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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-12

---Logopened Sat Apr 12 00:00:40 2008
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06:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12664 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: do not force the 'color' pointer to be non-NULL when trying to get the load percentage.
06:01<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12665 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: make the internal speed <-> display speed conversions available to a bigger part of the code.
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06:07<@Rubidium> <- the magic ;)
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07:04<YOYO>hello quick question is it possibel to log the output generated by the dedicated server in linux? and by what command can i do it?
07:04<Eddi|zuHause2>openttd > logfile
07:05<YOYO>well i did that but it doenst log more then one centence
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>possibly add 2>&1 for also logging error output
07:06<YOYO>k ty
07:06<Ammller>and you might need a debug level
07:07<YOYO>works ty :)
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>what i never figured out is how to split the output, i.e. log to a file AND display it on the console
07:10<YOYO>jugh time to go to work cya guys and thanks agian
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07:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12666 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix: the time table GUI did not show some data in the correct manner.
07:32<bowman>Eddi|zuHause2, just tail -f the file
07:33<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: tee
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07:44<Trond>hi all!
07:45<Roujin>@seen all
07:45<@DorpsGek>Roujin: all was last seen in #openttd 43 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 50 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <all> hello kaan
07:45<Trond>would it be a hard job to make a change so that when you place two or more depots behind each other, they become one large depot? It's always annoying when I purchase a train in the depot in the back, and then have to destroy the others to get it out on the track...
07:45<Roujin>sorry Trond, all hasn't been here for 43 weeks...
07:46<Trond>oh, that means all is not here, so I'm all alone :(
07:46<Eddi|zuHause2>thanks guys...
07:46<ln>i didn't do it!
07:47<Roujin>Trond: well there have been requests for multi tile depots for a long time i think..
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07:47<Trond>would be really nice for some of the newgrf depots out there I think... but since there have been requests, I guess its hard to make?
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07:48<Trond>in 10 years time when kids are out, I will have to get myself into learning me some c++ I guess :P
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07:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12667 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: conditional 'skip/jump' orders.
07:59<Roujin>rubidium is making me stop coding and check out newest trunk again ><
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08:01<Sacro> now that sounds cool
08:07<Roujin>shall i tell you what exactly it is?
08:07<Eddi|zuHause2>NOO, i hate spoilers!!
08:09<Sacro>HOLY CRAP
08:09*Sacro is reading the gitdiff
08:10<Roujin>"Jump to order [n] when [attribute] [comparator] [number]"
08:10<pschulz01>Are you guys using git?
08:10<Sacro>Rubidium: now 0.6.0 is crappy :(
08:10<pschulz01>Sacro: Excellent..
08:11<pschulz01>Sacro: I was just about to fire up git-svn
08:11<@peter1138>time for 0.6.1!
08:11<Sacro>peter1138: 0.7.0beta1?
08:12<@peter1138>new two week release schedule
08:12<Roujin>where n = valid ordes, attribute = {Load percentage, Reliability, Maximum speed, Vehicle age, Requires service}, comparator = {=, !=, <, >, <=, >=} and number = any that makes sense
08:12<Sacro>Roujin: + true and false
08:13<Roujin>for "requires service" of course its boolean, yes..
08:13<Roujin>this is awesome O_O
08:15*Rubidium is glad at least some people like it
08:15<Roujin>aha, spotted first bug :P though i don't know if it's in the code or just in the string :P
08:15<@Rubidium>tss... how dare you
08:16<Roujin>"jump to order x when load percentage is equal to y" <--- when clicking on on an order, it sets y to that number, not x. x will always be 1.
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08:17<Roujin>erm... how to say it
08:18<pschulz01>What's the URL to clone 'svn/trunk.git'?
08:19<@Rubidium>ah, I see
08:19<Roujin>i create 5 normal orders. then i create a conditional jump by selecting the option and clicking on order #n -> it creates "jump to oder 1 when load percentage is equal to n-1"
08:19<bowman>I want an attribute for the number of vehicles with shared orders at the same station :)
08:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12668 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix (12667): swapping of variables went wrong.
08:20<@Rubidium>bowman: happy coding
08:23<pschulz01>How do I download the source from the git repository?
08:25<pschulz01>Is it available?
08:25<@Rubidium>isn't it like `git clone git://`
08:25<@peter1138>is git staying now?
08:25<Roujin>funny ^^ like this you can start coding stuff with train orders xD
08:26<Roujin>how about adding an unconditional jump?
