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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-04

---Logopened Tue Dec 04 00:00:16 2007
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01:05<jthill>re 11565: assuming FOR_EACH_SET_BIT is a good idea at all, wouldn't just changing it to `j = p->attr&0x2f;` have been better?
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01:12<jthill>gak nevermind. I guess bitfields would have been unportable or something.
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02:14<Celestar>morning
02:14<Gonozal_VIII>morning
02:16<Celestar>./googleearth-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libldap-2.3.so.0: undefined symbol: SSL_CTX_set_info_callback
02:16<Celestar>WTF?
02:17<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
02:17<Celestar>ldap?!
02:17<Rubidium>morning Celestar
02:17<Celestar>good mornign Rubidium. Did you get my hopelessly outdated patch?
02:18<Rubidium>yes
02:18<Celestar>good :)
02:18<Rubidium>I've applied it too, but when that was finally done properly it was already too late to do testing
02:18<Rubidium>I've already had too little sleep
02:19<Celestar>welcome to the club :(
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03:10<Gekz>pfft
03:10<Gekz>I haven't slept since the beginning of the epoch.
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03:18<blathijs>Gekz: january 1st 1970?
03:18<Gekz>yes
03:19<blathijs>poor you
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03:55<BiA|pavel-css>hi
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04:20<Ammler>good morning guys, how should I check if the fallowing assert already fixed? (road_map.h:22: RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD)' failed.)
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04:35<Rubidium>Ammler: which version of OTTD?
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04:43<Ammler>Rubidium: beta
04:43<Ammler>we have the assert without interacting...
04:44<Ammler>someone is trying to check it with a trunk
04:45<Rubidium>sounds like an already solved issue
04:46<Ammler>but its right, the 0.6 release will still be based on trunk?
04:46<Ammler>as long as there is no new branch?
04:48<Ammler>would make more sense to update the coop server to current nightly then
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05:04<Rubidium>Ammler: yes, yes, yes
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05:25<Celestar>wee hee mail server is dead :S
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05:41<Ammler>Rubidium: thanks :)
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06:12<BiA|pavel-css>hi
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10:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11567 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1512] (r11011): break the chain before moving a vehicle after another in the same chain
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11:15<SmatZ>hello ottders :)
11:16<SmatZ>everytime I open my notebook at lecture, everybody around says, "whoo I played TTD a lot, now I see the game is not dead, I will play it again" :)
11:17<hylje>haa
11:18<Sacro>SmatZ: hehe, I get that too
11:18<BiA|pavel-css>good games are known everywhere :)
11:19<SmatZ>:)
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11:36<Gege>god day
11:37<Gege>need me someone who has experienced in openttd remoted servers. if someone can help me plz send a prv message
11:48<blathijs>Gege: You're better off explaining your problem here, I think
11:48[~]blathijs is afk
12:03|-|Worldbeing [~chatzilla@timewarp.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd
12:04<Worldbeing>Aha! The magical and mystical world of #openttd!
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12:10<@Belugas>hey Worldbeing
12:10<Worldbeing>Hey
12:10<@Belugas>Gege, don't be shy, tell us your problem/question
12:11<Gege>sorry im not shy only afk
12:12<@Belugas>ok :)
12:12<Gege>and i want to steal only one (remote server experienced) men time
12:12<Gege>not the all community with my bad english
12:12<Gege>:)
12:13<@Belugas>well... if one cannot help, the others might
12:13<+glx>but you may get a faster reply if you ask everybody :)
12:13<Gege>i have time:) and i ask the question what i want before but too many answers to me to choose the best
12:14<Gege>and many fake joke:)
12:15<Gege>i dont know what the better way to use my difficulty settings on the remoted server
12:15<Gege>i know some way
12:15<Gege>but every way need a file transfer
12:15<Gege>need to send my openttd.cfg or need to send my saved map
12:16<Gege>and i dont like this way
12:16<Gege>because the server are not mine
12:16<+glx>it's the only way
12:16|-|lugo [~lugo@p4FD5EF68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:17<Sacro>to blast off and nuke it from orbit?
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12:20<Gege>i cant load my savegames from home in the server
12:21<Gege>rcon <rconpw> "load myip::\c:\destination\map.sav"
12:21<Gege>or some other way?
12:21<Sacro>hmm, where can you put grfs
12:22<Sacro>~/.openttd/data doesn't seem to work
12:22<LeviathNL>should work :s
12:22<+glx>Gege: the server can only load local files
12:23<Gege>:(
12:23<Sacro>it doesn't work D:
12:24<Gege>not my day:S
12:24<+glx>Sacro: check rights
12:24<Sacro>glx: ben:users, 755 for folders, 644 for files
12:24<+glx>compiled yourself?
12:25<Sacro>the binary? no
12:25<Sacro>tis from the repo
12:25<Sacro>well
12:25<Sacro>i wrote the PKGBUILD
12:25<Sacro>so technically, in a round about way, i did
12:26<+glx>maybe --personal-dir flag is not properly set
12:26<Sacro>lets go have a look
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12:26<Sacro>make PREFIX=/usr BINARY_DIR=/bin ICON_DIR=/share/pixmaps DATA_DIR=/share/openttd PERSONAL_DIR=/.openttd USE_HOMEDIR=1 INSTALL=1
12:27<+glx>use configure instead
12:27<Gege>thats interesting but i dont understand:) im too noob for this:D
12:27<Sacro>glx: 0.5.3 doesn't have configure
12:28<Gege>thats the 0.5.6 ver
12:28<+glx>0.5.6 doesn't exist Gege )
12:29<Sacro>any more ideas?
12:29<+glx>Sacro: I don't know then (windows doesn't have personal_dir in 0.5)
12:29<Sacro>tis not windows
12:29<Sacro>tislinux
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12:30<Gege>sob i use xp but the serv run debian
12:30<Gege>some afk
12:30<+glx>Gege: you need a ssh access to the server
12:30|-|Gege changed nick to gegeafk
12:31<gegeafk>2 problem my english are bad and i dont know what is ssh acces
12:31<+glx>remote access
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12:31<Sacro>who else talks hungarian?
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12:32<Wolf01>hello
12:33<gege>good day
12:33<Sacro>bonjourno
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12:47<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=645503#p645503 how cute... he remembered about a question i asked 3 years ago
12:48<hylje>chances are he went around browsing the later pages of the forum archives
12:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11568 /trunk/src/window.h: -Codechange: Use bit shifts instead of values for flags. It helps readability a little bit.
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13:04<LeviathNL>Wolf01, what brickland part are you currently working on?
13:05<Wolf01>black roads on soil
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13:08<LeviathNL>when are these used?
13:08<Wolf01>when you place a new road
13:08<SmatZ>lol @ [18:47:59] <Wolf01> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=645503#p645503 how cute... he remembered about a question i asked 3 years ago
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13:10<fjb>Moin
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13:10<LeviathNL>what sprite numbers in trgtr.grf?
13:11<Wolf01>good question
13:11<fjb>Is there some trouble with road vehicles finding their way again?
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13:12<LeviathNL>I also can't "find" them ingame
13:13<Wolf01>the terrain tiles start at 0 with the brown tiles, then 3 series of green tiles (the 2 not used and the grassy one) up to 75
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13:14<LeviathNL>these 2 series are used
13:14<Wolf01>no, i tried, they aren't
13:14<LeviathNL>look at the screenshit i posted in the thread
13:14<LeviathNL>try the tar
13:14<Wolf01>and seem that in toyland there are only 2 kinds of road, urban and country
13:15<Wolf01>so i'll convert the new placed to urban
13:15<Wolf01>replacing the brown with the gray
13:17<LeviathNL>do you have a replacement (red groundtiles?) for the red tiles in toyland?
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13:17<LeviathNL>i think they are toylands rough ground
13:20<Wolf01>yes they are
13:20<Wolf01>i'll work on it as soon i'll finish the roads
13:26<LeviathNL>can't I do a color replace on the standard tiles?
13:27<Wolf01>why you should?
13:28<LeviathNL>did you hava any other plans whit these tiles than recoloring them?
13:28<Wolf01>yes, i plan to add plastic rocks
13:29<Wolf01>and little green platic pieces for the rough land
13:29<LeviathNL>ah ok
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13:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11569 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix [FS#1480]: full paths sometimes did not work correctly.
