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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-01-27

---Logopened Sun Jan 27 00:00:20 2008
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00:19<De_Ghost>sooo anyone here?
00:19<Gonozal_VIII>nope
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00:23<De_Ghost>FAIL!!
00:23<De_Ghost>lol
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02:20<Wolf01>hello
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03:54<yorick>hello
03:55<murray>mornin
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04:17<SmatZ>hello
04:17-!-globester [~woot@cc55302-a.zwoll1.ov.home.nl] has joined #openttd
04:52<globester>how strange, when i load the city stations grf, it's not working, everything is just greyed out
04:57<Eddi|zuHause2>globester: try different year
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05:01<globester>good idea, hadn't tried that yet :o
05:02<globester>yeah, that's it :/
05:03<globester>i feel silly :/
05:07<Wilberforce>hmmm.. perhaps that explains why stations in other grf'sb are greyed out??
05:07<Wilberforce>only become active at certain years...
05:13<globester>yeah it does
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05:17<Wilberforce>excellent..
05:17<Wilberforce>i have learned something today then
05:21<mmcbane>hmm why does ECS now have gold mine in temperate....
05:25<@peter1138>why not? heh
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05:36<mmcbane>it was never there..
05:36<mmcbane>i think
05:41<mmcbane>peter shouldnt that not happen(or to be fixed)? http://www.2and2.net/my.php?image=http://www.2and2.net/files/479c5ea67e4b3.png
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05:46<@peter1138>heh, funny you should mention that
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05:53<mmcbane>?
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06:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11993 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix: Resize station/roadstop/dock/airport construction windows if cargo acceptance list is too long.
06:02<mmcbane>heh thanks.^,^
06:02<mmcbane>not even needed a bugreport.
06:04<@peter1138>i was already working on it last night
06:07<mmcbane>cool
06:08<mmcbane>you guys do a really great job.
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06:13<yorick>I think I've found a bug with newindustries
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06:18<yorick>with PBI and UKRS brik chains, gravel and clay don't pay
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06:26<yorick>I've added it to the bug tracker
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06:31<@peter1138>only works if it was started with those cargo types available
06:32<yorick>and why doesn't PBI need that?
06:32<@peter1138>hmm?
06:33<yorick>PBI doesn't need to be started with the map, it could be added later in scenarios
06:33<yorick>but the addons do?
06:36<@peter1138>which scenario, europe or world?
06:36<yorick>world
06:36<@peter1138>urgh, too large :o
06:37<yorick>2048x2048:)
06:37<yorick>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1711
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06:39<yorick>hello
06:39<Gonozal_VIII>hi
06:42<@peter1138>more than just gravel & clay don't pay
06:42<Gonozal_VIII>huh?
06:43<@peter1138>conversation from before you joined
06:43<Gonozal_VIII>could have guessed so... but i'm still half asleep
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06:45<yorick>?
06:45<yorick>peter138: what else doesn't
06:45<Gonozal_VIII>you should write a bit more details
06:45<@peter1138>the other new cargo types
06:45<yorick>peter1138*
06:45<yorick>do, they're disable using the selectors ;)
06:46<yorick>fuel oil, lumber and plastic do
06:46<@peter1138>cargo payment rates are only set up at the start
06:46<@peter1138>so how you managed that i don't know
06:47<Gonozal_VIII>fuel oil, lumber and plastic replaces some default cargo then i guess
06:47<yorick>it doesnt
06:49<Gonozal_VIII>there's a console command resetengines, right? somebody should probably make one for resetcargos :-)
06:49*yorick wants that!
06:50<yorick>the PBI wasnt added at the start, but added to a scenario built with 0.5.3
06:51<yorick>peter1138: do you know where the cargo setup code is?
06:52<yorick>laaazy
06:52<@peter1138>of course i do
06:52<yorick>but you wont tell me
06:56<yorick>pff... I dont know where to start
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07:08<yorick>please give me a hint
07:14<yorick>it's a good idea of gonozal to add a resetcargos command
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07:28<Scorcerer>hello
07:28<Gonozal_VIII>hi
07:29<Scorcerer>i have a problem with openttd v0.5.3 regarding electric rails
07:29<Scorcerer>dunno if it's a bug
07:29<Scorcerer>i have disable_electric_rails option enabled
07:30<Scorcerer>so now electric trains should run on normal, non-electrified rails, right ?
07:30<Gonozal_VIII>i guess so... never tried that
07:30<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, in fact, there should be no electric rails
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07:31<Scorcerer>ok, so for now it works
07:31<Scorcerer>it's 1969 in the game and no electirc rails
07:32<Scorcerer>but, in the replace menu there is electric sh30
07:32<Scorcerer>and only there
07:32<Gonozal_VIII>not in the buy vehicle menu?
07:32<Scorcerer>i can't build it in depot nor is it listed in available engines list
07:33<Eddi|zuHause2>best you post your problem and savegame in bugs.openttd.org
07:33<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that's a bug then but 0.5.3 is ancient, look if it's fixed in 0.6.0 beta 3 or trunk
07:34<Scorcerer>ah, okay, thanks
07:34<Eddi|zuHause2>but indeed, test it in 0.6.0-beta3 first
07:34<Scorcerer>and one more question, is 0.6.0b3 backward-compatible with saves from 0.5.3 ?
07:35<Gonozal_VIII>yes
07:35<Eddi|zuHause2>you can load all 0.5.3 savegames with 0.6.0
07:35<Eddi|zuHause2>but not the other way
07:35<Scorcerer>ok
07:47<Gonozal_VIII>wtf how's that possible... i remember to have played with a patch where you could set "leave station if x other trains are loading" but i can't find anything about that patch
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07:49<globester>it's the improved loading algorithm
07:49<globester>oh wait, it's not
07:50<Gonozal_VIII>improved loading algorithm is something else and is in trunk
07:50<globester>yeah, i misread :P
07:55<Eddi|zuHause2>i also remember something about an additional orders patch
07:56<Gonozal_VIII>it's not on flyspray, that's where i looked first, in the forum search i found some people mentioning how great it is but no link and even google didn't help
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08:06<Eddi|zuHause2>there are hints that a "gigajum's additional orders patch" was in miniin
08:06<Gonozal_VIII>yes but couldn't find that
08:08<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12193
08:08<Gonozal_VIII>yay
08:08<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i just wanted to post that ;)
08:08<Eddi|zuHause2>r1148 ;)
08:09<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that would require a little bit of updating
08:09<Gonozal_VIII>but 1148 can't be the latest version if it's been in miniin
08:10<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm sacro
08:15<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: Commit by bjarni :: r11992 trunk/src/station_map.h (2008-01-27 02:09:46 UTC)
08:16<@DorpsGek>Gonozal_VIII: -Fix (r9905): When building two rail stations close to each other (with control) so they looked like one long track trains would see them as one (spotted and fixed by eddi)
08:16<Gonozal_VIII>seen that?^^
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08:27<Gonozal_VIII>diffs all over the place...
08:31<Eddi|zuHause2>if the patch vanished after miniin, chances are, it never got ported to C++
08:32<Gonozal_VIII>:-/
08:32<Eddi|zuHause2>there once was a patches.zip in the miniin
08:33<Gonozal_VIII>i'm currenty reading the miniin topic... there was an attachment there with a fix for the patch... but nothing newer so far
08:35<mmcbane>http://nightly.openttd.org/MiniIN/files/ miniin files. =)
08:37<Eddi|zuHause2>"Additional Orders r5450 in MiniIN gigajum"
08:37-!-Amis [~IceChat7@dsl5400EB36.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
08:37<Amis>hello
08:37<Gonozal_VIII>i know, but i'm trying to find something a bit less ancient than 5xxx
08:37<Gonozal_VIII>hi
08:37<mmcbane>heh
08:38<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you can follow the updates of miniin
08:38<Amis>i need help, can somebody explain me how the semaphore works or can send me a link to a guide about it?
08:39<Gonozal_VIII>they work the same way as light signals, they just look different
08:39<Gonozal_VIII>and you build them with ctrl
08:39<Amis>uhm then why they have 3 different look?
