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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-04-29

---Logopened Tue Apr 29 00:00:32 2008
00:15-!-Osai^zZz`off is now known as Osai
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01:49<@peter1138>DaleStan: hmm, described wrong... it's one entry per 'id'
02:06-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
02:11<ln>what's wrong with austrians?
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02:15<Roest>morning
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02:24<Zahl>openttd support in xfire? nice one :-D
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02:28<mynetdude>Zahl yeah :)
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03:02-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
03:02<Roest>$%§/&§
03:04<Alberth>I see
03:04-!-mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: my Mac is sleeping...]
03:05<Roest>that's exactly what i mean
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03:12<Roest>lol nice post
03:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12917 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: standardise variable names called with FOR_ALL_ENGINEIDS_OF_TYPE
03:12<Roest>"I do have a couple of game related issues that I think are bugs in trunk (checking those details now). "
03:12<Alberth>yeh, unfortunately, he is not telling what the bugs are
03:13<Roest>coming from someone who couldn't even get buildottd to run
03:13<Alberth>maybe they have to do with the win9x build that is not done any more as i understand
03:14<Alberth>we watch and learn :)
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03:24<Roest>I would report this on flyspray but I don't have a login...
03:24<Roest>:)
03:25<yorick>report what?
03:26<Roest>omg now he found me too
03:26<Roest>yorick: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=37370
03:27<Roest>but i can confirm this bug, just tried it
03:27<yorick>@commit 12914
03:27<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by peter1138 :: r12914 trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp (2008-04-28 11:15:13 UTC)
03:27<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Fix: Game crash when a spectator/server tried to show an engine with no owner when a NewGRF requested a specific variable.
03:28<yorick>hmm...another autoptr problem?
03:30<yorick>it is available, but I can't build it
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03:37<yorick>@calc 19-11
03:37<@DorpsGek>yorick: 8
03:38<Roest>that's surely an equation you need a computer for
03:38<yorick>it seemed that openttd calculated it wrongly, so just a double-check
03:40<yorick>heh, it's a oneliner
03:40<yorick>"<" --> "<="
03:42<yorick>introduced in r12769
03:43<yorick>12679*
03:46<ln>Roest: is that an equation?
03:46<Roest>go away
03:50<Zuu>!logs
03:50<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
03:50<yorick>morning Zuu
03:53<Zuu>yorick: good morning
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04:17<Roest>argh
04:18<yorick>what?
04:18<Roest>it's not doing what i want it to do
04:18<yorick>what's not?
04:18<Roest>doing your request on the newgrf window
04:19<yorick>:)
04:20<yorick>should make a button: "show all newgrfs" / "show only addable grfs"
04:21<Roest>actually i see no reason to show all grfs
04:21<yorick>imagine a multiplayer server
04:21<yorick>and you want to list your grfs to see what aren't compatible
04:22<yorick>and btw, should use another string for >> and << buttons, because this one is also used for add and remove in other languages
04:22<yorick>so it isn't language-compatible
04:22<Roest>meh i hate you and your totally reasonable requests
04:23<Roest>i know
04:23<yorick>=)
04:23<Roest>but then it's original nycom design, but he seems to have abandoned it
04:24<yorick>he did before ;)
04:24<yorick>his first patch was somewhere around 2007
04:24<yorick>he didn't update it until 2008, methinks
04:26<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/webcam.html :o
04:27<yorick>does it refresh every minute?
04:27<@peter1138>nope
04:27<yorick>the picture, that is, not the page
04:28<@peter1138>ok, now it does
04:29*yorick got a picture of the transport tycoon cd
04:29<yorick>better :)
04:29<Roest>could please smile intot he camera?
04:29<Roest>could you*
04:30<@peter1138>god my arm looks strange :o
04:30<yorick>!peter1138: dosmile camera
04:32-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DB24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:33*yorick pats peter1138
04:34<yorick>"the dark side of peter1138!"
04:34<@peter1138>heh, two clocks
04:36<yorick>are you gonna keep that webcam?
04:37*yorick sees him thinking
04:37<@peter1138>wellllll
04:42<blindcoder>hey all. I've asked a few days ago about updating from electric to monorail trains without rebuilding all trains and routes. I now just patched my source tree to allow converting railways even if trains are on it and autoreplacing electric to monorail trains.
04:43<yorick>oh, another one
04:43<yorick>for normal -> electric: send trains into depot, drag convert tool over it, and use autoreplace to convert trains if you like
04:44<yorick>for electric -> monorail: what about newgrfs?
04:44<blindcoder>yeah, normal -> electric woorked fine, of course
04:45<Alberth>newgrfs do updating too?
04:45<blindcoder>what do you mean "what about newgrfs"?
04:47<@peter1138>for electric to monorail... do it manually
04:47<Alberth>blindcoder: Why do you allow converting tracks when a train is on it? with 'normal' to 'electric' I can imagine, since 'normal' trains also run on electric, but non-monorail doesn't run on monorail afaik
04:47-!-Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-17-149.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
04:48<yorick>newgrfs may completely disable monorail
04:48<yorick>or remove certain vehicles?
04:48<blindcoder>Alberth: yes, but I want to upgrade my existing electric network to monorail
04:48<blindcoder>Alberth: so I send all my trains into depots now
04:48<blindcoder>Alberth: update my whole network to monorail
04:48<Alberth>yorick: just the engines is enough :)
04:48<blindcoder>Alberth: autoreplace all my trains to monorail
04:48<blindcoder>Alberth: and send them back on the track
04:48<yorick>yes, what if newgrfs remove engines?
04:49<Alberth>yorick: enough to disable monorail
04:49<blindcoder>doesn''t really matter, does it? I basically just removed the check if the trains can run on the tracks
04:49<Alberth>blindcoder: what's wrong with this approach?
04:49<yorick>what if they only remove some?
04:49<blindcoder>Alberth: it doesn't work with 0.6.0 without changing the source code :)
04:50<@peter1138>Alberth: wagons are rail type specific too ;)
04:51<blindcoder>Alberth: with 0.6.0 if I have trains in the depot, i can't update the depot from electric to monorail
04:51<blindcoder>Alberth: and I can't update electric trains to monorail trains
04:51<@peter1138>hmm, so if you figured out a way around it, what's the problem?
04:51<yorick>except you shouldn't expect for the devs to include your patch
04:51<blindcoder>Alberth: BUT I don't want to recreate all trains and manually program the routes againnnn
04:51<blindcoder>yorick: I don't, really.
04:51<Alberth>blindcoder: I like my trains to be type-specific
04:52<yorick>you don't have to, if you remove a train, replace the depot, make a train, it recieves the same orders
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04:52<blindcoder>yorick: it does?
04:52<yorick>yes
04:52<yorick>since a few revs, maybe even the economical data
04:52<yorick>but I'm not entirely sure on that one
04:52<blindcoder>yorick: so basically, move train to depot, sell train, demolish depot, build new depot, build new train?
04:53<Alberth>does that also work when removing multiple trains?
04:53<@peter1138>no, one at a time
04:54<Alberth>peter1138: ah, I never get that far in the game
04:54<Alberth>so build one depot for each train then ;)
04:54<yorick>no, you have to upgrade the depot
04:54<yorick>not remove ;)
04:55<yorick>just use the convert track tool on it after removing the train
04:55<@peter1138>have two depots
04:55<@peter1138>the old one and a new one
04:55<@peter1138>delete a vehicle, build a vehicle
04:55<@peter1138>etc etc
04:55<@peter1138>(not fun, of course)
04:55<@peter1138>personally i just upgrade bits of the network in stages
04:55<@peter1138>or just run a separate network
04:56<Alberth>mono is so much faster, you'd waste resources by simply copying the old situation imho
04:56<yorick>personally I just skip monorail
04:56<yorick>and go for maglev
04:57<@peter1138>that too :)
04:58<@peter1138>Alberth: faster depends on what newgrfs you have in use...
04:58<Alberth>none, usually :)
05:00<blindcoder>I'm also playing without newgrfs here on my older game. my newer game has enhanced construction vectors in it, but no vehicle newgrfs
05:03<@peter1138>i wonder if just setting the rail type compatibility flags has the appropriate effect
05:06<yorick>docs.openttd.org has a small bug
05:07<blindcoder>peter1138: not exactly, because that would enable electric rails to run on monorail tracks, wouldn't it?
05:12<@peter1138>which is what you want
05:12<@peter1138>to let you upgrade them
05:12<@peter1138>ok... she said "fuck. i want one." ... what was i supposed to reply with...
05:13<yorick>:D
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05:14<@peter1138>well she certainly blushed a lot...
05:14<blindcoder>hmm, yeah, would have been easier than to remove to compatibility checks from the upgrade and autoreplace mechanism :)
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05:17<yorick>you can close FS$1964; duplicate of 1963
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05:20<Roest>ok yorick, do you really want such a button :/
05:20<yorick>yes
05:20<yorick>how else can I check some checksums with other grfs loaded
05:20<yorick>?
05:20<Roest>i knew you'd say that
05:21<yorick>then why do you ask?
05:21<Roest>false hope
05:21<yorick>:)
05:21<Roest>also i wonder why the window update is so sluggish
05:21<yorick>because its microsoft
05:22<yorick>and its windows
05:22<yorick>and its gdi
05:22<yorick>and its because you havent done InvalidateWindow?
05:22<Roest>no i mean the update of that grf window
05:22<yorick>yes, what update is so sluggish?
05:23<yorick>redrawing of the window only happens when you click it, you mean
05:23<yorick>only partially?
05:23<Roest>yes
05:23<yorick>you'll have to mark it dirty ;)
05:23<Roest>i know, it's there
05:24<yorick>let me see?
05:24<Roest>or wait, maybe he forgot it somewhere
05:25<Roest>haha gotcha sucker
05:25<yorick>where?
05:25<shodan>cool
05:25*Alberth Roest goes in for the kill
05:25<shodan>XFire now tracks openttd
05:26-!-User [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
05:26<yorick>true
05:26<yorick>a few weeks ago
05:26<shodan>I'd sent an email in the past requesting it
05:26<shodan>but like, many months ago
05:26-!-User is now known as Guest2225
05:26<shodan>i guess a few other people did too
05:28<Roest>http://stinfwww.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~mai03gex/Bildschirmphoto1.png
05:29<Roest>still needs some work, but it's getting there
05:29<Alberth>wow, looking good!
05:30<yorick>:)
05:30<yorick>should truncate
05:30<Alberth>shouldn't the right side have a 'installed NewGRFs' title?
05:31<Roest>yea it actually uses DoDrawStringTruncated but i guess the formula is wrong
05:33<Roest>hrmpf alberth :P
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05:33<@peter1138>often those things are set to use the window width
05:34<@peter1138>instead of the widget width
05:34-!-Osai`off is now known as Osai
05:35*yorick has fixed 3 bugs the last 7 days, and only one made it into trunk :(
05:36<@peter1138>hmm?
05:37<yorick>fs#1890, fs#1963
05:42<Alberth>6 desktops and still not enough space...
05:52-!-Leviath [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
05:52<@peter1138>and the third one? heh
05:53*Hendikins hrms, and wishes a decent version for Windows Mobile existed.
