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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-12

---Logopened Wed Mar 12 00:00:17 2008
---Daychanged Wed Mar 12 2008
00:00<DaleStan>Sometimes, yes, but not always. You can, for example, set "autorenew 0", in which case vehicles will be auto renewed 0 months after they reach their max age, or you can set "autorenew off", in which case vehicles will not be autorenewed.
00:00<stevenh>ie. the difference between null and 0
00:01<Eddi|zuHause3>well, yes, but then you have to reserve another value for "off" (like "255")
00:01-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F56E42.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
00:01<Eddi|zuHause3>in the end, you still have to save that value somewhere
00:02<@glx>EXE = $(shell ( [ \( $(ISCYGWIN) -eq 1 \) ] || [ \( $(ISMSYS) -eq 1 \) ] ) && echo .exe ) <-- like this?
00:02<DaleStan>No, you use an array of 256 bits for the on/off settings, and then put the value, if necessary, and un-magic-valued, in some other location.
00:02<DaleStan>Yes, glx.
00:03<Eddi|zuHause3>well, yes, but then it would be inconsequent to not allow this bitmask be read by grfs
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00:05<DaleStan>Parts of that bitmask are available, as action 7 var 85. However, reading the values was invented much more recently, so instead of the on/off setting of unifiedmaglev, GRFs get to read the low and high bits of the unifiedmaglev setting.
00:06<@glx>EXE could be removed ans replaced with REL_EXE
00:08<stevenh>DaleStan, can you please make sense of this: "Converts the maglev engines to monorail and moves to 3rd railtype" ... ie. using maglev graphics but monorail coding (movement/accel/etc) ?
00:08<DaleStan>To facilitate this, "unifiedmaglev off" sets unifiedmaglev's value to 3, until/unless a (post-config-read) check of electrifiedrailways changes it to 1.
00:09<stevenh>so the X2001 will be available on maglev track along with the maglevs and use monorail graphics if I set it to "1"
00:10<Eddi|zuHause3>so then "3" should be the reported value by ottd?
00:10<stevenh>Eddi|zuHause3, and it is.
00:10<Eddi|zuHause3>(since electrified railway is irrelevant)
00:11<DaleStan>Yes, I guess so. So unifiedmaglev also changes whether the third railtype gets the (user-specified) monorail acceleration setting, or the (independent user-specified) maglev acceleration setting. And stop calling "third" "monorail" or "maglev" The track type is "third", regardless of the track sprites it uses.
00:11<stevenh>but for backwards compatibility-sake, the value cannot be 3 in TTDP if elrails is on.
00:11<Eddi|zuHause3>but what is the problem with that?
00:13<DaleStan>Because the grfs get both bits, but there has never been any reason to check more than one of them, once it is confirmed that elrails is on. Usually this comes first, and then the grf will use one of those bits to determine whether the value is 1 or 2, and then change the correct track sprites.
00:13<Eddi|zuHause3>"3" means "monorail stays monorail and maglev stays maglev", what would possibly be a reason to change that?
00:13<stevenh>Well, to tell the truth, I've never hit the situation and therefore don't know.
00:14<Eddi|zuHause3>DaleStan: so the grf is badly coded, why should we care?
00:14<DaleStan>That's not badly coded. That's the way things have worked for 5+ years.
00:14<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, and 1900 is a leap year since 20 years
00:15<DaleStan>Furthermore, that's the way the documentation says it works, and the documentation, above all else, is the final arbiter on how things work.
00:15<@glx>interesting discussion, but I need to sleep :)
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00:16<Eddi|zuHause3>at some point you get to the situation when "stick to the old ways at all costs" is not worth it anymore
00:17<Eddi|zuHause3>just add "this does not work in openttd" to the specs, and you are done...
00:18<DaleStan>Which is the point when you bump the version number in the action 8, or add a flag elsewere so the GRFs can explicitly specify that they understand the new behaviour.
00:20<Eddi|zuHause3>imho, when you said "unifiedmaglev is always on if electrifiedrailway is on" in the grf specs you put implementation details into the specification, this is bound to cause trouble once such a rather arbitrary limitation is lifted
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00:36<Eddi|zuHause3>also, ottd behaviour is like this for 2 years now... it should have been changed back then
00:36<Eddi|zuHause3>(i mean the grf spec)
00:37<Sacro>g'night chaps
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01:53<stevenh>ok, so that means the devs should look at the current catenary on third rail type patch and tell me what they think :)
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04:30<Celestar>morning
04:33<larsemil>morn
04:35<@peter1138>La de la de la
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04:47<Rubidium>Celestar two days in a row? What's happened? :)
04:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r12361 /trunk/src/lang/ (16 files): (log message trimmed)
04:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-03-12 09:46:45
04:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 fixed by fukumori (2)
04:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 3 fixed, 1 changed by kokobongo (3), thetitan (1)
04:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
04:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 2 fixed by Hadez (2)
04:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 15 fixed by ThomasA (15)
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05:23<@peter1138>Pom te pom...
05:30*peter1138 updates his GRF rail types ideas...
05:30<@peter1138>The one that gives us 16 rail types...
05:31<@peter1138>And screw TTDPatch's unifiedmaglev setting
05:40-!-Gekz [~brendan@cpe-121-217-242-204.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
05:46<@peter1138>(By that I mean I'm not going to let it hold us back, heh)
05:50<Gonozal_VIII>right, why hold back good stuff in open because of some strange cheat in patch
05:51<Celestar>Rubidium: nothing. I hope I'll have a bit more time at my hands
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05:52<@peter1138>Hmm, regarding FS#1831/FS#1847, could we just add some magic to the registry lookup?
05:52<Celestar>registry?
05:52<@peter1138>I closed FS#1831 as I was unaware that the registry bit was done in our code :o
05:53<Gonozal_VIII>yay magic
05:53<@peter1138>Celestar: used by determinerevision.vbs when compiling under MSVC...
05:53<@peter1138>(i.e. safe for us sensible people to ignore)
05:54<@peter1138># Hang on to your ego
05:54<Celestar>uh huh
05:54<larsemil>i found a bug. after ZZZzzz comes up i have to change cursor manually(like choosing a road) for it to change back
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06:20<yorick>indeed, PCX with 32pbb totaly fails
06:20<yorick>bpp*
06:20<@peter1138>Hmm?
06:21<yorick>try to make a screenshot with the 32bpp-anim blitter enabled
06:21<yorick>in pcx
06:21<yorick>it can't save 32bpp in 8bpp files ;)
06:21<@peter1138>Ah.
06:22<yorick>fullscreen aswell
06:22*peter1138 doesn't use 32bpp, so isn't bothered ;p
06:23<yorick>I guess if you set fullscreen bpp to 32, it would work for fullscreen
06:24<yorick>I guess you need another screenshot format, for if game isn't built with png
06:24<yorick>jpg at quality 10?
06:24-!-stevenh [~sh@dsl-202-45-98-181.ACT.netspace.net.au] has joined #openttd
06:24<yorick>full, that is
06:25<yorick>bmp is kinda stupid on *nix
06:25<stevenh>to all, what would be the damage of changing the realistic acceleration patch boolean to a uint8?
06:25<@peter1138>Er, why? heh
06:25<stevenh>will ottd read that the ini has now a 'bad' value and use the default?
06:25<stevenh>i would like to make it cover maglev as well
06:26<@peter1138>'realistic' needs revamping as it's shit anyway
06:27<@peter1138>stevenh: most likely, yes.
06:27<Celestar>peter1138: hey hey :P
06:28<@peter1138>Celestar :D
06:28<Celestar>it'S the best we had at that time :P
06:29<@peter1138>Did you write it? Er, sorry ;)
06:29<Celestar>;)
06:29<stevenh>hmmm.... i'm no physicist...
06:30<stevenh>but it'd be nice to get whatever we have on shinkansen.. i mean.. maglev anyway...
06:30<@peter1138>Oh
06:30<@peter1138>Then I think that's inappropriate.
06:30<@peter1138>You're applying realistic acceleration to shinkansen, not maglev.
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06:31<stevenh>isn't that a good thing?
06:31<Celestar>what's so bad about the realistic acceleration?
06:31<@peter1138>You're thinking TTDPatch ;)
06:31<Celestar>I mean it's been tampered with often enough :P
06:31<stevenh>possibly?
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06:32<Gonozal_VIII>maglev doesn't have friction stuff
06:32<@peter1138>Celestar: massive acceleration at low speed seems unfitting for freight, at least.
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06:32<yorP>}|
06:32<stevenh>so you think the current maglev accel is good for shinkansen? ... i'm lost yet again.
06:32<Celestar>er why?
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06:32<@peter1138>stevenh: no
06:32<Celestar>the SKS acclerates like every other train
06:33<Celestar>(electric)
06:33<Yorick>electrician failed at replacing a light bulb
06:33<@peter1138>stevenh: but I think there are better ways to change it than hacking it in as a patch option.
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06:33<Celestar>maglevs have a completely different acceleration
06:33<@peter1138>For example...
06:33<@peter1138>My future plan: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Peter1138/Railtypes
06:34<@peter1138>(Yes, I did just add the acceleration property now ;))
06:35<Yorick>peter1138 seems to have an idea/patch for everything...
06:35<Yorick><yorick> but bjarni finishes things :)
06:36<stevenh>peter1138, that all looks neat
06:36<stevenh>i remember being in this exact situation when coding trams
06:36<stevenh>Oskar said to wait for newroutes... i... started anyway
06:36<stevenh>i'll sit down and shut up this time.
06:36<Celestar>does Bjarni still exist?
06:36<Yorick>sure
06:37<stevenh>can I please make TE show for third rail though?
06:37<@peter1138>TE?
06:37<stevenh>oh... it wont be calculated anyway...
06:37<stevenh>tractive effort, or whatever it is
06:37<@peter1138>stevenh: i started that as oskar seems to have stopped developing for ttdpathc.
06:38<@peter1138>ah, well te won't be used
06:38<@peter1138>not while it's using maglev acceleration, heh
06:38<Celestar>how'S The Patch doing?
06:38<stevenh>yeah, exactly... the main goal of the japanset coder was to get TE to show...
06:38<stevenh>but that's pointless if the rest isn't enabled.
06:38<@peter1138>Celestar: freight acceleration: i think the problem is just because trains *can* accelerate fast, doesn't mean they do
06:38<@peter1138>i may be wrong, i'm not a train spotter, heh
06:39<Celestar>peter1138: I can conduct a field test if you wish. There's a hugeass freight station round the corner
06:39<stevenh>seems turning realistic_accel to a uint8 breaks save-game compatibility anyway
06:40<@peter1138>also, feel free to add any further ideas to that page :)
06:40<Celestar>http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.19513,11.499478&spn=0.004777,0.009999&t=h&z=17
06:40<stevenh>let me get an idea of the entirety of ottd first
06:40<Celestar>:)
06:40<Celestar>there
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06:40<@peter1138>Celestar: bah, they're not accelerating at all :)
06:40<stevenh>Celestar, shite, that's awesome
06:41<Celestar>peter1138: just click-and-drag
06:41<@peter1138>hehe
06:41<Celestar>stevenh: that's one of the freight terminals in town
06:41<Celestar>http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.145608,11.698658&spn=0.002391,0.005&t=h&z=18
06:41<Celestar>this is the other one
06:42<stevenh>neeeat...
