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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-22

---Logopened Sat Dec 22 00:00:46 2007
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04:25<Wolf01>hello
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05:24<pavel1269>hi
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07:59|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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08:27<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni!
08:27<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII!
08:27[~]Bjarni waits for Gonozal_VIII to time out
08:28<Gonozal_VIII>hehe that stopped :-)
08:28<@Bjarni>it should take no more than a few minutes
08:28<Gonozal_VIII>the router seems to be the bad guy
08:28<Gonozal_VIII>direct connection to the modem --> no problem
08:28<@Bjarni>so you updated the firmware?
08:29<roboman>my problem seemed to be the card/driver but dlink dont offer drivers for it anymore
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08:30<Gonozal_VIII>the router is not that old... 2 or 3 years... but i guess it was the cheapest one available
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08:37<Digitalfox>Good afternoon everybody :)
08:37<Gonozal_VIII>morning
08:38<@Bjarni>roboman: try drivers.com
08:38<Digitalfox>oh, its 13:37 here lol
08:38<Gonozal_VIII>14:38 :-)
08:38<@Bjarni>they have all sorts of drivers. Some of them are hard to get elsewhere
08:38<@Bjarni>Digitalfox: your clock has a severe lag
08:38<@Bjarni>[14:38:09] <Digitalfox> oh, its 13:37 here lol
08:39<Gonozal_VIII>[14:38:08] Digitalfox: oh, its 13:37 here lol
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08:39<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: stop copying me
08:39<Gonozal_VIII>hmm my clock was 1,10 seconds wrong
08:39<Digitalfox>drivers.com is great :) Only problem is that you can only download 5 drivers for each account unless you buy a subscription pack :(
08:40<@Bjarni>I didn't know that
08:40<@Bjarni>then again I only needed one driver
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08:40<Gonozal_VIII>i guess there are not that many drivers that you can't get anywhere else
08:40<Digitalfox>my clock has a severe lag?? Lol
08:41<Gonozal_VIII>at least not for a normal user
08:41<Digitalfox>there are lot's of drivers that i can't elsewhere besides driver.com
08:41<Digitalfox>*find
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08:41<Digitalfox>because users can upload drivers, even for there own backup
08:42<Digitalfox>so lot's of stuff there
08:42<Gonozal_VIII>well yes... but lots of drivers for stuff you actually need?
08:42<Digitalfox>yes
08:43<Gonozal_VIII>ok..
08:43<Gonozal_VIII>do you steal your computer components out of museums?^^
08:43<Digitalfox>everyweek some old pc get's in my hands to fix, and drivers is always a nightmare.. So drivers.com rules
08:43<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
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08:44<Digitalfox>Beisdes networks i also fix friends and clients pc's
08:44<skidd13>Digitalfox: use linux and you don't have problems with (most) older hardware ;)
08:44<Digitalfox>skidd13: What about drivers?
08:45<Gonozal_VIII>[14:41:05] Gonozal_VIII: at least not for a normal user <-- you're not a normal user then ;-)
08:45<Digitalfox>nope
08:45<skidd13>Digitalfox: AFAIK drivers won't be taken out of the kernel (and even if, you can use a prior main line like 2.2 or 2.4)
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08:48<roboman>I got nowhere at drivers.com
08:48<roboman>did you mean driveragent.com?
08:53<Digitalfox>roboman: http://www.driverguide.com/
09:03<roboman>found what I think I want
09:05<@Bjarni>you think
09:05<@Bjarni>...
09:05<@Bjarni>maybe your computer disagrees
09:06<Gonozal_VIII>why would he need a computer?
09:06<Gonozal_VIII>as a roboman :-)
09:07<roboman>lol
09:08<roboman>and the install didnt work or like my pc
09:12|-|fjb [~frank@p5485F265.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
09:12<fjb>Moin
09:13<Gonozal_VIII>hi
09:14<fjb>I just got a packet from my best friend and her family, full of cookies. :-)
09:14<@Bjarni>that's too bad
09:15<@Bjarni>but at least browsers can clean out all cookies in no time
09:15<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
09:15<fjb>To bad that you don't have a friend that can make cookies? :-P
09:15<Gonozal_VIII>i thought of those cookies too
09:15<fjb>It came per snail mail, so no cokkies got lost.
09:16<@Bjarni>if you mean Christmas cookies then you better say so
09:16<fjb>cookies
09:16<Eddi|zuHause3>"let me browse your cookie jar" :p
09:16<fjb>:-)
09:16<fjb>No they are mine. :-P
09:16<@Bjarni><fjb> It came per snail mail, so no cokkies got lost. <-- we had a burglary on our post office the other night... somebody wanted extra Christmas presents so they stole other people's presents
09:17<fjb>That is really sad . :-(
09:17<@Bjarni>so it is indeed possible to have lost packages with snail mail
09:17<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm good idea
09:18<@Bjarni>as luck would happen my package was at the package terminal and not the local post office that night
09:18<fjb>Bjarni: Don't give Gonozal_VIII bad ideas.
09:18<Gonozal_VIII>lost packages are no biggie, they'll just resend it and you've got yourself some presents :-)
09:19<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: if you try to do something funny then I will do something funny to you
09:19<@Bjarni>like scientific experiments
09:19<Gonozal_VIII>yay fun
09:19[~]fjb hides the cookies from Gonozal_VIII.
09:20<@Bjarni>like how will the colour of your face chance if I drain half a litre of blood from you every 10th minute
09:20<Gonozal_VIII>i wouldn't leave my house anyways... there's frozen water everywhere outside...
09:20<@Bjarni>that could be an all day experiment
09:20<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't leave my house anyways... there's frozen water everywhere outside... <-- that's called ice
09:20<fjb>Bjarni: That would be over much too fast...
09:20<Gonozal_VIII>my body consists of 70% water or something, i don't want to freeze!
09:21<Eddi|zuHause3>it's really strange, we don't have snow, but it's white all over the place...
09:21<fjb>That's the fog from yesterday.
09:21<@Bjarni>the weather forecast here tells us that we will not get a white Christmas due to global warming...
09:21|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd
09:21<@Bjarni>it's below 0 °C though
09:22<Gonozal_VIII>lots of snow here
09:22<Gonozal_VIII>stupid snow...
09:22<Eddi|zuHause3>the chance of white christmas was always slim
09:22<Eddi|zuHause3>even more so near the water...
09:22<@Bjarni>statistically it's 6% here
09:22<Gonozal_VIII>slim chance of about 95%
09:22<Vikthor>not much of snow and below 0˚C due to inversion here in Prague
09:23<roboman>ive heard cases of places further up from the NSW snowwy mountains getting a white christmas
09:23<Vikthor>and smog also do to inversion
09:23<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, here, each tree and other plant is covered with ice...
