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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-07

---Logopened Mon Jan 07 00:00:54 2008
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00:11<Gonozal_VIII>why would you want to fund factories close to farms... transporting that stuff further away generates much more money
00:16<Gonozal_VIII>you could want farms + factory on one side of the map and the same on the other side to avoid empty vehicles on the way back...
00:18<Gonozal_VIII>that's not easy... you need full load order to get high rating but when both sides have unbalanced production, most trains wait on one side...
00:19<Gonozal_VIII>what happened to the patch where you could set: leave station if x other trains are loading or load for max y days?
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02:39<peter__>lo
02:40<Gonozal_VIII>ru
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02:43<robotboy>barb
02:43<Gonozal_VIII>:S
02:44<Gonozal_VIII>barb?
02:44<robotboy>you said ru so I say barb
02:44<robotboy>and peter__ said lo
02:44<robotboy>look at his user page on the ottd wiki
02:47<Gonozal_VIII>aaah
02:47<Gonozal_VIII>had to google wtf rhubarb is
02:50<Gonozal_VIII>i had no idea what lo was supposed to mean, the only thing that came into my mind was "links oben" where i replied ru for "rechts unten" :-)
02:51<Gonozal_VIII>where links is left, rechts is right, oben is top and unten is bottom
02:51<peter__>mmm, rhubarb
02:51<peter__>lo is short for 'lo is short for hello
02:52<robotboy>yum
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02:52<Gonozal_VIII>aaaaah i c lo 2 u 2
02:52<peter__>what?
02:53<Gonozal_VIII>i see, hello to you too ;-)
02:53<peter__>no no no, you're doing it wrong
02:54<Gonozal_VIII>you can't do that wrong, it's wrong by design
02:54<Gonozal_VIII>;-)
02:54<peter__>so don't do it
02:55<peter__>or i shall have to figure out how to get ops here ;p
02:55<Gonozal_VIII>hey, you started it :P
02:55<peter__>no, "lo" is just a (spoken) abbreviation, not txtspk
02:56<Gonozal_VIII>spoken? didn't hear it ;-)
02:56<peter__>i did
02:57<robotboy>laugh out loud
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02:57<peter__>actually i did say "lol" once instead of laughing :o
02:57<Gonozal_VIII>me too^^
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02:58<peter__>bah, sacro didn't play on my nightly that i set up for him :(
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03:01<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=35658 <-- seen that suggestion? brilliant! could've been by me!
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03:07<peter__>why not just use buoys?
03:08<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't help yapf much
03:08<Gonozal_VIII>that would require the pathfinder to be dumber
03:09<Gonozal_VIII>and then you have to place a buoy on every corner.. naaah not funny
03:11<Noldo>there are better solutions to the ship pathfinding
03:11<Gonozal_VIII>but i thought about that too... that the pathfinder works kind of like bjarnis little pirate robot
03:12<Gonozal_VIII>and requests additional buoys if the simulated path doesn't leads where it should
03:12<Gonozal_VIII>-s
03:15<Gonozal_VIII>but then i had the shipping line idea... where you can define if a water tile should be used by ships or not...
03:15<Gonozal_VIII>after that i realised that it would be much easier to simply use canals in water for that
03:26<peter__>canals in water have other side effects thouggh
03:26[~]peter__ > work
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03:47<_Roujin>time to go for me, goodbye
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04:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11775 /trunk/src/ (22 files): -Codechange: move all autoreplace/autorenew functions to a single location.
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04:39<dih>can net_frame_freq have an influence on desyncs?
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04:41<Rubidium>dih: yes
04:41<dih>in what way?
04:41<dih>and thanks for a fast response Rubidium :-)
04:42<Rubidium>that the desyncs can be 'delayed' up to net_frame_freq frames
04:42<dih>so they will occure either way
04:42<dih>?
04:43<Rubidium>technically yes
04:43<dih>thank you :-)
04:45<Dominik>is it possible to specify a searchpath in the cfg file?
04:46<blathijs>Dominik: A searchpath for what?
04:47<Dominik>the standard data files
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04:48<Rubidium>very useful to leave at this moment...
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04:49<Dominik>sorry, disconnected
04:49<Rubidium>Dominik: the 'problem' is that the configuration file is technically (for ottd) a datafile too... so it's the famous chicken-egg-problem
04:49<Dominik>i want to load the value of e.g. SP_PERSONAL_DIR from openttd.cfg
04:50<dih>why?
04:50<Rubidium>SP_WORKING_DIR is 'easier'
04:50<Rubidium>unless you use OSX
04:50<dih>:-P
04:50[~]dih uses OS X
04:51<Dominik>ok, then i have to find a workaround. because on the ds the binary is loaded into ram as a whole. there are no paths at all, except on the external flash card
04:52<Dominik>and standard behavior for ds homebrew is to have a conig file in the root dir which tells the program where to load files from
04:52<Rubidium>that's a completely different 'problem' imo
04:53<Rubidium>what about making "root"/openttd.cfg a 'stub' with only the path to the place where all ottd files are?
04:54<Rubidium>then you can easily override SP_WORKING_DIR or whatever of those search paths to the place described in "root"/openttd.cfg without messing up the whole search path system
04:55<Dominik>if everything else fails i'll have to do that. but i'd prefer to have all configuration in one file
04:55<blathijs>Can't you set SP_WORKING_DIR with a commandline option?
04:56<Rubidium>the 'major' problem is that the configuration file is searched for after the search paths have been determined
04:56<blathijs>Or simply use the current working dir of the process?
04:56<Dominik>maybe i'll just put an extra line in the cfg file with the dir and parse that before anything else
04:56<blathijs>(I'm probably missing something essential here.. :-p)
04:57<Dominik>blathijs: there's no such thing as a working directory. imagine the game being started from a rom card
04:58<Dominik>in fact there's no directory structure (posix or other) at all. ^^
04:58<blathijs>In that case, you could add a commandline option to set SP_WORKING_DIR ?
