--- | Log | opened Wed Apr 16 00:00:48 2008 |
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00:39 | <De_Ghosty> | when i replace my duo with a quad |
00:39 | <De_Ghosty> | do i need to reinstall window? |
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01:40 | <Gekz> | bah, cant anyone help me lol |
01:43 | <@Rubidium> | does not work is quite ambiguous |
01:44 | <@Rubidium> | same as: |
01:44 | <@Rubidium> | crystal ball |
01:44 | <@Rubidium> | does not work |
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01:59 | <Gekz> | lol |
01:59 | <Gekz> | Rubidium: the question precedes the failing |
01:59 | <Gekz> | have a look |
02:03 | <De_Ghosty> | what do you want? |
02:03 | <@peter1138> | De_Ghosty: no, btw |
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02:04 | <De_Ghosty> | oh ok thx |
02:04 | <De_Ghosty> | cuz i was gonna give my sister the core 2 and me get new shiny quad :D |
02:04 | <De_Ghosty> | any rumor of a glimps of a price cut :D |
02:04 | <De_Ghosty> | ? |
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02:51 | * | Sionide prods GoneWacko |
02:51 | <Sionide> | morning |
02:53 | <extspotter> | hey |
02:53 | <extspotter> | Can you help me with OTTD? |
02:54 | <Sionide> | maybe |
02:54 | <extspotter> | When I try to add GRFs into the game, it freezes |
02:54 | <Sionide> | which grfs? |
02:54 | <GoneWacko> | Why hello there mister Simon |
02:54 | <Sionide> | what version of ottd? |
02:54 | <extspotter> | all fo the ones I downloaded, lol |
02:54 | <extspotter> | UKRS |
02:55 | <extspotter> | and UKRS extention |
02:55 | <extspotter> | PB viaduct |
02:55 | <extspotter> | generic trams |
02:55 | <Sionide> | extspotter, you might have downloaded a dodgy one or the download didn't work properly OR you're trying to add a GRF which conflicts with another...? |
02:55 | <extspotter> | uk trams |
02:55 | <Sionide> | GoneWacko, sup foo! |
02:55 | <extspotter> | hi wacko |
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02:55 | <Sionide> | extspotter, for example, i dunno if you can have uk trams AND generic trams.. there's only so much room in the GRF space, so to speak |
02:56 | <extspotter> | ok |
02:56 | <Sionide> | extspotter, best thing to do is to download the openttdcoop grfpack |
02:56 | <Sionide> | cos that's a whole group of GRFs including trams and stuff which is known to work |
02:56 | <extspotter> | do you have a link or is it just on grfcrawler or summat |
02:56 | <Sionide> | try that |
02:56 | <Sionide> | erm |
02:56 | <GoneWacko> | Oh not too much. I'm doing my internship in Finland and that's about it. |
02:56 | <GoneWacko> | How about your person? |
02:56 | <extspotter> | He is happy youre around :D |
02:57 | <extspotter> | In more ways than one :p |
02:57 | <Sionide> | ...yup |
02:57 | <Sionide> | extspotter, http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF_Table these GRFs are all in |
02:57 | <extspotter> | thanks |
02:57 | <Sionide> | extspotter, this file-> http://www.openttdcoop.org/newgrfs/ottdc_grfpack_7.0.zip |
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02:59 | <Sionide> | remember to get rid of all the others first |
02:59 | <extspotter> | thanks |
02:59 | <Sionide> | put them somewhere else |
02:59 | <extspotter> | what is in that file? |
02:59 | <Sionide> | GoneWacko, all is well.. just finishing my 3rd and final year project.. |
02:59 | <extspotter> | from coop? |
03:00 | <Sionide> | extspotter, the zip file has all the GRFs in the table in the first link.. |
03:00 | <Sionide> | a whole bunch |
03:00 | <Sionide> | all good ones |
03:00 | <Sionide> | known to work and not to conflict |
03:00 | <extspotter> | cool |
03:00 | <extspotter> | and just put the ones not in use into a different folder |
03:00 | <Sionide> | yeah out the way |
03:01 | <GoneWacko> | Awesome. I'm trying to get that same situation going for myself by telling some official-looking people in my school that one of the teachers made a boo-boo when assessing me (which is actually the case). |
03:01 | <GoneWacko> | Don't think it'll work though :p |
03:01 | <extspotter> | error reading the file |
03:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | "not to conflict" <- that comment is very misleading |
03:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | or just plainly wrong... |
03:07 | <Sionide> | is there stuff that conflicts in the coop package? |
03:07 | <Sionide> | :S |
03:11 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, like there are multiple trainsets |
03:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you can only ever use one trainset at each time |
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03:14 | <extspotter> | its ok |
03:14 | <extspotter> | I have delted all the others and redownloaded the UK set |
03:14 | <extspotter> | I am going to get the UK trams |
03:17 | <extspotter> | ok |
03:17 | <extspotter> | I dont think the trams and trains go together |
03:18 | <extspotter> | does that mean you can onle have 1 tranport set? |
03:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | one set of each kind |
03:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i.e. 1 trainset, 1 truckset, 1 tramset |
03:19 | <extspotter> | thats wierd |
03:20 | <extspotter> | because the trains and trams on mine were clashing |
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03:22 | <extspotter> | what is the best plane pack? |
03:24 | <extspotter> | AV8 or Planeset |
03:27 | * | Celestar sighs |
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03:28 | <Celestar> | Man at cafeteria wanting a sandwich. 1) Walks up to fridge, 2) opens it, 3) pulls out sandwich, 4) closes fridge. Elapsed time: 12 secnds |
03:30 | <Celestar> | Woman at cafeteria wanting a sandwich. 1) Walks up to fridge, 2) locates herself stragetically as to block the entire line, 3) opens fridge, 4) pulls out sandwich, 5) identifies sandwich, 6) gives a rating to sandwich, 7) repeats steps 4) to 6) for every sandwich in damn fridge, 8) gets sandwich with highest rating from now warm fridge, 9) closes fridge. Elapsed time: 4 minutes :< |
03:31 | <Tefad> | woot! |
03:31 | <extspotter> | lol |
03:31 | <Tefad> | also bagging lunch prevents cafeteria woes |
03:32 | <extspotter> | You arent bitter... |
03:32 | <Celestar> | I just wanted a damn coke ;) |
03:32 | <Celestar> | extspotter: nah, I'm just having a good time :P |
03:32 | <Tefad> | : D |
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05:29 | * | Celestar wonders why "svn up" on the main repo takes 3 minutes on his box to complete :S |
05:29 | <Celestar> | stupid file server being slow again |
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05:54 | <ln> | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/made_in_china.jpg |
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05:57 | -!- | ralph_ is now known as Roest |
05:58 | <Roest> | how does this registering nicks work again, havent used irc in ages |
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06:01 | <Celestar> | msg nickserv register |
06:03 | <Roest> | thanks |
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06:15 | <pavel1269> | hi |
06:19 | <extspotter> | heya |
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06:27 | <Gekz> | lol, in 1936 I have CHF 9,135,400 |
06:27 | <Gekz> | :P |
06:29 | <extspotter> | ? |
06:29 | <extspotter> | I accidentally blew up my main station in OTTD online and can't build a new one (oops!) |
06:29 | <Roest> | guess you're screwed |
06:31 | <extspotter> | I quit it |
06:32 | <extspotter> | will probably rejoin it because I was doing good |
06:32 | <extspotter> | I had a load of EMUs and DMUs |
06:34 | <Roest> | remains the question why you cant rebuild it |
06:34 | <extspotter> | because the town didnt like me |
06:34 | <extspotter> | It was poor, so not good enough to build near it |
06:34 | <extspotter> | and I was debted to the hilt and hadn't got much money anyway |
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06:41 | <@peter1138> | heh |
06:42 | <Roest> | hi |
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06:52 | <Kloopy> | I think the "build over an old station before it expires to ensure vehicles using it go back to the newly built station" algorthim needs some work. |
06:53 | <Kloopy> | I destroyed a City airport which was mid-city to build an International airport over it, but because the bigger airport didn't get build over the center tile (I presume that's what tracks it) it didn't take the old airports name and ID. |
06:53 | <Kloopy> | Would it be much work to look at the code and make a patch that says if the new station overlaps the old one in any tile, it picks up the old stations ID? |
06:55 | <Yexo> | Kloopy: it has to do with the distance between the labels IIRC |
06:55 | <Yexo> | easy to patch I think |
06:56 | <Kloopy> | Ah, ok. So just extend that "max distance to replace station" value. |
06:56 | <Kloopy> | It was slightly frustrating as I had something like 24 planes using the old airport. |
06:56 | <Kloopy> | On many routes, so it wasn't a quick update shared orders. |
06:58 | <Ammller> | Kloopy: good workaround is to place a railstation tile adjacent to the airport |
06:59 | <Ammller> | I woud never trust that remember former station |
06:59 | <Kloopy> | But to be honest, it should be seamless, the game just needs a little bit of tweaking so that my obvious airport replacement works without a workaround. |
07:00 | <Kloopy> | So that's an issue then isn't it... if the "remember former station" feature doesn't have players trust, it needs a touch of attention. |
07:00 | <Kloopy> | :) |
07:00 | <Ammller> | it works fine if you combine the airport with rail or roadstations |
07:01 | <Yexo> | I also never use it, not because I don't trust it, but because there are too many things that can go wrong |
07:01 | <Kloopy> | That's all well and good but there -are- situations where it's not perfect. |
07:01 | <Ammller> | tell me? |
07:01 | <Yexo> | Imagine being distracted and thereby being too late to get the old stationid |
07:02 | <Ammller> | I meant Kloopy :-)I |
07:02 | <Yexo> | Kloopy: in town, just use an onroad roadstop, outsite of town, you have plenty of room |
07:02 | <Yexo> | I know, I was just typing slow |
07:06 | <Kloopy> | Ammller: as I said above, my airport replacement wasn't close enough to the old one to keep the stationid despite overlapping the old station tiles. |
07:06 | <Kloopy> | But slowness can be sorted, too.. keep the stationid for much longer that it currently is and open a window asking if you want to replace the station when you next build one close to it. |
07:06 | <Kloopy> | If you say "no" the stationid is removed straight away. |
07:08 | <Kloopy> | 'Do you want to: Replace the old station "Funtingwood Airport" / Create a new station "Funtingwood Central"' |
07:08 | <Kloopy> | etc |
07:08 | <Kloopy> | Anyhow, I'm going down to the beach to eat my lunch. *waves* |
07:10 | <Roest> | now i hate you |
07:11 | <Yexo> | Kloopy: The maximum distance is set in station_cmd.cpp, line 353 |
07:11 | <Yexo> | currently the old station sign/id is only taken if it is less then 8 tiles away, diagonal tiles counting for 2 |
07:12 | <Yexo> | so 4 tiles diagonally is too far way |
07:12 | <Kloopy> | It goes by center tile/label? |
07:12 | <Yexo> | no, by tile of station sign |
07:12 | <Kloopy> | Ok... which is no wonder, it's about 8 tiles to the middle of the Intercontinental airport! :P |
07:13 | <Yexo> | the distance between the old and new station label tile |
07:13 | <Yexo> | not the middle, but the tile the label is above |
07:13 | <Yexo> | the "upper" tile |
07:14 | <Kloopy> | Right. I'll load up my save game and have a look at the labels after lunch. |
07:14 | <Kloopy> | Thanks :) |
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07:15 | <Roest> | ammler? |
07:15 | <Yexo> | changing DistanceManhattan to DistanceSquare and threshold to 64 problebly does a better job |
07:26 | <Ammller> | Roest: |
07:27 | <Gekz> | I want the passenger exchange patch updated to the current trunk :/ |
07:27 | <Gekz> | lol |
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07:27 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ |
07:27 | <Ammller> | Gekz: whats that? |
07:28 | <Ammller> | Roest: I meant the assert on RV orders |
07:29 | <Roest> | oh, thought you were talking about my patch |
07:29 | <Roest> | was a bit confusing there |
07:30 | <ln> | a day-time Bjarni! |
07:30 | <Gekz> | Ammller: the passengers know what station they want to get off at |
07:30 | <Ammller> | Roest: the current CIV is quite useless |
07:30 | <Gekz> | Ammller: and they will swap trains to do it |
07:30 | <dih> | :-) |
07:31 | <dih> | hello Bjarni :-) |
07:31 | <Roest> | yea i know, i tried it, got the assert and quit it |
07:31 | <Gekz> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33501&st=0&sk=t&sd=a |
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07:31 | <Ammller> | then say "Pass dest" instead of exchange ;-) |
07:32 | <Roest> | i guess i keep my own patch pack maintained, c&p is a must for me now |
07:32 | <Roest> | too bad frostregen doesnt want it to go in trunk |
07:34 | <Ammller> | using of c&p is more working ttd then playing |
07:34 | <SmatZ> | hello |
07:34 | <Roest> | how so? |
07:34 | <Ammller> | isn't the idea of ttd to build tracks? |
07:35 | <Roest> | for me it's to build big networks, if i can get rid of repetive tasks it helps that |
07:35 | <@peter1138> | tracks? |
07:35 | <Ammller> | peter1138: how do you call them? (Schienen) |
07:36 | <@peter1138> | there's more to ttd than building tracks ;p |
07:36 | <Ammller> | ah, ok :-) |
07:36 | <Ammller> | well, c&p does more too |
07:36 | <Roest> | besides i never remember the layouts of station exits and junctions |
07:37 | <Ammller> | because you use c&p :P |
07:37 | <Ammller> | I am lucky, I do not either, so I can try something new... everytime :-) |
07:38 | <Roest> | paxdest would be nice to have, it really added some depth but as long as it doesnt work in multiplayer its no option |
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07:40 | <@peter1138> | hm |
07:40 | <@peter1138> | someone will do it right eventually |
07:41 | <Forked> | we should put an an endless amount of coding monkeys on it.. and hope they dont code shakespear (mistypes bound to be included here) |
07:42 | <Ammller> | peter1138: Its quite hard to patch svn with your engine patch |
07:42 | <Ammller> | copy of engine_type.h |
07:42 | <@peter1138> | do the svn cp first |
07:43 | <planetmaker> | noob question: what's the C&P patch about? |
07:43 | <Ammller> | whats the idea behind that? |
