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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-10

---Logopened Mon Dec 10 00:00:57 2007
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08:46<oh>what's up with sourceforge?
08:47<oh>it says it has the osx version of b2, but not a single mirror actually carries the file ;>
08:47<ln->what's b2?
08:48<oh>short for beta2? :)
08:49<oh>someone is playing techno in the next room
08:50<oh>this is where I wish I had some sort of powerful gun
08:51<+glx>oh: it's :)
08:54[~]oh mumbles something about ;>
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08:56<Rubidium>that is even slower than is at the moment
08:56<Rubidium>it's still loading
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08:58<oh>I just remember migrating my project over there a few years ago, was happy with it, then lost interest in the project :)
08:58<oh>bloody ell, download statistics for the nonexistent file says it's been peaking at 25 downloads/hr
08:59<+glx>the file is not non existant
08:59<+glx>it's just not on all mirrors
09:00<oh>I've typed in the direct links for all mirrors :/
09:02<+glx>hmm I see no downloads at all for beta2
09:02<oh>click the 0
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09:08<Digitalfox>Rubidium: Shouldn't a link for sorceforge or direct download should be put in open 0.6 beta 2 topic or is there a reason for not doing it ?
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09:17<Rubidium>Digitalfox: a) I was lazy and very tired, b) SF had AND has not yet mirrored
09:17<Digitalfox>Rubidium: no problem for me :) Just newbies may get confused ;)
09:19<Rubidium>poor newbies ;)
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09:21<Digitalfox>don't be like that Rubidium :|
09:27[~]Belugas envisionnes some baby birds, mouth wide open, waiting to be feeded by mother bird...
09:28<Digitalfox>Belugas: lol ah ah
09:29<Digitalfox>had a big laugh with what you just said ... :)
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09:32<Rubidium>Digitalfox: and it was that way for the beta1 release too :)
09:32<Digitalfox>Rubidium: ok :)
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09:49<Digitalfox>Hum i don't like the Christmas theme on tt forums, not a big problem but don't like it :\ The colours used in many text's don't look well :(
09:51<Digitalfox>Damn belugas you sure have a great imagination.. I can't remove " envisionnes some baby birds, mouth wide open, waiting to be feeded by mother bird... " from my head.. lol
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09:52<@Belugas>so you did not liked the theme from last christmas period either Digitalfox?
09:52<@Belugas>thanks for imagination stuff :) It is an image i had from the past 6 months floating in my head, to be honest ;)
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09:57<Digitalfox>not really belugas :(
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10:13<@Belugas>Digitalfox, you could come up with alternatives and prsent them to orudge ;)
10:14<Digitalfox>Yes belugas, but my problem is with colors.. Like for example the URL link color it's a green dark that almost looks like normal black color text
10:15<Digitalfox>But maybe it's just me, since i haven't heard any other people complaint :\
10:15<@Belugas>that's waht i've said : bring in alternatives
10:15<Digitalfox>Well an alternative would be the old URL link color light green or dark yellow
10:15<Rubidium>Digitalfox: better?
10:17<Digitalfox>Rubidium: I didn't have a problem how it was, i was just saying that most users didn't know where to look for a download, since in there's no link either :) But yes it's better :)
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10:21<@orudge>is somebody going to post a news item on about beta 2, or shall I do that?
10:22<@orudge>or are we waiting for more binaries or somesuch
10:22<Digitalfox>Hello orudge :)
10:23<@orudge>it's been announced on the forums
10:23<@orudge>so I'll announce it on the site, then
10:23<BiA|pavel-css>orudge, the Owen Rudge? :O
10:23<BiA|pavel-css>the "creator" of OpenTTD?
10:24<@orudge>it's already been postd
10:24<@orudge>I just had an old cached version :P
10:24<@orudge>or, hmm
10:24<@orudge>it's not been made public maybe?
10:24<Rubidium>it has
10:24[~]orudge scratches his head
10:24<Rubidium>it's just the cache that has ****ed up again
10:24<@orudge>I can see it when I'm logged in
10:24<@orudge>but not logged out
10:24<@orudge>ah, right
10:24<@orudge>BiA|pavel-css: of a sort, yes
10:25<@orudge>not the actual creator, but I got Ludde to release it ;)
10:25<@orudge>and I run tt-forums,, etc
10:25<BiA|pavel-css>wow, nice to meet you :)
10:25<@orudge>heh, no problem
10:25<Rubidium>so... trashed the cache ;)
10:26<Rubidium>orudge: we do not have a non-published state on the website
10:26<@orudge>so I saw
10:26<@orudge>it just confused me a bit... makes sense now, though :
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10:28<kris>i have a little thing i need some help too
10:30<kris>i have made a own server but no one comes in to the server, look like its closed for others clients!
10:30<Digitalfox>kris: Have you got a firewall and if yes the ports necessary for openttd open?
10:31<BiA|pavel-css>it reminds me my problem with my server :P ... tomorow i am gonna buy DVD's burn everythink and foramt :)
10:31<kris>but i have tryed that but dosent know really how do open 3979 udp and tcp
10:31<kris>and 3978
10:32<Digitalfox>kris: read this first
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10:34<kristyburg>its me kris
10:34<kristyburg>whats the site again ?
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10:40<Draagon>does it require to register FS?
10:41<Digitalfox>Yes for bug posting in FS it's required registering :)
10:41<Digitalfox>It's easy and simple
10:42<Digitalfox>Is there a reason why you can't register?
10:42<Draagon>just dont remember the address :P
10:42<Draagon>not that
10:42<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
10:42<Draagon>just need to fill in a quick bug report
10:42<Rubidium>Digitalfox: because when you are not registered, you will not be notified of requests
10:43<Rubidium>like questions for savegames, or testing whether a fix worked
10:43<Digitalfox>Yes Rubidium i know, i was telling him that to report bugs it's necessary registering, but you know explained why it's needed :)
10:44<@orudge>hmm, I haven't looked at the openttd wiki in a while, that new front page looks rather snazzy
10:45<Draagon>i dont think it is
10:45<Draagon>i say its good
10:45<Digitalfox>What a strange bug :\
10:46<Digitalfox>Nevver happen to me .9
10:47<Draagon>looks like company value is way to high in ss2 which is good :P
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10:49<Draagon>intresting, hotmail is slow today
10:49<Draagon>or it is the FS
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10:50<kristyburg>i think have done it bow digitalfox!
10:54<Digitalfox>no problem kristyburg :) But bow for openttd dev's they are the ones who it all possible ;)
10:54<Digitalfox>*made it
10:54<+glx>Draagon: check in junk mail
10:54<Draagon>why dint industry selector for maps made it do 0.6.0beta1?
10:55<kristyburg>but now i got closed client all the time.... i use dedicated server!
10:55<Draagon>glx: thx dint gome to that :P
10:56<+glx>kristyburg: is it visible on
10:56<Digitalfox>Draagon: Well it's in beta2 if i'm not mistaken :)
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10:57<kristyburg>i dont know
10:57<BiA|pavel-css>glx: have you saw :) o dont know what crazy think it was
10:57<BiA|pavel-css>*i dont
10:57<@Bjarni>hello freaks
10:58<@Bjarni>and aliens
10:58<kristyburg>can someone check if someone can join my server!? !!!!Krisworld
10:58<Digitalfox>hello bjarni the master freak ;)
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10:58<kristyburg>i use openttd 0.5.3
10:59<Digitalfox>kristyburg: I don't play in multiplayer :(
10:59<Draagon>kristyburg: what server and do you have any grfs?
10:59[~]BiA|pavel-css is there
10:59<kristyburg>grafiks you mean
10:59<@Bjarni>I think it's Krisworld
10:59<kristyburg>it works
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11:01<Digitalfox>A openTTD server still using r9976... :|
11:01<Draagon>so what? one server uses even MiniIN
11:02<Rubidium>as long as nobody bothers to use the exploits in the MiniIN server, it'll probably stay there
11:03<+glx>I can't remember how to kill a MiniIN server :)
11:03<Digitalfox>yes Draagon, but r9976 is very old and people who use MiniIN at least use the last version of it..
11:04<kristyburg>see you guys , thx for the helps!
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11:04<Draagon>Rubidium: you can always make some patches that have turn off/on options so server admins can disable exploiding features
11:05<Draagon>Digitalfox: mabye thei use r9976 because they want so
11:05<BiA|pavel-css>why only me must have some strange errors :(
11:05<Rubidium>Draagon: you can?
11:05<Draagon>Rubidium: those who write patches can
11:05[~]Rubidium wonders why Windows isn't full of off/on options for all exploits
11:06<BiA|pavel-css>because they dont want to make them that visible?
11:06<Digitalfox>Draagon: I'm not saying they can't, i'm just saying the newer nighlty build the better ( unless there's a crash bug )
11:06<Rubidium>new commit: New patch option to turn of remotely execution of arbitrary code
11:06<Rubidium>new commit: New patch option to turn *on* remotely execution of arbitrary code
11:06<Digitalfox>Rubidium: Lol
11:06<Rubidium>new commit: New patch option to turn on fork bombs
11:07<Draagon>Digitalfox: you cant make so that ppl cant use rXXXX for servers
11:08<Rubidium>actually, I can make old versions very unusable in multiplayer
11:09<Rubidium>in one line of code ;)
11:09<Digitalfox>I was only saying that if people use nightly build's for a server, at least they should try to have a recent build
11:09<+glx>modifying MS?
11:09<Rubidium>glx: exactly
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11:09<Draagon>i know but some other guys then be pirates and release clean versions
11:10<Rubidium>nice for them, but that will be totally useless for the 'normal' game servers
11:11<Rubidium>because I just make it impossible to get a registration in the server list for certain version number
11:12<Rubidium>and when they 'fake' the version number, it's likely they get only desyncy clients
11:12<Draagon>but why should you do that?
11:13<Rubidium>did I say I will do it?
11:13<Draagon>why should you sabotage every versions source code?
11:13<Rubidium>I only said I can do it
11:13<Draagon>but i asked why should you
11:13<Rubidium>I can also say that I can write PBS, but that doesn't mean I am going to do it (or am even thinking about it)
11:14<Draagon>is somebody working on PBS?
11:15<Rubidium>at least not in a way that has shown any progress the last month
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11:17<BiA|pavel-css>thats bad :(
11:17<Draagon>it seems to be that you, devs, dont have any fun aka not playing (O)TTD or any other games, am i wrong? :P
11:17<Draagon>yes it is
11:18<BiA|pavel-css>but it must be so complicated so i can understand it
11:18<Draagon>erm there is a Patch for PBS that will work on OpenTTD but with r3xxxx and only if you have NPF on
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11:20<Rubidium>yup, it's months ago that I last really played OTTD.
11:20<Draakon>i knew it! :P
11:20<Rubidium>though I played a single session of solitaire last weekend, but I don't think it counts.
11:21<Draakon>i think not only OpenTTD devs but other game devs should have the right to play at last once a month togheter with the same game :P
11:21<Digitalfox>Sorry to hear that Rubidium, it would be fun for you to play some of the feautures you introduced ;)
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11:23[~]Bjarni notes that only Digitalfox considers himself an alien or freak in here
11:23<@Bjarni>so the rest of us should be pretty normal
11:23<BiA|pavel-css>we know :)
11:24<Digitalfox>Bjarni but but but you're are master at freak stuff :|
11:24<Rubidium>ah well, I still have to optimise the last game I started ;)
11:24<@Bjarni>so let us ignore that freak and sit down in a circle and compare our tin foil hats... I bet mine is the prettiest one
11:24<Rubidium>128x128 map and still not fully optimised after 170 game years ;)
11:25<Digitalfox>You like perfection on each game right?
