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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-12-30

---Logopened Sun Dec 30 00:00:57 2007
01:26<pv2b>i've got a first version of the new company value calculator thingy here. i've only gotten so far as that it compiles without incident. i ahven't actually even launched a binary with it yet. i'll do it tomorrow. going to bed now.
01:27<pv2b>in the meantime, i'd really appreciate if somebody at least kinda conversant with the openttd economy code could take a look at my patch http://www.pvz.pp.se/stuff/new_company_value_calc.diff and see if i've made any stylistic faux pas that should be fixed before i submit it
01:27<pv2b>(besides actually checking whether it works of course.)
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04:15<laz0r>hi, how would i get the music in openttd to play?
04:15<laz0r>do i need some special data file?
04:16<roboboy>where did you get your TTD data files from?
04:16<laz0r>im just trying the things i found in the wiki
04:17<laz0r>i got them from an old ttd cd
04:17<roboboy>ok
04:17<roboboy>DOS or WIN?
04:18<laz0r>win i think
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04:45<roboboy>move the fm folder into your data folder
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05:02<laz0r>currently the problem is that all songs are played through very fast
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05:02<laz0r>i cant hear anything, just the names appear one after another
05:02<laz0r>i think it might be a linux midi issue
05:02<Rubidium_>have you installed timidity?
05:02<laz0r>so, now im trying to get midi going, which means i have to load a soundfont into my sblive!
05:03<laz0r>not yet
05:03<Rubidium_>then midi (i.e. music) won't work under linux
05:04<laz0r>my soundcard has a hardware midi renderer thing
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05:04<laz0r>but i guess i could use timidity as well
05:04<Rubidium_>well, OpenTTD needs some external tool to play midis
05:04<Rubidium_>and that's timidity by default
05:04<Rubidium_>and I have absolutely no idea how to configure another tool to play the correct midis
05:05<laz0r>if i just load the .gm files with kmid, it plays them
05:05<laz0r>but i cant hear anything
05:06<Rubidium_>if it skips quickly over the music in OpenTTD, then it misses the external tool to play the music
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05:19<laz0r>now kmid can play the .gm files
05:19<laz0r>after i load a soundfont
05:20<laz0r>i also installed timitidy, tried running it as daemon
05:20<laz0r>but openttd still skips through the song list
05:20<Rubidium_>I think it should not be a daemon, but I'm not sure at all
05:20<laz0r>mmh
05:21<laz0r>i just run kmid in together with openttd
05:21<laz0r>not the greatest solution, but a solution
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05:27<pavel1269>hi
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05:37<peter__>hello ludde
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05:59<ludde>hi peter__
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06:12[~]LA[lord] is away now
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06:27<Wolf01>hello
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07:20<Olsson>Could anything like Open TTD be done to any other tycoon games like RCT?
07:20<Olsson>If the code where open source or something.
07:23<Vikthor>Olsson: Of course it could, but you have to find somebody dedicated enough to start it, like ludde did
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07:24<Vikthor>But I doubt anybody who is skilled enough to do it and realizes what huge task it is is going to do it
07:25<peter__>if it was open source then it would be a lot less work
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07:32<Olsson>Oh I see
07:33<Olsson>so it's possible without the source code
07:35<Olsson>There are so many good strategy games out there that could have been better with only small fixes. Things that seems small anyhow. I can understand what hard work it though..
07:38<Olsson>It is*.. Games like Ceasar 3, RCT.. if someone just could remove the building limits and add some more larger maps. Would have been like a dream come true for us building fanatics.. hehe
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07:54<Olsson>are there any other project like Open TTD out there?
07:55<Eddi|zuHause2>depends on your definition of "like"
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07:58<Wolf01>there is a grfset, maybe newstations, which is like industrial stations but without tracks?
07:59<Ammler>Wolf01: the new one
07:59<Wolf01>i have it, but seem that is not very complete
07:59<Ammler>industrie renewal or something like that, a beta was released
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08:00<Wolf01>seem a mix between industrial stations and harbours
08:00<Olsson>My english is far from great like you may have notice.. But strategy-games that are being modified by fans or perheps even new building games done by fans?
08:00<Ammler>last time I was watching the thread, maedros was looking for a follower
08:00<Wolf01>Olsson, i know there is a command&conquer clone, really good, but seem to be a dead project
08:02<Olsson>Oh, too bad.. Maybe I should check it out anyway though. Thanks for the tips. Oh if anybody else know any active-projects please tell =)
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08:03<Olsson>Open TTD sounds really like a great project. The problem is that I never stuck to that game though.. I have played it to little so I should probally give it another chance.
08:04<Olsson>Maybe Open TTD is kinda unique?
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08:14<Olsson>If someone would do a patch instead of a clone of a game like for example RCT, would that be alot easier or would it still be really hard to do?
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08:14<Alberth>Olsson: a patch against what then?
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08:26<Ammler>Olsson: TTD has both :P
08:35|-|LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
08:36<LordAzamath>hey
08:38<Alberth>LordAzamath: yeh?
08:38<LordAzamath>hmm...yeh is reversed to hey..:P
08:39<LordAzamath>just wanted to know is here anything going on..
08:39<LordAzamath>so,is there something going on?
08:39<LordAzamath>:)
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08:42<Alberth>LordAzamath: In my head I have your name connected to a better than nfo language, would that be correct?
08:47<Alberth>(Found it, it was: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=34762). Based on that thread I started building something, I just posted the first version at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=35535 maybe you are intested?
08:47<Alberth></shameless self promotion off>
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09:02<Olsson>Alberth: I mean like doing a patch for RCT instead of trying to do a clone like Open TTd
09:08<ln->I'm forced to conclude that Cardassians are Germans and Bajorans are Jews.
09:08<roboboy>gnight
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09:12<Alberth>Olsson: A patch is a set of differences between 2 versions of a program. You use it because it is generally smaller than the entire source, and it is easier to check what has changed exactly.
09:13<Alberth>Olsson: We don't write patches, we generate them after modifying the source locally. Ie you need to have a source of some form first before you can make patches.
09:14<Alberth>Olsson: (unless you want to modify the RCT binary directly, of course :) )
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09:24<Olsson>Ohh. Didn't think of it that way.. hmm but at the end it is the patch who changes the code if i got it right?
09:26<Olsson>You write a patch that modifiys the source I mean
09:26<Olsson>Are you a Open TTD programmer btw? :)
09:26<hylje>we are a single hiveminded creature working on improving ottd
09:31<Alberth>Normal procedure is to make a local copy of the source code, and hack the change that I want. Then I generate a patch file (containing the changes between the source as I downloaded it to what I have after hacking) to communicate to the devs the change I propose. When they accept the change, they apply the patch to the 'real' source where the nightlys and the releases are built from.
09:31<qball>hylje: I thought we are plotting to take over the world..
09:32<pavel1269>:))
09:33<hylje>qball: shh
09:34<Alberth>With respect to the 2nd question, I just started programming in the OTTD project, I have been programming for about 25 years though.
09:34<Alberth>hylje: your single hiveminded infrastructure seems to have a few bugs...
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09:35<qball>now slap me silly, he has been coding for 25 years
09:35<hylje>Alberth: synchronization is no easy business
09:35[~]qball wants more pointless info
09:35[~]LordAzamath slaps qball
09:36<qball>LordAzamath: harder
09:36[~]LordAzamath slaps qball harder
09:36<LordAzamath>:D
09:36[~]qball again, but a bit to the right
09:36<LordAzamath>naa
09:38<qball>*grrmblll* liboil is still causing crashes
09:38<qball>why can't they correctly vectorize it.
09:38<LordAzamath>for all of you who don't know, Zephyris made another post, which includes grfs for 8bpp graphics replacement
09:39<LordAzamath>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35310&p=651615#p651712
09:39<qball>would be cool if they are allreplaced
09:39<qball>now if we move to 32bit too
09:40<LordAzamath>Well, 32bpp goes forward too
09:41<LordAzamath>Wacki and Ben_Robbins_ are modeling
09:41<qball>it was moving 3 years ago too
09:41<LordAzamath>I have done few thigs too..
09:41<LordAzamath>Yes, but now you actually can play with it
09:41<qball>I played it 3 years too
09:42<qball>there was a patch to run 32bit openttd
09:42<qball>actually 2-3 patches
09:42<qball>ut the images on th forums look great
09:42<LordAzamath>you can do it now too..it'sin trunk
09:42<qball>and there should be alot now
09:43<LordAzamath>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars
09:43<qball>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=83222 <-- just so nice
09:43<LordAzamath>depends what is alot
09:43<qball>I've seen on the forum more then is on the wiki
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09:43<LordAzamath>but the format was changed...inAugust?
09:44<qball>didn't know
09:44<LordAzamath>so there is a hell lot work to do more
09:44<LordAzamath>but now it's in trunk
09:44<LordAzamath>but extra zooms are eliminated
09:44<qball>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=83106 <-- nice looking
09:45<LordAzamath>BUT I heard thatGeekToo is working on a patch that allows those agian w/o any problems
09:45<qball>I wish I had time to help
09:45<qball>but no luck there
09:45<LordAzamath>what about y power plant :D
09:45<LordAzamath>my*
09:45<qball>url?
09:45<LordAzamath>or transmitter, or tropical bank
09:46<LordAzamath>I gave you the wiki link
09:46<qball>aah
09:46<LordAzamath>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars
09:46<qball>wacki is still doing some very fancy stuff
09:46<LordAzamath>yes!
09:46<Olsson>Alberth: Interesting. Thanks for your detailed answers :)
09:48<qball>now if there was some good days to fix time in the game.. in Real life stations can easily have 700 trains/day.. in openttd it takes a train 3 days to just enter the station
09:50<LordAzamath>try daylenght patch
09:51[~]Sacro 's daylength patch!
09:51<qball>can I have a normal 18 track station with 700 trains leaving a day
09:52<LordAzamath>hmm, I now relised I'm logged in twice..LA(lord) is in too. I prbably forgot to logout after I left home
09:53<LordAzamath>qball, don't know, 700 trains can be difficult
09:53<LordAzamath>btw how many trains do you have on your games usually anyway
09:53<qball>bah, how can I build a replica of my local station
09:54<qball>depends.. between 125-400
09:54<LordAzamath>this is a transportation game not simulator..!
09:54<+glx>LordAzamath: I can kick you rghost if you want :)
09:54<qball>I know
09:54<qball>but 3 days to enter a station :-/
09:54<LordAzamath>don't kick LA(lord), I have the conversation saved there when I return
09:55<LordAzamath>I'm actually in my neighbours apartment right now, "watching" her son
09:56<LordAzamath>so not very far away
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09:58<pavel1269>Sacro: whats difference between your Daylength patch and chrisicom ones?
