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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-22

---Logopened Tue Apr 22 00:00:25 2008
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03:26<Roest>morning
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05:45<Roest>woot paxdest seems to work with current trunk
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06:11<Roest>irc is slow today, maybe a chance to get some work done
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06:12<Noldo>as if
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07:38<X>howdy
07:38<X>im trying to install openttd on my opensuse 10.3 (x64) machine (server)
07:39<ln>"i'm"
07:39<X>actually, it should be "I'm"
07:39<X>so nuuuhh :P
07:39<ln>so true.
07:40<ln>actually it should be x86_64.
07:40<hylje>amd64
07:40<X>vendor neutral better
07:41<ln>ok, now that we have successfully avoided getting to the point, or the point getting to us, go ahead and describe your problems.
07:41<X>I will :P
07:42<X>anyways, it wants rpmlib (from the rpm package), but the rpm package I have installed provides librpm
07:42<X>now, this probably isn't the right place to ask for help
07:42<X>since it wasn't packaged by you
07:42<hylje>consider rolling your own (read: compile)
07:42<ln>who was it packaged by, and for what distribution?
07:42<X>http://packman.links2linux.org/package/openttd/56346
07:42<X>that's the one I sude
07:42<X>*used
07:43<X>just curious, is there no precompiled bunch of files in-a-zip I could download?
07:44<Ammler>X: the packer is not known here
07:44<SpComb>aren't those called "debs" or "rpms"?
07:45<X>true, if they have dependencies
07:45<@peter1138>there's no binary tarball, no
07:45<Ammler>X: but the package should work fine, I have installed it too, the i586
07:45<X>right
07:45<X>ill give that a try
07:45*Brianetta doesn't play because he's broken his compiler
07:46<Brianetta>Hopefully the new Ubuntu will fix it. I have libc from the new one, and binutils from the old. All to get my Creative Zen working...
07:46<X>:)
07:46<@peter1138>hardy heron includes 0.6.0 anyway :)
07:46<SpComb>"includes"?
07:46<@peter1138>as in "apt-get install openttd"
07:46<Brianetta>That's not useful, since I'm so heavily invested in the SVN folder I already have
07:46<X>I started playing with a couple of friends yesterday and we would like to experiment with longer games on a persistent server
07:46<SpComb>but not "Applications -> Games -> OpenTTD" :(
07:47<Ammler>in openSUSE it's zypper in openttd :-)
07:47<Brianetta>Newbuntu: 2 days
07:47<X>\o/ :D
07:47<X>sadly firefox still loves to freeze when viewing lots of flash
07:47<Tefad>not really its fault i think
07:47<hylje>flash likes to freeze
07:47<Tefad>^
07:48<X>it also doesnt seem to like javascripted fade ins and outs
07:48<SpComb>the firefox on the n810 likes to crash at random
07:48<SpComb>e.g. yesterday when loading xkcd.com
07:48<Ammler>I think FF runs better on win then lin
07:48<hylje>SpComb: it became depressed because it realized it couldn't have a soul
07:49<X>Ammler, agreed
07:49<Brianetta>How can it run better?
07:49<Ammler>I prefer Opera...
07:49<Brianetta>I've never seen it do anything sub-optimal on Linux
07:50<SpComb>I've had issues on both
07:51<Brianetta>Can't say I've had any issues with Windows software for years
07:51<Brianetta>None at all
07:51<Ammler>:-)
07:51<SpComb>like when I tried to tank up a large number of pages of reading during a car trip
07:51<planetmaker>:P
07:52<SpComb>couldn't restart firefox either as I would loose the pages, so I had to just wait for it to spend half a minute agonizingly changing tabs
07:52<teeg>firefox can remember what you had
07:53<ln>SpComb: "lose" with one 'o'. (English only)
07:53<teeg>I've fixed firefox on windows many a time by brutally killing it from taskmanager because it uses 50% CPU
07:53<Brianetta>ln: Unless he means to lose, as in to loose an arrow...
07:54*Brianetta pictures the pages twanging away
07:54<Brianetta>teeg: Do you have a dual core machine?
07:54<teeg>yep
07:54<Brianetta>teeg: It wasn't using 50%
07:54<Brianetta>It was using all
07:54<teeg>all of one core, yes
07:54<X>so, transport empire is progressing?
07:55<Brianetta>who empire?
07:55<teeg>if it'd been properly multithreaded, it would've used all of both cores
07:55<SpComb>ln: it was a highly sophisticated metaphor for the pages "slipping" out of memory, designed to trick people into correcting my spelling
07:56<Roest>dont have to trick ln into it
07:56*Brianetta looses an arrow at SpComb's escaping pages
07:57<Brianetta>Thwip! thunk-dukkadikkadik
07:57<X>ah... so even if I want to only run a server I need the deluxe stuff
07:57<X>from the cd
07:57*teeg cries havoc and lets slip the pages of war?
07:57<Brianetta>X: You need the game, yes
07:58<Brianetta>The sprites are essential even if they're not being displayed
07:58<Roest>but then, why would you want to run a server if you never gonna play?
07:59<X>Can I just slap the .GRF files into /usr/share/games/openttd?
07:59<Brianetta>Roest: You might not want to pl,ay *right* *Now*
07:59<Brianetta>X: no
07:59<Ammler>X, if you like them available for all users, else I would suggest ~/.openttd/data/
07:59<teeg>Roest: I started an ottd server back in 2007
08:00<teeg>it's still running, but it stopped responding a few months ago
08:00<X>Right-o, than yous!
08:00*Brianetta runs a server but then kills it when people page him too much
08:00<X>*thank
08:00<Brianetta>I don't have the kind of free time I had when I started it up.
08:00<X>it's a dedicated server
08:01<X>as in, headless
08:01<teeg>actually, the most annoying part of running a server for that long a time is when cities mushroom outwards to look like huge circular blobs
08:01<Roest>btw talking about firefox, seen this yet? http://www.spacetime.com/
08:01<hylje>cities could indeed enjoy some love :-)
08:02<Ammler>feeg: swich off road building by towns and build them self how you like the city grow...
08:02<Roest>teeg: that's why i made that patch, now cities look like smaller circular blobs
08:03<Brianetta>Spacetime's web page took too long to load. Their loss.
08:03<Roest>your loss
08:03<teeg>friend of mine and me did add a patch to limit the population of cities, but switching off road building by towns would work
08:03<Brianetta>Roest: hardly.
08:03<Ammler>Brianetta: so your standard is death now?
08:03<teeg>what? too long?
08:03<Brianetta>Ammler: It's run one 0.6 game so far
08:03<Roest>you on dial up?
08:03<teeg>it took a few seconds at the most here
08:03<Brianetta>so not 100% death
08:03<Brianetta>but it's currently comatose
08:03<Brianetta>Perhaps after I've finished moving house, etc
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08:04<Ammler>it was the best noncoop server around
08:04<Kloopy>So towns favour building next to roads already built around their existing buildings rather than makign new roads?
08:04<Brianetta>I know it was
08:04<Ammler>:-£)
08:05<Roest>kloopy i'd say yes, i'm about 80% sure
08:05<teeg>hm. turning off roadbuilding almost makes it into a sort of sim city where you can influence how cities grow as well. damn. now I'm getting ideas for that as well :|
08:05<Ammler>Is there an other regular copete server with admin support?
08:05<Brianetta>No.
08:05<Brianetta>The community just isn't geared that way
08:05<Brianetta>Admins aren't required
08:05<Brianetta>Those servers which are permanent are also unattended.
08:06<Ammler>thats why I used to play on your server before coop
08:06<Kloopy>Roest: I'd say I'm about the same % sure. But I'd like to know, because then at the start of a game you could build next to a town and build roads right round your station so that your station is in the middle of the city. Also, you then own all the road and can mess up competitors using road vehicles in the city by placing bad one way signs.
08:06<Brianetta>I tried getting an admin team together
08:06<Ammler>and the one from poland or somewhere like that
08:06<Brianetta>I tried getting people to submit scenarios
08:07<Brianetta>Celestar wanted to jointly run his server, but it turned out he wanted me to run his server
08:07<Brianetta>There's no server admin community, so it just doesn't feel worth it.
08:07<@peter1138>copete server?
08:07<Ammler>peter1138: well, the usual ones
08:07<Brianetta>I get no feedback, and I get no satisfaction.
08:08<@peter1138>copete?
08:08<Ammler>competition
08:08<Brianetta>competetive
08:08<Ammler>or so :-)
08:09<@peter1138>oh
08:09<@peter1138>all of them that aren't cooperative then
08:09<Brianetta>(:
08:10<Ammler>currently coop servers are the only server, benear Brianetta's standard (was) and dihedral.de with active admin support.
08:10<Ammler>as far as I know.
08:10<@peter1138>really?
08:10<Ammler>maybe yours
08:10*peter1138 will pop onto his server if necessary
08:10<@peter1138>but it's never necessary
08:10<hylje>but interpeter is a dev, not an admin...
08:11<Ammler>if you join a server and see half map terraformed to water level or something like that, its a typical adminless server.
08:12<@peter1138>i guess i solve that by having hard to find grfs :p
08:12<X>Aren't higher res sprite replacements being worked on?
08:14<Ammler>X keyword is "32bpp", you will find a lot infos about that in wiki and forums
08:15<X>:) but nothing complete/worthy replacements of the current default ones
08:15<Rubidium>it's only that people still do not realise that 32bpp does NOT mean bigger sprites and 'proper' scaling of vehicles
08:15<X>more pixels, no?
08:15<Ammler>X: you should take a look on OpenGFX too, maybe.
08:16<Roest>Rubidium: are 32bpp sprites bigger?
08:16*Roest ducks
08:17<Rubidium>Roest: yes, by about 4 times assuming the GRF codec compresses with exactly the same compression ratio as PNG
08:17<X>groovy
08:17<Roest>cool, i guess that allows 5 more zoomlevels
08:17<hylje>no
08:17<Ammler>:-)
08:17<hylje>32bpp is 4x the pixel depth to 8bpp
08:18<hylje>the sizes are the same for now
08:18<Rubidium>I'm talking about the file size, not the width/height
08:18<Ammler>http://img7.myimg.de/32bpp33684.png
08:18<Tefad>how are company colors handled in 32bit png?