11:25<Rubidium>but then again, optimising primarily takes time because you need to observe the behaviour to improve it
11:25<Draakon>Rubidium: are you good networker?
11:25<@Bjarni>Rubidium is an OpenTTD Borg
11:25<@Bjarni>always seeking perfection and assimilating everything that prevents it
11:25<@Bjarni>like AI players
11:25<BiA|pavel-css>lol :D
11:26<Rubidium>AI players add extra difficulty on small maps ;)
11:26<Rubidium>primarily because of their uberstupid routes that make it impossible for you to make routes
11:26<Draakon>AI players suck till NoAI Branch gets to trunk
11:27<Digitalfox>Hello bjarni buahahaha
11:27<Rubidium>... only NoAI has no real AIs yet ;)
11:27<Rubidium>and it's far from finished
11:27<BiA|pavel-css>NoAI branch, doesnt it mean that AI will be removed? :)
11:27<@Bjarni>I'm not opening that link
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11:27<+glx>the old AI yes
11:27<Draakon>no submitted AIs?
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11:27<Digitalfox>Bjarni: You should is weel taken.. :)
11:27<Rubidium>maybe I should continue devving on the NoAI branch when I have time
11:28<@Bjarni>I value my humanity higher than opening random links sent to be my freaks on the internet
11:28<@Belugas>[11:23] <Draagon> it seems to be that you, devs, dont have any fun aka not playing (O)TTD or any other games, am i wrong? :P <--- i don't remember the last time i really played a game. But somwehow, the fun for me is more related to adding new features and making them right. Doing code and see your ideas come to life is much more trilling for me than making tons of money
11:28<@Belugas>virtual money, sadly ;)
11:28<Rubidium>(a lot of time that is)
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11:28<+glx>I only start openttd when fixing bugs :)
11:28<Draakon>dam i wanna dev something too! but dont have knowledge to do it and im lazy to get it too
11:29<@Bjarni>lack of knowledge isn't a problem... you can always learn
11:29<fjb>Draakon: Then pay someone to do it for you.
11:29<@Bjarni>lazy is a severe issue though
11:29<Draakon>fjb: will do if you send the money :P
11:29<@Bjarni>fjb just pointed out the only known workaround for laziness
11:30<Digitalfox>When happen the code change that made newships.grf load a new ship depot and new harbor? :\
11:30<Draakon>i know
11:30<@Bjarni>but if you are lazy then you lack a paying job too :s
11:30<fjb>Draakon: Maybe. Depends on what it is and how much you are paying.
11:30<Draakon>im not old enough to even go to work!
11:30<Rubidium>Draakon: three years back or so?
11:30<Draakon>fjb: a book :P
11:30<@Bjarni>fjb: he wants a titlescreen without bells and he needs €500 to do it
11:30<Rubidium>arg... Digitalfox
11:31[~]fjb already owns a book.
11:31<Rubidium>Draakon: really?
11:31<Draakon>Rubidium> Draakon: three years back or so? sry what you mean by that
11:31<Digitalfox>Well i'm lazy so i work on my own and have one guy working for me doing stuff so i can be at home chatting in openttd irc, how fun is that :(...
11:31<Rubidium>you can't be that young and be able to write
11:31<Draakon>well im teenager
11:31<Rubidium>Draakon: tab completion failed on me, was meant for Digitalfox
11:32<@Bjarni>a modern teenager who can actually spell
11:32<@Bjarni>is this candid camera or something?
11:32<Draakon>im not a modern :P
11:32<@orudge>Hey, I was a teenager once, and I could spell perfectly well
11:32<@Bjarni>orudge: but that was ages ago
11:32<@orudge>although, I did have a tendency to use a couple too many exclamation marks when I was 12 or 13
11:32<fjb>orudge: How long ago was that?
11:32<@orudge>Bjarni: true...
11:32<Draakon>English is even not my home language
11:32<@orudge>well, I turned 20 this year, fjb
11:33<@orudge>my TT Station was first created in 2000, when I was 13
11:33<Draakon>intresting thing i think: brittians like TT more then rest of people
11:33<@Bjarni>you are an Estonian
11:33<@Bjarni>that explains it
11:33<@Bjarni>so far from USA
11:33<@orudge>Draakon: well, it is a Britishgame :)
11:33<Rubidium>orudge: how old is Zernebok now?
11:33<@Bjarni>you aren't contaminated then
11:33<Draakon>and how did you come to that, Bjarni?
11:33<@orudge>Rubidium: hmm, depends on the measure
11:34<@Bjarni>Draakon: the spyware I added in OpenTTD to figure out everything about our players
11:34<@Bjarni>either that or I check your DNS
11:34<@orudge>the domain was registered in January 2005, Rubidium
11:34<@orudge>however, I've been doing hosting since 2002, in various forms
11:35<Rubidium>so... orudge has been working since he was 15 ;)
11:35<Draakon>ok lets get to talk ABOUT OTTD? this is what this IRC Channel is about
11:35<@orudge>I've been programming since I was 8 or so ;)
11:35<@Bjarni>Draakon: try a whois on yourself... it will tell that you have a .ee domain and I know the country codes ;)
11:35<Draakon>good for you
11:35<@orudge>[16:35:11] <Draakon> ok lets get to talk ABOUT OTTD? this is what this IRC Channel is about <-- really? nobody told me... ;)
11:35<Rubidium>Bjarni: .tv is
11:36<@Bjarni>that small island in the Pacific
11:36<Draakon>orduge: channel topic is this:
11:36<Draakon>0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta2 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | And please, no YouTube links
11:36<fjb>Bjarni: Time again to change the topic. :-)
11:37<Draakon>im off to eat
11:37|-|Draakon changed nick to DraakonEATING
11:37|-|[Bjarni] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta2 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | no off topic YouTube links
11:38<@Bjarni>I don't know what you wanted me to change so I just changed something :P
11:38<fjb>Now we declare everything talked about here to be on topic. :-)
11:39<@Bjarni>actually it's only the topic if declared so by at least one person with permission to kick people
11:39<@orudge>so, who wants to reimplement OpenTTD in Whitespace?
11:39<@Bjarni>not me
11:39<@Bjarni>but DraakonEATING might want to try
11:42<Rubidium>Bjarni: and where is .vu from?
11:42<@Belugas>from .deja domain ;)
11:43<@orudge>but deja were bought by Google!
11:45<@Belugas>hehee reading "vuugle" in french sounds a bit like "vos gueules", loosely translated as "Shut You mouth"
11:47<DraakonEATING>k all i mus go now, bye all!
11:48|-|DraakonEATING changed nick to Draakon
11:48|-|Draakon [] has left #openttd [BYE ALL!]
11:48<fjb>What did he eat?
11:49<@Bjarni>are you sure you want to know the answer to that question?
11:49<fjb>I guess not.
11:50<@Bjarni>then don't ask
11:50<@Bjarni>you risk getting the answer
11:50<fjb>Some times I take some risk.
11:50<@Bjarni>even unneeded ones
11:51<fjb>That risks are most fun.
11:52<@Bjarni>it's like Russian roulette
11:52<@Bjarni>it can be fun until it's not
11:52<@Bjarni>and then you will never be able to recover
11:52<fjb>That risk doesn't count as unneeded.
11:54<@Bjarni>it's clear that this strategy never backfired on you
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11:58<fjb>You clearly have to define everything. :-)
12:00<fjb>Hm, what does rail_firstred_twoway_eol do?
12:02<hylje>red two way is considered an dead end
12:02<fjb>Ok, thank you.
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12:06<Maarten>heh, banks appear outside of cities like normal industries in 0.6.0-beta2 :P
12:06<@Bjarni>the rumour claims so
12:07<@Bjarni>personally I haven't seen it
12:07<Maarten> <--- now you have. :P
12:07<@Bjarni>I meant in a game here
12:07<Maarten>if you log on to Maarten1 server you'll find 3 banks out in the open
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12:07<@Bjarni>I have seen the image on the forum
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12:09<Maarten>don't know if it even helps, but I guess you could do a save of that game and find out whats up. I believe they have been there since map generation
12:09<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
12:09<@Belugas>i doubt it is usefull to have a save aof the game...
12:09<@Belugas>it is too late already
12:11<Maarten>I don't mind it though, makes it much easier to use banks :P
12:11<@Belugas>on the other hand, it migfht be handy to have saves of before the bank appeared
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12:12<Maarten>I can also "fund" a bank in the middle of nowhere, I just built a bank on Maarten1 outside of town
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12:17<+glx>Maarten: confirmed :)
12:18<Maarten>yeah I just built a bank, and connected one bank with another :P
12:18<+glx>lol banks cannot be built on houses
12:18<+glx>nice bug :)
12:19<Maarten>for once, not one I really mind :D
12:20<fjb>You customers will mind... :-)
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12:22[~]Belugas finishes his plate and svn updates
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12:22<+glx>I know where the bug is and why :)
12:23<@Belugas>fun spoiler :S
12:23<fjb>glx: Please tell us. Did the bank robbers invent that bug?
12:23|-|erikv [] has joined #openttd
12:23<Maarten>much easier to rob a bank in the middle of nowhere..... heh, heh
12:25|-||Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:25<fjb>But much less money in that bank, I would guess.
12:25<@Belugas>CheckIfIndustryIsAllowed should add the test for MP_HOUSE?
12:26<Gonozal_VIII>it's an internet banking bank :-)
12:27<fjb>Hm, the internet is in the middle of nowhere?
12:27<+glx>Belugas: r11609 removed a flag test
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11615 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11609): temperate banks can only be built in towns (over a house)
12:27<Gonozal_VIII>sure fjb or have you seen any internet around lately?
12:28[~]Belugas had fun scratching his head
12:28<fjb>No, last time I saw a net was when I was visiting a town at the coast. And that was the middle of nowhere.
12:30<+glx>now we can say nightlies are more stable than beta ;)
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12:31<@Belugas>it would have help to find it if my repo waht not dated of r11545 ;)
12:31<fjb>Nighlies are not beta anymore.
12:31<+glx>I just checked my mails to find the problem :)
12:32<@Belugas>at home, i alwas keep them, but not at work :(
12:32<@Belugas>i can only use logs or blame
12:36<@Belugas>good work, glx
12:36<@Belugas>as always :)
12:36|-|Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
12:36<@Belugas>Maarten, if you liked the bank as it was, it can be easily done using a grf, a really simple one ;)
12:37<fjb>Maarten never uses grfs...
12:37<fjb>Hello Wolf01
12:39<@Belugas>fjb, there's always a start to anything, there is always a first time
12:42<fjb>Hi LeviathNL
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12:47<BiA|pavel-css>anyone here can help me with handling "STR_SAVE_STILL_IN_PROGRESS" error message :X i am working on some patch and this ugly error is called every autosave :X
12:49<@Belugas>it would really help to see your code...
12:49<LeviathNL>I had this also in unmodified trunk some days ago
12:49<BiA|pavel-css>i should upload it to anywhere or send you?
12:50<BiA|pavel-css>LeviathNL: hmm
12:50<@Belugas>upload it anywhere :)
12:51<+glx>BiA|pavel-css: that means saving takes very long
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12:53<+glx>LeviathNL: probably fixed now as the debugging stuff as been removed
12:54<+glx>(this debugging stuff did autosave every month after checking vehicle count)
12:54<Wolf01>LeviathNL, can you see the redundancy of the brick levels at the edge between the 2 different sloped tiles?