13:46<fjb>I have a problem with a lost train which insists on going to an occupied platform while the neigbour platform is free: http://www.myimg.de/?img=TropicExpress28Okt204c925f.png
13:47<+glx>fjb: random in action
13:47<fjb>Hm, how can I guide it to the other platform?
13:47<SmatZ>fjb: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1473
13:48<SmatZ>fjb: the train doesn't have the station in its order
13:48<fjb>And I have some routing problems with the road vehicles sometimes not finding their paths in the latest nightly builds.
13:48<hylje>given a portal gun powerful enough
13:48<hylje>could one run a train between them?
13:49<SmatZ>fjb: there were not any changes to the PF... can you describe your problem more accurate, or give exact revision when it "went wrong"?
13:49<SmatZ>hylje: yes
13:51<fjb>Two bus stops in the same small town. The ai once build them and then got sold to me. One bus was going between them. Now every bus that has to go between these two stations (and two others formerly build by the ai), gets instantly lost.
13:52<fjb>The speed indicator below the vehicle window constantly shows a changing speed and the arrow in front of the next station in the routing window is flickering and sometomes jumps between the two stations.
13:53<BiA|pavel-css>sounds like teleport :)
13:53<fjb>And I suddenly have more trains getting lost. I never had lost trains in this game before.
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13:54<fjb>The bus doesn't teleport, ist just drives around, often further and further away from it's destination, One of the busses went almost to the other side of the map.
13:54<+glx>fjb: what pf is used for buses?
13:55<fjb>yapf
13:55<SmatZ>fjb: could you post a savegame?
13:55<fjb>Yes, tell me where I can upload it. My webserver is still not set up again.
13:56<Wolf01>LeviathNL http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lego/city_roads.PNG what do you think?
13:57<SmatZ>fjb: how big is that file?
13:57<LeviathNL>Wolf01, very nice!
13:58<LeviathNL>If i can help with some standard copy posting in the sprites or in any other way let me know
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13:59<Wolf01>i don't know, i'm used to draw all the tiles pixel per pixel by hand
14:00<Wolf01>maybe some pieces can be tiled, but i like to draw different textures for all the tiles
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14:02<fjb>SmatZ: 577888 Bytes
14:03<fjb>I really have to setup that webserver again.
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14:05<Wolf01>LeviathNL, looking at the picture on the forum, the quarter sloped tile facing north should be lowered by 2 or 3 pixels (y_offs)
14:06<Wolf01>uhm, no they are right
14:06<Wolf01>are the NW slopes too low
14:07<LeviathNL>I'll check
14:08<LeviathNL>the biggest slope facing south does not look properly aligned either
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14:20<LeviathNL>fixed it, also changed some other tiles offsets slightly (these cleared land tiles are great for debugging offsets :) )
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14:56<gegeafk>re
14:56<gegeafk>omg
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14:56<gege>re)
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15:22<Ikarus-70>Hi
15:22<Ikarus-70>is someone reading me?
15:23<+glx>why?
15:23<Prof_Frink>Ikarus-70: reading you loud and clear
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15:23<Ikarus-70>I have a problem with ottd
15:23<Ikarus-70>with multiplayer
15:24|-|erikv [~erik@kotnet-144.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #openttd
15:24<Ikarus-70>it has lags, but i seem to be the only one on that server
15:25<Ikarus-70>can someone help me with this?
15:25<Ikarus-70>I have DSL 2000 and WinXP
15:26<Rubidium>where are you, where is the server, how fast is your computer, how big is the game?
15:26<Prof_Frink>And are you doing anything that might be eating bandwith?
15:27<Ikarus-70>I am in Germany
15:27<Ikarus-70>All other programs stopped
15:27<Ikarus-70>I have a Athlon64 3200+
15:28<Ikarus-70>CPU @ 8%
15:29<Ikarus-70>network @ 0,1%
15:29<Prof_Frink>OK, so the problem isn't your end.
15:30<Prof_Frink>Either: The server is running slow, which you can't really do much about, or the intertubes are blocked, which you can't really do much about.
15:30<Rubidium>network @ 0,1 % doesn't necessarily mean that his DSL has enough free bandwidth
15:31<Ikarus-70>Is there anything I can do?
15:31<Prof_Frink>That comes under the heading of "blocked intertubes"
15:31<Ikarus-70>I have this problem often, on different servers
15:31<Ikarus-70>never heard about it :-(
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15:53<Thijs>!password
15:54<Rubidium>fietstas
15:54<Rubidium>;)
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15:54<Rubidium>bye!
15:54<ln->startkeylogger
15:54<Rubidium>bugger... nobody with a bugged router
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16:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11570 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not flood rail station tiles when there is a vehicle on it (when non-uniform stations are ON)
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16:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11571 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1493]: road vehicle getting to the wrong side of a station when trying to overtake in there.
16:53<Wezz6400>hmm, too bad openttd needs screen on a linux box
16:54<Wezz6400>to run dedicated that is ;)
16:54<+glx>well noone force you to use screen
16:54<+glx>but it is highly recommended over ssh :)
16:54<Prof_Frink>And what's wrong with dtach?
16:55<Wezz6400>well if I want to close my ssh connection, I need screen to keep it running don't I?
16:55<+glx>Wezz6400: yes but there are probably other tools able to do that
16:55<Wezz6400>well true
16:56<Wezz6400>I'm not saying it's very bad or anything, it just seems kind of overkill to keep a session running
16:56<+glx>not really
16:56<@Bjarni>somebody should write a guide on how to run OpenTTD servers on remote servers when you disconnect from them
16:56<+glx>screen is very easy to use
16:57<@Bjarni>...because I would like to read it ;
16:57<@Bjarni>;)
16:57<Wezz6400>I wasn't really complaining or anything, it's just that I find other sofware that is capable of forking a bit more convinient
16:58[~]Bjarni wonders what screen is
16:58[~]Bjarni wonders if the guys at uni installed screen already
16:58<SmatZ>Bjarni: something like nohup ... alows you to let program run when you close your terminal connection
16:58[~]SmatZ did maybe lame explanation :-p
16:59<@Bjarni>well... it's there :)
16:59<@Bjarni>even with a man page
16:59<@Bjarni>I guess I should be able to figure out how to use it then
17:00|-|Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:00<@Bjarni>not for OpenTTD though... they firewalled it
17:00<@Bjarni>so it would make no sense to host a game... nobody would be able to join except localhost
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17:01<@Bjarni>hi Eddi|zuHause
17:01<@Bjarni>I have a question for you :)
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>shoot
17:02<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: have you heard about the powerplant that a Danish company might build in Germany?
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>no
17:02<@Bjarni>I thought so
17:03<@Bjarni>here the news says that there are massive protests against it and that it's a cruel company and shit so I decided to search for this in German... and came up with nothing
17:03<@Bjarni>huge protests and the only thing that came up was the company's own info page on what they offer to build
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, maybe it is known in a 2km radius around the building site...
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>brb
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17:04<@Bjarni>that was quick
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17:04<@Bjarni>do you know about the power supply situation in the former DDR?
17:05<@Bjarni>still @ Eddi|zuHause
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>not much
17:05<@Bjarni>because the media here talks a lot and tells only a little
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember any serious power shortages if that is what you mean...
17:06<ln->did DDR have the same kind of wall outlets as most of the western europe?
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>at least there is no difference between east and west germany
17:07<@Bjarni>but from what I understand the politicians says that they need more power to get rid of unemployment since new production and stuff needs more power
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>there have been over 15 years of decline...
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17:08<@Bjarni>so they requested a power plant and then the Danish power company offers a state of the art coal plant and then the media here flames coal plants in general
17:08<@Bjarni>saying stuff that we should only build windmills and stuff
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>i assume they shut down a lot of stuff after The Change, because it was not needed anymore, with most of the industries closing
17:09<@Bjarni>how do you expect to here and now build a reliable supply of power from windmills on a massive scale
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence does not parse...
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17:10<@Bjarni>I mean if we should only build windmills and more power is needed then we will just have to hope that people will only use electricity when the wind is blowing, right?
17:10<ln->[how do you expect] [to [here and now] build a reliable supply of power from windmills on a massive scale]
17:11<ln->Bjarni: there could be coal-powered turbines that blow at the windmills when it's calm.
17:12<@Bjarni>hehe
17:12<Prof_Frink>Nonsense. You just need curried sprouts.
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17:14<fjb>I guess it is the coal power plant that filters the co2 and puts it into the ground. And nobody knows if it will really stay there.
