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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-02-14

---Logopened Thu Feb 14 00:00:12 2008
---Daychanged Thu Feb 14 2008
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01:33<Gonozal_VIII>happy fun time
01:33<Gonozal_VIII>new version: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36127
01:33<Gonozal_VIII>^^
01:34<Forked>compiling :)
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02:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12137 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Fix [FS#1769]: Show cargo capacity for articulated vehicles correctly in the purchase list. Multiple cargo types can also now been shown.
02:26<Gonozal_VIII>oh, nice
02:26<Gonozal_VIII>how do you get multiple cargo types in an articulated vehicle?
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02:32<Eddi|zuHause3>like a plane that carries passengers and mail?
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02:52<Gonozal_VIII>!logs
02:52<Gonozal_VIII>@logs
02:52<Gonozal_VIII>teh dauns!
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04:14<Gonozal_VIII>nobody here anymore?
04:15<Forked>where?
04:15<Gonozal_VIII>well... you were the last one that wrote something here
04:15<Gonozal_VIII>three hours ago..
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04:16<Forked>thats a lie.. eddie stopped by
04:16<Forked>:p
04:17<Gonozal_VIII>he did? nothing in the logs
04:17<Forked>at 8:32:01 my time .. 3 minutes after you quit =p .. 3 minutes before you came back
04:18<Gonozal_VIII>i disconnect all the time, you have to be more specific there^^
04:18<Forked>I said quit, not time out =p
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04:19<Gonozal_VIII>there's a peter
04:19<@peter1138>There is!
04:19<Gonozal_VIII>i say hi to the peter
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04:29<@peter1138>Well, hello!
04:30<ln->hi, thex.
04:30<Gonozal_VIII>hi ln
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04:36<SmatZ>hello
04:36<Gonozal_VIII>hi
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05:19-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta3 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory
05:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12138 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not allow adding tram to rail-road crossing when there is a vehicle on it
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05:43<Gonozal>did you use that iscrossingbarred thingy for that smatz?
05:45<@peter1138>A barred crossing does not necessarily have a vehicle on it.
05:45<@peter1138>Nor is it barred if a vehicle is crossing it.
05:45<Gonozal>ah, you could build on it with rvs on?
05:45<SmatZ>yes
05:46<Gonozal>i thought only trains were not checked
05:51<Gonozal>btw there's a goto
05:51<SmatZ>yeah, there is
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05:52<Gonozal>gotos attract raptors
05:52<@peter1138>We will attack them with our hogweed hairs.
05:54<Noldo>$ grep goto * |wc -l
05:54<Noldo>172
05:54<Gonozal>oh noes
05:54<Gonozal>that's more than 171!
05:55<Noldo>some are in the comments thought :)
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06:21<Roujin>g'day
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06:29<Gonozal_VIII>hi roujin
06:29-!-White_Rabbit [whiterabbi@cpc1-oxfd8-0-0-cust590.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
06:29<Gonozal_VIII>(disconnecting all the time, logs and so on...)
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06:34<White_Rabbit>I'm getting the New Haven livery in all climates, instead of Rio Grande/Santa Fe liveries in sub-arctic/tropical, for the PA-1 loco (US set) in r12124 and r12133 but not r12114, where climate-based liveries work as they should
06:34<White_Rabbit>is this a bug?
06:35<Gonozal_VIII>what about 12138?
06:38<@peter1138>Could be r12124 then...
06:38<Gonozal_VIII>ooor what about 12123? 12124 changed stuff about newgrf action 2 stuff
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06:54<@peter1138>I can't see anything obviously wrong with it.
06:55<@peter1138>Oh, yes I can :)
06:55<@peter1138>+ if (GetGlobalVariable(variable, &value)) return variable;
06:55<@peter1138>should be
06:55<@peter1138>+ if (GetGlobalVariable(variable, &value)) return value;
06:56<SmatZ>nice
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06:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12139 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Fix (r12124): The global variable value should be returned, not the variable.
06:59<Noldo>:)
06:59<Gonozal_VIII>yay for fast bugfix
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07:17<Gonozal_VIII>ERROR: Can't connect to GRFCrawler Database
07:18<Gonozal_VIII>and nobody's writing on the forum or here, that's boring
07:18<Gonozal_VIII>write stuff!
07:19<Forked>do my job and I'll write stuff..
07:19<Forked>:)
07:19<Gonozal_VIII>internet thingy?
07:21<Gonozal_VIII>anybody got some nice patches lying around waiting to be included in my patchpack?^^
07:25<Tekky>hehe, the most important one, YAPP, is already included :) Thx...
07:26<Gonozal_VIII>i hope that one still works correctly after the changes i had to make today^^
07:26<Gonozal_VIII>had to change that one the most
07:26<Tekky>oh... :(
07:26<Gonozal_VIII>well, it did work in my testing...
07:26<Gonozal_VIII>but you never know with changing stuff^^
07:26<Tekky>:)
07:27<Tekky>michi_cc told me that he wanted to release a new version of YAPP by today. So I guess you will have to do all this changes again, then :)
07:28<Gonozal_VIII>not really, most of the changes were to keep up with the trunk changes...
07:28<Gonozal_VIII>he will have to do that too
07:28<Tekky>and michi_cc said he made many little changes, so you will have to compensate for them :)
07:28<Tekky>ah, I see.
07:28<Gonozal_VIII>i'll just use his new version :-)
07:29<Gonozal_VIII>i update and keep all patches seperated so i can just exchange/add/remove them
07:29<Tekky>let's hope his new version doesn't crash, because then your new version will also crash :)
07:30<Gonozal_VIII>the merging part is quite easy
07:30<Gonozal_VIII>updating, compiling, testing... that takes time
07:33-!-dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable147.26-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
07:33<dragonhorseboy>hey
07:33<Gonozal_VIII>hi
07:35<dragonhorseboy>how're you?
07:35<Gonozal_VIII>well i'm ok... thanks... you?
07:36<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII, are you bothering with trying to keep version compatibility between versions?
07:36<@peter1138>(Personally I wouldn't bother)
07:36<dragonhorseboy>doing ok for now me think
07:36<Gonozal_VIII>no i'm trying to keep it able to load current trunk...
07:36<@peter1138>*nod*
07:37<@peter1138>Best plan really.
07:38<Gonozal_VIII>didn't understand that savegame version number thingy next to the settings, they explained it to me in my topic, now i did it that way :-)
07:40<Gonozal_VIII>got to go, i'll be back later in the afternoon
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10:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12140 /trunk/src/ (spritecache.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: A bit of code style fixes(Geektoo).
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10:26<dragonhorseboy>anyone here played Jim Power's Scenarios&Games?
10:26<dragonhorseboy>just curious :p
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10:45<White_Rabbit>dragonhorseboy, I've played a few of them
10:45<White_Rabbit>Mid Central Rails, Western Pacific Rails, Virginia Rails, and North Eastern Rails
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10:47<dragonhorseboy>white_rabbit heh nice
10:47<dragonhorseboy>me only just now thinking of trying one of them...the last one re brazil :p
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10:51<dragonhorseboy>white_rabbit just curious tho...
10:51<dragonhorseboy>do you often get errors about custom grfs when loading his scenarios?
10:53<White_Rabbit>I do now, but OTTD used to not load the newGRF settings of scenarios and savegames, and instead use that of openttd.cfg, so I wouldn't get any errors
10:53<dragonhorseboy>was wondering about that one..thanks anyhow
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10:56<dragonhorseboy>starting in 1935 with MB's ships and trains is sure interesting
10:56<dragonhorseboy>freights are literally drags hehe (69km/h for two coal ones now if you would)
10:56<dragonhorseboy>might have to see about trying the BR 01 for early express passengers when I can get $
10:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12141 /trunk/src/ (16 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Introduce IsNormalRoad[Tile](), IsRoadDepot[Tile]() and HasTileRoadType(); and use them.
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11:00<dragonhorseboy>say white_rabbit just had to ask but which train(set(s)) do you like? ^_^
11:01<hylje>train(set)(s)
11:01<dragonhorseboy>hylje...heh thanks wasn't sure how to bracket that one ^_^
11:01<dragonhorseboy>btw how're you?
11:01<hylje>why, i'm fine
11:01<White_Rabbit>US Set, UKRS and US Set
11:02<hylje>going to try tackling a problem unfamiliar to me
11:02<dragonhorseboy>hylje...what kind if you mind me asking?
