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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-09

---Logopened Sun Dec 09 00:00:21 2007
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01:58<TheJosh>hey
02:00<TheJosh>whats peoples thoughts on a patch that would allow a trigger system to be set up for a scenario, so that actions can be fired when events happen? kinda like starcraft
02:01<TheJosh>1 ore more conditions which all have to be met, and one or more actions (probably DoCommands) which happen one after another
02:05<TheJosh>ung, no one is even here are they
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04:00<BiA|pavel-css>hi
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05:48<Wolf01>hello
05:48<BiA|pavel-css>hi
05:49<BiA|pavel-css>servers
05:49<BiA|pavel-css>!servers
05:49<BiA|pavel-css>!nightly
05:50<BiA|pavel-css>!wiki
05:50<BiA|pavel-css>does anythink work over here? ^^
05:50<BiA|pavel-css>!password
05:51<hylje>no
05:52<hylje>:P
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07:04<SmatZ>hello
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07:06<@Bjarni>hello SmatZ
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07:14<fjb>Moin
07:16<BiA|pavel-css>hi SmatZ :)
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07:27<Ploes>morning all
07:27<Ploes>any mods on the TT-Forms site about?
07:30<Ploes>well NR12 is posting randomly rude stuff again and there are no mods about! Please let them know if one turns up
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09:29<@Bjarni>http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/33656/f784b789/moraalridders_bij_de_dd.html <--- wtf... Donald Duck as a music pirate (in Dutch)... apparently they just printed this in NL
09:30<@Bjarni>back when I read Donald Duck magazines they went treasure hunting and had a fight with the guy next door and stuff like that
09:31<fjb>Music pirats are the badest criminals on earth. Didn't you know?
09:31|-|Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
09:32<Sacro>morning
09:32<@Bjarni>I didn't know that it was Scrooge McDuck who were behind the music industry
09:32<@Bjarni>but it sure sounds like him to sue people for every penny they got
09:32<fjb>Moin Sacro
09:32<fjb>:-)
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09:33<@Bjarni>well... Donald Duck was used as war propaganda during WW2
09:33<@Bjarni>I wonder if somebody is using him again
09:34<@Bjarni>did you guys read the story?
09:34<fjb>The music industry makes a lot of propaganda.
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09:34<@Bjarni>Let ook op de woorden in captial: \"GEDOWNLOAD\", \"RECHTEN\"
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09:37[~]Bjarni wonders why nobody said anything about the story being in Dutch
09:39<@Bjarni>since nobody complained then I presume that everybody can read it
09:40<Tefad>popeye too
09:40<Tefad>and good ol' bugs
09:40<@Bjarni>yeah... USA used everything in their propaganda
09:41<@Bjarni>"The spirit of '42" (or was it '43)
09:41<@Bjarni>buy war bonds
09:42<@Bjarni>every single dollar spent on (pleasure, but they used a different word) is a dollar spent on the Axis
09:42<@Bjarni>the door to the bar turned into a swastika and stuff like that
09:42<fjb>Bjarni: That story is not hard to understand, even in Dutch.
09:42<@Bjarni>fjb: agreed :)
09:43<@Bjarni>Dutch isn't that hard to understand when reading it. It's somewhat more tricky to understand their speech
09:43<fjb>Where is my red marker? Bjarni is agreeing with me.
09:44<@Bjarni>Dutch is kind of like a mix of Danish, German and English. Knowing all 3 of them makes it possible to read even though I never tried to learn Dutch
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09:44<@Bjarni>fjb: red? RED?
09:45<@Bjarni>red is the colour of a mistake
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09:45<@Bjarni>and do you claim me to be mistaken?
09:45<Sacro>yes
09:45<Sacro>always
09:45|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [wrong answer]
09:45<Tefad>what's up with that one
09:46<@Bjarni>with the DD comic?
09:46<Tefad>sacro.
09:46<@Bjarni>ahh
09:46<@Bjarni>that's a better question
09:46<@Bjarni>I wish I knew the answer
09:47<@Bjarni>then I would get the Nobel price in psychiatry
09:47<Tefad>if there was one
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09:47<Sacro>oh well
09:47<@Bjarni>they would make it
09:47[~]Sacro fail
09:47<fjb>Bjarni: Knowing german and English is all you need to read Dutch.
09:47<Tefad>appears so
09:48<@Bjarni>fjb: sometimes Danish words shows up
09:48<@Bjarni>but yes I guess you can do without it
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09:50<LeviathNL>http://sandervdm.blogspot.com/2007/06/spirit-of-43-old-mcdonald-had-some.html
09:51<@Bjarni>I like how they consider the song texts to be worth €20
09:52<@Bjarni>so it was '43 :)
09:52<@Bjarni>I don't know if it's downright banned but they never showed it here
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09:55<Sacro>Bjarni: wtf did you use before 20?
09:55<Sacro>i got a with caret ,¬
09:55<@Bjarni>ohh... "Der Fuehrer's Face". That one is not that close to reality either
09:55<@Bjarni>Sacro: €
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09:55<Sacro>Bjarni: what name doth it go by?
09:56[~]Bjarni slaps Sacro with an UTF-8 encoding
09:56<@Bjarni>Sacro: Euro
09:57<Sacro>ooh
09:57<Sacro>fix'd
09:57<@Bjarni>test €
09:57<fjb>Bjarni: Give me some more ?. :-)
09:57<Sacro>working under irrsi in putty
09:58<Tefad>working under irssi in xterm here
09:58<Sacro>send me another
09:59<fjb>?
09:59<Sacro>no, thats a question mark
09:59<Sacro>i hope
09:59<fjb>That's an Omega.
09:59<Sacro>really?
10:00<Tefad>你的母亲是一个仓鼠
10:00<fjb>Yes. Ask Bjarni.
10:00<Tefad>it's a question mark here too
10:00<Sacro>Tefad: that's just squares
10:00<Sacro>fjb: as you may not have noticed, i don't actually trust Bjarni
10:01<fjb>Who trusts Bjarni, or better, who trusts you?
10:01<Tefad>this is omega: Ω
10:01<fjb>Yes, that is also an Omega.
10:01<Tefad>what you typed was a question mark.
10:02<Tefad>you've typed two odly placed question marks so far
10:02<fjb>I typed an Omega. Some characters have more than one Unicode encoding.
10:02<Sacro>индеед
10:03<Tefad>cyrillic : )
10:03<Tefad>indeed?
10:03<fjb>Yes, but sadly I never learned cyrillic.
10:03<Tefad>neither did i
10:03<Sacro>me neiether
10:03<Tefad>i have picked up on a few of the letter sounds though
10:04<Sacro>ᑦᓱᐅᒡᔅ ᑦᓯᔅ ᐃᔅ ᑉᕐeᑦᑦᔾ
10:04<Tefad>all i get is the e : \
10:05<fjb>Hm, hard to describe what is is. Some curves, two triangles, an e and some other things.
10:05<Sacro>fjb: what font?
10:05<Tefad>fjb: i think your target encoding is wrong
10:06<Tefad>if you're using mIRC i've had bad experiences with gettings its config proprly set
10:06<Tefad>gettings? getting.
10:08<fjb>Hm, that is just called Sans Serif. I will try to find out who did that font.
10:08<Tefad>i use efont
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10:12<@Bjarni>back
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10:13<fjb>front
10:14<@Bjarni><Tefad> 你的母亲是一个仓鼠 <-- what are you trying to say?
10:14<fjb>??
10:14<@Bjarni>¿¿
10:14<@Bjarni>mirror, mirror on the wall...
10:14<fjb>Bjarni: two australian question marks.
10:15<@Bjarni>actually they are Spanish
10:15<fjb>:-)
10:15<@Bjarni>hmm
10:15<@Bjarni>¿ = gone fishing
10:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11605 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1482, FS#1523]: wrong count of Kirby trains when a ship was build.