05:53<Hendikins>I could kill many hours playing it on my Palm Treo if it actually worked properly.
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06:11<yorick>Roest, how is progress going?
06:13<Roest>added the button, have to do the logic behind now, the truncate gives me trouble, no matter what i put there for the right border it doesnt truncate
06:13<Roest>DoDrawStringTruncated(text, w->widget[NLW_WIDGET_FILE_LIST].left + txtoffset, y + 2, WP(w, newgrf_d).sel_r == c ? TC_WHITE : TC_BLACK, w->widget[NLW_WIDGET_FILE_LIST].right);
06:13<yorick>maybe you should get the width?
06:14<@peter1138>yes
06:14<@peter1138>you need right - left
06:14<yorick>nt DoDrawStringTruncated(const char *str, int x, int y, uint16 color, uint maxw)
06:15<yorick>DoDrawStringTruncated(text, w->widget[NLW_WIDGET_FILE_LIST].left + txtoffset, y + 2, WP(w, newgrf_d).sel_r == c ? TC_WHITE : TC_BLACK, w->widget[NLW_WIDGET_FILE_LIST].right - w->widget[NLW_WIDGET_FILE_LIST].left);
06:18<yorick>can't you better do Widget *w = w->widget[NLW_WIDGET_FILE_LIST]?
06:18<yorick>hmm
06:19<yorick>wrong name :p
06:21<Rubidium>yorick: your fix for FS#1963 is wrong (even though it works)
06:21<yorick>what's wrong?
06:21<Rubidium>the value of BAW_COUNT
06:22<Rubidium>*if* there would only be one airport, the count would be 0
06:22<Rubidium>if there would be 2 airports, the count would be 1
06:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12918 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1963] (r12679): last airport would always be shown as buildable even when it was not.
06:30<yorick>adn FS#1890? any comments on that one?
06:33<Roest>ok updated the screenshot http://stinfwww.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~mai03gex/Bildschirmphoto1.png
06:34<yorick>:)
06:34<yorick>now the drag-drop as with orders :p
06:34<Roest>:P
06:35<@peter1138>heh
06:36<@peter1138>you've cropped too much now ;)
06:38<Roest>yea had an additional -10, thats gone now
06:43<yorick>peter1138 should stop breaking his own patches with trunk changes
06:48<ln>what the hell is wrong with austrians?
06:48<yorick>dunno?
06:48-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1D583.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:48<yorick>http://fuzzle.org/webcam.jpg <-- you mean this one?
06:49<ln>err, no
06:50*peter1138 hides yorick in a cellar
06:51*yorick gets 7 children from peter1138
06:55-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
06:56*yorick sees one of the children dieing and 3 being taken away
06:57*Roest eats yoricks children
06:58<ln>yorick: english only.
06:58<ln>Roest: english only.
06:59<yorick>ln: AND NO LNs!!!
06:59<Roest>i guess i have to find the ignore option in this irc thing here
07:00<yorick>just do /ignore +ln
07:00<yorick>the only thing he says is english only.
07:00<ln>Roest: English only is ordered in the topic, not by me.
07:00<yorick>and whats not english about this?
07:00<yorick>and what says that you should be cop?
07:01<ln>the topic does not (currently) say "should not be enforced by ln".
07:01<yorick>it doesn't say the opposite, does it?
07:02<yorick>peter1138, feel free to add that one
07:02<Roest>well since english isn't my native language and i was under the impression i used it, please show where i did not
07:02<yorick>he hates apostrophes that are missing ;)
07:02<yorick>yorick's*
07:02<Roest>lawl
07:03<Roest>apparantly he is a bigger idiot than i thought then
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07:08<yorick>I'm spotting another one on the fuzzlecam
07:08<yorick>pointing at the screen
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07:16<Roest>hi frosti
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07:43<ln>Roest: who are you to call other people idiots?
07:46<Roest>i'm just me, but i think a person who screams "english only" everytime someone makes a typo or a grammar mistake fits the description pretty well
07:48<ln>i've never said that about typos.
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08:06<yorick>' is a typo
08:07<ln>it isn't.
08:07<ln>if it isn't there, one didn't even try to press it.
08:08<yorick>any dev that'd like to add "should not be enforced by ln"?
08:09<Roest>yorick did you try the patch? btw there wont be drag & drop
08:09<yorick>I'm compiling it
08:10<yorick>why not :(?
08:10<Roest>because double click already works and is faster
08:11<Rubidium>not for moving individual items in the 'chosen' newgrf list
08:11<Roest>oh
08:11<Rubidium>oh noes... just made two typos!
08:11<Roest>that
08:12<yorick>yes, that
08:12<teeg>I wonder what'd happen if we all decided to write SMSish
08:12<teeg>ln'd probably have a heart attack
08:13<Sacro>i tnk ud b rite
08:13<teeg>come to think of it, I think I'll have a heart attack as well
08:15<yorick>Roest, the scrollbar doesn't change size
08:15<Roest>i know
08:16<Roest>thing is i don't keep the number of items shown, so it shows the scrollbar according to total # of grfs
08:16<Roest>but that's fixable
08:18<Roest>guess i have a look at order window how dnd is done, greedy bastard
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08:55<Roest>hmm do i have to allow dragndrop with some flag or is it superceded by the click event?
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09:13*Roest needs a clue
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09:15<Roest>peter1138: i see you on the fuzzlecam, gimme a clue plz
09:16<Gekz>noclue4u
09:17<Roest>:(
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09:19<Chicago_Rail_Authority>fuzzlecam?
09:19-!-mikl_ [~mikl@adsl.peytz.dk] has quit [Quit: my Mac is sleeping...]
09:19<Roest>http://fuzzle.org/webcam.jpg
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09:29<Gekz>AH
09:29<Gekz>ITS HOMOEROTICA
09:29<Gekz>DONT LOOK
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09:35*Roest blergs
09:36*Gekz flargs
09:36<Gekz>I have a girlfriend that is a foot and bit shorter than me
09:36<Gekz>lolo
09:36<yorick>I can smell him through the screen :o
09:37<Gekz>...
09:37<Gekz>I will kill you
09:37<Gekz>I swear to god yorick
09:37<Roest>:)
09:37<Gekz>I will stick you with a knife
09:37<Gekz>and twist it
09:37<yorick>over the internet?
09:37<Gekz>and then turn it a bit
09:37<yorick>nice!
09:37<Gekz>then pull it out
09:37<Gekz>stand back a bit
09:37<Gekz>and throw it at your head
09:37<Gekz>and if I miss
09:37<Gekz>I'll go again
09:37<Gekz>until I succeed
09:37<Gekz>and then I'll eat your big toe!
09:37<Gekz>and your tongue
09:38<Gekz>and I'll sell your kidneys on the black market
09:38<Gekz>and I'll eat your liver.
09:39<Roest>just curious, you eat it raw or cooked?
09:40<Roest>anyway, why doesn't case WE_DRAGDROP: ShowErrorMessage(INVALID_STRING_ID, STR_NEWGRF_DUPLICATE_GRFID, 0, 0); show that damn thing
09:40-!-nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:41<Gekz>Roest: cooked in his entrails
09:41<Roest>nice
09:41<yorick>anyone wants to participate in the current #openttdcoop.dev game?
09:41<yorick>it has tracksharing :)
09:41<Gekz>:O
09:41<yorick>it has YAPP
09:41<Roest>those coop guys are too leet for me
09:41<Gekz>can I be on your side?
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09:41<yorick>it has flavourz
09:41<Gekz>and touch you
09:41<Gekz>crash your trains
09:42<Roest>and why would you need tracksharing in a coop game anyway
09:42<yorick>ok
09:42<yorick>because everyone can have different companies
09:42<yorick>Gekz: http://rapidshare.de/files/39263795/openttdcoopdev.zip.html
09:42<Gekz>I was kidding
09:42<yorick>in case you're a windows user
09:43<Gekz>its nearly midnight and I have school
09:43<Gekz>oh, and a life
09:43<yorick>no its not
09:43<Gekz>I use debian
09:43<yorick>anone else?
09:43<Roest>you scare me
09:43<yorick>"life"
09:43*yorick ducks
09:44*Gekz brutally murders ducks
09:44<Gekz>\_x<
09:44<@Belugas>hey! don't!!! For once, it was usefull!!
09:45*yorick protects the ducks
09:45<Gekz>what was
09:45*teeg looks up "life" in a dictionary
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09:51<@Belugas>the duck was helpfull, since "[09:42] * yorick ducks"
09:51<@Belugas>usefull, even...
09:51<@Belugas>-l
09:51<@Belugas>ho.,,,,shoo
09:53-!-pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
09:53<pavel1269>hi
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10:04<ooo4tom>afternoon all
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10:12<Ammler>has someone tried cond orders yet?
10:12-!-xkrchnav [~xkrchnav@ro-chr.netdatacomm.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:12<Ammler>how do I have to make orders to skip a station if 100% loaded
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10:13*Roest is clueless
10:15<Gekz>whats new
10:16<yorick>if load percentage equals 100
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10:30<Roest>my productivity today equals zero
10:30<yorick>what's the problem?
10:30<teeg>Roest: Swap tasks? I've got some old VB code which apparently doesn't want to run in vs2008, which makes things a bit difficult to debug
10:31<Roest>uh VB
10:31<teeg>and I can't for the life of me find the enthusiasm to try to fix the damned thing. :P
10:33<Roest>how good is your opengl :)
10:33<teeg>I wish I could say "about as good as my VB", but sadly it's non-existent
10:33<teeg>(not that I'm a VB guru either, but at least VB isn't exactly the most difficult language ever to understand...)
10:34<Roest>i can say i never wrote a single line VB in my life
10:35<teeg>sadly, I cannot. but I can at least say I never enjoyed any of them, and if I don't have to write another line in my life, that'll be just dandy
10:35<Roest>but then i wrote enough PHP which is probably as bad if not worse
10:36<teeg>better syntax, but not really a step up, no
10:39<@peter1138>VB or VB.NET?
10:39<teeg>hm. I think it's vb.net
10:39*blathijs did some very nice programming in VB5 :-D
10:39<@peter1138>ah... syntax on that is already
10:39<@peter1138>err
10:39<@peter1138>alright
10:39<@peter1138>it's just like C# but without the ;s ;)
10:40<blathijs>Actually, that's where a lot of my programming experience comes from :-)
10:40<teeg>I'm addicted to the ;s
10:40<teeg>which is why I'm a Perl guy and not a python guy :P
10:40<teeg>I constantly have to fix at least 5 ;'s which sneak into any VB code I write, because it's automatic
10:41<@peter1138>:)
10:42<teeg>oh great. a meeting.<fake enthusiasm>
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11:15<SmatZ>hello
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11:22<yorick>@seen dih
11:22<@DorpsGek>yorick: dih was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 21 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <dih> sup ladies?
11:36<nicfer>hmmm what about replacing the propietary openttd's chat with a standardized one?
11:36-!-Volley [~worf@84.119.65.133] has joined #openttd
11:36<@Belugas>why?
