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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-28

---Logopened Mon Apr 28 00:00:54 2008
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00:57<mynetdude>whats the difference between ttdp and ottd? I thought ottd included ttdp?
00:58<DaleStan>In about the same way that Windows includes Linux.
01:00<mynetdude>windows includes linux? wth?
01:00<mynetdude>well I'm looking at the ttdp/ottd comparative... basically ottd has ttdp
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01:00<Celestar>DaleStan: nice comparison :)
01:02<mynetdude>hmm
01:02<DaleStan><mynetdude> windows includes linux? wth? <-- exactly. Now change those words to "OpenTTD" and "TTDPatch", but don't change the wth part.
01:03<DaleStan>It'll be just as correct.
01:03<mynetdude>DaleStan but windows doesn't include linux AFAIK... or never has...
01:03<DaleStan>And OpenTTD doesn't include TTDPatch, and never has.,
01:03<DaleStan>And never will.
01:04<DaleStan>In both cases.
01:04<mynetdude>errr let me quote the site then
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01:04<DaleStan>Nope. Whatever you think it says, Open does not include Patch any more than Windows includes Linux.
01:04<Celestar>they both share features
01:04<mynetdude>oic... there are "ttdpatch" features IN ottd but ttdpatch is not in ottd... that makes sense
01:04<Celestar>just like windows and linux share features
01:04<mynetdude>true
01:05<Celestar>like the "double-click", which some boneheaded individuals would like to put a patent on
01:05<mynetdude>thats dumb
01:06<Celestar>it is.
01:06<Celestar>but as most poticians only know "the internet" from print-outs ...
01:06<mynetdude>some bonehead sued eBay for something like that... they sued eBay because of the "Buy It Now" feature
01:12<Celestar>this is about as intelligent and one car making suing the other because the cars share the "headlight" feature
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01:19<mynetdude>Celestar good \way to put it
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02:05<@peter1138>hee
02:05<mynetdude>hey look at this: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Crossing_tunnels
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02:06<mynetdude>interesting... anyway bbl
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02:40<yorick>not much servers using 0.6.1-RC
02:40<yorick>@servers
02:40<@DorpsGek>yorick: Servers online: 145; Running version 0.6.0 (latest): 78; Clients online: 31
02:44<@Bjarni>145 servers and 31 clients
02:44<@Bjarni>that's a bad server/client radio
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02:45<yorick>it has always been
02:45<yorick>there are just too many servers
02:46<ln>lim[t -> ∞] online(Bjarni) = 24 h
02:46<Sionide>it's 8 in the morning in the UK and like... 3am ish in the US
02:46<yorick>there is no time where each server has at least one client
02:46<yorick>yes, it gets to somewhere around 90
02:46<@peter1138>at least there are empty servers to play on ;)
02:47<@Bjarni>yeah
02:47*yorick should poll every hour and make a graph
02:47<@Bjarni>I don't see a problem either
02:47<Tefad>ln: where's your t dependency?
02:47<Tefad>har.
02:47<@peter1138>i tried playing freeciv the other day... there were two servers, both with games running
02:47<@peter1138>(or something like that)
02:49<yorick>:D every time I refresh the servers.openttd.org page, I get other info
02:49<yorick>78 of the 145 servers online are using version 0.6.0 (latest stable)
02:49*yorick refreshes
02:49<yorick>, http://www.openttd.org/
02:49*yorick again
02:49<yorick>Currently there are 32 clients online
02:49<@peter1138>yup, it alternates
02:50<yorick>no graphing idea allowed :(
02:53-!-MrDowntempo [~corey@user-0c6sr2a.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd
02:53<MrDowntempo>Hi all!
02:53<yorick>Hello.
02:54<MrDowntempo>is there a patch or something I can use to make all the interface elements bigger?
02:54<yorick>No.
02:54<MrDowntempo>:(
02:54<yorick>but you could try to switch dpi
02:54<yorick>resolution?
02:54<yorick>or just buy a bigger monitor
02:55<MrDowntempo>I'm running openttd on an n800. Its a 800x480 screen.
02:55<@peter1138>no, because if they were bigger they wouldn't fit
02:55<yorick>^^
02:55<@peter1138>just get a magnifying glass
02:55<@peter1138>or glasses :)
02:55<MrDowntempo>It is hires for the size it is, it makes clicking on the close icons and other various buttons kinda difficult
02:56<MrDowntempo>sometimes I miss and I place random chunks of railroad track around the map =)
02:56<yorick>what did you expect from running openttd on such a device?
02:57<MrDowntempo>Don't get me wrong, it runs great. It would just be a tad bit more usable if I could scale up some of the interface elements
02:57<yorick>but it wouldn't fit
02:57<MrDowntempo>why wouldn't it fit?
02:57<MrDowntempo>no menu takes up the whole screen
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02:58<MrDowntempo>and 800x480 Is bigger than the original games res. Didn't it originally only run at 640x480?
02:59<yorick>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1950 <-- this one might help for the menu buttons
02:59<yorick>it's been created to suit the nintendo ds
02:59<@peter1138>yes, of course it fits at 640x480
02:59<@peter1138>but it wouldn't fit it is was scaled up
02:59<yorick>your touchscreen isn't precise enough, methinks
03:00<MrDowntempo>thats possible, I may need to recalibrate it
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03:01<MrDowntempo>Here is a pic of openttd on the device
03:01<MrDowntempo>http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/391264052_967ad6492c.jpg
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03:03<yorick>try decreasing the resolution
03:03<MrDowntempo>Hmmm... don't think I can.
03:04<MrDowntempo>I can't at least in the game options menu, it only lists 800x480
03:05<yorick>no, you should try on the device's screen options
03:05<MrDowntempo>It doesn't really have anything like that
03:06<yorick>heh, the problem is that your device's screen has a 800x480 screen resolution on a very small screen
03:06<yorick>openttd can't just change that
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03:22<MrDowntempo>recalibrating did seeem to help a tad =) Maybe thats all I needed to do
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03:40<yorick>glad to hear :)
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03:40*peter1138 yawns
03:41<Roest>morning
03:41<yorick>morning
03:42<@peter1138>oh yes, copying 15GB from one drive to another will make the system slow :o
03:42<ooo4tom>morning all !!
03:43<@peter1138>heh, how quaint... an LS-120 drive
03:47<Tefad>ls120 drives are awesome
03:48<Tefad>they read regular floppies too ; )
03:48<Tefad>and they're IDE
03:48<@peter1138>actually i was wrong, it's a zip 100
03:48<@peter1138>there were some ls120 drives here but i think they got binned years ago
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03:49<Tefad>ah pff zip100
03:49<@peter1138>pff floppy media
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03:50<@peter1138>hehe, the days when several games fitted on a 1.44 disk
03:50<@peter1138>15GB @ 19.5MB/s
03:50<@peter1138>:o
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03:54<Celestar>er ...
03:54<Celestar>this seemed to have overwhelmed his comp :P
03:54<mynetdude>interesting...
03:54<mynetdude>yeah I liked zipdisks when they first came out
03:54<Tefad>hehe decent speed though
03:55<mynetdude>wished they would increase the data volume it could hold
03:55<mynetdude>the largest zipdisk capacity is 750MB which is 50MB more than a CDR
03:55<Tefad>zip went up to 750 i think
03:55<Tefad>50MB less than a flaky CDR ; )
03:55<mynetdude>I know, thats not big enough... there are plenty of other media in the GB range
03:55<yorick>get DVD's, you idiots!
03:55<Tefad>(there's a way to encode using less recovery data)
03:55<mynetdude>um, 50MB LESS? no, MORE
03:56<Tefad>^
03:56<mynetdude>CDRs hold 700MB, zipdisks hold 750MB
03:56<Tefad>http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t453525.html
03:56<mynetdude>but alas... DVDs are the way to go
03:56<Celestar>you can get 800MB CDRs
03:56<mynetdude>but I don't see any reason to use DVDs if I can't fill the whole 4.7GB or 8.5 for DL
03:57<Celestar>they work reasonably well
03:57<mynetdude>Celestar really? I haven't seen any
03:57<mynetdude>are they relatively new?
03:58<Tefad>not really
03:58<Tefad>just no real demand
03:58<Tefad>sort of a niche thing
03:58<mynetdude>well CDRs are going away over time anyway
03:59<yorick>...libiconv depends on gettext and gettext depends on libiconv }|
03:59<Tefad>yorick: sounds awesome
03:59<Tefad>using gentoo?
03:59<mynetdude>with DVDs still being not so new but not so old, with the introduction of HD/BluRay CDRs are going out the door
03:59<Tefad>HD died.
03:59<yorick>windows
03:59<Tefad>BD ftw.
03:59<mynetdude>I still see ads for HD movies every now and then, but I also see BR ads just as well
04:00<mynetdude>but you are right BR did win the standards
04:00<Tefad>yup, they're trying to sell the remaining stock at a profit.
04:00<mynetdude>if they can
04:00<Tefad>then all the HD-DVD gear gets dumped on big lots and wal-mart.
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04:01<Tefad>(or your country's equivalence)
04:01<mynetdude>which is stupid
04:01<mynetdude>not the walmart part, but the big lots
04:01<Tefad>why?
04:01<mynetdude>well, dumps, incinerators, etc
04:01<mynetdude>because it creates more waste
04:01<Tefad>do you know what big lots is?
04:02<mynetdude>oh nvm
04:02<Tefad>larl.
04:02<mynetdude>thought you meant like the dumps kind of big lots
04:02<Tefad>haha no.
04:02<mynetdude>but yes I know Big Lots and Walmart, but I never see any "real" electronics at big lots
04:02<Tefad>big lots carries HDMI cables for like.. $13 btw.
04:02<mynetdude>wow I've seen them sell for $30-$50 at other places
04:03<Tefad>i've seen them sell for over $100.
04:03<mynetdude>probably can get 'em on ebay for $10-$15
04:03<Tefad>monster brand "1080p"
04:03<Tefad>bunch of crap.
04:03<mynetdude>I haven't seen them go for $100 here in this area but I have heard them sell much higher than $50
04:03<mynetdude>at least not that brand anyway
04:04<mynetdude>don't know anyone who carries that brand down here
04:05<Tefad>by no means is moster a horrible brand for quality
04:05<Tefad>it's just their crap is marked way way up and way over-hyped
04:06<Tefad>they go as far as connecting noise generators up to demo units and have toggle switches to simulate "real" output from moster brand cable and "other" cable.
04:06<Tefad>monster i mean.
04:06<mynetdude>I've seen the Monster brand, but I don't know enough about it... its like buying HP... all super marked up cuz of the brand
04:07<Tefad>the price is totally crap
04:07<Tefad>if i find something monster brand at reasonable price i'll buy it
04:07<Tefad>usually second hand or at a salvage store though : )
04:09<Alberth>@calc 11178 / 6967
04:09<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 1.60442084111
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04:12<yorick>darn!