04:59<Dominik>there's no command line. the game is loaded from rom without being able to pass any arguments
04:59<dih>hardcode it :-D
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05:00<Dominik>if i hardcode it, everyone is forced to use the paths that i chose
05:00<Dominik>but loading the cfg file twice should work. once in the beginning to find the path and once during the regular loading
05:02<dih>Rubidium, may i ask your personal oppinion on http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/r11767_network_nextgame_reload_cfg.diff ?
05:05<blathijs>Dominik: That's not all that different from how it works on other systems
05:05<blathijs>Dominik: You'll have to store your cfg in ~/.openttd on linux, for example
05:06<blathijs>Though there might be some cmd line option to override that, though
05:06<Rubidium>blathijs: there's not cmd line to do that
05:06<blathijs>Doesn't the DS have some generic configuration storage mechanism?
05:06<blathijs>In which you just can store a single value with the path of the other files
05:06<blathijs>?
05:06<Rubidium>but... if you already have a openttd.cfg in your current working directory or any of the other search paths, it will not place it in ~/.openttd/
05:07<Rubidium>dih: ieuw... vardef :(
05:08<Dominik>blathijs: well, commercial games have an area on the gamecards to store information. but it's not a "filesystem" a user could edit
05:08<dih>Rubidium: what else should i do?
05:09<Dominik>i'll get that to work, it's the least of my problems. i just wanted to check with you if there's a quick and easy cfg option i missed ;)
05:12<dih>_network_frame_freq is set in settings.cpp:1282 to default to 0 ?? how come?
05:13<UnderBuilder>now the livery newgrf is the one that gives the unsafe for static use
05:26<dih>Rubidium: you have any other suggestion how to do that without vardef?
05:28<Rubidium>you have absolutely no idea how to code something in C(++), haven't you?
05:28<Rubidium>vardef is just an ugly hack by someone who was lazy
05:31<dih>no - i dont :-) i just use what is around, read what is there and work with that
05:31<dih>wanted to add a network setting so copied from another network setting
05:32<dih>as i _assumed_ it would be ok to do so
05:32<dih>as it then would be the _same_ as something else already in use :-P
05:33<dih>_but_ i am eager to learn :-)
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05:42<dih>Rubidium: last 4 lines are all for you ^^
05:42<dih>*5 lines
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05:53<dih>Rubidium: vardef is used in 14 files...
05:56<Rubidium>you haven't noticed that the number of vardefs is declining?
05:56<dih>no
05:57<dih>but if i knew how, i would love to help
05:57<dih>i.e. if you tell me what to use instead, i'll happily send you a patch file that will get rid of them all :-D
05:58<dih>what say you to that Rubidium?
05:58<Rubidium>I rather do it myself as I otherwise have to carefully check where everything got moved to and such which probably takes more time than doing it myself
05:59<dih>oh
05:59<dih>ok
05:59<Rubidium>primarily because I do it whenever I'm reordering headers and such
05:59<dih>shame :-P
06:00<Rubidium>why?
06:00<Rubidium>not doing double (if not more) of the work is a shame?
06:01<dih>no - not being able to do it for you is a shame
06:02<dih>so in which file could i find an alternative to the vardef, so i could replace the one in that diff file?
06:05<Rubidium>the alternative is using defining it using extern and and declaring it somewhere in a .cpp file
06:06<dih> /somewhere/ ?
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06:07<dih>can you point me to a file and perhaps a line :-P
06:07<Roujin>what was the command to get the newest revision displayed here?
06:08<dih>@OpenTTD youngest
06:08<@DorpsGek>dih: latest: r11775
06:09<Roujin>hmm
06:09<Roujin>and to find out what a specific revision changed? ^^
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06:09<dih>@list OpenTTD
06:09<@DorpsGek>dih: bug, bugs, changed, commit, download, grf, grfs, info, port, ports, propset, servers, svn, thelog, and youngest
06:09<dih>choose your pick :-P
06:10<Roujin>@OpenTTD commit 11775
06:10<@DorpsGek>Roujin: Commit by rubidium :: r11775 /trunk/src (22 files) (2008-01-07 09:19:53 UTC)
06:10<@DorpsGek>Roujin: -Codechange: move all autoreplace/autorenew functions to a single location.
06:10<dih>you can also use thim privately, with /msg DorpsGek
06:10<Roujin>thanks for the info :)
06:11<Roujin>i'm not very used to irc :P
06:11<dih>:-P
06:11<dih>you'll get it :-P
06:12<Roujin>i hate myself for having so many ideas for patches i could do...
06:13<Roujin>i'll never get sleep T_T
06:13<dih>a game is never as important as my sleep
06:13<dih>if i really need the sleep...
06:14<Roujin>but i bet this one was already made by someone: when building a station, it shows what is "delivered", not only what is "accepted"
06:15<dih>yes - that is good
06:15<Roujin>but it has surely been done.. hasn't it?
06:15<dih>Rubidium: can you point me to a file (perhaps with a line) so i can see an example?
06:15<Roujin>i mean.. come on.. it's so - obvious?
06:15<dih>i have no idea
06:15<Rubidium>I can show you a line, but then you still would have no idea I guess
06:16<dih>c'mon - it's not like i have never written a patch for ottd
06:16<Rubidium>command.cpp:21
06:17[~]Digitalfox Investigates that line
06:17<dih>and that used to be a vardef ?
06:17<Rubidium>don't know
06:17<Roujin>but i just stumbled over something... appearently it doesn't work properly for some standard industries - namely oil wells and SOME coal mines
06:18[~]dih will give it a try :-P
06:18<Roujin>i guess there must be something wrong with the function GetProductionAroundTiles...