06:42<stevenh>my town has a branch of a branch and a pax service twice daily
06:42<Celestar>http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.140873,11.554313&spn=0.002391,0.005&t=h&z=18
06:43<Celestar>and that'S the main passenger terminal
06:43<stevenh>for the capital of a country.. that's pretty lame
06:43<Celestar>stevenh: what country is that :P
06:43<@peter1138>http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&ll=51.814216,-0.817682&spn=0.001509,0.003648&t=h&z=18
06:43<@peter1138>my local rubbish ;)
06:43<stevenh>australia.
06:43<Celestar>peter1138: TA DAA
06:44<stevenh>peter1138, why does everyone always leave me with huge decisions? :)
06:45<@peter1138>like what? heh
06:45<stevenh>for now, compatibilty reasons... can you throw in the catenary on third rail patch?
06:45<stevenh>like not being able to enable realistic accel, because it'd be way smarter to help with railtypes
06:45<@peter1138>ah
06:46<@peter1138>Celestar: impressive isn't it :o
06:46<@peter1138>stevenh: well, i think we're not doing anything new for 0.6... bug fixes only
06:46<@peter1138>but otherwise your patch is now fine as the test is in one place -- it'll be easy enough to change it later to do what we want.
06:47<Celestar>peter1138: mightily impressive
06:47<stevenh>okey dokey.
06:47<stevenh>http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Canberra+ACT,+Australia&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.319135,149.15185&spn=0.006863,0.01133&t=h&z=17
06:47<stevenh>that group of rolling stock you can see in that shot is the railway museum
06:47<stevenh>that i help volunteer with...
06:47<Celestar>http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.353682,11.781979&spn=0.038101,0.079994&t=h&z=14 <= I prefer this
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06:47<@peter1138>weird, that one looks like a model
06:48<Celestar>which one?
06:48<@peter1138>the railway museum
06:48<@peter1138>i think it's the colouring
06:48<Celestar>stevenh: that's a hugeass station (=
06:49<@peter1138>when do we get airports like that in ottd? :D
06:49<Yorick>newgrfports?
06:49<Celestar>peter1138: well the thing is, it uses as much space as a 50k town, do we want airports that large?
06:49<Celestar>I mean this thing already has 2 railway station (and a 3rd in planning)
06:49<stevenh>peter1138, is there a branch for railtypes?
06:50<Yorick>no
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06:52<Yorick>nooo
06:52<Yorick>not the lobster
06:53<lobster>shush, you rectum-faced pygmy
06:54<Yorick>remove that quit message, please
06:54<lobster>no
06:54<Yorick>stop calling me a vagina, please
06:55<lobster>no
06:55<lobster>i see no reason why not
06:56<lobster>anyway
06:56*lobster returns to bed
06:56<Yorick>ok, then do it :)
06:56<lobster>moar sleep
06:56<Yorick>if you see no reason why not...
06:57*Yorick eats lobster
06:59<stevenh>ugh... what can i help with then? ... pretends to go tinker pixels for the japset.
06:59<@peter1138>stevenh: no, i have a mercurial repo, but i don't get on with it too well. so just some patches, heh
07:00<Yorick>the canal lock middle part could be made slope-sensitive
07:00<Yorick>frees 2 bits!
07:01<@peter1138>heh
07:01<@peter1138>for what?
07:01<Yorick>for freeing bits for later
07:01<@peter1138>Not much point in doing it unless you have a use for them.
07:03<Yorick>I want to check how many bits would be needed for lively rivers
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07:03<@peter1138>Yorick: do you think the current 42 bits free isn't enough?
07:03<@peter1138>Oh, -8
07:03<Celestar>bits bits bits
07:03<Celestar>:P
07:03<@peter1138>Yorick: do you think the current 36 bits free isn't enough?
07:04<@peter1138>Celestar: yeah, let's just add another uint32 to the map array ;)
07:04<Celestar>\o/
07:04<Yorick>heh, we'll see
07:05<@peter1138>(For a modern computer capable of running a 2048² map, another 16MB isn't a lot...)
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07:05<Yorick>it should contain flow units, depth, reference id to local authority, flow direction, flow state
07:05<@peter1138>LA is 16 bits :o
07:06<@peter1138>Why is that needed?
07:06<Yorick>something should protect it...
07:06<Yorick>ability to form lakes, terraform
07:06<Yorick>changing width
07:06<Gonozal_VIII>what does that have to do with local authority?
07:07<Gonozal_VIII>not needed imho
07:07<Yorick>maybe "river controlling unit"?
07:07<@peter1138>Trees affect the LA, but don't have a reference to it.
07:07<Yorick>"Lakes and rivers have their own entities like town authorities. This entity decides how the river or lake expands or shrinks depending on water surplus or lack of. Every tile knows its related lake or river."
07:07<Gonozal_VIII>you misunderstood that
07:07<Gonozal_VIII>that means that they act on their own
07:08<Yorick>real rivers don't think, do they?
07:08<@peter1138>Oh, so LA does not mean local authority in the usual sense?
07:08<Yorick>no
07:08<Gonozal_VIII>river id
07:08<@peter1138>seems silly.
07:08<Gonozal_VIII>or something like that
07:08<@peter1138>What happens when rivers merge or fork?
07:09<Gonozal_VIII>they don't fork
07:09<Yorick>or merge
07:09<Gonozal_VIII>if they merge, water input is merged too
07:09<Yorick>only merging into sea ;)
07:09<@peter1138>LA wise.
07:09<Yorick>sea is some kind of black hole
07:09<Gonozal_VIII>i guess the part after the merge gets a new id then
07:09<@peter1138>Uh, rivers should merge...
07:09<Yorick>it can take as much flow units as it wants
07:10<@peter1138>And rivers can fork.
07:10<Gonozal_VIII>not really
07:10<Yorick>is DoDryUp for tiles with ships on it working?
07:11<Yorick>I think the water should be removed and the ship crashed
07:11<Gonozal_VIII>only the end has the ability to expand as long as it's not blocked
07:11<Gonozal_VIII>that's the flooding part... the rest is just flowing
07:12<Yorick>assert(IsCoast(tile)); <-- probably not then
07:12<@peter1138>http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/796/5103201.JPG
07:12<Yorick>if its blocked, it forms a nicce lake
07:12<Gonozal_VIII>yes but after the valley is filled up, it only escapes in one direction, no fork
07:12<@peter1138>That's a fork.
07:12<Forked>huh
07:13<@peter1138>:D
07:13<Gonozal_VIII>i know what you mean peter but that would be difficult to implement
07:13<Forked>peter1138: it didn't trigger my hilight, I just randomly looked at the channel =p
07:13<Gonozal_VIII>for the basic stuff that's not needed, can be added later
07:13<Yorick>now you may tell me how RAIL TILES should be able to dry up
07:13<@peter1138>rail tiles are dry.
07:13<@peter1138>So there you are.
07:13<Yorick>assert(GetRailGroundType(tile) == RAIL_GROUND_WATER);
07:14<Gonozal_VIII>that's shore
07:14<@peter1138>Oh, magic shores :o
07:14<Gonozal_VIII>if that dries up, rail doesn't have to be changed
07:15<Gonozal_VIII>it's either a foundation or a bridgehead
07:15<Yorick>normal water tiles should be able to dryup aswell
07:15<Yorick>crashing any ships on them
07:16<Gonozal_VIII>that can all be added later
07:18*peter1138 wonders if varaction2 rails are feasible.
07:18-!-Gekz [~brendan@CPE-121-217-242-204.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
07:18<Gonozal_VIII>action 2 stuff should work on action a thingies
07:18<@peter1138>Pardon?
07:19<Gonozal_VIII>random or situation based replacement of original sprites, not only for new spritesets
07:20<@peter1138>That's no feasible.
07:20<@peter1138>+t
07:20<Gonozal_VIII>why not?
07:20<@peter1138>Well, why bother?
07:20<Gonozal_VIII>for example random terrain sprites instead of the same on every tile
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07:21<@peter1138>If you're doing varaction 2, just use an action 1 instead of action a...
07:21<Gonozal_VIII>huh?
07:22<Gonozal_VIII>that works?
07:22<@peter1138>action a is required for terrain only because nobody has coded terrain to use action 1/2/3
07:22<@peter1138>(probably that would be very slow)
07:22<Gonozal_VIII>32bpp stuff is very slow too
07:23<Yorick>coast with railtrack, why not remove the whole coast there?
07:23<@peter1138>Yorick: I assume because it was only recently added?
07:23-!-CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd
07:23<@peter1138>Though I don't knwo.
07:23<Gonozal_VIII>it floods and it could have a different foundation where you see the coast or something...
07:23<@peter1138>(What about half rail/half water tiles?)
07:24<Yorick>FLOOD_ACTIVE: 'single-corner-raised'-coast, sea, sea-shipdepots, sea-buoys, sea-docks (water part), rail with flooded halftile
07:24<Yorick>FLOOD_DRYUP: coast with more than one corner raised, coast with rail-track, coast with trees
07:25<@peter1138>Gonozal_VIII: so write a patch to make terrain drawing using action 1/2/3...
07:25*Gonozal_VIII hides somewhere
07:28-!-Gekz [~brendan@CPE-121-217-242-204.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:29<Yorick>station tiles m5 road stops bit 00..05, wouldn't that only need 3 bits? 2 bits are 4 exit possiblities, bit 3 for drive-through checking, if bit 3 is set, bit 1 and 2 act as direction
07:29<@peter1138>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOGJLoVi-Bg
07:30*Celestar was thinking the time of bit-saving was over :P
07:30<Celestar>peter1138: work safe?
07:30<@peter1138>Yes
07:31<Celestar>omg
07:31<Yorick>000: exit towards NE,010: exit towards SE,110: exit towards SW,100: exit towards NW,011: drive through X,101: drive through Y
07:32<Yorick>you should ban yourself now :)
07:32<Yorick>hmm...nvm
07:32<Yorick>no offtopic youtube links thingy has been removed
07:32<Celestar>what was the name of the UK show where they do all kinds of funky stuff to cars?
07:34-!-Gekz [~brendan@cpe-121-217-242-204.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
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07:35<Yorick>railway station platforms could be autodetected :)
07:35<@peter1138>what?
07:36<Yorick>you're using 7 bits for it now
07:36<Yorick>8*
07:36<@peter1138>Only 3 bits are needed for that. 8 bits is a leftover from when the station type was not stored.
07:37<Yorick>00..01 open platform 02..03 open platform with station building 04....07 roofed platform
07:37<@peter1138>Exactly. 3 bits.
07:37<Celestar>that's 3 bits
07:37<Yorick>hmpf
07:37<Celestar>8 states
07:37<Yorick>:(
07:39-!-Gekz [~brendan@cpe-121-217-242-204.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving]
07:39<@peter1138>Why :( ?
