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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-19

---Logopened Wed Dec 19 00:00:48 2007
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02:44<markmc>G'mornin
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03:24<dihedral>morning
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03:56<dihedral>you guys are aware of the fact that the chat window does not state if the chat is going to [All] or [Team] or [Private]
03:56<dihedral>?
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05:10<Rubidium>dihedral: use a newer version
05:10<dihedral>fixed after 0.6.0-beta2?
05:13<Rubidium>should be
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05:14<dihedral>i'll give that a try
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06:15<dihedral>@seen skidd13
06:15<@DorpsGek>dihedral: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 47 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <skidd13> Hi folks
06:15<pavel1269>hi
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06:19<dihedral>hello
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06:43<SmatZ>hello
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07:00<Gonozal_VIII>ahoi
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07:12<roboboy>hello
07:12<roboboy>is there a way I can turn wagon speed limits off in a current mp game?
07:12<roboboy>I am the server admin
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>roboboy: wagon speed limit should not be changed during a game
07:14<roboboy>ok
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>it is a sure way to desync
07:14<roboboy>but can it be turned off in SP and reloaded
07:14<roboboy>its a coop game
07:14<dihedral>why do you want to turn it off?
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>can still have nasty sideeffects, especially if newgrfs are involved
07:15<roboboy>we are not playing for realism
07:15<roboboy>ok
07:15<Eddi|zuHause2>e.g. the dbsetxl loads different wagon sets depending on wagonspeedlimit setting
07:15<roboboy>I dont think the UKRS does
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, i would not recommend it
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>you can try...
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07:22<roboboy>ok
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11:19<Digitalfox>So much silence :(
11:20[~]Gonozal_VIII stares at the silence
11:20<Hendikins>Silence is golden, but my eyes still see...
11:20<Digitalfox>yeah
11:21<Gonozal_VIII>the silence stares back!
11:21<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a lie, silence is green
11:21<Eddi|zuHause2>silence green is people (err...)
11:22<Digitalfox>It's almost Christmas... Still don't know what present to give to my girlfriend :(
11:22<Eddi|zuHause2>flowers and jewelry
11:22<Digitalfox>Why is that women presents are hard to choice?
11:22<Eddi|zuHause2>it's trivially easy
11:23<Digitalfox>that was what i give her last Christmas
11:23<Digitalfox>I'm out of ideas
11:23<Eddi|zuHause2>so what? more flowers, more expensive jewelry
11:24<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause2: But but but... Yeahi guess you're right ...
11:24<Gonozal_VIII>they never have enough green or shiny stuff
11:24<Eddi|zuHause2>try to not make the growth exponential ;)
11:24<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
11:24<Digitalfox>lol
11:25<Digitalfox>I know I'll give her a new laptop :) Oh wait i won't than she will have more reasons to be online in MSN and talking to me :(
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11:26<+glx>lol
11:26<Gonozal_VIII>give her a laptop that can't do anything else
11:27<Digitalfox>There is a laptop that doesn't support MSN?? Oh you mean using Linux right?
11:27<Digitalfox>Not a bad idea
11:28<+glx>linux has msn (amsn)
11:28<Gonozal_VIII>ah you mean it's a bad thing when she talks to you over msn?
11:28<Gonozal_VIII>gaim
11:28<Eddi|zuHause2>then you are surely going to not spend another christmas with her :p
11:28<Digitalfox>damn, you killed my present glx
11:29<SmatZ>don't give her anything and break with her instead :-p
11:29<Eddi|zuHause2>(but for all i know, that could be your intention)
11:29<Digitalfox>Gonozal_VIII: Well she is very controller, she wants to know every step i give.. :(
11:30<+glx>are you sure she's not here?
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11:30<Gonozal_VIII>... i know that kind
11:30<Digitalfox>Let's say i can't say I'm ugly, so when we go out there's always other girls messing with me and she explodes every time with a discussion
11:31<Digitalfox>Also she is a PR so i go to a lot of presentations and partys, and there's always many women alone o-O
11:31<Digitalfox>o_O
11:32<Gonozal_VIII>a relationship can't work without trust
11:32<Digitalfox>I know, i tell her that every week :(
11:32<Eddi|zuHause2>if a man stops looking at a beautiful woman passing by, he is dead
11:33|-|Progman [~progman@p57A1D017.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:33<Eddi|zuHause2>(that's a quote i heard on the radio a few weeks ago about relationship between men and women)
11:33<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause2: Absolutely right.. But she tells me " You want me to start looking to other men ? "
11:33|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host228-237-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
11:33<Eddi|zuHause2>(it was even said by a woman)
11:33<Gonozal_VIII>they do that anyways
11:34<Wolf01>hello
11:34<Gonozal_VIII>hi
11:34<Digitalfox>hello Wolf
11:35<Eddi|zuHause2>Digitalfox: you answer: Who do you think about while we are [...]
11:36<Digitalfox>My question is why do women always think that if we look to a beautiful women, that means she ( Wife or girlfriend ) is not so pretty?? My girlfriend is beautiful but still I'm always looking to other beautiful women, i can't stop that o_O
11:37<Digitalfox>It's like it's in my blood
11:37<Gonozal_VIII>everybody does that, even the women
11:37<Digitalfox>And i explain that to her, but she always says " You want me to start looking to other men ? "
11:37<Digitalfox>But i'll try to say what Eddi|zuHause2 told
11:37<Eddi|zuHause2>that radio show was about a book that has been published "men ask, women answer", and the matching reverse book
11:38<Eddi|zuHause2>it was about exactly those kind of discussions
11:38<Gonozal_VIII>it's tricky when women ask something...
11:38<Eddi|zuHause2>men have to look after _every_ beatiful women passing by
11:39<Gonozal_VIII>always think around 10 corners before you answer
11:39<Eddi|zuHause2>women have to think about other men in bed
11:39<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause2: "women have to think about other men in bed" I surely hope it's not my case, it would be bad for my ego lol
11:39<Eddi|zuHause2>it also contained other typical questions, like "why do women never go alone to the toilet"
11:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Digitalfox: yeah, same way as it is bad for her ego that you look after other women
11:40<Eddi|zuHause2>you have to consider that, before answering ;)
11:41<Digitalfox>no no no, there's no problem if she looks to another men, i do the same with another women.. What can't happen is having thought about what we are looking at..
11:41<Digitalfox>*thoughts
11:41<Digitalfox>Well she can't, but i well...