04:12<yorick>g:\bottd\bottd\mingw\bin\windres.exe: ./../windows/libiconv.rc:6: syntax error
04:12<yorick>make[1]: *** [libiconv.res] Error 1
04:12<@Bjarni><mynetdude> but alas... DVDs are the way to go <-- or HDs.... but putting all your data on a single HD isn't as reliable as spreading it on several DVDs
04:12<Alberth>@calc ( 11178 / 56 ) / ( 6967 / 76 )
04:12<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 2.17742828436
04:12<@Bjarni>but HDs has a decent price/GB compared to optical drives
04:12<@Bjarni>gtg
04:12<@Bjarni>bye
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04:13<yorick>!inrajB
04:14<mynetdude>never said anything about putting any data on HD, I don't see how putting data on a single HD is more unreliable thats like saying putting data on a single DVD is less reliable than multiple CDRs
04:14<Noldo>but it is
04:15<Roest>lol
04:15<mynetdude>lolz if you think so... then everything else is a joke, putting your data on a single SD card, MMC, whatever is all just unreliable so you might as well not store anything
04:15<Roest>uh mynetude i suggest a beginners course in logic
04:15<mynetdude>:P
04:16<mynetdude>whatever you say, I suggest you take a beginner's course in waste reduction and desk organization
04:17<Roest>acutally i agree on the desk organization, my desk is a mess
04:17-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
04:17<mynetdude|Away>Roest mine was until this cute girl cleaned it all
04:17<Celestar>any desk where a reasonable amount of actual work is done is a mess
04:17<mynetdude|Away>now I can't find anything
04:17<Roest>thanks Celestar :)
04:18<Celestar>otherwise it's just a showoff "Look I have a clean desk"
04:18<mynetdude|Away>I prefer to have a clean desk mind you
04:18<mynetdude|Away>but anywayz another day is coming, cya
04:18<Noldo>if those who have messy desk have messy mind I have to wonder if it also applies to those that have empty desk
04:18<Roest>show off!
04:18<@peter1138>if i have a clean desk i just sit there admiring it
04:19<@peter1138>only when it's really mess does real work happen
04:19<Alberth>and then your boss comes along polluting it with new work :P
04:19<Roest>Noldo messy mind or dirty mind? ^^
04:19<Celestar>Alberth: exactly :P
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04:48<Roest>lol alberth
04:49<yorick>@openttd commit 7561
04:49<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by rubidium :: r7561 /trunk (7 files) (2006-12-26 12:56:48 UTC)
04:49<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fix (FS#431): core and (patches) GUI were not in-sync with respect to autorenew settings. This is only a temporary fix, as the definite fix needs to move the autorenew settings to a per-company settings window.
04:49<Roest>that almost sounds like a professional business audit
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04:55<teeg>Celestar: I prefer to keep my physical desk clean
04:55<teeg>my mental/computorial desk, however...
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05:14<yorick>LordAzamath!
05:14<LordAzamath>yorick!
05:15<yorick>rest is over?
05:19*yorick pokes LordAzamath
05:20<LordAzamath>meh?
05:20<yorick>are you gonna stay?
05:20<LordAzamath>dunno
05:20<LordAzamath>I saw some noobs in forums asking desperatly for help
05:20*yorick uses mind-control
05:20<LordAzamath>but I don't feel like helping them :D
05:21<Alberth>yorick, stop that!
05:21<yorick>*keep being here* *keep being here* *keep being here*
05:21<LordAzamath>ok.. I'll be here.. but that means I can't join #?
05:21<yorick>Alberth: *don't tell me what to do* *don't tell me what do do*
05:21<Alberth>sorry
05:21<LordAzamath>:P
05:21<yorick>you should be able to :S
05:22<LordAzamath>I can't
05:22<yorick>*on this server*
05:22<LordAzamath>I'm like torn apart then.. If I'm on both channels on the same time
05:22<yorick>*keep being on this server*
05:23<LordAzamath>yorick, I can also leave all channels and just be online on this server ;D
05:24<Roest>my work output so far this morning: added 3 lines of code, changed 4 lines
05:24<LordAzamath>wOw
05:25<Roest>and it's not doing what it's supposed to do
05:25<yorick>good, for a blind person :)
05:25<Roest>voice input yorick
05:25<LordAzamath>a blind?
05:25<yorick>yeah, he's blind
05:25<LordAzamath>then it won't hurt when I stab you in the eyes?
05:26*LordAzamath stabs roest in the eyes
05:26<teeg><tasteless>well, he won't see it coming...</tasteless>
05:26<Roest>ouch, blind doesnt mean i dont feel anything
05:26<LordAzamath>WAAAIT
05:26<LordAzamath>how do you see what we're writing? :o
05:26<LordAzamath>youlied all the time, Ro
05:26<LordAzamath>est
05:26<yorick>voice input
05:26<Roest>computer reads it, stupid
05:26<LordAzamath>and output?
05:27<yorick>he can typr
05:27<yorick>type
05:27<Roest>in what year do you live
05:27<yorick>2067928
05:27<LordAzamath>1240 AD. Corinth has finished building SS Structural
05:28<Roest>figures
05:28<LordAzamath>?
05:28<LordAzamath>doesn't a word Civilization mean anything to you?
05:29<LordAzamath>There are more good old games than TT :P
05:29<Roest>no it just explains your lack of knowledge about common technology
05:29<yorick>freeciv!
05:29<LordAzamath>naah
05:29<LordAzamath>It's kinda useless
05:29<Roest>yea freeciv kinda sucks
05:29<LordAzamath>onl wayto survive is to only rush cities
05:30<LordAzamath>not like civ 1 for example.. I did a OCC yestrday with civ1
05:30<Roest>there's a freecol, but UI is bad as well
05:30<LordAzamath>spaceship was sent like.. in 1920 :P
05:30<LordAzamath>The city was 33 in size..
05:31<LordAzamath>and all buildings and wonders built
05:31<LordAzamath>other civs didn't have ay wonders
05:31<LordAzamath>occ is one city challege
05:31<LordAzamath>and then I ofcourse play MTA:SA :P
05:32<Roest>MTA?
05:32<LordAzamath>Multi Theft Auto: San Andreas :P
05:32<LordAzamath>san andreas multiplayer
05:32<Roest>san andreas is the worst of the series
05:32<LordAzamath>you think?
05:33*LordAzamath likes SA
05:33<Roest>i never really got into it, VC was sooooooooooo good
05:33<LordAzamath>roest, it doesn't appeal at start witha ll that black gangsta stuff.. but it's fun.. especially in mp
05:34<Roest>and they did something to the camera i never got used to
05:34<LordAzamath>?
05:34<LordAzamath>camera?
05:34<Roest>yea you always had to manually correct the camera
05:34<LordAzamath>hmm
05:34<LordAzamath>I didn't
05:35*teeg salivates at the thought of GTA:IV
05:35<SmatZ>GTA is too cruel for me
05:35<LordAzamath>why?
05:35<teeg>"too cruel"? how come?
05:36<SmatZ>you can shoot people
05:36<SmatZ>all people
05:36<SmatZ>I don't like shooting civilians
05:36<teeg>I prefer to run them over with a car. it's just a pity the car'll catch on fire after a while :(
05:36<LordAzamath>in openttd you can ram busses with trains
05:36<LordAzamath>SmatZ: It's just a game
05:36<SpComb>SmatZ: or you can avoid doing that
05:36<SmatZ>I just don't feel good
05:37<teeg>don't forget the coffee mod
05:37<SpComb>it's fun doing the taxi missions and trying not to bump your car into anything
05:37<LordAzamath>LoL
05:37<teeg>where you can help replace those you gunned down or ran over :P
05:37<SpComb>(talking about GTA III)
05:37<Roest>gta4 is still far away for the PC
05:37<LordAzamath>(Talking about SA)
05:37<LordAzamath>very far..
05:37<teeg>1-2 years I reckon
05:38<Roest>but then i read a preview of mafia2 this weekend
05:38<LordAzamath>not so much..
05:38<LordAzamath>It's out for xbox I already know
05:38<teeg>won't really matter that much, since I'll probably actually buy it on the 360
05:38<LordAzamath>And they don't want to lose computer market
05:38<teeg>I don't really think they get the controlling interface right when they port it over to the PC
05:39<teeg>or, at least they didn't get it 100% right in GTA3 in my opinion
05:39<LordAzamath>dunno
05:39<LordAzamath>you guys seen this: http://www.ottd.info/page/0/?
05:39<teeg>I don't really care all that much though, I'm just waiting to see what people'll get their knockers in a twist over this time
05:39<LordAzamath>I don't get there what I'm supposed to do...
05:40<teeg>last time it was the coffee mod which wasn't really enabled by default, but which they still got sued over
05:40<SpComb>GTA3's PC-joystick is ridiculous
05:41<LordAzamath>teeg.. not enabled byt default?.. Not only default.. There was no way of enabling it othere than modifying the files, which was forbidden IIRC
05:41<teeg>LordAzamath: true
05:41<LordAzamath>So there was no legal way of getting to know of the hot coffe issue at all
05:42<teeg>except for when these soccer mums decided to sue and make a big issue of it all
05:42<teeg>I never would even have known about it if they hadn't
05:43<LordAzamath>I even don't know what that was all about :P
05:43<LordAzamath>Only something about mbanging his gfriends, right?
05:43<teeg>and hell, I can find better porn in 5 minutes if that's the problem, so if I'd been the producers of GTA, I'd've told them to get fucked
05:49<Celestar>wtf.
05:49<Celestar>the mySQL5.0 reference manual is 2065 pages
05:50<Phantasm>Quite short.
05:50<teeg>I didn't know mysql had that much to document
05:50<Roest>celstar go memorize it
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05:53<Gekz>teeg: you need all the information on how to stop sql injections as possible lolol
05:54<teeg>that's simple, just don't use PHP, move over to Perl, DBI and use prepare/execute :P
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05:55<Gekz>oh god
05:55<Gekz>and you want to convert OpenTTD to C++
05:55<Gekz>you just lost all my respect
05:55<LordAzamath>ok bye
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05:55<teeg>What? You're not one of those who think Perl "looks like line noise", do you?
05:56<Celestar>teeg: mysql is a pretty good DB imho
05:56<Gekz>teeg: not only do I think it, I know it
05:56<Gekz>Python is far superior
05:56<Celestar>teeg: not really for large databases, but for medium sized ones (up to something like several thousand queries per second)
05:57<teeg>Celestar: except it doesn't take data integrity as seriously as it should do, and transactions took forever to implement, and once it was implemented it wasn't even enabled for subqueries. But it's not a BAD one, I'm just ripping on it for the sake of doing so. I use it in a few areas myself for my own use
05:57<teeg>(I could've used postgres instead, but I can't be bothered with porting)
05:58<Celestar>I haven'T used postgreSQL a lot, is it better?
05:58<teeg>Gekz: heh. I didn't much like the whitespace part of it, it feels like handcuffs
05:58<Gekz>yes
05:58<Gekz>whats the difference between postgre and my?
05:58<@peter1138>postgresql is a lot nicer
05:59<teeg>Celestar: supposedly, yes. better at keeping data integrity and has more of the "enterprisey" features mysql doesn't have (or didn't have last I looked at it)
05:59<@peter1138>and more open
05:59<@peter1138>mysql is only open source begrudgingly now, or someushc
06:00<teeg>Gekz: http://cvs.mindriot.as/index.cgi/pircstats/bot/pircstats.pl?rev=1.31 btw, find the line noise
06:02<teeg>peter1138: hasn't it always been "open"? i.e. an opensource license for private use, and if you want to use it to make money you have to pay for it ... or is it just if you also want the support?
06:03<@peter1138>well it's gpl, so you don't have to pay money to use it
06:04<yorick>Quite.
06:04<Gekz>teeg: I'm not saying perl is inherently linenoisy, but it can be, and usually is
06:04<Gekz>I can write readable perl code
06:04<yorick>but can the interpreter?
06:04<Gekz>but still, the sigil shit is ugly
06:05<Gekz>yorick: fuck up
06:05<Gekz>lol
06:05<teeg>Gekz: sigil shit?