08:39<Gonozal_VIII>ah, those are presignals
08:40<Amis>okkey those :D so how they work?
08:40<Gonozal_VIII>the yellow horizontal one turns red if all grey ones after it are red
08:40<mmcbane>the are r8***
08:41<Gonozal_VIII>and the yellow vertical is a combination of yellow horizontal and grey
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08:42<Amis>oh man, you helped a lot :D thx really
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08:46<Amis>this new openttd is amazing :D
08:46<Amis>the 0.6.0
08:47<Gonozal_VIII>gets better all the time
08:47<Amis>and as i know, it works with all its features without having the original ttd, is that right?
08:48<Gonozal_VIII>no not yet
08:48<Amis>what do i need to make it fully working
08:48<Amis>and what dont work without the ttd
08:48<Gonozal_VIII>but people are working on replacing the missing graphics and sounds
08:48<SteamWilly>could anyone provide me an openttd.cfg with all the newgrfs of grfpack6 activated? so that i don't have to activate them manually
08:48<SteamWilly>or at least the ones wich dont conflict
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08:49<Amis>so it export the graphics and sounds from the ttd, nothing else?
08:49<Gonozal_VIII>if you try to activate all of those grfs at once, your game will be quite messed up i think
08:50<SteamWilly>yes .. but maybe a good collection will be ok
08:50<Gonozal_VIII>yes, only sound and some graphic files
08:50<Amis>thx.. this chat is really usefull... that happens when people read the readme, there where i found this irc channel :)
08:50<Amis>im going to play now, byebye
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08:51<Gonozal_VIII>all of those grfs work... lots of combinations work... it's best if you pick the ones you like best and try if they work together
08:53<SteamWilly>this is a timeconsumting work ;)
08:55<Gonozal_VIII>bah, r5823 is the latest revision of the additional orders patch that i can find
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08:57<Eddi|zuHause2>like i said, the only other option you have is to follow the upgrade path through miniin
08:57<Eddi|zuHause2>that'll get you to r8xxx
08:58<Eddi|zuHause2>and then you have this hughe patch blocker ahead of you
08:58<Gonozal_VIII>yay...
08:59<Eddi|zuHause2>(i'm talking about c++)
08:59<Gonozal_VIII>i know
08:59<Gonozal_VIII>2 languages i don't know instead of one
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09:09<Amis>im back with one more question :)
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09:10<Amis>so there are presignals, and whats that (i saw it on screenshot) where there are 2 lamps on the signals but only one of them green, the other is orange, and there arent any horizontal and vertical thing under the lamps
09:11<Gonozal_VIII>pbs... you don't have that
09:11<Amis>and what pbs is?
09:11<Gonozal_VIII>path based signalling
09:11<Amis>and why i dont have that
09:11<Gonozal_VIII>very advanced but causes a lot of problems
09:12<Amis>so i need to turn it on with that ttdx configurator? or its not avaliable right now for simple users?
09:12<+glx>it's not in openttd
09:12<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not available
09:12<Amis>ahha
09:12<Gonozal_VIII>ttdx configurator doesn't work in openttd (i guess)
09:13<Amis>im lost.. i have too much tycoon... ttdpatch openttd, the original tycoon..
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09:16<Gonozal_VIII>you can do everything you could do in the original game in both patch and open but the additional features of them are different
09:16<Amis>you said that the horizontal pres. turn red when all grey behind it turn red, then which greys count? is there a square distance limit? i hope you know what i mean
09:17<Gonozal_VIII>those without any other signals in between
09:18<Amis>so in this order: pres. horizontal --- simple signal --- grey pres. the grey will not count?
09:18<Gonozal_VIII>yes, then the horizontal will act like a normal signal
09:18<Amis>okkey thx
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09:22<Gonozal_VIII>strange... i checked out r5470 of trunk to apply the advanced orders patch for 5470... when i try to apply it, tortoisemerge writes: fetching revision 5470 of file bla and then aborts with "file not found: revision 11993 of bla"
09:24<Eddi|zuHause2>use patch.exe
09:24<Eddi|zuHause2>(from mingw)
09:25<Eddi|zuHause2>patch -p0 -i <file>
09:25<Eddi|zuHause2>have fun with the GUI updates ;)
09:36<Gonozal_VIII>but i can't fix conflicts that way?
09:39<Gonozal_VIII>what's that "fetching file" crap anyways, file is already there...
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09:50<Amis>again: one-way roads. and what are those roads where there are 2 arrows pointing to both side and a red something in the middle
09:50<Gonozal_VIII>that's a good question
09:51<Amis>so you dont know?
09:51<Gonozal_VIII>no
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09:53<Gonozal_VIII>i guess it's some kind of "click here to change direction that way" indicator
09:53<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: there should not be any conflicts if you have the exact same revision
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>tortoise merge occasionaly screws up because it does a 3-way diff
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>but you don't need 3 way
09:54<Gonozal_VIII>i guess i used the miniin diff... downloaded too many files and they don't have revision or version in the name
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10:11<Amis>still nobody who could answer my question?
10:13<Maedhros>Amis: that means "road vehicles are not allowed to enter this tile at all"
10:13<Amis>and then what can enter?
10:13<Maedhros>nothing
10:13<Amis>maybe trams?
10:14<Gonozal_VIII>trams are road vehicles ingame
10:14<Eddi|zuHause2>trams are not affected by one way roads
10:14<Maedhros>exactly
10:14<Amis>and: how do i build road for trams, cuz the option is disabled
10:14<yorick>load a tram grf
10:14<Gonozal_VIII>you need a tram grf loaded
10:14<Amis>can be download from:?
10:14<Eddi|zuHause2>grfcrawler
10:15<Gonozal_VIII>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/index.php?do=list&cid=105
10:16<Gonozal_VIII>that question gets asked all the time... devs should really include the generic tram set...
10:16<Amis>yea
10:17<Amis>what do you think, which tram grf is the best?
10:17<Eddi|zuHause2>most are still in development
10:17-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-211-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
10:17<Gonozal_VIII>and it depends on how you define best
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>like the version of modern tram set i have, it has big problems with sprite offsets
10:20<Gonozal_VIII>Standard Gauge Tram Track <-- that grf is in the wrong category btw
10:20<Amis>if there are a lot grf in a package, i have to add all manually?
10:20<yorick>no
10:20<yorick>you don't have to add anything
10:20<Gonozal_VIII>huh?^^
10:20<yorick>except the grfs you want
10:21<Eddi|zuHause2>you should only have one grf of each type
10:21<yorick>you may have more than 1 station grf
10:21<Eddi|zuHause2>except if they specifically say they are compatible
10:22<Amis>i know that, but if i download a package with grfs for road, railway etc... i have to all all manually if its not in one grf?
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>it can be faster to add grfs directly to the cfg than through the ingame grf menu because you can copy&paste the filenames there, a lot of them in one go...
10:22<Amis>ahha
10:22<Amis>one more question:
10:22<Eddi|zuHause2>don't edit the cfg while the game is running
10:22<Amis>are you bored of my newbie questions?
10:22<Gonozal_VIII>yes, don't do that... changes will be gone after game quits
10:22<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, so what? :p
10:24<Gonozal_VIII>followed by another noob question by me... what are those @@ some numbers @@ lines in a .diff file?
10:24<@peter1138>line numbers
10:25<Gonozal_VIII>makes sense^^ thanks
10:25-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
10:26<Amis>the 0.6.0 is standalone or a patch to 0.5.3? lol
10:27<Eddi|zuHause2>rXXXXX is an "upgrade", X.X.X is a "full version"
10:27<Amis>so openttd-0.6.0-beta3-win32.exe is a full ver, then wheres the file where i can add grfs? :)
10:28<Gonozal_VIII>the cfg is generated after you start the game the first time
10:28<Amis>next to the exe?
10:28<Gonozal_VIII>... after you close the game the first time
10:28<Eddi|zuHause2>correction, after you exit the game for the first time
10:29<Amis>cuz seems it dont wanna make that file...
