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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-20

---Logopened Thu Dec 20 00:00:22 2007
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03:31<dihedral>morning ladies
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04:09<dihedral>is there still work in progress on the no-ai branch?
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04:22<dihedral>or is there development on getting squirrel to the console language?
04:22<Eddi|zuHause3>there has been no declaration of stopping work
04:22<dihedral>well - that does not really mean _that_ much :-P
04:22<dihedral>i beleive i once saw a commit or two by Rubidium to the noai branch - but i am not sure
04:23<dihedral>and if squirrel were the main console language that would make it pretty powerful :-P
04:23<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, but with truebrain leaving, and other devs with "time constraints", plus 0.6 being released "shortly", i don't think there will be much happening in the near future
04:29<dihedral>i was not wanting to 'see' something happen in 'the near future' - and i think nearly everybody knows that one should not expect anything to happen in 'the near future'
04:29<dihedral>i was just wanting to be updated with the current state :-)
04:29<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i meant for very generous definitions of "near" ;)
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04:30<dihedral>yes - as generous as it always is in #openttd :-P
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04:31<roboboy>when I test a vehicle what constitutes testing so I dont get the penalty imposed on me of no new tests for the next year
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04:36<roboboy>you know the blue box asking if you want to test their vehicle
04:37<dihedral>you want to tell me you actually 'test' it - i mean - you do something else than simply use it?
04:38<roboboy>but what constitues testing
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04:38<roboboy>can it just be a short run
04:38<dihedral>you get the privilege of using it a year elarlier than anybody else?
04:38<dihedral>look at it more of a promotion thiny
04:38<roboboy>say I plan to use it but dont get the line finmished before the train is made available to all
04:39<TallOak_>They usually come at a higher breakdown cost, IIRC.
04:40<Eddi|zuHause3>roboboy: i think if you don't have it after 1 year, they won't offer you any more prototypes for a while
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04:44<roboboy>about a year
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05:08<Smoky555>hi all
05:09<Smoky555>in last trunk someone forget to add window_*.h files to project ... (trunk 11670). Who can fix this?
05:10<Smoky555>and window.h file is still in project ...
05:11<Eddi|zuHause3>and state WHICH project...
05:12<Smoky555>it is not bag, game builds ok without any errors.
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05:14<Eddi|zuHause3>but there the people who can fix it will read it
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06:04<Smoky555>what is the max population in city in openTTD ?
06:05<Wolf01>i think
06:10<Prof_Frink>(max. pop. per building)*((max. town radius)*pi^2)*(required road factor)
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08:09<As1>Hi all. Just wondering; How do I transfer money to another player in multi-player mode? :-)
08:10<+glx>use client list
08:11<As1>Ahhhh, thanks very much.
08:11<As1>Why is my nick Openttd I wonder. :-)
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08:53<frosch123>Hoooorrraayy! Holidays!
08:54<Gonozal_VIII>since last week!
08:54<frosch123>For some months :)
08:54<Gonozal_VIII>why that?
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08:55<Gonozal_VIII>ah germany...
08:55<frosch123>well actually until I find a job.
08:56<frosch123>Some kind of final holidays.
08:56<Gonozal_VIII>had that two years long until i decided to start studying...
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08:57<frosch123>well, i just finished :)
08:57<frosch123>took long enough
08:58<Gonozal_VIII>what did you study?
08:58<frosch123>"Technomathematik", i.e. applied mathematics
08:59<Gonozal_VIII><-- business informatics
09:00<Gonozal_VIII>what kind of work needs a technomathemage?
09:00<Gonozal_VIII>(just made that word up, cool, isn't it?)
09:01<frosch123>things, that need more mathematical skills, than engineers or informatics have :)
09:01<frosch123>solving partial differential equations etc.
09:02<Gonozal_VIII>well, solving is not the problem, computers do that... finding the right equation is more problematic
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09:03<frosch123>well i teach the computer how to solve them, and there are a lot which are not that easily solvable
09:04<frosch123>like doing some mouse-clicks in femlab, ...
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09:06<Gonozal_VIII>femlab does research on women?
09:07<frosch123>It is a kind of woman for mathematicans :)
09:09<Gonozal_VIII>"dies ist mein femlab, es gibt viele femlabs, doch dieses ist meins..."
09:09<frosch123>if you really want to know: finite-element-method-laboratory.
09:10<frosch123>though it is the name of the company now. the software is named "comsol" since it is independent from matlab.
09:13<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know anything about that companies or products...^^
09:14<frosch123>then you are neither a mathematican nor an engineer. :)
09:14<Eddi|zuHause3>he said "buisiness informatics" ... that's like the worst kind...
09:14<frosch123>But you have chances that you meet "matlab" during your informatics studies.
09:15<frosch123>well there are a lot girls in "buisiness informatics".
09:15<frosch123>if they are not watching soaps all day, they are fine.
09:15<Gonozal_VIII>there's not many of us but one day we will rule the world! muhahahahahaha
09:16<Eddi|zuHause3>the only girls here study "bio-informatics"
09:16<Gonozal_VIII>bio informatics? :S
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09:16<frosch123>yes, they also construct women
09:17<Gonozal_VIII>and yes, we have lots of girls
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09:17<frosch123>... watching soaps all day
09:17<Gonozal_VIII>there's also the afternoon talkshows
09:18<Eddi|zuHause3>well, they program test software for certain deseases (e.g. Alzheimer)
09:19<Eddi|zuHause3>and they measure code quality in unemployed engineers per lines of code :p
09:20<Gonozal_VIII>are the ones that set them free to live a happy workless life :-)
09:20[~]frosch123 has indeed heard a lecture "bio informatics", but it was about reconstructing dna, searching patterns, etc. Btw. the lecturer was a female professor.
09:21<Gonozal_VIII>female professors are a myth
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09:23<frosch123>Well she was always muttering, that she gets letters for "mr. professor..."