11:36-!-dR3x4cK2313 [~Miranda@p5499CC15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:37<nicfer>I mean, if each game has it's own chat engine, it would be too complicated for devs to start from scratch every engine
11:37<nicfer>why not make a standard lib for it?
11:38<@Belugas>because we're not starting from scratch. it's already there
11:38<@Belugas>why changing something just for changing?
11:39<nicfer>linux is good because it's libs are organizated
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11:39<@Belugas>why changing something just for changing?
11:39<SmatZ>nicfer: you can chat at IRC while playing if you want
11:39<@Belugas>why changing something just for changing?
11:39<SmatZ>and OTTD doesn't run only on Linux
11:41<nicfer>because if I want to start a game and I want to do a chat, it's simpler to pick up openttd's one and implement it on my game rather than writing one from the scratch
11:41<+glx>and chat is part of ottd networkig protocol
11:42<nicfer>that is the principle of sdl
11:42<@peter1138>...
11:42<@Belugas>so basically, you are a bit of a lazy guy who would like to reuse our stuff for your own purpose
11:42<@Belugas>sort of
11:42<@Belugas>nice
11:43<@peter1138>no problem... have fun with the string system... and the graphics system... and the network system... :)
11:43<@Belugas>or, make it so that you can re-use without much effort our stufff
11:43<@Belugas>indeed :)
11:43<nicfer>and why to use an own networking protocol when you can use sdl_net's one?
11:44<+glx>because sdl is not needed on windows, nor on osx
11:44<@Belugas>:)
11:44<+glx>and dedicated servers don't use sdl either
11:45<SmatZ>and because current code works
11:45<SmatZ>and do not have too much overhead
11:45<SmatZ>*does
11:45<SmatZ>not
11:47<nicfer>sdl_net doesn't use graphical functions
11:48<Zuu>nicfer: sdl_net is just the lower layers ottd still have to implement the higher layers etc.
11:49<Zuu>Even if you would have a ssh connection or whatever to build on you still have to design and implement the application layer.
11:49<SmatZ>nicfer: mixing two network protocols would make the code more complex, and current network protocol is suited for OTTD ; you can't know how would any other higher level protocol work
11:49<SmatZ>UDP / TCP is on adequate level to work with
11:50<SmatZ>furthermore, with sockets...
11:50<@Belugas>12 minutes before lunch time. might not wait until then
11:50<nicfer>you don't understand the concept of libraries just
11:50<nicfer>it would be useful in other games
11:50<@Belugas>no kidding...
11:51<@Belugas>nicfer, you do not understand our needs either
11:51<@Belugas>nor the decisions that have been taken
11:51<SmatZ>Belugas said it exactly
11:52<Zuu>Having the implementation "in house" have it's benefits too.
11:52<@Belugas>but hey... don't listen to me, after all, i'm sarcastic, condescendant and cynical...
11:52<SmatZ>:-)
11:53<SmatZ>Belugas: sometimes it is good to be sarcastic and cynical :)
11:53<@peter1138>:D
11:53<Albert1>nicfer: could you plz explain? you want us to use sdl_net's so you can use it? why not use sdl_net directly?
11:56<@Belugas>'cause it's haaaaaard
11:56<nicfer>microsoft is doing the same thing, propietary protocols closed to their own products
11:56<teeg>nicfer: then make a chat lib and release it as open source, maybe we'll use it then.
11:57<@peter1138>to fit into out network system? hehe
11:57<teeg>peter1138: mother of all shoehorns? :P no, I'm just putting the shoe on the other foot.
12:03<@Belugas>LUNCH TIME!!
12:04<@peter1138>hay
12:05<Onack>im started to get annoyed by 0.6.1 RC1
12:05<Onack>now i get desync by removing roads :S
12:05<Onack>a citys roads
12:06<+glx>sounds bad :/
12:06<SmatZ>Onack: do you use the CIV1 version?
12:06<Onack>CIV1?
12:06<@Belugas>guess not :)
12:06<+glx>SmatZ: he said 0.6.1RC1
12:06<SmatZ>ah, ok :)
12:07<Onack>using a 64bit compiled 0.6.1 RC1
12:07-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
12:07<Onack>on Windows Vista
12:07<SmatZ>glx: it is better to ask...
12:07<SmatZ>I know I had this problem in a game with CIV1 patch
12:07<+glx>is it easy to reproduce?
12:07<Onack>always :P
12:07<SmatZ>but maybe it was caused by OTTD + some grf set
12:07<SmatZ>Onack: what GRFs do you use?
12:08<Onack>quite a few grfs
12:08<Onack>im White_Tiger in the flyspry
12:08<Onack>*spray
12:08<Onack>listed grfs there
12:08<Onack>on the desync on electric trains
12:09<Albert1>nicfer: if you want a chat protocol, get one from jabber. it is open, and used by Google
12:09<nicfer>is possible to use it inside a game?
12:09<Onack>i dont have the patch with easier removing city roads on, but it seems like the client dont see it
12:10<Onack>cause when i connect back to the server the road is back again
12:10<Zuu>Onack: When you say don't have the patch, you mean that you've disabled that option in the patch dialog on the server?
12:11<Onack>no my server but he said so
12:11<Onack>a buddy of mine running the server
12:12<Onack>hm, my client says its on
12:12<Onack>that might be the problem
12:13-!-Albert1 [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
12:13<Zuu>Sounds a bit like an assert that only affects some builds. I found one a year ago (or was it two?) which was when you had station spread < airport size and built a station an assert was triggered. Some builds stoped because of the assertion (my client) but the windows-server did not stop because of which flags it was built with.
12:13<Zuu>On what operating systems and how are the clients/server built?
12:14<Onack>server is running on FreeBSD
12:14<Onack>my buddy compiled them so i need to ask him then
12:14<@peter1138>yes, i have desyncs removing roads too
12:14-!-thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B789B0.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
12:15<Onack>good to hear im not the only one
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12:15<+glx>nice when the client removes road they disappear on server, the opposite is wrong
12:16<Onack>when i reconnect(cause of desync) the road is back
12:16<Onack>takes ~20 seconds after i remove the road before the desync happens
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12:17<@peter1138>that's the one
12:19<yorick>huh, oh, Bjarni!
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12:24<Zuu>I've calculated it to 111 clients on the server list on openttd.org :)
12:24<@Bjarni>give or take 100, right?
12:25<Zuu>give or take 1-10 maybe, but I think I got it quite correct. But the list is not static so noone can say I calculated it wrong :)
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12:36<@Bjarni>you could script counting the total amount of clients
12:37<@Bjarni>then you will get them fast enough to be somewhat sure
12:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12919 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1965]: flood road tiles even when there are road works in progress
12:42-!-mode/#openttd [-b Karen*!*@*] by ChanServ
12:42-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*riddle@*.lylix.net] by ChanServ
12:42-!-mode/#openttd [-b questionmark!*@*] by ChanServ
12:43<Onack>Zuu: got word from my buddy, the server was buildt with normal FreeBSD compile, clients are from openttd
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12:57<hylje>i built a 2-wagon multiple unit out of lego
12:57<hylje>just the base tho
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13:06<@Bjarni>do you have a pic?
13:06<dih>nope
13:06<hylje>nope
13:06<@Bjarni>I once built a 3 unit articulated unit out of lego
13:06<@Bjarni>the middle unit shared a bogie with each of the ends
13:06-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host193-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:06<hylje>how did you do articulation
13:07<Wolf01>hello
13:07<@Bjarni>it did surprisingly well when turning
13:07<+glx>like a TGV?
13:07<hylje>jacob's bogie
13:07<@Bjarni>yes
13:07<yorick>huh? who removed the bans?
13:07<@Bjarni>ChanServ
13:07<yorick>who instructed chanserv to remove the bans?
13:07<+glx>itself
13:07<@Bjarni><glx> like a TGV? <-- yeah something like that (even though I wasn't thinking about TGV at the time)
13:07<yorick>why?
13:08<hylje>because it can
13:08<@Belugas>does it matter?
13:08*Wolf01 reads: "<yorick> huh? who removed the bananas?" WTF!!!
13:09<@Bjarni>it matters to Karen
13:09<yorick>2 of the bans were made 2 days ago?
13:09<@Bjarni>maybe she will bring more cake
13:09<@Belugas>does it matter?
13:10<yorick>its nice to see "our clues are perfect" to be jammed a bit
13:10<@Belugas>does it matter?
13:11<dih>you are repeating yourself
13:11-!-jp [~Miranda@dslb-088-066-043-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jp]
13:11*yorick unstucks Belugas
13:11<yorick>dih, we're running patched on #openttdcoop.dev
13:11<dih>you annoying little kid :D
13:11<yorick>TS+YAPP
13:12<dih>nice
13:12<dih>enjoy :-)
13:12<yorick>you know what I mean
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13:12<dih>snow in temperate + yet another pbs patch
13:12<dih>yes
13:12<@Belugas>no, at all!!
13:12<yorick>no, TrackSharing
13:12<dih>oh
13:13<dih>nice
13:13<@Belugas>no, at all!!
13:13<dih>not at all?
13:13<yorick>you know what I mean by saying that
13:13<hylje>yes, at nothing!!
13:13*yorick tries to unstuck belugas again
13:13<@Belugas>not at all!!
13:13<yorick>?
13:13*dih slaps Belugas
13:13<dih>get a grip
13:13*dih smiles
13:13<@Belugas>muwhahaha!!!
13:14<dih>^^
13:14<yorick>look what you did
13:14<dih>i helped him
13:14-!-dih was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [Got a firm grip on my kick!]
13:14-!-dih [~dih@members.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
13:14<dih>thanks
13:14<dih>what a wonderful gesture
13:14<dih>a devine size 9 boot up the rear
13:15<dih>size 9 - you get that Belugas? size 9!
13:15<@Belugas>?
13:15<@Belugas>only 9 that i knwo is
13:15<@Belugas>Nine Inch Nail!
13:15<hylje>yay
13:16<SmatZ>:-)
13:16<dih>ask your wife what size shoes she wears
13:16<hylje>of note, my precious multiple unit is low-floored between the bogies
13:16<@Belugas># I want to f... you like an animal
13:17<@Belugas># I want to feel you from the inside
13:17<dih>you think that ---- is a perfect druc
13:17<dih>*drug
13:17<Rubidium>nicfer: too bad I can't install libsdl-net without installing libsdl which needs X, which I don't want on my dedicated server
13:18<yorick>you don't need sdl for dedicated servers, do you?
13:18<Rubidium>yorick: exactly
13:18-!-Karen_ [~riddle@vps-216-75-24-180.lylix.net] has joined #openttd
13:18<yorick>hmm...karen has chanserv access!
13:18<Rubidium>Karen_: 24 hours aren't up yet
13:19<yorick>!peter1138: doban Karen_!
13:19-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by Bjarni
13:19<+glx>lol
13:19<@Bjarni>you don't have anything to say
13:19<Prof_Frink>yorick: You're doing it wrong
13:19-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by Bjarni
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13:19<Prof_Frink>peter1138! Newbanana!
13:19<Tefad>i'm confused
13:20<Tefad>what's with all the irc modes lately
13:20<Prof_Frink>Bananas.