06:19<Roujin>it works for all newgrf industries and for all standard industries except the oil wells and SOME coal mines
06:19<Roujin>SOME = appearently depending on which layout it has
06:19<Roujin>strange...
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06:24<dih>Sacro is infesting the channel.... oO
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06:51<Wolf01>hello
07:01<dih>:-)
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07:13<dih>heh - it works ;-P
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07:42<Roujin>so, brought out another patch :P
07:42<Roujin>now i'm off, see you all
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08:13<@Bjarni>hehe... when reading a commit log for something that lacks a policy like ours to actually write what the commit is about can be "interesting" at times
08:13<@Bjarni>- Small fix to make code work as intended. <--- isn't this what all fixes is supposed to do?
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08:14<@Bjarni>and... what is it trying to fix? :)
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08:17<Sacro>i've gone from a north to a south facing room
08:17<Sacro>you really notice the difference
08:22[~]Bjarni is in a room facing both north and south
08:22<@Bjarni>beat that :P
08:22<@Bjarni>oh an it's facing east too
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08:23<@Bjarni>in fact it's facing all directions except the direction towards Sacro. This can't be a random thing :p
08:23<Sacro>well, i have a north facing window
08:23<Sacro>i think i have 3 external walls too :(
08:23<@Bjarni>you *think*?
08:24<@Bjarni>don't you know?
08:24<Sacro>i've not looked outside yet :p
08:24<Sacro>i have at least 2
08:24<Sacro>at most 3
08:24<@Bjarni>where are you?
08:24<@Bjarni>at home?
08:24<Sacro>my new room
08:24<Sacro>i moved yesterdya
08:24<@Bjarni>ohh
08:24<@Bjarni>to a new building?
08:24<Sacro>yep
08:25<Sacro>hot northern irish girl in this house
08:25<@Bjarni>got tired of getting rice every day?
08:25<Sacro>i love rice
08:25<Sacro>but my rice cooker is going back to China :(
08:25<@Bjarni>ohh
08:25<Sacro>well, the biological one is
08:25<Sacro>she's leaving me an electrical one
08:26<@Bjarni>those should be rather good
08:26<@Bjarni>well... some of them at least
08:26<Sacro>yes, they are
08:26<murray>:)
08:27<@Bjarni>Sacro: http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=3528 <-- you can even make more than just rice in it
08:27<@Bjarni>(no, I'm not going to translate the recipes... it's watch and learn :p )
08:28<@Bjarni>I would try this but I lack a proper rice cooker
08:29<@Bjarni>if I ever go to Asia then I might buy one
08:30<@Bjarni>hmm
08:31<@Bjarni>Sacro: about that rice cooker... do they use 230V in China?
08:31<@Bjarni>or 50 Hz for that matter
08:31<Sacro>she uses a plug converter
08:32<Sacro>but then her laptop will probably be 110-240
08:32<Sacro>@ 50-60
08:32<@Bjarni>they are making more and more that operates on 90-250V and 47-63 Hz
08:32<@Bjarni>one product to fit the entire world
08:33<@Bjarni>but it will not work well with heating elements
08:33<@Bjarni>it works with electronics and stuff like that that has to convert the voltage anyway
08:34<@Bjarni>Japan is feared when it comes to power frequency... they couldn't settle for either 50 or 60 Hz... so they use both >_<
08:35<@Bjarni>their powergrid is 50 Hz and the end transformers has AC-DC-AC converters to make 60 Hz and then the buildings can get both
08:35<@Bjarni>I think they are trying to get rid of 60 Hz though
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08:40<LA[lord]>hello
08:42<dih>hi
08:43<dih>hello Bjarni
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09:11<@Bjarni>hello dih
09:12<LA[lord]>what it takes to get a good sprite? Drawing skill... What do I lack? -"-
09:13<@Bjarni>a graphical editing app
09:13<LA[lord]>Gimp is very good...
09:13<@Bjarni>that can read png and use custom palette
09:14<LA[lord]>I guess it's drawing skill I lack...
09:14<LA[lord]>bah.. :(
09:14<Wolf01>i use graphics gale
09:15<LA[lord]>I can always try to draw again but at some poit, it gets useless, if other guys can do it ten times better ...
09:15<@Bjarni>LA[lord]: oh it would be a good thing to have a working grfcodec too
09:16[~]LA[lord] checks his grfcodec....wait a mom, he asked for what it takes for a good sprite...
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09:17<@Bjarni>well
09:17<LA[lord]>no actually it's the last time I try to draw rail depot..from scratch..it this is a failure too I'll make something else
09:18<@Bjarni>technically it's not needed to have the codec but it's usually a good idea
09:18<LA[lord]>You can post the sprites and let smb else code it, if you don't know nfo ...
09:18<@Bjarni>bugging everybody else to encode stuff for you might not be an ideal solution
09:19<@Bjarni>alternatively you can code support for XML based sprite additions to the game ;)
09:19<LA[lord]>then it seems to be fortunate that I have learned nfo and have grfcodec
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09:19<LA[lord]>you saw my thread about futuristic graphics system?
09:19<LA[lord]>It was atleast three months ago I suggested it :D
09:19<LA[lord]>or something like that, similar
09:20<LA[lord]>anyway, less talk, more drawing...
09:20<LA[lord]>I'll present you with something in some time
09:21[~]Bjarni notes to watch new graphics next month
09:21<LA[lord]>next month?
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09:22<@Bjarni>yeah
09:22<@Bjarni>when you are done
09:24<LA[lord]>grr...'
09:24<LA[lord]>If I draw, I draw quickly
09:24<ludde>when did i release the first openttd?
09:24<LA[lord]>(that explains the quality of my production though)
09:25<@Bjarni>err
09:25<@Bjarni>early 2004
09:25<ludde>really?