11:42<Eddi|zuHause2>well, the problem is, that is not the issue
11:43<Digitalfox>Anyway, my biggest problem is she doesn't accept i can find other women beautiful, it's like i'm cheating on her..
11:44<Digitalfox>So after 2 years of relationship we still discuss a lot about it
11:45<Digitalfox>I'll tell you this, if we were to broke up, i'll would be 1 year of peace and quiet without any other girlfriend, just a *special women friendship*
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11:50<Sacro>hmm
11:51<Digitalfox>Want to tells us your experience with women Sacro?
11:52<Sacro>oh you don't want to know
11:52<Digitalfox>It's that bad?
11:53<Eddi|zuHause2>one girl he was with got committed into a mental hospital a week later ;)
11:53<Digitalfox>oh yeah i remember some months ago that conversation
11:53<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: that was after she stole £220 out my account and then tried to commit suicide
11:54<Digitalfox>damn Sacro that's bad luck..
11:54<Digitalfox>And since then no new women in your life?
11:55<Eddi|zuHause2>that was several years ago, i do hope he had some :p
11:56<Sacro>nope
11:56<Digitalfox>He's not replying so maybe not..
11:56<Sacro>my first girlfriend dumped me over 7 years ago
11:56<Sacro>she just got engaged#
11:57<Digitalfox>She was 7 years alone?
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11:57<Eddi|zuHause2>she was 7 back then :p
11:57<Sacro>errr... no
11:57<Gonozal_VIII>makes sense
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11:58<Digitalfox>lol
11:59<Digitalfox>What a big laugh i just had :)
12:00<Sacro>right, leving work now
12:00<Sacro>back later
12:01<Hendikins>I left work 2 hours early because my duty manager was a prick
12:04<Hendikins>I signed off duty "unwell", in order to leave him unable to do anything about it.
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12:54<fjb>Moin
12:55<Prof_Frink>'ning
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12:58<Eddi|zuHause2>...gitis
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13:52<Draakon>hi guys
13:53<SmatZ>hi Draakon
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13:55<Draakon>is it possibile to use BuildOTTD somehow compile a patched trunk without using patch file?
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13:56<Rubidium>Draakon: yes and no
13:56<+glx>not directly as buildottd always use a clean trunk and a patch
13:56<Rubidium>you can't use BuildOTTD, but you can use the compiler and stuff that gets delivered with BuildOTTD
13:56<+glx>but with buildottd you have all needed tools to do it without buildottd :)
13:57<Draakon>k
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>bah, that other guy on my router has been downloading at full speed for two days now... irc, msn and icq keep disconnecting
14:00<Rubidium>slap him or your provider
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14:01<Draakon>you own the router? disconnect him
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>50gb traffic...
14:01<+glx>learn him to limit bandwidth usage
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>i'll try blocking port 1-65534
14:01<+glx>mainly uploading
14:02<Draakon>hmm wiki contains info for Msys commands?
14:03<Draakon>oh i got mingw instead :P
14:04<Draakon>but still can i use BuildOTTD mingw to stat compiling right away or i must do those configure stuffs first?
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>hmm upload... yes i noticed that everything stops working when there's too much upload
14:05<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: We went over this yesterday
14:06<Draakon>hello?
14:07<kyevan>Intercontinental airports need more helipads >_>
14:07<Draakon>wait till NewGRF_Ports get done
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14:07<Draakon>then you can add them by GRFS
14:07<Draakon>or modifi old airports
14:08<Draakon>or is it done already?
14:11<Draakon>C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/trunk/src/copy_paste.cpp: In function `void CopyArea(TileIndex, TileIndex, bool, bool, bool)':
14:11<Draakon>C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/trunk/src/copy_paste.cpp:845: error: `GetTunnelTransportType' undeclared (first use this function)
14:11<Draakon>C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/trunk/src/copy_paste.cpp:845: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.)
14:11<Draakon>C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/trunk/src/copy_paste.cpp:849: error: `GetTunnelDirection' undeclared (first use this function)
14:11<Draakon>C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/trunk/src/copy_paste.cpp:943: error: `GetBridgeTransportType' undeclared (first use this function)
14:11<Draakon>C:/BuildOTTD/msys/home/trunk/src/copy_paste.cpp:948: error: `GetBridgeRampDirection' undeclared (first use this function)
14:11<Draakon>make[1]: *** [copy_paste.o] Error 1
14:11<Draakon>make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/trunk/objs/release'
14:11<Draakon>make: *** [all] Error 2
14:11<Draakon>why do i have this error?
14:11<hylje>forgot to import a .h
14:12<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: next time, paste.openttd.org for anything over 2 lines
14:12<Rubidium>Draakon: because the patch is outdated?
14:12<SmatZ>Draakon: paste.openttd.org is your friend
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14:12<Draakon>dint know that
14:12<Draakon>Rubidium: erm i dont think so
14:12<dihedral>hey ho
14:12<Rubidium>Draakon: why?
14:12<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: most likely, your copy_paste patch is outdated
14:13<Draakon>lemme get the revisions first k?
14:13<SmatZ>Draakon: it is, GetTunnelTransportType has been removed like 5 days ago
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14:13<Draakon>copy_paste_rev11642 and Trunk rev 11666
14:14<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: always get the exact same revision as the patch sais
14:14<Rubidium>Draakon: as I said... the patch is outdated
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14:14<Draakon>hmm k will try another compiling then
14:14<Eddi|zuHause2>a lot can happen in 24 revisions
14:15<Draakon>i will try rev 11642
14:15<Eddi|zuHause2>who was the developer of copy/paste? Frostregen?
14:15<dihedral>yep
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14:16<Draakon>i just like Copy%paste :P
14:17<Draakon>it saves me building some already done junctions in SP
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14:17<Draakon>btw is it client side only?
14:17<dihedral>just dont use it in openttdcoop :-)
14:17<dihedral>Draakon: kinda
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14:18<Draakon>what you mean by that?
14:18<dihedral>as much as clients need to worry about it - yes
14:19<Draakon>i hope this time compiling is a succsess
14:20<dihedral>that is something one mostly finds out at the end :-D
14:21<Draakon>:S dam files locked, good thing i have Unlocker Ö:p
14:21<Draakon>:P*
14:24<dihedral>are you german?
14:24<dihedral>no
14:24<dihedral>nvm
14:24<Gonozal_VIII>don't insult random people
14:24<Gonozal_VIII>:P
14:24<dihedral>LOL
14:25<dihedral>Draakon: Gonozal_VIII called you random :-P
14:25<Draakon>lol
14:25<Draakon>who cares anyway?