09:23<Gonozal_VIII>why would somebody want snow?
09:23<@Bjarni>because the demand for a white Christmas is that at least 95% of the country has at least 0,5 cm of snow.... but the chances of a local white Christmas is somewhat higher
09:23<Eddi|zuHause3>it looks really great
09:23<@Bjarni>the weather forecast tend to forget talking about local weather though
09:23<fjb>It's frozen fog here. I don't think it will last till Christmas.
09:24<roboman>thwe NSW snowy mountains are usually the only place to get snow in NSW and they are almost in the southern border of NSW and VIC
09:24<Vikthor>Gonozal_VIII: Where from Austria exactly you are?
09:24<Eddi|zuHause3>and we didn't have smog since the mid 90's
09:24<Gonozal_VIII>it may look good but all the work with shoveling it aside...
09:24<Gonozal_VIII>hallstatt
09:24<Eddi|zuHause3>when all major industries closed, and half the population wandered off to "the west"
09:24<@Bjarni>you know... winter is great fun with all the white outside (snow or ice) but it's less fun when the ice is inside water pipes
09:25<Gonozal_VIII>or on your car..
09:25<fjb>roboman: How hot is the summer?
09:25<Gonozal_VIII>or on the path from the house to the road...
09:25<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause3: The problem here is that even that some industries closed, much more polution comes form cars
09:25<Gonozal_VIII>or on the road...
09:25[~]Bjarni has tried driving with a snowplow
09:25<Eddi|zuHause3>Vikthor: yeah, but the people with cars are more likely to move away
09:25<@Bjarni>in mid summer :P
09:26<roboman>sometimes 40 C but 30 C usually
09:26<hylje>http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1197969565619.jpg
09:27<fjb>Great picture.
09:28<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause3: Well that's probably one of very few things thats better for you in former DDR
09:28<@Bjarni>stupid picture
09:28<@Bjarni>or rather... stupid firefox
09:29<@Bjarni>why isn't it starting....
09:29<Gonozal_VIII>works for me
09:29<Eddi|zuHause3>well, not really, because when all the semi-rich working people go away, all there is left is students, old people and "assis"
09:30<@Bjarni>odd... I opened the pic in safari instead and then it opened in no time
09:30<@Bjarni>firefox is still thinking about what to do
09:30<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: There are very sad things happening in Eastern Germany. :-(
09:30<Gonozal_VIII>my firefox opened it without a problem
09:30<@Bjarni>that's how it usually works here
09:30<@Bjarni>too
09:31<@Bjarni>but... something is weird right now
09:31<@Bjarni>10% free CPU time... it should not be an overloaded computer
09:31<hylje>firefox sucks
09:31<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause3: Of course, I meant that less polution is one of very few positive things that happening in Eastern Germany, in global it's probably not so good
09:31<Gonozal_VIII>does not
09:31<@Bjarni>it's loaded but now overloaded
09:32<murray>opera > firefox > * > IE
09:32<@Bjarni>murray: that would be evil to do
09:32<@Bjarni>besides how would you walk over to IE?
09:32<murray>wut?
09:33<murray>> means "greater than"
09:33<@Bjarni>ahh
09:33[~]murray > Bjarni
09:33<@Bjarni>I thought you meant direction of travelling
09:33<murray>lol no
09:33<hylje>haha
09:33<@Bjarni>and I considered your statement really odd
09:33<Gonozal_VIII>didn't like opera when i tested it...
09:34<Gonozal_VIII>was slooow
09:34<Eddi|zuHause3>it's brainfuck code...
09:34<Eddi|zuHause3>> means "increase the pointer"
09:34<Eddi|zuHause3>the other characters are commentaries
09:34<@Bjarni>I once talked to an opera coder and I said that I installed it and he said "poor you"
09:34[~]roboman has been playing OpenTTD lately ive been runing a small server for a few freinds
09:34<@Bjarni>this was in the beta days though
09:36<roboman>Am I able to force openttd to save everything and use everything in the directory it was put in. I put it in OpenTTD on my desktop but it wants everything but data to be in My Documents
09:36<@Bjarni>I now officially declare firefox for being in deep shit
09:36<@Bjarni>it is still trying to start
09:36<Gonozal_VIII>refresh...
09:37<@Bjarni>it is trying to open a window....
09:37<roboman>I know this was done for getting round the Program Files permisions stuff
09:38<@Bjarni>hmm
09:38<Gonozal_VIII>you don't need it in my documents
09:38<@Bjarni>I forced quitted it and now it opened in secs
09:38<roboman>im geusing thats why I couldnt start my dedicated server
09:38<Gonozal_VIII>that's to use multiple installs of openttd with the same settings
09:38<roboman>it isnt but its dumping my saves there
09:38<@Bjarni>bbl
09:38<roboman>bye
09:39[~]Bjarni is going to travel now
09:39<@Bjarni>all the way to the kitchen
09:39<Gonozal_VIII>by train?
09:39<@Bjarni>I think so
09:39<roboman>will sticking openttd.cfg in the folder fix it?
09:39<@Bjarni>because then I got the right of way
09:39<Eddi|zuHause3>roboman: if you have anything in your openttd dir, it will prefer that over the my documents dir
09:39<Gonozal_VIII>yes
09:39<roboman>ok
09:44<roboman>can I force the dedicated server to stay open?
09:45<Gonozal_VIII>hmm? what do you mean?
09:47<roboman>it closes immediately cause of erors i think when I tell it to open a save game
09:47<Gonozal_VIII>ah
09:47<roboman>I can not read what it says so I do not know why it is closing
09:47<hylje>have a script restarting it whenever it dies
09:47<hylje>and run it in a console
09:47<roboman>i run it openttd -D -g blah
09:48<Gonozal_VIII>run it with a .bat and add pause in the next line :-)
09:48<roboman>so that will do the trick
09:48<roboman>cmd aint closing
09:51<roboman>cmd wasnt closing its the openttd console that opens
09:51<roboman>and the suddenly closes
09:52<roboman>runing it from a .bat doesnt keep the console open
09:52<roboman>cmd stays open
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>there was something about turning stuff int console apps
09:52<roboman>ok
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>*into
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>but i don't know anything about tha
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>t
09:54<+glx>http://devs.openttd.org/~glx/convert.zip
09:55|-|Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-200-134.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd
09:55<+glx>^^ that's the tool to convert openttd into console app
10:06<roboman>thanx
10:10<roboman>the game load was failing
10:11<roboman>it was something about format not recognised
10:12|-|gege [~jo-reggel@static-81-17-185-44.dunaweb.hu] has joined #openttd
10:12<gege>good day
10:12<Gonozal_VIII>hi
10:13|-|xintron [xintron@blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:13<gege>i installed the ttrs2aw grf file when i first start everything is fine
10:13<gege>but when next time i want to run the program it crashes
10:14<gege>where i need to send the crash.dmp?
