that doesn't imply there couldn't be a next one.
18:52|-|G_ [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>(Anfangtag, Nachanfangtag, Mittetag, Vorendetag, Endetag, Nachendetag, Voranfangtag)
18:52<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i was implying that the time until the next one could be relative to the time since the last one
18:53<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: i wouldn't like to have a "voranfangstag"... that'd be really depressing
18:54<Gonozal_VIII>but on vorendetag you would know that the week is almost over :-)
18:55[~]Sacro can't remember german days
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18:56<Gonozal_VIII>"Mittwoch" doesn't fit in with the others
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>in my system it does :-)
18:58|-|LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:58<Eddi|zuHause2>it's the middle of the work-week
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>you could also call them A, A+, M, E-, E, E+, A-
18:59<ln->who is Dien?
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>dien?
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>ah...
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know where that comes from
19:00<SmatZ>dien ~ servant ?
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>could be from dienst
19:01<ln->Mon is moon, and Sonn is sun, right?
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>mond and sonne, yes
19:02<ln->and tor is the god of thunder, in torsdag/Thursday
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>"Der Name „Dienstag“, mittelniederdeutsch dingesdach, geht auf den mit dem latinisierten Namen Mars Thingsus belegten nordisch-germanischen Gott Tyr, Beschützer des Things zurück und ist eine Lehnübertragung von lat. dies martis = „Tag des Mars“."
19:02<ln->is he also Donner?
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>Donar, yes
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>"Der Name „Dienstag“, mittelniederdeutsch dingesdach, geht auf den mit dem latinisierten Namen Mars Thingsus belegten nordisch-germanischen Gott Tyr, Beschützer des Things zurück und ist eine Lehnübertragung von lat. dies martis = „Tag des Mars“."
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>damn...
19:04<ln->i demand the Pope to immediately change these obviously pagan weekday names to something appropriate.
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>hmm seven names... sins?
19:04<SmatZ>like Tag 1a, Tag 1b, Tag 1c, ... , Tag 2a, Tag 2b
19:04<SmatZ>1 stands for working day, 2 for weekend
19:05<SmatZ>actually, I had a plan to change everything to be 10-based
19:05<SmatZ>10 days in week
19:05<SmatZ>10 months in a year...
19:05<Gonozal_VIII>that would be short years...
19:05<SmatZ>then I discovered the base 2/16 numbers
19:05<Wolf01>'night
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19:05<SmatZ>months could have 36 ir 37 days
19:05<SmatZ>so it would be 10 * 36,5 = 365
19:06<SmatZ>normal year
19:06<ln->SmatZ: the year used to have 10 months back in the good old days.
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>it did?
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>when?
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, "back in the old days", years used to be moon based
19:06<ln->SmatZ: that's why Sep = 7, Oct = 8, Nov = 9, Dec = 10
19:06<SmatZ>and 7 workdays + 3 weekened days is very similiar ratio to current 5+2
19:06<SmatZ>ln-: interesting, didn't know that
19:06<SmatZ>though it sounds logical
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>no, that's not because it had 10 month but because it started in march
19:07<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: also solution :)
19:07<SmatZ>depends how long those months were... and given they were likely 28 days long...
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>so when methusalem is supposed to be some 900 years old, that's more like 900 months
19:07<SmatZ>it should be rather 13 months
19:07<SmatZ>:-)
19:08<Gonozal_VIII>75 years is also very old for back then
19:08<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, indeed, but a much more reasonable number
19:10<ln->someone has proposed a 28-day month, which would mean the month is always 4 weeks, and the weekdays always match the same numbers.
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>7 day month... so no months at all
19:11<SmatZ>^_^
19:12<SmatZ>true, why don't we just say 300. day of 2007
19:12<SmatZ>or 703405. day AD?
19:12<ln->that's almost as bizarre as expressing times using week numbers.
19:12<SmatZ>that's the same
19:13<Gonozal_VIII>because it is the 334. :-)
19:13<ln->SmatZ: or unix time stamps, to be more exact.
19:13<SmatZ>:-)
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: the julian calendar counted days in a 4 year period
19:13<SmatZ>nice
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: what actually happened to the tunnel thingie?
