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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-03

---Logopened Thu Apr 03 00:00:52 2008
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03:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r12543 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed)
03:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-04-03 08:42:55
03:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 18 fixed by fukumori (18)
03:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 17 fixed by thetitan (17)
03:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 11 fixed by arnaullv (11)
03:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 19 fixed by habell (19)
03:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 11 fixed by glx (11)
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05:36<Celestar>@openttd bugs
05:37<@Rubidium>Celestar: -ENOSUCHDORPSGEK
05:37<keyweed>no more bugs \o/
05:38<Celestar>I'm still pondering a strategy about newgrf ports.
05:38<Celestar>Rubidium: in the branch, we did some trying up in the header files. Could we port them to trunk?
05:39<@Rubidium>cleanup in headers?
05:39<@Rubidium>like what?
05:39<Celestar>tidying up.
05:39<Celestar>standby looking
05:39<@Rubidium>the headers in trunk are vastly changed since then
05:40<Celestar>Rubidium: 9507, 9508, 9510
05:41<@Rubidium>ieuw... windows newlines :(
05:41<Celestar>it's been changed
05:42<Celestar>in 08 (=
05:42<@Rubidium>I don't like the addition of the 4 airports either
05:42<Celestar>Rubidium: neither do I. I'd like to have them as newgrf only
05:42<@peter1138>4 more airports?
05:42<@peter1138>or the current 4?
05:42<@peter1138>(or what)
05:42<@Rubidium>4 more
05:42<Celestar>peter1138: 4 more richK and I have been working on to test the concept of newgrf_ports
05:42<@Rubidium>well, only in the airport type enum that is
05:42<@peter1138>i didn't like the original addition :p
05:42<Celestar>peter1138: the one DV made? :P
05:43<@peter1138>nah, that one's good
05:43<@peter1138>the extras after that
05:43<Celestar>well the commuter airport is great
05:43<@peter1138>international is pretty useless
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05:44<bowman>not entirely, it has heliports
05:44<Celestar>intercontinental I think he means
05:44<Celestar>... word order :P
05:44<@Rubidium>Celestar: the additions of the new terminals/helipads isn't 'cleanup-ish' either
05:44<bowman>intercontinental is the one with 4 runways!
05:45<keyweed>i always feel a need for 4 runways.
05:45<@Rubidium>Celestar: 9510 is ok by me, just regenerate the project files after applying it
05:45<@Rubidium>and fix the comment style :)
05:46<bowman>only thing I'm missing with the airports is a way to select their direction/alignment
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05:47<Celestar>Rubidium: nope it isn't. I'd first like to move the stuff in the new header files.
05:47<Celestar>bowman: that'S already implemented, but not in yet in trunk
05:49<Celestar>is it me or are RichK's commits a bit of a mess?
05:49<@Rubidium>it is not you
05:49<Celestar>good to know
05:50<@Rubidium>I tried to improve that, but he kinda didn't want to listen
05:50<Celestar>Rubidium: I'll start over
05:50<@Rubidium>"it first needs to work before I bother about coding style" and such
05:50<Celestar>Rubidium: that's ok... for the local working copy
05:50<@Rubidium>might be a little over-dramatised though
05:56<Celestar>why is my svn so slow?!
05:56<Celestar>is the svn server down?
05:59<@Rubidium>don't know what you're doing though
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06:04<Celestar>"svn up"
06:04<Celestar>connection times out
06:05<dih>i'll tell TrueBrain
06:05<dih>heh - Celesta - it works for me alright ^^
06:05<Celestar>damnit Newgrf_ports has a lot of changes
06:05<Celestar>it works again :o
06:07<Celestar>Rubidium: peter1138: you guys got a sec today or tomorrow. I'd like to have some strategy about that branch. I think it's a great feature, because it'll enable us to use the FSM for other things as well, but the code seems a bit too much of a mess, and syncing is a pita. What shall we do?
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06:12<Celestar>hm .. people are building their 4-track mainlines weirdly
06:12<Celestar>normally it should be (u = up, d = down): dudu or udud, not uudd or dduu.
06:13<dih>that is openttdcoop style :-)
06:14<Celestar>no 4-track line I know works uudd or dduu
06:14<dih>we often have LLL_RRR or worse
06:14<dih>worse meaning LLL5RRR
06:14<Celestar>In munich, we only have one 6-track trunk route, plus a number of 4-track trunk routes
06:14<dih>i think right now we have a game with LLL10RRR
06:15<Celestar>they're LRLR and LRLRLR, there'S a 5 line route with BLRLR
06:15<@peter1138>openttdcoop do not build for realism though
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06:16<Celestar>well, actually Munich Central station has a 10-lane trunk I think
06:16<TheJosh>hey all
06:17<Celestar>jep. 10 lanes
06:17<dih>thad is not good for mainline junctions
06:17<dih><-- slow typer - can only use one hand
06:18<Celestar>dih: IRL, there are no "juncions". At least not out in the boonies. Juncions always come with stations normally
06:18<dih>and in IRL you dont have such isses with signalling
06:19<dih>in irl - great!!
06:19<Celestar>dih: I found in openttd LRLR to be easier to handle than LLRR
06:20<@peter1138>real life doesn't place signals so often either
06:20<Celestar>peter1138: neither do I in openttd. about 5 or 6 tiles apart
06:20<Celestar>so that a train fits between signals
06:20<@peter1138>me too, or more for quieter lines
06:21<@peter1138>i guess i play ottd as a train set rather than to make money ;)
06:21<@peter1138>cos making money is boring
06:21<Celestar>man Munich Central has a SHITLOAD of tracks :P
06:21<@peter1138>what's the point of that?
