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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-04

---Logopened Mon Feb 04 00:00:12 2008
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00:55<Gonozal_VIII>yay, shores under player owned land and
00:55<Gonozal_VIII>-and
00:55<ln->you haven't slept at all, have you?
00:55<Gonozal_VIII>nope
00:55<ln->excellent
00:56<Gonozal_VIII>but i have player owned land with shores^^
00:56<Gonozal_VIII>only in temperate for now and it's a hack because i didn't change the map array buuuut... it works^^
00:57<Gonozal_VIII>switch (ti->tileh) {
00:57<Gonozal_VIII> case 1: {
00:57<Gonozal_VIII> if (GetTileType(TILE_ADDXY(ti->tile, -1, 0)) == MP_WATER || GetTileType(TILE_ADDXY(ti->tile, 0, 1)) == MP_WATER) {
00:57<Gonozal_VIII>like that^^
00:58<Gonozal_VIII>did i mention it's a hack?^^
01:00<Gonozal_VIII>and it generates shores next to canals...
01:01<Gonozal_VIII>but there's not water status stored in unmovables so what should a poor gono do
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01:02<Gonozal_VIII>btw canal sprite creeps some green into the neighbouring tile.. that's not nice
01:14<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/ownedshore.png
01:17<ln->it's in the water, it may corrode.
01:17<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
01:17<Gonozal_VIII>signs in water exist...
01:18<Gonozal_VIII>i've seen them in lakes for boats...
01:18<ln->me too
01:19<Gonozal_VIII>to change the position of the sign wouldn't be too hard... but the whole thing is a hack
01:20<Gonozal_VIII>every tiletype should have the same 6 (or 8) bits reserved for terrain type
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01:35<Eddi|zuHause2>is that the same shape as in the picture explaining tileh?
01:35<Gonozal_VIII>yes
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01:36<Gonozal_VIII>even timed the pause to get that tile on the water :-)
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03:01<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/6%20bit%20terrain.png
03:04<@peter1138>why?
03:04<Gonozal_VIII>every tile should have that
03:05<Gonozal_VIII>all climate zones possible on every map and no wasted bits
03:07<@peter1138>why?
03:07<@peter1138>why would a water tile need that?
03:07<@peter1138>seems pretty wasted to me
03:07<hylje>seawater maybe not
03:07<hylje>but fresh water certainly
03:08<@peter1138>what does density have to do with town houses?
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03:08<Gonozal_VIII>ok, first 3 bits would be enough for those
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03:10<Gonozal_VIII>as long as there are no partially snowed houses or houses that start on bare land and grass grows slowly
03:11<Gonozal_VIII>well, there are houses that don't cover the whole tile
03:20<Gonozal_VIII>and you have a single method to set/get the ground type for every tile
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03:36<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/7%20bit%20terrain.png <-- that would also support partial grass/snow on coasts, hilly and rocky tiles
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03:42<Tron>i see, nothing has changed
03:42<Noldo>hi Tron
03:42<Gonozal_VIII>hi tron :-) nothing has changed?
03:43<Tron>yes, still the same redundant and wrong comments everywhere
03:43<Noldo>conserning what?
03:44<Tron>i just took a look into a random file and the first thing i saw was wrong documentation
03:44<Tron> * This function returns the number of trees of a tile (1-4).
03:44<Tron> * The tile must be contains at least one tree or be more specific: it must be
03:44<Tron> * of type MP_TREES.
03:44<Tron>and it's redundant, too
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03:45<Zoeff>Well what do you want, a cookie?
03:45<Zoeff>¬_¬
03:46<Tron>hehe, nice try
03:47<Zoeff>ha
03:47<Zoeff>touche
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04:23<@peter1138>arrr
04:24<Gonozal_VIII>pirate?
04:26<Gekz>no
04:26<Gekz>that's yarr.
04:26<Gekz>he just let out a hard fart.
04:26<Gonozal_VIII>ah, i see
04:32<Tron>peter1138: please fix the documentation of GetTreeCount() and its siblings. it's the worst kind of comments: it's redundant AND wrong
04:33<Tron>AddTreeCount() is even worse
04:33<Tron>0 does not mean no trees
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04:37<Noldo>how about making a diff?
04:38<Tron>Noldo: if somebody hadn't revoked my commit rights (without notifying me, i might add, which is not exactly nice) it would be fixed already
04:41<ln->who's the somebody?
04:42<@peter1138>!
04:42<@peter1138>hello tron
04:42<@peter1138>Tron,
04:42<@peter1138>er
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05:03<HMage>hey, do you have any idea why gprof would say that 'no time was accumulated'?
05:04<Tron>forgot to link with -pg?
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05:23<@peter1138>Bah, why can't weekdays and weekends be swapped around?
05:25<Gekz>peter1138: because I said so
05:25<Gekz>your beef is with me
05:25<Gekz>peter1138: I will change it around if you can spell "What in the hells is your name or I shall smite thee with all the power that I have amassed from my drug labs across South America" in French
05:27<@peter1138>Belugas, help me out!
05:28<Tron>peter1138: mind that he did not set a time limit
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05:36<@peter1138>*nod*
05:37<@peter1138>Hmm, CD ripping at 20x...
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05:44<HMage>Tron: I didn't.
05:45*Gekz waits impatiently.
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05:58<ln->nobody has fixed the error mentioned by Tron.
06:02<@peter1138>Indeed.
06:02*peter1138 is currently busy and without time to look at it :(
06:02<@peter1138>(Hence the weekend thing, heh)
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06:16<+michi_cc>anybody compiling with gcc here?
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06:18<DirtYiCE>hi
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06:26<@peter1138>hmm
06:26*peter1138 has no idea what the comments should be
06:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12054 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Cleanup: Use VehicleType instead of byte for vehicle types...
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06:31<SmatZ>hello
06:35<+michi_cc>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36107 should now also work with gcc
06:38<@peter1138>,.../* Check for occupied track */
06:38<@peter1138>,...//TODO
06:38<@peter1138>that is amusing :)
06:39<Tron>"To disallow passing through a PBS signal from behind, place a no-entry signal nearby facing the direction from which trains are not supposed to pass. Most times this should not be neccessary as passing a signal from behind is penalized by the pathfinder." *bewildered*
06:40<+michi_cc>What does bewilder you?
06:42<Tron>the whole sentence
06:44<@peter1138>Yers
06:46<Zavior>whu
06:46<Zavior>t
06:46<Zavior>pbs in ottd?
06:47<Zavior>nah you are kiddign!
06:47<+michi_cc>well, in my patch an one-way pbs signal can be passed from behind (the side with no lights), not like the normal signals which do not allow that. If you absolutly don't want that, place a no-entry signal somewhere along.
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06:48<@peter1138>hmm, one-way signals placed by default?
06:49<@peter1138>can't toggle pbs status
06:49<+michi_cc>design decision, you can always switch the patch setting off again
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06:50<Tron>why the change in the one-way behaviour?