12:54<LeviathNL>the fix to stop the kirby trains from taking over the world?
12:55<+glx>the debug stuff to fix this yes
12:55<LeviathNL>Wolf01, yes now i see what you mean
12:57<Wolf01>lowering the bottom slopes by one level will solve also the alignment with the full sloped corner tiles
12:57|-|LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
12:58<BiA|pavel-css>but at this state, it can only remove money :P
12:59<LeviathNL>Wolf01, so only 4 tiles will change?
12:59<+glx>hmm I can say it probably never go in trunk
12:59<BiA|pavel-css>i know ;)
12:59<Wolf01>4 tiles for every step, so 16
13:01<LeviathNL>Won' t the full-sloped tiles need to be lowered also?
13:02<LeviathNL>oh, no they won' t :)
13:02<LeviathNL>I never noticed that alignment issue
13:03<BiA|pavel-css>well, this is my fifth patch and all are just things that boost my gameplay with friends ;) and i am almost sure, noone of them will get to trunk at least i dont see any idea of patch which can get to trunk
13:04<@Belugas>there are plenty of suggestions in forums. Most of them are pure craziness, but who knows, you might find something useful in here
13:05<LeviathNL>oh wait they do. :o I'm confusing
13:06<BiA|pavel-css>Belugas: there is 3suggestions i really like, but ... all is impossible atm with my programing leasons so i just wait if sameone do them
13:07<LeviathNL>Wolf01, but the alignment issue with the fullsloped issue is not related to the bottom-sloped tiles. just an error in the sprite
13:07<@Belugas>which ones? out of curiosity
13:07<LeviathNL>I also noticed another mis-colored pixel on the full-sloped tiles facing South
13:07<Wolf01>i'll fix it
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13:08<BiA|pavel-css>depots like stations i.e. one way in, other out of depot :)
13:09<hylje>BiA|pavel-css: also train-length-constrained
13:09<hylje>BiA|pavel-css: and need enough space for warehousing
13:09<BiA|pavel-css>and not one-tile-depo can hold unlimited trains with unlimited length
13:09<BiA|pavel-css>hylje: yeah :)
13:10<BiA|pavel-css>second: PBS ... no comment needed here
13:10<BiA|pavel-css>third: programable signals .... at least with function speed limit or sth ... ;)
13:10<@Belugas>depots like stations <--- good luck, but... will not be in trunk (my opinion). Plus, it will be a nightmare
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13:11<Gonozal_VIII>depots connected to a dock where a ship comes and delivers your trains after some time :-)
13:11<@Belugas>PBS... get yourself a really good book on C++ ;)
13:11<BiA|pavel-css>Gonozal_VIII: hehe
13:11<BiA|pavel-css>Belugas: this mean, it's easy? :o)
13:11<@Belugas>programmable signals... that seems like the "easiest" of them all
13:12<Gonozal_VIII>programmable switches :D
13:12<@Belugas>BiA|pavel-css, i really doubt it would be easy, really
13:12<@Belugas>nor fun to do...
13:13<BiA|pavel-css>since were stupid patch is giving me error, i cant handle it :-/
13:13<BiA|pavel-css>*since stupid patch
13:13<Wolf01>LeviathNL, i can't see it :(
13:13<@Belugas>and by the way, try to work on something that does not add "YET" another patch setting... those are quite boring...
13:13<BiA|pavel-css>will do :)
13:14<LordAzamath>hmm....try to think something autoroad was
13:14<@Belugas>and why are they called "patches" settings anyway??? those are full blown settings... We are not patching anything
13:14<@Belugas>diagonal tunnels!
13:14<Gonozal_VIII>diagonal bridges, roads and tunnels :-)
13:15<LordAzamath>@belugas :D
13:15<LeviathNL>Wolf01, it is one very sneaky bastard:
13:15<@Belugas>was not aware :) thanks LordAzamath
13:16<Gonozal_VIII>i don't see anything special in that circle? :S
13:16<Wolf01>strange, i used the flood fill to search and destroy it, but i missed it :P
13:16<BiA|pavel-css>Gonozal_VIII: you are not alone :D
13:17<Gonozal_VIII>but the row next to it is thicker...
13:17<LordAzamath>a brighter pixel I guess is the issue
13:19[~]BiA|pavel-css is gonna try to do some cool AI
13:20<LordAzamath>..but that's in squirrel not c(++)...although I have no idea of differences :D
13:20<Wolf01>LeviathNL try these :)
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13:24<@Belugas>one idea that i liked very much was the one Bilbo came up with, the pile of dirt one.
13:24<@Belugas>basically, all that you dig up somewhere, you have to put somewhere else, with a aprice to it
13:25<BiA|pavel-css>hehe :)
13:25<BiA|pavel-css>here come another idea, that one tile have some "tons" and you will have to transport it by trucks/trains to that another location :)
13:26<Gonozal_VIII>special trucks that don't need roads :-)
13:27|-|Farden [] has joined #openttd
13:27<BiA|pavel-css>:-/ ... when you dig up, you wil have to transport that dirt by your own :)
13:28<BiA|pavel-css>Gonozal_VIII: help me and translocate my sentense to english :)
13:28<+glx>or you pay someone else to transport it ;)
13:28<@Belugas>i was more thinking of virtual dirt than physical one
13:28<@Belugas>a bit like dirt-credits
13:28<@Belugas>just an indicator in the player struct
13:29<@Belugas>the more you dig, the more the indicator grows
13:29<Gonozal_VIII>i know the idea... but some animated trucks that drive around and get the dirt would be nice :-)
13:29<@Belugas>don't like the idea...
13:29<BiA|pavel-css>animated truck :X
13:30<@Belugas>like... when you build railways, do you see construction trains? with rails, wood and such?
13:30<+glx>and some people already think there are too many animations
13:30<@Belugas>or roads?
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>that's the next thing :D
13:31<@Belugas>that is the LAST thing ;)
13:31<Wolf01>LeviathNL, move down those slopes ;)
13:31<@Belugas>or rather the NONE thing
13:31<Gonozal_VIII>ok you're right... useful features are more important then some eyecandy
13:31<@Belugas>you bet
13:31<LeviathNL>Wolf01, haha sorry, I was waiting for you to repaint them :P
13:32|-|mikegrb Your nick is now oom_killer
13:32<LordAzamath>one thing that was in coop server mentioned once was that it could be possible to see how much have you changed terraform from know they dont' like tf very much :D
13:32|-|oom_killer Your nick is now mikegrb
13:32<LordAzamath>terrain from the beg...*
13:33<@Belugas>for me, it is as usefull as the announcment of record speed idea
13:33<LeviathNL>Wolf01, look ok now. but because of the gridlines which are the same color as the vertical part of the slopes some steps look larger
13:34<LordAzamath>railroad tycoon?
13:34<LeviathNL>can also be seen in 2 vs 3 pixels height
13:34<@Belugas>or Locomotion? don't know. I've nt experienced it myself
13:34<Wolf01>uhm, i see that the borders of the normal slopes are a pixel too thick, or maybe are the other borders a pixel less thick... complete redraw?
13:34<Gonozal_VIII>aah gridlines... how about them being extra sprites that you can turn on and off during the game?
13:35<Wolf01>no, they are bricks, not gridless terrain :D
13:35<@Belugas>do you feel like redrawing all ground tiles? Ask Wolf01 how much of a pain in the lower back it is ...
13:36<@Belugas>And, for the recrod, I LOVE the grid ground type
13:36<LeviathNL>I always found it strange that ground tiles must be repainted on for example railroad-tiles
13:36<Wolf01>but i painted all of them one by one, pixel per bixel... :D
13:36<LordAzamath>what about converting some 32bpp to 8bpp? And for the record, I also don't mind those gridlines
13:37<Gonozal_VIII>newterrain looks good without gridlines :-)
13:37<LeviathNL>I don' t mind the gridlines but I do the idea of them being part of ground tiles
13:37<@Belugas>[13:42] <Gonozal_VIII> newterrain looks good without gridlines :-) <--- they look boring, with perspective illusion harder to get. That's my own impression
13:38<Gonozal_VIII>that's why i suggested gridline sprites that you can turn on and off
13:38<LeviathNL>Wolf01, right now you blast a 2pixel layer of the ground tiles then demolishing hem :P
13:38<@Belugas>i do not see what is the fuzz about gridless ground, other than the eternal and ho so hatred Realism
13:38<LordAzamath>talking about all new terrain and is the 8bpp graphics replacement project going :D
13:38<@Belugas>dunno, not my stuff
13:38<LordAzamath>I have no idea what stalled means :D
13:39<LordAzamath>whose then?
13:39<@Belugas>stalled? it means they are waiting for you to continue their work ;)
13:39<LordAzamath>for me?
13:39<@Belugas>and not as beta tester!!
13:39<LordAzamath>I'm doing 32bpp
13:39<LordAzamath>not 8bpp
13:40<LordAzamath>hmm...what about beta2 tester?
13:41<LordAzamath>actually...there are lot's of things already done..which are listed on that page
13:42<LordAzamath>so why not revive it, so OTTD wouldn't indeed have any (c) issues or pseudo-issues
13:42<@Belugas>my guess is taht since the retirement of Alltaken, no one voluntered to hold control of the project
13:42<LordAzamath>which isn't very hard to do though
13:42[~]Belugas consecrates LordAzamath as a new candidate for the direction of the project
13:43<BiA|pavel-css>Belugas: tell sameone that with this forum colors i can't see attachments :)
13:43[~]LordAzamath will give it a thought
13:43<Gonozal_VIII>hmm put everything that's ready into the nightlies/beta for people to see?
13:43[~]Belugas points all complains of the forums scheme to his friend orudge
13:44<Wolf01>LeviathNL, you will kill me, but i'm adding a pixel at the tile borders of the slopes to make them more consistent with the borders :P
13:44<LeviathNL>Wolf01, how about blowing off a layer of brick instead of only the studs?
13:44<LordAzamath>but as it seems you are not very ....dunno the word... to include any external grf's
13:44<LordAzamath>like generic tram set in example
13:44<Wolf01>what do you mean?
13:45<LeviathNL>the same as now but the fully demolished tiles will be down 2 pixels
13:46<@Belugas>once more... why generic tram set should it be included? People can find it by themselves. It is not even hard to find. Too bad lazyness cannot kill...
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13:46<@Belugas>ho... suddenly, an image of baby birds just popped up in my head
13:46<Gonozal_VIII>soooo why not include it? the game supports trams but doesn't have them by default...
13:47<LordAzamath>once more...for it would be great to have any use of a already implemented feature in multi
13:47<@orudge>Belugas: pfft :P
13:47<@orudge>(re: complaints)
13:47<@orudge>it's only for Christmas ;)
13:47<@orudge>or maybe I'll put the normal theme on at Christmas, and the winter theme year round
13:47<@Belugas>for the record, orudge, i like the forums scheme
13:47<@orudge>good good
13:47<BiA|pavel-css>but i cant see link with black background color :)
13:48<BiA|pavel-css>LeviathNL: as you are working on 32bpp, is anywhere downloadable graphics which was introduced a while ago ... ?
13:48<BiA|pavel-css>like this:
13:49<LeviathNL>I don't know, I'm that into 32bpp I only do the offsets for Wolf01
13:50<LordAzamath> you mean like this?
13:51[~]LordAzamath thinks how did Belugas again manage to not answer to request to include Generic Tram Set...
