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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-04

---Logopened Fri Apr 04 00:00:19 2008
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02:44<Celestar>morning
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03:15<Noldo>morning
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04:22<jordi>ugh
04:22<jordi>I got to 2004 or so
04:22<jordi>and trams weren't available yer
04:22<jordi>yet
04:22<larsemil>think you have to include a grf-file for them.
04:22<larsemil>i had to. did not have them in 2030 when i started a game to check
04:22<jordi>when should I expect them?
04:23<jordi>larsemil: I added the newgrf thing before starting the game
04:23<jordi>I can build tracks and stations
04:23<jordi>but I never get a train
04:26<jordi>hm
04:27<jordi>so I need a "tram set" which isn't included in 0.6.0 or what?
04:29<jordi>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=33415 this?
04:30<Celestar>jordi: it is included I think. you just have to activate it
04:31<Celestar>I might be mistaken
04:31<Celestar>I'm not
04:31<Frostregen>no, your right
04:31<Celestar>it's included in 0.6.0
04:32<Frostregen>but strangely not in trunk
04:32<Celestar>yeah I noticed
04:32<Celestar>that's why I was wondering
04:32<Frostregen>yeah
04:32<jordi>then I can't understand where these new trucks, buses and trams are not available in 2004
04:32<jordi>does that make sense?
04:32<@peter1138>it's included, but not activated
04:33<Celestar>jordi: you'Ve got to activatet he file
04:33<@peter1138>oh, you added it
04:33<Celestar>load average: 12.04, 6.94, 4.27
04:33<Celestar>crap :S
04:33<Celestar>stupid updater
04:33<jordi>does it make sense that I do have the depot, tracks and so on graphics but no vehicles?
04:33<Celestar>jordi: did you or did you not activate the tram grf?
04:34<Frostregen>those are disabled by default, if nothing is available. (but it is a patch setting)
04:34<jordi>Celestar: I am not sure now. If I hand't, I wouldn't be able to build tracks, right?
04:34<Celestar>jordi: false
04:34<jordi>ew
04:34<jordi>then I guess I got it wrong
04:35<jordi>besides the newgrf addition in the options menu, what else do I need then?
04:35<Ammller>Distributing NewGRFs? Is that a new policy of OpenTTD or "just" trams?
04:35<jordi>Ammller: trams look like a core feature to me
04:35<jordi>and it needs the file
04:36<Celestar>Ammller: it somehow depends on the license of the newgrf
04:36<Frostregen>http://wiki.openttd.org/images/c/cc/Configure_Patches_Interface_0.6.0.beta3.png
04:36<Frostregen>last thing
04:36<jordi>oh, is it common to see non-gpl newgrfs around here?
04:36<Celestar>jordi: most file that contain art in some for are non-gpl
04:37<Celestar>jordi: they often have other "free" licenses, but not npl
04:37<jordi>"Use the advance vehicle list"?
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04:41<Frostregen>should be "Show building tools when no suitable vehicles are available"
04:47<Eddi|zuHause2>jordi: often it is "free to use, but not to distribute", so the creator can rotate out old versions of the grf by not making them available anymore
04:54<Ammller>hmm, generictrams is not in trunk
04:54<Ammller>so we still need it in the pack too
04:55<Ammller>its a little bit confusing
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05:09<jordi>Frostregen: that would give me the vehicles?
05:09<jordi>sounds like I'd hve the menu available, not greyed out
05:09<Frostregen>no, but disable the building tools
05:09<jordi>I had the menu disabled when I first tried
05:09<jordi>then I added the newgrf file and it worked
05:10<jordi>but still got no vehicles
05:10<Eddi|zuHause2>you won't get trams in a road depot
05:10<Frostregen>erm
05:10<jordi>it was a tram depot
05:10<Frostregen>k
05:10<Eddi|zuHause2>just wanted to make sure ;)
05:11<jordi>ok :)
05:11<Frostregen>i just started a game in 2000 and had lots of trams
05:11<Frostregen>could you check if the grf is really loaded?
05:11<Frostregen>you have to add the grf AND press apply
05:12<Eddi|zuHause2>adding grfs midgame is not recommended anyway
05:12<Eddi|zuHause2>suggestion: try adding it a second time, then type "resetengines" in the console
05:13<jordi>Eddi|zuHause2: ok
05:14<jordi>I'm not at home now
05:14<jordi>and I shouldn't load openttd at work :)
05:14<Eddi|zuHause2>if that doesn't work, start a new game and make sure the set is loaded before you start
05:16<jordi>ah right
05:16<jordi>the game was an old one
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06:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12559 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (6 files): [NoAI] -Add: SetLastError support for AIAirport.
07:00<@Belugas>[04:54] <Ammller> its a little bit confusing <-- no, it make sens, as trunk would become quite big. For nothing, in fact...
07:00<hylje>for trams!
07:00<Ammller>Belugas: so it won't go to be default? (was just a "special" action?
07:00<hylje>generic trams.
07:01<@Belugas>for releases, it's fine. for trunk it's too big for nothing
07:01<@Belugas>and no, no defaults
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07:03<Ammller>90k is too big?
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07:03<Ammller>was just wondering, if I can delete it from "our" GRFPack
07:04<@Belugas>it is when you're svn co, yes
07:04<@Belugas>your decision, not our :)
07:04<@Belugas>anyway, got to go breakfast
07:04<Ammller>well, we play with trunk, so no. :-)
07:05<Ammller>I searched in the meantime the branch ottd_grf but didn't find it there... :-)
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07:08<Ammller>I would suggest, you should make a exception for trams and rivers, those 2 are the only GRFs you could miss in a plain install. (or are there more?)
07:12<SmatZ>!logs
07:12<SpComb^>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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07:48<Celestar>my "Freeze" spell still does no dmg :(
07:50<Noldo>what are you playing?
07:50<Celestar>just an rpg
07:50<hylje>yay
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08:37<ln>http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB11&Number=1016238&page=0&fpart=all
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12:22<Trond>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1904
12:23<Trond>hello lordAz
12:23<SmatZ>Trond: can you reproduce it in a non-modified version?
12:23<+glx>Trond: what patch are applied?
12:24<Trond>a few
12:24<Trond>daylenght, distant joint stations, middle stop
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12:25<Trond>I dont have a clean build tbh, but I could always make one...
12:25<Trond>unless someone have a clean trunk build and can reproduce
12:25<SmatZ>Trond: it could be caused by r12371
12:26<SmatZ>can you verify it works in r12370 and doesn't work in r12371 ?
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12:26<Trond>didnt happen in 12392
12:27<Trond>I think... now I got unsure, so I have to check
12:28<Trond>did happen in r12392 aswell :P
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12:29<Trond>not in 12289 :P I dont have 12370 nor 12371
12:30<Trond>I have 12365, and it didnt happen there...
12:31<SmatZ>ok
12:31<SmatZ>thanks
12:31<Trond>hope that helps a bit atleast
12:31<LordAzamath>hi trond ..
12:32<Trond>hi again lord :) how are you?
12:32<LordAzamath>I'm fine :)
12:32<LordAzamath>you?
