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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-07

---Logopened Mon Apr 07 00:00:25 2008
00:16<AllAboard>Unfortunately the trains are still unavailable to use. Do I have to configure something? I am going to try a clean install
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01:17<Patrick`>AllAboard: the trains come in in the 40's or 50's
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02:42<ln>Eddi|zuHause2: sarcasm
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02:45<Celestar>morning
02:48<@peter1138>hi
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04:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12600 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: make GetNonStopType return a more augmented type; not is there a non-stop order but the kind of non-stop order, so one doesn't need to check _patches.new_nonstop type everywhere.
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07:32<Celestar>:S
07:32<Celestar>Backup provider told us off for using too much space
07:33<Celestar>it's only 30 TB :S
07:34<Eddi|zuHause2>haha ;)
07:35<Celestar>comon.
07:35<Celestar>that's about 25 Tapes ...
07:35<SmatZ>for the GIT repository?
07:36<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think he talks about openttd :p
07:36<SmatZ>aha
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07:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12601 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12587): do not reset the index of orders (causes loading ancient savegames to loop infinitively.
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07:52<Celestar>methinks that openttd needs nowhere near 30TB :P
07:53<@Rubidium>if we want to precalculate all game states we need to
07:54<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, 2^8MB is not anywhere near 30TB ;)
07:54<Eddi|zuHause2>2^(8MB)
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08:02<Celestar>8MB is about 8 million
08:03<Celestar>2^8e6 > number of mass-carrying particles in the universe
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08:04<hylje>doesnt 2^128 exceed that already
08:06<Eddi|zuHause2>who says you need mass to store information? :p
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08:14<@peter1138>hylje: unlikely to
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08:16<@peter1138>whoever came up with that statement was either an idiot or making a joke
08:30<Celestar>peter1138: with what statement?
08:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12602 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_bridge.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: minor type in documentation
08:30<@peter1138>"2^128 exceeds the number of particles in the universe" (relating to ipv6)
08:31<Celestar>number of mass-carrying particles
08:31<Celestar>not number of partciles.
08:31<@peter1138>well it's still wrong
08:31<Celestar>nope, because that number is estimated to be around 10^80
08:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12603 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_error.cpp ai_error.hpp ai_error.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add: 'support' for telling AIs that the last error message was a NewGRF generated message, so we can't say anything sensible about the real error message.
08:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12604 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_log.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: document LogData to make Doxygen happy
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08:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12605 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp train_gui.cpp): -Cleanup: variable scope and coding style in train*
08:37<Celestar>man
08:37<hylje>dude
08:37<Celestar>I don't get NewGRF_ports up to scratch. Shall we start a new branch or shall we restart the whole development process in trunk/ ?
08:38<@peter1138>hmm
08:39<@peter1138>i don't like branches :(
08:39<@peter1138>seems to make a mess of workflows
08:39<Eddi|zuHause2>do it in the 0.6 branch ;)
08:39<Celestar>peter1138: so trunk it is ;)
08:40<@Rubidium>Celestar: not very wise IMO to go to trunk directly
08:40<Celestar>Rubidium: peter1138: then fight it out amongst yourselves :P
08:40<Celestar>Rubidium: why is that?
08:40<@Rubidium>because then we have broken airport in about two days
08:40<@Rubidium>and they'll work again in six months
08:40<@peter1138>well when stuff is done in trunk we generally don't break it, heh
08:41<Celestar>Rubidium: nope. airports will not be broken at any time.
08:41<Celestar>i.e not working
08:41<@peter1138>hg? heh
08:41<@Rubidium>hg's fine by me
08:42<@peter1138>gah, it's impossible to find an azalia/intel hda front panel audio thingy :(
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08:43<@Rubidium>the main issue with NewGRF airports is that there is a vague plan to make something that might work
08:43<@Rubidium>the specification isn't finalised in any way and there are still loads of issues to resolve
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08:43<TheJosh>hey all
08:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12606 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_bridge.hpp ai_error.hpp ai_object.hpp ai_station.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: minor documentation inconsistancy, to make doxygen even more happy
08:44<Forked>happy doxygen! \O/
08:45<Celestar>Rubidium: which are? :) the airport side is basically working
08:47<@Rubidium>the minor things like flag and such not moving, the enormous duplication of code everywhere
08:47<@Rubidium>total lack of callback support
08:48<Celestar>1) there's already a patch, 2) that's a big issue why I think a rewrite is needed. 3) dunno
08:49<@Rubidium>'just' using string IDs that IIRC are already taken for something else
08:49<@peter1138>hmm?
