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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-05

---Logopened Sat Apr 05 00:00:07 2008
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06:46<Wolf01>uh... I can't drag signals ò_O
06:46<Eddi|zuHause3>you fail.
06:47<Wolf01>oh, I found why... the convert signal tool, still active also after the signal gui was closed
06:47<ln>please state the nature of the medical emergency
06:47<SmatZ>Wolf01: it should be fixed in trunk
06:48<Wolf01>I'm playing with r12565 :/
06:48<Wolf01>aka "latest nightly
06:48<@Rubidium>that's like ancient
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06:49<SmatZ>Wolf01: you are right
06:50<SmatZ>the question is, at least for me, why dragging is disabled for conversion
06:51<Wolf01>message to the dev who'll fix it: fix the trees button too, please... they are ages I'll demolish things thinking of planting trees
06:52<Wolf01>It is a simple line fix: reset active tool when clicking on the trees button :P
06:52<SmatZ>Wolf01: aha, I see
07:03<Wolf01>There's any work on basetunnels?
07:05<Eddi|zuHause3>not on the hacky ttdp kind, i assume
07:06<Wolf01>I'll give it a try
07:07<Wolf01>Because I want to build roads over tunnel entrances too
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07:10<Eddi|zuHause3>it'd all be solved with multi-layered maps
07:12<snappy>gh that gamer i havent checjked out ye
07:17<Patrick`>I wat to build high bridges over a city :(
07:18<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i think something crashed
07:18<Wolf01>I want to build bridges over bridges
07:18<Patrick`>crossing tunnels would probably do the job you want
07:19<Wolf01>Yes 2 trains crashed, I removed a signal on a really busy junction :/
07:19<Wolf01>Tell me how to build a tunnel to cross a valley between mountains
07:20<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it's totally weird, when my / HD [or IDE port] crashes, all loaded programs will go on, as will access to the /home HD [SATA port]
07:20<Patrick`>fair enough
07:21<Eddi|zuHause3>but i can't shut down properly
07:21<Wolf01>I want to cross something like 30 tiles long valley, ok the bridge will leave a large gap between trains but I don't care, I play more for eyecandy, and there are bridges 6 levels under my bridge
07:21<@Rubidium>Wolf01: remove some ifs and asserts from the tunnel code
07:21<@Rubidium>then you can just build a tunnel through mid air
07:21<@Rubidium>just needs a bump on each side of the valley so the tunnel entrances can be build
07:22<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, now amarok crashed
07:22<Eddi|zuHause3>i really need to reboot
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07:35<SmatZ>Wolf01: first bug fixed
07:36<SmatZ>hmm that signal GUI code was far from perfect :-x
07:38<Gekz>omg i'm so tired that I'm shaking
07:38<Gekz>yet i can still play frets on fire -_-
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08:49<SmatZ>Wolf01: both your dreams came into reality today :)
08:49<Wolf01>:O basetunnels and custom bridge heads?
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
08:50<ln>una ragazza?
08:50<SmatZ>Wolf01: no... signal building when the convert signal is active, reset cursor when you open the build trees gui
08:50<SmatZ>but your guess was near :)
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>so, SmatZ, what about the tunnels anyway?
08:52<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: Belugas is working on advanced bridges, maybe tunnels will come together, I have no clue...
08:52<Wolf01>nooo shhhhh you shouldn't tell it
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>so you don't actually talk to each other, great ;)
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09:06<Volley>i did read a bit about the custom bridge heads ... Wolf01: what do you mean with basetunnels?
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09:07<Wolf01>the possibility to build over tunnel entrances
09:07<Volley>ah, i see...