10:29<Gonozal_VIII>"my documents"
10:29<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, it should be somewhere in your personal directory, i believe
10:29<Amis>lol! why there?
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10:30<Gonozal_VIII>you can have for example 0.5.3 and 0.6.0 at the same time installed and use the same settings
10:30<Amis>uhm, my 0.5.3 used the install directory to create cfg files
10:30<Gonozal_VIII>but if you copy/move the cfg next to the exe, it uses it from there
10:30<Amis>ahha
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10:31<Eddi|zuHause2>use of a common directory for all openttd installations is a new feature of 0.6
10:32<Eddi|zuHause2>also, you can share the same installation with different users, each having different configs
10:32<Amis>okkey now what i really miss is an understandable changelog and a description of the use of the new features.
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>that's MY laptop, nobody touches that!
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>^^
10:33<Eddi|zuHause2>"svn log" ;)
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>description is in the wiki
10:34-!-Belugas_Gone [~jfranc@ip-210.45.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has joined #openttd
10:35<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35809 <-- changelog
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10:36<Amis>what do i have to do to force the new grfs into the old scenarios? impossible?
10:36<Amis>i mean not adding one by one
10:36<Gonozal_VIII>hmmmm only one by one there afaik
10:37<Gonozal_VIII>and some grfs don't work when loaded into an existing game
10:37<Gonozal_VIII>especially industries
10:38<Amis>ahha now i know, that "buses, trucks cant enter" road only allowed for trams
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>i would just remove the road then^^
10:39<Amis>yeah...
10:39<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: then the town will rebuild it
10:39<Gonozal_VIII>it can do that over player owned tram tracks?
10:40<Eddi|zuHause2>there needn't be tram tracks
10:40-!-mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl]
10:40<Gonozal_VIII>well i know... but if there are?
10:42<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't matter, i don't care where towns place thei roads^^
10:42<Gonozal_VIII>r
10:42<Eddi|zuHause2>i have not seen towns building over tram tracks, but i believe that is due to the road layout, not because it is forbidden
10:43<Gonozal_VIII>and that's town owned tram track then?
10:43<Gonozal_VIII>tiles can only have one owner and such..
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11:00<Eddi|zuHause2>the first owner wins?
11:00<Gonozal_VIII>why does tortoisemerge always try to download the head revision instead of the one it should?
11:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm not sure if it is meanwhile possible to have different road owners
11:01<Gonozal_VIII>but the precious bits!
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>- v->current_order.flags = 0;
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>+ //v->current_order.flags = 0;
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>not that's a strange thing to do
11:07-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i577B567D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:07<Gonozal_VIII>just commented out...
11:08<Gonozal_VIII>i'll delete it, deleting is way cooler
11:09<Gonozal_VIII>all the cool kids delete
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11:14<Amis_>heh dc...
11:14<Amis_>so
11:14<Amis_>is that a bug the with turning on hte invisible building options the fruit plantation (and maybe other industries) do not become invisible? as i remember in 0.5.3 it worked well
11:15<Amis_>forget it
11:15*Gonozal_VIII forgets it
11:15<Amis_>i see theres a new options called Transparency options
11:15<Amis_>option*
11:19<SmatZ>Amis_: yeah, ctrl+x
11:19-!-Amis [~IceChat7@dsl5400EB36.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:19<Amis_>any admin here? please kick my stucked clone Amis, not Amis_
11:20<Amis_>lol
11:20<Amis_>somebody can read in my mind :P
11:20<SpComb>Amis_: /msg nickserv help ghost
11:20-!-Amis_ is now known as Amis
11:20<Amis>what sp?
11:20<SpComb>Amis: register your nickname with nickserv, and you can then ghost it if it's inuse
11:21<Amis>"ghost it"?
11:21<Gonozal_VIII>or wait 8 minutes...
11:21<SpComb>also applies if some other person takes your nickname
11:21<Gonozal_VIII>if your connection is lost, your nick stays on the irc server for 8 minutes until ping timeout
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11:31<aleex>how to reset an company?
11:31<aleex>"rcon PW reset_company 2"
11:31<aleex>doesn't work
11:31<Gonozal_VIII>no pw
11:32<aleex>ah
11:32<aleex>doens't work ;<
11:32<aleex>company 2 (player 2)
11:34<Eddi|zuHause2>might start counting with 0?
11:34<aleex>no
11:34<aleex>tried 1
11:34-!-UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.106.244] has joined #openttd
11:36<aleex>"remove an idle company from the game. usage: reset_company ID
11:36<aleex>bt doesn't work
11:37<+glx>rcon rcon_pw command
11:37<+glx>should work
11:37-!-Jortuny [~octernion@r253186120.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #openttd
11:37<aleex>doesn't
11:37<aleex>rcon PW reset_company 2
11:37<aleex>doesn't work
11:38<+glx>try rcon PW "reset_company 2"
11:38<aleex>ok
11:38<aleex>ah
11:38<aleex>thx!
11:38<aleex>anyone want to play with us?
11:39<aleex>0.6.0-beta3
11:39<aleex>all allowed, 1.000.000 euro, open-end
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11:45<aleex>hm ;<
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11:54<yorick>any dev's thoughts on implementing a resetcargos command for the console?
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12:15<Eddi|zuHause2>last time it was discussed, there was something about factoring in inflation
12:16<Amis>hmm i alway wanted to know what decide which train is the next... somebody? because its the the order of arrival
12:16<Gonozal_VIII>hehe a friend of mine sent me a screenshot of his router config to take a look at... it was a terrible jpg and i couldn't read anything so i asked him to send me a png instead... then he sent me the same file, renamed to .png^^
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>Amis: the train that can start up the fastest
12:19<Amis>and when (cause i have this now) all trains are the same? lev4 with empty goods wagons
12:19<Prof_Frink>Gonozal_VIII: Just be glad it wasn't the .jpg saved as .bmp renamed to .png
12:19<Amis>cause it seems to be random.. it should be the order of arrival
12:19<Eddi|zuHause2>Amis: train id most probably
12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>the waiting time is not stored anywhere, and it would need some kind of arbiter to allow a train to start up, this is really unlikely to work with the current signalling system
12:21<Amis>hehh...
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12:27<LordAzamath>hello
12:28<Gonozal_VIII>no need to store waiting time, lists rock
12:28<Amis>lol
12:30<Gonozal_VIII>ah i guess the game loops through all vehicles at once...
12:30<yorick>I gotta go
12:30<yorick>bye
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12:30<Gonozal_VIII>not just the ones inside the depot... kk that's problematic then
12:31<Gonozal_VIII>the depotcode could flag it as first and then the other vehicles that are not first skip their tick
12:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r11994 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove numbers from string names where the strings aren't present in TTD, since they don't correspond to either TTD's TextIDs or OpenTTD's StringIDs.
12:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r11995 /trunk/src/lang/ (39 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup (r11994): Change the string names in all the other languages.
12:38<Eddi|zuHause2>who said anything about depots?
12:39<Eddi|zuHause2>yay for full recompile that changes nothing ;)
12:42<Maedhros>:-P
12:43<LordAzamath>hmm.. what do you think of the structure of this.. (yes I'm drawing again :P ) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35310&start=720#p660414
12:43<Eddi|zuHause2>man, these TGP landscapes just scream for diagonal tunnels..
12:43<DJ-Nekkid>anyone i can bother with a couple .nfo/newgrf questions ? (VarAction2's)
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12:44<Eddi|zuHause2>a propos varaction2... i was about to implement something...
12:44<DaleStan>DJ-Nekkid: There are several people you can bother. But none who can answer without seeing the questions.
12:44<DJ-Nekkid>hehe... well ...
12:45<LordAzamath>Eddi|zuHause2: TGP?
12:45<Eddi|zuHause2>TerraGenesis Perlin, the standard map generator of openttd
12:45<DJ-Nekkid>DaleStan/someone i have a MU... with <--- and ---> (different light + active phanto on the one in the back) ... ive understood i need action1 + 2 for front, then action 1 + 2 for back, and then i'm stuck :)
12:46<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 AC 00 40 <fill in more here> :)
12:46<DaleStan>Did you read the VariationalAction2 and VarAction2Vehicles pages?