11:02<hylje>software development
11:02<hylje>deadlock, more precisely
11:04<dragonhorseboy>white_rabbit ah..I still remember playing with the earlier (now to think about it, I liked that one better than the current one) ukrs but anyway now settling on dbsetxl for temperate, unsure on arctic (MB arctic, NSB, or arctic-only NARS?), and tropical hmm can't tell - working on a little surprise myself :p
11:05<dragonhorseboy>don't ask me why but I'm not 100% fond of the 'limit on mixing engines' in newer ukrs
11:06<White_Rabbit>mixing?
11:06<dragonhorseboy>still liked the times I was adding small steam or diesel on front of the earlier dmus to make them giddyup the slopes a lot better due to just a bit more traction :p
11:07<dragonhorseboy>eg 110km/h kneeling down to 30-40km/h on its own but storming close to 110km/h easily with a 2-6-4T on head
11:08<dragonhorseboy>talk about just a bit more traction *rolls eyes*
11:08<dragonhorseboy>(and thats with only a single unpowered coach used...talk about uk hps)
11:09<dragonhorseboy>to our own ok? ;)
11:10<White_Rabbit>I don't recall the UKRS having any such restrictions. I thought you could basically attach anything to anything
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11:13<dragonhorseboy>white_rabbit the newer ukrs does have restrictions
11:13<dragonhorseboy>even no dmu/emu mixing neither (AM2+AM10? nope can't do that even if same mph!)
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11:14<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know british engines that well, but i don't think a 1'C2' qualifies for a "small" engine ;)
11:14<dragonhorseboy>so hmm well yeah I haven't used ukrs for a long time
11:15<dragonhorseboy>eddi....well most bunk are small to me (except in case of certain DB/DR ones .. they even have bunk mallets too... 8+8 drive axles)
11:15<dragonhorseboy>and tiny..... basically just almost any 0-4-0T/ST's :p (especially dockside/quarry ones)
11:15<dragonhorseboy>hehe
11:15<Eddi|zuHause3>what is a "bunk"?
11:16<dragonhorseboy>hm..wait..sorry I think I meant bunker
11:16<dragonhorseboy>(as the other mode other than tenders)
11:17<Eddi|zuHause3>in germany, engines are named "Tenderlok" if they have them built in
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>others have a "Schlepptender"
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>most of the express passenger engines were of the second kind
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>http://www.alfons-schuerhaus.de/loks01_19.html
11:18<dragonhorseboy>schlepptender hm didn't know of that one *writes down*
11:19<dragonhorseboy>heh btw re that link of yours eddi - I always had something for liking the BR 05 in its full red glory (even in dbsetxl I use it at times too)
11:20<dragonhorseboy>still wishing the maerklin model wasn't so expensive on market yet -_- (I do have a express 4-6-0 w/3-axle tender for now tho, got that one quite cheap but it runs well)
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11:22<Eddi|zuHause3>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel-Wegmann-Zug <- one of the very few express engines that did not carry an extra tender
11:23<dragonhorseboy>eddi if you hadn't known of this one before it might interest you? http://www.dbtrains.com/en/ (btw I always thought that a tenderless locomotive being fully streamlined and running in express service always sound strange to me but I guess it worked for them before
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11:28<Eddi|zuHause3>well the calculation was that they could save a lot of time by not having to turn around the engine, so they made it equally fast in both directions, and instead carry only enough coal and water for a single run, and refill in both stations
11:28<Eddi|zuHause3>(Berlin and Dresden)
11:28<Eddi|zuHause3>you can't run a "Schlepptenderlok" backwards on high speed
11:29<dragonhorseboy>hmm never thought of that
11:30<dragonhorseboy>re running backward..I still remember a particular photo someone showed me from uk before
11:30<dragonhorseboy>it was one of the electric hst running its train with what seem to be the rear unit relocated to the front (nose facing train) .. probably the front unit failed somewhere earlier on
11:30<dragonhorseboy>like as if that ever happened that much at all..making an unique photo
11:31<Eddi|zuHause3>BR 01 typically ran 130km/h forwards and 40km/h backwards
11:31<dragonhorseboy>eddi just a dumb question but did any of the BR express engines ever doublehead or that was only in case of rare breakdown?
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11:32<Eddi|zuHause3>all engines are "BR" ;)
11:32<dragonhorseboy>heh sorry I meant any DB express steam
11:32<dragonhorseboy>:">
11:32<dragonhorseboy>:p
11:32<Eddi|zuHause3>"Baureihe" being roughly translated by "Class"
11:33<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, i don't remember seeing any express train double headed, but on steep lines, they typically got a helper engine pushing
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11:35<dragonhorseboy>yeah ok thanks
11:37<dragonhorseboy>in usa...well yeah banking wasn't too unheard of but in the 'super power' (eg Niagara class 4-8-4's) most top express trains already were powerful enough on their own
11:38<dragonhorseboy>eg 1.7% with twelve heavyweight cars = easy job with a good crew
11:39<@peter1138>engine geeks :o
11:39<dragonhorseboy>peter.....hehehehe
11:39<dragonhorseboy>eddi did steam sometimes bank diesel trains or that didn't even happen much over there?
11:39<Sacro>dragonhorseboy: yes, the 91 can run flat end first
11:40<Sacro>ugly bugger though
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause3>dragonhorseboy: only as helper engines, but the steep lines got electrified the first, so those were more often...
11:41<dragonhorseboy>in usa...well...Santa Fe often used their still-good-going 4-8-4's to assist (even sometimes the The Cheif and other famous trains hauled by diesel)
11:43<dragonhorseboy>re steep line .. there were several that had their electrification killed when diesels appeared because these didn't have any problems with exhaust + tunnels unlike steam
11:44<dragonhorseboy>but there was one exception tho..one coal railroad relaid a smoother line and guess what, they ordered the last batch of new steam rather than diesels even although this was mid-50's
11:44<dragonhorseboy>steam die-in-wool I guess heh
11:46<dragonhorseboy>oh yeah re electric..I always liked these crocodiles (swiss's first..but german's is nice too)
11:46<dragonhorseboy>think swiss still keeps one active for tourist/special trains
11:46<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, those are the second most known after the 103 ;)
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11:50<White_Rabbit>anyone feel like getting a multiplayer game going? any climate, but not too big a map
11:52-!-nappe1afk [ohj8laka@adsl-215-240-136.kymp.net] has joined #openttd
11:52<dragonhorseboy>or here's an unique one that was only on one railroad: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0103/mile21.jpg (EP-4 class...called 'bi-polar' for some reason)
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11:52<dragonhorseboy>white_rabbit...hmm...wish I could offer but I'm going soon :/ maybe another time
11:52<Eddi|zuHause3>it looks weird...
11:52<White_Rabbit>isn't that the Little Joe?
11:53<dragonhorseboy>yeah that too
11:54<dragonhorseboy>or how about diesel-hydraulic on mainline?
11:54<dragonhorseboy>sure DB had their V200 etc but usa ... only one I even know of so far was D&RGW and SP's (although D&RGW sold theirs to SP, didn't like)
11:54<dragonhorseboy>let me recall where photos were
11:56<dragonhorseboy>http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/km_photos/9014_sp-ml4000-john_rosser.jpg and yes they do look strange but don't ask me (plus they're noticeable taller than any conventional geep/SD diesel units too)
11:56<dragonhorseboy>they eventually found out there wasn't much saving in diesel-hydraulic over conventional so that explains there being only one small class made then all scrapped eventually
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12:01<dragonhorseboy>and if you're not tired yet heh here's a comparasion of size (thats an EMD F unit behind it) http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/km_photos/9004_sp-ml4000-john_rosser.jpg
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12:03<Eddi|zuHause3>all these abbreviations tell me exactly nothing...
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12:05*Belugas has blurry eyes... remote desktop over vnc :S
12:05<@Belugas>mouse is ridiculously slow
12:06<@peter1138>Is it home time yet?
12:06<@Belugas>nope
12:06<@peter1138>Crap :(
12:06<@Belugas>work@work
12:06*Belugas nods
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12:21<remaxim>hi
12:21<remaxim>ping Belugas
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12:43<@Belugas>not too patient... :(
12:44<murray>patients are often sick :(
12:44<@Belugas>hehe
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13:45<Wolf01>hello
13:45<Gonozal_VIII>hi
13:46<@peter1138>Hi
13:51-!-Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
13:52<Yorick>hello
13:54<@Belugas>join the club...
13:54<@Belugas>Hello :D
13:54<HMage>hello
13:55<HMage>:D
13:56<@peter1138>Hello :D
13:56<murray>hello!
13:57<@peter1138>@openttd bugs
13:57<@peter1138>Oh, still not here.
13:57<Sacro>hello!