10:15<Gonozal_VIII>why not ttrs3?
10:15<gege>sorry ttrs3 i think
10:15<gege>but after i delet the grf and openttd.cfg
10:15<gege>it crashes again and again
10:16<Gonozal_VIII>you changed the cfg manually? maybe you broke something there...
10:16<gege>after i restart the win everything is fine
10:16<gege>i changed manually
10:16<gege>but after i del the cfg it crashes again
10:17<gege>i dont know why this bug
10:17<gege>but maybe help if someone get this crash.dmp
10:17<gege>i want to send it only for help this great work
10:17<Gonozal_VIII>http://bugs.openttd.org/ <-- look if you can find the bug there, if not, post it :-)
10:18<gege>:)
10:18[~]roboman can not stop listening to this song
10:18<gege>185 report im afk for a hour or two:)
10:18<Gonozal_VIII>if yes, reply there...
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10:24<gege>hm i dont really know what make this crash
10:24<gege>but i dont see bug what type of this
10:24<gege>and after a restart everything ok
10:24<+glx>check if there's a reason in crash.log
10:24|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A40A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt]
10:25<gege>sorry i reinstall the full game only the crash.dmp saved
10:25<+glx>we need both :)
10:25<gege>but after reinstall it crashes again
10:25<gege>i reboot and now works
10:25<+glx>looks like a memory problem
10:25<gege>in this way i ttry to reproduce this bug
10:26<gege>you mean hardware problem?
10:26<+glx>yes, that's a possibility
10:26<gege>i use that hp notebook about a year
10:27<gege>and i dont remember any hardware crash
10:27<gege>but i try this night a memtest
10:28<+glx>put the crash.dmp somewhere, so I can check where it crashes
10:28<roboman>gnight/morning
10:28<roboman>gnight in the early hours
10:31<@Bjarni>early?
10:31<@Bjarni>it's just past sunset
10:31<Gonozal_VIII>sunset was in october
10:31<@Bjarni>you aussies are doing everything reversed
10:32<@Bjarni>I guess walking upside down makes something to the bloodflow to the brain or something
10:32<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> sunset was in october <--- yeah... it's just past sunset
10:32<Gonozal_VIII>ok...
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm yesterday was the middle, not?
10:34<Gonozal_VIII>so it's halfway between sunset and sunrise :-)
10:34<Gonozal_VIII>which is somewhere mid february
10:35<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm yesterday was the middle, not? <-- yesterday was big switching yard day
10:35[~]Bjarni can still feel it all over his body
10:36<Gonozal_VIII>switched the rails for the sun?
10:38<@Bjarni>yesterday had nothing to do with the sun
10:38<Gonozal_VIII>yesterday.. all my plasma balls seemed so far away...
10:39<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> yesterday.. all my [...] balls seemed so far away...
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>all your ball are belong to us!
10:39<@Bjarni>I know people mainly grow during the night but still..
10:42<+glx>gege: using 0.5.3 ?
10:43<@Bjarni>so did you guys buy all the Christmas presents that you plan to give?
10:43<gege>yes
10:43<+glx>try "openttd -mnull"
10:43<+glx>looks like it fails to start music
10:44<Gonozal_VIII>[16:43:12] Bjarni: so did you guys buy all the Christmas presents that you plan to give? <-- yes... as in bought none, plan to give none
10:44<+glx>same for me :)
10:45<gege>i buyed everything but i dont want to give for anyone:)
10:46<Gonozal_VIII>why should i give people presents for somebody else's birthday?
10:46<gege>:)
10:46<Eddi|zuHause3>... who is even unlikely to have had birthday on that day
10:46<Gonozal_VIII>especially if that guy is most likely fictional
10:48<gege>gonzal i think catholicism not your religion
10:48<Gonozal_VIII>ok, i guess the guy itself isn't fictional, only who he thought to be and what he did...
10:48<Gonozal_VIII>well, technically i am catholic
10:49<gege>like me "technically"
10:49<gege>i havent got other chance
10:49<gege>but i cry that day:)
10:51<Osai>hello devs, openttd (r11666) desyncs when you prospect an industry. I checked out a new working copy to ensure no changes of the code, because I talked with Rubidium some times but he said it is an revision-number error and he was not able to reproduce the desync locally. We are using newgrfs, maybe this is a problem too.
10:52<Gonozal_VIII>known bug :-)
10:52<Osai>Gonozal_VIII: yes, but actually feel like devs don't trust in us
10:52<Osai>:(
10:53<Osai>at least it sounded like its our own fault because we ran a patched version with ./configure --revision-number=
10:53<Osai>before the current game I did a fresh install
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11:02<+glx>I failed to make it desync
11:04<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> [16:43:12] Bjarni: so did you guys buy all the Christmas presents that you plan to give? <-- yes... as in bought none, plan to give none <-- are you a Muslim or something?
11:05<Gonozal_VIII>no, much worse, i'm a student :-)
11:05<@Bjarni>so it's about poverty, not religion
11:06<@Bjarni>remember that it's the thought that counts
11:06<@Bjarni>I'm a student too and I still plan to give presents to the people I care for
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>aaaaand
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>[16:46:19] Gonozal_VIII: why should i give people presents for somebody else's birthday?
11:07<@Bjarni>tradition
11:07<@Bjarni>besides you will get presents
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>no
11:07<@Bjarni>at least you would if you didn't push people away from you
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>we don't do that
11:08<@Bjarni>are you sure you aren't Muslim?
11:08<Eddi|zuHause3>"how can you tell if you never tried?"
11:09<@Bjarni>or maybe atheistic
11:09<Gonozal_VIII>technically catholic
11:10<@Bjarni>I wasn't asking a technically question :p
11:10<@Bjarni>what does your heart tell you?
11:10|-|DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:10<Gonozal_VIII>it's pumping my blood
11:11<@Bjarni>you are avoiding the subject
11:11<Gonozal_VIII>i don't believe in god or something like that
11:11<@Bjarni>do you believe in human relationships?