12:32<Trond>I will try to make a clean build of latest trunk, but svn is been acting up a bit today,.,
12:32<Trond>I'm fine thanks :)
12:33*LordAzamath saw that generic trams came with 0.6..
12:33<Trond>yeah, isnt that nice :)
12:33<LordAzamath>sure
12:33<LordAzamath>although I wont be playin it now :P
12:33<Trond>did you notice subsidy window is now sizeabel too :) in trunk :P
12:33<Dirtbag>I can host online servers ;)
12:33<Trond>wount be playing :O why? busy at school?
12:34<LordAzamath>Trond: Other interests tbh
12:34<Trond>ouch
12:34<Trond>:P
12:34<Trond>girls, or something more important? like games :D
12:35<LordAzamath>girls are almost the most important.. only the earthworm is more
12:35<LordAzamath>important
12:36<Trond>hehe, so says my girlfriend... except for the earthworm part :P
12:36<Trond>SmatZ: Also happened with a clean r12562
12:36<LordAzamath>listen to Maedhros
12:36<LordAzamath>!
12:36<LordAzamath>"Signature
12:36<LordAzamath>No-one's more important than the earthworm."
12:36<Trond>hehe
12:37<Trond>without insects the world would die in less than 50 years they say ;)
12:37<SmatZ>Trond: most likely caused by r12371
12:37<Sacro>return (test == true)? ( (test == false)? false : true) : ((test == false) ? false : true);
12:38<LordAzamath>ok.. cya sometime
12:38<Trond>SmatZ: Ok. Not a major thing anyway, so not a very high priority bug imho
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12:38<Trond>cya lord. Be Nice
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12:59<@Belugas>Sacro : return test;
12:59<@Belugas>boooooo
12:59<Sacro>Belugas: that's just too easy :p
13:00*Sacro has to make a start on his C#+XNA assignment
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13:15<Wolf01>hello
13:16<Sacro>Bonjourno
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13:37<ln>Bjarni!
13:37<ln>over 30 minutes is not an adequate response time!
13:38<@Bjarni>I guess my ping to Finland sucks
13:38<ln>and to all other countries too.
13:39<ln>Bjarni: http://kuvat.vaunut.org/47447.jpg
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14:06<@Bjarni>ln: such a train isn't allowed here unless some of the locomotives count as wagons and hence turns off their engines
14:06<@Bjarni>this is for safety reasons
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14:07<mrfrenzy>it would be a waste of fuel to have more than two locos running anyways
14:07<@Bjarni>no
14:07<mrfrenzy>no?
14:08<@Bjarni>say the max load of those engines is 600 tons (that's a guess more or less at random)
14:08<@Bjarni>say you have a total weight of the wagons to 1500 tons
14:08<@Bjarni>then it takes at least 3 locomotives to pull them
14:08<mrfrenzy>ooh sorry I didn't see that the train continued
14:08<mrfrenzy>thought it only had three wagons
14:08<mrfrenzy>(which looked kind of ridiculous)
14:09<mrfrenzy>logically it is a very loooong train
14:09<mrfrenzy>then it makes sense
14:09<ln>Bjarni: the description (which i left out due to English Only rule) says that only the first three are pulling.
14:10<@Bjarni>I have seen a train consisting of 7 locomotives and no wagons
14:10<@Bjarni>the front one was pulling 6 switching engines from one switching yard to another one
14:10<@Bjarni>all the switching engines were off
14:10<@Bjarni>I think
14:13<ln>Bjarni: additional details: the model in the front is still in use, but the three bigger ones have been history since 2000.
14:13<@Bjarni>I thought so
14:14<@Bjarni>well I didn't guess at 2000 but still I made a guess on what engines you guys use based on design ;)
14:14<@Bjarni>http://www.veterantoget.dk/gallery/gallery1/images/image005.jpg <-- this is the train with the most locomotives that I have actually been in
14:15<@Bjarni>only the front had the engines on
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14:18<ln>Digitalfox: how's your C++?
14:18<Digitalfox>Not bad ln :) But still I have lot's to learn even if it's just thebasics ;)
14:19<Digitalfox>The funny and cool part is that now when i look to open code I actually start to understand what most things mean :)
14:19<ln>lots
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14:22<@Bjarni>Digitalfox: http://apcmag.com/we_can_transform_single_thread_to_multithread_intel.htm <-- is this what you are trying to do?
14:22<@Bjarni>I wouldn't mind it XD
14:23<Digitalfox>Bjarni shit that's too simple for me, I'm trying way more hard stuff =0
14:24<@Bjarni>like ASM multithreading?
14:24<Digitalfox>But Bjarni why don't you try that is so simple lol
14:24<mrfrenzy>here at the rock festivals they run trains with like five Y1, I wonder how many engines are running in those
14:24<Patrick`>threads were an appropriate paradigm when we had multiple processes and one processor
14:25<mrfrenzy>how many tonnes are reasonable to pull with 320kW?
14:26<Digitalfox>Well to be honest coding is not my dream of doing in my next years, but networks so this is just to pass the exams :)
14:26<@Bjarni>that depends on a lot of stuff
14:26<@Bjarni>like gearing
14:26<@Bjarni>and grade
14:27<Alberth>threads are an appropiate paradigm when we have one programs running at a quad core machine
14:27<@Bjarni>if you is satisfied with say 30-40 km/h then you can pull say 4-500 tons if the grades aren't too bad
14:27<@Bjarni>but acceleration would suck
14:28<mrfrenzy>na I'm talking 70-90 km/h here
14:28<mrfrenzy>http://www.tagkompaniet.se/www/fordon/foton/Y1.jpg
14:28<mrfrenzy>max speed 130, but I think they rarely make over 90
14:28*Bjarni starts to calculate
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14:29<@Bjarni>however I guess that motorcar isn't designed for a huge load
14:31<mrfrenzy>no, net weight is 45 ton, takes about 150 passengers
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14:31<@Bjarni>mrfrenzy: I guess if you use correct gearing and stuff then you could do like 60 km/h with a load of 150 tons (including engine)
14:31<@Bjarni>but this is like max load
14:31<@Bjarni>this is when the engine is maxed out and it just maintains the speed
14:32<@Bjarni>naturally you don't want that on a regular basis
14:32<mrfrenzy>aah, then I guess they would be running atleast two engines in a four wagon train
14:33<@Bjarni>usually such railcars are designed to pull 1 or 2 cars so a 4 unit train consist of two locomotives
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14:34<mrfrenzy>aah
14:34<@Bjarni>a 6 unit train would also use 2 locomotives ;)
14:34<mrfrenzy>hanging around here is dangerous, I might soon start spending too much time on train ;)
14:35<@Bjarni>oe 3 depending on the power of the engines
14:35<mrfrenzy>6 units is max possible
14:35<@Bjarni>I guess with 320kW it will only use 2 locomotives
14:35<@Bjarni>a max of 6 units is fairly common
14:36<@Bjarni>the airbrakes might not even be designed for the lag in trains longer than that
14:37<mrfrenzy>hmm, you mean the last units will break later because of the time it takes for the air to travel?
