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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-15

---Logopened Tue Apr 15 00:00:27 2008
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02:57-!-pm|work is now known as planetmaker
02:58<planetmaker>morning
03:04<Celestar>\o/
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03:09<Forked>Celestar: how did it go at work yesterday? =p
03:09<Celestar>not too bad actually
03:09<Celestar>I've expected things to go worse
03:09<Celestar>:P
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04:17<extspotter>hello
04:17<extspotter>how are you all?
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04:29<extspotter>hi
04:31<@Rubidium>extspotter: sleeping
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05:11<planetmaker>g150
05:11<planetmaker>err. wrong window :P
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05:35<Kloopy>What ever happened to some patches I saw months ago for "diagonal" terraforming. Anyone seen them recently?
05:40<@Rubidium>I'd guess nothing
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07:09<Celestar>\o/
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08:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r12716 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Do not compare StationIDs with DepotIDs or WaypointIDs.
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09:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r12717 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11107): Check the TILE_NOT_SLOPED flag of the _north_ tile of multi-tile houses to decide if autoslope is allowed.
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09:43*Celestar lets out an unearthly yell
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09:49<Aylomen>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Paper My first wiki-post (only a small one). Can you please check, if it is ok and accorsing to the General Wiki Style? Thx
09:49*planetmaker adds a rumble from the lower planes of the spheres
09:54<@Belugas>Aylomen, why did you "bolded" paper that way?
09:55<Gekz>well, at least you know you're reading about paper
09:55<Gekz>xD
09:55<@Belugas>only the first occurence would have been enough
09:59<Aylomen>ok
10:00<@Belugas>apart from that, i do not see anything wrong
10:00<@Belugas>good initiative :)
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10:14<Gekz>hmm
10:14<Gekz>trying to use the alpine climate with Pikka's basic industries
10:14<Gekz>its not working out too well >_>
10:15<Gekz>for some reason it the map generates normal oil wells
10:15<Gekz>as well as Pikka's ones
10:15<Gekz>>_>
10:17<Eddi|zuHause2>they both use newindustries features, it's not expected to go well at all
10:17<yorick>do any openttd versions for puppy linux exist?
10:17<hylje>yorick: ask puppy :P
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>yorick: does it have a compiler?
10:18<Gekz>yorick: do not use puppy linux
10:18<Gekz>you will not get a working version of openttd for it
10:18<Gekz>give up now.
10:18<Gekz>seriously.
10:18<yorick>Eddi, nope
10:18*Gekz knows the developer of Puppy and used to contribute
10:19<yorick>hmm...isn't there anything that can boot from usb pendrive and runs openttd?
10:19<Gekz>you could try SliTaz
10:19<Gekz>http://slitaz.org/en
10:19<Gekz>it has a compiler :)
10:19<Gekz>and can be installed to a usb
10:19<@peter1138>hmm, openttd livecd!
10:19<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: is there a patch to slow down the speed that days change?
10:19<@peter1138>(or key, heh)
10:19<Gekz>peter1138: I'm already planning to make it lol
10:20<@peter1138>Gekz: turbo button :D
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10:20<yorick>I need something that also runs virtualized :)
10:20<Eddi|zuHause2>Gekz: yes, it is called daylength patch
10:21<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: I suppose you use it?
10:21<Gekz>:P
10:22<yorick>ooh-puppy can run wine!
10:22<Gekz>yorick: dont do it
10:22<Gekz>I swear to you
10:23<Gekz>I made the only "working" version of wine in 2 years
10:23<Gekz>lol
10:23<Gekz>I regret bothering
10:24<yorick>get me something else that can 1.boot from usb 2.run virtualized from usb 3.both without changing the host system :)
10:25<Gekz>I already linked you
10:25<Gekz>fark
10:25<Gekz>http://slitaz.org/en
10:26<yorick>does it run virtualized aswell?
10:26<Gekz>what OS can't be run virtualised
10:27<Gekz>yorick: how familiar are you wiht linux?
10:27*yorick quickly hides under stone
10:27<Gekz>thats right
10:27<Gekz>you look in /usr/local in puppy
10:27<Gekz>there shuold be nothing
10:28<Gekz>but almost the entire OS is in there
10:28<Gekz>for no logical reason
10:28*yorick boots puppy
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10:35<@peter1138>Gekz: does puppy compile everything locally then?