11:12<Gonozal_VIII>it's not about relationships, it's about commerce
11:12<Gonozal_VIII>all about the money
11:13|-|SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
11:13<@Bjarni>you could make stuff yourself if you realised what is important
11:13<@Bjarni>so it's not about money
11:14<@Bjarni>money is for buying stuff that you can't make yourself or are too lazy to make yourself
11:14<@Bjarni>you can make a painting and give that one to somebody you care about
11:15<SmatZ>hello
11:15<@Bjarni>this would be a cheap and personal present
11:15<@Bjarni>hi SmatZ
11:15|-|gege [~jo-reggel@static-81-17-185-44.dunaweb.hu] has quit []
11:15<Gonozal_VIII>i can't paint^^
11:15<SmatZ>hello Bjarni
11:15<@Bjarni>SmatZ: are you giving presents at Christmas?
11:15<@Bjarni><Gonozal_VIII> i can't paint^^ <-- then it would be really personal and unique
11:16<SmatZ>Bjarni: yes, on Monday, in the evening
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11:16<@Bjarni>SmatZ: Gonozal_VIII talks about it as a waste of money or something
11:16<@Bjarni>really weird :s
11:17<@Bjarni>giving a good present is a sign that you care for that person so giving no presents would be a sign to everybody that you don't care at all
11:18<@Bjarni>hmm
11:18<@Bjarni>go to the garden and dig up worms and give those as a present. If you give them to the right person he/she will be very happy
11:18<@Bjarni>and go fishing with you ;)
11:19<SmatZ>:-)
11:20<@Bjarni>maybe Gonozal_VIII talks about money to hide the facts that he has no friends and behaves in a way that his family disowned him
11:20<SmatZ>:'-(
11:20<@Bjarni>yeah it's sad
11:21<@Bjarni>some people has nobody to get presents for
11:21<@Bjarni>it's a cruel world
11:21<SmatZ>:-)
11:22[~]Bjarni wonders what the real reason for Gonozal_VIII to be so cruel to his family that they get no presents
11:22<@Bjarni>maybe he ran away from home
11:22<SmatZ>different countries have different customs...
11:23<@Bjarni>I don't consider Austria to be that strange compared to the rest of Europe
11:23<SmatZ>well, Austria... many Austrian people dislike Czech people :-x because of Nuclear powerplant...
11:24<@Bjarni>that's natural
11:24<SmatZ>huh like if that was better if we used coal powerplants instead
11:25<@Bjarni>Sweden built a nuclear powerplant next to Stockholm. They realised that it was too close and closed it. Now they needed more power so they placed one within visual range of Copenhagen
11:25<SmatZ>:-P
11:25<SmatZ>strange
11:25<SmatZ>depends what you call "near"
11:25<Gonozal_VIII>germany has nuclear plants close to our border too but they are much safer
11:26<Gonozal_VIII>temelin has like 1000 malfunctions per year
11:26<SmatZ>yeah, our nuclear plant are not safe, while we have the same/more strict laws
11:26<SmatZ>that happens in every powerplant, none of them are dangerous
11:26<@Bjarni>There was a design flaw in the Swedish plant that nobody wanted to correct (too expensive) and they tried to hide that fact
11:26<@Bjarni>people didn't like that when this news reached the media
11:26<@Bjarni>years after it was discovered
11:27<SmatZ>oh those Swedish :-x
11:27<kyevan>Hey, they can always hide in the banks if the reactor goes critical :P
11:27<Gonozal_VIII>i'm not against nuclear plants but they should build them deep underground or something where they can't spread radioactive dust all over the continent when something goes wrong
11:27<@Bjarni>actually they had informed some guy in Denmark responsible for nuclear safety in Denmark and he hid that fact from the public
11:28<SmatZ>just Aurtia got rid of nuclear powerplants and now they want all other countries to do the same... nothing more, nothing less
11:28<@Bjarni>this guy wanted nuclear in Denmark or something even though the politicians had already banned them
11:28<@Bjarni>we never built any nuclear power plants
11:29<Gonozal_VIII>we built one... after it was ready they asked the people if they should build it...
11:29<@Bjarni>except for a nuclear reactor test centre... for some reason they kept researching even after nuclear reactors were banned
11:31<@Bjarni><SmatZ> huh like if that was better if we used coal powerplants instead <-- we can build those for you and the Austrians will be happy
11:31<SmatZ>Bjarni: thanks, no :-D
11:31<@Bjarni>you see the Danish coal power plants are the most clean and most efficient in the entire world
11:31<Gonozal_VIII>there are lots of deep abandoned mines where you could put the nuclear plants in
11:32<SmatZ>what is dangerous, is building some American "anti-rocket" base in our country... I wonder why people don't demonstrate against this
11:32<Gonozal_VIII>the dangerous thing about those is that they make a nuclear war more likely
11:33<Gonozal_VIII>when the americans think it is safe for them
11:33<@Bjarni>they don't
11:33<@Bjarni>the anti rockets miss the rockets most of the time
11:33<@Bjarni>and they know that
11:33<@Bjarni>so in reality it's not a really secure defence
11:34<@Bjarni>it's like making a firewall on your computer that can only block 100 ports and then it picks 100 random ports to block every sec
11:34<Gonozal_VIII>but they are well known for their decisions based on wrong facts
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11:36<@Bjarni>actually while the Americans tend to do stupid stuff I don't think they will use nuclear weapons unless it's WW3 and the enemy use them
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11:37<Osai>glx: it doesn't desync here locally as well. It might occur only if users with different OSes joined the game
11:37<@Bjarni>if it's just a "normal" situation where somebody hates USA the US voters will not accept it
11:37<@Bjarni>Osai: or different endianess
11:37<@Bjarni>that's more likely than OS itself
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11:46<Osai>Bjarni: you are right
11:46<Gonozal_VIII>explosions outside!!
11:46<SmatZ>explosions?
11:46<Gonozal_VIII>yes, like in boom!
11:47<SmatZ>celebrating a bit early :)
11:47<Gonozal_VIII>yes... earlier then usual
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>in australia a fireworks factory exploded a few weeks ago
11:48<Gonozal_VIII>big boom?
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>they said they might have to cancel the sydney fireworks this year
11:49<Gonozal_VIII>they should just show videos of the factory explosion
11:55<kyevan>That prospecting bug REALLY needs to be fixed...
11:57<SmatZ>kyevan: can you reproduce it?
11:59<kyevan>Yeh, easy.
11:59<kyevan>It happens /every damn time/ you prospect in multiplayer
11:59<kyevan>Everyone desynchs
12:00<SmatZ>kyevan: did you try it?
12:00<SmatZ>I tried to load ottdcoop savegame, run a server from it, join as a client
12:00<SmatZ>prospected maybe 50 industries with no desync
12:01<SmatZ>so I was using the same newgrf, the same version, and it didn't desync
12:01<SmatZ>there must be something else, maybe different endianess
12:01<SmatZ>kyevan: so I am asking again - are YOU able to reproduce it?