07:43 | <@peter1138> | planetmaker: it's about copying and pasting map areas |
07:43 | <@peter1138> | Ammller: hmm? |
07:43 | <planetmaker> | aye, thx. |
07:44 | <Roest> | planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=25037 |
07:44 | <Ammller> | why don't you not just patch engine_type.h? |
07:45 | <Ammller> | planetmaker: the most famous and oldest "not going to trunk" patch :-) |
07:47 | <planetmaker> | oh, is it that kind? :) Would be handy at times... though I'm not sure how much I'd use it. |
07:47 | <Roest> | it's really hard to see why |
07:47 | <@peter1138> | Ammller: because pools go in _base |
07:49 | <Ammller> | planetmaker: read the blue text in the 1. post :-) |
07:50 | <planetmaker> | :D. Spoiling building style? |
07:51 | <planetmaker> | Certainly it might easily violate the "low terraform" rules... |
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07:53 | <planetmaker> | what's the actual problem with this patch, btw? Not network compatible? Or...? |
07:54 | <@Rubidium> | planetmaker: talking about copy/paste? |
07:54 | <Roest> | it certainly is network compatible, i use it on my own server |
07:54 | <planetmaker> | Rubidium: yes. |
07:54 | <Gekz> | its sad when you use TTD to test if someone is stupid or not |
07:54 | <Gekz> | lol |
07:55 | <@Rubidium> | 1) contains bugs, 2) did not look maintainable when I last looked at it |
07:55 | <planetmaker> | ^^ fair enough for a non inclusion, I guess :) |
07:55 | <Ammller> | the problem of the patch is, that it is client side only |
07:56 | <Roest> | so the functionality wouldn't keep it from going into trunk? |
07:56 | <planetmaker> | Why is that a problem? |
07:56 | <Ammller> | so you can patch your client with it and join a server without that patch |
07:56 | <Ammller> | after a talk with him about that, he added the blue text to his post |
07:57 | <Roest> | i don't see that as a problem, but then i never play ottd competitive |
07:57 | <Gekz> | oh noes ottd hax |
07:57 | <Gekz> | lol |
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08:06 | <nicfer> | too much people say 'go play simcity if you want to control a city' and they didn't take care that simcity is propietary |
08:06 | <nicfer> | and simcity is most boring that TT |
08:06 | <Gekz> | Lincity |
08:06 | <Gekz> | go hug it |
08:06 | <nicfer> | too hard |
08:06 | <Gekz> | lol. |
08:06 | <Gekz> | stop complaining. |
08:07 | <@Bjarni> | <ln> a day-time Bjarni! <-- I'm usually busy all day and that goes for right now as well |
08:08 | <nicfer> | what other bad thing about simcity 3000 is that citizens complain about everything |
08:09 | <nicfer> | the citizens want you to enable a law and after others tell you to remove it |
08:10 | <Gekz> | SimCity 3000 was crap. |
08:10 | <nicfer> | and simcity isn't multiplayer |
08:11 | <Gekz> | yes it is |
08:11 | <Gekz> | >_> |
08:11 | <Gekz> | Simcity 2000 Network Edition |
08:11 | <Gekz> | lol |
08:11 | <nicfer> | I don't know it |
08:11 | <Gekz> | now you do |
08:12 | <nicfer> | how is the multiplayer gameplay? |
08:12 | <nicfer> | multiple players work on the same city? |
08:13 | <Gekz> | no |
08:13 | <Gekz> | well |
08:13 | <Gekz> | I cant remember |
08:13 | <nicfer> | each player controls it's own city in a neightbour (don't know exact world)? |
08:13 | <Gekz> | it was many years ago lol |
08:13 | <Gekz> | no it was the same map |
08:13 | <Gekz> | you had to purchase land to build on |
08:13 | <@Bjarni> | network sim city? |
08:14 | <@Bjarni> | can you export garbage to each other? |
08:14 | <@Bjarni> | and send all the garbage from a lot of towns to the same one |
08:14 | <Gekz> | no idea |
08:14 | <Gekz> | lol |
08:14 | <@Bjarni> | would be interesting |
08:14 | <@Bjarni> | sending all the garbage to the same location and producing all the power there as well |
08:14 | <Roest> | what's it about your interest in garbage |
08:14 | <@Bjarni> | with no people to complain |
08:15 | <@Bjarni> | Roest: I don't want it here... that's basically it :P |
08:15 | <Roest> | you're from naples by chance? |
08:15 | <@Bjarni> | no |
08:16 | <@Bjarni> | but they don't want garbage either |
08:16 | <@Bjarni> | we should just stop producing garbage (or at least limit the amount of garbage) |
08:16 | <Gekz> | lol |
08:16 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: fix my patches! |
08:17 | <@Bjarni> | think about when you buy something... think about how much garbage the factories put around the actual thing when they ship it |
08:17 | <Roest> | fixing patches sucks |
08:17 | <@Bjarni> | when I purchased an USB hub then the box was like 10 times the size of the hub |
08:17 | <@Bjarni> | and it contained mainly air |
08:18 | <Roest> | lol should've seen the box my 8800gtx came in |
08:18 | <Roest> | that thing was a friggin suitcase |
08:19 | <@Bjarni> | Steve Jobs said at one time that they had engineers working on the packing for the iPods for environmental reasons. They cut the size in half while still containing the same stuff |
08:19 | <@Bjarni> | this means less fuel is used to transport them to the shops as they can have more in each vehicle |
08:19 | <Roest> | so why is it more fun to fiddle with the ottd code instead on working on the program for my thesis |
08:19 | <@Bjarni> | personally I think it's a nice way of saying "we figured out how to reduced shipping costs" |
08:20 | <@Bjarni> | <Roest> so why is it more fun to fiddle with the ottd code instead on working on the program for my thesis <-- for the same reason as it's more fun to write this than to program the stuff that is due for Monday :P |
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08:22 | <Roest> | guess i really need to work now |
08:22 | <@Bjarni> | then I will not ask you about your thesis ;) |
08:23 | <@Bjarni> | <Gekz> Bjarni: fix my patches! <-- err... patches? |
08:23 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: the patches I want to compile with trunk :P |
08:23 | <Roest> | lol it's still in the beginning |
08:23 | <@Bjarni> | and it will stay there if you stay in here |
08:25 | <Roest> | right now i have to write a viewer for MRI data, sounds simple but is so totally boring to setup all the widgets and stuff |
08:25 | <@Bjarni> | hehe |
08:26 | <@Bjarni> | reminds me of when I should code my first GUI in C++ (which happened to use SDL) |
08:26 | <teeg> | Bjarni: Just to be sure I'm not stepping on any toes, the reason I picked that code as an example was that it was just the first quick "good" example I could find, and I'm well aware that this was written back in the C days. I wasn't quite aware of how long ago the migration to C++ was, but that's not a big issue. |
08:26 | -!- | Denyerec [~Never@cpc1-shep4-0-0-cust61.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd |
08:26 | <Denyerec> | Hey chaps! |
08:26 | <Roest> | sup |
08:27 | <Denyerec> | Got me a problem with train orders.... :) |
08:27 | <Roest> | those bastards trains wont follow your orders? |
08:27 | <@Bjarni> | we were a group of two people and the other one coded the GUI while I coded the FPGA and mcu. The hardware told the right stuff at the right time but we ended up not showing everything the hardware told about when we reached the deadline |
08:27 | <Denyerec> | Got a station by a Coal mine and an Oil Refinery, linked on a loop to an Oilfield and a Powerstation. |
08:27 | <teeg> | Denyerec: shoot one conductor and keep the other's family hostage. that'll get them to follow orders! |
08:27 | <Denyerec> | I had one train, with 4 coal cars and 4 oil cars. I wanted a coal dropoff and an oil pickup, but the transfer order kept picking up the dropped off coal! |
08:28 | <Denyerec> | Damn... Don't think I've found the button for that :S |
08:28 | <@Bjarni> | teeg = tgr ? |
08:28 | <Denyerec> | (Open TTD latest stable build) |
08:28 | <teeg> | Bjarni: yeah. tgr is apparently reserved on this network already |
08:29 | <@Bjarni> | oh I heard that one before :/ |
08:29 | <planetmaker> | Denyerec: use a normal order without load, unload or anything... |
08:29 | <Denyerec> | just a go-to ? |
08:29 | <Roest> | denyerec: best way is to make a post and attach the savegame or at least screenshots |
08:29 | <planetmaker> | Denyerec: yes. |
08:29 | <planetmaker> | It won't use full load then, but it will deliver and pickup. |
08:29 | <@Bjarni> | well the main thing is that OO should be used when it makes sense. Rewriting working code for the cause of rewriting makes little sense |
08:29 | <@peter1138> | yeah, don't use transfer |
08:30 | <Denyerec> | Interesting. However then the train sprints off without fully loading.... guess I can't have my cake and eat it ;) |
08:30 | <planetmaker> | ^^ :) Maybe it changed in the very latest nightly. Haven't tested it... |
08:31 | <planetmaker> | There were some very interesting changes on the load orders, though |
08:31 | <teeg> | Bjarni: I do see a lot of places where it would make sense though, and what you said at the end is precicely one of those cases. Or, not OO, but more how everything is structured now could be improved on in my opionion. |
08:31 | <Yexo> | Denyerec: start using a nighty and use the "Full load any" order |
08:31 | <Yexo> | in 0.6.0 full load should work though |
08:31 | <@Bjarni> | teeg: I thought like you did at one time. OO can solve a lot of problems but I quickly realised that OO is not a solution on it's own and it's not the best solution for everything |
08:31 | <planetmaker> | Yexo: but not, if you want to drop anything at the same station |
08:32 | <teeg> | Bjarni: it can be taken too far, I agree. I've seen that happen with, say, Mail::Box for perl, where everything IS an boject |
08:32 | <Yexo> | planetmaker: are you sure? I thought full load did unload first, but I'm not sure anymore |
08:32 | <teeg> | s/boject/object/ |
08:32 | <planetmaker> | Yexo: I always thought it only loads. But to be sure I'd have to test, too |
08:33 | <Denyerec> | Transfer and Full Load seems to load up what it's unloading... |
08:33 | <Yexo> | going to test it right now :) |
08:33 | <Denyerec> | Unless I'm doing something wrong. |
08:33 | <@peter1138> | full load shouldn't stop it unloading, iirc |
08:33 | <Yexo> | Denyerec: I ment full load without transfer |
08:33 | <@Bjarni> | teeg: What I meant by the last two lines is: don't change for the purpose of changing something. Change something when you add new stuff and you can benefit from using objects and we already do that |
08:33 | <Denyerec> | ah |
08:34 | <planetmaker> | I stand corrected, peter will know :) |
08:34 | <Yexo> | transfer means unload at station but don't deliver to industry, so the cargo will stay at the station for another (or the same) vehicle to pick up |
08:34 | <teeg> | Bjarni: a bit, yes, but there are still plenty of very global functions which I believe should be done in a different way. |
08:34 | <Celestar> | er ... it doesn't build :o |
08:34 | <planetmaker> | o_O |
08:35 | <@Bjarni> | Celestar: the trunk? |
08:36 | <Celestar> | yah .. /me goes finding out |
08:37 | <@Bjarni> | teeg: then give a good example of what you disagree with and how you would benefit from changing it (benefit as it will make your new feature much easier to write or similar) |
08:37 | <Yexo> | full load without transfer works, at least in the latest trunk |
08:37 | <planetmaker> | k |
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08:39 | <Celestar> | make[1]: chdir: No such file or directory |
08:40 | <Celestar> | \o/ |
08:40 | <Gekz> | [SRC] Linking openttd.exe |
08:40 | <Gekz> | /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/4.2.1-sjlj/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmingwex.a(mingw_snprintf.o):(.text+0x1d00): multiple definition of `_snprintf' |
08:40 | <Gekz> | string.o:string.cpp:(.text+0x4a0): first defined here |
08:40 | <Gekz> | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
08:40 | <Gekz> | ... that was more lines than it should have been, sorry >_> |
08:41 | <Roest> | erm trunk compiles |
08:41 | <@peter1138> | Celestar: run a ./configure? |
08:41 | <Celestar> | peter1138: did so |
08:42 | <@peter1138> | hmm, path with spaces? |
08:42 | <teeg> | Bjarni: it'd be difficult to give a good example offhand, but the example code I gave in that posting does show a bit of what I mean. It would just be a bit simpler to program all the surrounding code. I think the station could for example contain a CargoType object, and the train or whatever could contain a cargotype object (or some sort of cargo container), and you'd compare those. I haven't thought this through 100% yet, but that's the kind of chang |
08:43 | <Celestar> | no |
08:43 | <teeg> | Bjarni: but to be honest, I'm getting the feeling that this would be a bit too much to get into trunk to start with, since it'd be a major overhaul for potentially little return to start with, so I do understand if you're all moderately negative to the idea. |
08:45 | * | Rubidium ponders why suddenly "everyone" starts lecturing us about not using OO when it could be used and such |
08:45 | <Celestar> | :[/nfs/home/fischer/coding/openttd/trunk]> pwd |
08:46 | <Celestar> | /fischer/coding/openttd/trunk |
08:46 | <Celestar> | what the fuck? |
08:46 | <SmatZ> | Celestar: VMS? |
08:47 | <planetmaker> | trunk compiles here w/o complaining... |
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08:48 | <@Bjarni> | teeg: mainly the negative feedback is due to time/benefit factor from such a change. It's also likely that it would reduce speed and add bugs |
08:49 | <nicfer> | how comes that the executable installer is smaller than the zip equivalent |
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08:49 | <@Bjarni> | teeg: but when it appears to be a good idea we do add member functions and stuff like that and if you feel like we could benefit from it we would hear you out before you actually start |
08:49 | <Celestar> | SmatZ: NFS4 |
08:49 | <Gekz> | trunk compiles for linux here |
08:49 | <teeg> | Bjarni: time/benefit I can agree with, speed I can also agree with to a certain extent, but my initial impression of the code itself was that it was now internally so complex that it might cause a few bugs on its own merit. |
08:49 | <Gekz> | but not mingw |
08:49 | <Celestar> | Gekz: after rechanging the dir it worked |
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08:50 | <teeg> | Bjarni: yeah, I'm not writing any code yet, I'm just trying to test the water before I jump in |
08:50 | <Gekz> | Celestar: rechanging? |
08:50 | <Celestar> | NFS4 fuckup |
08:50 | <Gekz> | oh |
08:50 | <Gekz> | lol |