13:51<BiA|pavel-css>ah, that my question was mentioned to LordAzamath :)
13:52<@Belugas>i did, LordAzamath:
13:52<@Belugas>[13:51] <@Belugas> once more... why generic tram set should it be included? People can find it by themselves. It is not even hard to find. Too bad lazyness cannot kill...
13:52<LordAzamath>20:45:11Gonozal_VIII soooo why not include it? the game supports trams but doesn't have them by default...20:45:18LordAzamath once more...for it would be great to have any use of a already implemented feature in multi
13:52<@Belugas>[13:52] <@Belugas> ho... suddenly, an image of baby birds just popped up in my head
13:52<svippy>Argh! I am tasting the horror of different speed trains on the same tracks again!
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13:53<BiA|pavel-css>yeah, we need programable signals :)
13:53<Gonozal_VIII>same reasoning.... why release a beta when people can just use nightlies instead?
13:53<svippy>That link failed, Belugas.
13:53<@orudge>ah, httpL, that lovely new protocol
13:53<@orudge>http with added laughing
13:54<BiA|pavel-css>Gonozal_VIII: actually i dont see any reason why use beta since nightlies are so cool .)
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13:56<LordAzamath>I just checked out generictrams_v0.32.grf Latest version (18/07/2007), with passenger, goods and mail trams. (89.19 KB) Downloaded 3865 times
13:56<LordAzamath>is it really toooo hard to include?
13:57<LordAzamath>3865 times
13:57<LordAzamath>and lot's of players don't even know about tt-forums
13:57<@Belugas>LordAzamath, another pretty good reason, is that the author never (to my knowledge) presented himself and offered it. Plus, it would mean WE would be responsible for debugging it, if evr one bug came out of it. And don't tell me the author would supplly us the fix... Just look at the group feature...
13:58<LeviathNL>Wolf01, I meant like this:
13:58<@Belugas>so, now, you know the situation. No freaking begging, please
13:58<LordAzamath>but how come you include patches to trunk?
13:58<LordAzamath>"Plus, it would mean WE would be responsible for debugging it, if evr one bug came out of it. And don't tell me the author would supplly us the fix..."
13:58<Wolf01>i'll see what i can do
13:58<BiA|pavel-css>yeah, i have same question :)
13:59<@Belugas>LordAzamath: after lenghtly examination, after carefull testing, etc etc.... IT's not everything that goes into trunk
13:59<LordAzamath>oh njeh...hopeless discussion....
13:59<LordAzamath>in that case
13:59<@Belugas>[14:03] <LordAzamath> and lot's of players don't even know about tt-forums <--- such a good argument...
14:00<@Belugas>[14:02] <LordAzamath> 3865 times <--- at least, some do !
14:00<LordAzamath>I meant that then there would be a lot more users of generic tram setr
14:00<LordAzamath>It's like I have three classmates, who play ottd
14:01<LordAzamath>in 8th grade
14:01<LordAzamath>and they seem to have always the latest stables
14:01<LordAzamath>and they have bever used a grf
14:01<Wolf01>LeviathNL can you do a try with the thick borders? the offsets are the same
14:01<LordAzamath>and they know nothing about forums
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>just look at the server list, most servers are stable without any grfs
14:02<@Belugas>not really curious folks... I hope you educated them a little..
14:02<LordAzamath>a little
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14:03<LordAzamath>so whatever my argumentation would be you'll never going to include it...:( sorry to hear
14:03<@Belugas>you see, the day i first got my hands on OTTD, I was so thrilled to waht i've discovered that i wanted to learn more about it. Guess what, it didn't took me long to find the website
14:04<@Belugas>which, incidentlt was already linked to the forums
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>yes same for me.. but not all people are like that
14:04<LordAzamath>I started playing ttd out of boredom on some very old crappy machine this summer!
14:05<LordAzamath>and it took me some time to look for help how to install patch there a lot later
14:05<LordAzamath>and I started openttding in middle-end august
14:06<LordAzamath>see my first post
14:06|-|SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
14:06<LordAzamath>ok not even this summer
14:06<LordAzamath>a few months before summer holidays
14:07<@Belugas>hello SmatZ
14:07<@Belugas>so you learned :)
14:09<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
14:09<LordAzamath>sorry my enter key needed cleaning
14:10<LeviathNL>Wolf01, looks great!
14:11<SmatZ>Belugas: "686% of an estimated 8k tonnes transported" ... is there any upper limit for this?
14:12<LeviathNL>Wolf01, shall I upload the tar?
14:12<Wolf01>i think i should do the other 12 corners before a release
14:13<@Belugas>dunno, SmatZ. It might be a bug. might as wel investigate. you can reproduce?
14:13<LeviathNL>I meant to you so you could see it yourself
14:13<@Belugas>hehehe.. my first forum post was a bug report :D
14:13<Wolf01>a screenshot should be enough :P
14:14<LeviathNL> :P
14:15[~]LeviathNL notices the fullslope facing north is not correct yet
14:16<LordAzamath>Belugas..funny to your first post and answer
14:16<LordAzamath>especially now
14:16<Wolf01>uhm... i'm not convinced about the colors :P
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>and east
14:17<LeviathNL>Gonozal_VIII, ?
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>well... all direcitons
14:18<LeviathNL>Gonozal_VIII, I don't see it..
14:19<@Belugas>LordAzamath : yeah indeed :) plus, i was not able to write in C/C++ back then (sometimers, i still think i can't ;) )
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14:23<Wolf01>doh, the V shaped slopes...
14:25<LordAzamath>Belugas ...Now imagine that I had a lot of time and I'd want to do that...If I would start coordinating the 8bpp replacement.. (I'm NOT saying I will), would ther be a chance that if all graphics are collected (with agreement to use them), would they be included instead of current trg*(r).grfs? Because this needs to be done, because as I'm convinced the need for 8bpp doesn't go away anywhere....
14:26|-|Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:26<LordAzamath>and btw what's in
14:26<@Belugas> is for sounds
14:26<@Belugas>8bpp is there to stay a long time
14:27<LordAzamath>yes, I understand
14:27<@Belugas>yes, if we can come up with a finished set of 8bpp replacement, with authors aggrement, it surely will get into trunk
14:27<@Belugas>ad yes, i agree too that is has to be done
14:29<LordAzamath>ok...I'll think of starting to ask permissions for things..
14:29<LordAzamath>like ttrs for town buildings...
14:29<LordAzamath>but I'll think
14:30<@Belugas>ttrs? mhhh... ttrs3 does not have the vote of everyone... ttrs2 was more suitable for the job
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14:31<LordAzamath>and that's exactly what needs to be start asking 1.permissions 2.opinions
14:32<LordAzamath>it would be useless, if people themselves don't like it
14:32<LordAzamath>who play it
14:32<@Belugas>and a battle plan of what sprites are done and what are yet to be done
14:33<LordAzamath> an outdated
14:33<LeviathNL>Wolf01, fixed the V-shaped slopes
14:33<LordAzamath>thing that can be updated
14:33<Wolf01>yes, is possible to fix them without redraw, but the offsets change
14:33[~]Belugas goes back in his work@work coccoon
14:34<LordAzamath>you're at work :D
14:35<@Belugas>let see... it is right now 14:41, in quebec canada... Yup, pretty much at work
14:35|-|Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:36[~]Wolf01 <- dinner
14:37<Gonozal_VIII_>so you're 6 hours and 6 minutes behind cet?
14:37<Gonozal_VIII_>no wait...
14:37<Gonozal_VIII_>5 hours 54 minutes :-)
14:37<LordAzamath>you know we have 7 hrs in between :D it's 21:36
14:38<LordAzamath>and I have to do my homework too :D
14:38<Gonozal_VIII_>it's 20:38:25
14:39<LordAzamath>ok...gotta go
14:39<Gonozal_VIII_>shit homework...
14:39[~]LordAzamath is going to do some homework
14:39<Gonozal_VIII_>you shouldn't have said that, now i feel bad about not doing mine right now
14:41<@Belugas>muwhahaha.... let's go kids, finish your meals and start your homework!
14:42[~]LordAzamath slaps Belugas with a workbook
14:43|-|erikv [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:43<Gonozal_VIII_>hmm can't do that, it's eTutor homework..
14:46<LordAzamath> Igotta go offline
14:46|-|LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
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14:51<BiA|pavel-css>if i want somehow make programable signals, i need sprites for it right? :X
14:52<Gonozal_VIII_>programmable switches :D
14:52<@Belugas>or maybe just draw some pretty basic sprites and ask someone to do it
14:52<BiA|pavel-css>Gonozal_VIII_: what do you eman?
14:53<Gonozal_VIII_>the remove the pathfinding from the trains and let the switches direct them
14:53<BiA|pavel-css>hmm :)
14:53|-|FranZ [] has joined #openttd
14:54<FranZ>Hi,first i wanted to say that you guys are doing a great job and i'm very thankful for that. I wanted to download the new version of openttd (0.6beta2) but the open source web site doesn't allow me to download it (every single mirror link is broken). the i tried the direct download link but the server sent me the beta 1 version (but with the right name: "openttd-0.6.0-beta2-win32.exe"). i hope you gonna fix this as soon as possible :)
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15:01<BiA|pavel-css>hmm, i just tryed and dont work :)
15:04|-|mikl [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt]
15:04<@Belugas>FranZ, you could grab a nightly. It is pretty much the same thing. Plus, there is at least one bug fix on nightly. I do't know why Download fails on sourceforge though. I'm downloading right now, and it's extremely slow
15:05<FranZ>ok, thank you
15:13<BiA|pavel-css>heh, i am looking at yapf .... i think i wont write taht patch :X
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15:15|-|Svish [] has joined #openttd
15:18<Svish>anyone here?
15:18<Svish>could someone help me explain this ->
15:19<@Belugas>FranZ, i've jsust downloaded thewin32 zip file, and it contains a valid beta2 executable
15:19<Svish>why do I get a green light down by the train depot?
15:19<BiA|pavel-css>Svish: wrong use
15:19<BiA|pavel-css>switch that "yeallow"
15:19<Svish>BiA|pavel-css: yeah, i kind of get that, but what did I do wrong? :p
15:19<Gonozal_VIII_>explain what exactly?
15:19<hylje>Svish: wrong type of exit signal
15:19<hylje>Svish: you want combo signals
15:20<+glx>Svish: because you invert combo and entry
15:20<Svish>I have used entry as combo and combo as entry
15:20<Svish>that explains things!
15:20<Svish>not that weird that my systems doesn't work that well at the moment, lol
15:21<Svish>bit too long ago since I played this I think :p
15:21<Svish>well, thank you alot! ill go do some ctrl-clicking on signals.. :p
15:22<Svish>btw, is it possible to run openttd without the original graphic files from the original game? is there a basic replacement package or something? couldn't find anything... but im pretty sure it should be somewhere?
15:22<Svish>i have the original, but for a friend of mine
15:23<@Belugas>Svish: nope. you still require original files
15:23<hylje>i believe one can replace all the gfx with newgrf, but there's still the need for orig
15:23<SmatZ> red semaphores, oh no, they are forever red!
15:23<Gonozal_VIII_>are not
15:24<Gonozal_VIII_>change one of them
15:24<SmatZ>bug bug bug bug bug omg
15:24<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII_: I am making fun a bit :)
15:26<+glx>SmatZ: I can't remember how to reproduce that
15:26<Gonozal_VIII_>buuuut that still isn't entirely right... you removed the train, so they shouldn't be red anymore
15:26<BiA|pavel-css>ban, he made a bug! :D
15:26<hylje>glx: put a loop of combo signals in, put a train inside, remove train
15:27<SmatZ>glx: they are combo-signals... driv... hah hylje said that
15:27<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII_: true :-)
15:27<Gonozal_VIII_>if someone builds a weird presignal system it could lock red...
