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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-03

---Logopened Sat May 03 00:00:10 2008
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02:15<Roest>morning
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02:27<Eddi|zuHause2>someone should fix Pinchiukas_ connection...
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03:49<Roujin>I've already asked some pretty stupid questions yesterday, and now i'm back for more!
03:49<Roujin>oh the joy!
03:50<mynetdude>Roujin go for it
03:50<mynetdude>the only stupid question is the question never asked
03:52-!-Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-234-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
03:53<Roujin>ok, so i actually managed to get my code proper yesterday, using std::sets if someone remembers..
03:53<Roujin>thanks to eddi btw ^^
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03:54<Roujin>now i wonder about the difference of malloc and new
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03:54<Roujin>i guess malloc is C and new is C++ .. right?
03:55<Roujin>but i see malloc in use in openttd code all the time...
03:56<bowman>they're pretty different things
03:57<Roujin>aren't they the same in allocating some memory on the heap and returning the pointer to it?
03:57-!-JelloX [o@s01060060080d1060.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
03:57<bowman>new is an operator, malloc a function... new also invokes a constructor
03:57<JelloX>.... >:)
03:57<JelloX>im addicted to this game LOL
03:58<mynetdude>I think we all are
03:58<hylje>`new` is is used for the same thing as `malloc` but with different details
03:58<JelloX>started yesterday
03:58<JelloX>not that good
03:58<JelloX>but this is KICK ASS
03:58<hylje>C++ is mostly about doing what C does but slightly differently
03:59<Noldo>well...
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04:02<JelloX>where should i report a possible bug
04:02-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11C5AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:02<JelloX>it may be just me.. i dont know
04:03<Eddi|zuHause2>bugs.openttd.org
04:03<Eddi|zuHause2>but if you are not sure, you can also explain it here
04:03<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe we can solve it for you ;)
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04:03<JelloX>kk
04:04<JelloX>im on 0.6.0 just so u no
04:04<JelloX>i go to "scenerio editor"
04:04<JelloX>once it loads, i click on the land generation button
04:04<JelloX>all of it is water right now (the map)
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04:04<JelloX>click "create new scenerio"
04:05<JelloX>then "flat land"
04:05<JelloX>it comes up then disappears
04:05<JelloX>right away
04:05<JelloX>i know why because its on water and you have to have a "bump"/land raise in it so it wont disappear
04:05<JelloX>but you dont even get the chance to do that
04:06<Eddi|zuHause2>you have on the right of the window
04:06<JelloX>i just made it go to "1"
04:06<Eddi|zuHause2>a box where you can set the land height
04:06<JelloX>yeah
04:06<JelloX>lOL
04:06<JelloX>lol*
04:06<JelloX>thx Eddi|zuHause2 :D
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04:29<k-man_>hello
04:29<k-man_>why do some towns not accept goods?
04:29<JelloX>are they small?
04:30<hylje>use the tile inspector to get info about buildings
04:30<hylje>if those buildings in your catchment area are collectively over 1 of goods
04:30<k-man_>oh
04:30<k-man_>ok
04:30<hylje>it accepts goods
04:30<k-man_>ok
04:33<Eddi|zuHause2>typically, you need to have 3 office buildings
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04:37<k-man_>can you usually get a station that can accept goods?
04:37<k-man_>or you have to truck the goods in?
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04:42<JelloX>coal is the most best way to make $$? right
04:42<Wolf01>hello
04:43<JelloX>hi
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04:45<Gekz>JelloX: most best? that's redundant :P
04:45<JelloX>er
04:45<Gekz>JelloX: you might as well have said best best.
04:45<JelloX>lol
04:45<JelloX>my bad was typing something else then i changed it
04:45<Gekz>lol
04:45<Gekz>now you know :P
04:45<JelloX>lol
04:46<JelloX>coal is the best way to make $$? right
04:46<Gekz>no idea
04:46<Gekz>check the chart
04:46<Gekz>it should tell you
04:46<JelloX>on the wiki
04:46<JelloX>?
04:46<Gekz>no
04:46<Gekz>in the game
04:46<JelloX>oh
04:46<JelloX>>_<
04:46<Gekz>there is a profit chart
04:46<Gekz>lol
04:46<JelloX>started yesterday
04:46<JelloX>lol
04:46<Gekz>I see.
04:46<Gekz>I started pre-fetally
04:46<JelloX>.... O_O
04:47<Gekz>I am just too hardcore.