06:50<@peter1138>michi_cc, ah, there is some interaction with the signal gui window then
06:51<+michi_cc>why not, Ii think it's more realsitic that way? it's inspired by http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Realistic_Path_Based_Signaling
06:51<Tron>it breaks established behaviour for no good reason
06:51<Tron>you should not cascade trinary operators
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06:52<Tron>+ byte track_b = GB(_m[t].m2, 8, 3);
06:52<Tron>+ Track track = (Track)(track_b - 1); // map array saves Track+1
06:52<Tron>+ return track_b ? (TrackBits)(TrackToTrackBits(track) | (HasBit(_m[t].m2, 11) ? TrackToTrackBits(TrackToOppositeTrack(track)) : 0)) : TRACK_BIT_NONE;
06:52<Tron>if (track_b == 0) return TRACK_BIT_NONE;
06:52<+michi_cc>peter1138: the patch setting only controls what the signal tool will build. I could always switch it back to cycle all possible signal types
06:52<+michi_cc>Tron: noted
06:53<@peter1138>my signals are all red
06:53<+michi_cc>start a train
06:53<@peter1138>this is fine, as it's default red
06:53<@peter1138>however, this stops yapf from trying to use a two-way signal
06:53<Tron>also you should use for (; cond; incr) { /* foo */ } instead of while (cond) { /* foo */ incr; }
06:54<Tron>+ assert(IsPlainRailTile(t) && b != INVALID_TRACK_BIT && !TracksOverlap(b));
06:54<+michi_cc>well, two-way pbs signals are not usefull the way I implemented it anyway
06:54<Tron>do not concatenate conditions in assert()s with &&
06:54<Tron>use separate assert()s
06:54<Tron>makes debugging easier
06:54<Tron>because you can tell right away, which part failed
06:55<Tron>exception: range checks, assert(23 <= x && x < 42); is fine
06:55<Tron>((byte)(b != TRACK_BIT_NONE)) & 1
06:55<Tron>huh?
06:56<@peter1138>yeah
06:58<@peter1138>GAH
06:58*peter1138 attempts to fool IE6 into not fucking up
06:58<@peter1138>tricky job, i must say
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07:07<TinoDidriksen>Do you have to? These days I tend to ignore IE6.
07:09<Tron>(byte)b & 1
07:09<Tron>?
07:13<@peter1138>TinoDidriksen, well i tried but the client didn't like it ;(
07:13<TinoDidriksen>Did you mention MS will push IE7 to everyone soon? Not that it's super, but it's a point.
07:13<Tron>+ if (IsPresignalEntry(tile, TrackdirToTrack(trackdir)) && (flags & SF_EXIT && !(flags & SF_GREEN))) newstate = SIGNAL_STATE_RED;
07:13<Tron>confusing parentheses
07:14<Tron>(and redundant)
07:15<Tron>+ } else if ((flags & SF_TRAIN) || (flags & SF_EXIT && !(flags & SF_GREEN) || (flags & SF_FULL))) {
07:16<Tron>again confusing and redundant
07:17<+michi_cc>which parentheses bother you? around the & terms?
07:17<TinoDidriksen>I find that parantheses make it easier to read.
07:17<Tron>a || (b && c || d)
07:17<Tron>this pair
07:18<TinoDidriksen>Only thing is that it's not consistent style, even in that one line.
07:18<Tron>and yes, the () around the & are redundant, too
07:19<TinoDidriksen>I'd write it as ((flags & SF_TRAIN) || ((flags & SF_EXIT) && !(flags & SF_GREEN) || (flags & SF_FULL)))
07:19<+michi_cc>a || (b && c) || d better? I know, these parens are redundant as well, but I think this is better for readability
07:19<Tron>a || (b && c || d) is certainly only confusing
07:20<TinoDidriksen>It shows how the author was thinking when he wrote it.
07:20<Tron>use a || (b && c) || d if you really need to silence gcc
07:20<Tron>TinoDidriksen: he didn't write it
07:20<TinoDidriksen>Ah
07:20<Tron>he only modified the line
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07:20<Tron>and changed the parentheses
07:21<Tron>forcing || into right-associativity /is/ confusing
07:21<Tron>also many cascaded pairs of parentheses is hard to read, too
07:21<+michi_cc>a & b with or without parenthesis around?
07:22<Tron>i prefer without, so it does not unnecessarily increase the global parentheses cound. stuff like three closing parentheses in a row is hard to decipher
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07:23<Tron>in any case do not force || and && into right-associativity
07:23<TinoDidriksen>Heh, style is fun. I find lots of parans easier to decipher. Faster to see where things are.
07:23<Tron>use newlines for that
07:23<+michi_cc>any other takers? I don't particularly care, but some people might not be that fluent in c operator precedence
07:24<Tron>if they aren't fluent in the very basics of the tool they are using, then they should not use the tool. they'll only hurt themselves
07:25<Tron>but my earlier question still is unasnwered: why the fundamental change in behaviour of one-way signals, which only makes using them error prone, without a good reason?
07:27<+michi_cc>because I don't like the old way pbs worked. nobody is forced to use my patch
07:27<@peter1138>it still has the flaw of the old pbs
07:27<@peter1138>it won't reserve a path to a non-pbs signal
07:28<@peter1138>i think you at least need default-noentry one-way signals, with passable 'one-way' as a toggle per signal or something
07:28<@peter1138>it seems to be useful for stations but not much else
07:28<+michi_cc>it does reserve paths to normal signals, if it doesn't this is a bug
07:29<@peter1138>it doesn't seem to
07:29<Tron>+ /* A signal tile can't be a junction tile */
07:29<Tron>+ assert(KillFirstBit(bits) == TRACK_BIT_NONE);
07:29<Tron>a tile with two parallel tracks?
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07:30<+michi_cc>TrackBits bits = GetTrackBits(next_tile) & DiagdirReachesTracks(dir);
07:30<+michi_cc>can two parallel tracks be reached at once?
07:31<Tron>hardly. use better variable names. "bits" says nothing, something like "reachable" would be better
07:33<@peter1138>heh, changing a signal direction when a train is stopped there causes it to go through
07:34<+michi_cc>peter1138: works for me: http://www.icosahedron.de/reserve_non_pbs.png
07:37<Tron>+ do { if (!ft.Follow(tile, td)) break; /* stuff */ } while (true)
07:37<Tron>while (ft.Follow(tile, td)) { /* stuff */ }
07:40<Tron>+ if (!(dont_free_tile && (ft.m_is_station || ft.m_is_tunnel || ft.m_is_bridge))) ClearPathReservation(tile, td);
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07:40<Tron>DeMorgan to the rescue!
07:41<Tron>also a negation in a variable name is not good
07:41<Tron>!dont_free_tile ... ugh
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07:45<Progman>if (entry->not_unused !== false) { } ;)
07:47<Tron>why stop with comparing one boolean?
07:47<Tron>if (x == false == false) {}
07:48<@peter1138>:o
07:48*peter1138 ponders foodage
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07:49<+michi_cc>!(a || b || c) or !a && !b && !c ?
07:51<Tron>clearly the latter
07:51<Tron>thinking in negations is hard
07:53<Progman>depend on the checks imo
07:53<Tron>!(a && (b || c || d)) is hard to parse
07:53<Tron>try to keep things in DNF
07:53<Progman>think of: file != "." && file != ".."
07:53<Tron>well, if != is a negation ...
07:54<Progman>< Progman> depend on the checks imo
07:54<Tron>!(file == ".") is certainly worse
07:54<Tron>i don't regard != a negation of something
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07:54<Tron>you could argue the same way for < and >= then, too
07:55<Tron>(though if the if has both then and else, i'll probably prefer if (x == a || x == b) {} else {} and swap then and else)
07:56<Progman>ACK
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08:12<Vikthor>michi_cc: I might have found a bug. http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pbsqh8.png The train from Mariano centrála reserves whole track to Mariano zastávka. I think it should have stopped on the first signal
08:17<@peter1138>urgh, popups :o
08:20<@peter1138>well that was evil
08:20<@peter1138>tesco have pringles for 49p instead of £1.50
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08:25<ln->what's that in schillings and pences?
