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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-03-26

---Logopened Wed Mar 26 00:00:11 2008
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02:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12423 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (15 files): [NoAI] -Change: bring a little more uniformness into the first few lines of the API related files (add missing /* $Id$ */ and such).
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06:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12424 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: new sprites needed for the OSK.
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06:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12425 /trunk/ (21 files in 7 dirs): -Feature [FS#1846]: On Screen Keyboard for input fields so someone without a keyboard can enter text too. Patch by Dominik.
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06:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12426 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp network/network_gui.cpp): -Cleanup: sprinkle some coding style over a few files.
06:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12427 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [Squirrel] -Fix: silence some GCC 4.3 compile warnings.
06:55-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd
06:55<Celestar>heyo
06:56<Celestar>@openttd bugs
06:56<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 12; Opened this week: 8
06:56<Rubidium>'lo
06:56<Celestar>only 18. not bad at all :)
06:56<Celestar>heyo Rubidium
06:56<Rubidium>http://www.openttd.org/server_detail.php?id=17 <- Interesting server ;)
06:57<Celestar>lol
06:57<Celestar>you think I should shut it down?
06:57<Rubidium>it's currently the one with the lowest revision; probably also the one that's the longest online and unused
06:58<Rubidium>so yes!
06:58<Celestar>server gone ;)
06:58<Celestar>hm
06:58<Celestar>why is it still listed? :P
06:59<Rubidium>udp packet didn't come through
06:59<Celestar>maybe the "kill" might have something to do with it? :P
06:59<Rubidium>so it'll 'time out' within 5 minutes
07:00<Rubidium>could very well be the case
07:00<Celestar>like kill -9
07:00<Rubidium>now it's a goner
07:03<Celestar>good :>
07:03<Celestar>how's NoAI doing?
07:04<Rubidium>don't know exactly myself; just started doing some coding related stuff again after two months doing absolutely nothing
07:04<Celestar>hehe
07:04<Celestar>ok
07:04<Celestar>who's at the helm of 0.6 btw?
07:04<Celestar>Belugas?
07:04<Rubidium>good question
07:05*Celestar wonders what showstoppers we have for 0.6 left
07:05<Celestar>PutWordsInCorrectOrder();
07:06<Rubidium>there isn't a big no-go on the bugtracker at the moment
07:06<Rubidium>but then again, there were quite a lot of changes since beta5, so we'll just release a rc1 and hope it's the last one
07:06<Celestar>anything to fix till then?
07:07<Rubidium>Belugas was on the changelog and such, don't know how far he's with that though
07:07<Celestar>The only "Medium" bug is 1832 and still am a newgrf n00b
07:07<Rubidium>well, the severity is usually not touched
07:08<Rubidium>and in this case I've got no idea about the bug either, so I'm not touching it
07:08*Celestar goes checking 1852
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07:49<Dominik>is someone who goes by the name of Tb2571989 in the Wiki here?
07:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12428 /trunk/src/osk_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1878]: loading from the config file could fail even when the data is correct. Patch by Dominik.
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08:28<ln>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7313878.stm
08:30<Celestar>@openttd bugs
08:30<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 13; Opened this week: 9
08:31-!-SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
08:31<Celestar>On Screen Keyboard?
08:31<Celestar>ah for PSP and PDAs?
08:32<mrfrenzy>has anyone tried the symbian port? You need a needle to hit the small buttons and a magnifying glass to see the text...
08:34<Dominik>Celestar: and for the Nintendo DS :)
08:34<@peter1138>Just get some better eyes.
08:34<Celestar>morning peter1138
08:34<@peter1138>Hi :)
08:34*peter1138 ponders the SDLmixer patch, now that 0.6 is branched
08:35*Dominik cheers
08:38<Celestar>peter1138: what does it do?
08:39<@peter1138>Extends the music/sound drivers to include mixing, so that a driver doesn't have to use the builtin software mixer.
08:39<@peter1138>Then it adds an SDL_mixer driver.
08:39<Gekz>I had OpenTTD on my Palm TX
08:39<Gekz>then the guy stopped maintaining it
08:39<Gekz>it was 0.4 svn
08:39<@peter1138>The other drivers just inherit from a software mixer driver.
08:40<Celestar>I see
08:40<Dominik>once that patch is live my nds port diff will be a lot smaller :)
08:41<Celestar>we have an NDS port?
08:41<Gekz>NDS port? coolzor
08:41<Dominik>not in svn yet, but yeah
08:41<Gekz>flashcart and such required?
08:41<Dominik>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Nintendo_DS#Screenshots
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08:42<Dominik>Gekz: yes, otherwise there's no way to get code on the DS
08:42<Celestar>256*128
08:42<Celestar>what's the amount of memory in the DS?
08:43<Gekz>Dominik: how much did it cost
08:43<Dominik>Celestar: this should answer your question: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Portable_device_version
08:43<Celestar>thanks
08:43<Dominik>Gekz: you mean flashcarts for the DS? you can get them for 25-40 US$
08:44<Gekz>Dominik: Buy me one xD
08:44<Gekz>seriously, ebay fails -_-
08:44<Dominik>ebay doesn't list them but any decent online shop will have them. even amazon.com
08:45<Gekz>I'm in Australia
08:45<Gekz>I dont really have access to Amazon or anything remotely useful or of competitive price
08:46<Dominik>i ordered mine here. they're shipping from HongKong to anywhere in the world: http://www.dealextreme.com/
08:46<mrfrenzy>dealextreme are nice
08:46<Dominik>no shipping charges btw ^^
08:47<Gekz>:o
08:48<Gekz>Dominik: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11457
08:48<Gekz>you buoght that?
08:49<Gekz>http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11811
08:49<Gekz>that I suppose
08:49<Dominik>no, i've got an R4DS. but they are out of stock now.
08:49<Dominik>but any of those will do
08:51<Dominik>maybe the N5 is the sucessor of the R4. it seems they have similar firmware.
08:52<Gekz>alright
08:52<Gekz>brb
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09:31<ln>http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1206537426487.jpg
09:32<SmatZ>:)
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09:35<Celestar>ln: the U.S.S. Enterprise, no doubt
09:35<keyweed_>depends, which version is it
09:35<Celestar>-D
09:35<keyweed_>then it's the enterprise.
09:36<Celestar>considering the Star Destroyer has onboard lasers with a range of around 10km and sensors for 100km, yes.
09:36<keyweed_>ancient crap
09:36<Celestar>:P
09:37<Celestar>A Photon Torpedoe has a range of 10 light seconds ;)
09:37-!-llugo [lugo@p4FD5FB4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:37<keyweed_>makes you wonder what the star wars scientists has been doing the last few centuries
09:38<keyweed_>sure, light sabres look impressive but they're not much use against orbital bombardment
09:38<@Belugas>those are miniature...
09:38<@Belugas>so none of them :P
09:40<keyweed_>actually, they have this Genesis torpedo from one of the movies, why doesn't the federation just attack all their enemies with that.
09:40<keyweed_>looked rather unbeatable
09:40<keyweed_>and leaves colonisable planets behind
09:40<peterbrett>keyweed_: They probably think it's "unethical"
09:41<@Belugas>naaa.... it is just unrealistic
09:41<keyweed_>peterbrett: letting the borg destroy earth is ethical?
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09:45<Celestar>keyweed_: The Borg didn't do a good job, did they?
09:45<keyweed_>Celestar: no, but it was to close for comfort
09:46<keyweed_>something else worries me, how can an emperial destroyer avoid hitting things if it can only has a scanning range of 100 km
09:46<keyweed_>*imperial
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09:46<Celestar>keyweed_: it doesn't :P
09:47<keyweed_>it can't fire at enemies, can't see what it's about to fly into
09:47<keyweed_>worthless piece of crap
09:48<Celestar>^^
09:48<Rubidium>it's probably build robust enough so it can fly through ships and such
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09:48<@peter1138>ln, i guess the caption is right :o
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09:49<yorick>hello glx
09:50<yorick>I'm updating the FICL patch, bitwise stuff inclusive
09:52<yorick>but I guess I should only use numbers that are 2^*?