15:28<@Bjarni>sounds like real life
15:28<@Bjarni>let me put it this way: the first time is the hardest
15:28<Gonozal_VIII_>a roundabout junction where you forget to add an exit at the exit...
15:28<@Bjarni>but it's never routine to pass a red signal
15:29<@Bjarni>even with a permission from the station master
15:29<Sacro>Bjarni: tis when i'm driving
15:35<Gonozal_VIII_>hehe i built some crossings that deadlock before a train can even enter them
15:35<@Bjarni>and you are proud of that?
15:36<Gonozal_VIII_>yes because i intended to do that :D
15:37<@Bjarni>"I am realy sorry but I am struggling to understand our grammer." <--- hahaha
15:37<@Bjarni>*really **your
15:37<Gonozal_VIII_>what where who
15:37<@Bjarni>2nd post
15:38|-|Andzy [~Andzy@] has joined #openttd
15:38<Gonozal_VIII_>Location: Eastleigh England^^
15:38<LeviathNL>What do you guys use on linux to solve conflicts on svn?
15:38<@Bjarni>also nice spelling of grammar
15:38<+glx>text editor
15:38<Andzy>hello all.
15:38<@Bjarni>LeviathNL: text editor
15:39<@Bjarni>hi Andzy
15:39<@Bjarni>do we know you? :)
15:39<+glx>LeviathNL: search for <<<<
15:39<Andzy>not really :P im just a random guy that goes in tt-forums alot lol
15:39<Andzy>never really registered :(
15:39<Andzy>for the past 3 years i still visit the forums lol.
15:40<@Belugas>a ghost user :)
15:40<@Belugas>well.. welcome in here
15:40<Gonozal_VIII_>how come that the only new posts in the ttdpatch section are in the graphics part? don't they have bugs or suggestions or something?
15:40<@Bjarni>Andzy: well... you have been spotted.... save some energy and decloak now ;)
15:40<Andzy>thanks :P
15:41<DaleStan>We do have bugs and suggestions. But they get fixed, dismissed as not-a-bug, implemented, or dismissed as impossible, not discussed.
15:41<Andzy>Just visiting the chatroom, never talked to a Dev of OpenTTD o.o
15:41<+glx>now you did ;)
15:41<@Belugas>devs are normal guys ;)
15:41<Andzy>I remembered when there was no openttd and only ttdpatch lol.
15:41<@Belugas>welll... most of them ;)
15:42<SmatZ>maybe some of them
15:42<Andzy>Just wondering if the rumors are true.. that TTDpatch is dying ?
15:42[~]SmatZ remembers when there was no TTDPatch
15:42<@Bjarni> <Belugas> devs are normal guys ;) <-- at least that is what we try to trick people to believe
15:42<Andzy>yes =p i played TT with no deluxe lol
15:43<Andzy>so devs aren't normal people ? O_o
15:43<Sacro>Andzy: course not
15:43<@Belugas>TTDPatch has this tendancy to be full of surprises. Right now, i would say it is moving slowly, but i would not be surprised if it will speed up sometime soon
15:43<Andzy>i bet the devs have above 120 iq average =P
15:43<Sacro>we manufacture them
15:43<@Bjarni>who is dragging us down?
15:43<Sacro>my IQ is too high to be a dev :D
15:43<@Belugas>read craziness ;)
15:44<Andzy>im having a dilemma to be honest
15:44<Maarten>[12:41:34] [@Belugas]: devs are normal guys ;) <--- I will need some proof of this statement. :P
15:44<Andzy>i love both ttdpatch and openttd
15:44<Andzy>can i merge both ? lol :p
15:44<DaleStan>I expect Patch will "speed up", at least somewhat, when patchman comes back from Real Life.
15:44<@Belugas>now, that is insanity to the outmost!
15:44<Gonozal_VIII_>pff they wouldn't let anyone with an iq below 150 anywhere near the code
15:44<SmatZ>so true
15:44<Andzy>110-120 average iq for devs :p
15:44<@Bjarni>and not without proper training either
15:45<Andzy>above 121+ no wai.
15:45<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII_: don't quite get that high
15:45[~]Sacro is 144
15:45<Andzy>zomg 144
15:45<Andzy>pure genious
15:45<Andzy>next albert einstein
15:45<+glx>if only ;)
15:45<Maarten>I was 131 and 132 the last 2 times I did an IQ test...
15:45<BiA|pavel-css>where in OTTD is GetMyIQ(); ? :P
15:45<@Belugas>somehow, i do not feel like a dev lol!
15:45<@Bjarni>even though I don't trust that number even if it is true I can say: Sacro: I'm smarter than you :P
15:45<Gonozal_VIII_>sacro, we were talking about iq, not height in cm
15:46<Sacro>Bjarni: what is your IQ?
15:46<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII_: i'm not that short :p
15:46<@Belugas>or weight in kilos lol!
15:46<+glx>could be size in mm ;)
15:46|-|Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:47[~]SmatZ afraids of sexually oriented messages soone
15:47<BiA|pavel-css><Maarten> I was 131 and 132 the last 2 times I did an IQ test... --- where you did iq test? :P
15:47<Andzy>in wikipedia Albert was rumored to have 160-180 iq o.o
15:47<Sacro>Belugas: damn you :p
15:47<@Bjarni><Sacro> Bjarni: what is your IQ? <--- I'm not telling you. It will make you feel sad. However I can tell you that I have outsmarted an IQ test, complained about it and they had to say that I was correct
15:47<Sacro>glx: perve
15:47<@Bjarni>the test wasn't good enough
15:47<+glx>Sacro: no you are :)
15:47<BiA|pavel-css>Bjarni: lol :)
15:47<Sacro>glx: just what do you think is 144mm long?
15:48<Maarten>BiA|pavel-css: A written test I did about 5 years ago, and about 2 years ago I did one online, but I can't remember where.
15:48<SmatZ>Bjarni: yeah, once I did a test - and there was a note "If you think you are correct, you can count your answer too" ... then I had like 165
15:48<Andzy>haha.. wow.. a little girl sent Albert Einstein a mail it says "2026I2019m writing to you because my cousin and I had a bet. He said you had 175 in entiledgence. And I said you had 190. Which one of us is right. 2026 My inteligence is 145."
15:49<@Bjarni>also it was funny at the conscription office. All males has to go there when they turn 18 and they test all sorts of stuff including IQ... They wanted me to go to uni when they looked at my IQ test but they didn't tell me what it said
15:49<svippy>newindustries sure is making map creation slow.
15:50<@Belugas>price to pay...
15:50<Gonozal_VIII_>but you do know that einstein is dead?
15:50<+glx>svippy: of course, many industries are very difficult to place with TGP
15:50<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII_: he still lives... in our hearst
15:50<@Bjarni>SmatZ: not to mention minds
15:50<Gonozal_VIII_>but you can't mail to your heart^^
15:51<BiA|pavel-css>Andzy: what was your question? :)
15:52<Andzy>=P can i mix both ttdpatchy and openttd ?
15:52<Andzy>so i have to choose ? *Cries* but but i love both.
15:52|-|Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
15:52<SmatZ>Andzy: you can load some older TTDPatch savegames in OTTD
15:52<Gonozal_VIII_>well you could mix them...
15:52<+glx>you can use both
15:53[~]BiA|pavel-css never played TTDpatch only TTD :)
15:53<Andzy>How do you exactly mix them if its possible
15:53|-|HerzogDeXtE1 [] has joined #openttd
15:53<Gonozal_VIII_>read the code, write a new version with all the features you want :-)
15:53<@Bjarni>ttdpatch is designed to modify specific parts of the binary so it works only on binaries where it knows where everything is stored. OpenTTD will in theory store stuff at different locations each time the source is changed so there would be need for patch porting for every single revision of OpenTTD
15:54<Prof_Frink>Andzy: Play one, save, close, play t'other.
15:54<@Bjarni>just not worth it
15:54<Andzy>if only i was such a genious i would probably do that lol
15:54<@Bjarni><Andzy> How do you exactly mix them if its possible <-- read the code in ttdpatch and write the same code in a way that works with openttd
15:54<Prof_Frink>Or vice versa of course.
15:55<SmatZ>Prof_Frink: exactly
15:55<@Bjarni><Andzy> if only i was such a genious <-- considering what you just asked I presume that you can't personally mix them
15:55<DaleStan><Bjarni> ttdpatch ... works only on binaries where it knows where everything is stored. <-- Not so. The nightlies have no information on where the data to be patched is located.
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15:55<@Bjarni>DaleStan: you have to figure it out first hence the need for porting
15:55<DaleStan>It does have to be able find everything that's supposed to be patched, but thats a different issue.
15:55<@Bjarni>and it's just not worth it
15:56<Andzy>hmmm i guess i have to do a "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" between the two.
15:56<Gonozal_VIII_>just try both
15:56<Andzy>i have!
15:56<Andzy>there are things i like about ttdpatch, and same thing with openttd
15:56<BiA|pavel-css>then use ottd ^^
15:56<Andzy>and stuff aren't in ttdpatch are in ottd vice versa o.o
15:56<Gonozal_VIII_>then choose what fits your gameplay best
15:56<@Bjarni>DaleStan: we can agree that if we take one nightly build we will be able to find the stuff we want to patch and write a patch for it... but it's simply not worth the time, right?
15:57<Prof_Frink>Andzy: Play ttdpatch, then pester the openttd devs to add PBS and custombridgeheads
15:57<Andzy>wah ?
15:57<Andzy>why don't you do it =x i don't want devs to hate me
15:57[~]Bjarni slaps Prof_Frink
15:57<Prof_Frink>Oi! openttd devs! Add PBS and custombridgeheads!
15:57<Gonozal_VIII_>custombridgeheads is nice... and enhancedtunnels...
15:57<@Bjarni>don't increase the workload
15:57<Prof_Frink>Yes! And enhancedtunnels!
15:58<Andzy>Maybe someday both will merge XD just a dream thou
15:58<@Bjarni>why not bridges over bridges while we are at it?
15:58<Andzy>i tried locomotion.. :( didnt like it.
15:58<BiA|pavel-css>what about tunelts?
15:58<@Bjarni>and controllable UFOs so you chase them to locations where only other companies are and stuff
15:58<Prof_Frink>Andzy: They won't merge, but eventually openttd will get features equivalent to all of ttdpatch's
15:59<BiA|pavel-css>or we can hope so :)
15:59<Prof_Frink>*Won't* it, Bjarni
15:59<Andzy>won't the devs from ttdpatch get mad if ottd does that ? =o
15:59<BiA|pavel-css>sure :P
15:59<Andzy>*confuse* i bet some dev would say "your stealing my code, etc" or whatever lol
15:59<Gonozal_VIII_>the ufos kind of suck... most of the time they land on the same place
15:59<Andzy>"thats my idea" o_O ?
15:59<Prof_Frink>Nah, they'll just invent more stuff for openttd to shamelessly copy under the terms of the GPL
15:59<DaleStan>Yeah, Right, Prof_Frink. The ability to play something that's indistinguishable from TTD will never be allowed by Open.
16:00<@Bjarni><Andzy> won't the devs from ttdpatch get mad if ottd does that ? =o <-- time will tell... in a way you can say that it's appreciating their work to include the ideas
16:00<@Belugas>Andzy, it is technically impossible to merge both engines.
16:00|-|HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:00<Andzy>Ottd is C++ ?