08:26<pschulz01>Rubidium: Tried that... getting 404's (in browser)
08:26<@Rubidium>peter1138: depends on how git holds itself
08:26<@peter1138>hg is preferred, right?
08:26<Sacro>pschulz01: it won't work in your browser
08:26<Sacro>unless it supports git://
08:26<Roujin>of course i can always set some trivial condition, but just for the sake of er.. beauty or something? ;)
08:27<@peter1138>Sacro: he asked how to clone it, so i assume he has a client ;)
08:27<Roujin>just add a "always" condition or something...
08:27<@Rubidium>git clone works with that exact command I've just given
08:27<pschulz01>Sacro: Ahh.. I was using http:// (which I use for other projects)
08:28<pschulz01>Sacro: Ok.. working now,
08:29<@Rubidium>Roujin: would it really be that useful?
08:30<Roujin>I don't know. I would bet my socks that the openttdcoop guys will find SOME use for it ;) fact is, we can already archieve it with something like "jump if load percentage >= 0"
08:31<@peter1138>so no need to add anything :p
08:31<Roujin>try openttdcoop
08:34<Roujin>okay, i managed to get an assert (sorry Rubidium)
08:34<Roujin>trying to reproduce
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08:41<pschulz01>Will 0.5.x saved games work in svn/trunk?
08:41<@Rubidium>they should be
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08:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12669 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r12667): crash when a vehicle has never been to a station and the load percentage conditional variable is evaluated.
08:52<Eddi|zuHause2>Rubidium: unconditional jumps are used with if/else constructs
08:52<Eddi|zuHause2>1: if <test> jump 4
08:52<Eddi|zuHause2>2: <else>
08:53<Eddi|zuHause2>3: jump 5
08:53<Eddi|zuHause2>4: <if>
08:53<Eddi|zuHause2>5: <go on>
08:58<Eddi|zuHause2>[you can use !<test> to exchange the <if> and <else> parts, but the unconditional jump is necessary]
09:03<Roujin>well as i said you can use "jump if load percentage >= 0" to simulate an unconditional jump ;)
09:04<Sacro>hacky though
09:04<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but it looks not so nice
09:04<Eddi|zuHause2>and i assume it's quite trivial to add an "always" test
09:06<Eddi|zuHause2>what might be more tricky is to get this "always" at the right position of the sentence [in translations]
09:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12670 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: unconditional/always order 'jump/skip' variable.
09:08<@Rubidium>happy now?
09:11<@Rubidium>those lazy translators...
09:15<@peter1138>gah, stupid speakers
09:16<@peter1138>they have 'auto power saving'
09:16<@peter1138>no sounds and they off, sound starts and they'll turn on
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09:19<Roujin>Rubidium: what's with that noise level patch you posted on flyspray? Since when do you have to ask if this approach would be okay? :P
09:20<Roujin>or is it still WIP and you just wanted to tease us all?
09:21<@peter1138>that is not Rubidium
09:22<Roujin>you might have a point there.
09:22*peter1138 ponders behringer ms40s
09:22<Roujin>then, same question goes to Belugas. And excuse me for a second - *plonk*
09:23<Roujin>that was the sound of my head hitting the wall
09:23<Roujin>now it's better
09:23<@peter1138>usually it's the sound of a killfile, or /ignore...
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09:32<Roujin>well we always learn something new...
09:32<Roujin>just now i've learned that my head sounds like a killfile when it is banged against a wall
09:33<Roujin>the head, not the killfile...
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10:25<KingJ>How do I get one way roads? The option is greyed out
10:27<+glx>press buildroad then oneway (same as remove road tool)
10:27<KingJ>Ah. Thanks
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11:23<Noldo>has anyone encontered problems with using trams and other roadvehicles in the same town/city
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11:37<Eddi|zuHause2>please state the nature of the medical emergency
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause2>i knew i could draw you out with that ;)
11:49<Noldo>bus worked fine when there were no trams on the town, but started going in circles after the trams were added and one tram one-way stop was added to the order list of the bus
11:49<Noldo>this in 0.6.0
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11:56<Roujin>firstly, what are tram one way stops?
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>trams do not obey to one way
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>only busses do
11:59<Noldo>ok, brainfart, two-way
11:59<bowman>its possible to add a tram-only station to bus orders?
11:59<@peter1138>the buses will be trying to avoid the drive-through stops
12:00<@peter1138>there's probably a setting for that pathfinder penalty
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12:02<Roujin>I just checked something...