10:16<fjb>:-)
10:16<fjb>Oh Rubidium found it.
10:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11606 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp stdafx.h): -Revert (r11584): since FS#1482 is solved, we do not need the extra checking and such anymore.
10:19<BiA|pavel-css>what's FS#1482 or any number? :)
10:20<Rubidium>technobabble
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10:21<BiA|pavel-css>:) can i see somewhere what's hidden under it?
10:21<Rubidium>yes
10:22[~]glx points BiA|pavel-css to http://bugs.openttd.org
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10:24<LeviathNL>FS#1482 = FlySpray task-id 1482
10:24<LeviathNL>= http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1482
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10:25<fjb>Rubidium: What was the problem with FS#1482, FS#1523?
10:27<@Bjarni>read the diff like the rest of us ;)
10:28<fjb>:-P
10:30<BiA|pavel-css>:)
10:31|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A40CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:31<skidd13>Hi
10:33<BiA|pavel-css>hi
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12:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11607 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
12:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Enumify the industry widgets
12:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: Enable doubleclick in the found new industries window to build an industries
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12:24<BiA|pavel-css>hey glx yesterday when you left ..... http://pavelg.wz.cz/ottd/prob/09.png :)
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12:38<LeviathNL>Wolf01, any progress on brickland?
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13:14<Rubidium>DaleStan, about random action 2: under what circumstances should these actions be called for industry (tiles)? From the documentation I understand that you always call the action for all industry tiles and the industry like you do for any callback, but it seems like that does not work as intended.
13:15<DaleStan>Rubidium: What do you mean by "called"?
13:17<Rubidium>that when the game 'triggers' one of the events described in the NewGRF spec you 'call' the action2 "stack"
13:19<Rubidium>for example: when I get the '256' tick trigger, what of the NewGRF do I have to 'call' (interpret). Only the action 2s for the industry's tiles or also the action 2s for the industry itself?
13:21<DaleStan>OK. When a trigger happens (for any feature), you process the action 2s for that item (and only that item). If/when a random 2 is hit that requests re-randomization based on that trigger, then the specified bits are randomized.
13:23<Rubidium>ok, so the action 2s of the industry are never called in the realm of random action 2? (There is a 'definition' of the Industries as feature, but there are no triggers associated with it)
13:23<DaleStan>So industries, with no triggers, would never have their action 2 stack queried for re-randomization, but it is (AIUI) possible/valid to put random 2s in there, with the bits randomized either on construction only, or when the industry's tiles have a type 83 random.
13:24<DaleStan>(Since industry-tile-83-random queries/modifies the same bits as industry-80-random queries.)
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13:26<Rubidium>okay, that clears some things up. Thanks a lot
13:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11608 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix: do not trigger industries, but only the industry's tiles.
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13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11609 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#1524]: wrong error messages were shown when trying to build some industries in the scenario editor.
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>did the forum just switch to arctic climate :S
14:10<SpComb>yeah
14:11<SpComb>just wait for easter, and they'll go into toyland mode
14:11<BiA|pavel-css>:)
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14:14<Gonozal_VIII_>does any other isp except mine reconnect you every 8h with a different ip?
14:14<Gonozal_VIII_>that sucks...
14:14<fjb>My isp does so every 24 hours.
14:15<Eddi|zuHause2>8h is insane...
14:16<BiA|pavel-css>my server sux, my pc sux, i sux :(
14:16<Gonozal_VIII_>no
14:17<BiA|pavel-css>today, its correctly recieveing and sending packets, but ... ms dont see me even when server comunicate with it :/
14:17<BiA|pavel-css>Gonozal_VIII_: no? pc doesnt sux? :)
14:18<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII_> does any other isp except mine reconnect you every 8h with a different ip? <-- I don't have to reconnect at all
14:18<Gonozal_VIII_>no i wanted to type "you suck" instead of "you sux" ^^
14:18<BiA|pavel-css>Bjarni: same here :)
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14:19<@Bjarni>there is even a fair chance that I will get the same IP when I reconnect after turning off the computer (depending on how long it's turned off)
14:19<Gonozal_VIII_>my other connection doesn't reconnect either... it's over cable tv
14:26|-|Gonozal_VIII_ changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
14:28<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: you never seen the winter theme?
14:29<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know, i forget most things fast^^
14:30<BiA|pavel-css>:D
14:32<@Bjarni>you better remember what winter feels like (the bad parts of it) because according to Al Gore we will fry and drown and never see a winter again
14:32<Gonozal_VIII>yay never again winter :D
14:33<BiA|pavel-css>sounds good .)
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15:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11610 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Cleanup (r8572): remove orphan comment
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15:27<Gonozal_VIII>poor comment
15:28<+glx>it survived for more than 3000 revs
15:29<+glx>that's not bad :)
15:30<Gonozal_VIII>but.. but.. you killed an orphan!
15:34<@Bjarni>so?
15:34<@Bjarni>survival of the fittest
15:34<@Bjarni>it didn't fit in
15:34<@Bjarni>it's pure Darwinism
15:35<hylje>code darwinism
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>but it survived for 3000 revs without its parent function
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>it was a very strong comment
15:36<@Bjarni>not strong enough
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>you should have written some foster code for it
15:36<+glx>its parent was an include :)
15:37<@Bjarni>why was the code removed and not the comment?
15:40<BiA|pavel-css>lazy people? :)
15:42<Gonozal_VIII>src/orphanage.h
15:44<Rubidium>I prefer giving all orphan /dev/null as parent
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15:45<@Bjarni>bury him?
15:46<@Bjarni>we are too lazy to do that
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15:55<BiA|pavel-css>gn
15:55<Gonozal_VIII>night
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16:04<fjb>Is there a way to destroy a bridge that is owned by a town? Towns tend to build lots of stupid bridges.
16:06<+glx>magic bulldozer should do it
16:06<fjb>... without cheating?
16:06<+glx>remove more town owned maybe
16:07<fjb>How do you mean that?
16:08<Gonozal_VIII>configure patches
16:09<Gonozal_VIII>3rd option in construction tab
16:09<fjb>Ah, I found it. Great. thank you.
16:10<fjb>How about better bridges for towns? :-)
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>better bridges? you mean less?
16:11<Gonozal_VIII>some minimum distance between them would be good...
16:16<fjb>Yes, like the better road layouts.
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16:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11611 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp driver.h stdafx.h win32.cpp): -Codechange: it is now possible to use a define to enable asserts and show them in crash.log for MSVC release builds
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16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11612 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Change: update some documentation.
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16:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11613 /tags/0.6.0-beta2/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
16:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Release: 0.6.0-beta2.
16:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: The second beta with quite a lot of bugfixes since beta1 and a few smaller features.
16:39<Sacro>Rubidium: wooyay
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16:42<fjb>Great.
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16:51<@Bjarni>"and there was much rejoice"
16:52<@Bjarni>it's not done yet :P
16:52<@Bjarni>it takes a while to compile, upload and shit
16:52<Rubidium>especially upload
16:52<ln->Bjarni: have you ever been shooting with a machine gun?
16:53<@Bjarni>actually yes
16:53<Smoovious>maybe too much fiber
16:53<@Bjarni>but what kind of random question is that???
16:54<ln->an example of true randomness
16:54<@Bjarni>why did you ask? :)
16:55<ln->Bjarni: i've finished watching TNG, no more random trek quotes to paste. had to come up with something else.