07:40*Yorick had it wrong
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07:42<Celestar>sh
07:42<stevenh>mofo...there needs to be more oranges in the TTD palette
07:42-!-Gekz [~brendan@cpe-121-217-242-204.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
07:43<@peter1138>And people still aren't making 32bpp sets for OpenTTD :o
07:44<stevenh>it's happening slowly...
07:44<stevenh>it's still too soon...
07:44<stevenh>you know the rule... you can't just stop supporting 'the other one'
07:44<@peter1138>Well there's the whole "must replace everything!!!" stuff...
07:44<Yorick>problem is the insane amounts of cpu use for me with 32bpp
07:45<@peter1138>But no 32bpp stuff to go along with a NewGRF.
07:45<Yorick>only applying a new gui makes the mouse go stuck
07:45<@peter1138>Huh?
07:46<Yorick>^^
07:46<Yorick>it doesn't use SDL for that, does it?
07:46<@peter1138>For what?
07:46<Yorick>for drawing 32bpp
07:47<@peter1138>SDL is basically used for setting up a drawing surface.
07:47<Yorick>even when there are no 32bpp sprites seen, the cpu use is high
07:47<@peter1138>(Unless you're using GDI...)
07:48<Yorick>yes, sprite_cache_size is set to 64 ;)
07:48<@peter1138>Seems to use a very similar amount of CPU for me.
07:48<@peter1138>(With no 32bpp sprites loaded)
07:48<Yorick>it takes 34% with 32bpp, and 1% without
07:48<@peter1138>With trunk?
07:48<Yorick>yes
07:49<@peter1138>Windows? GDI?
07:49<@peter1138>Might be a problem there. Under SDL it is fine.
07:49<Yorick>dunno
07:50<Yorick>how do I put it on sdl?
07:50<@peter1138>-v sdl
07:50<@peter1138>(Probably needs compiling for it)
07:50<Yorick>"there is no such video driver"
07:51<Yorick>and how do I compile for it on mingw?
07:51<@peter1138>No idea :)
07:52-!-Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:53<Yorick>how do I do that in general?
07:54-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1C012.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:55<@peter1138>It may be on the wiki.
07:55<Yorick>at least libsdl.org has instructions :)
07:57<Yorick>great...there is no configure script
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08:04-!-Osai is now known as Osai^Work
08:05-!-Osai^Work is now known as Osai^Work`off
08:06<@peter1138>Pom te pom
08:06<@peter1138>Silly work... requiring me to work indeed :(
08:08<Gekz>I swear the internet is all Germans and lolcats.
08:09<keyweed>spaskatze?
08:09<Gekz>ja,
08:09*peter1138 adds two more properties to railtypes
08:10<Yorick>for?
08:12<@peter1138>speed related
08:12<@peter1138>If we can add railtypes, why not add speed limits for them?
08:12<@peter1138>Seems to be a wanted feature.
08:14*Yorick needs GetCurrentBpp
08:15<@peter1138>Isn't there one?
08:15<@peter1138>int bpp = BlitterFactoryBase::GetCurrentBlitter()->GetScreenDepth();
08:15<Yorick>could be
08:18<Yorick>there :)
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08:18<Yorick>switching blitters ingame is not possible, is it?
08:19-!-NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
08:20<Yorick>short int bpp = BlitterFactoryBase::GetCurrentBlitter()->GetScreenDepth();?
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08:27<Yorick>console cmd "script" --> "log"?
08:27-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@062249182162.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:29<stevenh>night
08:29-!-SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
08:30<Yorick>morning
08:30-!-stevenh [~sh@dsl-202-45-98-181.ACT.netspace.net.au] has quit []
08:30<keyweed>afternoon
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08:36<@peter1138>Yorick: could be if you wrote supporting code for it, heh
08:37<@peter1138>You'd need to half-reset the spritecache though
08:37<Yorick>huh?
08:37<@peter1138>Hmm/
08:37<@peter1138>?
08:37<SmatZ>!logs
08:37<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
08:37<Yorick>where are you talking about?
08:37<Yorick>(now)
08:37<@peter1138>12:16 Yorick> switching blitters ingame is not possible, is it?
08:38<Yorick>I wanted to check :)
08:38<Yorick>I don't even want it
08:39-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-58.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd
08:41<Yorick>no chinese language pack?
08:42<Yorick>ah, there
08:42<@peter1138>You'd need to restart the video driver too... heh
08:42<@peter1138>Who knows, maybe the OpenGL driver will become usable one day.
08:49<Yorick>I'm working on a isocode-NETLANG_* conversion
08:50<Yorick>so language could be sent over network
08:50<Yorick>and displayed in the client list, isn't that shiny?
08:51<Yorick>but I wonder if en_GB should be NETLANG_ANY or NETLANG_ENGLISH
09:01-!-Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-58.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:01<Yorick>how about http://pastebin.com/d789dcfb9 ?
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09:17<Eddi|zuHause3>* peter1138 wonders if varaction2 rails are feasible. <- you mean like customising pylon positions and stuff?
09:17<@peter1138>No, I mean chosing sprites to draw.
09:19<Ammler>drwxr-Sr-- 4 ottdcoop ottdcoop 4096 Mar 12 13:10 tags <-- what does "S" mean ?
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09:24<Progman>sticky but, but no +x
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09:30<Ammler>[14:24] <Progman> sticky but, but no +x <-- and that means?
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09:30<Ammler>take over the rights of folder?
09:31<Progman>new files got chgrp'ed to the directory group owner, yes
09:31<Progman>instead of the user default group id, so other users of the group can still work (and edit) with the files
09:32<Ammler>and how do I keep that "sticky" and add +x?
09:32<Progman>chmod g+x file?
09:32<Ammler>but then the "S" is gone
09:32-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F56E42.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
09:32<Progman>it is?
09:33<Ammler>drwxr-xr-x 4 ottdcoop ottdcoop 4096 Mar 12 13:10 tags
09:33<Progman>and if you use g+s?
09:34<Yorick>hmm..._langpack appears to be global, but isn't
09:34<Ammler>Progman: doesn't change anything
09:34<Progman>http://nopaste.php-quake.net/19141
09:34<@peter1138>Yorick, it is 'global' scope
09:35<Progman>thats how it works, you did something wrong ;)
09:38<Ammler>I did a+x, else is everything the same
09:39<Progman>what did you have and what did you want now?
09:39<Ammler>I had S and want s
09:39<Ammler>I have now x
09:39<Ammler>well
09:39<Ammler>no problem
09:39<Ammler>I don't need s
09:40<Ammler>that folder won't be written from server...
09:40<Ammler>was just wondering...
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09:42<Yorick>src/network/network_client.cpp:926: error: switch quantity not an integer }|
09:43<Yorick>since when does it have to be?
09:43<@peter1138>Hi glx
09:43<@peter1138>glx, is it possible to add the 64/32bit conversion shit to determineversion.vbs?
09:43<+glx>dunno
09:44<@peter1138>Just another registry look up if the first one returns... empty I assume. I don't really know how it all works.
09:45<+glx>neither do I
09:46<+glx>the problem is (as I understand it) 32bits app can't read 64bit registry
09:47-!-Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-242-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
09:48<Yorick>"On Windows x64, 32-bit programs aren't allowed to read and write in "HKLM\SOFTWARE". Instead they perform there actions in "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node". When running the determineversion.vbs from explorer, it gets executed by a 64-bit instance of the interpreter, and it executes normally."
09:48<SmatZ>install 32bit TortoiseSVN then
09:48<Yorick>"he script tries to find Tortoise by looking in the registry for the Key "HKLM\SOFTWARE\TortoiseSVN\Directory"."
09:48<Yorick>installing 32bit SVN fixes the problem
09:49<Yorick>it can't be done anyway else, I think
09:49<Yorick>Project Manager action pending. See the History tab for details. <-- what does that mean?
09:50<SmatZ>or TortoiseSVN can be patched to write to HKLM\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node too
09:50-!-murray [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::beef] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:50<SmatZ>but it's their job...
09:50<Yorick>open a bug report there
09:50<+glx>I may have found a solution :)
09:50<SmatZ>I do not have any problem with that...
09:51<SmatZ>glx: use 64bit application (cmd?) to access the registry? :)
09:52<Yorick>http://issues.tortoisesvn.net/
09:52<@peter1138>Hmm, then I misunderstood it some more :)
09:52<+glx>no a special flag (but I don't know if it's possible in vbs)
09:52-!-Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-103-43-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
09:53<Draakon>hello
09:54-!-murray [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::beef] has joined #openttd
09:57<Yorick>so I can't switch according to strings ?!
09:58<SmatZ>Yorick: in C/C++?
09:58<Yorick>C++
09:58<SmatZ>you are comparing pointers then
09:58<SmatZ>use strcmp()
09:59<Yorick>hmm...I'll put a paste
09:59<Yorick>http://paste.openttd.org/984
10:00<+glx>that's not c++ code :)
10:00<Yorick>its in a c++ file
10:00<Yorick>:)
10:01<Yorick>then tell me how to do it
10:01<SmatZ>Yorick: most likely it won't work - the only case it would work would be if _langpack->isocode was a pointer to one of those strings :)
10:01<Yorick>_langpack.isocode, it should have been
10:01<SmatZ>if they were merged by optimisiation with another string with the same text.. so it coule be addressable
10:01<SmatZ>blah blah :)
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10:02<SmatZ>Yorick: do a static table
10:02<SmatZ>and use strcmp() on it
10:02*Yorick does not know what that means yet
10:02<SmatZ>like
10:03<SmatZ>struct LangCodes { const char *langstring; uint8 netlang; };
10:03<SmatZ>and then make array of LandCodes
10:03<SmatZ>g
10:03<SmatZ>or if anyone has a better solution...
10:04<SmatZ>(better LangMapping or so, not plural)
10:05*Belugas kinda rememebers having a code like that in some newgrf_text files...
10:05<Yorick>you guys let me figure out it doesn't work every time, don
10:06<Yorick>t you?
10:06<@Belugas>no... true... you shold bring up the ideas, and we should code them right away...
10:07-!-Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -]
10:07<@Belugas>Yorick, look at newgrf_text.cpp:97 you might find it usefull
10:07<Yorick>I ok
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10:10<Yorick>}|
10:13<Eddi|zuHause3>EInvalidSmilie
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10:14*Yorick is happy with his text editor with macros!
10:19<lobster>!logs
10:19<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
10:21-!-LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
10:22<Yorick>LordAzamath!
10:22<LordAzamath>Yorick!
10:22<LordAzamath>...
10:23<LordAzamath>hello
10:23<Yorick>hello
10:23<lobster>arghueh, more pygmys
10:23<lobster>!seen Lakie
10:23<lobster>hmm, no patchbot here eh
10:23<LordAzamath>@seen lakie
10:23<@DorpsGek>LordAzamath: I have not seen lakie.