08:50 | <Yexo> | Gekz: about mingw, have you tried ./configure --without-libfreetype --without-libpng? |
08:50 | <Yexo> | that works for me on cygwin |
08:51 | <planetmaker> | lalala... network fun... |
08:51 | <Gekz> | Yexo: yes |
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08:51 | <Gekz> | Yexo: both |
08:51 | <Gekz> | Yexo: always both lol |
08:52 | <Roest> | so is the fact that my server doesnt appear on the master list still a bug or am i doing something wrong? |
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08:53 | <Roest> | advertising is on |
08:53 | <Gekz> | lol I used to run a server called Sexual Cookies |
08:53 | <Gekz> | I got random pings every 10 seconds |
08:53 | <Gekz> | >_> |
08:53 | <SmatZ> | :-) |
08:53 | <Gekz> | it was you wasn it SmatZ |
08:53 | <SmatZ> | I guess so |
08:54 | <Gekz> | damn you |
08:54 | <Gekz> | beady eyes |
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08:56 | <Roest> | also is there a server switch to turn off the dbg messages for queries and newgrf queries or do i have to turn it off at compile |
08:57 | <Celestar> | Roest: -d |
08:57 | <@peter1138> | debug_level net=1, heh |
08:57 | <@peter1138> | or something |
08:57 | <Ammller> | 0 |
08:58 | <Ammller> | but isn't default debug off already? |
08:58 | <@peter1138> | not for servers |
08:59 | <teeg> | Bjarni: but if I made a mini-fork (say OpenTTD++), did my thing and actually finished it (unlike all the other patch programmers who've vanished, which is stil to be proven...), would you take a look at it? You don't have to worry overly much for the next few months (it's almost summer, so it's time for me to get my trackdays on), but some day, if I were successfull. |
08:59 | <teeg> | that way I wouldn't be lecturing (I'm not lecturing, I'm inquiring so I can see what the general consensus is), and I'd have something concrete to present to everyone. |
09:01 | <Celestar> | z |
09:01 | <Gekz> | z |
09:01 | <Celestar> | methinks there's nothing wrong with making forks |
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09:02 | * | Gekz fears the OpenTTDCity fork |
09:02 | <teeg> | OpenTTD Societies |
09:02 | <Gekz> | "Build a city, then transport things to it." |
09:02 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:02 | <Ammller> | teeg: there is a eyecandy patch |
09:03 | <Ammller> | maybe you could start with that? |
09:03 | <Gekz> | 32bbp? |
09:03 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:03 | <SmatZ> | yes, I was thinking about a better SimCity2000 :) |
09:03 | <Ammller> | I guess, its from Frostregen, too. |
09:04 | <teeg> | eyecandy patch? |
09:04 | <Ammller> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29286 |
09:04 | <Roest> | mind to use simcity4 instead, there's so much user created content for that |
09:05 | <Gekz> | teeg: are you makign a SimCity-style OpenTTD fork? |
09:05 | <Gekz> | or planning to |
09:06 | <Forked> | fork this fork that :( |
09:06 | <Gekz> | Silence fool! |
09:06 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:06 | <SmatZ> | Roest: I like SC2000 the most |
09:06 | <teeg> | Gekz: nono, no such thing. I'm just trying to see if there aren't ways to improve the internal structure of openttd so the code itself would be easier. no openttd city, openttd societies or anything like that :P |
09:07 | <Gekz> | teeg: oh goody |
09:07 | <Gekz> | you just want to audit |
09:07 | <Gekz> | :P |
09:07 | <Roest> | it was very good i agree, but i got into sc4 then, it's pretty good with the rushhour expansion |
09:07 | <Roest> | i dowloaded over 1GB of stuff for it lol |
09:08 | <teeg> | Gekz: I was thinking more along the route of revamping than just mere auditing |
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09:09 | <Gekz> | , |
09:10 | <teeg> | Personally, whenever I play openttd, I never go into micromanagement of cities, mostly since passengers and mail etc just isn't interesting to micromanage because they don't do destinations yet (except for paxdest, which appears to be getting overly complicated and resource hungry for its own good). It's just a virtual railroad which I try to tweak into performing better and better all the time. so no sim city delusions of grandeour here :P |
09:10 | <@Belugas> | [23:41] <DaleStan> Belugas: Yes, 15 bits. "D0XX" often means "D000..D3FF". <- thanks DaleStan. but... " |
09:11 | <@Belugas> | "often" ... dos it mean ALWAYS ? |
09:11 | <Gekz> | teeg: fix paxdest |
09:11 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:11 | <Roest> | rewrite paxdest |
09:11 | <teeg> | D0xx means D000..D3FF? wouldn't that mean Dxxx? |
09:11 | <Roest> | make it OO too |
09:11 | <Gekz> | OO! |
09:11 | <Gekz> | why isnt OO used anyway |
09:12 | <SmatZ> | fo OO |
09:13 | <SmatZ> | OTTD was coded in C |
09:13 | <Kloopy> | Is the current incarnation of paxdest stopped development then? |
09:13 | <Roest> | question: when was the last time you've seen quinf on the forum |
09:13 | <teeg> | wasn't ottd coded in asm, then ported to C, and now in the process of being migrated to C++ |
09:14 | <Roest> | it's like people still ask gonozal for an update |
09:15 | <@Belugas> | indeed teeg |
09:15 | <@Belugas> | but the migration is not a "DO IT NOW" stuff |
09:15 | <@Belugas> | when required |
09:15 | <teeg> | That'll take years :P |
09:15 | <@Belugas> | and not because-OO-rocks-and-nothing-should-be-done-otherwise |
09:16 | <SmatZ> | teeg: why should it be made "now"? |
09:16 | <@Belugas> | who cares how lng it's gonna take?? |
09:16 | <@Belugas> | does the game still run? Does it still rocks? |
09:16 | <SmatZ> | YEAH! |
09:16 | <@Belugas> | that's the only importasnt thing |
09:16 | <SmatZ> | it rocks! :) |
09:16 | <Roest> | smatz is biased |
09:17 | <SmatZ> | sure I am |
09:17 | <SmatZ> | but not more than you are |
09:17 | <SmatZ> | I am sceptical |
09:18 | <teeg> | Yes, it does rock from a user perspective, but it could be better from a programmer perspective. And I am willing to at least give it a go with regards to trying to do it "now", just to see how much work it is, how much extra resources it'll use, and how much it'll be liked if I do finish it. |
09:18 | <Roest> | it's a lot of work btw |
09:18 | <teeg> | Unless of course that isn't something any of the developers is interested in seeing done. |
09:18 | <teeg> | Oh, I know it'll be a lot of work |
09:18 | <teeg> | I don't know how much, but I know it's a lot of work. |
09:19 | <Gekz> | I assume teeg doesnt have a lot of a life :P |
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09:19 | <teeg> | Make no mistake, I'm not under the impression it'll be a walk in the park :P |
09:19 | <teeg> | Gekz: as a matter of fact, you're right. :P |
09:19 | * | Gekz has a lot of life |
09:19 | <Roest> | life is overrated anyway |
09:19 | <@Belugas> | teeg, if it serves a REAL purpose other than just looking good, it's a waiste of time |
09:20 | <@Belugas> | changing for changing is futile |
09:20 | <teeg> | So basically, what you're saying is that you're not fond of the idea. |
09:20 | <@Belugas> | you have to have a benefit out of it |
09:20 | <@Belugas> | no |
09:21 | <@Belugas> | that's not what i say |
09:21 | <@Belugas> | i say that changing for changing is futile |
09:21 | <teeg> | But you're not over the moon about it either :P |
09:21 | <@Belugas> | i say that if your idea brings a bonus, it is worht checking |
09:22 | <teeg> | I agree. I'm not thinking about putting in all of this effort just for change's sake. I'm too lazy for that. I'm thinking of putting in this effort because I think it WILL bring a bonus. I'm thinking it'll be a programmer time bonus first and foremost, possibly with a bit of a performance impact, but I won't know exactly how much until it's implemented. |
09:24 | <@Belugas> | it sounds as if you do not have a plan, nor that you know what awaits you... |
09:26 | <@Belugas> | in fact, you kinda remind me of that tgr guy on the forums |
09:26 | <teeg> | Um. I am that guy. |
09:26 | <@Belugas> | though so... |
09:26 | <@Belugas> | welcome to IRC |
09:26 | <@Belugas> | by the way |
09:26 | <teeg> | heh. thanks. 'tis a bit chilly. :P |
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09:27 | <Kloopy> | haha. "You remind me of that really annoying guy who knows nothing on the forums.... *tumbleweed*" |
09:27 | <Roest> | lol |
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09:30 | <Gekz> | The silence is awesome |
09:30 | <Gekz> | I can taste the awkwardness. |
09:32 | <@Belugas> | yeeg: well... it is a bit expected, don't you think? you come on the forums, claiming high and loud that our code is rubbish and that you're going to change it all in OO, just becuase it is the best thing to do, without even knowing all the ins and outs of it. I mean... it is a bit irritating, don't you think? |
09:32 | <@Belugas> | There are initiatives that are welcome, becuase they serve a purpose |
09:34 | <teeg> | Belugas: I'm not claiming it's rubbish. And after seeing how many of the way the other small patches were welcome, I'm not surprised. Which is why I'm that much more determined to see if it can't be done even better than they are now. I am only trying to _help_ in my own way here. |
09:34 | <@Belugas> | no clear purpose nor gain (apart beauty of code) has been etablished by you. Nor did you produced anything yet that would confirm that you are indeed a good coder who would be able to bring more to the game |
09:35 | <@Belugas> | There are lots of reasons (and mostly each patch is a case for itself) why a patch can be accepted or refused. |
09:35 | <Roest> | i'm a terrible coder, my code is rubbish and my dragndrop land purchase was rejected :( |
09:35 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:36 | <@Belugas> | I know you want to help, teeg. But it doe snot mean we should embrace arms wide open anything anyhow. |
09:36 | -!- | HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.207.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
09:36 | <Gekz> | if passenger routes was implemented into trunk it would make building passenger lines much more exciting |
09:36 | <@Belugas> | Roest, it's not the code, it's the feature ;) |
09:36 | <@Belugas> | anywa... enough talking, i' |
09:36 | <@Belugas> | ve got |
09:36 | <@Belugas> | tio work@work |
09:36 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:37 | <Gekz> | type better |
09:37 | <Roest> | i'm still not really satisfied by the reasoning why the feature is unwanted, even if we turn it off in multiplayer |
09:38 | <Gekz> | why do you need to purchase land in vast amounts? |
09:39 | <Roest> | i tend to develop towns and block the land where i want stations and airports |
09:39 | <teeg> | Belugas: not saying that either. I'm all for scepticism, and I'm not expecting any positive feedback until I do actually have something to show for it. But in the meantime I'll stfu since this apparently isn't going to be a very productive thing to discuss until I've done it. |
09:39 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:40 | * | peter1138 is all for teeg doing whatever he wants |
09:40 | <Roest> | mostly i reserve the 9x11 tiles for the largest airport |
09:40 | <@peter1138> | none of us is a c++ developer |
09:40 | <@peter1138> | c++ programmer, i should say |
09:41 | <Gekz> | c++ hippie* |
09:42 | <Roest> | i'm a z80 assembler hippie |
09:43 | <larsemil> | qbasic? :D |
09:43 | <Gekz> | I use z/OS! |
09:46 | <Celestar> | peter1138: I'm begging to get one due to a work project \o/ |
09:46 | <Celestar> | but slowly |
09:47 | -!- | Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.157.233.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
09:49 | <@Bjarni> | teeg: making a fork is likely not the way to go. It would be better to have a dialogue about what you want to do (like writing a little about what to change and why) and then if we like the idea we can figure out a plan on how to actually do it |
09:50 | <@peter1138> | begging? |
09:51 | <Kloopy> | Roest: Why was drag and drop purchasing declined? |
09:51 | <Roest> | since the possible harm you can do in multiplay i guess |
09:51 | <Roest> | buying large areas around industries and block other players |
09:51 | <@Bjarni> | and by actually doing it I mean like figuring out what steps to take and do it step by step rather than making a huge patch because huge patches are known to fail for countless reasons. Not even developers with commit access likes to make too big patches for a single commit because they tend to conflict with the trunk and so on |
09:51 | <Kloopy> | But you can do harm in do many other ways, like building rail to block competitors... The idea is that by doign that sort of thing you get kicked/banned from the server. |
09:52 | <Roest> | damn bjarni i already had a name for the fork, like ooottd or o3ttd |
09:52 | <Kloopy> | ooottd lol |
09:53 | <teeg> | Bjarni: Agreed. and too big a patch would piss off other patch programmers as well. In short (as I said earlier), I'll shut up and create something I can present, instead of just a lot of hot air about nothing. |
09:54 | <Noldo> | teeg: If you like global varible hunting I can join you |
09:54 | <@Bjarni> | Roest: while OOOTTD would be an interesting name I care more for the contents and if I think that it wouldn't work well for some reason I feel like I should at least tell how I feel about it |
09:54 | <@Bjarni> | but an interesting name indeed |
09:55 | <teeg> | "ooooh ttd!" |
09:55 | <Tefad> | is there yet a complete redistributable graphics pack? |
09:55 | <@peter1138> | no |
09:56 | <Gekz> | is there an incomplete one? |
09:56 | <Tefad> | is there an effort to have one? |
09:56 | <Roest> | so ttd being on several abandon ware sites is illegal? |
09:56 | <Tefad> | if so, would it ever be included with ottd |
09:56 | <Tefad> | Roest: to use ottd i think you need to have a license for ttd |
09:56 | <Tefad> | due to graphics |
09:57 | <@peter1138> | Roest: of course it is |
09:57 | <hylje> | one could always run a parallel branch of ottd which boasts redistributable gfx and sound |
09:57 | <Tefad> | abandonware in general is illegal |
09:57 | <Gekz> | lol |
09:57 | <Gekz> | replace the sounds with your voice |
09:57 | <Gekz> | "GENERIC SMOKE SOUNDS GO HERE!" |
09:57 | <Tefad> | unless copyright holder gives free license to works. |
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09:57 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
09:58 | <@Bjarni> | teeg, Noldo: about global variable hunting. You should be aware that some of them are global to be compatible with load/save so a plan for making one non-global would likely benefit from starting to figure out how it would still work with load/save |