09:59<Wolf01>sacro's is one line of code
10:00<pavel1269>hehe :)
10:00<LordAzamath>and chrisicom's?
10:00<pavel1269>and what does it do?
10:01<pavel1269>it slows down everything?
10:01<pavel1269>not just time like chrisicom's?
10:02<LordAzamath>but slow motion isn't good, is it?
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10:02<Wolf01>chrissicom's is based on my patch, which handles all the things: vehicles running cost, economy, industry production...
10:03<Wolf01>and the legnth is configurable
10:03<pavel1269>i hate when for example mine have 5000tons/month i don't know then if good/poor :)
10:04<pavel1269>Wolf01: and your daylength patch? it's the same?
10:04<Wolf01>read 2 lines above ;)
10:06<pavel1269>same :)
10:06|-|murray_ changed nick to murray
10:07<pavel1269>anyone here understand in-game sprites? :)
10:09<DaleStan>"understand"?
10:10<LordAzamath>depends what you mean pavel..
10:10<pavel1269>i want to use same others signals ..
10:10<pavel1269>they are at openttdw.grf
10:11<pavel1269>but ... i dont understand work with sprites atm :-/
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10:11<+glx>use an action 05 newgrf for signals
10:12<pavel1269>i have 4. type os signal :)
10:12<pavel1269>*of
10:13<pavel1269>and i found some unused signals in-game but by mistake and i dont know how to draw them atm
10:13<DaleStan>Normal, entrance sig, exit sig and combo-sig, right? And no semaphores?
10:14<pavel1269>no, programmable
10:14<pavel1269>http://pavelg.wz.cz/ottd/lol/wtf.png
10:15<pavel1269>rail_cmd.cpp line 1429 i hope, there is how signals are drawn :X
10:15<pavel1269>hard to describe waht i want :-/
10:15<pavel1269>*what
10:19<+glx>PBS signal
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10:20<LordAzamath>I think that there is no need to draw all new houses for 88bpp gfx replacement.. So what building set would you suggest guys.. I'm thinking of ttrs, but you?
10:20<skidd13>Hi folks
10:20<LordAzamath>hi skidd13
10:21<pavel1269>glx: so that not drawn-signals are PBS ones?
10:21<+glx>yes
10:21<pavel1269>no-other signals? :/
10:22<LordAzamath>ofcourse pavel, you can make a patch which implements PBS, then those signals would be in use again :D
10:22<pavel1269>so if i want graphic for my new signal, i must create support for them? :(
10:22<pavel1269>LordAzamath: atm i am working on programmable signal
10:23<LordAzamath>:)
10:23[~]qball wants pbs
10:23<LordAzamath>but anyone to answer my question?
10:24<qball>so I can rule openttd once again
10:24<pavel1269>what ":)" does mean? :P
10:24[~]LordAzamath thinks that after pavel has completed prog signals, he will take PBS as next one
10:25<LordAzamath>:)
10:25<pavel1269>i am missing just GUI and graphic :)
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10:25<dih>hi :-)
10:25<LordAzamath>hey dih
10:26<pavel1269>hi
10:26<pavel1269>btw "16:24 * LordAzamath thinks that after pavel has completed prog signals, he will take PBS as next one" --- I or you will take that PBS? :))
10:26<LordAzamath>pavel if you say what do you want I can draw them to you, but I'm not at home, so somewhere later
10:27<LordAzamath>I'm artist and player, not coder
10:27<LordAzamath>I even can't get along with php
10:27<pavel1269>i don't think i can handle this
10:27<pavel1269>*that :)
10:28<LordAzamath>hmm..I can go home at 40mins approx :)
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10:29<pavel1269>draw graphic .. that's cool, but i need number of them in game so i could draw them :P
10:29<LordAzamath>hmm..don't get it..
10:29<LordAzamath>so you HAVE sprites?
10:30<pavel1269>i dont have anything where sound sth like "srpite" "draw" :)
10:31<LordAzamath>so you lack sprites (in grf) and code how to draw them in-game?
10:31<pavel1269>ye
10:31<LordAzamath>then I can't help you..:(
10:31<pavel1269>only thing which will help me atm is some SpriteID to draw, that i can handle :P
10:34<LordAzamath>something to do with this?
10:34<LordAzamath>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action5
10:36<pavel1269>me + graphic == 0
10:36<pavel1269>:)
10:36<pavel1269> but i am thinking about reworking that
10:36<pavel1269>and make it simple like in TTDP ... every signal should be programmed?
10:39|-|tokai [~tokai@p54B82A0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
10:40[~]LordAzamath didn't get any answer about possible replacements for town buildings :(
10:40<pavel1269>you mean that about 88bpp? :D
10:41<pavel1269>i thought best now is 32bpp
10:41<LordAzamath>yes!
10:41<LordAzamath>I meant 8bpp
10:41<Rubidium_>actually 40bpp :O
10:41<LordAzamath>If that makes you answer...
10:42<Rubidium_>but with all the magic you'll only see 24bpp
10:42<pavel1269>LordAzamath: i say, redraw
10:42<LordAzamath>how come 40 bpp?
10:42<LordAzamath>all houses?
10:42<pavel1269>yup
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10:43<LordAzamath>but I can't bother Zephyris too much because he has done so much by himself too
10:43<LordAzamath>And myslef, well I could try...
10:43<Rubidium_>LordAzamath: 24 bits colours + 8 bits alpha channel + 8 bits remapping for company colours
10:44<pavel1269>8bits for company colors ...
10:44<hylje>beta channel :)
10:44<pavel1269>will be possible in MP 2^8 companies? :P
10:44|-|Olsson [~retrogame@90-227-24-125-no68.tbcn.telia.com] has quit []
10:44<hylje>pavel1269: i think its for different hues of the company colors
10:45[~]pavel1269 really dont understand anything about graphic :)
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10:45<LordAzamath>well, 8 different colours, each one has 8 shades from light to dark
10:45<pavel1269>and 8shades to oher colors? :P
10:46<LordAzamath>represented in ttd palette by bleu colours and remapped
10:46<pavel1269>*4
10:47<LordAzamath>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35524#p651611
10:47<pavel1269>8colors and 8shades = 6bits :)
10:47<LordAzamath>8*8=64 -> 64/8=8
10:47<LordAzamath>8bits
10:48<pavel1269>you need 8*8 combinations which is 2^6 :)
10:48<LordAzamath>well...am...
10:48<LordAzamath>oh I got it now
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10:49<pavel1269>:)
10:49<LordAzamath>the whole 8bpp palette is supported by 32bpp blitter
10:49<LordAzamath>so 32bpp + default
10:49<LordAzamath>=40bpp
10:50<Gonozal_VIII>?
10:50<Gonozal_VIII>isn't 8bpp palette a part of the 32bpp palette?
10:50<LordAzamath>can't be
10:51<LordAzamath>e.g 0000ff ->blue
10:51<LordAzamath>has to be defined twice
10:51<LordAzamath>when you have it in 32bpp images, it would be blue
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10:51<LordAzamath>with remapping it should be transparetn
10:52<LordAzamath>like 1098.png is default 32bpp and 1098m.png is for remapping
10:52<LordAzamath>for example
10:52<pavel1269>whts he talking about :D
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10:53<LordAzamath>1098 is applied woth std 32bpp and 1098m.png is applied with 8bpp palette
10:53<LordAzamath>I'm not clear expressing myself I know pavel
10:53<LordAzamath>:D
10:54<Gonozal_VIII>well, i don't know the 32bpp palette...
10:54<LordAzamath>32bpp isn't indexed
10:54<LordAzamath>ok I gotta go
10:54|-|LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
10:55<pavel1269>O_o
10:55<Gonozal_VIII>how do action colours work then :S
10:55<pavel1269>ask lord :)
10:56<LA[lord]>yes ask me
10:57<Gonozal_VIII>no, you're not here
10:57<pavel1269>:D that's right, you are not here :D
10:57<LA[lord]>then where am I
10:57<Gonozal_VIII>you left
10:57<LA[lord]>yes, I'm at my home now
10:57<Gonozal_VIII>had to go
10:57<LA[lord]>at MY cpu
10:58<LA[lord]>I was in my neighbours' just
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11:00<LA[lord]>gonozal_viii, if you have 32bpp image, with what you want action colours, you have to remap it
11:00<LA[lord]>with same-named image, ending with m
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>that uses the same action colours as 8bpp?
11:01<LA[lord]>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20879&sid=5b5836cfe17ff5095b5a87850acb337a
11:01<LA[lord]>look for remapping
11:01<LA[lord]>no actually don't look ther
11:02<LA[lord]>e
11:02<Gonozal_VIII>good idea
11:02<LA[lord]>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars
11:02<LA[lord]>geektoo's hereford bus
11:03<Gonozal_VIII>i'll just stop thinking about it :D
11:03<LA[lord]>good idea
11:03<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that works fine
11:03<pavel1269>:)
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11:03<LA[lord]>it has company colours remapped..., but you won't think of it anymore :D
11:04<Gonozal_VIII>think of what?
11:04<Gonozal_VIII>^^
11:04<LA[lord]>no..nothinh
11:04<LA[lord]>:P
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11:19<LA[lord]>ok, time for another alien blood :D
11:19<LA[lord]>http://www.hot.ee/madisaasmae/depot.png
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11:22<LA[lord]>well?
11:22<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm lighting is odd
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11:23<LA[lord]>hehe
11:24<Gonozal_VIII>the roof... sun is parallel lighting, the roof is parallel... should have same light everywhere
11:27<Gonozal_VIII>doors would be nice :-)
11:27<LA[lord]>it's road depot
11:27<Gonozal_VIII>that open when a vehicle wants to enter or leave
11:28<LA[lord]>that needs extra code
11:28<LA[lord]>I think
11:28<Gonozal_VIII>i think somebody did that once
11:28<Noldo>does anyone k
11:28<Noldo>arrr
11:28<Gonozal_VIII>does anyone karrr?
11:29<LA[lord]>does not parse
11:29<Noldo>managed to tab in to wrong window
11:29<Noldo>then tried to run the last command on the one I thought I was in
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11:31<Gonozal_VIII>would be very nice to have two doors and when a vehicle enters or leaves, one of the doors opens to let it through :-)
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11:43<murray>http://www.underground-gamer.com/imagebucket/1331og9.jpg
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11:47<Wolf01>lol
11:48<Eddi|zuHause2>move all zig!
11:49<Gonozal_VIII>at night it's colder than outside
11:54[~]murray whistles to Sawyer's Tune
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12:09<LA[lord]>one question...why is "SAC's stolen trees" named "stolen"?
12:09<pavel1269>maybye they're stolen from somewhere :)
12:10<LA[lord]>yes, but I don't want it
12:10<LA[lord]>I want them to be not stolen :D
12:11<Gonozal_VIII>give them back :P
12:11<LA[lord]>to who?