17:14<@Bjarni>the thing is that CO2 is likely the only thing that it will not filter out
17:15<@Bjarni>but then again it will have an efficiency of around 50% (I presume that they will not build it worse than the plants they already own), making it far more efficient than the rest of the powerplants in Germany
17:16<fjb>The politicians are talking about filtering CO2 and dumpunk it in the earth. And that power plant will use brown coal, witch doesn't have much energy.
17:16<@Bjarni>here they managed to do that on a test plant
17:16<@Bjarni>well the plant is real
17:16<@Bjarni>they just decided to test on it
17:16<fjb>And some villages will be destroyed when they get the brown coal out of the earth.
17:16<@Bjarni>turns out that the process eats 30% of the power output
17:17<@Bjarni>who uses brown coal today?
17:17<@Bjarni>it sucks :P
17:17<fjb>Yes, but that power plant will filter the CO2, no politician cares how much of the power output that process consumes.
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>this is so funny, there are a lot of closed down brown coal mines here, and they decided to make some of them lakes
17:18<@Bjarni>they can't filter out 100%
17:18<fjb>It sucks, but our politicians decided to still use it. Eastern Germany used it because they had nothing else.
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>then they decided upon a 10 year plan to fill the hole with water
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>then there came The Big Flood
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>and the entire thing filled in 10 days
17:18<@Bjarni>and it was flooded in no time
17:18<fjb>:-)
17:18<@Bjarni>you told us earlier
17:19<@Bjarni>do you presume that we either don't read what you write or have memory leaks?
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>well, the city would most certainly have drowned otherwise...
17:19<@Bjarni>then empty the lakes and use them as water buffers to protect the city
17:19<fjb>The protests against the plant are mainly because it will use brown coal, and some villages will be destroyed. And because the whole plan sucks.
17:20<@Bjarni>gee... do I really have to tell you everything?
17:20<fjb>Bjarni for Bundeskanzler. :-)
17:20<@Bjarni>that is a thing that I will never become
17:21<@Bjarni>not because I'm not suited for it
17:21<fjb>Oh. :-(
17:21<@Bjarni>but because it takes too much asslicking to be a candidate
17:21<ln->i don't remember seeing this mine-filling discussion before.
17:21[~]Bjarni debugs ln- for memory leaks
17:21<fjb>No, not asslicking today anymore. You only have to work for a powerfull industry lobby. :-)
17:22<@Bjarni>ok
17:22<@Bjarni>then I have a chance
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17:22<ln->is it still full of water?
17:23<@Bjarni>I will just drop the Kyoto protocol and then I will be backed up by the oil, coal and auto industries
17:23<@Bjarni>:P
17:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11572 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1494]: reinitialise windows system before loading a savegame
17:23<@Bjarni><fjb> The protests against the plant are mainly because it will use brown coal, and some villages will be destroyed. And because the whole plan sucks. <-- I object against it because the whole concept of reducing CO2 and only CO2 is a mistaken one
17:23<@Bjarni>what about SO2?
17:24<@Bjarni>or O3?
17:24<@Bjarni>or NO2 or NO3?
17:24<+glx>O3 is good in high altitude :)
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know any power plants in high altitude :p
17:25<+glx>would be nice to have a system to catch it on ground and release it in high altitude
17:25<+glx>will fill the hole ;)
17:25<ln->glx: that could be possible with the space elevator.
17:27<@Bjarni><glx> O3 is good in high altitude :) <-- but not when it's lower than 100 meters... then it just causes cancer and stuff
17:28<fjb>Bjarni: Politicians here are mostly doing what the industry wants or what they think hight sound good to most people. Reducing CO2 sounds good, so they do it. Who cares about the other evel things?
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17:29<@Bjarni>me
17:29|-|ludde [~ludde@ua-83-227-238-252.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:29<Gonozal_VIII>you
17:29<Gonozal_VIII>what?
17:29<@Bjarni>I care
17:29<+glx>ho ludde was here
17:29<+glx>didn't noticed
17:29|-|ben_goodger [~ben@host217-42-221-30.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
17:29<ln->did you insult him?
17:29<@Bjarni>glx: nobody notices when he shows up
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>he's here quite often lately
17:30<fjb>glx: He is always here, but nobody notices him entering the chanel.
17:30<+glx>yes we only see him leave
17:30<ln->the evil peer got him
17:30<@Bjarni>fjb: actually I don't care for CO2... I find it less of an issue compared to smog, SO2 and friends
17:30<fjb>Is he real or a ghost. I have to ask him someday.
17:30<@Bjarni>he talks to me once in a while
17:31<@Bjarni>but I wouldn't rule out the ghost theory though
17:31<Gonozal_VIII>yes, friends can be really annoying
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>hm... where did i see that... "Connection reset by Peer Gynt"
17:31<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: in here
17:31<fjb>Bjarni: You are not part of the people our politicans want to impress.
17:31<Gonozal_VIII>peer gynt?
17:31<ln->does someone want to recommend me a nice sci-fi book written in German?
17:31<Gonozal_VIII>perry rhodan :D
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17:32<fjb>:-)
17:32<@Bjarni>ln-: do you presume that there is one?
17:32<fjb>Perry Rhodan is nice. I read it a lot when I was a kid.
17:32<fjb>:-)
17:32<ln->Bjarni: must be.
17:33<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
17:33<@Bjarni>maybe it's like Star Trek... cool story until you realise that the audio is a bunch of people sitting and talking and not actually making the movements and stuff to make it real
17:33<@Bjarni>like missing lips movement sync and stuff
17:33<@Bjarni>actually a guy at uni invented a way to make a computer alter mouth movement to match recorded speech
17:34<@Bjarni>the idea was to help people with bad ears but Hollywood likes the idea when it comes to synchronising their movies
17:35<@Bjarni>I don't think the research has reached a "production" state yet though
17:35<Gonozal_VIII>they should start with translating the text in a way that has the same meaning...
17:36<fjb>Hollywood has some problems with synchronising anyway. The people who have to synchronise it are not allowed to see the whole movie they which they are working on.
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_Gynt
17:36<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Yes, sometimes it is horrible what the german speakers say. Full of bugs.
17:37<ben_goodger>good ${timeperiod()} everyone; could I please trouble someone who speaks russian for some advice?
17:37<Gonozal_VIII>peer is the first name of that guy :S
17:37<ben_goodger>damn
17:37|-|Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host251-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:38<ben_goodger>I need to write this christmas card this evening...
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: i assume it's a short form of "Peter"
17:38<ln->write "За Путина!"
17:38<@Bjarni><fjb> Bjarni: You are not part of the people our politicans want to impress. <-- of cause not... I actually knows reality, economics and physics so I can spot realistic and unrealistic politicians
17:39<@Bjarni>we are cursed mainly with the last kind :(
17:40<ln->or "добро пожаловать в СССР"
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17:40<fjb>Bjarni: Our problem are politicians who are working for thze big companies...
17:40<ben_goodger>that nearly succeeded, but unfortunately I know what CCCP means ^_^
17:41<Gonozal_VIII>something completely different... can you steal something that has already been stolen?
17:41|-|prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
17:41|-|stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:41<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Yes, ofcourse you can.
17:41<ben_goodger>Gonozal_VIII: yup
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: trying to justify your p2p usage?
17:41<fjb>:-)
17:41<ln->ben_goodger: do you know how to properly write cyrillic text with a pen?
17:41<Gonozal_VIII>nah... modified the stolen trees grf to make them grow from tiny to big
17:41|-|stillunk1own [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>while you are at it, allow them in arctic, too ;)
17:42<ben_goodger>ln-: nope, but I'm hoping that this diagram will allow me not to screw it up too badly
17:42<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Better make own trees. I also thought about it. But I didn't come up with good looking trees.
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>but before releasing, i would ask the artist...
17:43<fjb>Who did the trees? SAC?
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>just because the name says they were stolen, they were actually released by the artist
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>yes but she seems to be gone
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>she just left the forum...
17:43|-|divo [~divo.afx@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:43<fjb>She has a website, her email should be there.
17:43<ben_goodger>ln-: can you tell me how to properly spell sergei in cyrillic? I have a С but that's about it
17:45|-|gege [~jo-reggel@static-81-17-185-44.dunaweb.hu] has quit []
17:46<ln->Сергей, afaik.