16:00<@Bjarni><Andzy> "thats my idea" o_O ? <-- that already happened :(
16:00<Andzy>Belugas: yeah >_<
16:00<Andzy>Bjarni: :(
16:00<DaleStan>And then there are the actual features that are "too complicated for the average user" or something.
16:00<Prof_Frink>(un)fortunately, the GPL explicitly states that this is allowed
16:00<@Bjarni><Andzy> Ottd is C++ ? <-- it's C that's converted to C++ so it's C++ with a C structure
16:01<Prof_Frink>DaleStan: You're thinking of gnome-openttd
16:01<Andzy>I just read this thread in ttd forums.. about a person leaving ttdpatch, it seems like its fallin apart somehow =x
16:01<@Belugas>[16:02] <Prof_Frink> Andzy: Play ttdpatch, then pester the openttd devs to add PBS and custombridgeheads <--- or even better, write it yourself!
16:01<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: You mean: It's asm rewritten in C that's converted...
16:01<Andzy>=P all of you should have waited for each other and made one patch OpenTTDpatch or something >_<
16:02<Andzy>having 2 different teams competing and fighting doesn't help
16:02<@Bjarni>Andzy: and we should have started 10 years earlier too, right?
16:02<Andzy>but its just my opinion :p sorry lol
16:02<Gonozal_VIII_>they're not fighting
16:02<Prof_Frink>Andzy: Without ttdpatch it's unlikely that there would have been enough interest in TTD for ludde to make the initial conversion.
16:02<Gonozal_VIII_>yes start 10 years earlier, now!
16:02<@Bjarni><Andzy> having 2 different teams competing and fighting doesn't help <--- I don't think it's a real fight
16:02<+glx>Andzy: TTDPatch is a patch, OpenTTD is a clone, so they are totally different
16:02<@Belugas>i never felt like competing with ttdpatch. this is silly
16:02<Andzy>okay well internet fight is not really a fight XD
16:03<Andzy>my bad.
16:03<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII_: Do I look like The Doctor?
16:03<+glx>and newgrf specs are a nice thing
16:03<@Belugas>do not mix some users with devs...
16:03<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: well... at least your hairline does
16:03<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Which Doctor?
16:04<Andzy>well if ttdpatch and openttd came together would it actually work ?
16:04<@Belugas>it is impossible
16:04<Andzy>too many conflicting ideas ?
16:04<@Belugas>no... too many differnces in the way things are done
16:04|-|LordAzamath [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: this is The Doctor
16:04<DaleStan>Too many conflicting languages. TTDPatch is written in x86 assembly. OpenTTD has to run on non-x86 processors.
16:05<@Belugas>ttdp = ASM openttd = C/C++.
16:05<Andzy>:( Person A: "do this" Person B: "No do this"
16:05<Andzy>I know they are writted in different codes
16:05<@Belugas>plus, ttdp requires original exec. openttd only requires original data
16:05<Andzy>but Openttd can probably copy ttdpatch ones
16:05<Andzy>thou the devs from ttdp would be pissed o.O
16:05<@Belugas>for your info, Dalestan is a dev of TTDP.
16:06<@Bjarni>you can't copy x86 ASM code and paste it into some CPU independent code
16:06<Prof_Frink>These are The Doctor:
16:06<Gonozal_VIII_>they can't copy it, they have to find a different way to do the same things
16:06<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: who?
16:06<Andzy>nuuu.. im talking about a feature in TTDpatch, which OPENTTD can easily implement it, but the Devs from TTDpatch might not like it.
16:06<@Bjarni>what feature?
16:07<@Belugas>look at newindustries and newhouses in openttd. where do you think it came?
16:07<@Bjarni>in svn?
16:07<+glx>and were not easy to do
16:07<@Belugas>and while i was implementing newindustries, i had an awfull lot of help fomr csaboak himself, the guy who created it in ttdp
16:07<@Bjarni><Andzy> thou the devs from ttdp would be pissed o.O <--- why? I didn't flame the patch when they added autoreplace
16:08<Andzy>Bjarni: you know how people are.
16:08<+glx>only users want a war
16:08<@Belugas>Andzy, you obviously do not know the devs of either team
16:08<@Bjarni>Belugas: pay more attention to who says what instead of only what they say... you mistyped his name :P
16:08<@Belugas>did i?
16:08<@Bjarni>I think
16:09<Andzy>i don't know any devs from either side x_x
16:09<@Bjarni>that looks better
16:09<@Bjarni>Andzy: that's the usual thing... people don't know shit and then they presume stuff
16:09<@Belugas>well... let say, Andzy, that you have talked to 3 from openttd and 1 from ttdp
16:09<@Bjarni>telling each other
16:10<@Bjarni>and all of a sudden everybody knows that the US government is hiding aliens in Area 51
16:10<Andzy>awhile ago someone here even said "different idea's" caused problems with the 2 sides. =\
16:10<Gonozal_VIII_>but they are!
16:10<@Bjarni>and it's the truth because everybody knows it
16:10<+glx>the alien is Zoidberg, and the ship is bender ;)
16:11<@Bjarni>glx: no the ship is Ship, but Ship has a crush on Bender
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16:12<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: No, the ship is Bender
16:12<@Belugas>Bender-Fender said the truck driver
16:12<Prof_Frink>And Fry's off becoming his own grandfather.
16:12<+glx>don't put metal in microwaves
16:13<@Belugas>Bending-Fender said Jimmy hendrix
16:13<Prof_Frink>During supernovae
16:13<@Bjarni>Ship is the ship... Bender is the communist detector
16:14<Gonozal_VIII_>they should show more futurama here :-(
16:14<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII_: A week.
16:14<Prof_Frink>That's how long it took me to watch Futurama.
16:15<Prof_Frink>*Never* type "kaffeine *" in your futurama directory
16:15<@Bjarni>see the future in a week
16:15<@Bjarni>sounds like a vacation advertise
16:16|-|TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:17<Andzy>Anyhoo, i picked Openttd, thanks for answering my questions guys. sorry for the troubles.
16:18<svippy>Why does the AI not suffer from the same penalties as I?
16:18<Gonozal_VIII_>soooo you picked openttd... now you have to decide between stable, beta and nightlies^^
16:18<svippy>Such as money.
16:18<@Bjarni>perfect weather :D
16:18<svippy>Unpossible, Bjarni.
16:18<@Bjarni>for the first time in ages the TV tuner has 100% in both signal quality and signal strength
16:18<@Bjarni>it's not human friendly weather though
16:19|-|jetthe [] has joined #openttd
16:19<@Bjarni>and now it dropped a bit
16:19<svippy>Things like these only last for bits of the time.
16:19<@Bjarni>luckily DVB signals don't have to be working at 100% to give a perfect picture
16:19|-|LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
16:20<@Bjarni>in fact the breakdown signal quality is around 40% so it's still great
16:20<Andzy>(r11609) is the latest ?
16:21<Rubidium>latest what?
16:21<svippy>Revision I think.
16:21<@Bjarni>nightly build?
16:22<Prof_Frink>11615 is latest rev
16:22<Gonozal_VIII_>6 revs in 2h? nice^^
16:22<@Bjarni>but nowhere near a record
16:22<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII_: 3 of them were reverting the other 3
16:23<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII_: rather 0 revs in 2h
16:23<jetthe>Sorry if this has been asked before, but is the osx-binaries for 0.6.0-beta2 waiting to be mirrored on SF? Can't seem to find them anywhere.
16:23<Andzy><3 thanks
16:23<+glx>jetthe: wait until sf does its job
16:23<Rubidium>jetthe: they have been placed on SF about 24 hours ago, so it seems like SF it not working as it should
16:23<@Bjarni>is SF still stupid when it comes to the OSX binary?
16:23<Andzy>been trying to find the stolen tree's thing in forums can't find it lol
16:23<Rubidium>you could try other mirrors
16:23<jetthe>Rubidium: Tried them all. No luck I'm afraid.
16:23|-|Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
16:24<Wolf01>LeviathNL: 2 stages finished, now i'll work on the grassy ones
16:25<@Belugas>jetthe, i was able to download the win32 zip beta2 today, on one of the mirrors. it worked, although painfully slow. so i guess it's a matter of time
16:26<Andzy>i downloaded the beta 2 one of the forums
16:26<Andzy>someone posted a direct link
16:26|-|Gonozal_VIII_ changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
16:26<@Bjarni>Belugas: it looks like none of the mirrors has the OSX binary
16:26<@Bjarni>I checked a few hours ago
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16:28<@Belugas>so it is a work in progress on their behalf...
16:28<@Belugas>welll.. nightlies wil; be the solutin fornow ^_^
16:30<Andzy>i downloaded from this ^^
16:30<@Bjarni>but it's stupid that they are so slow on their mirrors
16:31|-|Osai [] has joined #openttd
16:31<Gonozal_VIII>no torrent?
16:32<@Belugas>a rather dry one, in fact ^_^
16:32<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII has a point
16:32<@Bjarni>why didn't we make torrents?
16:33<@Belugas>truebrain used to. i think
16:33<@Bjarni>torrents would be better than the chaos we have now
16:33<@Belugas>maybe because it is a new way of doing stuff
16:34<Prof_Frink>Make a torrent, label it "goat porn" and watch the downloads skyrocket
16:34<@Bjarni>speaking of personal experience?
16:34<Prof_Frink>Everyone loves the goat.
16:35<@Bjarni>there is a bash quote like that. Some guy said that his backup worked like that and then another guy said that explained the excel file he got named as the Olsen twins naked
16:35<Gonozal_VIII>is there a .ex domain?
16:35<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: not in my list
16:36<@Bjarni>well.. the guy who tried to download that got some remarks because at that time they weren't 18 yet
16:37<LeviathNL>Wolf01, second stage done
16:37<LeviathNL>did anything change in the first stage?
16:38<Wolf01>the V tiles only
16:39<LeviathNL>did they graphically?
16:40[~]SmatZ googled for Olsen Twins pictures... do not like them
16:42<@Bjarni>I mean why did you google for them?
16:42<@Bjarni>I just said that there is an age issue
16:42<SmatZ>there is?
16:43<@Bjarni>well... I think they are like 19 now
16:43<@Bjarni>but for some reason people talked about their pictures for years
16:44<SmatZ> they are not children, for sure
16:44<@Bjarni>they look like that now?
16:45<SmatZ>I don't know, Google knows
16:45<SmatZ>it may be shopped
16:47<@Bjarni>sure looks like them compared to their official site
16:47<@Bjarni>but the official site is decent so it could be a mix of two pictures
16:47<@Bjarni>I don't think they would make pictures like that
16:48<@Bjarni>they don't need the money
16:48<SmatZ>maybe for fun
16:48<Gonozal_VIII>you think paris hilton needs the money?
16:48<SmatZ>they are not naked
16:49<@Bjarni>Paris Hilton is a freak
16:50<@Bjarni> <-- this is more or less the age where I last saw them... and I never cared much for them so I didn't even know what they looked like now
16:50<@Bjarni>I never figured out why people freaked out about them
16:51<@Belugas>got to go home
16:51<@Belugas>night guys
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>because twins are hot^^
16:51<SmatZ>night Belugas
16:51<@Bjarni>night Belugas
16:51<SmatZ>Bjarni: maybe .. too old? :-P
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm hot twins are hot...