10:35<Gekz>peter1138: no
10:35<@peter1138>or is the packager an idiot?
10:35<Gekz>the idiot developer likes to move things there
10:35<Gekz>idiot
10:35<Gekz>absolute fucking idiot
10:35<Gekz>its not even /usr/local/bin
10:35<Gekz>its /usr/local/soemthingrandom/somethingworse/abinary/binary
10:35<@peter1138>lol
10:35<Gekz>and all the libraries are scattered
10:35<Gekz>old
10:35<Gekz>useless
10:35<@peter1138>so they're a windows user really
10:36<Gekz>YES
10:37<yorick>puppybackground,...puppymirror...remotedesktoppcclient...lib...man...Dotpupdownloader...apps...bin
10:37<Gekz>lol
10:37<Gekz>told you
10:38<yorick>with ls, it's even worse
10:38<Gekz>I know.
10:39<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: how long are your days on OpenTTD?
10:39<Eddi|zuHause2>x4 in my last game
10:40<Gekz>whats the default?
10:40*Gekz hasnt used the patch yet
10:40*Gekz is compiling
10:41<Gekz>ah, 4 times as long as default
10:41<Gekz>ok
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10:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12718 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIVehicle::GetCurrentSpeed
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10:52<pavel1269>hi
10:55<@Belugas>hello
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11:00<yorick>32bpp screenshots are terribly big
11:01<yorick>and I mean...1.6 MB /screenshot
11:04<@Belugas>couild it be that's because there's a lot more infos/colors to capture??
11:05<Celestar>:P
11:05<Celestar>is that already compressed?
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11:05<Eddi|zuHause2>theoretically, a 32bpp picture that uses only 256 colours should compress to the same size as a 8bpp picture using 256 colours
11:05<@Belugas>wow... a screenshot of my desktop is JUST 7.6 meg...
11:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12719 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp players.cpp):
11:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: finished the Reload AI button in AIDebug Window.
11:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Note: Now there is no longer need for you to ever shut down OpenTTD while creating an AI.
11:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Just hit Reload when you made a code change, the company is killed and restarted with your latest code.
11:07<yorick>Belugas...wow...mine is only 200kb(png)
11:12<Tefad>Eddi|zuHause2: i find that rarely to be the case
11:12<Tefad>(unless you palletize first, but then it's no longer 32bpp ; )
11:13<yorick>hmm...I should put my screenshots online somewhere
11:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Tefad: just shows the compressing algorithms still allow for some improvement
11:15<Tefad>isn't png deflate only
11:16<Eddi|zuHause2>but honestly, even a trivial compressing algorithm, if it combines 4 byte and sorts for occurance, should yield a result similar to a palette
11:16<Tefad>ehhh
11:16<Tefad>perhaps
11:18<Tefad>sometimes the color sequence is changed to achive better compression
11:18<Tefad>not possible for stuff like 8bit ottd graphics ; )
11:20<Eddi|zuHause2>that's why i said with sorting... you take the highest occuring {4 byte, colour}-pattern, and assign it the lowest [Huffman]number
11:21<Tefad>i've written a huffman codec with file implementation in java.. it was.. interesting
11:21<Tefad>kind of crappy though blocksize = filesize
11:22<Eddi|zuHause2>well, huffman code is not very speed-efficient when dealing with bytes
11:22<Eddi|zuHause2>so they'd probably use other algorithms
11:23<Tefad>arithmetic encoding would be slightly better iirc
11:23<Tefad>lzma ppm are pretty good algorithms today
11:23<Tefad>for speed there's lzo
11:29<nicfer>8bit openttd graphics? so, will be possible to port ottd to the NES? lol jk
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11:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12720 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_vehicle.cpp ai_vehicle.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add: functions to get the capacity/current load of a vehicle given a cargo type.
11:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12721 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: also check articulated parts when determinine the capacity of an unbuilt vehicle.
11:37*yorick acidentally deleted over 100 meg of saves
11:37*planetmaker is reminded thus to get a new backup disc...
11:39<yorick>data recovery utility is looking for files to get back :) I deleted the backup dir instead of the regular dir
11:42<yorick>pfew...it managed to restore everything
11:42*planetmaker feels also relieve.
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11:43<yorick>why do you feel relieve for me?