09:23<Gonozal_VIII>we have a whole institute for gender stuff :S
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09:28<Gonozal_VIII>they do very important reaearch to find more words where you can attach "Innen"
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09:29[~]Hendikins growls
09:29<Hendikins>Have to double back and I can't fucking sleep.
09:30<Gonozal_VIII>try to sleep without fucking
09:31[~]Hendikins shakes head.
09:31<Gonozal_VIII>read something... preferably a manual
09:31<Hendikins>Tried that.
09:31<Hendikins>I've written manuals, so they don't bore me to sleep.
09:32<Eddi|zuHause3>you always analyse the other people's style :p
09:32<Hendikins>Or I could give up, and crash after I finish my next shift.
09:32<Gonozal_VIII>try "Bunte Steine" from Adalbert Stifter... if you can't read german even better
09:32<Eddi|zuHause3>try counting trains ;)
09:33<Hendikins>Eddi|zuHause3: I do that at work.
09:33<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i know ;)
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09:33<Eddi|zuHause3>but around here, they always advise you to count sheep
09:33<Hendikins>And I actually mean that somewhat literally, I've been going through the STNs and doing up the modified SWTTs and DVAs for my station.
09:34[~]Gonozal_VIII has no idea what that was supposed to mean
09:34<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume time tabeling stuff
09:34<Gonozal_VIII>you could write a patch for programmable switches ;-)
09:35<Hendikins>Gonozal_VIII: STN = Special Train Notice. SWTT = Standard Working Timetable. DVA = Digital Voice Announcement
09:36<Hendikins>When we've got altered running for whatever reason (usually trackwork), an STN is issued.
09:36<Gonozal_VIII>i thought you don't use the dvas a lot
09:36<Hendikins>I don't, others do
09:36<Hendikins>And I have the attention to detail required for putting the announcements and whatnot together.
09:37<Eddi|zuHause3>especially within trains they often have digital voices telling "next stop: XYZ"
09:37<Hendikins>Our "modified SWTT" is a document that contains a nice table of the trains leaving my station in each direction - run number, time, via, stopping pattern, and when it hits Central (or terminating location)
09:38<Gonozal_VIII>have to go deiceify my car... have to drive my mother and grandparents to the next city for shopping in 20 minutes
09:38<Hendikins>So what I end up doing is reading the STN, picking out what bits we actually care about, dropping them in to the aforementioned table, then using the data in that table to do the DVA library.
09:39<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm i'll check the webcam first if there is snow outside..
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09:45<Eddi|zuHause3>he really feels the wrath of peer...
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10:20<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: But he knows who peer is.
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11:03<fjb>Hi SmatZ
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11:18<SmatZ>evening fjb
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11:57<Gonozal_VIII>is there a way to get qos through some software when the router itself doesn't have it?
11:57<Gonozal_VIII>sorry for the offtopic question
11:58<Digitalfox>Gonozal_VIII: CfosSpeed
11:58<Eddi|zuHause3>as long as the router runs linux ;)
11:58<+glx>but will only work for qos on your own pc
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11:58<Digitalfox>Use it in every pc and it will prioritize web pages traffic and put P2P to the back
11:58<Digitalfox>I use it at home and at work
11:58<Digitalfox>And reccomend it
11:59<Digitalfox>So my P2P doesn't slow down my web experinece
11:59<Digitalfox>It adjusts P2P download and upload to let you open pages and make some downloads
11:59<Gonozal_VIII>thanks... could be useful but atm it's another pc on the network that's slowing me down
11:59<Digitalfox>yes, but still can use it
11:59<Digitalfox>and if you can intsall it in that machine
12:00<Digitalfox>The new version of Cfos Speed talks to each pc so that P2P or other aplications is put behind
12:00<Digitalfox>Give it a shot
12:04<Gonozal_VIII>now to tell him about it... he has the same problems (just got disconnected from icq)
12:05<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Which kind of network load gets you disconnected?
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12:14<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: an unlimited p2p client can really choke your network
12:15<fjb>Yes, but also a simple ftp or http download can. p2p is not always the reason for a jam in the network.
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12:19<Gonozal_VIII>installed and running on both pcs
12:21<Eddi|zuHause3>i give you 30 minutes :p
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12:23<Gonozal_VIII>morning :S
12:24<Digitalfox>Gonozal_VIII: So how is it doing?
12:24<Gonozal_VIII>connection to icq failed...
12:25<Digitalfox>You instaledd cfos on both?
12:25<Gonozal_VIII>lots of load on the hd
12:25<Digitalfox>the first thing you have to do on both is use max download and upload so it can calibrate
12:26<Digitalfox>Then in the program you can say what you want to have more importance
12:26<Digitalfox>By default it should all P2P to the last place
12:26<Gonozal_VIII>what does it do to my harddisk?
12:26<Digitalfox>it doesn't need the HDD
12:26<Gonozal_VIII>but its very active...
12:27<Digitalfox>are you sure it's not your firewall or anti-virus?
12:27<Digitalfox>Hey i use it for 3 years now, and also a lot of friends with no problems
12:27<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm acs.exe uses 70% of the cpu
12:28<Digitalfox>that's not cfos
12:28<Gonozal_VIII>but it didn't do that before
12:28<Digitalfox>thats your modem/router software
12:28<Digitalfox>if not mistaken
12:29<Digitalfox>What do you use modem or router?
12:29<Digitalfox>Disable it, if needed
12:29<Digitalfox>So a router conceted to a modem?
12:30<Gonozal_VIII>disabled acs.exe, now the hd works even more
12:30<Digitalfox>And why do you need router/modem software if the conections is made by the modem in conjuction with the router?
12:30<Gonozal_VIII>but cpu usage is down from 75% to 4
12:30<Digitalfox>Are you sure it's not the anti-virus?