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04:47<JelloX>lmao
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05:05<Roujin>do I have to delete all objects I've created with new, or is there some automatic cleaner like in e.g. Java ?
05:11<Tefad>yes
05:11<Tefad>clean.
05:11<Tefad>or you shall perish.
05:12<Roujin>i thought so
05:13<Roujin>yesterday i wrote some code that didn't free the memory it allocated again, t'was fun to fast forward and watch the memory usage rise in the task manager ^_^
05:13<hylje>yay memory leaks
05:13<Tefad>wow.
05:14-!-Boyinblue0 is now known as Boyinblue0|Away
05:15<Eddi|zuHause2>Roujin: all memory is freed upon exiting the program ;)
05:21<Roujin>at least that :P
05:21<@Bjarni>there sort of is a garbage collector to free memory in C++
05:22<mynetdude>its supposed to, not all programs do it perfectly
05:22<@Bjarni>once you reach 4 GB and tries to allocate more then the app dies and you get all your memory freed
05:22<@Bjarni>it's not the recommended way to do it though
05:22<Roujin>heh
05:24<SpComb>Bjarni: what if you have a 64-bit platform?
05:24<@Bjarni>then make a 32 bit app that's executable on 64-bit CPUs
05:24<@Bjarni>or you are fucked :P
05:25<mynetdude>Bjarni I have never seen it that way, the app keeps going and your pc slows but it keeps going... some apps might die but I have seen some apps keep going and it will continue to allocate more memory than there is
05:25<Gekz>ESPLODES
05:26<@Bjarni>Roujin: depending on what you are trying to do freeing memory might be easy. I solved it in autoreplace by putting the pointer in a struct, init it to NULL and freeing it in the deconstructor. Then I make a var of one of those structs (a var, not a pointer to one) and it will automatically call the deconstructor once it goes out of scope (like reaching a return)
05:27<@Bjarni>then I didn't have to consider all the possible ways to exit the function even though it has more than one return
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05:27<@Bjarni>that's one way of solving this issue when you don't waste time on a garbage collector
05:28<@Bjarni>mynetdude: I once had an app with a memory leak that died hard due to the 4 GB limit.... I read about it and found it to be a known issue that they were working on
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05:28<mynetdude>oh my bad... u mean a 4GB limit... but I've seen apps that can continue beyond the 1GB or 2GB physical limit
05:29<@Bjarni>then it's placed in the swap... 4 GB is the 32 bit physical limit so even 64 bit computers with say 8 GB RAM will kill 32 bit apps reaching 4 GB
05:29<Roujin>Bjarni: clever solution
05:30<mynetdude>well I know that the 32bit is the 4GB limit but it can't overflow to swap?
05:30-!-Boyinblue0|Away is now known as Boyinblue0
05:30<mynetdude>right... cuz 32bit apps can only use the 4GB physical limit
05:31<mynetdude>but what about the swap though? that shouldn't matter with physical limits
05:35<@Bjarni>the physical limit is how much memory you can access with 32 bit addresses
05:35<@Bjarni>once every single bit in the address is 1 then you reach 4 GB and you can't go any higher
05:36<Roujin>hmm.. now I'm limiting the size of traffic light consists to a certain number, because the cpu usage raises by at least n^2 where n is the size of a traffic light consist
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05:36<Roujin>question is, should i just limit it to 16 hardcoded (or something) or make YAPS? ^_^
05:36<Roujin>(yet another patch setting (TM))
05:36<@Bjarni>that depends
05:37<@Bjarni>what will it mean to increase/decrease consists?
05:37<Roujin>to increase/decrease the limit?
05:38<@Bjarni>what effect will it have on the lights?
05:38<Roujin>it will be forbidden to place more than [limit] lights adjacent to each other
05:38<Roujin>much like station spread limit
05:38<@Bjarni>ahh
05:39<@Bjarni>isn't 16 really high?
05:39<@Bjarni>wouldn't something like 4 do?
05:40<Roujin>well 16 should do for all cases I could think of.. 4 may be seen as too much a limit by some people maybe..
05:40<Gekz>it's traffic lights
05:40<Gekz>they're relatively redundant
05:40<Gekz>4 should be fine.
05:41<@Bjarni>what will the effect be by placing two next to each other?
05:41<Roujin>they are linked together to form one crossing
05:41<@Bjarni>and you want one crossing of 16 tiles?