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09:57<yorick>one would like a close button on the OSK
09:59<Rubidium>and then 50% would complain that it does "the wrong thing"
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10:00<yorick>where can I configure the thing?
10:01<Rubidium>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Keyboard
10:02<@peter1138>documentation :D
10:02<yorick>is there a GUI for it?
10:02<yorick>>:)
10:03<Rubidium>notepad, wordpad, kate, mousepad, gvim, ...
10:04<yorick>...
10:06<yorick>doesn't the sign window have a close button aswell
10:07<yorick>with OK and cancel buttons?
10:07<yorick>I would also like to be able to disable it completely
10:07<Rubidium>why?
10:08<Rubidium>you do not have to click the textbox to type
10:08<yorick>1.it takes up precious pixels 2. I have a normal keyboard
10:08<@peter1138>don't bring it up then
10:08<yorick>huh?
10:09<Rubidium>just make sure the window where the textbox is in is active, which it is by default
10:09<Rubidium>unless you first click another window
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10:14<yorick>hmm
10:16<yorick>if (HasBit(changetype, NETWORK_CHANGETYPE_NICK)) {, NETWORK_CHANGETYPE_NICK = 1, NETWORK_CHANGETYPE_ALL = NETWORK_CHANGETYPE_NICK | NETWORK_CHANGETYPE_LANGUAGE,NETWORK_CHANGETYPE_LANGUAGE = 2, send_uint8(NETWORK_CHANGETYPE_NICK)
10:16<yorick>and it fails to check with that
10:17<SmatZ>yorick: HasBit uses bit index, use '0' or HASBITS
10:17<SmatZ>or simple &
10:18<Rubidium>it doesn't even look like something parseable by me
10:18<yorick>true
10:18<yorick>it's copied from different locations
10:19<yorick>:o thanks SmatZ
10:24<yorick>wasn't it DaleStan who said something about features stuffed in your face?
10:24<yorick>I think the OSK is one of those if you can't even disable it
10:24<Dominik>you have to enable it by clicking on it
10:25<yorick>but it is there before you've clicked on it
10:25<Dominik>no, it only appears when you click on the editbox
10:25<SmatZ>you can't disable trams, drive-through road stops, more airports, newgrfs... but you do not have to use it :)
10:25<yorick>I just want the possibility of having the old editboxes back
10:26<yorick>SmatZ: they don't have a seperate window or you have to enable a grf for it
10:26<SmatZ>rail conversion
10:26<Dominik>did you even compile latest svn before complaining?
10:26<yorick>yes
10:26<Dominik>everything is as it used to be, unless you click on the black editbox
10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12429 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_event_types.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: CloneCrashedVehicle isn't implemented yet, so mark it as such
10:27<yorick>yes, but when I do that, a whole new window appears
10:27<Dominik>correct
10:27<yorick>while a new patch option on the interface tab would have been just fine
10:28<yorick>I don't need ugly grey windows with a whole keyboard in my sight just to type...
10:28<SmatZ>yorick: why are you clicking on the editbox anyway?
10:28<Dominik>and when i click on the Newgrf menu a whole new window opens even though i don't ever use newgrfs
10:28<yorick>because I need to edit it ;)
10:28<SmatZ>editbox is active once it is open
10:28<SmatZ>just type
10:28<yorick>but then you have to drag over a whole menu, and such
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10:29<Dominik>in OpenTTD only one editbox has focus at one time. there's no need to click on them
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10:30<Dominik>but i did think about making them clickable for non-osk users. in that case the cursor should jump to the location clicked
10:30<yorick>yes
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10:31<yorick>hmm...I might merge PACKET_CLIENT_SET_PASSWORD into PACKET_CLIENT_SET_INFO aswell
10:32<Dominik>but that's not how it used to be. in TTD the editboxes have never been clickable in any way
10:32<Dominik>anyway, i gotta go. my GF is waiting at the cinema. cya all
10:32<SmatZ>bye Dominik
10:32<yorick>k, bye
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10:48<yorick>hi dih
10:50-!-dih is now known as anhedral
10:50<yorick>bye dih ^^
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11:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12430 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: safeguard, don't allow AI_Event calls to players that are not AIs
11:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12431 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIEventSubsidiaryOffer, which keeps you informed about new Subsidiaries
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12432 /branches/0.6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [0.6] -Change: Update documentation for release of RC1
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11:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12433 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_event_types.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12431: cast values to avoid warnings (tnx glx)
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11:38<Sacro>:o doubleslip penalties! :D
11:39<@peter1138>What?
11:39<Sacro>new YAPF
11:39<Sacro>err
11:39<Sacro>YAPP
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11:54<Ammler>will that problem with including newindustries after mapgeneration be fixed for release 0.6 ?
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11:56<Rubidium>uhm... no?
11:56<Eddi|zuHause3>i kinda doubt that
11:56<+glx>the don't change grfs in running game thing?
11:56<Rubidium>isn't it said that changing newgrfs during games isn't supported and can only be used as it is now?
11:56<Ammler>glx: no
11:57<Ammler>if you take a scenario
11:57<Ammler>and inlclude GRFs there, you will have that problem too
11:57<Eddi|zuHause3>loading a scenario is "a running game"
11:57<Ammler>well then, yes
11:58<Ammler>but will/can that be fixed?
11:58<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, i'd still suggest a "resetcargos" command
11:59<Eddi|zuHause3>Ammler: it might be "fixed", but it then might still not do what all users would expect, and certainly not in 0.6
12:00<Yorick><Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, i'd still suggest a "resetcargos" command <-- I agree
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12:01<Yorick>my bug report was closed, because I found out that the grf was added later, but I think it should have been changed to feature request with resetcargos command
12:02<Ammler>I would say, its a bug, because you don't get the red box
12:02<Yorick>I wasn the one that made the scenario
12:02<Yorick>the red box should say something about newcargos
12:02<Celestar>man Windows is really a miracle
12:02<Yorick>it is?
12:03<Celestar>how come that in Windows XP you cannot press a specific lever in Final Fantasy VII while it does work on 2000, NT4 and 98?
12:03<Eddi|zuHause3>ha ha ;)
12:03<Yorick>FLX has a problem with the gears lever sometimes :)
12:04<Celestar>I mean how on EARTH can you code an OS like that?
12:04-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
12:04<Yorick>which means you lose the game because you can't use the landing gears
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12:04<Celestar>FLX?
12:04<Ammler>it shows a red warning box, but about breaking ottd
12:04<Yorick>*FSX
12:04<Ammler>not that it works but not as it should
12:04<keyweed_>if ( $game eq 'Final Fantasy VII' ) { $lever->Disable }
12:04<Yorick>hehe
12:05<keyweed_>it's near the random crash functionality
12:05<Celestar>:P
12:05<Celestar>windows.c:1
12:05<Yorick>for the requirements: 'if $os eq 'WINXP') {$lever->disable}
12:06<Celestar>the game was released before XP, so I don't think that's the case :P
12:06<Celestar>http://www.bash.org/?847733 <= another windows miracle (=
12:06<Rubidium>if $os is not known ...
12:06*Celestar gets the feeling that he should run FFVII on wine
12:07<keyweed_>Celestar: or stick to openttd
12:07*Maedhros never managed to make that work
12:07<Celestar>Maedhros: what? FFVII, wine or FFVII on wine?
12:08<Maedhros>Celestar: FFVII with wine
12:08<Yorick>both?
12:08<Maedhros>i eventually gave up and bought a PS1 ;)
12:08<Celestar>it's also PRETTY interesting that without a patch, all video footage on XP appears upside-down
12:08<Yorick>:D
12:08<Ammler>if that bug won't be fixed, we need something like a save editor, else you can't play any existing scenario
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12:08<Yorick>what lever doesn't work?