08:26<SmatZ>cheap, but I won't buy pringles anyway :-p
08:26<ln->-c
08:27<@peter1138>4/1d (iirc)
08:28<@peter1138>SmatZ, you don't like their smack-coated goodness? heh
08:30<SmatZ>peter1138: I like these http://www.coffeeandtea.cz/images/bohemiasolene.jpg - very tasty :) and very salty
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08:38<LordAzamath>hello
08:41<+michi_cc>Vikthor: how did you manage to do that? I can't reproduce it
08:46<@peter1138>STUPID
08:46<@peter1138>STUPID STUPID STUPID
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08:53<@peter1138>pom te pom
08:54<SmatZ>peter1138: what is stupid?
08:55<@peter1138>oh, these speakers
08:55<@peter1138>with a headphone socket on them
08:56<@peter1138>plug in headphones and it doesn't turn the sub off :o
08:56<Forked>makes sense :)
08:57<@orudge`>well, they probably detected that your headphones had crappy bass or something :p
08:57<@peter1138>probably, they're only headphones...
08:58<@orudge`>the bass in my headphones is fairly decent
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09:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12055 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Fix: another way to fix AI trying to build road through depots
09:14<SpComb>myottd going down for installing-openwrt-onto-my-router purposes. There's actually two clients connected to myottd servers, out of a total of 30 servers or so...
09:26<@Belugas>hello
09:26-!-murray [murray@pc4103.stdby.hin.no] has joined #openttd
09:26*Belugas is now at work
09:26<@Belugas>yeah
09:26<@peter1138>Yay!
09:26<@peter1138>Er, I guess
09:27<@Belugas>almost (!)
09:27<@Belugas>just... yeah. So far, no big crisis hehe
09:29<@Belugas>spoken too fast...
09:29<@peter1138>:o
09:29<@Belugas>two crisis gaaaa!!!
09:29<@peter1138># crises! crises!
09:30<@peter1138># you can't get away
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09:36<@Belugas>Tron : ping
09:37<@peter1138>dingaling
09:49<Vikthor>michi_cc: I don't know. I have just build the track, and launched the trains(with orders). Should I upload save to forums?
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10:03<Amis>HI ALL
10:03<Amis>sorry, caps
10:03<@orudge`>YES, YOU SHOULD BE SORRY
10:03<@orudge`>:p
10:04<Amis>http://www.anticapslock.com :P
10:06<Amis>i still dont know why they produce keyboard with capslocks on it, i never use it, only when a game need it
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10:12<@peter1138>[233260.940376] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000
10:12<@peter1138>hmm, not good :o
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10:14<saati>Amis: for oldskool sql coders
10:16<Amis>hehh...
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10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12056 /trunk/src/ (tunnelbridge_map.h yapf/yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix [FS#1704]: Enable YAPF to start searching inside a wormhole.
10:27<Amis>wormhole?
10:27<Progman>tunnel entry
10:27<frosch123>and bridges
10:28<Progman>but indeed funny changelog line ;)
10:28<Amis>yea :)
10:31<@Belugas>totally logical to me, nothing funny about it
10:32<Amis>thats a wormhole: http://www.weeklyreader.com/readandwriting/content/binary/wormhole.jpg
10:32<Amis>thats why its funny... just started thinking if the wormhole is a feature or something in ottd :D
10:32<GoneWacko>I see the hole but where's the worm?
10:32<Amis>lol
10:33<@Belugas>that is not our type of wormhole
10:33<Amis>yeah i noticed :D
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10:38<@Belugas>the worm is the train :D
10:39<+glx>s/train/vehicle
10:39<+glx>(make it general)
10:39<frosch123>wormholes are danger, you might end up in locomotion on the other side :)
10:40-!-divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd
10:40<@Belugas>lol
10:40<@Belugas>right :)
10:44<Amis>is it possible to place stops on one-way roads?
10:44<@Belugas>ON ??
10:44<@Belugas>STOPS????
10:44<Amis>stations
10:44<@Belugas>well...
10:45<@Belugas>try it and tell us if you can ;)
10:45<frosch123>and if it works, report is as bug :)
10:46<Amis>well its works, it replace the road with the normal one
10:46<Amis>so the buses/trucks will use only one side of the stop
10:47<frosch123>But the oneway-restriction was removed, wasn't it?
10:47<Amis>yea
10:47-!-Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-213-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
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10:48<Amis>http://amis.weasy.net/stops.png
10:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12057 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: slowdown train when approaching 90deg turn when 90deg turns are forbidden
10:58<yorick>Brianetta, I have gotten the autopilot to work
10:58<Brianetta>Excellent.
10:58-!-fjb [~frank@p5485E1DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:58<fjb>Hello
10:58<Brianetta>hello.
11:00<frosch123>moin
11:00<yorick>it turns out that the email option has to be filled in
11:00<fjb>Hi frosch123, will I see you again this evening?
11:01<frosch123>I am planning so, at least :)
11:01<fjb>Great.
11:04<yorick>can I find Tk somewhere?
11:08*yorick is happy with getting the autopilot to work without having TCL or any of the libs installed :)
11:09<yorick>I'm compiling Tk right now
11:10<Eddi|zuHause2> <peter1138> however, this stops yapf from trying to use a two-way signal <- there's a patch option for that
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11:11<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2, yes, but when all two-ways are default red, it'll never work
11:11-!-mikl [~mikl@0x5733cec6.boanxx22.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:11<Eddi|zuHause2>"patch yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol off" or something
11:13<Eddi|zuHause2>and i said right from the beginning this option should be off by default
11:15<@Belugas>Amis, all is fine if the one-way restriction is removed too
11:15<@Belugas>and i thuink it is the case
11:15<@Belugas>so...
11:15<@Belugas>good :D
11:18<yorick>:( can't compile, don't have TCL installed
11:18<yorick>it needs TclConfig.tcl
11:19-!-SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
11:19<yorick>anyone that has the Tk lib for windows precompiled?
11:19<@peter1138>wibble
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11:20<yorick>wibble ? :S
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11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12058 /trunk/src/npf.cpp:
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: Teach NPF where road vehicles and trams can reverse.
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: Ships can drive through opponents' ship depots. (Thanks SmatZ)
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Split NPFFollowTrack() in smaller parts.
11:24<OTTD>Hi
11:25<OTTD>Is there anybody who is able to tell me how to compile .patch files?
11:25-!-mikl [~mikl@0x5733cec6.boanxx22.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:25<saati>OTTD: you dont compile patch files
11:25<frosch123>Try BuildOTTD from the sticky post in the development forum
11:25<saati>OTTD: you patch the source with it, and than compile that
11:26<OTTD>ok I have BuildOTTD installed but what do i have to do?
11:26<@Belugas>wasn't there a readme, or a manual on how to do it?
11:26<frosch123>I think it is on the wiki
11:26<@Belugas>or a forum page or something?
11:27<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/BuildOTTD
11:27<@Belugas>wiki is good enought
11:27<OTTD>BuildOTTD says unknow file foramt
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11:35<@peter1138>frosch123, you can now block canals easily
11:37-!-MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit []
11:39<@peter1138>well, not canals, but other non-owned paths
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11:41*frosch123 is totally lost
11:41<@peter1138>me too
11:42<DaleStan>Belugas: At newgrf.cpp:2120. prop 24 is a word, not a doubleword.