12:31<Gonozal_VIII>back to normal now
12:32<Digitalfox>The best way to use Cfos, is to have a fresh windows with no modem/router software and your firewall and anti-virus propery configured to let cfos work
12:32<Digitalfox>Many people also use it to online games, better Low Ping
12:33<Digitalfox>It's pretty used actually :)
12:33<Gonozal_VIII>icq doesn't connect
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12:33<Digitalfox>Gonozal_VIII: read this
12:34<Gonozal_VIII>i already set trillian to higher priority
12:34<Gonozal_VIII>hmm i'll try restarting it
12:35<Digitalfox>what p2p is your friend using?
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12:40<Gonozal_VIII>icq is connected now
12:40<|Jeroen|>to what ?
12:40<Gonozal_VIII>to the icq server :-)
12:41<Digitalfox>so is it better?
12:41<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know... i'll have to see if it keeps disconnecting me
12:44<Digitalfox>Th longer you use the better experience you'll have..
12:44|-|Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:44<Digitalfox>Also there is a lot of things you can change
12:45|-|Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
12:46<Digitalfox>but Gonozal_VIII what P2P does your friend use?
12:47<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm don't know
12:49<Gonozal_VIII>[18:45:21] *** You have been disconnected. Thu Dec 20 18:45:21 2007.
12:49<Gonozal_VIII>[18:47:36] *** You have been disconnected. Thu Dec 20 18:47:36 2007.
12:49<Digitalfox>Well you should, because if is emule you should configure it to use 80% of download max and upload max, or it will estrangulate your conection.. Also emule has an option to try to auto-upload speed, that should be turned off..
12:49<Digitalfox>Cfos Speed works well if you also configure right your P2P aplications
12:50<Digitalfox>Theres no miracles
12:51<Digitalfox>But what you are experinecing is the worst situation that can happen.. losing aplications concetions to the server with bad pings tranfers time/speed
12:51<Digitalfox>Sorry my english, but i'm using a semi destroyed keyboard..
12:53<Gonozal_VIII>yes... msn is the worst, it doesn't even connect there... icq disconnects and reconnects all the time and irc sometimes
12:53<Digitalfox>So do what i'm telling you, find out what P2P he is using and CONFIGURE IT PROPERLY
12:54<Gonozal_VIII>he says qtorrent
12:54<Gonozal_VIII>gamma :S
12:54<Gonozal_VIII>i guess he means µ
12:54<Digitalfox>Go the options and put 80% of your speed of download and upload..
12:55<Digitalfox>And see if theres a option for auto-speed control, and deactivate it
12:55<Digitalfox>Until you do this, what you are experiencing will just continue even with cfos, because it can't make miracles
12:56<Digitalfox>Cfos works if the P2P aplicattions are well configured
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12:56<Digitalfox>For example i have ADSL 8128/384 so i have in emule download unlimited and max of upload 35KB/s
12:57<Gonozal_VIII>hmmmm he had it limited to 15kb/s upload and 50 download...
12:57<Digitalfox>So that 7-8KB/s are free for server conections
12:57<Gonozal_VIII>3mbit line
12:57<Digitalfox>what upload do you have?
12:57<Gonozal_VIII>384 too
12:58<Digitalfox>So that means it cab 30KB/s of upload, but if auto-upload speed is turned on it will raise that value
12:58<Digitalfox>Also there another thing how many half-conections does you router modem suppoort'
12:58<Gonozal_VIII>half connections?
12:59<Gonozal_VIII>automatic setting has been off
12:59<Gonozal_VIII>so what's a half connection?
13:00<Digitalfox>well wiki ;)
13:01<Digitalfox>All router/modem hgas a limit of how many by sec it can do
13:01<Digitalfox>if that limit is reached concetions will be lost
13:01<Digitalfox>so see how many there is the u torrent
13:01<Digitalfox>and try to find out how many your hardware support
13:01<+glx>windows already limit half connection number
13:02<Digitalfox>yes to 10
13:02<Digitalfox>but that limit is normally raised by a patch
13:02<Digitalfox>and his friend have changed it
13:02<Digitalfox>i for example have 100
13:02<Digitalfox>but normally emule or azureus only use 50
13:03<Digitalfox>but that's because my US Robotics support it, has a good CPU
13:03<Gonozal_VIII>the connections to peers/seeds?
13:03<fjb>I don't see why a router should have a limit in half open connections.
13:03<Eddi|zuHause3>no, the connections that are about to start
13:03<Digitalfox>But Gonozal_VIII maybe we should talk by private, we are flooding the channel with off topic discussion
13:04<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: because the producers are cheap bastards
13:04<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause3: True :)
13:05<fjb>The router only forwards the packets, no need to care about the state of a connection. Even the firewall of the cheapest router should have no problem with the number of connections.
13:06<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: how much do you know of routing?
13:06|-||Bastiaan| [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
13:07<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: Why do you ask?
13:07<Eddi|zuHause3>to be able to put your statements into the right context
13:08<fjb>I have build profeesional firewalls with quality of service support.
13:10<SmatZ>"Even the firewall of the cheapest router should have no problem with the number of connections."
13:10<SmatZ>then I had "cheaper than cheaper" ... it was dying when I was trying too many connections in a short time
13:10<fjb>Reaching the limit of half open tcp connections (only tcp has it anyway) doesn't cause disconnections of already established connections.
13:10<SmatZ>like 50 conn/sec
13:10<SmatZ>router lockup etc
13:11<fjb>SmatZ: Bugs may be in any software, especially in chaep one. That is sad and true.
13:13<fjb>A router that gets locked up under any condition is a pice of crap. It may drop connections when it is not capable to allow more, but it should never lock up.
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13:16|-|Gonozal_VIII_ changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
13:26<fjb>What did you install? cFos speed?
