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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-26

---Logopened Sat Apr 26 00:00:49 2008
---Daychanged Sat Apr 26 2008
00:00<mynetdude>it doesn't? I thought it meant Transport Tycoon... at least thats where the game came from?
00:01<Sacro>it's where it came from
00:01<Sacro>but "Transport Tycoon" is a copyrighted name
00:01<mynetdude>I was just getting to that
00:01<Sacro>as is "Transport Tycoon Deluxe"
00:01<Sacro>so we call it "OpenTTD"
00:01<Sacro>which doesn't stand for anything
00:04<mynetdude>I don't see how porting it to ipod is a breach of license, if he was paid to put it on there for someone then yes I can see a breach there
00:04<Sacro>it depends actually
00:05<Sacro>if it gets released as an official iPhone app then it'd be a breach of the GPL
00:05<Sacro>but then IANAL
00:05<mynetdude>well certainly thats a good point, as long as it isn't released as an official app
00:05<mynetdude>yeah its on an iPhone as the title of the vid says
00:09<mynetdude>ok thats odd.. I see the ottd pattern background... but whats the opaque white space?
00:12-!-BiO-HaZaRd is now known as Mr_HaZaRd
00:12<Sacro>there's a box where you can go to other pages
00:12<Sacro>but where ot start
00:12<mynetdude>I'll refresh
00:15<mynetdude>nothing there works for me all I see is the ottd screen and a blank white box that is opaque... anyway pointless website
00:17<mynetdude>maybe? It doesn't even work for me
00:17<mynetdude>what browser do you use?
00:19<mynetdude>ah that would explain it
00:24<mynetdude>alright, you're right simcity classic looks nothing like TTD but the graphic style is from the same era
00:27<mynetdude>yeah I saw that, I went to the page on my other PC... it said "a cake is a lie?"
00:27<mynetdude>anyway I managed to visit the site
00:29<mynetdude>well playing ottd on a small pda like that is extremely difficult
00:33<mynetdude>I can kinda tell he had some difficulty
00:34<mynetdude>although you can play simcity on a nintendo DS
00:34<Sacro>i'm tired :(*
00:34<mynetdude>I was too and still kind of am
00:35<Sacro>tis 5:30 am
00:36<mynetdude>oh wow... you're on the other side of the world
00:43<Sacro>goodnight mynetdude
00:44<mynetdude>nite :)
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04:22<Alberth>Roest: nice dilbert reference :)
04:22<Roest>it just fit
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04:24<Roest>i'm haunted by that draakon guy
04:27<Roest>hmm what's wrong about this picture: Gonozal, I can try to get the current version of your Patchpack up-to-date to current trunk - but I'm not that good in coding in C++...
04:29<Alberth>wish him good luck
04:30<Roest>he'll need it, so much has changed since 12180, he can rewrite these patches froms cratch, guess that has a higher success chance
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05:56<Alberth>What is the semantics of a PointDimension? (in particular vs the semantics of a Rect). Both are defined in src/core/geometry_type.hpp, and PointDimension is only used in src/texteff.cpp
05:58<Rubidium>x,y + width, height vs x0, y0, x1, y1
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05:59<Rubidium>(x, y, x + width, y + height) == (x0, y0, x1, y1)
06:01<Alberth>got it, tnx
06:03<@peter1138>so one is relative and the other is absolute
06:04<Alberth>only for the computation of the 2nd point
06:07<Roest>Members browsing this forum: MSN [Bot], Roest, Yahoo [Bot]
06:08<Roest>maybe someone should suggest diagonal roads then
06:09<Rubidium>I've got no problem with that
06:10<Rubidium>where I have a problem with is others flaming me for not wanting to implement their suggestions
06:11<Roest>yea, at people like this i always wonder what's their age is, and if they understood the concept of open source projects
06:12<Rubidium>prolly midlife-crisis-age
06:12<Roest>think so? i'd rather say teen
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06:13<Patrick`_>they have an idea, it's good, anyone who doesn't see that is worthy of scorn
06:13<Rubidium>he says he's a "FORMER programmer"
06:13<Patrick`_>not enough life experience to appreciate how to interact with other people vaguely skilled in the arts
06:13<Patrick`_>that's something a teen would throw in there if he'd done qbasic in primary
06:14<Roest>i'm a former lotsa things
06:26<@peter1138>hmm? it's not even an original idea... heh
06:26<Rubidium>Did I go to far?
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06:30<Alberth>Rubidium: You were letting off steam. I would probably have stopped responding to him a long time ago. I like the concept they use in c.l.p. newsgroup: don't feed the trolls
06:32<Alberth>peter1138: I would be highly surprised if it was
06:35<Roest>rubidium: i'd probably just said a short fuck off :)
06:36<Rubidium>that would be swearing
06:36<Rubidium>I mostly stated facts in that post ;)
06:36<Roest>but apropriate in that case
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06:38<dih>Rubidium: i like your post :-
06:39<Yorick>my flyspray permissions list says: "modify own tasks: Yes", but I can't find a way to do it
06:41<dih>acl featuer is implemented, editing own tasts is not :-D
06:46<Yorick>shouldn't it be updated?
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06:51<Yorick>@seen KUDr
06:51<@DorpsGek>Yorick: KUDr was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <KUDr> good
06:52<Yorick>he has left us :(
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06:55<Yorick>fs#1890 closed?
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07:03<Rubidium>Yorick: not that I'm aware of
07:04<Yorick>the comments say he's fixed it
07:05<Rubidium>haven't seen that yet
07:06<planetmaker>@seen Gonz*
07:06<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: I haven't seen anyone matching Gonz*.
07:07<Yorick>@seen Gonoz*
07:07<@DorpsGek>Yorick: Gonoz* could be Gonozal_VIII (5 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 58 minutes, and 9 seconds ago), Gonozal (8 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 23 minutes, and 57 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIIIe (10 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 7 minutes, and 48 seconds ago), Gonozal_ (18 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, 28 minutes, and 53 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIII_ (18 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 50 minutes, and 51 seconds ago), or Gonozal_ping_timeout (28 weeks, 0 (1 more message)
07:07<@DorpsGek>Yorick: days, 10 hours, 16 minutes, and 58 seconds ago)
07:07<planetmaker>@seen Gon*
07:07<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Gon* could be GoneWacko (1 week, 3 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 18 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIII (5 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 58 minutes, and 53 seconds ago), Gonozal (8 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes, and 41 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIIIe (10 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes, and 32 seconds ago), Gonozal_ (18 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, 29 minutes, and 37 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIII_ (18 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, (1 more message)
07:07<Yorick>@more planetmaker
07:07<@DorpsGek>Yorick: 51 minutes, and 35 seconds ago), gono_ping_timeout (18 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 32 minutes, and 5 seconds ago), gono_nick (20 weeks, 0 days, 7 hours, 41 minutes, and 17 seconds ago), Gonoozal_VIII (20 weeks, 4 days, 23 hours, 24 minutes, and 37 seconds ago), or Gonozal_ping_timeout (28 weeks, 0 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes, and 42 seconds ago)
07:08<planetmaker>or rather :( seeing the results...
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08:20<Roest>that's no drum solo
08:20<dih>but it's a way of promoting it :-P
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08:22<Roest>peter1138: i looked at your patch for half an hour now and there's no reaosn it doesnt work :/
08:23<Roest>so wtf
08:31<@peter1138>yeah there is
08:32<Roest>well i guess i know what it is
08:35<Roest>nope, not that
08:39<Roest>if you know what it is, please tell me, this is mind boggling
08:49-!-Disto [] has joined #openttd
08:49<Disto>Anyone around?
08:50<Disto>Is there any kind of dedicated server for OTTD?
08:50<Disto>Having trouble with lag in big games from the client
08:50<Roest>as in a program or as the ~200 currently online?
08:51<Eddi|zuHause3>dedicated server will not help with client performance
08:51<Disto>Yeah it's the server which is slow
08:52-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
08:53<Disto>I take it there is no way to slow down time ingame either, of years
08:53<Disto>Or be able to pause the year counter without pausing the game
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08:54<Disto>Thanks so much :)
08:54<Disto>Your a life saver
08:56<Eddi|zuHause3>r11060... that is quite a while ago...
08:57<Disto>There is a new one at the end of the thread
08:57<Roest>and it's in my patchpack btw
08:59<Disto>Roest, does you patch pack mean that all patches are enabled or they can be enabled/disabled as you go
08:59<Roest>some patches are enabled by default, some have options to turnt hem off
08:59<+glx>most are switchable
09:00<+glx>Roest: I guess savegame are incompatible with trunk
09:00<Roest>yes, do to yapp and the changes in daylength
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09:01<dih>whois Guest621
09:01<dih>with a slash - sorry
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09:01<Roest>and i guess my shapetown patch isn't clean for that matter either, but since yapp and daylength already broke savegames i didnt care to fix it :)
09:04<Disto>Question: Does the daylength patch means that more is produced per month or is the game just slowed down
09:04<Roest>have to ask someone who's actually playing that pack/patch
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09:08<Eddi|zuHause3>Disto: there are some options to configure that, but it's nowhere near complete
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10:10<Disto>Hey, the 0.6.0 installer, what build number was that
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10:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i second that question :p
10:11<Roest>the people need to know!