12:09<Celestar>if ($codec eq 'Indeo' and $app eq 'ff7.exe') { $codec->display_upsidedown }
12:09<Yorick> = true
12:09<Rubidium>Celestar: what about clicking on the place where the level would be if the screen is upside down?
12:09<Celestar>Yorick: in Wutai, when Yuffie steals all your Materia
12:09<Yorick>pure genious
12:09<+glx>Ammler: you can play existing scenarii using the grfs used for it's creation
12:09<Celestar>Rubidium: i've tried turing the monitor by 180°, no help :P
12:10<Rubidium>you should flip it
12:10<Ammler>glx: but since newindustries, you might like to use them too
12:10<Rubidium>not rotate
12:10<+glx>Ammler: then create a new scenario
12:10<Celestar>Rubidium: maybe I should try to turn the plug by 180?
12:10<Celestar>Maedhros: the problem is, my FFvII is the 'Windows' version
12:10<Ammler>that was meant with "can't play existing scenario"
12:11<Celestar>Maedhros: which basically seems to be a badly written PS1 emulator
12:11<Maedhros>Celestar: well yes, i had to buy the PS1 version of FFVII too, but it was worth it :)
12:11<Yorick>wine doesn even have one
12:11<Celestar>Maedhros: FFVII works just fine here.
12:11<Celestar>er
12:11<Celestar>FFVIII I mean
12:11<+glx>Celestar: try changing compatibility mode
12:11<Maedhros>what i found fascinating was that the translation was worse in the PC version than the PlayStation version
12:11<Celestar>glx: yeah, I'm just TRYING to find that damn option
12:11<Maedhros>despite the fact that the PC version came afterwards
12:12<Yorick>right click -> properties ->compatibility options?
12:12<Eddi|zuHause3>start winecfg, and change the version in the dropdown box... err :p
12:12<Celestar>find it :P
12:12<Celestar>found it :P
12:12<Ammler>glx: the problem is also, you need to know exactly which newindustries you like to use before starting editing scenario
12:12<Celestar>but now I have to restart from my last save point (=
12:12<Yorick>argh...xchat is buggy
12:13<Ammler>you don't have such problems, with other GRFs
12:13<Yorick>it only redraws the screen partially if it lost focus, and crashes when trying to minimize to tray
12:13<Eddi|zuHause3>i have other problems... there is a nice looking civ4 mod where serviceable city radius changes with culture levels
12:13<Eddi|zuHause3>but it crashes when you found a city
12:14-!-GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has quit [Quit: You just lost the game]
12:14<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: you can debug it :)
12:14*Celestar loves CIV4:BTS
12:14<Yorick>you're all talking offtopic, bad all! offtopic should go into #?
12:14*Celestar sticks Yorick into #?
12:15*keyweed_ pushes Yorick into @
12:15<Yorick>chatting with a bot becomes boring after a while
12:15<Eddi|zuHause3>in the ~6 months that i have BTS now, i managed to play through 2 games ;)
12:15<Celestar>depends on the bot.
12:15<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: Huge/Marathon? ;)
12:15<Yorick>try him out, in #? :)
12:15<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah ;)
12:16<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, the second one was smaller
12:16<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: I've quit using Huge maps. I don't like my ships to take half a century to cross a smallish ocean :P
12:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i had to abandon some games because it became unstable
12:16<Eddi|zuHause3>so i don't use huge anymore
12:16<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: Huge/Marathon doesn't work on my 1GB machine, only the 2GB one.
12:17<Eddi|zuHause3>well, the unstableness might be wine related
12:17<Celestar>Civ4 works on wine for you? :o
12:17<Eddi|zuHause3>but i don't have a high end machine
12:17<De_Ghosty>u need 4 gb of ram
12:18<Celestar>it's the only real reason for which I keep my XP installation on my lappy
12:18<De_Ghosty>and a geforce 9800
12:18<De_Ghosty>to play open ttd
12:18<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, it works on some versions of wine
12:18<Celestar>only that neither XP nor Civ can use 4Gb of ram.
12:18<Eddi|zuHause3>with a few minor issues
12:18<Yorick>make forgot running strgen :o
12:18<Celestar>glx: bad news, the level doesn't work in compatibility mode either :P
12:18<Eddi|zuHause3>you have to configure it correctly, else the terrain or the ressources turn black
12:19<Eddi|zuHause3>and i can't use vertex shaders, because it says "is not supported by hardware"
12:19*Celestar found an unoffical patch
12:19<SpComb>OpenTTD vertex shaders?
12:20<Celestar>yah :)
12:20<Celestar>:P
12:20<Eddi|zuHause3>De_Ghosty: i have a Radeon 9700, does that count? :p
12:21<Celestar>De_Ghosty: you're right. my OpenGL version runs only a 256x256 map on a 6600 properly :(
12:21<Celestar>De_Ghosty: but I plan to improve that (=
12:23<Celestar>I wish I had motivation to continue that version :(
12:24<@peter1138>my opengl version runs okay
12:24<Celestar>peter1138: I mean full OpenGL
12:24<@peter1138>could do with not using floats
12:24<Celestar>http://www.fvfischer.de/ottdgl2.png
12:24<@peter1138>it is full opengl
12:25<Celestar>no sprites?
12:25<Celestar>free-fly camera?
12:25*Celestar hides
12:25<@peter1138>opengl has surfaces and textures...
12:25<@peter1138>that it was only used for drawing 2d does not mean it's not proper opengl
12:25<Celestar>true
12:26<Celestar>but I was toying around with a full 3d version at some point
12:26<@peter1138>(nvidia's guidelines for switching from dga say 'use opengl', heh)
12:26<@peter1138>anyway, my opengl driver fails due to our multithreading
12:27<Celestar>LOL
12:27<@peter1138>trying to load textures in two threads is bad ;)
12:27<Celestar>there's an enthusiast patch for FFVII that re-enables the lever
12:27<Eddi|zuHause3>"multithreading"?
12:27<Celestar>peter1138: yeah, kind of (=
12:28<Celestar>gah damn lever was a trap anyways :P
12:28<Eddi|zuHause3>haha :p
12:29<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, map generation is a separate thread
12:29<Celestar>but you had to press it to continue.
12:29<Eddi|zuHause3>peter1138: yeah, but how should that interfere with graphics?
12:29<@peter1138>well, let's just say our sprite system is a bit retarded
12:30<@peter1138>the map generator creates smoke 'vehicles', and needs the sprite dimensions of those
12:30<Rubidium>then unretard it!
12:30<@peter1138>currently the only way to get the dimensions is to load the sprite
12:30<@peter1138>Rubidium, yeah
12:32<Celestar>ReadSpriteDimensionsWithoutLoading(); ?
12:36<Celestar>Sprite->Load(false); :P
12:43<nicfer>multiclimate world + 14 players patch + 60 clients patch + a patch that makes the city growth cargo transported based instead of number of stations based + better savegame compression + big maps = MMOTTD
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12:45<@peter1138>Celestar: possible...
12:45<@peter1138>Celestar, it just uses GetSprite() currently
12:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12435 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt: -Fix: do not remove the case from the Brazilian Portuguese translation while it is still in use.
12:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12434 /tags/0.6.0-RC1/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.6.0-RC1.
12:47<Rubidium>:O CIA did a great job again in bringing us up to date in reverse order
12:47<Digitalfox>RC1, great =0
12:47<@Belugas>yeah... must be running on a window system :S
12:47<Yorick>yaay
12:47<Digitalfox>nice work :)
12:47<Rubidium>and still no servers with RC1 :(
12:48<Rubidium>that dissapoints me
12:48<@peter1138>heh
12:48*Yorick is compiling
12:48*Rubidium is doing it for the second time ;)
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12:51<Celestar>Rubidium: after TWO minutes? :P
12:52<Rubidium>Celestar: yes :)
12:52<Celestar>Rubidium: that's because you haven't updated the homepage yet :P
12:52<Rubidium>that's because a lot of people didn't upload the binaries yet
12:52<Rubidium>and because SF is slow as hell *again*
12:53*glx is compiling winXX
12:53<Celestar>what the FSCK does XP's compatiblity switch do?