13:28<fjb>I took a look at their website. It looks very capable. But it only shapes the traffic of the computer it is installed on, if I'm not mistaken.
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>variable (cooperative) Your connection has variable bandwidth and/or you use it with several PCs simultaneously. cFos Traffic Shaping is installed on all PCs.
13:30<fjb>So one computer still can steel the bandwith of the other.
13:30<Gonozal_VIII>there is that setting
13:31<fjb>Ah, ok. The question is, how it manages that cooperative mode.
13:31<Gonozal_VIII>no idea
13:32|-|Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
13:32|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
13:32<Gonozal_VIII>but not very good as it seems because icq disconnected 6 times since install
13:32<fjb>Traffic shaping is very limited if the traffic shaper doesn't see the whole traffic.
13:32|-|Tlustoch [] has joined #openttd
13:33<fjb>First step should be to find out the cause of your disconnections.
13:34<Digitalfox>One thinng is a router with broadband modem included another thing is a conection with a Modem + Router.. They may not get along very well..
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13:34<Digitalfox>I've seen many cases of this
13:34|-|Aerandir [] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - -]
13:34<fjb>Hi Haube
13:34<Gonozal_VIII>hmm so it could be a hardware problem...
13:34<Haube>wow very crowded here ;)
13:34<Digitalfox>When a Router with broadband included would be 2x more stablke than a Modem conected to a Router
13:35<Digitalfox>Diferent manufucters don't always get along very well
13:35<Digitalfox>You have the example of Wireless draft 2
13:35<Digitalfox>not all of them get along
13:35<fjb>I don't beleave in a hardware problem yet. We still don't know enough about the cause of the disconnections.
13:36<Digitalfox>i'm saying it is, but could be
13:36<Haube>i have a short question, how can i buy firm completely , i am playing on lan with a friend and we want to merge our companys
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>it used to be only me directly on the modem and later he wanted to get internet too so he bought the router... that's why it's not a combined router/modem thingy
13:36<fjb>Draft is draft, as the name tells. It is not estonishing that two different drafts are not working together.
13:37<fjb>Haube: Buying a whole company is not possible in multyplayer.
13:37<Haube>i tried also to load it in single player but it dosen't work either
13:38<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: How is your network layout?
13:38|-|Leif__ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:38<Gonozal_VIII>router is connected to modem then we're both directly connected to the router
13:39<Haube>ok if its not possible thanks for the help, so i dont have to spend much time, i will idle a bit around here ;) nice place ! have a nice day/evening
13:40<Eddi|zuHause3>once upon a time there was a patch setting to buy out a company with 100% shares
13:40<Eddi|zuHause3>(single player only)
13:40<fjb>Only the router is able to do a fair traffic shaping. cfos speed may help, but it will have a hard time to make it fair.
13:41<Haube>computer players can still be taken over,
13:41<Gonozal_VIII>it doesn't need to be fair, it's fair enough if icq/msn/irc doesn't disconnect
13:41<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: You should try to find out if sending or receiving causes the problems.
13:42|-|Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
13:42<fjb>The disconnects of already established connections are caused by timeouts or lost packets.
13:42|-|Aerandir [] has joined #openttd
13:43<Gonozal_VIII>i would guess sending as the incoming bandwidth was nowhere near fully used
13:44<fjb>That is good. You have a better chance tu cure problems on the sending side.
13:44<+glx>the problem is often upload
13:45<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Is your download speed highter when you are not uploading anything?
13:45<Gonozal_VIII>download drops to almost zero when upload is >35 kb/s
13:45<Gonozal_VIII>but he had it limited to 15
13:46<fjb>Looks like the problem are dropped ack packets.
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13:48<Gonozal_VIII>how do keep them from being dropped?
13:49|-|egladil [] has joined #openttd
13:49<fjb>Give them highes priority. But it looks like cfos speed already does it. Does your download speed still drop with installed cfos speed when your friend is using more of the upload bandwidth?
13:51<Gonozal_VIII>he has the same icq problems, so he is offline now...
13:52<fjb>We need his cooperation to debug your problem.
13:52<Gonozal_VIII>i'll sms him
13:53<Eddi|zuHause3>how far apart are you guys?
13:54<Gonozal_VIII>he's a floor above me
13:55<@Bjarni>ohhh... is he still stealing all your bandwidth?
13:55<Gonozal_VIII>yes, bad him
13:55<@Bjarni>give me his IP and I will ban him
13:55<Gonozal_VIII>same as mine^^
13:55<Prof_Frink>disenRJ45 him.
13:55[~]Bjarni has the root password to the internet
13:56<SmatZ>Bjarni: rm -Rf /
13:56|-|mode/#openttd [+b *!*] by Bjarni
13:56<@Bjarni>now I banned him
13:56|-|mode/#openttd [-b *!*] by Bjarni
13:57<Gonozal_VIII>he's online again and i told him to resume downloads... so i'll disconnect soon
13:57<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: so... do you need any more help?
13:57<@Bjarni>you asked him to take your bandwidth???
13:57<fjb>Bjarni: Gonozal_VIII needs a router with a capable traffic shaper. Send one to him.
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that would help :-)
13:58<fjb>Bjarni: We try to debug his problems.
13:58[~]Bjarni uploads a new router to Gonozal_VIII
13:58<@Bjarni>and it's a mighty good one
13:58<@Bjarni>it has a special feature
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>how do i decompress software to hardware?
13:58<@Bjarni>it gives me full LAN access without you realising it
13:58<fjb>Sadly it's also a virtual one...
13:59<fjb>Bjarni: Look at all the bad stuff at :-)
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>3d matter printer...
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>i'm :-)
14:00<@Bjarni>look at all the source codes on
14:00<@Bjarni>this guy appears to be a coding genius
14:00<Eddi|zuHause3>look at all the security holes at
14:00<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm totally going to hack this guy
14:01<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: You published your IP, now you are lost. :-)
14:01<@Bjarni>looks like I can connect to this guy on all ports... no firewalls or anything
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes
14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: we're going to DDoS him, alright?