09:58 | <Tefad> | have we even figured out who owns ttd rights yet? |
09:58 | <hylje> | that parallel branch would be fairly simple to maintain, even, just pull the changesets once in a while from hg/git |
09:58 | -!- | Mwa [~lexi@70.188-233-85.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #openttd |
09:58 | <Gekz> | svn! |
09:59 | <teeg> | Bjarni: I was thinking about that on my way to work today actually, that's a good point I hadn't thought of. |
10:00 | <@Bjarni> | the same goes for stuff in openttd.cfg |
10:01 | <@Bjarni> | just killing the global var and add accessors when it's used isn't that tricky. It's when it comes to config file and savegames it becomes tricky |
10:01 | <Mwa> | Is it just me, or do the last few mac os x nightly builds not work? |
10:01 | <@Bjarni> | if simple accessors would have done the trick then we would likely have dealt with this ourselves ages ago |
10:01 | <hylje> | but you haven't, because you're incompetent |
10:02 | <hylje> | *ducks* |
10:02 | <Noldo> | there might be ones similar to expence type thing |
10:02 | <Mwa> | 16/04/2008 14:56:21 com.apple.launchd[104] ([0x0-0x6a06a].org.openttd.openttd[696]) posix_spawnp("/Users/lexi/Downloads/OTTD-macosx-intel-nightly-r12705/OpenTTD.app/Contents/MacOS/openttd", ...): Bad executable (or shared library) |
10:02 | <teeg> | My initial idea for solving that would be to make the objects themselves serialize themselves or something. I'm not sure yet, but I'll make damned sure I take that into account, because I assume it won't just be with config files and savegames, but also multiplayer |
10:03 | <hylje> | serialization! |
10:03 | <@Bjarni> | Mwa: there is a known issue with Intel 10.5 and the nightly build. Try the PPC built instead and pray that rosetta will emulate it correctly. Alternatively you can compile yourself |
10:04 | <Roest> | sterilization |
10:04 | <@Bjarni> | as luck would happen somebody updated the wiki page an hour ago on how to compile on mac when using 10.5 |
10:04 | <Mwa> | \o/ |
10:05 | <@Bjarni> | http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Compiling_on_Mac |
10:05 | <Mwa> | Wouldn't it be a case of just downloading the svn and typing ./configure;make? |
10:05 | <@Bjarni> | Mwa: be aware that Rosetta isn't known to deal well with OpenTTD and even if it acts nicely it will still be slower |
10:05 | <teeg> | s/;/&&/; |
10:05 | <hylje> | you need the dependencies |
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10:06 | <hylje> | for instance, a compiler |
10:06 | <Mwa> | Of course I have one of those |
10:06 | <Mwa> | :p |
10:06 | <@Bjarni> | Mwa: more or less yes. Somebody claimed that Apple included svn in 10.5 by default so you don't need to think about dependencies. I can't verify that though |
10:06 | <teeg> | Mwa: if you do ./configure;make it'll run make irregardless of whether or not configure succeeded. :P |
10:06 | <hylje> | development headers for the libs ottd happens to use as well |
10:07 | <@Bjarni> | <hylje> for instance, a compiler <-- according to the wiki page you just install Xcode and then dependancies like "a compiler" will be installed |
10:07 | <@Bjarni> | and I can verify that one (otherwise I wouldn't have written it like that) |
10:07 | <Mwa> | Oh that reminds me, it was bugging me about some updates yesterday |
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10:08 | <@Bjarni> | I don't know anything about 10.5 or Xcode 3 updates as I'm still in the 10.4 era |
10:08 | <hylje> | slowpoke |
10:09 | <@peter1138> | bjarni's in the dark ages |
10:09 | <@Bjarni> | basically I use 3rd party software that claims not to work with 10.5. They are working on an update though |
10:09 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: what softs? |
10:10 | <Roest> | ewww mac |
10:10 | <@Bjarni> | but... I still don't see why I should update. I have yet to see an improvement (for me) that will make it worth the money |
10:10 | <hylje> | Roest: take your arrogance elsewhere |
10:10 | <@Bjarni> | Gekz: it has to do with the TV tuner |
10:10 | <Roest> | lol |
10:10 | <@Bjarni> | Roest: as well as your ignorance |
10:10 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:10 | <Gekz> | I hate Mac OS X |
10:11 | <Gekz> | I can't stand it |
10:11 | <Gekz> | the whole .app thing drives me mad |
10:11 | <Mwa> | Bjarni, it's damn good. Quicklook is wonderful for one |
10:11 | -!- | Gekz was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [I will help you to follow the requests we just wrote] |
10:11 | <@Bjarni> | :P |
10:11 | -!- | Gekz [~brendan@121.218.75.100] has joined #openttd |
10:11 | <Gekz> | excuse me? |
10:11 | <Roest> | whats left if you get rid of ignorance and arrogance |
10:12 | <hylje> | knowledge |
10:12 | <hylje> | wisdom |
10:12 | <@Bjarni> | Gekz: take your arrogance and ignorance elsewhere ;) |
10:12 | <Roest> | need a word with *ance please |
10:12 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: its not ignorance or arrogance |
10:12 | <Gekz> | I've been using Mac OS X for the past 10 weeks |
10:12 | <Gekz> | and I cant stand it |
10:12 | <Gekz> | I'm sorry that you cant handle personal opinion |
10:12 | <@Bjarni> | oh |
10:12 | <@Bjarni> | I thought you were just acting silly |
10:13 | <Gekz> | nope. |
10:13 | <@Bjarni> | usually when people gives an outburst like that then they never used mac at all |
10:13 | <hylje> | if you were a reasonable person, you'd have based your opinion on something other than "I CANT FUCKING STAND IT" |
10:13 | <Gekz> | I dont have opinions based on nothing. |
10:13 | <Gekz> | I like to test things before making outrageous comments |
10:13 | <Mwa> | .app bundles are cool. What's wrong with 'em? What I dislike is the way that all an application's data is flicked about throught the whole ~/Library/ folder instead of being in hidden folders in the home |
10:13 | <Gekz> | BUT, I do like macfuse :P |
10:13 | <Gekz> | I dont like how the system is hidden in Finder |
10:13 | <Gekz> | hidden from* Finder |
10:14 | <Mwa> | Who uses the finder? |
10:14 | <@Bjarni> | users who knows too little to mess with the system |
10:14 | <Gekz> | yes, and I have to help them constantly |
10:14 | <Gekz> | >_> |
10:14 | <@Bjarni> | if you know enough to mess with the system then you don't mind the terminal |
10:14 | <@Bjarni> | right? |
10:14 | <Gekz> | I had to learn to use Mac OS X to help my software design teacher |
10:14 | <Gekz> | ... |
10:14 | <Gekz> | I used the terminal the whole time |
10:14 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:14 | <@Bjarni> | I mean you have to use sudo anyway |
10:15 | <Gekz> | but I dont understand WHY finder hides the system |
10:15 | <Gekz> | it boggles me |
10:15 | <Gekz> | theres probably an option to unhide that |
10:15 | <Mwa> | Because the stuff it hides, no normal user ever needs to see |
10:15 | <Gekz> | but never looked |
10:15 | <@Bjarni> | I think it's to protect users from breaking their system |
10:15 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12734 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp viewport_func.h): -Codechange: use a vector instead of allocating memory in a big byte array for StringSpriteToDraw. |
10:15 | <Mwa> | What's a normal person to do with /bin for instance? |
10:15 | -!- | Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-39-201.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] |
10:15 | <Mwa> | "A bin? I'll chuck my unwanted files in it!" |
10:16 | <@Bjarni> | <Mwa> .app bundles are cool. What's wrong with 'em? <-- we didn't get an answer on that one |
10:16 | <@Bjarni> | Mwa: :D |
10:16 | <Mwa> | or indeed "A bin? That means I can delete it to save space!" |
10:16 | <Gekz> | Mwa: why would the user have write access |
10:16 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:17 | <Mwa> | Who knows |
10:17 | <@Bjarni> | reminds me of a guy I once knew. He found a file inside the windows dir (in win95) and he didn't know what it was supposed to do so he decided that it wasn't important and deleted it to gain free space |
10:17 | <@Bjarni> | then he couldn't boot anymore |
10:17 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:17 | <Mwa> | In any case, there is a directive that enables you to see all the hidden files |
10:17 | <Gekz> | boot.ini |
10:17 | <Gekz> | ? |
10:17 | <teeg> | boot.ini isn't in the windows dir |
10:17 | <teeg> | it's on C:\ |
10:18 | <Gekz> | whatever |
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10:18 | <Noldo> | there is propably more than one files that could have been it |
10:18 | <Gekz> | I dont use win95 |
10:18 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12735 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: use a vector instead of allocating memory in a byte array for TileSpriteToDraw. |
10:18 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: is it possible to execute an .app from the console? |
10:18 | <teeg> | Gekz: it's valid for all versions of windows from 95 and up I believe. it's on my xp system anyways. but this is just being pedantic, sorry. :P |
10:18 | <Gekz> | teeg: I dont use Windows. |
10:18 | <Gekz> | at all. |
10:19 | <teeg> | old mac or *nix then? |
10:19 | <Gekz> | Debian |
10:19 | <teeg> | excellent. |
10:19 | <Mwa> | defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles -bool TRUE |
10:19 | <@Bjarni> | <Gekz> Bjarni: is it possible to execute an .app from the console? <-- yes... naturally it is |
10:19 | <Mwa> | Gekz, thar |
10:19 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: how |
10:19 | <Mwa> | And for the console, you can either use Open -a Application |
10:19 | <Mwa> | or cd /Applications |
10:19 | <@Bjarni> | the binary file is in *.app/Contents/MacOS/(filename) |
10:19 | <Mwa> | ./App.app/Contents/MacOS/App |
10:19 | <Gekz> | lol how intuitive |
10:20 | <teeg> | used to be a debian person myself (got debian on this box), but moved over to kubuntu for the desktop since it's a bit more up to date (but buggier) than debian. |
10:20 | <Gekz> | never knew that Bjarni |
10:20 | <@Bjarni> | usually bundle applications aren't intended for CLI usage |
10:20 | <Gekz> | I like to do a lot of work from the console though |
10:20 | -!- | Singaporekid [~notme@cm45.epsilon124.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] |
10:20 | <Gekz> | this is why mac os x isnt for me |
10:20 | * | hylje believes there's a helper app that launches .apps |
10:20 | * | Gekz is a power-abuser |
10:20 | <Mwa> | Yes, it's open |
10:20 | <Mwa> | open -a Application |
10:21 | <Mwa> | Also works for other files |
10:21 | <Gekz> | I also don't like the proprietary-ness of macs |
10:21 | <Gekz> | I dont like purchasing apps -_- |
10:21 | <hylje> | yarrr! |
10:21 | <@Bjarni> | <Gekz> never knew that Bjarni <-- I had to figure it out because Xcode makes the bundle just nicely but I wanted to do so from the makefile so basically it makes everything in the bundle manually |
10:21 | <Gekz> | I dont like pirating things either |
10:21 | <@Bjarni> | setting up all the dirs and settings files inside the bundle |
10:21 | <Gekz> | I had to install macports |
10:21 | <Gekz> | and it had a random error |
10:22 | <Gekz> | we couldnt work it out |
10:22 | <Gekz> | ran it from the console |
10:22 | <Gekz> | turns out it was trying to update through a proxy |
10:22 | <Gekz> | with no info about it |
10:22 | <Gekz> | ... |
10:22 | <@Bjarni> | heh... Didn't know open |
10:22 | <@Bjarni> | nice to know |
10:22 | <Mwa> | very useful little tool |
10:22 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
10:22 | <Mwa> | you can use open -e file to make it open in textedit |
10:23 | <Mwa> | I'm going to go shopping now. See you in a bit |
10:23 | <Gekz> | I just like having a package manager |
10:23 | <Gekz> | a central control point for packages |
10:24 | <Gekz> | without me having to drag things around |
10:24 | <@Bjarni> | there is nothing that prevents you from using OpenTTD as a CLI app only |
10:24 | <@peter1138> | aalib! |
10:25 | <SmatZ> | :-) |
10:25 | <@Bjarni> | when you compile it you end up with a binary that acts like the linux binary when it comes to file search and so on. The only difference is that it can be aware of the fact that it ends up in a bundle and can add search paths based on that |
10:25 | <Gekz> | lol |
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10:27 | <Mwa> | As I pass the computer searching for my coat, I will point out here that app bundles eliminate the need for folders, as you can put everything inside them. |
10:27 | -!- | llugo [lugo@p4FD5D98E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
10:28 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
10:28 | <@Bjarni> | updating OpenTTD is just drag-n-drop the bundle as all the needed files (lang files, grf files..) are placed inside the bundle |
10:29 | <Gekz> | I like my directory structure |
10:29 | <@Bjarni> | updating couldn't be easier |
10:29 | <Gekz> | yes, but its space-mongering |
10:29 | <Gekz> | doesnt that mean everything is statically-compiled? |
10:29 | <Mwa> | I will also point out that in the windows version of the nightly builds, the new train orders interface is very confusing. (Also, not just a drag and drop if you installed the original ttd grf files inside the app bundle) |
10:29 | <@Bjarni> | it will not have to be statically linked to work with a bundle |
10:30 | <@Bjarni> | in fact Apple recommends that people link dynamically |
10:30 | <Gekz> | Mwa: the one with the Load, Full Load, Full Load Any or No Load |
10:30 | <Gekz> | ? |
10:30 | <Mwa> | yes |
10:30 | <Gekz> | yes |
10:30 | <Gekz> | it made me cry |
10:30 | <Gekz> | then I got over it |
10:30 | <Gekz> | and quite enjoy it |
10:30 | <@Bjarni> | but I decided on linking statically because otherwise too many people would ditch the game because they couldn't figure out how to install libpng |
10:30 | <Gekz> | could do with some tweaking though |
10:30 | <Mwa> | when I click 'unload', it displays 'unload and take cargo' |
10:30 | <Mwa> | this seems wrong to my mind |
10:31 | <Gekz> | yes |
10:31 | <Gekz> | thats what I thought also |
10:31 | <Gekz> | "Unload without prejudice" |
10:31 | <Gekz> | that would look so awesome |
10:31 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:31 | <Mwa> | Especially as this then causes all my goods stations to fill with passengers if one of the trains isn't refitted to contain goods |
10:32 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:32 | <Yexo> | that's why normally you don't want to use unload |
10:32 | <Gekz> | yes |