19:14<Gonozal_VIII>we could use unix time like they use stardate in star trek :-)
19:15<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: too much other things... sometimes I make a little progress, but... :-/ there are many things to be done in OTTD before 0.6 is out
19:15<ln->"oh, it's you, i haven't seen you since 1133309609!"
19:15<SmatZ>Star date 3056.6
19:15<SmatZ>:)
19:15<ln->don't forget swatch internet time.
19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>in A.D. 2101, war was beginning
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>:D
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>ayb!
19:17<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm measure time in openttd revision numbers?
19:18<SmatZ>that is not very periodical
19:18|-|dihedral [~root@joshua.dihedral.de] has quit [Quit: off to sweeden for a week... cu then :-)]
19:18<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't matter if you use it properly :-)
19:18<ln->neither are years equally long, and nobody seems to care
19:19<Eddi|zuHause2>especially problematic for actions happening in the future...
19:19<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: they don't need to be equal, but predictable
19:20<Gonozal_VIII>you should just stop planning ahead then
19:21<ln->leap seconds are not decided about too many years in advance
19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but how many leap seconds do you need to be a day off?
19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>and how many actions need to be predicted by a range closer than a day over a year in advance?
19:23<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: you may try this, it is for some "ancient" revision 11060... you also have to replace opntitle.dat and load the only savegame that is provided :) http://dev.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/
19:24<SmatZ>problem is missing support for diagonal bridges in grf
19:24<SmatZ>so I was trying to tweak current sprites... I am not sure about it
19:24<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: "Der Mittwoch ist nach deutscher Zählung (DIN 1355) der dritte Wochentag, nach christlich-jüdischer Zählung der vierte (und somit der mittlere)."
19:25|-|Arpad [~Gali@204.13.236.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25<Gonozal_VIII>:S
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>ha! quantum based units
19:27<SmatZ>talking with myself :) http://paste.openttd.org/321
19:27<Gonozal_VIII>yay?
19:27<SmatZ>:)
19:27<SmatZ>just wanted to try it
19:28<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: btw. "Donner" also means "thunder"
19:28<SmatZ>now I am going to convert deutsch sentences into passive form :-D
19:28<ln->so i kind of thought
19:28<ln->half-consciously
19:30<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm should i go to sleep now or stay up and take the train home at 5:10...
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>yes.
19:31<Gonozal_VIII>^^
19:31<ln->doesn't make sense to sleep anymore.
19:32<Gonozal_VIII>last time i took that train they had some problems with the engine and it was 20 minutes late
19:32<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: please, "man kann eine Tasse Kaffee anbieten" ist in passivum "eine Tasse Kaffee kann angeboten werden", right?
19:33<Eddi|zuHause2>that sounds correct
19:33<SmatZ>thanks
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>yes it is
19:33<SmatZ>thanks :)
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>you're good
19:33<SmatZ>I spent like five minutes thinking about it, but thanks ;-)
19:34|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:36<ln->what to buy for an x-mas present to an 11-year-old? (my little brother)
19:36<Eddi|zuHause2>a 14-day free AOL CD :p
19:36<SmatZ>:-D
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>ttd :D
19:37<SmatZ>:)
19:37<SmatZ>maybe Lego?
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>yes lego is great
19:37<Eddi|zuHause2><Sacro> http://bash.org/?826387
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>i've got at least 2 of those cds lying around somewhere
19:39<SERVEPRO_>two is 28 days of free
19:39<SmatZ>is the perfektum from "verbinden" "vergebonden"? I cannot find it anywhere :-/
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>"verbunden"?
19:40<SmatZ>thanks Eddi|zuHause2
19:40<Gonozal_VIII>depends on what perfektum is^^
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>in most cases, such things depend on context
19:41<SmatZ>of course, "ver-" is unlikely to be disconnected
19:41<SmatZ>"Können Sie Beruf und Familie problemlos miteinander verbinden?"
19:42<Gonozal_VIII>right
19:42<SmatZ>:)
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>the funniest one is "umgehen"
19:43<SmatZ>why?
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>or better "umfahren"
19:43<SmatZ>"ist umgegangen?"
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>because "ich fahre um" means something entirely different from "ich umfahre"
19:43<SmatZ>ah :)
19:48<Eddi|zuHause2>these two cases are quite easy to distinguish, but in the infitive form "umfahren", you have to be very careful, which syllable you emphasise ;)
19:49<SmatZ>like UMfahren or umFAhren?