13:20<Tefad>this channel is usualy quiet in those regards
13:21<Karen_>1 yes/no question, now!
13:21<hylje>yes or no?
13:21<Karen_>yes
13:21<yorick>good,hylje
13:22<yorick>you used our only question
13:22<Onack>is there any to force removal of own created industries?
13:22<Wolf01>yes, magic bulldozer
13:22<Karen_>thank you for the question - see you later on this evening!
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13:22<Onack>*waves the wand*
13:24<Onack>seriously, where?
13:24<Onack>:P
13:24<@Belugas>called magic bulldozer
13:24<@Belugas>watch out
13:24<@Belugas>a cheat
13:24<@Belugas>town can use it too
13:24<@Belugas>boooo
13:24<dih>LOL
13:24<Onack>lol
13:25<yorick>the problem is that towns can also use it, yes
13:25<dih>[19:22] * Belugas is leaving the channel
13:25<dih>[19:22] * Belugas (belugas@openttd.org) has left #openttdcoop
13:25<dih>thanks for the notice ^^
13:25<@peter1138>contaminated :o
13:25-!-waterpie [~waterpie@athedsl-231926.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd
13:25<@Belugas>was a joke, in reaction to x,y, joining the game :)
13:26<waterpie>hi all
13:26<dih>Belugas: nice one :-)
13:26<Onack>well, i guess cheats are not possible in MP even i got server access
13:26<yorick>oh, what's your question?
13:26<@Belugas>but dih, i was expecting you to kick me :)
13:26<waterpie>can someone pls explain to me, why i can't make any profit? i get more profit than expenditure (i think), but i constantly lose money
13:27<dih>why would i kick you Belugas?
13:27<yorick>you have transfer button pressed?
13:27<Tefad>waterpie: check your graphs.
13:27<dih>i have no reason to :-P
13:27<Tefad>er not graphs.. the overview budge screen,.. summary
13:27<Tefad>budget too
13:27<@Belugas>'cause i kicked you in #openttd, and you have no power in here, which is the exact opposite situation there
13:27<Tefad>interest can kick your ass
13:27<waterpie>the graph is a ~straight line below 0
13:28*Tefad shrugs
13:28<waterpie>the finances screen?
13:29<dih>Belugas: i can understand you had a nasty day at work
13:29<Tefad>to be honest? i've not played the game in a couple of months : D
13:29*dih slaps Tefad
13:29<dih>i have not either, but at least i dont admit it
13:29<@Belugas>wrong, dih. i STILL have a bad day
13:30<Tefad>lol
13:30<dih>well - if i then kicked you it would not be helpful
13:30<dih>rather i accept the kick and "turn the other cheek"
13:30<dih>HAHAHA
13:30<yorick>peter is still behind the fuzzlecam!
13:31<SmatZ>what?
13:31<waterpie>can you pls help me? i am totally lost
13:31<SmatZ>waterpie: do you use transfer orders?
13:32<SmatZ>savegame would help
13:32<waterpie>yes (transfer, full load)
13:32-!-henkie [not@tdlnx.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd
13:32<Tefad>waterpie: pics or it didn't happen.
13:32<Rubidium>waterpie: transfer does not cause real payments
13:32<henkie>my multiplayer game seems to desync sometimes :(
13:32<SmatZ>waterpie: do you know how transfer works? if you don't, don't use them
13:32-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference]
13:33<waterpie>then how do i tell the vehicles where to go?
13:34<SmatZ>waterpie: you just load/unload, no transfer
13:34<SmatZ>*use just
13:34<SmatZ>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Transfer_order,_setting_up_feeder_systems waterpie
13:34<SmatZ>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Feeder_service better
13:34<henkie>is it possible to trace the cause of a desync? (+easy)
13:35<Rubidium>henkie: read the wiki docs about tracing a desync
13:35-!-Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
13:35<+glx>henkie: remove the (+easy) part
13:36<henkie>Rubidium, you got an url? i only see a network protocol description
13:36<henkie>glx, :(
13:36<Rubidium>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Network/Desync_debugging
13:37<henkie>tnx
13:37<Tefad>happy leet-o'clock everyone!
13:38<Rubidium>tss... American :(
13:38<Prof_Frink>Tefad: You're not Dave2.
13:38<Tefad>who's that?
13:38<henkie>damn
13:39<Prof_Frink>Tefad: A ...person... in #lugradio
13:39<henkie>desync happens really random, and can sometimes hours
13:39<Tefad>not on this network
13:40<henkie>all newgrfs have checksums?
13:40<Prof_Frink>Has an unhealthy obsession with all things goaty, and annonces leet o'clock, leeeet o'clock and other variants just about every day.
13:41<SmatZ>henkie: before you start, there is a known desync problem in 0.6.1-RC1 (caused by removing city road or house)
13:41<Tefad>goaty?
13:41<Prof_Frink>Tefad: Goaty.
13:41<Tefad>eleet-o'clock is fun
13:41<henkie>SmatZ, i/we are running 0.6.0
13:42<@peter1138>there's a known desync problem in 0.6.0 too, depending on grfs, heh
13:43<waterpie>ok, thanks. i was just transfering cargo around. ...imo, "transfer" is a bit misleading. maybe "connect" is better (?)
13:45<Rubidium>transfer is perfectly okay
13:45<SmatZ>waterpie: you can use localised version (eg. change laguage to Greek) if you have problems understanding English
13:45-!-wolfy [~Wolfenste@ip52-73-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:46<Rubidium>airlines, busses, ships and trains in real life use the exact same term
13:48<waterpie>(my english is ok, but it is just my imho). ...anyways, thanks
13:49<dih>just my in my humble oppinion?
13:49-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F55AD0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
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13:51<waterpie>dih: =8-)
13:51<waterpie>thanks. bye all
13:51-!-waterpie [~waterpie@athedsl-231926.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:51<@Belugas>Heeeek!!! a punk!!!
13:53-!-wolfy [~Wolfenste@dhcp-077-250-023-072.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:54-!-mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd
13:55<mynetdude|Away>hey all somehow I loaded several newgrfs and some aren't showing, I saved my game went back to the newgrf menu and none were showing even though I had tram and town replacement graphics, is there any way to force the others to load? like train set, etc
13:55<mynetdude|Away>hmm hold on
13:55-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
13:55<mynetdude>ah there
13:56<Rubidium>1) press apply when changing NewGRFs in-game, 2) changing NewGRFs in-game can cause crashes
13:56-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F55AD0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:56<Rubidium>3) changing NewGRFs in-game won't change the newgame settings
13:56<mynetdude>Rubidium yes I know it can cause crashes, I did hit apply
13:56<henkie>bam, crashed again
13:57*mynetdude sighs... I have to start over as usual
13:57<henkie>s/crash/desync/
13:58-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:00<@peter1138>doing what? heh
14:01-!-Roest [~ralph@p54B9D82E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:03-!-Karen_ [~riddle@vps-216-75-24-180.lylix.net] has joined #openttd
14:04<Karen_>to answer Smatz question: yes and no. The text in the image is what is in the file. The answer is not in it.
14:04<SmatZ>Karen_: thanks :)
14:04<yorick>are you going to give us the second clue?
14:04<Karen_>you are most welcome
14:05<Karen_>yorick: having trouble finding the second answer?
14:05<Zuu>I think i might have got half of the secord one, but not enterly. ..
14:06<Zuu>Could be totally wrong too... :)
14:06<Karen_>Zuu: it is not a composed number.
14:07<Zuu>Karen_: Ok, I left that idea.
14:07<Karen_>back to yes/no questions: you get 5 this time round
14:07<mynetdude>ok cool, I got the newgrfs to load... except us town names won't load for some reason, although its there
14:08<Rubidium>can I ask a question? really? can I? really? sure? ;)
14:08<Karen_>no
14:08<yorick>yes, no, yes, no, yes
14:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12920 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12859): town rating was affected even after the test run
14:09<Zuu>Karen_: Is the answer of #2 in r425?
14:09<Karen_>1 down 4 to go
14:10<Karen_>Zuu: no, it is in latest revision, and r425 is not a number
14:10<yorick>Does the account number or the password mean something, except saving my progress, and account number being a random seed
14:10<Zuu>ok, then my theory failed.. :)
14:10-!-Leviath [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:11<yorick>Karen_?
14:11<Karen_>yorick: the account number is solely for that purpose
14:11<SmatZ>hehe openttd.cpp:425 InteractiveRandom(); ... well, if you got the number by this function... :-D
14:12<Karen_>SmatZ: you are cute!
14:12<yorick>have we been given the second clue?
14:12<SmatZ>:-)
14:13<Karen_>3 down 2 to go
14:13<yorick>have we been given the second clue?
14:13<@peter1138>do we care?
14:13<Karen_>no, yes
14:14<yorick>haha, wrong, we don't
14:14<SmatZ>:-)
14:14<Roest>tough crowd
14:14-!-elmex_ [~elmex@e180076075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
14:15<Karen_>keep on tryin! next session later on this evening.
14:15-!-Karen_ [~riddle@vps-216-75-24-180.lylix.net] has left #openttd [www.ottd.info]
14:16<Roest>is anyone even trying?
14:16<yorick>not any more
14:18<yorick>Roest, how is dragdrop going?
14:18<@Belugas>i tried, i gave up
14:18-!-elmex [~elmex@e180064038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:18-!-Karen_ [~riddle@vps-216-75-24-180.lylix.net] has joined #openttd
14:18<Karen_>Roest: according to our stats page ( www.ottd.info/stats.php ): yes
14:18-!-elmex_ is now known as elmex
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14:19<Roest>i gave up earlier, for some reason it doesn't enter the switch case for dragdrop
14:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12921 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: coding style fixes and documentation updates.
14:20<Roest>ohh documentation, me likes
14:20<yorick>Karen_, you're either a known person to us, or reading the logs, or both
14:20-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-14.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
14:20<Roest>it's more like an unknown spy account
14:21*Rubidium wonders how CreateConsole should deliver a number
14:22<Yexo>Rubidium: nice changing of openttd.cpp:425 :P
14:22<Rubidium>she said it was the latest version
14:22<yorick>what changed?
14:23<Yexo><CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12921 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: coding style fixes and documentation updates.
14:23<yorick>oh heh :o
14:23-!-Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai^Kendo`off
14:24<Prof_Frink>Roest: I would hardly class orudge as "unknown"
14:25-!-ooo4tom [~tom@92.2.101.181] has joined #openttd
14:26<SmatZ>it will either change to openttd.cpp:418 , or it is some other revision...
14:26-!-ooo4tom [~tom@92.2.101.181] has left #openttd []
14:26<SmatZ>I think it would be too risky to apply it to trunk of r12345 without being sure it won't change
14:27*SmatZ tests r12345 :)
14:27-!-elmex_ [~elmex@e180068214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
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14:30<@orudge>12345!
14:31<Prof_Frink>That's the combination on my luggage!
14:31-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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14:31-!-elmex_ is now known as elmex
14:32<SmatZ>:)
14:32<SmatZ>:-D
14:33<SmatZ>openttd.cpp:438 is a blank line, now it is really interesting...