06:05<yorick>"You'll ruin my theories!"?
06:07<Gekz>teeg: sigil-based variablesa
06:07<teeg>@ $ etc?
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06:16<Celestar>GNAHHH
06:16<Celestar>I love it. mkdir tmp/ .. file exists. mkdir temp/ ... file exists, mkdir TMP/ ... file exists mkdir TEMP/ .. file exists. DAMNIT
06:16<teeg>mkdir temp_HLUGAHLGAHGLUAHGLUHGLHG
06:17*Celestar mkdirs TeMp
06:18<Noldo>foo?
06:18<teeg>my temp dirs are usually uu or uuu or uuuu etc.
06:19<Celestar>Noldo: I have foo, bar and qux as well
06:19*Celestar ponders "foobar"
06:20<Noldo>that's bad
06:21<teeg>funniest situation I've been in was when I figured out I'd overdone the uu thing... I had files or variables named all the way up to uuuuuuu I think. that's when I gave up and cleaned up the homedir "a bit"
06:22-!-pm|away is now known as planetmaker
06:22<yorick>my overflowsafe just overflowed }|
06:23<Celestar>?
06:23<Celestar>heya planetmaker
06:23<Alberth>the safe was too small
06:24<yorick>the new paxdest is also dying
06:24<yorick>the creator disappeared :(
06:24<Celestar>:(
06:25<Roest>yorick: they all do
06:25<yorick>you've never seen it
06:26<@peter1138>Celestar, mktmp? ;)
06:26<planetmaker>hy Celestar :)
06:26<@peter1138>er mktemp even
06:26<Celestar>:)
06:27<Celestar>planetmaker: got a Q for you
06:27<planetmaker>got an A for you :)
06:27*planetmaker can answer all questions.
06:27<Celestar>how abundant is Li in the Earth's crust and the solar system (inner)
06:27*planetmaker ponders wether the answers are correct though ;)
06:28<planetmaker>Celestar: hm... not very.
06:28<Alberth>there is no way he can check this one :)
06:28<Celestar>Alberth: he's the expert in that field
06:28<Roest>he makes them after all
06:28<Celestar>planetmaker: not very meaning?
06:28<Alberth>euh, yeh the name should have tipped me off
06:29<Celestar>planetmaker: nvm I found it
06:29<planetmaker>IIRC about 4...6 orders of magnitude less abundant than silicon.
06:30<Celestar>18ppm in crustal rocks
06:30<planetmaker>link ?
06:30<Celestar>KDE's PSE :)
06:30<planetmaker>:)
06:30<Celestar>setting Si at 27%
06:31<Celestar>(well they write 272200ppm but that's kind of bullshit)
06:31<planetmaker>so I was correct :)
06:31<Celestar>pretty
06:32<Celestar>the question is ... what's the total mass of crustal rocks on the planet? :)
06:32<planetmaker>astrophysicists care only about orders of magnitude anyway :)
06:32<Celestar>engineers too :P
06:32<planetmaker>only the crust? or the mantle?
06:32<Celestar>at least research
06:32<Celestar>the crust
06:32<Celestar>1% of Earths total mass?
06:32<Celestar>er 0.1% I mean
06:32<planetmaker>10km shell of r=6700km at 4000kg/m^3.
06:33<Celestar>yeah :P
06:33<planetmaker>total mass earth = 6*10^24kg
06:33<Celestar>yeah
06:33<Celestar>r=6370 isn't it?
06:33*planetmaker is too lazy to do the math right now. yeah, 6370km
06:33<Celestar>if you assume 10km it's around 10^19 kg
06:34<planetmaker>not much :). But reasonable.
06:34<Celestar>so about 4x10^11 kg Li
06:34<planetmaker>it's just a tiny sphere in comparison
06:34<Celestar>... not much
06:34<planetmaker>still: much considering the weight of an accumulator
06:35<Celestar>planetmaker: the question is: could you power the worldwide fleet of cars on Li?
06:35<Celestar>Li-Ion Packs I mean
06:35<planetmaker>^^ I assumed already this question behind it :)
06:35<Celestar>because I had a little disagreement earlier
06:36<planetmaker>What's the typical specific energy density of an accumulator in J/kg(Li)
06:36<planetmaker>?
06:36<Celestar>currently we can go for about 0.5MJ/kg
06:36<Celestar>source indicate that this can be at least 5 folded in the next two decades
06:37<Celestar>so let's assume 2MJ/kg
06:37<Celestar>a normal car needs about 200MJ energy storage to be reasonably usable
06:37<planetmaker>a typical car is assumed as 50kW.
06:37<Celestar>planetmaker: much less.
06:37<teeg>Celestar: what do you define as "reasonably usable"? 100-200km?
06:37<planetmaker>right, 50kW is max power.
06:38<Celestar>teeg: 400-600 miles usable range as speeds up to 90mph.
06:38<planetmaker>with 200km it's usable IMO. 100k is too little
06:38<Celestar>teeg: a modern 1-series BMW can go 120km/h at below 20kW
06:38<planetmaker>500km is currently standard (or so)
06:39<yorick>@openttd commit 12759
06:39<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by belugas :: r12759 trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp (2008-04-18 03:17:22 UTC)
06:39<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fix(r12358): There is no need to mask callback result for pre-version7 since CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK (cb2F) is really 15 bits.
06:39<yorick>:)
06:39<Celestar>planetmaker: just assume a 100kg battery pack for a car
06:39<planetmaker>Okay, let's assume 25kW, it's easy math then. 2MJ/kg, 25kW.
06:40<planetmaker>250 000 000J / 25 000W = 10000s = 3h = 300km at 100km/h
06:40<Celestar>er?
06:40<Celestar>at 100km/h the energy usage is much lower :)
06:41<teeg>300km is still 150km short of my parents' house, so that wouldn't work for me :P
06:41<Celestar>(only 70%, so about 14kw)
06:41<planetmaker>100kg * 2MJ = 250MJ. ... ok 360km
06:41<Celestar>planetmaker: yeah, about.
06:41<teeg>I would expect at least 500km range if I were to consider one
06:41<teeg>(otherwise it'd just be an inter-city car)
06:41<Celestar>teeg: we'll have that in about 10-15 years
06:41<planetmaker>^^ probably.
06:41<Celestar>planetmaker: so where are we stuck?
06:42<planetmaker>the mass of li needed to run all cars. How many cars in the world? 40M in Germany.
06:42<teeg>at that point I might consider swapping my S2 for one, but until we do reach that point, and the car can be "refuelled" within a few minutes, good luck
06:42<Celestar>planetmaker: for the future, assume 4 billion I'd say
06:43<planetmaker>na, 4 billion is too much. but let's start with 1 billion. Easy math :)
06:43<Celestar>ok
06:43<planetmaker>10^9 * 100kg = 10^11kg :). But Li content of the accumulator is how many percent?
06:43<planetmaker>10%?
06:43<Celestar>I think rather less
06:43<Celestar>but I'm looking it up
06:44<Roest>cool i just made my 3 lines of code work, lesson learned: never expect implicit casts
06:44<planetmaker>let's be pessimistic here, then we're at 10 billion kg.
06:44<planetmaker>= 10% of crustal content... which is MUCH
06:45<Celestar>planetmaker: a typical 7.5Wh Li-Ion cell has 600 milligrams
06:45<planetmaker>Hm... maybe Li is enriched in the crust...
06:45<Celestar>planetmaker: but that's around 0.2MJ/kg technology
06:45<planetmaker>and how much does it weigh, Celestar
06:46<planetmaker>come to think of it, Li will be enriched in the crust...
06:46<planetmaker>it's light weight and heavy elements sunk down to the earth's core tendentially...
06:46<Celestar>so 7.5Wh thats 0.027MJ/600milligramns
06:46<Celestar>or 0.045MJ/gram
06:47<Celestar>45MJ/kg
06:47<Eddi|zuHause3>"How many cars in the world?" <- doctor who said 800M ;)
06:47<Celestar>45MJ/kg is pretty much the energy content of Diesel.
06:47<Celestar>or cruide oil
06:47<planetmaker>Celestar: 7.5Wh / 600 grams, right?
06:47<Celestar>planetmaker: 600 milligrams
06:47<planetmaker>Then you lost some powers...
06:47<Celestar>not grams
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06:48<planetmaker>0.00005 MJ/ milligram = 0.05 MJ/gram. you were right :)
06:48<Celestar>planetmaker: however, crude oil can be fired only once
06:48<planetmaker>yep.
06:49<Celestar>Li-Ion batteries can be recharged
06:49<teeg>Celestar: that energy has to be produced from somewhere though. :P
06:49<Celestar>I _assume_ we have more Li in the Earth's crust than crude Oil
06:49<Celestar>teeg: that's currently not the question
06:49<planetmaker>But! Accumulators are not SOURCE of energy while crude oil IS a source
06:49<Eddi|zuHause3>no, but fission energy is ;)
06:50<planetmaker>you want fusion :).
06:50<Celestar>the question is: "Do we have enough Lithium in the Earth's crust to power the worldwide fleet of cars on Li-Ion batteries"
06:50<Celestar>planetmaker: yes, but D-He(3) please
06:50<planetmaker>T is also acceptable
06:50<Celestar>planetmaker: for the first step ,yes
06:50<Eddi|zuHause3>planetmaker: yes, but in a useable amount within the next 50 years?
06:50<Celestar>but making T requires Li, which is not good
06:50<teeg>Celestar: heh. having enough lithium to start with would be a good start, yes
06:51<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause3: sure. As the last 50 years: "in 50 years we'll have working fusion plants" ;)
06:51<Celestar>planetmaker: it's no longer 50 years.
06:51<planetmaker>Celestar: back to topic "enough Li?", it may just be enough...
06:51<planetmaker>Celestar: did that change? :)
06:52<Celestar>planetmaker: apparently. But we can mine it from NEOs for example
06:52<Celestar>planetmaker: the question is what do you define as a working fusion power plant
06:52<yorick>should need water
06:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i said "useable", not "working"...
06:52<yorick>and give power, batteries, and waste
06:52<Vikthor>planetmaker: But we have fusion plants, now they just don't produce any usable energy ;)
06:52<Celestar>ITER will be a working fusion plant
06:53<yorick>NUCLUAR waste
06:53<Celestar>usable could be finished in the late 2030s or early 2040s
06:53<yorick>which should go to the weapons factory]
06:53<planetmaker>fusion plant = device which has a net energy output by increasing the atomic weight of its fuel and decreasing the numbers of nuclei doing so.
06:53<yorick>which produce rockets
06:53<Celestar>yorick: nuclear fusion power plants do not make nuclear waste
06:53<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. give out significant share of total produced engergy
06:53<yorick>:(
06:53<Celestar>planetmaker: ok we already had that in 1996
06:53<Celestar>planetmaker: the JET met your description for around 1.6 seconds
06:53<planetmaker>Celestar: they are only now working on a prototype which shall show the practicability of fusion. It will be by no means a source of energy
06:54<planetmaker>Celestar: not the net energy.
06:54<Celestar>planetmaker: yes
06:54<Celestar>it had a Q of > 1
06:54<Celestar>for a USABLE power plant, you need a Q of at least 15
06:55<Celestar>because of losses and shit
06:55<planetmaker>Recently in a talk from one of the project co-ordinators of the Stellarator in Greifswald (and Wendelstein-X,...) he said that they did not produce net energy. 20% output of input
06:55<Celestar>planetmaker: oh I'm sorry. It had a Q of 0.7
06:55<planetmaker>Nevertheless they HAVE fusion.