16:56<Eddi|zuHause2>there's still DS9 and Voyager ;)
16:57<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, i'm expecting two DS9 boxes to arrive next week, beware. :)
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17:14<@Bjarni>speaking of firearms. I know a guy. During his military service they had to learn how to use pistols and the very first time he fired 3 shots. Then the target moved towards them (like they do on a shooting range to see how well you did) and at a distance the instructor saw only one hole so he said "you only hit once but at least it was a bull's eye". When it arrived they noticed that the hole was 3 holes on top of each other
17:14<@Bjarni>this guy could never repeat this though
17:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11614 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: The about dialog scrolling was connected to the mouse instead of the internal ticks
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17:16<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: [...] no more random trek quotes to paste. had to come up with something else. <-- that sounds sad
17:16<+michi_cc>Rubidium: 59eb68042c8b6279df65f96337cdb33f http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/openttd-0.6.0-beta2-win64.zip (and sf.net/incoming as well)
17:17<Rubidium>it's already done uploading?
17:18<@Bjarni>did michi_cc beat the rest of us to upload to SF?
17:18<@Bjarni>no wonder we didn't get any bandwidth
17:18<+michi_cc>yeah
17:18<Rubidium>two binaries?
17:19<Rubidium>what's different in the debug version?
17:19<@Bjarni>ln-: http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1chtJQFQNs <--- Star Trek seen with some new eyes... part 2 is the video response
17:19<+michi_cc>oops, that -dbg wasn't meant for sf.net, only my site. sorry
17:20<@Bjarni>ln-: they even missed one mistake. In Voyager they can't turn at warp speed (claiming it to be physically impossible) yet in the very first TNG episode Enterprise turns at warp speed
17:20<+michi_cc>it's the .pdb files from visual studio, I keep them in case it helps with some bug
17:20<Rubidium>anyhow, vaporised from sf
17:23<ln->Bjarni: they should have some 24th century physicists as consultants.
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17:30<@Bjarni>ln-: yeah... but when they time travel they aren't allowed to interfere with history. Altering a TV show with so many viewers seems like changing history
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17:51<+glx>@op
17:51|-|mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
17:51|-|[glx] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | And please, no YouTube links
17:51<@glx>@deop
17:51|-|mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
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17:56<macias>hi all,
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18:01<macias>please tell me what status do NoAI and cpp_gui branches have.
18:02<+glx>on hold
18:02<macias>resources are put to stabilizing release version?
18:03<+glx>cpp_gui will probably need a full restart
18:03<macias>I see
18:03<macias>but is there anybody who wants to do it?
18:04<+glx>and NoAI is updated when AI writers submit or request stuff
18:05<+glx>anyway cpp_gui will wait until 0.6.0 branching
18:05<+glx>(and maybe more ;) )
18:05<macias>so the attidue towards turning it alive is mixed?
18:06<macias>:D
18:07<Rubidium>both take an enormous amount of effort with little to no gain for the end user
18:07<Digitalfox>what about branch "map", why not delete it? Or is there still any interest on code that is in it?
18:07<Rubidium>why delete it?
18:07<Rubidium>deleting it only makes the svn repository larger
18:08<Digitalfox>really? Didn't know that, i thought it was the other way :\
18:08<macias>history for deleted objects is kept anyway
18:09<Rubidium>it's version control so it always remains in the repository
18:09<Digitalfox>So everytime a branch is deleted, it increases svn repository size?
18:09<Rubidium>yes
18:09<Brianetta>Every change does
18:09<Brianetta>Bear in mind that everything is un-doable, and you'll see why
18:10<+glx>a delete is a HUGE diff
18:10<Digitalfox>didn't know that .. :\
18:10<Digitalfox>Never will i say again the delete word for a branch :)
18:11<Digitalfox>By the way, what's the size of svn repository right now with all the files and history ?
18:11<+glx>Digitalfox: you can try :) remove src dir and check svn diff
18:12<Digitalfox>will try glx :)
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18:12<Rubidium>520 MB
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18:14<Digitalfox>Rubidium: oh i thought it was bigger with all that history stuff, thanks for sharing the size Rubidium :)
18:14<Rubidium>it can be much smaller with some other versioning systems
18:15<+glx>but other versioning systems don't have human readable "revision"
18:17<Smoovious>is that 520Mb (un)compressed?
18:21<@Bjarni>HDs are cheap today
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18:21<@Bjarni>so is bandwidth
18:21<@Bjarni>don't complain
18:25<Rubidium>as long as you don't do a checkout of the whole repository everything should be fine
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18:26<Rubidium>tss... still no beta2 servers
18:27<+glx>lol
18:27<SmatZ>:)
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18:29<@Bjarni>and no replies to the beta2 post on the forum
18:30<Smoovious>and its been well over a half-hour already!
18:30<@Bjarni>people are so slow
18:30<Rubidium>actually 113 minutes
18:30<SmatZ>http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35215 I wouldn't thing this can be a problem for people 8-)
18:30<SmatZ>*think
18:31<Smoovious>113 is well over a half-hour :P
18:31<SmatZ>blegh such an ugly typo
18:32<SmatZ>actually it is 113/60 of an hour
18:32<SmatZ>roughly 2 hoursy
18:32<@Bjarni>SmatZ: are you drunk?
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18:33<Smoovious>2 hours is still well over a half-hour :D
18:33<@Bjarni>wtf is that about bells... it's part of the game... then why remove them?
18:33<Smoovious>?!
18:33<Smoovious>what's wrong with the bells?
18:33<SmatZ>Bjarni: no
18:33<SmatZ>I just type really bad
18:33<@Bjarni>SmatZ: maybe you should be
18:34<SmatZ>why?
18:34<@Bjarni>Smoovious: <SmatZ> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35215 I wouldn't thing this can be a problem for people 8-)
18:34[~]Smoovious nods.
18:34<SmatZ>[00:30:54] <SmatZ> *think
18:34<SmatZ>[00:31:20] <SmatZ> blegh such an ugly typo
18:34<@Bjarni>SmatZ: looking at how you spell when you are sober makes me wonder if you got some sort of reversed spelling thing when it comes to being drunk
18:35<SmatZ>I am typing rather automatically... that's the reason why I type "train" instead of "tram" at many places
18:35<SmatZ>:)
18:35<@Bjarni>like when you code?
18:36<SmatZ>Bjarni: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1495 http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1485
18:36<@Bjarni>generally I wouldn't consider crossing bells to be an issue
18:36<@Bjarni>not even in real life
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18:37<@Bjarni>so far I have only noticed one house that I say would be really annoyed by noise. It's like 3 meters from a sign that tells the train to use the horn due to the crossing up ahead
18:37<Smoovious>hahaha
18:38<Smoovious>that's gotta suck
18:38<Smoovious>like, 'why couldn't I have moved near the airport'
18:38<@Bjarni>it's only for trains in one direction
18:38<@Bjarni>and usually once every hour
18:39<@Bjarni>and the horns aren't that powerful. This isn't America
18:39<Smoovious>just enough time to get to sleep then
18:39<Smoovious>oh ok... so you can't hear em 5 miles away
18:40<@Bjarni>but when I noticed I was like... "ok, that's a really bad placement but the sign is older than the house"
18:40<@Bjarni>why did they build the house there??? I mean it's not like it's in a big city... it looks more like a forest
18:41<Smoovious>maybe the lot price was cheap
18:41<@Bjarni>actually I don't think they cared much
18:42<@Bjarni>it wasn't until fairly recently that people started to complain about noise and now they complain about everything
18:43<@Bjarni>however I agree with this one "the new trains are way more noisy than the old ones and they are it in a much higher pitch so it's way more annoying"
18:43<@Bjarni>so they wake up everybody at 5 A.M.
18:43<@Bjarni>the old ones didn't do that
18:45<Smoovious>commuter type trains?
18:45<@Bjarni>yes
18:45<@Bjarni>they purchased some sort of DMU
18:45<Smoovious>ahh
18:45<@Bjarni>no catenary so it had to be diesel
18:45<@Bjarni>but the brakes whine when they stop :(
18:46[~]Smoovious nods.
18:46<@Bjarni>and they are way too noisy when they start up and heats up in the morning
18:46<Smoovious>oh man...