06:21<@peter1138>it'ss tupid
06:21<Celestar>dih: something is wrong with that network :P
06:21<Gekz>that image is scrwed
06:21<Celestar>on the other hand ..
06:22<dih>Celestar: we play openttdcoop - aim is to connect everything :-)
06:22<dih>Celestar: join #openttdcoop and have a look at the current map ^^
06:22<TheJosh>so re the devs going to go on a well deserved break after the release of 0.0.0???
06:22<TheJosh>0.6.0 i mean
06:22<Gekz>why is there land purchased around the signal tower
06:22<Gekz>dih: ^
06:23<dih>perhaps to mark an annoyance
06:23<keyweed>to prevent it from escaping
06:23<Gekz>escape how
06:23<Gekz>those things should be nukable
06:23<Gekz>they're useless
06:24<dih>they are features
06:24<Celestar>dih: what version?
06:24<TheJosh>perhaps a small patch
06:24<TheJosh>you can buy the radio tower and the NUKE IT!
06:24<TheJosh>how much should a radio tower cost?
06:25<dih>can you not just ignor the tower?
06:25<TheJosh>i do not think the devs would let such a patch in...but it would be fun anyway
06:25<Dominik>just enable the magic bulldozer
06:25<TheJosh>im sure #openttdcoop would play with it, along with nuke industry
06:26<keyweed>you can make yourself a map with no mountains, no water and no radiotowers. great fun :/
06:26<Celestar>just flat
06:26<Celestar>no towns as well
06:26<keyweed>perfect for building networks
06:26<TheJosh>i dont mean that
06:26<Celestar>lots of coal plants on the edges, one power plant in the middle :P
06:26<TheJosh>i mean spending 500 million to get rid of a stinkin radio tower when its really really in the way
06:27<TheJosh>not somthing you would do very often
06:27<Celestar>use a damn tunnel?!
06:27<TheJosh>or that
06:27<keyweed>use the awesome creative power of the human brain to find a solutio to the problem within the possibilities within reach
06:27<TheJosh>but when you have money to burn...
06:27<Celestar>tunnels are to burn money
06:27<TheJosh>like making a patch thats creative
06:28<keyweed>make 2 stations, dump everything on one, then transfer to trucks, have the trucks drive past the radio station and transfer to the second station, proceed as normal from there.
06:28<dih>TheJosh: we dont host pached games
06:28<Celestar>yeah right
06:28<keyweed>not very effiecient, but fun.
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06:29<dih>TheJosh: learn to work with what you have
06:29<Celestar>so which is the best blitter we have? :P
06:29<Noldo>best == fastest ?
06:29<Celestar>most pretty;)
06:30<@peter1138>opengl :D
06:30<@peter1138>8bpp-optimized, probably
06:30<@peter1138>32bpp-anim if you like antialiased text
06:30<Celestar>we have a warning in 0.6.0 source
06:30<Celestar>in the debug helpers
06:30<@peter1138>on 64bit
06:31<Noldo>Celestar: have you figured out what is causing it?
06:31<Celestar>Noldo: not yet, I have discovered it 15 seconds ago
06:31<dih>you slow coatch
06:32<@Rubidium>I'm with the "it's a stupid compiler" strategy
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06:33<Celestar>size_t is an int, right?
06:33<@Rubidium>shouldn't be
06:33<@peter1138>size_t is a size_t
06:34<Celestar>somewhere we have a typedef unsinged int size_t or something
06:35<Noldo>maybe in some system header
06:36<@Rubidium>there's no typedef of size_t in OTTD's sources
06:36<Celestar>well, but in the system/compiler sources somewhere
06:37<@Rubidium>(except for MSVC)
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06:54<Celestar>hey Brianetta (=
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06:56<Celestar>size_t is not a fundamental data type in C, right?
06:56<Celestar>neither in C++
06:59<Brianetta>I doubt it
06:59<hylje>could depend on the implementation, but i think its mostly a typedef
07:00<Celestar>I do not understand that warning
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07:08<hylje>i' g'o't'c'h'a'
07:08<@peter1138>that's wrong
07:08<@peter1138>"Note: Special care must be taken over the use of your and you're as they sound the same but are used quite differently:
07:08<@peter1138>they do NOT sound the same
07:08<Celestar>ph man. a single commit of 1800 lines
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07:10<hylje>thats a big large
07:10<hylje>could be reasonable for a merge, but a single change?
07:10<Ammler>Celestar: nice googlemap screen, some guys still like to tell, hubs with bridges are "unrealistic"
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07:11<Celestar>Ammler: er?
07:15<Ammler>([12:22] <Celestar> peter1138:,11.489918&spn=0.004782,0.009999&t=h&z=17)
07:18<hylje>yep, contary to popular belief railroads do get bridged over each other too
07:18<Celestar>I mean why should hubs with bridges be unrealistic
07:18<Celestar>it's the only way there is
07:18*keyweed looks in the direction of station duivendrecht from his office.
07:18<Ammler>ask the "pbs"-fans :-)
07:18<keyweed>well. the dutch rail network is full of hubs with bridges...