09:25<Rubidium>openttd-0.1.1 on sf is of 13-03-2004
09:25<ludde>aha, interesting.
09:26<@Bjarni> openttd-0.1.1 Notes (2004-03-13 15:00)
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09:26<ludde>apparently i started work on it 2002
09:27<ludde>and the first version i gave to orudge was in march 2003
09:27|-|Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-193-46-fixip.tiscali.ch] has joined #openttd
09:28<ludde>apparently then i stopped working on it for exactly one year :)
09:28<@Bjarni>why?
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09:29<ludde>dunno
09:29<ludde>i guess i had abanboned it
09:29<ludde>but then all the publicity around the open sourcing gave me back some inspiration
09:30<ludde>2004-03-06: orudge: Sorry to keep nagging... but is anything going to happen with your TT reverse engineering/reconstruction?
09:30<@orudge>heh
09:30<@Belugas>hurray for that :)
09:30<@orudge>yes, indeed
09:30<ludde>2004-03-06: orudge: It's just it's very good, and it's a shame that it's doing nothing ;)
09:30<@orudge>I still have those logs somewhere
09:31<ludde>then i replied:
09:31<ludde>I can't tell, right now it's not on my list of prioritized projects
09:31<ludde>i don't have any plans to work on it, but maybe i change my mind in the future.
09:31<@Bjarni>I have a download of svn from the 15th of March 2004... the date I started porting OpenTTD
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09:32<@orudge>Session Start (ICQ - xxxxxx): Thu Mar 06 17:07:58 2003
09:32<@orudge>xxxx: hello,
09:32<@orudge>you probably don't know me, but i've been working on reverse engineering ttd for a while.
09:32<@orudge>¬_¬
09:32<@orudge>I still have those old code snapshots and so on
09:32<ludde>http://home.strigeus.com/ttd.rar <-- my first cvs repo
09:32<@orudge>I never uploaded anything earlier than what was released as 0.1 though
09:33<ludde>probably lacks some stuff from the widget directory, unless i'm missing something
09:33<@Bjarni>how did you know that I'm searching for my HD for my old OTTD stuff right now?
09:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11776 /trunk/src/ (25 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: more header splittings to reduce the dependencies.
09:33<@orudge>funky
09:33<@Bjarni>but it's most likely without the stuff I'm looking for :/
09:33<ludde>belugas asked me about it
09:33<ludde>(privately)
09:33<ludde>maybe he asked you too?
09:34<@Bjarni>sort of :)
09:34[~]Bjarni still wonders where he put the complete commit log of the old svn server
09:35<@Belugas>yeah... I'm looking at all the infos i can gather :)
09:35<@orudge>oh, and OpenTTD 0.1 never made it to SourceForge, but is available at http://www.tt-forums.net/openttd/openttd-0.1.zip
09:35<@orudge>iirc
09:35|-|frosch123 [~mtce@kolmogoroff.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd
09:36<frosch123>Hello everyone
09:36<@Belugas>got that one, plus the the r607 snapshot
09:36<@Belugas>hello frosch :D
09:38[~]Belugas will install cvs tonight at home :)
09:39[~]orudge is just doing something
09:39<@orudge>which you may find useful
09:40<Sacro>is 0.1 playable online?
09:40<@orudge>no
09:40<Sacro>darn :p
09:41<Sacro>i wanted it on the master server
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09:41<Sacro>to see if anyone noticed
09:42<LA[lord]>but what is the first mp proof revision then...
09:43<@Belugas>3.4 or 3.6 was online only, iirc
09:43<@Belugas>0.3.4...
09:43<@Belugas>of course...
09:45<DaleStan>Sacro: Well, you could just compile your own version (or even hex-edit a compiled one) so "0.5.3" becomes "0.1.0".
09:45<@Belugas>and 0.3.6 was more stable as much as network operations
09:45<@orudge>earlier versions did have networking support
09:45<@orudge>just not very good support :P
09:46<LA[lord]>heh
09:47<@Belugas>ok... good to know. My fisrt contact with ottd was on 0.3.4
09:49<@orudge>fo those who are interested: http://www.tt-forums.net/openttd/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi
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09:52[~]Belugas salutes orudge's initiative :D
09:53<peter__>heh, silly cvs revisions
09:54<@orudge>quite
09:54<peter__>couldn't do nightlies with that
09:54<ludde>it feels so sad that it was like 5 years ago...
09:54<@orudge>time does fly
09:55<ludde>and scummvm was even longer...
09:56<peter__>and now look at the mess we've made of it
09:56<ludde>yeah
09:57<ludde>(or tbh.. i have no idea cause i havn't really looked at the source since I quit :p)
09:57<peter__>*cough*c++*cough*
09:58<ludde>didn't C work well enough?
09:58<dih>hey :-)
09:59<@Belugas>it's the first step toward migration to java
09:59<@Belugas>NOT ;)
09:59<@orudge>I still think we should rewrite OpenTTD in Whitespace ;D
09:59<+glx>C works well, but C++ has some nice features
09:59<ludde>C++ has a lot of anti-features too
09:59<+glx>right
10:02<dih>ludde: you dont like c++?
10:03|-|pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:04<ludde>i like some features
10:04<LA[lord]>I don't get what's the main differences between c and c++?
10:04<LA[lord]>both are similar aren't they?
10:05<frosch123>dih: If you like something, then you do not know it well enough :)
10:05[~]LA[lord] knows nothing about coding
10:05<Sacro>DaleStan: yes, thats true
10:05<Sacro>make RELEASE=foo
10:06<dih>frosch123: that is a very pesimistic approach
10:06<Sacro>dih: or cynical
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10:15<dih>r11777 compile error: src/unix.cpp:246: error: 'ttd_strlcpy' was not declared in this scope
10:15<Rubidium>lol ;)
10:15<pavel1269>!openttd
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10:15<pavel1269>@openttd
10:16<pavel1269>!help
10:16<pavel1269>@help
10:16<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
10:16<pavel1269>openttd
10:16<Sacro>@password
10:16<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: That operation cannot be done in a channel.