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09:10<Volley>but there are quite some more things i'd also love to see about tunnels ... :)
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>exactly, that's why the hacky TTDP apporach will most likely not be implemented
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>but a more complex system that will have these features as small sideeffects
09:12<Patrick`>bridges that are automatically signalled every tile
09:13<Volley>sideeffects like diagonal directions possible? or maybe eaven angles? :)
09:13<Patrick`>diagonal bridges would need new grafix
09:15<LordAzamath>planetmaker: try @logs
09:15<Volley>yep, from a graphic point of view this would be easier for tunnels, all you would need are entrances
09:15<+glx>or try the right command ;)
09:16<LordAzamath>meh.. forgetting things already when not been here
09:16*LordAzamath was here yesterday, but it doesn't count
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09:20<Wolf01>we need first tracks going up diagonal slopes, so you can build a straight track without breaking it to climb a slope
09:21<@Rubidium>and trains that can actually climb a 5% slope
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09:33<planetmaker>glx: thx :)
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09:36<larsemil>is there a good SDL tutorial/howto?
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09:43*Forked compiles
09:43<larsemil>Sacro: do you have a url?
09:43<Sacro>i have lots
09:43<Sacro>though not as many as google
09:44<Alberth>google doesn't have them, they just save pointers to them :P
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>urls ARE pointers
09:45<Forked>haven't seen gonozal in a while.. did his patchpack destroy him? :\
09:46<Alberth>euh, you are right, sorry
09:47<Alberth>Is the bottom window special? (ie _z_windows[0]) In functions like FindWindowFromPt() and DecreaseWindowCounters() they seem to skip it
09:47<@Rubidium>it's the viewport
09:49<Sacro>don't remove that
09:49<Sacro>everything will fall out the bottom
09:49<Alberth>You don't want to see your desktop background between the Windows? :)
09:51<larsemil>Sacro: thnx for nothing
09:52<Sacro>You're welcome :)
09:52*Sacro is good at doing nothing
09:52<Wolf01>anybody knows a good grf with automobiles compatible with long vehicles?
09:53<Ammler>4lv is already RV
09:53<Ammler>do you mean trams?
09:53<Wolf01>but it doesn't have automobiles
09:54<Wolf01>4-5 passengers max
09:54<Wolf01>so I can purchase 400 of them to populate the roads
09:54<Ammler>there is something like funnycars
09:56<Gekz>are there pictures in that link
09:56<Ammler>no, is a excel list with links to the GRFs
09:58<Ammler>and as always, please have a look on the readme :-)
09:58<Ammler>you can change the VehID...
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10:03<Eddi|zuHause><Forked> haven't seen gonozal in a while.. did his patchpack destroy him? :\ <- he suffered from the sun, i presume
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10:05<sickie88>I too wander where he is
10:10<Ammler>@seen Gonozal_VII
10:10<@DorpsGek>Ammler: I have not seen Gonozal_VII.
10:11<Ammler>@seen Gono*
10:11<@DorpsGek>Ammler: Gono* could be Gonozal_VIII (2 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 2 minutes, and 17 seconds ago), Gonozal (5 weeks, 4 days, 8 hours, 28 minutes, and 6 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIIIe (7 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 11 minutes, and 57 seconds ago), Gonozal_ (15 weeks, 0 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIII_ (15 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 55 minutes, and 0 seconds ago), gono_ping_timeout (15 weeks, 5 days, 18 (1 more message)
10:14<planetmaker>SCNR: if you wander where he is, you can stop us wondering ;)
10:16<Wolf01>nice a taxi has 1,336,xxx of running cost... a coach 390,xxx
10:16<Wolf01>they are really funny
10:17<dih>@seen SpComb
10:17<@DorpsGek>dih: SpComb was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 2 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <SpComb> Logs:
10:17<dih>hey Sir SpComb - you arrr ound?
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause>that line is all he ever says ;)=
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm... "Lissi" is a great movie ;)
10:45<dragonhorseboy>eddi just asking as I kinda recall bringing it up once...