12:03<Roujin>it's possible to add a tram-only station to bus orders, but the bus will automatically skip that order.
12:04<Roujin>hmmm... why is it that wherever i go, i stumble over some bug? oO
12:05<Roujin>if there are two tram-only station orders in a row on a bus, it will skip the first one and stay on the second one forever (since he can't reach that station)
12:06<Eddi|zuHause2>ihhgitt... bugs... take them away *scream*
12:08<Roujin>uh. i should check if it's also the case for newest trunk tho... since there have been alot of changes to orders...
12:08<Noldo>why wouldn't a bus be able to go to tram stop if it can reach it by road?
12:08<Roujin>no, i'm talking about a tram_ONLY stop
12:09<Noldo>did you test tram stop on road?
12:11<Roujin>similar behavior
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12:25<Eddi|zuHause2>one more reason to separate tram stops and bus stops
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12:52<Eddi|zuHause2>arrgh... i hate C... they should have used C++
12:53<Eddi|zuHause2>now i have to manually cast the pointer to something sensible every time i try to use it...
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13:07<ln>who's they?
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13:24<Diadem>Is there an easy way to count the number of industries?
13:24<Diadem>I tried counting the number of farms but I arrive at a different number three times in a row
13:25<Patrick`>where's the entry/exit track?
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13:25<Diadem>It's impossible to count industries!
13:25<Diadem>by hand at least. There's way too many, keep loosing track
13:30<Diadem>and the industry directory insists on scrolling with at least two at once, making counting even harder
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: try reducing the window size to something countable (like 10 lines) and then scroll by pages, not lines
13:40<Diadem>Eddi|zuHause2: I tried that, but you still have to manually count the window size, and it won't nicely scroll a consistent number of lines down..
13:40<Diadem>So I still kept arriving at different answers
13:40<Eddi|zuHause2>yes it does, click on the scrollbar, it scrolls exactly one page
13:42<Eddi|zuHause2>like every scrollbar in the world...
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13:43<Eddi|zuHause2>correction, every SANE scrollbar
13:43<Diadem>I know plenty who don't yeah :)
13:43<Diadem>but point taken
13:45<Diadem>Hmm, strange I get yet another number, much lower than last time
13:46<Diadem>Ah the number depends on the size of the window :)
13:46<Diadem>So it doesn't scroll exactly one window each time ;)
13:46<Eddi|zuHause2>Patrick`: on the left, i believe
13:47<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: bugger off... or code the display of the number of entries, and a filter for the industry type
13:47<Diadem>Eddi|zuHause2: What, you can get angry at me, but I'm just pointing out your method doesn't work
13:47<Eddi|zuHause2>it does
13:47<Eddi|zuHause2>you do it wrong...
13:48<Diadem>I have my window at exactly 20 lines. It takes between 5 and 8 clicks to scroll through all farms
13:48<+glx>Diadem: why not use the minimap view ?
13:48<+glx>industry counts are shown there
13:49<Diadem>glx: really?
13:49<Diadem>lol how did I miss that :P
13:50<Diadem>Thanks mate! that's really useful
13:50<Diadem>(Ofc I still have to manually count how many I connected. But that's much easier)
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14:06<@peter1138>ln, i guess we need to allow that in ottd
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14:28<Roujin>forums down ><
14:28<Roujin>i just wanted to post somethign
14:29<Roujin>and actually i just posted something before it went down. i hope it's still there later ><
14:29<Digitalfox>I guess is phpBB 3.0.1
14:29<DaleStan>This is why you lurk #tycoon. So you get advance notice when Owen does things like that.
14:30<@peter1138>of about 1 minute ;)
14:31<DaleStan>You'll note I failed to specify how much advance notice.
14:32<@peter1138>gah, why is ubuntu's rott package not fixed up, likes debian's is (apparently)
14:34<@orudge>advance notice all the same :P
14:35<@orudge>anyway, it'll maybe be half an hour, got to update ott/ott.xmas manually
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15:10<@orudge>Forums back
15:11<@peter1138>too late
15:11<@peter1138>i've left now
15:17*peter1138 deletes all his patches
15:17<@orudge>hmm, performing a bit of maintenance, forums going down for a moment
15:19<ln>a job for a C coder:
15:22*peter1138 doesn't know any
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15:26*Eddi|zuHause2 doesn't know any either
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15:45<Wolf01>I noticed the new orders feature, great work Rubidium, but I have a request: I often make star-like routes, which require to come back every time to the source station to load, this feature allow me to make vehicles go back only if they don't have enough cargo, but is annoying that you need always to select "conditional jump" every time, is possible to remember the last selection?