06:55<Celestar>so only 70%
06:55<Celestar>:(
06:56<Celestar>JT-60 claimed a Q of 1.25
06:56<planetmaker>And only over very short periods of time...
06:56<planetmaker>So nothing the current power grid could use much...
06:56<Celestar>planetmaker: ITER will have a Q of 10, over prolonged (minutes) periods of time
06:56<planetmaker>Actually, interesting side not: they heat the plasma with microwaves.
06:56<Celestar>by the end of the next decade
06:57<planetmaker>... the "fünf minuten terine" will be done in their ray within 10 Milliseconds :)
06:57<Eddi|zuHause3>lmao :p
06:57<Celestar>lol
06:57<planetmaker>5*10MW microwave :)
06:57<Celestar>and ITER will have 500MW of NET fusion power output
06:57<Celestar>ROFLMAO
06:57<Celestar>"TER was originally an acronym for International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, but that title was dropped due to the negative popular connotation of "thermonuclear," especially when in conjunction with "experimental"."
06:58<Celestar>I love the last part
06:58<teeg>heh
06:58<yorick>:D
06:58<planetmaker>:)
06:58<planetmaker>just use the latin meaning and you know the purpose of "iter" :)
06:58<Eddi|zuHause3>haha, haven't seen that one yet ;)
06:58<Celestar>"journey"
06:58<planetmaker>or path
06:59<Roest>http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2001-06-19/
06:59<planetmaker>^ :D
06:59<Celestar>planetmaker: but ITER will be a fully functioning fusion device. It'll not produce energy, since there's no plan to attach a steam turbine to it at the present time
07:00<planetmaker>the attachment of the turbine also isn't the point, but the net heat dissipation which might be used.
07:00<Celestar>it might, but it's not planned to
07:01<planetmaker>They've problems with contamination of their plasma, though...
07:01<Celestar>ITER's point is not to produce usable energy
07:01<Eddi|zuHause3>it's the point of prototypes... they are not supposed to be used for something meaningful
07:01<planetmaker>^^ yes. but to show that they could
07:01<planetmaker>or rather: that the design of the coils will do.
07:01<Celestar>but to show that it works and develop procedures and technology for a full-scale economic power plants
07:01<planetmaker>which is the most difficult part of all.
07:01<Celestar>I still prefer the Stellarator idea however
07:02<planetmaker>they all have pros and cons.
07:02<Celestar>true
07:03<Celestar>it's 13:03. what's the pros and cons of going home?
07:03<planetmaker>And the biggest problem is the neutron flux and its influence on the magnetic containment.
07:03<planetmaker>100% stay here, 0% go. :S
07:03<planetmaker>have to take an exam on a student. Question: will I be mean ? ;)
07:03<Celestar>lol
07:04<Celestar>I wonder whether we should first try to develop interplanetary fusion drives and make reactors later
07:04<planetmaker>he was just an annoyance :P
07:04<Celestar>the drives are easier to build
07:04<Celestar>you don't need to contain the plasma that much
07:04<planetmaker>^ no need for environmental protection, free cooling.
07:04<Celestar>because you want to eject it anyway ;)
07:05<planetmaker>You'll have to have the same containment though. Just different geometry.
07:05<planetmaker>...magnetic bottle...
07:05<Celestar>D-He fusion drives can reasonably accelerate a space ship to noticable fractions of c
07:05<planetmaker>well... ion drives already work.
07:05<Celestar>with noticable I mean more than 0.05
07:06<Celestar>even 0.1 could be doable
07:06<planetmaker>but the thrust will be very low for these kind of drives.
07:06<Celestar>not for fusion drives
07:06<Eddi|zuHause3>would still take 40 years to reach the next star
07:06<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: yes
07:06<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: but I'm talking interplanetary, not interstellar for the time being
07:06<planetmaker>Celestar: then you need a HUGE fusion device because you need a high mass throughput.
07:07<Celestar>planetmaker: you don't need a very high mass throughput
07:07<Celestar>planetmaker: just assume a 1000t starship and you want an acceleration of 0.1g
07:07<Celestar>(which is quite a lot)
07:07<planetmaker>Which is an order of magnitude too little to lift of.
07:07<Celestar>you need 1 million newtons
07:07<Eddi|zuHause3>the main problem with accelerating a spaceship that you also have to decelerate it somehow
07:08<Celestar>fusion drives are not ment to lift off
07:08<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: yes, hence the 0.05-0.1 restriction, without breaking (probes), twice the velocity is possible
07:09<Celestar>F=\dot m * v
07:09<Celestar>so what \dot m do we need?
07:10<Celestar>assuming a propusive efficiency of 20% (very low, SSMEs have around 96%), we need 1.8kg/sec for that 0.1g
07:10<Celestar>or 18kg/sec for 1g
07:10<planetmaker>you are rather interested in d/dt m / M0
07:10<Eddi|zuHause3>our math teacher once wanted to derive the "rocket equation" with us once... it was a total mess :p
07:10<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: it takes FOUR DAMN lines
07:11<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, if you know physics ;)
07:11<Celestar>it's very very basic conversation of momentum :P
07:11<Celestar>planetmaker: I know the (maximum) exhaust velocity :)
07:12<Celestar>planetmaker: the bigger problem is: how large does a fusion drive need to be to heat 1.8kg(!!) of He(3)-D gas per second?
07:12<planetmaker>Celestar: a few 10 to max 100 km/s.
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07:12<Celestar>planetmaker: no
07:12<Celestar>planetmaker: 0.088c
07:13<Celestar>we're not talking Ion drives
07:13<Celestar>we're talking fusion drives (i.e. the plasma is directly ejected into space)
07:13*Roest must resist making sarcastic replies
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07:13<Celestar>0.088c for He(3)-D that is
07:13<Celestar>D-T is significantly lower
07:13<planetmaker>0.088 * 300000 km/s = 26 000 km/s hm...
07:14<planetmaker>Roest: feel free :P
07:14<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: basically the rocket equation is: M_s/M_e = exp (delta_v/c);
07:14<Celestar>where M_s and M_e are the masses of the vehicle at engine cutoff and at engine ignition
07:15<Roest>planetmaker: not here, on the forums
07:15<Celestar>delta_v is the velocity change you want (or rather the speed change you want)
07:15<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, and for multi-level rockets? ;)
07:15<Celestar>and c is the exhaust velocity of the engine
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07:15<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: then you just apply that equation for each stage separately, duh
07:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12914 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: Game crash when a spectator/server tried to show an engine with no owner when a NewGRF requested a specific variable.
07:15<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause3: it's quite unprobable to have a multi-stage fusion drive.
07:15<Eddi|zuHause3>the point was not getting to the equation, but setting up the differential equations to solve
07:15<Celestar>er ...
07:16<Celestar>the change in impulse equals the mass flow times the exhaust velocity
07:16<Celestar>\dot p = c * \dot m
07:16<Celestar>that's the differential equation to solve
07:16<yorick>peter1138! backport!@
07:17<Eddi|zuHause3>you are thinking too easy ;)
07:17<planetmaker>[13:09] <Celestar> F=\dot m * v <-- we were there a few minutes ago :P
07:17<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: I'm not.
07:17<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause3: just what is \dot p?
07:17<Celestar>\dot p = \dot m * v + \dot v * m
07:17<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway... i have more important things to do right now
07:18<Celestar>er .. so have I :P
07:18*Celestar goes back to his differential equations
07:19*teeg goes back to fixing missing database content :(
07:19*Eddi|zuHause3 goes back to tree traversion
07:19*planetmaker goes back to his report to write
07:19<teeg>and fun was had by all
07:20<planetmaker>^^ that's what it is about :)
07:21<Celestar>hehe
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07:21*Celestar thinks planetmaker and he is doing basically the same
07:21*planetmaker thinks that Celestar might be correct.
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07:22<Celestar>We have solve the set of conservation equations (mass, species, energy, momentum, angular momentum) for a large system. Only the source terms differ :P
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07:24<planetmaker>:) Yeah. Sometimes I do that (though seldom). I measure :)
07:24<Celestar>I don't
07:25<Celestar>I have people who measure (=
07:25*planetmaker analyses and processes data mostly though.
07:26<Celestar>that's what's coming up next week
07:26<planetmaker>Small tasks may be deligated to bachelor students :P
07:26<Celestar>1TB of data to process :S
07:26<planetmaker>^^ yeah. I've got 3 hd here...
07:26<Celestar>we only have one RAID array with 15TB (=
07:26<Celestar>er ..12 TB
07:27<planetmaker>we have to care about our computers ourselves. Nothing centralized.
07:27<Celestar>well, I take care about the comps
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07:27<Celestar>I did
07:27<Celestar>I passed the job onto someone less competent :S
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07:27<Celestar>so I have a 1TB hdd on my desk as a personal backup
07:28<planetmaker>I can't :S. But such disk is also present here on the desk...
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07:30<planetmaker>back to work.
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07:32<Eddi|zuHause3>what's a reasonable price for a 1TB HDD currently?
07:33<Celestar>180 EUR
07:33<Celestar>(without case)
07:35<Celestar>you can get 750GB for 89 EUR meanwhile ... totally nuts :P
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07:36<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i don't think 180€ is in my budget right now
07:39<pm|away>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi-Problem <-- btw. such discussions are always fun (like we had) :)
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07:42<Alberth>has town grow rate decreased since 0.5.3RC2?
07:43<Eddi|zuHause3>there are "cities" now
07:47<Alberth>I've been running a 0.5.3RC2 and rev12909 for a year in parallel (1 steam train running a passenger service), and I see a 150 people difference (585 vs 741) in one town and a neglectible difference in the other town (471 vs 475)
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07:48<Eddi|zuHause3>2 towns hardly make up a representative statistics ;)
07:49<Celestar>not really (=
07:49<Celestar>unless you start with the same random seed
07:49<SmatZ>you have the same random seed after loading a game
07:50<SmatZ>don't you?
07:50<Alberth>yeh, but from the same save game, already 150/600=25% difference in less than a year
07:50<Alberth>SmatZ: I'd expect so, although towns are not exactly the same any more
07:51<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, but the random decisions are different, because the code is different [desync]
07:51<SmatZ>yes
07:51<Celestar>aye
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09:45<Alberth>Great!
09:45<Alberth>I have a DifficultGameWindow object at my screen!!
09:45<Celestar>?
09:45<Alberth>a derived class of Window
09:45<SmatZ>hehe
09:46<SmatZ>Alberth: how do you plan to implement "FindWindowByID"?
09:46<SmatZ>and similiar functions
09:46<SmatZ>like "find window of type vehicle view with vehicle ID 33"
09:47<Alberth>atm, a window still has an ID and window_number
09:47<Alberth>I don't think we should remove those
09:47<@Belugas>DaleStan : ping
09:48<DaleStan>Pong
09:48<@Belugas>hou...
09:48<@Belugas>that was fast...
09:48<@Belugas>ok hello :)
09:48<DaleStan>Hello
09:48<@Belugas>1) cb 37 extra code : seems that my merory is playing me tricks
09:48<Alberth>Smatz: we may be able to find them with dynamic_cast<> if you really want
09:48<@Belugas>i though it was altready there
09:48<SmatZ>Alberth: really? I really do not want :)
09:49<@Belugas>DaleStan: I saw coding been done, but somehow, it never reached trunk
09:49<@Belugas>was a while ago
09:49<@Belugas>i THINK it was Frosch who wrote it,
09:49<SmatZ>Alberth: like testing if dynamic_cast throws an exception? (or how it works)
09:49<Alberth>Smatz: but that's more appropiate for hacky stuff like 'wndproc == BuildRailToolBar' checks ;)
09:49<@Belugas>DaleStan: but rightr now, he's away for a few days/weeks. So i cannot tell you about it,.