12:46<DJ-Nekkid>yes i did, but they didnt take me tooo far...
12:47<DaleStan>(That's very unlikely to be valid as the fourth and fifth bytes of an action 2, by the way.)
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12:49<DJ-Nekkid>hmm...
12:50<Scorcerer>does it matter what patch settings i have enabled when creating map, or server always uses it's own settings written in openttd.conf?
12:51<DaleStan>If the fourth byte is <nument1>, the fifth byte is rarely larger than 0F, and if the fifth byte is <var>, the fourth byte needs to be <type>, not <nument1>.
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>settings are taken from the savegame, so it does matter what you have when creating the map
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12:56<Scorcerer>ok, thanks
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12:59<DJ-Nekkid>DaleStan: so something like -1 * 0 02 00 AC 00 40 00 FF 01 AA 00 00 00 AB 00 ?
12:59<DaleStan>40 isn't any better as nument1 than nument2, and it's not a valid type.
13:00<Eddi|zuHause2>this is how you learn to loathe NFO ;)
13:00<DaleStan>Except that I missed the 00.
13:00<DJ-Nekkid>40 is in my head the "count vehicle thingy"
13:00<Gonozal_VIII>i know that -1 * 0 is wrong, for the rest i have no idea :-)
13:01<Gonozal_VIII>^^
13:01<DaleStan>But that's not a variational 2. A variatioal 2 has a byte 81, 82, 85, 86, 89, or 8A as the fourth byte.
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13:02<DaleStan>If the fourth byte is 00..7F, it's standard, if the fourth byte is 80 or 83 it's random. All other values (84, 87, 88, 8B--FF) are invalid.
13:03<DJ-Nekkid>well, it isnt random... it's fixed...
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13:04<DaleStan>No, it's variaitiona. See the line before.
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13:04<DaleStan>*variational
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13:09<Amis>holy lol... that 2300 km/h at the new planes... REALLY fast... this realistic plane speed integration is nice :D
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13:10<Amis>they just... loading *blink* unloading
13:13<Gonozal_VIII>wait until the teleporters come available...
13:13<Amis>in 2542?
13:13<Amis>Teleport Tycoon Deluxe...
13:13<Gonozal_VIII>yes, exactly 2542
13:14<hylje>:o
13:14<Gonozal_VIII>you just put them everywhere and they generate money without you doing anything
13:15<Amis>nono... you have to buy a man who carry the cargo out of the industry
13:15<Amis>thats about... 12$ a month
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13:16<Gonozal_VIII>i guess in the year 2542 you don't have to buy people anymore, you just clone them
13:17<Amis>clone them in the depot?
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13:17<@peter1138>remember to ctrl-clone them
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13:18<Amis>so in 2542 i sti to my hyper-super computer, i put my child into the scanner and ctrl-klikk it, now i have twins
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13:18<Amis>sit*
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13:22<Gonozal_VIII>oxygen was gone... could barely breath for a while there
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13:25<Amis>what if i apply 2 tram grf?
13:26<Gonozal_VIII>depends on which ids they use
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13:27<Amis>and what if i remove the grf i use now for trams and load a new, what will happen to the trams i have now?
13:27<Gonozal_VIII>nothing
13:27<Amis>?
13:27<Amis>but the grf they used will no longer exist
13:28<Gonozal_VIII>until you apply changes :-)
13:28<Amis>............
13:28<Wolf01>they might become toyland trucks
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13:28<aleex>someone who wants to play with us?
13:29<Chrill>Sure
13:29<Chrill>GRFs? Version? and all that?
13:29<aleex>0.6 beta3
13:29<aleex>all allowed, 1mio euro
13:29<aleex>openend
13:30<aleex>1gbit
13:30<Chrill>??
13:31<Gonozal_VIII>openttd only needs some kbit
13:31<Amis>hahaha the trams became steel trucks but they still move ont the rail :D
13:31<Gonozal_VIII>but it's nice to have a fast connection to load the map while joining
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13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>how's the weather in austria?
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>the news were telling something about storms, flying roofs and power failures
13:37<Amis>in middle europe yeah lol
13:37<LordAzamath>in northern part too (few days ago...)
13:37<Amis>wind wind wind...
13:37<Amis>nothing else
13:37<Amis>its not cold btw
13:37<Wolf01>here in italy is really nice instead, flying frogs, red rain, people walking with the hands...
13:37<Amis>totally normal
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13:37<LordAzamath>what happens if I use two actionAs for one sprite in same grf.. w/o any action7 or stuff...
13:37<LordAzamath>Wolf01: But what about Napoli? :P
13:37<@peter1138>it gets replaced twice
13:37<LordAzamath>does it load both sprites?
13:38<@peter1138>no
13:38<LordAzamath>I mean can I have two sprites, when they don't overlap
13:38<Gonozal_VIII>no wind here, mountains all around
13:38<LordAzamath>baah
13:38<Wolf01>ah over there... bah, they like to swim in the trash
13:38<LordAzamath>I was just thinking of transparent windows.. :P
13:39-!-divo [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:40<Amis>lol gonzol surronded with mountains, i live on the top of a mountaind, now imagine how hard the wind is here
13:40<LordAzamath>peter1138: But is there a possibility to have more sprites in replacement than in the original? Like I have rail depot, which consists of two sprites, but I want to define three sprites... That's not possible?
13:41<Gonozal_VIII>how high is that mountain?
13:41<LordAzamath>(or to be accurate 4 sprites :P )
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13:41<Amis>i dont know :D but the street end at the top, and the last house is mine, so no protection against the wind, no house, no trees
13:42<LordAzamath>poor guy.. NAAAT!!
13:42<Gonozal_VIII>don't want to pay your heating bills then
13:42<LordAzamath>^^
13:42<Amis>:)
13:44<Amis>a question: in the 0.6.0, does the AI have something new element? do the enemies build trains? or ships? or airplanes?
13:44<Gonozal_VIII>ai sucks
13:44<Amis>grrr....
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>there's the NoAI branch, but that will not be included in 0.6
13:45<Amis>whats that
13:45<+glx>scripted ai
13:45<Gonozal_VIII>makes it easier for people to write ais
13:45<+glx>but it's far from finished
13:46<Gonozal_VIII>i can see the ai competition servers coming^^
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13:52<Amis>hahaha... ai made small airport, bought airplanes that goes with 1000 km/h, now all planes crashed
13:52<Gonozal_VIII>murderer!
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13:53<Chrill>DAIII AI
13:53-!-Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
13:53<@peter1138>LordAzamath, no, it's not possible. if it was it wouldn't be action A to do it
13:54-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
13:54<LordAzamath>hmm.. you are right about the actionA side of that sentence :D.. And I guess the first part too..
13:54<LordAzamath>^^
13:55<@peter1138>of course i'm right
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13:56<LordAzamath>hmm... but would it be extremely difficult to get?... As a new property/feature of some action.. or something?...
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>Amis: i believe that was fixed in a recent commit
13:57<Eddi|zuHause2>even if peter1138 wasn't right, he could make it right ;)
13:57<LordAzamath>not for TTDP ;)
13:57<LordAzamath>^^
13:58-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:58<Eddi|zuHause2>yay, i finally connected two small networks ;)
13:59<Eddi|zuHause2>after almost 40 years of having that plan ;)
13:59-!-Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
13:59-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>i didn't know you were that old eddi
14:01<Amis>im going offline, thx for the info from everybody :D
14:01<Amis>byebye
14:01-!-Amis [~IceChat7@dsl5400C3B7.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well]
14:02*LordAzamath is leaving for today too... But before he leaves, he gives you a link: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35310&p=660419#p660419
14:03<LordAzamath>bye
14:03<Gonozal_VIII>toyland depot
14:04<LordAzamath>grr
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>;-)
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>i know, i know... textures
14:04<LordAzamath>not properly textured yet
14:04<LordAzamath>half of is though :P
14:04<LordAzamath>+it
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>looks a little low, do vehicles fit in there?
