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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-01

---Logopened Sat Dec 01 00:00:47 2007
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04:27<hylje>there's a steam loco (and train) coming along with santa today
04:27<hylje>guess which one i'm interested in seeing
04:31<Rubidium>santa!
04:32<hylje>obviously!
04:35<SpComb>http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=644650#p644650 <-- OpenTTD Online (not mine, some random person's browser-based game)
04:35<SpComb>doesn't exist yet, he's just wondering if he could call it that
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06:09<hylje>http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1196115670553.jpg lol wut where to go
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06:19<Eddi|zuHause2>looks like a typical german station to me...
06:20<Eddi|zuHause2>and that's why we need programmable switches
06:20<Eddi|zuHause2>they take the decision from you
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07:41<SpComb>hrmph, the only viewport-drawing function in viewport.h is ViewportDoDraw, DrawViewport and DrawViewportChk aren't exported at all
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07:57<SpComb>http://dev.myottd.net:8119/ <-- now with zoom, although the coordinates aren't fixed
07:59<hylje>SpComb: have you thought about overlaying mobile things on the somewhat stable terrain?
08:00<SpComb>hylje: hmm... you'd need to figure out how to generate images with only the certain sprite on them, and then the number of images also increases
08:00<hylje>i didnt say it'd be simple
08:01<SpComb>one thing that I have considered is somehow making use of OpenTTD's dirty blocks thing to only update images if needed
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08:01<fjb>Moin
08:01<SpComb>although I haven't looked at the code so I don't know how it works
08:01<fjb>!logs
08:01<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
08:02<SpComb>and the terrain isn't even that static, trees change colour/shape/appear/go away, and e.g. the water is animated
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>you could do something like truebrain did, create an image for each tile
08:07<SpComb>does each tile have a dirty/not dirty state?
08:08<SpComb>the trouble with that is that the number of images becomes to high, although perhaps four tiles/image or so would work
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what number of images is considered "high"
08:09<SpComb>the number of requests the browser has to make to my server to update the images, currently it does about twenty of them every two seconds
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09:00<nick>hi
09:00|-|nick changed nick to Hangman
09:00<Hangman>hi
09:00<Gonozal_VIII>hi
09:00<Hangman>i've got an idea for implementing a new feature in 0.6.0
09:02<Hangman>you could make a german language file with real vehicle names, i would be amazed
09:02<Rubidium>you could also make a NewGRF with real vehicle names and load that
09:04<Hangman>yes, but it would be easier for the users just to select it right after downloading, so they don't have so much work with it. maybe some people find it difficult, too.
09:04<Gonozal_VIII>yes, newgrfs rock
09:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11546 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:
09:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix[FS#1496]: If ever the air/heli port is suddenly not available while the "chopper" is descending, just go back into flying.
09:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: The code should have been better written, but in respect of newgrf_port branch, i prefer minimalist intervention
09:05<Rubidium>Hangman: the problem with a german version of real vehicles means doubling the workload of german translators
09:05<Gonozal_VIII>morning belugas
09:06<Rubidium>or such major changes in the string generating stuff that probably the WebTranslator needs to be rewritten partly
09:06<Hangman>oh, i didn't know that
09:07<Gonozal_VIII>also german translation sucks (imho) lots of strings are much too long
09:07<Rubidium>and for both it means quite some time implementing it, which shouldn't be a problem except that the people who know something about the string stuff and especially the WebTranslator have a negative amount of free time
09:07<Hangman>two more things i've found: 1. sometimes, the text of windows is too long, so it isn't displayed
09:08<Hangman>or only the letters on the landscape
09:08<Hangman>know what i mean?
09:08<Gonozal_VIII>that's because in german everything is longer and more complicated
09:09<Rubidium>fixing that requires the translators to fix the length of the text, which apparantly they refuse to do
09:09<Rubidium>or rewriting the whole GUI stuff which takes even more time than the string generating stuff
09:09<Hangman>ok, now 2. after an helicopter started from an oil rig, there is no sound played, or at least very rarely
09:10<Rubidium>without "much" gain
09:10<Rubidium>then some other sound is played I guess
09:10<Rubidium>with a higher priority
09:11<Hangman>i dont think so because there was only playing the midi music and nothing else
09:12<Rubidium>departing from an oil rig is in no way different from departing from any normal airport
09:12<Hangman>this problem exists only on oil rigs, not on airports
09:12<Hangman>believe me
09:14<Hangman>you can check for yourself
09:15<Gonozal_VIII>i am now
09:17<Hangman>oh, and something really important: 3. if your train does transship goods, the game doesn't make a diference between for example wood of Bowtown and wood of Baytown, it just displays it as goods from the station it came from
09:17<Gonozal_VIII>i have the sound everytime
09:17<Rubidium>I have also sound on every take off
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09:17<Gonozal_VIII>that's just the display, there is a difference
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09:18<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: unless he did unload and not transfer
09:18<Hangman>i.e. at Bowtwon station: 200 Wood from Bowtown Forest, then a train comes from Baytown with 100 wood, now: 300 Wood from Baytown
09:18<Rubidium>or he's running < 0.6.0-beta1
09:18<Rubidium>and yes, the display only shows one source
09:18<Hangman>i'm german, someone of you too? then i could explain better
09:19<Rubidium>though it is properly accounted for in >= 0.6.0-beta1
09:19<Gonozal_VIII><-- austrian
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09:35<Eddi|zuHause><Hangman> i.e. at Bowtwon station: 200 Wood from Bowtown Forest, then a train comes from Baytown with 100 wood, now: 300 Wood from Baytown <- this is just a display issue
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>the point of origin is still correctly stored, but only one can be displayed
09:36<Hangman>will this be fixed?