17:46<LeviathNL>Wolf01, there are some miscoloured pixles in sprite 12
17:47<ben_goodger>thanks
17:48<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: You may find SAC somewhere here: http://ttartist.freeforums.org/portal.php
17:49|-|iBitch [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd
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17:49<Gonozal_VIII>thanks
17:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11573 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt misc_cmd.cpp openttd.cpp): -Codechange: pause games that miss GRFs by default and throw some warnings and disclaimers when you want to unpause it.
17:50<ln->ben_goodger: in hand-writing it's something like: http://www.ksenos.fi/~lauri/s.png
17:50<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Don't know if she is still there.
17:51<ben_goodger>ln-: got it, thanks, turns out that dejavu serif renders cyrillic cursively in italic (logical)
17:51<Gonozal_VIII>can't do anything there without login
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17:51<ben_goodger>is "веселого Рождества" correct?
17:52<Rubidium>not correct English, that's for sure
17:52<ln->that one you'll have to ask from someone who actually speaks russian.
17:52<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: it looks like you dropped your letters and helplessly tried to fix them :P
17:52<Rubidium>SergejS!
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: pffft... :p
17:53<@Bjarni>hey that's how the story goes
17:53<@Bjarni>at least my Russian source claims so
17:53|-|Tlustoch [~last_evol@r5bn73.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:53<ben_goodger>Bjarni: that's from google translate, and my cyrillic is absolutely terrible, so I'm effectively blind here
17:54<ben_goodger>Ι πρεφερ Γρεεκ ^_^
17:54<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Maybe the webmaster of http://web.telia.com/~u00302973/INFRA.html knows her address.
17:54<@Bjarni>it should be that the Russians wanted to use letters too so they sent out some guys to pick them up. They got the letters carved in wood and on the way back they dropped them and they broke. To prevent travelling back (it took ages back then) they tried to fix them but they didn't do it correctly
17:55<fjb>:-)
17:56<ben_goodger>that makes a lot of sense
17:56<ben_goodger>it would explain why the russian for L ended up as a reverse of the greek for P, at least.
17:56<Gonozal_VIII>aegir coded the grf, i'll pm him :-)
17:56<@Bjarni>yeah... specially since I was told that story by a Russian who teaches languages at one of their universities
17:58<@Bjarni>but I have no idea if it's the real story... somehow I think if they really fixed the letters then it wouldn't be in the history books because then they would keep it a secret
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>in the way i learned it it was more like bulgarians or something...
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>but similar story
17:59<@Bjarni>I forgot where in Europe the picked up the letters :(
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: actually, the cyrillic L looks a little similar to the greek Lambda
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>while the cyrillic P looks very much like a greek Pi
18:01<ln->the cyrillic T looks very much like Pi with a third leg
18:01<@Bjarni>they mirrored R and gave it a new sound as well... in a way the letters are very similar but they just got switched sounds compared to the originals
18:02|-|Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-152-104.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )]
18:02<@Bjarni>so while the story about the broken letters might be just that... a story, it's not unlikely that something like that could have happened
18:03<ln->http://freestylelanguage.com/files/russian-alphabet.jpg
18:04<@Bjarni>NO
18:04<@Bjarni>not jpg :(
18:04<@Bjarni>jpg sucks for something like that
18:04<@Bjarni>use png
18:04<Prof_Frink>hello.jpg
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>.svg ;)
18:04<mikl>or .ogg
18:04<@Bjarni>whatever
18:04<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Why would you want hello.jpg scalable?
18:04<@Bjarni>just something that will not make it a blur
18:05<mikl>In soviet russia, the letters spell you
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not really sure what you are referring to as hello.jpg...
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>chances are i wouldn't want to find out either :p
18:05<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: A rather famous image.
18:06|-|Prof_Frink kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [now you make me search for hello.jpg thinking it was like hello world.... you shouldn't trick people like that]
18:06|-|Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5aca7d32.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>see :p
18:06<@Bjarni>in other words: you are better off not searching for it
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i know :p
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, i suspected
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>now i know...
18:06<Prof_Frink>As I was saying before being kicked, "If you've been on the internet, you've seen hello.jpg"
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>why is there something between a and b... there shouldn't be something between a and b... never..
18:07<@Bjarni>now I have
18:07<@Bjarni>thanks to you :(
18:07<Prof_Frink>Other things I sholdn't mention include tubgirl, lemonparty, meatspin and 2girls1cup.
18:08<@Bjarni>then don't mention them :P
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>Gonozal_VIII: language historical, v (w) and b are closely related... the real question is why they are so far apart in the latin alphabet
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>also, the letter that you would think that "b" is is not the one that looks like "b" ;)
18:09<@Bjarni>I was once told that tubgirl was some hot young chick in a tub and I was recommended to go see it.... I was like "so? It's the internet and I go where I want to be. It's not like I don't know what boobs looks like" and I didn't go there. Later I learned that was a wise choice
18:10<Prof_Frink>I have managed (so far) to avoid everything since goatse and tubgirl.
18:11<@Bjarni>but what URL is linked to that damn hello.jpg?
18:11<Prof_Frink>Originally it was goatse.cx, but that was taken down
18:11<@Bjarni>or the other way around XD
18:11<@Bjarni>usually URLs links to jpgs
18:11<@Bjarni>ohh... that was goatse
18:12<Prof_Frink>wiki has plenty of info
18:12<@Bjarni>according to bash.org some people got a better (longer) view of it than I did
18:12<@Bjarni>thank God for hotkeys
18:12|-|Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz]
18:12<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: like I want to read about a wreched anus....
18:13<@Bjarni>I'm not into that >_<
18:13<Gonozal_VIII>wtf
18:13<@Bjarni>I thought so too
18:13<@Bjarni>while hitting command+w
18:16<ln->the goatse has enabled a lot of people to come out of the closet.
18:16|-|mikl_ [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
18:16<@Bjarni>are you sure it's the closet they came out of?
18:17<mikl_>Bjarni: are you sure you want to know?
18:17<Prof_Frink>http://goatse8.ytmnd.com/ (SFW)
18:17|-|mikl changed nick to mikl_o_O
18:17<@Bjarni>besides I would imagine that it would scare people away instead
18:17|-|Prof_Frink kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [you aren't fooling me again]
18:18|-|mikl_ [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit []
18:18<+glx><Gonozal_VIII> why is there something between a and b... there shouldn't be something between a and b... never.. <-- it is a, b, v indeed :)
18:18|-|mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
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18:18<Prof_Frink>No, really, it's safe
18:18<@Bjarni>I don't trust you anymore
18:19<mikl>I know a guy who managed to get Goatse on his credit card
18:19<mikl>he played enough with the colours that it was not immediately recogniseable
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>?
18:19<mikl>but everyone who had seen goatse before would immidiately recognise it
18:20<mikl>it gave an insane amout of geek cred, of course :)
18:20<Prof_Frink>goat cred
18:20<@Bjarni>gaah
18:20|-|mikl_o_O [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt]
18:20<@Bjarni>it's not safe
18:20<Gonozal_VIII>how do you get something on your credit card?
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>get your bank to print a custom image on it?
18:21<@Bjarni>it said "his hands are really in there"... I closed before noticing that >_<
18:21<mikl>Gonozal_VIII: some banks offer it - then you just upload an image and you but it on the card
18:22<mikl>Gonozal_VIII: In this case, it was a Danish bank - "Jyske Bank" :)
18:22<@Bjarni>I say that I wouldn't want it on my credit card... imagine all the places where you use it
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>i've never used a credit card
18:22[~]Bjarni would reject a guys payment if the credit card looks like that
18:23<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> i've never used a credit card <-- you mean you owe the bank so much that they don't trust you with one?
18:23<Prof_Frink>I want a credit card that causes "Cost: £50" to float out the top in red letters whenever you use it
18:23<Gonozal_VIII>^^ i don't know many people that use credit cards here
18:24<@orudge>[23:18:37] <Prof_Frink> No, really, it's safe <-- it is, actually
18:24<Prof_Frink>orudge: Too slow
18:24<@orudge>oh well
18:24<@Bjarni>actually I learned that my credit card isn't a credit card at all... I'm told it's a debit card instead
18:24<mikl>I don' t have a credit card either - I have Visa Electron
18:25<mikl>helps me not spend more than I have :)
18:25[~]Bjarni don't even have visa
18:25<@Bjarni>no need for it
18:25<mikl>debit card is the right term for it, I believe
18:25<SmatZ>I got one for free when settling my bank account...
18:25<mikl>Bjarni: what kind of debit card do you have that's not a Electron?