11:42-!-Osai [~Osai@pD9EB619D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:44<+glx>as all TextIDs indeed
11:45<@Belugas>noted
11:45<@Belugas>thanks
11:46<@Belugas>i'll change that as soon as i humanly can
11:46<+glx>I can do it if you want Belugas
11:46<@Belugas>DaleStan, any problems if i introduce text properties for bridges?
11:47<@Belugas>thansk, glx, it would be appreciated
11:47<@Belugas>i will not be able to have lunch today :S
11:47<@Belugas>therefor, no time for ottd
11:47<@peter1138>grrrr
11:47<@Belugas>quite
11:47-!-Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-235-35.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd
11:48<DaleStan>Like new names, or something else?
11:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12059 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r12041): industries prop 24 is a word
11:49<@peter1138>instead of relying on replacing the original text, i believe
11:49<@peter1138>WORD
11:50<@Belugas>exact, peter1138 and DaleStan
11:51<@Belugas>thanks glx :)
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11:52<DJ-Nekkid>DaleStan: (or someone) im coding a train, and the 1st wagin behind the MU head is the one with the phanto. but when it turn that wagon "jumps" ... is it possible to make it so that it's the first wagon in --> direction, and the last in <-- direction? currently is my Var2 this; -1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00 where BB is phanto'ed wagon, and BA is normal one
11:52<DaleStan>Define "turn"?
11:52<@peter1138>heh
11:52<+glx>reverse maybe
11:52<@peter1138>reverses
11:52<DJ-Nekkid>well, reverse
11:52<@peter1138>yes it is but not in ottd
11:53<+glx>you need something unimplemented ;)
11:53<@peter1138>and you need some varaction2 magic
11:53<DaleStan>Belugas: Shouldn't be too much of a problem; obviously the names for Open's extra bridges won't work.
11:53<DJ-Nekkid>so my best bet would be a active panto, and unactive panto wagon, and but one at each end
11:54<@Belugas>DaleStan: you mean they will not work in ttdp? agreed, since for now we have 2 more
11:54<@Belugas>and, for now, they are based on direct ids
11:54<DaleStan>DJ-Nekkid: It's modflags (var FE/FF) bit 8.
11:54<+glx>and it's not in ottd yet
11:55<DJ-Nekkid>oh... ill nvm that then...
11:55<+glx>DJ-Nekkid: you should always design grfs for ttdpatch (and hope they'll work in ottd ;) )
11:56<DJ-Nekkid>hehe
11:56*peter1138 mumbles about certain grf authors working around ottd newgrf bugs instead of reporting them
11:56<DJ-Nekkid>well, im currently in my limit of my coding abilities...
11:57<DJ-Nekkid>and im thinking i should prioritize to make the set finished, and then make advanced features when done
11:57<DJ-Nekkid>and perhaps my skills will increase in the prosess
11:57*glx agrees with peter1138
11:57<DJ-Nekkid>process
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11:58<+glx>if they miss a newgrf feature and have a grf working in ttdp we can implement the missing stuff and check if it works
11:58*DJ-Nekkid hides in a corner, probably but not sure, with guilt
11:59<DaleStan>Belugas: Yeah. Defining data for Open's two extra bridges will cause TTDPatch to do undefined things.
11:59<DaleStan>Finding the texts won't be hard, but patching them may be more interesting; I haven't looked yet.
12:01<@Belugas>DaleStan: So i should wait until you say go. It's not an urgent matter tough. Note that I do have a few new properties in mind for bridges.
12:01<@peter1138>"I seriously doubt that fast forward makes the game move as fast as your computer is able to run it."
12:01<@peter1138>lol
12:02<SmatZ>that is serious
12:03<+glx>"...graphics card is better in the C2D system" <-- not relevant ;)
12:03<DaleStan>Worst case scenario, we document "In Patch change Text IDs 500E..5014 and 501B..5028 instead of setting these Text IDs."
12:04<@Belugas>indeed. Although not a nice work around :). But i can live with it
12:05<@peter1138>so many different methods to set text ids :o
12:05<@peter1138>well, stations & station classes have their own way, anyway
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12:15<DaleStan>Belugas: OK. Quite easy, for all three of the ID spaces. Three easily locatable TTD tables to modify.
12:16<@Belugas>nice :)
12:16<DaleStan>If the three properties you have in mind are "purchase name", "Road query name" and "Rail query name", anyway. If you want different names for "rail purchase" and "road purchase", then I'll have to change the (two) accesses instead. Which is not much harder.
12:16<@Belugas>yes, indeed. 3 strings. 1 for purchase and two for ingame description (road/rail)
12:17<@Belugas>we do have only 3 strings too
12:17<@Belugas>so, adding your idea would not be too hard weither in here
12:17<@Belugas>we do it?
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12:18<@Belugas>the new string will be of course based on the original purchase one
12:18<joey_>Hey how do I include newGRFs into my Server when I only have putty for that?
12:18<joey_>what do I have to change in the .cfg?
12:18-!-joey_ is now known as DJGummikuh
12:18<saati>openttd devs: wouldn't you like to put in new trams after 1996?
12:19<Ammler>DJGummikuh: configure it local, save and upload it to server
12:19<Ammler>and load the server with that save
12:20<@Belugas>saati, you can do it yourself, if you wish. It is called writing a grf
12:20<DJ-Nekkid>hey DaleStan: to that line i gave you earlier, (-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00
12:20<DJ-Nekkid>ehm
12:20<DJ-Nekkid>there is more to that...
12:20<saati>Belugas: the grf file control the names/properties of vehicles?
12:20<@Belugas>yup
12:20<saati>hmm
12:20<@Belugas>even the graphics
12:20<saati>i knew about that
12:21<saati>i thought it's just the graphics
12:21<@Belugas>very far from it ;)
12:21<saati>thanks, i'll look into it then
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12:23<saati>another question: will the 0.6.0 include the tram grf or will it be an extra download still?
12:23<Ammler>saati: which trams would you include?
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12:24<saati>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=173 this?
12:25<DJGummikuh>is it possible that r12059 or so can't handle newgrfs correctly?
12:25<DJ-Nekkid>hey DaleStan: to that line i gave you earlier, (-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00) can i add 40 00 BB 01 BC 00 01 01 (before the BA 00 that is the default), and it will add another grapics at the end of the train?
12:25<DJGummikuh>I'm trying to add the aviator newGRF and it puts my CPU to 100% and does nothing
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12:26<DaleStan>Paste the whole sprite please, DJ-Nekkid.
12:27<DaleStan>After the adding, that is.
12:27<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 40 00 BB 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00
12:27<DJ-Nekkid>HMM
12:27<DJ-Nekkid>wait
12:27<DJ-Nekkid>thats wrong
12:27<Phantasm>Using the smooth economy (more, smaller changes) patch with fluctuating economy difficulity setting, the amount of industries goes absurdly low on a big map. Starting with very low number of industries there were something like 150-200 industries on 1024x1024 map. Now after playing 30 years (1950->1980), there are only 69 industries left. My guessing is that the problem comes from odds of new industries being made not changing based on map size.
12:27<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 40 00 BB 01 CB 00 01 01 BA 00
12:27<DJ-Nekkid>that would be the correct one
12:27<DJ-Nekkid>where CB is the wagon at the end
12:28<Phantasm>Also with smooth economy patch, when ever an industry production drops 50%, there will immediately be closure of the industry. Thus, it could just state it closes instead of two messages.