10:45<dragonhorseboy>have anyone fixed that silly problem with lighthouses sitting on foundations? :p
10:47<dih>is it? i was thinking og buying it
10:51<SpComb>dih: semi
10:53<dih>hey hey
10:53<dih>we were wondering if you could be had for a lil python project
10:55<dih>SpCombe seems like a fastly (?:dis)?appearing person
10:57<Patrick`>I can do python
10:57<Patrick`>what is it?
10:58<Sacro>Patrick`: a long snake, poisenous
10:58<dih>i am asking SpComb for a reason... :-)
10:58<dih>but its rewriting autopilot
10:59<dih>tcl sucks ^^
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11:00<Patrick`>dih: hmm
11:00<Patrick`>I don't have a lot of free time atm
11:00<Patrick`>pesky life
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>dih: it is definitely fun to watch, if you know at least half of the references ;)
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11:06<SpComb>dih: I'm doing lights for a theatre production (that starts in... 10 seconds)
11:07<SpComb>so on the long term, tell me more, but in the short term... not quite yet
11:07<Ammler>hmm, then you have enough time :P
11:14<SpComb>as for autopilot... something to progrsamattically interface with the OpenTTD console?
11:17<dih>when you dont know a word just smile and nod
11:17<Ridayah>dang, now I wish you could have per-cargo orders for a train. Although that'd probably be a pain to code.
11:17<dih>code it
11:18<Ridayah>If I find time, I might have to.
11:20<SpComb>the issue with that is that MyOTTD development is (slowly) heading in another direction
11:20<dih>define 'another'
11:21<SpComb>modules that are compiled against the OpenTTD source code and then accessed via a binary interface
11:21<SpComb>i.e. I'll statically link my own code into the OpenTTD binaries that I run
11:22<dih>well - autopilot is not supposed to replace myottd
11:22<dih>the main interest i guess is the irc bridge
11:22<dih>and that the bridge can recover itself
11:22<SpComb>I know, but my meaning was that the MyOTTD code that I write may not be that relevant for autopilot
11:22<dih>and that ap config can be reloaded without needint to restart the game
11:23<dih>no - it might not be :-)
11:23<dih>although a irc bridge for myottd could be interesting too
11:23<SpComb>I'll eventually get around to it
11:24<Ammler>all we need is with ircbridge :-)
11:24*SpComb wrote another simple irc-bot-daemon recently, which is pretty close to what MyOTTD needs
11:25<SpComb>(i.e. a separate daemon that handles the IRC connection(s))
11:25<Ammler>then, we have to fight with installing on our own server :-)
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11:25<SpComb>and then a syslog relay on top of that
11:25<Wolf01>my bot doesn't work instead... it hangs on loading the uptime module... it has been shut down for 3 months
11:25<SpComb>yeah, and that's the difference betwneen myottd and autopilot
11:26<SpComb>one's intended to be a colossal centralized thing and the other a self-contained scriptt
11:28<Ammler>current server can host about 2 games
11:28<Ammler>you can't keep them centralized
11:29<Ammler>or you would need a huge cluster
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>sure, my university has one of those ;)
11:33<Sacro>we have a 64 cpu cluster
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>64 is nothing
11:34*peter1138 has 4 cpu pc...
11:34<@peter1138>it even suspends and resumes properly :D
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11:43<SpComb>Ammler: the the next server will be able to host 16 games
11:43<Ammler>peter1138: one game per cpu
11:44<Ammler>(running game)
11:44<SpComb>but yes... it's a bit of an issue, can't really figure out how to implement my ISK system
11:46<Ammler>and when pbs will be in trunk, you need about 2 cpus for one game
11:47<Sacro>YAPP in trunk?
11:47<Sacro>i guess me and peter1138 are testing it
11:47<Ammler>you don't think, it will go to trunk?
11:48<Ammler>it needs about 2 times more then usual games in our tests...
11:48<Ammler>2-4 times
11:49<@peter1138>i didn't notice
11:49<@peter1138>but then i don't play stupidly large games
11:49<Ammler>did you play with about 300 trains?
11:49<SpComb>PBS is multithreaded?