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16:04<Diadem>Removing towns is such a drag
16:04<Diadem>I should make a patch that automates it :)
16:04<Diadem>Three new buttons in the town options "plant trees around town" "Kill all trees around town" and "kill buildings and roads"
16:05<Prof_Frink>Nah, new button "Land UFO here" and watch the fireworks
16:06<Wolf01>I can understand the plant trees around town, but why kill them? o_O
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16:09<Ammller>Wolf01: you can't plant if you don't remove them first
16:10<Wolf01>but why remove them, causing the local authority to drop your rating to plant them again and raise the rating a little?
16:13<xahodo>Hello, I made a bug report ( ), but I forgot to set the severity. :S
16:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12671 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix (r12644): orders window of competitors' vehicles was missing a resizebox
16:17<SmatZ>xahodo: hello, no problem
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: the cheat/abuse there is that killing trees cannot lower your reputation below 0, so after rebuilding the trees you have more reputation than before
16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>so you can again destroy buildings until they don't allow this anymore
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>and i really think that needs to be fixed
16:25<SmatZ>it is not a bug, it is a feature
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. towns do not allow cutting trees below a certain reputation
16:25<SmatZ>you would be stuck with building anything very soon then
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>fine, it needs to be balanced
16:26<Eddi|zuHause2>there is no real reason to tear down entire cities
16:26<Eddi|zuHause2>the effect of cutting trees needs to be tuned down
16:27<Patrick`>you can tune cities so that they cease to grow/get in your hair
16:27<Eddi|zuHause2>otherwise you have never enough reputation left after leveling terrain for your station/airport
16:27<Patrick`>zero growth without servicing, imo
16:28<Eddi|zuHause2>Patrick`: a) it's not 0, b) servicing an industry in the town counts as servicing
16:28<Eddi|zuHause2>c) industries in towns should actually be IN towns
16:30<Diadem>The ability to remove cities by removing/planting trees has ben around since the original TT
16:30<Diadem>And it's a needed feature. The game would be very frustrating if you couldn't remove cities
16:30<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, and since then it is an abuse/cheat
16:30<Diadem>not more than building railroads to make money is
16:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i do not mean trees influencing reputation
16:31<Eddi|zuHause2>but the killing trees below 0 reputation
16:31<Diadem>If you couldn't raise/lower land around towns with appalling reputation you'd never be able to b uild effecdtive lines
16:32<Eddi|zuHause2>yes you can, by raising your reputation by good service
16:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12672 /trunk/src/widgets/ (dropdown.cpp dropdown_type.h): -Codechange: Add support for variably-sized drop down list items.
16:32<Diadem>*IF* you service the town. Which is not the case for most towns. At least not if you're industry-oriented
16:33<Eddi|zuHause2>like i said, industries do count as service
16:33<Diadem>And that takes time
16:33<Diadem>Only within 20 tiles of town center, right?
16:33<Eddi|zuHause2>playing takes time... O M G!!
16:35<Diadem>you know what i mean. Waiting 30 years to remove a single town would be extremely annoying
16:35<Diadem>I don't know if it'll take 30 years, but it'll take a looong time to remove a medium-sized town and level all the land around it
16:35<Diadem>if you couldn't use the trees-trick
16:36<@peter1138>er, why are you removing towns?
16:36<Diadem>If they are in the way :)
16:36<Diadem>I'm already playing with lowest possible number of towns but they are still everywhere :)
16:36<Wolf01>Ibend my tracks if there's something in my way
16:36<@peter1138>or curves
16:37<Patrick`>we need a "very low" town density
16:37<Patrick`>akin to very low industry density
16:37<@peter1138>if you're complaining that it takes too long to remove a town, then you are wasting your time
16:37<Patrick`>it's unbalanced because the map size went up without the densities being adjusted
16:37<Patrick`>Diadem: magic bulldozer
16:38<Diadem>peter1138: no no no, I'm talking in case of what Eddi|zuHause2 is suggesting
16:38<ln>"Who's going to take us seriously if we don't have a laser pointer?" -- House
16:38<Diadem>It's fine, currently, imho
16:41<Wolf01>mmh seem I found a bug: trying to remove a road, I spent money to remove nothing because the local authority didn't allow me
16:45<Wolf01>this happens specially with T roadbits, when I'm trying to remove the useles roadbit, I spend money but it is there
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17:39<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12673 /branches/noai/ (108 files in 9 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r12596:12672. Note that due to the order rewrite AIOrder.ChangeOrder does currently not work as expected.