12:29<Phantasm>Using 0.6.0-beta3 version.
12:29<saati>yeah, i ran into that too
12:30<saati>many industries close down soon\
12:30<saati>before i have time to get some stuff there to keep them going
12:30<Phantasm>To compensate the normal odds of industries going down when not used, there should be very high odds of new indutries starting on big maps.
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12:34<@Belugas>Phantasm, you are totally wrong, sorry. smooth economy does not change the appearance of industries, nor at creation nor ingame
12:34<@Belugas>it has only impact on production
12:34<saati>Belugas: than what closes down the industrys?
12:34<@Belugas>and i pretty much do doubt that 50% IMMEDIATE closure figure too...
12:35<Phantasm>Belugas: I never stated smooth economy had anything to do with that. I just stated that is the setting being used. And I haven't tested with other setting, so I can't say how it goes there.
12:35<@Belugas>well... that is what i read out of your line...
12:35<Phantasm>Anyway the problems is: Industry amount goes to way too low on big maps.
12:36<@Belugas>saati, production, actually. and prodution decreases for quite a few reasons
12:36<@Belugas>Phantasm, you jsut have to serve them. and serve them well
12:36<@Belugas>they do not sit there just for the pleasure of the eyes
12:37<Phantasm>Belugas: Are you saying that the amount of self-sustaining industries should be same on 2048x2048 map than in normal 256x256 map?
12:37<@Belugas>proportionally, yes
12:37<Phantasm>Imho 64 times as big map should have 64 times the industries being alive without doing anything.
12:38<@Belugas>that is the case already
12:39<@Belugas>as the map grows, the number of industries grow too
12:39<@Belugas>they are scaled
12:39<Phantasm>1024x1024 is 16 times as big as 256x256, and I have a total of 69 industries left now and about 20 of those are operated at over 60%. That is 4.3 industries in 256x256 map.
12:39<DaleStan>DJ-Nekkid: That parses as follows, assuming you fix <nvar>: Go to cID BB for value from 01 to 01, go to cID 40 for value from BB to 01 (! Inaccessable), go to cID CB for value from 01 to 01 (! Inaccessable; already caught), go to cID BA, else.
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12:39<Phantasm>The start count of industries works just fine, but on big map the industries die off like there is no end. Then you are left with about same amount of unused industries as you would have been in 256x256 map.
12:40<@Belugas> num = (ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_REFINERY || ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_OIL_RIG) ? ScaleByMapSize1D(num) : ScaleByMapSize(num);
12:40<@Belugas>that's the line that scale them
12:40<DaleStan>DJ-Nekkid: You can never have more than one <nvar> in a single action 2, and all <variable>/<varadjust> bits always appear before the first.
12:40<DaleStan>before it*
12:40<@Belugas>Phantasm: industry_cmd.cpp:1692 or something
12:41<@Belugas>Phantasm, if you do not serve them, of course they will die
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12:41<Phantasm>Belugas: In 256x256 map after 100 years. What would be about the amount of industries that are left alive unserved?
12:42<Phantasm>Assuming all industries are unserved for the entire time.
12:42<@Belugas>the hell if i can answer you
12:44<DaleStan>Belugas: you were complaining about prop 24 being a PITA a while back. Is the problem in testing for the "property set to 0" case?
12:44<Phantasm>Ok, let's take it from this count.. On 1024x1024 map, after 30 years of gameplay, there are only 69 industries left (50 out of which are unserved, but let's even take the full count). Scaling that to 256x256 map gives 4.3 industries. That is 4-5 industries left (in addition to served industries) on normal sized map after 30 years of gameplay. Do you see something weird on that?
12:44<@peter1138>ARGH
12:44<@peter1138>AI has destroyed cities :(
12:45<@Belugas>DaleStan, no, that is fine. It's more about how to implement properly the search of industries around the station withouth duplicating yeat another search pattern function
12:45<Phantasm>Belugas: What I'm saying, is that the amount of unserved industries after long time isn't scaled on map size.
12:45<@Belugas>as soon as i can find a proper way of doing, i'm sure it will be easily done
12:46<Phantasm>Belugas: That is, after say 1000 years of time to be sure, any size of map will have same amount of industries if none of them is served. There is no scaling whatsoever on that.
12:46<Phantasm>Yes, unserved industries should die the same on all sized, but on 64 times bigger map, there should be 64 times as many new industries beginning.
12:47<@Belugas>how can that be scaled????
12:47-!-yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
12:47<@Belugas>-> /* 3% chance that we start a new industry */
12:47<@Belugas>it is 3% at 256*256, 3% at 1024*1024 and so on
12:49<@Belugas>So, if you do not serve them, i don't care. It is a big map? Not my problem. Yo can't serve them? same stuff. They all die? we all do
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12:50<@Belugas>the process of closing an industry has nothing to care about the size of the map
12:50<@Belugas>it it the same law been applied to all industries, one per month
12:50<Phantasm>Belugas: If you start a game on 256x256 map, all industries unserver the industries count over time is x(t). On 16 times as big map (1024x1024 for example) the x(0) is 16 times as big. But x(inf) is same on both. That is a problem. 16 times as big map area should have 16 times as many unserved industries alive just fine.
12:50<Phantasm>Do you think that in one country, say England, there are same amount of industries spawned per month than in the whole world? As in all industries on the whole world are spawned in England.
12:51<Phantasm>If the odds of industry spawning on 256x256 is 3% per month, then on 1024x1024 map it should be 16 times as much, that is 48%.
12:51<@Belugas>yeah right...
12:52<DaleStan>16 times as much as 3% is not 48%. Percentages don't multiply like that.
12:52<Phantasm>DaleStan: Yes they do.
12:52<DJGummikuh>in that case they do I believe
12:52<saati>Phantasm: try that out
12:52<Phantasm>If you want 16 times as many industries coming at any given time, they do multiply like that.
12:52*Belugas gets out for some fresh air
12:53<saati>it will spawn the whole map with lots of industries in a not so long time
12:53<Phantasm>Give me a link to some dev thing where I should psot this to get more developers to see this.
12:53<Phantasm>saati: And in 16 times as big map, thre should be 16 times as many industries.
12:54<DaleStan>But if you're spawning them 16 times as often, you also have to test for closure 16 times as often, or it'll be unbalanced.
12:55<Phantasm>DaleStan: Closure scales on map size.
12:55<Phantasm>A single industry has same odds for closure. Thus 16 times as many industries cause closure 16 times as often.
12:55<DaleStan>I thought Belugas just finished saying that Open updated one industry per month.
12:56<DaleStan>Regardless of map size.
12:56<Phantasm>Game mechanics state there is 4.5% odds for any industry to change production per month.
12:57<Phantasm>That is for 200 industries that is 9 on average per month change production. For closing I don't know the exact way.
12:57<Phantasm>But the outcome sure is that on 1024x1024 map the number of industries is way too low after time.
13:00<@peter1138>> home
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13:05<Wolf01>hello
13:06<Gonozal_VIII>hi
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13:16<@Belugas>DaleStan, not quite exactly...sorry... What i meant is that each and every industry will be updated once per month. so, if we have 40 industries, there will be 40 updates, 100 indus = 100 updates. Per month
13:17<@Belugas>i have been carried away and not payking attention to my words :S
13:18<@Belugas>[12:55] <Phantasm> A single industry has same odds for closure. Thus 16 times as many industries cause closure 16 times as often. <-- wrong. If it is unserved, maybe. but served, not.