14:05<LordAzamath>same height as original
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>ah.. illusion then
14:05<LordAzamath>ok actually.. 9px
14:06<LordAzamath>origianl is 8 :P
14:06<LordAzamath>it's just wider
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>illusion!
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>burn the illusionist!
14:06<LordAzamath>this fits whole tile... original didn't
14:07<Gonozal_VIII>now you have to make it look like you're not burning
14:07<LordAzamath>me?
14:08<Gonozal_VIII>sure :-)
14:08<LordAzamath>abakadabra
14:08<LordAzamath>see how easy it was :)
14:08<LordAzamath>try it yourself too.. first let's set you on fire.... right.. that's more like it
14:09<LordAzamath>and now jsut do as I did
14:09<yorick>I'm looking how hard it is to implement a resetcargos console command
14:09<@peter1138>it's not needed
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14:10<yorick>so I'll have to fully redo a scenario in order to add one grf?
14:10<mmcbane>what is max industrie/resources per map`? 37?
14:10<yorick>a scenario of 2048x2048 that is
14:10<yorick>cargo's, 37 I think
14:11<Gonozal_VIII>or 32
14:11<yorick>no, it was an odd number
14:11<yorick>in 30
14:11<yorick>31, 33, 35, 37 or 39
14:11<LordAzamath>lol
14:12<Gonozal_VIII>32 cargos 37 industries or something like that
14:12<Gonozal_VIII>i know what odd numbers are :P
14:12<@peter1138>you're counting types
14:12<mmcbane>i have 37 with esc + powerplants.
14:12<@peter1138>not the max in a map
14:13<yorick>he asked for types, right?
14:13<Gonozal_VIII>both
14:13<LordAzamath>"what is max industrie/resources per map`? 37?" :P
14:13<yorick>dunno if there is a max for industries per map
14:14<LordAzamath>65535? ^^
14:14<yorick>well...depends on how much would fit in
14:14<yorick>there wont fit 65535
14:14<yorick>in 2048x2048
14:14<Gonozal_VIII>there will
14:14*yorick makes calculation
14:14<mmcbane>i meant types =)
14:14<yorick>37
14:15<LordAzamath>2 048 * 2 048 = 4 194 304
14:15<yorick>4 194 304 /6
14:15<LordAzamath>if you have an industry grf, occupies oone tile
14:15<yorick>@calc 4194304/6
14:15<@DorpsGek>yorick: 699050.666667
14:15<yorick>most are around 6
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>see, only a tenth of the map covered then
14:16*Chrill licks Sacro's stomach
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>WTF
14:16<LordAzamath>weirdos...
14:16<yorick>[20:09] <@peter1138> it's not needed <-- ?
14:16<Chrill>..BRB :)
14:16<yorick>how would I do it then?
14:22<yorick>?
14:23<LordAzamath>maybe something to do with this... look for comments by Truelight... http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1060
14:23<LordAzamath>and maybe that patch can do what you want :=
14:23<LordAzamath>:)*
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14:27<yorick>what patch?
14:28<yorick>@seen dih*
14:28<@DorpsGek>yorick: dih* could be dih (20 hours, 48 minutes, and 34 seconds ago), dihedral (1 week, 5 days, 4 hours, 16 minutes, and 0 seconds ago), dihedral_ (10 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 39 minutes, and 15 seconds ago), dihedral|work (12 weeks, 4 days, 10 hours, 19 minutes, and 51 seconds ago), dihedral|lunch (12 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes, and 57 seconds ago), dihedral|afk (13 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 25 minutes, and 5 (1 more message)
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14:31<yorick>no, you're a lobster
14:34<LordAzamath>yorick: that patch of which FS task I pointtes you :P
14:34<LordAzamath>s=d
14:34<yorick>I already have that patch
14:34-!-yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
14:35<LordAzamath>Yorick|AFK: you could try @seen anh* too :P
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14:48<Yorick>@seen anh*
14:48<@DorpsGek>Yorick: I haven't seen anyone matching anh*.
14:48<Yorick>@seen and*
14:48<@DorpsGek>Yorick: and* could be Andel (19 hours, 14 minutes, and 20 seconds ago), Andzy (6 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 20 minutes, and 43 seconds ago), or AndyLQ (26 weeks, 0 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes, and 57 seconds ago)
14:49*Prof_Frink is tempted to try @seen *
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14:54<Yorick>@seen *
14:54<@DorpsGek>Yorick: * could be <last> (4 minutes and 56 seconds ago), Prof_Frink (4 minutes and 56 seconds ago), Yorick (5 minutes and 31 seconds ago), LordAzamath (18 minutes and 28 seconds ago), Chrill (37 minutes and 26 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIII (37 minutes and 43 seconds ago), mmcbane (39 minutes and 32 seconds ago), peter1138 (42 minutes and 0 seconds ago), Amis (52 minutes and 53 seconds ago), Eddi|zuHause2 (54 minutes and (50 more messages)
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14:54<Yorick>this way?
14:54<Eddi|zuHause2>that makes you a lot of friends
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14:55<LordAzamath>hmm... now what was the exact reason you hightlighted us?
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15:00<valhallasw>'because he can'
15:00<valhallasw>:D
15:07<Eddi|zuHause2>timetables and autoreplace don't mix properly...
15:10<lekro>when I ping the coop public server I get 140ms round-trip. that shouldn't be too bad for joining the server, right? just asking because I'm investigating my "connection lost" errors I get as soon as I join. Or do you need a faster machine to join this server (I have a PPC 1.33GHz)?
15:14<SmatZ>I don't know how fast is 1.33GHz PPC, but 1.3GHz x86 isn't fast enough for some openttdcoop games
15:14<@peter1138>correct
15:15<lekro>it's a G4. then I guess this is the problem why I can't connect :/
15:15<@peter1138>their games are too big, heh
15:15<SmatZ>that's why I like them ;)
15:15<hylje>openttd doesn't scale! :D
15:15<Prof_Frink>Congratulations. You've made a 1994 game need 2004 hardware.
15:16<Prof_Frink>I hope you're happy.
15:16<@peter1138>they also make horrible huge stations
15:16<@peter1138>Prof_Frink, very :)
15:16<SmatZ>256x256 with 80 trains runs perfectly on old hardware :-P
15:16<Prof_Frink>peter1138: The term is "fuck-ugly"
15:16<@peter1138>now my next patch is to limit the map to 256x256 and with 80 trains...
15:16<@peter1138>SmatZ, bah!
15:17<SmatZ>:)
15:17<@peter1138>the forum's screenshots section..
15:17<@peter1138>ttdp: good shots
15:17<@peter1138>ottd: ugly shots
15:17<@peter1138>(mostly)
15:17<@peter1138>the ttdpers know how to crop to show detail
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15:17<hylje>ttdp has historically had more eyecandy stuff, no?
15:18<hylje>beside the people
15:18<@peter1138>the ottders know how to make huge fuck-ugly stations and press ^S
15:18<SmatZ>:))))
15:18<@peter1138>(or just make jpgs, heh)
15:18<Prof_Frink>It's more ttdp: I built this without any terraforming ottd: zomg 50x50 station with one train!
15:18<@peter1138>exactly
15:18<hylje>zomg 20x10 station with 200 trains
15:19<Maedhros>the impressive thing is that Rob does that, and yet his shots still look good
15:19<Prof_Frink>Well, what Rob doesn't do is start a new game.
15:19<Prof_Frink>EVER.
15:19<Maedhros>hehe
15:19<hylje>ottd crashes too often for that
15:19<hylje>*ducks*
15:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r11996 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1706]: update train statusbar when stopping from zero speed
15:21<Prof_Frink>*grabs shotgun*
15:21<Prof_Frink>*shoots ducks*
15:21<hylje>*whosoh*
15:22*Prof_Frink is now known as Frink_Tired
15:24<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, this long distance train on my single track totally screws up train order
15:26<LordAzamath>good night
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15:38<Wolf01>http://lh6.google.ca/abramsv/R5f8w-9Hg0I/AAAAAAAAEyw/Sgw-HD435f8/s800/1579699285_feacfa2d75_o.jpg mmmh
15:39<Eddi|zuHause2>looks weird...