18:46<@Bjarni>now the solution to the last one is to start them up in the countryside... or something
18:46<Smoovious>my ttruck hates starting up cold
18:46<@Bjarni>I wonder why they don't preheat
18:47<Smoovious>noisy as hell you think the truck is falling apart, and the stacks put out so much smoke while it is warming up, I white-out the whole lot if I'm up-wind
18:47<@Bjarni>sounds healthy :P
18:47<@Bjarni>both for you and your car
18:48<Smoovious>oh yeah... got out of the truck to see if it was on fire... as did a bunch of other truckers too...
18:48<@Bjarni>why don't you have a preheater?
18:48<Smoovious>(it is old, due to be retired)
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18:48<@Bjarni>ahh
18:48<Smoovious>cuz the company who owns the truck is too cheap...
18:49<@Bjarni>it's an expensive place to save money
18:49<Smoovious>the electrical system couldn't handle it anyways... even doing 70 down the freeway, I sometimes can't generaate enough power to use my map lights...
18:49<@Bjarni>the preheater uses less diesel than a cold start and the engine lasts longer if it's not allowed to start cold
18:49<Smoovious>yeah, but the generator (APU) costs $10,000
18:50<Smoovious>they'll only put them on the trucks for their million-mile drivers
18:50<@Bjarni>we have preheaters on a locomotive that
18:50<@Bjarni>bahh
18:50<@Bjarni>' and enter next to each other
18:51<@Bjarni>we have preheaters on a locomotive that's way cheaper than $10,000
18:51<Osai>Rubidium: are you still awake?
18:51<Smoovious>if I owned the truck, I could get one put on for about $6,000, all charges included
18:51<@Bjarni>it's made out of an oil burner that burns diesel. A pump pumps the cooling water though it
18:51<@Bjarni>and that's it
18:52<Smoovious>but the company, would go through the dealership the trucks came from, by contract
18:52<@Bjarni>it can get the engine from cold to operational temperature on battery power only
18:52<Smoovious>yeah, my batteries would die out too quick for that
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18:52<Smoovious>its a piece of crap truck ... but being entry-level, I expected that
18:53<@Bjarni>and here is the good part: it has a battery of it's own so the start engine gets power from a different set of batteries so you are sure not to kill your batteries before starting
18:53<@Bjarni><Smoovious> its a piece of crap truck <-- does that include the brakes as well?
18:54<Gonozal_VIII>you'll arrive much faster without brakes
18:54<@Bjarni>or not at all
18:55<Smoovious>Bjarni... well... the brakes aren't as bad... they at least get regular attention, even if I have to adjust the slack adjusters myself... but they could be better too
18:56<@Bjarni>do you make a daily inspection of bolts and brakes and stuff?
18:56<@Bjarni>or is that a train only thing?
18:57[~]Sacro starts his Open Source Train Sim
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18:57<@Bjarni>Sacro: like I said on the forum: it's not a simulation ;)
18:57<Sacro>Bjarni: no, this isn't OpenTTD
18:58<@Bjarni>oh
18:58<Sacro>this is a project i'm starting
18:58<Smoovious>well, you're supposed to do a full inspection at the beginning and end of each day of driving...
18:58<fjb>Hm, how far does the train pathfinder look ahead?
18:58<@Bjarni>then what is it?
18:58<Sacro>Open Source train Sim
18:58<Sacro>with hopefully signalling sim too
18:58<Smoovious>but some stuff I only check once a week, or during a fuel stop
18:58<@Bjarni><fjb> Hm, how far does the train pathfinder look ahead? <-- check openttd.cfg
18:58<@Bjarni>I think you can adjust it yourself if you like
18:59<Smoovious>the brakes, cargo securement, lights, etc, etc, I check each trip, and every 150 miles or 3 hours, whichever comes first
18:59<@Bjarni>what kind of cargo do you have?
19:00<Smoovious>it varies a lot... I have a flatbed
19:00<@Bjarni>ahh
19:00<@Bjarni>it's easier for me
19:00<Smoovious>last load was drilling pipe
19:00<@Bjarni>I only have livestock
19:00<@Bjarni>err... passengers
19:00<@Bjarni>same thing :P
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>^^
19:00<Smoovious>ahh... constant load shifting
19:01<Smoovious>too bad you can't strap em in and put a tarp over em
19:01<fjb>Bjarni: The pathfinder doesn't check if it chooses a platform with an exit in the desired direction?
19:01<@Bjarni>no
19:01<fjb>Bad. :-(
19:01<@Bjarni>I mean
19:02<@Bjarni>it doesn't look forward in the orders to figure out how to go to the next station
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>you have to use waypoints for that
19:02<fjb>Then I have to use distributed waypoints...
19:03<@Bjarni><Smoovious> ahh... constant load shifting <-- actually this doesn't matter. If it should matter then comfort is long gone
19:03<@Bjarni>ohh we have seasonal stuff too
19:03<Gonozal_VIII>multi track waypoints would be nice... and diagonal ones... i have lots of diagonal rail
19:03<@Bjarni>aka the passengers Christmas trees
19:04<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> multi track waypoints would be nice... and diagonal ones... i have lots of diagonal rail <-- planned feature
19:04<@Bjarni>it has been planned for more than 2 years now
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>^^
19:04<fjb>:-)
19:04<Smoovious>well, load-shifting is a big danger in flat-bedding... we're usually top-heavy
19:05<fjb>I have no room to add the nedded waypoints... :-(
19:05<@Bjarni>passenger cars has to be strong enough for situations where all the passengers do something silly like all move to the same side
19:05<Gonozal_VIII>i mean, i can just use a station with non stop order for normal waypointing... but not diagonal
19:06<Smoovious>well, they're strong enough... but as the weight moves aroundd, the trailer handles differently... and you gotta be ready for it
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>it's a train... it has rails
19:06<@Bjarni>here is the solution: use the railroad: they should stay on the track
19:07<Smoovious>ya
19:07<@Bjarni>if not then you are screwed whatever you do
19:07<Smoovious>um, yeah... they kinda frown on tractor trailers around here, driving on the rails... gets them all uppity...
19:08<@Bjarni>Smoovious: you know you emit more than your share of CO2
19:08<@Bjarni>using that truck
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19:09<Smoovious>yeah, I know... the newer trucks are built to the more recent emissions standards... but they don't give the new trucks to the new employees
19:09<Gonozal_VIII>yes, better breath less to make up for that
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19:10<@Bjarni>you should use railroads more
19:10<Smoovious>I agree
19:10<Gonozal_VIII>everybody should use railroads more
19:10<Smoovious>find it hheartbreaking every time I see an abandoned section of rail
19:11<Smoovious>there are countries that are worse on emissions than we are tho
19:11<Smoovious>China for instance
19:11[~]Bjarni imagines what would happen if there was a ban on moving stuff more than 100 miles on trucks if there is a railroad that can be used instead
19:11<Gonozal_VIII>traffic increases everywhere... except on rails, they close them down..
19:11<@Bjarni>we increase traffic on the rails
19:12<Smoovious>hell, past several years, Coal stopped being the #1 cargo on the rails here... Intermodal is in the #1 spot now... imagine of all of that container traffic was on the highways instead
19:13<Gonozal_VIII>they only renew mainlines for faster passenger service between big cities...