12:01<SmatZ>without openttdcoop server
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12:03<kyevan>I hWell
12:03<kyevan>I think I have an idea on how to pull it off
12:03<kyevan>But my mac is in another state at the moment, so :P
12:04<kyevan>I think Osai was working on it, though?
12:05<SmatZ>I don't know
12:11<SmatZ>hmm my girlfriend is ill, now I found out I have elevated temperature, too... I hope it won't be bad Christmass this year :(
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>even more reason to break up ;)
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12:31<SmatZ>:-x
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12:38<Tefad>SmatZ: that happened to me for thanksgiving
12:39<Tefad>i didn't get to see my folks for fear of giving sickness to them
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12:48<kyevan>OH MY GOD TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES
12:48<kyevan>They're not fire proof!
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12:51<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i have a conflict in vehicle.h...
12:51<Craterboy>Is it possible to save in multiplayer and load multiplayer
12:52<kyevan>yes
12:52<@Bjarni>yes
12:52<kyevan>(in before RTFM! :P)
12:52[~]Bjarni wonders why people ask such question without even trying
12:52<Craterboy>tried
12:52<Craterboy>but I wasn't sure
12:53<Craterboy>since the guy who I am playing with is afk
12:53<@Bjarni>save... when starting a new MP game click "load game" or whatever it's called
12:53<Craterboy>tried that, but had no-one to test
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12:53<@Bjarni>the other players has to manually join your newly started game when you load it though
12:54<Craterboy>aha
12:54<Craterboy>so it won't show up on lan list?
12:54<@Bjarni>it will
12:54<@Bjarni>when you load it will be a normal MP game but it starts with companies in it
12:54<Craterboy>aha
12:54<@Bjarni>then people can join their old companies again
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>note that all passwords are lost
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>argh... burning dual layer takes forever...
12:57<Craterboy>yay
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i probably asked this multiple times already: "/home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/misc/blob.hpp:376: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true" <--- i thought these have been fixed
12:58<Craterboy>airport business is a fast way to get rid of loans
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>gcc --version
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>gcc (GCC) 4.1.3 20070724 (prerelease) (SUSE Linux)
13:02<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: this feature is only in gcc 4.2, it was probably packported to 4.1.3 though
13:02<SmatZ>the configure script checks for gcc >= 4.2
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i actually should have gcc 4.2
13:07<@Bjarni><EddizuHause> argh... burning dual layer takes forever... <-- that depends on much much you add to it
13:08<@Bjarni>usually people tend to fill DL discs though and since that's a whole lot of data...
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>well i bought 2.4x discs, because my old burner couldn't handle the faster ones, but then the burner broke
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>the new burner can burn up to 6x i believe
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>but the discs are still slow
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>and filling a DL with 2.4x takes roughly an hour
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>or 45 minutes
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>or something around that
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13:12<@Bjarni>sounds like when I burned CDs at single speed
13:13<@Bjarni>I had a double speed burner and double speed discs but weird tracking errors happened if I tried more than single speed
13:13<@Bjarni>oh well... the burner was cheap (when you consider pricing at that time)
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>i found this burner was cheap
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>it was like 17 euro + shipping
13:14<@Bjarni>way cheaper than my burner
13:14<@Bjarni>but it has been a while
13:15<@Bjarni>it was in 1997 or something
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's an IDE burner, while most are SATA now
13:16<@Bjarni>I told a guy that I thought that the issues with the burner was due to a small cache and he said "the size of the case shouldn't matter"
13:16<@Bjarni>I think it has 256k or something... and no buffer underrun protection
13:17<@Bjarni>I still have the drive... I just don't really use it anymore
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>that can cause problems depending what else you do with the system
13:17<@Bjarni>I also has a dual speed CD-ROM drive... it's great for reading discs with scratches.... it cares way less than modern drives
13:18<@Bjarni>but... I prefer avoiding scratching my discs ;)
13:19<@Bjarni>yeah 256k isn't much. The computer was kind of slow too (100 MHz) and it was an external drive
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13:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, 256k isn't very much, but if you compare it relative to the size of the disk, the modern (cheap) drives don't have that much more
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>hm, openttd still hangs if i generate an arctic map with alpine grf
13:34<Maedhros_>odd; it works fine here
13:34<Maedhros_>Eddi|zuHause: what other grfs have you got loaded?
13:35|-|Maedhros_ changed nick to Maedhros
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>i once tracked it down that the problem disappears if i remove my .cfg
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>other grfs don't matter, i tried without
13:35<Maedhros>hmm
13:35<Maedhros>could you upload your config somewhere please?
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>hm, interesting, i got music all of a sudden ;)
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>should i also attach alpine grf?
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13:45<Maedhros>Eddi|zuHause: i've already got one (AlpineClimate V0.21 18.05.06)
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>-rw-rw-rw- 1 johannes users 402522 18. Mai 2006 /home/johannes/.openttd/data/newgrf/alpinew.grf
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds right
13:49<Maedhros>how odd - the title screen is centred on a different place with your config...
13:49<kyevan>Is the title screen just a normal map, with a bunch of stuff preplaced, or what?
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13:50<Maedhros>it's just a savegame, renamed to opntitle.dat
13:51<kyevan>Hmm, cool
13:51[~]Maedhros slaps himself
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13:51<Maedhros>the title screen is only centred on a different place because of Eddi|zuHause's huge screen resolution settings
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i was about to suggest that
13:53<Maedhros>i can reproduce the hang, at any rate
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>btw, concerning alpine grf, ore does not count as freight, might this be another one of those "set to 0" versus "keep default value" issue?
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>(maybe you remember we had one of those with the BR 05 and loading speed of passengers)
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>(i'm talking alpine together with DBSetXL here)
14:24[~]kyevan glares at the stable version
14:24<kyevan>AH NEEDS MAH PUSSY^WRORO RV STATIONS!
14:27<Craterboy>erm
14:27<Craterboy>how to make airport to accept goods if it's near a factory
14:27<kyevan>It can't.
14:27<Craterboy>oh
14:28<kyevan>Towns accept goods, not factorys :P
14:28<Craterboy>I mean
14:28<Craterboy>make factory store goods in airport
14:28<Craterboy>so a plane can give it to a town
14:28<Craterboy>hmm
14:28<Craterboy>nvm
14:28<Craterboy>takes a while till it accepts it
14:28<kyevan>Is the factory in the catchment? Also, you need to run service first, maybe
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14:51<Wolf01>bah, i hate when i have the road toolbar opened and i press A for auto*... and selects the autorail...
14:53<hylje>a for autorail is magical
14:53<hylje>it pops up the rail builder anyway
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15:22<Craterboy>longer station means faster loading?