08:50<TheJosh>how is everyone?
08:50<Celestar>Rubidium: ?
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08:51<@Rubidium>IIRC someone said that CD00 and CE00 StringID ranges are already used for something else
08:52<@peter1138>C4 and C5 would work
08:52<@peter1138>same as regular stations
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08:53<@peter1138>they're 'virtual' IDs local to each GRF anyway
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08:56<@Rubidium>the rest of the issues I can't recall at the moment and the logs are on a broken HDD
08:58<@peter1138>so rewrite using hg? heh
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09:10<Celestar>hg?
09:12<@Rubidium>mercurial
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09:19<Celestar>don't get it
09:20<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Open Bugs: 32; Not assigned: 24; Closed this week: 4; Opened this week: 7
09:20<@Rubidium>Celestar: mercurial is a scm and we export svn to a mercurial repository automatically
09:21<@Rubidium>there you can easily work without the hassle of creating a whole new branch in svn
09:21<Celestar>I see
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09:28<@peter1138>hmm
09:30<@peter1138>suppose i should install hg on my new box
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10:01<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12607 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: SetLastError support for AIVehicle (Morloth)
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10:40<THM-SFG>hello, can someone tell me if it would be possible to place only specific industries at random and not all of them?
10:41<@Rubidium>(if you like messing with the source) ? yes : no;
10:41<Celestar>hehehe
10:42<Tefad>if yes then yes if no then no.
10:42<Tefad>except english and C/C++ don't mix well at all
10:42<Volley>ah, they mix well enough :)
10:42<Tefad>heh
10:43<Volley>i just thing the "if" is wrong inside the condition
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10:45<@Rubidium>the "if" is just syntactic sugar
10:47<THM-SFG>hmm
10:47<THM-SFG>okay
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10:47<Volley>i realize i hardly ever use that syntax ... have to check for correct usage now ...
10:48<THM-SFG>so to say it with your words, could someone of you "mess with the source" to create such an option?
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10:50<Volley>ah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_statement gives a good explanation ... :)
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10:50<Volley>and THM-SFG: well, not me. i allready fail merging patches properly :)
10:51<Celestar>patch -p0 < file
10:51<Celestar>?
10:51<THM-SFG>hm, i merged 4 patches yesterday ... first time i managed to do it
10:51<Volley>Celestar: not applying, merging!
10:51<Celestar>oh :P
10:52<THM-SFG>it sometimes is important to have them in a specific order
10:52<THM-SFG>i don't why, but that was my solution
10:53<Diadem>Hey guys. Shouldn't there be a new train in 1963? The Floss 47?
10:53<Diadem>It's 1964 now and haven't seen it
10:53<Volley>THM-SFG: propably because of how well and far patch looks for a match
10:54<THM-SFG>i wanted to merge close airport, update airport, extra-large-maps (like 8000x8000) and 2ap-per-player-per-town .... didn't work ... then i tried changing the order in my combined patch file
10:54<THM-SFG>and it worked
10:55<Volley>i wanted YAPP, timetablebased seperation, copy&paste, paxdest and a view others... i propably wanted to much
10:55<THM-SFG>was a major success for someone like me with absolute no knowledge of C or that code i merged there ... haha
10:55<THM-SFG>u tried to let paxdest out?
10:55<THM-SFG>i wanted to include it, too
10:56<Volley>well, i still have a very well working build of rc1 with most of my wishes in
10:56<THM-SFG>but it didn't compiled successfully ... so i only compiled the other four patches ... that worked
10:56<THM-SFG>i think there will occur a problem if you want compile paxdest with other patches and the newest builds ...
10:56<Volley>not to forget: distant join stations patch, for the lazy stationlwalkers :)
10:57<THM-SFG>i could compile trunk and paxdest ... but never trunk+paxdest+other patches
10:58<THM-SFG>build them something to walk ... some unused train station ^^
10:59<Volley>ah, early in game when a town won't let you eaven temporarily remove a piece of road and you just want to continue a station on the other side of the road... it's easier that way :)
11:00<Volley>( for example )
11:00<THM-SFG>nevertheless i still could use some tool to place specific industries at random ... otherwise it will take me days to plant all the industries on my worldmap ... and i can not plant all of them at random, cause oil and coal isn't found anywhere on the world ... argh
11:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12608 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1909]: pressing 'Load' did not cancel the full load order.