13:18<@Belugas>and it all de-ends of the type of industries.
13:18<@Belugas>some have a longer life than others
13:18<@Belugas>and grf industries are even different
13:19<@Belugas>so making a rule out of logic is not really a good way to go
13:19<@Belugas>While I was walking, tough, i was thinking about that 3% chances. Maybe there can be some stuff to do about it. But for sure, a simple muliplication is not really welcome
13:20<@Belugas>should be something else
13:20<@Belugas>i just do not want to work on that right now, i have a cute little project i would like to do first
13:23<Phantasm>It depends in whether the wanted outcome on 1024x1024 is 16 maps 'like' 256x256 or bigger distances between industries later on.
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13:24<@Belugas>?? charabia to me
13:24<Phantasm>Perhaps there could be a patch setting for it. Say normal (simple multiplication) and reduced (say, half scaled).
13:25<@Belugas>a patch! Why didn't I though about it! Of COURSE!
13:25*orudge` patches Belugas's brain
13:25<DJGummikuh>lol?
13:25<Phantasm>...
13:25-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
13:25<Phantasm>I'm talking about those settings in 'configure patches'.
13:26<@Belugas>lol @ orudge :D
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13:26<@peter1138>Arrr
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13:28<@Belugas>I perfectly know waht patches are, Phantasm. Adding a patch is not a problem as per say. The underground method it support has to be chosen first, if ever it is intented to be added.
13:28<@Belugas>that was a sarcasm, by the way...
13:28<@peter1138>Arrr!
13:28<@peter1138>So...
13:28<@Belugas>and no, i will not make it (if ever i dare to do so) a multiplication stuff
13:28*peter1138 awaits complication.
13:28<@Belugas>hello and wb peter1138 :)
13:29<@peter1138>No I don't.
13:29<Phantasm>If we just multiply the odds for new industries popping up, the number of industries x(t) will equal to 16x(t) on 16 times bigger map assuming same percentage of industries is served on both. So, if players wanted to, they could divide a 1024x512 map into 8 sections of 256x256 maps and each 8 players could play equivalent 256x256 map single player game (without AIs) but with multiplayer so they can see eachothers.
13:29*peter1138 awaits compilation. Totally different.
13:29<Phantasm>Belugas: Well, on irc sarcasm works somewhat badly. Without knowing the other person, being sure if something is sarcasm or not is quite hard.
13:29<Yorick>Brianetta, could you implement a server_name in the irc commands?
13:29<Yorick>for your autopilot?
13:30<@orudge`>he's not here :p
13:31<Yorick>aaw
13:31*Yorick dusts off a kitchen towel and slaps it at himself
13:31<Andel>stupid autopilot
13:32<@peter1138>AUTOPILOT SUCKS!
13:32<@peter1138>Oh wait, too slow :/
13:33<Yorick>yes, but I'm not going to make my own script :-P
13:33<Phantasm>Belugas: Anyway, as it is currently, the outcome on significantly bigger maps than the normal is absurd. On a 2048x2048 map it would give an average distance of like 500 squares to nearest factory from production industry. So, something should be done at it.
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14:06<dih>hi
14:07<Yorick>hi
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14:07<dih>@seen Bjarni
14:07<@DorpsGek>dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 21 hours, 6 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> my HD is bigger than that
14:07<dih>heh
14:08<Gonozal_VIII>no bjarni! :-(
14:08<dih>i need bjarni though
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14:19<HMage>всем мямя
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14:21<dih>yes - hello
14:22<@peter1138>Quite.
14:22<Prof_Frink>orudge1138?
14:23<Forked>I really hate wireless networks.
14:23<Prof_Frink>Now there's a scary thought. Over eleven hundred orudgen
14:23<@peter1138>Quite.
14:24*peter1138 wonders if there are any good scenarios with rivers.
14:24*orudge` sets the army on Progman
14:24<@orudge`>agh
14:24<@orudge`>gah
14:24<@orudge`>Prof_Frink
14:24<hylje>collateral damage
14:24<Prof_Frink>rudgetabfail
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14:30*dih waves
14:30*Yorick waves back
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14:34<Gonozal_VIII>is there a parameter to get make to compile in reverse alphabetical order? takes ages and then fails at yapf something...
14:35<Gonozal_VIII>hmm no pbs
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14:36<Gonozal_VIII>nvm failed faster this time...
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14:47<Gonozal_VIII>:-( can't get that patch to work
14:50<+michi_cc>Gonozal_VIII: you're talking about my pbs patch?
14:50<Gonozal_VIII>yes
14:51<+michi_cc>which compiler? and you did download v2?
14:51<Gonozal_VIII>compiler.. good question, i don't know
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>mingw, msys
14:52<Gonozal_VIII>tortoise merge doesn't like the v2 files
14:53<Gonozal_VIII>yapp_r12052_svn.patch has lots of errors
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14:54<+michi_cc>I don't develop with Tortoise, so I can't really help you there. But v1 is known to fail with gcc (mingw)
14:55<+michi_cc>if you have a command line patch, you can apply the file from the first post with patch -p1 < yapp_r12052_v2.patch
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14:58<Gonozal_VIII>oh i guess i found the problem
14:58<Gonozal_VIII>revert doesn't remove the pbs.cpp file
14:58<Gonozal_VIII>then everything is doubled inside
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15:00<+glx>of course it doesn't, and patch likes to readd new files at the end :)
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15:01<Gonozal_VIII>i had everything twice in that file...
15:01<+michi_cc>check pbs.h as well
15:01<Gonozal_VIII>deleted the whole dir
15:03<Gonozal_VIII>it really should revert new files too...
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15:03<+glx>no because they aren't in svn
15:03<+glx>so it doesn't know about them
15:03<@peter1138>tortoise could add them when it patches
15:04<@peter1138>but otherwise, indeed.
15:04<+glx>tortoise fails when -p is needed ;)
15:07<Gonozal_VIII>compiling now
15:08<Gonozal_VIII>had to do configure twice and make twice, first time always fails because of some endian stuff
15:08<Gonozal_VIII>wow, pbs compiled
15:10<Gonozal_VIII>yay compile ready :D
15:10<Sacro>michi_cc: hellooooooo, pbs is looking good
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15:15*Forked cries
15:15<Gonozal_VIII>poor forked
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15:15<Forked>:(
15:15<Sacro>Bonjourno Brianetta (:
15:20<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm waiting depots don't work
15:21<Sacro>Wolf01: what is "with" in italian? "prep"?
15:21<Gonozal_VIII>yay, 2nd crash
15:21<Gonozal_VIII>^^
15:21<Wolf01>"con"
15:21<Sacro>hmm
15:22<Sacro>as in "i'd like $starter with $maincourse"
15:22<Wolf01>like bread with ham
15:22<Sacro>mm, that does sosund nice
15:22<Sacro>vorrei... errr...
15:22<Sacro>ah, bbl
15:22<Wolf01>lol
15:23<@peter1138>as in chilli con carne
15:24<Sacro>peter1138: ah indeed
15:24<Maedhros>isn't that spanish?
15:24<Sacro>or mexican
15:25<@peter1138>shh ;)
15:25<Wolf01>is the same in italian
15:33-!-Sogard^ [~Sogard@ip68-106-53-175.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #openttd
15:34<@orudge`>and English!