14:33*SmatZ permutes the numbers
14:33<@orudge>tis InteractiveRandom
14:33<@orudge>well
14:33<@orudge>tis generation_seed = InteractiveRandom();
14:34<@orudge>generation_seed is set to GENERATE_NEW_SEED, which is -1. If it returns the result of InteractiveRandom, well...
14:34<Prof_Frink>orudge: is or was?
14:34<@orudge>is, as of the latest revision
14:36<SmatZ>orudge: yes, sorry, I had open window of 0.6.0 and 0.6.1-RC1
14:37-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
14:39<SmatZ>well, I tried -1 yesterday several times :)
14:39<SmatZ>even 65535 and so, no success
14:41<@peter1138>god, torcs fucking sucks
14:43-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
14:48-!-Karen_ [~riddle@vps-216-75-24-180.lylix.net] has joined #openttd
14:48<Karen_>blame it on something else
14:52<Karen_>yorick: do you need any further hints?
14:55<yorick>no
14:55<SmatZ>that's bad, I don't even know what should I ask :)
14:56-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: My clues are obvious, my answers faint. Or I don't know]
14:58<Karen_>SmatZ: what may i shed light on for you?
14:58<Prof_Frink>Karen_: Jean is shorter than Brutus but taller than Imhotep. Imhotep is taller than Jean, but shorter than Lord Scotland. Lord Scotland is twice the height of Jean and Brutus combined but only one-tenth of the height of Millsy. Millsy is at a constant height of x -ˆ’ y. If Jean stands exactly one nautical mile away from Lord Scotland, how tall is Imhotep?
14:59<@Belugas>As Tall as His Glory when the Sun hits his Eyes on Eve of First Day of the Year, on the Shores of the Nile
14:59-!-elmex_ [~elmex@e180074145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
14:59<@Belugas>on and on and on
15:00<Karen_>Prof_Frink: that is not a yes/no question.
15:01<Prof_Frink>Fine then.
15:01<Prof_Frink>Eight ladies go to eight shops at eight o'clock in the morning. Each lady wants to buy eight spiders. For each spider, eight spider shoes must also be bought. But they only have eight pounds between them. With each spider costing eight pence and each spider shoe costing an eighth pence each, will the ladies have enough change for the bus ride home? A journey costing eight pence per stop and made up of eight stops.
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15:03<Karen_>you do understand that the answer to that question is a joke on its own, not to be answered with yes or no?
15:03-!-elmex_ is now known as elmex
15:04<dih>aronal
15:05-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
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15:11<Patrick`_>I want bacons
15:11<Roest>yorick dragndrop almost works, but i have no time to finish it now, so tomorrow
15:11-!-stillunk1own [~stillunkn@vpn006063.vpn.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:12<dih>once again Roest: he aint there
15:12<Roest>dammit
15:12-!-divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd
15:12<@orudge>Karen_: What are birds?
15:12-!-Roest [~ralph@p54B9D82E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:12<Karen_>yes
15:12<@orudge>Wrong answer, sorry.
15:13<@orudge>Prof_Frink: What are birds?
15:13-!-Guest2225 [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:13<@Belugas>not dogs
15:13<@Belugas>rigth answer!
15:13<Prof_Frink>orudge: We just don't know.
15:13<dih>you aint Prof_Frink!
15:13<@orudge>Prof_Frink knows of what I speak.
15:13<Prof_Frink>orudge: What is water?
15:14-!-bob27 [4b214c3a@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
15:14-!-weirdy [~weirdy@78-105-166-85.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:14<weirdy>holy shiz
15:15<weirdy>is there a Karen_ here?
15:15<Karen_>yes
15:15<SmatZ>:-D
15:16<weirdy>are you the owner of ottd.info?
15:16<Karen_>yes
15:16<Prof_Frink>no, DNS ADMIN is.
15:16<weirdy>whats the answer to the second one/
15:17<weirdy>?
15:17<Karen_>only yes/no questions please
15:17<SmatZ>hehe
15:17<weirdy>is it about ottd.ccp?
15:17<@Belugas>lol
15:17<Prof_Frink>Karen_: Is the answer to this question "no"?
15:17<@Belugas>good luck finding it!
15:18<SmatZ>Mr. Paradox Frink
15:18<Karen_>Belugas: that sounds like you are getting somewhere with the 2nd riddle?
15:18<weirdy>>_>
15:18<Karen_>weirdy: no (what is ottd.ccp?)
15:18<weirdy>:/
15:18<Prof_Frink>openttd.cccp!
15:19<Prof_Frink>In soviet russia, game plays you!
15:19<weirdy>has the second riddle got anything to do with code?
15:19<SmatZ>teh bukkit misses you!
15:19<@Belugas>no Karen_, i was replying to weirdy and his ottd.cpp
15:19<hylje>in soviet russia the game loses you
15:19<SmatZ>:)
15:19<Prof_Frink>Karen_: Will you get bored of us asking silly questions and bugger off?
15:20<Karen_>blame it on something else
15:20<weirdy>has the second riddle got anything to do with code Karen_?
15:20<Karen_>Prof_Frink: no
15:20<Karen_>weirdy: yes
15:21-!-sickie88 [~sickie@BSN-210-251-71.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #openttd
15:21<Prof_Frink>Karen_: Do you have teh upload codez?
15:21<SmatZ>with yes/no questions, we could get the right answer after ~13 questions (using binary interval halving)
15:22<SmatZ>23
15:22<weirdy>whats the highest number you can count to using your fingers?
15:22-!-dR3x4cK2313 [~Miranda@p5499CC15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK2313]
15:23<Karen_>Prof_Frink: to the nuclear satellites? yes
15:23<Prof_Frink>HAHA
15:23-!-dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable147.26-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
15:23<dragonhorseboy>hey
15:23<dragonhorseboy>any of you in here also on the !!expert zone!! server?
15:23*weirdy gives up and just glares at Karen_
15:23<Prof_Frink>It's not the answer, but try `head -n 438 openttd.cpp | wc -w`
15:23<Karen_>weirdy: 1023, but not a yes/no question
15:24<weirdy>fsking riddles...
15:24<Karen_>and weirdy: stop staring at my chest! it is not polite...
15:24-!-weirdy [~weirdy@78-105-166-85.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [Nice... chest... i guess]
15:24-!-Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-237-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
15:24<SmatZ>:-)
15:25<dragonhorseboy>hehe
15:25<dragonhorseboy>so noone here on the server then?
15:26<SmatZ>seems so, why?
15:26<SmatZ>the answer could be anything including sprite numbers :-x
15:27<SmatZ>but it has to be something evident...
15:27<dragonhorseboy>hrm
15:27<dragonhorseboy>its at like 11/11 clients but only 7/8 companies .. I'm wondering whats going on :/
15:27<dragonhorseboy><<wants to try that map for the second time
15:27<+glx>too many spectators I guess
15:27<Karen_>SmatZ: blame it on something else
15:27<SmatZ>two players play for the same company
15:28<+glx>or that :)
15:28-!-krix [~krics@fibhost-9-132.fibernet.bacs-net.hu] has joined #openttd
15:28*SmatZ blames me
15:28<krix>hey
15:28<SmatZ>himslef
15:28<SmatZ>hi krix
15:28<dragonhorseboy>glx...well do you even know of any other server with a small (literally) map and friendly players? ^-^
15:28<+glx>no sorry
15:28<+glx>I rarely play
15:29<+glx>except when fighting a bug
15:29<dragonhorseboy>:p
15:30<@Belugas>which you do frequently
15:30<@Belugas>which means you do play oftenly ^_^
15:30<SmatZ>:-)
15:30<Noldo>ln!
15:31-!-UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:31<dragonhorseboy>humm *wonders about just starting a fifth server or not*
15:33-!-weirdy [~weirdy@78-105-166-85.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:33<weirdy>Karen_: is the ottd.ccp:xxx got anything to do with the fsking riddle?
15:34<SmatZ>weirdy: do you mean openttd.cpp ?
15:34<weirdy>yeah
15:34<Karen_>weirdy: openttd.cpp:438 is the riddle.
15:34<weirdy>i swear it was a different riddle last time
15:35<Prof_Frink>Is it Tom Riddle?
15:35<@Belugas>weirdy, may ai say you are wearing your nick very well?
15:35<@Belugas>-ai + I
15:35<weirdy>i am?
15:35<+glx>weirdy: of course it's different, the file changed
15:35<SmatZ>:)
15:35<weirdy>how so/
15:35<Karen_>SmatZ: the one who holds the file will help
15:35<Prof_Frink>Peter!
15:35<Prof_Frink>Peter holds the file!
15:35<SmatZ>Rubidium?
15:35<Karen_>weirdy: it used to be openttd.cpp:425, but something changed.
15:35<weirdy>so it has something to do with the code for ottd Karen_?
15:36<SmatZ>I won't rather bother him with that riddle, he doesn't seem to like it ;)
15:37<@Belugas>[15:34] <weirdy> how so/ <--- your questions are weird, really weird... So oblivious that it's even strange to ask them
15:37<weirdy>i'm slow -_-
15:38<@Belugas>maybe you're not paying attention to the various comments been posted in the channel?
15:38<SmatZ>ah...
15:38<weirdy>no, i'm not
15:38<SmatZ>wohooooo
15:38<SmatZ>thanks Karen_ :)
15:38<Karen_>SmatZ: well done.
15:39<weirdy>>_>
15:39<Karen_>Belugas: follow SmatZ' lead
15:40-!-Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-237-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:40<krix>hmm
15:40<krix>Client #189 is dropped because it took longer than 500 ticks for him to join
15:40<Karen_>Belugas: the one who holds the file will help
15:41<+glx>krix: are you the sever?
15:41<krix>is this a server side problem or a client side? (because this client can connect to other servers)
15:41<@Belugas>mmh
15:41<krix>server.
15:41<+glx>slow client
15:41<+glx>(map too big for it)
15:41<krix>but it can connect to other servers.
15:41<krix>and well
15:41<+glx>or pause_on_join disabled
15:41<krix>this client was played yesterday :)
15:41<krix>its enabled.
15:42<SmatZ>it still can change while the map is being saved
15:42<krix>hmm
15:42<+glx>when a client joins, the map is saved and sent to him
15:42<weirdy>Karen_: can i solve it without using svn?
15:43<+glx>once he got it, it should do all commands performed while he was downloading in less than 500 ticks
15:45<Noldo>what about the commands performed while that catch up?
15:45<dragonhorseboy>hm just asking but anyone want try a challenging roads-only map? ^-^
15:45<@Belugas>weirdy, i can answer at least this one for karen: yes, you do not need svn.
15:45<@Belugas>the sources are available on nightlies and on git
15:45<+glx>Noldo: with pause_on-join that should not happen ;)
15:45<Karen_>weirdy: svn can never be a problem for any riddle; there are web-interfaces
15:45<Noldo>glx: true
15:46<weirdy>Karen_: does the 438 relate to line number/
15:46<weirdy>?
15:46<Karen_>weirdy: have you ever had contact with source files before?
15:46<weirdy>yes
15:47<weirdy>someone tell me what the 438 is for
15:47<Karen_>weirdy: have you then ever come across error messages?