16:51<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> because twins are hot^^ <-- get drunk... then all women are prettier and they are all twins
16:52<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: But twins become quads
16:52<@Bjarni>SmatZ: not unlikely
16:52<Gonozal_VIII>hehe but i drink as much as you do so... no
16:53<@Bjarni>basically I don't get the thing about more or less hot famous people
16:54<@Bjarni>if there is one thing you can be sure of then it's that you will never get a Hollywood star in real life
16:54<@Bjarni>there are millions of people trying to beat you to it
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>they are like other hot people.. but you see them more often and they are rich^^
16:55<@Bjarni>one guy was arrested for breaking in at Madonna's and putting on her night dress... now how sick is that?
16:55<@Bjarni>not to mention he knew that she was out of town
16:55<SmatZ>that is sad
16:55<@Bjarni>so the chance of seeing her in real life....
16:56<Gonozal_VIII>he didn't want to see her, he wanted to put on her night dress :-)
16:56<SmatZ>some people just need their "celebrities"
16:56<@Bjarni>looks like it
16:56<SmatZ>like many people just love our president... (and I am sorry for him)
16:56<@Bjarni>well... the guards were still there. The question is how he even got into the house
16:57<@Bjarni>people love your president?
16:57<@Bjarni>here people hate him... at least according to the medias
16:57<SmatZ>many people love him... many hate him
16:57<@Bjarni>but then again the medias can write about how the medias favour the red politicians
16:57<SmatZ>he is a kind of celebrity, too :-x
16:58<Gonozal_VIII>but i'm sure he's not hot...
16:58<@Bjarni>and we actually have a government that has financially sane politics
16:58<Gonozal_VIII>we don'T
16:58<@Bjarni> <--- you can judge that yourself
16:58<BiA|pavel-css>good night
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17:01<jjr>anybody here?
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17:03<Wolf01>LeviathNL stages 3 and 4, now the terrain should be finished :D
17:04<jjr>How good is the AI in latest OTTD beta? While ago, in 1.5.2 i think, there was only new AI for road transport...
17:04<LeviathNL>not any better
17:06<@Bjarni>nobody worked on the AI
17:06<jjr>And is anyone working on it?
17:06<Wolf01>if in 1.5.2 there will be only a new AI... ;)
17:06<@Bjarni>no :)
17:06<@Bjarni>will we ever reach 1.5.2?
17:06<@Bjarni>I mean in our lifetime
17:07<Rubidium>why our lifetime?
17:07<Wolf01>yes why not? in 2 years we passed from 0.3 to 0.6
17:07<jjr>i meant 0.5.3, of course :D
17:07<@Bjarni>more than 2 years passed
17:07<Rubidium>I think it has to do with the lifetime of the TTD creators ;
17:07<Rubidium>and something with 70 years
17:07<@Bjarni>the users are so demanding that we will not get old
17:07<Wolf01>we might release ottd with only brickland scenario ;)
17:08<Rubidium>Wolf01: would still be 'tainted'
17:09<jjr>Devs don't have enough expertise for the AI, huh?
17:09<jjr>Ne meither, OC..
17:10<Digitalfox>jjr you must be talking about branch NoAI
17:10<Wolf01>devs don't have enough will for the ai :P
17:10<Rubidium>s/will/interest/ ?
17:10<Digitalfox>and that jjr is not in beta
17:11<jjr>DigitalFox I do'nt know, I'm jus an ordinary player...
17:11<LeviathNL>Wolf01, what are you planning on drawing next?
17:11<Wolf01>LeviathNL, now i'm starting to work on rough land
17:12<Wolf01>i was writing the answer at the same time you asked :P
17:12<jjr>Wolf01 another attemt at Brickland? ;)
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17:12<Digitalfox>jjr, i'll explain.. The new AI some people have talked about, with a new road AI ( the others are still in deveopment ), is a branch of the main openttd code, called NoAI so if you download 0.5.3 or 0.6.0beta 1or 2 it doesn't have A New AI like you're thinking, the AI is still the same of 0.5.3
17:13<Rubidium>Digitalfox: NewAI != any AIs in NoAI
17:13<Rubidium>NewAI is in 0.5.x (and 0.4.x for that matter)
17:13<Rubidium>it will also be in 0.6.x
17:13<Digitalfox>yeah Rubidium i miss explanied
17:14<Rubidium>NoAI will, on the other hand, not be in 0.6.x
17:14<Digitalfox>but you know what i was trying to explain ;)
17:14<Rubidium>I do, but others probably don't
17:14<LeviathNL>Wolf01, stage 4 finished
17:15<Rubidium>especially when you say that NewAI is not in 0.5.x, when it actually is
17:15<Digitalfox>well Rubidium i was refering the new AI has NoAI code..
17:16<Rubidium>... but NoAI doesn't contain a new AI
17:17<jjr>DigitalFox I don't undertand... What was added to the new AI in 0.5.3?
17:17<Digitalfox>So let me explain better to jjr. The new AI some people have talked about, with a new road AI ( the others are still in deveopment ), is a branch of the main openttd code, called NoAI so if you download 0.5.3 or 0.6.0 beta 1or 2 it doesn't have the new code from this branch, you will be using the same AI of 0.5.3..
17:17<Digitalfox>Better? :)
17:18<Digitalfox>Maybe not i give up.... :\
17:18<LeviathNL>Wolf01, shall i post a tar when finished?
17:18<Digitalfox>Rubidium to rescue ;)
17:19<Rubidium>why me?
17:19<Rubidium>you created the mess ;)
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17:19<@Bjarni>jjr: what Digitalfox is trying to say is that some people tried to make a better AI but it's not working and not included in any releases and work on it has stalled
17:19<@Bjarni>jjr: did you get it this time?
17:19<Digitalfox>you have more expertize in explaining stuuf from openttd to users :)
17:19<@Bjarni>practice makes expert
17:20<jjr>I see... so I am still left with the original crappy AI and not experienced enough to play MP :( Pity...
17:20<jjr>Bjarni, I got it prom the repost of DF, thanks for effort..
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have to be very experienced to play multiplayer, you'll learn fast there
17:20<Rubidium>why aren't you experienced enough to play MP?
17:21<jjr>Maybe I am, but still lerning the basics...
17:21<@Bjarni>jjr: start by playing a game in single player... if you aren't bankrupt after 20 years then you can play in MP
17:22<jjr>Bjarni sure?
17:22<@Bjarni>it's not like everybody are experts
17:22<jjr>On hard I guess ?
17:22<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have to play against the others, you can cooperate with them and they will give you tipps
17:22<@Bjarni>that too
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17:23<jjr>Gonozal_VIII sound interesting
17:23[~]LeviathNL should be done now :)
17:25<jjr>What are MP games like? are complex rail networks common or is it possile to go with simpler ones?
17:25<Gonozal_VIII>you can spectate some to see what they do
17:26<jjr>I'm jus an advanced beginner, you know...
17:26<Prof_Frink>But, for gods sake, don't go to openttdcoop.
17:26<jjr>Gonozal you mean watch others play?
17:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11616 /trunk/src/core/ (bitmath_func.cpp bitmath_func.hpp): -Fix [FS#1526]: sometimes large values could go off the chart.
17:27<jjr>Are there recordings? I'm quite busy most of time.
17:28<Gonozal_VIII>no... but there are servers running all the time
17:28<jjr>OK, that should be fine...
17:28<Gonozal_VIII>just join one as a spectator and look what they built there
17:29<jjr>Sure, thals a lot
17:29<Rubidium> <- some 'video', but only of building a station
17:29<Rubidium>not of building a real network
17:30<Prof_Frink>jjr: But as I said, openttdcoop is a horrific example of play
17:31<jjr>sory for tha typos, English is not my mother tongue... plus it's 11:30 PM in my timezone :)
17:31<jjr>openttdcoop games is cooperative?
17:31<Digitalfox>The video looks very nice in full screen :)
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't like that station...
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17:33<Gonozal_VIII>takes up way too much space for the entry/exit part
17:33<Osai>Gonozal_VIII: its not bigger compared to RoRo stations
17:33<Rubidium>the idea is that the extra space makes the station more efficient than the straight-forward version
17:35<Osai>Rubidium: do you have some time for a short talk?
17:35<Gonozal_VIII>but there are long two way tracks... they are blocked while a train exits
17:35<jjr>I see... jus from what version are hose briges possible?
17:35<jjr>* bridges
17:35<Gonozal_VIII>nightlies or beta
17:35<Osai>nightly or beta 0.6
17:35<Rubidium>Osai: depends on what you call short
17:35<Osai>maybe 5 minutes
17:36<Rubidium>ah well, go ahead... if I don't react anymore, then I'm sleeping ;)
17:37<jjr>ok... I thought so. in 0.5 it was impossible to build over slanted track and sigs
17:37<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's a very big improvement
17:38<Osai>Gonozal_VIII: size always changes with the throughput of a station
17:38<Osai>you don't need a setup like this for 5 trains
17:39<Osai>but imagine 50
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>an exiting train blocks the entry for a long time so it will be worse with more trains :-)
17:41<jjr>Whew, in that case, I need serious self-control over holidays... You know, 5 years aho I spent even 10 hrs straight whe i had time
17:41<Gonozal_VIII>simplest and fastest way for a terminus is 2 platforms, an one way entry signal, 2 2way exits at the platforms and a one way normal signal for the outbound...
17:43<jjr>Gonozal that's the most basic one, isn't it?
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>and the fastest in my experience because it has the shortest two way tracks
17:44<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: only in your 'system' one train can enter/leave the two tracks, in the one of ottdcoop one can enter and another one can leave
17:44<Rubidium>which means the throughput has been doubled
17:44<jjr>Sure, but those are suitable for low traffic, no?
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>it also has double the platforms :-) just use two of the basics
17:45<Rubidium>Gonozal_VIII: with two of the basics you still have problems with crossing trains
17:46<jjr>Alhough, i don' know whatreally high traafic looks like :)
17:46<Rubidium>and in this case one train can have entered 90%, another 10%, another one can have left for 10% and the last one can be left for 90%
17:47<Rubidium>so you still have double the throughput as two simple terminii
17:48<Rubidium>effectively this 4 platform station is as effective (for entering/leaving) as a 8 platform station made of simple terminii blocks
17:48<LeviathNL>Wolf01, did you finish the paved roads?
17:49<Wolf01>no, i did only that preview
17:49<Gonozal_VIII>hmmmm that has to be tested
17:49<Osai>Gonozol, the longer leaving track is 3 tiles instead of 1, 2 tiles longer than for a normal RoRo
17:49<Osai>Gonozal_VIII ^^
17:50[~]LeviathNL wants permission to peek around in Wolf01s /OTTD_related/lego/ directory :)
17:51<Osai>jjr: high traffic game with this setup:
17:51<Rubidium>permission granted ;)
17:51<Wolf01>there are only some screenshots, the brickland files and my old patches
17:51<Rubidium>but you'll get a file not found ;)
17:51<LeviathNL>server says no
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17:53<jjr>Osai OK, when I get time I'll look. got lot of work and some assignmets to finish :)
17:53<Osai>it was just a hint :)
17:53<Osai>not a must
17:54<jjr>sure, but to get a picture...
17:56<Osai>yup :)
17:57<jjr>Oh, my OTTD crashed when loading the save :( any ideas why?
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17:57<SmatZ>jjr: do you have required newgrfs ?
17:57<Rubidium>you're using a 0.5.x OTTD and tried to load a savegame that is made with a much later version of OpenTTD
18:00<jjr>that newgrfs are likely... that 0.6 beta doesn't have it bundled.
18:01<Wolf01>wooot what a surprise... a moment before the forum was grassy, a moment after the forum is snowy
18:03<jjr>how do I find out wha newgrfs I need?