07:18<Celestar>any sane rail network is full of hubs with bridges
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07:28<Celestar>keyweed: that looks pretty normal to me
07:28<keyweed>Celestar: i was thinking how much it looks like openttd constructions.
07:28<keyweed>but yes. it's normal. and it works, i travel across it every day
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07:47<Celestar>what are the items on the roadmap for 0.7?
07:48<Forked>oh man this is a good day
07:48<Forked>for the internet addict known as forked
07:48<Forked>Just placed the change order .. going from adsl2+ to VDSL2
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07:48<Forked>speed increase from 17/1Mbit to 40/20 probably (at least 20/10)
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07:49<Celestar>we had 15000 downloads of 0.5.3?!
07:50<Noldo>how many downloads the nightlys get on average?
07:51<Ammler>why did you quit torrents?
07:51<Gekz>it smells odd in here
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07:57<Celestar>ATV docking comin up
08:00<Celestar>Automated Transfer Vehicle. A European built-22 ton spacecraft.
08:00<Celestar>which starts docking with the ISS in a couple of minutes (final dock in 2.5 hours)
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08:00<Noldo>how very elite
08:01<Celestar>it's not a bad device
08:01<hylje>it sucks, it can't even run Crysis
08:01<Celestar>about the best the Europeans have made in spaceflight since the Ariane 4
08:02<keyweed>the test went perfect. this should go well
08:02<Celestar>I quite agree
08:02*Celestar just wonders why the ATV is human-rated if it doesn't have an option go return to earth in one piece
08:03<keyweed>and since the mericans are giving up on the shuttle in a couple of years, the craft will be direly needed
08:03<hylje>Celestar: so that people can fetch stuff from it?
08:03<keyweed>Celestar: no everyone needs to return ;)
08:03<Celestar>keyweed: the shuttle is and was a dead end from day 1.
08:03<keyweed>Celestar: i wouldn't say dead. i'd say a sub-optimal design
08:04<keyweed>some might say death trap
08:04<Celestar>keyweed: polticially wrong
08:04<keyweed>Celestar: erh. it's an american craft. they don't do politically correct.
08:04<Celestar>keyweed: it's a 8-launch per year, medium-weight launch vehicle that was designed to make use of the WHOLE Apollo infrastructure.
08:05<keyweed>i think it's main problem it it's overcomplexity
08:05<keyweed>*is it's
08:05<Celestar>now apollo was a program that had 1) more launches, 2) waaay more payload, 3) were two spacecraft, with 4) no real IT support
08:06<Celestar>keyweed: the Oribiter is not more complicated than a Boeing 777
08:06<Celestar>at least not by an order of magnitude
08:06<keyweed>Celestar: but made of 70's tech...
08:06<Celestar>keyweed: The Shuttle was designed to make 40 launches per year. At that rate, it would be a success.
08:07<Celestar>Not building the Saturn II and Saturn INT-20 was a big mistake by the Nixon Administration
08:09<keyweed>the sovjet union shouldn't have fallen apart :P
08:09<Celestar>the ATV is about as large as the Apollo CM/SM
08:10<hylje>in soviet russia the spacecraft launch YOU!!
08:10<Forked>that sounds sort of fun...
08:10<Forked>assuming one can survive it
08:10<keyweed>soviet planning, american engineering, european funding.
08:10<keyweed>that would work :)
08:10<Celestar>er... nope
08:11<Celestar>American Funding, German Engineering, Swiss Planning, Russian dedication.
08:12<keyweed>or afther 5 years you'd end up with mutli milion calculator that can sign the star spangled banner
08:12<keyweed>Celestar: i'm not that sure about american funding
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08:12<Celestar>you know .. NASA spent 3 million dollars in developing a pen that works in space...
08:12<Celestar>the russians just used pencils
08:13<keyweed>at the moment nasa is propably working on ways to print more dollars faster
08:13<Celestar>NASA has about the budget (adjusted for inflation) as it had at the heights of the Apollo Program
08:14<keyweed>where is that going to?
08:14<Celestar>keyweed: good question, isn't it.
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08:14<Celestar>NASA misses 1) A goal and 2) Drive
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08:14<keyweed>the apollo program was a lot more impressive and ambitious then nowadays projects
08:14<Celestar>JFK said "place a human on the Moon and return him safely to Earth by the end of the decade". 1) Goal, 2) Drive that's why it works.
08:15<Celestar>today we have a "go nowhere, do nothing" space policy
08:15<keyweed>yes. i agree.
08:15<Celestar>keyweed: the problem is that we currently live in a total risk-adverse society
08:15*keyweed climbes onto a soapbox
08:15<keyweed>and today i shall pronounce that we shall have a woman on mars before the end of the next decade!
08:16<keyweed>right. goal set. what's next?
08:16<Celestar>keyweed: the irony is: Today we're MUCH better prepared to have someone on Mars in 2019 than we had in 1960 to send a main to the Moon.
08:16<keyweed>erh, global peace whould be good ..let's make it a african american black hanicapped jewish muslim woman.
08:18<Vikthor>keyweed: Your goals are too humble, go bigger, let's get an elephant to Mars :p
08:18<keyweed>Celestar: i still think it just isn't that hard...
08:18<Celestar>keyweed: it's not.
08:18<Celestar>keyweed: it just takes a bit of moxie
08:18<keyweed>humanity has lost it's capacity for major projects.