18:25<@Bjarni>besides it makes it way less interesting for international criminals
18:26<mikl>Bjarni: that too
18:26<Gonozal_VIII>for free... until they charge you every month for it
18:26<@Bjarni><mikl> Bjarni: what kind of debit card do you have that's not a Electron? <-- you have 3 guesses :)
18:26<mikl>Maestro?
18:26<@Bjarni>no
18:26<mikl>that's the only other I can think of...
18:26<Gonozal_VIII>i have a maestro card :-)
18:27<@Bjarni>hehe
18:27<mikl>unless you're thinking of those your-own-banks-ATMs-only-cards
18:27<@Bjarni>mikl: it's not that tricky... I just said that I can't travel with it meaning that it only works here
18:28<mikl>But the Dankort /is/ a credit card
18:28<mikl>by my definition, anyways...
18:28<@Bjarni>are you sure?
18:28<mikl>since it's possible to withdraw more than you have
18:29<@Bjarni>but only stupid people do that :p
18:29<@Bjarni>besides you have to have an agreement with your bank to do that
18:29<mikl>:'-(
18:29<@Bjarni>I think
18:29<mikl>I'm stooopid then, I suppose
18:29<mikl>You can do it without their agreement, but they'll get angry ;)
18:29<@Bjarni>they charge you an arm and a leg for going into negative
18:30<mikl>and/or have you make a real credit agreement
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>Maestro (or Electronic Cash) are the most common cards in germany... they are not credit cards
18:30<mikl>been there, done that - now I'm in debt :(
18:31<mikl>Eddi|zuHause: One of the largest Danish banks use them as well, but most of them went with Visa Electron (which works the same way)
18:31<@Bjarni>you know they give you virtually no interest in your cash in the bank (regular account) but if you go into negative they start putting all kinds of fees on your account and then the interest is really noteworthy
18:31<@Bjarni>that's why I avoid it
18:32<ln->mikl: there are Visa Debit cards, which are not Electrons nor credit cards.
18:32<Prof_Frink>Indeed. I have one right here.
18:33<mikl>ln-: Oh - interesting :)
18:33<@Bjarni>you see... if your income is X and your expenses are X every month, then you just need to have a positive cash on the account to start with. If you have say -5000 every month then you add and subtract the same amount of cash (in fact less because the bank keeps some of it) so just keep some money there and make sure it will not reach 0
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>the good thing about Maestro is that most stores here accept them without additional fee
18:34<@Bjarni>and you will save a whole lot of money
18:34<mikl>It's a quite new thing for average Danes to be using anything but our national Dankort or the Visa/Dankort
18:35<@Bjarni>I don't the students who says that they have to go into negative every month because they are low on income.... it's a static problem, not a dynamic one. It's a question of what about of money you have a minimum on your account
18:35<ln->Eddi|zuHause: over here, quite many stores have the Maestro logo on their window along with the other logos, but i don't know anyone who has a Maestro. (while i know a lot of people having Electron).
18:35<mikl>Bjarni: yeah, it's not a monetary problem - it's a lack of self-discipline
18:35<+glx>I have an Electron
18:36<ln->glx: sorry to hear that.
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>most banks here don't give credit to students
18:36<@orudge>I have a Visa, and a Maestro!
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>at least the minimum on my account is 0
18:36<+glx>that was my choice
18:36<Prof_Frink>switchmaestro! With rathergood penguins!
18:37<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause> most banks here don't give credit to students <--- surprisingly I was (as a student) offered to borrow money so I could buy a car and pay it back in only (inset obscene number here) months
18:37<+glx>36?
18:37<ln->over here all banks give credit cards to students having completed enough courses, and with no record of trouble with payments.
18:38<@Bjarni>I didn't like the car they offered and the interest looked kind of nasty too
18:38<@Bjarni>glx: I think it was even more
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>funnily, once i had X euro on my account, a payment of X+3 going off from the account at day A, and a payment of Y going on the account at day A+1, so i ended up with Y-3 euro, and a (theoretical) -3 euro for one day
18:38<+glx>36 is already a lot for a car
18:38<@Bjarni>unless I took care of the car I would still be paying on it when it was unable to drive
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>but there was no complaint from the bank
18:38<@Bjarni>the offer was really weird
18:39<ln->actually, over here it is/was a lot easier to get a Visa by being a university student than by being a regular citizen.
18:39<@Bjarni>also I had to ensure it at a specific insurance company
18:40<+glx>hmm that implies pay more for no more guaranties
18:40<@Bjarni>they just forgot to ask one simple question: do I want my own car? :)
18:40<mikl>Bjarni: it's like buying a phone from L'easy - you'll pay it off over three years...
18:40<mikl>who keeps a mobile phone for three years? ;)
18:40<+glx>I do
18:40<Gonozal_VIII>me too
18:40<@Bjarni>I do
18:40<mikl>I usually manage to break mine every 6 months or so :(
18:41<ln->i've understood the requirements for a Visa are 1) a permanent job, 2) with high enough income, 3) and having had that job for at least 6 months. non-permanent jobs are not ok.
18:41<mikl>last one got smashed in a car door
18:41<@Bjarni>:P
18:41<ln->while a student can get a Visa with virtually a zero-income and no job.
18:41<mikl>don't remember what happened to the one before that, but the screen broke somehow
18:42<+glx>my old phone is still functional, but it needs a new battery
18:42<@orudge>ln-: it's funny, the bank gave me a Visa before they even gave me a Maestro debit card
18:42<@Bjarni>glx: same here.... I wonder if it's worth to invest in a new battery though
18:42<+glx>that's why I got a new one
18:42<@Bjarni>it wasn't even a high end phone to begin with
18:43<@Bjarni>usually I'm around a power supply when I need it though
18:43<@Bjarni>12V,24V or 230V
18:43<Gonozal_VIII>i got a new one because i switched to a different company and i coudn't unlock it
18:44<+glx>siemens c25, and now I have an alcatel OT 511
18:44<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> i got a new one because i switched to a different company and i coudn't unlock it <-- here the people who sells you the phone has to unlock it for free after 6 months
18:45<+glx>same here
18:45<@Bjarni>could be an EU rule
18:45<ln->we didn't have locked phones at all before 3G.
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>never heard of that
18:45<+glx>though I didn't unlock any of my phone ;)
18:45<ln->and even now, only 3G phones are allowed to be locked.
18:45<@Bjarni>to allow free competition between the phone companies
18:46<+glx>apple will have problem with iphone ;)
18:46<@Bjarni><glx> though I didn't unlock any of my phone ;) <-- I did... when I learned that I could cut my phone bill by around 70% by doing so
18:46<ln->iphone is already being sold unlocked in germany.
18:46<@Bjarni>iPhone is a real problem.... I wonder what will happen
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: for 999€
18:47<ln->Bjarni: next february you'll be porting OTTD for it.
18:47<ln->Eddi|zuHause: yeah. cheap as bread.
18:47<mikl>In Denmark, we've always* had locked phones - but the vendor is required to fork over the codes on demand when you've had the phone for 6 months
18:47<@Bjarni>but I know what will not happen: I will not stand in line to become one of the first to get one
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>but as i understood, they still have lawsuits going on wether they have to sell them unlocked or not
18:48<mikl>that works fairly well - we have cheap phones, but we're not locked in for an unreasonable amount of time
18:48<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: next february you'll be porting OTTD for it. <-- I considered it but then I would have problems with screen size
18:48<ln->that's true.
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>my old phone was a siemens a55... i think... and now i have a nokia 1110i.. or something
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>the only phone i ever had said i could get the unlock codes for free after 2 years
18:48<ln->Bjarni: but if only running a dedicated server, that doesn't matter.
18:49<mikl>ln-: the question is - why would you want to have a dedicated server on your iPhone?
18:49<ln->mikl: to attract females.
18:50<@Bjarni>my ISP locked my internet connection as well for 6 months... well they said that but when I upgraded the speed I got a slower speed instead and two bills... turned out that the problem was that they locked it for 2/1 years instead of 1/2 years
18:50<mikl>ln-: I suppose that is an option... Humans have always had strange mating preferences ;)
18:50<@Bjarni>that was a real mess to clean up :(
18:51<@Bjarni>and the really stupid thing about it was that the lock prevented me from getting a higher speed at the same ISP :P
18:52[~]ln- has 10/10 Mbit/s
18:52<@Bjarni>even though according to their conditions the lock shouldn't be a problem if I wanted to upgrade to a faster (read: more expensive) connection
18:52[~]SmatZ doesn't
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... my newgrf directory disappeared...