15:22<hylje>so long the train fits inside the station
15:22<hylje>its as fast as it can be
15:25<Craterboy>if the station is the half of the train
15:25<Craterboy>means loading is slow?
15:25<hylje>yes
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause>Fahrpreisentwicklung
15:37<Eddi|zuHause> 01.08.1919 20 Pfennig
15:37<Eddi|zuHause> 14.07.1923 1500 Mark
15:37<Eddi|zuHause> 24.11.1923 150 Mrd. Mark
15:37<Eddi|zuHause> 25.11.1923 15 Reichspfenning
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>(prices of one tram ride in Halle)
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>(today: around 1,50€, don't remember the exact price)
15:39<+glx>was a nice inflation
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15:46<Rubidium>Osai: then post everything that 'we' need to know on how to reproduce the desync.
15:46<Rubidium>*if* I cannot reproduce it, I cannot fix it either.
15:46<Osai>I was able to reproduce the desync
15:47<Osai>you need clients with different cpu/OSes
15:49<+glx>that's the problem as we (the devs) don't have different cpu types
15:49<Rubidium>you said it's only with newindustries?
15:49<Osai>nope, I tested it with a new generated game
15:50<SmatZ>what about Bjarni, doesn't he have Mac?
15:50<Osai>yes
15:50<Rubidium>so a game without newgrfs?
15:50<Osai>yes
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15:50<Rubidium>Osai: can you find out since what revision that is?
15:50<+glx>SmatZ: an intel one
15:51<Osai>I could try
15:52<SmatZ>glx: aha
15:52<Osai>Rubidium: can you join 217.235.102.96
15:53<Rubidium>how big is the game?
15:53<Osai>another problem that occurs is: if you 64x128
15:53<Osai>oops
15:53<Osai>64x128
15:53<Osai>just started
15:53<Osai>nothing inside
15:53<Osai>join the company
15:54<Rubidium>hmm, that's going to take a while; need to get a clean checkout of that rev and compile it
15:54<Osai>I could also load the latest nightly if it helps you
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15:55<+glx>if you can compile it :)
15:55<Rubidium>that would be quicker I guess
15:55<Osai>glx: I can, but it takes very long :(
15:55<Rubidium>glx: did I break it?
15:56<+glx>yes, all BE builds failed
15:57<Osai>okay, started with r11673
15:57<Osai>--.-
16:00[~]Osai is trying to compile r11680
16:01<+glx>with a BE cpu?
16:01<Rubidium>you'd better try r11681
16:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11681 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r11674): hopefully fix the compile error on big endian machines.
16:02<Osai>k, trying
16:02<Osai>takes a while
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16:22<+glx>Osai: nice
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16:24<Osai>another interesting thing: if you change the patch setting raw_industry_construction the other clients don't see the change
16:25<Osai>of the value
16:29<Rubidium>Osai: any idea since what revision
16:30<Rubidium>approximately the desync happen between endiannesses?
16:30<Rubidium>I can't find something obviously wrong in the last 70 or so commits
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16:33<Osai>we have problems since r11615 with 100% guarantee
16:33<+glx>and it was ok before?
16:33<Rubidium>but the *same* problem since r11615?
16:34<Osai>we used r11557, r11601 and r11615
16:34<+glx>all with prospection enabled?
16:36<Osai>probably yes, but if we didn't build industries (pax games) or we had enough the problem didn't occur
16:36<@Bjarni><SmatZ> what about Bjarni, doesn't he have Mac? <-- no... I use a C64 for IRC and coding and because I can't compile to test it I just hope that my code works
16:37<@Bjarni>hmm
16:37<Osai>glx, we could simply test with these revisions
16:37<@Bjarni>why did you guys talk about my computer?
16:37<SmatZ>from IRC #openttdcoop logs I can see there were massive desyncs with r1106 too
16:38<SmatZ>Bjarni: commodore 64?
16:38<@Bjarni>yeah
16:38<@Bjarni>r1106 is ancient... are you sure about this number?
16:38<Rubidium>SmatZ: a massive desyncer in r1106 would most likely be fixed by now
16:38<@Bjarni>and is it really useful info
16:38<SmatZ>nice, can you run OTTD too at it?
16:38<SmatZ>Bjarni: Rubidium :-) errrr r11601
16:39<@Bjarni>sure
16:39<+glx>Osai: we can, just tell what version
16:39<@Bjarni>but I don't have a net connection on it
16:39<SmatZ>massive desync ~ (almost) all player desync at one time
16:39<@Bjarni>actually I communicate by saying funny stuff in the phone
16:39<Osai>glx, lets try r11601 first
16:40<+glx>compiling
16:40<SmatZ>I can see one massive desync with 11557 too
16:41<@Bjarni>but since you guys still talk about desyncs I presume that you want me to debug on PPC or something
16:41<+glx>well Osai is on BE :)
16:42<@Bjarni>I know
16:42<@Bjarni>using tiger
16:43[~]Bjarni prepares for tomorrow
16:43<@Bjarni>I finally have a vacation and what do I do?
16:43<@Bjarni>I do what most people would consider work :P
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16:48<Osai>okay, r11601 fails too
16:48[~]Rubidium cannot find something obviously wrong in the last 300 or so revisions
16:48<+glx>and modified settings are not forwarded
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16:50<Osai>Rubidium: when was industry prospecting included into trunk?
16:50<Rubidium>4-6 months or so?
16:50<Osai>uhm :/
16:50|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
16:52<Rubidium>@openttd logs 10451
16:52<Rubidium>@openttd commit 10451
16:52<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r10451 /trunk/src (8 files in 3 dirs) (2007-07-06 07:24:10 UTC)
16:52<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: -Add: support for "prospecting" raw industries, i.e. you pay an amount of money and then it might (with a given chance) build a raw industry somewhere on the map.
16:52<+glx>I introduced a desync in r11305 (fixed in r11356)
16:52<+glx>let's try r10451 :)
16:54<SmatZ>I think there was one problem with prospecting (client was using Random() in the test run), and it has been fixed later
16:55<Osai>glx: compiling r10451 will take a while again
16:55<+glx>SmatZ: there's no test run when prospecting (it is just skiped)
16:56<SmatZ>glx: then I am wrong - maybe it was general placing of industry
16:56<Rubidium>glx: when you set your 'local' configuration for prospecting the same as Osai has on his BE server, does it then desync?