15:47<+glx>openttd.cpp:438 is a standard notation (we use it often)
15:47<weirdy>oh, error 438?
15:48<+glx>no
15:48<Karen_>weirdy: no
15:48<weirdy>:/
15:48<@Belugas>no File openttd.cpp, line number 438
15:48<@Belugas>pfffffff
15:48<SmatZ>:)
15:48<+glx>assert reached file:line
15:48<weirdy>right, but line 438 is the begining of an if statement
15:48<+glx>it's not
15:48<weirdy>are you counting whitespace Karen_?
15:48<@Belugas>depends on which version
15:48<Prof_Frink>weirdy: If you're using an old copy it may be 425
15:49<weirdy>generation_seed = InteractiveRandom(); ?
15:49<+glx>that's the line
15:49<Karen_>weirdy: yes
15:49<weirdy>glx: what does that mean?
15:49<+glx>you need to find something about this line
15:50<Prof_Frink>No, that's not it at all.
15:50<Prof_Frink>You need to find something to with which to bribe Karen_ or SmatZ.
15:50<weirdy>i'm looking at r12919
15:51-!-raimar3 [~hawk@p5489DDA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:52<weirdy>WTF DO I DO?
15:52-!-lolEee [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
15:52<weirdy>r12919 is the one i want to look at, right?
15:53-!-ziegenbot [~Allwin@p5B3255FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:53<+glx>the rev doesn't really matter if you know what line it is
15:53<Prof_Frink>Ooh look, weirdy is slowly going more insane
15:54<weirdy>Karen_: do i need to look at r12919?
15:54<Karen_>look at it long enough and you might go blind
15:54<weirdy>-_-
15:56-!-raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DCD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:57<weirdy>Karen_: should i be looking at the line that reads "#if defined(WINCE) && defined(_DEBUG)"?
15:57<Prof_Frink>Aww, there's very little swearing in the sources
15:57<Karen_>weirdy: if you like; but it won't help you.
15:57<Prof_Frink>weirdy: You need to see beyond the code
15:57<weirdy>:/
15:57<+glx><weirdy> generation_seed = InteractiveRandom(); ? <-- THAT IS THE LINE
15:58<weirdy>Geeks should be banned from making riddles
15:58<Karen_>is there a punichment for being stupid?
15:58<Prof_Frink>Karen_: Yes, it's called "being weirdy"
15:58<@peter1138>yes
15:58-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*riddle@*.lylix.net] by peter1138
15:58-!-Karen_ was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [like this]
15:58<@peter1138>woo, 3000t train
15:58<weirdy>D: WHAT DID YOU DO
15:58<@peter1138>on 4000hp
16:01<@Belugas>weirdy, you can still talk to karen on MP
16:01<weirdy>MP?
16:01<@Belugas>type /query Karen_
16:01<weirdy>multiplayer?
16:01<@Belugas>pffffff
16:01<weirdy>oh, i know that
16:02<@Belugas>or PM
16:02<dragonhorseboy>*sighs*
16:02<@Belugas>totally
16:02-!-weirdy [~weirdy@78-105-166-85.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [sodding people and their silly riddles ¬_¬]
16:02<Prof_Frink>Member of Parliament? Prime Minister?
16:03-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*riddle@*.lylix.net] by peter1138
16:03<SmatZ>what
16:04<SmatZ>solved #3 :)
16:04<@Belugas>Prof_Frink : smart ass...
16:04-!-Karen_ [~riddle@vps-216-75-24-180.lylix.net] has joined #openttd
16:04<Prof_Frink>SmatZ: cnut.
16:04<SmatZ>heeh
16:04<Karen_>SmatZ: again, nice job.
16:04<SmatZ>thanks :)
16:06<Karen_>SmatZ: dominik solved this one with one attempt.
16:07<SmatZ>and #4
16:07<SmatZ>I am not sure if I did
16:07<Karen_>glad to see you did too.
16:08<henkie>is it possible to influence a primary industry to produce more?
16:08<dragonhorseboy>hm well if anyone want to check for my server in the list and have fun ^-^ (several grfpack grf aside to george's plane grf)
16:09<@peter1138>george has a plane grf?
16:09<henkie>like calling in the maffia
16:09<dragonhorseboy>peter...several yeah
16:11<@peter1138>ah... they're probably all called beta2 as well
16:11<@peter1138>george has not really got the hang of version numbering
16:12-!-sartek [~sartek@82.78.230.182] has joined #openttd
16:12-!-replaced [~replaced@irkmaffia.com] has joined #openttd
16:12<replaced>oh hai!
16:12<replaced>any dev around?
16:13<dragonhorseboy>peter...not quite
16:13<dragonhorseboy>just check his thread on the russia forum... several neverchanged releases there ^-^
16:13<dragonhorseboy>but either way...I've used this planeset for as long as I can imagine - to our own
16:13<replaced>i just built openettd 0.6 on HP-UX
16:13-!-elmex [~elmex@e180074145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:15<replaced>speedy, zoom, zomg! i have some patches
16:15<@Belugas>cool
16:16<replaced>includes mostly
16:16<replaced>and the stuff for configure
16:16<@Belugas>you migh post them on bugs.opentd.org
16:16<@peter1138>dragonhorseboy: EACH
16:17<replaced>all right!
16:17<SmatZ>HP-UX hprx B.11.23 U ia64 replaced: what is your uname -a?
16:17<replaced>HP-UX grogaldr B.11.11 U 9000/785 2005479164 unlimited-user license
16:18<@Belugas>WIN-XP gf9adfho B.11.HU x386 what-the-heck-is-that??
16:18<SmatZ>" 367 MHz PA-RISC 8500" nice :)
16:18<SmatZ>Belugas: :-)
16:18<replaced>400mhz to be precise :)
16:18<SmatZ>:)
16:19<+glx>Belugas: MINGW32_NT-5.1 LOIC 1.0.11(0.46/3/2) 2007-12-05 00:35 i686 Msys
16:19<+glx>that's mine ;)
16:19<@Belugas>lol
16:19<replaced>gotta compile it on alpha too!
16:20<SmatZ>:)
16:20<Karen_>Linux ottd.info 2.6.18-028stab053 #1 SMP Sun Feb 3 07:35:28 GMT 2008 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
16:20<SmatZ>:-)
16:20-!-bob27 [4b214c3a@67.207.141.120] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
16:20<@orudge>which of my 8 or so machines do you want? :p
16:21<SmatZ>:-D
16:21<replaced>Karen_: too plain :>
16:21-!-Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37edb.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
16:21<SmatZ>orudge: some exotic
16:21<@orudge>hmm
16:21<@orudge>obiwan is probably the most exotic
16:21<dih>ben
16:21<@orudge>Linux version 2.6.18-6-486 (Debian 2.6.18.dfsg.1-18etch1) (waldi@debian.org) (gcc version 4.1.2 20061115 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-21)) #1 Sun Feb 10 22:06:33 UTC 2008
16:21<@orudge>VIA C7 Processor 1500MHz!
16:21<SmatZ>hehe :-)
16:21<@orudge>which Debian seems to think is a 486, annoyingly
16:22<SmatZ>80486 @ 1500MHz
16:22<@orudge>it's currently running at 20 degrees C
16:22<@orudge>probably the coolest processor I've ever owned
16:22<dih>i have one of those
16:22<dih>no
16:22<SmatZ>cool :)
16:22<dih>i have a c3
16:22<@orudge>http://obiwan.lan.owenrudge.net/phpsysinfo/
16:22<@orudge>aux temp is a little bit... broken ;)
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16:23-!-sickie88 is now known as SickieAway
16:23<SmatZ>nah, you just got fire there
16:23<replaced>mah netbsd machine is sleeping
16:23<replaced>:)
16:23<SmatZ>:)
16:23<Prof_Frink>replaced: Does it contain two slices of bread?
16:24<replaced>no i dont have the room...
16:24<replaced>because its full of awesome!
16:24<SmatZ>if I knew password to my modem
16:24<SmatZ>I would show you :)
16:28<replaced>is it ok to send netbsd and hpux patches in the same pr?
16:29<SmatZ>I think it is better to open two tasks
16:31<replaced>they are made for pkgsrc.org so the configure patch is one file
16:32-!-Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d04c8ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
16:35<krix>bye
16:35-!-krix [~krics@fibhost-9-132.fibernet.bacs-net.hu] has left #openttd [Leaving]
16:36-!-Immow [~MIYU@c51474833.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:37<Immow>hi
16:37<Immow>I was wondering how to star a sandbox game so I can design some junctions?
16:37<Immow>start*
16:38<mynetdude>Immow on your own or in multiplayer?
16:38<Immow>own
16:38<dih>double click openttd.exe on windows, openttd.app on os x, ./openttd on linux
16:38-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-363c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:39-!-elmex [~elmex@e180074145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
16:39<Immow>building something cost money. and I just want a map tahts flat and i have unlimited money
16:39<Immow>cos my junction will be "big" :)
16:39<Prof_Frink>Immow: ctrl-alt-c
16:39<Prof_Frink>Click the "give me more moneys" button repeatedly
16:41<Immow>fun for me that ctrl alt c opens my ATI catalyst control center :)
16:41<Prof_Frink>Immow: ctrl-alt-win-c
16:41<Immow>thnx
16:42<@peter1138>stupid ati :)
16:42<Immow>:3
16:42<@peter1138>stealing our cheat key
16:44<dragonhorseboy>:p
16:45-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-225-220.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
16:47<Ammler>You can't replace to a evaluation vehicle...
16:47<@Belugas>wooops... i should not have deleted that file :(
16:47<Ammler>is that meant to be?
16:47<SmatZ>:-x
16:47<SmatZ>Ammler: I don't think so
16:47<Karen_>glx: cold, very cold!
16:48<+glx>yeah I failed to see what I need in the savegame
16:48<Karen_>glx: the most obvious thing.
16:48<Karen_>(for your information: filenames are generated randomly on upload and are unrelated to the riddle itself)
16:49<Karen_>glx: not that obvious :-p
16:50<Immow>lol
16:50<Immow>this junction is gonna insane
16:51<dih>checkout openttdcoop.org juctionary
16:51<Immow>:0
16:54-!-divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:56<SmatZ>Ammler: strange, it seems to be shown in my autoreplace window, and it seems to work
16:57<Ammler>SmatZ: yep
16:57<Ammler>the engine is gone now
16:57<Ammler>maybe something to do with engine_pool or something else
16:57<SmatZ>there is no engine pool
16:57<Ammler>can't reproduce it right away
16:57<SmatZ>:-x
16:58<dragonhorseboy>any of you know about pbi+brickyard?
16:58<@Belugas>cosmic rays have hit you
17:02<Immow>how do i remove a city
17:02<Immow>I can buldoze it but name stay's
17:02<SmatZ>Immow: in the scenario editor
17:02<SmatZ>you can't in game
17:03<dragonhorseboy>either way is the brickyard supposed to be slight broken in openttd yet?
17:03<Karen_>glx: still very cold..