10:16<Sacro>ooh
10:16<pavel1269>wiki
10:16<pavel1269>!wiki
10:16<pavel1269>@wiki
10:17<pavel1269>hmm ...
10:17<pavel1269>@help wiki
10:17<@DorpsGek>pavel1269: Error: There is no command "wiki".
10:17<dih>@list
10:17<@DorpsGek>dih: Ctcp, Filter, Format, Math, Misc, OpenTTD, Scheduler, Seen, Topic, WT2, and XMLRPC
10:17<pavel1269>OpenTTD
10:17<pavel1269>@OpenTTD
10:17<dih>pavell: you can use those also in /msg DorpsGek <command>
10:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11778 /trunk/src/unix.cpp: -Fix: compiles with ICONV failed.
10:18<dih>:-)
10:18<pavel1269>he retire to tell me anything :))
10:18<dih>because you are not useing it correctly!
10:18<Rubidium>pavel1269: well... if it doesn't know what you want in a way it understands it, then no
10:18<LA[lord]>i!i!wiki and !password seem a lot like #openttdcoop channel ones...
10:19<Rubidium>but *WHY* do you want to know where the wiki is?
10:19<Rubidium>it's in the topic
10:19<LA[lord]>*spam and ham*
10:19<dih>Rubidium: are you surprised somone wants to read it?
10:19<dih>:-P
10:20<pavel1269>what it will write to me for command OpenTTD
10:20<pavel1269>i just tried if wiki works ?
10:20<dih>http://supybot.com/documentation/plugins/
10:20<dih>there you go :-)
10:23<LA[lord]>hmm...that supybot site has half estonian interface too :D
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10:26<dih>Rubidium: any better?
10:26<dih>http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/r11778_reload_cfg.diff
10:27<dih>hello skidd13
10:27<skidd13>Hi
10:27<LA[lord]>hi skidd
10:27<LA[lord]>15
10:27<@Belugas>dih: settings.cpp, not aligned
10:27<@Belugas>view your diff, look at it
10:28<@Belugas>console_cmds.cpp too
10:28<@Belugas>openttd.cpp, some trailing white spaces
10:28<@Belugas>you don't know how frustrating those are while commiting :S
10:29<+glx>I know the feeling :)
10:29<@Belugas>lol
10:29<dih>thank you Belugas
10:30<@Belugas>i almost rejected last stuff from Sirkoz when it failed, so pissed off i was ;)
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10:30<dih>:-P
10:31<LA[lord]>my gawd...whats wrong with me :(?
10:31<LA[lord]>I can't make any rail depots...not to speak draw beautiful things...
10:32<peter__>http://fuzzle.org/o/engines3.png
10:32<peter__>pom-te-pom
10:32<peter__>though that only means anything if you're familiar with newgrf sets
10:32<Rubidium>*or* know what peter__ has been doing lately
10:33<@Belugas>most likely the latter :)
10:33<skidd13>Rubidium: true true :D
10:33<@Belugas>in my case, at least ;)
10:33<LA[lord]>it's the UKRS set?
10:34<dih>how's that :-P http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/r11778_reload_cfg.diff
10:34<peter__>some of it, yes
10:35<skidd13>LA[lord]: to be clear not only :D
10:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11779 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Fix: win32 compile failed. Also removed a duplicate include
10:36<LA[lord]>but.. two sets :S ...ahh I see ..It's peter_... a new patch?
10:37<@Belugas>dih, code style wise, i've got nothing more to say
10:37<peter__>3 sets actually
10:38<+glx>was about to say at least 3 (UKRS, DBSET, and probably NARS)
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10:39<LA[lord]>bah...I'm not very good at guessing what grfs might be in use :D
10:39<peter__>ukrs, canset and dbset
10:40<+glx>hey I was half right (it's an north american one ;) )
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10:54<Rubidium>so when you say Czech railset and it is DBset you're half-right?
10:55<+glx>I guessed it from engine names
10:56<+glx>Czech one is narrow gauge IIRC
10:56<Vikthor>it is not
10:57<Vikthor>or at least it is not intended as such
11:00<@Bjarni>back
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11:15<peter__>gah, hungry
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11:21<icc>I just compiled on linux (with all req. stuff) copied files put when trying to start dedicated openttd just exits for no reason? help?
11:22<skidd13>icc: any output in the console?
11:23<icc>nope
11:23<icc>just $ ./openttd and then $ again
11:24<skidd13>any instances of openttd running?
11:24<icc>no =/
11:24<icc>I'm trying to recompile now without the prefix and dedicated options
11:28<peter__>./openttd -D
11:28<peter__>even a dedicated build needs -D, apparently
11:28<peter__>possibly something i broke ;)
11:29<murray>i was wondering about that
11:29<murray>-d did nothing :p
11:29<peter__>-d is debug
11:29<murray>then what is -D ?
11:29<hylje>-Dedicated
11:29<murray>oh
11:29<hylje>basically openttd with a null blitter
11:30<peter__>i can fix that actually
11:34<murray>how goes it icc?
11:34<icc>there we go
11:36<murray>:)
11:37<icc>:')
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11:41<Gonozal_VIII>train 7 is lost, train 3 is loster but train 13 is the lostest by far
11:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11780 /trunk/src/video/dedicated_v.h: -Codechange: When compiling a dedicated server build, select the dedicated video driver by default.