15:34<@orudge`>:p
15:36<Wolf01>yes, but that is a name of a food
15:37<Prof_Frink>What about sarah con nor?
15:37<Wolf01>...
15:37<Prof_Frink>
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15:39<dih>night ladies
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16:24<Abio>hello all, ive a little problem with openttd: i want to play a lan-game with my brother, and all works fine except, i want to start the game at 2040 and let it run till 3500 or so, but if i start the game it resets every 1st january
16:25<Abio>i allready opened the cfg file and tried to change the values there, when i start the game again i see the values are changed, but still it restart every 1st janary
16:25<+glx>what's the value for restart_game_year ?
16:25<@peter1138>Set restart_game_year to 0.
16:26<Abio>ok thanx i try that
16:26<Abio>value is now 3050
16:27<Abio>peter1138 thanx
16:27<Abio>i had the value at end_gameyear
16:27<Abio>ending_year that is
16:27<Abio>glx thanx to :)
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>isn't it kind of boring to play from 2040 to 3500? no new vehicles ever
16:29<Gonozal_VIII>or do you have grfs for that?
16:29-!-Guest410 [~Gonozal_V@N859P017.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:29<Abio>my brother wants to play it this way :)
16:29<DJ-Nekkid>is it currently possible to have new vehicles after 2044?
16:30<Gonozal_VIII>i don't know any grfs that have that but it should be possible
16:30<DJ-Nekkid>Long format introduction date (2A)
16:30<DJ-Nekkid>Set the vehicle introduction date, in days since the year 0. This takes account of leap years; dividable by 4, but not 100 unless 400. A start date of 1920-01-01 is obtained with a value of 701265 (51 B3 0A 00). This property must be set after property 00 to take effect. In TTDPatch, dates after 2044 will be limited to 2044.
16:31<DJ-Nekkid>not sure if that also is the fact for open
16:31<Gonozal_VIII>there's a long version o the date that goes from year 0 to i don't know
16:31<DJ-Nekkid>that is the long version
16:31<Gonozal_VIII>oh right
16:31<@peter1138>If that applied for OpenTTD, then it wouldn't say "In TTDPatch" ...
16:32<DJ-Nekkid>that is quote from the newgrf wiki
16:32-!-DJGummikuh [~joey@xdsl-87-78-94-35.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
16:32<DJ-Nekkid>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0
16:32<DJ-Nekkid>bottom property
16:32<DJ-Nekkid>no wait
16:32<DJ-Nekkid>wrong section
16:32<Gonozal_VIII>i guess limit would be something like the year 11.7 million
16:32<DJ-Nekkid>oki... :)
16:33<DJ-Nekkid>aprox year 11,7 mill, yea... heh
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16:36<@Belugas>what?? only 11.7 million ??? That limit MUST be raised!
16:36<DJ-Nekkid>rofl!
16:37<DJ-Nekkid>year 11.767.033 to be exact :)
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16:39<Tefad>DJ-Nekkid: you forgot 251 days.
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16:40<Gonozal_VIII>what if somebody wants to play until the sun burns out? :O
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>he wouldn't have any new vehicles then!
16:41<@peter1138>Le sigh...
16:41<@peter1138>This laptop screen is too high resolution :(
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>too high resolution?
16:42<@peter1138>Yes.
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>lower it?
16:42<@Belugas>[16:41] <Gonozal_VIII> what if somebody wants to play until the sun burns out? :O <-- i'd kick him in the butt hard for its stupidity
16:42<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
16:42<@peter1138>That's all very well if you like blurry lines...
16:43<@orudge`>what is the screen size and resolution?
16:44<@peter1138>15", 1400x1050
16:45<Gonozal_VIII>they're still producing 3:4 screens for laptops?
16:45<Gonozal_VIII>4:3...
16:46<@orudge`>well, my 13" screen is 1280x800, 1400x1050 doesn't seem so bad for 15"
16:47<@orudge`>although, my old 15" laptop (or was it 14.1") was 1024x768, I think
16:47<@orudge`>can't really remember
16:47<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, I don't know, this one is fairly old.
16:47<Gonozal_VIII>my 17" is 1440*900
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16:49<Gonozal_VIII>i hope they don't introduce that 2,35:1 format as standard...
16:50<Wolf01>'night
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16:59<@orudge`>Gonozal_VIII: doubt it
17:00<@orudge`>16:9, or 16:10 on computer TFTs, seems to be the standard these days
17:00<Gonozal_VIII>4:3 was standard...
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>than they made movie format 16:9
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>now 16:9 is standard... and movie format 2,35:!
17:01<@orudge`>well
17:01<@orudge`>movies have been 2.35:1 for a long time
17:01<Gonozal_VIII>only some, it's spreading slowly
17:01<@orudge`>or at least, similar aspect ratios
17:02<@orudge`>most "cinematic" films have been 2.35:1 since the 70s at least
17:02<@orudge`>TV has only gone widescreen (16:9) over the past 10 years or so
17:02-!-Maedhros [~jc@host86-145-214-168.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:05<+glx>and they still mostly broadcast in 4:3
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17:06<Gonozal_VIII>i have a 4:3 tv
17:06<Gonozal_VIII>so i like 4:3 broadcastings
17:08<@orudge`>[19:05:55] <glx> and they still mostly broadcast in 4:3 <-- not over here
17:08<@orudge`>most programmes, except archived material obviously, are made in 16:9 now
17:09<@orudge`>(archived material is either broadcast in the original aspect ratio, or is cropped (boo hiss), or is pillarboxed (which is OK I guess)
17:10<@peter1138>michi_cc, trains reversing cause a few crashes :(
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17:10<Gonozal_VIII>no signals after stations causes crashes too... don't do that^^
17:11<Gonozal_VIII>and switches that can be entered from all sides need at least one line without a signal to prevent deadlocks
17:12<Audigex>gonozal, could you explain that to me?
17:12<Audigex>don't get it
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>what?
17:12<Audigex>[22:11] <Gonozal_VIII> and switches that can be entered from all sides need at least one line without a signal to prevent deadlocks
17:12<Gonozal_VIII>wow that question was fast then^^
17:12<Audigex>lol yeah, happened to be watching
17:13<Audigex>the "no signals after stations causes crashes" i got
17:13<@peter1138>with a pbs patch
17:14<Audigex>okays, i just use the basic patch settings for the most part
17:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12060 /trunk/src/ (town_cmd.cpp town_map.h):
17:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: do not clear tiles when the town won't be able to build any buildings anyway
17:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: allow building 2x2 building on slopes if not explicitly forbidden
17:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: it was possible to build 2x1 and 1x2 buildings on slopes even if it was not allowed
17:17<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/deadlock.png
17:17<Audigex>surely on the top one, everything just stops?
17:17<Audigex>oh wait
17:18<Audigex>i think i read about this
17:18<Audigex>one way signals only affect trains facing that way? they dont stop those going the other way?