14:01<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: I have really low ping to your IP
14:02<|Jeroen|>yeah a good old dossing
14:02<@Bjarni>but.... why are you using such an ancient mac?
14:02<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: What IP ist your freind using?
14:02<@Bjarni>it's so 1999
14:02<@Bjarni>or even older
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>same with 6
14:03[~]Bjarni feels sorry for Gonozal_VIII
14:03<@Bjarni>the computer is too old for even OpenTTD
14:03<Gonozal_VIII>1999 computer is too old for openttd?
14:03<@Bjarni>this one is
14:04<fjb>A 1999 Mac ist too old...
14:04<DeGhost>get linux
14:04<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: Is he using more bandwith with his uploads now?
14:04<@Bjarni>266 MHz G3... but the problem is that the newest version of OSX it can use is 10.2.8 while OpenTTD needs 10.3
14:05<Eddi|zuHause3>get an older version of OpenTTD ;)
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>his upload is between 27 and 35
14:05<fjb>Bjarni: Would installing a X server not help?
14:05<Eddi|zuHause3>or try to bug the MAC dev that he introduces support for 10.2.8 :p
14:05<Prof_Frink>This computer could probably play openttd if I set it to use fbdev
14:05<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: is your download speed still near 0?
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>went down to 20 kb/s
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>my download
14:06<|Jeroen|>wouldn't the simplest sollution be to install linux onto it ?
14:06<@Bjarni><fjb> Bjarni: Would installing a X server not help? <-- no because the native graphics are faster than X on OSX
14:07<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: That is low. Are you sure that cfos speed is installed correctly and is shaping the trffic of the networking interface in use? I mean on both computers?
14:08<Gonozal_VIII>yes it is... should be
14:08<fjb>Gonozal_VIII: And is your daonload speed the same as before you installed cfso speed or is it higher now?
14:08<Gonozal_VIII>didn't change
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14:09<fjb>Hm, then cfos speed is not doing it's job. It is either not shaping the traffic on the used interfaces or it is not capable to shape your kind of traffic.
14:10<fjb>I fear the traffic shaper has to run on the router to be able to shape your traffic.
14:11<Gonozal_VIII>router doesn't support that
14:12<fjb>Hack that router. :-)
14:12<fjb>What kind of router is it?
14:12<Gonozal_VIII>Your Speed
14:12<Gonozal_VIII>2.536 kbps
14:13<Digitalfox>Hack the router lol
14:13<Gonozal_VIII>netgear RP614v4
14:14<fjb>That speed is not really low.
14:15<Gonozal_VIII>well yes... but it shouldn't disconnect icq, msn and irc all the time
14:16<fjb>Maybe the problem is that cfos speed is not able to diferrentiate the ack packets of different connections. Or you could try to give icq etc. the highes priority.
14:16|-|SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>another speedtest site says upload 2624kbps download 304kbps
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>i already gave trillian highest priority
14:18<fjb>Looks like it is not able to solve your problems.
14:18<Gonozal_VIII>that sucks...
14:19<Digitalfox>fjb: So what do you recommend now?
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>so i'll just keep pulling his cable when i disconnect too often
14:19<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: Get Bjarni to build a robot to pull the cable automagically
14:20<fjb>Buy or build a router with traffic shaping. Or tell the friend to use p2p software only at night.
14:20<Gonozal_VIII>i can reach the cable from here
14:20<Gonozal_VIII>only at night? but that's when i'm online the most
14:20<fjb>Timesharing. :-)
14:20<fjb>Ok, then tell him to use it at day.
14:22<Digitalfox>Sorry but there is no need to trafic shapping on a router from a home user... In this PC i have emule and azureus running right with this IRC client.. On my bedroom my girlfriend is seeing TV stream from the internet and in my other PC i have a Multi player game turned on.. And my router has traffic shapping off, and i onlu cfos Speed
14:23<Gonozal_VIII>i told him to download his stuff between 4 and 12 when i'm most likely asleep
14:23<Digitalfox>So IMHO there's no need for hardware traffic shapping
14:23<fjb>Traffic shaping is software anyway.
14:23<Digitalfox>Software is cheaper and does the work to..
14:23<Digitalfox>True but the hardware has to support it
14:24<fjb>And you have a very diffent mix of traffic than Gonozal_VIII has.
14:24<Digitalfox>I do?
14:24<Wezz6400>there's no such thing as hardware routing anyway, the fact that it's firmware running on slow chips doesn't change that it's software
14:24<fjb>Not every kind of traffic can be shaped with cfos speed in cooperating mode.
14:25<Digitalfox>yes, but i'm a heavy dsl user, and have no problems using cfos...
14:26<Digitalfox>But we are very off topic, so i'll just leave the discussion :)
14:26<fjb>How do you explain that Gonozal_VIII is still having the problems then?
14:27<Digitalfox>I don't.. But i would point out to bad configuration on torrent's program..
14:27<Digitalfox>I never said i did know what was wrong..
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>he said that the automatic stuff is off
14:28<Digitalfox>yes, but there is more configurations.. That is just tip of the iceberg.. If you use azureus and turn on advanced user you will see what i'm talking about
14:28<fjb>Traffic shaping should solve problems with a badly configured p2p client. If the p2p client is configured to be nice you don't need traffic shaping.
14:29<fjb>If the traafic shaper is working you don't need to configure the p2p client manually. If you have to do that, the traffic shaper is not shaping your traffic.