08:19<Rubidium>Tefad: read the docs
08:19<Tefad>point me in the right direction
08:19<Rubidium>Ammler: that's with some patch that won't get into trunk in it's current form
08:20<Ammler>yeah, I know
08:20<Rubidium>or rather, will never make it into trunk
08:20<Ammler>ah, say never never
08:20<Rubidium>so it's: NewGRFs or 32bpp
08:20<Tefad>looks kinda spiffy
08:20<Rubidium>make the choice quite easy
08:20<Tefad>choice?
08:21<Tefad>hmm k
08:21<Rubidium>well, it's either 'zoomed in 32bpp' graphics or NewGRF as they cannot work together without glitches
08:22<Tefad>depends on how the engine works
08:22<@peter1138>we can zoom in 8bpp graphics too
08:22<Ammler>of course, but somehow, it neat to see the details on the 32bpp Graphics
08:23<Roest>damn that pic looks nice
08:23<Ammler>like the fence on the pic
08:23<@peter1138>if i did 8bpp zooming it would not interpolate like that
08:24<Roest>Rubidium: could please take that 'never' statement back, we'll pretend we never heard it :)
08:25<Ammler>Roest: I guess, there will never be enough graphics for that
08:26<Ammler>its a really huge work they did, only for one engine and the waggons.
08:26<@peter1138>what never?
08:26<Ammler>:-)
08:27<@peter1138>i'd like a "double size" mode for 8bpp, like windows used to have
08:27<@peter1138>i can just do that by using a lower screen resolution though
08:27<Tefad>yeah, but who's going to multitask with weird screen res
08:27<Tefad>or switch res on an LCD
08:27<@peter1138>me
08:28<Tefad>ew.
08:28<@peter1138>i can't use my laptop's screen at native resolution
08:28<Tefad>why not?
08:28<@peter1138>because it's 1400x1050 and 15"
08:28<Tefad>sounds awesome : )
08:28<@peter1138>it's horrible
08:28<@peter1138>i use it at 1024x768
08:28<Tefad>then your OS fails
08:28<Roest>i'm getting the impression all that stuff in the graphics sub forum is more less just for fun
08:28<@peter1138>no, my eyes fail
08:29<Tefad>you should be able to match the DPI properly
08:29<@peter1138>doesn't matter, it's the pixel size itself that causes issues
08:29<Tefad>unless you're specifically talking about raster-based games like ottd here ; )
08:29<@peter1138>(how old are you?)
08:30<Tefad>i am 25, i've used 15.1" screen before at 1600x1200 and thought it was the best thing ever
08:30<@peter1138>ahh, a few years yet
08:30<@peter1138>i used to use a 17" CRT at 1600x1200, yes
08:30<Tefad>i'm near sighted
08:30<Tefad>CRTs are too fuzzy for that : \
08:30<@peter1138>lucky... your eyes will get better
08:30<Tefad>ehh
08:30<@peter1138>not a decent CRT
08:30<Tefad>my lenses will just harden
08:31<Tefad>not really get better
08:31<Tefad>also analog doesn't really have decent bandwidth for 1600x1200 at proper refresh rates
08:31<Tefad>artifacts show up, like ghosting
08:32<Tefad>with 1280x1024 85Hz i see some ghosting and other problems
08:32<Brianetta>I have astygmatism
08:33<Tefad>sucks
08:33<Rubidium>just use a 1920x1200 LCD ;)
08:33<Brianetta>Without glasses, no monitor is or can be clear, no matter how big, small, near or far.
08:33<Tefad>i can't stand modern LCDs
08:33<Tefad>they flicker too much : \
08:33<teeg>what?
08:33<Tefad>yes LCDs refresh
08:33<Tefad>i'm tired of people acting shocked when i say this
08:34<teeg>I only see flickering when it's cold
08:34<Tefad>that's the tube probably, different part
08:34<Ammler>well, if you set refresh rate over 60Hz
08:34<teeg>LCDs don't do >60hz do they?
08:34<Tefad>i'm not talking input signal refresh rates
08:35<teeg>I guess you're one of those who see the difference between 25hz film and 50hz film
08:35<Tefad>no idea what you just said
08:35<Tefad>film runs at 24fps, and is usually played back with double frames for 48fps
08:35<teeg>I meant fps, not hz
08:36<Ammler>from ottd itself?
08:36<teeg>ah, I thought it was 25, but okay. a friend of mine claims he sees the difference in smoothness between 25/50/100fps film (his words on the numbers)
08:37<teeg>and he also claims he can see his LCD flickering from time to time, whereas I can't for the life of me see it when he claims he's seeing it
08:37<Tefad>i'm not entirely correct
08:37<@peter1138>Tefad: it's not refresh, it's dithering
08:37<Tefad>not dithering either
08:37<@peter1138>== cheap LCD
08:37<Celestar>Brianetta: :)
08:37<Tefad>it's the inversion pattern of the LCD itself
08:37<@peter1138>it flickers
08:38<Tefad>LCD pixels do not run on DC
08:38<Tefad>their voltage has to be flipped or they get destroyed
08:38<Tefad>inversion techniques: alternate line, double alternate line, alternate pixel, alternate sub-pixel, full frame.
08:39<Tefad>and variations.
08:39<@peter1138>flicker is usually something you spot in your peripheral vision
08:39<Tefad>the altnerate line looks like interlacing : D
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08:39<@peter1138>Tefad: hmm, i think i see that on some phone screens... although that may not LCDs
08:39<Tefad>which is really annoying when i was younger, i kept telling people their screens were interlaced when they were LCDs. they thought i was nuts.
08:39<Tefad>yup, it's the inversion pattern you're noticing
08:40<@peter1138>crappy nokias do it
08:40<@peter1138>but my crappy xda doesn't
08:40<Tefad>i've yet to see a modern phone without LCD
08:40<Tefad>early phones had segment LED screens for great fun
08:40<@peter1138>OLED? heh
08:40<Tefad>don't think OLED has hit cellphones yet, though i could be mistaken.
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08:41<Tefad>some phones LCDs are oriented sideways
08:41<Tefad>vertical bar interlace is weird to look at
08:41<Tefad>anyway, my comment about film being 48fps isn't quite right
08:42<Tefad>for whatever reason, they flash the flim twice without advancing it
08:42<Tefad>somehow this is better than flashing it for a long time with short flickers.
08:42<@peter1138>to reduce flicker...
08:42<@peter1138>yes, it keeps everything simpler, heh
08:43<Tefad>simpler? meh
08:43<Tefad>they have to use brighter bulbs
08:43<Tefad>whatever, this technology is going the way of the dodos soon anyway
08:43<Tefad>analog film, meh ; )
08:44<Tefad>it'll be a while before digital film catches up to 70mm quality though
08:44<Tefad>70mm is nuts.
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08:45<Rubidium>Tefad: is that about 7680x4320 pixels?
08:45<Tefad>70mm? higher i think
08:46<Tefad>33Mpixels is what you described
08:46<Rubidium>yup
08:46<teeg>I believe there are digital cameras which do 25-35mpixels already
08:46<teeg>(but they're damned expensive)
08:46<Tefad>still or motion?
08:46<Rubidium>motion
08:46<teeg>still
08:46<teeg>eh?
08:47<Tefad>i know some films are being shot at "4K"
08:47<teeg>oh wait. you're talking motion. nevermind.
08:47<Rubidium>http://www.nhk.or.jp/digital/en/superhivision/index.html <- seen that
08:48<Tefad>aha this is 7.68K
08:48<Tefad>; )
08:49<Tefad>that's nuts
08:49<Tefad>pretty good though : )
08:49<Tefad>i think 4K touches on 35mm quality
08:49<Tefad>but not quite there
08:49<@peter1138>4000MP?
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08:49<Tefad>also analog film is apparently logarithmic, while CCDs are linear (light response)
08:50<Tefad>no. the "K" stands for width
08:50<Tefad>linear instead of surface
08:50*Rubidium wonders what 4K means ;)
08:50<Tefad>it's even referenced in that link you gave me.
08:50<Rubidium>is it 4096, 3656 or 3996
08:50<@peter1138>so 10MP
08:50<Tefad>ah, they call it 8K
08:50<Tefad>the 7680
08:51<Tefad>but 4K is current standard
08:51<Tefad>2K is older digital standard
08:51<Tefad>it's very similar to HDTV
08:51<Tefad>new stuff is 4K
08:51<@peter1138>"Just but an idea, but anyone ever thought of subways in OTTD?"
08:51<@peter1138>^ lol
08:52<teeg>sigh
08:52<teeg>heh
08:53<teeg>I told one of my friends about my rewrite of ottd, and the first thing he thought of was subways, bendy tunnels, stoplights on bridges etc
08:53<teeg>all valid features which I want to see in ottd myself, but I'm guessing making a subway mode would be slightly annoying. :P
08:54<Roest>peter1138: only 273 posts containing the word subways, it might not have been asked before
08:54<Celestar>teeg: it's not. I made one and it worked quite well
08:54<teeg>oh?
08:54<Celestar>teeg: the underlying game mechanics ... that's another question :)
08:54<Tefad>did it mesh well?
08:54<teeg>hehe
08:55<teeg>is that patch publically available? I might try to look at it when I get the new core fleshed out a bit more
08:55<Celestar>it is in svn
08:55<Celestar>somewhere
08:55<teeg>heh ok
08:56<Celestar>just check out the latest "branches/map" :)
08:57<Celestar>I think it's in there
08:57<teeg>okay. it would be fun if it could be done
09:00<@peter1138>heh
09:01<@peter1138>smatz has a 3d map patch
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09:03<teeg>heh, that reminds me of the guys who "patched" ottd to allow more than 15 (or 16 depending on how you look at it) height levels for the tiles. it's no wonder they got weird results when they exceeded level 15, given that tiles only allow for 3 bits for height, the rest is type.
09:04<@peter1138>heh
09:06<Roest>but then i'd wonder how they get to 15 with 3 bits already
09:06<@peter1138>indeed, it's 4 bits
09:07<teeg>er. duh. I remembered the comment about type being bit 4-7. of course that comment starts from bit #0 I take it
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09:08<dragonhorseboy>hey
09:08<Roest>peter1138: can you give me a hand with what you said yesterday? my crappy programming skills failed so horribly i just used svn revert and never looked at it again
09:12<teeg>yay. finally nothing more to do in the ticketing system. I can finally do more ttd-work.