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>not in the near future
09:39<Hangman>4. the ai doesn't know if 90 degree curves are allowed or not, will this be fixed, too?
09:40<Vikthor>Hangman: Probably only with the NoAI
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09:45<Hangman>bye @all
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11:22<fjb>That's why I love to play with the ai: http://www.myimg.de/?img=TropicExpress7Apr20085dcc2.png :-)
11:25<Tefad>the explosions?
11:25<fjb>Yeah. :-)
11:26<Tefad>hehe
11:26<fjb>Don't know how many vehicles got lost at that crossing. :-)
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11:35<Wolf01>hello
11:36<fjb>Hi Wolf01
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11:51<Eddi|zuHause>which station set is that?
11:51<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Is the question about my screenshot?
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>you seen any other screenshots? :p
11:53<fjb>No, but I don't know what else you are seeing. :-)
11:53<fjb>:-P
11:53<fjb>That are the basic platforms and the industrial stations set.
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>hm, which version?
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11:58<fjb>V0.42 05.09.05
11:58<fjb>It is not the industrial stations reneval set.
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12:24<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, that building is from the brick freight stations.
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>aha.
12:25<fjb>Sorry. That happens when you have loaded too mans station grfs...
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13:05<fjb>The ai gave up on that line. :-)
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13:07<Zojj>anyone here using vc++ express 2008
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14:11<ln->http://www.russia.ru/putin/
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14:16<SmatZ>hello
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14:34<Appel>Hi, where can i ask a question and/or report a possible bug?
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>bugs.openttd.org
14:34<Appel>Thanks
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>questions you better ask here, or in the forums
14:35<Appel>Ok
14:36<Appel>I made a scenario in 0.5.3 with 4 cities which are about 50k large. Now I'm a good time further and the city sizes have became smaller.
14:36<Appel>25k t/m 33k in size.
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>so?
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>it does happen that cities shrink
14:37<Appel>I was wondering why the cities became smaller.
14:37<Appel>Will they 'grow back'?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>cities grow faster if you have active stations
14:42<Appel>Okay, thank you for your help :)
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15:29<SmatZ>!help
15:30<fjb>!fire
15:31<Rubidium>where?
15:31<fjb>There!
15:32<Rubidium>I don't see it
15:34<fjb>Oh, it's gone now. :-(
15:34<SmatZ>:D
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15:41<mikl>What is the problem with YouTube links?
15:41<hylje>too much lulz
15:41<mikl>ok, if you say so :)
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15:48<ln->mikl: way too often they are off-topic, and crap, and it's hard to see from the url if it's something you've seen already.
15:49<mikl>ah, I thought it was something security related. The Apple followers have had some security issues... or was that MySpace?
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15:51<Sacro>http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=40391 <- pwned
15:52<ln->instead of youtube, have a look at http://www.russia.ru/putin/
15:53<ben_goodger>cruel
15:53<ben_goodger>and ln-, sod off
15:55<ln->wtf does "sod off" mean anyway, must be some anglish
15:55<SmatZ>ln- that video is great
15:55<ln->just as a precaution, i take that as an insult.
15:55<ln->SmatZ: yeah, it is.. :)
15:56<ben_goodger>please do, and furthermore please stop spamming us with links to that idiot's web page
15:56<ln->ben_goodger: wtf is your problem?
15:57|-|HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i577B65E5.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:57<ben_goodger>your spam
15:58<fjb>The flash plugins allways had security issues, on evere platform.
15:58<SmatZ>is there still propagnande in the USA?
15:58<ben_goodger>I don't know what you hope to achieve
15:58<SmatZ>*a
15:58<ben_goodger>SmatZ: they call it an "election campaign" :)
15:58<ln->ben_goodger: stfu, ok?
15:59<ben_goodger>no, you stfu
15:59[~]Rubidium has a better idea: both shut up?
16:00<ben_goodger>try spamming another room; doing it here is not achieving anything except making me slightly more annoyed
16:00|-|Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N954P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
16:02<ln->Rubidium: maybe he could be kickbanned so he wouldn't have to suffer any spam anymore?
16:02<ln->additional note: kicking me doesn't help his situation.
16:03<+glx>ln-: really?
16:05<ln->really.
16:08<hylje>YA RLY!
16:11<ben_goodger>no wai
16:14<ln->ben_goodger: what do you do for living?