19:49<Gonozal_VIII>btw i think you only capitalize "sie" in letters... not sure because they changed a lot of the rules that i learned in school
19:49<Eddi|zuHause2>yes. exactly
19:50<Eddi|zuHause2>i think, if you emphasise the first syllable, you split it off, if you emphasise the second syllable, you don't
19:51<Eddi|zuHause2>but it's quite difficult for a native speaker to recognise this kind of regularity
19:51<SmatZ>really nothing for me...
19:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean, if you are native speaker, you do not think about it, you just do it
19:57<Eddi|zuHause2>what i also just noticed:
19:58<Eddi|zuHause2>it is verbinden -> verbunden
19:58<Eddi|zuHause2>but it is umbinden -> umgebunden
19:59<SmatZ>it is rather complex :)
19:59<ln->i guess you don't pay much attention to the sets { an, auf, hinter, in, neben, über, unter, vor, zwischen }, { aus, bei, mit, nach, seit, von, zu }, { durch, für, gegen, ohne, um }
19:59<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, you do learn those at school
20:00<SmatZ>ist gesprochen worden / müssen abgeschickt werden / werden untergeschrieben ... :-)
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>especially in conjunction with which ones require 3rd case (Dativ) and which ones require 4th case (Akkusativ)
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>you do? can't remember... what about those?
20:00|-|jfc [~jfc@ip-20.47.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has joined #openttd
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: unterschrieben
20:01<SmatZ>thanks!
20:01<Gonozal_VIII>i guess i suck at german
20:02<ln->you should (both) listen to the german listening comprehension test for the matriculation examination in order to know that you suck in german.
20:02<ln->for the *finnish* ...
20:02<ln->matriculation examination
20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>you have any kind of examples?
20:05<ln->first of all, it is a test with a few pieces of text read aloud (from tape/cd), and 30 questions with options A,B,C(,D)
20:05<ln->and its name suggests it is supposed to measure how well you understood what was said on the tape.
20:06<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but that does not tell anything about the difficulty level...
20:06<ln->let's have a practical example:
20:07<ln->a school class from a german senior high visited our school (when i was still in senior high), and they listened to the test.
20:08<ln->the best ones got something like 27..29/30 of the questions right, i think no one got 30/30, and many got only just above 20/30.
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20:09<Eddi|zuHause2>that sounds like a quite reasonable distribution
20:09<ln->but for fox's sake, it is supposed to be a test that measures german skills of finns who have studied german only for 3 to 5 years.
20:09<Eddi|zuHause2>assuming 15/30 is the minimum requirement
20:09<ln->and then a whole class of native germans cannot get better results than that?
20:10<Gonozal_VIII>you can't remember everything you heard even if it was in your native language...
20:10|-|KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-213-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:10<Eddi|zuHause2>would mean >27 is "very good" and ~20 is "medium" result
20:10<ln->and that is because the questions are so tricky.. you are give 3 or 4 alternatives which are almost the same, but differ in some small detail.
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, the problem is that you need to know in advance what parts you really have to listen to
20:11<ln->so it's more a matter of ruling out the contradicting alternatives, and trying to remember what exactly did they say and what not.
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>in a normal conversation, you often block out stuff that you deem "uninteresting"
20:12<Eddi|zuHause2>that might even be done unconsciously
20:13<ln->and one more feature of the material that is listened to: it is being read veeeery s l o w l y .
20:13<ln->very well articulated.
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20:13<ln->that is, the kind of speech you almost never hear in real life, not even the news on TV.
20:15<ln->and then you go to germany and the girl at macdonald's desk asks you "köad daf akdfj ghadfg adkvabjgb? jkaadf gfvbgf?", and you have no idea wtf was being said.
20:16<Eddi|zuHause2>that's the point, it does not really matter what she said
20:16<Eddi|zuHause2>you just say "einmal bigmäc mit pommes und große fanta"
20:16<ln->it does if she expects an answer. :)
20:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you just say it again ;)
20:18<ln->actually, this was a true event but not in germany, but in sweden. (the situation is the same, and the listening comprehension tests are similar)
20:18<ln->in germany it was the conductor on train who asked me "dfjadfl akf ropgi dfgö aodfgofg?"