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17:41<Hagbard>Hi all, question: Can you make a train skip a station if there's no platform available?
17:42<Prof_Frink>The passengers would get angry
17:42<Hagbard>Hmm, true.
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17:53<xahodo>Prof_Frink: Well, that doesn't matter because once the train stops at a station, they get launched anyway. :D
17:56<Hagbard>Hmm, a nice feature would be to reverse a trains orderlist.
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17:58<Hagbard>That is, create a train in one depot, fill in the order, then create a copy of that train with it's orders, and then drag'n'drop it on another station (preferably facing the other direction) and click on reverse order list, and BOOM, you have two trains going each direction on the track.
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't understand the sense of this feature, usually you have trains going back and forth, so you have the second train going the same path with a little offset
18:04<Wolf01>eddi, think about city service, one route going clockwise and one route counterclockwise on a ring around a city
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe, but does that really happen that often that you can't just shuffle around the orders manually?
18:05<Hagbard>Eddi|zuHause2: Quite often yes.
18:05<Wolf01>for each city?
18:06<Wolf01>I have about 10 cities serviced that way
18:06<Patrick`>yeah, it's just personal preference
18:06<Wolf01>which means 20 routes
18:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i typically service my cities in an X shape or in an U shape
18:06<Hagbard>I have one big railway (atleast I try to) which connects all greater cities, and then smaller routes to that station from smaller cities.
18:07<Eddi|zuHause2>but still, you can copy the orders, and drag them around in the order window
18:07<Wolf01>a "skip order if doesn't accept cargo type" would be useful, but it should be extended dynamically with newindustries
18:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12674 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_station.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1902]: Colour remaps on station sprites only worked for company colours.
18:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12675 /trunk/src/widgets/ (dropdown.cpp dropdown_type.h): -Codechange: Add support for custom drawing of drop down list items.
18:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean draw things other than strings?
18:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12676 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Reinstate colour selection buses, absent since r6455.
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>yay busses ;)
18:22<@peter1138> < cos that looked silly
18:22<@peter1138> < and that just isn't the same
18:25<Wolf01>and the orange colour is weird, too bright
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18:25<@peter1138>it always is
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18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i always use dark blue
18:26<@peter1138>to hide your stuff on the minimap?
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18:27<teilzeitstudent>hey guys... i'm having some issues with the "service intervall" of trains. when a train is loading at some station and the service intervall time kicks in, the train will leave the station and then get confused with waypoints etc :/
18:27<teilzeitstudent>any way to fix thix? :p
18:27<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not like the player map gets used a lot in single player without AI ;)
18:27<Eddi|zuHause2>teilzeitstudent: turn off servicing ;)
18:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12677 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_order.cpp ai_order.hpp ai_order.hpp.sq):
18:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: rework of the OrderFlags to support the new order possibilities in OpenTTD. As a result of this the following has changed:
18:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: * AIOF_UNLOAD and AIOF_TRANSFER cannot be used at the same time anymore. Use AIOF_NO_LOAD and AIOF_TRANSFER for the same result.
18:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: * AIOF_FULL_LOAD will now always full load the vehicle and not full load any when the corresponding patch setting has been set. Full load any can be achieved with AIOF_FULL_LOAD_ANY.
18:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: * AIOF_NON_STOP has been replaced by AIOF_NON_STOP_AT_INTERMEDIATE_STATIONS and AIOF_NON_STOP_AT_DESTINATION_STATION instead of determining the non-stop workings based on a patch setting.
18:28<Eddi|zuHause2>teilzeitstudent: use specific service orders to turn off automatic servicing
18:28<Eddi|zuHause2>BAH! bold and uppercase!
18:29<teilzeitstudent>Eddi|zuHause2, well, that doesnt work from within a running game, does it?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause2>teilzeitstudent: yes, use Ctrl+GoTo Depot from the order window
18:30<teilzeitstudent>Ah, use depots as waypoints, sort of thing?
18:30<Eddi|zuHause2>the "service at depot" order makes the train ONLY go to depot when that order is active, and the service interval is up
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>so it will not go to depot unnecessarily
18:31<teilzeitstudent>altight, i'll try that then. thanks
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18:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12678 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1918]: when a road vehicle has a tram only stop multiple times in a row in it's orders, only the first one would be skipped.