08:19<Celestar>keyweed: its lost is willingness for major project I daresay
08:19<keyweed>we built pyramids with our bare hands, we're now too lazy to try much of anything except for killing eachother
08:19<keyweed>and even that we do by remote control
08:20<Celestar>keyweed: most people don't kill each other. They're just on autopilot for 40 years from 9 to 5 each day.
08:20<Celestar>like Drones
08:20<keyweed>Celestar: you only need a couple of killers to kill a whole lotta people nowadays
08:20<keyweed>back in the good old days killing took a lot of labour.
08:21<keyweed>swords, horses, armour, logistics imagine the number of FTE your average Lord would need to spend on any serious war efford
08:22<keyweed>ah. we scuck. we should just give up
08:23<Celestar>I don't give up.
08:23<keyweed>well. i've resorted to playing openttd instead of conquering the galaxy.
08:23<keyweed>so technicly, i've given up
08:23<Celestar>usurp world dominace?
08:23<keyweed>i don't want this world. it sucks.
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08:30<Celestar>@openttd bugs
08:30<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 30; Not assigned: 22; Closed this week: 7; Opened this week: 16
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09:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12544 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Codechange: do not force dependency on OTTD internal strings when defining errors.
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09:42<@Belugas>ping Digitalfox
09:43<Sacro>pong Belugas
09:43<@Belugas>pang Sacro ;)
09:48<Mirrakor>is there a chance to "remove" an opponent from a running game? (it started with 2 AI players, I reduced them to 0 - they don't do much, but their buildings still exist..)
09:48<yorick>they'll have to go bankrupt
09:49<yorick>ctrl-alt-C->switch to player stuff and make them ~
09:51<Mirrakor>is ctrl-alt-C cheating?
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09:52<keyweed>no. making your competitors go bankrupt by messing up there business from inside the company isn't cheating.
09:52<keyweed>it's capitalism
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10:07<Digitalfox>pong Belugas =0
10:07<@Belugas>i need your language expertise Digitalfox :)
10:08<@Belugas> i need to be sure he's the transalator of brazilian-portuguese
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10:08<@Belugas>can you verify what'; on that patge?
10:08<Digitalfox>I'm checking :)
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10:12<Mirrakor>is there something like powerplant/coal mine in toyland?
10:13<+glx>toyland has battery farms
10:13<@peter1138>unless you mean the simple industry chain
10:13<@peter1138>in which case i dunno
10:14<Digitalfox>Well belugas he speaks of himself but do not say if he plays OpenTTD, there is only that link that says Games.. So with this page theres no proof he is a translator :)
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10:18<@Belugas>well... the idea is that the transaltor i want to reach has the nivk of fukumori, and it's curious that both fukumori and openttd and brazilain are referenced on the same page
10:18<@Belugas>thus coincidence or the guy i'm looking for
10:20<Phantasm>Would be nice to get more end-game difficulity to OTTD.
10:20<hylje>Phantasm: did you take part in the rails-moves-to-git shitstorm?
10:20<Phantasm>Wtf is that?
10:20<hylje>ruby on rails moved bleeding-edge development to git, people whined.
10:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r12545 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Cleanup: Replace some tables of magic values with already existing functions.
10:21<hylje>well that means those people must install a new tool to get full changelog data
10:21<hylje>and that's very bad, no?
10:22<@Rubidium>what did they use before?
10:22<Phantasm>I didn't install the first tool anyway, so why would I care if it is even more difficult? No longer my problem. ;P
10:22<hylje>Rubidium: svn
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10:24<@Rubidium>probably too much people wanted to diff different versions or see logs and the server broke under the stress
10:24<Mirrakor>peter1138: indeed - I mean the simple industry chain
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10:24<@Rubidium>diffs between revisions and logs, merge and some more stuff must all be done on the svn server
10:24<@Rubidium>and when that happens a lot, the server is not going to be able to handle that
10:25<@peter1138>once upon a time we had a read-only mirror
10:25<@Rubidium>with git the whole changelog and all versions are downloaded to your computer
10:25<@Rubidium>which reduces the load on the server quite dramatically
10:27<Digitalfox>Belugas I found this page and it says games Active and Inactive, it seems for what i understand we could be the translator
10:27<@Rubidium>and make diffs/logs appear much much faster on your computer
10:27<Digitalfox>*he could be
10:28<Digitalfox>They are some sort of team for multiplayer games
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10:55<Celestar>ATV docked
10:55<@Belugas>Digitalfox, he may be inactive on the playing, but on translation, that's another story
10:55<@Belugas>if ever he is the one we're searcuing...
10:56<Digitalfox>Belugas, :)
10:56<@Belugas>have you seen anywhere where it's possible to contact him?
10:56<Digitalfox>by email?
10:56<@Belugas>yes, as i doubt i would care to phone him ^_^
10:58<Digitalfox>Or better =0 e-mail - uacu [AT] fukumori [DOT] com [DOT] br
11:00<Eddi|zuHause3><hylje> yep, contary to popular belief railroads do get bridged over each other too <-- i'm not against bridges per se, but TTD bridges are way too low [should be 2 or 1.5 tiles] and way too unflexible [bends, signals, long shallow ramps] for my taste
11:00<@peter1138>Digitalfox: well done, that'll now be indexed on SpComb's stupid logs
11:01<Digitalfox>Well just a email.. Don't think it's a big deal.. besides this is IRC not some forum or webpage :P
11:05<@Belugas>SpComb^, can you wipe that out?
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12:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r12546 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt: -Fix: completely remove cases from Brazilian Portuguese translation
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12:55<Bluebear>Hi guys.