14:30<Gonozal_VIII>good thing is that it's his last year on the school here, so from summer on i'll have the connection alone again
14:34<DeGhost>what school/
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>a school type that only exists in austria so you wouldn't know
14:36<Gonozal_VIII>for interior design and wood technology... or something like that^^
14:43<@Bjarni>sounds like a school for gay people
14:43<Gonozal_VIII>it does in the english translation... but it's not
14:43<@Bjarni>I mean... interior design
14:44<Gonozal_VIII>it's not really about placing a plant there and some candles there...
14:44<Gonozal_VIII>more the architecture part
14:44<@Bjarni>hehehe... not to mention wood technology XD
14:44<fjb>Oh, cfos speed is really limited in cooperative mode. It tries to guess the availlable bandwidth by using pings. The cfos speed instaces on the diffent computers are not talking with each other. You must be lucky if that kind of shaping is working.
14:45<@Bjarni><Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Get Bjarni to build a robot to pull the cable automagically <-- that wouldn't work
14:45<@Bjarni>you see.... I'm taking time off
14:45<@Bjarni>finished the last exam today :D
14:45<Gonozal_VIII>no cable pulling robot for me?
14:45<Gonozal_VIII>oh nice
14:45<@Bjarni>now I will do something completely different
14:46<Gonozal_VIII>codeing for openttd 24/7 ;-)
14:46[~]Bjarni has an appointment at the switching yard tomorrow
14:46<fjb>An appointment with a train?
14:47<Gonozal_VIII>do they pay you for driving or do you pay them for letting you drive?^^
14:47<@Bjarni>are you indicating that I want to date a train?
14:47<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: They pay him to deisgn robots to drive the trains. With lasers and railguns.
14:48[~]fjb doesn't indicate anything.
14:48<@Bjarni>I heard about people being married to the railroad but I think it's meant in a different way XD
14:48<Gonozal_VIII>a different type of railgun.. a gun that shoots out rails
14:49<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> do they pay you for driving or do you pay them for letting you drive?^^ <-- I'm not getting paid but I don't really pay anything myself either (except an annual members fee)
14:49<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> a different type of railgun.. a gun that shoots out rails <--- I want one of those
14:49<@Bjarni>laying tracks by hand is so physically hard
14:49<Rubidium>Bjarni: is going to clean the ballast with a tooth brush
14:50<@Bjarni>specially without machinery and machinery is too expensive for us :(
14:50<@Bjarni>I knew we forgot something
14:50<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Just make a big loop of track and put it round the train
14:50<Gonozal_VIII>ballast :S
14:51<Gonozal_VIII>why do you need ballast?
14:51<@Bjarni>beats me
14:51<@Bjarni>well.... we don't lay real tracks, only sidings
14:51<@Bjarni>with a severe speed limit
14:51<fjb>So the trains dont capsize.
14:52<@Bjarni>the demands aren't as high as real tracks
14:52<@Bjarni>fjb: oh... good point
14:52<@Bjarni>are you guys picking up ballast?
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>hmm could a train drive on asphalt without rails?
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>i guess you couldn't steer it...
15:03<fjb>Depends what kind of driving you mean...
15:04<Gonozal_VIII>what kind hmmm?
15:04<@Bjarni> <-- this kind?
15:04<@Bjarni>damn... I just spent 8 minutes finding that image
15:04<fjb>Oh, oh...
15:04<Gonozal_VIII>hmm the asphalt doesn't look good there
15:05<@Bjarni>that page needs an index instead of "get random picture"
15:05<pavel1269>he can't turn there? ^^
15:05<Gonozal_VIII>how did that happen?
15:05<@Bjarni> <-- I guess the train has to drive on asphalt here as well
15:06<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> how did that happen? <-- poor tracks... it derailed
15:06<@Bjarni> <-- bad shortcut and bad timing
15:07<pavel1269>from czech! :P
15:07<@Bjarni> <-- this one is Dutch... it blocked the trams for more than an hour
15:07<@Bjarni>some shortcut
15:07|-|Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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15:07<pavel1269>lol :D
15:07<Gonozal_VIII_>disconnected again...
15:07<@Bjarni>it jammed between the tracks
15:08<@Bjarni> <--- I have no idea about the story behind this one
15:08<@Bjarni>any ideas?
15:09<Rubidium>that 'dutch' one looks kinda photoshopped to me
15:09<fjb>Gonozal_VIII_: I have read the online documentation of cfos speed. There is no way it can help you. A future version maybe. They are pallning a better cooperative mode.
15:09<Gonozal_VIII_>ok... thank you
15:10<Gonozal_VIII_>hmm strange thing is he isn't downloading anything atm
15:10<@Bjarni>Rubidium: I read about that one in the news at one time... this woman tried to drive on the rails to make a shortcut to avoid heavy traffic.... it worked well for a while but then this happened
15:10<Gonozal_VIII_>ah... that was a regular 8h disconnect
15:11<@Bjarni> <--- this is what I'm planning on NOT doing tomorrow
15:11<@Bjarni>the one to the left appears to be nearly breaking the switch
15:12<Gonozal_VIII_>look how much they love each other :-)
15:12<Rubidium>their muxer failed
15:12<Sacro> <- it begins
15:13|-|DeGhost [] has quit []
15:14<ln->where does Bjarni Railways operate?
15:14<@Bjarni> <--- wtf?
15:14<@Bjarni>ln-: ?
15:15<ln->to get onboard a train driven by Bjarni, where to go?
15:15<Gonozal_VIII_>that's fake
15:15<SmatZ>Bjarni is a train driver?
15:16<Gonozal_VIII_>he thinks so... don't burst his bubble
15:16<@Bjarni>ln-: Copenhagen or further to the north
15:16<fjb>Bjarni thinks he is a train driver. :-)
15:16<@Bjarni>tomorrow is without passengers though... it's "just" switching yard operations
15:17[~]Bjarni slaps fjb
15:17|-|Gonozal_VIII_ changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
15:20<@Bjarni>why is it so hard to believe that I actually have a life?