17:03<SmatZ>:)
17:04<dragonhorseboy>I've tried generate a map both with and without terragenesis & smooth and hilly landscape ... in all four I get zero quarries :/
17:06<+glx>dragonhorseboy: what version?
17:06<dragonhorseboy>0.6.0
17:06<+glx>normal then
17:06<+glx>code is broken, they can't appear
17:06<dragonhorseboy>hm thanks, know its not just me now
17:06<+glx>fixed in 0.6.1 RC1 though
17:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12922 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIStation::SetName() (Yexo)
17:07<Wolf01>'night
17:07-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host193-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:07<dragonhorseboy>fixed? seriously?
17:07<dragonhorseboy>hm *asks my friend about RC1*
17:07<SmatZ>I tried trunk, PBI 1.2, 1024x1024, Normal industries, no quarry neither
17:08<+glx>but in 0.6.0 it was impossible to even place them by hand
17:08<dragonhorseboy>smatz.. even brickchain V1.31 too?
17:08<Immow>hmmm probably overkill this "junction"
17:08<Immow>http://immow.nl/scr/index.php?pic=5.jpg
17:08<dragonhorseboy>glx yeah....I still wonder why ECS wouldn't load here but then blah I guess what do I really know
17:09<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: strange, I can't find that GRF
17:09-!-UFO64 [~UFO64@130.111.235.135] has joined #openttd
17:09<@peter1138>Ammler: engine_pool problems did you say?
17:10<dragonhorseboy>smatz...hmm I got it on website link from someone...perhaps pikka's livejournal or pikkarail website?
17:10<dragonhorseboy>if its not in either - I have no clue then 0_o
17:10<Ammler>peter1138: no, forget it :-)
17:10<@peter1138>oh
17:10<dragonhorseboy>either way anyone here run ECS in openttd?
17:10<Ammler>can't reproduce
17:10<+glx>SmatZ: it's in ottdcoop pack
17:10-!-Zahl [~Zahl@p549F18CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
17:10<dih>Ammler: you can't reproduce?
17:10<dih>you poor sod
17:10<dih>:-D
17:10<Karen_>glx: if you look at the riddle for the first time, what would you try to do?
17:11<+glx>first thing I tried was getseed :)
17:11<+glx>then many scrollto
17:12<@peter1138>when i first looked at the page i saw white with images around it
17:12<Karen_>glx: have i ever provided unneeded information with a riddle?
17:13<@peter1138>so i guess it's a firefox-only page
17:14<SmatZ>depends if your browser supports translucency
17:14<@peter1138>ie7 does, just it's done in a different way to firefox
17:16-!-mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: my Mac is sleeping...]
17:17<SmatZ>http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ottd.info%2Fstyle.css isn't really happy :-x
17:18<dragonhorseboy>not sure why the server decided to convert but either way...
17:19<dragonhorseboy>http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?bb30d4a3a3.jpg any ONE clue why ecs never works (re 0.6.0) or its probably just me?
17:19*dragonhorseboy never could understand why it'll never let itself be enabled
17:19<dragonhorseboy>often just played the map with default industry on these grfs otherwise
17:20-!-Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37edb.bb.sky.com] has quit []
17:20<+glx>dragonhorseboy: ecs town MUST be the first
17:20<+glx>just read the error message given by other ECS sets
17:21<Karen_>SmatZ: thank you, a stupid thing to forget to check; peter1138: can you check now, problems should be fixed.
17:21<SmatZ>no problem :)
17:21<dragonhorseboy>glx...still does the same...ecs town vector stays disabled and refuses to even enable
17:21-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F55AD0.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
17:22<dragonhorseboy>sometimes I wonder if there's something bugging that one grf
17:22<+glx>and if you put it before ttrs?
17:24*Sacro is stuck on question 2 :(
17:24<dragonhorseboy>jeeze...*bangs head on wood table*
17:24<dragonhorseboy>glx...you're too clever I didn't think of ttrs being possible at fault for messing up ecs
17:24<dragonhorseboy>when I shoved ttrs to the very bottom then started a new map... ttrs ended up disabled but ecs is fully working
17:25<dragonhorseboy>hmmm ecs doesn't quite replace 100% of the town buildings .. but I guess I can live with that
17:25<Karen_>Sacro: the one who holds the file will help
17:25<dragonhorseboy>*hugs glx so hard*
17:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12923 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttd.nfo overrides.nfo): -Change: Add engine GRF overrides for some common sets.
17:25<+glx>dragonhorseboy: ttrs has some params to disable its own industries
17:26<dragonhorseboy>ttrs industries?...huh?
17:27<dragonhorseboy>you telling me someone added industries into ttrs? (I don't even recall v2 having any which is what I run in ttdp now)
17:27<dragonhorseboy>hmm that explains it now
17:28-!-DGMurdockIII [~dgmurdock@208-70-44-35.bb.hrtc.net] has joined #openttd
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17:29<DGMurdockIII>hi
17:29<DGMurdockIII>do i need the orignal game to play this
17:30<+glx>the data files from it yes
17:30<Karen_>Sacro: blame it on something else
17:30<dih>DGMurdockIII: it sais in the readme file
17:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12924 /trunk/ (49 files in 8 dirs): -Feature: Introducing the so called 'engine pool' which primarily removes the fixed engine type limits and also happens to allow (with the patch option 'dynamic_engines') multiple NewGRF vehicle sets to coexist.
17:32<dragonhorseboy>hmm glx...not sure if its just the map itself but some of the ecs industries such as the forest are saying 'cargos waiting to be processed: 0 vehicles'
17:32<Prof_Frink>peter1138: WOOT
17:32<dragonhorseboy>at least 'production last month:' actually says '0 tonnes of wood'
17:33<+glx>dragonhorseboy: read ECS pages on ttdpatch wiki
17:34<replaced>ok, patches sent to bugtracker, thanks
17:34<SmatZ>thanks
17:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12925 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustry::GetAmountOfStationsAround() (Yexo)
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17:38<dragonhorseboy>glx hm so several industries need some vehicles anytime to be able to produce more than zero I take it?
17:39<+glx>not really, they produce without them
17:39<+glx>anyway the production never start immediately
17:39<Karen_>a very good night to you all
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17:45<dragonhorseboy>hmmm ecs sure looks complex for a poor single player (to me) heh
17:46<@peter1138>it is
17:46<@peter1138>PBI FTW!
17:46<dragonhorseboy>peter...*points to quarries*
17:46<dragonhorseboy>:p
17:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12926 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r12925: it has been a while, but... forgot to update regression (tnx glx)
17:49<dragonhorseboy>hmm I remember why I didn't want to bother going outside 0.6.0 anymore
17:49<dragonhorseboy>0.6.0-RC1 is erroring about some absurb grfs I don't even see anywhere .. neverminding about something else too
17:49<dragonhorseboy>:-|
17:52<dragonhorseboy>just what the hell is tbtest12.grf anyhow?
17:52<dragonhorseboy>:/
17:52<@peter1138>0.6.1-RC1
17:53<@peter1138>no point in 0.6.0-RC1 if you've got 0.6.0 ...
17:56-!-XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
17:56-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1D583.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:57<dragonhorseboy>peter...there is one tho: I can actually see quarries now :) (now to fix RC1 to shut up like I did with 0.6.0 before ... brb)
17:57-!-Osai^Kendo`off is now known as Osai
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18:03<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12927 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't crash on the GUI when an AI failed to compile and you still manual it (bug by glx)
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18:07<Sacro>@calc atan 3.14
18:07<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
18:07<Sacro>@calc atan( 3.14)
18:07<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 1.2624806646
18:07<Sacro>@calc atan( 3.14 * 2)
18:07<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 1.41288640609
18:07<Sacro>mhmm
18:07<Sacro>@calc tan 1
18:07<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
18:07<Sacro>@calc tan(1)
18:07<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 1.55740772465
18:08<Sacro>@calc atan(1.55)
18:08<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 0.997830183906
18:08<Tefad>secreting those enzymes
18:08-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
18:08<Sacro>@calc atan(2)
18:08<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 1.10714871779
18:08<Tefad>secreting those hormones toooooo
18:08<SmatZ>Sacro: you can PM DorpsGek if you don't know
18:08<Sacro>though hang on...
18:08<Sacro>is that radians or degrees
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18:09<SmatZ>atan(1) = pi/2
18:09<Sacro>SmatZ: ah indeed
18:09<Sacro>so atan(2) = pi
18:09<Ammler>peter1138: is your overwrite nfo code already documented?
18:10<SmatZ>Sacro: no, it is not a linear functions
18:10<SmatZ>-s
18:10<Sacro>you sure?
18:10<Sacro>@calc atan(1)
18:10<@DorpsGek>Sacro: 0.785398163397
18:10<Sacro>sigh
18:10<Sacro>i can't figure this
18:11<SmatZ>errr sorry
18:11<Tefad>my pancreas attracts every other pancrease in the universe with a force proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the distance between them
18:11<SmatZ>p/4
18:11<SmatZ>@calc atan(1) * 4
18:11<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 3.14159265359
18:11<Sacro>so atan(2) = pi/2?
18:12<Sacro>no, 1.10
18:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r12928 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't crash when reloading an AI that has a compile-error (bug by Fingon)
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18:13<SmatZ>atan(0)
18:13<SmatZ>@calc atan(0)
18:13<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 0
18:13<SmatZ>well... tangent is periodic with period of pi
18:14<SmatZ>so it is in fact pi
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18:14<dragonhorseboy>hm quick question
18:14<dragonhorseboy>any of you in here have serbian narrow gauge train grf?
18:14<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: it deplaces DEM
18:14<SmatZ>-d+r
18:14<SmatZ>if that is your question
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18:15<dragonhorseboy>well I'm wondering if you're able to load it in game?
18:15<SmatZ>do not change grfs in-game
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18:15<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: you need narraw gauge tracks too
18:16<dragonhorseboy>loading only it and narrow gauge rails v0.93a ... the trainset always disable itself fatally in either order in newgrf .. even if I remove the rails grf :-/
18:16<dragonhorseboy>and no this time I don't have anything else loaded
18:17<dragonhorseboy>I should mention both grfs are from grfpack7-beta1
18:17<Ammler>hmm, our server is dead
18:18<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: did you read the readmes?
18:19<Ammler>7beta is quite old
18:20<Ammler>you need to load ngrails with 1. parameter = 4
18:20<Ammler>then it will replace maglev with narrow gauge,
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18:27<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=serbiannarrowgaugeki6.png
18:27<dragonhorseboy>sometimes I wonder where 0.5.3 went to as it was easy to figure out what was to do
18:27<dragonhorseboy>(neverminding to today I still have no clue where my gamesaves are on the hd from 0.6.0 :p )
18:29<Rubidium>dragonhorseboy: then you should start by NOT reading the readme
18:30<dragonhorseboy>rubidium...well excuse me for c>games>openttd060>save> not existing when >openttd053>save> it does
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18:31<dragonhorseboy>brb
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18:32<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: readme.txt:139
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18:43<dragonhorseboy>smatz..there's no 'my document' at all here
18:44<dragonhorseboy>thats why I wonder why openttd can't just use the old /save/ folder
18:44<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: depends on your language
18:44<dragonhorseboy>english
18:44<SmatZ>almost ALL programs save data to that directory
18:44<SmatZ>so I wonder you wonder
18:45<dragonhorseboy>nope
18:45<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: os?