09:49<Alberth>dynamic testing returns NULL on failure
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09:50<@Belugas>DaleStan: "I very much want to add the definition that bits 8..15 of CB37 are set to 02 for the industry directory window." Could you refresh my mind? does not reing a bell
09:50<SmatZ>ah, that's not that bad... what about typeof? would it be useable there? and is it supported by all compilers used to compile OTTD? (I think it is not part of standard)
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09:51<DaleStan>Argh. "Bits 8..15 *of var 18* in CB 37" Sorry.
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09:51<Alberth>what does typeof do? (never heard of it)
09:52*Belugas looks in sources
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09:52<@peter1138>it lets you compare types
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09:53<DaleStan>The reason I don't want to reuse 01 for the industry directory window is that, with the extra-parameter-code, the two locations have different limits on the size of the additional parameters.
09:53<Alberth>I have never found a need for that yet.
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09:54<DaleStan>class A; class B:A; class C:A; Then, if you're dealing with a bunch of pointers-to-A, you can find out whether the object is an A or a B or a C.
09:55<Alberth>atm I am more worried about eliminating the 'custom' field, and trying to get stuff into trunk (which seems to have more or less come to a halt atm)
09:55<Alberth>DaleStan: Isn't virtual supposed to abstract from that problem?
09:55<Alberth>I do such stuff in Python, but that is a much more flexible language
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09:58<DaleStan>It's supposed to, yes, but it's not as powerful as checking types directly. You can't use a virtual to downcast, or to call a function that doesn't exist in the base class.
09:58<Alberth>hmm, Stroustrup speaks of typeid(), which seems to do the same.
09:59<@Belugas>DaleStan, so, if i understand it correctly, you want to have cb37 00 for funding, 01 for industry vie and 02 for directory?
09:59<hylje>they probably do, but with subtle differences varying with implementation
09:59<DaleStan>That value in the second byte of var 18, yes.
09:59<@Belugas>ok
09:59<+glx>shouldn't be hard to do
09:59<@peter1138>callback_param2 :D
09:59<@Belugas>indeed
10:00<@Belugas>industry_gui.cpp:81
10:00<+glx>it's a matter of adding some calls in the right place ;)
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10:01<@Belugas>and changing IndustryDirectoryWndProc, of course :)
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10:01<@Belugas>which reminds me i wanted to change tha window a little bit
10:02<@Belugas>the sorting/filterting buttons to be changed as dropdown or whatever...
10:04<DaleStan>And how about the extra data in GRF registers code? Or is that the part that you said Frosch is doing/has done?
10:05<@Belugas>yes, exactly. Although i'm not 100% sure it was frosch, rather 99% :)
10:09<DaleStan>Well then, I can wait. In fact, I discovered just yesterday that our DrawText function returns in a state such that calling it again will draw the second text as if it was concatenated to the first. So with some re-arranging, I might be able to make the nastiness go away. Dunno if your DrawText has the same feature, or if you'll need it.
10:11<DaleStan>Oh ... but carriage returns might cause issues. I'll have to think more about that.
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10:22<Onack>Has anyone here experienced game desync if you create a electriv locomotive with electric lines turned off with 1.6.1 RC1 64bit
10:23<Eddi|zuHause3>provide a bug report with a way to reproduce it
10:24<Onack>i get disconnected from server every time when i try to build electric engines
10:24<Rubidium>and the source of 1.6.1-RC1 ;) would be nice to see how that looks ;)
10:24<Eddi|zuHause3>haha ;)
10:24<@peter1138>1.6.1? nice
10:24<Onack>err
10:24<Onack>0.6.1 lol
10:24<Roest>next weeks lotto numbers would be cool too
10:25<@peter1138>just play with electrified rail on ;)
10:25<Onack>i got access to the server, but am i able to do it from console?
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10:25<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think it is designed to be switched on again
10:26<Onack>ok
10:26<Onack>well, thanks
10:26<Eddi|zuHause3>but you can try list_patches
10:26<Eddi|zuHause3>and then "patch <somethingwithelectrifiedrail> on"
10:26<@peter1138>it's not supposed to desync though
10:28<Onack>had to work to get on the server again cause i set all my 26 trains to auto-update to the electric
10:28<Onack>cant find anything in patches about electric
10:29<Onack>ill ask my friend to fix it locally then
10:29<Onack>and ill submit a report :)
10:29<Rubidium>disable_elrail(s)?
10:29<Eddi|zuHause3>"disable_elrails"
10:30<Eddi|zuHause3>must be set off
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10:34<Onack>And yea one more thing, even with outstanding rate in a city im not allowed to remove a square of road
10:35<Eddi|zuHause3>there's a patch setting "remove additional road"
10:35<Onack>hm
10:35<Eddi|zuHause3>the original rule does not let you remove any piece of road if it is connected at both ends
10:35<Eddi|zuHause3>which is _very_ limiting
10:35<Onack>ah
10:36<Onack>thanks
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11:06<pavel1269>hi
11:08<ooo4tom>hello
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11:12<yorick>what, at the moment, prevents YAPP from going into trunk (just curious), "certain (strict) guidelines to ensure stability and things like coding style"?
11:13<Eddi|zuHause3>i can't answer that one
11:15<yorick>obviously, it isn't the stability which prevents it, we even tested it on #openttdcoop.dev, and 0.6.1-RC1 is more unstable
11:16<Roest>i think it's you supporting it, they hate you
11:16<ooo4tom>i'd have to suggest the fact that it's almost 100revision, behind trunk
11:17<SmatZ>yorick: 0.6.1-RC1 is unstable, or YAPP on 0.6.1-RC1 is unstable?
11:17<ooo4tom>yapp_r12810 ------ trunk r12910
11:17<yorick>both?
11:17<Eddi|zuHause3>that is absolutely no reason, ooo4tom
11:17<yorick>yes, but it still applies
11:17<yorick>and works
11:17<yorick>just some #includes can't find their way
11:17<yorick>and autoptr, ofcource
11:18<yorick>that one is a problem
11:18<yorick>it got removed ;(
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11:22<Roest>it doesnt really complain about autoptrs
11:23<yorick>try to compile
11:24<yorick>as a workaround, I've just added it again
11:24<Roest>i'm not sure if you read the boards lately ( like last 3 weeks) but i do compile every now and then
11:25<Roest>but then i dont see any error messages since i'm blind and the computer ignores them
11:25<yorick>beyond 12857
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11:26<dragonhorseboy>hey
11:26<Roest>i have 97 downloads of my patchpack r12892, noone complained about yapp not working?
11:26<yorick>hmm...maybe it can go without
11:27<yorick>but the patch states it needs that file
11:27<yorick>grr...it can just work without the file
11:27<@peter1138>yap shouldn't need autoptr
11:28<yorick>line 1163 of the diff file
11:28<dragonhorseboy>hey yorick - how're you anyhow? ^-^
11:28<yorick>hello.
11:30-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
11:30<yorick>!peter1138! dobackport 12914 && release 0.6.1-RC2!
11:31<@peter1138>there's another thing to be backported, though it's not urgent
11:32<yorick>Quite.
11:32<@peter1138>12910 too
11:33<yorick>!docommit FS#1890
11:34*dragonhorseboy pokes yorick to a question of mine ;)
11:34<yorick>ask it :)
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11:36<yorick>the conditional order jump should be more hidden
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11:37<dragonhorseboy>yorick....again...how're you? :p
11:38<yorick>the same as the last time you asked
11:38<yorick>I still hate dentists
11:38<teeg>dentists are your friend. if in doubt, ask for more anaesthetics.
11:38<teeg>(worked dandy for me :P)
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11:41<dragonhorseboy>lol fair enough yorick ;)
11:41<dragonhorseboy>btw yorick you doing anyhow ^-^
11:41<dragonhorseboy><just asking
11:42<yorick>...
11:42<yorick>the same as the last time you asked
11:42<@peter1138>what's that in english?
11:42<yorick>I'm still doing as I did the last time you were asking me.
11:42<Roest>he might be really interested in how you're doing
11:43<@peter1138>yorick... how *ARE* you doing?
11:43<yorick>Roest, why would he?
11:43<Brianetta>zzz
11:43<Roest>beats me, i i'm german idon't understand the concept of smalltalk
11:43<dragonhorseboy>yorick fair enough...btw want try a bit more of the game? I managed to build the highway almost over halfway before stopping low on cash .. could use some of your $$ :p
11:46<Roest>The TTD-style orders don't work in your (excellent!) r12892m-patch; do you happen to know whether that's a general OTTD problem? I now get 'go non-stop to...' automatically for all orders, and 'go to' always stops anywhere in between, no matter whether I enable or disable that patch option.
11:46<Roest>anyone know what that means?
11:46<Roest>damn i should play the game some time again
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11:47<yorick>I wonder if it would be a problem
11:47<yorick>that is intended
11:47<yorick>non-stop makes it stop no-were inbetween
11:47<Rubidium>Roest: the patch setting is only there as default for new orders
11:47<yorick>normal makes it stop everywhere
11:47<yorick>non-stop doesn't mean 'via'
11:48<Rubidium>and now you get 4 different stopping strategies instead of 3
11:48<Rubidium>and of those 3 2 are mutually exclusive
11:48<Roest>so the answer is, everything is fine and that's normal behavior?
11:49<yorick>yes
11:49<yorick>what do you really want?
11:49<Roest>money, sex
11:49<yorick>something you can do with orders
11:50<Rubidium>Roest Gigolo!
11:50<Roest>me? nothing, i was just relaying a question i didnt have the answer for
11:51<yorick>he wants sex with trains :o
11:51<yorick>for money :o
11:51<yorick>a blind person :o
11:52<dragonhorseboy>lol
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12:02<yorick>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1958 <-- can be closed, he user just fails to have any more cpu left to run faster
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12:19<Rubidium>it isn't a 0.5 savegame either, so can't test any regressions either
12:19<SmatZ>yorick: yeah :) but maybe there is a bug causing performance slowdowns
12:20<yorick>ships
12:20<SmatZ>he uses OPF
12:20<yorick>trains
12:20<yorick>only 13
12:20<yorick>aircraft?
12:20<SmatZ>NewAI I would gues
12:20<SmatZ>s
12:21<SmatZ>and 502RVs
12:21<yorick>yeah
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12:26-!-xkrchnav [~xkrchnav@ro-chr.netdatacomm.cz] has joined #openttd
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12:32<Rubidium>how many ships are in that game?
12:33<Rubidium>50% of CPU goes to RVs, 38% to ships
12:33<Rubidium>3% to all other vehicles
12:34<Rubidium>6% for tile/industry/town/station loops
12:34<Rubidium>the rest basically to loading the savegame
12:35<teeg>which profiler are you using?
12:35<Rubidium>gprof
12:35<teeg>ah ok. the one I was about to look at yesterday then. excellent.
12:36-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F54B2F.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:37-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c58.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
12:37-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
12:38<yorick>Bjarni!
12:38<SmatZ>Bjarne Stroustrup !
12:38<dragonhorseboy>rubidium...one dumb question...
12:38<dragonhorseboy>these 50%/38% cpu .. is that with original or yapf selected?