19:14<Smoovious>personally, I think our passenger rail should be built back up again significantlly... trying to fly is a big joke... and forget about making a connecting flight unless you got a few hours in between landing and taking off
19:14<@Bjarni>we have a steel mill here and the production was loaded on a train once a day. It was the only train in the country scheduled to always have more than one locomotive and then the new manager on the railroad decided to go for passenger traffic only
19:14<Sacro>xenu
19:14<Sacro>aww :(
19:14<@Bjarni>as a result all the steel are now on ships... but people really feared for lorries because there was no way the roads could handle that
19:15<@Bjarni>not to mention what would happen to accidents with so heavy vehicles on the roads
19:15<Smoovious>well, actually... empty trucks are more dangerous
19:15<@Bjarni>yeah
19:15<Smoovious>less traction, and the brakes are much easier to lock up and jackkniife
19:15<@Bjarni>last week an empty truck tipped over due to the wind
19:16<Smoovious>and in the snow and rain, you want to be almost up to gross
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19:16<@Bjarni>well the point was that when they hit something it the added weight would matter
19:16<@Bjarni>this is about the time of impact not the time before the impact trying to avoid it
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19:17<@Bjarni>steel is kind of heavy... the ships are filled like 10% of the cargo hold's size and then they got full cargo weight
19:18<Smoovious>well, by then it is too late anyways... we focus on what leads to it, since that's where we still have some ability to control it
19:19<Smoovious>yeah, I took a single flat piece of steel that weighed about 45,000 pounds... pushed me up to around 73,000 pounds gross
19:19<Smoovious>max without a permit is 80,000
19:19<@Bjarni>http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/dk/private/GDS-HFHJ/mx19_2.jpg <-- here it is
19:19<@Bjarni>even with 3 locomotives
19:19<@Bjarni>as you can see they make steel bars, not plates
19:20<Smoovious>the load was only 2" tall, and was about 2/3 thhe length of t he trailer
19:20<@Bjarni>2" as in 2 inches?
19:21<Smoovious>yeah... the plate I was taking, was going to a machining place, who would cut out the parts it was making from t he plate
19:21<@Bjarni>this is clearly a job for a railroad
19:21<Smoovious>we take bars too... I-beams... steel rails and wheels, and wheelsets...
19:21<Smoovious>yes, 2 inches
19:21<@Bjarni>I mean if it's a workshop needing plates of that size on a regular basis
19:22<Smoovious>the shop has no nearby rail access tho...
19:23<Smoovious>I think they used to, until the mainline was abandoned
19:23<Gonozal_VIII>see? baaaad
19:23<@Bjarni>they gave up on the Donner Pass as well
19:23<Smoovious>I agree
19:23<@Bjarni>but I think that was due to massive snowfall
19:24<Smoovious>there is still rail through Donner... quite busy too
19:24<@Bjarni>they use a tunnel a bit more to the south today
19:24<Smoovious>yeah, the heavier trains go to the tunnel
19:24<@Bjarni>I think all of them use the tunnel today
19:24<Smoovious>but the intermodal trains run through the pass quite a bit
19:25<@Bjarni>I have seen pictures of the Donner Pass where the trains wouldn't be able to pass anymore
19:25<Smoovious>I've driven through the pass 3 times now... saw a lot of medium length trains, with 2 locos on each end, running through... all intermodal
19:25<@Bjarni>the snow conquered the area again
19:25<Smoovious>that isn't permanent tho...
19:25<@Bjarni>like it did to the Donner Party 150 years ago
19:26<Smoovious>they just gotta get the snow machines out and cleear it
19:26<@Bjarni>yeah... but they decided to use the tunnel
19:26<Smoovious>the Donner Party didn't have the resources
19:26<@Bjarni>or a clue to where they were supposed to go
19:26<@Bjarni>didn't know the area well enough
19:26<Smoovious>kinda hard to compare a wagon train with rail
19:27<@Bjarni>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Pass <-- "Donner Lake (left) and the now abandoned original CPRR (later SPRR; UPRR) Track #1 grade over Donner Pass."
19:30<@Bjarni>http://trains.com/ctr/objects/images/southern_pacific_railroad_rotarty_snow_plow_2.jpg <-- reaching the Donner Pass in 1952 when the City of San Francisco train got stuck
19:30<@Bjarni>that's a lot of snow
19:31<Smoovious>ahh... ok... didn't know about the track#1 location... the one I was thinking of was probably the track#2 location... running back and forth across I-80
19:31<@Bjarni>track#1 was the original one
19:31<@Bjarni>the hardest one to make
19:32<Smoovious>the tunnel entrances look wierd... the normal curved top to them, with notches cut through to accomodate the double-stacked intermodal cars
19:32<Smoovious>yeah... and too steep a grade too
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19:32<@Bjarni>http://cprr.org/Museum/Summit_Tunnel_1999/index.html <-- finally found the picture gallery I was thinking about
19:37[~]fjb hates lost trains. They never go to the empty platform, blocking every platform exit instead. :-(
19:37<@Bjarni>that depends on your layout
19:37<@Bjarni>with the right layout they wouldn't be lost in the first place
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>i never have lost trains
19:37[~]Smoovious nods.
19:38<Gonozal_VIII>:D
19:38<@Bjarni>hehe
19:38<fjb>I had to do some work on the layout, trying to create waypoints with stations. The trains got lost while I was working.
19:38<@Bjarni>Just imagined what Smoovious must look like
19:39<@Bjarni>fat, smelly and a beard all the way to the belly button
19:39<@Bjarni>I mean... a trucker
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>^^
19:39<@Bjarni>and I'm right unless proven wrong :P
19:40<Gonozal_VIII>always a porn magazine on the steering wheel while driving...
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19:43[~]Smoovious shakes his head.
19:44<@Bjarni>http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/features/03-large/road-train-beardy.jpg <-- here is a picture of a college of yours
19:44<@Bjarni>he only need a bit longer beard
19:44<Gonozal_VIII>then where else do you keep your porn? pin it to the windshield?^^
19:44<Smoovious>my beard is never more than a couple inches long... enough to keep my face warm in the winter... and I get a shower at least 4 times a week...
19:44<Smoovious>can't always park at a truck stop
19:44<Smoovious>I got long hair past my waist
19:45<Smoovious>dunno where you guys get your images of truckers
19:45<Smoovious>only been a trucker for 3 months
19:45<@Bjarni>http://www.channel4.com/4car/gl/gallery/gallery/588/ <-- here
19:46<@Bjarni>Overtake? : "Some drivers just won't pass us, they are too scared"
19:46<Smoovious>most truckers I met have short hair, and clean shaven... maybe the dry-box drivers are all overweight, but the flat-bedders aren't
19:47<Gonozal_VIII>i hate it when truckers overtake each other on a 2 lane highway...
19:47<@Bjarni>why are dry box drivers more fat than flat bed drivers?
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19:47<Smoovious>because all they have to do is park the trailer, drop the trailer, hook up to it
19:47<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: we banned it here at certain locations (mainly high traffic areas)
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19:48<@Bjarni>Smoovious: all you mean they don't have to get up while you have to work on your load too?
19:48<Smoovious>they don't have to wrestlte with 80# tarps, 90# chains and binders, set their boards, secure their loads with winches, etc
19:48<@Bjarni>s/all/ahh
19:48<Smoovious>flatbed is physically demanding work
19:49<Smoovious>if ya don't like getting dirty, or physical work, don't do flatbed
19:49<@Bjarni>I saw a police tape on TV. They watched a wide load flatbed truck start and watched them for a while and said "I think they can do well on their own... they look like they can handle it"... a few sec later the load hits a tree or something and shifts
19:49<@Bjarni>the police decided to stay with them XD
19:50<Smoovious>yeah... that's one of the dangers...
19:50<Smoovious>usually caused by laziness of the driver...
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19:51<@Bjarni><Smoovious> if ya don't like getting dirty, or physical work, don't do flatbed <-- you say that to me who lubes locomotives from below even if there aren't a pit below them.... I get my share of being dirty and hard to access stuff
19:51<Smoovious>Bjarni... yeah, but I know you don't do trucks too :)
19:51<@Bjarni>and then I.. well... didn't think highly of the guy complaining that the pit was too small
19:51<Sacro>lubing a train?