16:14|-|Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N954P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:15<hylje>troll the internet
16:15|-|Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:16<ben_goodger>yep, I'm a professional troll. I spend my days thinking of more and more irritating ways to make people annoyed enough to reply to asinine comments, and this is then monetised by putting google ads in my /. signature
16:17<ben_goodger>the process is actually quite clever, and of course I receive attention while I'm at it
16:20|-|Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has joined #openttd
16:20<ben_goodger>during my spare time, I perform cruel experiments on various pathfinding engines and make yearly quantitative estimates at how close to turing-completeness openttd's signalling/orders systems are
16:20|-|SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:22<hylje>thats enlightening
16:22<ben_goodger>indeed so
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16:34|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
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16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11547 /trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Add: signal selection GUI for the ones that really like to use that over CTRL. Patch by BigBB.
16:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11548 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD Graphics] -Add: sprite added in r11547 (signal gui).
16:41|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:45<hylje>yay!
16:46<LordAzamath>that means...YAY!!!!
16:46|-|SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
16:46<SmatZ>hello
16:47<LordAzamath>..and today evening I posted a reply to the signal selection gui for it to have a Flyspray task, so it would be included sooner :D
16:47<ln->Bjarni: ain't this great propaganda:
16:47<SmatZ>sorry, I had "micro-sec" blackout, but computers rebooted into new kernel etc...
16:48<Rubidium>appologizing for something you can't really do much about ;)
16:48<LordAzamath>@smatz - an update to desktop-kernel?
16:49[~]LordAzamath did this
16:49<ln->SmatZ: http://www.apcc.com/index.cfm?ISOCountryCode=cz
16:49<SmatZ>I could connect back earlier, but I had to get all things back into work :)
16:49<@Bjarni>another useless highlight...
16:49<Rubidium>ln-: if only those things would be 100% reliable
16:49<SmatZ>LordAzamath: the kernel was ready waiting for next reboot,but it came really unexpected
16:49<@Bjarni>damn.... can't use non-latin chars as nick :s
16:50<LordAzamath>I have to reboot too. It just finished updating
16:50<@Bjarni>--- かみ :Erroneous Nickname
16:50<SmatZ>:)
16:50<LordAzamath>humm:)
16:50<@Bjarni>that would have worked nice to prevent highlights
16:50<SmatZ>^_^
16:50<ln->"plně důvěřují produktům, specialistům a službám poskytovaným APC a MGE. V současné době je zde 12 0000 našich zaměstnanců, kteří jsou připraveni kdykoli" sounds reliable to me.
16:50<ln->Rubidium: 99% is better than 0%
16:50<SmatZ>ln-: thanks, I was thinking about it many times :)
16:51<LordAzamath>but sounds like a piece of weird language to others :D
16:51<SmatZ>I should really realize my thoughts
16:51<Rubidium>ln-: until you find out that your 230 V UPS is supplying > 300 V to a computer instead of 230 V
16:51<@Bjarni>looks like a series of severe typos to me
16:51<ln->Rubidium: and how common is that?
16:52<Rubidium>not very common, but still no 100% ;)
16:52<@Bjarni>oh we are talking about UPS
16:52<ln->SmatZ: the nice thing about UPSes is that they don't get obsolete like other computer hardware.
16:53<@Bjarni>yeah
16:53<Rubidium>ln-: they do, or at least their battery packs
16:53<SmatZ>ln-: do not they need new bateries every two years or so?
16:53<Vikthor>Bjarni: Actually ln- cut some parts of the text from his quote
16:53<@Bjarni>they can live with an old battery until it's worn out even when you replace your computer
16:54<Rubidium>another 'drawback' of UPSes is that they 'get' in trouble when the incoming trouble gets below a certain threshold
16:54<ln->SmatZ: i've got the original battery in this UPS of mine that i bought in 1999.
16:54<SmatZ>there are rarely blackouts, but sometimes (once in ~3 months, often caused by storms and snow) there is a 1-sec blackout... enough for most computers to reboot
16:54<SmatZ>ln-: thanks, maybe I should give it a try
16:55<+glx>less than 1 sec is enough for my PC to shutdown
16:55<Rubidium>for example when it gets below 215 V it starts 'emptying' it's batteries to keep 230 V and that will eventually drain the batteries which causes the UPS to shut down
16:55<SmatZ>glx: yes... it is just "blick" :)
16:55<Rubidium>better use hardware that can stand blackouts without UPS ;)
16:56<ln->Rubidium: the threshold for minimum voltage is adjustable even in this cheapish UPS of mine.
16:58<ln->and i don't think operating a computer with too low voltage is good for its health.
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17:01<@Bjarni>my UPS already saved my computer from potential bad stuff more than once
17:01<@Bjarni>it just needs to save a computer once to pay back the full costs of the UPS itself
17:01<@Bjarni>so it was a good investment :)
17:02|-|Greyscale [~Greyscale@host81-158-73-177.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
17:02<@Bjarni><Rubidium> for example when it gets below 215 V it starts 'emptying' it's batteries to keep 230 V and that will eventually drain the batteries which causes the UPS to shut down <-- usually power drops have been for such a short time that the UPS battery were strong enough to stay on until power returned
17:03<ln->there was a case here some years ago that during some electric network maintenance, some limited area was feeded with overvoltage for some time.