12:56<Bluebear>I have a question: Where would my openttd.cfg be located? I've had a scout around but can't seem to find one?
12:57<yorick>on windows, default at my documents/openttd
12:58<Bluebear>Ah, I'll go take a look there
12:58<Bluebear>For some reaosn I was thinking it would be in the main directory
12:58<yorick>it was before 0.6
12:58<yorick>but you can't write there when limited using vista
12:58<+glx>you can still put one in main dir
12:59<Bluebear>Ah, well, I've got mine installed into C:\OpenTTD to prevent that :)
13:01<Bluebear>So, I'd be able to move the cfg to C:\OpenTTD and the game would know where the cfg is still?
13:02<Bluebear>I've just got OpenTTD so I'm still learning the ropes ^^
13:06<@peter1138>heh, so many users still don't get multiuser ways ;)
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13:12<ben_goodger>of course... windows 98 had passworded authentication you could press a "cancel" button to bypass
13:13<hylje>or use the X
13:13<@peter1138>that was more of a 'which user profile do you want to copy over' prompt...
13:14<ben_goodger>yes, but it behaved like passworded authentication
13:14<ben_goodger>there were no permissions in the user files
13:14<ben_goodger>and windows remains essentially unchanged to this day
13:15<@peter1138>unchanged except that profiles are not copied around, and permissions exist now...
13:17<ben_goodger>well, they were never copied around, the my documents folder was simply remapped to the appropriate c:\windows\profiles\ directory
13:17<ben_goodger>and in this respect it is still the same, but with c:\Documents and Settings\ instead
13:17<@peter1138>not in win98
13:18<@peter1138>oh well, can't really remember as it doesn't matter
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13:30<Bluebear>Is it weird that, while the rest of my train fleet is all diesel or whatnot, I still have one or two steam 'heritage' train routes? Does anyone else do this? (Please say yes :( )
13:31<@peter1138>'course we do
13:31<@peter1138>well i do anyway :o
13:32<yorick>'heritage' trains on maglev :)
13:32*yorick imagines 20 trains behind one 63 km/h train
13:33<@Belugas>as long as the route is profitable, why not? plus it's good for tourism ;)
13:33<Patrick`>it's beautiful
13:33<@Belugas>steam puffs on an all electric world
13:33<Patrick`>we're not here to make money, but art
13:33<@Belugas>puff puff puff
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13:33<Patrick`>we need a new railtype after monorail
13:33<@Belugas>Chooooo choooooo!!!
13:34<@Belugas>ho... "We" need...
13:34<yorick>*crazy fuckers*
13:34<Patrick`>max speed of about 200km/h but with weird price modifiers to make it more profitable
13:34<Patrick`>ok, I need.
13:34<Patrick`>I want.
13:34<hylje>Ch..ChgChooo chooo choo Chghghgh
13:34<@Belugas>dare i put it out?
13:34<Patrick`>and all the trains look like the one from back to the future
13:35<@Belugas>I DARE!
13:35<Patrick`>we're so that.
13:35<@Belugas>frankly? yes ;)
13:36<@Belugas>plus, may i point out that with a nicely written grf, you can cahnge the price of rails
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13:37<Bluebear>Hell yes Steampunk. Wouldn't be awesome if there was a nuclear attack or something in 2051, and then people cobbled together some kind of Steampunk world
13:37<Bluebear>(In the game, i mean)
13:38<@Belugas>it would not be awesome at all
13:38<@Belugas>not in my book, anyway...
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13:40<edeca>What's the chance of % loading getting into trunk?
13:40<edeca>Is it too difficult or not liked for a reason?
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13:41<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
13:41<@Belugas>dunno edeca
13:41<@peter1138>stuff will happen when stuff happens
13:41<@Belugas>what's that?
13:41<Wolf01>shit happens
13:42<+glx>edeca: you can use timetabling for a similar result
13:42<@Belugas>ho... the amount of loading toachieve before leaving the station, i guess...
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13:43<edeca>glx: I haven't yet figured timetabling out properly :)
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13:44<edeca>How do you use timetabling effectively.. I assume the time relates to the whole journey between stations
13:45<edeca>So you'd have to figure out how long it takes normally
13:45<edeca>And if you over timetable, surely it could sit there 10 days extra?
13:45<Eddi|zuHause3>there's a "fill out automatically" button that times one rotation of the train
13:45<Eddi|zuHause3>you can then use that as base for the timetable
13:45<edeca>Ar, I'll play
13:46*edeca preferes % loading :)
13:47*Belugas does not, but this is a personal opinion
13:47<henkie>hi, according to the "game mechanics" i can destroy an industry?
13:48<mrfrenzy>turn on the cheat "magic bulldozer"
13:48<henkie>ah :(
13:49<mrfrenzy>also you can make sure it has 100% rating, that gives the highest chance for it do disappear in current code (which I think is broken)
13:50<edeca>What is the criteria for things like patches for % loading getting into trunk? Is it arbitrary or are there rules?
13:52<Noldo>it's basically arbitary
13:52<edeca>That's cool
13:52<@Rubidium>well... completely crappily coded patches don't go in in any case
13:52<edeca>I see too many arguments on the forums, I'm not trying to moan. I was just wondering.