19:51<Sacro>does that make it go into tunnels better?
19:52<@Bjarni>Sacro: well.... I imagine you see it as a long and hard thing
19:52<Smoovious>most truck drivers running dry box, would just wait for a service vehicle to come out and do it for them... hell, most of em don't even carry a spare tire anymore
19:52<@Bjarni>but...
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19:52<@Bjarni>I'm actually talking about bearings
19:52<@Bjarni>wheels, traction engines and such
19:53<@Bjarni>.... no spare tire...
19:53<@Bjarni>btw if you puncture how do you replace the tire
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19:53<Smoovious>I gotta climb under the trailer, regardless of the weather, and re-adjust the brakes on the trailer daily... sometimes twice a day, if I'm going to be going through steep grades... when thhe lot is slushy, it is no fun, but rather do that than end up with no brakes when I need em most
19:53<@Bjarni>I mean it's not like a normal car where you can just add a small jack and lift it by hand
19:55<Smoovious>gotta use a larger jack on one of the lift points... air-powered... hook it up to the air lilne on the tractor's frame
19:55<Smoovious>usually wait for a service vehicle to come out tho... the wheels are quite heavy
19:57<Smoovious>but if only one of the tires on a dual goes out, you can still drive to the nearest truck stop/tire shop
19:58<Smoovious>some trucks are switching to the single extra-wide tires tho... might save some weight, but if one goes out, no redundancy... personally, I'd rather have the redundancy
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>does it even matter if one of the wheels doesn't work?
19:59<Smoovious>yeah
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>i saw a 10km long rubber trail on the road here, i guess some truck had a blocked brake on one wheel or something, didn't stop him
20:00<Smoovious>you end up having too much weight on the remaining wheels in that spot... making it more likely to blow out... so ya wanna switch out the bad one asafp... especially if you're running heavy
20:00<Smoovious>uh huh... and that was a stupid thing to dod
20:01<Smoovious>-d
20:04<@Bjarni>well... sometimes people do stupid stuff
20:04<Sionide>"there are no stupid questions, just stupid people"
20:05<@Bjarni>I know of an incident where one brake jammed and kept on braking on a train. Since it was a long train the driver didn't notice so the brake became rather hot
20:05<@Bjarni>and started making sparks (like you see on movies)
20:05<@Bjarni>and started like 8 fires
20:05<@Bjarni>before the train was stopped
20:05<@Bjarni>tough luck
20:06<Gonozal_VIII>fires? trees next to the rail?
20:06<@Bjarni>funny thing is that they changed the rules for steam trains after that even though it was a diesel train
20:06<Smoovious>yeah... saw a truck a couple days ago throwing sparks from his trailer brake...
20:06<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> fires? trees next to the rail? <-- I imagine some sparks has hit some dry leaves or dry grass or something
20:07<@Bjarni>I once saw a car throwing sparks from the exhaust pipe
20:07<@Bjarni>that didn't look healthy for the car
20:07<Gonozal_VIII>how's that possible?
20:07<@Bjarni>could even be a fire in the exhaust pipe
20:07<Smoovious>not enough oil
20:08<@Bjarni>really poor burning in the engine so that flammable black stuff ends up in the exhaust pipe
20:08<Gonozal_VIII>without enough oil the engine gets stuck but that wouldn't cause sparks out of the exhaust pipe
20:08<@Bjarni>the engine heats up first
20:09<@Bjarni>an overheated engine can do this too
20:09<Gonozal_VIII>hmm
20:09<@Bjarni>maybe the cooling system was broken
20:09<Smoovious>you get friction and engine damage first before it locks up
20:09<+glx>and nice white smoke
20:09<@Bjarni>glx: sounds like you tried it :P
20:10<+glx>or maybe a mix of white and blue
20:10<Gonozal_VIII>who would keep on driving then?^^
20:10<@Bjarni>blueish smoke indicates that the engine is burning lube oil
20:11<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> who would keep on driving then?^^ <-- some people do... a fair amount of fatal breakdowns are due to people ignoring warnings
20:11<Gonozal_VIII>in a modern car you would have to ignore a lot of warnings...
20:12<Smoovious>nah... just gotta ignore one little 'check engine' idiot light
20:12<Gonozal_VIII>oil pressure and temperature...
20:12<+glx>it's a red light, like the break one
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20:13<@Bjarni>I once borrowed a car and I got the message "the handbrake indicator is broken. Sometimes it turns on at random"
20:13<@Bjarni>.... and the owner didn't want to fix this?
20:13<Gonozal_VIII>i hardly ever use the handbrake, i wouldn't fix that indicator either
20:13<+glx>false positive, or worse?
20:14<@Bjarni>false positive but since it happened all the time you wouldn't know when it was for real
20:14<Gonozal_VIII>you see the brake handle stick up...
20:14<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: handbrake is the 'tester' for other brake control indicator
20:14<@Bjarni>since the 3rd gear was broken I decided to go though the car before driving... to check security in it
20:15<@Bjarni>brakes, lights and stuff worked perfectly
20:15<@Bjarni>but I would never ignore failures like that in a vehicle...
20:16<+glx>don't forget to check tires too
20:16<@Bjarni>the owner just said (about the transmission) "the bolt is loose again"... that was enough for him to know... he didn't actually do anything about it
20:16<Gonozal_VIII>it's not that much of a problem if you try to drive with the handbrake
20:17<@Bjarni><glx> don't forget to check tires too <-- they are supposed to be completely flat to ensure as big a contact with the road as possible, right?
20:17<Gonozal_VIII>right
20:17<@Bjarni>this reminds me of a time at school
20:18<@Bjarni>we learned about tires and safety and how worn they are allowed to be before they needs to be replaced and the teacher got the bright idea to go to the parking lot and measure the tires on the cars there
20:18<@Bjarni>remember this was the teacher's cars
20:18<@Bjarni>*teachers'
20:18<@Bjarni>one of them had completely even tires...
20:19<@Bjarni>I don't think the other teachers liked the idea of measuring those tires XD
20:19<+glx>I have a car with correct sculptures, but you can't read anything on the side :)
20:19<@Bjarni>even as in should have been replaced ages ago
20:19<Gonozal_VIII>that's the best friction on a dry road :-)
20:19<@Bjarni>yeah
20:19<@Bjarni>but not on a rainy day
20:20<@Bjarni>well it would on a dry road on a rainy day but...
20:20<@Bjarni>you know what I mean
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
20:20<@Bjarni>we lack dry roads on rainy days
20:20<@Bjarni><glx> I have a car with correct sculptures, but you can't read anything on the side :) <-- I still don't get what you mean :(
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>you lack tunnels
20:21<@Bjarni>we lack grades that justifies tunnels
20:21<Gonozal_VIII>you can drive around in the tunnel until the road outside is dry again :-)
20:21<+glx>tire sculptures are ok, but tire side are very bad
20:22<@Bjarni>I mean.... at one time the local driver said that we should add a lot of coal to start on because the first 6 km would be uphill.... at a whole 0,5%
20:22<@Bjarni>glx: ahh
20:22<@Bjarni>now I get what you mean
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>0,5% nice
20:23<+glx>but it passed technical control with a warning, no obligation to change tires
20:23<Gonozal_VIII>i mean.. i don't know if that
20:23<Gonozal_VIII>is much for rails
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20:23<@Bjarni>compare it to the signs for the roads
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20:23<Gonozal_VIII>20% and such...
20:24<@Bjarni>the line that the Big Boys were designed for had a grade of 1,44% or something
20:24<Smoovious>we got some places, especially through the passes, that are 5-6% grades...
20:24<SmatZ>http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35258 "And before anyone asks Why - Why not." nice reason :-x
20:24<@Bjarni>shay were constructed for 10%
20:24<Smoovious>the trains gotta double-back a lot
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20:25<Gonozal_VIII>secret openttd game data^^
20:25<@Bjarni>SmatZ: look at who posted that....