13:57<SpComb>@peter1138 bugs
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13:58<Prof_Frink>@yourbotissilly
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13:58<SpComb>@yourmum
13:59<Prof_Frink>@mosphere
13:59<HMage>@hello
13:59<White_Rabbit>bye
13:59-!-White_Rabbit [whiterabbi@cpc1-oxfd8-0-0-cust590.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit []
14:01<Prof_Frink>@-@walker
14:02<HMage>@-@-@ <- genetically experimented frog
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14:03<@Belugas>@hack
14:03<@Belugas>words of a soldier :S
14:03-!-nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:03<@Belugas>@ttention
14:03<@Belugas>a schoolmaster
14:04<Prof_Frink>@tenborough, a guy on TV
14:05<HMage>@@@@@ <- guy in panic
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14:08<Andel>@aboy <- what I say to my dog
14:08-!-fjb [~frank@p5485C9B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:08<fjb>Hello
14:08<Andel>welcome
14:09<Andel>we offer sex
14:09<Andel>lots of it
14:09<Andel>may I show you my best girl
14:09<Andel>Sacro
14:09<Prof_Frink>@, Astatine
14:09<fjb>Sacro is your best girl?
14:09<Andel>she is
14:09<fjb>Poor Andel...
14:10<Andel>I have a poor crop, I know
14:10<@Belugas>hey... we offer crop too!
14:10<Andel>ooo yes
14:10<Andel>Prof_Frink: fetch my crop
14:10<@Belugas>or crap??
14:10<Andel>and my riding jodphurs too
14:11<@Belugas>or crisp?
14:11*fjb thinks is was crap.
14:11<Prof_Frink>...@.... - Nethack
14:11<Andel>and I shall beat someone
14:11<Sacro>:(
14:11<Andel>@7 <- dinner time
14:12<fjb>Sounds more like breakfast time.
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14:13<@peter1138>!wank
14:13*Andel masturbates to ejaculation over peter1138
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14:15<Wolf01>there are children here!
14:15<Andel>they can't join in then!
14:15<Gonozal_VIII>children? where?
14:16<Andel>Gonozal_VIII: not in public
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>children taste goody :-)
14:16<@peter1138>They're the ones looking up porn on the internet.
14:16<HMage>let's put some porn into openttd, that'll increase popularity
14:16<fjb>Give them LV4 then.
14:16<Prof_Frink>HMage: It's been done
14:16<@peter1138>Yes, George already did...
14:16<HMage>really?
14:16<Gonozal_VIII>yep
14:16<Wolf01>long vehicles
14:17<HMage>didn't know
14:17<Gonozal_VIII>how did you think he got them that long?
14:18<Wolf01>about OTTD, where is the nightlies page gone? is white for me ò_O
14:18<Gonozal_VIII>whitely
14:18<Phantasm>Copy&paste would be neat. With rotation possibility as well.
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>well... then use the copy&paste patch
14:19<Phantasm>Oh there is one.
14:19*fjb thinks that copy & paste is boring.
14:19<Gonozal_VIII>12134 version in my patchpack post
14:20<SpComb>copy&paste in OpenTTD would be one thing that I'd be careful to never use
14:21<Gonozal_VIII>naah it's nice
14:22*SpComb is vhemenently opposed to it
14:22<SpComb>+e
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14:23<Gonozal_VIII>imagine you're building a nice crossing/station/whatever and then you notice that you have to move it a tile to the left/right whatever to fit...
14:24<fjb>Think first, build then.
14:25<Wolf01>why some people shouldn't enjoy a feature because some people don't want to use it? just let the first group of players to use it and the second group of players should play like the feature is not there
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14:26<Gonozal_VIII>yep
14:26<SpComb>indeed, I'm not meaning to saying you shouldn't implement it, just saying that I'd never use it
14:26<Gonozal_VIII>there's always the option to just not use it
14:27<fjb>It could easily lead to a copy & paste race in multiplayer games.
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>nope
14:27<Gonozal_VIII>there's a delay for that
14:29<Wolf01>disable it in multiplayer
14:29<Wolf01>like the purchase an area of land
14:29<Gonozal_VIII>that's possible too with the patch
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14:30<Wolf01>i made that patch, it was rejected because it allowed to block opponents more quicly, so i modified it to not work on multiplayer, but it was rejected too
14:32<Wolf01>but now that is an inseparable part of the eyecandy patch (oh, Frostregen, what about that patch?)
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>i made a patch that draws terrain sprites below player owned land :-) grass, snow, desert and such
14:33<Wolf01>that does it too
14:33<Gonozal_VIII>below all unmovables...
14:33<Wolf01>and allow to change the little sign to whatever you want
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>i know the eyecandy patch;-)
14:34<Wolf01>http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/02/huge-off-highway-road-trains.html <- a thing i really want to see on OTTD :Q___
14:35<Yorick>go code a newgrf that contains them
14:35<Yorick>dunno if roadvehicles are still limited to 3 parts...
14:35<Gonozal_VIII>shouldn't be too hard
14:36<Gonozal_VIII>the parts are all the same
14:36<hylje>that doesn't look like something that'd run on roads
14:38<Gonozal_VIII>could run on one way roads, using both lanes^^
14:39<hylje>more like landscape
14:40<Yorick>we don't have one-way landscape...
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14:48<fjb>We have no-way landscapes.
14:48<Gonozal_VIII>we have?
14:49<Gonozal_VIII>like every landscape?
14:49<fjb>Stupid ai still keep raising mountains around every town and industry.
14:49<Gonozal_VIII>hehe
14:50<@peter1138>Yorick, were they ever limited to three parts?
14:51<hylje>quad-articulated trams here
14:55<Yorick>maybe to 4
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15:21<remaxim>hi Belugas
15:22<@Belugas>there
15:31<Yorick>I am missing something...
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15:47<Wolf01>http://www.brothers-brick.com/2008/02/10/dave-lartigue-discovers-a-mega-blok-in-his-lego-collection/ LOOOOOOL
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15:49<dragonhorseboy>hey ;)
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16:01<dragonhorseboy>sure is quiet here
16:02<dragonhorseboy>wondering where white is now too now that I think about it (re openttd game request)
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16:10<Phantasm>Is there any way to make it so there is no way whatsoever for a train to pass a station without stopping to it?
16:11<De_Ghost>no?
16:11<+glx>ttdp non stop handling
16:11<Phantasm>Having problems with trains going past station without stopping it, going to depot for maintenenace and then going backward the track over to the station.
16:11<De_Ghost>have depots on borth sides :)
16:11<Phantasm>De_Ghost: I don't want to.
16:11<Phantasm>I want to priorize the transporting speed.
16:12<Phantasm>As going to depot would make the transportation time like 4x the normal.
16:12<Phantasm>glx: So, it will forbid the train from going to depot at all?
16:12<De_Ghost>ttdp is tts patch?
16:12<De_Ghost>ttd*
16:12<De_Ghost>i think
16:12<guru3>http://guru3.net/temp/landgen.gif
16:13<Phantasm>In this case that would work, but in general case that is not really an option.
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>use a service at order
16:13<+glx>with it on (or off, I can't remember) trains only stop in stations in the order list
16:13<Phantasm>It would be obvious normal behaviour for trains to stop on station they have on their route before going to depot for normal maintenance.
16:13<Gonozal_VIII>use a service at order
16:14<Phantasm>Can't. I have 20 depots from which it has to pick one based on the track it is using.
16:14<Gonozal_VIII>no random depot servicing then, will service only if that order is active
16:14<Phantasm>I suppose I just have to remove those depots and keep them only at just before loading.
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>use service at order :P
16:15<Phantasm>Can't!
16:15<@peter1138>guru3, apropos?
16:15<HMage>http://warnet.ws/img3/150/det/18.jpg LOL
16:15<Phantasm>There is no way to order them to go to 'any one of list of 20 depots'.
16:15<Gonozal_VIII>group them, share orderize them, give each group service at order for one of those 20 depots
16:16<guru3>peter1138: it just looks cool i guess
16:16<Phantasm>Gonozal_VIII: One won't do, as it must be able to go to any one of those 20 or it will not work.
16:16<@peter1138>Damn, not a new landscape generator then ;(
16:16<Gonozal_VIII>hmm or give them service at orders for all 20 depots
16:16<Phantasm>Won't work.
16:16<Gonozal_VIII>why not?
16:16<Phantasm>They would want to go to all of them and not just at one.
16:17<Gonozal_VIII>why? service interval 10 days?
16:17<guru3>peter1138: i didn't know openttd was looking for one
16:17<guru3>it's not terribly complex
16:17<Phantasm>It is a route with 1 track (both ways) and 20 tracks worth stations at ends.