13:52<@Belugas>edeca, rule 1) usefull (on a dev point of view) rule 2) well written and documented rule 3) follows code/comment style rule 4) a dev likes it and proposes it to fellow devs, according 1,2 and 3 are qualified
13:53<edeca>OpenTTD now is so much better than last year, the devs do great :)
13:53<mrfrenzy>yes they are ;)
13:53<mrfrenzy>but I'm so looking forward to the economy remake
13:53<@Belugas>thanks. So it seems that our inclusion policy has some good results ;)
13:53<edeca>I haven't tried tramways yet.. waiting for my current game to get to the right year :D
13:54<edeca>Belugas: I think if you included everything that gets moaned about you'd end up like most of the *in versions :P
13:54<@Belugas>indeed :)
13:54<@Belugas>not a pleasant idea ...
13:54<wonea>agreed, can't wait to read the 0.7 roadmap
13:55<@Belugas>so do we :D
13:55<wonea>hopefully a standalone release, without the need of data files
13:55<Noldo>is there anything on it yet?
13:55<@Belugas>on forums, yes
13:56<wonea>got a link ?
13:56<@Belugas>go on graphics section
13:56<+glx>look for opengfx or something like that
13:57<@Belugas>opengfx, yes i think it is
13:57<@Belugas>impressive work, so far...
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13:58<@peter1138>a bit grey/brown
14:01<hylje>just add bloom
14:01<hylje>and hdr
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14:07<wonea>then all we need is OpenGL clouds and passenger destinations
14:09<jez>hmm, what version of openttd is this?
14:09<jez>i don't recognise that map view, looks quite nice
14:09<@peter1138>that's a scaled down screenshot
14:09<@peter1138>and they named it wrong
14:09<jez>how come?
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14:11<@Belugas>no more, no less
14:11<jez>another thing, a while back (like weeks ago), someone posted a picture of 'rapid servicing' track
14:12<jez>with about 3 service depots in parallel
14:12<jez>anyone happen to have that URL?
14:12<mrfrenzy>how is that going to work?
14:12<mrfrenzy>as soon as the train has choosen a depot it will go there
14:12<mrfrenzy>regardless of if there are other ones that are free
14:12<jez>it has to enter whenever it goes past
14:12<mrfrenzy>aha, that kind of servicing
14:15<jez>someone posted a link to an image of an example but i lost it :-(
14:15<jez>i was gonna save a copypaste of it
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14:37<edeca>wonea: Ew, the fun of openttd is the pretty sprites, no opengl! :)
14:38<@Belugas>i though it was building network :( how wrong was i
14:38<edeca>Well, the fun of the graphics, not the game :)
14:38<edeca>If I want pretty graphics and nothing else, I'll play locomotion :P
14:42<wonea>edeca: hehe
14:42<wonea>edeca: well I can dream!
14:43<wonea>edeca: main thing is for a standalone release to help openttd gain popularity
14:44<@Belugas>locomotion graphics are 8 bits. we already have 32bits ones
14:44<@Belugas>granted not main set, but still
14:45<jez>i hope openttd never requires those graphics
14:45<@Belugas>which ones?
14:45<edeca>Well my point was that I'd rather openttd continued to have excellent features added rather than a huge focus on 3d nonsense or effects. 32 bit graphics to replace the originals and make openttd 100% standalone would be amazing though
14:46<@Rubidium>32bpp is an 'additional' feature; 8 bits graphics will always be needed.
14:46<@Belugas>if i'm not mistaken, decision has been taken to keep on support both, the opengfx as well as standard original ones.
14:47<@Belugas>just one or the other, depending of the user's choice
14:47<@Rubidium>that too
14:47<wonea>edeca: agreed, the new 32bpp graphics look awesome
14:47<wonea>especially the extra zoom levels
14:47<wonea>very exciting
14:47<@Rubidium>and probably that the original ones override the opengfx ones
14:47*Belugas nods
14:47<@Belugas>and hello Rubidium :)
14:47<jez>the standard ones dont have to be the original ones
14:48<jez>there is an 8bpp gfx replacement project, which i prefer
14:48<jez>people's desire to zoom in 100x is bizarre
14:48<@Belugas>u s e r c h o i c e
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14:48<jez>you will get bored of extra zoom levels in 0.1sec
14:48<@Belugas>from an artist';s point of view, no, it's not bizare
14:48<jez>artist? lol
14:49<jez>you're not painting, you're playing a game
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14:49<edeca>jez: Some people enjoy making the graphics
14:49<wonea>user created 8bpp and 32bpp then I'll be happy to try both
14:49<@Belugas>and those who are building those graphics?
14:49<edeca>jez: And if it costs nothing to add to the game, well :)
14:49<edeca>jez: Like some people enjoy writing web applications or funny open source train games ;)
14:50<@Belugas>and for the record, i kinda like not play, but rather code
14:50<jez>why did they use a flash object to name that product's price?
14:51<@Belugas>jez is evading the discussion ^_^
14:52<edeca>Belugas: avoiding? :)
14:52<@Belugas>all of the above :D
14:52<hylje>stack overflow
14:56<@Rubidium>50GB data limit a month? That sucks...
14:56<@Rubidium>especially for that price
14:57<yorick>data limit? That sucks...