20:26<SmatZ>Bjarni: I do not know him, should I?
20:26<Gonozal_VIII>sherlok holmes
20:26<@Bjarni>he is the guy who reported "the terraforming window opened in my vehicle view window"
20:27<@Bjarni>it opened on top of it due to opening on a fixed location
20:27<SmatZ>lol
20:27<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
20:27<@Bjarni>it didn't open IN it... he didn't even try to move it
20:28<Gonozal_VIII>but it's nice that you can use it through the vehicle windows :-)
20:28<SmatZ>:-P
20:28<@Bjarni>hew also claimed that our train pathfinder was buggy because the trains took a wrong turn when he ordered the pathfinder to look 0 tiles ahead
20:28<Gonozal_VIII>^^
20:28<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: you can
20:28<Gonozal_VIII>i know
20:28<@Bjarni>I could keep on with all the stuff he said but I think you get the picture
20:28<Gonozal_VIII>that's why i sait it is not it would be :-)
20:29<SmatZ>:-D
20:29<SmatZ>he is one really funny guy
20:29<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm but that's an old feature...
20:30<@Bjarni>look him up under bug reports on SF (remember that they are closed) if you want to see what he wrote
20:30<Gonozal_VIII>http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=35259 <-- hehe
20:30<SmatZ>"I'm curious - is the network data for the game encrypted? I'm guessing not." He doesn't even try to look into the code... "And before anyone asks Why - Why not." and has this intelligent reason
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20:31<SmatZ>He also posted today's other funny post, http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35215 ... remove crossings on the title screen
20:32<Gonozal_VIII>greatest fix^ ever^^
20:32<SmatZ>:)
20:32<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
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20:34<Gonozal_VIII>btw bjarni is that what you wrote about vehicle speed still valid?
20:35<Gonozal_VIII>i thought they are all the same now
20:35<SmatZ>strange, I have access to individual bug reports, but not to https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/tracker.php?group_id=103924
20:37<@Bjarni>huh
20:37<@Bjarni>I lack access to that one as well
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20:38<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: they aren't.. There has been talk about it but then people wanted to keep the numbers so planes would be way too fast
20:39<Gonozal_VIII>train and rv at 45 km/h have the same speed ingame
20:40<Gonozal_VIII>(tested to be sure)
20:40<@Bjarni>SmatZ: now I know why... somebody locked it because people should use flyspray instead
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20:40<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: err... what?
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20:41<Gonozal_VIII>http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35221
20:41<Gonozal_VIII>you posted there
20:41<Gonozal_VIII>Try to use different vehicles moving at the same speed (in km/h or mph). You will notice that ships and road vehicles move at the same speed while trains moves at half speed. Planes moves way slower than trains. <-- no
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20:47<Gonozal_VIII>speed is the same for all vehicle types :-)
20:49<SmatZ>when I compare one bus and one train when both have max 112km/h, the bus is a little bit faster (about 1/4 tile at 1024 tiles)
20:49<SmatZ>no... 256 tiles :)
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20:50<Gonozal_VIII>btw why can you sort trains for all kinds of stuff but not the other vehicles?
20:51<Gonozal_VIII>(in the purchase list)
20:52<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: how do you mean? I can sort RVs by engineID, name ,reliability...
20:52<Gonozal_VIII>max speed?
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20:53<@Bjarni>I added a whole lot of stuff you can sort them by
20:53<Gonozal_VIII>aircraft have more options and trains the most
20:53<@Bjarni>yeah...
20:53<@Bjarni>I knoow
20:53<@Bjarni>*know
20:53<@Bjarni>if you like you can add more
20:53<@Bjarni>it's not really tricky
20:54<Gonozal_VIII>for me it is^^
20:54<@Bjarni>build_vehicle_gui.cpp
20:54<@Bjarni>static int CDECL AircraftEngineCostSorter(const void *a, const void *b)
20:54<@Bjarni>{
20:54<@Bjarni> const int va = AircraftVehInfo(*(const EngineID*)a)->base_cost;
20:54<@Bjarni> const int vb = AircraftVehInfo(*(const EngineID*)b)->base_cost;
20:54<@Bjarni> int r = va - vb;
20:54<@Bjarni> return _internal_sort_order ? -r : r;
20:54<Gonozal_VIII>why is it not the same for all types?
20:54<@Bjarni>}
20:54<@Bjarni>this is basically how it's done
20:55<SmatZ>http://88.146.45.107/ttd/speed.png on a 2048 map
20:55<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> why is it not the same for all types? <-- stuff like power doesn't apply to all vehicle types
20:55<SmatZ>Bjarni: but max speed could be used
20:55<SmatZ>would be useful with newgrf sets where are tens of new buses
20:56<@Bjarni>ahh yes
20:56<@Bjarni>now I see what happened
20:56<Gonozal_VIII>hmm that's another thing... how is their acceleration calculated without power var?
20:56<@Bjarni>I never finished ships and road vehicles
20:56<Gonozal_VIII>ah^^
20:57<@Bjarni>and then I forgot that I didn't finish them
20:57<SmatZ>:-D
20:57<@Bjarni>the stuff you can sort by for those two vehicle types are generic (non vehicle type specific) sort code
20:58<@Bjarni>I didn't get around to make the code for data where I had to write specific code for each type
20:58<@Bjarni>for those two
20:58<Gonozal_VIII>max speed is vehicle type specific?
20:58<Gonozal_VIII>ah... less bit used?
20:58<@Bjarni>no
20:59<Gonozal_VIII>i read somewhere about rvs being limited to 127 km/h maxspeed
20:59<@Bjarni>it's stored in AircraftVehInfo, RailVehInfo and so on
20:59<@Bjarni>all structs and all with max_speed in them
20:59<@Bjarni>but different struct names, hence need for different code
21:00<SmatZ>maybe max_speed and some crash_counters should me moved out of this structure
21:00<@Bjarni>if I recall correctly I ran out of time when writing this
21:00<Gonozal_VIII>that would need classes...
21:00<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: no no nooooo nooo more C++ things :-D
21:01<SmatZ>I am not really sure how would it work with savegames... I think the current approach is the best
21:01<@Bjarni>the file was called build_vehicle_gui.c when I wrote this
21:02<@Bjarni>changing the way this is stored is easy... ensuring that it keeps working with GRF files and stuff is tricky
21:02<Gonozal_VIII>oo is cool :-)
21:03<@Bjarni>when used correctly
21:03<SmatZ>and not overused
21:04<Gonozal_VIII>wouldn't do much good for the map... but could help a lot with the windows, vehicles and stuff
21:05<@Bjarni>stuff?
21:05<SmatZ>stuff, you know
21:05<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
21:05<@Bjarni>ohh
21:05<@Bjarni>stuff
21:05<SmatZ>yeah
21:05<Gonozal_VIII>exactly, stuff :-)
21:05[~]Bjarni takes notes
21:06<SmatZ>:-)
21:06<@Bjarni>oo is good for vehicle windows and stuff
21:06<@Bjarni>what about vehicle doors?
21:06<Gonozal_VIII>they're suff :-)
21:06<Gonozal_VIII>+t
21:06<@Bjarni>they are sufft?
21:06<SmatZ>:-))))
21:07<Gonozal_VIII>yes, very sufft indeed
21:08<Gonozal_VIII>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/index.php?do=search&q=stuff <-- :-)
21:08<SmatZ>lol
21:08<Gonozal_VIII>see, oo is good for goods :D
21:09<@Bjarni>check the discussion too
21:09<@Bjarni>"you know, that would be a fun new cargo to include, "Stuff". comes in crates."