10:32 | <Gekz> | unload is for transfers |
10:32 | <Yexo> | as goods will unload anyway if they accept it |
10:32 | <@Bjarni> | we could add an AI to figure out if the cargo should be loaded or unloaded and then you wouldn't need to consider this |
10:32 | <Mwa> | the wiki said to use unload |
10:32 | <Gekz> | like when you have an airport in the wrong place |
10:32 | <Yexo> | Mwa: what page? |
10:32 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: do it! |
10:32 | <@Bjarni> | and based on how well the AI works in general in the game it wouldn't be that tricky to meet such a standard |
10:32 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:33 | <Mwa> | Yexo, the tutorial did when I read it |
10:33 | <Mwa> | that was a couple of months ago though |
10:33 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: doesnt the default AI work quite well except for their building algorithms? |
10:33 | <Gekz> | the random lines of doom |
10:33 | <Mwa> | Gekz, it doesn't do much else other than build |
10:33 | <Gekz> | and the terraforming craptasm. |
10:33 | <Gekz> | Mwa: it can work out how to get one thing from one place to another |
10:33 | <Gekz> | without style. |
10:34 | <Mwa> | Gekz, no it can't |
10:34 | <Gekz> | yes it can! |
10:34 | <Gekz> | :o |
10:34 | <Yexo> | the tutorials says: "Unload ...Any cargo accepted by that station will be handled as usual, i.e. you will be paid. Any cargo not accepted by the station will be unloaded anyway and left for another vehicle to pick up...." |
10:34 | <@Bjarni> | the AI always uses the newest available engine buildable in the depot and once the line is active it never looks at it again |
10:34 | <Mwa> | I often see tracks spiraling forwards and backwards as it builds and deletes while hopelessly trying to get somewhere that I could get to with a single bridge |
10:34 | <@Bjarni> | I'm not sure I would consider that to be a good AI |
10:34 | <Gekz> | thats not what I meant lol |
10:35 | <Mwa> | but anyway, I'm actually leaving now |
10:35 | <Mwa> | bye :p |
10:35 | <@Bjarni> | already? |
10:35 | <Gekz> | I meant its algorithm for deciding where to build two stations |
10:35 | <@Bjarni> | but the night is young |
10:35 | <Gekz> | and how to manage the train One Time Only (tm) |
10:35 | <Mwa> | I do rather need to go shopping |
10:35 | <Mwa> | also it's only 3pm |
10:35 | <@Bjarni> | heh |
10:35 | <@Bjarni> | don't want to starve I see |
10:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | <Ammller> planetmaker: the most famous and oldest "not going to trunk" patch :-) <- i thought subsidiaries patch is older than c&p |
10:36 | <Roest> | wow someone is reading irc logs |
10:36 | <planetmaker> | well... |
10:36 | <@Bjarni> | <Gekz> I meant its algorithm for deciding where to build two stations <-- I have seen two airports that were closer to each other than one of them were from the town it were supposed to service |
10:36 | * | planetmaker does that from time to time, too... |
10:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it could have been something important there... |
10:37 | <@Bjarni> | on IRC??? |
10:37 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: I said train! |
10:37 | <@Bjarni> | LOL |
10:37 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but it's only crap about OO and MacOS |
10:37 | <@Bjarni> | ... |
10:37 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
10:37 | <Ammler> | is subsidiaries still maintained? |
10:37 | <@Bjarni> | Gekz is talking crap about Mac o_O |
10:37 | <Gekz> | Mac makes its own crap |
10:37 | <Gekz> | it costs the monies! |
10:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Ammler: i kinda doubt it, but i haven't checked... |
10:38 | <Gekz> | plus I love my xfce |
10:38 | <Roest> | i thought you can talk crap about mac |
10:38 | <Roest> | cant* |
10:38 | <Gekz> | http://bbqsrc.net/crap/conky.png |
10:38 | <Tefad> | mac what's that |
10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i assume it died with the C++ port |
10:38 | * | Bjarni wonders what computer crap looks like |
10:38 | <Tefad> | hey conky : D |
10:38 | <Gekz> | that is my desktop lol |
10:38 | <Ammler> | I guess, there is something new bases on truelights sharing patch for wwottdgd |
10:38 | -!- | GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has quit [Quit: You will never be the man your mother was!] |
10:38 | <Ammler> | based |
10:39 | <Tefad> | Gekz: still running xandros? |
10:39 | <Gekz> | Tefad: rofl no |
10:39 | <Gekz> | Debian. |
10:39 | <@Bjarni> | <Tefad> mac what's that <-- that's some hardware that can run OSX |
10:39 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: my dell can run Mac OS X |
10:39 | <Tefad> | neat, i've seen non mac hardware that runs OS X |
10:39 | <Gekz> | doesnt mean its worth it |
10:39 | <@Bjarni> | Tefad: OSX is the OS you have on the old computer in the corner |
10:39 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:39 | <planetmaker> | ^^ and linux and windows, and... too :) |
10:39 | <Tefad> | yeah i had 10.3 on one of my powersurges |
10:40 | <Gekz> | planetmaker: not AIX |
10:40 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:40 | <@Bjarni> | <Gekz> Bjarni: my dell can run Mac OS X <-- not according to the EULA |
10:40 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: read the EULA again |
10:40 | <Tefad> | but 3GB isn't enough to do anything with |
10:40 | <Gekz> | it says Apple-labelled |
10:40 | <Gekz> | I can get a Dymo labeller |
10:40 | <Gekz> | and write Apple on it |
10:40 | <planetmaker> | Gekz: sure? Haven't given it a shot in a VM, but... |
10:40 | <Gekz> | planetmaker: I' |
10:40 | <Gekz> | m sure. |
10:40 | <Gekz> | it will not run. |
10:40 | <Tefad> | there's a new apple clone maker now |
10:41 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:41 | <planetmaker> | but not 100% cloned. |
10:41 | <Gekz> | Russian? |
10:41 | <planetmaker> | US |
10:41 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:41 | <Gekz> | fail |
10:41 | <Tefad> | emulates EFI or something |
10:41 | <Gekz> | pfft |
10:41 | <Gekz> | how second-rate |
10:41 | <Ammler> | if a "patcher" is bored, I would like to see that patch on current trunk: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35001&hilit=newgrf_gui ;-) |
10:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Ammler: afaik subsidiaries had big problems with multiplayer, and it was considered wrong by design, so pretty early it was decided that it's not going to trunk |
10:41 | <@Bjarni> | http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/14/openmac-promises-399-headless-mac-but-not-from-apple/ <-- this one can run OSX as well and that's not a mac either |
10:42 | <Gekz> | Bjarni: my eee can run Mac OS X |
10:42 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:42 | <@Bjarni> | eee? |
10:42 | <Gekz> | eeepc |
10:42 | <Gekz> | Asus EeePC |
10:42 | <Tefad> | Gekz: really? |
10:42 | <Roest> | ammler i think that thing died because it didnt support these ultra low resolution nobody uses |
10:42 | <Gekz> | yes, really. |
10:42 | <Tefad> | wow. |
10:43 | <Tefad> | 700MHz of screaming agony. |
10:43 | <Gekz> | xD |
10:43 | <planetmaker> | The NewGRF-GUI would be indeed a "nice-to-have" feature. |
10:43 | <Roest> | and yes i'd like that one too |
10:43 | <Gekz> | Tefad: it doesnt run too bad actually |
10:43 | <Tefad> | Bjarni: that's what i was talking about |
10:43 | <Ammler> | oh, don't get me wrong, I do not want it IN trunk, only compatible for trunk |
10:44 | <Gekz> | no, go for trunk |
10:44 | <Gekz> | it needs an update |
10:44 | <Gekz> | and that kicks ass. |
10:44 | <Roest> | and diff 11499 means it's a nightmare to bring it to current trunk |
10:44 | <Gekz> | it doesnt look like it would be that complex. |
10:44 | <Ammler> | there is a solution how to handle small res. |
10:44 | <Roest> | go for it then gekz |
10:44 | <Ammler> | (just use old GUI for them ;-) |
10:45 | <Gekz> | how would it not fit on 640x480? |
10:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | there are solutions < 640x480 |
10:47 | <Ammler> | resolutions |
10:47 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | whatever |
10:47 | <Ammler> | :-) |
10:48 | <Gekz> | they dont count |
10:48 | <Gekz> | people dont use them |
10:48 | <Gekz> | and never have! |
10:48 | <@Bjarni> | some handheld devices use 320x240 |
10:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | civ 1 ran on 320x200 |
10:49 | <Roest> | it's all nice and fancy, but seriously, who plays on these handheld devices |
10:50 | <Celestar> | most games before like 1994 ran around 320x200 or 320x240 |
10:50 | <Ammler> | hmm, why not |
10:50 | <Celestar> | CIV1 had some 640x240 mode iirc |
10:51 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | never seen that... |
10:51 | <Celestar> | maybe I'm mistaken |
10:51 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it had different modes for amount of colours, though |
10:51 | <Celestar> | possible that 640x240 only worked on 16 colors |
10:51 | <Gekz> | yes |
10:51 | <Celestar> | likely because it was written for 256kb vram or something |
10:51 | <Gekz> | but why should we have to give up nice things for the poor people |
10:52 | * | Celestar computes |
10:52 | <SmatZ> | games from 80's-90's supported many video adapters - Tandy, Hercules, CGA, EGA, VGA :) |
10:52 | <Gekz> | and afaik, ports to handhelds are not part of the main project that is OpenTTD |
10:52 | <Celestar> | Gekz: because I didn't have a color monitor |
10:52 | <Gekz> | Celestar: I didnt have a colour monitor until 1998 |
10:52 | <planetmaker> | hm... any chance to solve the resolution problem with a simple if... else clause? |
10:52 | <Ammler> | Roest: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=37115 <-- this guy for example :-) |
10:52 | <Celestar> | planetmaker: what resolution problem are we talking about? |
10:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 320x200x256 or 640x480x16 were 256kB i believe |
10:53 | <SmatZ> | 320x200x256 fits in 64kB |
10:53 | <@peter1138> | civ was 320x200 only |
10:53 | <Gekz> | if they're real men they'd configure their newgrfs in the config |
10:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | there was also a 640x400 mode for some devices |
10:53 | <Gekz> | no gui for them |
10:53 | <planetmaker> | Celestar: people here said that the NewGRF-GUI would have problems with small resolutions (of the screen) |
10:53 | <Gekz> | also, I've played OpenTTD on a Palm TX |
10:54 | <Gekz> | I do not recommend it |
10:54 | <Roest> | i guess playing wihtout a mouse is just painful |
10:54 | <planetmaker> | Celestar: it may, as it has a pretty wide window. But for "normal" PCs no problem, only for handhelds and such |
10:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i played TTO without mouse a lot of times |
10:54 | <Ammler> | Roest: with a pen |
10:55 | <Celestar> | I see |
10:55 | <hylje> | multitouch! |
10:55 | <Ammler> | :-) |
10:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | TTD(win) lost the ability to move the pointer with alt+←↓→↑ |
10:55 | <Gekz> | playing Baldurs Gate on a nokia |
10:55 | <Gekz> | I want to do that! |
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10:56 | <Gekz> | http://linux.prinas.si/gemrb/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=cache&w=900&h=661&media=gemrb_800x480_xl.jpg |
10:56 | <Gekz> | Baldurs Gate 2 on a nokia |
10:56 | <Gekz> | hahaha |
10:57 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i want that feature back, but nobody listens to me anyway |
10:57 | <Gekz> | Eddi|zuHause2: lol. |
10:57 | <Gekz> | Eddi|zuHause2: flyspray feature request! |
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10:58 | <Gekz> | Eddi|zuHause2: I bet the time setting patch would have been useful back then :P |
10:58 | <Gekz> | at the moment, it takes an hour for a year to pass |
10:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what time setting patch? |
10:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you mean daylength? |
10:58 | <Gekz> | I'm only at 1937 and I have $10,000,000 lol |
10:58 | <Gekz> | yes |
10:58 | <Gekz> | daylength |
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10:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | not necessarily... |
10:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | F1 key is very popular ;) |
10:59 | <Gekz> | lol |
10:59 | <Gekz> | pause ftw. |
11:01 | <Gekz> | I dont believe I havent started more games at 19301 |
11:01 | <Gekz> | 1930!* |
11:01 | <Gekz> | DBSetXL |
11:01 | <Gekz> | you have one bus, no other vehicles, and a few trains |
11:01 | <Gekz> | its awesome |
11:01 | <Gekz> | lol, and if you have the PlaneSetw.grf, you have the Zeppelin |
11:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i always start 1920 |
11:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | or 1923 if i get tired of using BR 92 |
11:03 | <Gekz> | lol |
11:03 | <Gekz> | you're insane :P |
11:03 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | why? that's the intended way to use the set |
11:03 | <Gekz> | I know |
11:04 | <Gekz> | but still |
11:04 | <Gekz> | masochist! |
11:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | plus, you have the Ford Model T ;) |
11:04 | <hylje> | how so |
11:04 | <hylje> | choo choo |
11:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and a tram, depending on which set you use |
11:04 | <Gekz> | Ford Model T? |
11:05 | <Gekz> | what set is that |
11:05 | <Gekz> | lol |
11:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hovs |
11:05 | <Gekz> | o.O |
11:05 | <@peter1138> | yeah, starting in 1920 is the only way to play properly |
11:05 | <Denyerec> | I have been starting in 1940 |
11:06 | <Denyerec> | now I hear 1920 is the way to go? Ye gads! |
11:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | DBSet engines get expensive if you start in later stages |
11:06 | <Gekz> | UK Bus Set |
11:06 | <Gekz> | oh |
11:06 | <frosch123> | <Eddi|zuHause2> or 1923 if i get tired of using BR 92 <- yes, that is why I always start in 1923 :p |
11:06 | <SmatZ> | and with breakdowns |
11:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | frosch123: yes, there is too little choice in 1920 |
11:06 | <@peter1138> | half the game is missed if you start in 1940 ;) |
11:06 | <Gekz> | breakdowns suck |
11:06 | <Gekz> | someone should rewrite it |
11:06 | <Gekz> | to be more realistic |
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11:07 | <Gekz> | give me a reason why it just sounded like it exploded |
11:07 | <Gekz> | and stopped in the middle of nowhere |
11:07 | <SmatZ> | it happens |