14:37<@Bjarni>yes
14:38<@Bjarni>but with trains designed to be this short they sometimes cut expenses and make a simple brake
14:38<@Bjarni>meaning that the driver just lets out a certain amount of air
14:39<@Bjarni>then the pressure in the rear is higher than the front and when he just wants to maintain the pressure it evens out and raises in the front
14:39<@Bjarni>so controlling how much the train actually brakes is more tricky than usual
14:39<@Bjarni>and becomes much harder as the train increase length
14:39<mrfrenzy>aah, so driving a multi-unit train takes a little more effort and knowledge from the driver
14:40<@Bjarni>it depends on how the brake handle valves are designed
14:40<mrfrenzy>there are a lot of electromechanical relays in those trains
14:40<@Bjarni>if they decided to spend "enough" on it then he controls the pressure in an air tank and then valves will ensure that the pressure in the brake is the same as that tank
14:40<mrfrenzy>you will hear them clicking all the timde if you hang around near the front
14:41<@Bjarni>sounds a bit old
14:41<@Bjarni>but still reliable ;)
14:41<@Bjarni>I presume it's the engine remote control
14:41<mrfrenzy>yeah, from 1980
14:41<mrfrenzy>I've never seen one break down
14:41<@Bjarni>the system that ensures that all engines delivers equal power at any given time
14:42<mrfrenzy>I wonder if they have one 320kW engine or several smaller
14:42<Eddi|zuHause2>only one time i was in a train that announced it could not go on and we had to take the next train going from the other platform in a few minutes
14:43<Prof_Frink>The *train* announced that?
14:43<@Bjarni>mrfrenzy: usually DMUs has one engine on each bogie
14:43<mrfrenzy>okay
14:43<Prof_Frink>"I'm sorry, Dave, I can't take you to the next station"
14:43<mrfrenzy>there is the drivers location: http://www.jarnvag.net/bild/vagnguide/forarplatsY11311_2002.jpg
14:43<mrfrenzy>it still looks the same today
14:43<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: wait, your tains don't talk?
14:43<@Bjarni>I was once ordered to leave a train because the line closed down. There was a fire in a train up ahead so the train could go nowhere
14:44<mrfrenzy>he's braking with his left hand and controlling the speed with his right
14:44<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: They only say "The next station is Morninton Crescent" and "Mind the Gap"
14:44<@Bjarni>interesting
14:44<@Bjarni>I control with left and brake with right :)
14:44<Prof_Frink>And, on occasion "Exterminate!"
14:45<Eddi|zuHause2>all other instances of train-not-going-anywhere was due to "person damage"
14:45<Prof_Frink>Not "passenger action"?
14:45<mrfrenzy>it's also has some kind of intelligence, if he sets the right lever on a certain setting and the train is standing still, it will accelerate up to a certain speed and then keep that speed
14:45<Prof_Frink>Which is Underground-speak for "Someone jumped in front of a train"
14:45<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: ?
14:45<@Bjarni>btw that fire in a train turned out to be a cold V20 diesel engine in full power turning on the smoke detector at a station
14:46<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it's official speak for "someone jumped in front of train"
14:47<@Bjarni>we call that "hit person" (sounds a bit more sane when it's not translated)
14:47<@Bjarni>and it includes every possible way of hitting a person
14:48<mrfrenzy>we actually had a collision here between an Y1 and a trailer
14:48<@Bjarni>including that one time when a guy wanted to commit suicide and prepared to jump off a bridge and a train pantograph hit his foot and pull him with it
14:48<mrfrenzy>fortunately the Y1 had no passengers, and it hit the end of the empty trailer
14:48<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Including the driver getting out and punching someone?
14:49<@Bjarni>he survived (surprisingly enough) and now the railroad had a driving train with a man lying on the roof
14:49<@Bjarni>under the catenary
14:49<Prof_Frink>Hehe, pant graph
14:49<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: I hope they fined him for not having a valid ticket
14:50<@Bjarni><Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Including the driver getting out and punching someone? <-- no that would more likely be "worker endangered by passenger"
14:50<Eddi|zuHause2>aren't there like high voltage wires on top of an engine?
14:50<@Bjarni>it was the 1500 V line
14:50<@Bjarni>if it had been the 25.000 V line then even his rubber shoes wouldn't have protected him
14:50<Eddi|zuHause2>and that is not high?
14:51<mrfrenzy>1500V doesn't jump through more than 1.5mm of rubber
14:51<@Bjarni>1500 V is deadly but it's possible to protect yourself by using some sort of isolation like rubber. 25 kV fries you and your insulation
14:52<mrfrenzy>http://www.wighsnews.se/newsbilder/07jul632.jpg this caused 800m of track to be replaced
14:52<@Bjarni>heh
14:52<@Bjarni>how fast was the train going?
14:52<mrfrenzy>http://www.wighsnews.se/newsbilder/07jul633.jpg
14:53<mrfrenzy>I don't think very fast
14:53<Eddi|zuHause2>in germany, maximum breaking distance is 1km (from speeds <160km/h)
14:53<mrfrenzy>because of the curve and the train still mostly on the track
14:53<@Bjarni>a few years ago we had train driving 160 km/h and the track gave in under it
14:53<@Bjarni>so the rear bogie derailed at 160 km/h o_O
14:53<Eddi|zuHause2>eeeek... driving on left...
14:54<mrfrenzy>those trains normally drive att 200km/h though
14:54<@Bjarni>the train just stopped and then nothing
14:54<@Bjarni>no injuries or anything
14:54<@Bjarni>the train was easy to fix
14:54<@Bjarni>and the track was replaced
14:54<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause2> eeeek... driving on left... <-- they have always done that in Sweden
14:55<mrfrenzy>ooh man http://www.wighsnews.se/newsbilder/07maj729.jpg
14:55<@Bjarni>which turned out to be an issue when building a bridge between Denmark and Sweden
14:55<Eddi|zuHause2>it still scares the crap out of me
14:55<mrfrenzy>ehm, we are driving on the right?
14:55<@Bjarni>since it contains a double tracked line
14:55<@Bjarni><mrfrenzy> ehm, we are driving on the right? <-- not the trains
14:55<@Bjarni>the cars moved from left to right hand driving in.... 1967 I think
14:55<mrfrenzy>when they meet at my closest station they meet on the right side
14:56<@Bjarni>single tracked line?
14:56<mrfrenzy>I very rarely have traveled on double track so I don't know about that
14:56<mrfrenzy>yes
14:56<@Bjarni>that explains it
14:56<@Bjarni>or could explain it
14:57<@Bjarni>the first train might stop at the curved track (greatest speed reduction) and then the other one can benefit from a track with a higher speed limit
14:57<@Bjarni>but this only really matters if only one of them has to stop
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>mrfrenzy: you can easily determine the driving side from the side the signals are on
14:57<mrfrenzy>aah, if there are no passengers getting on or off only one train will stop
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>except when the signals are placed on the other side, which usually means they have some kind of arrow plate indicating this
14:58<mrfrenzy>okay I will go look at the signals tomorrow ;)
14:58<mrfrenzy>this saab http://www.wighsnews.se/newsbilder/07maj209.jpg
14:58<mrfrenzy>lost it's front wheel http://www.wighsnews.se/newsbilder/07maj210.jpg
14:58<@Bjarni>there is a railline not far from here where the speed limit in the curved track used to be 25 km/h until very recently. The speed limit in the strait track is (and was) 75 km/h
14:59<@Bjarni>they did some stuff to it so now the speed limit in the curved track is 40 km/h
14:59<@Bjarni>passengers still prefer the train to go like 20 km/h due to the curve though :/
14:59<mrfrenzy>aah
14:59<mrfrenzy>why oh why do people stop on their cars on the track?