12:39<@Bjarni>I saw somebody highlighting me and I thought "it's properly yorick, who is doing his shit again"
12:39<Rubidium>resp. yapf and original
12:40<dragonhorseboy>rubidium hmm ok because when I was running 0.6.0 server I noticed that somehow the ship pathfinder was defaulted to original instead of older yapf this time and I noticed that oddly the ships routed much better and didn't even use much cpu
12:40<dragonhorseboy>not sure if its just me or not tho
12:41<Rubidium>YAPF isn't meant to be used for ships
12:41<Rubidium>it will find better routes for ships though
12:41<Sacro>Bjarni!
12:43-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
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12:55<dih>hey ladies
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12:58<ooo4tom>ladies ?
12:59*dih points at ooo4tom
12:59<dih>there's one ^^
12:59<ooo4tom>:|
12:59<dih>:-P
12:59<st6>awww
12:59<ooo4tom>:'(
13:00*dih pats ooo4tom on the head
13:00<dih>there there
13:00<teeg>I was going to say "why the long face?", but then again :| isn't exactly a long-faced smilie.
13:00<Sacro>HOUSTON
13:00<Sacro>WE HAVE A CUBE
13:00<st6>. .
13:00<st6>_______
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13:00<dih>that is a 'wide' smile....
13:00<Sacro>.
13:00<Sacro>damn
13:00<Sacro>. .
13:00<dih>^^
13:00<Sacro>[_____________}
13:01<dih>yuck
13:01<Sacro>right then
13:01<dih>Sacro: that aint no nice smily
13:01<st6>long like
13:01<st6>. .
13:01<st6> __
13:03<dih> _ _
13:03<dih>|o| |o|
13:03<dih>
13:03<dih> ..
13:03<dih>
13:03<dih>\ /
13:03<dih> '....'
13:03<ooo4tom>i need help, i can't decide between Ubuntu 8.04 or PclinuxOS, i would like to know what you all think ?
13:04<dih>i think you should avoid starting flame wars ^^
13:04<dih>other peoples preferences have nothing to do with what YOU may or may not like
13:05<ooo4tom>you have a point,thats all i seem to do these days
13:05<dih>you need to know what distro you prefere working with, this may include looking at a bunch of different distroes to decide though
13:05<dih>grap some livecd's is what i'd suggest
13:05<dih>have a look at them - if your initial feeling is 'yuck' boot another distro
13:06<dih>pick 2 or 3 you most are comfortable with, and start installing
13:06<dih>getting used to how things are installed, where files are located, etc.
13:06<dih>perhaps www.linuxquestions.org can be of help to you
13:07<+glx>rpm based or deb based can be important too
13:07<Sacro>ooo4tom: ArchLinux
13:08<teeg>: |
13:08<Rubidium>ooo4tom: you should go for itron
13:08<@Belugas>?
13:09<teeg>ooo4tom: I personally run kubuntu 8.04 these days, but I hear pclinuxos' 3d thingies are rather spiffy.
13:09<@Belugas>ho...
13:09<@Belugas>Itron
13:09<@Belugas>not TRON
13:09<@Belugas>sorry, my mIRC just flashed :)
13:09<teeg>Belugas: you have a highlight on http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084827/ ? :P
13:10<Rubidium>no, he likes Tron; the most used OS
13:10<@Belugas>no, i've got one on http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Tron
13:12<yorick>hello dih
13:13<yorick>[- [O] V [O] -] :)
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13:16<dih>hello yorick
13:16<yorick>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/snow-in-temperate.patch <-- hmm... it fails for newindustries
13:19<dih>yorick: that patch was updated to wwottdtd
13:19<dih>so it's not very new
13:21<yorick>yes, but wwottdgd also had newindustries
13:21<dih>yes - but is way back
13:21-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host65-235-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:21<dih>perhaps start at the rev of wwottdgd
13:21<dih>and work your way up
13:22<Wolf01>hello
13:22<dih>hi
13:23-!-nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.104.185] has joined #openttd
13:23<yorick>dih, it was already broken with wwottdgd
13:23<yorick>just noone noticed
13:24<dih>?
13:24-!-nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.104.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:24<dih>in what way?
13:24<dih>what's broken?
13:25-!-nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.104.185] has joined #openttd
13:25<yorick>the drawing of newindustries above snowlevel
13:25<dih>ah
13:25<dih>yeah
13:25<dih>ok
13:25<dih>^^
13:25<yorick>it draws other things
13:27-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
13:27<yorick>default industries don't have snowy versions, do they?
13:28<nicfer>http://www.geocities.jp/rinkaku89/pachigame/19_fc_win2000.html
13:28<nicfer>lol
13:28<nicfer>(for lazy men... windows 2000 on nes
13:28<yorick>but in case they do, and a grf wants to overwrite the arctic industries to look different, it draws the arctic version
13:28<yorick>but most newindustries grfs are snowline-detecting
13:30*yorick is probably incorrect, because it does it with the ground sprite
13:30<Ammler>yorick: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=684963#p684963
13:31<Ammler>tested with canada set
13:31<yorick>that's the one
13:31<yorick>try to test it with pbs ;)
13:31<yorick>pbi*
13:33<Ammler>pbi has snowline support?
13:35<yorick>offcourse it does
13:37-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:37<Ammler>http://a.imagehost.org/0219/yorick_pbi.png
13:37<Ammler>? no idea, what you mean...
13:38<yorick>try with an IO mine
13:38<Ammler>IO?
13:38<Ammler>Iron Ore?
13:38<yorick>Iron Ore
13:38<@Belugas>[13:27] <yorick> but most newindustries grfs are snowline-detecting <-- do you have CLEAR evidence of that?
13:38<Patrick`_>mmm, ion
13:38<Ammler>there is no snowi iron ore
13:39<Ammler>but it works...
13:40<yorick>Belugas, http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php/Image:Snowmines.png
13:41<yorick>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php/Pikka%27s_Basic_Industries
13:41<@Belugas>and thisd is MOST newindustries grf ????
13:41<@Belugas>come on...
13:42<yorick>you're not supposed to read every work I say
13:42<yorick>word*
13:42<@peter1138>i don't
13:42<@Belugas>well... don't write them then
13:44<Tefad>i think by most he meant all the ones he uses, eg just PBI ; )
13:44<yorick>finally someone who understands :)
13:45<Ammler>yorick: read the wiki
13:45<Tefad>but yeah, your wording sucks.
13:45<Ammler>there is no change for coal mine at temp
13:46<Ammler>I would bet, that would also happen in TTDP, did you try?
13:46<yorick>SPR_FLAT_SNOWY_TILE is meant to be a snow groundsprite, no?
13:46<yorick>well...it's a ship
13:51<SmatZ>is it a ship?
13:52<yorick>no, I had a grf loaded
13:52<SmatZ>hehe
13:52<yorick>without that grf, it's a questionmark
13:55<dih>offlineimap is sweet :-)
13:55<dih>i can sync 2 imap accounts both ways :-)
13:55<ln>http://dokkeveien.uib.no/frode/vossnow/storebilete%5Cfoto41140.jpg
13:56<dih>would not wanna stand to close to that thing when it runs by
13:57<Onack>very nice photo
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13:57<SmatZ>yes
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14:03<yorick>that snow in temperate patch has quite a few bugs
14:03<yorick>newhouses, newindustries aren't supported
14:03-!-Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d04c4ea.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
14:04<Roujin>are buoys broken in trunk?
14:04<yorick>why?
14:04<Roujin>i noticed something was wrong with them, but my build was altered..
14:04<yorick>the "unknown destination" thing?
14:04<Roujin>yes
14:05<yorick>can't go there
14:05<Roujin>so it's in trunk
14:05<Roujin>..
14:05<yorick>well...my altered build also has a problem
14:05<Roujin>flyspray bugreport already existing?
14:05<yorick>what patches?
14:05<Roujin>no released ones, was fiddling with the code on a patch of my own
14:06-!-Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-092-072-002-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
14:06<yorick>I guess there is really a problem
14:06<yorick>could anyone else test?
14:06<Roujin>i'll test with a clean build of newest trunk...
14:08<yorick>the rename button is also grayed out
14:09-!-Barry [~chatzilla@bg1078138.hum.uva.nl] has joined #openttd
14:09<Roujin>probably some pointer going nuts
14:12-!-Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-092-072-002-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:16<yorick>Roujin, your screenshot is broken
14:17<SmatZ>Roujin: you broke buoys!
14:17-!-Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-092-072-002-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
14:17<SmatZ>strange how it could happen
14:17<SmatZ>probably removing of autoptr
14:18<Roujin>oo
14:18<Roujin>i broke flyspray with my screenshot oO
14:18<SmatZ>yeah
14:18<SmatZ>:-x
14:18<yorick>huh?
14:18<yorick>you broke the flies with a flyspray?
14:19<SmatZ>you probably canceled file upload
14:19<Roujin>i'll try again..
14:19<SmatZ>Roujin: it's ok
14:20<yorick>nope
14:20<yorick>your screenshot broke flyspray
14:20<SmatZ>not really bette :)
14:20<SmatZ>hehe
14:20<Roujin>wtf oO
14:20<Roujin>i hope i can still upload diffs...
14:20<yorick>revenge of the flies, part 3!
14:20<SmatZ>0.6.1-RC1 broken, too
14:21<yorick>and whatnot?
14:21<SmatZ>that's worse
14:21-!-Ehtirno [~ehtirno@hybellovas166.grm.hia.no] has joined #openttd
14:21<yorick>!peter1138: blamed! gofixing! gobackporting! goreleasing!
14:22-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138
14:22-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [gtfo]
14:22-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138
14:22-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:22<@peter1138>whoops i slipped
14:22<ln>a kick is an invite
14:22<SmatZ>:-D
14:23<yorick>!yourfault!
14:23<Sacro>so, ottd.info
14:23<Sacro>@seen Karen_
14:23<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Karen_ was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 2 hours, 50 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Karen_> Oh, my boss
14:23<yorick>he banned Karen_
14:23<yorick>;)
14:24<mynetdude|Away>lol
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14:27<yorick>it doesn't show up in the list of stations aswell
14:28<Roujin>i tell you some pointer is pointing to nowhereness...
14:28<Tefad>ottd.info's background makes my eyes hurt
14:28-!-ProfFrink [~proffrink@90.211.131.74] has joined #openttd
14:28<Tefad>so many artifacts : (
14:28<@Bjarni>sounds cool
14:29<@Bjarni>if you are an archaeology
14:29*Roest hates pointers
14:30<Tefad>pointers are your friend
14:31<Roest>i like it how you can use pointers in c#, after declaring an area of code as unsafe
14:31<Tefad>holy crap that bg image is huge too.. 250KB?!
14:32<Roest>it's 2008, 250kb isnt huge
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14:32<Tefad>it is for such a horrible looking image
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14:42<Roujin>i hope it works now
14:42<Roujin>grrrr
14:42<Roujin>why doesn't it work ><
14:42<SmatZ>maybe disk is full
14:43<Roujin>whose, mine? I'm trying to upload something, not download oO
14:43<Roujin>or you mean the server?
14:43<SmatZ>yes, the serevr
14:44-!-Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37edb.bb.sky.com] has quit []
14:44<dih>haha
14:45-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
14:46<Wolf01>sacro, tell me the solution of the first riddle.. see I have 2 torchlight-vaginas never used here :D
14:47<Roest>lol
14:47<Roest>i wouldnt count on the never used
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14:48<Wolf01>(I wouldn't bet on me if I'm telling the truth)
14:48<Wolf01>(so shhh, sacro can't read text between ellipses)
14:49<@Belugas>even more if those ellipses are looking like bra
14:49<@Belugas>or breast jumping out of bras...