14:25<dihedral>nobody
14:25<dihedral>but dont be depressed by that :-P
14:26<Draakon>did i say i am?
14:27<Draakon>what happens if i terminate a compiler while it is in the middle of compiling
14:27<Draakon>?
14:28<pavel1269>nothing
14:28<pavel1269>:)
14:28<pavel1269>or ... never happend to me anything
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14:35<Barry>Goodevening
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14:35<Barry>I'm looking for a site where I can download scenarios. Does anybody know a good site for that?
14:36<Rubidium>the forum?
14:36<Rubidium>not very easy to find them, but that's the place with the most scenarios
14:37<Gonozal_VIII>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Player_Made_Scenarios
14:37<Barry>I checked the forum but I only find some articles but no scenarios
14:38<Gonozal_VIII>then you didn't look good enough
14:38<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
14:38<Gonozal_VIII>that was kind of wrong english?
14:38<Gonozal_VIII>maybe...
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14:39<Gonozal_VIII>btw my connection is all better now :-)
14:39<Barry>I search on the keywords scenario and download
14:40<Barry>thx for the link
14:40<ln->http://ircimg.org/img/15762.gif
14:41<hylje>:p
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14:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11667 /trunk/src/ (67 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split window.h into a header that defines some 'global' window related types, on that defined 'global' window functions and one that defines functions and types only used by *_gui.cpps.
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14:56<TheBlasphemer>What to do if I've got a game running on my dedicated server that's throwing everyone out of the game with desync errors after approximately 30 secs of playing ?
14:56<TheBlasphemer>Should I report it to someone? send the savegame to someone ?
14:57<Rubidium>what version?
14:57<TheBlasphemer>0.6.0 beta2
14:57<Rubidium>how do you get into the state that it desyncs from a 'cold' start?
14:58<TheBlasphemer>load the savegame :P?
14:59<TheBlasphemer>Don't suppose there's a way to have a kind of stack-trace-log for each random-number call to compare, is there ;)?
14:59<Rubidium>there is
14:59<TheBlasphemer>ooooooh, do tell me :)
14:59<TheBlasphemer>I would love to get my hands dirty (6)
14:59<TheBlasphemer>err
14:59<TheBlasphemer>>:]
15:00<Rubidium>for 'trunk' it is ./enable-desync-debug=2 (but that wasn't in 0.6.0-beta2)
15:00<Rubidium>for 0.6.0-beta2: src/core/random_func.hpp:18
15:01<TheBlasphemer>So gotta recompile :P?
15:01<TheBlasphemer>bugger ;)
15:01<Rubidium>yes
15:02<TheBlasphemer>You want to have a look too :)? (You'd probably be faster :/)
15:02<Rubidium>because it kinda slows down the game quite a lot when you make it runtime configurable
15:02<TheBlasphemer>depends how you do it, I suppose :P
15:02<Rubidium>I'm most likely not faster at this moment
15:02<TheBlasphemer>k, will give it a shot :)
15:03<Rubidium>but you can reproduce it easily by loading a savegame?
15:03<TheBlasphemer>Let me just do another cold boot and try for you :)
15:05<TheBlasphemer>:/
15:05<TheBlasphemer>I've done this several times, and all times it desynched almost instantly, and this one time I am about to actually go and find where that bug is, it refuses :S
15:06<pavel1269>:)
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15:08<+glx>TheBlasphemer: we hate that too
15:09[~]Rubidium slaps Heisenberg
15:10<TheBlasphemer>How much of an extra load would it be on my server if I recompiled with the stack-trace option just in case it happens again?
15:10<+glx>it autosaves each month
15:10<Rubidium>glx: wrong...
15:11<Rubidium>it will dump each random number
15:11<Rubidium>and it will only be usefull if the first client desyncs
15:11<Rubidium>and it will generate a hell of a lot of log to the console
15:11<Rubidium>1 MB-ish per second
15:11<TheBlasphemer>hmmmz :P
15:12<TheBlasphemer>ok, that's a bit too much :/
15:12<+glx>that's usually a big slowdown :)
15:12<TheBlasphemer>Normally I probably would've done it (it auto-pauses when no clients anyway)
15:13<TheBlasphemer>But it's mainly a webserver, and it has enough trouble doing that alone at certain times ;)
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15:23<kyevan>hmm
15:23<kyevan>Let's think
15:23<kyevan>Mingw+msys, sdl, libpng, etc... an svn client...
15:24<kyevan>anything else I'm forgetting to set up a workable windows build environment?
15:24<Rubidium>time
15:24<Prof_Frink>a linux livecd?
15:24<Rubidium>effort
15:24<Rubidium>blood
15:24<kyevan>Prof_Frink: Har har har
15:24<Rubidium>sweat
15:24<Rubidium>tears
15:24<kyevan>If I was going to build on linux, I'd just reboot and select debian at the boot screen :P
15:26<kyevan>Rubidium: I don't have much of my own blood left after fixing sid so many times... I'm getting all pasty white. Can I use pigs blood, or something?
15:26[~]Rubidium wonders what's wrong with sid
15:26<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: He breaks your toys
15:27<Rubidium>I've had one (major) problem in two and a half years of daily updates/upgrades
15:27<kyevan>Rubidium: Well, most (all) of the problems have been My Own Damn Fault.
15:28<kyevan>Though there was the one time aptitude was convinced the right course of action was to remove gcc >_>
15:28<+glx>kyevan: sdl is not needed
15:29<Prof_Frink>Woo, new kde4 packages
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15:31<Gonozal_VIII>Those who know the least will always know it the loudest. <-- just found that... true, true
15:32<TheBlasphemer><kyevan> anything else I'm forgetting to set up a workable windows build environment?
15:32<TheBlasphemer>Microsoft Visual Studio 2003/2005/2008 :)?
15:33<Rubidium>nah... that required .NET
15:33<Rubidium>requires
15:33<+glx>and it's not needed for mingw/msys
15:33<Rubidium>.NET sucks for one reason
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15:34<pavel1269>and reason is?
15:35<Rubidium>when Windows Update messes up your .NET install there is no way to properly deinstall .NET (except format)
15:35<TheBlasphemer>Rubidium: I hate .NET as much as Macintosh, but Visual Studio is great :/
15:35<TheBlasphemer>And besides, what's wrong with having the runtimes on your system :/?