14:59<mrfrenzy>http://www.wighsnews.se/newsbilder/07april602.jpg
14:59<mrfrenzy>ever had a collision bjarni ?
15:00<@Bjarni>a train/train collision?
15:00<@Bjarni>no
15:00<mrfrenzy>no, train/other thing
15:00<mrfrenzy>car/person/whjatever
15:00<@Bjarni>you usually only have only one of those :P
15:00<mrfrenzy>I thought you were driving trains?
15:00<mrfrenzy>maybe I misunderstood ;)
15:00<@Bjarni>no I haven't really hit anything
15:01<@Bjarni>but I had a near collision a few times
15:01<mrfrenzy>this was were the train hit a trailer only a few kms from here http://www.wighsnews.se/newsbilder/07maj471.jpg
15:01<mrfrenzy>the driver jumped on the floor and didn't hurt a bone
15:01<@Bjarni>like I have been like 10 cm from hitting a vacuum cleaner in a repair shop
15:01<mrfrenzy>hehe
15:02<@Bjarni>I have been like 3-5 cm from hitting a deer at 60 km/h.... now that wasn't fun at all
15:03<mrfrenzy>I can imageine that
15:03<mrfrenzy>I've been close to hitting a car in the winter once
15:04<@Bjarni>in your car?
15:04<mrfrenzy>yes
15:04<Patrick`>smooth
15:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r12568 /extra/ottd_grf/palettes/openttd.gpl: -Add: the TTD win gimp palette
15:05<mrfrenzy>here we have pedestrian crossings at the exits of roundabouts in some places
15:05<@Bjarni>everything in cars goes really fast
15:05<mrfrenzy>and since a few years there is a law that says a car must stop for any pedestrian
15:05<mrfrenzy>so a pedestrian can just walk out into the streat
15:05<mrfrenzy>and all traffic in the roundabout suddenly stops
15:05<@Bjarni>it's different from trains where all your actions have a responcetime
15:05<Patrick`>hah
15:06<@Bjarni>mrfrenzy: I noticed pedestrians in Sweden
15:06<Ammler>mrfrenzy: same here (CH)
15:06<mrfrenzy>it's so stupid
15:06<mrfrenzy>they fail to realize cars have a longer stopping distance than pedestrians
15:06<@Bjarni>in fact I really wondered about it last time I was in Sweden
15:06<mrfrenzy>(the lawmakers that is)
15:07<mrfrenzy>the big problem is, many pedestrians also don't realise that
15:07<mrfrenzy>we have had a 30% increase in pedestrian accidents since that law was introduced
15:07<mrfrenzy>because they think the cars can stop in a blink, and it's their right to jump out infront of the cars
15:07<@Bjarni>I waited at a traffic light (as a pedestrian) and I had to cross 5 lanes. Like 10 other people waited as well. I was the only one standing there when it turned green. Everybody else walked across while it was red if they thought they could do it before the next car arrived
15:08<Ammler>how long does it exist in your country?
15:08<Ammler>(the rule)
15:08<mrfrenzy>since 1998
15:09<mrfrenzy>it's illegal to walk against a red light, but there is no fine or other punishment for it
15:09<mrfrenzy>the worst thing that could happen is the policeman telling you you did something illegal
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15:10<@Bjarni>I fear safety from Swedish pedestrians
15:10<Ammler>and velo driver thinks, they have same rights as those :-)
15:10<SmatZ>I think this law is in almost whole Europe
15:10<Patrick`>jay walking isn't illegal here in the uk
15:11<mrfrenzy>when I was in one of thouse split-buses (> 25m long)
15:11<mrfrenzy>there were two girls on bicycles that went out 2m infront of the bus
15:11<mrfrenzy>bus was going about 30km/h
15:12<@Bjarni>there was a case about a Swedish pedestrian in Helsingør (it's a Danish town with ferries to Sweden). He walked on the railroad tracks (of all places) and a train used the horn and he went to the side. The train then continued and when it was like 5 meters from him he started walking on the tracks again (the train was driving 15 km/h)
15:13<mrfrenzy>I'm assuming he is no more?
15:13<ln>swedes...
15:13<@Bjarni>actually he is
15:13<@Bjarni>but his foot will never be the same
15:13<mrfrenzy>the bus driver hit the horn, and fortunately the girls made it past in time
15:13<mrfrenzy>aah
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15:14<@Bjarni>http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/dk/private/HHGB/hhgb_lyn.gif <-- here is where it happened
15:14<@Bjarni>or it could be a 100 meters down the line... I don't know
15:15<mrfrenzy>that seems like a very poorly protected track
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15:15<@Bjarni>hence the speed limit of 15 km/h
15:15<mrfrenzy>aah
15:16<@Bjarni>or rather the speed limit is defined by: the train has to obey to the same stopping distance as a lorry driving 50 km/h
15:16<Eddi|zuHause2><mrfrenzy> that seems like a very poorly protected track <- tram lines always look like that
15:16<@Bjarni>which for the train in the picture is 15 km/h
15:17<mrfrenzy>aah tram
15:17<@Bjarni>they just replaced the trains with some modern ones so in theory they can increase speed now but it will take a lot of paperwork to do that
15:17<mrfrenzy>I ghought it was train
15:17<Eddi|zuHause2>but probably trams have better breaks
15:17<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it's not a tram, i was just pointing out...
15:17<@Bjarni>let's see if I have it on the computer... I have pics from that place with real trains
15:18<@Bjarni>no
15:18<@Bjarni>it's not on the computer
15:19<@Bjarni>then you just have to imagine what it looks like with a locomotive pulling some wagons on that track
15:19<@Bjarni>it's a real railroad
15:19<mrfrenzy>okay )
15:19<@Bjarni>in fact it's the one with the 25 km/h speed limit in the curved tracks ;)
15:21<Eddi|zuHause2>it's funny, Berlin S-Bahn has a ring around the inner city, but one round trip took 63 minutes, so they could not schedule the trains properly (instead incoming trains from the suburbs went 1 1/2 turns around and stopped)
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15:21<Eddi|zuHause2>so they bought new trains to get that round trip time to 60
15:21<Eddi|zuHause2>but the trains don't have higher top speed, they have better breaks
15:22<Eddi|zuHause2>brakes
15:22<@Bjarni>google didn't help much either
15:22<@Bjarni>http://www.l-eriksen.dk/toge/fast/sjaelland/nord/baner/hhgb/1/70671.jpg <-- only came up with this pic
15:22<mrfrenzy>that looks crazy
15:22<mrfrenzy>it would never be allowed to build like that in sweden
15:22<mrfrenzy>people are just too stupid
15:23<@Bjarni>it was built in 1906
15:23<@Bjarni>you should notice that the traffic light is actually also a railroad crossing. You can see the bell to the far right
15:23<@Bjarni>all the cars get red when there is a train
15:24<@Bjarni>and the bell rings all the time (it's not one of those that stops after a while but before the train passes)
15:24<@Bjarni>the safety is ok
15:24<mrfrenzy>okay
15:25<@Bjarni>the only safety issue is that people sometimes cross the track even though there is a red light and bells
15:25<@Bjarni>and I guess if that is the safety issue then all railroads have a safety issue
15:25<@Bjarni>since it can happen at all crossings
15:26<mrfrenzy>yes that is the problem with people
15:27<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.heimatsammlung.de/topo_unter/38_02/braunschweig_395.jpg
15:27<@Bjarni>http://www.l-eriksen.dk/toge/fast/sjaelland/nord/baner/hhgb/2/143001.jpg <-- this is what the line looks like for the other 25 km
15:27<@Bjarni>that's more like what you would expect from a railroad
15:27<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.jaegerschaft-wernigerode.de/pics/wernigerode/harzquerbahn_in_wernigerode.jpg
15:27<Patrick`>crazy crazy danes
15:28<Patrick`>that's like steampunk trams
15:28<mrfrenzy>we had a steamtrain passing here a few years ago ;)
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15:29<Patrick`>ultimate irony:
15:29<Patrick`>do a steampunk rendition of an electric train
15:29<Patrick`>like, overhead steam pipes or something
15:30<@Bjarni><mrfrenzy> we had a steamtrain passing here a few years ago ;) <-- on the road?