12:54<Celestar>I mean that's like having a "enable 2.6.20 compatibility" in a 2.6.21 kernel :S
12:54<Rubidium>disable freeing of memory and such
12:54<Celestar>Rubidium: in case some fucked up program reads after a free(); ?
12:55<Rubidium>yeah, like Sim City
12:55<Celestar>?
12:55<Celestar>dunno SC in windows.
12:55-!-thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B65DE8.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
12:55*Belugas takes care of the www.OpenTTD.org main page as we speak
12:56<Celestar>hm.. do we get an RC1 annoucement in the forum?
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12:56<@peter1138>Gah
12:56<Celestar>Rubidium: Sim City did read/write after a free(); or what?
12:56<@peter1138>Getting sprite dimensions is fairly well tied into sprite loading :(
12:57*Celestar hands peter1138 some scissors
12:57*Celestar takes the scissors away and gives him wire cutters instead
12:58<@peter1138>No, I've given up.
12:58<Celestar>:P
12:58<Rubidium>Celestar: search for SimCity in http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html and read that paragraph
12:58*Belugas grabs the scissors from Celestar's hands and give him a RC1 announcement pencil for the forums ;)
12:59<SmatZ>:-)
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13:00<SmatZ>They reported this to the Windows developers, who disassembled SimCity, stepped through it in a debugger, found the bug, and added special code that checked if SimCity was running, ...
13:00<SmatZ>how great it would be if one could simply fix that and recompile...
13:01<dih>hello LA
13:01<LordAzamath>hello
13:01<Rubidium>SmatZ: but how get the fix to the users?
13:02<SmatZ>Rubidium: you can force recompile while upgrading windows...
13:02<SmatZ>I am rather used to it, running Gentoo :)
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13:07<Digitalfox>Rubidium: I just readu the APIWAR and one of this days i had a client with some problems on his windows xp, and after messing the registry i did find applications compability rules that the client didn't have installed or have ever used.. So now that makes sence..
13:08<Digitalfox>Didn't know that there where rules for some applications already by default in windows.. Always thought it was generic ones..
13:16<Yorick>I missed LA :(
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13:21<ln>what do you say about this code: https://verkkopankki.sampopankki.fi/html/js/logofunctionsdefault.js
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13:21<Digitalfox>The strange thing about the APIWAR is that in MCSE no one told us about this compability rules in registry and i was teach by microsoft workers.. So i guess it's things they don't want to talk about :\
13:22<Yorick>try at #javascript?
13:22<@peter1138>taught
13:22<ln>Yorick: why?
13:22<@Belugas>ln, it's pretty badly written...
13:22<@Belugas>i feel claustrophobic reading it
13:22<Yorick>just becaue I'm away again
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13:23<ln>it's written for a big Danish bank.
13:23<@Belugas>so? they like been claustrophobic?
13:23<YOYO>!openttd port
13:23<@Belugas>what do you think you're doing YOYO?
13:24<YOYO>well was reading on the forum about a port problem and there it said there should be a cmd on IRC like this giving me the info
13:24<@peter1138>@openttd port
13:24<@DorpsGek>peter1138: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
13:24<YOYO>but apperently it doesnt :)
13:25<YOYO>ah
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13:25<ln>YOYO: missing apostrophe. english please.
13:26<ln>Belugas: would you keep your money in such a bank?
13:26<YOYO>strange it still doesnt work even though the ports are ok
13:26<Sacro>ln: Missing capitalisation, English please.
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13:26<@Belugas>ln, nevar
13:27<@Belugas>too far from home :P
13:27<@Belugas>lol
13:29<YOYO>Ok what am i doing wrong.. Upd and tcp 3979 are open for inbound traffic and 3978 is open for outbound but still the server doesnt show up in the master list. Wireshark recieves his call but reports it cant access the port.
13:29<@Belugas>but on the other hand, ln, i doubt any bank will let you see its code, in order for you to make the decision to use this bank as your s:D
13:29<Yorick>server_advertise on?
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13:29<YOYO>yep like i said wireshark reports back it cant access the port
13:30<Rubidium>not wireshark, but some computer in your network
13:30<ln>Belugas: but that code is on the bank's web page, and i'm glad i'm not a customer of that bank.
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13:31<YOYO>well it says it cant reach the port.... and i just dunno which one and why
13:31<ln>try airplanes instead of ships.
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13:33<Apollo15>lol
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13:33<YOYO>In tries to be funny?
13:33<@peter1138>Hilarious.
13:33<Cablegunmaster>no in i has joined the channel in it works
13:34<Cablegunmaster>:)
13:34<Cablegunmaster>i has made irc work XD
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13:44<YOYO>if i put this in iptables this should be ok right? iptables -A INPUT -p udp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT
13:44<YOYO>same goes for the tcp thingy ofcourse
13:45<YOYO>now why keeps my linux machine refusing it?
13:45<+glx>@op
13:45-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
13:45-!-glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English Only | http://bugs.openttd.org/ for all related bugs/patches
13:45<@glx>@deop
13:45-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
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13:51<Cablegunmaster>hello!
13:51<Cablegunmaster>is it me youre looking for?
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13:58-!-anhedral is now known as dih
13:59<dih>:-)
14:00<Yorick>...I just wonder where you are...I just wonder what you do
14:00<Yorick>Cablegunmaster : do I know you?
14:00<Yorick>yes, probably ^
14:02<Cablegunmaster>^^?
14:02<Cablegunmaster>well im from fok.nl
14:03<Yorick>ah, then you're the one I know :)
14:03<Cablegunmaster>no shit sherlock ^^
14:03<Yorick>welcome on the openttd IRC channel
14:03<Cablegunmaster>im the only one with this name :)
14:04<Cablegunmaster>nobody ever came up with this ridiculous stupide name
14:04<Yorick>I can imagine why someway
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14:11<Cablegunmaster>hahaha
14:14<ln>http://img.skitch.com/20080326-cpd4drgxhmdumrt5hnf5efdqbk.jpg
14:15<Cablegunmaster>i dont understand that picture XD
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14:16<Cablegunmaster>hi ^^
14:16<Wolf01>hello
14:17<Wolf01>happy to see a new version of yapp
14:18<Cablegunmaster>yapp?
14:18<Cablegunmaster>whats different on this yapp/
14:19<@Belugas>You Are Paying Premium
14:19<Cablegunmaster>>.>?
14:19<@Belugas>YAPP
14:20<Cablegunmaster>yapp = a webclient
14:20<Cablegunmaster>YAPP (Yet Another Pretty Printer)
14:20<@Belugas>ho... really?????
14:20<Cablegunmaster>...
14:20<@Belugas>You Are Pretty Pointless :)
14:20<Cablegunmaster>you are 2...
14:20<Cablegunmaster>i dont know what yapp is
14:20<Cablegunmaster>youre making me lol about it
14:20<@Belugas>lol
14:21<Cablegunmaster>http://armidalesoftware.com/yapp/yapp.html
14:21<Cablegunmaster>this is also yapp
14:21<+glx>you should know what yapp is
14:21<Cablegunmaster>is it the route plotting on openttd?
14:21<@Belugas>yup
14:21<Cablegunmaster>thought soo ... but it still made me lol by searching yapp up by googling it ^^
14:21<@Belugas>You Understood Perfectly
14:22<Cablegunmaster>http://www.google.nl/search?q=yapp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a
14:22<Cablegunmaster>yapp ^^
14:22<Cablegunmaster>arse::Yapp (Yet Another Perl Parser compiler) i
14:22<Cablegunmaster>it didnt say anything about openttd :p
14:22<+glx>try searching on tt-forums.net
14:22<Cablegunmaster>but hey what did change in the current yapp?
14:23<Wolf01>and as always.. I don't remember how to manually patch
14:23<Cablegunmaster>...