12:11<Gonozal_VIII>sac
12:12<LA[lord]>hmm...I just read, Graphics by SAC, coded by Aegir, who has no shame
12:12<pavel1269>:)
12:12<LA[lord]>but what does SAC think of this?
12:12<LA[lord]>if they are stolen from him
12:12<pavel1269>well, that trees just rock
12:13<pavel1269>i think he stole them from some game
12:13<Gonozal_VIII>wood, not rock
12:13<SpComb>LA[lord]: her
12:13<pavel1269>hehe
12:13<pavel1269>:)
12:13<LA[lord]>oh..
12:14<Gonozal_VIII>must be fake, there are no females on the intarweb
12:14<SpComb><oblig xkcd reference>
12:14<hylje><oblig tits demand>
12:15<SpComb><confused repeat of xkcd reference>
12:15[~]pavel1269 wonders what's happening to this channel
12:16<SpComb>high-level humour
12:16[~]pavel1269 is almost happy, that he doesn't speak english good enought to understand that
12:17[~]qball cought in a recursion
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12:23<alexboom>hi all
12:23<LA[lord]>aanyway, I just read a topic of INFRA landscape, and found out that SAC left, so it's not good
12:23<LA[lord]>which means that those beautiful trees have to be redrawn
12:24<Gonozal_VIII>i drew some trees.. wanted to make an austrian treeset
12:25<alexboom>err would anyone be so kind to help me to solve my problem with tram/truck newgrf incompatibility?
12:25<alexboom>i'm using the long vehicle set, but i'm unable to get trucks if i take a tram set
12:26<alexboom>i'd love using the generic tramset, but the operation costs are set too high to make any benefits
12:26<pavel1269>have you tryed to change their place at newgrf window to each other?
12:26<pavel1269>sometimes it helsp :)
12:26<pavel1269>*helps
12:27<alexboom>yep, either the trams disappear, or the truck disappear, or the whole long vehicle set is disabled
12:27<Gonozal_VIII>yes, lv4 changes costs for all rvs
12:27<alexboom>ah, the german tramset seems to work correctly with trucks
12:28<Gonozal_VIII>serbian trams work fine
12:30<alexboom>and could anyone explain me why the generic tramset is so expensive to use?
12:30<Gonozal_VIII>[18:27:41] Gonozal_VIII: yes, lv4 changes costs for all rvs
12:30<Gonozal_VIII>that's why
12:32<Noldo>the current trunk seems to assert right after starting
12:33<alexboom>ak thanks Gonozal_VIII i did not understand the "lv4" thingy the first time :p
12:33<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
12:34<Gonozal_VIII>it disables all other rvs and changes the cost multiplier
12:35<pavel1269>:)
12:35<pavel1269>i don't like much sets which changes "wholeù game settings
12:35<Gonozal_VIII>so rv grfs before that in the list won't be used and after that will be more expensive than intended
12:35<pavel1269>*whole
12:35<alexboom>so err which rv set is the best according to you???
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12:36<Gonozal_VIII>i use rv4 and serbian trams
12:36<pavel1269>i use in-game rv and CStrams :)
12:37<pavel1269>anyone ... http://ttd.tycoonez.com/?id=120&lang=en if interested ;)
12:38|-|XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd
12:38<LA[lord]>aarggh..I need skidd :(
12:40<Gonozal_VIII>how much do you pay?
12:40<alexboom>thanks a lot for your help
12:40<Gonozal_VIII>i'll see if i have some skidds here
12:41<alexboom>bye bye!
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12:41<Gonozal_VIII>could offer you a skidd11 as good as new
12:41<LA[lord]>gonozal, I need a specific kind of skidd
12:42<LA[lord]>I think 13 fits better
12:42<Gonozal_VIII>oh model #13... they hardly build them anymore
12:42<LA[lord]>what about special edition?
12:42<LA[lord]>for me
12:43<pavel1269>you? no :)
12:43<LA[lord]>why?
12:44<Gonozal_VIII>after there were some severe problems with that model it's illegal now in most countries
12:44<LA[lord]>I could reward the producer of this greatly
12:45<LA[lord]>gonozal, I'm over the law
12:45<Gonozal_VIII>we should meet in the dark alley behind the skidd factory at midnight... come alone and unarmed
12:46[~]LA[lord] starts organizing guys together + snipers on the roof
12:46<LA[lord]>cash?
12:46<LA[lord]>or PayPal to orudge's account
12:46<pavel1269>no, i will give ya mine ;)
12:47<LA[lord]>hehe
12:48<LA[lord]>this is public line, we should discuss such things here
12:48[~]Sacro makes notes
12:48<LA[lord]>we can be listened
12:48[~]Gonozal_VIII hopes that lord doesn't find out that he wants to sell him a skidd15 in disguise
12:48<LA[lord]>shouldn't*
12:48<pavel1269>:)
12:51[~]LA[lord] hopes Gonozal_VIII doesn't notice that the greens he'll get are marked...
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12:56<pavel1269>:o)
12:57<Sacro>nice nose
12:57<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
12:57<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 46 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I mean... it should be that simple but since you have problems I guess it's a bit more complex than that
13:01<skidd13>LA[lord]: your master arises (after reading the IRC logs :D )
13:01<LA[lord]>yeepii
13:02<pavel1269>:)
13:11<LA[lord]>..and gonozal just missed a good deal
13:12<Gonozal_VIII>:-/
13:12<LA[lord]>I got the ORIGINAL exemplar
13:20<pavel1269>question ... is "(a & b) == 0" and "(a == !b)" the same?
13:21<Gonozal_VIII>could be both false
13:22<Gonozal_VIII>hmm
13:22<pavel1269>same or not? :)
13:22<Gonozal_VIII>depends on how & is used^^
13:22<Eddi|zuHause2>depends on bitwise vs. logical
13:23<pavel1269>aritmetic
13:23<Eddi|zuHause2>bitwise not is ~
13:23<pavel1269>hehe :o)
13:23<pavel1269>ty
13:23<Eddi|zuHause2>but even then, they are not the same
13:24<Rubidium_>pavel1269: fill in 1 and 2
13:24<Eddi|zuHause2>if a==0 and b==0, then the first expression is true, and the second is false
13:25<pavel1269>(01 & 10) == 00 and 01 == !/~ 10 is true too
13:25<pavel1269>!/~ 10 == 01
13:25<pavel1269>*=
13:25<Rubidium_>pavel1269: only in 2 bit logic
13:26<Rubidium_>and !10 = 00
13:26<Rubidium_>so only for bitwise in 2 bit logic
13:26<pavel1269>hmm
13:26<pavel1269>is uint bitwise? :)
13:27<Rubidium_>uint is at least 32 bits 'wide'
13:27|-|Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-108-153-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
13:27<Draakon>hello
13:27<pavel1269>i am trying to figure out how one piece of code works :)
13:27<Rubidium_>so ~0 = pow(2, 32) - 1
13:27<pavel1269>:o
13:28<Eddi|zuHause2>(a&b)==0 checks wether there are common bits set
13:28<Eddi|zuHause2>a=~b checks wether all bits are inverted
13:28<pavel1269>( ((a & b) == 0) && (a == ~b) ) - true? :) a is byte and b is uint
13:28<pavel1269>ah ...
13:28<pavel1269>no
13:29<Eddi|zuHause2>==
13:29<pavel1269>ty Rubidium_: that explained it to me
13:30<pavel1269>so .. b=1111 but ~b = 111111111111111111111111111110000 ? :)
13:32<Draakon>hmm wierd, i got a strange problem here: i got some patches installed, compiled successfully, and after some play time, one patch stops working as it should and that patch option disseapears from configure patches window :S
13:33<pavel1269>hehehe
13:33<pavel1269>which patch is that?
13:33[~]pavel1269 prays
13:33<Draakon>even after recompiling option doesnt appear
13:33<Rubidium_>applying multiple patches and 'succeeding' compilation doesn't mean that it works
13:34<Draakon>i have these patches: Copy&paste, No hill and curve slowdown, No random closure and opening of industries, No local authority, No airchrashes
13:34<Rubidium_>pavel1269: yes, or 60 1s and 4 0s on 64 bits
13:34<pavel1269>:-/
13:34<pavel1269>baah
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>bit-magic is a wonderful thing for a beginner ;)
13:35<Draakon>yes i know but still why this thing is happening
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13:36<Frostregen>hi
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>Copy&paste <-- nice, No hill and curve slowdown <-- naah, No random closure and opening of industries <-- nice, No local authority <-- naah , No airchrashes <-- naah
13:37<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni!
13:37<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII!
13:37<Draakon>gonozal: huh?
13:37<pavel1269>Draakon: he commented you patches :)
13:37<ln->it's sir Bjarni!
13:37<pavel1269>*patches you use
13:37<Draakon>and you are Sir In?
13:37<Frostregen>is there a place where i can find the current savegame version? (the highest value used in SDT_COND())
13:38<@Bjarni>Sir In?
13:38<ln->Draakon: nope, i've got a proper font on my terminal.
13:38<Draakon>k but still why this is happening to me?
13:38<@Bjarni>when who is Sir Out? :)
13:38<Draakon>lo,.
13:38<Draakon>lol*
13:38<pavel1269>Draakon is sir out :) h made a vote :)
13:38<pavel1269>*he
13:38<Draakon>no
13:38<@Bjarni>damn you guys
13:38<@Bjarni>you should type proper before hitting enter
13:39<pavel1269>so repair us :P
13:39<@Bjarni>fat chance :P
13:39<LA[lord]>one kick should do the trick I guess :D
13:39<pavel1269>thats just bugs in system ^^
13:39<@Bjarni>you are broken by design
13:39[~]pavel1269 looks around
13:40<LA[lord]>hmm..what a poetry..kick..trick
13:40<ln->sir Bjarni: how about another vote?
13:40<pavel1269>sameone should kick LA[lord], because he want to kick me :D
13:40<Draakon>what about my problem?
13:40<Eddi|zuHause2>"naah" <- this reminds me of the wiki article on false friends
13:41<Gonozal_VIII>?
13:41<pavel1269>Eddi|zuHause2: that was "ahah"
13:41<pv2b>hey. i've written a patch that solves the crappy share behaviour, but i want somebody more familiar with the openttd to look at it before i submit it to flyspray.
13:41<LA[lord]>pavel1269> thats just bugs in system ^^> write a patch then :D
13:42|-|Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
13:42<Eddi|zuHause2>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_falscher_Freunde <- scroll down to the last table, entry on "na"
13:43<Draakon> i got some patches installed, compiled successfully, and after some play time, one patch stops working as it should and that patch option disseapears from configure patches window
13:43<Draakon>why nobody answers to this?