16:17<@peter1138>You can never have enough landscape generators...
16:17<Phantasm>And depots are on the tracks next to stations.
16:17<Gonozal_VIII>service at order for every depot :-)
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>it will use the next depot when it needs servicing
16:18<guru3>mmm
16:18*guru3 ponders
16:18<Gonozal_VIII>it will skip the orders if it doesn't need servicing
16:18<Phantasm>Have to test that one out.
16:18<Phantasm>Will make a messy order list though.
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>playing with paxdest?
16:19<Phantasm>?
16:19<Gonozal_VIII>why else would you want a train to stop at 20 stations?
16:19<Phantasm>Single station with 20 tracks.
16:20<Phantasm>It will go to one of those 20 trakcs based on which one is free.
16:20<Gonozal_VIII>depot for every track? strange...
16:20<Phantasm>Yes.
16:20<Phantasm>How do you think I can get continnous flood of maglevs going on a single track if I had a depot on it?
16:21<Phantasm>16 m/s speed going to/from depot would kill the whole route.
16:21<Gonozal_VIII>long enough slowdown and acceleration lines
16:21<Phantasm>So the only options is to have the depots next to stations.
16:21<Phantasm>Gonozal_VIII: With 10 depots or so to allow for enough way.
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16:21<Phantasm>Easier to put them next to stations where the tracks are already separated.
16:22<Phantasm>How do I put such service order that will not force train to go to the depot at all times?
16:22<Phantasm>Ah service button.
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16:22<Phantasm>Ok, that could be arranged, but it is a hell of a lot of work to do on a case that should work by default.
16:22<Gonozal_VIII>mind that pathfinder doesn't look past the next order
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>give savegame to the gono
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>^^
16:23<Phantasm>Gonozal_VIII: It finds the depot behind the station and goes to it without stopping at station and thus it needs to go back to the station.
16:23<Gonozal_VIII>i know, automatic servicing
16:24<Gonozal_VIII>doesn't do that with service at order
16:24<Gonozal_VIII>savegame please :P
16:24<Phantasm>http://hack.fi/~ghost/testing.sav
16:25<Gonozal_VIII>ooooh bad thingy, bad
16:25<Phantasm>Btw, I'm disappointed at how little coal those coal mines produce. :/
16:26<Phantasm>As you see, the not stopping to station is totally ruining the performance at unloading station as well as the revenue is dropping.
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>those depots can't be there
16:26<Gonozal_VIII>no way
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16:27<Phantasm>Ok, sure the revenue drop is only some 4% or so, but still.. And performance will significantly matter once those ocal mines start producing more.
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16:27<Phantasm>I suppose I could do with just one depot on the whole circle.
16:27<Phantasm>One group of depots*
16:27<Phantasm>But still, it doesn't take away the problem of the idiotic behaviour.
16:28<Gonozal_VIII>service at :P
16:28<Phantasm>If I had put one way lights there it would have to go through all the circle to get unloading.
16:28*Belugas goes home
16:28<@Belugas>have a nice evening all
16:28<Phantasm>That doesn't fix the problem in game. It is a bypass for the problem, but the problems exists no matter what.
16:29<Phantasm>Great.. Crashed 2 trains removing depots. ;P
16:31<Phantasm>Anyway, as that savegame shows, a single track can haul pretty much anything.
16:31<Phantasm>57 coal mines.. ;P
16:32<Phantasm>Or well, 60 now. :)
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16:35<Phantasm>8688 tonns of coal per month.
16:38<Wolf01>'night
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17:05<Gonozal_VIII>hmmm does trunk assert if a roadvehicle drives over a crossing?
17:06<Gonozal_VIII>the bug seems to be in the part that draws oneway sprites... patches didn't change that
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17:07<@peter1138>oneway sprites... on a crossing?
17:07<Gonozal_VIII>it checks for that
17:07<Gonozal_VIII>if (road != ROAD_NONE) {
17:07<Gonozal_VIII>includes crossing
17:07<Gonozal_VIII>next line is DisallowedRoadDirections drd = GetDisallowedRoadDirections(ti->tile);
17:08<Gonozal_VIII>and GetDisallowedRoadDirections( asserts for normalroadbla
17:08<dragonhorseboy>*still wishes there was an openttd option for the same feature in ttdp....to have all *** engineers slow down at any road crossings :p
17:08<dragonhorseboy>heh but as if
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17:12<Phantasm>It sure is nasty to get ratio drop for the station from too much cargo waiting even when there are 10 trains constantly waiting for cargo (and not yet reserved full amount to be loaded).
17:12<Phantasm>Though with 80 coal mines that might have something to do with it. ;P
17:12<dragonhorseboy>whats the length of your trains?
17:12<Phantasm>40 (20 squares) with 3x2 engine.. So 1258 coal per train.
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>5 squares max now
17:13<Phantasm>The average amount of coal there is 300-400.. And it varies between 100-700.
17:13<Phantasm>Why 5 squares max?
17:13<dragonhorseboy>I think there's maybe the problem there
17:13<dragonhorseboy>1258 tonnes might be too much to wait for the entire amount at once
17:13<Gonozal_VIII>mammoth trains disabled
17:13<Phantasm>dragonhorseboy: It loads trains partly.
17:13<Phantasm>So it doesn't need full amount to load.
17:14<Phantasm>The problem is just that 80 coal mines produce too much coal in the interval the trains try to load coal.
17:15<@peter1138>Heh, that cargo goes up quickly :)
17:16<dragonhorseboy>what the blazing are you trying to do with 80 mines in first place tho? :p
17:16<@peter1138>this is one case where 'improved loading algo' isn't
17:16<Phantasm>A month is about 70 seconds.. So 10-15 Gg of coal a month means 140-215 Mg of coal a second.
17:17<Phantasm>peter1138: Yes, I am using improved loading algo.
17:17<Phantasm>Ok, now disabled it.
17:17<@peter1138>96% :D
17:17<@peter1138>97...
17:17<Phantasm>Now it is almsot always 0, but goes to 10-200 Mg at times.
17:17<dragonhorseboy>3 mines I could understand but not *80* 0_o
17:17<Phantasm>Now the rating is going up.
17:17<Phantasm>dragonhorseboy: ;P
17:18<@peter1138>nice arrangement of oil wells :p
17:19<dragonhorseboy>well meh most of my coal trains had always been like 100-450 tonnes of coal each only ^_^
17:19<dragonhorseboy>heh
17:20<Phantasm>;P
17:21<Phantasm>I'm starting to see a bottleneck on that single rail soon. ;P
17:21<Phantasm>Due to breakdowns.
17:21<dragonhorseboy>which of...whats the length of your express trains typically?
17:21<dragonhorseboy>phantasm....who's single rail?
17:23<dragonhorseboy>btw that train question above was to anyone in here ;)
17:23<Phantasm>I have 17 Gg of coal a month being hauled on single track.
17:23<Phantasm>(That is 17 000 tonns.)
17:24<Phantasm>My trains are typically 5, 7 or 10 squares long. 10 rarely.
17:24<Phantasm>Sometimes only 3 if the production is low.
17:25<dragonhorseboy>and passengers or you not into that phantasm?
17:25<Phantasm>With 1258 tonns of coal per train that is 13.5 trains a month.
17:25<Phantasm>dragonhorseboy: When I transport passengers (and mail) with train, same applies.
17:26<Phantasm>If it were to be less than 3 squares long, I wouldn't make a train for it.
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17:27<dragonhorseboy>^_^
17:27<dragonhorseboy>for me hmmm...
17:28<dragonhorseboy>usually engine+mail+coach+coach at minimum (or any dmu/emu with one mail car and optional coach) ... up to likely 3-4 mail cars and 10-14 coaches (unless as a mail train which in that case, no passengers can board sorry! :p )
17:28<dragonhorseboy>heh
17:29<dragonhorseboy>sometimes ending up with what appear to be just same BR103's on a particular route but with different generation mix of paintjobs sure sometimes look unusual ^_^
17:32<dragonhorseboy>think one time I was serving one network that had three different generation of BR103's beside some different red units ... heh... "station to dispatcher, clear the.....umm.....blue train through *hangs phone*"
17:32<Phantasm>Ok, 20 Gg is about the limit a single rail can handle (with 20 squares trains of 3 double magnel engines and 34 of 37 tonn coal wagons totalling 1258 tonns of coal per train.. That is with normal breakdowns.
17:32<fjb>dragonhorseboy: You can never build anything more colorful than the real DB mixed in their trains.