11:07 | <Gekz> | I WANT REASONS |
11:07 | -!- | [1]Mark is now known as Mark |
11:09 | <SmatZ> | ask mr. Sawyer |
11:09 | <Gekz> | gimme his number |
11:09 | <SmatZ> | www.chrissawyer.com I guess |
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11:09 | <Gekz> | pfft |
11:10 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | unreliability should change some properties of the engines, like maintenance costs *2, or max speed -20km/h |
11:11 | <SmatZ> | I think newgrf can do that |
11:11 | <ln> | Eddi|zuHause2: how many seasons of House M.D. have you watched? |
11:11 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ln: zip, null, nada |
11:12 | <ln> | Eddi|zuHause2: ok, i recommend starting with season 1 episode 1. |
11:12 | <Digitalfox_Home> | Eddi|zuHause2 don't know what you are losing :) |
11:12 | <Gekz> | losing? |
11:12 | <Gekz> | you cant lose what you dont have |
11:12 | <Gekz> | and I hate House. |
11:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i missed the start in germany, haven't got around to catch up after that |
11:13 | <ln> | lucky you, you get to watch it with original voices then. |
11:13 | <Digitalfox_Home> | Gekz say you hate House again and I will press the little button on my red phone saying Nuclear missile launch =0 |
11:14 | <Gekz> | House is shithouse. |
11:14 | <Digitalfox_Home> | ok, missile away.. Wait a couple of hours but don't home.. Don't want it to miss =0 |
11:14 | <Gekz> | lol |
11:14 | <Digitalfox_Home> | *don't go away from home |
11:15 | <Gekz> | lol |
11:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ln: what i always wondered, in the german version of scrubs (around season 6, maybe 5) there is a line like "Ich bin Doktor House ... -meister"... i have no idea how that would work in english |
11:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | [said by the maintenance guy] |
11:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | [who is called "Hausmeister" in german] |
11:17 | <Denyerec> | House rocks. |
11:17 | <Denyerec> | As does a series called The Wire. |
11:18 | <Denyerec> | which sadly has made every other TV show look like utter, overacted, poorly produced shit. |
11:18 | <ln> | Eddi|zuHause2: "House... -keeper" maybe? |
11:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ln: i take it you don't watch scrubs ;) |
11:18 | <Denyerec> | You guys prefer to build a T-shaped mainline, circumnavigate the map, or go for a + shaped mainline ? |
11:19 | <ln> | Eddi|zuHause2: nope, never even heard about it before. :) |
11:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's totally genious... even in the german translation ;) |
11:21 | <@Bjarni> | there is a genius German translation? |
11:21 | <@Bjarni> | wtf |
11:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: a lot of german translations are good if you don't compare them to the original |
11:21 | <@Bjarni> | I like the condition :D |
11:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | so a translation of a comedy series is good, if you laugh your ass off anyway |
11:22 | <@Bjarni> | good point |
11:22 | <Mirrakor> | Eddi|zuHause2: no it's not as good as the German translation, he just says I'm a doctor or something like that if I remember it correct |
11:23 | <@Bjarni> | btw speaking of Germany... Angela Merkel were on TV |
11:23 | <@Bjarni> | apparently she got boobs |
11:23 | <Mirrakor> | angela merkel and her breast... *shrughs* |
11:24 | <@Bjarni> | I was not too happy about her before this incident |
11:24 | -!- | [1]Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd |
11:24 | <@Bjarni> | now she is history in my opinion |
11:24 | <ln> | Eddi|zuHause2: Star Trek: First Contact was so well dubbed in Polish that i couldn't help laughing my ass of even though i don't understand Polish. |
11:25 | <@Bjarni> | heh |
11:25 | * | hylje doesnt think star trek is comedy gold to begin with |
11:25 | <@Bjarni> | read the first half of that line and though "What? He knows Polish?" |
11:26 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | star trek 4 and 6 are quite comically |
11:27 | <SmatZ> | yeah :) "Computer, hello, computer" :) |
11:27 | <SmatZ> | "Use the mouse..." |
11:28 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | "these were not his knees" ;) |
11:28 | <ln> | Eddi|zuHause2: original voices can be heard from the background, one single male voice speaks everyone's lines, including females'. |
11:28 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ln: yes, i know how polish translations work ;) |
11:29 | <ln> | yeah, so, try to listen to such without laughing. |
11:29 | <Mirrakor> | Eddi|zuHause2: In the english version he just says: "Dr. Jan-Itor" (Janitor engl. Hausmeister), he refered to himself as "Dr. Jan Itor" a few times |
11:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's even funnier when they speak german in the background ;) |
11:29 | <@Bjarni> | at one time somebody read about a new addition to MacOS (pre OSX days) and he wrote an Email about how great it would be to get it. He thought it was something from the future and wrote "Star Trek anyone?". Somebody replied with "did they finally add a mic to the mouse?" |
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11:30 | <SmatZ> | :) |
11:30 | -!- | [1]Mark is now known as Mark |
11:30 | -!- | Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d04f2be.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd |
11:30 | <Roujin> | g'day |
11:31 | <SmatZ> | hi |
11:31 | <@Bjarni> | how can it be funnier when they speak German? |
11:31 | <DaleStan> | <Belugas> "often" ... dos it mean ALWAYS ? <-- The Text ID range is always D000..D3FF. Some TTDPatch callback handlers only accept 8-bit returns, but this is, IMO, only for hysterical raisins. |
11:31 | <DaleStan> | <teeg> D0xx means D000..D3FF? wouldn't that mean Dxxx? <-- No. There are 5 different ranges in Dxxx. D000..D3FF is NFO-writable, D400..D7FF is NFO-read-only, D800..DBFF is read-only in Patch code and undefined in NFO, DC00..DCFF is completely different NFO-writable range, and DD00..DFFF is undefined everywhere. |
11:31 | <@Bjarni> | hi Roujin |
11:31 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: (very) rarely they add jokes when there weren't any in the original |
11:31 | <@Bjarni> | #tycoon? |
11:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | these NFO conversations are fun, one sentence every 12 hours ;) |
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11:38 | <@Bjarni> | in one of the first Tintin movies they changed what they said in the Danish translation. They added parodies of famous Danes and wordplays and stuff like that |
11:38 | <@Bjarni> | now I really wonder what they actually said in the original |
11:39 | <Mwa> | I return! |
11:40 | <@Bjarni> | they did make a great deal out of it and used some of the most famous movie actors to add the voices. The sports broadcast on a radio were spoken by a real (and most likely most famous ever) sports reporter |
11:40 | <@Bjarni> | you don't see such a collection of people adding voices for a cartoon today |
11:41 | <SmatZ> | :) |
11:41 | <@Bjarni> | Mwa: let me guess... you got run over and then you were raised by a necromancer so you could state that you returned, right? |
11:41 | <SmatZ> | maybe they are not allowed to change text in translation that much |
11:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: they often do that kind of stuff for the simpsons here |
11:41 | <hylje> | localized jokes are ok |
11:41 | <hylje> | so are localized wordplays |
11:43 | <@Bjarni> | I read that Monsters Inc had an interesting German translation. The Yeti spoke Austrian and said that he would rather have gone to his relatives in the Alps than to the Himalayas |
11:43 | <@Bjarni> | maybe this is a reference on how Austrians behave or looks or something xD |
11:43 | <hylje> | in before shitstorm |
11:43 | <Mwa> | Bjarni, no. I did buy a potted plant though. |
11:45 | <Mwa> | Oh, and I had a thought for openttd: You should be able to fund new towns like you can with industries |
11:45 | <@Bjarni> | I like a certain part of the Danish subtitles on "'Allo 'Allo". There were a play on words in English and word by word translation wouldn't work. They figured out how to rephrase it to keep the context and the play on words |
11:45 | <@Bjarni> | now that was rather impressive |
11:45 | <Kloopy> | Mwa doesn't read the forums. ;) |
11:45 | <@Belugas> | thanks DaleStan. "Some TTDPatch callback handlers only accept 8-bit returns, but this is, IMO, only for hysterical raisins." Identifying those who are 15bits aware precisely can be a bitchy task, i would assume. The callbacks wiki page lacks that information, from waht i've read so far |
11:45 | <Mwa> | There are forums? |
11:45 | <Kloopy> | :P |
11:45 | <@Bjarni> | www.tt-forums.net |
11:46 | <Kloopy> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31558 |
11:46 | <Mwa> | \o/! |
11:46 | <@Bjarni> | he asked where the forums are, not where the thread about that topic is |
11:46 | <@Bjarni> | you replied incorrectly :P |
11:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | typically, around 50% of the word plays or references get lost in a translation from english to german |
11:47 | <Kloopy> | If you want to be pedantic, Bjarni, he didn't ask where the forums are, he just asked if there were any. :P |
11:47 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i remember an NCIS episode, where they tried to translate chat acronyms like "LMAO" |
11:47 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you could immediately tell that it was a total failure |
11:47 | <@Bjarni> | damn |
11:47 | <Kloopy> | :P |
11:47 | <@Bjarni> | you are right |
11:48 | <@Bjarni> | Mwa: yes there are forums on the internet :P |
11:48 | <Kloopy> | haha |
11:48 | <@Bjarni> | he didn't ask where either |
11:48 | <@Bjarni> | Mwa: yes there are forums :P |
11:48 | <Kloopy> | Nope. |
11:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the forum romanum for example... |
11:48 | <Kloopy> | But it shows how clever and helpful we are because we did our best to work out what he REALLY meant to ask! |
11:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | in the middle of rome, like the name suggests |
11:49 | <Mwa> | I went and looked on openttd.org for 'forums' when you said about them. :p |
11:49 | <Mwa> | I doubt I would have found that topic though. Thans. |
11:49 | <Mwa> | *Thanks. |
11:50 | <Kloopy> | I find that if there's a feature I really want it's either in the "Suggestions" forum or someone has already done some work and I can find it on the "Development" forum. |
11:50 | <@Bjarni> | the forums are a great resource for ideas and info about the game |
11:50 | <@Bjarni> | however you should watch your steps as you might be attacked by ignorance and stupidity |
11:51 | <@Bjarni> | it's the internet after all |
11:51 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Mwa: forums.openttd.org should work |
11:51 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | or forum.* |
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11:55 | <Kloopy> | If the person with responsibility for DNS on the openttd.org domain wanted to do that, there's no reason to not implement both URLs. |
11:56 | <Roest> | ammler |
11:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's most likely truebrain |
11:56 | <Kloopy> | I realise this might be a really naughty questions considering the channel we're in. But I know a fair few people who love to play OpenTTD but none that play TTDPatch. What's different about Patch and why are there two competing games that could surely combine resources and implement more features? |
11:57 | <Ammler> | Kloopy: they already do -> NewGRFs |
11:57 | <DaleStan> | Kloopy: Language, and development goals. At least. |
11:57 | <Kloopy> | Of course NewGRFs, but there's so much more to it than that. |
11:57 | <@Bjarni> | yikes |
11:57 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Kloopy: hysterically, TTDP was first, so it has got a head start on the amount of features |
11:57 | <@Belugas> | that conversation is not going to happen. Don't want to hrea a war in here... |
11:57 | <@Bjarni> | the forum users declared war on us o_O |
11:57 | <Kloopy> | I don't meant to start a war, Belugas. |
11:57 | <Kloopy> | mean* |
11:57 | <@Belugas> | that's a topic VERY prone to a war |
11:57 | <Kloopy> | Hmm, ok. :) |
11:57 | <@Bjarni> | Maybe a good idea to create a subforum in which posters can warship the devs? <--- this is what somebody wrote and he gained support in no time |
11:58 | * | Kloopy throws petals over everyone to make them smile. |
11:58 | <DaleStan> | Well, "didn't mean to" doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. |
11:58 | <Mwa> | what, "Why don't we comebine forces so everyone can be happy" is fighting talk? ;O |
11:59 | <DaleStan> | Because it's been said umpteen times before, and everyone except the person asking the question this time knows it's completely impossible. |
12:00 | <Mwa> | :O |
12:00 | <Mwa> | Fair enough |
12:00 | <@peter1138> | personally i consider people like dalestan helping out here as 'combining resources' ... |
12:01 | <@peter1138> | just a bug report even, heh |
12:01 | <Kloopy> | I just didn't/don't quite understand why there are two separate and very similar community driven and voluntary based coding groups. |
12:01 | <@Belugas> | and we favor collaboration a lot more than confrontation, or competition for what's worth |
12:01 | <Kloopy> | peter, he's just stealing your ideas. ;) :P |
12:02 | <@peter1138> | rubbish, i have no original ideas |
12:02 | <Kloopy> | haga |
12:02 | <Kloopy> | haha* |
12:02 | <Mwa> | Also according to their site ttdp hasn't updated in a year |
12:02 | <Kloopy> | I was just reading that too. |
12:02 | <@Belugas> | false |
12:02 | <@peter1138> | it's not true :) |
12:02 | <@Belugas> | nightlies are done |
12:02 | <Kloopy> | Ah. |
12:03 | <DaleStan> | It was last updated approximately 12 hour ago. |
12:03 | <Ammler> | there aren't many ASM coder left ;-) |
12:03 | <Kloopy> | Just no "official" releases? |
12:03 | <Mwa> | It was? Well, 24 hours ago it said it was last updated in 2007 |
12:03 | <Kloopy> | Mwa, it's a nightlies style update. |
12:03 | <@peter1138> | code update, not release |
12:04 | <Ammler> | DaleStan: the new Transparent GUI looks a little bit confusing |
12:04 | <Kloopy> | Not an offical version numbered release, just a general, "we've added this code and compiled it for you, aren't we nice2. |
12:04 | <Mwa> | Oh |