18:43<[1]Roujin>sorry rubidium, i found another bug before you could fix the first one :P
18:44<Eddi|zuHause2>"the first bug" ... in your imagination maybe ;)
18:44<[1]Roujin>the first one of the two i found today, not the first one in OpenTTD ;)
18:46<[1]Roujin>sorry to be distracting you from more interesting stuff like conditional orders.. ;)
18:49<[1]Roujin>good night
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18:53<Diadem>Yeah! Half a billion income from trains!
18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>come back when you get a REAL half billion
18:54<ln>you mean billion in the non-american sense?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>(where billion = 10^12)
18:54<Diadem>hehe lol
18:55<Diadem>Well it's only 1973
18:55<Diadem>Who knows in 2073 :)
18:55<Diadem>But ok, for the British amongst us: Half a billiard
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>man, this "marbles" game is addicting...
18:55<Diadem>whoops, milliard :P
18:55<Diadem>(Now half a billiard *that* would be a challenge)
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19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>the poor table...
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19:29<Chrill>simple q: how do I play with parameters for NewGRFs? Do i simply add them behind the .grf in openttd.cfg?
19:30<@peter1138>or set them in the gui
19:30<Chrill>the wut?
19:30<@peter1138>the gui
19:30<Chrill>Oh.. heh
19:31<Diadem>LOL Grain on my station from 7 different sources :)
19:31<Chrill>comma to separate parameters or spaces? :P
19:31<Chrill>x, x, x etc. or x x x etc.?
19:35<Chrill>well im off, night and thanks
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19:37<Diadem>LOL now I have lifestock from 10 different sources on my station
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19:58<Diadem>Hmm, how is this possible
19:58<Diadem>I move 10000 goods a month to a town
19:58<Diadem>and after a few years it suddenly doesn't accept goods anymore
19:58<Diadem>Why is my town shrinking while I transport so many goods to it?
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>you do it wrong
20:00<Diadem>but what do I do wrong?
20:00<Diadem>Is it because the town is 90% station?
20:00<+glx>how is the passenger transport?
20:01<Diadem>I mean it has plenty of room to grow in the remaining 10% :)
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>town growth is not dependent on what you deliver, just how many stations you service
20:01<+glx>did you remove the road tile under town name?
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>also, a town will not grow if you destroy the road under the name
20:01<Diadem>I have always understood that goods sped up town growth? There's probably a maximum, but still
20:01<Diadem>Delivering passengers to it with good rating
20:01<Diadem>ah now *that* might be a problem
20:02<Diadem>Just the road under the name? Or others as well?
20:02<Eddi|zuHause2>well, the other roads must be connected to that tile ;)
20:03<Diadem>Hmm, there's 5 tracks of railroad through there :)
20:03<Diadem>but I guess I can put roads down. Is it aproblem if there's a railroad through the road?
20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>you should have considered that before demolishing the town ;)
20:04<Eddi|zuHause2>historically, stations were mostly placed at the edge of towns, which then grew heavily around these stations, so they are now in the center
20:04<Diadem>I didn't know :)
20:05<Diadem>I thought it would grow if I gave it plenty of room at the side
20:05<Diadem>It's only 1 tile away from the center, after all
20:05<Diadem>And I would've placed my station further away, but the edge of the map is in the way
20:05<Eddi|zuHause2>take a bigger map ;)
20:06<Diadem>Bigger than 1024x1024?
20:07<Diadem>I'm transporting goods to this town precisely because it's at the edge of the map actually
20:07<Diadem>It just would've been better it it were 5 tiles further from the edge :P
20:07<Eddi|zuHause2>i never had your kind of problems...
20:08<Diadem>You have to consider the scale of my operations :)
20:08<Diadem>There's 300 goods trains on that line
20:09<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i really am a passenger network guy...