13:43<Eddi|zuHause2>Draakon: no support of patched versions
13:43<Rubidium_>because nobody has the faintest idea?
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have problems with one patch, talk to the patch author
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have problems with mixing patches... well, bad luck i suppose ;)
13:44<Draakon>the thing is: how can a patch option be gone from configure patches option when it was there?
13:45<Rubidium_>and when you mix patches, you become the author of the whole 'patch'
13:45<Draakon>lol
13:47<Draakon>looks like i gotta repatch then
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13:58<pavel1269>LA[lord]: hard to write ... but i am thinking about some check system :)
13:58<LA[lord]>spell-checker?
13:59<pavel1269>got some?
13:59<Draakon>me niet
13:59<Draakon>:P
14:00<pavel1269>niet?
14:00<Draakon>no in russian :)
14:00<pavel1269>so long :)
14:00<LA[lord]>they say njetu
14:01<LA[lord]>like "njetu rublei"
14:01<LA[lord]>:D
14:01<Eddi|zuHause2>that sounds like a case
14:02<Draakon>no not njetu
14:02<Draakon>niet
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>njet
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>^^
14:02<LA[lord]>n je t
14:02|-|DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:02<LA[lord]>(u)
14:12<Draakon>why i got this error: http://paste.openttd.org/384
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14:13<pv2b>can somebody with flyspray admin access change the task type for this http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1606 into "patch"?
14:13|-|Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:15<reto>Rubidium_: airport-replace-crash: okay, good to know that the os x stacktrace doesn't help much
14:16<reto>Rubidium_: I wasn't able to reproduce it myself, thats the reason why I didn't attach a savegame
14:17|-|CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd
14:17<pavel1269>Draakon: thats written there ... u redefined that function
14:17<Draakon>im no expert in coding
14:18<Frostregen>Draakon: my command_queue.cpp has only 124 lines
14:18<Frostregen>ah
14:18<Frostregen>did you apply the patch, without deleting the files?
14:18<Frostregen>svn appends the file contents, if the file already exists
14:19<Draakon>i did apply a patch but dint delete nothing
14:19<Frostregen>look into the files...they should have their content twice
14:19<Noldo>pv2b: what happens if the companies buy 75 % of each other and then one of them makes $1
14:20|-|Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:20<Eddi|zuHause2>Noldo: 1£ (2$) is the minimum unit ;)
14:20<pv2b>Noldo: that's.... complicated *<:-)
14:20<pv2b>Noldo: but calculable
14:21|-||Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
14:21<Noldo>or first they buy 75% of each other, then they both make 1k of money and then they sell the shares of each other
14:22<pv2b>Noldo: ok. we can model that.
14:22<pv2b>a is the base company value
14:22<pv2b>and A is the total company value
14:22<pv2b>same for b and B
14:22<pv2b>so A = a + 0.75B and B = b + 0.75A
14:22<pv2b>in this case A=B
14:23<pv2b>so A = a + 0.75A
14:23<pv2b>0.25A = a
14:23<pv2b>A = 4a
14:23<pavel1269>O_o
14:23<Noldo>let's say they both double their base value
14:23<Noldo>so we don't need to use any fixed amounts
14:24<pv2b>nah
14:24<pv2b>its ok
14:24<pv2b>we can use fixed amounts
14:25<pv2b>so, the company values go up 4 times what they would have gone up otherwise.
14:25<pv2b>that's because the company acually owns itself, as opposed to being owned by anonymous shareholders somewhere else
14:27<pv2b>nothing strange here really. it's the same in the current system. if you own 75% of another company you also make that money again
14:27<Noldo>so after the selling, what is the value of A and B
14:28<pv2b>let me make sure i have my calculations correct. just a moment.
14:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11723 /trunk/ (config.lib src/rail.cpp):
14:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: add initial support for Intel C Compiler on linux
14:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: silence a few warnings of ICC
14:32|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A44A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [Ping timeout: Hmm ping sucks :D]
14:33<reto>Noldo: thats something I mentioned yesterday
14:33<reto>Noldo: the company is actually owned twice
14:34<reto>Noldo: once by the player, and then by share holders, if there are some
14:34<reto>but this isn't that bad
14:34<reto>the patch pv2b wrote doesn't fix that, but it doesn't make it worse either
14:35<pavel1269>hehe
14:36<pv2b>yeah
14:36|-|tokai [~tokai@p54B82A0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:36<pv2b>for it to "really" work, money would have to disappear when the shareholder sells his stock back
14:36<Noldo>hm? what do you mean?
14:36<pv2b>but all that happens is that he sells to a mysterious non-player charater
14:36<pv2b>who isn't really a part of the game
14:37<peter__>it sucks
14:37<Noldo>true
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14:37|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
14:38<Gonozal_VIII>make it so that you can't sell unless somebody buys
14:38<pv2b>to do what would be a fundamental change in game mechanics.
14:38<pv2b>i just took the flawed system that exists now and patched a hole in it
14:39<pv2b>the reality is that the real money is made by investors who aren't even playing the game
14:39<Gonozal_VIII>bring the system down!
14:39<pv2b>when you buy stock you buy it on the stock market from them
14:40<pv2b>so when the company now makes more money because of owning part of another company, that's normal
14:40<pv2b>because that money would otherwise go out as value to those poeple
14:40<pv2b>because the money of the company isn't really "the company's" money
14:40<pv2b>it
14:41<pv2b>it's the stockholder's money
14:41<pv2b>it all makes sense
14:44<pavel1269>i got it :P red is 0x15 and green is ~magic_number_of_signal
14:44<pavel1269>muhahahahaha ... :D
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14:52<pavel1269>no wrong :'(
14:52|-|TX [~pIRCuser6@hard-soft--121.colo2.kv.wnet.ua] has joined #openttd
14:57<pavel1269>question: 0010 ^ 0110 = ?
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15:00<Sacro>pavel1269: is that XOR?
15:01<Sacro>if it is then 0100
15:01<pavel1269>no ^ is ^ :))
15:02<pavel1269>and i really dunno whats result
15:04<pavel1269>yeah!
15:08<Sacro>0 XOR 0 = 0
15:08<Sacro>0 XOR 1 = 1
15:08<Sacro>1 XOR 1 = 0
15:09<Gonozal_VIII>1 XOR 0 = 1
15:09<pavel1269>i know table
15:11<pavel1269>so byte a = 11; b = a ^ (~a); b == 11? :)
15:11<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: sure about that?
15:11|-|HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i59F7E9A7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
15:11<pavel1269>or 00 ? :)
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15:12<Gonozal_VIII>a ^ ~a is always 11?
15:12|-|Prof_Frink [~proffrink@79-68-157-158.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
15:12<peter__>b == 11111100
15:13<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm
15:13<Gonozal_VIII>^^
15:13<peter__>hmm, no
15:13<peter__>11111111, heh
15:13<pavel1269>ah :/
15:14|-|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit []
15:14<Gonozal_VIII>~0 :-)
15:15<pavel1269>11111111
15:15<pavel1269>hehe
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15:16<Gonozal_VIII>a ^ ~a == ~0 :-)
15:16<pavel1269>damn ^"
15:16<pavel1269>!
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15:35<peter__>are you just trying out random things or something?
15:35<Gonozal_VIII>random == fun
15:35|-|bmichna [~bmichna@81-86-244-13.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:35<Gonozal_VIII>true :-)
15:35<pavel1269>peter__: no this is how signals works atm :)
15:36<LA[lord]>heyhey, new grf avilable! new grf avilable! http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35310&p=651826#p651826
15:36[~]LA[lord] goes shouting
15:37<ln->Bjarni: sir, how about a new OSX-specific vote, sir?
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15:49|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
15:53<Sacro>@calc 1^1
15:53<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:53<Sacro>DorpsGek: quite possibly
15:53<Sacro>@calc 1 ^ 1
15:53<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:53<Sacro>@calc 1^2
15:53<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:53<Sacro>grr
15:53<Sacro>@calc 2**4
15:53<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 16
15:53<pavel1269>@calc 1+2+3
15:53<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 6
15:54<pavel1269>@calc 1+2 & 2
15:54<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:54<Sacro>@calc 3!
15:54<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
15:54<pavel1269>@calc 1+2&2
15:54<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:54<pavel1269>@calc ~2
15:54<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:54<pavel1269>@calc !2
15:54<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
15:54<Rubidium_>it doesn't do bitmath
15:54<pavel1269>@calc 2*(1+2)
15:54<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 6
15:54<pavel1269>@calc 2*1+2
15:54<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 4
15:54<pavel1269>@calc 1+2*2
15:54<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 5
15:55<pavel1269>Rubidium_: he sould :P
15:55<ln->is it vulnerable?
15:57<+glx>and you can talk to the bot in private
15:58<pavel1269>hehe
15:58<+glx>instead "spaming" the chan
15:58<ln->freedom of speech!!1
15:58<Gonozal_VIII>spam, spam, spam, bacon and spam
15:59<valhallasw>bacon :9
15:59<Sacro>Lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce garnished with truffle paté, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam
16:00<pavel1269>@calc x=4+2
16:00<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
16:00<pavel1269>:)
16:01<pavel1269>@calc 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2
16:01<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
16:01<pavel1269>wow uint 64 :P
16:02<LA[lord]>ham, ham, bacon and sausage
16:02<Gonozal_VIII>@calc 2**64
16:02<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: 18446744073709551616
16:02<pavel1269>hehe :D
16:02<Sacro>@calc 2**64+1
16:02<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 18446744073709551616
16:02<Sacro>that looks suspect
16:02<reto>@calc -1
16:02<Sacro>@calc (#2**64)+1
16:02<@DorpsGek>reto: -1
16:03<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
16:03<Sacro>@calc (2**64)+1
16:03<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 18446744073709551616
16:03<pavel1269>@calc 2**128*2
16:03<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 680564733841876926926749214863536422912
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>and just one little wafer ;)
16:03<pavel1269>yay
16:03<reto>@calc print "ho ho ho"
16:03<@DorpsGek>reto: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
16:03<Sacro>how can 2**64 == 2**64 + 1
16:03<LA[lord]>@calc 18446744073709551616+1
16:03<@DorpsGek>LA[lord]: 18446744073699999744
16:03<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: a wafer thin mint?