14:49<@Belugas>or whatever
14:49<@Belugas>shut up belugas
14:50<SmatZ>bra? breast?
14:51<@Belugas>obsessed...
14:51<@Belugas>how spring can affect youth...incredible
14:52<Roest>not a bad obseesion tho
14:52<Roest>-e+s
14:54<Wolf01>today a girl of the other company that shares the office with us came with a nice.. shirt with no neck... ehm how to tell that she have a nice breast? :D
14:54<SmatZ>hehe
14:54<SmatZ>:-D
14:54<|Jeroen|>just stare at them all day, she will know what you mean then
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14:55<Wolf01>I always stare at them all day, is impossible to look around, them are magnets!
14:55<Wolf01>*they
14:55<SmatZ>:-D
14:56<SmatZ>she must be happy
14:56<Roest>you should sue her
14:56<SmatZ>everyone staring at her breasts
14:57<Sacro>Wolf01: fleshlight in exchange for question 1? not bad
14:57<Wolf01>eheh
14:57<Sacro>first question is easy
14:57<Wolf01>he knows the exact name too
14:57<Sacro>when did the devs eat cake
14:58<Sacro>or for what
14:58<Wolf01>aaaaaah
14:58<Wolf01>me stupid
14:58<Wolf01>that cake
14:58<Sacro>Karen_ posted it in here loads
14:58<Sacro>now you'll be wanting my address for that parcel...
14:59<Wolf01>XD
14:59<Roest>:)
14:59<Sacro>i wonder if i need to start subversion for my repo to work...
15:00<Roest>on windows?
15:00<Sacro>no
15:00<Sacro>i have a linux box running svnserve
15:00<Wolf01>http://www.fleshlight.com/ here is my submit form, place there your email and i'll contact you with fantastic offers :D
15:00<Sacro>but i can't get visual studioto work
15:00<Roest>vs doesnt have native svn support
15:00<Roujin>meh, shouldn't have stopped BF'ing at 1000 :P
15:00<Sacro>Roujin: i have AnkhSVN
15:01-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F54B2F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:02<Roest>i used to run svn serve as a service on a windows box or as a apache module
15:02<Roest>so not much help here with linux
15:03<Roest>found it rather complicated to set up, like most open source software :/
15:03<@peter1138>what do you need svnserve for?
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15:07*Belugas likes very much his VisualVSN stuff, at home
15:07<@Belugas>works like a breeze
15:09<Roest>to bad it only works with some registry hack on vs2008
15:09<Roest>ankhsvn
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15:31<Sacro>how do i use svn to remove all the .svn files
15:31<SmatZ>svn export
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15:57<SmatZ>hmm apache http://88.146.45.107/ why does it show this :-x
15:57<Rubidium>because that's what in the wwwroot
15:58<SmatZ>well... it used to show default apache page before upgrade :-x
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16:43<dih>_mark_
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16:53<Eddi|zuHause3>_pfennig_
16:54<Karen__>i give you 10 minutes to ask me one yes/no question, which i shall answer
16:56*Wolf01 looks at the bed
16:56<Wolf01>night
16:56<dih>night
16:56-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host65-235-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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16:57<Rubidium>Karen__: do you like to get banned?
16:57<Rubidium>oh noes... you boss is coming!
16:58<Karen__>if that is how you want to play this game: yes
16:59<Rubidium>I didn't ban
16:59<Rubidium>it's just that you've got kind of a split personality between the forum and the channel
17:00<Karen__>same time tomorrow then? good night!
17:00-!-Karen__ [~91764886@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [Quit: TheGrebs.com CGI:IRC]
17:01<@Bjarni>looks like the boss showed up again :P
17:01<Prof_Frink>Hmm, she also appears to be unable to count
17:02<@Bjarni>[22:54:31] <Karen__> i give you 10 minutes to ask me one yes/no question, which i shall answer
17:02<@Bjarni>[22:56:12] * Wolf01 looks at the bed
17:02<@Bjarni>LOL
17:02<Rubidium>and she actually said "yes" to that!
17:02<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Next time she appears, should I just ask a nonsense question?
17:02<Rubidium>Prof_Frink: ofcourse
17:03<@Belugas>maybe she understood "spanked" instead of "banned"
17:03<@Bjarni>ask her how Wolf01 is in bed :P
17:04<@Bjarni>hmm
17:04<@Bjarni>maybe not
17:04<@Belugas>meanwhile, it's time to go home and play with my son for a while
17:04<@Bjarni>we shouldn't ask something where we don't want to know the answer
17:04<@Belugas>see
17:04<@Belugas> you
17:04<@Bjarni>bye Belugas
17:04<dih>cu Belugas
17:05<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: I was going to go with the QI approach
17:05<@Bjarni>QI?
17:05<Prof_Frink>Ask a question which everyone knows the answer to, and that answer is /wrong/.
17:05<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Look it up on YouTube
17:05<@Bjarni>maybe not
17:06<@Bjarni>I will not make the searches you tell me to
17:06<@Bjarni>it went bad last time
17:06-!-Gekz [~brendan@121.218.75.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:06<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: OK, look it up on the bbc website, then use your judgment
17:07<Prof_Frink>(Although the beeb has been known to be goatse'd)
17:08-!-planetmaker is now known as pm|away
17:09<Sacro>WHAT A WASTE OF A QUESTION
17:10<@peter1138>ban evasion, eh?
17:10-!-mode/#openttd [+b Karen*!*@*] by peter1138
17:10<@Bjarni>why did you ban her?
17:10<+glx>you failed
17:10<@Bjarni>that too
17:11<Sacro>he didn't
17:11<+glx>Karen__ [~91764886@webuser.thegrebs.com] a rejoint #openttd
17:11<+glx>oh right
17:11<+glx>massive Karen* ban
17:12-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
17:12<@Bjarni>now I know why there are only guys in here
17:12<@Bjarni>whenever a female shows up you ban her
17:13<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Don't be silly.
17:13<Prof_Frink>There are no females on the internets.
17:13<SmatZ>hehe
17:13<SmatZ>really, why do you ban her (or him or whatever)
17:14<Prof_Frink>That said, Tenebrae does a bloody good impression
17:14<Rubidium>Prof_Frink: then update our knowledgebase for that kind of facts
17:14<Rubidium>as it doesn't state that
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17:15<@Bjarni><SmatZ> really, why do you ban her (or him or whatever) <-- I believe it could be referred to as "it"
17:15<@Bjarni>but that doesn't answer the why question
17:16<ln>because it is stupid, that's why.
17:16-!-Digitalfox_Home [~chatzilla@bl7-182-14.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
17:19<SmatZ>well, it spent time creating ottd.info, and I really don't undrestand this behaviour
17:19-!-Leviath [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:20<SmatZ>I would rather say it was nice from her/him
17:21<Prof_Frink>Hmm, should I do it?
17:21<Prof_Frink>for i in {0..1000000}; do echo --referer=http://www.ottd.info/page/10000/ http://www.ottd.info/page/$i/; done
17:21<SmatZ>:)
17:21<Prof_Frink>s/echo/wget/
17:21<SmatZ>there are people who did it without brute force
17:22<SmatZ>I wonder how :)
17:22<Sacro>Prof_Frink: off you go
17:25<@Bjarni>Karen posted the link to the r10k cake twice last night without any explanation :/
17:25<+glx>openttd.cpp:425 <-- I clearly fail at that one
17:26<SmatZ> generation_seed = InteractiveRandom();
17:26<SmatZ>glx: ^^^ ?
17:26<SmatZ>Bjarni: r10k ?
17:26<ln>r10000
17:27<SmatZ>aha
17:27<+glx>the first one is easy
17:27<SmatZ>why is it easy? if you haven't told me... :)
17:28-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
17:29<SmatZ>ah yes, I understand
17:29<SmatZ>hmm hard one
17:30-!-elmex [~elmex@e180067155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:30<Prof_Frink>glx: Are you using some kind of crazy counting system?
17:30<+glx>no
17:31<Prof_Frink>Because on whichever copy of openttd.cpp I use, line 425 is " case 'h':"
17:32<+glx>The page has to be numeric and between 0 and 10000000 <-- your brute force script is incomplete
17:32<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't understand that riddle either... there is nothing remotely close to that line that indicates a relevant number
17:32<+glx> case 'e': _switch_mode = SM_EDITOR; break; <-- openttd:425@10000
17:33<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, that occured to me, too, but it doesn't make any more sense either
17:33<Eddi|zuHause3>i haven't checked what it is in 0.6.0, but it can't be far off these lines
17:33<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: What I said.
17:34<Prof_Frink>0.6.0, trunk and 0.6.1RC1
17:34<+glx>would be logical to use r10000 though
17:35-!-lolEee [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
17:36<SmatZ>do you think you can take it logically?
17:36<Prof_Frink>glx: Unfortunately the "404" errors return 200 OK
17:37<SmatZ>you can grep for 404
17:37<Prof_Frink>SmatZ: Yeah, but that means getting the whole file
17:37<Prof_Frink>not just the headers
17:41<Sacro>glx: what does SM_EDITOR map to in the enum decleration?
17:42<+glx>2
17:42<+glx>but that doesn't work
17:42-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:43<SmatZ>that line is in the background image
17:43<SmatZ>but I don't know if it helps
17:43-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
17:46<SmatZ>!logs
17:46<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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17:47<+glx>hmm I killed the server
17:48<Rubidium>guess you got locked out
17:48<+glx>it stopped when getting page 38
17:48<+glx>0 to 37 went well
17:50<Fingon>728 bytes per page, 10,000,000 pages to check, so barely 7 Gig... should be possible
17:51<SmatZ>glx: it works for me
17:51<Rubidium>but you get locked out after X succesive quick tries
17:51<+glx>[23:49:39] <Karen_> Dear glx,
17:51<+glx>[23:49:48] <Karen_> Brute-force is not a nice way to find the solution.
17:51<+glx>[23:49:56] <glx> exact
17:51<+glx>[23:50:05] <Karen_> If you promise not to do it again, the ban gets removed.
17:51<+glx>[23:50:30] <glx> ok
17:51<+glx>there's a security
17:52<@Bjarni>if you don't use brute force she will not be banned anymore?
17:52<+glx>I was banned
17:52<SmatZ>if she knows it was you
17:53<Fingon>the question is now : how fast is "successive", and is the logging done based on cookie or on ip
17:53<Fingon>in other words : how much pc's / proxies will we need :)
17:53<Rubidium>hmmm...
17:54<Rubidium>guess you need to overtake a spamnet
17:54<SmatZ>or create your own
17:54<@Bjarni>both are doable
17:54<Fingon>at 1 check a second it's only 115 days
17:54<SmatZ>there are hundreds of thousands OTTD users
17:54<@Bjarni>if you know how
17:54<Zuu>add it to next nightly :)
17:54<Fingon>with 1 ip
17:54<@Bjarni>Zuu: LOL
17:54<Fingon>lol
17:55<@Bjarni>for all you know we have done that for years :P
17:55<SmatZ>:)
17:55<Prof_Frink>Hmm, I can still access it
17:56<Prof_Frink>(I slightly hit enter on that `for` command)
17:57<Rubidium>what about spoofing IP addresses?