14:23<+glx>Wolf01: use patch
14:24<Wolf01>yes, I don't remember the syntax :P
14:24<Wolf01>I remember a -I
14:24<+glx>patch -p1 -i file.patch
14:24<Wolf01>thanks
14:24<Cablegunmaster>ah well :) i like the trains in openttd... without the trains ttd would become pointless for me :p
14:24*Belugas writes down syntax in a batch file
14:24<Wolf01>me too now
14:24<Digitalfox>Is openttd-useful-v1.2-win.zip updated? Still valid?
14:24<+glx>yes
14:25<Digitalfox>ok thanks glx
14:25<+glx>Wolf01: it is -p0 for svn diff
14:25<+glx>-p1 is for git diff
14:25*Belugas should change the wikis to advertise that afxres.h is not required anymore
14:25<Cablegunmaster>well go ahead :)
14:26<Digitalfox>hum.. strgen.exe still comes with win32 builds on rc1..
14:31<+glx>Belugas: afxres.h removal done :)
14:31<@Belugas>:)
14:31<@Belugas>thanls glx
14:31<@Belugas>merci glx
14:31-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:31<yorick>back
14:32<Cablegunmaster>im watching naruto =_=
14:32<yorick>oh noes! a naruto fan!
14:32<Wolf01>uh it asks for the file to patch ò_O
14:32<Cablegunmaster>a little i hate narutards.
14:32<yorick>you probably patch from the wrong location
14:32<Wolf01>last time I patched from there
14:32<Maedhros>or with the wrong revision
14:33<yorick>what are the first 3 lines?
14:33<yorick>and from what location are you trying to patch?
14:33<Wolf01>--------------------------
14:33<Wolf01>|SVN: 12421
14:33<Wolf01>|diff --git a/docs/landscape.html b/docs/landscape.html
14:33<Wolf01>|index 32f91af..1216d45 100644
14:33<yorick>pach -p1 -i "yourfile.diff"
14:33<+glx>in trunk root
14:34<yorick>it's a gitfiff
14:35<yorick>I guess the patch is called YAPP?
14:36-!-Cablegunmaster [~lol@82-169-33-1.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
14:37<yorick>or wolf01: try to patch with http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=88431
14:37<Wolf01>ok, moved the script in the root and worked
14:37<Wolf01>the patch was that
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14:38-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
14:39<ln>!
14:39<yorick>Bjarni!
14:40<ln>Bjarni: what do you say about this code: https://verkkopankki.sampopankki.fi/html/js/logofunctionsdefault.js
14:43<Sacro>Bjarni!
14:44<yorick>#3
14:45-!-MrBrrr [~chatzilla@bas3-montreal02-1096687623.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd
14:46<MrBrrr>Is there a bug when using Pikka's Basic Industries with the latest 0.6 release candidate?
14:46<@Belugas>not that we know
14:47<MrBrrr>Well, can I speculate and say there is? And try to explain it?
14:47<Sacro>away you go!
14:47<ln>if you yell "Bjarni!" first.
14:47<Sacro>ah yes
14:47<yorick>maybe if you have loaded the grf after setting up the game?
14:48<yorick>but try to explain it ^^
14:48<MrBrrr>Well, the problem is that both coal and iron mines, as well as Oil wells have the same production when the game start.
14:48<MrBrrr>To be more precise:
14:48<MrBrrr>1) Coal mines all have the same monthly production
14:48<yorick>could be set grf-wise
14:48<MrBrrr>2) Both Oil wells and Iron mines all have the same monthly production
14:48<MrBrrr>Could be.
14:48-!-egladil [~egladil@81-236-0-99-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:48<yorick>how do you know?
14:49<yorick>have you checked it during several years?
14:49-!-egladil [~egladil@81-236-0-99-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
14:49<MrBrrr>Well, they didn't use to behave that way.
14:50<yorick>then form a bug report at bugs.openttd.org
14:50<MrBrrr>Oh it changes, but when the game starts, they all start with the same production value.
14:50<MrBrrr>Yeah, guess I have to.
14:50<@Belugas>so?
14:50<@Belugas>how come it's a bug?
14:50<Rubidium>MrBrrr: so when did OpenTTD start to show that behaviour?
14:50<yorick>and does TTDPatch do the same?
14:50<Rubidium>since what beta (or preferably since what nightly)?
14:50<MrBrrr>Well, they did use to all have randomly generated production when starting or restarting a game.
14:50-!-lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
14:51<MrBrrr>I'll verify and give ya the nightly.
14:55<@peter1138>That depends on your game settings
14:55<@peter1138>It's always done that.
14:55<@peter1138>Some combination of smooth economy and fluctuating economy
14:56<MrBrrr>Oh? I never change my settings though.
15:00-!-NukeBuster|laptop [~opera@212-182-153-94.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
15:00<MrBrrr>Checking the nightlies, won't be long
15:04<MrBrrr>Ok.
15:04<MrBrrr>11490 works fine
15:04<MrBrrr>11502 seems to exhibit the behavior I mentioned
15:05<yorick>@openttd commit 11502
15:05<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by glx :: r11502 trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp (2007-11-23 16:50:54 UTC)
15:06<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fix (r11144): don't do standard production change if callbacks 29/35 failed
15:06<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fix (r11144): disable smooth economy for industries using callbacks 29/35
15:06<@peter1138>Or 11500
15:06<+glx>that's pre beta1
15:06<MrBrrr>Yeah, it is old.
15:06<MrBrrr>Checking the later ones, but it does change behavior over those two revisions.
15:07<yorick>probably 11500 or 11502 then
15:07<+glx>and that doesn't determine starting production
15:07<yorick>you might want to check using 11501
15:08<Eddi|zuHause3>you might also want to check 11494
15:09<@peter1138>glx, 11502 affects starting production
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15:15<Wolf01>yeah, really nice the osk :D
15:16<@peter1138>yeah
15:18-!-Sacro` [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12436 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Cleanup: minor coding style
15:18<@peter1138>oh god it's sacro
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15:21<MrBrrr>Well, I don't see any new nightlies behaving any different than 11502.
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15:24<nicfer>why there are too many servers with 1024x1024 map size? I always get connection lost when I join those
15:24<yorick>then you have a _really_ bad connection
15:24<dih>ask the server admins
15:24<dih>yorick: or a really slow computer
15:24<nicfer>I have a 256k connection
15:25<yorick>computer?
15:25<nicfer>p4 2.8ghz
15:25<nicfer>768mb ram
15:25<yorick>same here
15:25<yorick>but not 256k connection
15:25<yorick>how many MB is that?
15:25<yorick>:p
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15:25<mrfrenzy>I can easily join a 1024x1024 map from a 56k modem
15:26<mrfrenzy>something is wrong with your setup nicfer
15:26-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:26<nicfer>maybe its because I am too far from the servers
15:26<Rubidium>or the server doesn't pause while you're downloading the map
15:27-!-Sacro` [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:27<nicfer>the server pauses
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15:33<nicfer>recently I joined one of these servers and the game crashed with the error 'trying to send a packet in the past or something so
15:33<yorick>fixed meanwhile
15:33<yorick>execute, I assume?
15:34-!-Morloth [~bram@53542231.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:34<nicfer>yes, execute
15:35*yorick has a patch that merges the nick change and password change packets into 1
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15:50<ln>wtf, Bjarni joined and has said nothing since?
15:51-!-Axamentia [~SlayerRag@78-105-140-209.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:52<yorick>oh noes!
15:52<Axamentia>yarr
15:52-!-Nego [~pim@cp510420-a.venlo1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
15:53<Nego>can someone help me with the multiplayer mode?
15:53<yorick>yes
15:53<Nego>how to save / load the game status
15:54<yorick>but the user "someone" is currently not online
15:54<Nego>so when the server goes down, it can be save first
15:54<yorick>try clicking the save icon
15:54<Nego>its dedicated
15:54<yorick>try putting in "save"
15:54<Nego>so working from the console
15:54<yorick>and read the help it gives
15:55<Nego>k
15:55<Nego>tgbx
15:55<Nego>thnx
15:55-!-Nego [~pim@cp510420-a.venlo1.lb.home.nl] has quit []
15:56<Eddi|zuHause3>KTHXBYE.