16:03<pavel1269>@print hohoho
16:03<reto>@calc ()
16:03<@DorpsGek>reto: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
16:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't know the exact original phrase+
16:04<reto>@calc 1 + `1`
16:04<@DorpsGek>reto: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
16:04<reto>bah I think this thing is safe
16:04<pavel1269>@calc 2**2
16:04<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 4
16:04<pavel1269>@calc 2**2+1
16:04<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 5
16:04<pavel1269>@calc 2**(2+1)
16:04<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 8
16:04<pavel1269>@calc 2**(64+1)
16:04<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 36893488147419103232
16:04<pavel1269>@calc 2**64+1
16:04<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
16:04<pavel1269>@calc 2**64
16:04<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
16:04<joosa>joosa:calc c
16:04<joosa>joosa: 2.99792458e8 m/s = 2.9979246e+08 m / s
16:04<joosa>joosa:calc km
16:04<joosa>joosa: kilo m = 1000 m
16:04<pavel1269>Sacro: good point
16:04<pavel1269>bot is broken
16:05<pavel1269>@calc 2**64+2
16:05<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
16:05<pavel1269>@calc 2**64+2*8
16:05<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
16:05<joosa>@calc c
16:05<@DorpsGek>joosa: Error: 'c' is not a defined function.
16:05<pavel1269>@calc 2**64+2**8
16:05<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
16:05<reto>@calc exit
16:05<@DorpsGek>reto: Error: 'exit' is not a defined function.
16:05<hylje>@kick joosa
16:05<pavel1269>hehe
16:05<Rubidium_>stop playing with the bot
16:05<joosa>GNU units is better ;)
16:05<pavel1269>Rubidium_: sir, yes sir
16:05<joosa>calc c -> km/s
16:06<joosa>joosa: calc c -> km/s
16:06<joosa>joosa: c = 299792.46 km/s
16:06<Eddi|zuHause2><pavel1269> bot is broken <- no, it's standard computer math, in floating point calculus, there is a number "eps" for which 1+eps == 1
16:06<pavel1269>hmm
16:06<pavel1269>true :)
16:06<pavel1269>i see that now
16:06<LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @calc 18446744073709551616+1
16:06<LA[lord]> <DorpsGek> LA[lord]: 18446744073699999744
16:06<Eddi|zuHause2>so 2^64*(1+eps) = 2^64
16:06<LA[lord]>but what about this?
16:06<Sacro>those darn germans
16:07<Eddi|zuHause2>and it may well be that 2^64*eps > 1
16:07<pavel1269>you copied that value which isnt exact
16:07<pavel1269>:)
16:08<joosa>joosa: calc18446744073709551616+D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D1
16:08<joosa>joosa: calc 18446744073709551616+1
16:08<joosa>joosa: 1.8446744e+19
16:08<joosa>yes
16:08<LA[lord]>pavel, I just checked it is correct 2ˇ64
16:08<pavel1269>:O ?
16:08<joosa>joos: calc 1.8446744e+19 +1
16:08<joosa>joosa: calc 1.8446744e+19 +1
16:08<joosa>joosa: 1.8446744e+19
16:09<pavel1269>you broke him? :))
16:09<joosa>joosa: calc 1.8446744e+19 -> 2^64
16:09<joosa>joosa: 1.8446744e+19 = 1 * 2^64 = (1 / 1) * 2^64
16:09<LA[lord]>joosa, please stop spam, it's not funny anymore
16:09<joosa>true also
16:09<joosa>as funny as your bot :)
16:10<LA[lord]>@kick&ban joosa
16:10[~]LA[lord] please
16:10<pavel1269>:O
16:10[~]LA[lord] was kidding :D
16:10<Rubidium_>LA[lord]: just /ignore joosa
16:10<LA[lord]>good idea
16:11<joosa>that's a bit sensitive, eh :)
16:13<pavel1269>bot in pm dont use *10**x
16:13<pavel1269>?
16:13|-|kratt [~kratt@84-50-18-37-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
16:14<kratt>wazaa
16:14<kratt>looking for madis!1
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16:19<joosa>dunno why you got offended, but I'm sorry nonetheless
16:20<pavel1269>my last try here at least today i swear :)
16:20<pavel1269>@calc (((0.119874657+1+19**138*5+12**8*0.11665187)*2**428*(0.1/(2**190))*2**128))+(((0.119874657+1+19**128*5+12**8*0.11687)*2**408*(0.1/(2**250))*2**128)/2**128)
16:20<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: 22077268975293935045040910945539747478071205217806623289358828035204074600683502537078742987578372109668993893075499887648512281056380608338829213782858767974932810503517907613780146443767858758356666033722763090291853027184001159165917478373612497819457666585772214632038054468874403840
16:20<pavel1269>okay ...
16:20<joosa>compare it with joosa: calc :)
16:21<joosa>it will only show a boring 23843234e+34 result
16:21<pavel1269>i just wonder, why it show me now whole number :)
16:22<joosa>it's quite advanced
16:22<pavel1269>where? :D
16:22<joosa>in that it can show such large numbers :P
16:22<pavel1269>and i dont see float point ... :)
16:23<Eddi|zuHause2>note that IRC messages are trunkated
16:23<joosa>that was not that long I think
16:23<pavel1269>sure? do you see that 3lines of number? :))
16:23<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: s/k/c/
16:24|-|dih [~dihedral@p54A0F542.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:24<dih>:-)
16:24<pavel1269>:o)
16:24<joosa>dunno about this network, but others have bigger limits
16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>the irc standard says 512 bytes i believe
16:25<peter__>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
16:25<peter__>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
16:25<peter__>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
16:25<peter__>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
16:25<joosa>ok, it was the whole message
16:25<peter__>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
16:25<peter__>hmm
16:25<peter__>that wasn't meant to happen :p
16:25<joosa>proved the point tho :)
16:25<hylje>what
16:27<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: but i'm not using CDE either
16:28<pv2b>zzzzzzz?
16:28<dih>peter__ thanks for spaming
16:28<dih>flooding the channel
16:28<pavel1269>doh: np
16:28<peter__>you're welcome
16:29[~]Sacro hits the snooze button on peter__
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16:32[~]dih hopes peter__ snoozes for more than just 5 mins
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16:34<LA[lord]><joosa> "dunno why you got offended, but I'm sorry nonetheless" I didn't get offended but I'm just tired a little bit..
16:35<joosa>that's ok :) I got a bit carried away
16:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11724 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make it impossible (for users) to circumvent the length checking of the NewGRF 'allow wagon attach' callback by moving several wagons at a time.
16:36<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: sir, how about a new OSX-specific vote, sir? <--- sure... "What is the best OS?" (only mac users are allowed to vote)
16:36<@Bjarni>or maybe you meant some other question ;)
16:37<LA[lord]>ok..I now officially declare...sleepiness
16:37<LA[lord]>good night
16:37[~]dih greets the bit
16:37<dih>hello Bjarni :-P
16:38<@Bjarni>the bit?
16:38<dih>just kidding
16:38<dih>just saying 'hello'
16:38<dih>hello :-)
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16:38<@Bjarni>hello?
16:39<pavel1269>.)
16:39<@Bjarni>do you think I'm some sort of phone operator that you can call all night if you like?
16:39<pavel1269>:D
16:39<@Bjarni>I'm not a hello girl
16:39<pavel1269>good point :D
16:39<Gonozal_VIII>you're a girl? :D
16:39<pavel1269>Gonozal_VIII: :o)
16:39<@Bjarni>no
16:40<@Bjarni>hmm
16:40<pavel1269>whatsup? :P
16:40<@Bjarni>maybe it wouldn't be so bad after all
16:40<@Bjarni>I mean... it would allow more boobs in here
16:40<pavel1269>you want get pregnant or what ^^
16:40<@Bjarni>but it might also make boobs less interesting
16:41<@Bjarni>pavel1269: that's the first time that I have been asked that question
16:41<@Bjarni>EVER
16:41<@Bjarni>and I don't plan to be asked again :P
16:41<pavel1269>:D
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
16:42<Rubidium_>having said that, Bjarni assumes a similar question very soon
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>but how can you be sure?
16:43<Eddi|zuHause2>there are too many 2nd level industries on the map...
16:43<pavel1269>2nd level??
16:43<@Bjarni>well
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16:43<@Bjarni>it's pretty simple
16:43<@Bjarni>the next person to ask me will be banned
16:44<Prof_Frink>hehe, boobies.
16:44<pv2b>ask Bjarni what?
16:44<pavel1269>:D
16:44|-|kratt [~kratt@84-50-18-37-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
16:44<Eddi|zuHause2>pavel1269: 2nd level is after 1st level
16:44[~]pavel1269 delets note to ask something Bjarni tomorow :D
16:44<Eddi|zuHause2>first level industries are producing industires (mines, farms, forests)
16:45<Gonozal_VIII>but you can only do that after it happened ;-)
16:45<pavel1269>2nd factory 3rd powerplant?
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16:45<Eddi|zuHause2>second level industries are manufacturing industries (fatories, refineries, etc.)
16:45<@Bjarni>pv2b: you can read what those weirdos asked me a moment ago
16:45<pv2b>Bjarni: ah.
16:45<Eddi|zuHause2>3rd level depends on your kind of definition
16:45<pavel1269>heh
16:45<pv2b>Bjarni: also, one thing i just realised. why to people say putting stuff in ~/Library is "complicated"?
16:46<pavel1269>pv2b: maybye, cos it's complicated? :)
16:46<@Bjarni>why is it complicated?
16:46<pv2b>it's not windows, so it's not like it's behind some huge "here be dragons" sign
16:46[~]pavel1269 does'nt know
16:46<Eddi|zuHause2>in scientific context, 3rd level is when you don't actually produce anything, but rather sell your "work force"
16:46<@Bjarni>I asked pv2b ;)
16:47<pv2b>Bjarni: it isn't complicated. people claim it is though
16:47<pv2b>in that forum thread on where openttd files should go
16:47<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. you provide services
16:47<pavel1269>pv2b: where i have that big dragon? :)
16:48<pv2b>placing it somewhere like ~/.openttd on mac -- now *that* would be complicated *<:-)
16:48<Eddi|zuHause2>in TTD context, 3rd level should rather refer to the "distributing" part of the chain, i.e. commercial town buildings that accept goods
16:48<Rubidium_>pv2b: actually, that's simple
16:48|-|peterbrett [~peter@cpc2-oxfd6-0-0-cust544.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
16:48<@Bjarni>I fear that if we place everything in ~/Library then people can't find their savegames anymore and this will cause poor bug reports
16:48<pavel1269>:)
16:48<pv2b>Rubidium_: .files are hidden in the finder by default on mac.
16:48<reto>hmm is there an easy way to override the 'authority doesnt allow you to build another airport' ?
16:48<pv2b>Bjarni: which is why savegames should be in ~/Documents
16:49<pavel1269>reto: patch or trees :)
16:49<reto>I'd like to build another one, quite far away from the city
16:49<Eddi|zuHause2>if you generalise that to "industries who only accept but not produce", then power plant falls into that category
16:49<reto>nah, its the counter
16:49<@Bjarni>damn.... some spammer figured out how to penetrate my spam filter today
16:49<Gonozal_VIII>yes reto, destroy one of the existing airports
16:49<@Bjarni>it usually picks up all spam but it failed on like 10 mails today :(
16:49<pv2b>Bjarni: "penetrate" your "spam filter".