11:45-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-184-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
11:46<yorick>my openttd dir began to take over 1 gb, so I thought about moving it to external hd
11:47<Sionide>ouch
11:48<Sionide>i remember when it was two floppy disks
11:48<yorick>grfs quickly take up my space, with some saves
11:48<Sionide>and giant screenshots of huge maps? :p
11:48<Sionide>heh
11:49<yorick>not even
11:49<Sionide>saved to bmp of course!
11:49<yorick>that would seriously hurt to the flashdrive
11:50<yorick>wonderfull how much you can get on the internet
11:51<yorick>there is almost more data than storage on i
11:51<yorick>t
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12:06<kjetil__>hrm
12:06<Forked>huh
12:06<Forked>[Lag: 207 (??)] :\
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12:07<Forked>pong
12:07<Forked>:)
12:08<Eddi|zuHause2>0 seconds
12:08<Forked>after the reconnect =)
12:08<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but you reconnected before you said you'd leave :p
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12:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12722 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add (or -Feature for yorick): added AITile::IsSteepSlope(), AITile::IsHalftileSlope() and AITile::GetComplementSlope()
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12:58<hylje>No planes
12:58<hylje>No cars
12:58<hylje>No boats
12:58<hylje>Trains only
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13:34<extspotter>Hylje?
13:34<extspotter>Are you playing online or something?
13:37<hylje>:o
13:37<hylje>as a matter of fact yes
13:38<Digitalfox>YESYES... I WAS ADMITTED TO UNIVERSITY =0
13:38<Digitalfox>Now hard study to get ready :(
13:39<@Bjarni>admitted?
13:39-!-extspotter [~extspotte@host86-134-53-216.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
13:40<Digitalfox>Well I work already and have more than 24 years, so I had to make special exams to prove I can enter :)
13:40-!-extspotter [~extspotte@host86-134-53-216.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:40<extspotter>which game?
13:41<@Bjarni>I thought it sounded odd considering my impression of your age
13:42<@Bjarni>Digitalfox: you are now a special case
13:42<@Bjarni>we noticed ages ago
13:43<@Belugas>[13:42] <@Bjarni> we noticed ages ago <--- hoo.... a joke :D
13:43<@Belugas>AGES
13:43<Digitalfox>Portugal is having a hard time and higher education is needed to have qualifications to work on IT freely..
13:43<@Bjarni>the same goes for Spain and Italy
13:44<@Bjarni>it's a serious issue >_<
13:44<yorick>bjarni!
13:44<yorick>just 11 minutes too late
13:44<Digitalfox>While I have lot's of certifications.. Like MCSE, CCNP and others most companys now want a guy with higher education to mantain there networks
13:44<Digitalfox>So don't have a choise.. But I do think higher education is always better :)
13:45<@Bjarni>me too
13:45<@Bjarni>that's why I'm aiming at a master degree
13:45<Digitalfox>Bjarni I'm thinking doing the same also :)
13:45<Digitalfox>More is never less ;)
13:46<@Bjarni>I will beat you to finish it
13:46-!-Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-104-45.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
13:46<Digitalfox>well 3+1 years.. So you have 4 years to do it ==
13:46<Digitalfox>=0
13:47<@Bjarni>uni will kick me out if it takes me another 4 years
13:47<@Bjarni>would fail to meet the 5 year limit for going from bachelor to master
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14:40<SmatZ>hllo
14:40<SmatZ>e
14:40<pavel1269>i
14:40<pavel1269>h
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15:10<@Belugas>finally the beast compiles :D
15:11<Noldo>which beast?
15:11<@Belugas>the stuff i'm workig on :)
15:11<@Belugas>@work...
15:23-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-139-63.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:31<yorick>wow...DO NOT EXECUTE THE INSTALLER....(new line)....Execute the installer?....(confirmation buttons: yes/no/cancel)
15:31<yorick>*scrolls right* ...UNLESS YOU TRUST IT
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15:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: richk * r12723 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (53 files in 4 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r12645:12656.
15:50<hylje>delicious syncing
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15:53<dih>http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/funny_grf_issue.png
15:54<dih>hylje: you should not eat it...