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15:40<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i am missing a good livery right now...
15:40<Eddi|zuHause2>local trains have the n-Wagon (Silverling) livery
15:40<Eddi|zuHause2>electric long distance trains have the Rheingold II livery
15:41<Eddi|zuHause2>but diesel long distance trains only can have the old green livery
15:42<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't refit new wagons to the blue F-Train livery anymore
15:42<Eddi|zuHause2>and the worst thing is, i can't get dining cars
15:42<@Bjarni>sounds like real life railroads
15:42<@Bjarni>they let the passengers go hungry without providing food >_<
15:43<Wolf01>http://lh4.google.ca/abramsv/R5f8-e9HhQI/AAAAAAAAE2U/1MoXMLXwSLY/xlg_aero_ze.jpg?imgmax=512 looks steampunk
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15:47<Eddi|zuHause2>that sounds totally logic to me, Wolf01 :p
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15:49<Gonozal_VIII>wtf is that thing
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16:06<Phoenix_the_II>./openttd -D 195.20.204.192
16:06<Phoenix_the_II>that would run a dedicated @ that ip right?
16:06-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@062249182162.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd
16:07<@peter1138>assuming that ip is bound to an interface, yeah
16:07<Phoenix_the_II>yup
16:07<Phoenix_the_II>dbg: [net] Listening on ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦:5315
16:07<Phoenix_the_II>dbg: [net] [udp] listening on port 195.20.205.255:5315
16:07<Phoenix_the_II>dbg: [net] Generating map, please wait...
16:07<Phoenix_the_II>still i get this? :o
16:08<@Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> wtf is that thing <-- an airship
16:09<@Bjarni>I don't think they ever built them like that though
16:09<@Bjarni>but it looks interesting
16:09<@Bjarni>and might have worked well
16:09<@Bjarni>well... I don't think rotating the whole balloon is a good idea
16:10<@Bjarni>but the moving payload is an interesting concept
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16:10<Gonozal_VIII>i don't think that thing would have moved that way
16:11<@Bjarni>no the needed RPM on the balloon would be too high for sane construction
16:11<@Bjarni>it would work on water but not air
16:11<Gonozal_VIII>yep
16:12<@Bjarni>but changing the pitch by moving the payload looks interesting
16:12<@Bjarni>then it would be good enough to control the rest on 2D rather than 3D
16:12<@Bjarni>they only need to turn and move forward
16:12<@Bjarni>no pitch control
16:13<@Bjarni>right now they increase or decrease balloons inside the balloon to gain pitch control. This concept might give the ability to take off with a higher payload as the whole balloon is in use all the time
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>well... you have pitch control through the moving cabin... that's a lot more complicated then rotating engines
16:14<hylje>what
16:14<@Bjarni>rotating engines will not gain the pitch control this will give
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>hmm i think it would
16:15<@Bjarni>just moving the payload backwards will make the front tilt upwards. Rotating the engines will not tilt anything
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>it will if you turn the front engines up ant the back engines down
16:15<@Bjarni>but that would use more energy than this system
16:16<hylje>so there's a massive rail that moves the cabin relative to the balloon
16:16<@Bjarni>and if we design it to use as little fuel as possible then moving the payload once to gain a continuous effect is better
16:17<@Bjarni>hylje: yeah... the rail is too big. It could be made smaller. You don't need that size all the way
16:17<Gonozal_VIII>you could also attach it with ropes and adjust the length for that...
16:17<Wolf01>'night
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16:17<@Bjarni>I wouldn't trust ropes
16:18<@Bjarni>it's no fun if they break
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>hehehe
16:18<hylje>try wires
16:18<@Bjarni>ropes are more likely to break than the rail system
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>no...
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>they will use the same safety factors
16:19<@Bjarni>no?
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>why would they be more likely to break?
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>just because they look more fragile?
16:19<@Bjarni>I mean if the rails break then it would likely result in a jammed truck. If a rope fails then it's really bad
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16:20<hylje>ropes involve more points of failure, but there's redundancy to make up for that
16:21<@Bjarni>ropes are like strings. You can gain full strength of them when you pull it. If you make the distance shorter then they are no good
16:21<Gonozal_VIII>the rails on the picture wouldn't work, way too heavy, you would have to minimise that... if anything breaks then it would have the same results as a failing rope
16:21<@Bjarni>the metal framework will not do this
16:21<@Bjarni>and this affects the risk of sine reflected vibrations that can cause failures
16:23<@Bjarni>imagine we take a box and with 4 ropes we tie it to the roof
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>i guess the best would be a combination of wires and pipes
16:23<@Bjarni>it's now floating in mid air
16:23<@Bjarni>if you push it then it will create a sine like movements until it comes to a stop at the static position
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>great, now all my tracks are one continuous network
16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>all tracks? no, one track in the north...
16:24<Gonozal_VIII>hehehe
16:24<@Bjarni>if you connect it with metal pipes then the box will not move
16:24<@Bjarni>not even if you use the same strength of ropes/pipes
16:25<@Bjarni>the vibrations that are reflected are the dangerous ones because they can build up and become way more powerful
16:25<@Bjarni>metal pipes are less likely to suffer from this
16:25<@Bjarni>note: less likely is not the same as the problem is gone
16:26<Prof_Frink>Well, there's only one way where the problem to disappear completely.
16:26<@Bjarni>not flying?
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>don't move the payload^^
16:26<Prof_Frink>"Sod it, let's build something else."
16:27<@Bjarni>but then you would have problems with something else
16:27<@Bjarni>how about not move around at all?
16:27<Prof_Frink>"Sod it, tea break."
16:28<@Bjarni>got it
16:28<@Bjarni>bbl
16:29*Bjarni takes his tea break
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16:52<Eddi|zuHause2>now i have a beautiful cross-map track that i can electrify once i get BR 103 ;)
16:52<Eddi|zuHause2>needs a little touching up for double-track-ness
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16:57<Eddi|zuHause2>how do i report language bugs?
16:57<Chrill>ask the translators of said language? :S
16:57<Eddi|zuHause2>"Neuer Kohlebergwerk wird nahe [...] gebaut!"
16:58<Eddi|zuHause2>should be "neues" [gender error]
16:59<Chrill>ask German translators? :P
16:59<Eddi|zuHause2>you got one spare? ;)
16:59-!-Tino|Home [~Tino@i59F572B5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:59<Chrill>no idea who does German
16:59<Chrill>I do Swedish, tho, but that wont help you :P
17:01<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: but i guess the Kohlebergwerk is a variable and can be something else, and therefore cannot be fixed that easily.
17:01<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: the system can do it
17:01<Eddi|zuHause2>it has support for cases and genders
17:01<Eddi|zuHause2>they just have to be defined properly
17:01<ln->hmm, clever.
17:03-!-globester [~woot@cc55302-a.zwoll1.ov.home.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04<ln->you'll have to live with it, there's no good way to complain about translations, except writing an email.
17:04<Rubidium_>Eddi|zuHause2: using ECS?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... no, alpine
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>but indeed, that can explain it
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>gender won't be defined in the grf
17:06-!-Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:09<Rubidium_>is it okay when you do not load the grf?
17:10<@peter1138>goodnight
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17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>industries open too rarely ;)
17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>10 month on FF, and only one new industry
17:16<Eddi|zuHause2>"Neuer Bauernhof", but that might be incidentally correct...
17:16<Chrill>DJ Chrill @ TGS Radio | Quakenet #TGS.Radio | www.tgsradio.com | Request music @ IRC
17:17<Eddi|zuHause2>Quiet!
17:17<Chrill>Loud!
17:17<Rubidium_>Eddi|zuHause2: the news message should also show when you build one yourself (or prospect one)
17:17<Eddi|zuHause2>i tried with building myself, didn't show
17:18<Rubidium_>prospecting should show though
17:18<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, with prospecting it does
17:18<Eddi|zuHause2>still incorrect
17:18<Rubidium_>odd
17:19<Eddi|zuHause2>it's worse with oil wells, it should be "Neue [...] werden [...]" (plural)
17:20-!-Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N833P030.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
17:21<Gonozal_VIII>my attempts to resolve conflicts get more and more random...