11:50<Ammler>usually we can have 500-800 trains to bring Brianetta's server to limit
11:50<Ammler>with YAPP, we reachad that limit with 300
11:50<@peter1138>i ought to get a 4 pin pwm case fn
11:51<@peter1138>i just unplugged the 3 pin fan i have and box is near silent
11:51<Ammler>but that was with v4.3
11:52<SpComb>Ammler: how many online players? What hardware?
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11:52<Ammler>well, its not the newest server
11:52-!-SmatZ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
11:52<Ammler>amount of online player doesn't matter much
11:52<SpComb>I mean the 500-800 trains stat
11:52*SpComb in interested in real-world performance stats
11:53<Ammler>but you can try the wwottdgd/1 save
11:53<Ammler>if you like to make a real test :-)
11:54<SpComb>what about the hardware?
11:54<Ammler>cat /proc/cpuinfo ?
11:55<Ammler>Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz
11:55<Ammler>4 cores
11:55<Ammler>but it doesn't matter for ottd
11:55<SpComb>openttd doesn't multithread does it?
11:55<Ammler> no
11:56<Patrick`>saving is done in a separate thread
11:56<Ammler>that means you can run 4 ottd server at same time :-)
11:56<Patrick`>well, compression of saves
11:56<SpComb>right, so one 3.20Ghz core runs a 500-800 train 2048x2048 map?
11:56<Ammler>but that was a real huge game
11:56<Ammler>not many clients at the end was able to join
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11:57<Ammler>no, that was the server for wwottdgd
11:57<Ammler>Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.80GHz <-- 800 trains
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11:58<Eddi|zuHause>oh that were the times when you could play TT on a 25MHz CPU
11:58<SpComb>but how many OpenTTD servers have 500-800 trains?
11:58<Ammler>we hat about 2000 vehicels on the wwottdgd
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>8 players with 100 trains each?
11:59<Ammler>before I
11:59<SpComb>the average game of OpenTTD probably doesn't use quite as much CPU-time...
11:59<Ammler>joined coop, I played often at sandra.bullock
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11:59<Ammler>that was really annoying at the end
12:00<Ammler>I guess, that was Chris, he had about 4 servers at same time
12:01<Ammler>SpComb: your service is very buggy now, but when it will go stable, many (maybe also coop) would be intereseted in your service.
12:01<Patrick`>I need to play some more ottd online
12:02<Patrick`>SpComb: if you work more towards bundling the software, maybe others will share the (server) load :)
12:02<SpComb>Ammler: yeah, that's the reality and I know it (the buggy-bit)
12:03<SpComb>although I did once use myottd myself to host a game that I played for 12 hours or so, and it *did* work
12:03<SpComb>distributing software is in many ways a lot more difficult than just running it yourself
12:04<SpComb>althoguh I can't exactly claim that the latter is easy either...
12:04<Ammler>I tried to bring a ECS game running at your server
12:04<SpComb>the two just pose different problems
12:04<Ammler>but its really hard handling GRFs there
12:04<SpComb>what part broke?
12:04<Ammler>well, you get Error page everytime if you login
12:05<Ammler>then you loose the grfs, when you change the version of ottd
12:05<SpComb>hmm... weird
12:06<Ammler>I heard the login part also from others.
12:06<Ammler>most time you aren't able to rejoin
12:06<SpComb>yeah, I have that myself (the login thing)
12:06<Ammler>to reconfigure something on your server
12:07<SpComb>you mean rejoin after restart?
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12:07<Ammler>yeah relogin after a week or so
12:08<Ammler>I loded the half ottdc_grfpack
12:08<Ammler>you can imagine, how long that takes over your form :-)
12:08<Ammler>and then, I thought, go to update to new version
12:09<Ammler>thats why I asked you to take our pack as common grfs
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12:13<SpComb>what happaned after you changed the version? The list of grfs cleared itself? Or just the tick-boxes?
12:13<Ammler>no all, grfs are lost
12:13<SpComb>don't show up on the list anymore?