09:13<dragonhorseboy>teeg heh :-P
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09:38<@Belugas>[08:53] <teeg> all valid features which I want to see in ottd myself, but I'm guessing making a subway mode would be slightly annoying. :P <--- to say the least... A lot wold need to be done before coming to that point
09:39<teeg>which is why I'm not going to touch it with a 10' pole yet.
09:39<dragonhorseboy>belugas yeah opnettd doesn't even have any 'underground construction' mode unlike Rollercoaster Tycoon so good luck :p
09:40*dragonhorseboy *does* own RCT and one expansion pack for it (Corkscrew Follies I think it was)
09:40<Gekz>lol
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09:40<Gekz>Locomotion
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09:41<dragonhorseboy>locomotion? does it actually have underground mode?
09:41<teeg>heh. locomotion was weird. bad pathfinding code and I really did not like the UI for laying tracks/roads etc.
09:41<dragonhorseboy>teeg...you want know what I think the real problem was
09:41<mrfrenzy>what's the fun of building a railway when you can
09:42<mrfrenzy>'t see the trais running?
09:42<dragonhorseboy>rollercoaster tycoon? sure having to lay each tile manually was fine since almost all the times it was always curving or the so in some way ... but try reuse the same gui for a vehicle tycoon game? ughh had someone been drinking too much?
09:42<dragonhorseboy>you know what I mean there teeg?
09:42<@Belugas>dragonhorseboy, who said that we want it? I find it strange this desire, this craving, this aboslute NEED to have everything that other games have.
09:43<dragonhorseboy>mrfrenzy...here's one paluseable hint: the trains are above ground but near major cities they're gone from view being underground heading to nearby station underneath the city :)
09:44<Gekz>Belugas: erm, not many other games have subways
09:44<Gekz>I'd like to have subways in one form or another in openttd
09:45<dragonhorseboy>but for me...since I never really cared much for cities (always rather like small towns for as long as there's enough buildings to accept goods) I wouldn't want to bother with more passenger-only features
09:45<teeg>Belugas: if if the cities had been bigger than they are now, and you wanted to make an inner-city system with proper passenger AI so each city would be its own ecosystem, then it could be a nice feature, but to be honest I believe trams solve that problem, along with the new bus stations
09:45<Gekz>i'm not fond of trams.
09:45<teeg>(and yes, inner-city system with proper passenger ai would eat a lot of cpu, so do not take me wrong, I'm not saying that would be a good direction for ottd. :P)
09:46<@Belugas>indeed, teeg
09:46<Brianetta>Trams can't run on standard gauge rail, which is a shame. Most modern trams can.
09:46<dragonhorseboy>gekz...yeah I kinda have to agree..I've tried many of the downloadable different ones and still don't see one that quite works for me yet
09:46<Gekz>trams in general are old hat.
09:47<Gekz>you get to 2050 yet you lack the ability to stick a train underground?
09:47<Gekz>lol
09:47<mrfrenzy>dragonhorseboy: yeah that's true, subway is only really used in cities
09:47<Gekz>openttd made cities grow massively
09:47<teeg>but I CAN see an undergrond mode for making tunnels would be beneficial, since there are times when I'd just like to offset the tunnel one block without having to terraform. or just do a 90 degree turn
09:47<dragonhorseboy>mrfrenzy...and then there are only a selective few major ones that don't even have any above-ground routes at all (the one in Montreal comes to mind)
09:47<Gekz>lol
09:47<Gekz>Australia has no subway
09:48<Kloopy>Australia doesn't need one, it's so big.
09:48<Gekz>just various small tunnels
09:48<Gekz>and its not densely populated
09:48<Gekz>lol
09:48<dragonhorseboy>gekz...at least thankgod the newer openttd has option to cull that absurb city growth :p
09:48<dragonhorseboy>I have it set to 'slow' and '1 in 4 cities' :)
09:48<Gekz>I think openttd needs to have an option called "Shut the goddamn towns up"
09:48<Gekz>so you can destroy what you want
09:48<dragonhorseboy>not quite the same as ttdp but at least finally its more of my type
09:48<Gekz>without them bitching every 5 minutes
09:49<teeg>heh. ottd godmode? :P
09:49<Gekz>not quite
09:49<Gekz>I just want to be able to destroy 6 buildings without the bitches talking
09:49<Gekz>or at least be able to purchase a building permit from the town
09:49<Gekz>for $2,000,000 or something
09:49<Gekz>for a month of unlimited destruction
09:49<Gekz>with a limit of dropping the population below 500
09:50<Gekz>then it says "No dice."
09:50<Gekz>that's what I'd like.
09:50<Roest>it'd probably already help to remove the fail chance from "bribe the local authorities"
09:51<Roest>which should be easy
09:51<Gekz>I never bribe them
09:51<Gekz>it sucks
09:51<teeg>personally I'd like to be able to structure the city so that busses or trams moved people around in town, subways could go to misc train stations or airplane stations, and trains and planes would take care of intercontinental travel
09:51<dragonhorseboy>either way gekz...
09:51<dragonhorseboy>the reason I haven't bothered with tram grfs is for two reasons...
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09:52<dragonhorseboy>1. nothing with good passenger capacity + top speed to go with it 2. where's at least some goods/food capacity in some of the grfs? (more freight types optional)
09:53<Gekz>dragonhorseboy: theres a modern tram grf
09:53<dragonhorseboy>eg 4LV already can give me a 90+km/h bus with more than 70 passenger capacity in it.. but nearby no trams match that yet
09:53<Gekz>could do with some work, but its pretty good
09:53<dragonhorseboy>(neverminding 120km/h with 120 [or was it 130?] passenger capacity :p)
09:53<@peter1138>4LV's stats do not suit the game very well
09:53<dragonhorseboy>peter...well they suit me well tho
09:53<@peter1138>otoh, tram sets seem to have incredibly low capacity and speed
09:54<dragonhorseboy>peter..I mean..whats the point of trying to stuff more than ten 27-passenger trams into one single stop when just two 120-passenger buses do it much cheaper ;)
09:54<dragonhorseboy>peter...yeah you're right about that
09:55<@peter1138>that's why multistop exists
09:55<dragonhorseboy>peter...there isn't much space for extra stops ^-^
09:55<@peter1138>and that's why 4LV does not suit the game... the capacities are *too high*
09:55<@peter1138>there's always space for drivethrough stops
09:55<teeg>cities are a bit small for proper trams I think, until they become huge circular blobs that is... or you make them yourself
09:55<dragonhorseboy>peter...well several of my towns always have more than 200 passengers waiting at certain barely-fitted-in-there single station stop
09:56<Gekz>teeg: or you nuke parts of the town
09:56<Gekz>teeg: do you like money?
09:56<teeg>Gekz: personally? of course. in-game? sure, because it makes building easier, but other than that, my pet project is making a transportation system which works well more than anything else
09:57<dragonhorseboy>(I should mention that I many times end up with towns built right on long slopes or around irregular shaped coastlines so there isn't even much space to get rails plowed in hence the dependancy on rv's
09:57<Gekz>teeg: I'll give you $5 to make the patch I ranted about
09:57<Gekz>lol
09:57<dragonhorseboy>gekz...hehehe :)
09:57<Roest>Gekz: what's that?
09:57<Gekz>oh man dizzy spell
09:57<teeg>Gekz: hehe, I'm busy working on OOifying everything (which'll cause everyone to yell at me, but that's another matter :P)
09:57<Gekz>I just blew into a fan for 50 secdonds
09:57<Gekz>lol
09:58<Gekz>teeg: I know
09:58<Gekz>I've been watching you since you got here
09:58<teeg>eep
09:58<Gekz>Roest: the patch to allow you to purchase a building contract
09:59<Roest>you know, that's probably easy to do
10:01<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: you can buguse the hiroshima tramset
10:01<Ammler>it has a tram with 450 pass cap
10:02<dragonhorseboy>heh isn't that because its a 3-car one? ;)
10:02<dragonhorseboy>(or was it 4? been some time I last looked at the website for that)
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10:02<Ammler>3, it was meant to have 150 for the whole tram, not per part of it.
10:03<dragonhorseboy>ah
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10:03<Ammler>its something called mit Dortmund, iirc
10:03<dragonhorseboy>hmm well what speed was it again if you recall?
10:04<Ammler>not that fast but that shouldn't matter :-)
10:04<dragonhorseboy>ammler...heh well at least top 70km/h I hope? :p
10:05<Ammler>possible from 60 upwards
10:06<dragonhorseboy>hmm sounds fair
10:06<Ammler>checked its 61
10:07<Ammler>strange, there is another aTram (Greenmover) which hasn't that bug
10:08<dragonhorseboy>ammler...you want to know what tram I'll seriously like to finally see coded?
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10:08<Ammler>isn't it already in moderntrams?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause2><Brianetta> Trams can't run on standard gauge rail, which is a shame. Most modern trams can. <- the Nordhausen tram can use the narrow-gauge rails of the Harzquerbahn (with a secondary diesel engine)
10:09<Ammler>same otherside, ng trains should be able to use tramtracks. :-)
10:10<Celestar>I think Munichs tram runs on 1435mm
10:11<dragonhorseboy>ammler here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32360&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60
10:11<dragonhorseboy>and I'm serious
10:11<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: not in ttd :p
10:12<dragonhorseboy>if I had any real clue on how to make new grf files I would have had made my own private grf for coaltram.grf but since I don't .. well... *sigh*
10:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Leipzig's trams have a weird gauge
10:15<Eddi|zuHause2>1458 mm
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10:17<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: moderntrams has a CarGo tram...
10:17<Eddi|zuHause2>moderntrams is so unfinished...
10:17<Ammler>indeed
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>that's the main problem of the tramsets
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>the feature is very young
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>the good sets need time to brew
10:18<Ammler>Hiroshim is still the best one :-)
10:19<Sacro>nuke?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd like trams i can relate to...
10:19<Eddi|zuHause2>like, ones that were used in "my" city
10:20<ln>fortunately soon there will be a tram in the station signs.
10:22<Eddi|zuHause2>'Gotha' type in the '50s, 'T4' type in the '70s, MGT in the '90s
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10:23<Ammler>ln: do you differ between pass and freight?