15:54<@peter1138>too many engines
15:54<@peter1138>errr
15:54<@peter1138>wagons
15:54<SmatZ>^_^
15:54<@peter1138>the grf says STOP for a reason
15:54<@peter1138>(or MORE)
15:54<dih>ah
15:54<dih>funny
15:55<yorick>sync again?
15:55<@peter1138>(and yes, it is a 'bug' in dbsetxl)
15:55<dih>i thought that was kinda obvious :-D
15:55<Roest>hi
15:56<Roest>i'd need some help
15:56<yorick>oh noes...roest....it will go in our metals corroding them!
15:56<@peter1138>"lololololol" "LOL ROFL LOL ROFL"
15:56<@peter1138>you guys have intelligent conversation, i see
15:57<hylje>all the time dear peter
15:57<Roest>i'm trying to bring the bettergraphs up to trunk, last patch is like 10400
15:57<Roest>so some stuff disappeared
15:58<dih>peter1138: no - just funny
15:58<+glx>theorically the grf should not allow that kind of train to start
15:59<@Belugas>Roest, the stuff might not have dissapeared, but changed placed, most of the time
15:59<@peter1138>alas that feature was introduced later, i believe
15:59<Roest>yea i know, i'm down to very few compüile errors
16:00<ln>english only
16:00<yorick>}|
16:00<dih>and no ln
16:00<Roest>cant find anything to fix : const EngineInfo *ei = EngInfo(e);
16:00<hylje>e^x
16:00<@peter1138>include engine_func.h, probably
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16:02<Roest>thanks, bah the search funktion in eclipse isnt too reliable it seems
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16:04<Roest>ok the bettergrpahs stuff compiles now, now only some strange errors in the original graph code remain, that compile fine alone
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17:01<@Belugas>and here i go back home...
17:01<@Belugas>good night all
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17:06<Lakie>Night Belugas.
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17:30<nicfer>one question, if the ds port of ottd gets multiplayer, it would be compatible with the current servers?
17:30<nicfer>with map sizes 128x64 or inferior
17:30<nicfer>256x128*
17:31<Digitalfox>nicfer I think so, but I'm not a dev so don't take my word :)
17:31<Lakie>I'd imagine as long as the version is the same and the map size on server are the same, it coult?
17:31<Lakie>could*
17:32<Lakie>But, developers would know more about that.
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17:37*Roest bangs head against wall
17:41<dih>night
17:43<@peter1138>depends how much is removed for the DS port
17:45<Lakie>I'd imagine both would need to have roughly the same features or atleast the ability to process them even if it doesn't have the interface to call them?
17:45<Lakie>I suppose its not quite like TTDpatch though, so it doesn't need everything as the server should handle most of the processing?
17:47<@peter1138>they all need to have exactly the same features
17:47<@peter1138>and all machines handle all the processing
17:47<Roest>someone feel like giving me a clue?
17:48<Lakie>Ah, so like TTDpatch they do need the functions for those actions, wouldn't require the interface though, as even if it can't issue that command, it could still process it?
17:48<Lakie>Again, this is based on thoery, and peter will correct me.
17:48<@peter1138>yeah, as long as the core is the same, the gui side doesn't matter
17:48<@peter1138>Roest: regarding?
17:49<Lakie>nicfer: does that help you?
17:50<Roest>i can give you a diff to see it yourself
17:50<Roest>http://stinfwww.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~mai03gex/bettergraphs.patch
17:51<@peter1138>you haven't described a problem
17:51<Roest>basically some stuff that compiles fine when just checked out butnow gives error with the patch and some additional includes before
17:52<Roest>some compares between int types it doesnt like
17:54<@peter1138>that's like "my email isn't working"
17:54<Roest>lol
17:55<@peter1138>what happens? "nothing"
17:55<@peter1138>ok, do you get an error message? "yeah"
17:55<Roest>compile errors
17:55<@peter1138>what does it say? "don't know, i didn't look"
17:55<Roest>sec
17:55<@peter1138>sorry, went off on a customer rant then ;P
17:55<+glx>without the actual errors it's hard :)
17:55<Roest>http://paste.openttd.org/2318
17:56<Roest>line 1209 would be line 8 here
17:57<Roest>INVALID_DATAPOINT is defined so: static const int64 INVALID_DATAPOINT = INT64_MAX;
17:59-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-135.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:04*peter1138 knows not, and is going to sleep
18:04*Roest remains clueless
18:06<SmatZ>why don't you define INVALID_DATAPOINT as OverflowSafeInt64 ?