11:42<peter__>lostest? he
11:42<Gonozal_VIII>that's why i wrote that, wanted to use those words^^
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12:24<Gonozal_VIII>pavels avatar always increases the time it takes me to read new posts... bad pavel
12:25<LA[lord]>:D
12:25<LA[lord]>gotta blame somebody for slow reading eh?
12:26<Gonozal_VIII>can't read faster while laughing :P
12:26<dih>purpose of extend_vehicle_life?
12:26<LA[lord]>:D...
12:27<LA[lord]>watch this avatar :D
12:27<LA[lord]>http://www.tt-forums.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14268
12:27<Gonozal_VIII>dih... to avoid vehicle_resurrection
12:28<dih>?
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12:28<Gonozal_VIII>hehe yes, that one is good too
12:28<dih>nice avatar by the way
12:28<dih>Gonozal: it takes int's but what they mean?
12:29<dih>years to extend vehicles live by?
12:29<Gonozal_VIII>no idea? maybe a factor
12:29<Gonozal_VIII>leftover part from a daylength patch^^
12:29<dih>e->lifelength = ei->lifelength + _patches.extend_vehicle_life;
12:30<dih>that is in engine.cpp
12:30<Gonozal_VIII>straaange
12:30[~]dih snuffles
12:31<Gonozal_VIII>look where that _patches.extend_vehicle_life value comes from
12:31<dih>the config
12:31<dih>and it's not in the gui
12:31<Gonozal_VIII>config? haven't seen that line there
12:31<dih>settings.cpp
12:32<dih>line 1473
12:32<Gonozal_VIII>wow... it is in the config
12:32<Gonozal_VIII>extend_vehicle_life = 0
12:33<Gonozal_VIII>and it works..
12:34<Gonozal_VIII>but what's the point :S
12:34<dih>that is what i am asking
12:35<Gonozal_VIII>well... you can set it to 1000 and never worry about autorenew costs...
12:37<dih>max value is 100
12:37<Gonozal_VIII>ok... i tested it with 100
12:38<pavel1269>Gonozal_VIII: hehe
12:38<pavel1269>but i have much better ones ;)
12:39<dih>and?
12:39<Gonozal_VIII>[18:33:47] Guest2349: and it works..
12:39<dih>it add's 100 years to the engine's life?
12:39<Gonozal_VIII>all vehicles hat 100 years more
12:39<Gonozal_VIII>-t+d
12:40<Gonozal_VIII>not only trains, everything from rvs to planes
12:41<dih>updated the wiki
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12:52<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm why do i have stuff like daylength and seafloor in my config
12:57<@Belugas>looks like you're playing with too many patches ;)
12:58<Gonozal_VIII>naaah default nightly
12:58<Gonozal_VIII>i guess i copied the cfg around too much
12:58<@Belugas>that could be
12:59<LA[lord]>why do you copy your cfg then I might ask...
12:59<LA[lord]>(but I won't)
12:59<Gonozal_VIII>because i don't want to lose the settings?
13:00<LA[lord]>hmm...putting one cfg to local openttd folder should do the trick... Same settings for every nighlty
13:01<Gonozal_VIII>i don't want that
13:01<LA[lord]>and then you don't have to copy sample.cat and other trg*r.grfs too anymore...local openttd folder/data
13:01<LA[lord]>and then put the grfs there
13:01<LA[lord]>so you won't have zillion copys of same newgrfs in example...
13:02<LA[lord]>and if you want to change settings for one specific nightly then cfg in installation dir will have priority
13:02<+glx>LA[lord]: you can have many openttd.cfg and only one grf dir
13:02<LA[lord]>?
13:02<LA[lord]>in local folder?
13:03<+glx>puts all grfs in mydocs/openttd/data
13:03<+glx>and openttd.cfg in install dir
13:04<LA[lord]>..but then I indeed have to 1. ReSet all things if I get new nightly or 2. Mess with copying cfg file...As I don't change settings very often I find the way I described much easier...I just download nighlty, unzip it and start playing
13:05<Gonozal_VIII>i unpack the nightlies in the same directory all the time
13:05<LA[lord]>I don't
13:06<+glx>then use the global openttd.cfg
13:06<LA[lord]>The folder name will be different every time because the revision changes
13:06<Gonozal_VIII>i change the folder name too, but what has that to do with where i unpack it?
13:06<LA[lord]>glx, I do use global cfg and global grfs :) and I thank you for this, because I find it very handy
13:07<LA[lord]>Gonozal_VIII: Extract here will make a new folder which has new name...Because the archives include folder and only then the data'
13:08<Gonozal_VIII>i don't extract it with extract, i open the archive and drag the data into the folder
13:09<LA[lord]>and there comes the difference :D
13:09<Gonozal_VIII>overwrite question... yes to all... yay, new nightly
13:10<LA[lord]>or dl, extract, yay new nightly
13:10<Gonozal_VIII>but old one still there
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13:10<LA[lord]>and If I want, I might delete the old one later
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13:29<Gonozal_VIII>rail_look_ahead_signal_p1 = -100 <-- negative yapf penalty? i thought that doesn't work
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13:35<blathijs>Gonozal_VIII: Proper A* implementations don't like that
13:35<blathijs>Gonozal_VIII: Though it might work out of the net cost of a tile (ie, base cost + penalties) remains positive
13:36<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
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13:50<peter__>re
13:53<pavel1269>anyone here can make a server and want to play? :P
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13:55<LA[lord]>"Bjarni notes to watch new graphics next month" -> you can watch it right now too :)
13:55<LA[lord]>I present you this... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35310&p=654291#p654291
13:56<LA[lord]>I know that the shading is weird in lot's of places, but this is a subject to change later I guess
13:58<peter__>make is playing on his server
13:58<peter__>err
13:58[~]peter__ is playing on his server
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm you can even put the lang folder into the global dir...
13:59<pavel1269>peter__: what server what verion :P
13:59<peter__>11769 (atm)
14:00<pavel1269>will you play or just testing sth?