10:23<lobster>bloody stupid
10:23<lobster>ah
10:24<lobster>how rare though, "Dorpsgek"
10:24<lobster>t'is village idiot
10:24<lobster>in Dutch
10:24<Yorick>true
10:24<lobster>as you are most likely aware of
10:24<LordAzamath>who
10:24<Yorick>it's truebrain's bot
10:24<Yorick>*
10:24<lobster>gah
10:24-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-84-254.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
10:24*lobster heads off
10:25<Draakon>@seen dih*
10:25<@DorpsGek>Draakon: dih* could be dih (15 hours, 3 minutes, and 47 seconds ago), dih_ (3 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes, and 55 seconds ago), dihedral (8 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 12 minutes, and 47 seconds ago), dihedral_ (16 weeks, 6 days, 18 hours, 36 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), dihedral|work (19 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes, and 37 seconds ago), dihedral|lunch (19 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 44 seconds (1 more message)
10:25<Celestar>.
10:26<Yorick>try @more
10:26<Celestar>@seen richk*
10:26<@DorpsGek>Celestar: richk* could be RichK67 (28 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes, and 51 seconds ago) or RichK67_ (31 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes, and 57 seconds ago)
10:26<LordAzamath>Draakon: You can also try an h :P
10:26<Draakon>why needed?
10:26<LordAzamath>delete the space :P
10:26<Draakon>who the heck is SpBot in this channel?
10:27<SmatZ>!logs
10:27<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
10:27<Draakon>Unauthorised Bot?
10:27<SmatZ>hmm
10:27<SmatZ>!seen SpBot
10:27<SmatZ>@seen SpBot
10:27<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: SpBot was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <SpBot> I stand by my right to remain silent
10:27<Draakon>its online currently
10:28<SmatZ>he seems to be reamin silent
10:28<SmatZ>*to remain...
10:28<Yorick>he's a bot, what did you think?
10:28<Yorick>SbBot, help
10:28<Draakon>Unauthorised one?
10:28<Yorick>no
10:28<Yorick>SpBot, help
10:28<Yorick>he remains with SpComb, I think
10:29<Draakon>@help?
10:29<Draakon>:P
10:29<Yorick>SpBot: list
10:29<Yorick>[15:29] CTCP/VERSION reply from SpBot : SpBotII
10:30-!-Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-103-43-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: @seen]
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10:32<@peter1138>Bah...
10:32<@peter1138>Is there a Windows SFTP client?
10:33<Yorick>sftwhat?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause3>SSH Secure Shell?
10:33<Yorick>FileZilla?
10:33<Gonozal_VIII>what does the s mean?
10:33<Yorick>Putty?
10:33<Yorick>or you could try tunneling ;)
10:34<Gonozal_VIII>i use smartftp... smart starts with s, yay :-)
10:34<SmatZ>peter1138: winscp
10:34<Yorick>filezilla supports SFTP
10:35*SmatZ can be wrong
10:35*Yorick is bad at referencing
10:35<larsemil>winscp and filezilla are good
10:36<Yorick>so, how do I take _langpack to network_client.cpp?
10:36<@peter1138>Why?
10:37<Yorick>because I need to get the current isocode used
10:37-!-Leviath [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd
10:38<Yorick>and extern LanguagePack _langpack; fails; undefined reference
10:39<Eddi|zuHause3>what do you need isocodes for?
10:40<Eddi|zuHause3>languages have internal representations all over the place
10:41-!-stavrosg [~stavrosg@athedsl-202075.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd
10:46<Gonozal_VIII>slow internet sucks
10:47<Gonozal_VIII>256 kbit atm...
10:49<@Belugas>work@work sucks even more
10:50<Gonozal_VIII>possible... but i'm not part of the working class^^
10:51<Yorick>Eddi: yes, but I need to be sure that the thing stays the same when the languages change
10:52-!-thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7885A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
10:52<Eddi|zuHause3>Yorick: why? can it change within the same version?
10:53<Yorick>no, but updating it every change to language files isn't very nice, is it?
10:53<Yorick>and webtranslator2, how should it cope?
10:53<Eddi|zuHause3>errr... what?!?
10:54<Yorick>ah...you can't have static externs :)
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>the more you talk, the more i think you are tackling the wrong feature in the totally wrong way
10:55*Yorick stops talking
10:55<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3, seems to happen all the time :o
11:01<Yorick>http://paste.openttd.org/985 <-- then see for yourself
11:02<Yorick>hmm...I should use diff: http://paste.openttd.org/986
11:03<@peter1138>Urgh.
11:03<@peter1138>Just write a function in strings.cpp that returns the current iso code.
11:03<@peter1138>No need to expose the struct everywhere else.
11:03<@peter1138>Why is that needed, anyway?
11:04<Yorick>because it needs it with the extern for some reason, but good idea anyway :)
11:04*Yorick goes coding
11:04<@peter1138>Yet again you missed the point.
11:04<@peter1138>Why is it needed to send the client's language?
11:04<Yorick>because you can then display flags
11:05<Yorick>"and why would you do that" "because I like hammering cluelessly"
11:05<@peter1138>What if I change language mid-game? heh...
11:06*peter1138 attempts to figure out Filezilla.
11:06<@peter1138>It's not as good as Nautilus :o
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>hmm language flags in the client list? somehow that makes sense
11:06-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499E931.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:06<Gonozal_VIII>very unexpected from yorick^^
11:06<@peter1138>"Can not enumerate files in directory 'C:\Documents and Settings\' (error 5: access is denied.)"
11:06<@peter1138>USEFUL
11:07<Yorick>:D
11:07<Yorick>it isn't denied here
11:07<Yorick>maybe you should undeny it :)
11:07<Yorick>or just click my documents directly
11:07<Rubidium>peter1138: not much, except that there will be an inconsistency between the server and one of it's clients... strangely enough it sometimes happens that the client gets booted from the server when there is an inconsistency between the server and (one of) it's clients.
11:07<@peter1138>Oh, I need C:\Users, anyway...
11:08<Yorick>just, but a harmless flag is not a significant inconsistency
11:08<Yorick>and that could be fixed by PACKET_CLIENT_CHANGE_LANG anyway
11:08<Rubidium>I've heard that before
11:09<Yorick>it wasn't used before
11:09<Rubidium>well, rather the "a harmless ... is not a significant inconsistency" thingy
11:10<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, like yapf caches ;)
11:10<Yorick>client_lang isn't exchanged or checked somewhere, because it wasn't even used
11:10<Rubidium>or when NewGRFs start reading such data
11:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i was just about to write that
11:11<Yorick>they read their own data ;)
11:11<Yorick>and that data is updated when clients change language
11:12<Yorick>we don't have MP-aware grfs yet, do we?
11:12<Rubidium>with emphasis on the yet, yes
11:13<Rubidium>but that doesn't mean that because we do not use it *now* it is totally irrelevant whether it is in sync or not, especially when you plan to use it on clients
11:13<Yorick>when we do, code could always be updated to update langs
11:14<Eddi|zuHause3>that is not very convincing
11:14<Eddi|zuHause3>because when somebody decides to use it, he does not necessarily know anymore that it is not in sync
11:14<Yorick>anyway, it would require a new packet
11:14<Rubidium>yeah... it's just forgotten and someone spends a few days hunting a desync that no one knows how to trigger until we force the nightly users to run a crappily slow version of OpenTTD to check all kinds of game states.
11:14<Gonozal_VIII>hmm dunno why i think of that now... but... ai-grf
11:15<Yorick>or they find out it happens when someone changes language
11:15<Eddi|zuHause3>Gonozal_VIII: horrible idea ;)
11:15<Gonozal_VIII>should be possible to change the ai behaviour with a grf
11:15<Yorick>btw, the lang is even inconsistent on the client when someone changes it ;)
11:15-!-nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has joined #openttd
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11:15<@peter1138>IIRC there is a GRF accessible flag for whether we are a server or a client...
11:16<@peter1138>Needless to say, we don't return anything different for either state.
11:16<@peter1138>Unless I'm making that up.
11:16<lobster>gah
11:18<Yorick>\src\lang\brazilian_portuguese.txt:1810: FATAL: Invalid case-name 'f
11:18<Rubidium>Yorick: that's not as bad as giving the 'illusion' that other clients have the same data as your client has. Now the clients know nothing about the language of other clients, so no assumptions about the correctness can be given.
11:18<Rubidium>s/given/made/
11:19<Yorick>but here, its true, the ci->client_lang isn't updated on the client when the language has changed
11:19<Yorick>so everyone has the same ci->client_lang
11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>Yorick: then fix it
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11:20<Yorick>that would require changing the network, adding another packet
11:20-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80CE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
11:21<@Belugas>better fixing than patching
11:21<@Belugas>no offense meant to TTDPatch..
11:21<Yorick>:D you are probably right if I want to make any trunkanizing chance
11:23<Yorick>the last webtranslator update caused a bug in brazilian_portuguese
11:24<Yorick>\src\lang\brazilian_portuguese.txt:1810: FATAL: Invalid case-name 'f
11:25<@Belugas>i need coffee.... badly
11:25<@Belugas>known, Yorick
11:25<Yorick>it prints a nice warning, from which I think I caused it, because I do something with the language system :)
11:26<Rubidium>nah, some Brazilian broke the translation
11:28<Yorick>now I need to fix server flag
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11:29<LordAzamath>@seen skidd13
11:29<@DorpsGek>LordAzamath: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 9 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <skidd13> damn brackets....
11:29-!-Ammler [~Ammler@members.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
11:29<LordAzamath>ok.. if anyone sees skidd13, please call me :)
11:30<@Belugas>wouhou! My lego pieces have finally been delivered :D
11:30<Rubidium>that's too expensive for me
11:31<Rubidium>(the calling part that is)
11:31<@Belugas>tonigh, my son and I will construct this -> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=34145
11:32<LordAzamath>Rubidium: Well.. calling could mean just saying my name too :P
11:32<Yorick>hmm...where is the server client entry setting-up
11:33*Yorick found
11:33<Rubidium>the distance is too large for you to hear me, unless you're in Nagasaki
11:34-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-65.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
11:34<Gonozal_VIII>don't forget your anti rad suit
11:35<Rubidium>nah, not needed, I fear more for the "rediation" when walking to the "meseum"
11:35*Yorick remembers "Sacro: ga met een poes spelen" from random quotes, I guess the one who said that will know :)
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11:48<Yorick>hmm...it appears that the client list window on a server has no name on it untill you get your mouse over it(redrawn?)
11:48<Yorick>also in unpatched
11:50*Yorick adds InvalidateWindow(WC_CLIENT_LIST, 0); to end of PACKET_CLIENT_JOIN
11:50-!-Zahl [~Zahl@p549F20CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
11:55<SpComb>SmatZ, Yorick: http://spbot2.marttila.de/
11:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12362 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r11985, r12006): Randomize variable 8F only once per callback 28.
11:57<Yorick>k
12:01-!-nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has joined #openttd
12:01<Yorick>http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs125&d=08113&f=screenshot_1862.png <-- first results
12:03<Gonozal_VIII>why is the server not the first in the list?
12:03<Yorick>because the screenshot isn't taken from the server
12:03<Yorick>I don't know how the sorting goes, but AFAIK, the current client is always first
12:03-!-raimar2 [~hawk@p5489B89A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:03<Yorick>or last...maybe
12:04-!-NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
12:04<Gonozal_VIII>hmm possible... i'm always hosting so i wouldn't know
12:06<Yorick>so you guys want me to have a change language displayed everywhere?