17:03<@Bjarni>we lost the pump in our furnace due to voltage peaks generated from when the wind made the power cables hit each other
17:03<ln->i didn't live in this building back then, so i didn't get to test my ups for that, but people reported some hardware being broken.
17:04<@Bjarni>an electric pump is something that usually survives stuff like that
17:04|-|stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd
17:04<@Bjarni>ln-: at least it's a clear case of who made the mistake
17:05<@Bjarni>insurance could help you in a case like that
17:05<@Bjarni>if the power company wouldn't compensate you
17:05<@Bjarni>actually I'm more concerned with data security than hardware failures
17:06<@Bjarni>you can get new hardware but not your personal data if the drive is lost due to high voltage
17:06<Rubidium>Bjarni: for that you make something called 'backup'
17:07<Rubidium>preferably off-site backups
17:07<ln->Rubidium: preferably to another hard drive that is connected to the same power.
17:07<Tefad>pfff
17:08<Tefad>encrypt all your important crap it throw it into your gmail and yahoo email accounts
17:08<Tefad>fat chance of both of them dying at once.
17:08<Rubidium>and where do you store the encryption key?
17:09<ln->Tefad: making backups had better be a fully automated process, or otherwise people don't remember/bother to do it often enough.
17:16<fjb>Rubidium: DVD-RAM + Diskette + USB-Drive + Printing it as an ASCII dump. :-)
17:18<Rubidium>fjb: and where do you store those?
17:18<+glx>in the bank :)
17:20<fjb>At different places, at home, a the bank etc...
17:20<Tefad>relative's place
17:21[~]fjb encrypts every backup.
17:21<Tefad>I'M A GENIUS IN FRAAAAANCEEE
17:21<LordAzamath>good night
17:21[~]Rubidium can't be bothered by encryption ;)
17:21|-|LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org]
17:21<Rubidium>nor compression
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17:22<@Bjarni><Rubidium> Bjarni: for that you make something called 'backup' <-- even when you do backups, you don't do it every 5th minute so if shit happens then you will lose something anyway
17:22<fjb>Rubidium doesn't do backups? :-)
17:22<Tefad>i can't think of anything on my computer i couldn't live without
17:22<Rubidium>I do, well... technically maybe not
17:22<Tefad>i mean, there are some interesting histories of my overall computer experience
17:22<@Bjarni>technically I hope we can all live without computers
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17:23<Rubidium>everything that is important gets committed into SVN
17:23<@Bjarni>but we would prefer to have our Email archive and stuff
17:23<Tefad>since 1995 i've had a continual fat16 (upgraded to fat32) file system going
17:23<Rubidium>and that gets immediatelly duplicated to several off-site locations
17:23<Rubidium>> 200 km apart
17:23<Tefad>(various disks, formatted, copied, etc.. but i still have my win3.1->win95 image somewhere)
17:26|-|MindlessTux [~Brian_Dav@r75-110-56-184.gvllcmtc01.gnvlnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #openttd
17:27[~]Bjarni wonders if MindlessTux is a windows user in disguise
17:27<MindlessTux>only when I dont feel like sitting down at the desk
17:28<@Bjarni>you are a standing windows user?
17:28<MindlessTux>no, laptop, on the couch
17:28<MindlessTux>:P
17:29<hylje>i run linux on my lappies
17:29<@Bjarni>well... with the price of windows you might not be able to afford a chair
17:29<MindlessTux>meh, have not had the time to dual boot this one yet
17:30<MindlessTux>very true
17:30<hylje>dualbooting is for wussies
17:30<@Bjarni>I have dualboot
17:30<hylje>fuzzy wuzzy
17:30<@Bjarni>because.... well I wanted to try it
17:30<@Bjarni>to make it fun I don't use it :P
17:31<@Bjarni>and I only did it because MS gave me windows for free
17:31<MindlessTux>exactly
17:31<MindlessTux>:P
17:32[~]Rubidium has kinda quad boot
17:32<@Bjarni>for some reason MS decided to give a whole lot of students windows XP for free
17:32<hylje>pervert
17:32<hylje>!
17:32<hylje>Bjarni: yarrr
17:32<@Bjarni>so I got a copy with CD key and everything without needing it
17:32<@Bjarni>half a year later I decided to try dual booting
17:32<Tefad>Bjarni: to hook them into MS products? that's their usual reason
17:33<@Bjarni>yeah
17:33<@Bjarni>it didn't work on me though
17:33<Tefad>same tactic most religions rely on
17:33<@Bjarni>windows is crappy and limited compared to what I can do in OSX
17:33<Rubidium>the more MS stuff I use the less I like it
17:33<Tefad>OSX makes me feel contrained
17:33<@Bjarni>why?
17:34<Tefad>because you have to do things the "mac way"
17:34<Rubidium>MS really has done a very GOOD job in making everything sooooo sloooooooooow
17:34<@Bjarni>the mono buttoned mouse died ages ago
17:34<Tefad>i think third parties make an OS slow ..