12:04 | -!- | Mwa [~lexi@70.188-233-85.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
12:04 | <Kloopy> | Bye. :( |
12:04 | <Kloopy> | Someone upset Mwa? :P |
12:04 | -!- | Mwa [~lexi@70.188-233-85.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #openttd |
12:04 | <Mwa> | That was the wrong application, whoops. |
12:05 | <Kloopy> | lol :P |
12:05 | <DaleStan> | Wally was suggesting that I only use the obviously three-state buttons when transparent or invisible is selected. I haven't done that yet, though. |
12:06 | <Ammler> | well the one from OTTD isn't that better |
12:08 | <Roujin> | well for three states it's hard to find a solution which is _not_ confusing i guess |
12:08 | <Roujin> | maybe drop downs... |
12:08 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | assembler is not compiled. it is assembled |
12:09 | <Ammler> | 4 states, locking |
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12:10 | <Roujin> | if you count that, it's 6 states |
12:10 | <Ammler> | does it need to show all possible states everytime? |
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12:11 | <Roujin> | because locking is a boolean option individual from the other, tri-state option |
12:13 | <Roest> | ammler there you go |
12:13 | <Ammler> | newgrf qui? |
12:14 | <Ammler> | gui |
12:14 | <Roest> | yep |
12:14 | <Ammler> | :-) |
12:14 | <Roest> | it's dirty but seem to work |
12:14 | <ln> | does "thirty pieces of silver" automatically mean something to some of you? |
12:15 | <Roest> | in a rpg sense? like from 50 games or so |
12:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ln: i only know "pieces of eight" |
12:15 | <Ammler> | Roest: it works as a client side only patch, doesn't? |
12:16 | <ln> | in a biblical sense (which i know after i googled it). |
12:16 | <Roest> | i think so |
12:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ln: then it has to do with judas |
12:16 | <ln> | but was said in a non-biblical context. |
12:17 | <ln> | yeah, judas it is, but at least i never remember hearing pieces of silver stressed in those stories. |
12:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, i heard of it, but i neither know wether 30 was the exact number nor would i automatically place this in biblical context |
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12:20 | <Ammler> | Roest: works, nice done, thank you :-) |
12:22 | <Ammler> | hmm, one little glitch: not possible to rise size horizontally. |
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12:23 | <Roest> | yea i see that now, probably because windows flags changed a bit since he wrote it |
12:23 | <Roest> | or i have no clue |
12:23 | <Ammler> | :-) |
12:24 | <Ammler> | I guess, I should be able to find the size in the code, so I can change that self... |
12:25 | <Roest> | it's in line 524 in newgrf_gui.cpp |
12:26 | <Roest> | still can't see why it's not resizable in that direction |
12:30 | <Roujin> | i'd like to know the opinion of openttd devs regarding my menu jumping patch. dalestan argued in my thread that it's wrong to use signs for something like that. I think it's okay to do so, for some reasons I also wrote in my thread. Now, what do you think about it? (Belugas, Bjarni, peter1138, Rubidium) |
12:31 | <Yexo> | Roest: all your widget definitions have RESIZE_TO, which means move down, RESIZE_NONE -> stay, or RESIZE_BOTTOM -> make vertical bigger |
12:31 | <Denyerec> | Tell you what, on my screen OTTD sometimes feels like an eye test |
12:32 | <Yexo> | there are no widgets that are horizontal resizeable |
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12:32 | <Roest> | yea i'm checking something, he had the title at resize_none |
12:34 | <Ammler> | Roujin: in the meantime: I like that patch very much, did you read my question in your thread about? |
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12:35 | <Ammler> | it would be cool to have a button, sighting or something like that which you can click and the client jumps from one sign to the next... |
12:35 | <Ammler> | like you do with title |
12:36 | <Ammler> | sometimes I use follow train for simulating that :-) |
12:37 | <Zuu> | Someone on mac that can help out checking the keycode of the '+' key (not the one on the numpad but the other one). As help the keycode that OpenTTD uses for minus is 0x1B or 27 in decimal. |
12:38 | <Zuu> | One way to get it is possible to run synergy in debug level 1 and read it from its debug window. |
12:40 | <Roujin> | Ammler: I've read that, but in normal games, i think signs won't exactly be placed in a manner that such a sightseeing mode would make sense.. |
12:42 | <Ammler> | it would fit #openttdcoop style :-) |
12:42 | <Ammler> | we tend to sign interesting things |
12:42 | <Roujin> | for example take any openttdcoop game ;) it will stay on the voting board for an eternity ;) |
12:42 | <Roujin> | yes, but signs are also used for communication there.. |
12:42 | <Zuu> | Some filter would perhaps be usable. |
12:43 | <Ammler> | a customizeable filter should it be then |
12:43 | <Ammler> | I would filter to have a space or a "!" in front for coop games |
12:44 | <Ammler> | Roujin: other thing is also the possibility to move the start menu... |
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12:45 | <Roujin> | to be honest i don't want to go down into the string system and make a filter.. especially a configurable one O_O sorry.. |
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12:53 | <Roujin> | Ammler: If you want to do something like this on a openttdcoop game, you could make it yourself by making a start sign: ##sightseeing _start and then ##sightseeing 01 to xx then ##sightseeing end. Then use the "cycle through signs" feature to make the tour. |
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12:57 | <Ammler> | Roujin: the "cycle through signs" feature could also be runnes ingame, you mean? |
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12:58 | <Mwa> | Is there a list of good NewGRFs to install? |
12:59 | <@Belugas> | you should check on forums, that question has been asked a lot |
12:59 | <@Belugas> | and it's all dependant toyour style |
12:59 | <Mwa> | kay |
12:59 | * | Mwa goes to have a look |
13:02 | <Zuu> | I wonders if macintosh differs between keypad plus and normal plus as I've failed to find any documentation that gives any keycode on the normal plus key. |
13:02 | <Mwa> | I can find out for you, if I can remember the program that shows keycodes |
13:03 | <Zuu> | There are many. |
13:03 | <Zuu> | synergy can do it. |
13:03 | <Zuu> | Google gave me a program that looked like some shareware stuff. |
13:04 | <Mwa> | I did have one at one point |
13:05 | <Zuu> | I've found this one: http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/21215 |
13:06 | <Zuu> | Synergy is an open source program to share keyboard between computers that can be used too, if you rather want to trust an open source program. |
13:06 | <Mwa> | There is |
13:06 | <Mwa> | Keys: ?+ |
13:06 | <Mwa> | Key Code: 24 / 0x18 |
13:06 | <Mwa> | Keys: ?+ |
13:06 | <Mwa> | Key Code: 24 / 0x18 |
13:06 | <Mwa> | oops |
13:06 | <Patrick`_> | macs are full of shareware for some reason |
13:06 | <Zuu> | what do you get on the - key? |
13:06 | <Mwa> | Keys: + |
13:06 | <Mwa> | Key Code: 69 / 0x45 |
13:06 | <Patrick`_> | it's like mac programmers are too good |
13:07 | <Mwa> | First one is the keyboard, second is the keypad |
13:07 | <Mwa> | :) |
13:07 | <Zuu> | Mwa: openttd have 0x1B on the '-' key, can you confirm that? |
13:08 | <Mwa> | - as in -_ or the keypad? |
13:08 | <Zuu> | not on the keypad |
13:09 | <Zuu> | the -_ key |
13:09 | <Mwa> | 27 / 0x1b |
13:09 | <Zuu> | nice |
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13:09 | <Zuu> | the ?+ is the non-keypad + key right? |
13:09 | <Wolf01> | hello |
13:09 | <Mwa> | Yes |
13:09 | <Mwa> | The ? displays as the shift symbol here |
13:10 | <Zuu> | Nice, then I hope there is not much more to fix on the zoom with +-key patch. |
13:10 | <Mwa> | The keypad - is 78 / 0x4e |
13:11 | <Wolf01> | Rubidium, yes, you can close the flyspray tast about the transparency features |
13:11 | <Zuu> | same as in openttd. Though the patch is about the non keypad +-key. |
13:12 | <Zuu> | Which currently is not implemented in neither driver. |
13:12 | <Zuu> | any driver* |
13:15 | <Zuu> | Mwa: In OpenTTD, zooming in with the +? key should work currently. Am I correct? |
13:15 | <Zuu> | (statement based on code) |
13:15 | <Mwa> | I'll just boot it |
13:15 | <Denyerec> | is there a Stabel v Nightly comparison document anywhere? |
13:15 | <Mwa> | yes |
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13:15 | <Zuu> | Mwa: Ok, thanks |
13:16 | <Mwa> | It also zooms with = |
13:16 | <Zuu> | yes, as they share the same keycode :) |
13:16 | <Mwa> | This is in 6.0, I haven't finished getting around to compiling the svn |
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13:17 | <Zuu> | 0.6 is probably recent enough. |
13:26 | <Zuu> | Hmm, you don't want to have two diferent WKC_ codes that gives the same keycode on one platform (MAC), on the other hand currently on windows the +-key can not be used as the = key to zoom in. So we have a conflict here. |
13:26 | <Zuu> | Either we on driver level emulates = as + on windows and linux or we have to be aware that WKC_PLUS and WKC_EQUALS coresponds to the same keycode on one platform. |
13:26 | <Zuu> | Correction: emulate + as = |
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13:48 | <Mwa> | Does it matter if you apply a patch to a newer revision than it says it's for? |
13:49 | <Patrick`_> | if the patch applies successfully, try it and see |
13:49 | <SmatZ> | if it applies, then there is a chance it will work |
13:49 | <Roujin> | Mwa: how many revisions apart? |
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14:02 | <Roest> | roujin, whats the benefit of the traffic lights patch other than eyecandy? |
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14:09 | <Roujin> | hm, if you enable the setting that towns build their own traffic lights, you can see it as a new challenge in gameplay. towns will have traffic lights (if someone funds road construction or you use it together with my random road construction patch), so you'll try to route your trucks around towns and not through them.. |
14:10 | <Roujin> | it does not improve speed of road traffic in any way, that's true - at least i haven't found any situation where it would. |
14:11 | <Roujin> | since road vehicles don't have to wait at junctions like it is in real life, and they can go through each other and so on... |
14:11 | <Roest> | i see thanks |
14:11 | <Roest> | so someone still uses trucks? |
14:11 | <Roest> | hehe |
14:13 | <Fingon> | busses mostly, to make towns grow |
14:13 | <@Belugas> | I do |
14:13 | <@Belugas> | for the little time that i test stuffs |
14:14 | <ben_goodger> | I do when I cannot be bothered to make a double-station train |
14:14 | <planetmaker> | Roest: trucks are nice for short-distance delivery |
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14:16 | <extspotter> | hey |
14:16 | <extspotter> | if anyone wants to join a game !UKRS is the one Im in |
14:17 | <extspotter> | its in 2001 at the moment |
14:17 | <Roest> | does it mean you are not using the UKRS? |
14:19 | <Roujin> | noooo, the world will end |
14:19 | <Roujin> | compile farm did not succeed as usually :O |
14:21 | <@Belugas> | that's only MorphOS |
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14:22 | <Roujin> | yes, but!!! isn't morphOS like the most important OS out there? |
14:22 | <@Belugas> | it is? |
14:23 | <Roujin> | no, only joking.. |
14:23 | <Roujin> | sorry.. |
14:23 | <Zuu> | hmm, how ugly is it to call a function on a case: -line, which takes the switch-var as argument? I guess that is pretty ugly, but usefull in some cases. (example: http://paste.openttd.org/2376) |
14:23 | <@Belugas> | anyne on Morphos who can fix it? |
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14:23 | <Roujin> | well i'm going away now anyways, so you won't be bothered with my weird humor :P |
14:24 | <Roujin> | see you :) |
14:24 | <Wolf01> | bye :) |
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14:26 | <SmatZ> | Zuu: is it a C code? |
14:26 | <Zuu> | SmatZ: C++ |
14:26 | <SmatZ> | and well, I think it is ugly :) |
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14:26 | <SmatZ> | you are missing some ';' and keywords |
14:27 | <Fingon> | it looks original but i'm still trying to figure out what it does exactly :P |
14:28 | <Zuu> | SmatZ: I don't see any missing ;.. but I might be ;-blind :p |
14:28 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12736 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: a (small) touch of coding style in viewport.cpp. |
14:29 | <Zuu> | Fingon: It removes the modifier bits before it compares the pressed key with a specific key-code. So that it does not matter if shift, alt, or any other modifier key is down. OpenTTD have many dublicate checks for with or without shift-key, and have completely missed the alt-key in many cases. |
14:30 | <Mwa> | Does svn update warn with conflicts? |
14:30 | <SmatZ> | Zuu: does it compile? |
14:30 | <Zuu> | SmatZ: I have not tried to do so :) |
14:32 | <@Belugas> | "return (plain_pressed_key == key_to_checkfor) ? pressed_key : INVALID_KEY;" |
14:33 | <Fingon> | "return (pressed_key & !MODIFIER_BITS == key_to_checkfor) ? pressed_key : INVALID_KEY;" |
14:33 | <@Belugas> | MSVC might not like it |
14:33 | <Fingon> | because of no () ? |
14:34 | <@Belugas> | yeah |
14:34 | <@Belugas> | Mwa : U = updated, G = merged, C = conflits |
14:35 | <DaleStan> | And !MODIFIER_BITS is just all-around bad. Are you quite sure you didn't mean ~MODIFIER_BITS? |
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14:45 | <Zuu> | DaleStan: I meant the not MODIFIER_BITS. Though I'm not used to bit the bit operators. So yes after checking up bit operators, it should possible be ~ instead of ! |
14:46 | <Zuu> | Hmm, and I think I have to forget the whole idea as g++ does not seam to like the idea of a function call in a case-statement :( |
14:47 | <Fingon> | just make two switches, 1 switching on the original key_pressed value and one on the modified |
14:47 | <@Rubidium> | Zuu: function calls in switches happen quite often in openttd, so I suppose g++ supports them |
14:48 | <DaleStan> | ! is logical; it turns "false" into "true" and all other values into "false". ~ is bit-wise; it inverts every bit. |
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14:48 | <@Rubidium> | or maybe it could be that debian uses a special build that supports calling functions from switches |