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14:57<@Rubidium>yorick: every connection has a data limit
14:57<jez>heh, i'm with about the only residential ISP in the UK without a data limit
14:57<yorick>other than that, it's called a "Fair Use Policy"
14:58<yorick>and its about 1 TB
14:58<yorick>or something you'll never reach
14:59<@Rubidium>haha ;)
15:00<@Rubidium>IIRC TrueBrain did reach that once
15:00<@Rubidium>within a day
15:00*peter1138 has no data limit
15:00<yorick>EVERYONE has
15:00<@Rubidium>peter1138: you do ;) it's just not that obvious
15:00<@Rubidium>and it changes with the length of the month
15:01<yorick>or called "data limit"
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15:02<edeca>No limit if you steal your neighbours wifi ;)
15:02<edeca>Just move along if it runs out
15:03<@Rubidium>edeca: even then you've got a limit
15:03<Bluebear>Yay Genesis!
15:03<Bluebear>Awesome music.
15:03<yorick>oh no, Catholics!
15:03<@peter1138>heh, so i do
15:03<+glx>how can I have data limit with TV and IP phone included ?
15:04<@peter1138>less than 40GB/month or i get rate limited at peak time
15:05<@peter1138>web & email is not rate limited
15:05<@Rubidium>glx: well, your wire can transmit say 20 mbit/s, so 20/8*3600*24*30/1024 is the data limit in GB for this month
15:05<+glx>no it can't :)
15:05<+glx>5mbps is the max for a 2800m line
15:06<+glx>with 50dB attenuation
15:06<+glx>yes ADSL2+
15:06*Rubidium wants the worlds fastest home connection ;)
15:06*glx wants fiber
15:06*Rubidium better move to that old lady in Sweden
15:06<yorick>Rubidium has to live in places in holland with fiber
15:06<@peter1138>is it me
15:06<yorick>my town is getting it
15:06<@peter1138>or is every jeeves & wooster episode the same?
15:07<@Rubidium>yorick: mine too, but well.. not quite my house
15:07<@Rubidium>but even then it is *slow*
15:09<@Rubidium>that old lady in Sweden I'm talking about have a 40 Gbps connection
15:10<@Rubidium>should be enough for 10 super hi-vision channels ;)
15:10<@Rubidium>uncompressed ofcourse
15:11<@Rubidium>hmm... oops... only one super hi-vision channel uncompressed
15:11<yorick>4 Gbps?
15:11<@Rubidium>it gives nice pictures though
15:12<@Rubidium>nah, super hi-vision is 24 Gbps uncompressed
15:12<Prof_Frink>super hi-vision? How low res.
15:12<@Rubidium>it beats hdtv
15:12<@Rubidium>to sad they have only one super hi-vision camera in the world
15:13<Prof_Frink>Oh wait, it *is* UHDV. Never mind.
15:14<@Rubidium>and it just needs 22.2 surround sound to suppress the enormous noise that is generated to cool the beamers and the storage system of the 30 minutes of film they have
15:14<Eddi|zuHause3>yay, and i'll have to stick to my 384kbit for the next century or so
15:15<@Rubidium>and to pal and/or hdtv :(
15:16<edeca>Hrm, was the "leave if another train arrives" only in miniin ages ago? I haven't played for a while, can't remember what was extra or not :
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>it was
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>but you can also use timetables for that
15:17<@Rubidium>because NHK (the makers of super hi-vision) aren't (by law) allowed to sell the stuff to the public (they have to find a partner that then sells it, which they do not intend to do any time soon)
15:17<mrfrenzy>best would be if you could choose "leave-train-that-is-most-full-if-all-platforms-occupied" ;)
15:19<edeca>Eddi|zuHause3: How can you use timetables?
15:19<edeca>Eddi|zuHause3: Just by timing it?
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15:22<Eddi|zuHause3>what kind of game would this be if every strategy was layed out in front of you?
15:23<ln>lay, laid, laid
15:23<edeca>Eddi|zuHause3: Eh?
15:23<edeca>Eddi|zuHause3: "leave when another train enters the station" is hardly cheating :)
15:23<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, you need to get... ln
15:23<edeca>Eddi|zuHause3: You might not like it, but that's fine
15:23<Eddi|zuHause3>nobody said anything about cheating
15:24<@Belugas>i know it's only rock and roll
15:24<@Belugas>but i like it
15:24<edeca>s/cheating/making it easy/
15:24<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean exploring/exploiting the possibilities of the existing system
15:25<edeca>It's just not what I'm used to, I need to play with timetabling more
15:25<edeca>I am stuck 6 months ago with the last miniin
15:25<Eddi|zuHause3>6 months? you got really stuck in time ;)
15:25<Eddi|zuHause3>it's more like 16 months
15:26<edeca>Perhaps, I forget :)
15:26<+glx>hmm I think last miniin update was with 0.5.3 release
15:27<@Rubidium>glx: wrong, 0.5.0
15:27<@Belugas>Lost Somewhere in tiiiiiimme
15:27<Eddi|zuHause3># Seems like it was yesterday
15:27<+glx>well still long time ago ;)
15:28<Eddi|zuHause3># when i saw your face
15:28<Eddi|zuHause3># you told me how proud you were
15:28<Eddi|zuHause3># but i walked away
15:28<Eddi|zuHause3># if only i'd known
15:28<Eddi|zuHause3># what i know today
15:29<Eddi|zuHause3># i would hold you in my arms
15:29<Eddi|zuHause3># i would take the pain away
15:29<Eddi|zuHause3># thank you for all you've done
15:29<Eddi|zuHause3># forgive all your mistakes
15:29<Eddi|zuHause3># there's nothing i wouldn't do
15:30<Eddi|zuHause3># to hear your voice again
15:30<Eddi|zuHause3># sometimes i wanna call you
15:30<Eddi|zuHause3># but i know you won't be there
15:30<Eddi|zuHause3># oh i'm sorry for
15:30<Eddi|zuHause3># blaming you
15:31<Eddi|zuHause3># for everything
15:31*glx warns Eddi|zuHause3
15:31<ln>it's english, no doubt.