10:13<Disto>I compiled the daylength patch and set it to the compatible install of OTTD but it says Version Mismatch on the server list
10:14<Disto>Does that mean everyone will need the patch?
10:14<Rubidium>as is required with most patches
10:14*Disto sighs.
10:15<Rubidium>0.6.0 should only be played with unmodified 0.6.0 binaries
10:15<Rubidium>otherwise you'll get trouble *all* over the place
10:15<Rubidium>where the most annoying thing would be the desyncs
10:16<Rubidium>that can kick you within a few seconds from the server
10:16<dih>hehe :-)
10:16<dih>the joy
10:17<@peter1138>although 0.6.0 can manage that by itself :D
10:19<Rubidium>true ;)
10:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12906 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp players.cpp): -Fix: vehicle groups, engine replacement rules and player/company names were not properly reset/freed after bankrupt (before new player start)
10:21<Roest>free company names!
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10:29<planetmaker>:) Got some for sale?
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10:32<SmatZ>they were just lost
10:34<planetmaker>oh, now there're antique company names for sale as they were just re-found? :P
10:34<SmatZ>no, they are lost forever :-P
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11:11<Roest>alberth my savior
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11:12<Alberth>let's see whether it helps :)
11:13<Roest>well gotta go, hopefully my lack of response will transmit the right message
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11:19<mynetdude|away>hey SmatZ, remember we were talking about the property purchase feature to be used to buy multiple tiles instead of one tile at a time? What if there was a ttdpatch option in the configs or whatever where all the neat on/off configs are available to select whether multi-tile buying is on or off that way :)
11:20-!-mynetdude|away is now known as mynetdude
11:20<SmatZ>mynetdude: there are too many options already
11:21<Eddi|zuHause3>afaik there's already a patch for that
11:21<Eddi|zuHause3>but it was decided against
11:24<mynetdude>there's a patch for it? Is it still available
11:24<mynetdude>yeah so there's too many options doesn't mean one has to use it all or care that its all there
11:25<mynetdude>actually I wonder why we even have property purchase in the game anyway when you can just slap some road/rail tiles in random places
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11:30<Eddi|zuHause3>it's probably horribly outdated
11:32<Ammler>mynetdude: is a clientside patch, iirc
11:34<mynetdude>well the feature is pointless, like I said you can randomly dump a bunch of road/rail sprites over land you want
11:34<mynetdude>but if you were really going to use it, in single player the feature is so useless because you can't select large areas
11:35-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
11:35<Ammler>hmm, try with Grassy Knoll GRF
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11:37<mynetdude>Ammler whats that?
11:37<Ammler>check the link after
11:38<mynetdude>oic cool :)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause3>@openttd commit 5828
11:41<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Commit by richk :: r5828 /branches/MiniIN (5 files in 2 dirs) (2006-08-09 22:21:06 UTC)
11:41<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: [MiniIN]: [DragBuyingLand]: Drag/drop buying land with the purchase tool. Does not work in multiplayer to deter nasty play.
11:41<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Many thanks to Wolf01 for patch.
11:43<Eddi|zuHause3>there is your patch if you really need it ;)
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11:44<Eddi|zuHause3>good luck updating it 7000 revisions ;)
11:46<mynetdude>I know there is a problem using multi-tiled land purchase to prevent unfair multiplayer play
11:46<mynetdude>I still think it should be an optional config you can turn on/off for that, because not all multiplayers are against using multi-tile purchase and besides whats to stop someone from using railroad sprites or whatever
11:51<Eddi|zuHause3>it has been discussed many times, the feature is not going in
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13:21<nicfer>hmmm what about a fork of ottd that mixes it with some features from simcity?
13:21<nicfer>something like a hybrid
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>great original idea, we should totally do that!!
13:22*dih forks Sacro
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>i wonder why nobody ever thought about that before
13:23*teeg looks for this mysterious person "nobody"
13:23<dih>because these devs are... Rubidium help me, what was the word that nitwhit used?
13:25<Vikthor>dih: If we are thinking the same person then Rubidium is negative and Belugas sarcastic :p
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13:28*Sacro forks dih from behind
13:29<dih>i knew you liked doing things that way!!!!!
13:29<teeg>now now kids, no running around with kitchen utensils. :(
13:29<Sacro>ah so Bjarni told you
13:29<dih>Vikthor: that kid was so out of place :-P
13:30<teeg>I take it you guys are talking about that sirx-whatchamacall'im
13:30<dih>no - Bjarni only mentioned liking the 'receiving end'
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>you two should really get a room
14:01<@Bjarni>Sacro again?
14:02<Eddi|zuHause3>how'd you guess? :p
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14:03-!-dih was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [stop spreading lies]
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14:03<Sacro>Bjarni: you know you love me
14:03-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Sacro@*.karoo.KCOM.COM] by Bjarni
14:03-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [no I don't]
14:03<ooo4tom>that wasn't very nice lol
14:04<@Bjarni>he started it
14:04-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Sacro@*.karoo.KCOM.COM] by peter1138
14:04-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Sacro@*.karoo.KCOM.COM] by Bjarni
14:04<ooo4tom>fair play lol but some way to end it
14:05<@Bjarni>let's see how long it takes him to notice
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14:08<Sacro>you did last night :(
14:09<@Bjarni>last night I was cursing at poor road signs and dense traffic
14:09<Eddi|zuHause3>I kill you!
14:09<@Bjarni>aka I should drive to somewhere in Copenhagen where I had never gone to by car before
14:09<@Bjarni>that didn't go well :(
14:10<ooo4tom>aww road trips are awesome, you can't beat a good road trip once in awhile !!
14:11<@Bjarni>I did obey the traffic laws so I would pass a driving test if needed
14:11<Eddi|zuHause3>how often did you pass a driving test already?
14:12<@Bjarni>so far I passed 100% of those I attended
14:12<@Bjarni>which is 1 out of 1
14:12<ooo4tom>:s i thought you only needed to pass one, well thats the case in the UK, or am i not following the conversation to well ? :s
14:13<@Bjarni>you aren't following the conversation
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14:14<@Bjarni>Sacro claimed that I failed because I ended up in the wrong lane and had to turn when I was supposed not to turn
14:15<@Bjarni>stupid road.... no signs before changing one lane into a right turn lane :s
14:15<@Bjarni>and once it changed it wasn't possible or even legal to change lane
14:16-!-__S4M43L__ [] has joined #openttd
14:16<ooo4tom>I'm having bit of a brain fart here, just downloaded todays nightly unpacked, added needed GRFs and cant run the app any ideas ?
14:17<@Bjarni>because you didn't tell why it failed to run
14:17<@Bjarni>I mean it will likely give some kind of error
14:17<ooo4tom> error while loading shared libraries:
14:18<ooo4tom>first time i've ever had that
14:18<@Bjarni>never seen that error before
14:19<@Bjarni>and previous nightly builds works?
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14:20<@Bjarni>you ask for help and then you leave
14:21<ooo4tom>lol sorry
14:21<ooo4tom>i closed the window by mistake
14:21<@Bjarni>now you lost your chance of getting help
14:21<@Bjarni>your computer don't want it :P
14:22<@Bjarni>just kidding
14:22<Sacro>ooo4tom: ignore Bjarni, most of us do
14:22-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [then ignore this]
14:22-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:22<Sacro>you see, he kicks me, i ignore him and ret
14:22*mynetdude thinks to self... I know what I'd do if I could code, I like what I do that doesn't involve coding... but anyway with the limited graphics and AI and all that there ought to be "curved" train stations
14:23-!-Vikthor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23<@Bjarni>ooo4tom: could you try one of the old nightly builds again?
14:24<@Bjarni>the problem could be that some library is upgraded on your computer
14:24<@Bjarni>or something like that
14:24<ooo4tom>yeah, still have them installed, and working, doubt that, as i don't allow anything to update
14:25<ooo4tom>i live by a saying, if its not broken don't fix it
14:25<@Bjarni>please test it again
14:25<@Bjarni>just to be sure
14:26<Eddi|zuHause3>but ottd nightly was not broken, obviously :p
14:26<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: it could be but I have no way of telling if that is the case
14:27<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean before he updated ("fixed") it :p
14:27<@Bjarni>so I start by a simple test that could proof/disproof a theory to what could be wrong
14:27<@Bjarni>I thought you were ignoring me
14:27<Eddi|zuHause3>what is expat anyway? i thought it had something to do with xml
14:27<Sacro>Bjarni: why would i do that?
14:28<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> what is expat anyway? <-- that's a good question.... one that deserves to be answered
14:29-!-governor [] has joined #openttd
14:29<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: you have been assigned to finding that answer
14:29*Bjarni bows for the governor
14:29<governor>I will be the one bowing
14:29<Eddi|zuHause3>i have given my answer
14:29<governor>Is there a way to replace vehicles with the same type of vehicle?
14:29<governor>All my fruit trucks are old and I want them to be replaced as the same vehicle
14:29<governor>how do I go about it?
14:30<governor>I know how to replace them with other vehicles
14:30<@Bjarni>I have already fooled governor into working for me :D
14:30<Eddi|zuHause3>"you bow to noone"
14:30<governor>All that is in the replace list is the older truck
14:30<governor>and it sucks!