15:21|-|DeGhost [] has joined #openttd
15:21<ln->because you are *not* here 24/7?
15:21<@Bjarni>ohh I get it
15:21<@Bjarni>because I'm offline once in a while I can't do anything without using a computer
15:21<@Bjarni>now that sounds logical
15:22<@Bjarni>you are a true Vulcan by heart
15:22<ln->so that indicates you must be trying to fake life by being offline even several days now and then.
15:22<ln->you're still at your computer, but not using irc, that is.
15:22<fjb>Really? there is life outside the internet?
15:22<@Bjarni>that would be stupid
15:23<@Bjarni><fjb> Really? there is life outside the internet? <-- yes... those are called UFOs
15:23<fjb>Ok, ok, I don't belive in UFOs.
15:24<@Bjarni> <-- why not? They are for real
15:24<@Bjarni>see for yourself
15:24<@Bjarni>we should trust the government XD
15:25<fjb>The earth may possibly flat...
15:25<Gonozal_VIII>the earth is a sphere
15:25<Gonozal_VIII>we are on the inside
15:26<SmatZ> :-x that is sad
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15:28<@Bjarni>SmatZ: it's claimed to be a hoax. Look at the name and connect it with the fact that it's written on Hitler's birthday
15:29<Gonozal_VIII>why do people know when hitler's birthday is :S
15:29<@Bjarni>I don't know
15:29<hylje>one must know one's führer
15:29<@Bjarni>I read it when I read that it's a hoax
15:29<@Bjarni>otherwise I wouldn't have known
15:30<SmatZ>the true is that "April 20th < April 22nd"
15:30<fjb>The cousin of my father had the same birthday as Hitler.
15:31<SmatZ>errr nothing! I didn't say anything!
15:31<Gonozal_VIII>only very good teachers can predict future actions
15:31|-|SmatZ [] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!]
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15:31<SmatZ>nice to see you
15:31<Gonozal_VIII>hello you guy who didn't say anything
15:32|-|a1270 [] has joined #openttd
15:32<SmatZ>hello :)
15:32<fjb>Everybody say hello
15:34<@Bjarni>why am I following orders?
15:34|-|Mucht [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:34|-|fjb kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [don't try to command me]
15:35<Gonozal_VIII>no autorejoin...
15:35<@Bjarni>is it that hard to reconnect?
15:35<SmatZ>you made him sad
15:35<+glx>must notice it first
15:36<Gonozal_VIII>he's crying now
15:36<pavel1269>sometimes i'm having reconnecting problems :)
15:37<pavel1269>guess some kind of bug
15:37<SmatZ>poor fjb
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15:43<gege>dont you know guys there are any way to changing the ottd game scoring mechanism?
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15:44<Gonozal_VIII>there's a patch somewhere in the forum afaik or you could write your own
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15:45<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: why did you say "yes" twice?... and the first time even BEFORE the question was asked?
15:45<@Bjarni>are you some kind of super natural spiritual guy?
15:45<Gonozal_VIII>that was lolcode, not japanese or something^^
15:46<@Bjarni>hai is Japanese for "yes"
15:46<gege>i know
15:46<@Bjarni>but it's usually written はい though
15:47<SmatZ>はい though
15:47<@Bjarni>I just said that
15:48<Eddi|zuHause3>and i was already worried if i was the only person to see things twice...
15:49<Gonozal_VIII>i can't see utf-8... but your lines were different
15:49<Gonozal_VIII>bjarnis thing was longer
15:50<Eddi|zuHause3>utf-8 may have different encodings for the same character
15:50<@Bjarni>now it's shorter ;)
15:50<ln->"bjarnis thing was longer"... ...
15:50[~]Bjarni starts to search for hidden cameras
15:51<@Bjarni>would even have to be x-ray cameras
15:51[~]Bjarni is a decent person
15:51<@Bjarni>and I dress in a way that fits my personality
15:52<Eddi|zuHause3>== pink plastic?
15:52<Gonozal_VIII>hehe mazda pi
15:56<pavel1269>SmatZ: tell them something at that toher channel! :D
15:58<SmatZ>pavel1269: you are back already :)
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15:59<pavel1269>good nick, right? :P
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16:04<pavel1269>SmatZ: am i on that channel?
16:05<pavel1269>i cant join it sais me that i am conencted and i can't send anything
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16:54<Gonozal_VIII>why did everybody stop writing?
16:54<Gonozal_VIII>write now! everybody!
16:57<ln->today's quiz; where's the photo taken:
16:58<SmatZ>some concentration camp ?
16:59<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's what i think too after a closer look
16:59<ln->kassel would be a bit too obvious an answer.
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17:05<Gonozal_VIII>never heard of that...
17:07<ln->near hamburg
17:07<Gonozal_VIII>yes, google told me
17:09<Gonozal_VIII>that wagon is in a very good condition for its age
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17:11<ln->the railway under it is only a few hundred meters long (but contains 1 switch), and has been (re)built in the 90's
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>some time ago i thought that if zombies would have overrun the earth and you would look for a save place to sleep and keep your stuff, a train would be a good idea
17:14<Gonozal_VIII>depending on how fast/strong/intelligent the zombies are :-)
17:17<Sogard>Airports seem like a cheezy way of getting rich.
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17:18<Gonozal_VIII>use grfs with more expensive aircraft
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>higher purchase/running cost
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17:20<Gonozal_VIII>but you don't have to build any tracks and think about paths or signals....
17:20<Gonozal_VIII>planes are boring
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17:21<Gonozal_VIII>sometimes i attach heliports to stations in big cities to fly some tourists around but i hardly ever build airports
17:22<Sogard>Yeah, I prefer trains over all.
17:22<Sogard>They're just more fun.
17:24<Gonozal_VIII>and some trucks/busses/trams inside towns that transfer to the station :-)
17:25<Gonozal_VIII>and ships to cross water because i don't like long bridges...