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10:25<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/einzelbild/number/179024/kategorie/Deutschland~Straßenbahn~Halle.html <- MGT
10:26<Sacro>Ammler: the amount that die in a crunch
10:26<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/einzelbild/number/126835/kategorie/Deutschland~Straßenbahn~Halle/digitalfotografie/24.html <- T4 (modernised)
10:27<Eddi|zuHause2>funnily, it is going towards "Happy Future" ;)
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/einzelbild/number/113555/kategorie/Deutschland~Straßenbahn~Halle/digitalfotografie/24.html <- "Innenbeschriftung mit Sonderziel in einem KT4D. "Freiimfelder Straße" ist lustig. Dass die Straße mal frei im Feld stand, dürfte schon Jahrzehnte her sein, heute steht die Straße mitten in einer Altbausiedlung, und nebenan ist der HAVAG-Betriebshof." <- that guy has no idea... "Freiimfelde" is the name of a
10:29<Eddi|zuHause2>town
10:29<dragonhorseboy>sorry was afk for a moment
10:29<dragonhorseboy>where's 'moderntrams'?
10:29<Ammler>t4 looks more like narrow trainset
10:30<Gekz>dragonhorseboy: get the openttd coop grf pack
10:30<Gekz>it has everything you'll ever need
10:30<dragonhorseboy>and for the note.. that coal tram was last seen june 2007 so you can imagine why I wish it would already be coded even just as a standalone grf
10:30<dragonhorseboy>gekz...I'll prefer to not clot up my newgrf folder with mass grfs that aren't in one single folder :p
10:30<dragonhorseboy>^-^
10:31<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: T4 also exist in a standard gauge variant
10:31<Gekz>dragonhorseboy: I meant get the pack and look through it
10:31<Gekz>it has that grdf
10:31<Gekz>you foopl
10:31<Ammler>the german RV set should also be nice: http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/germanrv/trams/cargotram.php?lang=en
10:31<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: there's been no release of that, afaik
10:32<Ammler>only betatests, yes
10:32<dragonhorseboy>eddi...nor any sprites drawn yet as I've recalled seeing yet
10:32<Eddi|zuHause2>dragonhorseboy: according to the page, the trams should be mostly finished
10:32<dragonhorseboy>oh hm ok
10:32<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: http://stuff.elmasite.com/citygame.png
10:33<Ammler>(big image)
10:33<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, you're telling me NOW!
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause2>we need proper turning loops
10:35*dragonhorseboy does like the copy of new tramtrk.grf from that russia forum tho ;)
10:36<dragonhorseboy>the altered stops graphics look better to me heh
10:36<Eddi|zuHause2>i wouldn't really trust anything from a russian site
10:37<ln>Ammler: nope. what kind of figure do freight trams have?
10:37<dragonhorseboy>eddi..and why not? thats the only source of the russia plane grf anyhow :p (its not even downloadable from tt-forum/grfcrawler yet)
10:38<Ammler>ln: no idea :-) thats the only CarGo Tram I know: http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/germanrv/trams/cargotram.php?lang=en
10:38<Roest>it will blow up your computer
10:38<dragonhorseboy>roest..nope
10:39<roboman>does the openttd windows instaler store anything in the registry?
10:39<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: you see some graphics glitches in curves
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10:39<Ammler>actually, I am not participate in current testings
10:39<Ammler>the screen is from RK
10:40<Roest>those guys should hurry up, i want that tram set
10:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12837 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Alignment of widget array
10:41<Ammler>1. public release is planned the end of month
10:41<Roest>cool, thats soon enough
10:42<Eddi|zuHause2>"1." <- that'd be ln's part to shout "english only" now :p
10:43<Eddi|zuHause2>but he missed the chance
10:43<dragonhorseboy>heh
10:44-!-fco [~fran@62.175.76.53.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit []
10:45<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/einzelbild/number/19728/kategorie/Deutschland~Straßenbahn~Halle/digitalfotografie/48.html <- i don't know the name of that type of tram, but it's the oldest i could find
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10:52<Roest>http://www.strassenbahnmuseum.de/
10:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean of my town
10:54<Roest>halle will be asimilated soon anyway
10:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you wish :p
10:55<Gekz>Mi estas homo1
10:55<Gekz>:P
10:55<Eddi|zuHause2>(actually, we'd do almost anything to get away from the reign of Magdeburg)
10:56<Roest>lol i know, there was once talk of halle joining saxony
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10:57<Eddi|zuHause2>it'd have been way more senseful than this artificial "Sachsen-Anhalt" thingie that historically never was a real country
10:57<yorick>peter1138, the ISR station animation doesn't stop if a train leaves in an "unnatural way" i.e. skipping orders
10:57-!-GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has quit [Quit: You will never be the man your mother was!]
10:57<Gekz>yorick: it's true
10:58<Eddi|zuHause2>Roest: anyway, the tram in halle is way older than the tram in leipzig
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11:07<@peter1138>don't skip orders then :)
11:08<yorick>don't make the illusion you can do it bugless then :)
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>PS: if you take the historic tram above, and read the route given on the side, and compare it with the modern map at http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/halle/halle-map.htm
11:09<Eddi|zuHause2>the route goes from the main station ("Hbf") on the right
11:09*yorick goes updating fs#1866 *cough* to the newest trunk for community integrated version
11:09<Eddi|zuHause2>north via "Steintor"
11:09<Eddi|zuHause2>west via "Marktplatz"
11:09<yorick>could someone change it from "feature request" to "patch"?
11:09<Eddi|zuHause2>and south to "Rannischer Platz"
11:11<Eddi|zuHause2>the network grew a tiny bit bigger in the meantime ;)
11:11<Eddi|zuHause2>funnily, the number of lines did not grow much
11:12<Eddi|zuHause2>it started with 6 lines ("green tram") in the southern part, and 3 lines ("red tram") in the northern part
11:13<Eddi|zuHause2>now there are 12 lines
11:22<@peter1138>wibble
11:22<Roest>wobble
11:23<Rubidium>hmm, if someone starts coughing because a patch I better not touch it (don't like coughing)
11:23<yorick>wabble
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11:38*yorick added a fix for vista to the bottd topic :)
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11:49<yorick>hmm...openttd.notice isn't working?
11:55<ln>http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1131342&size=L http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1134272&size=L
11:57*lobster enters
11:57<lobster>question: does anyone know if the Intel mac/UB versions of the nightlies have been fixed?
11:58<@peter1138>don't think so
12:01<lobster>hmm, gnarliness
12:01<lobster>i don't really feel like compiling myself
12:01<lobster>apparently there's been something wrong on the compiling farm for ages
12:02<lobster>a bit odd that it's not getting fixed, if you don't mind me saying
12:03<@peter1138>yeah, you'd think our mac porter would come up with something
12:04<Tefad>isn't that bjarni
12:06<ln>no, it's Bjarni!
12:06<lobster>hmmm, quite
12:06<lobster>well, i'm gonna try the current nightlies
12:06<lobster>PPC and Intel
12:07<lobster>and the general OSX one, which i'm not sure of is UB
12:07<lobster>eventually i might've to run the Windows version through CrossOver or something
12:07<lobster>although i'd rather not
12:07<ln>http://www.pointniner.com/2008/04/uav-films-own-demise-as-russian-mig.html
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12:08<lobster>hmm, nothing
12:09<lobster>ah, the PPC version works, oddly enough
12:09<lobster>how... rare
12:12<yorick>what's that peter1138 patch list thingy?
12:12<yorick>where*
12:14<@Belugas>a patch that implements a list?
12:14<yorick>no, his patch directory
12:15<yorick>full with 90% finished patches :p
12:15<@Belugas>Bermuda Triangle!
12:16<@Belugas>everything goes in, very little can escape
12:17<yorick>such a thing, my friend, is called a black hole
12:18-!-Kill [~Kill@200-140-4-165.bsace703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd
12:19<yorick>but where is his website including patch directory?
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12:26<yorick>ah, http://fuzzle.org/o/ :)
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>PSSST!!
12:27<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a secret!
12:27<yorick>yes, mentioned in this channel 8 times before
12:28<yorick>[2008-03-06 21:27:12] <fjb> http://fuzzle.org/o/, [2008-03-16 19:02:31] <@peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: http://fuzzle.org/o/whereswally.png
12:28<yorick>so on
12:29<yorick>he even licensed it
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>my (half) logs count 44
12:30<yorick>heh
12:30-!-Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-7-215.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:30<yorick>I grepped it a couple of times
12:30<yorick>first by http://, then negative by pastebin, and then by peter
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12:34<Eddi|zuHause2>my old logs have another 212
12:38<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm sure i have even older logs than that
12:39<yorick>hmm...engine pool needs engine_base.h, but where is it?
12:39<Eddi|zuHause2>logs start on 23. Jun 2006, which is the date i installed linux
12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>that was a few months before the channel moved
12:41-!-thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60EC3.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
12:42*yorick should slap peter1138 for providing patches with missing files that claim to patch to a revision while they don't
12:43<yorick>-/** @file engine_type.h Types related to engines. */ ...+/** @file engine_base.h Types related to engines. */
12:44-!-Purno_ [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
12:44<yorick>huh..why does it rename?
12:45-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@62.243.161.210] has joined #openttd
12:45-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
12:45<yorick>argh
12:45*yorick is confused
12:47*yorick got it
12:47<@Bjarni>already?
12:48<yorick>yes, turns out you should rename r12723 engine_type.h to engine_base.h, then update to r12826 and let the engine_type restore
12:48<+glx>yorick: easy, you need to copy engine_type.h to engine_base.h before patching
12:48-!-Volley [~worf@84.119.67.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:48<+glx>because it was an svn cp
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12:49<yorick>now going to eat, cyas
12:49<Eddi|zuHause2>_really_ old logs have another 46 instances, btw, totalling in 302
12:50<Tefad>sfw http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8301/outsidese1.jpg
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>"so fucking what"?
12:50<Tefad>safe for work.
12:50<@Bjarni>sounds like my hardware can't handle it
12:50<Tefad>Bjarni: what up
12:51<@Bjarni>the sky
12:51<Tefad>not the intel mac nightlies?