17:23<Rubidium_>Eddi|zuHause2: can't find something obviously wrong myself (don't know enough about the whole gender system)
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>"Bauernhof" should be male, "Bergwerk" [any of them] should be neutral, "Ölquellen" should be plural (female, but that is irrelevant)
17:26<ln->does any language have more than three genders?
17:26<Rubidium_>ln-: yes
17:27<ln->any that you can name?
17:27<Rubidium_>ukranian
17:27<ln->what's the fourth?
17:28<Rubidium_>no idea, it's just that the translation file specifies 4
17:28<Rubidium_>russian too
17:30<Rubidium_>Eddi|zuHause2: are the string correct in 0.5.3?
17:30<Gonozal_VIII>what revision was that c++ thingy?
17:30<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: late 8xxx i believe
17:30<ln->russian certainly has only 3 genders, and quite probably so does ukrainian.
17:31-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:31<+glx>ln-: french language specifies 3 genders too
17:31<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: but you also have the makefile rewrite that'll kill your patch
17:31<+glx>but 2 of them are male
17:31<Gonozal_VIII>and update to r8000 deleted all files...
17:31<ln->glx: the straight male and the.... no. what's the other one? :)
17:31<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: "genders" can be used for different things than actual genders
17:32<ln->glx: or what's the difference.
17:32<+glx>it's used as a trick for "le" "la" "l'"
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>deleted all files as in everything i've done so far is gone^^
17:32<Gonozal_VIII>yay
17:33<Eddi|zuHause2>Rubidium_: 0.5.3 is an awfully long time ago ;)
17:33<Rubidium_>Eddi|zuHause2: true
17:33<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: still, extracting linguistical information from openttd translations is not very reliable. :)
17:34-!-Tlustoch [~last_evol@r6al232.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:34<Rubidium_>but I have no idea whether it once worked or not and when it then might've been broken
17:35<Eddi|zuHause2>now that i am looking at it, the strings seem mostly correct
17:35<Eddi|zuHause2>except for the plural thingie of the oil wells
17:35<Gonozal_VIII>then change it to ölquelle ;-)
17:36-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F7C4AC.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>but since it is now not a language bug, i will post it at flyspray
17:36<Gonozal_VIII>flyspray for a grf bug?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not a grf bug either
17:37<Eddi|zuHause2>i tried without grf
17:37<Gonozal_VIII>then what is it?
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>a bug with the string system?
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17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>the strings correctly say {G=n} etc.
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>i guess you're not supposed to use plural there
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>and the "superstring" says 'neue{G r "" s}' correctly
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>but it always uses the first (male) form
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>ah
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>the "fix" for plural is rather easy
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>just add another gender
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>at the beginning of the file
17:40<Gonozal_VIII>zwitter?
17:41<Eddi|zuHause2>ich zwitter dir auch gleich einen...
17:42<Gonozal_VIII>i've spent the whole day shuffling around code that i mostly didn't understand and it's all gone now^^
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you should have known ;)
17:43<Gonozal_VIII>wouldn't have worked anyways, sometimes i just guessed how to resolve something but it kind of sucks^^
17:44<Gonozal_VIII>soooo what do i do now?
17:45<Rubidium_>restore the backup you made before you synced to r8000
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>would have been a smart thing to make one, right?
17:45<Rubidium_>and search the logs to find out when the makefile rewrite file move hit trunk
17:46<Rubidium_>it's rather standard practise and not something particulary 'smart' to do
17:47<Gonozal_VIII>didn't know that it just deletes modified files without asking
17:49<+glx>Eddi|zuHause2: it way be a bug in language file too
17:50<Eddi|zuHause2>glx: yeah, but it looks ok in the language file
17:50<Eddi|zuHause2>it'd be nice if someone could confirm it for another language
17:50<+glx>check http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Format_of_langfiles#Advanced_use
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18:01<Phoenix_the_II>hmm Bjarni, DorpsGek, orudge
18:01<Phoenix_the_II>i cant seem to get my dedi server working
18:01<Gonozal_VIII>?
18:01<Gonozal_VIII>dorpsgek?
18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>that is how you should _not_ do it, kids ;)
18:01<Gonozal_VIII>i'm sure he'll help you
18:01<Phoenix_the_II>Eddi|zuHause2 wtf?
18:02<valhallasw>'highlight everyone, they might help you'
18:02<Phoenix_the_II>i'm thinking the problems lies within multiple address on the server
18:03<Gonozal_VIII>talk to dorpsgek, he knows everything about your problem
18:03<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
18:03<Phoenix_the_II>well im guessing the @'s are the dev's, since the same config is working on a single IP server
18:03<Phoenix_the_II>and it's not working on a server with multiple IP's
18:03<Phoenix_the_II>:P
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but your guess is totally off :p
18:03<+glx>you may need to set bind_ip in cfg
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>and you are not looking for defs, but for experienced administrators
18:04<Phoenix_the_II>server_bind_ip = 195.20.204.192
18:04<Phoenix_the_II>server_port = 50000
18:04<Phoenix_the_II>:P
18:05<Phoenix_the_II>lemme nopaste the startup
18:05<Phoenix_the_II>http://rafb.net/p/U8nWO878.html
18:08<Phoenix_the_II>:o
18:09<Eddi|zuHause2>you sure it uses the config file you have?
18:11<Phoenix_the_II>i gave the -c openttd.cfg parameter with it now
18:11<Phoenix_the_II>same output
18:11<Rubidium_>how many interfaces do you have?
18:11<Phoenix_the_II>64
18:12<+glx>all in the same subnet?
18:12<Phoenix_the_II>yes
18:12<ln->when will the next channel meeting be held, and where?
18:12<Phoenix_the_II>i got the IP range 195.20.204.192/24
18:12<Phoenix_the_II>err
18:12<Phoenix_the_II>i got the IP range 195.20.204.192/26
18:12<Phoenix_the_II>;P
18:13<Phoenix_the_II>thats .192 trough 254
18:13<Rubidium_>then the broadcast address is totally wrong
18:13<Eddi|zuHause2>why does it say 205 then?
18:14<Phoenix_the_II>195.20.204.255 is no broadcast IP :p
18:14<Phoenix_the_II>iface eth0 inet static
18:14<Phoenix_the_II>address 195.20.204.192
18:14<Phoenix_the_II>netmask 255.255.254.0
18:14<Phoenix_the_II>gateway 195.20.204.1
18:15<Phoenix_the_II>this goes on till .254 :)
18:15<Rubidium_>you configured a /23 network there
18:15<Rubidium_>not a /26 network
18:15<Phoenix_the_II>yes, because im inside a /23 network
18:16<Phoenix_the_II>my ISP gave me a /26 inside that /23
18:17<Phoenix_the_II>and 195.20.204.255 is a unused IP address
18:19<Phoenix_the_II>:o
18:21<Phoenix_the_II>Rubidium_
18:21<Phoenix_the_II>? :o
18:23<Rubidium_>I am out of ideas why it does not work (and I do not host a server)
18:24<Phoenix_the_II>heh ok thx :)
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18:35<ln->when will the next channel meeting be held, and where in europe?
18:39<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: you volunteering? ;)
18:40<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni.halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2024.%20Dez%201963.png <- ain't it beatiful?
18:41<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2024.%20Dez%201963.png
18:42<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: i realize turku is not the centre of the universe, and thus not the optimal place.
18:44<Eddi|zuHause2>i have 3 steam engines left...
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18:49<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm imho the waggons are a bit too randomly mixed
18:51<ln->ok, let's have a channel meeting in Berlin, two months from now.
18:51<ln->west
18:51<Gonozal_VIII>you think they'll let eddi cross the border?
18:52<ln->for such a good reason, why not.
18:53<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i could try via the embassy in Prag or Warschau ;)
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18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>isn't easter two months from now?
18:55<ln->it's possible.
18:55<ln->at least i don't remember having an easter this year yet. :)
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>i do
18:55<Gonozal_VIII>they are selling easter eggs since about two weeks
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18:58<Gonozal_VIII>and i guess they'll keep selling them until it's time to change to halloween crap...