12:13<SpComb>that's weird
12:13<Ammler>looked liked they belong to the version
12:14<Ammler>well, let me take a look
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12:15<Ammler>wow, not able to login now..
12:16<SpComb>it really shouldn't do that
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12:17<Ammler>hmm, I have them now
12:17<Ammler>I mean the GRFs
12:18<Ammler>hehej, it WORKS :-)
12:18<SpComb>yeah, the login error i known, I meant the grf thing
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12:18<Sacro>i want cheese :(
12:19<Ammler>SpComb: not a error, but how are the GRFs sorted?
12:19<SpComb>you do need to start a new game to use the grfs though, and the UI doesn't reflect that
12:19<SpComb>Ammler: they... aren't
12:19<Ammler>order, like I upload?
12:19<Ammler>or like filesystem?
12:20<SpComb>not entirely sure, I suspect that it reflects the order that they're un on the web page
12:22<SpComb>there's no UI to chnage the order though
12:23<Ammler>you could use the coop pack and order like filesystem
12:23<Ammler>hehe, just loaded same rev as coop ps and it seems to work
12:24<Ammler>you only have to fight with login then
12:24<Ammler>is that because of the different subdomains?
12:24<Ammler>(handling of cookies etc.)
12:25*Ammler is trying rcon..
12:27<Ammler>omg, it really seems to work, did you make some updates, SpComb?
12:29<Ammler>SpComb: could I prepar a GRFPack, which you could upload there?
12:31<SpComb>no, I copy-paste-monkey-patched support for (hardcoded) cookie domains into pylons... it's probably related to that, but not a darn clue how and it's åretty difficult to debug
12:32<SpComb>but the GRF-UI needs some tweaking if you were to stick a couple dozen GRFs into the list
12:33<Ammler>our pack is prepared for using as it is
12:33<Ammler>the order is right
12:33<Ammler>our webconfig tool has no order possibitly either
12:34<Ammler>you "just" need to use the order of the filestructure
12:35<Ammler>the game configuration is quite cool
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12:40<Ammler>SpComb: <-- error after restart
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12:42<Ammler>SpComb: I am not able to start a new game
12:42<Ammler>it allways takes auto.sav
12:43<Ammler>(workaround over rcon: newgame)
12:48<SpComb>you mean if you do new random game?
12:48<SpComb>ugh... quotes
12:48<SpComb>what's yur server's id?
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12:50<Maedhros>hmm. 0.5.3 isn't marked stable yet in Gentoo/AMD64 ...
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12:53<SpComb>is the config still broken?
12:54<SpComb>are those values supposed to be numeric or something?
12:54<SpComb>I don't see any extra quotes in the .cfg
12:55<Ammler>hmm, after newgame
12:55<Ammler>those errors didn't appear
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14:22<edeca>I'm playing with that newgrf package from above and it looks good
14:22<edeca>But it says "too many newgrfs" :(
14:22<edeca>Can that be increased, or do I need to pick & choose the ones I want
14:22<edeca>I WANT IT ALL! ;)
14:22<Ammler>not meant to all at same time
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14:23<edeca>Why not? Damnit all :)
14:24<edeca>Aah well, I'll sift through
14:24<Ammler>the limit is around 50
14:24<edeca>Some of them I definitely don't care about, but some seem nice
14:24<edeca>The map looks pretty :)
14:24<edeca>Can you enable more than one alternate train set?