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>Volley: you can place drive-through stops on the road
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>THM-SFG: someone talked about making such a patch a while ago (for the scenario editor)
11:09<THM-SFG>u know who that somewas was?
11:09<THM-SFG>perhaps it was me in the forums
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11:19<Eddi|zuHause2>i can only find a feature request like this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36545 but nobody who said "i'd do it"
11:20<Forked>we should rename volts to FREEDOM UNITS
11:20<Forked>wrong channel and network
11:21<Eddi|zuHause2>very wrong :p
11:23<@Belugas>but so usual... "We should..." So, it's seems it's always the same song on every channel :)
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11:27<SpComb>Forked: André-Marie Ampère was also French
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11:27<SpComb>Alessandro Volta was Italian...
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12:04<ln->hello bjarnis
12:08-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
12:08<@orudge>heh, the old short-lived openttd cvs on SF is still accessible
12:08<@orudge>http://openttd.cvs.sourceforge.net/openttd/
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12:12<Maedhros>ooh, pre-r1
12:14<@orudge>lots of pre-r1 stuff around if you know where to look :P
12:14*orudge has various bits of pre-r1 scattered al over the place
12:14<@orudge>*all
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12:17<THM-SFG>i can see you all
12:17<yorick>oh really?
12:17<THM-SFG>yeah
12:17<THM-SFG>true
12:18<Geb>A quick question. Does industry growth work differently in multiplayer in terms of station ratings affecting it?
12:18<THM-SFG>watchin a game, havin a ottb session ... true
12:18<THM-SFG>d
12:18<THM-SFG>wasabi
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12:26<teop>good evening, can anyone help me with openTTD installetion in openSUSE?
12:26<Mirrakor>my openTTD is running on OS
12:27<teop>on my system ./config worcs fine exept for one warning:no video driver found, building dedicated only
12:28<teop>i have proprietary nvidia driver installed
12:28<@Rubidium>install the sdl development libraries
12:28<Maedhros>and make sure you get the headers too
12:28<teop>so when i run make and then make install nothing happens
12:28<Mirrakor>OS names the header packages <name>-devel afaik
12:28<teop>i have them
12:28<teop>make running without ploblems
12:29<+glx>teop: but it built a dedicated version
12:30<+glx>and driver for ottd is not the same as driver for hardware
12:30<teop>so i need more development libs
12:31<@peter1138>sdl development libs
12:32<teop>ok, thanks, i will try it
12:32<teop>thx all
12:36<+glx>and while you are installing libs, add png and zlib if there are not present :)
12:37<teop>ok:)
12:37<Ammller>teop: you know, there is already a precompiled build for openSUSE?
12:38<Ammller>(zypper in openttd)
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12:39<teop>i didnt know, but i thing it will be good if i compile it myself, i need more practice it this things:)
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12:40<Ammller>indeed :-)
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12:45<teop>(offtopic)one question about compiling: how can i find from compile.log, which files i need?
12:46<yorick>doesn't ./configure check?
12:47<teop>it check, but i cant find in log anything about problems with sdl-devel libs
12:47<teop>it even create makefile and run make
12:48<teop>so i end bothering people:)
12:49<+glx><teop> on my system ./config worcs fine exept for one warning:no video driver found, building dedicated only <-- that's the message :)
12:50<+glx>but config.log should have details on what it searched and what it found
12:50<teop>oh, there "checking SDL... not found" earlier
12:51<teop>but ucsually it looking for many different compilers, dont find them and everything OK in the end
12:52<teop>but i think i get the basic idea, thanks
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13:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12609 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove wrong comments and give more comments on the drawing part of subsidies
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13:13<Wolf01>hello
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13:17<Mirrakor>hi
13:19<Alberth>hi
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13:43<Digitalfox>OMFG I just lost a HD 500GB drive in my server... Most of my Videos were there.. Shit Shit Shit
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13:44<Patrick`>owned
13:44<Mirrakor>ye shalt not steel :P
13:44<@Rubidium>then don't use striping
13:44<Mirrakor>s/steel/steal
13:44<@Rubidium>use something 'safer'
13:44<@Rubidium>like RAID6+1
13:45<bowman>regular raid5 has never failed me :)
13:45<Digitalfox>Mirrakor who said it pirate videos?? :p
13:45<Mirrakor>noone ;)
13:46<@Belugas>like... assuming for personnal experience? ;)
13:46<Digitalfox>Hum.. I'm going to put it in the fridge :)
13:46<Mirrakor>if only I'd have a 500GB drive in my server ;D
13:46<Mirrakor>then I could start doing that :D
13:46<Digitalfox>Some People say they can recover some data if stays 2 hours on the fridge..