15:31<Eddi|zuHause3>(# i just couldn't do)
15:31<+glx>right it's english, but it's long
15:31<hylje>use a pastebin!
15:32<Eddi|zuHause3>(# and i've hurt myself, by hurting you) [done, honest]
15:32<Eddi|zuHause3>it's too great of a song ;)
15:32<ln>glx: the topic does not disallow typing all of shakespeare's work here.
15:32<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: I most likely wouldn't like it if you hold me in your arms...
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3>how do you know if you didn't try it? :p
15:33<yorick># hashing!
15:34<@Rubidium>it's sharping ;)
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause3>personally, i prefer ♭ flattening
15:39<Eddi|zuHause3>i can't stop listening to this song... why?
15:40<Eddi|zuHause3>and quite rightfully so ;)
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15:51<Bluebear>Question; is there a way to stop steam trains from disapearing from the new vehicles list?
15:51-!-hjalte [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:51<@peter1138>enable the "vehicles never expire" option in patch settings
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15:52<+glx>and type "resetengines" in console if they already disapeared
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15:55<Bluebear>How do I get the console up?
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12547 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: invisibility options to make objects invisible instead of transparent
15:56<@peter1138>Bluebear: tilde
15:56<@peter1138>aka "key next to 1"
15:56<@peter1138>aka "not tilde on uk layout"
15:57<sisif>Hello guys. Can somebody please help me with setting up a dedicated openttd server? I`ve got it all up and running. The only issue I just can`t solve: the rcon is not workin. Each time I try to use it (rcon_pw <pass> <command>) I get this error: "Error: This command/variable is only available to a network server". Anny suggestion ?
15:57<+glx>or the questionmark menu
15:57<Bluebear>Got them back ^^
15:57<+glx>sisif: you can't modify rcon password from outside
15:58<@peter1138>rcon pass "command"
15:58<sisif>Oh damn. I feel so stupid.
15:59<sisif>I thought that "rcon_pw" was the right string to use :D
16:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12548 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove strings removed in r12547 from all language files
16:01<+glx>rcon_pw is not a command anyway, it's a variable :)
16:03<sisif>thanks :)
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16:15<remaxim>hi Belugas
16:21<@Belugas>hello remaxim
16:21<@Belugas>sorry, i've got no news for you :(
16:21<@Belugas>i 've not even completed the load of the tracks on my recorder :(
16:21<@Belugas>infact, i've not relly touched my guuitar for the past month
16:21<remaxim>that's quite a shame ...
16:22<@Belugas>i know
16:22<@Belugas>i'm thinking over bringing the stuff here, at work
16:22<@Belugas>about the only place where i can play quietly
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16:23<@Belugas>and since i cannot compile ottd at work, well.. you can consider it free time :)
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16:23<bowman>heh for some reasone I've got "guuitar" on highlight :P
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16:23<bowman>some artefact from guitar hero sessions no doubt
16:23<@Belugas>well.. i do play it with a bow man
16:24*bowman favors the plastic variety
16:27<Eddi|zuHause3>i've only taken a few guitar lessons in elementary school
16:27<bowman>no lessons here, but I've got 5* on every song in every game, on expert (well almost!)
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause3>well, that was before i learned a _real_ instrument ;)
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16:39<remaxim>Eddi|zuHause3, so how does a real instrument look like for you?
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16:45<Bluebear>Damn net connection
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17:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12549 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp:
17:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1900](r11547): respect type of selected signal when building more signals using the GUI
17:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: do not check patch settings but check if the Signal GUI window is open instead
17:01<remaxim>that's what you call a real instrument? I thought you ment stuff like synthesizers and that stuff:
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>when i say real i mean REAL
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17:05<remaxim>:D ... they aren't imaginary as well ...
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17:21<dragonhorseboy>just wondering but any of you know about using saves from 0.6.0-beta5 in 0.6.0 (its a multiplayer map if that helps)
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17:24<dragonhorseboy>heh....someone name themself after a company ^-^
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>what should we know about that?
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17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>"aber oma, wieso hast du so hängende ... ohren?"
17:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12550 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Change: the signal GUI is now persistent - has the same data when it is reopened
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18:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12551 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_object.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: remove unneeded AIObject:: (don't use AIObject:: inside the AIObject class ;))
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18:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12552 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (5 files): [NoAI] -Change: do not force the use of StringIDs when setting errors.
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18:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12553 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp settings.cpp): -Fix (r11547): redraw the signal GUI when the signal drag density changes in the patch settings and vice versa
18:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12554 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_error.cpp ai_error.hpp ai_object.cpp ai_object.hpp): [NoAI] -Codechange: add more typing information.
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19:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12555 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError for AICompany.
19:04<Yexo>Sorry, should have gone in #openttd.noai
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19:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12556 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r6001): remove fences with fields when loading old savegames, looks better
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20:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12557 /trunk/src/ (music.cpp music.h strgen/strgen.cpp): -Cleanup: use MAX_PATH at two more places
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22:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r12558 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Feature: subsidy window can now be resized.
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 04 00:00:19 2008