16:49<reto>Gonozal_VIII: I need them :) they are money makers
16:49<Gonozal_VIII>that's cheap :P
16:49<reto>Gonozal_VIII: I can understand that they don't awnt another airport right next to the city, but outside :)
16:49<Rubidium_>pv2b: but savegames are configuration files too ;)
16:50<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: You could argue that the Arctic printing works is 3rd level
16:50<pv2b>Rubidium_: no, savegames are documents
16:50<pv2b>Rubidium_: unless you want to say that an .rtf is a config file
16:50<pavel1269>it si :)
16:50<pavel1269>*it is
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: i don't play a lot of arctic ;)
16:50<Rubidium_>well... what distinguishes a .cfg from a .txt?
16:50<Rubidium_>only the extension?
16:50<@Bjarni><pv2b> Bjarni: which is why savegames should be in ~/Documents <--- so we save savegames in Documents and we make it possible to read grf files from there (in addition to some new location) then what is the new stuff about your idea?
16:50<pv2b>Rubidium_: the purpose of the file.
16:51<Rubidium_>the purpose of a savegame is to store settings amongst some other things
16:51<pv2b>Bjarni: nothing really. except people shouldnt be able to put grfs there, but in Library
16:51<Rubidium_>same as openttd.cfg
16:51<@Bjarni>why shouldn't we at least check for a data dir in ~/Documents/OpenTTD?
16:52<pv2b>pfft... well... you *could* but it's just yet another place to check in
16:52<pv2b>and the wrong place t oo
16:52<Rubidium_>Bjarni: because that doesn't complicate the code
16:52<pv2b>s/t oo/too/
16:52<Rubidium_>we should make as much exceptions as possible for OSX
16:52<peter__>I have a ~/Documents
16:52<Eddi|zuHause2>:p
16:53<pv2b>it should check, in the following order, current directory, ~/Library/Application Support/OpenTTD, /Library/Application Support/OpenTTD, then inside the bundle.
16:53<@Bjarni><pv2b> Bjarni: "penetrate" your "spam filter". <-- I wonder if this question belongs to the category that was promised a ban
16:53<pavel1269>:)
16:53<pv2b>Bjarni: it wasn't a question, to be technical, and hey, you're the one with the lively imagination.
16:54<Rubidium_>current directory is 99% of the time /
16:54[~]Prof_Frink attacks Bjarni with a spam javelin
16:54<pv2b>Rubidium_: i believe for bundles on os x, current directory is the directory the bundle is in
16:54<@Bjarni>current directory should be read as the directory the bundle is inside
16:54<pv2b>Rubidium_: i can check if you want... build a quick project in xcode
16:55<dih>:-)
16:55<@Bjarni>if we actually read the current dir when the game is opened by double clicking in finder then we get "/"
16:55<pv2b>Bjarni: really? wow. i didn't expect that.
16:55<@Bjarni>we have a piece of code to give us the right directory
16:56<@Bjarni><Rubidium_> we should make as much exceptions as possible for OSX <-- I will prefer not to... not only do I find this a bit useless to code I also find it a waste of time to maintain
16:57<@Bjarni>the current code just works
16:57<Rubidium_>yeah, but in that case I can assign more bugs to you ;)
16:57<@Bjarni>...
16:57<Rubidium_>isn't that what you wanted when you made the poll?
16:57<pv2b>the only thing t hat needs to be added to the current code really to add a compile time option for where to place savegames
16:57<pv2b>or hell, no, a configuration option
16:57<pv2b>it should be user-settable
16:57<pv2b>i think it is already
16:57<Rubidium_>pv2b: there is a configuration option
16:57<pv2b>then it's just a question of diffferent defaults.
16:58<pv2b>different default openttd.cfg files depending on the platform. which i believe is already kinda done.
16:58<Rubidium_>the cfgs are default
16:58<Rubidium_>the locations at least
16:58<@Bjarni>I don't get this... if we end up with ~/Documents/OpenTTD then why all this?
16:59<pv2b>because grfs shouldn't be in there *<:-)
16:59<ln->you aren't seriously considering allowing the users to decide where to place the stuff on mac?
16:59<pv2b>documents/openttd is fine, but the config file and other such data files should not be in there.
16:59[~]Bjarni is considering using his power as the only mac user with svn access to declare "this is the solution... live with it"
17:00<pavel1269>:o)
17:00<@Bjarni>it's a really simple thing that you are making really complicated
17:00<pv2b>what i'm suggesting isn't complicated, is it?
17:00<@Bjarni>it is
17:00<pv2b>how? changing the default location for savegames is hard?
17:01<dih>hello
17:01<Rubidium_>pv2b: currently it is the case that it places savegames where the configuration file is.
17:01<@Bjarni>because you want savegames to be somewhere different from grf files even though the readme (which is meant to work on all OSes) states that they are in the same dir
17:01<Rubidium_>the major advantage of this is the fact that one can 'force' OpenTTD to place *all* files in the installation directory
17:01<ln->you don't have write access to the readme?
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17:01<dih>he is not blabbleing on about that - still, is he?
17:01<pv2b>Bjarni: ah, there's a new argument i haven't heard before that's at least interesting.
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17:01<@Bjarni>so we will end up with "this is how to do it and oh btw pc2b liked us to make it different on OSX for no technical reason whatsoever"
17:02<Rubidium_>if you are forcing someone to always use ~/Documents/OpenTTD for savegames that is not possible anymore
17:02<pavel1269>:)
17:02<pv2b>actually, i think that it how it should be on all platforms.
17:02<dih>Bjarni: i do have to appologise
17:02<@Bjarni>I'm not changing any path stuff on windows
17:02<@Bjarni>why?
17:02<pavel1269>why?
17:02<dih>because i brought this up
17:03<dih>and because one kid in paticular is still going on about it
17:03<dih>who is not accepting the fact that the poll is about the OpenTTD directory that is currently stored in ~/Documents and not it's subdirectories
17:04<pv2b>not a single person wants to have everything in ~/Documents
17:04[~]dih slaps pv2b
17:04<pavel1269>that should be a great mess :)
17:04<pv2b>i can live with everything in ~/Library. whatever.
17:04<@Bjarni>one guy posted that he wants it in Documents yet nobody voted that
17:04<reto>what about ~/Games *duck&cover* :)
17:04<dih>:-P
17:04[~]pavel1269 is going to vote
17:04<dih>oh my word
17:05<Rubidium_>pv2b: what is the location of 'shared files' that is writable for everyone?
17:05<dih>Bjarni - can we not just delete the post, or close it with the words "accept the developers choice, if you dont like it, compile it yourselves"
17:05<pavel1269>no lock, but idea, yes :P
17:06<pv2b>Rubidium_: the closest is /Library/Application Support, but it's not writable by "everyone". however, standard users as configured by osx at least in a singleuser setup let users write tehre
17:06|-|Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-200-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06<pv2b>that can be changed using a simple chmod though.
17:07<Sacro>~/OpenTTD sounds good to me
17:07<Rubidium_>ah well... then you can debate as long about this 'issue', but it can't be solved on OSX because the hs.dat should be shared between users ;)
17:07<pv2b>Rubidium_: yeah, you can. just put hs.dat in /Library and chmod it appropriately.
17:08<Sacro>stdafx.h line 177 makes no sense
17:09<dih>in /Library now?
17:09<ln->Sacro: ~/OpenTTD is simply wrong
17:09<pv2b>dih: he's talking about global highscores.
17:09<pv2b>i think at least.
17:09<Rubidium_>Sacro: why not?
17:10<pv2b>Sacro: makes sense to me.
17:10<pv2b>Sacro: if 32-bit windows and not 64-bit windows.
17:10<@Bjarni><Sacro> ~/OpenTTD sounds good to me <-- of all the suggesting that I have heard about this issue this one just got the price as being the worst
17:10<@Bjarni>as a default location
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17:10<pv2b>Bjarni: it's less bad than ~/Documents/OpenTTD *<:-)
17:10<@Bjarni>no it's not
17:10<Sacro>/* This is needed to zlib uses the stdcall calling convention on visual studio */
17:11<reto>isn't there already a documents/openttd?
17:11<Sacro>that "to" should be "if" or "so"
17:11<Rubidium_>64 bits Windows has WIN32 defined (WoW64)
17:11<pv2b>Rubidium_: really? *that* makes no sense.
17:11<@Bjarni>reto: all this started when *somebody* didn't like the way it currently works (Using the documents dir)
17:11<reto>ah
17:11<Rubidium_>pv2b: it's Microsoft, which is the reason it makes sense
17:12[~]dih checks the poll :-)
17:12<reto>well... people prefer to keep the decouments folder clean
17:12<@Bjarni>yeah
17:12<@Bjarni>but we have to place the files somewhere
17:12[~]reto would would for ~/Library I think
17:13<reto>+vote :)
17:13<Rubidium_>yeah... placing savegames in library... that's where people would go looking
17:13<Eddi|zuHause2>well... _I_ think "documents" makes the most sense for savegames and screenshots, "library" for grfs
17:13<pavel1269>youa
17:13<pavel1269>*yeah
17:13<pavel1269>:)
17:14<Eddi|zuHause2>but i'm not on OS X
17:14<dih>Bjarni: make a desicion on this location think (move or no move) just so it's over and done with
17:14<reto>Docuemnts is just to visible for a openttd save game
17:14<pv2b>hey, you know what?
17:14[~]Bjarni just made a decision
17:15<pv2b>place everything in library.
17:15<pv2b>if the user cant find savegames he's an idiot
17:15<reto>and yes, usually people expect preference in Library.. and savegames.. well
17:15<@Bjarni>and in 5 minutes we will all know if I ended up coding it right
17:15<pv2b>he can just press save and press .. and see where it is
17:15<pv2b>it's the same thing with everytihng, if people save stuff without checking *where* they save stuff it's their problem
17:15<Rubidium_>maybe we should just place everything in the application bundle under 'savegames'
17:15<pv2b>Rubidium_: i actually have software that does stuff like that.
17:15<Rubidium_>so there is only one 'directory'
17:15<pavel1269>:)
17:15<dih>and as before, Bjarni, i appologize for bringing up the hassle (mainly regarding other users arguments)
17:16<dih>i did not think it would 'get out of hand' at any point of time
17:16[~]Rubidium_ votes for pv2b making the way he envisions it without breaking anything else
17:17<dih>Rubidium_: for himself or trunk/?
17:17<Rubidium_>neither?
17:18<pv2b>Rubidium_: sure, expect a patch before the new year.