14:48 | <Zuu> | Rubidium: from switch (...) or from case: ... ? |
14:49 | <DaleStan> | I am unaware of any place where a function call isn't valid, unless it demands a compile-time constant. |
14:49 | <@Rubidium> | on both places where you have placed dots, assuming there's something before the colon |
14:50 | <Fingon> | i think he means case function(): instead of case 4 : |
14:50 | <Zuu> | my bad, case ... : it should be. |
14:50 | <Zuu> | Fingon: Yes. |
14:50 | <@peter1138> | ah, you can't d that |
14:51 | <Zuu> | Okay, as g++ just told me. :) |
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14:54 | <@Rubidium> | but it isn't specifically g++ that doesn't support it, it is (AFAIK) not part of the C++ specifications |
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14:55 | <Fingon> | idd, switches need constants so they can be compiled as a lookup table for speed |
14:55 | <Zuu> | yea. I've never seen it, and I just though it could be usefull in some key-related situations. But I've now found out it is not supported by C++. :) |
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14:55 | <Zuu> | And even if it would be allowed by C++ I would doubt it would be accepted into trunk because of the uglyness. |
14:55 | <Fingon> | lol |
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14:56 | <Zuu> | I mean if changing a switch-case to ifs is to ugly, then this would be just as ugly if not more. |
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14:57 | <@Belugas> | [14:53] <@Rubidium> but it isn't specifically g++ that doesn't support it, it is (AFAIK) not part of the C++ specifications <-- nor is it in Delphi either |
14:58 | <SmatZ> | I think Basic supports that |
15:01 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12737 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Replace vector with a cut down class to allocate space as necessary. This avoids copying data around for vector's push_back() function. |
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15:08 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | let's rewrite all switches with "proper" virtual function calls ;) |
15:09 | <@Bjarni> | interesting idea |
15:09 | <@Bjarni> | but would it make sense to do so? |
15:10 | <@Rubidium> | yay... creating an object for *every* typed character |
15:10 | <ln> | of course not, it wasn't that way in the original game. |
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15:11 | <Mwa> | latest svn has visual glitches in 10.5 |
15:11 | <@Rubidium> | well, show me an OpenTTD without visual glitches |
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15:12 | <@peter1138> | 'latest' is not a version ;) |
15:16 | <Zuu> | I've brough the WKC_PLUS patch up to date and added support for Windows and MacOSX, but there is a major problem: WKC_PLUS and WKC_EQUALS equals to the same keycode on MacOSX, which could lead to future problems if someone is not aware of it. |
15:16 | <Zuu> | http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1265 |
15:17 | <Zuu> | Another approach could be to make win32 and sdl driver send WKC_EQUALS when the non numpad '+' is pressed, to make it concistent over all platforms. |
15:17 | <Zuu> | Some input on prefered way is welcome. |
15:18 | <@Bjarni> | <Mwa> latest svn has visual glitches in 10.5 <-- do you mean the head revision of OpenTTD or svn itself :p |
15:19 | <@Bjarni> | also telling what glitches would also help |
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15:23 | <Mwa> | Oh, parts of the track and train were flickering in and out of view. I'm not entirely sure what revision it was. I just used svn checkout |
15:24 | <@Bjarni> | I haven't seen that issue before |
15:24 | <@Bjarni> | or rather: I have never seen it |
15:24 | <yorick> | revision is in titlebar then |
15:24 | <@Bjarni> | and in the about window |
15:25 | <Mwa> | Uh, I removed it and backdated |
15:26 | <Mwa> | sorry. |
15:26 | <@Bjarni> | heh |
15:26 | <@Bjarni> | then we will not hear you whine anymore :P |
15:27 | <@Bjarni> | anyway I'm out of here |
15:27 | <@Bjarni> | goodnight |
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15:28 | <dih> | cu |
15:28 | <dih> | ^^ |
15:28 | <Mwa> | I was just pointing it out. By the way, what's enhanced_tunnel and why can I find nothing about it other than things that support it? |
15:28 | <dih> | !inrajB |
15:28 | -!- | planetmaker is now known as pm|work |
15:28 | <yorick> | oh noes |
15:28 | <Mwa> | well, NewGRFs that support it |
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15:34 | <Zuu> | Mwa: If I'm not mistaken enchanced_tunnel is a feature in TTDPatch that allow you to build track on tunnel entrances. |
15:35 | <DaleStan> | Mwa: Because you're not looking on the TTDPatch wiki. |
15:36 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: smatz * r12738 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r12736): some sprites could be left unsorted |
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16:01 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12739 /trunk/src/ (misc/smallvec.h viewport.cpp): -Codechange: use a vector instead of allocating memory in a byte array for ParentSpriteToDraw. |
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16:27 | <governor> | How do i create planes> |
16:27 | <governor> | ? |
16:28 | <@Rubidium> | in a hangar? |
16:28 | <governor> | Do i need to build a hangar? |
16:28 | <@Rubidium> | or using a text editor, a proper drawing program and grfcodec |
16:28 | <governor> | I'm new to ttd |
16:29 | <@Rubidium> | governor: no, but if you want to build planes then you should build a hangar (though hangars are part of airports) |
16:29 | <governor> | In my airport construction dealy all i see are airports :[ |
16:29 | <@Rubidium> | hangars are part of airports |
16:30 | <governor> | doh! |
16:30 | <@Rubidium> | as in: if you build an airport, you get a hangar (or more) for free, except for some heli stuff |
16:30 | <governor> | when i was clicking it, it appeared on the far right side |
16:30 | <governor> | I couldnt see the new airplane button because the thing was way off |
16:31 | <Roest> | governor: this is a good resource http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/OpenTTD |
16:31 | <governor> | yeah, i looked there for airports |
16:31 | <governor> | but like I am saying now, the new airplane button and stuff was hiding |
16:32 | <Roest> | those pesky little buggers always hiding |
16:34 | <governor> | are the bakewell lucketts supposed be to DC-9s and stuff? |
16:35 | <Roest> | you should get a newgrf with planes to get some realistic names |
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16:37 | <Roest> | is there a way to link two settings? like if i have a min and a max value and i want that min value always <= max |
16:38 | <governor> | i'm not the guy to ask |
16:38 | <Roest> | or can a user set any value there and i have to test for that later |
16:38 | <Roest> | i'm not asking you :) |
16:38 | <governor> | o |
16:38 | <@Rubidium> | with a callback you can do that |
16:39 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12740 /trunk/src/ (misc/smallvec.h viewport.cpp): -Codechange: use a vector instead of allocating memory in a byte array for ChildScreenSpriteToDraw. |
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16:42 | <Ammler> | is there a new feature in trunk to set company pw automatically? |
16:43 | <SmatZ> | isn't it in 0.6? |
16:43 | * | SmatZ checks |
16:43 | <Ammler> | ah, I tested default company pw |
16:43 | <Ammler> | SmatZ: is ok |
16:43 | <Ammler> | my fault |
16:43 | <SmatZ> | ok :) |
16:44 | <Ammler> | it would be nice to set company pw over rcon |
16:45 | <Ammler> | but I guess, not possible anymore, because of the hash |
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16:54 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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17:06 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12741 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: do not allocate the viewport drawer each time on the stack, but only once and reuse this. |
17:09 | -!- | Nite [~anonym@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #openttd |
17:09 | <Nite> | hi |
17:10 | <governor> | hi |
17:10 | <Nite> | did anyone check brienettas server |
17:10 | <Nite> | it never syncs |
17:11 | <Nite> | you get dropped out imideatly after youlogged on. |
17:11 | <Nite> | not even time to make savegame. |
17:11 | <Nite> | since days |
17:14 | <Nite> | well ... cya |
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17:22 | <dih> | anybody here familiar with jsp? |
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17:53 | <Roest> | current savegame is still 93 right? |
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18:00 | <+glx> | Roest: yes |
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18:12 | <Roest> | is anyone using the modern tram set? |
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18:16 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: richk * r12742 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (35 files in 6 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r12673:12705. |
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18:34 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: richk * r12743 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (36 files in 7 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r12705:12741. |
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20:38 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12744 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (38 files): [NoAI] -Fix: added a comment to all .hpp.sq that those files are autogenerated, and shouldn't be manually altered |
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20:44 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: smatz * r12745 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: a bit of naming conventions, introduce Is*DepotTile() |
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21:40 | <Gekz> | OMG |
21:40 | <Gekz> | my train esploded |
21:41 | <Gekz> | due to "flooding" |
21:41 | <Gekz> | and then it sunk |
21:41 | <Gekz> | and I said "George, wtf." |
21:48 | <@Belugas> | what's the bad part? that you said George? or that your train exploded? or that it flooded or that it sunk? |
21:49 | <@Belugas> | saying George wtf is pretty bad indeed |
21:58 | <governor> | especially if you don't know a George... |
22:03 | <@Belugas> | but we all do know a George :) |
22:05 | <Digitalfox_Home> | hum.. George Bush? =0 |
22:10 | <Lakie> | I think he means the newGrf authoer George. |
22:11 | <Digitalfox_Home> | Lakie I know ;), I was just joking with Belugas =0 |
22:11 | <@Belugas> | hehe |
22:11 | <Lakie> | Wow, loads of warnings |
22:12 | <Lakie> | Mostly 'warning C4800: 'TileIndex' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)' |
22:12 | <@Belugas> | Why the hell are you all still up??? |
22:12 | <Lakie> | Was playing ut3 |
22:12 | <@Belugas> | if only i coiuld be a student again... |
22:13 | <@Belugas> | i'm working at home and debugging ottd |
22:13 | <@Belugas> | fun fun fun |
22:13 | <Lakie> | Hmmm... 39 warnings |
22:13 | <Lakie> | gah |
22:14 | <Lakie> | Digitalfox_Home: which OS do you use? |
22:14 | <Digitalfox_Home> | Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008 |
22:15 | <Digitalfox_Home> | And Fedora |
22:15 | <Lakie> | On Vista does my icon work ok? |
22:15 | <Digitalfox_Home> | Yes |
22:15 | <Lakie> | And on XP? |
22:16 | <Digitalfox_Home> | didn't test it there |
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22:16 | <Lakie> | Hmm... should work as its just an extended icon |
22:16 | <Lakie> | form of the icon* |
22:16 | <Digitalfox_Home> | I agree |
22:16 | * | Lakie pokes Belugas. |
22:17 | * | Lakie likes his large icons. |
22:17 | <Lakie> | My usb pen has a cat with a fishing rod attached to it witha fish on the end |
22:18 | <governor> | Are the NDS binaries something that should not be talked about? |
22:18 | <@Belugas> | oh... icon... |
22:18 | <@Belugas> | oh fuck... |
22:22 | <governor> | I finally understand signals :) |
22:28 | <Lakie> | Don't worry too much about it Belugas, like I said its a cosmetic thing |
22:28 | <Lakie> | Worry about the code first. :( |
22:28 | <Lakie> | :) * |
22:28 | <@Belugas> | yeah, but i promised... |
22:28 | <@Belugas> | and wow! |
22:28 | <@Belugas> | 200 k???? |
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22:28 | <Lakie> | It is quite large, you do know having 256x256x32bit takes up quite some space! |
22:29 | <Lakie> | Well, actually it has 3 formats more, 96, 128 and 256 |
22:29 | * | Lakie could do the maths |
22:32 | <Lakie> | 39,814 + (3 headers) 3 * 16 + (96px) 36,864 + (128px) 65536 + (256px) 262,144=404406 |
22:33 | <Lakie> | Expect... it doesn't add up to that for some reason |
22:33 | <Lakie> | o_O |
22:33 | <Lakie> | adds upto halve |
22:33 | <@Belugas> | only two icons on there... is it normal? |
22:34 | <Lakie> | icons are basically stored as bitmaps |
22:34 | <@Belugas> | and WHAT IS THE VALUES THAT PIKKA AWAITS????? |
22:34 | <@Belugas> | -IS + ARE |
22:34 | <Lakie> | ? |
22:35 | <Lakie> | Link, Belugas? |
22:35 | * | Lakie runs it through icongrabber |
22:35 | <Lakie> | Something I wrote which can break an icon file down |
22:35 | <@Belugas> | his quarry... |
22:35 | <@Belugas> | i can't make it built |
22:36 | <@Belugas> | i 've been fighting that beast for a while now |
22:36 | <@Belugas> | that and stupid work@work stuff |
22:36 | <Lakie> | Gah, why can't I make the figures add upto what it is, everything I work out tells me it should be larger |
22:38 | <@Belugas> | i give up |
22:38 | <@Belugas> | i'll go to sleep |
22:38 | <@Belugas> | too tired |
22:38 | <@Belugas> | see you tomorrow |
22:38 | * | Belugas is now gone |
22:40 | <Lakie> | Night |
22:40 | <Lakie> | This is really odd, the 256 icon itself should be larger than 200k and yet it fits happily with the rest under 200k |
22:41 | * | Lakie gives up |
22:44 | <Lakie> | Odd, its havle the size it should be so I'm happy |
22:44 | <Lakie> | (and it all works, so meh) |
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23:24 | <governor> | Is there a way to disable autosave? |
23:31 | -!- | Zahl_ [~Zahl@p549F174A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd |
23:31 | <governor> | Nevermind, I found it |
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--- | Log | closed Thu Apr 17 00:00:40 2008 |