13:46-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
13:47<Mirrakor>hm.. I don't think the fridge will solve the problem.. I guess it depends on what happend
13:48<Digitalfox>But i suspect my problem is with the head
13:48<Digitalfox>It makes some stupid sound like hitting a wall
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13:52<@peter1138>some say ten minutes over a blowtorch works
13:54<+glx>to make a steel sculpture :)
13:54<@Rubidium>all we know is... you're screwed
13:55<Digitalfox>What the fuc*.. I had in the past some Hard drives who died, so it wasn't nothing new.. But now the strangest thing just happen.. After punch it it works again and Smart tests say it's 100% ok, no bad numbers.. Running a new test with seagte tools and until now it says it's fine :\
13:56<@peter1138>i suggest you copy everything off it and bin it
13:56<+glx>if it's back to work, backup
13:58<@orudge>[18:46:52] <Digitalfox> Some People say they can recover some data if stays 2 hours on the fridge.. <-- I had a hard disk die on me once... put it in the freezer overnight, tried it the next day, and it did work for about 20 minutes
13:59<@orudge>enough time for me to get important data off it
13:59<@orudge>but, your milage may vary, of course...
14:00<Digitalfox>orudge yeah I heard it worked.. :)
14:00<@orudge>obviously, make sure you place the disk in some sort of appropriately sealed bag, as it may be deadly for your data if not :p
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14:00<Dominik>when i turned a monitor back on after vacation it made a loud bang and a cloud of smoke emerged from it. once i had recovered from the shock i turned it back on and kept working with it for 2 more years until i got a flatscreen *g*
14:01<@orudge>Did you not have any sort of RAID mirroring setup on your server, then?
14:01*orudge has just set up a new server, he decided to plump for RAID-1 + LVM
14:02<Digitalfox>orudge no I don't.. I did had RAID 1, but needed the disck for another RAID1 of a Client...
14:02<+glx>oups :)
14:04<@orudge>oops indeed
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14:04<@orudge>sod's law, that
14:04<Digitalfox>yeah :\
14:05-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
14:05<Digitalfox>Well at least I'll back up now.. And send RMA to seagate
14:05<Digitalfox>What a scary 30 minutes I just had.. :|
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14:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12610 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: a subsidiary is a 'subcompany' and not the financial bonus for routes which is called a subsidy.
14:26<@peter1138>heh
14:27<hylje>subsidiaries, wut
14:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12611 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehicle.cpp: [NoAI] -Codechange: use EnforcePrecondition where possible in AIVehicle. Patch by Morloth.
14:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12612 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError for AITunnel. Patch by Morloth.
14:33<@Belugas>Wolf01|AWAY, of course, if EVER fundind towns are granted, vanishing towns will be too, but not on an user basis, of course
14:33<@Belugas>your arguments are not bad, i must say. but.. something makes me feel like funding a town is not in the TTD pattern at all...
14:34<@orudge>how often do you hear of transport companies funding a town in the real world, though?
14:34<@orudge>an industry, perhaps... but a town seems a bit unrealistic
14:35<@orudge>in the early days, of course, towns may build up around transport routes
14:35<@orudge>but it's rare a company will actually "start" a town
14:35-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499C494.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:35<yorick>the people that built the railways did need to sleep somewhere
14:36-!-torstenvdb [~torsten@local.torstenvdb.nl] has joined #openttd
14:37<@Belugas>yeah... they funded a town everytime they need a bed ;)
14:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12613 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (5 files): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError in AITile. Patch by Morloth.
14:37<@Belugas>so along every rails, you will find ghost towns :P
14:38<@Belugas>i agree wth orudge. Most of the time, a town funded by a company will always be a temporary one during construction of a remote industry or similar big project
14:38<@Belugas>a mine even...