15:35<Rubidium>and a messed up .NET install means Visual Studio doesn't want to do anything either
15:35<+glx>TheBlasphemer: then you don't use express versions
15:36<+glx>ie 1 IDE for each language
15:36<Prof_Frink>Yay, stable
15:36<TheBlasphemer>Ofcourse I don't use the express versions ;)
15:36<Prof_Frink>12 updates since I last could be bothered
15:36<TheBlasphemer>I won a legit copy of VS2005 with a MS contest a while ago, and I've got loads of places to get VS2008 (although I must admit those are less-legal than the former ;))
15:39[~]Rubidium has to work with VS2005 stuff and is happy he doesn't need to use it at home.
15:41<TheBlasphemer>:/
15:42<TheBlasphemer>What do you use it for at work then ?
15:42<TheBlasphemer>I could agree on the fact that all the .NET based languages, and shit like MFC are the devils' own,
15:42<Rubidium>webdevelopment stuff, SQL aggregrate functions and some stand alone applications
15:42<TheBlasphemer>but VC++ is godlike :)
15:45<Rubidium>ASP(.NET) just plainly sucks due to utter stallness
15:46<kyevan>TheBlasphemer: Well, why don't you mail me a bunch of cash so I can buy VS2008, then?
15:46<TheBlasphemer>Agreed, but ASP(.NET) is a language, the fact that ASP.NET sucks doesn't make VS2005 a crappy product ;)
15:46<kyevan>Besides, I'm actually used to the gnu toolchain. Even make, which is, ick >_>
15:46<TheBlasphemer>heh :P
15:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11668 /trunk/src/ (47 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: more refactoring aimed at reducing compile time and making it more logic where function definitions can be found.
15:46<TheBlasphemer>Hint: make friends at Microsoft
15:46<TheBlasphemer>Vista Ultimate is like 30 euros for employees :)
15:46<Rubidium>TheBlasphemer: please not...
15:47<Gonozal_VIII>bah vista
15:47<TheBlasphemer>ah bah, seems like I've dropped into a pile of microsoft hate today :P
15:47<Rubidium>"no, our products are a lot safer"
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15:47<TheBlasphemer>I'm not saying Microsoft is perfect
15:47<TheBlasphemer>far from it actually
15:47<Rubidium>just forget to mention that you "fix" more than 1 bug in a bugfix, but only mention one of those
15:48<TheBlasphemer>but VS2005 is pretty decent, and I haven't found a good alternative for it yet...
15:48<Rubidium>or fix gazillions of bugs in a service pack and not mention any of them
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15:48<TheBlasphemer>And Vista is pretty darn spiffy too, and it has some pretty good changes in the back-end too, not only in the front end....
15:48<Gonozal_VIII>the only reason i'm using windows is compatibility with almost every hardware/software... vista doesn't even have that
15:48<TheBlasphemer>Did you hear me say that MS products didn't have bugs :P? Did you ever hear me mention IE in this conversation ;)?
15:49<TheBlasphemer>Gonozal_VIII: Most software will run (more than on wine, probably), and as for hardware compatiblity: you can't blame MS for that...
15:50<TheBlasphemer>I'm not entirely satisfied with the current driver situation, with all vendors refusing to write proper ones
15:50<TheBlasphemer>But at least the driver architecture got a much needed overhaul :/
15:51<Rubidium>the linux driver subsystem gets architecture changes all the time, not once every 10-or-so-years when they decided that it is so utterly crappy that the support people can't support it anymore
15:51<Rubidium>hmm... and talking about their documentation...
15:52<TheBlasphemer>Rubidium: Can't blame MS for making backwards compatibility a high priority :/
15:52<TheBlasphemer>Rubidium: Point me to something that you think is missing in their documentation...
15:52<Rubidium>you can easily find how to secure Windows NT 4.0 in the VS2005 help, but how to write secure stuff for something more recent than 2000 is hard to find.
15:52<TheBlasphemer>I've never had any complaints about MSDN or the Platform SDK
15:53<kyevan>Rubidium: Really?
15:53<kyevan>It's easy
15:53<kyevan>Find knife
15:53<kyevan>Find ethernet to windows box in question
15:53<kyevan>Cut cable
15:53<TheBlasphemer>heh :P
15:53<Rubidium>kyevan: but that isn't in the manual, see my point?
15:53<Prof_Frink>kyevan: It's even easier than that
15:53<TheBlasphemer>Most things that apply for Windows NT 4 still apply for Windows 2000, XP, and Vista
15:54<kyevan>I suppose you COULD just unplug it
15:54<Prof_Frink>Once you realise that you have to press 'start' to stop
15:54<TheBlasphemer>Oh come on guys, cut it with the bullshit already :P
15:54<TheBlasphemer>I can perfectly understand that you don't like MS
15:54<TheBlasphemer>just don't go about bashing it like that, especially not with arguments you can't even back up...
15:55<TheBlasphemer>That makes you no better than all those MS fanboys out there bashing *nix
15:55<kyevan>TheBlasphemer: Oh, come off it.
15:55<kyevan>I'm just haveing fun :)
15:55<Rubidium>personal experience is kinda hard to back up
15:55|-|Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:55<kyevan>You'll note that the current OS I'm on is XP >_>
15:56<TheBlasphemer>Rubidium: So if my gf doesn't ever want to touch a *nix box because she thinks the command line is eery is a valid argument to say that Linux is crap ?
15:56<Rubidium>no, because she has no experience with it
15:56<Gonozal_VIII>i'm using xp... tried vista and half of my stuff stopped working... yay vista?
15:56<TheBlasphemer>She has, she's been developing web apps on *nix for quite some time now...
15:56<+glx>and now you can do a lot without using command line in linux
15:56<Rubidium>and experience is not two minutes, it's a few months of using it 30+ hours a week
15:57<kyevan>(Although if queried my client you'd see it's irssi running on a linode >_>)
15:57<TheBlasphemer>Rubidium: to get back on the original argument, it's fine if you don't like ASP.NET, it's fine if VS2005 is not your personal preference
15:57<TheBlasphemer>just don't go about telling me VS2005 is crap because .NET is :/
15:58<Sacro>morning
15:58<Rubidium>oh... did I tell about VS2005 projects that can't be opened in VS2005?
15:58<Rubidium>had that problem yesterday
15:59<Rubidium>you would've hoped that that would work
16:00<TheBlasphemer>Well, I'm not sure what the exact situation was, but it might be that someone else on the network has locked the file or something :/
16:01<Rubidium>nope.. just copying it from one PC to the other and not being able to open the project file
16:02<TheBlasphemer>Don't suppose VS2005SP1 was on one of the boxes and VS2005SP0 on the other or something like that ?