17:57<SmatZ>maybe it is a cookie
17:57<Rubidium>at some point in time the 'bad guys' database will overflow
17:57<Fingon>won't work Rubidium, you need the reply
17:57<Prof_Frink>You can tell it's a channel full of geeks
17:57-!-Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
17:57<Prof_Frink>"I don't know the answer - let's hack it"
17:57<Rubidium>and then you crash their server ;)
17:57<Fingon>xD
17:58<Rubidium>Prof_Frink: what would you then do with schizofrenic people?
17:58<Zuu>Prof_Frink: Lol:)
17:58<Fingon>it's not hacking, it's just a creative solution for a difficult problem
17:59<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: They can keep each other amused.
18:00<dih>sup ladies?
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause3><Fingon> [...] is the logging done based on cookie or on ip <- you cannot solve anything without cookie
18:09<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, good night, have to get up early...
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18:22<Fiddler>my guess about who is "karen" : jonty-comp (Forum Games Moderator) ?
18:25<Prof_Frink>Nah, I think jonty-comp's jonty-comp
18:28<Fiddler>to me, that "10000" related to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=37184 (10,000 OpenTTD topics!)...
18:31<Sacro>Fiddler: i doubt it's jonty
18:35-!-mynetdude [~mynetdude@208.74.131.93] has joined #openttd
18:36<SmatZ>:)
18:39<mynetdude>brb, testing some mIRC settings
18:39-!-mynetdude [~mynetdude@208.74.131.93] has left #openttd []
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18:42<mynetdude>bummer can't link nicks on this server
18:43-!-lolEee [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:45<Prof_Frink>Yes, you can.
18:45<mynetdude>how? I went through the nickserv help set commands, I didn't see a link command
18:46<Prof_Frink>[23:44:30] -NickServ(services@services.oftc.net)- LINK: Link this nickname to a master nickname.
18:46<mynetdude>and is there any way I can retrieve a list of linked nicks?
18:46<mynetdude>cool thanks
18:46-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
18:47<SmatZ>t. hanks? http://swisscharts.com/actorimages/tom_hanks.jpg
18:52*Dominik is at the 5th riddle now
18:52-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
18:52<SmatZ>Dominik: wat
18:52<SmatZ>how
18:52<Fiddler>uh ???
18:52<mynetdude>brb
18:52-!-mynetdude [~mynetdude@208.74.131.93] has left #openttd [bye]
18:52<Dominik>i won't tell :D
18:53<Dominik>but the 3rd riddle involves cows and pigs. kinda
18:53<+glx>what about the second?
18:53-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
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18:53<SmatZ>Dominik: you are creating the riddle :)
18:54<Digitalfox_Home>You guys really liking the Riddle :p
18:54<Dominik>the second isn't that hard really. but i don't want to give any clues
18:54<SmatZ>Digitalfox_Home: some do, some don't :)
18:54<Dominik>and i only came across it after you guys mentioned it
18:55<Digitalfox_Home>So what do you think the prize will be? =0
18:55<Dominik>i doubt there'll be a price
18:55<SmatZ>yeah, I spent a lot of time thinking how that line 425 on that image can be connected with any number... I tried tile numbers from intro game that were under that text
18:55<SmatZ>but I failed :-x
18:55<SmatZ>Katrin_ is the price
18:56<+glx>SmatZ: it's Karen ;)
18:56<SmatZ>Karen :)
18:57-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:57*Fiddler still trying to profile "Karen"...
18:58<SmatZ>you are obsessed about her, aren't you Fiddler :)
18:58<Digitalfox_Home>And who is this "Karen" ?
18:59<SmatZ>well, I like the style how it is done
18:59<SmatZ>noone knows anything
18:59<SmatZ>as far as I know :)
19:01<Digitalfox_Home>Let's see what will happen :\
19:01<Digitalfox_Home>Nonetheless who ever it is already spend money on the open.info domain :p
19:02<SmatZ>so true
19:02<mynetdude>..:: Xfire IRC Status Script De-Activated ::..
19:02<SmatZ>and time with making that riddle
19:02<SmatZ>and ideas etc.
19:02<Digitalfox_Home>yeah SmatZ :)
19:03<SmatZ>mynetdude: using any kind of away messages and similiar automated text is forbidden here
19:03<Fiddler>she's quite good at hiding... it's teasing :)
19:03<SmatZ>:-)
19:04<SmatZ>"The internet: Where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents."
19:04<mynetdude>SmatZ I'm working on keeping it from displaying thats why I deactivated it, unfortunately the script writer didn't bother to include silent deactivations or such
19:04<SmatZ>I am not sure if she is a girl
19:04<SmatZ>mynetdude: it's bad, someone will probably ban you if you don't change it :-x
19:05<mynetdude>SmatZ no worries its not going to show here
19:08<SmatZ>mynetdude: by the way, did you start any new game? bigger than the last one?
19:09<Digitalfox_Home>Dominik still at the 5th riddle?
19:09<Dominik>Digitalfox_Home: yes
19:09<Digitalfox_Home>Hard?
19:10<mynetdude>SmatZ I did, I barely started though a 512x256 map
19:10<mynetdude>been having problems with some realism questions so I was doing some research and could not come to a good conclusion
19:11<Dominik>Digitalfox_Home: dunno until i solve it. i have no clue where the number is ^^
19:11<SmatZ>mynetdude: OTTD works on a certain level of abstraction, don't try to make everything realistic
19:12<mynetdude>SmatZ oh no not that kind of realism, I just wanted to know whether stations had platforms in 1930 and whether or not semaphores were available in that time era and whether building tracks on ottd slopes were considered realistic as going up a hill or such
19:14<SmatZ>nice :)
19:16<SmatZ>Fiddler: have you found anything?
19:16-!-lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
19:18<+glx>found the 2nd number :)
19:18<SmatZ>glx: good job
19:18<Fiddler>SmatZ: I think "Karen" could be here right now :/
19:19<SmatZ>Fiddler: probably is, there are probably more her friends :)
19:19<Dominik>glx: pretty easy when you know where to look, isn't it?
19:20<SmatZ>argh :)
19:20<+glx>well the problem is to now the right rev to use
19:20<SmatZ>I hope it is not "red on green" or "green on red" :-x
19:20<SmatZ>like red number on grass
19:21<Dominik>nah, that's what the 3rd riddle is about ;)
19:21<+glx>as openttd.cpp:425 can be many things
19:21<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Any suggestions on the first #?
19:22<Dominik>true, but i must've been lucky on my first guess
19:22<+glx>the first one is very easy Chicago_Rail_Authority
19:22<+glx>everybody knows it
19:22<SmatZ>I wouldn't do #1 without clues
19:22<Chicago_Rail_Authority>k... just barely started to look into the whole thing 2 min ago
19:23<+glx>knowing ottd story, first one is easy
19:23<Chicago_Rail_Authority>ahh
19:23<Chicago_Rail_Authority>good point
19:23-!-NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
19:23<Chicago_Rail_Authority>done
19:23<Chicago_Rail_Authority>on to #2...
19:24<Dominik>whoever created the riddle knows more about openttd then most people in this channel i think
19:26<Fiddler>Dominik; that's what makes me think he's on the channel...
19:27<Digitalfox_Home>Dominik maybe an old Open DEV or an active one ;)
19:27<Dominik>i think openttd devs have other things to do then create riddles ;)
19:28<Dominik>e.g. solving them ;)
19:28<Digitalfox_Home>Dominik there are the retired ones :p
19:29<SmatZ>hehe
19:29<SmatZ>did anyone say owen?
19:31<Fiddler>well, looking at the early revs...
19:33<Dominik>i'm off to bed. good night!
19:33-!-Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-092-072-010-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:33-!-thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B788CD.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:33<SmatZ>well, Celestar is sometimes at IRC ... but I don't remember seeing other early devs more often than few times a year
19:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12915 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1960](r12857): don't initialize Station struct with tile=0, buoys will never change that value
19:35<+glx>SmatZ: he lacks time
19:36<Eddi|zuHause3>Dominik is a retired developer ;)
19:37-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c58.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:38<Digitalfox_Home>Eddi|zuHause3 true, and it's nice to see old dev's still around :)
19:38<Fiddler>I've been looking r1 to r120 so far...
19:39<Zuu>You don't think it is r10000?
19:39<SmatZ>Fiddler: 12800 revisions to go
19:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i have my doubts that this would be leading anywhere ;)
19:43<Fiddler>hmmm... I can't connect Owen's avatar to any Karen... :/
19:45<SmatZ>It's owen on his avatar!
19:45<Fiddler>lol
19:45<SmatZ>*in
19:46-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Night All.]
19:47<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Have many people been able to figure out the 2nd one?
19:47<Eddi|zuHause3>i know of two
19:47<Eddi|zuHause3>no, three
19:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12916 /trunk/src/thread_pthread.cpp: -Fix: let ThreadObject_pthread::IsRunning() behave the same way as ThreadObject_Win32::IsRunning() does
19:49<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: did you, too
19:49<SmatZ>?
19:49<Eddi|zuHause3>;)
19:49<SmatZ>that was quick :)
19:50<Eddi|zuHause3>no, i actually had it right a while ago, but i got told to enable cookies ;)
19:50<SmatZ>:)
19:52<Eddi|zuHause3>meaning, yesterday
19:53<Eddi|zuHause3>but i am stuck on the third one right now, and i really should be sleeping
19:53<+glx>the 3rd one is tricky
19:53<Chicago_Rail_Authority>anyone lose their connection to the site?
19:54<+glx>I did after I tried to hack it
19:54<Chicago_Rail_Authority>heh
19:54<+glx>but know it's ok
19:55<SmatZ>hehe
19:55<Chicago_Rail_Authority>maybe I was guessing too frequently... oh well
20:00<Zuu>I'm going to have nightmares about 425 :p
20:01<SmatZ>:-D
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20:02<Zuu>The fact that 42 the answer of universe is in it does not make it better :p
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20:06<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe you'll find out in 7.5 million years ;)
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20:14<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: THE THIRD?
20:14<Sacro>HOW DID YOU GET THERE?
20:14<Eddi|zuHause3>BY SOLVING
20:14<Eddi|zuHause3>THE SECOND
20:14<+glx>but now I'm stuck on the third
20:15<Eddi|zuHause3>dumb question, really ;)
20:15<SmatZ>:)
20:16<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: what is the solution?
20:16<Fiddler>is 2nd one so obvious that any hint would make it too easy ?
20:16<Eddi|zuHause3>yes
20:17<+glx>not that obvious
20:17<Sacro>HELP MEEEEEEEEEEE ><
20:23<Fiddler>hmmm... glx wrote "openttd.cpp:425 can be many things"...
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20:27<Zuu>but only one is correct..
20:28<Fiddler>... and we also need to know what revision to use
20:31<Sacro>Don't suppose anyone here has done any XNA?
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20:36<Zuu>hmm, by the way why use strcpy and not strncpy in openttd.cpp? guess there is a reason that i will find out if I look around a bit.. :)
20:36<+glx>where?
20:37<Zuu>r10000, line 429
20:38<+glx>sometimes we use strcpy, sometimes strncpy
20:38<Zuu>Where the argument of -g is copied to _file_to_saveload.name
20:39<Zuu>have not looked yet, could be that the cli arguments are clamped to a certain length before strcpy.
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20:41<+glx>I won't bet on that
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22:27<Nite>Hi!
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22:59<DaleStan>peter1138: How does one tell when the list in prop 11 is finished?
22:59<DaleStan>*feature 08 prop 11
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 29 00:00:32 2008