15:57<yorick>and who sayed something about not to annoy the noob?
15:57<yorick>noobs seem to be annoying us
15:57<yorick>argh..."revenge of the noobs"!
16:02-!-lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:02<ln>were the former employees of Stasi hired by Lidl?
16:02<ln>or, rather, did Lidl hire some of them..
16:02<yorick>Quite.
16:03<Eddi|zuHause3>"every fifth person works with the Stasi."
16:04-!-Tuthmes [~koenoe@dc51479291.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:04<ln>referring to: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,543431,00.html
16:04<Eddi|zuHause3>funnily, every fifth person is now unemployed ;)
16:04<@Bjarni>so I should kick 20% of the people in here?
16:04<Tuthmes>hello!
16:05<yorick>hello Bjarni!
16:05<Tuthmes>any people of the dutch trainset around about here?
16:06<yorick>no, Purno took a day off, I think
16:06<Tuthmes>:|
16:06<Tuthmes>they took the site down methinks :<
16:06<yorick>it already was not really working
16:06<Tuthmes>well cant download it now
16:07<yorick>you couldn't anyway
16:07<yorick>it wasn't released yet!
16:07<Tuthmes>could tbh, played alot with it
16:08<yorick>http://users.tt-forums.net/dutchset/index.php?page=set1§ion=download <-- verrry old prerelease
16:08<yorick>not even sprinters in it
16:08<Tuthmes>ahh yes cheers thats the one :>
16:08<Tuthmes>yeah but the electric railroad looks the best!
16:09<yorick>that's the dutch catenary set ;)
16:09<Eddi|zuHause3>catenary has nothing to do with trains
16:09<Eddi|zuHause3>totally different .grf
16:15-!-Tuthmes [~koenoe@dc51479291.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:16<yorick>glx : I've updated FS#1866 again
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16:18<ln>what is this verb "sei"?
16:18<yorick>"sei", from "sein"?
16:18<ln>i assume some form of "sein". (translation for Belugas: "to be")
16:18<Eddi|zuHause3>"be"
16:19<Eddi|zuHause3>or in mathmatical context "let"
16:19-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78.107.167.209] has quit []
16:20<ln>what form is it?
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16:21-!-svanberg [5ae7aaec@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
16:21<svanberg>hello :)
16:21-!-robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
16:22<Eddi|zuHause3>you can ask questions...
16:22<svanberg>i have one question about the game. if i have longer stations does it reduce load/load off time?
16:22<svanberg>:)
16:22<Eddi|zuHause3>some form of imperative
16:22<@peter1138>sort of
16:22<Eddi|zuHause3>"sei still!" -> "be quiet"
16:22<@peter1138>if a train is longer than a platform it will take ages
16:22<Eddi|zuHause3>really depends on context
16:23<@peter1138>but if a platform is longer than a train it offers no benefit
16:24<svanberg>so longer platform is always better when you have larger trains ?
16:24<ln>ah, i may have seen it being used as imperative, but using it like it's used in the spiegel.de article is something new to me.
16:26<svanberg>im not so good at english, so please explain to me like i was a idiot :)
16:26<Patrick`>spiegeltent!
16:27<yorick>not english! alert! kick! oh noes!
16:27<+glx>svanberg: platform should be at least as long as train
16:28<+glx>but extra length doesn't give loading speed bonus
16:28<svanberg>glx: thx :)
16:28-!-Ammler is now known as __
16:28<yorick>__
16:29<ln>translation for Belugas: "spiegel.de" = "mirror.ger"
16:29<Rubidium>Ammler in a car crusher :D
16:29-!-__ is now known as Ammler
16:29<yorick>... :D
16:29<+glx>ln: isn't that a newspaper url ?
16:30<ln>glx: yeah.
16:30<yorick>what is?
16:30<ln>glx: a non-english url.
16:31<yorick>*disables underline* it means something like mirror.ger, I think
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16:34<Eddi|zuHause3>ln: where?
16:34<Eddi|zuHause3>ln: where is that "sei" used?
16:34-!-robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:34<ln>22:04 < ln> referring to: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,543431,00.html
16:34<Eddi|zuHause3>you must always deliver context
16:34<Eddi|zuHause3>it may also be used as conditional
16:35<ln>"Die Überwachung sei über sogenannte Miniaturkameras in den Filialen erfolgt, ...", "In den Protokollen sei jeweils mit Tag und Uhrzeit notiert, ..."
16:35<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, yeah, i have no idea how that is called
16:36<Eddi|zuHause3>it's some kind of indirect speech
16:36<Eddi|zuHause3>if you say what someone else said
16:37<ln>like "is said to be" or something?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause3>you replace "ist" with "sei", to indicate that you do not directly know the fact
16:37<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah
16:37<ln>cool
16:39<nicfer>hmmm what about bus stops in intersections / curves?
16:40<Eddi|zuHause3>no.
16:41<nicfer>too hard as I can see
16:42-!-SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:42<nicfer>so.... what about random city grids? so one can have a 2x2, other a 3x3 one, or even 2x3/3x2 ones
16:42<Eddi|zuHause3>2x2 and 3x3 are possible
16:42<ln>(UTF-8 is mandatory.)
16:43<nicfer>how do I active UTF-8?
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16:50<YOYO>@openttd port
16:50<@DorpsGek>YOYO: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
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16:52<YOYO>question for any linux goeroe around whats wrong about those 2 Iptable lines?
16:52<YOYO>iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT
16:52<YOYO>iptables -A INPUT -p udp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT
16:53-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-225-220.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
16:54<Progman>michi_cc: you cannot remove all reservations, can you?
16:54<Patrick`>hmm
16:54<Patrick`>nope
16:54<SpComb>http://zapotekii.srv.myottd.net/~terom/stuff/design.txt <-- so hmm, I started thinking about the future design of MyOTTD again, and here's two questions that I've tried to answer myself, but I'd be interested in hearing what other people think of the questions/answers
16:55<Rubidium>YOYO: any routers in between your server and the internet?
16:55<Progman>my yapp5 game got fucked up with reservations by trains which turns it directions :(
16:55<SpComb>the first one is about introducing some kind of virtual currency for MyOTTD to regulate use of it, and the second one is about adding some kind of proper external API to OpenTTD
16:56<ln>YOYO: you may want to use -I instead of -A
16:56<YOYO>yup but port is forwarded there.. Like i said wireshark on the box responds to the call from the master server claiming that he cant reacht the port
16:56<SpComb>the latter might be of interest to other people outside of MyOTTD, dunno
16:56<+glx>Progman: using the fix for YAPP5 ?
16:56<@peter1138>let's commit yapp
16:56<Progman>glx: now, but the savegame was before the fix
16:57<+glx>then remove the track and rebuild
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17:00<YOYO>ln whats the difference? never encountered -l before
17:00<ln>YOYO: err... change your font.
17:00<Eddi|zuHause3>SpComb: i'd say someone with an average of two players should be able to run a 256x256 map permanently, 3 players 512x512 and 4 players 1024x1024 (i wouldn't allow bigger than that)
17:01<SpComb>the way that would work is that running a map of size x debits you y ISK/hour, and having z players credits you w ISK/hour
17:01<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, and paused servers give you a discount
17:01<SpComb>with x, y, z, w customized somehow that in the long term you'd run out of ISK and have to reduce the map size
17:01<SpComb>the CPU usage of paused servers it's exactly 0
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, but the memory usage is not 0, so they should cost very little, but not nothing
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>as you said, you don't want idle servers
17:02<SpComb>it's low enough that I can run dozens of paused servers on a Athlon64 3500+ without it being too slow, though
17:03<SpComb>yeah, there's currently dozens of presumeably completely idle MyOTTD servers on the OpenTTD server list
17:04<Eddi|zuHause3>well, let's talk numbers, like paused server = -1, 256x256 map = -10, 1 player = +5
17:04*peter1138 ponders food in temperate
17:04<Patrick`>you don't want too many paused servers
17:04*Eddi|zuHause3 ponders food in rl
17:05<@peter1138>as in, if you enable it with newcargoes, should it do anything
17:05<Patrick`>because if there's a "run on the bank"
17:05<Patrick`>and they all come on
17:05<Patrick`>you suddenly find yourself with too many processes
17:05<SpComb>terom@zapotekII:~/my_ottd$ ps aux | grep "openttd -D" | wc -l
17:05<SpComb>84
17:06<SpComb>that's the issue that I want to solve...