16:56<SmatZ>I don't remember, really
16:57<+glx>Rubidium: I don't understand
16:58[~]Rubidium suspects that a certain variable is not stored in the savegame
16:59<Rubidium>so if you set that variable in openttd.cfg to the same value as on Osai's computer, it should 'work'
16:59<+glx>hmm last try, it was none, then Osai changed it, and I needed to reconnect to get the right one
17:01<Rubidium>oh, never mind... that variable is used a lot longer than for enabling prospecting
17:02<+glx>but the change was not forwarded (at least in r11601)
17:02<+glx>changed using console
17:02<Rubidium>that's odd
17:15<Tefad>http://www.music4games.net/ check out magfest if you get a chance
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17:16<Tefad>there will be openttd at the LAN, i promise : D
17:16<Maedhros>hmm. the order that parameters are evaluated in isn't defined by the C standard, iirc, so might it be that the Randoms in the call to CreateNewIndustryHelper are evaluated in a different order in PowerPC and x86 code?
17:17<Maedhros>or is the desync just caused by the patch setting not being propagated?
17:18<SmatZ>Maedhros: where do you see that?
17:18<Maedhros>SmatZ: industry_cmd.cpp:1615
17:19<SmatZ>Maedhros: nice catch, that may be a problem :-) "operator , " is a serializing operator, but in the function call ", " is not "operator ,"
17:19<+glx>http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/prospect_debug.diff <-- we could try to compare outputs
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17:22<valhallasw>SmatZ: operator! does it commute?
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>nesting functions with side effects into one statement should be avoided...
17:23<SmatZ>valhallasw: errr, sorry?
17:23<Tefad>boolean algebra
17:23<valhallasw>SmatZ: sorry, my quantum mind kicked in :)
17:24<SmatZ>:-)
17:24<valhallasw>Tefad: whats boolean about commutativity?
17:24<Tefad>! is the not operator yes?
17:24<SmatZ>not
17:24<SmatZ>yes
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i need a DBSet with longer passenger wagons
17:25<SmatZ>depends what you call "not" ... ! is "bool" not
17:25<SmatZ>~ is "vector" not
17:25<SmatZ>or how should I call it
17:26|-|divoafx changed nick to divo
17:26<Tefad>! is logical ~ is binary
17:27<valhallasw>bitwise vs logical
17:27<Tefad>!20384 is 0
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>calculus in GF(4294967296) is funny ;)
17:27<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: girlfriend calculis? :P
17:27<valhallasw>calculus*
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>Galois Field, you ignorant :p
17:27<Tefad>~0xFF gets 0x00 with possible leading F's i forget.
17:27<valhallasw>Tefad: depends on the size
17:27<Tefad>depends. yeah
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>Tefad: depends if 0xFF is sign-extended first
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>0xFF can be extended to 0xFFFFFFFF (signed) or to 0x000000FF (unsigned)
17:29<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: I am trying hard to avoid algebra classes
17:29<valhallasw>linear algebra is worse enough :D
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>galois fields are the finite fields of order p^n, with p being a prime number
17:30<Tefad>see what i meant ; )
17:30<Tefad>i've had to deal with this crap when programming binary adders using 7400 chips
17:30<SmatZ>hmm I didn't know it has to be p^n
17:30<Tefad>yay carry flags. hilarity ensues.
17:30<SmatZ>:-)
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>the galois field with 256 elements is used in the AES algorithm (symmetric encryption)
17:32<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: ah, the finite field of integers modulo p. I see
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>the funny thing about p=2, that you end up with bitfields, where the addition is bitwise xor
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>but the multiplication is a totally "weird" shuffling around of bits
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>valhallasw: it has not much to do with integers, when you get to n>1
17:33<valhallasw>hrmmm
17:33<valhallasw>wait
17:36<valhallasw>I can follow wikipedia on GF(2) and GF(3), but GF(4) fails for me :P
17:36<valhallasw>(the examples section)
17:37<valhallasw>or... are those just *defenitions* of a field?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>4=2^2, so you have a 2-bit vector
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>addition is bitwise xor
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>so (1,0)+(1,1) = (0,1)
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>multiplication is the group with 3 elements
17:38<valhallasw>1+B=(1,0)+(1,1)=(0,1)=A?
17:38<valhallasw>right
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say 1=(1,1)
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>which article are you reading?
17:39<valhallasw>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galois_field
17:39<valhallasw>down at Some small finite fields
17:39<@Bjarni>lol
17:39<@Bjarni>"Its German not finnish stupids -_-" <-- said about some Finnish speech
17:39<valhallasw>xD
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: i read something like that a while ago
17:45<@Bjarni>heh
17:45<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mdMb6bRXt4 <-- you can judge for yourself if you like
17:45<valhallasw>xD
17:46<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: but GF(5).. would be what? just N mod 5?
17:46<Tefad>is that spoken or scat?
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>valhallasw: yes
17:46<@Bjarni>Tefad: most of it is nonsense even in Finnish
17:46<valhallasw>and GF(25) would be a vector of two mod 5 ints?
17:47<@Bjarni>it's about rhythm and stuff not the words themselves
17:47<Tefad>so scat using words
17:47<@Bjarni>most of them aren't even real words
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you could probably describe it like that, but Z^2 mod 5 does not give you a multiplication
17:48<Tefad>kind of like supercalifragilisticexpealidocious
17:48<@Bjarni>err
17:48<Tefad>also, i spelled that right the first try.. at least according to the google.
17:48[~]Bjarni wonders how to make a good rhythm with supercalifragilisticexpealidocious
17:48<Tefad>certainly you've heard the song?
17:49<@Bjarni>sure
17:49<@Bjarni>and if I forget it all it takes is to go get the DVD
17:49<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: as in 'impossible to define' or 'no standard solution'?
17:49<@Bjarni>but I might have to ask my sister where it is :/
17:49<Tefad>those field patterns remind me of pascal's triangle a bit
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>as in "Z^2 does not have multiplication, so Z^2 mod 5 does not imply one"
17:50<valhallasw>ah
17:51<valhallasw>maybe I should do algebra classes
17:54<Tefad>Jatsu tsappari dikkari dallan / tittari tillan titstan dullaa, / dipidapi dallaa ruppati rupiran / kurikan kukka ja kirikan kuu. / Ratsatsaa ja ripidabi dilla / beritstan dillan dellan doo. / A baribbattaa baribbariiba / ribiribi distan dellan doo. / Ja barillas dillan deia dooa / daba daba daba daba daba duvja vuu. / Baristal dillas dillan duu ba daga / daiga daida duu duu deiga dou.
17:55<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbbA9BhCTko <-- wow... it actually sounds pretty good on voice synth software
17:55<@Bjarni>same song
17:55<@Bjarni>but computer generated singing
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>stop with that song already! :p
17:56<@Bjarni>why
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>it was hard enough to get Sacro down the first time :p
17:56<@Bjarni>does it contain offensive German words? :)
17:56<@Bjarni>ohh
17:57<Wolf01>what is the right order with the transfer system?