12:51<cjk>sun free ware :)
12:52<+glx>Tefad: the problem is for 10.5 only ;)
12:53<Tefad>oh, how nice
12:53<Tefad>apple breaking compatibility as usual
12:53<Tefad>how do users/developers put up with that crap
12:53<@Bjarni>no
12:53<+glx>compile farm needs an update
12:53<Tefad>ah.
12:53<@Bjarni>but updating caused issues
12:53<Tefad>problems?
12:54<@Bjarni>it's running gentoo and because of that we have to build from source
12:54<Tefad>nice, i have gentoo
12:54<Tefad>apple gcc is wonky however.
12:54<@Bjarni>wonky?
12:55<Tefad>i don't even think that's used much in US mostly UK : x
12:55<Tefad>(i'm US)
12:55<Tefad>wonky.. uh goofy?
12:55<Tefad>screwy?
12:55<Tefad>backwards?
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12:56<@Bjarni>ahh google explained it better than you
12:56<@Bjarni>however what do you mean?
12:56<@Bjarni>do you think that gcc is broken?
12:57<Tefad>apple's gcc has weird stuff eh?
12:57<Tefad>ok anyway, toodles.
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12:57<cjk>it has a bite :)
13:00<@Bjarni>you speak of it like it's gcc for MorphOS
13:00<+glx>gcc for MorphOS is just old
13:00<@Bjarni>yeah
13:00<@Bjarni>but it's broken when it comes to compiling code written for gcc 4
13:03<Roest>ok i'm blind , can anyone point me to WindowDesc at http://docs.openttd.org
13:03<Roest>nevermind found it
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13:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12838 /branches/noai/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIEventEnginePreview, which tells you when you have been chosen for testing an engine, and allows you to accept it
13:05<@Bjarni>Roest: how did you find it? AFAIK it's not written in braille
13:05<Roest>my computer reads websites for me
13:07<Roest>http://deafandblind.com/braille-keyboard.html
13:12<yorick>does it also read irc?
13:13<Roest>of course
13:14<cjk>7|2Y 70 |234|> 7|-|15 :-)
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13:16*teeg doesn't want to admit to being able to read cjk's text :(
13:16-!-Roest [~ralph@p54B9F87D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:16<Prof_Frink>teeg: I managed, with some effort
13:17<teeg>it took 100x times as long as normal text, but it's doable
13:23<cjk>and like 自宅
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13:30<ooo4tom>would someone like to explain why installing OpenTTD 0.6.0 is such a pain in the back side ?
13:31<SpComb>what aspect of it is a PITA?
13:31<ooo4tom>installing the Nightly was a walk in the park, but 0.6.0 no
13:31<cjk>worked.
13:31<ooo4tom>why is it not the same as a nightly build ?
13:31<ooo4tom>usr folders, shared and so on
13:31<ooo4tom>with the nightly is extract and copy files, and play
13:32<+glx>for releases it's install and play
13:33<ooo4tom>i'd prefer the option, like Windows user have :(
13:35<cjk>windows users generally don't have the option of unzipping, but they are often stuck with installing some bloaty .exe which writes to the registry :p
13:36-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host16-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:36<Wolf01>hello
13:36-!-Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|Blind
13:36<ooo4tom>Window user have the option to download a Zip file or a EXE :s
13:38<cjk>in openttd yes. But not every windows program is designed with portability in mind.
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13:40<ooo4tom>i'm just finding it a little hard to get my head around this. so please ignore me lol
13:40<yorick>cjk, http://legroom.net/software/uniextract
13:41<yorick>the lastet version is somewath old, but if an archive doesn't extract, you might try to google for a new version of the tool used for it
13:43<cjk>that still would not help programs that depend (ugh) on some regentry being there
13:43<cjk>you know what's ironic
13:43<cjk>uniextract is an installer itself
13:44<yorick>autoit can also be used for other things
13:44<yorick>and a rar archive is also downloadable
13:45<Wolf01|Blind>http://lh5.ggpht.com/abramsv/SAubFEkZrXI/AAAAAAAAOx0/DHjMUEByhEE/s1600-h/Ring_k.jpg oh my lol!!!
13:46<ooo4tom>:O
13:46<cjk>noob :>
13:46<yorick>:D
13:47<ooo4tom>just got 0.6.0 running, manully extracting the needed files from the download .bed
13:47<ooo4tom>deb *
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13:47<yorick>...
13:47<cjk>unzip, not bed. http://bash.org/?23601
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13:49<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a classic ;)
13:49<Tefad>heh
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13:54<yorick>http://bash.org/?40815 :)
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14:02<Sacro>Bjarni!
14:02<yorick>Sacro!
14:02<Sacro>Tefad!
14:03-!-X [~X@nblzone-240-38.nblnetworks.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä]
14:03<cjk>...
14:04-!-sickie88 is now known as SickieAway
14:04<yorick>Tefad!? where?
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14:09<Gedemon>hello !
14:11<yorick>hello!!!!
14:14<Gedemon>peter1138 : is it ok for you if the enginepool patch is used in the community integrated version ?
14:19<yorick>yes
14:20<yorick>it's licensed under the GPL
14:20-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
14:20<@peter1138>no
14:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12839 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Allocate temporary engine data when loading GRFs as needed instead of statically.
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14:21<Gedemon>lol
14:21<yorick>ah, another change
14:21<yorick>which will probably break it from then unless he updates
14:32-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz]
14:37<Gedemon>yep, I'll wait then :)
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14:59<Eddi|zuHause2>it's most likely part of the patch
15:09<Tefad>Sacro!
15:09<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2!
15:09<Eddi|zuHause2>Eddi!
15:09<dih>me!
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>haha ;p
15:10<dih>poor Bjarni
15:10<dih>:-P
15:10*dih pitties the fool
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>it's gonozal's fault even
15:11<Eddi|zuHause2>and then he disappears
15:12*yorick !
15:12<yorick>Gonozal disappeared ;(
15:12<yorick>@seen Gonozal_VIII
15:12<@DorpsGek>yorick: Gonozal_VIII was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 3 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Gonozal_VIII> still nobody here
15:12<yorick>nooooo
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15:13<yorick>4 weeks...that's like a month
15:13<cjk>rounded, yes :>
15:13<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: wasn't actually
15:13<dih>@whoami
15:13<@DorpsGek>dih: I don't recognize you.
15:14<dih>@whoami
15:14<@DorpsGek>dih: dih
15:14<dih>:-)
15:14<yorick>noo
15:14<yorick>even DorpsGek knows you
15:15<Eddi|zuHause2>means it took you a month to even notice that he's gone
15:16<yorick>well...I was away for a whole week
15:16<yorick>so it took me three weeks
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15:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12840 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_event_types.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r12838): incorrect comment
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15:24<dih>sunday roest ^^
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15:25<Roest>^ ^
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15:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12841 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_industry.cpp ai_industry.hpp ai_industry.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add: function to test whether an industry is built on water/has a heliport/dock.
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15:55<Roest>hmm why does w->height = 14 + num_active *12; work and ResizeWindow(w, 0, num_active * 12); not
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15:57<Alberth>Roest: First is absolute, 2nd is relative ?
15:58<Roest>that's right
15:58<Roest>but the window is initialized with a height of 14, so both commands should do the same
15:58<Roest>but the resize is glitchy :)
15:59<Lakie>Not really.
15:59<Lakie>It just expects you give it the absoule new sizes.
15:59<Lakie>not relative ones most likely.
16:00<@peter1138>nope
16:00<Alberth>window.cpp near line 1227 says otherwise
16:00<Roest>y delta y-size of changed window
16:00<@peter1138>did you set the window dirty afterward?
16:00<Roest>yes
16:01<@peter1138>hmm, actually i'm thinking of resizewindowforwidget :o
16:01<Roest>anyway w-height = works well, though i thought the ResizeWindow method wouldbe the cleaner way
16:02<@peter1138>yeah, resizewindow is delta
16:03<Roest>i'm posting the new patch in a sec, so you can for yourself if interested
16:03<Roest>can see*
16:04<Alberth>maybe you should also call the window event handler?
16:04<Alberth>see line 1464 window.cpp
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16:06<Roest>posted the patch, it's bettergraphs, the line in question is in graph_gui.cpp line 206
16:10<Roest>Alberth: line 1464 in window.cpp is empty :)
16:10<Alberth>well, search for WE_RESIZE :)
16:10<Alberth>or ResizeWindow()
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16:12<@Bjarni>why are everybody working on windows tonight?
16:13<mynetdude>?
16:13*Bjarni is looking at the autoreplace window
16:13<@Bjarni>and it looks like somebody else looks at windows as well
16:13<Roest>not me
16:14<Roest>i just took an abandoned patch, stole some code from belugas and pretend i did something
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16:14*Bjarni makes note that Roest tries to take credit for other patch writers
16:14<Tefad>hehehe
16:15<Wolf01|Blind>'night
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16:15<dragonhorseboy>hey
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16:15<Roest>actually i'm not, i even pm'd the original author and he's happxy i continue with it
16:16<Roest>i don't why i'm doing it tho, i hate working on someone elses code
16:16<mynetdude>do any of you even play OTTD?
16:16<mynetdude>or do you all just fiddle/code it?
16:17<Roest>not recently, i find it more fun to fiddle with the code lately
16:17<mynetdude>aha
16:17<@peter1138>that is a big window
16:17<Alberth>only for testing :)
16:17<Roest>peter1138: sizte does matter
16:20<mynetdude>any of you good with signals within OTTD?
16:20<Roest>they love me
16:20<cjk>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_Flag_Signaling_System
16:20<@Belugas>[16:16] <Roest> not recently, i find it more fun to fiddle with the code lately <--- so accurate :D
16:21<cjk>it is accurate for a lot of games
16:21<dragonhorseboy>mynetdude...some but I'm more liking of it in ttdp instead (well one clue: pbs? ;) )
16:21<Roest>get yapp you ho
16:21<mynetdude>uh I have no idea what all this is, PBS, YAPP, YAPF, etc I know they have something to do with how the AI behaves
16:22<Roest>they do?
16:22<Tefad>wtf ai
16:22<Alberth>the first is a TLA, the others are FLA's
16:22<mynetdude>err at least thats what I understand as far as YAPF??
16:23<mynetdude>like I said I have no clue
16:23<cjk>PCMCIA!
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16:23<@peter1138>SLA?