14:00<peter__>playing
14:00<pavel1269>omw :o)
14:00<peter__>although i think we're due a new nightly any second...
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14:01<LA[lord]>it's 21:00 here...
14:01<peter__>yeah
14:02<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm it doesn't look for newgrf in the global dir if there's a data folder
14:03<pavel1269>server down or not public? :(
14:03<peter__>recompiling for new nightly, 11780
14:03<pavel1269>:-/
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14:15<LA[lord]>hmm..my rail depots have been up there for 21 minutes now, but still no comments...
14:17[~]LA[lord] feels terribly ignored and goes raising his postcount at off-topic
14:18<Gonozal_VIII>you should add some screenshots, sprites look strange with that blue transparency stuff
14:21<LA[lord]>which means I still have to a) code them right now b) gimp them together...
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14:22<Gonozal_VIII>code... you can't really call that coding^^
14:23<@Belugas>LA[lord], i do not like much the grey base. just an impression, no real reason
14:23<@Belugas>Gonozal_VIII, it is coding, since it is a language :)
14:24<peter__>coding is varaction 2 chains :D
14:24<Gonozal_VIII>the grey stuff is ok... concrete foundations
14:25<Gonozal_VIII>it's bad to have wood down to the ground because the rain "jumps" back up from the ground :-)
14:26<LA[lord]>peter_ coding is also messing an hour with getting offsets right :D
14:26<hylje>magic numbers
14:27<peter__>they're easy if you actually understand what they are
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>you don't have to do any coding, just place it into trg1r
14:28<Gonozal_VIII>same position, same size... works just fine
14:28<LA[lord]>Gonozal_VIII: Why do it the easy way, if I can do it the hard way?
14:28<LA[lord]>:D
14:29<hylje>less effort
14:29<LA[lord]>peter_: I guess I should make more use of print screen and GIMP measurment tool :) ...
14:29<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think he wanted an answer to that question hylje
14:29<LA[lord]>hylje: but what if my sprites aren't the same size as it happens usually :D
14:30<peter__>^S is easier...
14:30<peter__>actually
14:30<peter__>xmag is easier
14:30<Gonozal_VIII>you should make more use of the original file, the sizes and coordinates are already there
14:30<LA[lord]>what's ^S ?
14:31<Gonozal_VIII>not same size = bad
14:31<LA[lord]>Gonozal_VIII: For the rail depot they want it to be whole tile big so it's more or less "tileable"
14:31<Gonozal_VIII>but not much of a problem, same coordinates, change the size.. there is enough white around the sprites
14:32<peter__>LA[lord], ^S is ctrl-s
14:32<LA[lord]>:)
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>^ seems to be a lot...
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>power... xor... ctrl..
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>eyebrow..
14:34<LA[lord]>..something up there?....
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire
14:35<LA[lord]>burn mothers, yuck!!eww!!!, burnn
14:35<Roujin>and i always thought ^ was an accent used e.g. in french... :P
14:36<pavel1269>peter__: can't join i am missiong 2NewGRFs
14:37<pavel1269>:(
14:38<LA[lord]>which ones?
14:38<pavel1269>canadian station set
14:38<pavel1269>3c
14:38<pavel1269>and something ... GRVTS
14:38<peter__>both are on grfcrawler
14:38<pavel1269>good
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14:46[~]LA[lord]_ 's jaw just dropped open
14:47<Gonozal_VIII>better close it before some insects/spiders crawl in
14:47[~]LA[lord]_ admired the new tropic terrain
14:47[~]LA[lord]_ closed his mouth
14:48<LA[lord]_>arghhh!!!! too laterrggh...
14:48<Gonozal_VIII>they'll lay their eggs in you!
14:49<Gonozal_VIII>can you feel them crawling under your skin?
14:49[~]LA[lord]_ has a nice cute rabbit colony living in his stomach
14:49<LA[lord]_>don't ask how rabbit's EGGS got there
14:49<LA[lord]_>it isn't even easter yet
14:51<Gonozal_VIII>what came first? the egg or the rabbit=
14:51<Gonozal_VIII>?
14:51<hylje>the turtle, Gonozal_VIII
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>through svn?
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14:53<LA[lord]>svn co svn://egg.rabbit.co.uk/trunk ?
14:54<Gonozal_VIII>the easter bunnies aren't in the uk
14:54<Gonozal_VIII>obviously they are in toyland
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14:56<Gonozal_VIII>toyland is .tl
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15:00<LA[lord]>svn co svn://egg.rabbi.turtle.tl/easter ?
15:02<Gonozal_VIII>only for jews
15:02<LA[lord]>:D
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15:02<LA[lord]>I notticed that yes :)
15:03<LA[lord]>the rabbi was unintentional...really
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15:12[~]LA[lord] is back from supper
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15:25<Gonozal_VIII>you scared them all away la
15:25<pavel1269>:)
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15:31<LA[lord]>lalala lala...Me? no way.. I only ping and whing too much, never scare anybody
15:32<LA[lord]>anyway, I /ok not coded but/ made the grf and added screenshot to the thread
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15:33<Gonozal_VIII>i know nothing of any thread nowhere
15:34<Gonozal_VIII>never
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15:34<LA[lord]>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35310&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=380
15:34<LA[lord]>I mean THE thread
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15:35<LA[lord]>the only thread which is already proved to be useful
15:35<LA[lord]>I mean look at my post count...it has increased terribly since I started the hread
15:36<peter__>quality, not quantity...
15:37<LA[lord]>:D
15:37<Gonozal_VIII>[20:17:17] * LA[lord] feels terribly ignored and goes raising his postcount at off-topic
15:37<LA[lord]>:D
15:38<LA[lord]>oh thanks for reminding me that
15:38[~]LA[lord] has some spam to do
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15:42<LA[lord]>who is now scaring people huh?, Gonozal_VIII
15:43<Gonozal_VIII>still you
15:43<Gonozal_VIII>:P
15:43[~]LA[lord] thinks that he has spammed enough for today
15:43<LA[lord]>bah...