12:06<@peter1138>A what?
12:06<Yorick>a language change8
12:06<Yorick>**
12:06<Yorick>aww ^^
12:07-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
12:08<Yorick>"SetWidgetDisabledState, LoweredState, RaiseWindowWidget and a few other similar identifiers were removed. I don't really understand what they were replaced with though. Can anyone help please?"
12:08-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80CE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
12:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
12:08<Yorick>from Chrissicom
12:10-!-raimar3 [~hawk@p5489B4C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>Yorick: replaced by class members
12:13<Yorick>l
12:13<Eddi|zuHause3>like Widget::SetDisabledState or something
12:13<@Belugas>Window::, actually
12:13<Yorick>someone should post that in the chrisin topic
12:13<+glx>SetWidgetDisabledState(w, ...) => w->SetWidgetDisabledState(...)
12:14<+glx>or something like that
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12:15<Yorick>http://paste.openttd.org/988 <-- and, whatya think?
12:16<Gonozal_VIII>that function has a * in front... that's scary
12:17<Yorick>every function there has a *, so I thought I should just add one
12:17<Yorick>:)
12:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i still have no idea why you must reference languages by isocodes
12:18<Yorick>because not every language has a NETLANG_ entity
12:18<Yorick>or a flag
12:20<Eddi|zuHause3>and why is that an issue?
12:21<Yorick>why should I NOT reference languages by isocodes?
12:21-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:21<Eddi|zuHause3>because you need such a translation table
12:21<Eddi|zuHause3>which in the best case just adds redundancy
12:21<Yorick>and you wouldn't when using identd?
12:22<Yorick>names could change
12:22<Yorick>isocode is the only thing that is guaranteed to stay the same
12:22<Eddi|zuHause3>when there already is NETLANG_*, why introduce a new system?
12:23<Yorick>+check newgrf_text.cpp:97 before complaining to me
12:23<Yorick>how would you have done it then?
12:26<@Belugas>what a mess...
12:27<Sacro>what's the name of the game? can you feel it the way i do...
12:27<Yorick>Sacro: current topic: [17:01] <Yorick> http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs125&d=08113&f=screenshot_1862.png <-- first results
12:28<Sacro>buh?
12:28<Yorick>I'm not going to repeat again, just look at the screenshot of that patch
12:28<Yorick>Belugas: what's messy?
12:28<@Belugas>your patch is
12:29<Yorick>please be more specific :)
12:29<@Belugas>code duplication, repetitive use of a function while a var collecting the initial reuslt would ahev been better,
12:29<Eddi|zuHause3>you have code duplication
12:30<Yorick>true
12:30<@peter1138>that table shouldn't be in a header
12:30<@Belugas>taht too :)
12:30<Yorick>so where should it be?
12:31<@Belugas>and why not tackle the newgrf_text.cpp one, by the way... it wild have been way bettter
12:31<Yorick>because that doesnt give me NETLANG results
12:31<@Belugas>DUH!!!
12:31<Yorick>my table is veryy different
12:31<Yorick>{"fy_NL", NETLANG_DUTCH},
12:31<@Belugas>didn't meant USE IT AS SUCH
12:32<@Belugas>poor Yorick... lot to learn
12:32<Yorick>:'(
12:32<@peter1138>Alas, poor yorick. I knew him Horatio
12:32<Yorick>everyone should start somewhere
12:32<Sacro>peter1138: a man of infinate jest
12:32<@peter1138>defiantly
12:33<Yorick>but where is that repetitive use of a function while a var collecting the initial reuslt would ahev been better,?
12:33<@peter1138>Two loops doing the same thing?
12:33<Yorick>loops still need to be moved to one function
12:33<Sacro>peter1138: redundancy
12:34<@peter1138>No, I'm still employed.
12:34<Yorick>for (i=0; i < lengthof(iso_netlangs); i++) { is thwer
12:34<Yorick>is there twice*
12:34<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=87698
12:34<@peter1138>:o
12:35<Yorick>once for converting the server lang, (from which I think o f it, why not use the server_lang selected by the user?)
12:35<Yorick>ooh...nice GeekToo-patched thingy :)
12:36<Yorick>but it doesn't align to eachother correctly
12:39<@peter1138>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mjn6qyJvlU
12:39<@peter1138>:o
12:39<Gonozal_VIII>oh noes, jutub, kick!
12:39<Yorick>not anymore ;)
12:42<frosch123>it is hard to avoid that video these days
12:42-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
12:44<Yorick>I've made the whole table a local one :)
12:48<Yorick>but I still wonder how I'll send a changed language to the server
12:49<Yorick>server>clients isn't very hard ;)
12:49<Yorick>:)*
13:04-!-frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:06<@Belugas>Yorick: "if (strncmp(iso_netlangs[i].code, GetCurrentIsoCode(), strlen(iso_netlangs[i].code)) == 0) {"
13:06<@Belugas>GetCurrentIsoCode()
13:06<@Belugas>YURK!
13:07<Sacro>http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/8156/153121.aspx#153121
13:09<SmatZ>nice
13:09<@Belugas>Yorick, if i were you, i would add the netLangID to the iso_grf struct and on the iso_codes array of newgrf_text.cpp
13:09<@Belugas>it wold make a lot more sens
13:10<@Belugas>a second array based on very similar data is just ...
13:10<@Belugas>wrong
13:12<Noldo>SmatZ: hi, does "maybe it IS a good idea, but done wrong" mean you know a right way?
13:15<Yorick>but, the array on the iso_codes contains a few different things
13:16<Yorick>and if so, I think it should be placed somewhere else, strings.cpp?
13:16<SmatZ>Noldo: if it HAS to be object oriented... you can use static pointer of type ShipPf, pointing to ShipPf_something... but it would cause double memory access for one function call
13:16-!-fjb [~frank@p5485CCB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:17<fjb>Hello
13:17<Yorick>hello
13:17*SmatZ doesn't think OOP is a good idea here
13:17*SmatZ doesn't think OOP is good
13:17<SmatZ>:)
13:17<Noldo>:)
13:17<SmatZ>hello fjb
13:18<SmatZ>Noldo: allocating memory each time FindShipDepot() (without freeing it later:) is the best way to make game slower and memory hungry
13:18<Noldo>that's true
13:19-!-Nitro [~lol@ti541110a340-2198.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd
13:20<@Belugas>[13:15] <Yorick> but, the array on the iso_codes contains a few different things <-- like?
13:20<Noldo>I don't know how I forgot the freeing but that part is hardly in it's final form anyway
13:20<Yorick>hmm...maybe not, and about the second one/
13:21<@Belugas>[13:17] * SmatZ doesn't think OOP is good <--- I do not agree. It does server purpose when well designed
13:22<@Belugas>-r
13:22<SmatZ>Belugas: "delete vehicle;" causes all virtual function pointers of Vehicle:: to be overwritten by those used for Vehicle and InvalidVehicle
13:22<SmatZ>but I may be wrong
13:22-!-nycerine [~lol@ti541110a340-2809.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:26<fjb>Is it possible to have snow in temparete climate in r12345?
13:26<@Belugas>don't judge a concept by one wrong inmplementation, SmatZ :)
13:27<@Belugas>it is, fjb, but it will be inmplemented with quite a massive grf...
13:27<Yorick>@openttd commit 12345
13:27<@DorpsGek>Yorick: Commit by glx :: r12345 trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp (2008-03-05 22:05:22 UTC)
13:27<@DorpsGek>Yorick: -Fix [FS#1828](r12296): don't try to restore backupped timetable when timetabling is disabled
13:28<Yorick>fjb: probably not
13:28<Yorick>as you can see
13:28<+glx>Yorick: how is that related to the question?
13:28<ln->http://i30.tinypic.com/307u621.jpg
13:28-!-Barry [~chatzilla@bg1078138.hum.uva.nl] has joined #openttd
13:28<+glx>fjb: it's not possible indeed
13:29<@Belugas>not natively, that is
13:29<@Belugas>ho...
13:29<@Belugas>never miond...
13:29<@Belugas>not at all indeed,
13:29<SmatZ>ok
13:29<@Belugas>as there is no way to indicated snow line
13:29<Barry>good evening
13:29<@Belugas>but to replace all tiles by snow ones...
13:29<@Belugas>hey Barry
13:30<Barry>Belugas do you know if it is possible to decrease the size of a scenario file
13:32<@Belugas>well...
13:32<@Belugas>remove stuff from it,
13:32<@Belugas>like tonws,
13:32<@Belugas>industries
13:32<@Belugas>etc...
13:32<@Belugas>and i think making it flat as much as possible might.
13:32<@Belugas>too
13:32<Barry>Sorry i mean this size from 1024x1024 to 512x512
13:33<@Belugas>but that will only reduce the saved size
13:33<@Belugas>ho...
13:33<@Belugas>no
13:33<SmatZ>flatten in to water lavel
13:33<@Belugas>there is no way
13:33<SmatZ>*it, level
13:33*SmatZ should go back to coding :)
13:33*Belugas nods
13:33<Barry>Shit. I have a very nice scaneario of tThe Netherlands but is is too big
13:33<@Belugas>samo in here...
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13:34<fjb>Belugas: A grf like Alpine climate that disguises arctic as temparete?
13:34<@Belugas>exact fjb
13:34<@Belugas>but the other way around :)
13:34<@Belugas>Barry, i thuink there are a few netherlands scenario available on forums
13:34<@Belugas>maybe you do not need to start from scratch
13:35<Barry>I have found 2. 1 very nice but very big, other not so nice
13:36<Barry>Anyway the problem with that scenario is that when I move my mouse over a town the scrolling is going very slow. When I go over a small town scrolling is on normal speed
13:37-!-anhedral is now known as dih
13:38<SmatZ>Barry: rendering houses takes more time I guess
13:39<Barry>Anybody want to test the game if he has the same problem?
13:39<dih>:-)
13:39<dih>i dont ^^
13:39<SmatZ>why are people ignoring me :-/
13:39<@Belugas>and get fired? no thanks, i'll pass
13:40<dih>lol Belugas
13:40<SmatZ>I have the same feeling after reading http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36545 :-D
13:40<dih>hello by the way
13:40<dih>another one?
13:40<BrDead>Hey, I found a bug in Finnish translation, where should I contact? (Playing 0.5.3)
13:41<@Belugas>i know SmatZ :) You do not have a big flashy avatar :D
13:41<Gonozal_VIII>don't report 0.5.3 bugs...
13:41<@Belugas>hello dih
13:41<@Belugas>BrDead, try nightlies or beta. It might have already fixed
13:41<BrDead>ok
13:42*SmatZ is going to make a "big flashy avatar" :-)
13:43<@Belugas>the suggestion is not a stupid one, by the way... the many-industries-of-this-type, i mean
13:44<BrDead>Well, I prefelably play the version I have, don't have eagerness to update to beta. When the new version comes out, I'll see if it has already been corrected.