17:18<Rubidium_>LOL ;)
17:19<Rubidium_>are you somewhere with GMT-26?
17:19<pv2b>sön dec 30 23:19:20 CET 2007
17:19<pv2b>this is local time for me.
17:19<Rubidium_>'a' patch is simple
17:20<Rubidium_>a working patch that does not break anything else is something completely different
17:20<reto>Hmm.. I think I have ported a patch to svn-HEAD, should I post it in the corresponding patch thread?
17:20<reto>or just mail it to the author?
17:20<reto>sounds better to me
17:22<@Bjarni>post it in the thread
17:22[~]dih wonders what Bjarni has decided to do with the OpenTTD dir
17:22<pv2b>Rubidium_: let's say this. i make a new years resolution. if i can't make a working patch that breaks *nothing* else before 00:00 january 1 2008 central european time, i'll shut up about this forever.
17:22<pv2b>and i'll shut up about it now too.
17:22<@Bjarni>you see sometimes authors goes away and then if you keep it a secret between you and him then it's no good and will not end up in the trunk
17:23<dih>pv2b: the easiest way to get someone to shutup about it for a LONG time is a ban :-P
17:23<reto>Bjarni: well, it's been not in the trunk for 6 months now :)
17:23<reto>alright
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>6 months is nothing...
17:25<Rubidium_>pv2b: deal, I'll start making a mental list of possible bugs
17:25<pavel1269>:))
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>reto: which patch are you talking about?
17:25<pavel1269>pv2b: there is everytime chance to break sth
17:27<reto>Eddi|zuHause2: town
17:27<reto>Eddi|zuHause2: found town
17:28<Eddi|zuHause2>aha... i don't think that is a widely requested feature...
17:28<reto>yeah :)
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17:30<Sacro>o3>BSCMAKE: error BK1506 : cannot open file '..\objs\Win32\Release\heightmap.sbr': No such file or directory
17:31<strstrep>Hi, I have a chain of stations, A, B, C, and X. I want to deliver everything from A-C to X. Is there a way to create orders such that the train picks up whatever is at A, then moves to B, picks up whatever is there, then moves to C, picks up that cargo, and then moves to X and delivers, before returning to A?
17:32<pavel1269>yup
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>a no order, b and c transfer and take cargo, x no order
17:32<Rubidium_>as long as B and C do not accept the cargo that the train is taking it's simple
17:32<strstrep>But if it's say, passengers
17:33<pavel1269>go to a, go to b, go to c, go to x unload
17:33<Rubidium_>then use Gonozal_VIII's method
17:33<pavel1269>yu
17:33<ln->yeah, let's place the savegames inside the bundle!
17:33<pavel1269>p
17:33<strstrep>With transfer and take cargo, at B and C, it will transfer the passengers off, and then reload them.
17:33<ln->that's the most compact and anti-macish way of doing it.
17:33<Gonozal_VIII>yes, that's strange but it works
17:34<strstrep>If I made a patch that changed the behavior so that it didn't unload the passengers first, is there a good chance that it would be accepted?
17:34<Sacro>nobody?
17:34<pv2b>azureus did that by default for saved torrents for a while
17:34<pv2b>placing downloaded files insize the app bundle
17:34<Rubidium_>ln-: I'm fairly certain you can already do that
17:34<pv2b>i bet they got lots of people complaining about that.
17:35|-|peter__ [~petern@217.151.109.242] has quit [Quit: peter__]
17:36<strstrep>Or would that need to be a new order type? Or what?
17:37<Gonozal_VIII>i can think of a situation where the current behavior could be useful
17:37<strstrep>Sure
17:38<strstrep>I guess I can too.
17:38<Gonozal_VIII>if you have for example several stations where trains pick up with full load orders you could juse a train circling around with transfer and take cargo to balance that
17:39<strstrep>If I made a patch with a new order option to make a stop non-unload (or something to that effect) is there a good chance that the patch would be accepted?
17:40<strstrep>Or who should I talk to about that?
17:40<pavel1269>why you jsut dont write that patch nad use it?
17:41<pavel1269>and see if it will be accepted
17:41<strstrep>Well, it would be useful for some applications, like #openttdcoop, and they use stock nightly builds.
17:42<pavel1269>if you want it ... write it, use it
17:42<Gonozal_VIII>make it public... see if people like it :-)
17:42<pavel1269>yeah, look at me :)
17:42<strstrep>Ok, thanks.
17:43<reto>why are there several versions of the same string?
17:43<reto>like in this case:
17:43<reto>src/town_cmd.cpp: return_cmd_error(STR_0237_TOO_CLOSE_TO_EDGE_OF_MAP);
17:43<reto>src/water_cmd.cpp: return_cmd_error(STR_0002_TOO_CLOSE_TO_EDGE_OF_MAP);
17:43<reto>where as the first one is currently broken
17:44<Rubidium_>the strings aren't the same
17:44<reto>ah
17:45<Rubidium_>or at least "{WHITE}Too close to edge of map" doesn't look the same as "{WHITE}...too close to edge of map"
17:47<Rubidium_>the latter is probably preceded by "Can't build X..."
17:47<reto>hmm makes sense
17:49<pavel1269>good night
17:49<Gonozal_VIII>good fight
17:49|-|pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit []
17:55<dih>good night
18:02|-|dih [~dihedral@p54A0F542.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:05<strstrep>The GUI strings are defined in the lang/----.txt files, which are then built into the strings.h file, right?
18:08<Rubidium_>english.txt to be exact
18:09|-|michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:09<strstrep>ok
18:10|-|michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd
18:10|-|mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ
18:10<strstrep>Is there some reason that some strings have a four-digit hex code after STR_? Is that for certain legacy strings?
18:11<strstrep>And new strings don't need one? Or does that have some other purpose?
18:11<valhallasw>I suspect that hex code is the original code extracted from the disassembly
18:11<strstrep>Ok, thanks.
18:11<strstrep>You guys are very helpful.
18:12<ln->Bjarni: how about another vote?
18:12<valhallasw>IANAD though :)
18:13|-|waxman [~cfluegel@static.88-198-83-123.clients.your-server.de] has joined #openttd
18:14<@Bjarni>ln-: a vote for what?
18:14<@Bjarni>user stupidity level?
18:15<ln->Bjarni: speed versus apple-tab.
18:15<pv2b>ln-: adding apple-tab in fullscreen would make openttd slower?
18:16<@Bjarni>...
18:16<@Bjarni>you found something new to argue about :(
18:16<pv2b>no.
18:16<Gonozal_VIII>drop mac support for openttd, everything will be much easier then :-)
18:17<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: that's not really a solution. However listening to the users could be
18:17<@Bjarni>err
18:17<@Bjarni>stop listening to the users
18:17<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
18:17|-|waxman [~cfluegel@static.88-198-83-123.clients.your-server.de] has quit []
18:17<pv2b>Bjarni: i'm not going to argue about apple+tab support versus speed, that's a technical decision. i'm just surprised adding apple tab support *would* slow openttd down.
18:18|-|waxman [~cfluegel@static.88-198-83-123.clients.your-server.de] has joined #openttd
18:18<TX>1 question.. I have awful reputation in almost each cities? what I did wrong and what I should do? ))
18:18<pv2b>it's intereting because i notice many games don't support apple+tab when they're running fullscreen, and i've always wondered why.
18:18<@Bjarni>oh now I know what you mean
18:18<@Bjarni>no we will not have a vote about this
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>don't blow up trees tx
18:18|-|waxman [~cfluegel@static.88-198-83-123.clients.your-server.de] has quit []
18:18<TX>hmm
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>chicks dig trees
18:19<TX>and what I can do to increase reputation?
18:19<pv2b>Gonozal_VIII: wood is nice.
18:19<TX>statue? small compain?
18:19<pv2b>TX: trees.
18:19<pv2b>plant some
18:19|-|kwant [~kwant@161-bem-18.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd
18:19<TX>a lot?
18:19<pv2b>yeah.
18:19|-|kwant [~kwant@161-bem-18.acn.waw.pl] has quit []
18:19<pv2b>around the general area of the town
18:19<Gonozal_VIII>only until reputation is good
18:20<Gonozal_VIII>trees won't improve more
18:20<strstrep>The best way to increase reputation is to have a good passenger service in town.
18:20<pv2b>if that doesn't work, destroy all the towns in the general area of the town, that will send your reputation down so far it hits a minimum (i think)... but you have lots of space to put more trees
18:20<pv2b>i'm not sure if that's a bug *<;-)
18:20<TX>it takes long time? (with trees)
18:20<pv2b>nah, the effect should be immediate
18:20<strstrep>Trees are a good quick fix, but you can only do so much.
18:20<strstrep>Bribes help, but are costly and risky.
18:21<pv2b>err
18:21<Gonozal_VIII>reputation minimum should be way lower
18:21<pv2b>destroy all the trees i mean
18:21<TX>good passengrs communications don't work )
18:21<TX>for reput (
18:22<pv2b>passenger communications work but they take a long time
18:22<Gonozal_VIII>you can do almost anything with trees (good) but to clear some buildings requires very good (good through trees + a bribe)
18:22<strstrep>You probably lost a lot of reputation by destroying trees or raising / lowering lots of land.
18:22<pv2b>also why can't you place a through -stop for buses on town roads? that makes no sense.
18:23<Gonozal_VIII>you can, there's a patch option for that
18:23<pv2b>ah, nice.
18:24<Gonozal_VIII>or you can place a piece of railroad track over the road, blow it up and build the busstop then
18:25<strstrep>With a full load order, do trains first unload any deliverable cargo that they have before taking a full load?
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>yes
18:25<strstrep>Ok, thanks.
18:27<ln->01:15 < pv2b> ln-: adding apple-tab in fullscreen would make openttd slower? <-- somewhat, yes, if Bjarni is right
18:27<ln->01:18 <@Bjarni> no we will not have a vote about this <-- why not? it would make an excellent vote?
18:27<pv2b>because it's a technical decision, not a decision for stupid users to vote about *<:-)
18:27<@Bjarni>a vote is useless if you end up not listening to the result
18:28<@Bjarni>it's even worse than useless
18:28<@Bjarni>it makes real polls seem less interesting to the voters
18:28<Gonozal_VIII>vote4fun.openttd.org
18:28<@Bjarni>I don't like that URL
18:28<@Bjarni>let's vote for another one
18:29<pv2b>wildcard dns
18:29<Prof_Frink>[X] Bjarni for president!
18:29<pv2b>everything that's not already defined goes to that, then anyone can choose anything to go there
18:29<ln->pv2b: the point is, however, that one cannot apple-tab out of fullscreen OTTD because of the graphics API it is using.
18:30<@Bjarni>but using the other API is out of the question as it is right now because it's much slower
18:30<ln->and a patch exists to make it use another API, the same one as the windowed uses nowadays, and additionally it allows apple-tabing out of the game.