16:02<+glx>corruption durig transfert?
16:03<kyevan>TheBlasphemer: That shouldn't matter.
16:03<Rubidium>kyevan: it actually does
16:03<kyevan>If you break compatability, give it a new number.
16:03<kyevan>Rubidium: Yes, it might, but it SHOULDN'T.
16:03<Rubidium>and 'installing' a SP isn't simple either
16:04<TheBlasphemer>Ok, let's just rephrase this in a way that you can't possibly disagree with:
16:04<TheBlasphemer>I like VS2005 and it's perfect for all my needs :P
16:04<Rubidium>-> download SP1 -> run -> he... why doesn't it continue with the upgrade?
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16:04<Gonozal_VIII>no it's not! :D
16:04<Rubidium>*waiting for 15 minutes* still the installer has not started (it has extracted though)
16:05|-|SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:05<Rubidium>it required a reboot before it could actually install the SP, but not giving any notice about it not being able to start would've been the least they could've done
16:05<kyevan>TheBlasphemer: Great!
16:05<kyevan>Then use it, but don't tell others to do so >_>
16:06<TheBlasphemer>You asked me what you would need for a windows build machine! :P
16:06<Rubidium>making Windows binaries... something I just do under Linux ;)
16:06<TheBlasphemer>ugh, shame on you :P
16:06<Rubidium>ask Belugas about that ;)
16:07<Rubidium>he was quite happy when I made Windows binaries for his patches using a website
16:07<TheBlasphemer>OMG, Firefox 3 BEta 2 is nice :)
16:07<TheBlasphemer>It broke Mozilla Personas, but I've already spotted some nice new additions :D
16:07<Gonozal_VIII>wtf ff 3?
16:08<Gonozal_VIII>2 is still brandnew...
16:08<TheBlasphemer>2 is a memory hog :/
16:08<Gonozal_VIII>but it's new
16:08<TheBlasphemer>So ?
16:08<Gonozal_VIII>what happened to 2.1?
16:09<TheBlasphemer>Ask mozilla :P
16:09<Digitalfox>Well it never happened to me, firefox using more than 150MB of RAM, and yes i use lot's of extensions
16:09<Digitalfox>And with 1 GB of RAM in all my machines doesn't look a lot
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>i had that with ff 1 sometimes but that could be disabled
16:10<Digitalfox>It seems the problem is after having firefox opened with many tabs after some hours it starts eating memory
16:10<Digitalfox>But i nver had 500MB of RAM used like some guys say
16:10<Gonozal_VIII>there was some well hidden setting to disable that
16:11<Digitalfox>It's about the cache used
16:11<Gonozal_VIII>yes...
16:11<Digitalfox>The advantage is that when you click" back" the page is still in memory
16:11<Gonozal_VIII>sometimes it used 300+mb of my 512...
16:12<TheBlasphemer>DigitalFox: I've actually had that several times, FF using +-700mb :/
16:12[~]Rubidium wonders why people always think using much memory is always bad for an application
16:12<Gonozal_VIII>it is when it uses so much that everything gets slow
16:12<Rubidium>I really do not care when FF uses 900 MB, but only when it would free memory as soon as another application needs it
16:12<TheBlasphemer>Rubidium: the fact that it uses 700mb of pagefile doesn't bother me, it's the fact that I can actually feel it getting slower with the hour
16:12<Digitalfox>Well Rubidium i don't mind apllications using all my memory.. Hey i paid it to be used not unused
16:13<TheBlasphemer>Opening a new tab used to take a full 3 seconds if I've had it open for some houts
16:13<TheBlasphemer>rs
16:13<TheBlasphemer>I've been this --> <-- close to switching to IE7 because it didn't feel that slow :/
16:13<Digitalfox>It's like Vista, people complain that with 2 GB of RAM it caches it all ( uses it all ) to make aplications load faster, well i don't mind using all the memory..
16:14<Gonozal_VIII>not only ff itself got slow, every click took some seconds then...
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16:15<TheBlasphemer>Gonozal_VIII: If you have those problems too, I highly recommend getting firefox 3 beta2, it's honestly a breath of fresh air :)
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>no those problems stopped long ago
16:15<TheBlasphemer>They did?
16:15<TheBlasphemer>How ?
16:16<TheBlasphemer>My gf still runs ff2, regularly updated, and she's still complaining about it :/
16:16<Gonozal_VIII>as i said there was a well hidden setting
16:16<Gonozal_VIII>google told me about it :-)
16:17<TheBlasphemer>;)
16:17<Gonozal_VIII>no problems since then and i often have 120+ tabs open
16:18<TheBlasphemer>:)
16:18<TheBlasphemer>Btw, any of you got any experience with DVD-burners ?
16:18<TheBlasphemer>I've recently bought a shiny new black case, and the fact that my DVD burner is white keeps bothering me :/
16:18<Sacro>TheBlasphemer: get a black bezel
16:18<TheBlasphemer>Sacro: where? how?
16:18<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: do you really need 120 tabs?
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>yes i do
16:19<TheBlasphemer>Sacro: I've looked for them, but couldn't find em
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/ <-- comics^^
16:19<Sacro>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Black-Plextor-CD-DVD-Drive-front-bezel-brand-New_W0QQitemZ220184736510QQihZ012QQcategoryZ3754QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>(don't click the "alle" button or you'll get 120 tabs too)
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>if js is enabled...
16:20<TheBlasphemer>Having it shipped here and all would probably cost me about ~E20, for that money I'd rather sell my old one and buy a new one :P
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16:22<Gonozal_VIII>paint it black
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>or roll some stones over it :-)
16:27<Gonozal_VIII>black water proof marker should do the trick
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16:44<pavel1269>gn
16:46<Gonozal_VIII>night
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16:47<Gonozal_VIII>diagonal roads are harder than i thought
16:49<Sacro>so's Bjarni
16:49<Gonozal_VIII>...
16:50<Gonozal_VIII>but the roads are ok, the rails are wrong, they shouldn't be in the middle of the tiles
16:51<Gonozal_VIII>two parallel rails should fit into one tile...
16:53<Eddi|zuHause2>make it ;)
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17:05<ln->where is the one and only ...?
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17:07<Prof_Frink>Over here.
17:09<ln->doesn't seem like you.
17:10<Gonozal_VIII>building a new robot
17:10|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:10<Gonozal_VIII>with a laser... and a railgun!