14:30<Eddi|zuHause3>not with autoreplace, with autorenew
14:30<@Bjarni>look up autorenew on the wiki
14:32<governor>maybe there should be a bigger reference to autorenew on the autoreplace page
14:32<ooo4tom>error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>you said that before
14:33-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>but i have
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>or more specifically, 1.5.2
14:34<Zuu>dih: what hapened to your Fair Play server?
14:34<governor>This autorenew is a lie, would I have to start a new game for it to take effect?
14:34<@Bjarni><governor> maybe there should be a bigger reference to autorenew on the autoreplace page <-- then add it
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>no, just wait for the vehicles to go to depot
14:34<@Bjarni><governor> This autorenew is a lie, would I have to start a new game for it to take effect? <-- no
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>or send them manually
14:34<governor>i have sent them there many times!
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>also, you need to have enough money
14:34<governor>i have 58 mil >_>
14:34<dih>Zuu: nothing?
14:35<Eddi|zuHause3>you sure the setting is enabled?
14:35<dih>take FP stuff to #openttdFairPlay please :-)
14:35<governor>configure patches
14:35<governor>vehicles autorenew vehicle when it gets old
14:35<governor>it has a green box next to it
14:35<@Bjarni>governor: you open the patch settings with the tool button in the left of the toolbar
14:35<Eddi|zuHause3>that should do it
14:36<@Bjarni>and there you can enable autorenew while the game is running
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14:36<governor>i am embaressed now!
14:36<@Bjarni>I intend to make a nicer GUI for this but it's not the top priority
14:36<Eddi|zuHause3>that's the least you could do :p
14:37<governor>i was only aware of the configure patches on the title screen
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14:37<@Bjarni>if you change the settings ingame when it affects the game only
14:38<@Bjarni>if you change from the title menu then when you load a game the settings in the game will overrule whatever you just entered in the title screen
14:38<@Bjarni> <governor> i am embaressed now! <-- looks like you are ready to start working for me
14:39<governor>only if you pay me in PC components
14:39<@Bjarni>you are richer than me :(
14:39<@Bjarni>I can't pay you
14:39<De_Ghosty>yes you can
14:40<De_Ghosty>you can pay him personal servicies..........
14:40<governor>gross no homo
14:40<Sacro>Bjarni is homo
14:40<@Bjarni>he wanted PC components (damn I nearly wrote "hardware")
14:40*Sacro admires Bjarni's hardware
14:41<De_Ghosty>like capacitors?
14:41<governor>naughty bits
14:42<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm out of here...
14:42<ooo4tom>i'm lost, the size of openttd 0.6 is 1.9 and tonights nightly is 2.9 could this be the issue ?
14:42<@Bjarni>you didn't answer your own question yet
14:42<Eddi|zuHause3>yes i did
14:42<@Bjarni>what is the size of last night's nightly?
14:43<@Bjarni>(presuming it worked last night)
14:43<Eddi|zuHause3>there might be something wrong with the compilefarm if it links to when it should be linking to
14:44<@peter1138>yay, 1953t train :D
14:44*peter1138 watches at ottd's realistic acceleration behaves badly
14:45<governor>Have the AI companies been worth 2 dollars since the start of time?
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14:45<Eddi|zuHause3>expat is most likely a dependency of the font stuff
14:45-!-__S4M43L__ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:46<ooo4tom>i have 0.6.0 working, i'll just stick with nightly builds in windows, sounds like a plan to me lol
14:46<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, all companies start with a value of 1£
14:46<Eddi|zuHause3>(minimum granularity of currencies)
14:46<governor>its 2005 right now and this AI has no vehicles
14:46<governor>they haven't had any since 1996
14:47<Eddi|zuHause3>company value is company assets + cash - loan
14:47<Eddi|zuHause3>and if that is <= 0, it gets set to 1£
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15:00<Eddi|zuHause3># Wer ist Roger?
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3># Wer ist Roger?!?
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15:10<mynetdude>hey whats up with this? no helicopters in 2047?
15:11<Eddi|zuHause3>you can try to use a planeset
15:12<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i haven't done planes in years
15:12-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
15:13<mynetdude>um I only have a helipad, and oilrigs won't accept planes I don't think?
15:13<mynetdude>I can't even replace my helicopter its 2047 no new ones exist
15:13-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:14<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean a newgrf from the aircraft category
15:14<Roujin>hey devs. don't hate me, but.. increase map array please?
15:15<SmatZ>Roujin: in what way?
15:15<SmatZ>you can add bytes to _me
15:15<SmatZ>if you want
15:16<Roujin>... for a specific type of tile, or for all tiles?
15:16<Eddi|zuHause3>all tiles must have the same size
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>unless you want to make major changes to the map layout
15:17<Roujin>I thought you guys are strictly against increasing the map array size?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>nobody said that
15:17<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause3 well sure I could add a new aircraft grf but not for an existing game :(
15:18<mynetdude>whats map array?
15:18<Fingon>governor : the standard AI really sucks, but with NoAI you can make your own
15:18<Ammler>mynetdude: you can
15:18<Fingon>check out the NoAI branch, it has WrightAI in there by default, builds planes pretty well
15:18<Ammler>but don't complain, if it doesn't work
15:18<governor>my AI would be worse then normal lol
15:18<Fingon>haha :p
15:19<Roujin>mynetdude: there's a patch option that vehicles never disappear from the buying menu
15:19<Ammler>but plansets should be no problem
15:19<mynetdude>Roujin, is it supported in 060?
15:19<Eddi|zuHause3>might require "resetengines" to take effect
15:20<Eddi|zuHause3>mynetdude: it has been there for ages
15:20<mynetdude>howcome Chris Sawyer didn't think of helicopters in 2040? Wasn't his game supposed to end in 2051 for scoring, he should have left helos on
15:21<mynetdude>guess I"ll have to look at the patch features again
15:21<Ammler>most time, its no prolbem do "update" from default grf to newgrf, reverse its worse...
15:21<Roujin>mynetdude: search for patch option "Vehicles never expire", enable it, go to the console, type in "resetengines" (without "")
15:22*Sacro looks at OpenBVE
15:22<Roujin>this should enable you to build helicopters again, without adding a newgrf ingame (which could mean messing everything up=
15:25<Roujin>i'm off, see you
15:25-!-Roujin [] has quit [Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> <-]
15:26<mynetdude>how do I "search" for this option, I know I can exit the game
15:28<Ammler>[21:21] <Roujin> mynetdude: search for patch option "Vehicles never expire", enable it, go to the console, type in "resetengines" (without "") <-- in the patch setting window - tab vehicle
15:29<mynetdude>oh ok :)
15:30<mynetdude>well I'm almost done with this game, after this one I want to install as many newgrfs I'm going to need/want if thats even possible
15:37<mynetdude>is there a limit on how many grfs I can have active at once?
15:37<Sacro>more than 3
15:37<Sacro>but less than a million
15:37<mynetdude>lolz so I could have 30-100 then? :)
15:38<Sacro>should be alright
15:38<Sacro>submit your list in writing to Belugas first though
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15:38<mynetdude>don't think I will have a million grfs :P
15:38-!-svippery [] has joined #openttd
15:38<@peter1138>62 or some such
15:39<mynetdude>62 is the limit? probably more than enough
15:43<SmatZ>@seen KUDr
15:43<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: KUDr was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 18 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <KUDr> good
15:48<mynetdude>just over 6 months ago
15:50<@peter1138>how can you have heavy expansion a map that size?
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15:52<mynetdude>I don't know
15:52<mynetdude>trains were gridlocking and not enough pax were getting picked up
15:52<@peter1138>(i love small maps)
15:52<mynetdude>small maps are a good way to "learn" things
15:52<@peter1138>well they're challenging too
15:55<@peter1138>can't use the trick of sending things miles to get loads of money
15:58<@Bjarni>anybody here who wants to help developing a great patch?
15:58<@Bjarni>aka I need testers :)
15:59<@Bjarni> <-- apply this one and try to autoreplace all sorts of different combos (I'm specially interested in getting the "failure to replace" code tested)
15:59<Fingon>small maps are *very* challenging for AI :p
16:00<@Bjarni>everything is hard for the AI
16:00<Fingon>nah it all depends how you write it
16:00<Fingon>AI is good at multitasking
16:00<@Bjarni>no it's not
16:00<@Bjarni>at least not our AI
16:01<Fingon>true, the standard AI is worthless
16:01<@Bjarni>Fingon: you are in luck
16:01<@Bjarni>you have just been promoted to beta tester :-D
16:02<@Bjarni>get a room you two
16:02<@Bjarni>but before doing that go download that diff and test it well
16:02<@Bjarni>Sacro should do so too
16:03<Fingon>and drop the "too"
16:03<Sacro>Bjarni: i should what?
16:03<mynetdude>yeah the problem with extremely large maps is if you want to send a train far away you'd have to use waypoints and it would have to use that same track each time
16:03<@Bjarni>ok clearly Fingon isn't up to the task
16:03<@Bjarni>Sacro: <-- apply this one and try to autoreplace all sorts of different combos (I'm specially interested in getting the "failure to replace" code tested)
16:04<@Bjarni>this is all part of my master plan to get autoreplace to work way better with all the special newGRF rules
16:05<@Bjarni>but I want to get this well tested before committing it
16:06<@Bjarni>Sacro: btw you are great at testing my patches
16:06<@Bjarni>because clearly you and I DON'T think alike
16:07<@Bjarni>Sacro: if you test this then there might appear some boobs in the game
16:07<mynetdude>hmm 63 saves... in nearly 2.5MB
16:07<mynetdude>just for the same map
16:08<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: That's a good thing.