13:44-!-skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7761.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:44<skidd13>Hi folks
13:44<SmatZ>Belugas: there could be 3 buttons: "fund, prospect, prospect many"
13:45<dih>hello
13:46<Eddi|zuHause3>BrDead: ideally, you report bugs BEFORE the release
13:46<@Belugas>well... iirc, or iiuic, it was about scenario, not game play. So something to multiple randomly place many industries of same type
13:46<@Belugas>not in game play. would not make sens...
13:47<@Belugas>[13:45] <Eddi|zuHause3> BrDead: ideally, you report bugs BEFORE the release
13:47<@Belugas>[
13:47<@Belugas>yeah :)
13:47<@Belugas>so it takes longer for the release to be..
13:47<@Belugas>released :)
13:49<fjb>Never report bugs to get a faster release cycle.
13:49<dih>one keeps the bug reports until after the rlease of a .0
13:50<dih>nobody wants something like that, then at least one supports a sonner release of a minor version ^^
13:50-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499E931.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
13:53<Gonozal_VIII>people shouldn't be so afraid of the nightlies and betas
13:55-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A473D5.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:57<fjb>They don't bite, they only want to play.
13:58-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>^^
13:58<Nitro>airports are evil.
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>eeeeevil!
13:58<Nitro>Yes!
13:58<Gonozal_VIII>why?^^
13:59<Nitro>Well, whenever I build one, it gets super-popular and ends up with 1-6k with mailbags.
13:59<Nitro>it's impossible to keep up!
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>refit some planes to mail...
13:59<dih>how about refitting plains
13:59<dih>i beat you to it
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>did not
13:59<dih>did yes
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>[18:59:35] <Gonozal_VIII> refit some planes to mail...
13:59<Gonozal_VIII>[18:59:35] <dih> how about refitting plains
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>:P
14:00<dih>[18:59] <dih> how about refitting plains
14:00<dih>[18:59] <Gonozal_VIII> refit some planes to mail...
14:00<Nitro>Gonozal_VIII beat you dih. :P
14:00<Nitro>but it was a close match
14:00<dih>really
14:00<Yorick>hello dih
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>yay
14:00<ln->does anyone have an Optimus Keyboard yet?
14:00<Yorick>nope
14:00<Gonozal_VIII>does it transform?
14:00<Yorick>optimus maximus?
14:00<dih>the entire keyboard does Gonozal
14:00<Yorick>it changes keys
14:01<dih>so if you want to play ball - just press a button
14:01<dih>well - its a keyboard, so press a key
14:01<ln->~1400 euros is not a bad price for a keyboard, is it?
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>buttonboard
14:01<dih>lol
14:01<Gonozal_VIII>wtf
14:01<dih>buttonboard sounds like a rude nickname for a girl...
14:02<Nitro>._.
14:02<Sacro>lol
14:02<Yorick>http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs125&d=-8113&f=screenshot_1862,png <-- my current patch W.I.P. :)
14:02<Yorick>hmm...
14:03<Gonozal_VIII>http://www.ipaqrepair.co.uk/images/hw6500buttonboard.jpg
14:03<Yorick>try this one: ttp://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs125&d=08113&f=screenshot_1862.png
14:03<Yorick>+h
14:03<dih>nice one Yorick
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>nothing changed?
14:04<Gonozal_VIII>lame :P
14:05<Yorick>yes, in the background
14:05<Noldo>Yorick: can you make online translation based on those setting for the chat?
14:05<Gonozal_VIII>^^
14:05<Yorick>:D
14:06<Yorick>that will look kinda strange
14:06<Gonozal_VIII>because online translation works so very good
14:06-!-mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd
14:06<Yorick>and has absolutely no visible delays!
14:06<dih>now just make sure that people can only join servers markd with their lang or LANGUAGE_ANY ^^
14:07<+glx>silly :)
14:07<Yorick>so I can't join an english server :o
14:07-!-sickie88 is now known as SickieAway
14:07<Yorick>I'll just change my language :)
14:08<dih>na
14:08<dih>only if the server is not set to any ^^
14:08<dih>i think i'll set openttdcoop to NONE ^^
14:08<Yorick>some are
14:08<dih>lol
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14:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12363 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not allow building 'zero' road bits
14:11<Yorick>pfft
14:16<@peter1138>poft
14:16-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host88-236-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
14:16<Wolf01>hello
14:17<SmatZ>hello Wolf01
14:25<SmatZ>Wolf01: how is your "lego" project going?
14:25<Wolf01>almost freezed
14:25<@peter1138>:o
14:26<@peter1138>BRICKLAND
14:26<Wolf01>I need to organize some ideas to continue it
14:26<Wolf01>but I should go to buy some spare time first
14:27<SmatZ>:)
14:29*Belugas wishes a happy conclusion to the brickland project
14:30<Wolf01>it is playable, the terrain is almost finished
14:30<Wolf01>I'm trying to draw the rough land and the rocks
14:32-!-nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has left #openttd []
14:33<@Belugas>take your time, don't fall uncder the pressure... Good things take time :D
14:33<SmatZ>yes :)
14:33<@peter1138>Like death.
14:33-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46a96.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
14:33-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
14:33<SmatZ>:-x
14:34<Gonozal_VIII>bjarni!
14:34<@peter1138>And Bjarni?
14:34<SmatZ>hello Bjarni, the autoreplace dev! :-D
14:34<Prof_Frink>Good things come to those who get bored and wander off
14:34<dih>Bjarni!
14:34<dih>^^
14:34<SmatZ>peter1138: indeed
14:35<@Bjarni><SmatZ> hello Bjarni, the autoreplace dev! :-D <-- you need me to automatically replace the clients in this channel?
14:35<@Bjarni>I can start by getting rid of the unwanted stuff xD
14:35<SmatZ>:-D
14:36<@peter1138>Urgh, using a CRT after using LCDs for ages...
14:37<@peter1138>Sure, the colours and response are nicer... but it's CURVED
14:37<Yorick>Bjarni!
14:37<fjb>:-)
14:37<Eddi|zuHause3>i had a flat CRT
14:37<Prof_Frink>peter1138: Get a retina laser projector
14:38<fjb>Does nfo have a kind of nop opcode?
14:38<Prof_Frink>Or an optic nerve brainial implant
14:39-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:39*Belugas switches from LCD to CRT daily... never noticed it.. a bit like habit :)
14:39<@Belugas>fjb, yes it is action 0C ( i think )
14:40<@Belugas>yup
14:40<@Belugas>confirmed
14:40<@Belugas>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionC
14:40<@Belugas>Georges uses it a lot for commenting
14:40<fjb>Belugas: Found it. Thank you. I was to blind to see it.
14:41<@peter1138>My 'flat' CRT is too large, and, er, still curves a bit.
14:42<Eddi|zuHause3>well... switching from 16:10 to 4:3 disturbs me more...
14:45<@peter1138>I'm going to assume we're leaving FS#1264 in as a 'known limitation' for 0.6?
14:45*Belugas has a 19 inch CRT at home and 2 19inch LCD at work. Only missing the dual monitors, when at home
14:46<@peter1138>2 * 15" at work.
14:46<@peter1138>(LCD)
14:46<Eddi|zuHause3>i have 22" Widescreen LCD at home
14:47<Tefad>i have dual 19" CRT at home
14:47<Tefad>here.
14:47<+glx>my brother has a 22"
14:47<+glx>it's huge
14:47-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-65.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:47<SmatZ>I don't, and I don't really mind :)
14:47<@Belugas>my boss has a 42" LCD
14:47<@Belugas>man...
14:47<@Belugas>that's incredible
14:48<@peter1138>That's a telly.
14:48<+glx>very expensive
14:48*SmatZ talks something about money spent on LCD instead of wages....
14:48*orudge has a 22" 16:10 TFT, and a 17" 5:4 TFT
14:48<Prof_Frink>Belugas: 640x480?
14:48<@Belugas>he bough it because he does not have to use his glasses anymore :D
14:48-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-65.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
14:48<SmatZ>LCDs are rather cheap now...
14:49<@Belugas>FS#1264 seems like... "Won't Fix"
14:49<@orudge>CRTs are nigh on impossible to buy these days
14:49<@orudge>not that I have any desire for one, no room
14:49<SmatZ>Belugas: I hope "Will fix"
14:49<Eddi|zuHause3>FS#1264 sounds like "we need a sandbox to test commands"
14:49<@peter1138>Yes, it is.
14:50<SmatZ>:)
14:50-!-Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-127-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
14:50*peter1138 Jean-Michel Jarres...
14:51<+glx>-s IIRC
14:51<Patrick`>is a fraud!
14:51<@peter1138>No, I am Jean-Michael Jarreing...
14:52<+glx>ha
14:52<@peter1138>:D
14:52<@Belugas>hehe
14:54<SmatZ>mmm interesting music :)
14:54<+glx>oxygene, equinoxe, ...
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14:58<@peter1138>Chronologie
14:58<@Belugas>love is like oxygene
14:58<@Belugas>mmh...
14:58<@Belugas>not Jarre
14:59-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-65.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:59<@peter1138>Hmm?
15:00<|Jeroen|>polluted ?
15:01<fjb>How can I find out why a grf gets deaktivated? Is there a debugging option in OpenTTD?
15:01<@Belugas>Sweet, i think
15:01<Gonozal_VIII>burns everything?
15:01<+glx>fjb: usually it shows a message in the newgrf window
15:02<@peter1138>debug_level grf=255 :D
15:02<fjb>glx: It doesn't show any any usable information.
15:02<fjb>peter1138: Ok I will try that.
15:02<@peter1138>Maybe 255 isn't too useful... hehe
15:03<Yorick>grfs get deactivated because they deactivate themselves ;)
15:03<Yorick>what grf?
15:03<fjb>Self hacked grf. :-)
15:03<Yorick>then you deactivated it
15:04<fjb>But I don't know where. Don't know much nfo yet. So I must have done a mistake. So I need to debug it.
15:04<@peter1138>Hmm, FS#1832: Is 254 station parts per station enough?
15:05<Yorick>:o
15:05<Patrick`>nope.
15:05<@peter1138>Do you know what I'm talking about?
15:06<Yorick>probably, it is :)
15:06<SmatZ>"There is a reason. I just can't remember it any more." :)
15:07<Yorick>I think only different dirs need different parst
15:07<Noldo>the example station has 2?
15:07<Yorick>parts*
15:08<@peter1138>Noldo: in openttd it is merged to one part as they are the same type
15:08<@peter1138>this means "station part" is effectively "number of different types of custom station"
15:08<@peter1138>er
15:08<@peter1138>but worded correctly
15:09<@peter1138>If each built part is kept separate and not merged, then, for example, placing one of MB's buffer stops will use a part each.
15:09<fjb>level 255 gives a lot of output...
15:09<@peter1138>19:00 @peter1138> Maybe 255 isn't too useful... hehe
15:09<@peter1138> :)
15:09<fjb>:-)
15:10<@peter1138>I usually send it off to a text file.
15:10-!-Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:10<@peter1138>Argh, non-linear screen :(
15:10<@peter1138>The edges are bunched up compared to the edge...