15:30<mrfrenzy>no, on the track ;)
15:30<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.gastroversicherung.com/mediac/400_0/media/HBS1.JPG
15:31<Patrick`>craaaaaazy
15:31<mrfrenzy>nice
15:31<Eddi|zuHause2>http://maps.google.de/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Harzquerbahn,+Friedrichstra%9Fe+151,+38855+Wernigerode,+Deutschland&um=1&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title <- location of that last picture
15:31<Eddi|zuHause2>gnah
15:31<@Bjarni> <Patrick`> do a steampunk rendition of an electric train <-- Austria rebuilt some steam locomotives into electric-steam locomotives during WW2. They didn't have resources to build new locomotives and they lacked coal so they put heating elements in the boilers so they could power the trains from hydro powerplants
15:32<Eddi|zuHause2>http://maps.google.de/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Harzquerbahn,+Friedrichstra%c3%9Fe+151,+38855+Wernigerode,+Deutschland&um=1&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title <- location of that last picture
15:32<Patrick`>Bjarni: that's mental!
15:33<@Bjarni><mrfrenzy> we had a steamtrain passing here a few years ago ;) <-- anything looking like this? http://www.veterantoget.dk/materiel/damp/foto/s1307.jpg
15:33<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: actually, that was switzerland
15:33<mrfrenzy>it could be from similar age
15:34<mrfrenzy>but I really wouldn't know, was more like five years ,)
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15:35<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselc.htm
15:37<@Bjarni>I was looking for that page right now
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause2>you should improve your googeling skills ;)
15:37<@Bjarni> Presumably there was a compelling reason to distribute power at such a low frequency, but despite various suggestions, the matter remains obscure, to me at least. One obvious objection to 16.6 Hz distribution is that all the transformers would be three times the size. <--- he wrote that after I sent him a mail. Before that he wrote that he thought it was odd that they didn't use 50 Hz
15:38<Patrick`>is that physically true?
15:39<@Bjarni>http://paste.openttd.org/1817 <--- this is what I wrote to him
15:40<mrfrenzy>according to my sources:
15:40<mrfrenzy>The first proper single phase alternating current motor suitable for trains was made by westinghouse in 1902
15:41<mrfrenzy>it was not possible to run at higher frequencies than about 25hz
15:41<@Bjarni><Patrick`> is that physically true? <-- could I get the long version of that question so I know what you are asking about? :)
15:41<Eddi|zuHause2>"locomotives are often made AC->DC->AC" <- i learned that really new engines use 3 phase AC
15:42<@Bjarni>yeah
15:42<@Bjarni>they use AC-DC-AC because then they have full control of the phases
15:42<@Bjarni>and can even give different frequencies to each axle if they want to
15:42<mrfrenzy>most importantly they can vary the frequency which is a very efficient way to control the speed of the motor
15:42<Prof_Frink>"We're using AC-DC because it's heavy metal."
15:42<@Bjarni>Siemens use this to give a smaller load on axles with damaged wheels
15:43<@Belugas># Hell's Bells !!
15:44<@Bjarni>I presume other manufactures can do similar stuff but I only know details about this from a single locomotive and it happens to be a Siemens locomotive
15:44<@Bjarni>looks like hell broke loose and Belugas is the messenger
15:44<Eddi|zuHause2># Ar sindarnoriello caita mornie,
15:44<Eddi|zuHause2># Ar ilye tier undulave lumbule...
15:44<@Belugas>:S
15:45<@Belugas>AC-DC - Hell's Bells
15:45<Eddi|zuHause2>not my kind of music...
15:45-!-Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
15:46<@Bjarni>oh
15:46<@Bjarni>you are talking about music
15:46<Prof_Frink>I was talking about Look Around You
15:46<hylje>:o
15:46<Prof_Frink>Wasn't I, orudge
15:46<@Bjarni>that kind of music is hell
15:47<@Bjarni>[21:44:51] <Eddi|zuHause2> # Ar sindarnoriello caita mornie,
15:47<@Bjarni>[21:44:51] <Eddi|zuHause2> # Ar ilye tier undulave lumbule... <-- what?
15:47<Eddi|zuHause2>it's titled "Haldir's Lament"
15:48<Eddi|zuHause2>translation is something around the lines
15:48<Eddi|zuHause2>"Out of a grey country darkness lies
15:48<Eddi|zuHause2>And all paths are drowned deep in shadow..."
15:49<Eddi|zuHause2>it's played when Haldir is stabbed to death at the battle of helms deep (towards the end of the 2nd part)
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>or what i actually meant: WHAT?!? you are not fluent in Quenya?!?
15:52*ln bought non-free software today.
15:52<Prof_Frink>* rms is angry
15:52<Eddi|zuHause2>how dare you!
15:52<@Rubidium>ln did finally buy a legal Transport Tycoon Deluxe CD!
15:52<ln>Rubidium: wrong, that one i've had for over 6 months already.
15:53<Eddi|zuHause2>and you have openttd for how long now? 4 years?
15:54-!-Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:55<ln>I only enjoyed reading the source code before that.
15:55<ln>+by
15:55-!-KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-145-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:55<ln>+it
15:56<ln>new try: I only enjoyed it by reading the source code before buying the legal CD.
15:56<Prof_Frink>*cough*bullshit*cough*
15:58<@peter1138>damn, dvd is failing :(
15:59<ln>anyway, I bought MS Flight Simulator X deluxe, and Civ IV.
15:59<Sacro>ln: FSX ftw
16:01<ln>I plan to buy X-Plane 9 too at some point.
16:02<ln>but is this new Rail Simulator worth the money?
16:05<@Bjarni>is there a rail simulator out there that's worth the money?
16:05<@Bjarni>compared to the real thing, that is
16:07<ln>the real thing is significantly more expensive than 50€.
16:07<ln>wonderful, FSX wants to activate itself.