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>very strange...
18:52<Gonozal_VIII>gnomes!
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>1. gather newgrfs
18:52[~]mikl has 8/2 mbit
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>2. ???
18:52<DaleStan>I told you rm -rf was a bad idea.
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>3. profit!!
18:53<@Bjarni>ln-: the owner of the copper cables here considers upstream something to be avoided if possible so in extreme cases we can get 1,5 mb upstream... not more
18:53<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: too much SP ;)
18:53<@Bjarni>and preferable not more than 512 kb
18:53<@orudge>I have 832kbps upstream here, and that's the most they offer on a standard ADSL connection
18:53<@Bjarni>default 128 kbit upstream
18:53<+glx>1023 up here
18:53<mikl>Bjarni: it's not so bad after they've started rolling out ADSL2+
18:53<@orudge>most ADSL Max connections are 448kbps upstream, standard ADSL is 288kbs up
18:53<@Bjarni>do any of you fancy a 4096/128 connection?
18:53<mikl>I have that here, works admirably
18:53<SmatZ>4096/512 here
18:53<Gonozal_VIII>3mbit down, 384 kbit up
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>i have something like 64kbit up
18:54<@orudge>8132/832 here
18:54<@orudge>*8192
18:54<@orudge>(Although, in practice, it's closer to 6.5Mbps
18:54<@orudge>)
18:54<mikl>8192/2048 :)
18:54[~]ln- is connected through Cat5e/6 and optic fibre, no DSL technique at any point.
18:54<+glx>up to 20Mb/1Mb, but I can't get more than 4.5Mb
18:54<mikl>ln-: unfair!
18:54[~]orudge has 100Mbps down/up in comp sci though
18:54<@orudge>and indeed, I had that last year and the year before
18:55<@orudge>http://www.speedtest.net/result/205565327.png was the best result I got, I think, on speedtest.net
18:55<ln->mikl: the benefits of student apartments.
18:55<+glx>we'll have 100/50 with optic fiber (one day)
18:55<@Bjarni><mikl> Bjarni: it's not so bad after they've started rolling out ADSL2+ <-- it's limited where you can get that and they still charge you a whole lot for upstream compared to other countries
18:55<@Bjarni>surprisingly Denmark has a whole lot of fast internet connections compared to other countries while we pay twice as much for the same speed
18:56<mikl>Bjarni: that's right - monopoly bastards...
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>3mbit is 50 euro/month
18:56<+glx>29.9€ here
18:57<+glx>including TV and free phone to more than 50 countries
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>used to be 2mbit limited to 15gb traffic for the same price
18:57<Gonozal_VIII>including nothing
18:58<ln->24/1 is 49.90€ here, 2/1 is 33€, 8/1 is 39€
18:58<mikl>bleh, speedtest.net is 'orribly broken
18:58<ln->my 10/10: 0€
18:58<mikl>the best way to test your connection (downstream at any rate) is torrents :)
18:58<@orudge>well
18:59<@orudge>downstream if it's a private torrent
18:59<@orudge>upstream if it's a public torrent
18:59<@orudge>in my experience :P
18:59<mikl>I usually peak at 832 KB/s
18:59<+glx>mikl: but that depends on seeders
18:59<ln->how's minitel doing?
18:59<mikl>which means I get more or less what I pay for
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, this is the right time to set up a common newgrf directory for all checkouts...
19:00<Wolf01>'night
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>i get ~320 kb/s with torrents
19:00|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host251-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:00<mikl>I'm quite lucky with torrents - I almost always find a seeder with a phat pipe
19:00<+glx>ln-: it may still work, but I don't have a phone line to check
19:00<ln->Gonozal_VIII: kb or kB?
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>B
19:00<mikl>kB or kiB?
19:00<@orudge>I find Usenet best for checking my downstream
19:00<ln->glx: it's still used by people who have phone lines?
19:00<@orudge>tends to take up my full connection speed
19:01<Gonozal_VIII>byte :P
19:01<@Bjarni>I decided to try speedtest and it looked ok with a nearby server so I decided to try long distance. I picked Okinawa (don't ask why) and I got a ping of 666. Is that an indication that I did something wrong?
19:01<mikl>I also have my webserver with a 100mbit connection if I want to play...
19:01<+glx>ln-: maybe, some people still not have a computer and internet
19:02<Eddi|zuHause><mikl> kB or kiB? <- which one is which?
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>why would such people (people with no life) need a phone then?
19:02<@Bjarni>Interesting... I only have a ping of 206 to Wellington
19:02<mikl>Eddi|zuHause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KiB :)
19:05[~]Bjarni wonders why he can upload faster to California than to Portugal
19:05<+glx>peering probably
19:06<@Bjarni>while I download faster from Portugal and I have a better ping in Portugal
19:06<mikl>the internet is like that...
19:06<mikl>strange in many ways
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>because there is a fast fiber optical cable through the atlantic and lots of short connections after one another through europe
19:06<Prof_Frink>the internet is for porn.
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm
19:07<mikl>and silly IRC channels
19:07|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:07<@Bjarni>I have faster upload and download to London... but twice the ping
19:07<Gonozal_VIII>there is a song about "the inernet is for porn"
19:07<@Bjarni>upload is almost like the nearest server
19:07<@orudge>Gonozal_VIII: indeed there is
19:07<@orudge>tis from Avenue Q
19:07[~]orudge saw it in New York
19:07<@orudge>quite funny
19:08|-|mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has left #openttd []
19:08<@Bjarni>the internet = porn
19:08<Prof_Frink>And goats.
19:08|-|mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
19:08<@Bjarni><orudge> tis from Avenue Q <-- you made a typo. It's spelled "tits"
19:08|-|Prof_Frink kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [not again]
19:08<@orudge>puppet tits?
19:08<@orudge>how peculiar
19:09<mikl>bleh, Cmd+W in the wrong window :(
19:09<mikl>⌘W actually
19:09<@Bjarni>mikl: not as funny as "who decided to put the X (close channel window) next to where you click to switch to the channel?"
19:10<mikl>yeah, that too
19:10<@Bjarni>hmm... where is the command sign?
19:10<mikl>I love the Firefox-extension that removes the close button from tabs
19:10<@Bjarni>I mean what keys should I press to get it?
19:11|-|Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5aca7d32.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
19:11<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Dave2. Dave2: Bjarni.
19:11<@Bjarni>mikl: answer the question
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>[01:10:34] mikl: I love the Firefox-extension that removes the close button from tabs <-- ff 2 default
19:11<mikl>Bjarni: just checking
19:11<@Bjarni>you just did it :s
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>no wait... the other way around
19:12<Gonozal_VIII>old ff has the x outside the tabs
19:12<mikl>Bjarni: I cheated
19:12<@Bjarni>oh
19:12<mikl>Character Palette :)
19:12<@Bjarni>btw I managed to crash firefox today
19:12<@Bjarni>I typed in an URL and it didn't like it
19:13<mikl>I don't know if there's a way to produce it with keyboard only
19:13<SmatZ>my firefox crashes often... because of flash player
19:13<@Bjarni>then I realised that my keyboard was still set to hiragana
19:13<@Bjarni>no wonder it fucked up
19:13<SmatZ>:)
19:13<+glx><mikl> I don't know if there's a way to produce it with keyboard only <-- it is always possible
19:13<Sacro>so what dœs θis do?
19:13<Sacro>hmm, θatˈs not right
19:14<mikl>the unicode-code for it is 2318, but I can't just do Alt+2318 like in Windows
19:14<Sacro>why dœs θ do a θeta?
19:14<mikl>I'm not used to Macs
19:14<Sacro>me neiθer
19:14<@Bjarni>shame on you
19:14<mikl>who careß
19:14<@Bjarni>mikl: but it's mandatory to know this key: 
19:14<@Bjarni>it's on the keyboard... somewhere
19:14<@Bjarni>try to figure it out XD
19:15[~]Sacro goes to read wikipædia
19:15<mikl>∑oméœñé
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>hmm i can't understand sacro... is that a good or a bad thing?
19:15<mikl>Bjarni: that's not fair
19:15<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: he goes to read something else than this channel..... that's a good thing
19:15<mikl>Bjarni: good thing I have the Keyboard viewer
19:15<@Bjarni>mikl: why not?