15:11<@peter1138>Oh, there is a button to controller that
15:14<@peter1138>Oh 1024x768 @ 43Hz interlaced :o
15:14*peter1138 gouges out his eyes
15:14-!-SickieAway [~sickie@BSN-77-89-64.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:14<Patrick`>mmmm
15:14<Eddi|zuHause3>oh that sounds like fun ;)
15:15<SmatZ>:-)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i remember my ET4000 graphics card had a mode like that ;)
15:16<@peter1138>Was pretty standard back in the day...
15:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i never used interlaced...
15:16-!-LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]]
15:18*Belugas listens to his own music
15:18<@Belugas>too bad the mastering of the song failed due to not enough place on SD card :(
15:19<fjb>Skipping an action in stage 2. Does that mean OpenTTD doesn't know how to handle it and skips it?
15:20<@Belugas>or maybe it was ordered to jump it?
15:21<fjb>Hm, I suspect an endian issue again.
15:21<SmatZ>:(
15:24<@Belugas>non sens!
15:25<Eddi|zuHause3>nonstop!
15:26<Eddi|zuHause3>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAM2KTGNeE
15:29<@Bjarni>that's linguistic harassment
15:31<Eddi|zuHause3>it's one of THE classic sketches in german TV history
15:32<@Bjarni>heh
15:33<@Bjarni>well it's completely natural to ask for french fries in a prison
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3>well, that's not the joke...
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3>he asks for a *bottle* of fries ;)
15:33<hylje>and a bowl of beer
15:34<fjb>Testing if it is OpenTTD and then skipping the next 5 sprites is "09 9D 04 \7= 01 00 00 00 05" ?
15:35-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499E931.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:36*peter1138 ponders a mixed-solution to FS#1832: allocate a new part until it the limit is reached, then start merging pieces.
15:36<@Bjarni>yeah
15:36<@Bjarni>that too :)
15:36<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un5UbyGRf-o <-- German shortcut o_O
15:38<fjb>Can I skip over other action 09s? Or does someting evel happen then?
15:39<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it's not really a subway... it's a tram tunnel
15:39<Eddi|zuHause3>and the song is awesome ;)
15:40<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, and it is in austria ;)
15:40<@Bjarni>ohh
15:40<@Bjarni>that explains everything
15:40<@Bjarni>but how do you know?
15:40<Eddi|zuHause3>it says "Linz"?
15:40<@Bjarni>...
15:41<Eddi|zuHause3>it is well known that Linz is one of the biggest cities of austria
15:41<@Bjarni>I didn't really pay attention and read it as the railroad factory named something like that (they are named Lint or something)
15:44<ln->Bjarni!
15:46<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Nx-XzIWU0 <--- I wondered about what to say about this one but I think I will just say "somewhere in Germany" ;)
15:48<Eddi|zuHause3>well, technically, the red light should be enough to "secure" the crossing
15:49<ln->wtf was the point of that video?
15:49<@Bjarni>it is to show what to expect in Germany
15:50<ln->Bjarni: you should visit irl and not through youtube.
15:50<@Bjarni>but... no flashing lights???
15:51<@Bjarni>are you saying that I should go to Germany?
15:51<@Bjarni>why? :)
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>the rules say, if a crossing is broken, the train has to stop in front of it, secure the crossing manually, and then start again
15:54<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: in rear of it
15:55<Eddi|zuHause3>no, the german rules say "vor", not "hinter"
15:55<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: it's the same here. There is an exception though. If *anything* on the crossing started then it's broken (not just failure to activate) and any attempts to start it should be skipped
15:55<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: english rules use "in rear of" and "in advance of"
15:55<Sacro>"in front of" is ambiguous
15:55-!-sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has joined #openttd
15:56<Sacro>if you are in front of the crossing then surely you have it backwards
15:56<@Bjarni>one of the very few times I went out with the video camera to record a train happened to be the only time I have seen a working crossing failing to activate o_O
15:56-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5B640.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
15:56<Sacro>as the crossing is in front of you
15:56<@peter1138>"in rear of" makes no sense in English
15:56-!-Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-242-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:57<@peter1138>"behind" maybe :p
15:57<@Bjarni>Sacro activates on "behind" and "in rear".... go figure :P
15:57<Eddi|zuHause3>but if i stop "behind" a crossing, i have already passed it...
15:58<Sacro>no you haven't
15:58<Sacro>you are behind it
15:58<Sacro>if you are behind another train it is ahead of you
15:58<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: "secure" the crossing does not mean "start the bars going down"... more like "put someone with a red flag on the road"
15:59<Eddi|zuHause3>just that a train is ahead of me, does not mean i am behind it
16:01<Yorick>Belugas: is SetCurrentGrfLangID always called when loading openttd?
16:01<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: that would need one guy to with a flag AND one to drive the train, hence doubling the needed amount of staff
16:01<@Bjarni>sometimes you simply can't do that when you are out there in the real world
16:02<@Belugas>Yorick, i wold be very surprised if it does not
16:02<@Bjarni>but yes I have been on the road stopping traffic more than once
16:02<@Belugas>Yorick but... why don't you test it??
16:02<@Belugas>yuo'll sure than
16:03<Yorick>hmm...another problem, ENABLE_NETWORK
16:03<@Bjarni>one of the times were planned though because it was on a siding where the crossing had no warning systems at all
16:03<@Bjarni>(those are rare)
16:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12364 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt: -Fix (r12361): Case attribute for brazilian_portuguese got lost.
16:03<Yorick>when I add all of the netlangs to that newgrf_text.cpp, there is a problem when network disabled
16:04<@Belugas>"when I add all of the netlangs" ???? WHAT ????
16:04<Yorick>{"en_US", GRFLX_AMERICAN, NETLANG_ENGLISH},
16:05<@Belugas>ok...
16:05<@Belugas>and " there is a problem when network disabled" ???
16:05<Yorick>#ifdef ENABLE_NETWORK
16:06<@Belugas>ha...
16:06<@Belugas>good point
16:06<@Belugas>was not aware of that one
16:06<Yorick>which basically means having to state the same array twice again ;_
16:06<@Belugas>welll than, maybe that def could be removed?
16:06<Yorick>?!
16:07<Yorick>you mean always executing the NETLANG_* enum?
16:07<@peter1138>Executing an enum?
16:07<@Belugas>executing???
16:07<Yorick>...
16:07<Yorick>you get what I mean, don't you?
16:07<fjb>Yeah execute it by shooting it.
16:07*Belugas thinks Yorick has OR a communication problem, OR does strange and useless things
16:07<Yorick>always defining an enum
16:08<Yorick>:)
16:08*Yorick has both
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16:09<Yorick>but if I do that, you probably go complaining about that one
16:10-!-keyweed_ [~Dennis@home.keyweed.com] has joined #openttd
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16:13*Belugas thinks, for some reasons, of a led zep song, "Communications BreakDown"...
16:15<Yorick>changing language files basically means recompiling everything :(
16:15<Eddi|zuHause3>only if you change english.txt ;)
16:16<Eddi|zuHause3>you can freely edit the others ;)
16:17-!-keyweed [~Dennis@home.keyweed.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:18<@peter1138># we are observing your earth
16:18<Eddi|zuHause3>"song of the british government"?
16:19<@peter1138>Quite.
16:26<ln->Bjarni: Where can I download OTTD for the iPhone?
16:26<ln->Not that I have an iPhone, I just want to download it.
16:26<hylje>ottd needs a pluggable UI :-)
16:27<Yorick>go make one ;)
16:27*SmatZ didn't know iPhone had a screen :-x
16:28<SmatZ>usable screen :)
16:28<ln->SmatZ: OTTD doesn't need a screen.
16:28<SmatZ>ah... do you want to host a game for other people? :)
16:28<ln->Yeah.
16:28<SmatZ>interesting idea
16:28<ln->And no.
16:29<ln->But still it's possible. :)
16:29<SmatZ>:)
16:29<Nuhru>hi ln-
16:30<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: Where can I download OTTD for the iPhone? <-- google it
16:30<@Bjarni><ln-> Not that I have an iPhone, I just want to download it. <-- AFAIK it works on iPod touch as well
16:31<ln->oh, the port exists.
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16:33<@Bjarni>yeah
16:33<@Bjarni>but I think you need to hack your device to install it
16:34<Yorick>ok, thats it for today
16:34<@Bjarni>but maybe it can be made to work on unhacked devices with Apple's SDK
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16:37<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... very suspect... the file says "ati driver 8.3" but the installation window says "ati driver 8.471"
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17:13<Wolf01>http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1203890447321ny0.jpg :O
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17:35<fjb>Where does OpenTTD set variable 9D? I don't find it in the source.
17:37<@peter1138>newgrf.cpp:3538
17:39<fjb>Thank you.
17:44<fjb>Then I have to emulate 8B and 8D.
17:44<@peter1138>Hmm?
17:45<+glx>for which feature?
17:45<fjb>I want to disguise OpenTTD as TTDP.
17:46<+glx>like we do in GetGlobalVariable() ?
17:47<fjb>Oh, you do? I have to look at that. I want to make a GRF to believe it is interpreted by TTDP.
17:48<Wolf01>'night
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17:49<+glx>ottd is ttdp 2.6.1 r1382 IIRC
17:49<@peter1138>fjb, CanSet isn't that good ;)
17:50<fjb>peter1138: I don't care. Hacking is the fun, not the set. I even dislike american sets. :-)
17:51<@peter1138>It worked for me by just altering the openttd check
17:51<fjb>So it looks like I only have to change line 3539.
17:51<@peter1138>But beware; openttdw.grf won't load then.
17:52<fjb>What is missing then?
17:54<fjb>The easy way would be to change Camset. But that is forbidden even for personal use.
17:56<@peter1138>so make the change in openttd
17:56<@peter1138>dependent on grf id or something liek that
17:57<@peter1138>it's before the action 8
17:57<@peter1138>so you might need to compare the filename
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18:00<fjb>:-) That sounds good. I must be really bored to do that. But on the other hand it is really bad weather outside.
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... i shall go and mess up my system now...
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>brb... (i hope)
18:01<fjb>Don't we always do that? :-)
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18:07<fjb>Basing it on the filename could be a feature. You could enable disguising if the filename contains "disguise".
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>hey, it actually booted ;)
18:07<fjb>Hi Eddi|zuHause, welcome back. :-)
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm... but xv doesn't work...
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18:10<fjb>That is bad news.
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18:26<fjb>Hm, we have dos_to_win_colour_map. Why is it not possible to mix DOS and Windows GRFs then?
18:27<@peter1138>It is, if somebody writes it.
18:27<fjb>What is missing? Detecting what kind the GRF is?
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>there needs to be a palette detection
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18:28<@peter1138>If you assume all NewGRFs are with the Windows palette then it's simple enough.
18:28<fjb>But you can't asume that...
18:28<@peter1138>Otherwise, good luck guessing...
18:28<@peter1138>You can if you tell everyone they have to use the Windows NewGRFs.
18:29<@peter1138>Useful for MP too, heh...
18:29<fjb>How about guessing with a fallback believing it is a Windows GRF?
18:29<@peter1138>Indeed, but still, good luck guessing.