18:58<Gonozal_VIII>as a child i didn't even know what halloween was
18:59<Gonozal_VIII>and i should know, i'm born on that day
18:59-!-Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
19:01<ln->how big a budget does everyone have for spontaneous travelling?
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>ticket to berlin would cost 29 euro
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>there's a non-national holiday on that day
19:02<Gonozal_VIII>but i won't come :P
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't promise anything either
19:03<ln->me neither
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>O_o
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>you suggested it^^
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i what?
19:04<Gonozal_VIII>ln
19:04<ln->but the truth is, i haven't been to Berlin yet, and I intend to visit it sooner or later.
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, that line didn't really stick out ;)
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>must be the short nick ;)
19:07<ln->how long does it take to get from Gdansk to some e.g. Berlin by train?
19:08<Gonozal_VIII>glowny?
19:09<Gonozal_VIII>about 8h
19:09<Chrill>GNIGHTZ
19:10<ln->8h is fscking much
19:10<Gonozal_VIII>7:50 :-)
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19:11<Gonozal_VIII>it's 10h from here
19:12<Gonozal_VIII>9:51
19:13<ln->there will be a budget flight connection between Gdansk and Turku later this spring.
19:15<Gonozal_VIII>tickets to large parts of europe are 29 euro here
19:16<Gonozal_VIII>limited numbers...
19:18<Gonozal_VIII>well... i guess to germany it would be more expensive, i think they charge extra for the ice trains
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19:19<ln->ICE is cooler than other trains, too.
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19:20<Gonozal_VIII>mucht should really shut off what ever kind of scipt is causing his flooding all the time...
19:22<Gonozal_VIII>well ice is cool... but other trains have comfortable seats and a power outlet to plug the laptop in too and don't charge extra^^
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19:33<ln->bandwidth trouble again? :)
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm no... strange
19:34<Gonozal_VIII>his light on the router is not blinking like it usually does when he's downloading a lot
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19:58<ln->did you know there are areas where you can enter Russia without a visa or even passport?
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20:00<Gonozal_VIII>yes, there's lots of tundra and coastline and mountains and stuff like that
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20:22<ln->err, i didn't mean "you can unless someone notices you and kicks your ass", but "you can legally"
20:22<Gonozal_VIII>really? why?
20:24<ln->http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/Baltics/images/Varska-Saatse.jpg
20:25<Gonozal_VIII>and i'm supposed to know that region?^^
20:25<ln->that Lutepää village in south-east Estonia can only be entered by using those roads that cross the border.
20:25<Gonozal_VIII>ah i see
20:25<Gonozal_VIII>we have something simmilar here
20:25<ln->i didn't know Austria has common border with Russia.,
20:25<Gonozal_VIII>a town that can only be reached through germany
20:26<ln->ah, ok.
20:26<@Bjarni>back
20:26<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni!
20:26<@Bjarni>oops
20:26<ln->Gonozal_VIII: i suppose that doesn't cause much trouble nowadays, with Schengen and all?
20:27<@Bjarni>I see I got highlighted
20:27<@Bjarni>together with DorpsGek :)
20:27<Gonozal_VIII>they have some different laws and taxes there or something like that, that's why i heard about it
20:29<ln->also Llívia is interesting; http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Localitzaci%C3%B3_de_Ll%C3%ADvia.png
20:29<ln->that map isn't particularly good, btw. actually bad.
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20:30<Gonozal_VIII>i don't even know what country that is
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20:31<ln->Gonozal_VIII: look at this instead: http://www.grupcostabravacentre.com/reservashoteles/ftp_rh/img_mapes/idp_132.gif
20:31<ln->that's not a good map either, but better.
20:32<ln->one spanish town that is completely surrounded by france.
20:32<ln->that white part is france, not sea.
20:32<Gonozal_VIII>strange
20:33<Gonozal_VIII>even the highway between that town and the next spanish one is french...
20:33<Gonozal_VIII>i guess that complicates roadworks there
20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i know both these places ;)
20:34<Eddi|zuHause2>the spanish town in france and the austrian village
20:35-!-Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77D38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
20:38<ln->and none of this we can have in OTTD until it supports the concept of countries.
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20:50<Eddi|zuHause3>i have my doubts if we ever support this kind of corner cases ;)
20:53<ln->how sad
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20:55<ln->Bjarni: ban Mucht
20:55<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... all over the place i have these railway stubs, where i wanted to attach a new track
21:00<Eddi|zuHause3>1975 is way too late to introduce light signals
21:00<Gonozal_VIII>yep
21:00<Gonozal_VIII>i changed that to 45
21:00<Eddi|zuHause3>1950 is more like it
21:01<De_Ghost>more like 1848 :)
21:01<De_Ghost>semphore is so hard to look at
21:01<Eddi|zuHause3>semaphores are great
21:01<Gonozal_VIII>only in one of the directions
21:01<Sacro>i <3 semaphore
21:01<Eddi|zuHause3>but hardly any new ones got put up after the war
21:02<Sacro>light signals are impossible to see from behind
21:02<Gonozal_VIII>sacro, update advanced orders patch
21:02<Gonozal_VIII>:-)
21:02<Sacro>Gonozal_VIII: link?
21:02<Eddi|zuHause3>haha ;)
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>100% 90% 100,00% 690 310
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12193
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>huh? :S
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
21:03<Gonozal_VIII>those % are from the industry rating calculation thingy
21:04<ln->now, now, semaphores were only invented in 1974.
21:04<ln->by a dutchman.
21:06<Gonozal_VIII>i've spent the whole afternoon trying to update that patch^^
21:06<Eddi|zuHause3>the two-way-signal-turnaround code is broken, it makes my train immediately turn around when it should wait for the train to pass by
21:06<Eddi|zuHause3>i need to isolate that case somehow..
21:07<Sacro>oh
21:07<Sacro>i has a bug
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21:07<Sacro>when you uninstall 0.6.0b3 it leaves the data files behind D:
21:08<Eddi|zuHause3>uninstalling usually doesn't remove personal files
21:08<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: it asks about saves and scenarios
21:10<Gonozal_VIII>btw sacro that was more like a joke than an order ;-) i don't think that patch can be updated...
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21:12<Gonozal_VIII>but the features it offers would be really great to have again
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21:18<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> 1975 is way too late to introduce light signals <-- Siemens introduced them like 70 years earlier
21:18<@Bjarni>I think I recall something about 1908 but I'm not sure
21:19<@Bjarni>anyway
21:19<@Bjarni>time to go back to sleep
21:19<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: i meant widespread use
21:19<ln->Bjarni: first a ban
21:19<@Bjarni>Denmark began widespread use in the 1950s
21:19<ln->or well
21:19<Eddi|zuHause3>see
21:19<ln->Bjarni: do you still have semaphores in use?
21:20<@Bjarni>the last were removed 2 or 3 years ago
21:20<@Bjarni>ln-: ban?
21:20<Eddi|zuHause3>minor railways are very reluctant to replace those
21:20<ln->Bjarni: Mucht has been excess flooding the whole night.
21:21-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Mucht@*.openttdcoop.org] by Bjarni
21:21<@Bjarni>Mucht: you will be allowed back tomorrow ;)
21:21<Gonozal_VIII>whole night? whole week
21:21<@Bjarni>or whenever you stop your leak
21:21<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i also noticed it several days ago
21:21<@Bjarni><EddizuHause3> minor railways are very reluctant to replace those <-- actually the last railroad to use those were DSB (the state railroad)
21:22<@Bjarni>I can talk a lot about signals and stuff
21:22<@Bjarni>and can do so tomorrow if you ask me
21:22<@Bjarni>but not now
21:22<@Bjarni>goodnight
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22:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11997 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix(FS#1712, r11985): Remove the code temporary, until a better scheme is implemented.
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22:35<Gonozal_VIII>O_o
22:35<Gonozal_VIII>i can see the bugreports flying in
22:35<Gonozal_VIII>industries stopped working!
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 28 00:00:41 2008