20:09<Eddi|zuHause2>only sporadically i throw in cargo trains
20:09<Diadem>I'm not. I dabble a bit in aircraft, but my trains are industry only
20:09<Diadem>But thanks for your advice. I'm fast-forwarding now for a bit and town seems to be growing normally now
20:09<Diadem>in fact it's growing like mad :P
20:11<Patrick`>mmm, town growth
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>take this station for example:,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png
20:11<Patrick`>I think I'll enjoy ecs a lot more
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>when i built it, there were no houses near there
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>it hardly accepted passengers
20:12<Patrick`>there's nothing satisfying in hooking up industries and solving the logistic problem of building really wide train lines
20:12<Patrick`>for me, at least
20:12<Patrick`>one thing bugs me - irl, some industries would be supplied by the closest available
20:12<Diadem>Eddi|zuHause2: I know. I always build my airports way outside towns and wait for 'em to grow
20:12<Patrick`>not the farthest away as currently happens
20:13<Diadem>Eddi|zuHause2: I just don't use trains for 'em. And I only service a few towns with my aircraft :)
20:13<Diadem>But I do do it, a bit ;)
20:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Patrick`: introduce cargo destinations ;)
20:14<Diadem>Patrick`: I don't know. I find it quite satisfying to see 5 lanes of good trains packed to the brim :P
20:14<Diadem>*goods trains
20:15<Eddi|zuHause2>Diadem: in that game i made "many" towns, and a ratio of 1:40 for "cities"
20:15<Eddi|zuHause2>you end up with lots of villages to connect with side lines ;)
20:15<Eddi|zuHause2>also, it was with passenger destinations
20:16<Diadem>One day I'll try a passenger only game
20:16<Diadem>But for now my coal is hooking up all industries on this map
20:16<Eddi|zuHause2>after PBS, that is one of the most important patches to get trunk ready
20:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i just don't see it happening anytime soon, though...
20:16<Diadem>At least all iron ore / wood / farms. I don't bother with oil (they close too soon anyway) and coal can't be retransported so not as much fun
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20:17<Diadem>377 industries to connect total. Done 142 now :)
20:18<Eddi|zuHause2>well, each time i tried to get along with ECS, i gave up, because its sense of "difficulty" does not match my playing style
20:19<Diadem>Nah I don't use ECS either :)
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20:19<Diadem>Just vanilla 0.6.0
20:19<Diadem>Though I'm thinking of getting pbs
20:19<Eddi|zuHause2>basically, it does not obey to the "stability" setting
20:20<Eddi|zuHause2>you see PBS in my picture
20:20<Diadem>It's useful, but I don't really need it for my current network layout
20:21<Eddi|zuHause2>it is pretty much essential for mine...
20:21<Diadem>I have no tracks crossing, just merging and splitting
20:21<Diadem>Like rivers
20:21<Eddi|zuHause2>i tried without for a while, but i constantly hit the limits of presignalling
20:22<Diadem>Like a giant river of iron ore flowing through a steelmill :P
20:23<Eddi|zuHause2>like this station:,%2024.%20Dez%201939.png
20:23<Eddi|zuHause2>it is just not possible to get it right with presignals
20:24<Diadem>yeah looks like a pbs situation
20:25<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not the path thing that is really important there
20:26<Eddi|zuHause2>but that a train chooses the right set of presignals to listen to, and ignore the ones that do not lead into its station
20:26<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: do you have alpine.grf loaded or how do you get snow there?
20:27<Eddi|zuHause2>it's an alpine game
20:27<Diadem>My network looks more like this:
20:27<Diadem>Much easier to signal
20:27<Eddi|zuHause2>i think i have the PBS version here:,%201.%20Jul%201981#1.png
20:28<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't like the #
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20:39<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: nice
20:39<Gekz>I can't play with trees visible
20:39<Gekz>I have them completely invisible
20:39<Gekz>not just transparent
20:40<Eddi|zuHause3>you are a sad person
20:40<Gekz>I cant see when there's trees
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20:42<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i occasionally turn them off, when i do terraforming, but while just watching the trains move, they must be on
20:42<Gekz>lol why
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20:42<Diadem>I sometimes bulldozer trees just because they block my view :)
20:43<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: you dont like € I see? :P
20:43<Eddi|zuHause3>not before 2002, typically
20:44<Gekz>he plays like life
20:44<Gekz>you're insane :P
20:44<Eddi|zuHause3>i just rarely get to that year :)
20:44<Diadem>But trees can sometimes be pretty
20:44<Diadem>check my hq :P
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20:44<Gekz>You made me want to compile ottd on my eee
20:44<Gekz>can I crop anything from my compile to shrink ottd
20:45<Gekz>Diadem: how useless lol
20:45<Diadem>Gekz: You can't see it, but that's a maximum height mountain
20:45<Diadem>with canals on top
20:45<Diadem>Just to waste money :P
20:45<Gekz>what size map is it?