18:03<SmatZ>jjr: for that openttdcoop savegame
18:04<SmatZ>jjr: but the game will say you which newgrf it needs... I don't know how it works in Windows though...
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18:08<Gonozal_VIII>can't convert railtype here, owned by little nandon
18:08<Gonozal_VIII>that's a town...
18:08<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII: well, that needs better error messages
18:08<SmatZ>but it means there is nothing to convert
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>yes had the same type selected
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>but owned by makes no sense
18:09<SmatZ>I was considering improving that, but haven't done it yet
18:09<Gonozal_VIII>ah ok
18:10<SmatZ>mmmmm why member function pointers cannot be retyped to void*
18:11<SmatZ>that C++ makes me more and more sad
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18:11<SmatZ>good night Wolfensteijn
18:11<SmatZ>errr :-x
18:11<SmatZ>!seen Wolfensteijn
18:11<SmatZ>@seen Wolfensteijn
18:11<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen Wolfensteijn.
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18:13<Gonozal_VIII>hmm the trains don't choose free platforms now with that setup
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>ah... false alarm had the orders wrong
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18:19<Gonozal_VIII>huge profit with a large ammount of test trains that drive around almost empty between two small towns...
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20:00|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
20:02<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes
20:02<Eddi|zuHause3><Prof_Frink> *Never* type "kaffeine *" in your futurama directory <- i would try it, but for some weird reason, i don't have one
20:02<SmatZ>why are you people so unhappy tonight?
20:03<Digitalfox>Hey guys what ever happen to Chris Sawyer after locomotion? There is no single news about him since 2004 in the release of locomotion...
20:03<Gonozal_VIII>because painting the steps of inserting something into a b*-tree sucks?
20:04<Digitalfox>Did he just quit because of poor locomotion sales?? :\
20:05<Eddi|zuHause3><Gonozal_VIII> because painting the steps of inserting something into a b*-tree sucks? <- what's the problem, just pipe everything into "dot -Tpng"
20:06<Gonozal_VIII>into waah?
20:07<Eddi|zuHause3>echo 'digraph G { A -> B -> C }' | dot -Tpng > picture.png
20:14<Gonozal_VIII>weeeell... looks complicated
20:15<Eddi|zuHause3>it's totally easy
20:16<Gonozal_VIII>lots of programs...
20:16<Eddi|zuHause3>for trees, dot is totally enough
20:16<Eddi|zuHause3>and the structure of a .dot file is trivial
20:17<Eddi|zuHause3>you can make undirected edges with -- and directed edges with ->
20:17<Sacro> <- THIS IS FTW
20:17<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm i need a b*tree...
20:18<Eddi|zuHause3>so what?
20:18<Gonozal_VIII>with empty squares and such
20:18<ln->good morning, channel!
20:18<Eddi|zuHause3>empty_node [label="", shape=square]
20:19<Eddi|zuHause3>the point is, you can create .dot files from your program that inserts nodes into the tree
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>i don't have a program that inserts nodes into the tree
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>i don't have a tree at all...
20:20<Eddi|zuHause3>make one?
20:20<Gonozal_VIII>i have an assignment where i have to paint that stuff
20:21<Eddi|zuHause3>the point is, making a 5 line program is not more effort than making 10 paintings
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't know how to make a b*tree program :S
20:22<Eddi|zuHause3>choosing the right language is kinda important ;)
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>well i know how... but that's a lot more than 5 lines and would take long...
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>very long..
20:23<Gonozal_VIII>and the only language i know is java
20:23<Eddi|zuHause3>what is the problem? a tree is just a graph, you have a list of nodes, and for each node you have a list of adjacent nodes
20:23<Eddi|zuHause3>{1:[2,3], 2:[4,5,6], 3:[7,8,9]}
20:24<Eddi|zuHause3>tree with 9 nodes and 3 levels
20:24<Eddi|zuHause3>1 line
20:25<Eddi|zuHause3>inserting is just putting the new item somewhere, and then shuffle everything around for rebalancing
20:26<Gonozal_VIII>yes, it's the shuffle everything around part that bothers me
20:26<Eddi|zuHause3>in order to paint it, you must have the rules written somewhere
20:28<Eddi|zuHause3>if you have rules written somewhere in n lines, you can program it in O(n) number of lines
20:29<Eddi|zuHause3>and i am pretty sure inserting in trees is not written in a 300 page document ;)
20:29<Sacro>gah, DAMNIT
20:29<Sacro>what kind of idiot wrote the Ada compiler in Ada
20:29[~]Sacro is stuck in a recursive infinate loop
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20:33<fjb>It's usual to write a complier in it's own language.
20:34<Sacro>fjb: no, most are written in C
20:35<Gonozal_VIII>i've heard in a lecture that it took the ada compiler days to compile itself
20:35<fjb>I don't think so. And why should you stay with something like C when you can write the compiler in a better language? Most compilers I know are written in their own language.
20:36<Sacro>fjb: how can i compile an ada compiler
20:36<fjb>Get another ADA compiler. :-)
20:36<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: what was there first, the hen or the egg?
20:36<fjb>Which compiler are you talking about?
20:36<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, the first compilers were written in machine language
20:37<Sacro>trying to compile gnat
20:37<Eddi|zuHause2>and even anywayer, usually you write an interpreter first
20:37<Eddi|zuHause2>and you can then run the compiler in the interpreter
20:37|-|Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:39<fjb>Hm, gnat 2005 or 2006?
20:39<Sacro>what is "Frais de port"?
20:40<Sacro>fjb: either
20:40<Sacro>instructions tell me to download gnat-gcc-4.1.1-FC6.i386.rpm
20:40<Sacro>and then add that to $PATH
20:40<Sacro>but then it loses the ability to build C/C++ files
20:41|-|Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:41<Eddi|zuHause2><Sacro> what is "Frais de port"? <- some milk product?
20:42<Sacro>where are all the french people
20:42<fjb>Hm, you should only need gcc to compile gnat.
20:42<Sacro>fjb: yes
20:43<Sacro>but i am using --enable-languages=ada,c,c++,objc
20:43<Sacro>but i don't have an existing compiler that supports ada and C
20:43<fjb>Only C or even no C?
20:44|-|helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:44<ln->Is dit de voedselreplicator?
20:44<Sacro>fjb: i have 2 compilers
20:45<Sacro>1 that just does ada
20:45<Sacro>and one that does everything else
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20:46<ln->Het ligt hoog. Cardassiaanse stijl.
20:48<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: didn't you say next week?
20:48<ln->it is next week.
20:57<fjb>Sacro: On FreeBSD you use to install gnat. :-)
20:57<Sacro>fjb: i'm not running FreeBSD
20:57<Sacro>but thanks :p
20:59|-|DaleStan_ changed nick to DaleStan
20:59<fjb>In about 10 Minutes I will know what the contents of that archive is.
20:59<fjb>And it's your own fault if you are not using FreeBSD. :-)
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21:06<+glx>[02:40:08] <Sacro> what is "Frais de port"? <-- shipping
21:07<Sacro>glx: merci
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21:13<fjb>Sacro: It contains a precompiled Ada compiler. :-)
21:13<Sacro>fjb: arch doesn't have a precompiled one yet
21:13|-|SmatZ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:15<fjb>Sorry, I don't have a cross compiler. And Linux is not able to run BSD binaries.
21:17|-|Osai^zZz [] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz]
21:21<ln->the holographic doctor of Voyager can speak german..?
21:22<Gonozal_VIII>why not? daniel jackson can also speak something like german
21:22<fjb>At least he visited germany and liked the country.
21:23<ln->i think i once saw an interview on german tv where the actor spoke german. (not dubbed)
21:23<Gonozal_VIII>ah you mean the actor not the role
21:24<Sacro> looks promising
21:24[~]ln- believes the actor is a hologram
21:24<fjb>Bruce Willis was born in Germany. :-)
21:25[~]Sacro belives ln- is a hologram
21:25<ln->"Er spricht recht gut Deutsch, ..."
21:26<Sacro>you speak real good german!
21:29<Sacro>no, right good
21:33<Eddi|zuHause2>"he speaks"
21:34<Eddi|zuHause2>and "recht gut" is best translated by "quite good"
21:34<Eddi|zuHause2>or "quite well", depending on position
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21:46<ln->Modificeer de deflectiegenerator zó dat er een laag energieveld onstaat.
21:51<Sacro>:D i think i have gcc with added ada building
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22:24<Gekz>where's that Chris dude
22:28<@Belugas>!seen Chris dude
22:28<@Belugas>@seen Chris dude
22:28<@DorpsGek>Belugas: seen [<channel>] <nick>
22:28<Gekz>the Chris guy that makes ChrisIN
22:29<@Belugas>like... not there
22:29<Gekz>wow, really/.
22:29<@Belugas>i wonder if ever ever came by anyway...
22:29<Gekz>you are making less sense now lol
22:29<Gekz>@seen Chris
22:29<@DorpsGek>Gekz: I have not seen Chris.
22:30<Gekz>@seen ChrisH
22:30<@DorpsGek>Gekz: ChrisH was last seen in #openttd 14 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 52 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <ChrisH> ahh. grfcodec was the prog... i just didn't remember its name. thx
22:30<Gekz>that's worrying
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22:31<@Belugas>that you know.
22:32<@Belugas>Now you know
22:32<@Belugas>laaaa. better :)
22:33<@Belugas>so, if you had to talk to him, you'be be better of with a PM on forums
22:33<Gekz>but I'm lazy
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22:36<@Belugas>too bad for you
22:37<@Belugas>so up on your ass and type him a lovely pm!
22:37<@Belugas>'casue if you wait for him to come by, you will be much older
22:39<fjb>Good night.
22:39|-|fjb [] has quit [Quit: Realworld is calling.]
22:40<Gekz>I dont fear age
22:41<Sacro>"patch: command not found"
22:41<Gekz>owned lol
22:41<Sacro>pacman -S core-devel
22:41<Sacro>how strange :\
22:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11617 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Feature(ette): Add the same game-mode keyboard shortcuts in scenario more.(Bilbo)
22:42<Gekz>Sacro: pacman -S patch
22:45<@Belugas>[22:46] <Gekz> I dont fear age <-- such an arrogant and ignorant thing to say... Obviously, a young fool.
22:46<Gekz>or, I'm just young and have nothing to fear :P
22:47<+glx>hmm IIRC it is chris82
22:47<@Belugas>wrong. you are young, for sure. you do not know fear. not the same as not knowing what to fear.
22:47<@Belugas>@seen chris82
22:47<@DorpsGek>Belugas: chris82 was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Chris82> -was
22:48<@Belugas>either way :) not often around ;)
22:48<+glx>@seen chrisIN
22:48<@DorpsGek>glx: chrisIN was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 33 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <ChrisIN> and I thought why why why? it's in the middle of the city
22:48<+glx>and he used this nick too
22:49<Gekz>this is why peopel should use only one nick
22:49<Gekz>so it's easy to stalk them
22:49<+glx>@seen chrissicom
22:49<@DorpsGek>glx: chrissicom was last seen in #openttd 32 weeks, 0 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Chrissicom> good evening :)
22:50<+glx>lol he used this one too
22:50<@Belugas>he must have forgotten his passwords and started a new nick/session :)
22:50<+glx>or he didn't registered at ll
22:51<+glx>anyway it's late so /me -> bed
22:52|-|glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:54<@Belugas>pffff.... i give up debugging for tonigh
22:54<@Belugas>good night, going to bed me too
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 11 00:00:52 2007