14:39<@Belugas>but by essence, they are not permanent
14:39<@Belugas>-by + in
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14:42<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12614 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (5 files): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError in AISign. Patch by Morloth.
14:46<Strong99`>ey
14:46<Strong99`>i got a question over the network architecture
14:47<@Rubidium>is that a new way to ask whether you may as a question?
14:47<yorick>yes, it got introduced a week ago
14:48<yorick>ask
14:48<Strong99`>i want to make a web controller for my dedicated server
14:48<Strong99`>and wanted to know how the packets are configured,
14:48<yorick>and I wish you good luck if you come with such a question
14:49<Strong99`>the wiki doesn't say much about that
14:50<@Rubidium>the server can't be 'controlled' by means of a network connection, well only when you add a full blown client to the other end which is not the thing you want.
14:50<Strong99`>do you have an other sugestion?
14:50<yorick>rconning works without being an actualy client
14:50<yorick>actual*
14:51<Strong99`>yes thats what i wanted to get working
14:51<yorick>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Network_Protocol
14:52<@Rubidium>yorick: really? do you have proof of that?
14:52<yorick>yeah...but you need to have send a PACKET_CLIENT_JOIN and such
14:53<yorick>and be waiting for map/downloading one
14:53<Strong99`>yes but the server starts sending map info after that
14:53<yorick>yes
14:53<Strong99`>not useful for web :P
14:53<yorick>patch a server so it does not
14:54<yorick>or just disgard that info
14:54<yorick>store it
14:54<yorick>or whatever
14:54<Strong99`>but than you this: "well only when you add a full blown client" as @Rubidium said
14:54<yorick>no other way
14:54<Strong99`>than you get *
14:55<Maedhros>hehe, i like Wolf01's 0.7.0 roadmap
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14:55<yorick>huh, where?
14:56<Maedhros>yorick: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=679677#p679677 (if you were talking to me)
14:56<yorick>I was
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15:08-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
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15:08<@Bjarni>home sweet home
15:08<@Bjarni>finally home
15:09<@Bjarni>Bjarni!
15:09<@Bjarni>hah
15:09<@Bjarni>I beat you to it :P
15:12<ln->el Bjarni
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15:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12615 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rename some enums related to depot orders to make it more clear that they are no loading/unloading flags. Also add more type strictness.
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15:42<kloopy>Good evening everyone. I've read all about net_frame_freq as one of my friends has trouble connecting to any Internet server. when I'm hosting I get the "try increasing net_frame_freq" but that's no help at all.
15:43<kloopy>I've given him my complete folder to see if that helps, unless he's a newbie and messed up extracting my zip file, he's on exactly the same version (0.6.0 stable)
15:43<@peter1138>what size map?
15:43<kloopy>512x256
15:44<kloopy>He's on broadband at about 5Mb down and the standard UK up bandwidth.
15:44<kloopy>So he should be able to keep the ~3k/sec no problem.
15:44<@Rubidium>it's more the CPU that can't cope with the game I guess
15:45<kloopy>He's using a Core 2 Duo so I'd assume that should cope.
15:45<kloopy>:)
15:45<@Bjarni>OpenTTD is singlethreaded and will not use more than one core
15:45<@Bjarni>however each core should be fast enough on it's own
15:45<kloopy>He's using Vista... are there any issues with the net code for Vista (32bit home premium)?
15:45<Patrick`>yeah, I was gonna say
15:45<Patrick`>unless each thread is clocked to 100mhz
15:45<@Bjarni>that's the problem
15:46<@Bjarni>it's an MS OS :P
15:46<Patrick`>kloopy: good question, we don't know
15:46<@Rubidium>then he might have a mighty big spyware/adware/whateverisnotgoodware issue I guess
15:46<Patrick`>any I don't think anyone wants to find out
15:46<kloopy>lol
15:46<Patrick`>yeah, if his machine is riddled and it's flooding up
15:46<kloopy>He's on his way now. :)
15:46-!-A2 [~a2@dyn-62-56-53-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:46<kloopy>This is him. :)
15:46<kloopy>A2, are you spammed with spyware?
15:46<@peter1138>5 mbps is no use when it's saturated with bittorrent ;)
15:46<@Bjarni>hello "him"
15:46<A2>nope.