17:11|-|robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
17:12<Prof_Frink>laser *and* railgun?
17:13<Prof_Frink>I like that thinking.
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>you can never have too much weapons on a robot
17:14<Prof_Frink>Railgun, machine guns, missile pod, at-shells from the knees, free electon laser and big stompy feet.
17:14<TallOak>And an Electron Ram.
17:15<Prof_Frink>Don't remember Rex having a one of them
17:15<Gonozal_VIII>what does an electron ram do?
17:15<Prof_Frink>Bah, I took *way* too long to identify the source of the Electron Ram.
17:16<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: "Takes out this wall, no problem!"
17:16<Prof_Frink>What a depressingly stupid machine.
17:17|-|roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>now we scared him away
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17:42<kyevan>Wow, I'm less than 100k in the hole.
17:42<kyevan>This is... a new experience for me.
17:42<Gonozal_VIII>?
17:43|-|llugo [~lugo@p4FD5E7A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:43<kyevan>Of course, I don't know what to do now. So I took out a loan and bought a new train :)
17:43<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean you never managed to repay your debt?
17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>how long have you been playing this game?
17:45<kyevan>Not very long
17:45<kyevan>And I usually play for 10-20 minutes, toss the game, and get back to work, so :P
17:46|-|tokai [~tokai@p54B81116.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
17:46<Gonozal_VIII>you know that you can save/load games?^^
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17:57<kyevan>Yeh, but too lazy :P
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18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>you know, there are even autosaves :p
18:09<TheBlasphemer>kyevan: How do you do that?
18:09<TheBlasphemer>kyevan: I usually intend to play for two hours or so
18:09<TheBlasphemer>kyevan: and then end up playing all night long :/
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18:10<Gonozal_VIII>i guess he has to because openttd doesn't have a "boss-key" ;-)
18:11|-|Tlustoch [~last_evol@r5bn73.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:11<kyevan>Mom-key, really :P
18:11<MDGrein>but theres "window hiders" that works with everything
18:11<MDGrein>used them when I went to school :)
18:11<MDGrein>define everything = "windowed applications"
18:12<kyevan>Also, the boss key doesn't hide it from yourself, so that guilty bit in the back of my mind is like, 'work work work'
18:12<kyevan>In other news, I'm only 20k in the hole now :P
18:12<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that sucks... would need an off switch for that too
18:12<MDGrein>port openttd to flash and WHAM! productivity wolrd wide will drop 10%
18:12<Wolf01>install power menu and send it to tray :P
18:13<Wolf01>but is for windows only
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18:14<kyevan>on 'nix it's even easier, wolf.
18:14<Rubidium>jup... there the boss knows nothing about the OS ;)
18:14<Gonozal_VIII>did i mention that i always listen to it when something on irc reminds me of a song?
18:15<kyevan>Just switch virtual desktops, 98% of the world wouldn't even know there were other things runing :P
18:15<Wolf01>eheh
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>shut down explorer.exe...
18:22<kyevan>Woo! I'm debt free!
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>hehe gratz
18:23<kyevan>Of course, it's one of the insanely tiny maps, so there's not much more for me to do :P
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18:23<Gonozal_VIII>64*64 maps can be challenging...
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18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11669 /trunk/ (77 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: refactor tile.h -> tile_type.h and tile_map.h
18:26<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: Eh, well
18:26<kyevan>There's only one town, so no place for goods to go, because I can't really grow it very well.
18:27<kyevan>And it's small enough that PtP tracks work for the industries.
18:30<Gonozal_VIII>that's part of why it's challenging
18:30<Gonozal_VIII>at least with the newgrf i use
18:35|-|divo [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm "stop cluster bombs" commercial on tv..
18:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11670 /trunk/src/ (station.h station_cmd.cpp station_gui.cpp): -Feature [FS#1565]: list neutral stations where the player has service in the station list too
18:36<Gonozal_VIII>hmm do you pick your tasks at random smatz?
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18:37<Gonozal_VIII>here a change, there a change... you've been very busy lately... but it all seems kind of random
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18:40<SmatZ_>Gonozal_VIII: rather random, but bugfixes have higher priority :)
18:40<Gonozal_VIII>i never know where to start when i want or have to do something...
18:41<SmatZ_>me neither :) so I usually pick the easiest task first...
18:41<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
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18:51<Gonozal_VIII>are you still working on that tunnel/bridge thing?
18:52|-|lugo [~lugo@p4FD5D7F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:53<kyevan>Hmm
18:53<kyevan>Long tunnels should be able to overlap always...
18:53<kyevan>(Define long as "at least one non-entrance tunnel tile on either side of the crossing point", I think?)
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>that is way too short...
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>well... a slope is only 1 tile long
18:56<Eddi|zuHause2>and this would be completely not an issue if you have arbitrary rails in tunnels
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>and that's the tunnel/bridge thing i was talking about^^
18:56<Eddi|zuHause2>(me looks in a definite direction ;))
18:58<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause2: And signals, of course
18:58<kyevan>And while we're at it, let's allow road junctions, too :P
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>"arbitrary rails" does include signals
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>but not road crossings, as those are road tiles
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>but no bridges or tunnels inside the tunnel^^
18:59<kyevan>Awww.
19:00<kyevan>What if we accidently tunnel into D'ni and need to bridge across the cavern!?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, there would be no technical limitation that would forbid road tiles
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>what's a D'ni?
19:00<Gonozal_VIII>how does that work anyways? is there a seperate small map array attached to the tunnel entry or something?
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>there were different ideas about that
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>the thing i found most promising was that there are submaps of like 16x16 size, which are dynamically allocated
19:02<kyevan>D'ni is something from the Myst games >_>
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... this was a bad buffy episode...
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>found any 4-letter animals yet?
19:04<SmatZ>mule
19:04<Sacro>emu
19:04<SmatZ>:D
19:04<Sacro>goat?
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>sacro can't count to 4?^^
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>err... i generally stop the video before that cind of question comes up :p
19:05<Gonozal_VIII>video?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>ever heard of the joy of timeshift?
19:05<kyevan>Humans are animals, so, hmm
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>yes... but i don't consider that as video
19:06<Gonozal_VIII>but i also use it a lot
19:06<kyevan>4 letter word for a woman ending in -unt!