20:19<Gonozal_VIII>then you show him your ticket and he is happy :-)
20:19<ln->he wanted us to pay some additional supplement.
20:20<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: "und ein ketchup, bitte"
20:20<ln->or "einen"
20:20<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: that's probably what she was asking ;)
20:21<Eddi|zuHause2>and "hier essen oder mitnehmen?" (very important question!)
20:21<Gonozal_VIII>yes, the additional paper bag is veeeeery important
20:21<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: actually, it's about tax calculation
20:21<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: actually she was asking for some ID, because i was paying my 22kr (~2€) purchase with Visa.
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>tax calculation?
20:22<Eddi|zuHause2>"hier essen" is restaurant -> luxary good -> 19% tax
20:22<SmatZ>:-D
20:22<Eddi|zuHause2>"mitnehmen" is food -> reduced tax -> 7% (maybe changed?)
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>luxary goods are 33% or something here...
20:23<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: you can't imagine how quickly one can utter the word "Legitimation?"... whose meaning i didn't even know at the moment, and couldn't there for anticipate it.
20:23<Gonozal_VIII>reduced tax is 10% and doesn't apply to food
20:23<Eddi|zuHause2>you have strange laws in your country :p
20:24<ln->and i couldn't anticipate someone would want to see ID for a 2€ purchase.
20:24<ln->then i later heard that for swedish Visas the ID should always be asked. (but not foreign ones, like mine)
20:26<ln->but in general i understand an adequate percent of what's being said in german, so i can order food in Germany/Austria without resorting to english.
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20:27<ln->"bitte zwei kügeln erdbeer"
20:27<Gonozal_VIII>kugeln :-)
20:27<ln->sure about that? :)
20:27<ln->the dictionary agrees with you
20:27<SmatZ>like erdbeer icecream?
20:28<ln->SmatZ: ja, italienisch eis.
20:29<Eddi|zuHause2><ln-> "bitte zwei kügeln erdbeer" <- that's a funny issue, because in most cases, "umlauts" mean the word is in plural
20:30|-|Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77D33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
20:30<ln->Gonozal_VIII: ah, now i remember; i was using the wrong vowel first (but still got what i wanted), then i heard someone say it the correct way in front of me. and then i forgot it and wrote it wrong here.
20:30<Eddi|zuHause3>but the reverse is not necessarily true ;)
20:31<Gonozal_VIII>now you'll remember :-)
20:32<ln->i think kugel is analogous enough with e.g. vogel, which has the umlaut. :)
20:32<Eddi|zuHause3>but with vogel you do not add "n" in the plural
20:32<Eddi|zuHause3>because that would give a really different meaning :p
20:33<Gonozal_VIII>you can... but you shouldn't^^
20:33<ln->ah, birds + n, i just learned new vocabulary.
20:34<Gonozal_VIII>you know what it means?
20:34<ln->it's quite birdish in english too, duck.
20:35<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure if you really got the meaning right...
20:35<Gonozal_VIII>i think he has
20:35<ln->duck you, i have it right.
20:36<ln->:)
20:36<Eddi|zuHause3>right...
20:36<Eddi|zuHause3>although in german that is one of the really polite ways to express it...
20:37<Eddi|zuHause3>it does not have that negative connotation that the f word has...
20:37<Gonozal_VIII>the f word is not negative...
20:37<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26UA578yQ5g
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20:39<ln->hmm, does the plural of vogel happen to get an 'n' to its end in any flexed form?
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20:40<Gonozal_VIII>yes
20:40<Eddi|zuHause3>"Ich war einmal bei den Singvögeln, aber sie haben sich dann aufgespalten, die einen wollten nur noch singen, und die anderen nur noch..."
20:40<Eddi|zuHause3>(Otto Waalkes)
20:41<Gonozal_VIII>die vögel, der vögel, den vögeln, die vögel
20:41|-|G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd
20:41<+glx>nice all with squares ;)
20:42<Gonozal_VIII>lalala *hides*
20:42<ln->then your high school pupils have a lot to giggle about.
20:42<Eddi|zuHause3>it's only funny the first couple of thousand times...
20:42<Eddi|zuHause3>so it gets a little old after like 6 years...