15:46<kloopy>He's running IRC and OpenTTD apparantly.
15:46<A2>pc used for the occasional torrent is completely switched off
15:46<kloopy>(unless there's some major porn obsession he's not telling us about)
15:47<A2>only things connecting to internet are: mIRC, Vent, OpenTTD(occasionally) and firefox which is viewing BBCNews
15:47<bowman>I've played in vista without issues, at least briefly
15:47<A2>(static page, not a video or anything like that)
15:47<kloopy>Multiplayer over the Internet, bowman?
15:47<bowman>yes
15:47-!-DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-106-226.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
15:47<kloopy>hmm
15:47<A2>the game works perfectly on single player
15:47<webvictim>perhaps he's actually a root nameserver and doesn't realise ;)
15:47<@Rubidium>when does the client get kicked? Very quickly after joining?
15:47<A2>and we've had it working quite happily on multiplayer this week with no trouble
15:47<@Rubidium>or even during downloading the map?
15:47<A2>about 2 minutes
15:48<bowman>then again I usually turn of all the crap that typically causes problems for vista users so its really not that different from xp
15:48<webvictim>the server gets constantly spammed with "client #x is slow" messages, too.
15:48<kloopy>No, I get about 6 or 7 messages about "try increasing net_frame_freq" and eventually after a few minutes he's dropped saying "no reply in 4 days"
15:48<webvictim>(i'm part of this same game :>)
15:48<kloopy>Downloading the map is fine, Rubidium.
15:48<@Bjarni>A2: I can't ping you (firewall or something) so maybe you should try to ping something on the internet to see if you get decent ping times
15:48<A2>map download takes about 30 seconds
15:48<@Bjarni>hmm
15:49<@Rubidium>then his computer can't keep up with the server (you've just shown the classic symptoms)
15:49<A2>where would you like me to ping?
15:49<kloopy>A2, ping the server...
15:49<@peter1138>...
15:49<kloopy>that's a good idea.
15:49<@peter1138>30 seconds? for a 512x256 on 5mpbs?
15:49<@peter1138>that seems rather high
15:49<@Bjarni>yeah
15:49<webvictim>it does, i have to say
15:49<@peter1138>is the server on adsl too?
15:49<webvictim>kloopy's outgoing bandwidth is >1mbit too
15:49<@Rubidium>it still smells like spyware/adware/whateverisnotgoodware infestation
15:50-!-thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E4D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
15:50<A2>Pinging www.parsnip.com [69.46.229.12] with 32 bytes of data:
15:50<A2>Reply from 69.46.229.12: bytes=32 time=136ms TTL=48
15:50<kloopy>Yes, BeThere 24Mb down 1.25Mb up.
15:50<@Rubidium>or a number of rogue processes
15:50<SmatZ>512x256 map should have ~256kB
15:50<A2>thats a transatlantic ping
15:50<@peter1138>so that should be 10 seconds max
15:50<kloopy>What does Task Manager say your CPU usage is at, A2?
15:50<A2>pinging the server:
15:50<A2>Pinging www.parsnip.com [69.46.229.12] with 32 bytes of data:
15:50<A2>Reply from 69.46.229.12: bytes=32 time=136ms TTL=48
15:50<@peter1138>you have 'pause on join' enabled, i take it? (it's default)
15:51<kloopy>Yes, Peter.
15:51<SmatZ>it happens to me sometimes, that even on LAN, I am downloading OTTD map at ~50kB/s ...
15:52<A2>sorry: pinging the server gives:
15:52<SmatZ>I think it is caused by high CPU load, as peter1138 mentioned
15:52<A2>Pinging home.kloopy.com [87.194.210.170] with 32 bytes of data:
15:52<A2>Reply from 87.194.210.170: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=56
15:52<A2>CPU usage 13%
15:52<A2>most of which is task manager :)
15:52<@Bjarni>A2: http://www.kaspersky.com/ <-- try the free trial virus/trojan horse/spyware scanner from this place
15:53<kloopy>He's just doing that now.
15:53<@peter1138>did i mention high cpu load?
15:53<A2>getting the antivirus wotsit from it now
15:54<A2>I get full frame rate from other games at this time of night
15:54<SmatZ>peter1138: pause during downloading reduces CPU load a lot :)
15:54<SmatZ>I understood you you mentioned this because of CPU load
15:55<@peter1138>no
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15:55<@peter1138>i mentioned it because 30 seconds without pause on join enabled will usually not work
15:55<kloopy>He's just joining my server again now and we're going to check his CPU load whilst he's on the server.