14:25<Ammler>with a special patch
14:25<edeca>That's cool. I like the UKRS anyway, but I wouldn't mind trying some of hte others
14:25<edeca>New road vehicles and trams seem good though, I've not tried them
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>general rule is: only one set of each kind (e.g. train, road, tram), unless they state that they should be used together (e.g. ECS industries)
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>station sets are free to use however many you like
14:28<Maedhros>you can use as many house sets as you like, too (although there's a limit of 402 new houses)
14:29<edeca>Ah, brilliant
14:29<edeca>There are some nice newgrfs
14:29<edeca>New industries might be fun too
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>the problem with newindustries is that some transportation sets are not designed to transport all these cargos
14:33<edeca>So UKRS isn't going to work well with them? :(
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14:35<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure about that
14:35<Ammler>UKRS has ECS Support
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>it will definitely go well with PBI
14:35<Ammler>please have a look on the GRFLIST in the pack
14:35<Ammler>you will find links to documentations
14:36<edeca>It's just all very confusing :)
14:36<Ammler>there is a nice wiki page about ECS
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>DBSetXL will need an extension for the cargos
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14:45<edeca>Haha, the TEA Tanker Wagon can be refitted to take "tourists"
14:45<edeca>I've got a newgrf set that looks cool now though, time to play with it
14:46<edeca>Some of the new industries look funny though
14:46<yorick>and livestock ;)
14:48<henkie>hmm, some newgrf seem to slowdown the random scenario generator
14:49<henkie>too bad it doesnt do that multithreaded :)
14:55<+glx>henkie: ECS usually
14:55<+glx>they have very restrictive landscaping needs
14:56<henkie>ah, it does 1 industry/sec (in 2048x2048)
14:58<henkie>i removed one (something with brick) and now i goes a little faster
14:58<henkie>still slow tho, but time to make dinner :)
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15:11<Osai>hi all
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15:15<Eddi|zuHause>henkie: try very low amount of industries
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>they'll all close down before you can connect them anyway ;)
15:24<Wolf01>anybody uses Code::Blocks? I'm looking at how to adding a new build target
15:30<Wolf01>np, I manually modified the template of the project
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16:44<edeca>I don't appear to have oil tankers in 1945, have I screwed up with newgrfs :(
16:45<Ammler>did you read the readme about newships?
16:45<edeca>Probably not :)
16:46<Ammler>its all in the pack
16:47*edeca is reading
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16:50<edeca>I don't see any warnings in there, what am I missing?
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16:50<Ammler>newships is the only ship replacement grf
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16:50<Ammler>you have oil tanker from 1928
16:50<edeca>Oh, sorry!
16:50<edeca>I meant oil tankers for road
16:50<edeca>I only have busses
16:51<Ammler>just use one RV GRF
16:51<edeca>I thought I only had one, I'll see if I can remove others without ruining the game
16:51<Ammler>if you like big RVs, take 4LV
16:52<edeca>I have two tram sets, hrm
16:52<edeca>What is 4LVs name in the list?
16:53<Ammler>use GRFLIST and search for 4lv
16:53<edeca>Ah, "long vehicles" :)
16:54<edeca>I wish the newgrfs could be split into road/train/industry/station etc
16:54<Ammler>they are
16:54<edeca>They are?
16:54<Ammler>well, the pack is
16:54<edeca>In the GUI I mean :)
16:56<Ammler>the GUI isn't made for man GRFs
16:56<edeca>That is true
16:56<edeca>Hrm, I still only have busses :)
16:56<Ammler>it comes from time, only about 5 NewGRFs worked in OTTD :-)
16:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12582 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: move some (needlessly) static inlined functions from order_base.h to order_cmd.cpp.
16:57<Ammler>well, at least you can manage GRFs over GUI
16:57*Sacro just lost the game
16:57<edeca>Yep :)
16:58<edeca>I have ford model T available, heh
16:58<edeca>But no oil tanker
16:58<Ammler>maybe you need to REFIT
16:59<edeca>Yep, I think I need to refit a model T
17:00*edeca has found it now
17:02<edeca>It is worrying how raw products can run out though ;)
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17:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12583 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp order_base.h order_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: make AssignOrder a class function of order.
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19:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12584 /trunk/src/ (22 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: do not access the order type directly.
19:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12585 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix (r12584): assumption that assertions were enabled during compilation/testing was flawed.
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 06 00:00:45 2008