21:09<SmatZ>:)
21:09<@Bjarni>"You may laugh, but I'm gonna use that now! My own PERSONALISED GRF!!! BEST. NIGHT. EVER. "
21:10<SmatZ>:-D
21:10<@Bjarni>I think I will host a server with this one eventually
21:11<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
21:13|-|Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB7BD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz]
21:17<@Bjarni>http://qdb.us/118482 <-- sometimes the internet scares me
21:17<@Bjarni>and makes me laugh at the same time
21:17<Sacro>http://stronsay.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/Gan13.jpg
21:19<@Bjarni>looks like Sacro looks at all jpgs that includes "fucks"
21:19<Gonozal_VIII>^^
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21:19<Gonozal_VIII>sure, how else would you find something like that
21:19<SmatZ>:-D
21:19<SmatZ>lol
21:21<@Bjarni>http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/pet-trash.jpg <-- I presume that if we actually translate the right one it will say something else
21:21<@Bjarni>but less fun and less odd
21:21<@Bjarni>hmm
21:21<Gonozal_VIII>pet bottles...
21:21<@Bjarni>I wonder if it's photoshopped
21:23<fjb>Why? PET = Polyethylen
21:24<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.allschwil.ch/Dienstleistungen/HA_Tiefbau_Umwelt/Pet.gif
21:25<@Bjarni>http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/nagoya-castle-warning.jpg <-- they presume Sacro to show up?
21:25<Sacro>i am not dangerous D:
21:26<@Bjarni>you are to a racist Asian
21:26<@Bjarni>at least in his mind
21:26<Gonozal_VIII>they tried to collect different types of plastic seperately here, 6 different trashcans for plastic... didn't work out too well
21:28<@Bjarni>http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/personal-data-breaker.jpg <--- hahaha
21:28<Gonozal_VIII>:D
21:28<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: and do you think that people can tell different types of plastic from each other?
21:28<Gonozal_VIII>we were supposed to
21:29<Gonozal_VIII>but they stopped that not long after it started
21:29<SmatZ>all types of plastic should have a sign what kind of plastic it is
21:31<@Bjarni>http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/virtual-boring.jpg <-- I don't think I want this video game... it doesn't sound like fun
21:32<Gonozal_VIII>yes it's possible to tell them apart but who wants to carry 6 different bags for pastic to the garbage collecting building thing or carry it in one bag and start sorting there?
21:32<Gonozal_VIII>virtual boring^^
21:32<Gonozal_VIII>grass growth simulator!
21:33<Gonozal_VIII>realtime
21:33<+glx>ri and li are the same sound in japanese
21:33<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: now that's a nice project for me
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21:36<@Bjarni>http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/since-2008.jpg <-- picture is from 2006...
21:36<+glx>same as love -> ラブ -> rabu
21:36<Gonozal_VIII>or the decay game... you get a sealed box with a single unstable atom in it and you can guess if it decayed
21:37<Gonozal_VIII>if your guess is wrong, your cat dies
21:40<@Bjarni>http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?imagename=mental-tools.jpg&category=Household%20Items&date=2005-02-02 <--- hehe... one ん too much :D
21:40<@Bjarni>or n if you like
21:40<@Bjarni>hmm
21:41<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm mental tools
21:41<@Bjarni>actually this one isn't Japanese but then again Taiwan used to be Japanese
21:41<@Bjarni>please stop torturing your pan
21:42<Gonozal_VIII>no pyrokinesis cooking with that pan?
21:44<@Bjarni>http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/cleanpoo.jpg <--- looks like a decent product with the wrong name
21:45<Gonozal_VIII>it cleans poo?
21:46<@Bjarni>I don't think so
21:46<@Bjarni>but I don't know
21:46<SmatZ>I would like to know how many of these pictures are / aren't fakes
21:46<SmatZ>you put your poo inside, and it will make it fresh and clean
21:46<@Bjarni>there are 127 million Japanese... most of them had very limited English skills
21:47<@Bjarni>so whenever they write something in English they tend to end up like this
21:47<@Bjarni>and say 0,1% of it is funny
21:47<@Bjarni>which makes a whole lot of funny stuff
21:47<@Bjarni>I bet Japan is full of undiscovered funny signs
21:48<SmatZ>stuff :)
21:48<@Bjarni>yeah
21:48<@Bjarni>Japan is full of stuff
21:48<Gonozal_VIII>:D
21:48<SmatZ>you should use C++ for Japan
21:48<ln->one doesn't need to go to japan to find engrish-like product names for things...
21:48<ln->as far as japan
21:48<@Bjarni>no
21:48<@Bjarni>Finland is closer
21:48<ln->yeah
21:48<@Bjarni>and they have the same Engrish skills
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21:49<@Bjarni>I have seen some weird stuff in Denmark too but none of them were funny
21:49<@Bjarni>"I have many moneys" <-- one guy actually wrote this
21:49<@Bjarni>in 8th grade or something
21:50<@Bjarni>no... 9th
21:50<@Bjarni>so he must have been like 15
21:50<ln->e.g. it is said that a finnish hotel chain "Cumulus" used to have a campaign called "Cum Nights" for some time in the 90's or so.
21:50<SmatZ>but I doubt they do not have any basic English skills / do not pay anyone to check the product's name... so it doesn't sound funny
21:50<SmatZ>ln-: why not :-)
21:51<SmatZ>maybe it is intended
21:52<ln->and.. one thing i remember seeing myself, which wasn't even engrish, nor even wrong as such, was an ad of a disco on a ferry:
21:52<ln->it first said something in finnish, then "feel the beat!" in english, and finally "full fart!" in swedish.
21:52<SmatZ>many porn sites contain texts like "cum inside" instead of "come inside" or so
21:53<ln->Bjarni will tell you there's nothing wrong with the swedish one.
21:53<SmatZ>:-D
21:53<@Bjarni>SmatZ: if you say so but are you sure it's unintended?
21:53<ln->the latter word means something totally different in swedish.
21:54<ln->still not a very bright idea to write it next to english.
21:54<SmatZ>I think someone posted some Danish "child song" that was very nasty in English...
21:54<SmatZ>Bjarni: no...
21:54<SmatZ>but it is a good advertisement, when it is funny
21:55<@Bjarni>I don't want to pay for looking at dicks...
21:55<@Bjarni>I wouldn't even do it for free
21:55<SmatZ>:-D
21:55<Sacro>Bjarni: not what you said to me last night
21:55<@Bjarni><SmatZ> I think someone posted some Danish "child song" that was very nasty in English... <-- I would like to know which one
21:55<Sacro>SmatZ: Fart in the duck?
21:55<SmatZ>Sacro: yes
21:56<Sacro>thats dutch
21:56<SmatZ>aha
21:56<Sacro>even *I* know the difference between danish and dutch
21:56<Sacro>http://www.b3ta.com/links/Fart_in_the_duck
21:56<SmatZ>I just do not remember, I do not know these languages :-/
21:56<@Bjarni>hehe... "full fart"... there is a group of people Denmark calling themselves "the fart liberation group" and they want to to be polite to fart everywhere
21:57<SmatZ>:-x
21:57<@Bjarni>I think they have a whole 5 members or so
21:57<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni: not what you said to me last night <--- liar
21:58<SmatZ>[03:55:17] <Bjarni> I wouldn't even do it for free .... reminds me of http://www.explosm.net/comics/1089/ :)
21:59<@Bjarni>o_O
21:59<Gonozal_VIII>i don't whant to see something that reminds you of looking at dicks...
21:59<SmatZ>:-D
22:00<@Bjarni>Sacroのうそつけ
22:00<@Bjarni>now Sacro will work for ages to try to figure out what I just said about him XD
22:01<Sacro>nope
22:01<Sacro>i don't care
22:01<Sacro>HA
22:01<@Bjarni>you just proved my statement
22:02<@Bjarni>good night
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22:02[~]SmatZ agrees
22:02<SmatZ>night
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 10 00:00:57 2007