16:09<@Belugas>lego train!!
16:10<hylje>legos.
16:10<ln>English only.
16:10<@Belugas>Lego
16:10<@Belugas>trade mark
16:10<@Belugas>:P
16:10<hylje>lego blocks
16:11<ln>"Lego" is an abbreviation of some danish word(s). Bjarni can elaborate.
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16:19<@Belugas>Lego is also a brand name
16:19<@Belugas>so...
16:19<@Belugas>re
16:19<@Belugas>:P
16:21<SmatZ>rego
16:21<Eddi|zuHause2>engrish?
16:22<SmatZ>:)
16:23-!-Ridayah [~ridayah@137.81.96.64] has quit [Quit: The Rise and Fall of the Heavens themselves is dependant upon Humanity's belief and disbelief.]
16:23<@Belugas>houu.....
16:23<@Belugas>Ridayah has Spoken :)
16:25<hylje>epitaph
16:25<@Belugas>is he dead?
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16:29<@Bjarni><ln> "Lego" is an abbreviation of some danish word(s). Bjarni can elaborate. <-- actually it means "I play" in Latin
16:29*Sacro plays in latin
16:30<@Bjarni>there is an urban myth that it should mean LEg GOdt (good playing) but AFAIK it's the latin explanation that's the real one
16:30<Sacro>yes
16:31<@Bjarni>* Sacro plays in latin <-- you want to translate OTTD to latin?
16:31<Sacro>Bjarni: ROMANUS EUNT DOMUS
16:31<@Bjarni>who said that?
16:31<@Bjarni>IKUS DICKUS?
16:32<Sacro>nope
16:32<@Bjarni>maybe I should kick Sacro. He failed to realise that it's an English only channel
16:32<hylje>what are you laughing at
16:32<@Bjarni>Swangus Langus
16:33<@Bjarni>(most likely spelled wrong)
16:35<@Bjarni>did any of you get that one?
16:36<hylje>i'm pretty sure most of the usual suspects know what's about
16:36<hylje>(and that's definitely not Life of Bjar.. Brian)
16:37<Eddi|zuHause2>Schwanzus Longus in german
16:37<Sacro>XD
16:37*Sacro chortles
16:38<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: I said that I misspelled it
16:39<Eddi|zuHause2>how is the danish translation?
16:39<Sacro>scharmt!
16:39<@Bjarni>good question
16:40<ln>Bjarni: according to my sources, the latin meaning was a coincidence that was only found out about later.
16:42<@Bjarni>that's not unlikely
16:43<@Bjarni>I guess only the Kirk Christiansen family knows for sure
16:43<@Bjarni>(the founders)
16:43<@Bjarni>btw Denmark has some pretty big family businesses
16:44<@Bjarni>like Lego and Mærsk
16:45<hylje>yet south park draws parallels between canada and denmark
16:45<@Bjarni>they do?
16:46<hylje>http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/
16:47<@Bjarni>which one?
16:47<hylje>the latest
16:48<@Bjarni>wtf
16:48<@Bjarni>commercials o_O
16:48<hylje>it's not perfectly free as in torrents
16:49<@Bjarni>we have free commercial free TV
16:49-!-a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:49<hylje>i bet you pay tv licences
16:49<hylje>or plain taxes
16:49<@Bjarni>yeah
16:50<@Bjarni>but that's more or less impossible to avoid
16:50<@Bjarni>if you live in Denmark and have an internet connection that's faster than a 56k modem then your computer can be used to watch TV and then you have to pay
16:50<hylje>legal torrentz
16:50-!-a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd
16:50<@Bjarni>so there is talk about just moving it into taxes since everybody has to pay anyway
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16:56<@Bjarni>hylje: 1: Southpark still sucks
16:57<@Bjarni>2: so far Denmark haven't been mentioned at all
16:57<hylje>it's a 10-second joke
16:57<hylje>you were expecting an episode about denmark?
16:58<Sacro>a 10-second joke? sounds like Bjarni's sex life
16:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12569 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_gui.cpp road_internal.h): -Cleanup: variable scope and coding style in road*.cpp
16:58<@Bjarni>o_O
16:58<SmatZ>CIA-1 is really lagged today
16:58-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [My sexlife is nothing like yours]
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16:59<hylje>i refrain from saying anything derogatory of Bjarni
16:59<Sacro>Bjarni: it was last night
16:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r12570 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: further variable scope in road_gui.cpp
16:59-!-Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai
17:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12571 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: MorphOS misses INT16_MAX/INT16_MIN.
17:00*Sacro misses it too
17:02*Bjarni quits watching
17:02<@Bjarni>it really sucks
17:02<@Bjarni>the Denmark joke were downright insulting
17:02<@Bjarni>but I guess the whole thing is insulting to Canada
17:06-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
17:06<Sacro>oh canada?
17:06<@Bjarni>stillunknown: what a silly name
17:06<@Bjarni>we know who you are
17:06<hylje>blame canada
17:06<@Bjarni>so you aren't unknown anymore
17:06<@Bjarni>right
17:06<@Bjarni>we should blame Canada for stillunknown having an incorrect name
17:07<@Bjarni>that would make sense
17:07<hylje>and blame canada for south park making a joke about, for goodness' sake, denmark
17:07-!-Yexo_ [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
17:07<stillunknown>Why blame canada?
17:07<hylje>that's the joke
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17:08<@Bjarni>stillunknown: hylje tricked me into watching Southpark about Canada
17:08<@Bjarni>it sucks
17:09<@Bjarni>but I kind of knew that
17:09<@Bjarni>Southpark sucks
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18:06<ln>hmm, there's a lot of source code with Civ IV.
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, you can mod it on XML level, on Python level or on C++ level
18:08<@Bjarni>they decided to allow for user made plugins
18:08<@Bjarni>and then read the net to see what happens
18:08-!-dih [~dih@members.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Leaving]
18:09<@Bjarni>interesting idea
18:09-!-dih [~dih@members.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
18:09<dih>nice
18:09<dih>user plugins :-)
18:09<@Bjarni>wrong button?
18:09<dih>yep
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>there are lots of mods to be found in the forum
18:10-!-dih was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [we only want skilled IRC workers in here. Pressing incorrect buttons will not do. You might have better luck at bash.org]
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18:10<dih>thank you - i appreciate that Bjarni!
18:12<@Bjarni>you are welcome
18:12<@Bjarni>now you can go apply to bash.org
18:12<ln>01:08 <@Bjarni> and then read the net to see what happens <-- what happens?
18:13<@Bjarni>count mods and look at good mods and so on
18:14<dih>but it's easy to mod
18:14<dih>and distribute
18:14<dih>and none of it has to be put into trunk
18:14<@Bjarni>ln: btw is it the mac or the windows version of Civ IV?
18:14<ln>Bjarni: win
18:14<@Bjarni>they had big problems with the mac version for some reason
18:15<@Bjarni>like being unstable and lacking sound fx
18:15<@Bjarni>they made one patch that fixed some of it but introduced new stuff
18:15<@Bjarni>and they made another one but I don't know if that one is any good
18:15<ln>i know this one open source game, where you cannot apple-tab out of fullscreen in the mac version.
18:15<@Bjarni>you see I only read about this from upset people
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>in what mystical world does this game exist?