16:23<mynetdude>I guess I'll have to go the hard way to find out thanks though
16:23<mynetdude>poof
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16:23<Alberth>peter1138: obviously :)
16:25<dragonhorseboy>^-^
16:25<Alberth>nobody any patience anymore?
16:26<Roest>lol
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16:31<Roest>what to do, what to do
16:37<Rubidium>http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?order=id&project=1&tasks=&string=&type=1&sev=&dev=&due=&cat=&status=&order2=&sort=&sort2=&date=0&project=1&sort=desc&order2=&sort2=desc <- start fixing bugs from the bottom up
16:38<Roest>that would require to have a clue
16:39<Roest>how do people find these bugs, i never see any when i play
16:44<De_Ghosty>cuz they are crazy like that
16:44<De_Ghosty>lol
16:44<Roest>there's not one nice bug on that list
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16:45<Alberth>Roest: With your patch, Company Performance Grow rate doesn't scale nicely; all graph are at the bottom
16:46<Alberth>Since I made two of those bugs: Mostly by accident
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16:50<mynetdude>There are plenty of reading materials including the wiki on signals, OTTD, and so forth... what I'd like to point out though is the info about signals in OTTD on the wiki is a bit confusing everybody talks about "one way" "priority" etc.. OTTD only has a few signal types: exit, entry, combination, one way and double signals... I left because either A) I'm too dense to not read, which I did or B) you'd rather not help newbies
16:50<mynetdude>Does anybody have tips on signals? what is all this PBS/YAPP stuff?
16:51<@peter1138>pbs/yapp is irrelevant
16:51<Rubidium>PBS is not in the version you are using, so irrelevant
16:51<Rubidium>priority can be made out of exit, entry and combination signals, but that's pretty complex to do
16:51<@peter1138>one-way shouldn't confuse anyone though
16:51<mynetdude>I have the OTTD 0.6.0
16:51<mynetdude>Rubidium indeed
16:52<mynetdude>well in a sense I understand one ways... but not exactly
16:52<mynetdude>obviously you wouldn't use a one way on a complex or dual direction junction
16:52<@peter1138>sure you would
16:52<mynetdude>I would presume one ways are more appropriate for station sidings and sidings?
16:53<ln>where are the station signs drawn?
16:53<@peter1138>one-ways are appropriate for dual-track lines
16:53<mynetdude>peter1138 why? if you have a junction going 4-5 different ways... a one way signal won't work
16:53<@peter1138>neither will a two-way... you'll get blockages
16:53<Rubidium>ln: viewport.cpp
16:54<Roest>hmm alberth, not exactly sure about that, maybe there is no growth?
16:54<mynetdude>well if I had a visual way to understand how/what each signal controls that would help
16:54<@peter1138>http://www.transporttycoon.net/junctions
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16:55<@peter1138>probably best to start http://www.transporttycoon.net/rail1
16:55<Alberth>Roest: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=89877
16:56-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:56<ln>Rubidium: thanks
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16:57<Roest>doesnt exist anymore
16:57<cjk>peter1138: should not that be all in the wiki? :)
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16:58<@peter1138>why? it's there...
16:58<Alberth>Roest: Can I send you a file?
16:58<cjk>peter1138: just the pictures
16:59<Roest>sure
17:00<mynetdude>peter1138 I did read both of those pages you linked
17:00<mynetdude>before I came here of course
17:00<Roest>just hope this shitty irc client can do it hehe
17:00<Alberth>otherwise I can post in the better graphs thread
17:01<Roest>can you pm it on the forums?
17:02<ln>which approach would make more sense: 1) make a distinction between bus and tram stops internally, or 2) leave them mostly as they are, select icons to draw by checking if the station has road and/or tracks in the tile?
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17:02<Alberth>you should have it
17:02<Roest>hmm which setting is the little percentage numbers for loading trains, i cant find it, or is it from some patch?
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17:02<+glx>loading indicators?
17:03<+glx>check the transparency gui
17:03<Roest>yea
17:03<Roest>oh that was it
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17:05<@peter1138>mynetdude: just those two? there's a lot more pages there, heh
17:05<Alberth>mynetdude: What are you missing with these pictures?
17:05<+glx>Roest: and it's also in interface patch settings
17:05<mynetdude>peter1138 well I did click on each of the junction pics to reveal more
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17:05<mynetdude>well I don't know...
17:05<mynetdude>seems like I would want to use two way signals... but there is more to it than just that
17:06<mynetdude>I have tried to tell trains to use certain waypoints, and it ignores them
17:06<mynetdude>in the past 48hrs I have been toying with OTTD to understand it
17:06<Roest>Alberth: ok that's a bit strange, it doesnt do that for me
17:07<Roest>Alberth: is that all companies in that pic, or did you filter one out that has better groth?
17:08<Alberth>all afaik. I can send you a save game
17:09<Alberth>maybe it happens when you have no negative values?
17:09<Roest>k
17:10<Alberth>?
17:10<Roest>[23:09] <Alberth> all afaik. I can send you a save game
17:10<Roest>go ahead please ^^
17:13<Alberth>done
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17:15<Roest>ok i see what you mean
17:17<Alberth>mynetdude: one thing you could do is post a savegame to the forums, and ask for comment/improvements on how to achieve what you want
17:19<Alberth>Roest: all the others seem ok
17:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12842 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1604]: scale message history by map size
17:19<Roest>problem from what i see is, for some it scales correctly and some not
17:21<mynetdude>Alberth yeah I'm looking for my screenie I took and I can't find it
17:21<mynetdude>I read that the screenies/savegames are saved relative to where the .cfg is saved and I can't find the .cfg yet
17:21<Roest>^ ^
17:21<Roest>windows?
17:22<mynetdude>yes
17:22<Roest>my documents/ottd
17:22<mynetdude>I was wondering about that
17:22<mynetdude>I wasn't sure if it was smart enough :P
17:23<Alberth>mynetdude: One of the problems is that we don't understand why the pictures are not clear to new players. Makes it kind of difficult to improve on them
17:25<mynetdude>when you mean two way, are you implying that the signal is on both sides of a single track?
17:25<mynetdude>meaning a signal facing each direction upon a single track
17:25<Alberth>yes
17:26<mynetdude>ah so I COULD use a one way signal to control which way trains go on a particular track?
17:26<mynetdude>so if I wanted westbound only on the north track and eastbound on the south track I would need one way signals and places for them to switch when turning around
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17:28<Alberth>yes, that's how the majority of players build tracks here
17:29<Alberth>where 'places for them to switch when turning around' is usually at a station where you pickup or deliver cargo
17:29<dragonhorseboy>alberth..heh I seem to be the smaller group that always build more of individual lines alone instead ^-^
17:29<dragonhorseboy>I found it much easier to manage traffics and train upgrades like that for some reason
17:30<Alberth>I was just talking about having 2 single direction tracks, not about whether these are all connected. BTW I also usually play with a lot of seperate tracks.
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17:31<Roest>Alberth: thos AIs in your game are kinda funny
17:31<dragonhorseboy>alberth...heh well yeah often (partially thanks to grf wagon speeds) I have raw and final production lines completely seperated ^-^
17:31<dragonhorseboy>80km/h sugar verus 120km/h food for example
17:32<dragonhorseboy>makes it easier to lump traffics onto either because they have the traffic space to spare .. compared to if I had tried lump both onto a single line
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17:32<Roest>mynetdude: get a build with yapp, then you need only one signal type
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17:33<Alberth>I find it more fun to keep them together, and then have a double track in both directions where they can jump between. I haven't yet quite mastered how to do that though. Needs much more practice time ;)
17:33<dragonhorseboy>heh
17:34<Alberth>I usually play with realistic speedup/drag(?), so trains with cargo are already much slower than without
17:36<Alberth>Roest: Haven't noticed; was running a time table experiment with buses
17:37<Roest>i havent understood timetables yet
17:38<@peter1138>Alberth: cargo weight affects "non-realistic" acceleration too
17:40<Alberth>Ah, then it is another one.... ah, 'freight multiplier' set to 10
17:41<Alberth>s/freight/weight/
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17:43<dragonhorseboy>alberth I never bothered with that
17:43<dragonhorseboy>certain small engines seem to get too difficult to even use with it anywhere outside 1x ^-^
17:44<Roest>you starting in 1920?
17:45<dragonhorseboy>roest..nope
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17:45<Alberth>I like it in the sense that you need to compensate for it in the rail tracks, eg put a double track up a mountain. (probably because I place signals quite far away from each other, usualy at least 10-15 tiles)
17:47<Roest>nice
17:47<dragonhorseboy>roest...for example...
17:48<Roest>gues you're not servicing a dual coal mine station with both at 1000+ a month
17:48<dragonhorseboy>90km/h @ 700hp @ 84kN @ introduced 1942
17:48<Tefad>add more engines to compensate for weight
17:48<Alberth>Roest: You mean the long yellow AI roads in the north?
17:48<@peter1138>i read that as 'dual core mine station' :o
17:48<Tefad>haha
17:48<dragonhorseboy>thats to show you an example...if the multiplier was 2x or more that railcar would barely even get past 50-60km/h at all which is not good
17:49<Roest>the yellow rail track
17:49<@peter1138>dragonhorseboy: seems like you like the game easy... freight multiplier 1x, george's over capacitied 4LV...
17:49<Roest>and the red airport south west
17:49<Roest>far away from the town
17:49<dragonhorseboy>peter..nope...I mean whats the use of purchasing the railmotor with just one single trailer if it can't even get at least 3/4 of its speed out? :p
17:49<Roest>peter1138: i like the game easy too
17:50<dragonhorseboy>the real ones actually hauled two trailers at 90km/h top
17:50<mynetdude>back, was alittle busy
17:50<@peter1138>dragonhorseboy: non or 'realistic' acceleration?
17:50<Roest>i create maps in the scenario editor and level them to one height, because i hat steps
17:50<dragonhorseboy>this is what I find a bit ironic about trying to fit real trains into the game's physics
17:50<dragonhorseboy>peter.. relastic (and in ttdp its set as 3333 for speed&handling)
17:51<mynetdude>http://www.thenetdude.com/myttd/myottd.png <<<< I'm having a problem figuring out what kind of signals to put here
17:51<mynetdude>alittle hard to put realism in such an old game with basic stuff
17:51<mynetdude>it seems
17:51<Roest>omg he said old
17:52<dragonhorseboy>roest..heh I noticed that too :p
17:52<mynetdude>I did, whats wrong?