17:06<Patrick`>I mean too few cycles
17:06<Eddi|zuHause3>peter1138: there should be more effects of cargo on towns, like "city >2000, no energy -> growth 1/4"
17:06<Patrick`>I have an idea.
17:06<SpComb>although it seems that only a portion of those show up on the masterserver list
17:06<Patrick`>do a sc2k
17:06<Patrick`>has anyone modded in power lines?
17:07<Patrick`>as in, elrails only run if the network is in contact with a fuelled power station
17:07<Eddi|zuHause3>"power" means "a power plant in the city that gets coal [oil?]"
17:07<Patrick`>and towns grow :)
17:07<Eddi|zuHause3>Patrick`: there have been suggestions like that, but nobody implemented it
17:08<@peter1138>power stations don't actually produce anything. hmm.
17:09<Patrick`>they produce an absence of coal
17:10<SpComb>IMO, in ideal operation, the amount of ISK that you get from active players should be larger than the ISK that running the server costs you, so that an active server slowly builds up an overhead that lets it keep running across idle periods, and possibly let you create more servers
17:10<Patrick`>isk :)
17:10<Eddi|zuHause3>then tweak it a little, like -9 for running, and 2*(+5) for 2 players
17:10<Patrick`>hee
17:11<SpComb>tweaking the numbers is the difficult bit
17:11<Eddi|zuHause3>means 2 players can play half a day, and idle the other half, or make the difference bigger, like -10 and 2*(+6), for 8h play and 16h idle
17:12<SpComb>figuring out the usage patterns for MyOTTD would also help to figure out how to tweak them
17:13<SpComb>it's pretty rare that I actually *use* MyOTTD myself, so I don't really know how people actually... use it
17:13-!-Philipp [~chatzilla@dslb-084-063-028-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
17:13<Eddi|zuHause3>do it like Lidl ;)
17:13<Philipp>hy
17:14<Philipp>Hi
17:14<Eddi|zuHause3>record personal conversations, even over cell phones, and when people make pause or go to the toilet
17:15<Philipp>zu hause ist deutsch oder? :-)
17:15<Eddi|zuHause3>occasionally ;)
17:15-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41673.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:15<Philipp>Viel englisch kann ich net :(
17:15<Eddi|zuHause3>now is your chance to improve it ;)
17:16<Philipp>Gibts nen OpenTTD Serverviewer. Wo man auf der HP denn status anzeigen lassen kann?
17:18<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, there are things like this in the forum
17:18-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B80DAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: It's like, wah.]
17:18<Philipp>i have 2 days google and other one use and not found it
17:18<Philipp>i have use...
17:19<Philipp>can you give me a URL?
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>not really, i don't run a server
17:20<SpComb>what about the other thing that I discuss in that, aka some kind of real external API for openttd?
17:20<Eddi|zuHause3>SpComb: i have not read that, too long ;)
17:20<ln>omg, i'm seeing a lot of non-english above.
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause3>Philipp: there are people in the forum that have server status in their signature, you can ask one of those
17:22<SpComb>the problem is that I have to offer a single web frontend that lets people view and manage a bunch of openttd processes that are each of a variety of versions
17:22<Philipp>sry for my german... i noooot good in english
17:22<SpComb>so I might have a handful of servers running 0.5.3, a handful of 0.6.0-beta5, a handful running some nightly, and I need to be able to have a web frontend that can be used to manage each of them
17:23<SpComb>currently I just use OpenTTD console's, but it really sucks
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>autopilot? ottdlib? i don't know if they are suitible for what you want
17:23<SpComb>my idea is to build my own API and automatically compile it against the nightly/release versions of OpenTTD, and then use that to manage the servers
17:24<Philipp>its a good idea.
17:24<SpComb>my code currently does more or less what autopilot and ottdlib do (it communicates over the console on stdin, and sends/receieves UDP packets)
17:24<SpComb>the problem with it is that the API code wouldn't be in trunk, it would be my own custom code, and the code in trunk that my code uses changes from time to time
17:25<Philipp>i have a little PERL application written... whit TELNET... i can make a socket to the gameserver... not more :-(
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>SpComb: you could beat truebrain to start including squirrel as console language, like he once promised ;)
17:26<SpComb>unless the OpenTTD devs decide that they want to include some properly specified and versioned external API in the official OpenTTD
17:26<SpComb>would squirrel offer access to the entire OpenTTD internals?
17:27<Eddi|zuHause3>whatever you meas as "entire"... i'd guess it'll have a similar API as the AI has
17:27-!-YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:28<SpComb>would I be able to do things like http://dev.myottd.net/ with it? :/
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>how should i know?
17:28<SpComb>I guess I'm asking #openttd at large
17:28<Progman>Philipp: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Network_Protocol
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>Philipp: afaik, ottdlib is a python program for querying servers
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>autopilot is a tcl wrapper for administrating a server
17:30<Eddi|zuHause3>SpComb: i get a blank rectangle there... (konqueror)
17:30<SpComb>I tested it konq at one point
17:31<Patrick`>cool
17:31<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause3: try resizing the window
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17:31<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, now it's black ;)
17:32<SpComb>hmm, it works fine for me in konq once I resize it
17:32<SpComb>perhaps you're scrolled up past the edge of the map
17:33<SpComb>http://dev.myottd.net/#goto_7215_6274_1
17:33<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah i think so, too, but i can't find it back
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17:33<SpComb>but that's an example of the kind of functionality that I might want to implement on top of the API that I was talking about
17:34<Eddi|zuHause3>SpComb: anyway, if you have access to the NoAI api, you can probably build a graphical representation of the AI view of the map (valuators etc.)
17:34<SpComb>can I kick players from a network game via the NoAI api?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause3>for anything more specific, you should probably talk to truebrain
17:35<SpComb>(presumeably not)
17:35<SpComb>and does the NoAI api remain the same across OpenTTD versions?
17:35<Eddi|zuHause3>probably not
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17:36<Eddi|zuHause3>especially since it is not finished yet
17:36<Eddi|zuHause3>one would wish it would stay fairly stable after inclusion in trunk, only get bugfixes and new features
17:37<Eddi|zuHause3>the "zoom in" looks very pixelated
17:38<SpComb>it should load the zoomed-in version on top of the pixelated version
17:38<SpComb>and indeed it does so in my konq
17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>then my line is just not fast enough ;)
17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>which is veeery likely
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17:49<fjb>Hello
17:51<Eddi|zuHause3>moin. [err..]
17:51<fjb>:-P
17:51<fjb>How do I configure OpenTTD for crosscompiling with mingw?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause3>there are configure options like "HOST" and "TARGET"
17:52<Eddi|zuHause3>and there might be a howto on the wiki
17:52<Eddi|zuHause3>if not, write one ;)
17:53<fjb>I have to find out how it works first.
17:53-!-Philipp [~chatzilla@dslb-084-063-028-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #openttd []
17:53<SpComb>are the source tarballs for the on the openttd downloads page for the release versions the same as the tags in the OpenTTD svn?
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yes
17:54<fjb>In the wiki is a howto for compiling with mingw under windows.
17:56<Eddi|zuHause3>there should also be a crosscompiling howto
17:56<nicfer>is there a solution for making buses not break in curves and contracurves?