20:43|-|G_ [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:43<ln->at about the time of finishing senior high. ;)
20:44<Eddi|zuHause3>honestly, there is more funny stuff...
20:44|-|Belugas_Gone [~jfc@ip-20.47.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:44<Eddi|zuHause3>like "Kentucky Schreit Ficken"
20:44<Gonozal_VIII>"wenn fliegen hinter fliegen fliegen, fliegen fliegen fliegen nach"
20:45<Eddi|zuHause3>if at all: "wenn hinter fliegen fliegen fliegen, fliegen fliegen fliegen hinterher"
20:45<Gonozal_VIII>"Wenn Fliegen hinter Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen nach" <-- easier to understand but less fun
20:45<Eddi|zuHause3>could also replace "fliegen" with "robben"
20:46<Gonozal_VIII>oh right... yours is better
20:46<Eddi|zuHause3>i previously had that exact same conversation in this exact same channel...
20:46<Gonozal_VIII>dejavu?
20:47<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, it's when they change something in the matrix
20:47<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
20:47<Eddi|zuHause3>btw. it's "déjà vu"
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20:48<Gonozal_VIII>yes, but i can't write that without utf-8 ;-)
20:48<Eddi|zuHause3>you can
20:48<Eddi|zuHause3>those letters are in all common extended ascii sets
20:49<Eddi|zuHause3>especially the space...
20:49<Gonozal_VIII>[02:47:41] Eddi|zuHause3: btw. it's "dà © j à   vu"
20:50<ln->Gonozal_VIII: anyhow, e' and `a are a part of e.g. Latin-1, your favorite charset.
20:50<Eddi|zuHause3>so? doesn't mean you can't write it
20:50<Gonozal_VIII>Déjà-vu
20:50<Eddi|zuHause3>see?
20:50<Gonozal_VIII>ok ok
20:51<+glx>use a "real" client ;)
20:52<ln->actually Gonozal_VIII's favorite charset might be Windows-1251.
20:52<Gonozal_VIII>i used to but i'm only in this channel now and i don't want to install a client for a single channel when i have such a nice plugin in trillian :-)
20:53<Eddi|zuHause3>1252 more likely...
20:53<ln->oops, you're right.
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21:09<ln->does anyone object if i order a couple of DS9 season boxes?
21:09|-|fjb [~frank@p5485E589.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia']
21:09<ln->~28€ each, including shipping.
21:24<Eddi|zuHause3>only if you then spam us with ds9 quotes in $random_language
21:25<+glx>I can use @kick in this case ;)
21:25<SERVEPRO_>ph33r
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21:52<ln->order placed
21:52<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes!
21:52<Gonozal_VIII>^^
21:53<@Belugas>anyone tried to work with kdev and ottd?
21:53<ln->also pre-ordered (from another place) Star Wars IV, V, and VI for the total price of about ~32€ + shipping.
21:53<alphax>Hi, I has a question about the train acceleration.
21:54<alphax>the manual say,
21:54<ln->"I has the bucket"
21:54<alphax>Non-Maglev train acceleration = 37 *(0.55 * Power / Speed - 1.3 * Mass + 60 * #cars + 0.0035 * Mass * Speed + 0.24 * Speed^2 - 60 * Mass of cars on slope) / Mass (kph/day)
21:54<alphax>what's the meaning of "37"?
21:54<Gonozal_VIII>i has a var
21:54|-|Guest125 [~Osai@pD9EB7D9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:55<Gonozal_VIII>37... some magic?
21:55<alphax>I don't understand.
21:57<ln->hey, you're from china?
21:58<@Belugas>alphax, where did you get those numbers?
21:59<alphax>yes. i am chinese.
22:00<alphax>to Belugas, The formula is declarated in the openttd manual page (wiki)
22:00<@Belugas>harghh...
22:01<@Belugas>ok, i check in the code
22:01<alphax>the bottom of the page on http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics
22:01<ln->alphax: tell me then, have you ever seen a device like this: http://www.unitend.com/utmost/UC-3101.html
22:02<ln->alphax: and/or do you know how much do they cost?
22:03<alphax>I dont known
22:03<Gonozal_VIII>what's that? usb tv reciever?
22:03<ln->Gonozal_VIII: yeah. for digital cable tv.