18:30<strstrep>ln-: Then use the patch.
18:30<@Bjarni>according to o... something (4 letters) it's unplayable
18:30<@Bjarni>on his mac
18:31<pv2b>i don't find that the fullscreen version is slower than the windowed version, but then maybe that might because my computer is only slightly sucky.
18:31<ln->Bjarni: i don't know any o..., and why should we care about one user's mac?
18:31<pv2b>i do find switching between fullscreen and windowed takes forever though, but that's not only openttd
18:31<@Bjarni>that's because we declared that we will use the fastest full screen driver
18:31[~]pv2b is not getting involved in this discussion
18:32<ln->pv2b: come on, it'll be fun.
18:32<pv2b>ln-: no.
18:32<@Bjarni>ln-: I care because while it's not unplayable on my computer it makes it noteworthy slower
18:32<reto>yeaaah.. fund town works again )
18:32<ln->it is purely evil that OTTD is allwed to take full control of the keyboard and mouse and screen and everything.
18:33<pv2b>if people want to be able to alt-tab out of openttd, run windowed
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18:33<pv2b>you can even run it maximised
18:33|-|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
18:33<ln->one can apple-tab out of every sensible fullscreen game..
18:33<@Bjarni>ln-: agreed but it's better than the alternative (too slow to be played)
18:33<strstrep>FWIW, I run OTTD windowed, maximized.
18:33<pv2b>ln-: i can name quite a few you can't
18:33<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is apple-tab?
18:33<pv2b>Gonozal_VIII: alt+tab for metrosexuals.
18:34<strstrep>Gonozal_VIII: Alt-tab for Mac users?
18:34<Gonozal_VIII>aaah
18:34<qball>I never r un openttd fullscreen
18:34<qball>I do run it maximized over 2 screens
18:34<Gonozal_VIII>don't need that, taskbar's still there with fullscreen
18:34<pv2b>Gonozal_VIII: not on os x.
18:34<ln->pv2b: but are they sensible then?
18:35<pv2b>ln-: run it maximised and stfu.
18:35<strstrep>ln-: Why not patch it yourself?
18:35<pv2b>ln-: don't force bjarni to slow down his openttd *<:-(
18:35<pv2b>ln-: or he'll be sad
18:36<@Bjarni>you can't force me... you don't have commit rights :P
18:36<strstrep>Hehe
18:36<Gonozal_VIII>he could steal your cpu and replace it with a slower one
18:36<strstrep>Well, that would be a crime.
18:37<ln->strstrep: stfu, i don't have commit rights so whether i patch it or not doesn't help others.
18:37<pv2b>oh, i know! he could buy Bjarni a new machine in exchange for patching that
18:37<@Bjarni>you can get a slower CPU than I already have?
18:37<strstrep>Bjarni: Touche.
18:37<pv2b>Bjarni: what are you on?
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18:37<@Bjarni>I don't do drugs
18:37<Gonozal_VIII>a snailbrain with pins^^
18:37<pv2b>Bjarni: in that case, what processor is inside your computer?
18:37<qball>I got a nice g3 laptop
18:38<qball>400mhz
18:38<@Bjarni>(CLASSIFIED)
18:38<@Bjarni>but I wouldn't mind a faster one
18:38<strstrep>Send all donations to ...?
18:38<Gonozal_VIII>some of those chips they found at roswell
18:39<pv2b>Gonozal_VIII: yeah, independence day already established aliens run Mac
18:40<@Bjarni>they do?
18:40<ln->including Bjarni
18:40<strstrep>Well, they established that you could infect the alien computer with a Mac.
18:40<strstrep>Assuming that Independence Day was true.
18:40<strstrep>And they were running Mac OS Classic.
18:41<pv2b>i bet you could finally build that g5 powerbook from the scraps of roswell
18:41<Gonozal_VIII>of course independence day was true.. the best way to hide facts is to make a hollywood film out of them
18:42<pv2b>or television series
18:42<pv2b>see stargate sg1 (wormhole x-treme.)
18:42<Gonozal_VIII>that's what i was thinking about^^
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18:44<Gonozal_VIII>btw did you notice that in most of those hollywood films where the world is in danger, be it aliens, asteroids, earthquakes, volcanos, anything, the only thing that can save us is a nuclear weapon?
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18:44<strstrep>Or Samuel L. Jackson (see Snakes on a Plane, among others)
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>^^
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>i couldn't believe that was a real film the first time i heard the title
18:45<ln->we shouldn't forget the name of Steven Seagal
18:46<Prof_Frink>It's amazing that it hadn't been made earlier, with such a simple concept
18:46<strstrep>It was such a terrible movie, that's why. Though that hasn't stopped them in the past.
18:47[~]Prof_Frink can just imagine the movie pitch: "It's on a plane, and there are snakes. We haven't worked out the minor details yet."
18:48<murray>i'm looking forward to the sequel
18:48<murray>Snakes on EVERY plane
18:48<Gonozal_VIII>there were details?
18:48<strstrep>The sequel to Snakes on a Plane: Snakes on EVERY Plane. It's much worse. We promise.
18:48<Prof_Frink>murray: Thank you.
18:48<murray>don't thank me, thank xkcd
18:48<murray>http://xkcd.com/107/
18:48<Prof_Frink>More data points in favour of Randall's Law
18:48<strstrep>Beat me ;-)
18:50<murray>i bet it got real quiet here now because everyone started browsing xkcd
18:50<murray>^^
18:51<reto>what does 'invalid chunk size' mean when I load a savegame?
18:52<Prof_Frink>murray: Hey, it's hardly our fault that xkcd is awesome
18:53<murray>true
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18:56<strstrep>Stop.
18:56<strstrep>Hammertime.
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19:01<murray>hammerTime();
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>stop()
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>;
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>i always forget the ;
19:03<murray>aye, tell me about it
19:04<ln->wtf, i just crashed my computer *twice* with a user-space program without root access.
19:05<pv2b>call bugtraq
19:06<+glx><reto> what does 'invalid chunk size' mean when I load a savegame? <-- savegame contains more (or less) data than it should
19:06<reto>glx: and what exactly does 'as it should mean' :) what source file could have been changed to cause this?
19:06<+glx>usually savegame created in a different branhc
19:07<ln->can someone suggest an OSX topic to argue about?
19:07<strstrep>ln-: Are you here just for flame wars?
19:07<Sacro>i know i am :)
19:07<ln->strstrep: of course not.
19:08<Sacro>strstrep: he's here for the free biscuits at the end
19:08<strstrep>ln-: At the end of the test, you will be baked, and there will be cake.
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19:12<valhallasw>ln-: what probram? :D
19:13<valhallasw>simple forkbomb or what? :P
19:16<reto>can anybody tell what in this patch breaks the looading of old savegames? http://rafb.net/p/6mEzcb43.html (only 300 lines) patch was not written by me
19:16<reto>oops, a second too early, haven't verified myself yet
19:16<reto>(checking....
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19:18<reto>jap
19:18<reto>does't work
19:19<reto>trunk can load savegame, trunk + patch can't
19:19<reto>I'm just wondering what exactly is causing it
19:20<Rubidium_>the first chunk
19:21<reto>the settings?
19:21<reto>hmm
19:22<ln->valhallasw: probram?
19:22<ln->me not speak your languwich
19:22<valhallasw>program >_<
19:22<ln->i just noticed simply opening /dev/ttyUSB0 is enough
19:40<reto>hmm I change this 65 to 80 :(
19:40<reto>the savegame value..
19:41<murray>damn desync
19:42<reto>hmm or how to pick a new version nr?
19:46<reto>starting from v84 the patch works on existing savegames
19:46<reto>created with HEAD.. so I guess this is the next free number?
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20:00<Wolf01|AWAY>'night
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20:05<Sacro>whoah
20:06<Sacro>a game with current date December 11139
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20:14<reto>Assertion failed: (sd != NULL), function PatchesSelectionWndProc, file /Users/reto/scripts/openttd/src/settings_gui.cpp, line 816.
20:14<reto>I get that when I change the 'from' field from 65 to 84
20:15<reto>I'm doing something completly wrong :(
20:15<+glx>what is exactly your change?
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20:16<reto>glx: I'm trying to fix a patch which adds another setting
20:16<reto>when the patch last time was fixed it was using the version '65'
20:16<+glx>I mean the change in settings
20:17<reto>http://rafb.net/p/0z0ELe64.html
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20:23<+glx>well you put 84 instead 65, but you must increase SAVEGAME_VERSION too
20:23|-|bumblebee [~nnscript@ti0117a340-0253.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd
20:23<bumblebee>hello, anyone got time for a quick question? :)
20:24<Gonozal_VIII>no
20:24<Gonozal_VIII>;-)
20:24<Gonozal_VIII>just ask
20:25<bumblebee>i can`t remember how i can auto-replace my car when they get old, can`t even remember if its possible, is it? :P
20:25<bumblebee>*car`s
20:26<Gonozal_VIII>it is, in the vehicle list, dropdown menu bottom middle
20:26<ln->bumblebee: you are using the wrong apostrophe (`). the correct one is '.
20:26<ln->and definitely an apostrophe doesn't belong to the plural of car.
20:27<bumblebee>but that`s only when i get a newer model to replace it with isnt it?
20:27<Gonozal_VIII>you can also replace them with older models if you want to...
20:27<ln->bumblebee: please use the proper apostrophe. it's the one next to the return (enter) key.
20:28<reto>glx: ah
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20:29<+glx>bumblebee: what you want seems to be autorenew, you enable it in patches settings
20:30<bumblebee>hmm give me a sec
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20:32<reto>works, thanks glx
20:32<bumblebee>were it says "autoreplace when vehice(<-- grammar error?) x months before max age?
20:32<+glx>yes
20:33<bumblebee>excellent :) ty very much
20:35<bumblebee>i get really tired when i have to replace all of them manually :)
20:36<bumblebee>gn
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21:05<strstrep>Hehehe that's funny
21:05<Gonozal_VIII>hahahahaha
21:17<strstrep>GUI bugs can produce interesting-looking results.
21:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11725 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Codechange: less a magical number
21:46<strstrep>I have to give it to you guys, figuring out a general idea of what is going on in the code wasn't so bad.
21:47<G>opps, I left breakdowns enabled it seems in a dedicated server, how can I disable them?
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22:01<Eddi|zuHause3>G: load game in local client, change setting, load in server
22:07<G>ouch
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23:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11726 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Feature[newGRF]: Extend the Action 5, feature 0D usage. Patch by BigBB
23:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11727 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttd.nfo shore.nfo shore.pcx): -Change: Add the new graphics and nfo file for missing shore
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 31 00:00:35 2007