19:15<Sacro>‏yeah well, i can do many strange things
19:15<mikl>one of the small pieces of brilliance by Apple
19:16<@Bjarni>Sacro: I thought you were going to look up dirty words on wikipedia
19:16|-|ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-2.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
19:16|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [you can even get kicked]
19:16|-|DorpsGek kicked [#openttd] orudge [so can you!]
19:16|-|DorpsGek [truelight@81.171.98.110] has joined #openttd
19:16|-|mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
19:16|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:16<Sacro>D:
19:16<Sacro>WHO DID THAT
19:16<mikl>DorpsGek did
19:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11574 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix: flood train stations when there are no trains on border tiles too (when non-uniform stations are OFF)
19:16<+glx>orudge: nopt fair to kick the bot
19:17[~]Bjarni whistles silently
19:17<mikl>™™™
19:17<@orudge>glx: heh
19:17<@orudge>well
19:17<@orudge>maybe not
19:17<+glx>Sacro: it was me ;)
19:17<Sacro>:(
19:17<Gonozal_VIII>kick the baby!
19:17<mikl>kick the ops!
19:17|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [kick the baby]
19:17|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:17<Gonozal_VIII>:D
19:17<Sacro>one day i won't come back
19:18<mikl>Ah, I miss beeing a BOFH
19:18<AntB>don't tell them that >.>
19:18<@Bjarni>Sacro: is that a threat or promise?
19:18<Sacro>:'(
19:18<mikl>the olden Quakenet days, running a big channel and having a bouncer with a l33t vhost
19:18<Prof_Frink>mikl: Keep an eye on lws1984's blog then.
19:19<Prof_Frink>mikl: Are you Jolteon?
19:19<mikl>Prof_Frink: no, Pokémons exist only in your imagination.
19:19<mikl>Sorry that I had to be the one to tell you ;)
19:19<Prof_Frink>mikl: No, the #tycoon-ite
19:20<Prof_Frink>On quakenet, with a lame bouncer and lamer vhost.
19:20<@Bjarni>pokemon is banned in here.... it gives anime a bad name
19:20<mikl>Prof_Frink: no, haven't been on Quakenet in ages, and I've never been in that channel
19:20<Prof_Frink>-!- Jolteon [105Adam@Take.my.Penis.in.your.hand.if.you.wanna.be.myfriend.info.tm] has joined #tycoon
19:21<Prof_Frink>That one was just... disturbing
19:21|-|mode/#openttd [+o mikl] by Bjarni
19:21|-|mikl kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [<mikl> kick the ops!]
19:21<SmatZ>lol @ Sacro
19:21|-|mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
19:21<mikl>ah, not fair
19:21<+glx>lol
19:21<mikl>I'm too slow
19:22<mikl>Prof_Frink: I had vhosts like 'storm@er.med.i.foreningen.af.togtosser.dk' and lame stuff like that
19:22<@Bjarni>hey
19:22<@Bjarni>I want that domain name XD
19:22<mikl>I knew a couple of guys that rented out gameservers
19:23<@orudge>I have vhosts like orudge.users.quakenet.org, and pc.lan.owenrudge.net!
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>in #mathe we once introduced a ban on *.*.*.*.*.*
19:23<@orudge>yoda.zernebok.com is another!
19:23<@orudge>funky, eh?
19:23<mikl>Bjarni: I actually own brushane.com :)
19:23<@orudge>Eddi|zuHause: good thinking
19:23[~]Prof_Frink just uses the standard users.quakenet.org cloak
19:23<Prof_Frink>orudge: Oi
19:23<Prof_Frink>[23:17:48] <+Prof_Frink> Can you at least ban *!*@*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* ?
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>we later had to increase the number of . though, because some provider used that many
19:23<@Bjarni>mikl: it looks empty
19:23<mikl>Bjarni: It is
19:24<mikl>I once had snapsgryden.dk and managed to get TDC to bind my IP to bor.i.snapsgryden.dk :)
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think it was tiscali
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>it used the normal ip, and then added .tiscali.de to it, or something
19:24[~]Bjarni wonders if mikl is drunk
19:25[~]orudge 's ISP lets him specify his own reverse DNS
19:25<mikl>Bjarni: nono, not this early :)
19:25<mikl>so when I IRC'd from home I'd be storm@bor.i.snapsgryden.dk :D
19:25<NarkSlap>Bjarni, Is OpenTTD swedish from the start?
19:26<NarkSlap>:o
19:26<@Bjarni>that dependsd
19:26<mikl>oh, sweet 18 ...
19:26<@orudge>well
19:26<@orudge>not as such
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>also, we have a ban on *xx0r* for all the lamers...
19:26<NarkSlap>Mkay
19:26<@orudge>the project that became OpenTTD was written by a Swedish author
19:26<@orudge>in Sweden, as far as I know
19:26<NarkSlap>Mkey
19:26<@orudge>but it wasn't know as OpenTTD until it was released to the public ;)
19:26<@Bjarni>NarkSlap: basically if your system is set to Swedish then yes
19:26<NarkSlap>How old is that guy now?
19:26<NarkSlap>:D
19:26<NarkSlap>Bjarni, hehe, no
19:26<NarkSlap>:p
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>he is still alive, if that is what you ask :p
19:27<Sacro>http://www.gildedfork.com/recipes/thai-curry-chocolate-truffles.html
19:28<@Bjarni>I once spoke with a Dane who had Swedish windows on his laptop and Swedish keyboard... then he said that it was impossible to install anything but Swedish windows on it... he tried to install the Danish version but it detected his language change and rejected him
19:28<NarkSlap>Eddi|zuHause, mja, Its a guy on an other net that claims that his brother started OpenTTD
19:28<Gonozal_VIII>curry and chocolate?
19:28<mikl>he retired from OTTD after destroying the SVN repository, if memory serves
19:28<NarkSlap>:P
19:28<NarkSlap>And this guy should now be 26years
19:28<NarkSlap>old*
19:28<mikl>or was it his brother that trashed it - don't remeber
19:28<@Bjarni>the guy who started OpenTTD?
19:29<NarkSlap>mm
19:29<mikl>can't spell, it's too leate...
19:29<mikl>or early
19:29<@Bjarni>I can remember the incident... the question is...
19:29<@Bjarni>NarkSlap: what is the real name of this guy?
19:29<NarkSlap>Ludvid
19:29<NarkSlap>LLudvig*
19:29<@Bjarni>LOL
19:29<NarkSlap>Ludvig*
19:29<NarkSlap>:D
19:30<NarkSlap>What now then?
19:30<@Bjarni>I meant the brother :p
19:30<NarkSlap>Yes, Ludvig
19:30<NarkSlap>:P
19:30<@Bjarni>Ludvig's brother
19:30<NarkSlap>His brothers name is Ludvig he says
19:30<NarkSlap>What?
19:30<NarkSlap>:P
19:30<@Bjarni>Ludvig's brother's brother's brother
19:30<NarkSlap>Haha
19:31<NarkSlap>The guy Im chatting with?
19:31<@Bjarni>yeah
19:31<NarkSlap>*asking*
19:31|-|ben_goodger [~ben@host217-42-221-30.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:31<NarkSlap>Viktor
19:31|-|guru3 [~guru3@81-231-230-100-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
19:32<@Bjarni>either you find a well informed infiltrator or the real thing
19:32<NarkSlap>Mm
19:32<+glx>NarkSlap: ask him who wrote µtorrent :)
19:32<NarkSlap>He claims that he owns the openttd.org/.com, so
19:32<NarkSlap>glx, same guy?
19:32<NarkSlap>:p
19:33<NarkSlap>Bjarni, his nick is wiggo^ btw and lives in Gothenburg
19:33<@Bjarni>this is not like the time when a guy from Australia turned out and claimed to be friends with Ludvig and that they did drugs together and were heavy drinkers and active on the dancefloor
19:33<NarkSlap>:D
19:33<@Bjarni>if you know ludde/Ludvig then you will understand how far out this one is
19:34<NarkSlap>Okey :>
19:34<@Bjarni>specially the dancefloor part
19:34<mikl>I wish OS X had edge resistance ...
19:34<@Bjarni>basically ludde is stuck in a wheelchair
19:35<NarkSlap>oh
19:35<+glx>NarkSlap: whois says it can be true
19:35<NarkSlap>It can be hard to dance then
19:35<NarkSlap>:D
19:35<@Bjarni>makes it rather hard to imagine him being an active dancer, a heavy drinker and wandering from bar to bar
19:35<NarkSlap>glx, mkay :P
19:35<NarkSlap>exactly
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>there is a blind programmer at my uni...