18:16<@Bjarni>Finland
18:16<@Bjarni>ln: I have a long term plan on how to fix it but it's tricky as I will not sacrifice speed to gain this ability
18:19<ln>Bjarni: could it be an option?
18:19<@Bjarni>yeah
18:19<@Bjarni>but on 10.4 only
18:19<@Bjarni>egladil is working on it (but it appears to take a while)
18:20<@Bjarni>and I don't want to do double work so I will just wait for him to finish ;)
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>i think ktorrent is heavily leaking memoryy
18:20-!-Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-214-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:21<Eddi|zuHause2>top said it's using 25% mem
18:21-!-bob27 [4b215f2a@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
18:21<@Bjarni>either that or you are downloading a lot
18:21<@Bjarni>or at least sharing
18:21<@Bjarni>or your computer sucks :P
18:21<Eddi|zuHause2>then i clicked on "quit", and since then, a minute has passed, and memory gone to 35%
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>all torrents were stopped
18:22<@Bjarni>lol
18:22<@Bjarni>bad app
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>37.1%
18:22<@Bjarni>I think it's broken
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>it eems to have finished now
18:22<@Bjarni>I once had a crashing app due to memory leaks
18:22<@Bjarni>it hit the 4 GB limit
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>and i have 400MB free memory now
18:23<@Bjarni>and it was intended to use like 100 mb
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>and the HD finally got quiet
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>peace and quiet
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18:27<jez9999>hey Bjarni
18:28<jez9999>get anywhere with the autoreplace improvements?
18:28<@Bjarni>err
18:28<@Bjarni>no
18:28<jez9999>o
18:28<@Bjarni>m
18:28<@Bjarni>g
18:30<jez9999>or rather just the one improvement
18:30<jez9999>allowing correct estimation of replace cost
18:30<@Bjarni>I coded that
18:30<jez9999>hum
18:30<@Bjarni>but it's unreliable so I don't think that I will commit it
18:31<@Bjarni>I want something that's consistent
18:31<jez9999>why isnt there a way to reliably estimate?
18:31<Digitalfox>Bjarni i have also seen a crashing app consume 7GB also due to memory leaks, this was on a Windows 2003 64bit having 8GB total, the app was just a network traffic statistics thing that normally would just consume 6 or 7MB :p
18:32<@Bjarni>the 4 GB limit was hit on a 32 bit system with 512 MB RAM
18:32<@Bjarni>it really hurt
18:32<Digitalfox>Oh I was talking about RAM not pagefile :)
18:34<Digitalfox>But this happen because it crashed for days and days I believe that it was something like 2 weeks of increasing the memory leak..
18:34<@Bjarni><jez9999> why isnt there a way to reliably estimate? <--- maybe there is
18:34<Digitalfox>And people just notice it because when they tried to logon to that domain it took 2 hours :p
18:35<@Bjarni>lol
18:35<@Bjarni>which is 15% more than usual on windows, right?
18:35<dih>^^
18:35<Digitalfox>Bjarni lol...
18:35<dih>night
18:36<Digitalfox>Actually I had to migrate that network even clients to Gigabit because the boss of that company liked to play with their company Unreal :p
18:37<Digitalfox>It is a fun place to work =0
18:37<@Bjarni>hehe
18:38<@Bjarni>reminds me of a bash quote about a cool boss
18:38<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean with the network stress test? :p
18:38<@Bjarni>this guy had to test the network under heavy load and asked for money for a device to do so
18:38<@Bjarni>the boss found a cheaper way
18:38<@Bjarni>ordering everybody to play unreal
18:39<@Bjarni>in one huge game
18:39<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: I guess so :)
18:40<@Bjarni>there is another one about a guy asking everybody in the office for a CD key for Starcraft and then his boss gave him a no CD crack
18:40<Digitalfox>And would you believe that boss actually payed to migrate some PC's to support better unreal at higher resolutions? At first i thought he was joking, but well he reall wanted that..
18:40<@Bjarni>lol
18:41*Bjarni has never seen unreal
18:41<@Bjarni>and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything there
18:41<Sacro>WARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
18:41<ln>Digitalfox: "PCs", "paid"
18:41<Digitalfox>ln, right :)
18:41-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [I won]
18:41-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:41<Sacro>LIES
18:42<Digitalfox>I'm listening to Paul Potts in youtube, what a voice and what a guy :|
18:42<jez9999>Digitalfox: bet he thought that at higher resolutions, Unreal would use more network traffixc
18:43<Digitalfox>jez9999 no he does have some knowledge about computers and he really wanted everybody to feel the same... :\
18:43<Digitalfox>*feel and see
18:44<Digitalfox>But hey he has money so...
18:44<Digitalfox>Personally I don't like shooters only RTS, some RPGs and adventurous games :)
18:45<@Bjarni>same here
18:45<@Bjarni>and I have learned that I have become picky
18:46<Digitalfox>Right now I'm remembering the old times of 1990 and playing Monkey Island
18:46<Digitalfox>In 1990 this game made sleep a lot less.. :(
18:46<Eddi|zuHause2>the first game i remember was sokoban
18:47<Digitalfox>Well Amiga had some great games even in 1989 :)
18:47<Digitalfox>I remeber games like theme park
18:47<Digitalfox>Syndicate
18:48-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz]
18:48<Digitalfox>And others but I forgot the names and even using google can't find there names..
18:48<Digitalfox>Just remember the plot and some images
18:48<@Bjarni>I was just thinking about Monkey Island as well
18:49<Digitalfox>Have you heard the music some band just did about it?
18:49<@Bjarni><Digitalfox> Just remember the plot and some images <-- then just send me those images and I can tell you the names
18:49<@Bjarni>:P
18:49<Digitalfox>Well do you have a brain reader?
18:49<@Bjarni><Digitalfox> Have you heard the music some band just did about it? <-- do you mean press play on tape?
18:50<Zuu>Digitalfox: But you could draw a picture and send to Bjarni :)
18:50<Digitalfox>yeah Bjarni :)
18:50<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rtiAQk3ojE <-- this guy is awesome
18:50<Digitalfox>Zuu me drawing.. Oh that would be fun.. =0
18:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i never had an amiga
18:51<@Bjarni>shame on you
18:51<@Bjarni>or shame on your parents.... you really missed out on the good stuff
18:51<Gekz>I still have one
18:51<Digitalfox>Spectrum sorry guys but sucked... Damn tapes.. :(
18:51<Gekz>and my parents didnt buy it for me
18:51<Gekz>lol
18:51<@Bjarni>Amigas ruled the planet back then
18:51*Zuu neither, the only non PC I've had (and still have) is a N64 :)
18:51<@Bjarni><Gekz> I still have one <-- I have two and I think I have a link cable.... somewhere
18:51<Digitalfox>Bjarni true.. We were the only ones with good sound
18:52<Eddi|zuHause2>i have played Monkey Island from 4 5¼" disquettes ;)
18:52<@Bjarni>I have a Commodore 64 as well
18:52<@Bjarni>in working condition
18:52<Digitalfox>Well I have a Amiga 500 and 600
18:53-!-Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-177-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
18:53<Digitalfox>And by the way Zuu i also have a N64.. Loved Mario64 and Zelda
18:53<Eddi|zuHause2>if you didn't play Monkey Island from disquette, you couldn't really appreciate the joke about "insert disk 235" ;)
18:53<@Bjarni>:)
18:53<@Bjarni>I can't remember that joke
18:53<Zuu>Digitalfox: I only had it for car games hehe
18:53<@Bjarni>I'm not sure I encountered it
18:54<@Bjarni>where was it?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>it was in the forest on melee island, a hole in a treestumb
18:54<@Bjarni>ahh
18:54<@Bjarni>I read about the fact that you should look at it but I haven't played it since I read it
18:54<@Bjarni>so I never tried that
18:55<Digitalfox>Bjarni http://www.worldofmi.com/features/trivia/errors.php?game=MI1&s=1
18:55<@Bjarni>however I went the other way in MS3
18:55<bowman>I just discovered the FMTOWNS-versions of the scumm games
18:55<@Bjarni>looking out of a crack and then Guybrush's came into a screenshot from MI1
18:55<@Bjarni>MS3....