16:08<mynetdude>I was gonna say isn't there anybody who does think alike (very rare)
16:09<Ammler>Bjarni: with support for automatic vehicle upgrade from NewGRFs?
16:10<Disto>Are there any mods which help with the upgrade from one vehicle type to another?
16:11<mynetdude>Disto that'd be cool also
16:11<Disto>Ala Railways to Monorails
16:11<Disto>Large quantity of trains take a lot of time
16:12<Ammler>Disto: there was a patch around in the forums
16:12<mynetdude>ah I was thinking more like being able to upgrade to another engine type (faster, diesel/electric, etc
16:12<Ammler>mynetdude: did you just read the IRC?
16:13<Ammler>read back about 20mins
16:13<mynetdude>hmm? he was just saying upgrade types from rail to monorail, maglev kind of stuff
16:13<mynetdude>well I saw the stuff about autoreplace if thats what you eman
16:14-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
16:14<mynetdude>does anybody know if the oil fired power station replaces coal fired power stations?
16:15<mynetdude>err I mean the oil fired power station newgrf
16:15<mynetdude>guess I'll find out soon enough
16:16<Disto>mynetdude you can do that already
16:17<Disto>What you can't do is replace across different types
16:17<@Bjarni><Ammler> Bjarni: with support for automatic vehicle upgrade from NewGRFs? <--- no you will still control it like you do now but right now certain newGRF will make the replacement fail while I intent to make it work
16:17<@Bjarni><Prof_Frink> Bjarni: That's a good thing. <-- boobs or better autoreplace?
16:17<@Bjarni>or both? :)
16:18<Disto>mynetdude, go into your train menu/thing and look at the bottom, there is a "Manage List" and that will allow you to replace trains
16:19<@Bjarni>are there anybody actually testing my patch?
16:19<Rubidium>Vikthor: no, I'm an idiot and my character is worse than that of a dumb oxes (according to that person)
16:20<Vikthor>oh yes that was the next post
16:20<teeg>Rubidium: the guy who was bitching about diagonal roads in my thread?
16:21<Vikthor>if he had done that just to get attention I guess he unfortunately succeeded
16:21-!-UFO64 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:22<Rubidium>ah well, he just reprioritises diagonal roads for *all* devs quite negatively
16:23<@Bjarni>personally he managed to move my opinion from "I'm not coding it" to "I'm not coding it"
16:23<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... my grfcodec appears to be broken...
16:24<@Bjarni>aren't there anybody at all testing my patch???
16:24<Eddi|zuHause3>why would anybody do that?
16:24<Rubidium>well, for me it's "I'm not coding it" to "I'm not going consider at any point in time that I'm not coding it"
16:26<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause3 is this the aircraft grf you mentioned?
16:26<mynetdude>14 pages long...
16:26<Sacro>Bjarni: that'd require compiling and spre time
16:26<Eddi|zuHause3>one of them, yes
16:26<Eddi|zuHause3>there's another one called "planeset"
16:26<Eddi|zuHause3>and a russian one that i don't remember the name of
16:27<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> why would anybody do that? <-- basically it would be nice to find the bugs in it before it's committed and spoils the nightly builds
16:27<@Bjarni>that is if there are any bugs
16:28<@Bjarni>but if you guys don't test it then I might just end up committing it and then you test it if you use nightly builds or your own checkouts
16:28*Sacro is in C# mode at the moment
16:28<@Bjarni>which one do you prefer if it turns out to be buggy? ;)
16:28<@Bjarni>Sacro: you don't have to read the code, just test it
16:29<Eddi|zuHause3>spree time?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause3>sounds... dangerous
16:30<Eddi|zuHause3>but can someone explain why my grfcodec is not doing _anything_ when i run it?
16:30<Eddi|zuHause3>not a beep...
16:30<DaleStan>What are you typing on the command line?
16:31<Eddi|zuHause3>grfcodec -e <filename>
16:31<Eddi|zuHause3>grfcodec --help
16:31<Eddi|zuHause3>grfcodec -v
16:31<Eddi|zuHause3>all the things i would expect anything to output
16:31<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause3 is there a grf/file repository other than grfcrawler? Kindof hard to search forums for every file you'd want
16:32<Eddi|zuHause3>what's wrong with grfcrawler?
16:32<mynetdude>didn't know if grfcrawler had everything? nevermind...
16:33<Eddi|zuHause3>DaleStan: i have the (probably old) from the ttdpatch page, and i'm quite sure it worked before
16:38<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause3 it is also my understanding I cannot have more than one of the same type of grf loaded for a game?
16:38<mynetdude>as one or the other might overwrite the slots available, etc
16:38<DaleStan>What does file say about your copy of grfcodec? Any aliases? Any weird things earlier in your path?
16:38<Eddi|zuHause3>some of them yes, others no
16:39<Eddi|zuHause3>"which grfcodec" points to the correct file
16:40-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
16:41<Eddi|zuHause3>the weird thing is that i don't even get an error message
16:43<Ammler>Bjarni: my tests failed
16:44<Ammler>test with dbset, I replaced a diesel ICE with 5 waggon length to ICE3 which can be 4 or 8 length
16:44<Ammler>the engine replaced but no waggon was applied anymore
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16:53<@peter1138>that's a grf problem, nothing to do with autoreplace
16:53<Ammler>I thought, thats the new features of that patch...
16:53-!-raimar2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:54<@peter1138>dbsetxl doesn't restrict that
16:54<@peter1138>so autoreplace won't know it's not allowed
16:54<mynetdude>I noticed there were mention of additional climates/terrains
16:55<mynetdude>4 isn't enough :P
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12907 /branches/0.6/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk r12906:
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Vehicle groups, engine replacement rules and player/company names were not properly reset/freed after bankrupt (r12906)
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Prepare: for 0.6.1-RC1.
16:55<Ammler>mynetdude: there are 2 additional climas
16:55<mynetdude>yeah I just saw that
16:56<mynetdude>yeah Ammler there's Japan and one other
16:56<Ammler>japan is no new clima
16:56<Ammler>well, maybe it is :-)
16:56<mynetdude>Ammler, pretty sure I saw Japan being mentioned as one of them... don't know why Japan isn't a climate
16:57-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:57<Ammler>mynetdude: I had Alpine and Mars in mind.
16:58<mynetdude>now Mars... I'd like to see that
16:58<mynetdude>grfcrawler doesn't seem to have that I don't think??
16:59<@peter1138>alpine, mars, japan, australia, and does tt count? heh
16:59<mynetdude>ah I found Mars
16:59<mynetdude>but Mars is just a toyland conversion
17:00<Ammler>what does it need to not be "a conversion*?
17:00<mynetdude>oh I was thinking it would have its own original look ;)
17:01<Ammler>it has its own look, but not its own sound :-)
17:01<mynetdude>thats not too bad
17:02<mynetdude>I looked for Japan and Australia, not there or I don't know what to look for :)
17:02<mynetdude>hey peter1138 whats tt? temperate?
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>the "mars" look is from the TT - World Editor edition
17:03<@Bjarni>but with toyland sounds >_<
17:03<mynetdude>oh ok tt is toytown, that is already with ottd afaik it has been there a long time
17:03<@peter1138>transport tycoon
17:03<@peter1138>the original set
17:04<mynetdude>TT had its own climate/terrain which is not the same as the ones on ottd?
17:04<@peter1138>just another temperate really though
17:04<mynetdude>hmm is that one available for ottd?
17:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12908 /tags/0.6.1-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
17:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Release: 0.6.1-RC1.
17:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Lots of bugfixes and solved some performance regressions.
17:05<Ammler>Are there still GRFs _not_ for OTTD?
17:06<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, everything from eis_os ;)
17:06<mynetdude>lolz I didn't know there were non ottd grf
17:06<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: thats a legal lack not feature lack
17:07<@peter1138>loads of features are not supported
17:07<@Bjarni><Ammler> the engine replaced but no waggon was applied anymore <-- I just tried that... it asserted. Did you disable asserts?
17:07<Ammler>Bjarni: nope
17:08<Ammler>they are activated per default?
17:08<@Bjarni>they should be in the trunk
17:08<Prof_Frink>peter1138: You mean like <AutospaceCarriagesLikeTTWE />
17:11<Ammler>Bjarni: I also tried with remove waggons, thought, it would truncate it to right lengths
17:13<Ammler>Bjarni: now it assert here too
17:13<Ammler>openttd: /home/marcel/bin/ottd/trunk/src/vehicle.cpp:2720: Vehicle* Vehicle::RestoreBackupVehicle(): Assertion `!dest->IsValid()' failed.
17:14<Ammler>differece was, first time the train was driving in depot->replaced and left
17:14<Eddi|zuHause3>if anyone cares, i have compiled a grf that makes a helicopter available in 2050
17:14<Ammler>now, the train was already in the depot and I hit the yellow replace in the depot window
17:15<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: default?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause3> <- sourcecode
17:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i should maybe post a new version of the compiler...
17:16<Ammler>yeah :-)
17:16<Eddi|zuHause3>Newgrf Description Language
17:16<mynetdude>odd question, does anybody know if ottd works with xfire?