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i generally schedule shows that i want to watch as recording
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>because i will miss the start anyway
19:07<Gonozal_VIII>you were something like 5 minutes behind with the ending of buffy^^
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>then i watch the recorded video while it still records
19:07<Gonozal_VIII>yes... it's nice to skip the commercials
19:08<Gonozal_VIII>http://dev.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/tunnel2.png found it again :D
19:09<Eddi|zuHause2>iirc there was a patch somewhere
19:10|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
19:15<kyevan>When do towns start accepting goods?
19:15<Sacro>1973
19:16<Gonozal_VIII>when 8/8 goods are within the station catchment area
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>42.
19:16<Gonozal_VIII>:P
19:16<Gonozal_VIII>use the ? tool on the buildings
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>generally, you need at least 3 office buildings
19:18<kyevan>Is there any way to encourage those to start growing? >_>
19:18<Gonozal_VIII>provide some passenger/mail service
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>towns grow if you have active transportation
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>depending on climate, you need to deliver food and water also
19:18<Tefad>even if it's just a circle within the town itself ; )
19:19<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't matter where to
19:19<Tefad>if initially it is a loss, it won't take too long to squeak out a profit.
19:19<+glx>just put a line bus in the town
19:19<kyevan>Oh, I already have a little bus route running
19:20<Gonozal_VIII>you get the goods accepting buildings only on roads with sidewalk
19:20<kyevan>I mean, is there a way to encourage it to build office buildings rather than more homes and such.
19:20<Tefad>^
19:20<Gonozal_VIII>yes, fund new buildings... that expands the sidewalked area for some time
19:20<kyevan>Gonozal_VIII: Oh? How do roads decide if they should have sidewalks or not?
19:20<Tefad>i think there are three levels of town
19:21<Tefad>one is low density, one is mixed density, and the last is high density
19:21<Tefad>reflected by the roads
19:21<Tefad>they radiate outward from the town center as concentric circles, like a bullseye
19:21<Tefad>for small towns, you don't get much out of it.
19:22<Tefad>however you can dump a wad of cash into the town to temporarily upgrade the roads so the buildings are constructed
19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>there are 4 levels
19:22<+glx>and if you want to kill a town, just remove the road tile under the sign :)
19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>lights, trees, pavements, none
19:22<Tefad>but this doesn't mean the town won't decide to destroy it after the roads shrivel back to normal.
19:22<kyevan>Oh, huh. I didn't know you could do that.
19:23<Tefad>it's usually a large wad.. like half a million dollar/euros
19:23<Gonozal_VIII>you can't increase the effect with funding multiple times
19:23<Tefad>maybe smaller, i forget.
19:23<Eddi|zuHause2>"fund new buildings" in the local authorities window
19:23<Tefad>usually it's better to run small bus circuits in town
19:24<Tefad>or to neighbor if close enough
19:24<Eddi|zuHause2>it is a good thing to do if you can't deliver food
19:24<kyevan>Tefad: Well, all neighbors are off the map >_>
19:24<Gonozal_VIII>don't use fund local road construction... i think the only use of that is to annoy opponents with busses in the town...
19:24<Tefad>kyevan: you just have one town?
19:24<Eddi|zuHause2>64x64
19:24<Tefad>O_o
19:25<Tefad>i didn't know it went that small.
19:25<Gonozal_VIII>64^2 is fun :-)
19:25<Eddi|zuHause2>i only ever once played such a small map...
19:25<Tefad>good for PSPs and the like i imagine.
19:25<+glx>I do road only on small map
19:25<Eddi|zuHause2>it was a test game to find out why PBS were not working like they should
19:25<Gonozal_VIII>also hard to get some money with lv4
19:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i actually did find the reason ;)
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>hmm yay pbs works now?
19:26<Eddi|zuHause2>not now... a year ago
19:26<+glx>64² may be very hard because industry chains may be incomplete
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>ah..
19:27<Eddi|zuHause2>the PBS patch died with the cpp conversion
19:27<Tefad>heh
19:27<Gonozal_VIII>actually i don't need pbs much but a presignal type that ignores exits that can't be reached (90 or 135°) would be nice
19:27<+glx><Eddi|zuHause2> the PBS patch died with the cpp conversion <-- like many patches ;)
19:27<Eddi|zuHause2>exactly my thought ;)
19:28<+glx>Gonozal_VIII: but these exits are used for priority stuff :)
19:28<Eddi|zuHause2>KUDr originally joined to create new PBS, but then he got "distracted" ;)
19:29<Gonozal_VIII>yes, i don't mean to change the general behaviour of the presignals but to add a different type that ignores those exits
19:29<Eddi|zuHause2>what i need is 2 layers of presignals (for independent bi-directional traffic)
19:29<+glx>the new PBS needs to be pathfinder independant
19:29<Eddi|zuHause2>and a combo signal that forwards the exit signal status, but not assumes it itself
19:30<Eddi|zuHause2>so trains that already entered the junction are guaranteed to exit
19:30<Gonozal_VIII>i'm still strongly into the idea of removing the pathfinder in favour of programmable switches
19:30<kyevan>I want fully programable signals :P
19:30<Tefad>finite state machines ftw?
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19:32<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: that patch shouldn't be too hard actually
19:32<Gonozal_VIII>eddi, both your and my presignal type could be reached with a signal where you can define which exits it should reflect
19:32[~]Sacro might try that patch tommorow
19:32<Gonozal_VIII>yay :D
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19:33<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: the problem with your suggestion is the huge amount of micromanagement that would require
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>normal behaviour should remain as default option...
19:34<Tefad>i vote for constructing blocks as a unit
19:34<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, sure, but you have no choice of transition steps...
19:34<Eddi|zuHause2>either full or none
19:35<Tefad>because what i said totally made sense in my head
19:35<Tefad>but i can't express it in words : x
19:35<Gonozal_VIII>a switch is a tile with more then one rail on it... it has a maximum of 4 directions in and out...
19:35<Tefad>four?
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>yes
19:36<Tefad>but eight tracks
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>ne, nw, se, sw
19:36<Eddi|zuHause2>no, 6 tracks
19:36<Tefad>right, there's no half like roads n/m
19:36<Gonozal_VIII>trains can't enter or leave the tile anywhere else
19:37<Eddi|zuHause2>a train entering from one direction can leave in 3 others
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>they can do so at 3 different angles for each direction but that doesn't matter
19:37<Tefad>not all the time
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>yes eddi
19:37<Tefad>most tracks have one entrance one exit
19:37<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, it depends on where the train comes from, and 90° turns setting
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>it has a maximum of three options
19:38<Tefad>sure
19:38<kyevan>Wait, I though you could do 90 degree turns by default?