18:06-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<SmatZ>night peter1138
18:07<Roest>actually that's not the point, the problem is that is the original code in trunk that compiles fine, just some additional includes and some code before it lead to these errors
18:10<SmatZ>static const OverflowSafeInt64 INVALID_DATAPOINT(INT64_MAX); // Value used for a datapoint that shouldn't be drawn.
18:10<SmatZ>this is the code from trunk
18:11<SmatZ>defined as OverflowSafeInt64
18:11<Roest>ah crap
18:11<nicfer>MMOTTD anyone?
18:11<nicfer>MMO-OTTD
18:11<Patrick`_>nicfer: ooh, yes
18:11<Roest>thanks for the clue i guess
18:11<SmatZ>no problem :)
18:12<Patrick`_>I want an epic mount for my coal
18:12<SmatZ>:-D
18:12<Roest>thing is that patch is so old, the removal line still had it as int64
18:13<Roest>nice two hours wasted on that
18:14<nicfer>why openttd's MP uses client processor cycles for doing networking tasks?
18:14<nicfer>shouldn't the server do that?
18:14<Patrick`_>some things can't be offloaded
18:14<SmatZ>what networking tasks?
18:15<SmatZ>all clients have to compute whole world
18:15<SmatZ>else you would end with very high bandwidth needs
18:15<Patrick`_>otherwise the server would have to send a savegame every tick
18:15-!-Mirrakor [~linuser@p57B2F7AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15<Patrick`_>anywhere up to 100 mbit per client
18:16<nicfer>I heard that the client is like a passive server or something
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18:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12724 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): [NoAI] -Fix r12720: also add regression test for new functions
18:20<Roest>wheeeeeee
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18:20<nicfer>so, is possible to do instead of a lot of small servers one bigger server where all the players are in? like in a MMORPG
18:21<Patrick`_>hmm
18:21<Patrick`_>the map size is a problem
18:22<SmatZ>everything is possible, but for this, you would need really deep and wide changes into the game code
18:22<Patrick`_>unless you just did 2048x2048 and had a buttload of clients
18:22<Patrick`_>I don't imagine it would take too many changes to make ottd servers mesh like an irc network
18:22<Patrick`_>have one "master" with 8 "intermediates" each of which has 8 clients
18:22<Patrick`_>64 companies on a max sized densely-industrialised map isn't too much of a headache
18:23<Patrick`_>SmatZ: the problem is that people naturally wantto build lines as long as possible, but you can't combine that with the gigantic map size of an MMO
18:23<Patrick`_>loaded in segments
18:23<SmatZ>Patrick`_: true :-)
18:24<nicfer>SmatZ: like increasing client limit to 60 and max companies to... a quantity limited only by color limit
18:24<@Rubidium>nicfer: other limits come before the color limit
18:24<nicfer>this would be better for keeping the servers safe+
18:25-!-Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-104-45.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
18:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12725 /3rdparty/squirrel/include/squirrel.h: [Squirrel] -Fix: another MSVC warning
18:25<nicfer>instead of 60 admin for 60 servers they would be on one server, working by turns
18:26<SmatZ>for really big maps, you couldn't receive information about whole map - only the part you are interested in... you really don't want to download 1GB map and receive 10MB of changes every second
18:26<SmatZ>not talking about random() consistency
18:26<SmatZ>and newgrfs
18:26<nicfer>so always will be there an admin to stop unfair players
18:27<SmatZ>and also, everywhere you suppose you have 32bit tile index
18:27<Ammler>most servers runs without admin
18:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12726 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_town.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1877]: overflow causing strange building behaviour in towns.
18:28<Patrick`_>SmatZ: yes, but how do you approximate what part of the map you are interested in?
18:28-!-TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users113.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: http://tinodidriksen.com/]
18:28<Patrick`_>people always build as long a train line as possible
18:28<Patrick`_>I guess you could do trains crossing off the edge of the map
18:28<Patrick`_>into another map
18:28<nicfer>Ammler: yes, and they get screwed up because some lurker enters and destroy everything
18:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12727 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix (API CHANGE): return -1 to indicate invalidity, instead of 0 or -1, depending on the class
18:32<SmatZ>Patrick`_: talk to nicfer, I am not defending his idea at all
18:32<Patrick`_>it's a good idea. I look forward to seeing his patch
18:34-!-teeg2 [~jmathias@invader.mindriot.as] has joined #openttd
18:35<Patrick`_>at least a half-assed attempt towards a buggy alpha patch will give people the chance to see it work
18:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12728 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (12 files): [NoAI] -Codechange: always let functions return Money when they return something that can be quantified as money.