05:41<Roujin>e.g. you can make a 2x2 tile crossing of two "highways"
05:41<@Bjarni>sounds big
05:42<Roujin>probably it's too big, but who knows what some people invent? ^_
05:42<@Bjarni>what if you have two T sections next to each other with lights but they aren't connected
05:42<@Bjarni>did you think of that?
05:43<Roujin>I stumbled over it already, but didn't fix it yet
05:43<Roujin>as of now, they're linked
05:43<@Bjarni>make it a setting
05:44<Roujin>however, maybe it's not even bad if they're linked..
05:44<Gekz>how isn't it.
05:44<@Bjarni>then the people who wants really big crossings can increase this if they have the CPU power to do so
05:44<@Bjarni>how would we benefit from them being linked?
05:45<Roujin>it just means their states are switched at the same time.. it would look better
05:45<Phantasm>Any plans for multicore support on OTTD?
05:45<Roujin>if we have a highway style road, with exits next to each other on both sides, with a traffic light over both
05:45<Roujin>err.. hard to explain in words
05:46<@Bjarni>Phantasm: I tried to improve that at one time... turned out to increase speed 10% on dualcore CPUs in ideal situations and decrease speed 20% in worst case
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05:46<@Bjarni>and single core CPUs are always worst case
05:46<@Bjarni>so it kind of stopped there
05:46<Phantasm>Bjarni: Depends on how it is done.
05:47<@Bjarni>worst case being only using one type of vehicle while best case would be equal CPU load on all vehicle types
05:47<Phantasm>Though, it is a lot for work for code that wasn't made to be multicore to start with.
05:48<@Bjarni>the problem was that the drawing code (and some other stuff) is hardcoded for one thread so semaphors are needed to be set each time a vehicle sprite is read and so on
05:48<@Bjarni>and it would take forever to fix such issues
05:48<Phantasm>But enough redesigning it could prolly be done to about 90% speed increase in average case for additional cores (even to above dual).
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05:49<Phantasm>The problem is, people have been told threads are bad and not to use them... And now that multicore CPUs are common no-one really knows how to code multicore software properly and everything existing is coded such it is very hard to be modified to multicore.
05:50<Gekz>-_-
05:50<Gekz>whats wrong with threading
05:50<Phantasm>Perhaps some new pathfinding or something else could be made multicore with main part of game running on one core.
05:50<@Bjarni>one of the problems is that we have a central money bin and if we want to do two tasks at the same time in two threads and only have money for one then it's a critical race which one will get the money and this means possible desyncs
05:50-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
05:50<@Bjarni>and we have that all over the place
05:51<Rubidium>Phantasm: that has been discussed a gazillion times and deemed not worth the effort as many times.
05:51<yorick>and offcourse multiple pathfindings at the time, they may influence eachother
05:51<@Bjarni><Phantasm> Perhaps some new pathfinding or something else could be made multicore with main part of game running on one core. <-- pathfinding is done in a vehicle loop and caches stuff in the map so we would end up with two threads where one of them would always idle
05:52<Phantasm>Gekz: If done properly, nothing.. But it is slightly more complicated... And if you want to fully take use of multicore it is even more complicated... But now with multicore CPUs, it is very beneficial on CPU demanding applications.. The problem is just that most coders don't know how to do it.
05:52<Gekz>Phantasm: as I've heard.
05:53<@Bjarni>Phantasm: it's not lack of knowledge of how to thread the game but rather the structure is designed in a way where it will desync if one task overtakes another task
05:55<Phantasm>When coding from scratch it is very easy to divide different things to be done on different threads, so you would have say, drawing world, pathfinding and some simulation making 3 threads.. But those threads utilize random amount of CPU, so it won't fully use 3 cores... Properly taking advantake of multicore would require making the most CPU intensive parts multi threaded itself.
05:55<@Bjarni> <Phantasm> [...] The problem is just that most coders don't know how to do it. <-- are you claiming to know how to do it? :)
05:55<hylje>i dont see why he needs to
05:55<Rubidium>drawing takes like 1 or 2 percent of CPU
05:55<Phantasm>Bjarni: I'm not a coder, but I know something in general.
05:56<Rubidium>pathfinding and simulation are heavily influenced by eachother
05:56<Phantasm>Rubidium: Depends on case.. In case of OTTD drawing is small yes.
05:56<Phantasm>Bjarni: Anyway, I do know modifying already made code into fully utilizing multi core CPU might be so much work it is easier to code the whole thing from scratch again.
05:57<Rubidium>one simply CANNOT separate the simulation and pathfinding of road vehicles and trains.