17:34<Tefad>ever install a virus scanner? ; )
17:34<@Bjarni>except on MacBooks for some odd reason
17:35<Tefad>because apple is still too afraid to tell users to right click.
17:35<Tefad>right.. which one is the right button? OHNOES *head explodes*
17:35<Rubidium>Tefad: a help file needing to search for 5+ seconds is not useful
17:35<@Bjarni>I noticed a limitation in mighty mouse though... you can't click left and right at the same time o_O
17:35<Rubidium>an ASP site that is dead slow (name me one that is actually fast)
17:35<Tefad>Bjarni: that's due to the sensors that detect your finger positions
17:36<Rubidium>Windows Update that takes several minutes to 'determine' which patches you can install
17:36<Rubidium>Installing/deinstalling an application takes ages
17:36<@Bjarni>I realise why but that's no good when the docs said "click both mouse buttons at the same time"
17:36<Tefad>when you click, there's only one mechanical switch.. the hardware isn't able to cope when both of your fingers on "click position" or whatever
17:36<ln->Bjarni: and you cannot right-click unless you lift your finger from the left button.
17:36<@Bjarni>luckily it works with more or less all USB mice
17:36<Tefad>hehe.
17:36<Rubidium>Removing 'default' Windows stuff requires the Windows CD
17:37<Sacro>http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4980533&x=y <- possibly nsfw, depending on imagination
17:37<Tefad>not work safe man
17:37<Rubidium>hmm... what other things could I complain about related to MS products?
17:37<Tefad>imagination ??
17:37<Tefad>thems female parts .
17:37|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [NOT WORK SAFE]
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17:38<Sacro>Bjarni: i did put nsfw at the end
17:38<Tefad>possibly? thems serious parts there.
17:38<@Bjarni>but then people should know what you mean by random chars
17:38<@Bjarni>besides Sacro just showed all of us that he is a pervert
17:39<ln->pervert in what way?
17:39<Tefad>drivers in close source OSs are nearly always problematic.
17:39<Tefad>not that open source are painfree (or even available)
17:39<@Bjarni><ln-> pervert in what way? <-- linking female reproduction organs with something that's meant to be eaten
17:39<Tefad>i install a usb scanner driver in OS X.. it freaks out when i try to use it and i get the beachball of death
17:39<Tefad>and then it refuses to shut down.
17:40<Sacro>Bjarni: whats wrong with eating it?
17:40<Tefad>and i have no idea what magical key sequence to use to abort in OS X
17:40<@Bjarni>Sacro: HENTAI!!!
17:40<Sacro>:o
17:40<Tefad>the one for windows is blatantly obvious.. part of pop culture
17:40<ln->Bjarni: something as perverted as talking about "melons"?
17:41<@Bjarni>Tefad: I learned something about OSX.... just plug in the hardware and it works. Forget about drivers as the driver that comes with the hardware doesn't work but the OS itself can figure out how to use it anyway
17:41<Tefad>not the scanner i had
17:41<@Bjarni>that's not good
17:41<Tefad>nope, it wasn't
17:41<Rubidium>that's probably a 'winscanner' (like 'winmodem')
17:41<Tefad>it installed some scanner manager thing and fubard the OS essentially
17:41<Tefad>it works in linux fine actually
17:42<Tefad>but i don't think it did at the time i was playing around with it
17:42<@Bjarni>I just plugged in a more or less random scanner and it just worked without any drivers or software. The default stuff in OSX took care of everything
17:42<Tefad>so i had an old mac and decided to dick around with OS X on it.
17:42<Tefad>some linux distros come like that out of the box (all conceivable drivers built in)
17:43<hylje>not built in, but available
17:43<hylje>footprint is important
17:43<Tefad>built into the installation.
17:43<Tefad>(not kernel)
17:43<Tefad>remember the days of OS 9 or Win98 when you plug in a USB disk?
17:43<Tefad>OMG What's this? a new device? awesome! wtf is it?!
17:44<Tefad>xp fixed that.. but not usb 2.0.. i think sp1 or sp2 resolved the usb2 thing
17:44<@Bjarni>windows still does that to my USB flash disk :s
17:44<Tefad>hah nice.
17:44<@Bjarni>only the first time for every computer though
17:44<Tefad>i've never had a generic usb device do anything but work in linux
17:44<Rubidium>Windows and supporting something 'new'... makes me laugh
17:44<Rubidium>like Windows XP not supporting SATA
17:45<Tefad>even some craptastic pocket camera
17:45<Tefad>while it wasn't a UMS device, after i installed camera-accessing software, it worked fine
17:45<Tefad>daylight savings time seriously needs to go
17:46<@Bjarni>I only had one issue with OSX and hardware that it didn't officially support. A DVD drive that made a kernel panic when it started a disc from sleep
17:46<@Bjarni>disallowing the drive to go to sleep fixed it though
17:47<Tefad>stupid US just lengthened DST.