18:35<Patrick`_>fr'ex, I did a 5-line patch once
18:35<teeg2>hrm. I see I forgot to quit my irc client at work :(
18:35<Patrick`_>it's in trunk, and it's blatantly not any of my original stuff
18:35<Patrick`_>but to see the idea in practice
18:35<SmatZ>@seen teeg
18:35<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen teeg.
18:35<SmatZ>!seen teeg
18:35<Patrick`_>plus it'll all be obsoleted anywa
18:35<SmatZ>teeg2: you don't seem to be active at all here
18:36<teeg2>SmatZ: I didn't say anything the few hours I was at work, I was too busy reading my first thread (and its responses) on the forum. and I was afraid people here would bite if they knew I was the one who started muttering about OO :P
18:37<teeg2>(and tgr is apparently taken/reserved, so I can't really use that nick)
18:38<SmatZ>:)
18:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12729 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12727: one compiler warning (BAD TRUEBRAIN, BAD BAD TRUEBRAIN)
18:38<SmatZ>I guess people here (with few exceptions) are not against OO
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18:44<teeg2>as long as it's used right, I presume :P
18:44<SmatZ>sure
18:44<SmatZ>not overusing it
18:45-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-135.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
18:46<nicfer>I have a better idea - interserver admins
18:47-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1E325.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:48<nicfer>so an admin from server B can help if server A is being attacked
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18:49<nicfer>other question is replacing ottd's chat with a irc client
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18:52<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12730 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/completeness.sh: [NoAI] -Fix: the regression completeness checker did not understand Valuate, thus gave some false positives.
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18:59<nicfer>what do you think about those two ideas?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>both sound like total rubbish
19:00<nicfer>instead of a big server, small servers that are interconnected
19:01<nicfer>with an irc client inside ottd it will not be necesary to connect to the server for joining
19:01<nicfer>also you will be able to chat between servers
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>it sounds even more rubbish the more you explain
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>plus, autopilot already implements an IRC <-> OTTD bridge
19:03<nicfer>but it isn't implemented in all servers
19:04<nicfer>so interchatting would be impossible
19:04<Yexo>nicfer: why would I want to chat with someone on another server?
19:05<nicfer>you can meet people
19:06<Roest>cool
19:07<Yexo>if I want to meet people, I'll go to a cafe or something
19:07<nicfer>that is because MMORPGs are popular
19:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12731 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12726): copying a 16bit array into 32bit wouldn't work
19:07<nicfer>Massive is the way
19:08<nicfer>also, not every OTTDer lives at the back of your house
19:08<Yexo>When I play multiplayer, I like to chat with the other players about the current game etc, but not with some random other person also playing at that moment
19:09<Roest>that's where the other idea comes in
19:09<Yexo>for all other chats, we already have the #openttd irc channel
19:09<nicfer>not every OTTDer is here
19:10<Yexo>that totally unrealistic idea about the gigantic maps?
19:10<Yexo>no, and not every OTTDer will chat on an ingame chat
19:10<nicfer>also, how do I find a friend mine where is he?
19:10<Roest>cellphone
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19:10<Yexo>mail him, phone him, talk to him to get on irc, go to his house, etc :P
19:11<nicfer>suppose he doesn't have cellphone, mail, he lives far, etc
19:11<Roest>wait, he doesnt have mail but plays online?
19:11<nicfer>or just you don't know him
19:11<nicfer>erm
19:11<Yexo>he can get irc if het can get openttd
19:11<nicfer>it
19:12<Yexo>if you don't know him, don't call it a friend :)
19:12<nicfer>I call friend every one I know in online games
19:12<Yexo>ok, but if they can get openttd to work online, downloading and installing an irc client won't be too difficult for them either
19:13<nicfer>in real life, my friends doesn't play ottd
19:14<+glx>introduce them to it, and they will be addicted :)
19:14<Roest>uff
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19:21<teeg2>I would actually prefer it if there wasn't any economy, so I could just concentrate on building. That's enough fun for one day, I don't want to have to fend off people who want to bug me while I'm in the building zone as well.