17:57<fjb>Don't build curves.
17:57<+glx>fjb: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Cross_Compiling
17:57<Ammler>:)
17:57<fjb>glx: Thank you
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>do you mean "break" or "brake?
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18:19<nicfer>damn
18:20<nicfer>my coal mine doesn't stop decreasing production
18:20<Eddi|zuHause3>get higher rating
18:20-!-Morloth [~bram@53542231.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
18:21<enkoopa>If I want to change raw_industry_construction setting, do I have to start a new game? Or is there a way to do it keeping my current game?
18:21<Eddi|zuHause3>you can do it within the game
18:22<enkoopa>Well, I have a dedicated server.
18:22-!-dih is now known as anhedral
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>list_patches
18:22<enkoopa>So I save it, change the setting, restart it, load the game...
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>patch <name>=<value>
18:22<enkoopa>Cool!
18:23-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
18:23<nicfer>the rating doesn't get up of 67%
18:23<Eddi|zuHause3>nicfer: a statue will get you +10%
18:23-!-Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
18:24<Eddi|zuHause3>an advertising campain gets you temporarily +30%
18:24<Eddi|zuHause3>statue bonus is permanent
18:25<nicfer>but other station gets ~80%
18:25<enkoopa>Eddi|zuHause3: I love you.
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>nicfer: there are other bonuses, like speed of vehicles, vehicle age < 2 years
18:27<fjb>nicfer: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics
18:27-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5BE87.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>you get malus for >1000 items waiting, i believe
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18:29<fjb>Sounds like ECS again. The constant decreasing of the production without a statue is very annoying at the beginning of the game. If you are unlucky you get bankrupt before you have enough money for the first statue.
18:29<Eddi|zuHause3>start with passengers ;)
18:29<fjb>Passenger destinations patch... :-P
18:29<Eddi|zuHause3>although that way, you have no industries left by the time you can afford servicing them ;)
18:30<fjb>That is the second annoyance.
18:31<Eddi|zuHause3>the big problem with ECS is, it has no concept of difficulty levels
18:33-!-lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
18:34<fjb>I think it is simply to hard to get a stable economy. You have to buffer everything. And at least most train sets don't have shunting locomotives for that purpose.
18:35<fjb>In later years you can use trucks. But then you can also just build highways instead of railway lines.
18:37<Eddi|zuHause3>industries in close proximity should have an automatic way to "transfer" cargo between them
18:37<Eddi|zuHause3>"Schiene & Straße" (TTT) had such a system
18:38-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
18:39<Eddi|zuHause3>it wasn't really necessary with the default industries, because there were not as many chains to support
18:40<Eddi|zuHause3>but with ECS, there should be stable local economy systems without the user interfering, but increasing in efficiency when they do
18:40<fjb>At least ECS is getting better. In dustries are not closing that fast anymore.
18:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i guess it is beta for a reason ;)
18:41<fjb>Yes. And it looks very complicated what George is doing.
18:44<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't watch it that closely
18:45<Eddi|zuHause3>i just tested it once, it made my computer extremely slow, and it was not suitible for my style of playing (passenger network with occasional cargo trains)
18:48<fjb>The good thing is that you can chose which grfs suit your style best.
18:49<Eddi|zuHause3>i like the complexity of the cargo chains, but industries should never be closing
18:50<Eddi|zuHause3>and be less responsive if my network is not behaving overly efficient
18:52<fjb>That is one of the trouble with ECS. One jam and your whole economy breaks.
18:53<fjb>The production drops very fast.
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18:54<Patrick`>I hate doing pax networks
18:54<Patrick`>because there's just so many of them
18:54<Patrick`>I accidentally did a goods dump with train cars that took pax
18:55<Patrick`>it pegged to 4k waiting in about a month
18:55<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, there are too many
18:55<Patrick`>and I had to saturate that line just to clear it
18:55<Patrick`>made a mint
18:55<Patrick`>but still
18:55<Patrick`>not what I play for
18:55<Eddi|zuHause3>it is *gasp* unrealistic
18:56<fjb>The passanger destinations patch makes it a bit better.
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>no, it doesn't... i had >500 passengers waiting at every tram station
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>in a town with 4k inhabitants, i had like 10k passengers waiting
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18:58<fjb>It has an option to reduce passengers.
18:59<Patrick`>that's insane
18:59<Patrick`>that's like turning up to the station to go to work in the morning
18:59<Patrick`>waiting 24 hours for a train
18:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i read those options, but i have no idea what they meant
18:59<Patrick`>then yourself turns up again and waits with you
19:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i then tore down half the city to build a rail line, but it only shifted the problem to the main station
19:02<Wolf01>'night
19:03-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host237-17-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:04<Patrick`>KAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE
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19:32<Roujin>good evening
19:35<fjb>Hi Roujin
19:36-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:36<fjb>Hm, Canset is not able to transport wood products. :-(
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19:41*Roujin is back from holidays and is now updating his patches to trunk
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19:42<mrfrenzy>nice roujin ;)
19:44<Roujin>by the way, I found openttdcoop's headquarters in norway :D
19:44<Roujin>wait a sec, have to post the image somewhere ^^
19:45<SmatZ>:-)
19:46-!-Ammler [~ammler@adsl-84-226-24-220.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47<Roujin>here... don't worry about the weird domain name, it's a free image hoster, believe me or not oO http://analgrotte.de/v2/viewer.php?id=klz1206575496e.JPG
19:47<Roujin>(scroll down, it's a big image)
19:47<mrfrenzy>hehe ;)
19:48<SmatZ>impressive :)
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19:52<Patrick`>Roujin: we have a range of shops here in the UK called the COOP
19:54<SmatZ>so do we :) www.coop.cz
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19:55<Roujin>dang ^^ but i found it funny because i think i hadn't seen a shop called coop before that.. and first thought about openttdcoop when i saw this ^^
19:58<fjb>You will see coop shops all over the swiss. We also had a lot of them in Germany till the 80s.
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20:00<Progman>coop \o/, now we got edekas...
20:01<Roujin>well 80s is before my time I guess :P
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20:09<Spkka>hey all
20:09<Spkka>short question how do i save a dedicated server game?
20:09<Zuu>Try type help and see what you get
20:11<Spkka>?
20:11<Zuu>Your dedicated server have a console/shell.
20:12<Spkka>i run it wiht -D
20:12<Zuu>if you type help there you get a list of commands if I recall correctly.
20:12<Progman>then use rcon
20:12<Spkka>oh ok nvm
20:12<Spkka>thnx
20:13<Roujin>ok, updated all my 5 pending patches
20:13-!-dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable147.26-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
20:13<dragonhorseboy>hey
20:13<dragonhorseboy>hm..no fugas again :/
20:13<Roujin>patchpack later or tomorrow
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20:15<Spkka>kk thanks for help man \m/
20:15<Spkka>see ya later and have a nice night and all that!
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20:41<fjb>Good night
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21:16<Roujin>night
21:17<SmatZ>right
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21:23<Eddi|zuHause3>fight
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21:29<SmatZ>light
21:29<SmatZ>eight
21:29<SmatZ>tight
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22:38<_Ben_>Hi, would somebody being able to elaborate on what exactly this means? : Feature: Increase house animation frame number from 32 to 128 (r12347)
22:39<_Ben_>great to see the next release out by the way, thanks to all who have worked on that
22:39<_Ben_>being/be
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22:47<SmatZ>_Ben_: it would mean something for GRF coders I think
22:47<SmatZ>though I don't know what are GRF spec requirements there...
22:51<_Ben_>SmatZ: hmm ok cheers. It sounded interesting, like giving some more options to artists. I imagin it will become clear in time if it is
22:53<SmatZ>_Ben_: well, I don't know 'anything' about houses GRF coding, sorry :-(
22:53<_Ben_>ok cheers, guess most people are sleeping, I'll try finding out more later
22:53<_Ben_>bye
22:54<SmatZ>bye _Ben_
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 27 00:00:49 2008