17:52<mynetdude>though I LIKE the game :D
17:52<mynetdude>locomotion seems like another game I'd like too
17:52<Roest>probably some ninjas on the way to your house by now
17:53<@peter1138>you've got double-track so use one-ways
17:53<mynetdude>haha Roest my brother is one, he'll defend me :D
17:53<mynetdude>so two ways are better for single track/sidings
17:54<Roest>nice choice for company color btw, you like pink?
17:54<mynetdude>even though I have double track, what if I have say 2 trains
17:54<mynetdude>Roest no, thats what the game gave me so I'm just using the color
17:55<mynetdude>(yes I know it can be changed)
17:55<mynetdude>but I have restarted like 25 times
17:55<Roest>game knows you
17:55<mynetdude>hah
17:55<mynetdude>well anyway... say I have three trains
17:56-!-Nite [~anonym@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
17:56<mynetdude>each station has two platforms, if I use one ways and the track he is on already has a train in, then I will want that train to pick the free platform
17:56<mynetdude>so I would have to allow the train to switch, so I suppose this is where the entry/exit signals come into play?
17:56<Nite>anyone having brutal desync problems with 606 ?
17:56<Alberth>you solve that locally at the station
17:56<Nite>ups 060
17:57<mynetdude>Alberth how?
17:57<Roest>Nite: vanilla 0.6.0?
17:57<mynetdude>one way signals keep trains going in one direction per track
17:57<Alberth>http://www.transporttycoon.net/viewjunc?img=images/junctions/double_track_basic_station
17:58<Alberth>bottom line is an ingoing line, top one is outgoing
17:58<Roest>mynetdude: the wiki has some articles for station entrances and junctions
17:58<@peter1138>mynetdude: http://fuzzle.org/o/signal.png
17:58<Roest>it's a pretty good read
17:58<Nite>no - newgrf stuffed 060
17:58<@peter1138>(yes, i moved some track)
17:58<mynetdude>no pic there
17:59<Roest>peter1138: you're playing with an awful resolution
17:59<Nite>same are always: ukrs & planeset
17:59<dragonhorseboy>roest..doesn't look like it to me
18:00<mynetdude>peter1138 wow you're fast, and you're good at manipulating what I just created
18:00<Alberth>years and years of training :)
18:00<Roest>Nite: 0.6.0 is pretty stable, must be something with your net config
18:01<mynetdude>I understand that clearly a small X junction at the station
18:01<Roest>mynetdude: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Railway_stations
18:01<Nite>well it works smooth vanilla so i think its more a newgrf problem - i didnt change my connection
18:02<Alberth>I'd also connect both incoming lines together and both outgoing lines together
18:02<Nite>and it was running very well on 053
18:02*dragonhorseboy has had no clue wherever the cfg file even is ever since like 0.5.3 or so too :/
18:02<@peter1138>probably because 0.5.3 doesn't support a lot of the stuff that 0.6.0 does
18:02<dragonhorseboy>at least thankgod most of the network and grf items can be set from in-game menus
18:03<Roest>Nite: i'm a grf and patch whore myself and dont experience desyncs, maybe just one or two a night
18:03<Alberth>mynetdude: ie remove the bottom bridge and connect both lines together
18:04<Nite>i expierience desiyn ond "peter's ukrs" as sooon as the game unpauses - i can watch paused game as spectator.
18:04*Sacro cuddles Bjarni tightly
18:04<dragonhorseboy>nite...I noticed that, no idea why
18:05<Nite>so you got it 2?
18:05-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [wrong move]
18:05-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:05<Sacro>Bjarni: i enjoyed it:(
18:06<Roest>bjarni's just playing hard to get
18:06<dragonhorseboy>nite...yeah even peter seem to have some issue at that time too
18:06<Nite>(same fx on "brienettas" which is down now)
18:06<Roest>oh it's probably the driving on the wrong side thing
18:06<Sacro>Roest: he usually does
18:07<dragonhorseboy>hmm which of just one curious station question
18:07<dragonhorseboy>how many of you have through platforms that can serve traffic in both directions?
18:08<Nite>i use them but dunno in which game u are anyways
18:08<Roest>my city stations are usually terminus and the industry stations one way roro
18:09<dragonhorseboy>I always wish I could show these station layouts to some nice people but the problem is either 1. they're not in game by then or 2. is in some silly server configuration that wouldn't let me traffic the station the way I want to
18:09<mynetdude>hey thanks for the help all
18:09<dragonhorseboy>go figure :p
18:09<Nite>which game are u in now? (ill join)
18:09<Nite>(if 060)
18:09<Roest>i never have have a client that matches any of these server revs
18:10<mynetdude>Alberth, how do you mean remove the bridge? I tried that and couldn't do it due to the akward slope
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18:10<dragonhorseboy>none actually...just waiting for someone to come online probably about a hour later for us to resume the private game we've been playing tho
18:10<Nite>would come online to watch some nice stations.
18:11<dragonhorseboy>nite heh well dunno about the stations but if you can grab two grfs I guess I could let you see the paused game :p
18:12<mynetdude>Nite watching doesn't sound like a bad idea
18:12<mynetdude>dragonhorseboy you have to have the grfs to see the custom stuff?
18:12<mynetdude>even if you are just watching, the game doesn't download it?
18:13<mynetdude>hey Alberth, you still around? :)
18:14<Nite>could well be i already have those newgrfs - but without server name no game.
18:14<Roest>you could also download some savegames from the ottdcoop guys, they are pretty educating
18:14<Alberth>more or less, should go to bed
18:15<Alberth>not sure I understand that you cannot remove the bridge
18:15<Sacro>DON'T REMOVE THE BRIDGE ><
18:15<Sacro>the islands will drift apart
18:15<mynetdude>Nite well I realize that, but what I am asking is to see the custom grfs one must have it even if it is hosted by someone else?
18:16<mynetdude>Alberth sure I can remove the bridge, but the terrain does not permit easy integration with the lines
18:16<Roest>sacro don't worry there's still the anchor
18:16<mynetdude>lol Roest we talking about ships now? :D
18:17<Nite>afaik you must dl all your newgrfs by hand.
18:17<mynetdude>though I do like the C turn going from the bridge
18:17<De_Ghosty>you guys know who john coulton is right?
18:17<mynetdude>Nite alright cool, ty :)
18:17<Nite>but you can have a look which ones are used on a server.
18:18<mynetdude>yeah you go to the openttd.org website I think and you can see what the servers are using
18:18<Nite>you can see it ingame
18:18<Roest>get that packages and chances are you will have all grfs needed http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF
18:18<mynetdude>even better
18:18<mynetdude>I got some GRFs just haven't even started installing them yet
18:19<Nite>the "newgrf setting" button to the right
18:19<Alberth>mynetdude: couldn't you make a 45 turn two tiles from the station, and go down-hill at the side?
18:19<Nite>you are more copying them than installing.
18:20<mynetdude>so this openttdcoop package has everything?
18:20<Nite>any game for me to join?
18:20<Nite>guess os for teh coop server.
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18:20<mynetdude>well the game won't let me make angled tracks on slopped terrain
18:20-!-KritiK_ [~Maxim@78.107.160.84] has joined #openttd
18:21<mynetdude>well it will but not correctly
18:21<De_Ghosty>damn
18:21<Alberth>mynetdude: everything is at grfcrawler (http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/)
18:21<De_Ghosty>when do we get diagonal roads?
18:21<Roest>not everything :P
18:21<mynetdude>oh yeah I went there grfcrawler...
18:22<mynetdude>they had some great stuff there
18:22<mynetdude>but whats the difference between openttdcoop vs the ones at grfcrawler?
18:22<Patrick`_>De_Ghosty: screw them, I want diagonal bridges
18:22<Patrick`_>and diagonal rails traversing a linear slope
18:22<mynetdude>Patrick`_ actually diagnal bridges could come in handy
18:23<Patrick`_>in fact, climbing an incline at an angle is how it's done in real life
18:23<Roest>the coop packages has everything you need in one big package, while at grf crawler you have have to singlehandly download oneby one
18:23<Alberth>just turn all your rail tracks 45 degrees :P
18:23<Nite>i think this whole newgrf thing is ridicioulous anyways ...
18:23<mynetdude>Patrick`_ what do u mean?
18:23<Nite>why all this complicated serching by hand ...
18:24<mynetdude>Roest but didn't you just say coop doesn't have everything?
18:24<Roest>no i didnt
18:24<Roest>well they dont have everything, that's for sure
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18:24<Nite>newgrfs just being uploaded to a server where they are distributed ingame will be great.
18:24<Roest>but they have enough
18:24<mynetdude>oh ok
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18:24<dragonhorseboy>sorry was afk...
18:25<mynetdude>Nite kinda like built in grf sharing within the game?
18:25<mynetdude>ok time for me to see if I can do these signals
18:25<dragonhorseboy>here's why I don't like many of the newgrf servers -- where the hell do I even download older grfs when the server doesn't have its own grf pack?
18:25<Nite>coop has every newgrf for the coopserver, isnt that obvious?
18:25<Patrick`_>the map that you load off a server is bigger than most grfs
18:25<dragonhorseboy>(not even in version 5 through 7 of the openttd grfpack neither)
18:25<Patrick`_>so I don't see why
18:26<mynetdude>well I'll just start over... I've been doing just that the last 3 days
18:26<Roest>the grfs i use are still 10+ MB zipped
18:26<Nite>yeah kind of - like map downloading but with newgrfs
18:26<Alberth>you only have to distribute the URL of a grf ingame
18:26<Nite>... still i know a restart is needd to activate them.
18:26<@peter1138>restart?
18:26<mynetdude>Nite which I am sure it could do on its own and then reconnect when done?
18:27<Nite>no url would be needed
18:27<mynetdude>peter1138 no not the PC, the game
18:27<@peter1138>why restart?
18:27<mynetdude>peter1138 so the GRF can work?
18:27<@peter1138>that needs no restart
18:27*mynetdude doesn't know
18:27<Nite>there is no url needed for maps either ...
18:28<Nite>yust new contetn downloaded automatically is a great gamefeature in so many games ... bla bla
18:28<Alberth>just click away the warnings that loading grf midgame may crash the game :P
18:29<mynetdude>in your opinion, which is better when starting out? single track or double track?