15:56<@Belugas>anyone else but A2 tried to access your server?
15:56<kloopy>Yes, we've had about 5 other people around the country playing with no problems at all.
15:57<kloopy>His CPU load doesn't increase above the idle rate whilst in-game.
15:57<kloopy>:(
15:57<A2>from test of CPU load before & after connecting to server - its the same
15:58<A2>get a slight peak while loading map up to 17%, but that would be expected
15:58<A2>and now averaging about 8%
15:58<kloopy>A2, are you about to boot into XP to test connecting from that OS to see whether it's something wrong with a) Vista compatibility or b) your Vista install.
15:58<kloopy>If you still ahve the problems in XP, then it's more likely your ISP.
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16:00<A2>I shall retry in XP - back in a few mins
16:00-!-A2 [~a2@dyn-62-56-53-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: <@Igloo> sorry but servers just do it for me <@Igloo> There shiney metal <@Igloo> ANd spinny wizzy fans <@Igloo> And oooooooo ;D * @Igloo spurts]
16:01<kloopy>Thanks for your help everyone, by the way... We really appreciate it. You'd not get this kind of support from the developers for any paid game. You're kind people and doing a great job! *bows* :D
16:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12616 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: r12591 didn't work as expected for NDS, move one function back to cpp
16:03<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12617 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add type safety to the Order's load and unload types.
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16:05<kloopy>Another quick, unrelated question: We were playing last Sunday and got to 1989 and we didn't get electrified rails (starting in 1969). Any idea why a) we didn't start with them and b) didn't get them at any point after that?
16:05<kloopy>I presume it's just some silly mistake I've made with the configuration of my server, but I couldn't find what.
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16:06<@peter1138>non-temperate map?
16:06<kloopy>Desert.
16:06<kloopy>Erm.
16:06<@peter1138>yeah
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16:06<kloopy>No, snow one.
16:06<kloopy>:)
16:06<A2>now on XP
16:06<@peter1138>arctic
16:06<kloopy>Last Sunday, it was snow. :)
16:06<kloopy>Yes, tahnks. :)
16:07<@peter1138>no electric engines by default in that climate
16:07<kloopy>Aha, ok! Thanks. That answers it.: )
16:08<A2>on XP - no difference to Vista
16:08<A2>and CPU usage approx the same
16:08<kloopy>So it must be an ISP thing, I guess.
16:09<A2>even if they throttled me in the evenings though a 3kb/s connection should work
16:09<webvictim>i'd expect to get that on dialup, tbh ;)
16:10<A2>also Ventrilo is working quite happily
16:10<A2>and other games like TF2 work fine at this time of the evening
16:10<Alberth>Aircraft are still stuck at r12609, it seems
16:10<@Rubidium>might be the connection to kloopy within one of your providers that causes the problem though
16:11<kloopy>We also had webvictim hosting on another ISP altogether and A2 had the same problem still.
16:11<A2>we had this problem last week as well - and webvictim tried hosting instead
16:11<A2>and same problem.
16:11<A2>anyway - I'm rebooting back to Vista as the OS doesn't make a difference, but my screens are the right way round there :) - brb
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16:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12618 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: as load and unload type are now split, some case statements got ugly.
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16:28<Patrick`>I'm thinking of getting into competitive ttd
16:28<Patrick`>coop meets my ideals but it's a bit of a big step
16:28-!-A2 [~a2@dyn-62-56-53-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:28<Patrick`>so what, just hop on a newish server and start building?
16:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12619 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: lots of documentation about window related stuff. Patch by Alberth.
16:29<Patrick`>or are there some pitfalls I should know about, like I know a while back some guy on the forums was running a "be a total fucking dickwad" server where ettiquete was banned
16:32<kloopy>For anyone who is interested in the A2 problem... It looks like Demon Internet are traffic shaping his connection so severely that it breaks OpenTTD.
16:32<kloopy>I've setup port forwarding on port 80 on my server and that port is working fine for him.
16:33<A2>I shall call them and shout at them tommorrow
16:33<kloopy>So if anyone has this trouble in future, perhaps a port 80 approach could be suggested to them.