17:18<Gonozal_VIII>yes
17:18<Audigex>kk
17:18<Audigex>thanks :)
17:18<Audigex>im great with openttd until i get into the really advanced signalling
17:19<Audigex>at which point a build extra tracks and be damned with realisticness
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>that system isn't yet in openttd
17:19<Audigex>*realism
17:19<Gonozal_VIII>it was but got removed again... that's a new patch
17:20<Audigex>fair enough
17:20<Audigex>it makes sense to upgrade signals a lot
17:21<Audigex>in openttd the only way i can make one way track is to only allow one train along it at a time
17:21<Audigex>in real life two might go along close together, then some the other way
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17:29<Gonozal_VIII>btw, signal selection window should stay open until you close it or you close the railroad construction window... or/and it should keep the last selection
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17:39<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/6%20bit%20terrain.png :-)
17:39<Gonozal_VIII>http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/7%20bit%20terrain.png :-)
17:39<+glx>spamer
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17:39<Gonozal_VIII>yep
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17:40<Gonozal_VIII>that system would have lots of possibilities that are not there now
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17:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12061 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Cleanup: since r12060, DC_FORCETEST is not used anymore
17:47<Gonozal_VIII>*rofl*
17:47<Gonozal_VIII>just saw a video on youtube with a german politician talking about mandatory canibalism
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18:04<DJ-Nekkid>mind a newgrf-question again?
18:04<DJ-Nekkid>if anyone is awake, that is
18:04<Gonozal_VIII>never ask if you can ask a question :P
18:04<DJ-Nekkid>well ...
18:05<DJ-Nekkid>im gonna try to make the first wagon (after engine) have 1 grapic, the middle ones have 1 grapic, and the last one (before other MU'head) have one
18:05<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 B3 81 40 00 FF 01 B1 00 01 01 B0 00
18:05<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 B4 81 40 00 BB 01 B3 00 01 01 B2 00
18:05<DJ-Nekkid>i tried that, but something didnt work...
18:05<DJ-Nekkid>B0 is the middle one, B1 is the first one, and B2 is the last one
18:06<DJ-Nekkid>changeing b3 and b2 in the 2nd line dont help either
18:07<DJ-Nekkid>but it perhaps should...
18:09<DJ-Nekkid>when i do that does the last wagon get the proper grapic, but the first one also gets it
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm
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18:11<Gonozal_VIII>what's that 81?
18:12<DJ-Nekkid>hmm
18:12<DJ-Nekkid>it seemed to work when i changed the order
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18:12<DJ-Nekkid>the 2nd line at the first line
18:12<DJ-Nekkid>and changed the proper ID's as well
18:13<DJ-Nekkid>80+x feature-specific variable, see following feature-specific pages
18:13<DJ-Nekkid>hehe
18:13<DJ-Nekkid>i dont know what it is, i just know it have something to do with what i want >(
18:13<DJ-Nekkid>:)
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18:15<Gonozal_VIII>you don't know what it does? then where did you get that from?
18:16<DJ-Nekkid>some help from Zeyphrys and Dalestan :)
18:16<DJ-Nekkid>hehe
18:16<DJ-Nekkid>ment for something else, and i modded it to suit my needs
18:16<DJ-Nekkid>hehe
18:16<DJ-Nekkid>and i tried to read the documentation, apparently it worked
18:17<DJ-Nekkid>hehe
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>For 81/82, the lowest byte of the value is accessed
18:18<Gonozal_VIII>so you read the lowest byte of some general variable...
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18:19<DJ-Nekkid>probably something like that
18:20<DJ-Nekkid>as long as it works am i happy, and then i might actually understand it at one time :)
18:20<Gonozal_VIII>Position in consist and length of consist
18:20<Gonozal_VIII>and that's the var...
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18:22<Gonozal_VIII>40 00 should be the engine then
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18:22<Gonozal_VIII>no that's varadjust thingy
18:22<DJ-Nekkid>oh damnit
18:23<DJ-Nekkid>it works if i have 5 wagons
18:23<DJ-Nekkid>*bang head into something*
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18:23<Gonozal_VIII>ff would be the var then i guess... so wagon number 255
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18:23<DJ-Nekkid>FF is counted from the front
18:23<DJ-Nekkid>and BB from the back
18:24<DJ-Nekkid>so the first after (or before) the engine
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18:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12062 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp:
18:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: possible deadlock when there are no houses available to build at given tile
18:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: houses with zero probability could be built
18:24<Gonozal_VIII>house deadlock O_o
18:25<Sacro>that requires mutual exclusion
18:25<Sacro>or a lack of
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18:25<DJ-Nekkid>i thought i did that
18:25<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 B3 81 40 00 BB 01 B2 00 01 01 B0 00
18:25<DJ-Nekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 B4 81 40 00 FF 01 B1 00 01 01 B3 00
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18:26<Gonozal_VIII>why are there no chains to action as?
18:27<DJ-Nekkid>..??
18:27<Gonozal_VIII>replace original graphics based on vars
18:28<DJ-Nekkid>because that takes up an vehID ?
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18:28<Gonozal_VIII>32 bit veh ids :-)
18:29<SmatZ>Gonozal_VIII Sacro houses were randomly tested, but no test was done if any of these can be built... maybe deadlock is better known from threading stuff
18:29<Sacro>SmatZ: /me houses?
18:29<SmatZ>Sacro: /me ?
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18:58<+michi_cc>New version: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=662442#p662442
18:58<+michi_cc>And good night with that, I'm turnng in.
18:58<Gonozal_VIII>yay new version
18:58<Gonozal_VIII>good night
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19:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12063 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: use C++ indenting and variable scope/declaration in BuildTownHouse()
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm using that pbs is not easy
19:34<Gonozal_VIII>but it's easy to create deadlocks and crashs :-)
19:35<SmatZ>that's an advantage :)
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19:36<Sacro>w00t
19:36<Sacro>crashes!
19:36<SmatZ>Sacro: how? clean trunk?
19:37<Sacro>SmatZ: no, pbs :p
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>too many signals... deadlock
19:37<SmatZ>Sacro: then it's ok :)
19:37<Gonozal_VIII>not enough signals... fireball^^
19:37<Sacro>:D
19:37<Sacro>Brianetta will recall my 8 train pileup
19:38<Sacro>http://tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=41247
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19:39<Gonozal_VIII>stupid disconnects
19:41<Gonozal_VIII>as far as i can tell the patch works like intended
19:43<Sacro>so does your mum
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19:59<Sacro>michi_cc: neither of your diffs work
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
19:59<+glx>if it works for Gonozal_VIII, it should work for you Sacro
19:59<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't work with tortoise
19:59<Sacro>glx: he didn't do it from svn root for a start
20:00<Sacro>looks like he used it in src/
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>works from source
20:00*Sacro could do with a binary
20:00<Sacro>or to switch to linux
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>cd C:\OpenTTD\test\source
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>patch -p1 < C:\OpenTTD\test\yapp_r12062_v3.patch
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>i did that :-)
20:01<Gonozal_VIII>but i made a patch with tortoise afterwards out of the result, should i upload that?
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20:07<Sacro>meh
20:07<Sacro>will it compile in VS2005
20:08<Gonozal_VIII>no idea... compiles fine with mingw, first version didn't
20:16<DaleStan>DJ-Nekkid: I still don't understand why you're anding the low byte of var 40 with 0xBB.
20:16<+glx>I think he doesn't know what he's doing
20:16<SmatZ>:D
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20:17<DaleStan>Well, I figured that, but I'm hoping that question will make him notice that he's not doing what he thinks he's doing.
20:18<+glx>I don't even know if he read the docs
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23:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12064 /trunk/src/ (bridge.h newgrf.cpp table/bridge_land.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange : Give grf bridges their own ResetBridges function, and put bridge spec in table/bridge_land.h, where it should be.
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23:59<@Belugas>frag...
23:59<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm?
---Logclosed Tue Feb 05 00:00:05 2008