17:57<Wolf01>A = transfer and leave empty -> B = transfer and take cargo or load directly?
17:57<@Bjarni>hahaha... the video response to the last link is.... different :)
17:58<valhallasw>xD
17:59<@Bjarni>too bad I stopped playing fighting games years ago
18:00<@Bjarni>I was unbeatable in Street fighter. Didn't play it much though but I was still able to beat everybody
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>i usually only use transfer in train A
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>train B can just use load
18:00<Tefad>did someone say A-Train
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>i also have no idea why we have orders other than "transfer and leave empty" or what they are useful for
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>what is an A-Train in your world, Tefad?
18:02<Wolf01>maybe they were intended for bi-directional transfer, which doesn't work at all
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause>next step for transfer is passenger/cargo destinations and pathfinding
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>is there a lightweight pcx editor for linux?
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>(meaning less clumsy than gimp)
18:10<Maedhros>not that i know of (i'm assuming the gimp doesn't count as lightweight)
18:10<Maedhros>heh
18:10<valhallasw>paint.net has been ported to mono iirc
18:11<valhallasw>http://code.google.com/p/paint-mono/
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>i'll see what the repository sais about image editing software...
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>says?
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>i never remember...
18:22<Maedhros>yeah, it's "says", if you were talking about the spelling :)
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>but it is said
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>it's a totally weird language
18:23<Maedhros>true, true :)
18:24<SpComb>sez
18:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11682 /trunk/src/ (79 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move some 'generic' geometry related types into a single file and do not include gfx.h everywhere to get a Point type.
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause>hm... there is kolourpaint... maybe i should try that one
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18:50<pavel1269>gn
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18:52<valhalla1w>TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000] <-- I am fucking something up -_-
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18:59<Tefad>there's also the vector drawing program, xfig
18:59<Tefad>export to PDF iirc
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19:05<Tefad>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3uEuUVk4lE haven't seen this one before (polka)
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19:09<Eddi|zuHause>valhalla1w: i suspect infinite recursion
19:10<valhalla1w>Eddi|zuHause: yes.. a footnote got stuck into an image caption
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19:11<skidd13>Anyone knows where I can get those canals? -> http://ttd.tycoonez.com/img/art/vyvoj/csrailset/csrailset2.png
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19:33<@Bjarni>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8437344189722462732 <--- wow... hackers really attack everything
19:33<@Bjarni>even places you didn't even think about
19:33<@Bjarni>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8121360771605659258 <-- here too
19:34<@Bjarni>all Dutch but just the image without sounds gives a good impression of what goes on
19:36<skidd13>Wooo
19:36<skidd13>Chaos days are coming
19:36<@Bjarni>I think they will add security now
19:37<@Bjarni>otherwise the signs will end up saying 250 when some geek wants to drive really fast
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19:38<@Bjarni>I think the most surprising one is the TV station
19:38<skidd13>yeah
19:38<@Bjarni>not only do they have an open network to the stuff they read they also read what it says nomatter how odd it is
19:40<@Bjarni>we have two major TV stations here. I'm pretty sure one of them would stop reading the signs and say "something went wrong in the computer" and revert to improvising because the readers actually knows what they are supposed to say (this actually happened)
19:40<@Bjarni>the other station did really poor when the text printing computer crashed
19:40<@Bjarni>but at least they realised that the computer had a problem
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19:44<SmatZ>I really wonder why they show their faces in the video
19:44<@Bjarni>me too
19:44<skidd13>SmatZ: It's a hacker not a cracker
19:44<@Bjarni>but then again he is the king
19:44<@Bjarni>people should now the king
19:44<@Bjarni>and we know that he is the king... the signs says so
19:44<SmatZ>if the king won't be busted when police finds him
19:44<skidd13>Hackers want things to be fixed. Crackers want to missuse things for their own purpose
19:45<@Bjarni>and it's an official sign placed by the government
19:45<SmatZ>skidd13: aren't they doing something illegal anyway?
19:45<skidd13>SmatZ: Sure but the motivation behind is different
19:45<SmatZ>I am afraid the law doesn't see the difference
19:46<@Bjarni>that depends on the judge
19:46<@Bjarni>besides he wrote 5 instead of 50
19:46<@Bjarni>if it went the other way...
19:46<@Bjarni>that makes a difference to the law
19:46<skidd13>SmatZ: The companys may want to know what is wrong whith their system and are able to ask him.
19:47<SmatZ>sometimes are things just absolutelly unsafe - using weak passwords, no ecryption at all, etc...
19:48<SmatZ>like the Slovakian National security agency used some really weak passwords like "nbusr123" or so...
19:49<SmatZ>http://www.viruslist.com/en/news?id=185376772
19:49<SmatZ>The attackers claim that network administrators employed the username “nbusr” and password “nbusr123”
19:51<SmatZ>or with Skype - the data are encrypted, but there are roughly tens or hundreds of keys (I just heard that, may be false)
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20:30<Wolf01>'night
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20:33<@Bjarni>talk about weak passwords. Somebody told that British Telecom once had "btc" or something like that as the password on their wifi
20:33<@Bjarni>so you could sit in a cafe on the other side of the street or something and browse their LAN and use their net connection
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21:59<kyevan>Hmmm
22:00<kyevan>Someone should set i tup so that you can rig the in-game music player controls to a real player, through dcop or something
22:01<BigBB>maybe you stop the ingame player and load the mid files in the real player for full control? no, thats to easy...
22:02<kyevan>BigBB: Yes, that's especialy too easy when you decide to run it in full screen.
22:02<kyevan>>_>
22:02<kyevan>I'm actually playing high-quality renders in vlc, but I want to play fullscreen, and if I have to be able to jump over, really can't do that.
22:03<BigBB>and? you can run OTTP fullscrean and control your player (like vlc) seperatly
22:03<kyevan>RIght, except, HOW DO YOU GET TO THOSE CONTROLS?
22:03[~]kyevan rolls his eyes
22:04<kyevan>Well, one way is to run on linux and run vlc with one of the crazy terminal interfaces on a terminal, and have ottd take over x, but anyway.
22:04<BigBB>for me?, I use the Logitech extra media buttons, on Windows with logitech drivers and on linux with the distributation related drivers...
22:07<BigBB>if you haven't media keys (and the driver for that) you can define a hot key for that ...
22:08<BigBB>you must only undifine (if necessary) this combination in (e.g.) KDE.
22:09<BigBB>How I say: Easy or?
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23:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11683 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Fix(r11682): win32.cpp still requires gfx.h inclusion, at least for now.
---Logclosed Sun Dec 23 00:00:31 2007