16:33<kloopy>:)
16:33<+glx>silly ISPs ;)
16:34<A2>you'd have thought they wouldn't bother traffic shaping a 3kb/s connection realy
16:34<@Rubidium>probably some botnet has taken the port number
16:34<+glx>they probably filter ports
16:34<@Bjarni>if they don't like the port then we would be really interested to know it and also to know why they don't like it
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16:49<+michi_cc>Rubidium: I think you broke depot orders. OrderDepotTypeFlags and OrderDepotActionFlags map to the same values in order.flags
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16:50<@Rubidium>that happened previously too
16:50<+michi_cc>well, ODATFB_HALT and ODTFB_SERVICE now share one bit which can't be right
16:51<@Rubidium>michi_cc, as I said: they did before
16:51<@Rubidium>I'm currently just adding accessors to the 'current' format
16:51<@Rubidium>so I can change the format easily
16:51<+michi_cc>then something else is broken, because my trains suddenly stop when being serviced
16:52<@Rubidium>serviced in which manner?
16:53<+michi_cc>automatic train servicing
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16:58<@Rubidium>michi_cc: does http://rbijker.net/openttd/service_issue.diff solve the issue?
16:59-!-helb [~helb@84.244.90.172] has joined #openttd
16:59<+michi_cc>checking
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17:01<+michi_cc>Rubidium: it does
17:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12620 /trunk/src/order_base.h: -Fix: automatic servicing of vehicles made them stop in the depot.
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17:07<Eddi|zuHause2>bah, it's cold
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17:35<Ammller>omg, just realized the virtual keyboard for password entry :-)
17:36<Ammller>soo sweet
17:37<@Rubidium>it's been there already in two months
17:37<Ammller>but only for pw, not the usual signs?
17:37<@Rubidium>for every text input box
17:38<@Bjarni>sometimes people request stuff we already coded
17:38<@Bjarni>I wonder when the next guy will request a feature to automatically upgrade to new vehicles when they are available
17:38<@Bjarni>it happens once in a while (not often though)
17:39<Ammller>:-)
17:39<ln->i request and demand the game to have airplanes.
17:39<Ammller>but I am not able to get that keyboard ingame
17:39<@Rubidium>click on the 'edit box'
17:39<@peter1138>2 months?
17:40<@Rubidium>March and April
17:40<@peter1138>lol
17:40<@Bjarni>I like the guy who requested signal on bridges. He was sure that it's not possible just because nobody thought about it until he did
17:40<@peter1138>that's not the usual meaning of 2 months
17:41<Ammller>ah, stupid me, I tried with 0.6.0
17:41<@Bjarni>sure that's the reason... we aren't creative enough to imagine that people could use signals on bridges
17:41<@Bjarni><Ammller> ah, stupid me <-- it would be rude to disagree with you :P
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17:42<Ammller>played around with expect, but its not possible to send server pw, is it?
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17:42<Ammller>not possible to access GUI
17:43<Ammller>btw, from where does the vitual keybord take the layout?
17:44<Ammller>I play with english language but have a german keyboard
17:44<@Rubidium>your config file
17:44<@Rubidium>you probably started in German when it was introduced
17:44<+glx>language file if not in config
17:45<@Rubidium>glx: first it tries config and if that's empty, then the language file
17:45<Ammller>oh yes, the language, it was german from 0.6
17:46<@Rubidium>closing OTTD will probably give you the English version then, I guess
17:46<Ammller>well, that isn't really important, but sweet. :-)
17:46<@Bjarni>it is important
17:46<@Bjarni>for handheld keyboardless devices
17:46<Ammller>after switch to english, its english now
17:46<Ammller>oh, yeah, indeed.
17:48<Ammller>is there possible somehow to enable copy&paste?
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17:54<@Bjarni>no comment
17:55<Ammller>hmm, Scrap
17:57<ln->did you mean: Sacro
17:58<Ammller>no, scrap is the name of clipboard support for OSX
17:59<@Rubidium>Ammller: s/s//
17:59<ln->did you mean: OS X
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18:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12621 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (9 files): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError in AIRoad.
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18:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12622 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: infinite loop in case your compiler decides that enums are unsigned by default. Patch by Dominik.
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19:40<Wolf01|AWAY>'night
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21:42<gebi>hi all :)
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 08 00:00:03 2008