17:47<Rubidium>Tefad: maybe they should lengthen it a little more (few months)
17:47<Tefad>i'd rather see it abolished
17:47<@Bjarni><Tefad> daylight savings time seriously needs to go <-- some Japanese politicians decided to try it so now they have two "test cities" who uses it while the rest of the country don't
17:48<Tefad>try it?!
17:48<Tefad>NOES
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17:48<Tefad>it's only barely useful for farmers or something
17:48<Rubidium>Bjarni: reminds me of totally locking a Mac by simply 'playing' with some screensavers
17:48<@Bjarni><Tefad> i'd rather see it abolished <-- it actually gets the intended job done (using the hours where the sun is up more efficiently) but it has so many side effects
17:49<Tefad>i don't see how
17:49<Tefad>just wake up earlier or open your stores earlier
17:49<Tefad>done!
17:49<@Bjarni>the idea is that you get up an hour earlier when the sun gets up earlier
17:49<Tefad>^
17:49<Tefad>there are two ways to abolish DST
17:50<Tefad>ignore DST altogether
17:50<@Bjarni>that's the idea but the side effects is like the milk truck shows up at the farm an hour earlier and then the cows aren't ready to be milked and stuff
17:50<Tefad>OR, never set your clocks back to standard time.
17:50<@Bjarni>they even use hormones to get the cows to be milked an hour earlier o_O
17:50<@Bjarni>farmers hates changing the clock... because the internal clock in the animals don't change
17:50<Tefad>there shouldn't be a binary change.
17:51<@Bjarni>you mean we should reset the clock at 12:00 every say
17:51<Tefad>people need to gradually change their schedules over time.
17:51<@Bjarni>when the sun is at max?
17:51<Tefad>what i'm saying has nothing to do with modifying clocks.
17:51<Tefad>modify your schedule independent of time
17:52<@Bjarni>how about... just using UTC ± whatever fits your country and then stick to it
17:52<Tefad>if not on a dailly basis, monthly.
17:52<Tefad>Bjarni: what i'm saying works on any method of time keeping
17:52<Tefad>you could count grains of sand in an hourglass
17:52<Tefad>whatever floats your boat.
17:52<Rubidium>how about 'just' using UTC ;)
17:52<Tefad>just change your schedule around some constant time.
17:53<@Bjarni>sand don't float :P
17:53<Tefad>Bjarni: depends on what you set it on.
17:53<Tefad>i'm going out on a limb, but i'd think it floats on mercury
17:54<@Bjarni><Rubidium> how about 'just' using UTC ;) <-- no... because then new years eve is less fun.... USA becomes last year once a year and we know that it will happen
17:54<@Bjarni>Tefad: you want a boat to float on mercury?
17:54<Rubidium>Bjarni: it's 'more' fun as in the US they can't see the fireworks as it is still light outside ;)
17:54<Tefad>hell pool balls float on mercury.
17:54<Tefad>billard
17:54<@Bjarni>Rubidium: good point :D
17:55[~]Bjarni got hit by a pool ball last week
17:55<Tefad>ouch
17:55<@Bjarni>like 10 meters away from the table
17:55<@Bjarni>I didn't see how this guy was shooting but I'm pretty sure it's not the way to do it
17:56<@Bjarni>didn't hurt though... the floor took the impact before it continued on to me
17:56<@Bjarni>but... I was a bit surprised
17:56<@Bjarni>and then I flamed the shooting guy for not taking care of our pool table
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17:59<Tefad>heh
18:01<@Bjarni>well... technically it's not my table but I do know the owners
18:01<@Bjarni>which is close enough for me
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18:05[~]Bjarni is surprised how easy it is to kill a channel
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18:05<@Bjarni>I just said that I got shot and then nobody says anything anymore
18:05<@Bjarni>except ouch
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18:19[~]Sacro fancies doing some OpenTTD development
18:20[~]Bjarni feels scared
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18:21<@Bjarni>Sacro: wtf are you doing?
18:22<Sacro>Bjarni: well...
18:22<Sacro>*cough*
18:24<@Bjarni>signals in tunnels?
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18:36<Tefad>Din moder är en skinka och din fader luktar fläder
18:37<Gonozal_VIII>?
18:37<Tefad>exactly.
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18:51<Gonozal_VIII>ha, i found out what language it is and could translate everything except the last word
18:51<ln->could it be the same as leder.. (checking)
18:52<ln->unknown
18:53<ln->finland har nordens billigaste tv-avgift.
18:54<Gonozal_VIII>delicate country has north uniting cheapest TV charge ^^
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>that's rofl
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>-ish
18:58<Gonozal_VIII>and back: det delikat landet har nord att förena den mest billiga TVladdningen
19:01<Wolf01>'night
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19:01<Gonozal_VIII>night
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19:08<Tefad>btw you fail at swedish.
19:08<Tefad>oh, n/m
19:08<Gonozal_VIII>webtranslator :-)
19:09<Tefad>the last word is "elderberries"
19:09<Gonozal_VIII>i kept on feeding the output back in until it stopped changing... that's the result: det delikat landet har norden, det förenar mest, det är det billiga razzian visartavlor. visionrapport
19:10<Gonozal_VIII>does that make any sense?