17:17<SmatZ>mynetdude: yes, according to tt-forums thread
17:17*mynetdude wants to keep track of how much time I play ottd and show off to people what I am playing and get them to play too
17:17<Eddi|zuHause3>the old version could only do trains
17:17<@Bjarni>Ammler: <-- now try the very same replace with this diff
17:18<@Bjarni>now it detects failure to move wagons as failure to autoreplace
17:19<Ammler>hmm, needs to recompile almost the whole source :-)
17:19<@Bjarni>I know :/
17:19<@Bjarni>and I only made changes to autoreplace_cmd.cpp
17:20*dih slaps Bjarni
17:20<dih>why not?
17:20<@Bjarni>I'm not into that
17:21<dih>Sacro said you were
17:21<@Bjarni>Sacro appears to be so... go beat him up instead
17:22<@peter1138>so you didn't change order_func.h?
17:22<@peter1138>or player_base.h
17:22<@peter1138>or vehicle_gui.h
17:22<@peter1138>or loads of other headers
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume between v4 and v5
17:23<@Bjarni>peter1138: not between v4 and v5
17:23<Ammler>Bjarni: can't you replace 2 different engines to same engine?
17:23<@Bjarni>you can replace EngineID 0 to 5 and 2 to 5 if you like
17:24<@Bjarni>or did you mean something else?
17:24<Ammler>no, I meant that
17:25<@Bjarni>there is no restrictions against doing so
17:25<Ammler>well, after replacing, GUI says, I have 65k of the old train
17:25<@Bjarni>but I recall something about a restriction against replacing A to B and B to A at the same time
17:25<Ammler>something overflow now
17:25<Ammler>Bjarni: same behavier like with 0.6.0
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>DaleStan: what i always wanted to ask, these 3 "header" lines in the nfo files that say "do not modify", to what can i change these lines [because, obviously, my files will not be generated by grfcodec]
17:26<@Bjarni>oh crap
17:26<Ammler>I can't replace to "strange" trains anymore
17:26<@Bjarni>now I know what went wrong :s
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>DaleStan: PS: i checked out latest revision of grfcodec and compiled myself, that works
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17:26<@Bjarni>with the engine count, that is
17:27<@Bjarni><Ammler> I can't replace to "strange" trains anymore <--- explain
17:27<Ammler>the problem is the count
17:27<Ammler>I can't replace at all
17:27<Ammler>if the count is 65k
17:28<@Bjarni>it should refuse your attempt to replace if it detects that it can't replace correctly
17:28<@Bjarni>and I know what goes wrong and where with the count
17:28<@Bjarni>now the question is how to fix it the right way
17:29<@peter1138>hmm, listening to an album on shuffle kind of defeats the point :o
17:29<Ammler>well, the other thing, should be instead of refuse, allow and "round" to corrct length :-)
17:30<Prof_Frink>peter1138: Not as bad as listening to a song on shuffle
17:30<@Bjarni>first I want this feature to work and commit it. Then I will add nice features to get it working
17:30<@Bjarni>the diff is big enough as it is
17:30<Eddi|zuHause3>what if it's too great of a song?
17:30<Prof_Frink>How d'ya mean?
17:31<@peter1138>me ponders implementing callback 34 just to mess up bjarnis work ;)
17:32<Eddi|zuHause3># Eryn echuiannen
17:32<Eddi|zuHause3># i ngelaidh dagrar
17:32<Eddi|zuHause3># ristar thyn, cúa tawar
17:32<Prof_Frink>Bless you.
17:33<Ammler>just realized VT-11 is a nice train
17:34<Eddi|zuHause3>is that the TEE one?
17:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12909 /branches/0.6/src/stdafx.h: [0.6] -Fix (r12866): missing #defines
17:34<Ammler>a Diesel, TTE?
17:35<Eddi|zuHause3>Trans Europ Express
17:35<@Bjarni>TEE is a nice train but a bit dated
17:35<Eddi|zuHause3>most certainly "VT" is a diesel ;)
17:35<@peter1138>just like a class 165 is
17:36<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: wiki says yes
17:36<Eddi|zuHause3>my question was about which one...
17:37<Ammler>oh BR601?
17:37<Ammler>it looks like VT-11 from DBSet
17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>6xx are diesel self-driving trains
17:39<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, that is from later times, when they abolished the TEE system, and "degraded" the engines to normal duty
17:42<DaleStan>Eddi|zuHause3: Currently, the first line must start with "// ", the second with "// (Info version ", and the third may be anything, but will always be ignored. Currently. One change I have floating around will make the third and following header lines of the format "// <key>:<data>"
17:42<Eddi|zuHause3>alright, thanks
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18:06<@Bjarni>Ammler: I fixed the counter (I need to improve speed on the fix though). Did you find anything else?
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18:07<Ammler>Bjarni: wasn't able to test anything else
18:07<Ammler>as I tried to replace, the counter sinked, but it kept to be the old train
18:07<Ammler>and if the train left the depot and returnd, the counter overflowed
18:08<@Bjarni>the problem is that the train did leave (with counter and everything) and was restored in a way that bypassed the counter
18:09<Ammler>if you like I can prove your fixes again
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18:21<Ammler>Bjarni: I have no idea, how far your patch should go
18:22<Ammler>but I can still replace some trains that I have then waggons with "more" or "stop"
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18:24<@peter1138>"that's a grf problem, nothing to do with autoreplace"
18:24<@peter1138>same as last time
18:25<Ammler>last time?
18:25<@peter1138>the first time i said it
18:25<Ammler>but I am not able to replace to IRC anymore
18:26<Eddi|zuHause3>you spent too much time on the former :p
18:26<Ammler>:-) yeah, for sure
18:26<Ammler>like here:
18:27<Ammler>maybe it's possible MB missused a "refit" feature?
18:28<Ammler>sadly, we can't ask him
18:28<Ammler>I meant the different livery
18:28<Eddi|zuHause3>it's a "livery override"
18:28<Eddi|zuHause3>but shouldn't it prevent the train from starting?
18:29<@peter1138>dbsetxl was made before that feature existed
18:29<@peter1138>so it doesn't
18:29<Ammler>well, that might be a bug in newer releases
18:29<Ammler>Iirc in earlier revisions, it did
18:29<Eddi|zuHause3>what did ttdp do when trying to start a train with "more"/"stop" wagons?
18:30<@peter1138>nothing special. 'more' and 'stop' are of course just regular wagon sprites
18:30<DaleStan>It does whatever the start/stop callback tells it to do.
18:31<@Bjarni><Ammler> Bjarni: I have no idea, how far your patch should go <-- right now success is if it can build what it wants to build and can put it in one chain of vehicles only (all wagons are connected)
18:31<@Bjarni>it will not actually test if the vehicle can leave the depot or is stuck with "more" or other newGRF issues
18:31<@Bjarni>basically it's a platform where I can add such checks later
18:33<Ammler>Bjarni: so it should replace without care, if its allowed?
18:33-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
18:33-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:33<Prof_Frink>Nice suicide
18:34<@Bjarni>Ammler: it only checks if it can build the new vehicles and if it can connect them to the train... everything else would be considered planned for future patches
18:35<@Bjarni>basically this patch is mainly about getting back to the original vehicle if the replace fails (read: undo what it already did)
18:35<Ammler>and Bjarni, I need to stop an "old" replace order to allow an other train to replace to the same "new" engine
18:36<@Bjarni>you should be allowed to set up replace orders like you want to
18:36<@Bjarni>except if you construct loops
18:36<Ammler>(means, I can't replace ID5->ID9, if there is a order for replace ID 7->ID9
18:36<@Bjarni>sounds like a new bug
18:36<@Bjarni>it worked the last time I tried that
18:37<Ammler>after I "stopped" ID7->ID9, I can do ID5-ID9
18:38<Ammler>you mean something like ID4->ID5 and ID5->ID9 isn't possible?
18:39<@Bjarni>it is
18:39<@Bjarni>you can't go 4->7->9->4
18:39<@Bjarni>it will not allow 4
18:39<@Bjarni>it will not allow the last arrow
18:39<@Bjarni>but 4->7->9 is allowed
18:45<Eddi|zuHause3>once upon a time, autoreplace didn't work if i had a general rule A->B and in a group a rule A->C, but that might have been fixed
18:49<@Bjarni>I don't recall ever being told about such an issue
18:49<@Bjarni>and I don't think I fixed anything like that
18:51<@Bjarni>anybody around?
18:52<@Bjarni>I just recalled something that happened yesterday.. I was walking from one building at campus to another one and there is some construction work
18:53<@Bjarni>and right when I walked by one of the construction guys said to another construction guy "it's so great when she forces her finger all the way up my ass"
18:53<@Bjarni>I didn't hear anything said before that or later
18:53<@Bjarni>but... wtf????
18:53<@Bjarni>@openttd commit 12066
18:53<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: Commit by belugas :: r12066 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2008-02-05 05:21:02 UTC)
18:53<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: -Codechange: Rename GetBridge for the more common GetBridgeSpec
18:53<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: -Codechange: Remove direct access to the _bridge table in favor of the above mentioned GetBridgeSpec
18:54<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: -Codechange: Rationalize the use of Bridge type pointer
18:54<Eddi|zuHause3>wrong revision ;)
18:54<@Bjarni>@openttd commit 12346
18:54<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: Commit by frosch :: r12346 /trunk/src (autoreplace_cmd.cpp group.h) (2008-03-06 10:39:26 UTC)
18:54<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: -Fix [FS#1748, FS#1825](r9874, r11872): Remove duplicated and inconsistent code wrt. autoreplace with rules in both vehicles' group and ALL_GROUP.