18:29<Rubidium>Nite: yeah... and George/Pikka making their NewGRFs not work in OpenTTD because the 'great gamefeature' is an even greater gamefeature, I guess
18:29<Nite>yeah but you have to have the newgrfs first.
18:29<Sacro>mynetdude: snigle
18:30<mynetdude>assuming the towns will let you expand at a later date... or you plant a lot of trees
18:30<@peter1138>single with passing places :D
18:30<Tefad>wtf at not working in openttd?
18:30<mynetdude>peter1138 sidings... yeah that would work
18:30<dragonhorseboy>peter..as long as you don't get as crooky as the AI's are :p
18:30<mynetdude>Tefad I never understood that, so I'll pretend I did
18:30<Nite>think they worked fine in 053 ...
18:30<Tefad>well i know what GRFs are and i've used them
18:31<Tefad>i'm just confused as to why someone would purposefully make them not work in ottd
18:31<Nite>me 2
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18:32<+glx>Tefad: canset was explicitely disabled on OTTD until we implement some features
18:33<Tefad>hmm k
18:33<Nite>wow i dont get desync on petersukrs now ...
18:34<Roest>grats
18:35<mynetdude>lolz
18:35<mynetdude>well I'm understanding now, and now I understand that comment... yeah
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18:44<Nite>is peter surks your server peter1138?
18:44<Roest>peter sucks?
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18:45<Nite>no "peter's ukrs" ;-)
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18:50<dragonhorseboy>hmm *decides to take a look to see if the desync thing is gone*
18:50<Nite>i got no desync now
18:50<Nite>but other players joining did
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19:02<Nite>desinceria here ... <:-(
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19:04<Nite>cya
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19:12<mynetdude>this is an awesome place to hang out.. thanks folks... **goes back to playing and trying hard to break things*
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19:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: bjarni * r12843 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp):
19:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Feature [FS#1945]: The autoreplace window is now resizable in both directions
19:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: The code to open this window is also unified for all vehicle types
19:20<mynetdude>alright, since I am no longer using double track so therefore I have no more need for one way signals... now the question is for you experts... how would you setup signals for a single line with siding? do I setup two ways for all areas needing to be protected?
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19:25<@peter1138>hehn
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19:25<@peter1138>flow control obviously isn't natural for you ;)
19:26<@Bjarni>mynetdude: are you a train dispatcher in real life?
19:26*Sacro is
19:27<@Bjarni>simsig isn't real life
19:27<Sacro>pfft
19:27<@peter1138>_________d_________d________
19:27<@peter1138> \p_________p/
19:27<@peter1138>
19:27<@peter1138>d = signal facing <
19:27<@peter1138>p = signal facing >
19:27<@peter1138>simple
19:28<mynetdude>haha whoever asked me if I was a rail dispatcher... kind of a silly question if I can't get my flow straight
19:29<@Bjarni>that sounds like a a good qualification
19:29<@Bjarni>at least for some rail companies
19:29<@Bjarni>:P
19:29<mynetdude>peter1138 yes but lets say there are no trains going in the direction of the d signals why would I want my train to take the siding with p signals if it can just go straight?
19:30<mynetdude>or the real question is... how long should my sidings be?
19:30<@Bjarni>long enough to keep the longest train between the two signals
19:30<DaleStan>Long enough to fit all but one of your trains on either side.
19:30<@peter1138>because when you use two-way signals you'll eventually end up with two trains on either side, stuck with nowhere to go
19:31<@Bjarni><mynetdude> peter1138 yes but lets say there are no trains going in the direction of the d signals why would I want my train to take the siding with p signals if it can just go straight? <-- you are asking for something so advanced that the game can't handle it
19:31<DaleStan>Maybe all but two (on that track system, that is), but no shorter than that.
19:31<mynetdude>but thats silly... I have been on trains where we'd be on a single mainline with a siding on each side of us
19:31<@Bjarni>me too
19:31<@peter1138>yes, but that's real life
19:31<@Bjarni>but then it's human controlled
19:31<mynetdude>true
19:31<@Bjarni>this needs a computer to make the decision for you
19:32<@Bjarni>and you don't want to allow the computer to use a minute each time a train has to pass a switch
19:32<@Bjarni>you want it to be fast
19:32<@Bjarni>hence somewhat simple
19:33<mynetdude>well then a dual track mainline would be better
19:33<@Bjarni>also... complex signals needs complex code and we didn't write that ;)
19:33<mynetdude>of course
19:37<mynetdude>so let me guess... I can't have say a two way pre entry signal and then two way signals on the L and R sidings with the mainline in the middle and then again on the other end and then an exit signal, will the game work that way?
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19:38<mynetdude>what I meant to ask, not about siding legnth but how often do I need a siding? just before each station?
19:39<mynetdude>guess I'll try that and see what happens
19:39<@Bjarni>you need two tracks everywhere you think trains would benefit from being able to meet each other
19:40<mynetdude>well then I guess I'd be better off planning a two track system when I first start a new game
19:41<mynetdude>and then as I add new trains I can upgrade stations/tracks to allow more traffic
19:42<@Bjarni>generally I tend to build one track lines in the beginning and then as money allows and traffic increases I make more and more places trains can meet until they end up expanding into each other and I have a double tracked line
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19:57<mynetdude>I think the setup I have works
19:58<Sacro>Bjarni: shouldn't we be going to bed soon
19:59-!-SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:59<@Bjarni>damn
19:59<@Bjarni>I was thinking about heading for bed but now I can't
20:00<@Bjarni>people would just get the wrong idea
20:00<Sacro>Why not?
20:00<@Bjarni>that is... people like you
20:01<@Bjarni>the difference between you and me is that I commit code and you commit people
20:01<Sacro>opposites attract
20:02-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [wrong]
20:02*Bjarni hides
20:02-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@62.243.161.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:02<mynetdude>lolz
20:02-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:02<Sacro>I thought you loved me :'(
20:03*UFO64 blinks
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20:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12844 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_house.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix: the industry tick trigger should only be triggered once every 256 ticks, not every tick... Also bail out of the triggers a little earlier if you know they are not going to happen anyway.
20:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12845 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Change: use YAPF for fairly old savegames from before YAPF was introduced.
20:26<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
20:26<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
20:26<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 24 minutes and 16 seconds ago: * Bjarni hides
20:28<mynetdude>ok I'm having alittle problem with this signal theory setup www.thenetdude.com/myttd/somesig.png
20:29<mynetdude>the signal works as intended, but as soon as the train has to stop it reverses direction immediately instead of waiting
20:29<Sacro>Hmm, strange
20:29<Sacro>why are you using presignals anyway?
20:30<mynetdude>presig as the yellow one you mean?
20:30<Sacro>Yeha
20:30<mynetdude>so if I take that out and convert the grey ones to normal semaphores the concept will still work?
20:31<mynetdude>I'm not sure why I'm using presig... thought I had to have that in order for the design to work, but I can see how not needing a presig is probably better
20:31<Sacro>hmm, they wouldn't queue
20:31<Sacro>but them is there a reason for the 1-3 split
20:31<mynetdude>what do u mean they wouldn't que where?
20:31<mynetdude>???
20:31<Sacro>it's hard to tell without seeing a bigger layout
20:31<mynetdude>ok so take the presigs out... because any train that passes the exit sigs will force all sigs to drop
20:32<mynetdude>ok I think I know what to do here
20:34<mynetdude>yep presig was the problem
20:34<mynetdude>guess I don't know how to use presigs properly yet
20:34<Sacro>you use an entrance and an exit
20:34<Sacro>that's about it
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20:37<mynetdude>oic what I did wrong
20:37<mynetdude>the presig was being used "after" the ext rather than before
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21:46<mynetdude>wtf... my crates of goods is disappearing faster than my train can pick it up unless another train is picking it up but it has no capabilities to even do it
21:49<mynetdude>sadly its not a train, oh wells
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22:18<mynetdude>if anybody is interested or wants to induldge... I'm stumped on how to setup signals for this type of junction http://www.thenetdude.com/myttd/feeders.png
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23:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: richk * r12846 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
23:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Added clearer support for seaplanes.
23:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Seaplane is now defined on bits 2 & 3 of Prop 0x17 of Action0Planes.
23:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Seaplanes can only be built at airports they can use. Some seaplanes have dual land/sea capability; this is supported.
23:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Updated seaplaneport.grf to reflect new functionality.
23:18<mynetdude>you made a seaplane grf?
23:18<mynetdude>can seaplanes land on water somehow?
23:18<mynetdude>I have added some GRFs... this is pretty neat stuff
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23:40<Eddi|zuHause3>seaplanes would be able to land on specially designed seaports
23:40<Eddi|zuHause3>they are not in the main development version yet
23:41<Eddi|zuHause3>this is just an experimental branch
23:45<Eddi|zuHause3>as for the signalling above: you do not want one-way signals on a single track line
23:47<Eddi|zuHause3>one way signals are used to force direction of traffic on lines with more than one track
23:50<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause3, yeah I know I don't want one ways... I just put that there until I could figure out how to keep trains off the single track while a train sits at one of (or both) of the feeder stations
23:50<Eddi|zuHause3>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2021.%20Sep%201956.png <- like on this picture, where all tracks are doubled
23:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not sure what you want to achieve there
23:52<mynetdude>alittle hard to explain... but let me try
23:52<Eddi|zuHause3>probably you need to move the signal on the bottom two tiles back, behind the switch
23:52<mynetdude>are you currently looking at the screenshot?
23:52<mynetdude>uh, I thought I did that?
23:52<mynetdude>what bottom two tiles?
23:53<Eddi|zuHause3>go on, explain your stuff, i am just guessing here
23:53<mynetdude>I think I need to take another screenie, you're not seeing a part I wanted you to see... hang on
23:54<mynetdude>you can't see the other switches
23:54<mynetdude>err signals
23:54<Eddi|zuHause3>especially i can't see trains going anywhere
23:54<Eddi|zuHause3>like, a situation which you want to avoid happening
23:55<Eddi|zuHause3>PS: press Ctrl+S to make a screenshot
23:55<mynetdude>well I won't be able to show that, but I can definetely point out a few things so gimme a few
---Logclosed Wed Apr 23 00:00:02 2008