19:36<@Bjarni><mikl> he retired from OTTD after destroying the SVN repository, if memory serves <-- actually it was an external guy who gained access somehow and wrecked the server
19:36<AntB>thats gotta be a pain when debugging
19:36<NarkSlap>Oh
19:36<@Bjarni>we never figured out how :(
19:36<NarkSlap>:D
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>that's kind of like dancing with a wheelchair
19:36<mikl>Bjarni: oh - damn crackers...
19:37<ln->was it the evil Peer?
19:37<@Bjarni>we never figured out who did it
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>i'm not evil!
19:37<NarkSlap>:oo
19:37<@orudge>BOO!
19:37<@Bjarni>so you are all suspects
19:37<@Bjarni>you
19:37<@Bjarni>you
19:37<@Bjarni>and you too
19:38<NarkSlap>:D
19:38<Gonozal_VIII>me too :O
19:38[~]mikl not
19:38[~]orudge raves
19:38[~]mikl != mikl
19:38<+glx>I can't (I didn't even know about OTTD at that time)
19:38<mikl>joy is to post false statements on IRC
19:38<@orudge>woo, I may be working at Apple next summer :D
19:38<@Bjarni>mikl: you are in the clear... you wouldn't be able to log in even if it didn't have a password :P
19:38<@Bjarni>wtf
19:38<Sacro>i might do GSOC over summer
19:39<@Bjarni>sounds like something exploded outside
19:39<@Bjarni>brb
19:39<@orudge>I exploded, sorry.
19:39[~]mikl skulks around Bjarnis house
19:39<mikl>or is it skulks around around?
19:39<@Bjarni>nothing to see
19:41<@Bjarni>nothing is burning
19:41<Gonozal_VIII>it was a nuclear bomb, you are dead now... you've gone to hell, you have to stay in this channel forever and look at goatse links and you can never log out
19:41<@Bjarni>if this was hell then I wouldn't be op
19:41<@Bjarni>or maybe I would
19:41<@Bjarni>then I had to decide who to kick
19:41<@Bjarni>which can be a real pain
19:41<@orudge>it's quite obvious
19:41<@orudge>Born_Acorn released the virus
19:42<@orudge>that crazy foo'
19:42<@Bjarni>was it also Born_Acorn who placed a bomb on the school last week?
19:42|-|AntB changed nick to Guest281
19:42|-|AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.83.182] has joined #openttd
19:42<mikl>good thing one isn't Born_Acorn
19:42<@Bjarni>mikl: was it you?
19:43|-|helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:43<mikl>I suppose it's better to be a crazy foo than to be a crazy bar
19:43|-|helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd
19:43<mikl>man, I really should go sleep before I get eaten by a raging mob
19:44<mikl>or something like that
19:44<@Bjarni>you are that evil?
19:44<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm bed... i have to get up in 5h...
19:44<@Bjarni>mikl: I have a tip for you then.... stay up
19:44<@Bjarni>sunlight kills you
19:44<@Bjarni>so sleep during the day
19:44[~]AntB agrees with Bjarni
19:45<mikl>I would. No matter what I do, I'll be tired for work tomorrow
19:45<@Bjarni>work?
19:45<@Bjarni>do you operate chainsaws and stuff?
19:45<mikl>no, accounting...
19:45<@Bjarni>chainsaws are more fun if you are sleepy
19:45<mikl>phear the accountant
19:45<@Bjarni>for the rest of us that is
19:46<mikl>and I have to install the latest version of Microsoft Navision... Oh joy
19:46<+glx>what's that?
19:46<mikl>glx: ERP
19:46<AntB>its microsoft, nuff said :D
19:47<mikl>I think the new official name is Microsoft Business Solutions NAV 5.0
19:47<Gonozal_VIII>bed... night all
19:47|-|Guest281 [~AntB-UK@81.140.83.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47|-|Gonozal_VIII [user@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com]
19:47<mikl>my employer has chosen it for our finances, sadly
19:48<@Bjarni>what did you do to make him so upset with you?
19:49<mikl>It's actually not bad...
19:49<mikl>I haven't seen the new version yet, though
19:49|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
19:49<+glx>well, knowing MS, it can be worse than the previous one ;)
19:50<mikl>it's mainly a glorified spreadsheet
19:50<mikl>but the bugs I've found in a few years of use are only on nuisance-level
19:50<mikl>like the binding of the same accelerator-key for different purposes
19:51<mikl>in some windows, Alt-N means two different things at once
19:51<+glx>nice
19:51<mikl>and stuff like that...
19:51<@Bjarni>and their beta testers didn't figure this out?
19:52<+glx>they are not real users
19:52<mikl>Bjarni: apparently not. And it did not get fixed in SP1 or SP2
19:52<mikl>we hope it's been done in 5.0
19:52<+glx>did you report it to MS?
19:53<mikl>we reported it to our "partner"
19:53<mikl>i.e. Microsofts partners that handles customers for them and charges an extortionate amount of money for it
19:54<+glx>and don't do anything escept taking money :)
19:54<mikl>there's also this bug I found last year: http://mikkel.hoegh.org/galleries/odd_stuff/navision_crap?size=_original
19:54<mikl>the only fix is to delete your preferences file...
19:55<mikl>which means you'll have to set up all your personal config once over
19:55<@Bjarni>goodnight
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19:56<mikl>"Hmm, what if we made the sidebar super wide - like 300% the window size - wouldn't that be fun?"
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20:16<SmatZ>night
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20:26[~]orudge closes Sacro's connection remotely
20:30<Sacro>rwar
20:30<@orudge>zwip
20:30<+glx>awce
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20:31<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... why is there a "for (;;)" in IsRoadAllowedHere (town_cmd.cpp around line 713)
20:32<ln->for the smilies?
20:33<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: turing completeness testing
20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>but "for" does not indicate turing completeness, usually you need "while" for that
20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>of course in the case of C, "for" is simulated with "while"
20:36<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: it's claimed that some compilers generate faster code with "for(;;)" than "while(1)"
20:36<ln->old ones
20:36<Sacro>meh
20:36<Sacro>goto is better
20:36<Eddi|zuHause2>in theoretical computer science, a "for-language" can describe primitive-recursive functions, a "while-language" can describe partial-recursive functions
20:36<Eddi|zuHause2>the latter ones are turing complete
20:37|-|Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:37<Eddi|zuHause2>note that in theoretical computer science, "recursive functions" are partial-recursive functions that terminate on all inputs
20:38<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: that function also uses a goto
20:38[~]Sacro <3 goto
20:38<Sacro>so useful
20:38<Eddi|zuHause2>and i can see absolutely no reason for the loop...
20:39<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: let me guess: it was that way in the original game.
20:39<ln->Sacro: with setjmp/longjmp you can achieve even more bizarre code.
20:39<Sacro>ln-: i don't think C# allows that
20:40<Sacro>it makes me use /unsafe on the compiler :(
20:41<+glx>ln-: we removed most setjmp/longjmp
20:41<+glx>the remaining are needed by libpng
20:45<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... in GrowTownInTile, line 993, why is there an unconditional LevelTownLand(tile) before placing a road?
20:46<Eddi|zuHause2>removing that produces much nicer towns...
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20:49<ln->Sacro: you aren't using Microsoft-only languages, are you?
20:49<Sacro>ln-: err...
20:49<Sacro>*hides*
20:49<Sacro>actually, no, all my code so far compiles using Mono
20:50<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i can't seem to access grfcrawler...
20:51<Sacro>damn sharepoint
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20:52<Eddi|zuHause2>orudge is sitting on the cable i assume :p
20:53<Sacro>he is quite fat
21:01<Eddi|zuHause2>everything seems extremely slow...
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22:25<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... this is weird...
22:25<Eddi|zuHause2>i loaded PBI and the Brick Chain as industry grf
22:26<Eddi|zuHause2>and DBSetXL with the ECS Extension
22:26<Eddi|zuHause2>this added Lumber and Gravel to the refit options for the low side wagon
22:26<Eddi|zuHause2>but there is no way to transport clay...
22:28<Eddi|zuHause2><sarcasm>I DEMAND A FIX FOR THIS IMMEDIATELY</sarcasm>
22:31<Tefad_>i don't think ECS and PBI mods play together
22:32<Tefad_>you need DBSetXL with PBI extension ; )
22:32<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not an ECS grf, it's the grf that adds ECS goods to the refit options of DBSetXL
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 05 00:00:52 2007