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17:33<dragonhorseboy>fjb..true and thats why I think I really like the dbsetxl and will be happy to upgrade as soon as I hear anything newer than the current 0.82 version someday :p
17:34<@peter1138>The mythical "next release"
17:34<dragonhorseboy>I sometimes have the smaller steamers and early electric boxcabs mingle with each others (same mainline and same speed limit due to freight cars themself) ^_^
17:34<fjb_>I'm expecting it not before next year.
17:35<dragonhorseboy>the steamers are still rather cheap for short trains that probably wouldn't earn much $ but could be useful while the electrics handle the heavy work usually
17:36<dragonhorseboy>eg moving 88 tonnes of grain about 16 tiles to a busy food processing plant for example [lot cheaper than a rv when I add up the running cost, go figure]
17:36<fjb_>Electric locomotives are cheaper to run than steam engines.
17:38<dragonhorseboy>fjb...well the BR75 is cheaper and runs cheaper than any of the reliable E-class' (mind you I do always have reduced breakdown difficulity setting so)
17:38<dragonhorseboy>I don't have a big number of these steamers tho
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17:42<dragonhorseboy>I do use these E94 (german crocodile) at times on long coal drags tho :p
17:43<dragonhorseboy>I never could quite understand (but still use them heh) these ET-87's .. strange thing with 2+1 axle coaches bracketting a little locomotive
17:43<fjb_>That's what they were build for.
17:43<fjb_>ET-87 is an early EMU.
17:45<dragonhorseboy>yeah but whats up with that boxcab-looking engine in middle anyway?
17:45<dragonhorseboy>and the odd 2+1 axles arrangement on the coaches too
17:45<dragonhorseboy>^_^
17:47<dragonhorseboy>at least if there's one favorite for express that I kinda have - its the VT11.5 (just...if that thing wasn't just a big doggy with multiply cars on slopes but can't fault it in-game I guess)
17:48<fjb_>ET-87 is described here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Baureihe_ET_87
17:49<@peter1138>nini
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17:52<dragonhorseboy>hmm don't understand german myself but nice site with some old photos of them
17:52<dragonhorseboy>http://www.zackenbahn.de/images/fahrzeuge/et87/et87_elt1005.jpg interesting..will have to see if the ET-87 in set lets me add a coach to it, never knew they could run like that
17:53<fjb_>You could use the babel fish to translate it.
17:53<fjb_>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr?lp=de_en&url=http%3A//de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Baureihe_ET_87
17:57<dragonhorseboy>remind me...what was the class for these red rail buses that often operated in powered+dummy pairs? (maerklin had a model of these for a long time too)
17:57<fjb_>795 and 798
17:58<dragonhorseboy>ah yeah
17:58<dragonhorseboy>btw I always wondered why the only ones I even know of seem to be from DB themself [again] but their few generations of battery railcars are rather interesting .. neverminding that MB has them in dbsetxl too :p
17:58<fjb_>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr?lp=de_en&url=http%3A//de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uerdinger_Schienenbus
17:59<fjb_>795 is in the DBsetXL
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17:59<nappe1>Gonozal_VIII: should I make .patch or .diff? :)
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18:00<Gonozal_VIII>that's the same ;-)
18:00<fjb>There were only few rail companies beside the DB at that time in Germany. DB had bought almost all of them.
18:01<dragonhorseboy>and now DB is wanting to buy EWS in uk wasn't it?
18:01<fjb>Sadly they are going that way.
18:02<dragonhorseboy><has a few 'europe: today's railways' issues here
18:02<dragonhorseboy>thats how I heard of that
18:03<fjb>But there are many railway companies in Germany today.
18:04<dragonhorseboy>there were so many in north america in the past ... now just a few major names aside to many local shortlines ^_^
18:06<fjb>There were many in the early years of railway in germany. Then the DR and later DB bought them all. And now we have many companies again.
18:06<fjb>DB AG still the biggest.
18:09<dragonhorseboy>which of...
18:09<dragonhorseboy>do you still have any of these old red&yellow (well not exactly yellow but I forgot what that was called again) s-bahn cars running?
18:09<Axamentia>Looks at british railways and cries ;(
18:10<Axamentia>Im not against DB taking over EWS wish theyd buy some of our passenger services and improve them
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18:11<Axamentia>Far more blooming effiecent that what weve had here since BR was privatised
18:12<fjb>Red and yellow sounds like Berlin. I don't think they are still using that old trains.
18:12<fjb>Passenger service of the DB AG is still ok. But they are not fully privatised yet.
18:14<dragonhorseboy>ah ok
18:15<Axamentia>Ttry using the train in the uk, its about as reliable and dependable as a used car salesman
18:16<Prof_Frink>Axamentia: Trains are mostly reliable, they're just expensive
18:16<dragonhorseboy>fjb well in one of the 2007 'todays railway' europe issue I got...there was one artist render of a new red commuter train and guess what was in the background on another two platforms in the station -- these old berlin sbahn cars :p
18:16<Prof_Frink>Of course, if there's a leaf on the line, it's a different story
18:17<dragonhorseboy>hmm let me see if I can find it..only have several issues anyhow
18:17<fjb>dragonhorseboy: Ok, then they are using them for historic reasons.
18:18<fjb>Tourists like old trains.
18:18<Axamentia>Prof frink: not in thhe northwest, but yes they are really overpriced
18:18<fjb>The Harzquerbahn is using almost only steam engines for that reason.
18:18<fjb>They used some diesel engines, but the tourists didn't like them.
18:19<dragonhorseboy>hmm here's something else...
18:20<dragonhorseboy>SWEG branch seem to have owned these old railbuses but they're not even red anymore (rather white bottom and yellow top)
18:20<Axamentia>i know there;'s a new passenger steam operation in manchester now
18:20<dragonhorseboy>anyway here we are...found it...
18:20<Axamentia>well its more of an atraction, but its operating out of a mainline station
18:21<dragonhorseboy>issue no 135 (march 2007) ... DB is to order 321 (odd number, don't look at me! heh) Talent 2 EMU's from Bombardier
18:22<dragonhorseboy>1.2 billion euro pricetag
18:22<fjb>Nice
18:23<dragonhorseboy>if anyone even have these issues..the small article mentions that the Talent 2's were describled in TR EU 132 (which if I go by math of, that would have to be december 2006)
18:24<dragonhorseboy>I don't tho ^_^
18:24<Prof_Frink>Axamentia: Well, it's your own silly fault for being Northern
18:25<Axamentia>Prof Frink: Im even worse im scottish, i just happen to live in manchester
18:25<Axamentia>lol
18:26<fjb>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr?lp=de_en&url=http%3A//de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harzquerbahn
18:32<fjb>Here are the historical Berlin trains: http://www.s-bahn-berlin.de/englisch/sonderzuege/index.htm
18:34<dragonhorseboy>yeah now I remember...
18:34<dragonhorseboy>its called 'cream'
18:34<dragonhorseboy>heh >_<
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18:34<dragonhorseboy>I sometimes forget because I've never heard of any cream paintjobs over here
18:34<Phantasm>Lev4 'Chimaera' (Electric) sure is way too weak. The power equals that of lev1 'Leviathan' (Electric)...
18:35<dragonhorseboy>phantasm..... -_-
18:35<guru3>http://electricpotential.net/temp/landgen.php
18:35<guru3>i have way too much free time :<
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18:36<fjb>Cream was often used in germany.
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18:37<fjb>guru3: You could implement it into OTTD.
18:37<guru3>peter also suggested that
18:37*guru3 is vaugely considering the idea
18:38<guru3>its just that my generator is a little short on logic
18:38<Phantasm>In fact it seems all dual length engines have half the power they would have in reality.
18:38<Phantasm>Comparing the speed and power to normal length engines that is.
18:38<dragonhorseboy>you sure it isn't a matter of the buy list eg showing 2000hp but when a train's made its really 2x2000?
18:38*dragonhorseboy is just checking
18:39<Phantasm>Yes it isn't that.
18:40<dragonhorseboy>hm ok
18:41<Phantasm>Somehow my train system is causing incorrect train is lost messages all the time.
18:41<Phantasm>Even though all the trains are traveling just as they are supposed to.
18:41<dragonhorseboy>heh
18:52<Tefad>Phantasm: it's probably because they take too long to get to their destination
18:52<Tefad>i think there's a patch setting for how long it takes a train to trigger the lost message
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18:55<dragonhorseboy>either way...just curious about another preference from others in here again --- do you even use waypoints?
18:56*fjb does.
18:56<Phantasm>My routes tend to have no possible wrong turns.
18:57<fjb>I'm sorting trains to different tracks or platforms.