18:56<@Bjarni>looks like a hack was replaced with a simple function call
18:56<@Bjarni>not so much of a hack but manual figuring out what the function can do for you
18:57<@Bjarni>maybe the function wasn't available when the code in question was written
18:58<Ammler>Bjarni: I am not able to replace a ICE-T (Diesel) to a ICE-3
18:59<@Bjarni>is the train valid as an ICE-3 train?
19:00<Ammler>it would be
19:00<Ammler>but does that matter?
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19:00<Ammler>I can replace a BR182 with 6 waggons to a invalid ICE3
19:01<@Bjarni>Karen_: we have all seen it
19:01<@Bjarni>and rumours has it that it was tasty too
19:02<@Bjarni>Ammler: I meant can you build an ICE-3 and then drag all the wagons to it?
19:02<@Bjarni>all at once, that is
19:03<Ammler>yes, I can
19:03<Ammler>but maybe the problem is
19:03<Ammler>ICE-T is dualheaded
19:04<Ammler>so the rear head can't/shouldn't be moved
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19:04<@Bjarni>that shouldn't be a problem
19:05<@Bjarni>I just tested this in a clean trunk
19:05<@Bjarni>it fails there too
19:06<@Bjarni>I think I know why though
19:06<@Bjarni>and it's not a bug in autoreplace but in CmdMoveRailWagon()
19:06<@Bjarni>that conflicts with newGRF rules
19:06-!-Guest621 [~lolman@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:07<Ammler>I do not use autoreplace tool often, sry.
19:07-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:07<@Bjarni>I think it moves the wagons, tests if it's ok and then it moves the rear engine back
19:07<@Bjarni>as a player you don't see the rear engine move
19:08<@Bjarni>but this fooling the player appears not to fool the GRF rules
19:08-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:08<@Bjarni>Karen_: you posted that link once before
19:08<Ammler>Karen_: switch off autopaste :P
19:08<@Bjarni>is there a reason for this?
19:08-!-lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:09<@Bjarni>lolman and Sacro on the same DNS????
19:09*Bjarni prepares to commit lolman
19:10-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
19:10*dih slaps Sacro
19:10<@Bjarni>time for bed
19:11<dih>gnight sir
19:11<@Bjarni>looks like that's what happened to Sacro and lolman already
19:11<Karen_>I am sorrry Barni
19:11<Ammler>dih: the bug at your blog is a "feature"
19:11<Ammler>and not a bug of the grf, for sure
19:12<dih>Ammler: tell umj
19:12<@Bjarni>Karen_: did you have a point in posting the link?
19:12<Ammler>oh :-)
19:12<Ammler>I thought, you answered
19:12<dih>i was told here that it was
19:13<Ammler>they lieed you
19:13<Karen_>Oh, my boss
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19:14<@Bjarni>for the record the cake was for real
19:14<@Bjarni>until TB and company ate it
19:14<@Bjarni>company as in group of people
19:14<@Bjarni>all his visitors
19:15<@Bjarni>they partied to celebrate r10k
19:15<@Bjarni>the cake were ordered from a place where you can order cakes online and you send in a jpg of what you want the top to be
19:15<Ammler>nice idea
19:15<@Bjarni>and then they have a kind of "candy printer" to place it
19:16<@Bjarni>and they looked really funny when it was picked up
19:16<Ammler>any you weren't there?
19:16<@Bjarni>saying something like "have fun at the party YOU are going to" :D
19:16<@Bjarni><Ammler> any you weren't there? <-- it was a normal weekday (students in NL can travel with public transport for free on weekdays)
19:17<@Bjarni>so I was at uni working on a robot
19:17<blathijs>michi_cc: Did you build those win64 binaries?
19:17<blathijs>If so, can you give me an MD5?
19:18<@Bjarni>well if Karen's boss leaves and she returns then you can tell her that the cake is for real
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19:19<Ammler>Karen is a "she"
19:19<+michi_cc>blathijs: 4387dad3084bced590a119128db00e44
19:19<Ammler>well, then I know 3 female TTD players :-)
19:20<blathijs>michi_cc: Thanks
19:20<Ammler>"tell her"
19:22<Prof_Frink>Females? On the internets?
19:22<dih>yes on the internetS
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19:32<dih>as long as you dont start posting links 10 times in a row just like Karen_ did
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19:33<dih>Sacro: you are a poor sod
19:33<dih>needing pictures of that nature
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20:19<mynetdude>Sarco, interesting link there...
20:20<mynetdude>does anybody know if xfire recognizes OTTD?
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20:39<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause2, what does #openttdcoop newgrf have that other newgrfs might already offer or don't err what I'm trying to find out is there any difference between using openttdcoop grfs and others?
20:39<mynetdude>I'm looking at their website now...
20:40<Eddi|zuHause2>they just assembled a package
20:40<Eddi|zuHause2>to ease multiplayer
20:40<mynetdude>ah ok
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20:41<mynetdude>is there any way I could create multiple copies of the same stable install 060 so that I don't have to load/unload grfs all the time?
20:41<mynetdude>the reason I ask is because the grfs are stored in a central location where all copies of the same stable version access the same configs and all
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20:42<Eddi|zuHause2>you can make several links "openttd -c /path/to/config"
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20:43<mynetdude>links, you mean shortcuts?
20:44<mynetdude>each shortcut could access different configs?
20:46<Eddi|zuHause2>also, the game will automatically load the grf you made the savegame with, regardless of config
20:48<mynetdude>oh really? Thats handy too... so I don't have to quite remember to reload all the grfs I used
20:49<mynetdude>actually I don't mind using the same .cfg for the two different stable versions, the grfs are not stored centrally as I thought they are stored in the /data folder of each stable copy so that helps too... I just want a generic blank copy for multiplaying with people who do not use grfs
20:51<Eddi|zuHause2>the game will also load the grfs of the multiplayer game, you just have to have them accessible
20:54<mynetdude>I hate to ask... I guess I will search/find out but I noticed that sometimes cities will say they accept automobiles but I never see auto factories or autoracks available for trains or trucks
20:54<mynetdude>I saw that in some of the grfs you can get autoracks, but what about auto factory industries?
20:55<mynetdude>heck I can think of lots of new industries to add to the game just a matter of time, feasibility and demand for it
20:55<mynetdude>oh and of course a willing coder
20:57<mynetdude>like one I'd like to see is a military base or DoD/Military Munitions factory, etc I remember being told the military used to ship (and I think they do once in a great while) tanks, Jeeps/Humvees (except they don't use jeeps anymore) on trains, heck I heard that the shuttle's SRBs are/used to be shipped through the Cheyenne mountains through a tunnel so narrow the SRBs are only as wide as a horse's butt
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21:04<Eddi|zuHause2>vehicle factories are part of the ECS industry scheme
21:05<Eddi|zuHause2>"vehicles" in that case means also tractors for agriculture and heavy machinery for mining
21:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i have not seen a military grf around
21:07<Eddi|zuHause2>it would be kinda difficult to integrate these in the game mechanics, as they would be more like on-demand service instead of continuous "production"
21:09<mynetdude>well not necessarily
21:10<mynetdude>military items need metal and rubber/oil so you transport steel and oil to the military site and out comes their tanks, jeeps, tires, whatever I don't know what all the military sent on trains if they even sent K/C rations and MREs on trains
21:10<mynetdude>but thats all good until 1980... after that most stuff went by air I believe as they do now
21:15<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it's probably different dimensions on a virtually empty country like the USA
21:16<mynetdude>why is that?
21:16<mynetdude>it would be kindof cool to start ttd in the 1890s when the first pioneered railroads began... just for the challenge
21:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean, the USA is two rather heavily populated areas at the east and west coast, and a huge void inbetween
21:16<mynetdude>I can't seem to start the game before 1930
21:17<Eddi|zuHause2>to cross these kind of distances, anything other than air is not really feasible
21:17<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause2 now it is... but not back when the military shipments were needed but then again kinda hard to do the whole USA on a single ttd map
21:18<Eddi|zuHause2>in germany, still a lot of military material is transported by rail
21:18<mynetdude>well thats not the point Eddi|zuHause2, it was done back in the 1950s during WWII and was done for a good number of years at least for 30-40 years before they gradually stopped using rail
21:19<mynetdude>yeah but thats Germany, its much smaller and does not have a major landmass to cross
21:19<Eddi|zuHause2>of course, during WWII that is a whole different story ;)
21:21<mynetdude>well then I'd add the ability to do it from 1945-1975 or so then the industry would go poof
21:22<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, i suppose it would be possible to add military sites that transport military vehicles between them, like banks do
21:23<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean, most of these transports happen from barracks to training sites and back
21:24<mynetdude>that works too
21:24<Eddi|zuHause2>but much more funny than that would be CASTOR transports ;)
21:25<Eddi|zuHause2>once in a blue moon, a nuclear plant wants to transport waste to a storage site
21:25<Eddi|zuHause2>and you'll get protesters along the way, blocking your network
21:25<mynetdude>oooo that'd be fun
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>"once in a blue lagune"... that is still so funny ;)
21:26<mynetdude>nuclear waste transport, we still do it here in the US but not on trains
21:26<mynetdude>and we only do it in select locations I believe on certain "routes"
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it's almost always trains across europe
21:27<mynetdude>probably goes through more rural areas than populated areas if they do
21:27<Eddi|zuHause2>and it's always "temporary storage", because no country wants to actually have the waste
21:27<mynetdude>true, but where do they really put it?