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19:25<Yexo>teeg2: go playing singleplayer :)
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20:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: richk * r12732 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (62 files in 4 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r12657:12672.
20:15<nicfer>why the drag&drop purchasing land single player only? Even so, lurkers can use rails or massive clicking the signs
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21:54<k-man_>hi guys
21:55<k-man_>do you still need the original data files to play openttd?
21:55<@Belugas>yup
21:55<k-man_>ok thanks
21:55<@Belugas>np
21:55<@Belugas>no problemo
21:55<@Belugas>no problemas
21:55<@Belugas>pas de problemes
21:55<k-man_>is that documented somewhere on the website?
21:56<@Belugas>nope
21:56<@Belugas>no
21:56<@Belugas>not on www.openttd.org, tough
21:56<@Belugas>as far as i remember
21:56<@Belugas>why?
21:56<@Belugas>it should?
21:56<k-man_>just wanted to know how to install it
21:56<@Belugas>quite simply.
21:57<@Belugas>there is an installer, if you want the 0.6.0 release
21:57<k-man_>does it just look for the locally installed data files?
21:57<@Belugas>otherwise, copy the nightlies on a folder, grab your original data files, put htem on a subfolder called data and...
21:57<@Belugas>boom!
21:58<k-man_>ah, ok
21:59<@Belugas>maybe the wiki has an entry for that...
21:59*Belugas checks, just to be sure
22:02<@Belugas>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Installation
22:02<@Belugas>but it's not very convincing
22:02<@Belugas>a bit better
22:02<@Belugas>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Installation_FAQ
22:11<nicfer>hmmm I think that instead of coding a music player in ottd we should make something that opens your favorite music player and control it from inside the game
22:11<k-man_>whats left to be done so that the original files are not required?
22:12<@Belugas>be my guess, nicfer. I like it when users are saying "we" and when they are actually working on stuff :D
22:12<@Belugas>a lot more k-man_
22:12<@Belugas>music is not done at all,
22:12<k-man_>but is the music necessary?
22:12<@Belugas>a lot of sprites are not done either ( estimate around 50%, iirc)
22:12<@Belugas>etc etc
22:12<k-man_>Belugas, oh, thats a shame
22:13<k-man_>fair enough
22:13<@Belugas>lengthy task
22:13<@Belugas>a shame?
22:13<@Belugas>why?
22:13<k-man_>oh
22:13<k-man_>no, wrong word
22:13<nicfer>so the jukebox in ottd would work like a remote control of your favorite music player
22:13<k-man_>just meant that its a big task
22:13<nicfer>good idea right?
22:15<@Belugas>nicfer, who cares
22:15<@Belugas>like... totally who cares?
22:15<@Belugas>are you going to code it?
22:15<@Belugas>no?
22:15<@Belugas>don't ever use the word "we" in that case
22:16<@Belugas>k-man_, it will happen one day, i'm sure. Just that i do not see it coming soon
22:16<@Belugas>and i do not want to advertise an estimate either ^_^
22:16<k-man_>Belugas, the wiki seems to indicate that there is progress being made
22:17<@Belugas>i do not refute that at all.
22:17<@Belugas>in fact, they are doing good
22:17<k-man_>Belugas, but from what i can see, your estimate was correct, about %50
22:17<k-man_>50% even
22:17<@Belugas>ho? it was ? good :D
22:18<k-man_>but thats just from what i gleaned from the wiki
22:18<k-man_>who knows how up to date that is
22:19<k-man_>the thread on the forum is very active though
22:20<@Belugas>zephyris might be the best one to ask
22:39<@Belugas>grrrrr...
22:39<@Belugas>freaking widgets :S
22:41-!-governor [~gov@d60-65-117-129.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #openttd
22:41<governor>hello :)
22:44<@Belugas>good evening governor
22:44<governor>I am new to the whole ttd business
22:44-!-mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl]
22:44<governor>but I was wondering if it is possible to have trucks take iron ore to a dock, then have the dock take them to another dock, where they are trucked to a furnace
22:44<governor>or whoever processes iron ore.