19:07<dragonhorseboy>fjb how come if I may ask?
19:08<fjb>Slow trains to one track, fast trains to the other.
19:08<fjb>Or passenger trains to passenger platforms and freight trains to the freight platforms.
19:10<dragonhorseboy>why bother mixing them in first place anyhow?
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19:11<Axamentia>i use waypoints to split, traffic
19:11<Axamentia>i also use waypoint to assign platforms
19:11<Axamentia>Like at some stations where i have an express or through platform, and local or terminating platfroms
19:12<dragonhorseboy>meh
19:12<fjb>Building railways is expensive, so use them with as amny trains as possible.
19:12<dragonhorseboy>I just somewhat follow a KISS thing and have all platforms either end or through - no mixing ... and freights stay on their own lines unless they're at same top speed to mingle (sometimes even with a mixed train if the factory is right next to city)
19:13<dragonhorseboy>^_^
19:14<fjb>dragonhorseboy: Are you playing on flat land or in the montains?
19:14<fjb>mountains
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19:16<dragonhorseboy>fjb.... hilly with some waters
19:16<dragonhorseboy>thats what I always use
19:16<Axamentia>do you play big maps dragon?
19:17<dragonhorseboy>512x512 often (thats ttdp's fixed size too) and at times 2048x256 when I can get to the other computer for re openttd
19:19<+glx>512x512 is openttd only
19:20<Axamentia>ahh i usually play big maps but with openttd, but im a fan of making metro, local and express lines and have mixed traffic at stations
19:21<fjb>Mixed local and express passenger traffic is the only way to go with the passenger destinations patch.
19:21<dragonhorseboy>glx..huh...what was ttdp's size again?
19:21<dragonhorseboy><forgot now
19:21<+glx>256
19:21<dragonhorseboy>oh duh heh
19:22<Axamentia>fjb ive got to get round installing the Pax patch
19:22<Axamentia>I think gonzola did a patch group that intrested me Pax and PBS to off the features i really want
19:22<fjb>it is fun to play with it. The last version is quite stable.
19:22<dragonhorseboy>either way I don't like to destory nature too much (well trees ASIDE!) so explains why I have frequent single routes with the bout of directional ones there and there at times (but its rare that the two run parallel to each others except by coastline or on sections of flat land)
19:23<fjb>I did my own Pax + YAPP patch.
19:23<dragonhorseboy>so sometimes yeah one north-heading train could be far away from the south-heading train even although both have same platform ends in their orders
19:24<Axamentia>gotta look that up and install it
19:24<dragonhorseboy>or...there's also the case where one line was thrown on cheap on short $ (hugging around mountain too basically) then as traffic finally can get enough to want a second line... the second line is a dark tunnel straight underneath the very mountain in much shorter length
19:24<fjb>With YAPP bidirectinal single track lines become usefull.
19:24<Sacro>fjb: indeed they doe
19:24<dragonhorseboy>so eg the loaded train just blasts into tunnel fast and straight but the empties have to claw it hard up and around the peak back
19:25<Axamentia>fjb is there a built version? or am i going to have to compile myself?
19:25<Sacro>Axamentia: check the topic
19:25<dragonhorseboy>if anyone know what I'm saying anyhow
19:25<Axamentia>will do sacro
19:25<Sacro>you won't do sacro ><
19:26<Axamentia>lol
19:26<fjb>I compiled it myself. Don't know if there is a precompiled version.
19:26<fjb>dragonhorseboy: Yes.
19:26<dragonhorseboy>ty fjb
19:27<dragonhorseboy>fjb...tunnels always cost quite $ so sometimes the route stays like that for several years before I finally build the second tunnel and then just leave the old original rails to rust (no..seriously heh)
19:27<dragonhorseboy>usually de-signal it by then tho (aside to one single signal near either end as to not trip false red's)
19:28<dragonhorseboy>hm now that I think about it...I think one time one of my coal train was almost a headache from the start (and it was the first route too no less) hehe....
19:29<fjb>I'm building bidirectional single track or double track lines. Single track first, double track when there are more trains on that line.
19:32<Axamentia>You most of the time i tend to double track on lines construction, to save the pain of double tracking after
19:33<dragonhorseboy>many slopes...several tight snaking curves .. two deep bridges ... many foundations ... and it (oh boy) sure took three BR75 to battle 260 tonnes of coal over the freaking thing
19:33<fjb>Double tracking isn't that much pain when you are thinking about it when you lay the single track. But why building a single track when you know that you will nedd e second track beforehand.
19:33<dragonhorseboy>eventually the $ from first profit let me ease one critical curved slope a bit but otherwise still a battle
19:34<fjb>dragonhorseboy: Maybe you should electrify that line.
19:34<dragonhorseboy>eventually I was able to get it a bit more straightened out enough to decrease the train to 215 tonnes but only two BR75 needed (third one was stored in depot in case) ....
19:35<dragonhorseboy>fjb...would had gone over the $$ I had
19:35<dragonhorseboy>three BR75 costed half of what two E62 would had (neverminding the rails themself)
19:36<guru3>http://electricpotential.net/temp/landgen.php
19:36<guru3>BUILDINGS :D
19:36<dragonhorseboy>but anyway...the third BR75 eventually got joined by a new one as I had managed to stuff a second line through and was finally happy with two 215 tonnes from a busy coal mine supply :)
19:38<dragonhorseboy>eventually I was able to fix some of the route into being less difficult but still kept the trains as they were (but if the firemens were for real they'll had been glad..lot less backbreak shovelling on angled cab floors!)
19:38<fjb>You could use an E52 instead of 2 BR75.
19:38<dragonhorseboy>fjb..it would had taken two E62 to be able to haul the same
19:38<fjb>guru3: nice
19:39<guru3>once again proving i have too much free time
19:39<dragonhorseboy>and then yet the E62 are only 59km/h
19:40<fjb>BR75 is good until the E52 comes out two years later.
19:41<fjb>Nothing beats electric locomotives for heavy trains in the mountains.
19:42<dragonhorseboy>heh well when I was finally able to get out of the deep interests (4% on a huge loan) .. guess where I went?
19:44<fjb>Electrified?
19:45<dragonhorseboy>two single BR75 trains of grain&livestock mixed trains (single platform at farm) and one lone E62 for a small farm not far from factory anyhow (cheaper than rv still) .. and the goods train was...well...don't get a heart attack...
19:46-!-Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
19:49<dragonhorseboy>one BR75 with probably eight-ten 80km/h goods van on it .. to a nearby city on almost flat route
19:51<fjb>BR 75 is ok for short trains like that.
19:51<fjb>At least on a flat route.
19:51<dragonhorseboy>heh well having three BR75 was the only one single time I've ever done it .. out of "damn so little $ left already!" complication
19:53<dragonhorseboy>I eventually had the $ to fix up the original route a bit more and eventually retired six BR75's into one depot (near mine) to two BR144 as they seem reliable enough
19:53<fjb>Try 20 or more hoppers full of coal in the mountains...
19:53<dragonhorseboy>fjb... 260 tonnes *was* a lot of 15 tonnes low side wagons
19:53<fjb>BR 144 is very reliable.
19:53<dragonhorseboy>I still reused these old cars with the BR144 because that had my $ almost flatlined again :">
19:56<dragonhorseboy>eventually got around to rebuilding the train with smaller total capacity of gondola's and moved three BR75s in one run to the powerplant to temporately cross them over onto a new route for a 96 tonnes coal mine up another peak
19:56<dragonhorseboy>sold the other three off as wasn't going to need them anymore
19:57-!-Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
19:59<dragonhorseboy>fjb...and which of..after that coal battle and the small 2-farms business...I expanded into passengers mountain-style again (good grief, bloody map!) ...
20:01<fjb>Passengers are good for making lots of money.
20:01<dragonhorseboy>two BR 05's and they almost had it easy running 160km/h most of the times... except for really getting slapped by a 5-tiles slope right after a sharp curve (then a gentle right curve then down 2 tiles before being near city)
20:03<dragonhorseboy>nothing worser than wishing you could add helpers just on this one stretch..maybe either BR144 or if money permitted then BR194
20:03<dragonhorseboy>I'm sure these could had pushed the 05 up that one stretch easily....till I had the $ to make a long skirt after filling in some water
20:03<fjb>BR05 is not the best in the mountains. And it is only short living.
20:04<dragonhorseboy>fjb....yeah well I had a lot of almost-flat running for it otherwise..it was just this *one* stubborn section that was too expensive to try bypass yet
20:05<fjb>You should really try the E16.