21:28<mynetdude>its gotta go somewhere
21:28<mynetdude>of course nobody wants it, so where does it make its final dumping?
21:28<Eddi|zuHause2>that is an open question ;)
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21:28<mynetdude>well maybe except Iraq
21:28<mynetdude>I wonder if nuclear waste is reusable?
21:29<mynetdude>brb gonna reboot
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21:29<Gekz>theres a reason it's called waste
21:29<Gekz>and its dumped ...
21:29<Gekz>cxiam lacan >_>!
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21:42<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a long reboot :p
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21:47<Gekz>he uses windows Eddi|zuHause2
21:47<Gekz>of course its slow
21:47<Eddi|zuHause2>of course he uses windows, otherwise he would not reboot
21:47<Eddi|zuHause2>there are facilities that do reprocessing of nuclear waste, but they are said produce more nuclear waste than the original input ;)
21:48<Gekz>lol are you serious
21:48<Eddi|zuHause2>it's also the main method to get weapon-capable plutonium
21:48<Gekz>I really dont like nuclear anything
21:48<Gekz>especially nuclear medicine
21:48<Gekz>I hates it
21:48<Eddi|zuHause2>radiation is nothing unnatural
21:48<Gekz>no, but in the quantity it is produced it is
21:49<Eddi|zuHause2>the sun emits nuclear radiation
21:49<Gekz>and the fact it is being used as weapons, it is unnatural
21:49<Gekz>The sun is a homo
21:49<Eddi|zuHause2>most rocks emit nuclear radiation
21:49<Gekz>not enough to cause cancer
21:49<Gekz>or make you die on the spot
21:50<Eddi|zuHause2>cancer has been around since the beginning of mankind
21:50<mynetdude>though there are other kinds of rocks that are not as common known to cause human ailiments I want to say limestone but its not that I don't think
21:51<Eddi|zuHause2>by "rocks" i don't mean pebble beaches ;)
21:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean "rocks" as in "mountain ranges"
21:52<mynetdude>um you mean mountains actually emit nuclear/radiation?
21:52<mynetdude>btw I rebooted because not only was my windows acting up... but because my damn internet is slow
21:53<mynetdude>and usually rebooting solves both problems, not this time my internet is still slow but not as slow as it was
21:53<Eddi|zuHause2>where do you think they get uranium from?
21:54<SmatZ>if rebooting helps to make your internet faster, then you have probably full computer of spyware - maybe your PC is spamming other PCs all around the world
21:54<SmatZ>mynetdude: run netstat to show all your TCP connections
21:54<Eddi|zuHause2>of course they get it from uranium ore that they pull out of mines
21:54<SmatZ>if there are many SMTP connections, then you are a spammer :-)
21:54<mynetdude>lolz no, my computer does not have spyware... I do spyware checks regularly and I just recently reformatted
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21:55<mynetdude>oh yeah I've done that before... ok let me run that
21:55<Eddi|zuHause2>infecting with spyware happens like after 2 seconds of being connected to the net
21:56<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause2 true about that
21:56<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause2 really? That makes no sense, you have to do something to get it connecting to the net itself can't possibly get you spyware
21:56<mynetdude>the second you open your browser for the first time, I would think so that isn't the net
21:56<Eddi|zuHause2>you have windows, it does a lot that you do not know about
21:57<SmatZ>I read somewhere that Windows XP gets infected in in average 20 seconds after connecting to internet
21:57<mynetdude>how do I find SMTP connections?
21:57<mynetdude>Eddi|zuHause2, true it may do a lot but that wouldn't make any sense
21:57<mynetdude>SmatZ how?
21:57<SmatZ>mynetdude: I don't know... I think there should be SMTP or port 25 shown... I don't remember
21:58<mynetdude>ah I see nothing of port 25, I see one proxy port, I see one port to this server
21:58<SmatZ>mynetdude: there were security flaws that allowed anyone to do anything with your computer ... they were fixed later, I am talking about unpatched Windows XP
21:58<SmatZ>mynetdude: then it is ok
21:59<Eddi|zuHause2>especially pre-SP2 it was really bad with windows
21:59<mynetdude>oh unpatched, this is patched
21:59<Eddi|zuHause2>it has probably stabilised since then
22:00<mynetdude>I hate my internet
22:00<Eddi|zuHause2>but especially right after a reinstall it is dangerous, like when you first have to load the patches from windowsupdate
22:00<mynetdude>I'm using RF
22:00<mynetdude>they call it "W-DSL"
22:00<mynetdude>oh yeah good point, thats the only thing I do right after reinstall is do updates first
22:00<Eddi|zuHause2>wireless... boy you are adventurous
22:00<mynetdude>at least get it up to SP2
22:01<mynetdude>err I mean my install already has SP2
22:01<mynetdude>its all we have here
22:01<mynetdude>though I am moving finally
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22:03<Gekz>windows, with the messenger protocol, can receive spyware in 20 minutes
22:03<Gekz>its awesome
22:03<mynetdude>yeah I turn that off too
22:03<mynetdude>I actually uninstall that piece of crap
22:03<Gekz>just turn windows off
22:04<Gekz>boot into Linux
22:04<Gekz>succeed at life
22:04<Phantasm>I actually have no antivirus on windows.
22:04<Gekz>I didnt either
22:04<Gekz>and never got a virus
22:04<mynetdude>lolz my games run well in windows and I only know windows well enough to use my other appz
22:04<Phantasm>If something passes firefox, it would also pass the antivirus, so it is only useless bunch of slowliness.
22:04<mynetdude>though I do plan to go to linux this summer hopefully
22:04<mynetdude>when I buy my next gaming rig
22:05<Phantasm>Firefox + noscript is quite safe.
22:05<Phantasm>Assuming the user isn't an idiot. :)
22:06<mynetdude>well I have heard many windows user not use AV on windows because they are smart enough not to get all the stupid crap
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22:08<mynetdude>offs I can't even get on ircstorm with this crap internet
22:08<Phantasm>I'm not smart enough not to get viruses at all, but I'm smart enough not to get viruses the AV might catch.
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22:09<Eddi|zuHause2><Gekz> and never got a virus <- how do you know if you have no antivirus?
22:09<Phantasm>So, no use using AV... But I do know the fact that there are many yet unknown holes in firefox and other things that might get me a virus. AV just won't do any good even then... Any system can be broken with good enough skills and enough time.
22:10<Phantasm>Normal home users just aren't worthy enough users to be targetted with such commonly, so the chances are I won't get anything.. And even if I had AV the chances are I would get same amount of shit.
22:10<Eddi|zuHause2>that is huge nonsense...
22:11<mynetdude>Phantasm, well thats the AV's job, I'm smart enough not to download something I don't know what it is or at least scan it first
22:12<Phantasm>It is AV's job to get rid of 'any virus, previously known or unknown..
22:12<mynetdude>Phantasm well firefox, IE, Opera them all probably have holes somewhere to some degree
22:12<Phantasm>The problem is just that AVs don't do their job perfectly.
22:12<Eddi|zuHause2>you also use no condom because they are not 100% safe... right
22:13<Phantasm>mynetdude: IE has plenty of holes, and they get exploited a lot due to IE being used so much.. I use Firefox, and sure the are holes, but with noscript most of the holes get blocked likely.
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22:13<Phantasm>Eddi|zuHause2: Condom doesn't have as many drawbacks as AV does.
22:13<Eddi|zuHause2>i will not continue with this discussion
22:13<mynetdude>Phantasm, nothing is 100% perfect, you can't expect perfection just like condoms aren't 100% safe either
22:13<Phantasm>And I am behind linux NAT as well.
22:14<Phantasm>mynetdude: If AVs actually worked so they never ever use hard drive (other than to save their own updated virus database), then they might be useful.. But they are idiotic and slow down the system way too much.
22:14<mynetdude>Sure I don't disagree that Fx is more secure, you can't expect 100% failsafe security I suppose that is possible in Linux though
22:14<Phantasm>Active virus protection doesn't need to scan the files being used from hard drive, all it takes is to scan the data that is read to ram.
22:14*mynetdude doesn't know how to run a Linux NAT/Firewall yet
22:15<Phantasm>mynetdude: Linux is not 100% failsafe.
22:15<Eddi|zuHause2>and antivirus is not completely "useless" for unknown viruses, they are also designed to look for "suspicious behaviour", or unknown modifications of known viruses
22:15<Phantasm>The thing is, with firefox + noscript (ie. all javascript and plugins are disabled unless I myself tell them to be enabled for single site) only such special viruses may get past that no AV will notice them.
22:15<Eddi|zuHause2>and chances are, the AV gets updated much faster than the security hole in your application gets fixed
22:16<mynetdude>Phantasm files always go to the RAM before being written to a disc/HDD right?