20:45<Gekz>I like to play small maps
20:46<Gekz>so I can micromanage more
20:46<Gekz>128x128 :D
20:46<Gekz>I play multiplayer, 4 people
20:46<Gekz>on 128x28
20:46<Gekz>that was insane
20:46<Gekz>oh dear the whole sentence was crap.
20:46<Diadem>lol that sounds really insane
20:46<Gekz>I owned the air
20:47<Gekz>and the trains
20:47<Gekz>my friend owned the buses
20:47<Eddi|zuHause3>i play something around 1024x1024, too, sometimes a little asymmetric
20:47<Gekz>and then the other two were just scavenging :P
20:47<Patrick`>just for once I want to play normal density 256 squared
20:47<Patrick`>like the old days
20:47<Eddi|zuHause3>and a pretty big scale
20:47<Patrick`>but 512 always calls me back
20:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i can't play 256x256 anymore... the map fits almost completely on the screen...
20:48<Gekz>what the hell
20:48<Gekz>how can trams be in 0.6.0
20:48<Gekz>you can get them stuck on tracks
20:50<+glx>bad track design
20:50<Gekz>glx: no, multiplayer + trolls
20:50<Eddi|zuHause3>this station could use a little PBS, too:,%2023.%20Jan%201952.png
20:50<Gekz>or misclicking of a noob you're vsing
20:53<Gekz>I wonder if i can download the ottd source to ram, and compile in ram
20:53<Gekz>with 1GB
20:53<Gekz>this should be exciting
20:53<Eddi|zuHause3>1GB? what do you need all this space for...
20:55<Gekz>RAM is good.
20:56<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean concerning OTTD
20:56<Gekz>compiling it
20:56<Gekz>with the actual files residing in the ram as well
20:56<Eddi|zuHause3>how would that require that much space?
20:56<Gekz>no idea
20:56<Gekz>I'm saying I already have that much
20:56<Eddi|zuHause3>use svn export instead of checkout
20:56-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:57<Eddi|zuHause3>but you have to specify the revision then
20:57<Gekz>why export
20:58<Eddi|zuHause3>because it does not create .svn directories
20:59<Eddi|zuHause3>which contain a copy of every file
21:02<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: where do I have to specify the revision?
21:02<Eddi|zuHause3>./configure --help
21:03<Gekz>that's not what I meant, but it answers teh question lol
21:03<Gekz>I was wondering if you meant with the svn command or the configure
21:03<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, the makefile cannot detect the revision without .svn dirs
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21:13<Gekz>can I stop it fromm compiling every language?
21:13<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, delete the .txt files
21:15<Eddi|zuHause3>make sure to keep english.txt though ;)
21:18<Gekz>no languages for me
21:21<@Belugas>OTTD cannot interpret nor display "no language"
21:28-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
21:28*Gekz cant remember the make install bundle command
21:30-!-planetmaker [] has quit [Quit: bye!]
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21:38<+glx>make bundle
21:38<+glx>and make bundle_zip _gzip _bzip2 IIRC
21:41-!-snappy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:44*Gekz proceeds to UPX compress the binary!
21:45<Gekz>woo, got it down to 800KB from 2MB
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21:51<+glx>I UPX win9x binaries, but not win32 ones
21:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12679 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Codechange : a little bit of widget enumification
21:52<+glx>to have win9x bin size equivalent to win32 bin size
21:52<+glx>gcc < MSVC on this point
21:54<+glx>but MSVC doesn't support win9x :)
21:54<Gekz>erm ll
21:54<Gekz>that still doesnt answer the quesiton
21:55<Gekz>why wouldnt you want them as small as you can get them
21:57<+glx>1723392 -> 803840 46.64% win32/pe openttd.exe
21:57<+glx>I could :)
21:57-!-tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:58<Gekz>is the the ucl or nrv algorithm upx?
21:58<+glx>2632704 -> 1055232 40.08% win32/pe openttd.exe <-- that's the win9x
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22:03<@Belugas>:) my sn will be pleased... I've just activated Thomas the tank engine set :)
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22:43<shodan>now the theme music is stuck in my head!
22:43<shodan>ta, Belugas!
23:01-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
23:03-!-Ammler [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:45<pschulz01>How do I get electric trains?
23:45<pschulz01>Belugas: :-)
23:45<pschulz01>Belugas: Re. Thomas :-)
23:46<pschulz01>I keep getting 'Not suitale railway track' message.
23:48<pschulz01>Ahah.. found it :-)
---Logclosed Sun Apr 13 00:00:26 2008