19:38<kyevan>So that would mean you have a max of /5/ exits.
19:38<Tefad>five? lies
19:38<Gonozal_VIII>no, that's also 3
19:38<Tefad>90deg is between two tiles
19:38<Gonozal_VIII>180° would be 4
19:38<Eddi|zuHause2>kyevan: no, 90° off means you reduce the number of choices from 3 to 2
19:39<kyevan>you can do 90, 45, 0, -45, -90,
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>depending on what tracks are on that tile
19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>no, kyevan
19:39<kyevan>Assumeing a-fulltracked tile
19:39<Gonozal_VIII>90 and 45 leads to the same exit
19:39<Tefad>the 90's carry into the next tile
19:39<kyevan>left, right, left-at-an-angle, right-at-an-angle, foward?
19:39<Tefad>where if 90 is turned off the next tile has ones less option.
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>no, kyevan, at each tile border you only ever have 3 choices
19:40<Tefad>90 is two 45's
19:40<Eddi|zuHause2>the other choices already were at the previous tile border
19:40<kyevan>Er, dur, I'm an idiot :P
19:40<Tefad>if 90 is off, two 45s in the same direction can't happen : )
19:40<kyevan>Never mind :P
19:40<Tefad>(relative to train)
19:40<Tefad>yup yup.
19:41<Gonozal_VIII>so very limited and easy to understand options for a switch
19:42<Eddi|zuHause2>and several thousand switches in a big network
19:42<Gonozal_VIII>yes^^
19:42<Eddi|zuHause2>which you have to program differently for each train
19:43<Eddi|zuHause2>which you also easily can get a thousand of
19:43<Gonozal_VIII>group/shared orders/freight type/something
19:43<Tefad>but only for each block
19:43<Tefad>if a train isn't in the block, why bother computing its rules or whatever
19:44<Eddi|zuHause2>if i have a huge passenger network, i don't have that many shared orders
19:44<Gonozal_VIII>there's always a default rule
19:44<Tefad>or am i not completely understanding what's going on here
19:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Tefad: it's not about computing, it's about setting up
19:45<Gonozal_VIII>default rule = the track that has been there before the single track tile turned into a switch tile
19:45<Tefad>why would you have to set it up per train
19:45<Gonozal_VIII>and you can change that of course
19:45<Eddi|zuHause2>for each new train i build i have to program each switch it may be going to pass to have it take the right direction
19:46<Gonozal_VIII>not necesarily
19:46<Tefad>i thought path finding did that
19:46<Eddi|zuHause2>Tefad: because there is no pathfinder, to let the train decide on its own?
19:46<Gonozal_VIII>there could be a rule "trains that have station x as their next order go left"
19:46<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII said "remove pathfinder"
19:46<+glx><Eddi|zuHause2> for each new train i build i have to program each switch it may be going to pass to have it take the right direction <-- that's how it works IRL IIRC
19:47<Tefad>why not for each train constructed, it compute an automatic path which can be augmented
19:48<Gonozal_VIII>that could be additional help, yes...
19:48<Tefad>or you set up way points
19:48<Tefad>a bunch of them
19:48<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: "trains that have station x as their next order, y as the subsequent order, z as their ultimate target, speed over 160km/h, run more than 200 ticks late, are less than 60% full and have more than 30 days until the next depot visit"
19:48<Eddi|zuHause2>"except on fridays"
19:48<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
19:49<Gonozal_VIII>extreme case but... yes :D
19:49<Eddi|zuHause2>that is not even extreme...
19:49<+glx>and don't forget to change the rule when you work on the track ;)
19:49<Gonozal_VIII>that could really need the build in pause cheat to be legalised^^
19:50<Eddi|zuHause2>build in pause would be fine, if tracks have a construction time instead
19:50<Eddi|zuHause2>(so you really would be doing "plan in pause")
19:51<Gonozal_VIII>that should be doable as the tracks have the counter thing inside anyways (grass growth patch bla)
19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>track tiles only have a marker "grass or no grass" (i.e. a 1 bit counter), plus stuff for the fences
19:52<Gonozal_VIII>hmm the grass growth on unused track patch has a counter for that... you told me so^^
19:53<Eddi|zuHause2>well, yes, but that is not in trunk :p
19:53<Gonozal_VIII>that countdown part of the patch could go into trunk as countdown until track is finished...
19:53<Eddi|zuHause2>but map space is generally a rare ressource
19:53<Gonozal_VIII>right
19:54<Gonozal_VIII>hmm empty tiles have plenty of space right?
19:54<Wolf01>'night
19:55<Gonozal_VIII>night
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19:55<Eddi|zuHause2>only water tiles have really a lot of space
19:55<Eddi|zuHause2>empty tiles have grass growth, tree growth, rough land etc.
19:56<Gonozal_VIII>they wouldn't need grass or trees when there is a rail being constructed on them
19:56<Gonozal_VIII>more like a farm tile
19:57<Eddi|zuHause2>well, but you would need a marker that you would be building rails, and then storage space for which railtype and trackbits, if signals etc. are to be constructed, and ultimately you store 90% of a regular rail tile in a different tile type...
19:57<Eddi|zuHause2>you are heading in a silly direction there...
19:58<Gonozal_VIII>i realise that...
19:59<Eddi|zuHause2>good night
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>i won't bring up the "it's more realistic that way" argument...
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>night eddi...
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>i like micro management a lot...
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but only if you have the option to not do micromanagement where it is not necessary
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20:02<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... having a tmpfs was a bad idea...
20:02<Eddi|zuHause2>now not only is my HD full, but also my RAM
20:02<Gonozal_VIII>options: use normal pathfinder, use automatic with orders generated set of rules for the switches, program everything yourself
20:03<Gonozal_VIII>that's really bad
20:05<Eddi|zuHause2>the real problem is going to be that you are also having to do load balancing
20:05<Gonozal_VIII>ah yes, i thought about that too... had some notes, looking
20:05<Eddi|zuHause2>"if last train of same type was less than 300 ticks ago, choose that track"
20:07<Eddi|zuHause2>i am going to be in real space trouble tomorrow...
20:07<Gonozal_VIII>more like store how many trains went where (over a certain period) and prefer a defined spread
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20:09<Gonozal_VIII>search for stuff that you have in compressed and decompressed form... that usually frees some space if used the first time...
20:09<Gonozal_VIII>at least for me when i'm too lazy to delete archives after decompressing
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 20 00:00:22 2007