22:16<Eddi|zuHause2>security holes usually open holes for KNOWN viruses/spyware/malware to get in
22:17<Phantasm>mynetdude: Everything goes to ram yes. Before getting executed read from hard drive of written downloaded from somewhere.
22:17<Eddi|zuHause2>which the AV will most likely catch
22:17<Phantasm>Eddi|zuHause2: Known holes won't get past updates firefox + noscript + NAT.
22:18<Eddi|zuHause2>but there is a "huge" timespan between a hole getting "known" and getting "fixed"
22:18<Eddi|zuHause2>during that time, you need the AV
22:18<Phantasm>In IE, yes.. In firefox, nope.
22:18<Phantasm>And AVs also get updates very slowly in reality.
22:18<Eddi|zuHause2>it doesn't have to be as fast
22:19<Eddi|zuHause2>because there is a difference between a security hole, and the virus getting through the security hole
22:19<Phantasm>There have been various tests for different AVs and they let loads of stuff, even old, past.
22:19<Eddi|zuHause2>the virus is most likely a variation of a known virus, even if the security hole is unknown
22:19<Phantasm>And the heurestics to detect unknown viruses are very bad.
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22:21<Phantasm>In normal desktop usage, the AV hampers the system performance due to stupidly accessing the hard drive more than anything as windows is very bad at handling multiple hard drive accessing at same time.
22:21<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm already seeing twice... i should go to bed
22:21<mynetdude_second>the problem wasn't my computer or router
22:21<mynetdude_second>it was the RF transciever itself
22:21<Phantasm>There is never ever case to need to read hard drive on active virus protection.. Only in separate virus scan there is need to read hard drive.
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22:22<mynetdude_second>I have had only had to do that 3 times since I've had this service
22:22<Phantasm>But AVs do read the hard drive like all the time when there is some activity and thus already the performance hole, hard drive, gets extra use and becomes even bigger hole.
22:23<mynetdude_second>Phantasm good point, my resident is always scanning any files being accessed... now if I could get a RAM scan resident then I could see not using HDD scan
22:23<Phantasm>If someone made AV that actually works intelligently, I might actually use it.
22:24<Phantasm>It is very fast to scan files on the RAM, so the good implementation would scan any staff that goes into ram (from network card, hard drive or whatever) before it is executed or otherwise accessed. That would give perfect scan protection as far as AVs virus databases and heurestics allow with no extra hard drive usage.
22:25<mynetdude_second>well the AV/database would be stored on the HDD and very little use is needed to access that
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22:26<Phantasm>In fact, I rather reinstall windows twice a year than use AV because the performance loss is worse than time taken for reinstall. In reality chances of getting a virus is like once in 10-1000 years... Then chances for the virus even working on windows server 2008 64 bit is other case...
22:26<Phantasm>AV files and database can all be in RAM, so no hard drive usage after startup there.
22:27<Phantasm>Of course whenever the AV files and/or databases are updated there would be some hard drive usage.
22:27<mynetdude>you mean when the PC boots the AV/database is copied to the RAM and stays there the whole time? I guess that would really speed things up
22:27<mynetdude>right then again copied to the RAM to have a copy of the update during active use
22:28<DaleStan>I have an Idea! Just use a monster RAM drive. Copy all your data into RAM on startup, and then you don't need the HD until shutdown!
22:29<mynetdude>well inteligence in software is needed, but I'm sure it is difficult
22:29<mynetdude>lol DaleStan
22:29<mynetdude>there are RAM drives... but horribly expensive?
22:31<DaleStan>I'm pretty sure you can get the drivers for free, but yes, the RAM necessary to do that would be horribly expensive. A RAID of flash drives would be cheaper and not much slower.
22:32<Sacro>DaleStan: to be honest, 16GB RAM isn't that unusual now, and that'd allow most OS'en
22:32<Phantasm>10 GB of ram is about 100 euro.
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22:32<Phantasm>But normal mobos only take 8 GB of ram max.. And server mobos are expensive.
22:33<mynetdude>I have seen some consumer boards take 16, hard to find and uber expensive
22:34<mynetdude>16GB isn't the norm yet, 4GB is pretty much the norm for consumer PCs, 16GB may be the norm for servers however
22:34<DaleStan><Phantasm> 10 GB of ram is about 100 euro. <-- I'd like to see where I can order that, please. I paid USD 100 for 1 GB not long ago.
22:34<Phantasm>2 GB per slot, 4 slots is the norm.
22:34<Phantasm>DaleStan: Germany at least.. That is DDR2-800.
22:35<mynetdude>DaleStan then you got ripped, you can get 1GB for way less now
22:35<mynetdude>I got DDR2-800 for less than $70
22:35<mynetdude>thats 2GB
22:35<DaleStan>"not long" as in "about a year ago", actually, and for a 5 year old computer.
22:35<Phantasm>DaleStan: Prices have gone down a lot.
22:36<mynetdude>DaleStan ah true I did buy some RAM a year ago for a bit more than that
22:36<mynetdude>but I consider not long ago the last 3-6 months
22:36<mynetdude>for PC stuff
22:36<DaleStan>The people who know more about such things than I said I needed to pay extra to get RAM that would be guaranteed to work properly with my machine.
22:36<Phantasm>A lot of prices have gone down a lot... Hard drive, cpu and ram at least.
22:36<mynetdude>hopefully I can buy my AMD Phenom for less than $1k with a few perks this summer, the price will have gone down some by then
22:37<mynetdude>DaleStan that is somewhat true
22:37<Sacro>phenom is only about $300 here
22:38<Phantasm>4 core phenom is below 160 euro here (including 22% vat).
22:38<mynetdude>DaleStan, I don't know how much you know... but typically manufacturers will list RAM they have tested and is known to have compatability (with no problems) but that doesn't mean you need to pay extra to make sure it works
22:38<mynetdude>yeah thats about $300USD or so
22:38<Phantasm>And any good store let's you return ram if it doesn't work.
22:38<Phantasm>No matter if the problem if your mobo or ram itself.
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22:40<DaleStan>But returning the stuff is a hassle. I'm willing to pay the extra to know I won't have to deal with that. Especially since that 1 GB was (and is) my only stick.
22:40<mynetdude>Phantasm better yet, I just RMA them nevermind taking them back to the store but yes... thats true many stores will accept the RAM back because all they do is do the RMA themselves
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22:40<mynetdude>DaleStan lolz... you're fooling yourself if you think paying extra will let you avoid those problems
22:40<Phantasm>Paying extra for such will 'quarantee' the store takes it back when you encounter problems.
22:41<mynetdude>paying extra may give you better QUALITY I won't disagree, but Corsair is good RAM and I've had them go bad on me just after a year
22:41<DaleStan>I went to the local *non-chain* computer store. Such stores are in the habit of knowing their stuff.
22:41<mynetdude>I disagree... as long as the RAM has the voltage and correct pins and other settings you might need it should relatively work
22:41<Phantasm>Ram almost never dies, if it works at start and you don't overclock it too much.
22:41<Phantasm>mynetdude: Compatibility problems are quite common with DDR2.
22:42<mynetdude>I never OC, no need to
22:42<Phantasm>mynetdude: So, you need to know what to get.
22:42<Phantasm>It isn't enough just to have correct voltage and correct ram type.
22:42<mynetdude>Phantasm I just made that point, as long as you get the correct specs it should be good to go
22:42<Phantasm>Correct specs isn't enough.
22:42<mynetdude>unless you need ECC and server type RAM... I don't know what else you'd need?
22:43<Phantasm>If you want, say DDR2-800 non-ecc, not all of those work. You need to make sure there aren't compatibility problems eith the mobo you are using.
22:43<Phantasm>Even though they do fit the specs, they might not work with your mobo.
22:44<mynetdude>I have never had any issues using any random brand DDR2-800 on 3 different types of boards
22:44<Phantasm>Yet.. ;P
22:44<mynetdude>yes I realize that certain brands will not work well as others even if they are the same specs
22:44<mynetdude>the only issue I have had was my set of Corsair DDR2-800 had an odd issue of failing to run in dual mode
22:45<mynetdude>they would run in single but not in dual and did not pass test in dual
22:46<Phantasm>Well, that is "minor" compatibility issue.
22:46<mynetdude>but yes I do check for RAM compatability to see if there is anything I should really avoid... but I like to go for cheaper and hope it works
22:47<mynetdude>if it doesn't work, at least I can use it somewhere else
22:47<Phantasm>Cheap is fine, as long as you check it should work.
22:47<mynetdude>but I don't think paying extra guarantees anything either
22:48<mynetdude>wanting quality is another issue... I can see paying more for higher specs/quality
22:48<Phantasm>Yea, paying extra won't guarantee anything. Unless the store has a 'service' that they check it should work with it.
22:48<mynetdude>neway... 'nuff of that
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22:49*mynetdude is thinking of what other newgrfs I want to include or possibly have :)
22:49<Phantasm>And even so, you may end up having to change it due to bad luck with it, just lower chances of compatibility problems arising such way.
22:52<mynetdude>has anybody tried to start ottd earlier than 1900? ;)
22:52<mynetdude>I have, can't do much until 1930 in my experience
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23:59<mynetdude>ooo nice I like this script
---Logclosed Sun Apr 27 00:00:20 2008