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20:07<dragonhorseboy>eventually I had to add a third train for sake of station load .. and finally '57 I decided to just bite it a bit hard and I rebuilt a new line to bypass the difficult-located city for another one and this time the BR05 didn't have to sag down hard anymore
20:07<dragonhorseboy>(yes I did abandon the entire station and unused rails then planted some trees in place)
20:08<fjb>Hm, 1957 and you are still buying an old BR05?
20:09<dragonhorseboy>no...just changed the route to end at a different second city
20:09<dragonhorseboy>the third 05 was several years earlier
20:09<dragonhorseboy>(and I was able to add two more coaches to each trains with the much easier line finally heh)
20:10<fjb>Ah, ok, E10 comes out between 1956 an 1958.
20:10<fjb>And it beats the BR05 in any way.
20:10<dragonhorseboy>eventually made a different line (lot of tight snaking but little grade thankgod) that was served by VT-11's with four coaches each
20:11<dragonhorseboy>they kept 140km/h almost all the times except in one weird hard curve (blame a transmitter tower for one piece of it) where it dropped speed then suddenly hit one upslope altogether
20:11<fjb>VT-11 are nice when it is not too hilly.
20:11<dragonhorseboy>true that
20:11<fjb>But the E10 has a top speed of 160km/h.
20:11<fjb>And it has much more power and TE.
20:13<dragonhorseboy>the leftover BR75's by late 60's had finally been decided all total scrapped ... by BR144 thanks to dropping reliability and having the incomes to advance electrification for that reason
20:13<dragonhorseboy>E10?
20:14<dragonhorseboy>only see a ET11 otherwise nothing close to that in list
20:14<fjb>E10 = BR110
20:15<fjb>E = Elektro
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20:15<fjb>E got replaced by 1 when the DB got computers that could only handle numbers.
20:15<Eddi|zuHause3>the replacement E -> 1, V -> 2 was done in the late '60s
20:16<Eddi|zuHause3>and i think ET -> 4, VT -> 6
20:17<dragonhorseboy>oh...was leaving it alone due to reliability and the huge pricetag for quite a long time
20:17<fjb>E10 = BR110, E44 = BR144, E94 = BR194, V100 = BR212, V200 = BR 220.
20:17<dragonhorseboy>but I did eventually kill the BR05 at some point finally (they held reliability too well for too long..!)
20:18<Eddi|zuHause3>and the E10 has 150km/h
20:18<fjb>You can use the BR110 up to the year 2000.
20:19<fjb>Eddi|zuHause3: You are right, 150, not 160 as I wrote.
20:19<dragonhorseboy>was four BR110 (cities had grown by then) with slight longer trains .. but I kept the BR05s in the depot for no real reason
20:19<fjb>BR05 are getting useless and unreliable soon.
20:19<dragonhorseboy>fjb..well..they were still holding 80+% reliability when I finally quietly told them to unload their train at one city then head to depot
20:20<Eddi|zuHause3>the BR 05 is only nice when the track is completely free, it doesn't accelerate very fast
20:20<dragonhorseboy>40+ years of service that is
20:21<fjb>When the BR103 comes out you should really electrify your mainlines.
20:22<dragonhorseboy>I did eventually join all three together and send them to the other depot and reworked them on a new seperate line serving this city [was getting too fat for the four BR110 to empty out quickly enough] to another new town
20:24<dragonhorseboy>I did finally pull them out of service for complete good (as they were going to like 30-40% average reliability, ouch) several years later and parked all three into a little section of tracks at a different small town (couldn't just sell them off)
20:25<dragonhorseboy>renamed front one as "proudly did harsh service.." second one as "..for over 60 years.." and the last one as "..and finally laid to rest"
20:26<dragonhorseboy>some special 'park' that town got to keep for its entire life till I finally had enough with the map :p
20:27<dragonhorseboy>and yes I did eventually make an actual station (on other side of town from this 'park' tho) served by two ET-11 flipping back and forth
20:27<dragonhorseboy>heh imagine if the passengers were riding the ET-11 to this town all just to walk down the street to see the parked BR05's :p
20:30<dragonhorseboy>otherwise re all trains (of any type) I had eventually just done with a mix of BR110 and BR120's ... save these mix of ET-11 and VT-11 for smaller short express services
20:32<dragonhorseboy>and it kinda stayed that way for a long time till I poked with three long routes (originally multiply BR120's) being tested by transrapid 09's (service set to a tight 90 days, only 52-57% reliability meh)
20:33<dragonhorseboy>eventually any passenger BR's left over got replaced by ICE1
20:33<dragonhorseboy>and the rest..I slowly docked them to the BR182 as I could afford the total pricetag it finally came to
20:34<dragonhorseboy>eventually just several years of minor route corrections and consist balancing till 2050 and I stopped there
20:34<dragonhorseboy>hope you're still there fjb hehe
20:34<fjb>In the end only BR182, ICE 3 and the Blue Tiger are left.
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20:35<dragonhorseboy>well I had tried ICE3 but it seem to slow down a bit more rapidly so thats why I decided to just utilize the ICE1's instead as they could hold somewhat better rough average speed throughly
20:35<fjb>And there will not be more modern locomotives in DBsetXL 0.9.
20:36<fjb>But the ICE 3 becomes unreliable soon.
20:36<fjb>The ICE 1 I mean.
20:36<dragonhorseboy>talk about the ICE1 having twice traction of ICE3 (and hp? well...lets not bother arguing :p)
20:36<fjb>ICE 1 gets too unreliable after 2020.
20:37<dragonhorseboy>actually the ICE1 still could hold 70+% reliability into the 2050's and I wasn't sending them on any long routes so they could service somewhat frequently anyhow
20:38<fjb>Ok, you are using the reliabiloty at the easy level...
20:39<dragonhorseboy>the transrapid 09's? lets just say I eventually folded and just split the remaining three long routes to several shorter ones for the BR182 to handle themself
20:39<dragonhorseboy>they just kept blowing out too often (can you say black smoke?) between station halts X_X
20:39<dragonhorseboy>wasn't a bad experinment but a bit shortlived should we say
20:40<Phantasm>It is nonsense that reliability of old technology goes down. Sure maintenance costs might go up but there is no reason whatsoever for the technology to be any less reliable than it used to be.
20:40<dragonhorseboy>phantasm...heh well some engines get worn out quickly than others too .. there's the reliability decay thing ;)
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20:41<fjb>And try to get replacement parts...
20:41<dragonhorseboy>fjb....heh
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20:41<dragonhorseboy>I still couldn't believe what I did to these BR05's but go figure
20:41<dragonhorseboy>this was the only one time I got a map that was cursed with weird tall mountains all over it
20:42<dragonhorseboy>most maps I got were somewhat easy with just one or two big peaks but just rolling valleys everywhere else otherwise
20:42<Phantasm>dragonhorseboy: Of course the reliability of old engine goes worse, but a new engine of old technology should not have low reliability.
20:42<dragonhorseboy>phantasm...hm true on that
20:43<dragonhorseboy>I never could figure out how to use these V100's at all they always seem quite expensive early on then aren't much of use later on with the BR1xx classes well out
20:43<dragonhorseboy>but hm what do I really know
20:44<fjb>V100 are nice for short lines with low traffic.
20:44<Phantasm>fjb: That is why the maintenance costs might go higher later on.
20:44<fjb>They are cheap to run.
20:45<fjb>Phantasm: You just don't get any spare parts. You could try to hire peole to build single spare parts, but nobody does that. Only a museum might do that.
20:46<Phantasm>fjb: That is why the maintenance goes up. But buying a train when it is still being sold, you can expect to be able to run it reliably for its life.
20:46<dragonhorseboy>hm well I sometimes wondered about these VT-11.5's in real life
20:47<dragonhorseboy>the way they were for express but then got knocked down into local service
20:47<dragonhorseboy>but hm thats the way a lot of late era express steam ended up as in usa ... one year it was a long string of fresh heavyweights then next year its suddenly an easy old four branchline coaches on a quiet mainline
20:48*fjb has senn them in local service.
20:48<Phantasm>And there could also be some slider for maintenance cost versus reliability.
20:48<Phantasm>So, putting more money into maintenance would make the train be more reliable (for longer time).
20:49<Phantasm>On some routes, the break downs that occur with normal breakdowns can cause a lot of slowdown.
20:49<dragonhorseboy>phantasm...you know..
20:50<dragonhorseboy>that was what happened with one particular excursions-used steam locomotive..it ran several years before eventually it was sidelined for good due to being too worn out in many places .. eventually a fundraising battle finally got it fully repaired for good and back into service to today so far .. but who knows much about its life yet
20:53<Phantasm>It would also be good if setting 5% service interval was possible from the patch configuration.