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15:43<LA[lord]>they look at your face and run...
15:43<LA[lord]>and you say I scare them of....
15:44<Gonozal_VIII>your roofs are wrooooong
15:45<Gonozal_VIII>^^
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15:48<LA[lord]>I mentioned that in the post... Gonozal_VIII
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15:49<Gonozal_VIII>they also have dark stuff at the tile borders
15:53[~]LA[lord] wrote: /Again, any tweaks or stuff is very welcome :)/
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15:54<Gonozal_VIII>can't, my eyes hurt
15:54<LA[lord]>?
15:54<LA[lord]>because of my depot?
15:55<Gonozal_VIII>^^
15:55<Gonozal_VIII>because of not enough sleep
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17:00<Eddi|zuHause2># init 6
17:00<Eddi|zuHause2>segmentation fault
17:00<Eddi|zuHause2>ha ha, very funny ;)
17:00|-|SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:00<Eddi|zuHause2>brb, system crashed
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17:06<dih>@list OpenTTD
17:06<@DorpsGek>dih: bug, bugs, changed, commit, download, grf, grfs, info, port, ports, propset, servers, svn, thelog, and youngest
17:06<dih>@OpenTTD youngest
17:06<@DorpsGek>dih: latest: r11780
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd thelog
17:07<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: r11780 log: -Codechange: When compiling a dedicated server build, select the dedicated video driver by default.
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>why "thelog"?!?
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... and of course it crashed before finishing recording...
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17:12<Eddi|zuHause>it's so funny how the system crashes, but it runs on like nothing happened, and the only thing that still works is IRC...
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17:38<Desolator>hello everyone
17:38|-|Desolator changed nick to Guest2430
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17:38<Guest2430>crap...
17:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11781 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: variable scope and initialization
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17:39<peter__>@openttd bugs
17:39<@DorpsGek>peter__: Open Bugs: 25; Not assigned: 22; Closed this week: 10; Opened this week: 8
17:39<UnderBuilder>@openttd features
17:39<peter__>hmm, it was 33 closed, a few days ago
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17:39<UnderBuilder>erm...
17:40<Desolator>just wondering what the devs think about what chances the new opengfx project has to get in trunk and replace the old TTD graphics?
17:41<Rubidium>getting into trunk -> probably not the way it will go. However, it will probably be part of default installations (via the installer)
17:41<Rubidium>but not in the nightlies because the graphics themselves will be stable
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17:42<Desolator>why it will probably not included directly with the game?
17:42<Desolator>(so long it'll be released under the GPL or something compatible with it)
17:42<UnderBuilder>why @openttd features doesn't work?
17:43<peter__>i imagine that we might add support for loading it instead of the default graphics, but not put it in by default
17:43<peter__>because features isn't a valid command
17:43<Rubidium>Desolator: I said that it will not be in the nightlies because that means the nightlies will quadruple in size of so
17:44<Desolator>Rubidium: I think some sort of compression should be implemented for the GRF, if it will have any effect, maybe GZIP? Just a sec, I'll try a couple of formats to see which is the most efficient
17:44<Rubidium>Desolator: the images are already compressed
17:45<peter__>not highly though
17:45<peter__>it's only an RLE variant isn't it?
17:45<Desolator>umm, yeah, PCX...one of the weakest compressions
17:45<peter__>no, GRFs are not PCX
17:45<Desolator>I mean the images
17:46<Desolator>hmm, ZIP turns the 3.2 MB trg1r.grf into 1.5, not bad
17:46<peter__>the images in the GRF are not PCX, either
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17:49<Desolator>ok, zip, gzip & bzip2 cut it to 1.5, while 7zip (basically lzma) cuts it to 1.2, although it's quite slow (but AFAIK the decompression is pretty fast)
17:50<Desolator>so maybe changing the compression grfcodec uses to something more efficient (though still keeping the old one for compatibility with TTDP of course)?
17:52<peter__>adding support for loading grfs from zip would be best, user-wise.
17:52<peter__>no doubt harder to code though
17:53<Desolator>however, there are severral algorithms used with the zip format, the good ol' deflate, bzip2 and another I can't remember are the most common
17:53<peter__>bzip2 is not used by zip
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17:54<Desolator>official, but I've seen applications that use other algorithms inside the zip format, either replacing deflate or using it on specific files
17:54<peter__>:o
17:55<peter__>.grf.gz would probably be simplest to support, but windows users would be lost, mostly
17:55<Desolator>IzArc is one example, I can use bzip2 to compress something else
17:55<Desolator>well, it's a pity that all those companies make their own formats and don't supprot creation for the ones extremely common on other platforms which sometimes are better
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17:56<Desolator>winzip can't create gz, and I don't know if it can open, while all those freeware and free and opensource archivers supprot a ton of formats (except rar & ace, for archiving)
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18:01<icc>why does there only spawn like 1-2 oilrigs?:S
18:01<icc>is there a command in dedicate console or something to spawn more?
18:02<dih>:-P
18:03<peter__>no
18:03<peter__>they appear over time
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18:31[~]SmatZ tried booting into Windows and running Unreal Tournament
18:32[~]SmatZ got ~10 BSOD
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18:32<SmatZ>no chance
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18:50<Wolf01>'night
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19:24<Eddi|zuHause>"* SmatZ tried booting into Windows and [...] got ~10 BSOD" <- well, i could have told you beforehand ;)
19:34<SmatZ>:)
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20:56<UnderBuilder>idea for new language for tt-forums: engrish!
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 08 00:00:29 2008