19:13<@Bjarni>no
19:14<Tefad>Din moder är en skinka och din fader luktar fläder!!@*&#
19:14<Sacro>:o
19:14<@Bjarni>that makes no sense either but on a completely different level
19:14<Tefad>sure it does
19:15<Tefad>i'm insulting your parents.
19:15<@Bjarni>I mean it's supposed to be an insult
19:15<@Bjarni>but it's a weird one
19:15<Tefad>it's monty python
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>the elderberries don't make sense
19:15<Tefad>durrr
19:15<Tefad>Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!
19:15<Sacro>your mother is a hamster...
19:15<Sacro>damn it ><
19:16<Tefad>see someone knows what's up.
19:16<@Bjarni>ohh that one
19:16<Tefad>not as familiar when in swedish is it
19:16<@Bjarni>what a poor translation :P
19:16<Tefad>how so?
19:16<Tefad>improve it.
19:16<@Bjarni>nahh
19:16<Gonozal_VIII>ni!
19:17<Tefad>is the elderberries part at least correct?
19:17<@Bjarni>improving Swedish is like optimising windows though open source kernels
19:17<Tefad>.. reactos anyone?
19:19[~]Bjarni had Swedish at school
19:19<Tefad>ah
19:19<Tefad>i forget your nationality
19:19<Tefad>have you moved recently?
19:19<@Bjarni>I ended up discussing the age of a Swedish short story with the teacher
19:19<Gonozal_VIII> FRENCH GUARD: I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
19:20<@Bjarni>she dated it to the 19th century
19:20<@Bjarni>I said that it could be the 20th century as well
19:20<Tefad>so i hosed the tense.
19:20<@Bjarni>we both based it on the same thing :D
19:20<@Bjarni>the train had brakemen on the cars
19:20<@Bjarni>Sweden didn't start using air brakes until 1920
19:21<@Bjarni><Tefad> i forget your nationality <-- the saw states that everybody in Denmark should learn Swedish and Norwegian in school
19:22<@Bjarni>but I was able to read it even before we got that far in school
19:22<@Bjarni>Duck Tales was in Swedish
19:22<@Bjarni>and stuff
19:22<@Bjarni>today I still have more Swedish than Danish TV channels
19:23<@Bjarni>for some odd reason
19:23<@Bjarni>but great news... I fixed my TV antenna today
19:23<@Bjarni>so now I have Danish TV channels again
19:23<Tefad>heh.
19:24<+glx><@Bjarni> <Tefad> i forget your nationality <-- the saw states that everybody in Denmark should learn Swedish and Norwegian in school <-- the saw ?
19:24<@Bjarni>kind of odd when the Danish channels died and the Swedish ones stayed when the actual error wasn't the antenna itself but the cable between the antenna and the TV
19:24<@Bjarni>s/saw/law
19:25<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.replix.de/shop/images/products/main/filmrepliken/more/saw-puppe.jpg <-- that guy
19:25<@Bjarni>wtf
19:25<@Bjarni>nobody noticed until now???
19:25<Tefad>i did
19:25<@Bjarni>do you even read what I write????
19:25<Tefad>just just read around it
19:25<@Bjarni>(I don't) :P
19:25<Gonozal_VIII>sometimes
19:25<Tefad>obviously
19:26<@Bjarni>but did you understand that sentence even with the wrong word in it?
19:27<Gonozal_VIII>i assumed that was some kind of school ministry
19:29<@Bjarni>heh
19:29<@Bjarni>in a way it is
19:29<@Bjarni>the laws about our school system usually starts on some desk in the ministry of education
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19:35<ln->anyone been to San Francisco?
19:37<Sacro>is Patric Stout Truelight?
19:38<Rubidium>ln-: yes
19:38<ln->Rubidium: you?
19:39<Rubidium>yes
19:39<ln->is it a good place to visit?
19:40<Rubidium>depends on what you're searching for
19:41<Sacro>gay man love!
19:41<ln->searching for not getting arrested or shot.
19:42<ln->that must be the #1 priority if planning a trip to the US and A.
19:43<Rubidium>then SF is a nice place
19:43<Gonozal_VIII>only 1 out of 5 tourists gets shot there
19:43<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
19:44<Rubidium>yeah right
19:44<ln->also SF would not be terribly far away from things such as Grand Canyon.
19:45<Rubidium>you could drive to there within 24 hours
19:45<Rubidium>but I'm not talking about comfortable and such
19:46<ln->we've sort of being planning a 1+ week trip to the west coast, including a car rental.
19:47<Gonozal_VIII>you can make some cable car grfs while you're there ;-)
19:48<ln->someone said a car rental for 2 weeks costs only around ~$500 in the US.
19:48<Rubidium>ln-: it's a 12 hour drive
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19:49<Rubidium>putin! ;)
19:49<ln->ok.. doesn't make sense to do it in one day, but in two days it's quite possible
19:50<ln->putin, horshii, horoshii, horoshii!
19:50<Gonozal_VIII>wtf?
19:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11549 /extra/ottd_grf/split/openttdgui.nfo: -Fix (r11548): Twisted X and Y sizes
19:50<SpComb>Twisted!
19:51<SpComb>it's a nice framework
19:52<ln->Gonozal_VIII: you're against him?!?
19:53<Rubidium>ln-, a 'free' tip: the bridges near San Francisco are toll bridges, but you only have to pay when you go towards San Francisco (but this only matters when you plan to go north or directly east of San Francisco
19:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11550 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r11547): Updated the data files regarding to r11549
19:53<ln->Rubidium: ok, noted.
19:54<ln->now i only need to convince >0 people to join the trip.
19:55<ln->it's a pity that the west coast flights are somewhat more expensive than east coast.
19:56<Rubidium>when do you intend to go?
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19:56<Gonozal_VIII>google: Meinten Sie: putin, yoshii, hiroshi, hiroshi!
19:57<ln->at some point between january..april.
19:57<ln->hopefully.
19:58<ln->or if not, then i'll stay home and play OTTD.
19:58<Gonozal_VIII>good idea :-)
19:58<ln->Gonozal_VIII: were you here when http://www.russia.ru/putin/ was pasted.. if not, there it is.
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>i wasn't
20:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11551 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window.h):
20:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Introduction of widget control members on struct Window. These "new" members have the exact same functionalities as their pure functions "genitors"
20:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Ex: "Window::SetWidgetLoweredState(byte widget_index, bool lowered_stat)" is the member corresponding to "SetWindowWidgetLoweredState(Window *w, byte widget_index, bool lowered_stat)"
20:02<Gonozal_VIII>... that's russian...
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20:04<@Belugas>advice and comment is aimed at patchers and devs.
20:04<@Belugas>are you among one of these,Gonozal_VIII?
20:04<@Belugas>oups...
20:04<@Belugas>sorry
20:04<@Belugas>forget me
20:04<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
20:05<Sacro>Belugas: genitors is not a good term :p
20:05<Sacro>especially for asians...
20:05<ln->the music is by Энио Морриконе (Enio Morrikone), though
20:06<Gonozal_VIII>music?
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20:06<ln->on the video
20:06<ln->you didn't hear music?
20:06<Gonozal_VIII>there is no music?
20:06<@Belugas>Sacro, sorry. next time, i'll try to make it better
20:06<Gonozal_VIII>just talking...
20:06<@Belugas>sugestions?
20:06<Sacro>Belugas: nothing that sounds like genitals :p
20:06<ln->Gonozal_VIII: ohh, you missed 37.2% of the fun.
20:07<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm it loads a third video...
20:07<Gonozal_VIII>another commercial
20:09<Gonozal_VIII>one of them said: "scheiße"... i could understand that... but nothing of the rest.. and no music at all there
20:10<Gonozal_VIII>another guy talking...
20:11<ln->Gonozal_VIII: i wonder which video of them have you seen then...
20:11<ln->i'm watching the third, with indeed "scheiße" being said in it.
20:11<ln->but surely the first one about putin has music.
20:13<Gonozal_VIII>you mean that western theme?
20:14<ln->exactly.
20:14<Gonozal_VIII>"Das Lied vom Tod"
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20:16<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErtRKdpncyk <-- that should be it
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20:17<Gonozal_VIII>or not..
20:21<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: check the topic ;)
20:21<+glx>(UTF-8 and no youtube)
20:21<Gonozal_VIII>:-/
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20:28<ln->has anyone dared to propose renewing the french writing?
20:28<ln->i.e. cutting off the 5 letters per word that are not pronounced anyway.
20:29<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
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20:42<+glx>ln-: which one?
20:51<ln->you must admit there are a lot of letters in french words that have not been pronounced in many hundreds of years.
20:51<ln->depends on the word of course.
20:54<Sacro>ma grandmere est flombeur
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20:55<Gonozal_VIII>your grandmother is burning?
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20:56[~]glx doesn't know flombeur
20:56<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: yes, my french is lacking
20:58<ln->qu'est ce que -- i don't remember what this means exactly, but a lot unused letters in it.
20:58<Sacro>errr
20:58<Sacro>what is?
20:59<Gonozal_VIII>looks like you were cleaning the keyboard
20:59<Sacro>i think
20:59<+glx>ln-: not really unused
21:00<ln->isn't it pronounced like /ˈkeskə ˈseː/
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21:00<+glx>ˈkeskə
21:01<ln->ah, true, i was imagining something extra to the end.
21:02<+glx>like "qu'est-ce que c'est?" ;)
21:02<ln->something like that :)
21:03<ln->that could be simply written as "qesqø se", much shorter :)
21:04<+glx>totally unreadable ;)
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21:05<ln->do i remember correctly that the french ortography approximates the way french was spoken on the 13th century, or so?
21:06<+glx>many things come from latin and greek
21:10<ln->did all the russians leave the channel already?
21:10<Gonozal_VIII>there were russians?
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22:30<Tefad>what it is that it is!
22:30<Tefad>aka "what's this"
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 02 00:00:21 2007