18:45<dragonhorseboy>they (especially photoshop) go to c:\files\ and any caches/scratchdisk are c:\raw\
18:46<dragonhorseboy>ammler.. xp home
18:46<Ammler>SmatZ: just read the readme, there is no "global" share for linux?
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18:47<SmatZ>Ammler: I think it saves shared data to the installation directory only
18:47<SmatZ>eg. /usr/share/games/openttd/bin/data
18:47<SmatZ>or si
18:47<Rubidium>Ammler: shared directory is conceptually different from the installation directory (at least in my opinion)
18:47<SmatZ>so it is /usr/share/games/openttd/data
18:48<Rubidium>in the shared directory all users should be able to write, whereas that does not need to be the case in the installation directory
18:48<Ammler>indeed
18:48<SmatZ>hmm
18:48<Ammler>there is no common location for that in linux
18:50<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: check C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\Documents\OpenTTD
18:50<SmatZ>that folder may be marked as hidden in default windows settings
18:50<SmatZ>byt you should have "My Documents" link on your desktop
18:50<SmatZ>or Document
18:50<SmatZ>or whatever
18:51<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: what windows do you use?
18:51<SmatZ>if Win9x, then you have C:\Documents\OpenTTD
18:52<SmatZ>and you can always do "Windows doggie search *.sav"
18:52<Ammler>and is there a reason, why scenario location is handled not as saves?
18:53<SmatZ>scenarios are global
18:53<Ammler>no
18:53<SmatZ>I guess
18:53<dragonhorseboy>xp home and there's no 'my document' .. only 'files' or 'raw' aside to the windows folder being the typical itself
18:53<SmatZ>aren't? hmm
18:53<Ammler>default is working directory
18:54<Ammler>cfg saves are in ~/.openttd/
18:54<Ammler>but if I like to load scenario
18:54<+glx>"my documents" is present on all windows since win95
18:54<Ammler>oh, maybe I need to create a folder scenario there
18:56<Ammler>SmatZ: a small glitch :-)
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18:56<dragonhorseboy>glx...not if you're doing custom install
18:56<+glx>then you don't follow microsoft standard
18:56<Ammler>then you define mydocuments self, like I did
18:56<Ammler>partition d:
18:56<Rubidium>dragonhorseboy: then you would've fucked up the registry in such a manner that you would know where you would've put your "My documents" directory.
18:57<Ammler>maybe its d:\OpenTTD ?
18:57<dragonhorseboy>glx..not true... windows does not require that silly (which is often empty on many other systems anyhow) folder
18:57<+glx>Ammler: yes I redirect My documents to d:
18:57<dragonhorseboy>just like I seriously do have a 98se pc that has no explorer.exe physically (and yes it does run)
18:57<dragonhorseboy>^-^
18:58<dragonhorseboy>ammler...heh
19:01<+glx>openttd just ask windows for the document dir
19:01<+glx>as specified in msdn
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19:08<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: you can still keep the old way by keeping the cfg in the directory where the openttd.exe is.
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19:09<Rubidium>(again as described in the readme)
19:11-!-Osai is now known as Osai`off
19:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12929 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1967](r12560): town rating was too often reset to Mediocre
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19:32<teeg>oh, while I've patched ottd for a friend of mine (apparently buildottd caused his computer to bluescreen repeatedly, so I had to do it for him) to support his (and my) 30" monitor, I figure I might as well see if I can't get that in to trunk: http://mindriot.as/bigger_resolution-r12929.patch (yes yes, it's a simple patch. sue me.)
19:33-!-elmex [~elmex@e180074145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:34<Rubidium>teeg: fails to apply horribly on trunk
19:34<teeg>oh?
19:35<+glx>use a clean trunk next time
19:48<Rubidium>how hard can it be to sync such a simple patch to trunk...
19:50-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c58.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:50<+glx>it should apply with an offset in r12778
19:50<teeg>It was actually made against 0.6.1-rc1, but apparently you made a modification in 12779 which removed that constant in its entirety from ottd.
19:51<+glx>nice you found it ;)
19:51<+glx>now tell us what it means
19:52<teeg>and I'm currently recompiling trunk to see if that fixes the resolution issue. which is why I went silent and didn't sputter around here arms flailing helplessly.
19:52<teeg>and the answer to that is very simple. it no longer applies. forget the patch.
19:53-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:54<SmatZ>:)
19:55<teeg>or, at least it does on windows. I haven't got linux running on this monitor, so I can't verify those platforms.
20:13<ln>22:30 <@Belugas> which means you do play oftenly ^_^ 22:30 < Noldo> ln! <-- English only
20:14<Lakie>Hmm... that reminds me, Belugas, did you ever have any luck with that icon?
20:15<+glx>Lakie: last time I tried, MSVC didn't like it
20:16<Lakie>It didn't?
20:16<Lakie>Works fine using 2008 here
20:16<Lakie>Although I guess I should try an older version like 2005.
20:16<+glx>I use 2005 express
20:17<+glx>I can retry :)
20:17<+glx>I used the file posted on the forum
20:17<Digitalfox_Home>Never thought of saying this.. But I think I have too many vehicles grf sets loaded.. Like 200 type of trains available =0
20:18<Digitalfox_Home>But only two set's for ships.. Newships and mars ships.. So 15 ships.. :p
20:18<ln>Bjarni!
20:18<@Belugas>Lakie, trying once more now. gonna fetch the icon once more from forums tough
20:19<@Belugas>while this http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2065.asp article is printing :)
20:19*Lakie supposes it is possible VS 2005 doesn't like it as it requires a major patch just to run on Vista.
20:19<@Belugas>cool site
20:19<Digitalfox_Home>But wagons only appear in 1920.. :\ Any trains wagons sets that appears before 1920 available?
20:19<Lakie>So its logical it'd have issues with some of the Vista specific addictions to the icon
20:23<+glx>Error,...1,...error RC2176 : old DIB in ../media/openttd.ico; pass it through SDKPAINT,...d:\developpement\ottd\trunk3\src\ottdres.rc,...37
20:23<Ammler>Digitalfox_Home: canada set
20:23<+glx>canset even have trains going "backward"
20:24<Ammler>:-)
20:24<+glx>mingw (windres.exe) doesn't complain
20:24<Lakie>Hmm...
20:25<Lakie>Like I said VS 2008 is happy with it., but if 2005 doesn't work with it, then thats good enough reason not to use it.
20:25<+glx>should be something minor
20:26<Digitalfox_Home>Ammler: But right now canadian ans sets that use narrow track give problems with engine pool.. The track overruns maglev track and looks bad..
20:26<Lakie>As I'd imagine the majority of windows users most likely use 2005.
20:26*glx asks google
20:26<Ammler>Digitalfox_Home: try with ngrails and parameter 4
20:26*Belugas adds icon as a new one, so openttdvista.ico instead
20:27<Rubidium>in the realm of openttd I think it's gcc
20:27<+glx>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f8sa1zw0(VS.80).aspx <-- msdn is useful as always :/
20:27<Rubidium>that gets the most users
20:27<Digitalfox_Home>Ammler: I can deactivate narrow track and it's trains?
20:28<Ammler>dunno
20:28<Digitalfox_Home>I have read it's readme but didn't find that parameter
20:28<Lakie>Odd.
20:28<Ammler>from ngrails?
20:28<Digitalfox_Home>ok
20:28<Digitalfox_Home>Ammler no from canada set
20:29<Ammler>ngrails makes narrow gauge tracks
20:29<Lakie>GCC on windows over VS?
20:29<Ammler>with parameter 4, it replaces maglev
20:29<Lakie>On Linux I could understand...
20:29<+glx>http://www.rw-designer.com/compile-vista-icon <-- looks like there's no easy way
20:30<+glx>I mainly use gcc
20:30<SmatZ>256x256 what
20:30<teeg>buildottd uses gcc, doesn't it?
20:30<+glx>I use msvc to build release and debug
20:30<SmatZ>add SVG icons for Gnome
20:33<@Belugas>adding the big icon in the project/openttd_vs80.vcproj.in works nicely, it's even compiled
20:33<Rubidium>Lakie: bottd is used by many
20:33<@Belugas>now, got to see the result
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20:34<+glx>Belugas: you need vista to see it
20:34<Lakie>True that.
20:34<@Belugas>haa..
20:34<@Belugas>well..
20:34<@Belugas>it explains :D
20:35<Lakie>Hehe
20:37<@Belugas>now, if you excuse me, got a wife to join in front to tv
20:37<Lakie>Heh, ok.
20:38<+glx>I wonder if the icon is ok with windres
20:39<Lakie>windres?
20:39<+glx>mingw ressource compiler
20:40<Lakie>Ah.
20:40<+glx>similar to rc.exe
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20:42<Lakie>I see.
20:42<+glx>http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/OTTD-MINGW-custom-r12929.zip <-- I need a vista user to test it
20:42<+glx>big exe because debug build (I stripped it)
20:43*Lakie downloads
20:44<+glx>-rwxr-xr-x 1 Loic Administrateurs 49226567 Apr 30 00:23 openttd.exe <-- unstripped
20:44<+glx>-rwxr-xr-x 1 Loic Administrateurs 4028416 Apr 30 00:39 openttd.exe <-- stripped
20:44<Lakie>That works
20:45<+glx>now I need to find how to do it with 2005
20:47<+glx>nice to see how non-MS tools works better than MS tools ;)
20:48<Lakie>Hehe
20:48<Lakie>2008 works fine
20:48*Lakie hides
20:48<+glx>maybe the only way is to install 2008 express
20:49<Lakie>I have noticed that 2005 doesn't run on Vista by default (it requires SP1 plus a special Vista SP 1 addon sp...
20:49<+glx>yeah my brother had some fun to install it
20:50<+glx>and you need to run it as administrator
20:50<+glx>else you can't debug asp/c# pages
20:51<Lakie>You can debug aspx pages?!
20:51<+glx>yes, the code behind
20:51*Lakie didn't know you could, would have helped him earlier trying to work out why an aspx page was faulty earlier...
20:53<Lakie>Gave up in the end as I could workout where the .cs part was. :/
21:10-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
21:12<mynetdude>how's the land of 'choo-choo' coming along?
21:26<Sionide>it's choo-choo'ing on the infinitely long track to the release of 1.0 i guess mynetdude..
21:31<mynetdude>release of 1.0 of ottd?
21:31<Sionide>yeah....
21:32<SmatZ>choo-choo?
21:34<mynetdude>lolz
21:34<mynetdude>well I spend more time doing the train part of ottd
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22:31<TheJosh>Hey
22:33<TheJosh>how is everyone?
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22:42<Tefad>http://cuttingedge.wavestreamer.com:3272/listen.pls
22:42<Tefad>ttd music played in realtime
22:42<Tefad>: D
22:42<Tefad>at least for the next couple of minutes
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23:23<NukeBuster>cheers
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---Logclosed Wed Apr 30 00:00:06 2008