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21:00<dragonhorseboy>either way this (I think..need to find box to check anyhow) is what I own here http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/img/grossansicht/3099.jpg :p
21:02<dragonhorseboy>there's a small 3-axle diesel shunter in darker green with a yellow strip thats chipped off in several places but its one of these old red&blue box for it - and I don't recall the # right now
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21:02<fjb>Ah, the famour prusiian P8, later BR38.
21:04<fjb>Green with yellow could be dutch or a private railway.
21:04<dragonhorseboy>heh I kinda liked the prussian green paintjob but the locomotives in this manner are rather priced a bit steep so meh
21:04<dragonhorseboy>same likewise for any BR 05 in red :p (I might be willing to trade the BR38 on it anyhow)
21:04<fjb>You could try to find older models at ebay.
21:04<dragonhorseboy>thats where I got these two engines ^_^
21:04<dragonhorseboy>but now well still waiting for another seller to decide to list something quite nice but yet cheap
21:05<dragonhorseboy>have a mixed list of several different wagons.. eg DR express dining car, two old tin 2-axle branchline coaches, random 2-axle freights, etc
21:05<fjb>I was lucky to get an BR216 last year. It is in a very good condition and was cheap. Somehow nobody wated it.
21:07<fjb>You know http://www.maerklin.de/de/produkte.html ?
21:09<dragonhorseboy>here's one anyhow http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330208598788 (but not sure about seller having all-caps shorty description tho)
21:09<dragonhorseboy>that kind of price is nice :p
21:10<dragonhorseboy>yeah I've used the english expanded search at times but it rarely lists old items (like these that comes in the red&blue boxes instead of the current white ones)
21:10<dragonhorseboy>so its not quite always useful to me ^_^
21:12<fjb>Be carefull if you can see all sides of the model. Some boxes have a plastic inlay which tends to wear out the color of the models.
21:13<fjb>The box of that electric shunter is also a modern white one.
21:13<fjb>You would have more luck on ebay.de
21:14<dragonhorseboy>this is the kind of 'yet cheap' I'm really talking about now hehe http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150214515674
21:15<dragonhorseboy>they just don't come around that much (re sub-$150 for large engines)
21:16<fjb>That BR01 is an really old model.
21:16<fjb>You should really start to learn german if you are into Märklin models.
21:17<fjb>The BR 01 is from the 70s.
21:18<dragonhorseboy>this is kinda a bit like what mine looks like http://www.station500.com/picture/trains/NH2007/37655.jpg (just not same colour and some exterior details)
21:23<Eddi|zuHause2>i have one of those: http://cgi.ebay.de/406-Diesellok-Piko-BR-118-142-9-DR-Reichsbahn-Lok_W0QQitemZ110221814355QQihZ001QQcategoryZ130309QQcmdZViewItem
21:24*fjb too.
21:24<fjb>Oh, I meant the V60.
21:24<dragonhorseboy>but either way I packed away the small set I had because I just can't keep reusing that old lionel ac transformer from father all the times but I yet have to find a 120v-origin (not the 240v, duh heh) marklin controller yet
21:25<dragonhorseboy>so hmm yeah some more cars (maybe a more uniform passenger train too heh) and a good transformer then I'm probably set
21:25<Eddi|zuHause2>but mine has a different number plate...
21:25<fjb>Märlin should have 120V transformers.
21:25<dragonhorseboy>hm nice
21:25<Eddi|zuHause2>mine has 118 177-1
21:25<dragonhorseboy>fjb...true..its just they're not easier to find
21:25<dragonhorseboy>there's one funny thing if you would tho...
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>my models are quite old
21:26<fjb>They are selling their models in the US, so there must be 120V transformers.
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>except an ICE 1 i have only pre "Change" models
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21:27<Eddi|zuHause2>http://berlin.kijiji.de/c-Kaufen-Verkaufen-Spielzeug-Modellbau-Modelleisenbahn-PIKO-Modellbahn-BR110-Diesellokomotive-DDR-025-4-W0QQAdIdZ36329506 <- one of these i have also
21:28<dragonhorseboy>hm sorry..maybe not funny but...there's one older (I've had it for some time as shelf display usually but tried it with the BR38 once) DR wagon that I've never been able to track down online well at all
21:28<dragonhorseboy>its one of these saschenwagen (how was that box spelled again?) doubledeck 2-car set in blue/cream paintjob with light gray roof
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21:29<dragonhorseboy>has a cheap folding paper for the diagrams in middle tho (beats me why but meh you can't see it much at all so)
21:30<dragonhorseboy>I only could find conventional coaches in same paintjob but otherwise I never could find anything online that matched what I have oddly but I'm sure this is a real model as it even has some technical details (weight too) in small letterings on the side
21:30<Eddi|zuHause2>http://cgi.ebay.de/H0-Piko---Lok-E-69-(5/6200)-neuwertig!_W0QQitemZ280200091725QQcmdZViewItem <- i have also one of those, but the pantograph is missing
21:30<Eddi|zuHause2>that's probably the cutest engine i have ;)
21:31<dragonhorseboy>ah it was Sachsenmodelle I was thinking of duh....but anyway...
21:31-!-glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye]
21:32<dragonhorseboy>http://reynaulds.com/sachsenmodelle/images/74033.jpg about same but not the roof colour I think
21:33<dragonhorseboy>its only listed as "Set Of 2 Lend-Out Coaches" which does not even help my search to track down elusive info of these 2-car doubledecker I got
21:33<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never seen blue DR wagons...
21:34<dragonhorseboy>might be my memory re another car I had too..let me see if I can still find some older photos I took of the entire collection I had once...
21:34<Eddi|zuHause2>wagons have either been green (local), cream/green (long distance) or cream/orange ("Städteexpress")
21:36<dragonhorseboy>*pokes more folders*
21:38<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.miba.de/neuheit/98/05/piko5.htm <- i also have two of these
21:38<dragonhorseboy>nice :p
21:39<dragonhorseboy>ah hm found one of my old forum post instead...
21:40<dragonhorseboy>the diesel is actually #3149 which is not even in maerklin's database as it is now like I was saying
21:40<dragonhorseboy>here's one photo of someone else's tho http://i4.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/a9/e7/9c87_1.JPG (mine looks lot more dull yellow or it must be the camera flash there)
21:41<dragonhorseboy>mine even can't complete the 'Z' on one side due to too much chipping there already
21:41<dragonhorseboy>funny how the yellow is chipped in several places but none on the green otherwise - a bit suspicious but what do I really know
21:44<dragonhorseboy>anyway sorry about all the talking ^_^
21:45<fjb>dragonhorseboy: That is the belgium version of the V60.
21:47<dragonhorseboy>only if they weren't somewhat collectible I'll have had liked one of these NYC or Rio Grande A-A diesel set :p
21:47<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: S-Bahn Leipzig had blue / cream color: http://www.piko.de/produkt_db/check.php?page=detail&grand_id=3&parent_id=13&child_id=3&id=58053
21:47<dragonhorseboy>usa diesels on ac tracks ^_^
21:48<fjb>:-)
21:48<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: yes, S-Bahn was done in city-colours, but only for a very short time... i have never seen those
21:50<Eddi|zuHause2>at "my time", S-Bahn used these http://www.piko.de/produkt_db/check.php?page=detail&grand_id=3&parent_id=13&child_id=1&id=53100
21:50<dragonhorseboy>fjb....here's a crazy photo: http://www.marklin-users.net/upload/community/notpublic/john%20black/X522L.jpg thats an expensive collection especially an ac Big Boy too 0_o
21:50<dragonhorseboy>but the gray two diesels are the NYC A-A unit sets I'll love to have
21:50<dragonhorseboy>:p
21:51<fjb>That is looking expensive.
21:51<fjb>But Märklin isn't the best choice for US locomotives.
21:52<dragonhorseboy>well but to run them on the same layout? ^_^
21:53<Eddi|zuHause2>typical east german long distance trains looked like this http://www.piko.de/produkt_db/check.php?page=detail&grand_id=3&parent_id=13&child_id=3&id=53040
21:54*fjb loves Piko models, especially the freight wagons.
21:55<Eddi|zuHause2>i have a few different freight wagons
21:55<Eddi|zuHause2>all old...
21:56<dragonhorseboy>hrm still wondering where these old photos were
22:01<dragonhorseboy>oh well can't find them but I'm going to bed :/
22:01<dragonhorseboy>bye
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22:09*fjb should also go to bed.
22:11<fjb>Good night.
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 15 00:00:35 2008