18:55<bowman>some are noticeably better looking than the pc/amiga originals :)
18:55<@Bjarni>naturally I meant MI3 :P
18:55<Digitalfox>"In the 256 color versions there is an error at the end. When Guybrush falls down into the grog machine he is only displayed in 16 colors" lol I have to see this
18:56<bowman>and with cd audio hehe
18:56<@Bjarni>bowman: intersting
18:56<@Bjarni>but what is DMTOWNS?
18:57<bowman>fmtowns was a proprietary japanese pc-setup
18:57<bowman>fujitsu
18:57<bowman>I think basically a 386 but with vga and cdrom years before that became common for ibm compatibles
18:58-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
18:58<bowman>http://bowman.rtfm.se/originalzak.png -> http://bowman.rtfm.se/remakezak.png -> http://bowman.rtfm.se/fmtownszak.png
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18:59<Digitalfox>Bjarni did you also had to put a paper or something on a diskettes hole to make the diskettes compatible with amiga, so that diskettes of 1.44 became of 720 KB..
18:59-!-Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i had the "remake" zak
18:59<@Bjarni>no
19:00<Digitalfox>I had so i could copy some games with Xcopy lol
19:00<@Bjarni>my kickrom allowed for HD disks to be used as DD disks without any physical modification
19:00-!-Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
19:00<Digitalfox>Oh.. I see
19:00<@Bjarni>but it didn't work for anybody else using Amigas
19:00<bowman>why buy hd disks for amiga, they were more expensive :)
19:00<@Bjarni>don't ask me why
19:01*bowman recalls having stacks of storage boxes with 100+ disks each hehe
19:01<@Bjarni><bowman> why buy hd disks for amiga, they were more expensive :) <-- yeah but in the late years of my amiga usage era DD disks were hard to find and HD disks had become fairly cheap
19:01<bowman>ah
19:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i have 100 DVDs
19:02<Digitalfox>One thing I do remember is using 80 diskettes for copying Warcraft 2 and that was with ARJ compression full of stwitches and BAT files.. But after 8 hours and returned home to try it it had the Barracuda or something like that Virus.. Men was I pissed :|
19:02<@Bjarni>LOL
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>wtf?
19:03<bowman>I think the worst I ever had to deal with was one game on 12 DD disks :P
19:03<Digitalfox>Well in that time there were no CD recorders on the market
19:03<Sacro>it's piss easy to convert a normal disc into DD
19:03<Sacro>just drill the corner out
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i once installed WIN95 (CD version) on a laptop that did not have a CD drive
19:03<@Bjarni>I was once told that there could only be one virus on each disk on the Amiga system so a trick could be to install a harmless virus on purpose
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>using 2 disquettes formatted for 1,7MB
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>copying the .cab files from the other PC one at a time
19:04<SmatZ>:-D @ Bjarni ;)
19:04<@Bjarni>I don't think I never noticed anything bigger than 11 DD disks
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>win95 was like 20 .cab files of 1.7MB size
19:04<bowman>I remember willy beamish
19:04<@Bjarni>me too
19:04<@Bjarni>I always wondered about that game
19:04<bowman>wasn't that 12 hehe
19:05<@Bjarni>never figured out what it was all about
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>plus some miscellaneous stuff for the first two disks setting up the installation
19:05<Patrick`>I once walked uphill both ways in the snow
19:05<Patrick`>and I LIKED IT
19:05<@Bjarni>I never had it myself
19:05<bowman>pretty standard adventure game with cartoon style animation (hence the size)
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19:05<@Bjarni>I saw it at a friend and he had it on the HD so I don't know anything about disks
19:05<SmatZ>I installed Win95 on 100MB ZIP disc... with source files on that disc, too :)
19:05<bowman>pretty much unplayable from disks, I only got try it after I bought an a1200 with hd
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i remember the TT CD my brother bought
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>it was the 2 installation disquettes put on a CD
19:06<SmatZ>:-)
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>what a waste...
19:07<Digitalfox>How technology has evolved over this 20 years.. What will the future bring I ask myself lot's of times.. :)
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>the first "cartoon" style adventure i know was DOTT
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19:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it even had speech, but we didn't have a sound card...
19:08<bowman>I played all of DOTT fairly recently (with speech and cutscenes!) on my phone heh
19:09<bowman>uiq2 scumm port
19:09<Eddi|zuHause2>i only had the disk version, it only had speech in the intro, it was said the CD version was fully with speech
19:09<@Bjarni>the CD had speech everywhere
19:09<Eddi|zuHause2>but what are "cutscenes"?
19:09<@Bjarni>kind of cool back then
19:09<bowman>most scumm games have a full talkie version
19:10<bowman>and some have prerendered movies
19:10<bowman>as extras for the cd versions
19:10<@Bjarni><EddizuHause2> but what are "cutscenes"? <-- prerendered movies not using the game drawing engine
19:10<@Bjarni>meaning like in DOTT when all the credits shows in the start and the car is driving
19:11<bowman>also played through the dig :) the scumm games work perfectly on handheld devices that have 320x200 resolution and stylus touchscreen uis
19:11<Eddi|zuHause2>the first game making extensive use of videos i had was civ2, but it could not play them on my computer (missing codec or something)
19:11<@Bjarni>SCUMM were designed for 320x200
19:11<bowman>yep so ideal
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>the next one was HOMM3
19:12<bowman>perfect for uiq2 & uiq3 phones
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>but my computer wasn't fast enough to play them, so they were full of artifacts
19:12<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: either it was civ2 or civilization: call to power that relied on the indeo video codec... it really sucked
19:14<@Bjarni>the indeo codec still sucks as it's closed source
19:15<@Bjarni>and never ported to anything except windows and old versions of MacOS (not OSX)
19:15<@Bjarni>it's not even a good codec o_O
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i have still never seen any of the civ2 movies
19:16<bowman>probably not missing much
19:16<@Bjarni>hehe
19:17<@Bjarni>your advisors really sucked
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19:22<@Bjarni>goodnight
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19:22<bowman>http://bowman.rtfm.se/escummvm.wmv
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21:42<Wolf01>'night
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22:24<Sacro>hmm
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 05 00:00:07 2008