18:30<fjb>Really useful for MP. You get buy the DOS Version of TTD, but it is almost impossible to buy the Windows version today.
18:30<fjb>can, not get
18:31<@peter1138>I bought it on eBay.
18:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76419.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
18:32<fjb>I bought it on ebay too. It was advertised as the Windows version, but came out as the DOS version.
18:33<@peter1138>You woz robbed
18:33<@peter1138>I got the Tycoon Collection set.
18:34<fjb>I didn't find that.
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18:34<fjb>The Windows palette is documented here: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=PalettesAndCoordinates
18:34<fjb>Is the DOS palette documented anywhere?
18:37<@peter1138>Probably. You can just reverse MapDOSColour() though.
18:37<+glx>grfcodec -d trg1.grrf
18:37<+glx>open the pcx ans check the palette
18:37<+glx>*and
18:38<fjb>Hm, yes, esay to get the palette that way. Why didn't I think about that?
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19:21<fjb>Oh, vehicles with a weight of more than 1024 tons are not supported. :-)
19:22<SmatZ>that's a serious design flaw :)
19:23<fjb>Oh, that aplies only to rail vehicles.
19:24<fjb>Would be a flaw if it would apply to ships. But ships have no size. And a heavy ship without any size would probably sink.
19:24<SmatZ>:D
19:25<fjb>Hm, TTD ships have to weight nothing to be able to float.
19:26<Patrick`>hmm
19:26<Patrick`>that limit is for the sake of saving memory, I assume
19:26<Patrick`>let's say you're EXTREME
19:26<Patrick`>and have 1000 trains
19:27<Patrick`>that's a whole extra 1000 bytes to use a regular old int for the mass
19:28<fjb>I don't see that. You already need two bytes fot a weight up to 1024 tons.
19:28<@peter1138>No, it's just an arbitrary limit.
19:28<fjb>It is just a funny limit.
19:29<@peter1138>Still, a 1024 tonne rail vehicle is pretty heavy.
19:29<fjb>Would giving ships a size break too much of the TTD feeling?
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19:30<@peter1138>By giving them "size" do you mean giving them bounding boxes so they can collide?
19:30<fjb>Yes 1024 tons are much. I don't know if rail vehicles with that weight do exist.
19:30<fjb>peter1138: Yes.
19:30<fjb>And so the don't pile up at one tile at the harbour.
19:30<@peter1138>I believe that's a feature on the wish-lists...
19:31<@peter1138>So go ahead ;)
19:31<@peter1138>Turn on-and-offable, maybe.
19:31<fjb>It is definitely on my wish list. But would the people accept it?
19:31<@peter1138>Actually directly specifying a bounding box might be useful as ships can be rather varied.
19:32<@peter1138>However
19:32*peter1138 -> sleep
19:32<fjb>It should be grfsettable., like other vehicles already do.
19:32<fjb>Good night peter1138
19:35<Patrick`>john carmack posting on slashdot
19:36<dih>night
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19:48*fjb not posting on slashdot.
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21:27<paulsen>Im having a very hard time getting presignals to work on a 8-track station, is anyone here aviable to take a look? I have a screenshot
21:28<Sacro>if you post the screenshot people will look
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21:28<paulsen>ok, two seconds.. have to convert it
21:29<Sacro>errr
21:29<Sacro>why?
21:29<Sacro>there should be no conversion needed
21:29<Sacro>oh god don't convert it
21:29<paulsen>but its bmp :(
21:29<paulsen>http://coldforged.no/~erik/presignal.jpg
21:30<Sacro>ARGH GOD NO
21:30<Sacro>DO
21:30<Sacro>NOT
21:30<Sacro>CONVERT
21:30<Sacro>IT
21:30<Sacro>TO
21:30<Sacro>JPEG
21:31<paulsen>http://coldforged.no/~erik/presignal.png
21:31<Sacro>that's bearable
21:31<paulsen>thats the default that openttd took
21:31<Sacro>yes
21:32<Sacro>Belugas: please make the default image save format png
21:32<Sacro>hmmm, presigs look fine
21:32<Sacro>cept that train is waiting at the combo
21:32<paulsen>every train stops at that combo
21:32<paulsen>they refuse to take the path to the left
21:32<Sacro>except 32 has no path
21:32<Sacro>so he'll just kind of wander aimlessly
21:32<paulsen>oh
21:32<paulsen>none of the trains have paths defined
21:32<Sacro>and there is only one statoin
21:32<paulsen>since this was just a test
21:32<Sacro>so they'll all just wander about
21:33<paulsen>ok, ill add another station and do pathing
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21:35<paulsen>that fixed it
21:35<paulsen>didnt know that presignaling relied on paths :( thanks for the help
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21:36<Sacro>yeah it does
21:36<Sacro>well no
21:37<Sacro>trains that aren't due to stop at a station will attempt to avoid it
21:37<Sacro>ie use the highest line possible
21:37<paulsen>aha
21:37<paulsen>that would explain why they are using the slowest entry to the station
21:37<Sacro>yeh
21:38<paulsen>thats actually a nice feature if you want certain trains to bypass a station
21:38<Sacro>yup
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22:12<@Belugas>[21:31] <Sacro> Belugas: please make the default image save format png <-- watdiasay?
22:13<Sacro>Belugas: buh?
22:13<Sacro>Belugas: please :)
22:14-!-De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14<@Belugas>hem....
22:14<@Belugas>what did you said?
22:15<@Belugas>default format for saving screenshots in png?
22:15<@Belugas>is it what i should have decoded?
22:16<Sacro>Belugas: the default save format for images should be png please :)
22:16-!-De_Ghosty [~s@cpe0050ba8caf2c-cm0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
22:16<Sacro>it'll stop people sving as bmp and then converting to jpeg
22:17*Belugas is buzy shopping at http://us.factory.lego.com/PAB/default.aspx
22:17<@Belugas>but...
22:17<@Belugas>might consider the request for post 0.6 commits
22:18<Sacro>"Hi! Please be aware that the following pages contain pricing information "
22:18<Sacro>wtf
22:18<Sacro>Belugas: what be you buying?
22:20<@Belugas>different pieces
22:21<@Belugas>there is that train that Purno (think it's him) assembled for brickland
22:21<@Belugas>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=34145
22:21<Sacro>http://www.b3tards.com/u/39f34ea70f437e003194/stairs.jpg
22:21<@Belugas>and we're building it, my son and i
22:21<Sacro>ahh
22:21<Sacro>i love ldraw
22:21<Sacro>though that train can't steer
22:21<@Belugas>steer?
22:22<@Belugas>dico...
22:22<Sacro>also, i'd use a 4X8 as the roof
22:22<Sacro>rather than 2x2X8
22:22<@Belugas>well.. we improvise a bit anyway :)
22:22<Sacro>heh
22:24<stevenh>that train is cool
22:24<stevenh>and wtf to the "pricing information"
22:25<@Belugas>hey stevenh :)
22:25<Sacro>stevenh: some people are scared by prices
22:25<@Belugas>well... you have to be aware that the stuff is not free, maybe?
22:26<stevenh>it's just the result of another stupid US lawsuit
22:27<@Belugas>could very well be :)
22:31<@Belugas>11$ already :(
22:31<@Belugas>costly
22:33<Sacro>ooh
22:33<Sacro>buy a bulk box
22:33<@Belugas>won't have all that i need :(
22:34<stevenh>will it be electric?
22:35<@Belugas>at 30$ the motor? naaa...
22:35<@Belugas>not for a 4 year old...
22:35<@Belugas>when he'll be 7 or 8, sure. not now
22:36<@Belugas>he's already too spoiled ;)
22:44<@Belugas>whouuu :) it compiles :D
22:49<stevenh>are you resizing windows?
22:50<stevenh>i was thinking of bringing the connect-stations patch... have a gui pop-up when to ctrl-build a station to allow you to remotely join them, etc...
22:50<stevenh>it's extremely handy
22:55<@Belugas>resizing window? naaa... not really... i've got something more fun to compile :D
22:55<@Belugas>connect-stations patch... unknown to me.
22:55<@Belugas>looks like fun, though :)
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22:59<Sacro>ahh
22:59<Sacro>almost done peggle
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23:13<nicfer>I have an idea for a cargo (similar to waste): .....
23:13<nicfer>ET cartridges!
23:16<nicfer>hey, why not name the toyland's waste 'ET cartridges'?
23:16<@Belugas>well... let me see...
23:16<@Belugas>why not?
23:16<@Belugas>you can do it!
23:16<@Belugas>it's all faisable with thehelp of newgrf :D
23:17<@Belugas>don't even need to write a damn patch !!
23:18<DaleStan>Belugas: Have you had a chance to look at/think about my proposed CB37 system that George wanted?
23:19<Sacro>ooh
23:19<Sacro>gnome 2.22 out
23:19*Sacro wonders what kind of development environment DaleStan uses... something hardcore no doubt
23:20<DaleStan>Development enviroment? What's that? (MSVC and metapad as text editors, Cygwin to compile.)
23:20<Sacro>Ah, windows based
23:27<@Belugas>I did, DaleStan
23:27<@Belugas>and i still do not know what to think of it, to be honest
23:29<Sacro>right, bedtime
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23:29<Sacro>night all
23:29<DaleStan>I think it works. I also think it's an exercise in horribly obfuscated interfacing. Which is to be avoided if there's any other way to do it.
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23:31<@Belugas>horribly obfuscated, that i do agree :D
23:32<@Belugas>as to other ways, there might be. I remember we discussed it, peter, glx and I
23:32<@Belugas>i think we came up with something, but sdly i forgot to note it
23:32<@Belugas>i will dig my logs on that matter
23:32<DaleStan>I considered saying "GRFs may fill the low word in the of register 100h with any one value to be added to the textrefstack", but then there has to be a reserved value in 100, or some other way of indicating that the GRF's text will consume that word.
23:32<DaleStan>Plus, in most cases, it's unnecessarily restrictive. -- In only one of 13 different cases is less than a doubleword available.
23:33-!-gfldex [~dex@dslb-088-074-190-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
23:35<DaleStan>(A doubleword per cargo, that is.)
23:38<@Belugas>is it me or the signal selection gui should have some better centered semaphore sprites ??
23:38<@Belugas>i see, DaleStan
23:40<@Belugas>i'm re-reading the conversation you had with george and my head still hurts...
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23:42<@Belugas>in the mean time, i have completed the todo i imposed on myself :D
23:43<DaleStan>Patch's signal selection gui? They are centered, the sprites are just lopsided. Which way they're lopsided depends on at least one of the selected road traffic side and the setting of the signalsontrafficside switch.
23:45-!-glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye]
23:45<@Belugas>no, sorry, i meant in Open
23:46<@Belugas>lopsided?
23:46<@Belugas>dico...
23:46<@Belugas>ho...
23:46<@Belugas>ok
23:46<@Belugas>got it
23:46<@Belugas>mmh...
23:47<@Belugas>granted
23:53<@Belugas>oh fuck...
23:53<@Belugas>way too late to go on
23:54<@Belugas>night all
23:58<stevenh>night.
---Logclosed Thu Mar 13 00:00:19 2008