17:28<Digitalfox_>What's name of that movie with the mouse that wants to be a cook?
17:28<Gonozal_VIII>i know the name but don't ask me to write it down...
17:29<Digitalfox_>i need it :(
17:30<Digitalfox_>yeah i found it :)
17:30<Digitalfox_>but thanks ;)
17:33<Gonozal_VIII>why did you need that?
17:33<Sogard>Good movie.
17:38<Digitalfox_>It's for my girlfriend sister
17:39<Digitalfox_>And since it's no longer in movies theatres here in Portugal or in DVD yet, well...
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17:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11671 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix: sometimes a vehicle was selected in the vehicle list when it was opened
17:48|-|Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:48<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni left!
17:49<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see... first vehicle has a white square around it...
17:49<SmatZ>yes yes :)
17:50<SmatZ>just a tiny bufix
17:51<Gonozal_VIII>was that on flyspray?
17:51<SmatZ>I wonder nobody reported it
17:51<SmatZ>it has been bothering me for ages :)
17:51<Gonozal_VIII>i never noticed that
17:52<SmatZ>probably that is the reason... but now you noticed it :-P
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18:16<Gonozal_VIII>[00:02:12] *** roboboy has signed off IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>[00:04:19] *** robotboy has signed off IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>[00:12:14] *** roboman has signed off IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
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18:16<SmatZ>@seen roboboy
18:16<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: roboboy was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 32 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <roboboy> about a year
18:17<SmatZ>@seen robotboy
18:17<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: robotboy was last seen in #openttd 28 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 59 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <robotboy> what version of .net does build ottd need?
18:17<SmatZ>@seen roboman
18:17<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: roboman was last seen in #openttd 34 weeks, 6 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: * roboman remembers on Brianetta's Starndard when he went broke and had a cala wit a dock on it that weh deleted caused the city to be submerged
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>first man then boy... his time is running backwards!
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>next will be robobaby!
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18:31<Brianetta>He tried roboman for a night
18:31<Brianetta>but everybody told him off
18:31<Brianetta>roboboy was better, we said
18:31<Brianetta>so he went back
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18:40|-|[newbie] changed nick to Gekz_
18:41<roboboy>although robobman is my last choice for nicknames on irc
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18:55<Gonozal_VIII>that seems to be a bug
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>i left the game open where i tested that vehicle list thing...
18:56<Gonozal_VIII>now it keeps scrolling left
18:57|-|Haube [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:58<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm pressed the left key and it stopped
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>can't reproduce it
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19:07<Eddi|zuHause3>Gonozal_VIII: may have to do with the game loosing focus before geting the "release key" event
19:07<Eddi|zuHause3>i once got that while holding RMB
19:11<ln->or "losing" with one o
19:15<Eddi|zuHause3>ln-: i will always and forever make that mistake
19:16<ln->ok, carry on
19:18<Gonozal_VIII>what happens to the hd of a laptop in a maglev train when you place the bag containing it on the ground?
19:19<ln->either you have a very big bag or a small train.
19:19<Gonozal_VIII>containing the laptop^^
19:19<Gonozal_VIII>not train
19:19<Eddi|zuHause3>inside a metallic object, there should be no outside magnetic or electric fields
19:21<Gonozal_VIII>[01:20:55] Bartleby: magnetfeld geht schon mal rein
19:21<Gonozal_VIII>i know that... and he knows that even more, he studied physics
19:23<Eddi|zuHause3>electric and magnetic fields depend on each other
19:26<Gonozal_VIII>[01:25:16] Bartleby: gibt halt kein em-feld mehr, aber magnetfelder lassen sich schlecht abschirmen
19:28<Eddi|zuHause3>so what does he think the "m" in "em" means?
19:29<Gonozal_VIII>[01:28:43] Bartleby: statische magnetfelder kannst nur mit supraleitern abschirmen, wechselfelder auch mit normalen leitern, allerdings nur relativ schlecht im vergleich zu elektrischem feld
19:29<Gonozal_VIII>[01:29:21] Bartleby: magnetisch, aber hier gehts nicht um ausbreitung, sondern nur darum obs eindringt
19:30<Gonozal_VIII>[01:29:43] Bartleby: dass es danach keine 300 mio kilometer mehr ausbreitet is wurscht
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19:32<Gonozal_VIII>[01:31:47] Bartleby: wenn e-anteil vom em-feld abgeschirmt wird breitets sich halt nicht mehr uasi unendlich weit aus sondern nimmt in stärke ab, aber dringt trotzdem noch ein
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19:32<Gonozal_VIII>i would translate that stuff but i don't understand it...
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19:57<ln->wtf, i bought a 8-port 10/100 ethernet switch, and it has a driver disc with it??
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19:58<ln->you don't see anything strange in that?
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>erm... no?
19:59<+glx>a switch doesn't need any drivers
19:59<+glx>you just plug it in the network
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>i have lots of stuff with useless drivers
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>usb stick, mouse, hd...
20:00<+glx>usb stick contains drivers for win98 in them :)
20:01<+glx>it needs to work for you to be able to get the driver
20:02<ln->Gonozal_VIII: having drivers for a switch is something like having drivers for the power cord of your computer.
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20:29<kyevan>20:28 < publicserver> kyevan: Wow, I didn't DC?
20:29<kyevan>20:28 < publicserver> kyevan has left the game (connection lost)
20:29[~]kyevan laughs
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21:05<TinoDidriksen> - trains gone wrong.
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21:06<Gonozal_VIII>that's like mikado with wagons
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21:12<kyevan>Does ottd use unicode internaly, or?
21:13[~]kyevan 's trying to figure out if it's ottd or publicserver's fault things like ñ don't copy nicely across from ottd to irc
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 21 00:00:56 2007