22:05<ln->Gonozal_VIII: the number of cable-receivers for USB 2.0 in the European market is: one (1)
22:05<Gonozal_VIII>really?
22:06<ln->as far as i know. there is one other, but it's not usb 2.0.
22:06<Gonozal_VIII>what's the difference between dvb-t and dvb-c?
22:07<ln->and this one is terribly expensive, ~150e although you can get -t models for even less than 20e.
22:07|-|BigBB [~BigBB@p5B041DB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:07<ln->Gonozal_VIII: different modulation technique used due to different properties of air and cable... from the end user's perspective: they simply are not compatible with each other either way.
22:08<Gonozal_VIII>hmm that sucks
22:08[~]Belugas keeps on seraching for accelration calculations
22:09<Gonozal_VIII>there are lots of dvb-t recievers, i have one myself... i thought you could just plug in the cable instead of the antenna...
22:10<ln->you can, but you won't see anything.
22:10<De_Ghost>hey
22:10<De_Ghost>in xp
22:10<De_Ghost>explorer is just ui for desktop
22:10<De_Ghost>does it manage any critical functions?
22:10<ln->except.. it is possible to broadcast dvb-t signal on cable-tv network, and someone even does that, but it's rare and sub-optimal.
22:10<De_Ghost>cuz i can live withour taskbar and everything
22:10<Gonozal_VIII>no, you can shut it off
22:10<De_Ghost>awsome
22:11<De_Ghost>lol
22:11<Gonozal_VIII>and restart it later if you want through the task manager
22:11<De_Ghost>yea i know :)
22:11<De_Ghost>cuz i though explorer manage some gay function or another
22:12<Gonozal_VIII>i haven't noticed anything failing because explorer wasn't running...
22:13<Gonozal_VIII>but i never had that situation for long so i don't know much about it
22:14<De_Ghost>yea i think explorer is just ui not api
22:14<@Belugas>haaa.. train_cmd.cpp:310
22:14<@Belugas>now... what do we have in here...
22:16<Gonozal_VIII>should be possible to write your own explorer and use that instead :-)
22:16<alphax>in last of the function, just return (force - resistance) / (mass * 4);
22:18<@Belugas>yeah, after a series of stuff i do not have a clue what they are there for...
22:18<Gonozal_VIII>somehow the dvb-c reveivers all have a hd built in
22:19<@Belugas>in both cases, anyway, the 37 is there...
22:19<@Belugas>so something like a physic constant, maybe
22:20<@Belugas>canno be gravitaion, too simple
22:20<@Belugas>hoo....
22:20<@Belugas>Road vehicles accelerate at 37kph/day.
22:21<@Belugas># Ships accelerate at 37kph/day.
22:21<@Belugas>so 37 could be seen as base acceleration in the game, mabe
22:22<Gonozal_VIII>i've been bugging a friend of mine who studied physics to look into the vehicle acceleration in openttd for some time now...
22:22<@Belugas>the algo just cange the regular acc adapted to the trains
22:22<alphax>but this constant is not appears in the source
22:22<@Belugas>indeed
22:23<@Belugas>but i've never touched vehicle code before either ;)
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22:26<alphax>ok, thanks for your help, Belugas.
22:27[~]Belugas still searches
22:28[~]Belugas wonders where the hell that formula came on wiki
22:29|-|glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:31<@Belugas>april 2007
22:32<@Belugas>zojj
22:32<alphax>hehe
22:33<alphax>is it a document error?
22:34<@Belugas>engines.h:348 , but it's nt that either
22:34<@Belugas>i do not know alphax
22:34<@Belugas>i really am clueless about acceleration code
22:35<@Belugas>but a least, if ever i see a zojj comeing in, i will have seom questions to ask ;)
22:35<alphax>haha
22:37<@Belugas>train_cmd.cpp:399 ?
22:37<@Belugas>35 for friction?
22:38|-|ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-163-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:40[~]Belugas gives up
22:40<@Belugas>too tired
22:40<Gonozal_VIII>oh time... train.. got to go
22:40<@Belugas>good night for those who are under the moon, good dya for those enjoying the sun
22:41<Gonozal_VIII>see you all
22:41<Gonozal_VIII>good night
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22:41<alphax>good day
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 30 00:00:14 2007