22:45<@Belugas>Yeah! A new addicted!
22:45<governor>yes
22:45-!-mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd
22:45<@Belugas>"then have the dock take them"...
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22:46<@Belugas>i fail to understand
22:46<governor>the iron mine is out of range of the dock
22:46<@Belugas>oh... yeah, it's possible
22:46<governor>i want to put ore on the dock so a boat can transport it
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22:46<@Belugas>you can use the transfers
22:46<governor>i had a depot next to the dock, but the ore sat in there, it didnt magically transport to the dock :[
22:46<@Belugas>but do not expect your truck to make money
22:46<@Belugas>only the boat will
22:47<governor>yeah i read part of the wiki
22:47<governor>but my ore never eneded up in the dock :[
22:47<@Belugas>mine+dock-> load
22:47<@Belugas>dock-alone->unload(or transfer)
22:48<@Belugas>boat->load
22:48<@Belugas>there you go
22:48<governor>i couldn't give an order for a truck to go to a dock though
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22:50<@Belugas>you need a truck stop side by side with the ship doc
22:50<@Belugas>k
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22:52<governor>ah, right next to it?
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22:52<@Belugas>yea
22:52<@Belugas>as close as possible
22:53<@Belugas>so they will bcome one station
22:54<governor>roger
22:54<governor>are people that play online really good?
22:54<@Belugas>no, my name is Belugas, not Roger
22:54<@Belugas>mugwhaha
22:54<governor>and stop calling me shirley
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22:54<@Belugas>:)
22:54<@Belugas>dunno about online people
22:54<@Belugas>i do not play
22:55<governor>i fear it because i can beat the AI
22:55<@Belugas>nor single nor online
22:55<governor>or at least im making more money
22:55<governor>why not?
22:55<@Belugas>but as they say, "try it for yourself"
22:55<@Belugas>becuase i code, governor
22:55<@Belugas>that's all i do...
22:55<governor>ah
22:55<@Belugas>too mucyh work and too little time
22:58<De_Ghosty>yes people play online is good
22:58<De_Ghosty>if all u care is money
22:58<De_Ghosty>do what those ppl do
22:58<De_Ghosty>they level the map
22:58<De_Ghosty>from one end to the other
22:58<De_Ghosty>and just haul coal
22:58<De_Ghosty>lol
22:58<governor>booo
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23:06<@Belugas>governor, iv'e been told that coop games are fascinating
23:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12733 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Merge two more Widgets arrays (town views ) into one.
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23:06<governor>I can't convince any of my friend this game is interesting >_>
23:08<Tefad>governor: sometimes i have that problem ; )
23:08<Tefad>they're just not nerdy enough
23:08<Tefad>they got ruined by ADHD-inducing games of modern era
23:08<Tefad>/some/ though find comfort in playing games like this
23:08<governor>i wish the ai wasnt AS stupid
23:09<governor>with their unreasonable zig zags
23:10<Gekz>hmm
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23:10<Gekz>doesnt switzerland use the 12.3456,78 numeric notation?
23:10<Gekz>erm, bad example lol
23:10<Gekz>123.456,78
23:10<Gekz>vs 123,456.78
23:15<@Belugas>DaleStan : do callbacks 37,38 and 3A can really return 15 bits results?
23:15<@Belugas>i though that D0XX means that XX is a byte and therefore only 8 bits
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23:16<@Belugas>3A, i may agree, regarding the 400 addition detailled in the wiki
23:16<@Belugas>but the two others...
23:22*Belugas goes to bed
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23:38<Gekz>whats teh correct way to specify where the mingw version of zlib is that I have compiled?
23:38<Gekz>LDFLAGS="-L/home/brendan/cross-utils/lib -L/home/brendan/cross-tools/lib/libpng.a" CFLAGS="-I/home/brendan/cross-utils/include/png.h" CC=i586-mingw32msvc-gcc ./configure --revision=r12717+DayLength --os=MINGW --host=i586-mingw32msvc --enable-strip --without-sdl --with-zlib=/home/brendan/cross-tools/lib/libz.a --without-png --without-freetype --without-fontconfig
23:38<Gekz>does not work
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23:42<DaleStan>Belugas: Yes, 15 bits. "D0XX" often means "D000..D3FF".
---Logclosed Wed Apr 16 00:00:48 2008