05:57<yorick>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37064
05:57<Rubidium>*unless* OpenTTD is rewritten from scratch
05:57<Rubidium>which will make it a vastly different game
05:57<@Bjarni> <Phantasm> When coding from scratch it is very easy to divide different things to be done on different threads <-- the problem is that OpenTTD is already pretty old and when it was coded in the first place computers with more than one core were something for companies, not gamers
05:57<Rubidium>e.g. not OpenTTD anymore, but *just* another simulation game
05:58<Phantasm>Bjarni: I know that. That is why it is a lot of work, even as much as to coding it from the scratch again.
05:59<hylje>the underlying thing can be arbitrary, its the game mechanics that matter
05:59<Gekz>erm
05:59<Gekz>does it really need more cores
05:59<Gekz>honestly.
05:59<Phantasm>Rubidium: Why would it make another simulation game? You can replicate same thing with different multi threaded code.
05:59<Phantasm>Gekz: Depends...
05:59<Rubidium>no, you can't reproduce the current behaviour when making it multithreaded
06:00<Phantasm>Rubidium: Yes you can.
06:00<Rubidium>*only* with a lot of locking
06:00<Rubidium>which makes it slower
06:00<Phantasm>Without any problems whatsoever. And with almost full CPU effectiveness on additional cores.
06:01<Rubidium>as you need to do locking on each map access
06:01<Phantasm>It is hard to code, but it can be done.
06:01<Phantasm>Some multi threaded things are very complicated to allow maximun effectiveness.
06:01<Rubidium>I'd so, go ahead and show us
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06:01<Rubidium>if you are so sure you can make it better, you better prove it
06:02<Gekz>lol
06:02<Rubidium>and slowing down single core is NOT an option
06:02<Phantasm>With fancy pathfinding, bigger maps and multiplayer games, it is very CPU intensive and as the single core speed tends to be quite fixed for new CPUs and only more cores coming, it might be that in the future, say in 10 years, the single core speed is still about same...
06:02<Phantasm>Rubidium: It can be done, but I'm not the one to code it.
06:02<Rubidium>well, neither are we
06:03<Phantasm>All I did was ask if it was planned and got reply. That is all fine with the question.. After that it just came to chatting around.
06:03<Phantasm>I'm not trying to overtalk you into rewritting the game from scratch.
06:03<@Bjarni>good
06:03<@Bjarni>because we aren't going to do that
06:03<Gekz>you're all always angry
06:03<@Bjarni>no I'm not
06:04<Phantasm>Angry Bjarni. ;P
06:04<Gekz>Bjarni: yes, you are
06:04<Gekz>lol
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06:31<Eddi|zuHause2>"but i feel fine" :p
06:33<@Bjarni><-- Gekz has quit (Quit: I'm done with IRC. Bye.) <-- he will be back
06:35<Roujin>I've made a patch option now to limit TL consist size. standard 4, max 16 and for every last man's wishes, 0 means no limit :P
06:35<@Bjarni>so you can limit it to 1?
06:35<Roujin>yes
06:35<@Bjarni>sounds like real life
06:36<Roujin>?
06:36<@Bjarni>I was once at a place with two crossings next to each other
06:36<@Bjarni>it had room for like max 3 cars in between
06:36<@Bjarni>and they acted like they didn't talk together and had gone out of sync
06:37<@Bjarni>I don't think it was on purpose though
06:37<Roujin>oh, it doesn't mean you can place two TL's next to each other if the setting is on "1"
06:37<@Bjarni>I guess they had gone to some independent mode because the link broke
06:37<Roujin>it will then complain that placing a TL here will make the traffic light consist too big.
06:37<@Bjarni>fair enough
06:38<Roujin>also if you e.g. try to connect two existing TL consists of size 3, if the setting is "4" :>
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06:38<@Bjarni>you can connect existing consists... nice
06:39<Roujin>now i try to find a patch setting string short enough to fit a "Warning: high setting slows game" after it, like with station spread...
06:39<Roujin>seems i have to rename the 0-special case from "no limit" to "off" :-/
06:40<yorick>the station spread warning is not true
06:40<Roujin>well it will break in other languages than english anyways :D
06:41<yorick>but how's the patch setting called?
06:41<Roujin>well for TL consists it _is_ true :P i've tried 16x16 tiles, and fast forward does not fast forward anymore ^^
06:42<yorick>yes, its true, but only if you go building 64x64 stations with holes in it where industries fit
06:42<Roujin>{LTBLUE}Maximum TL consist size: {ORANGE}{STRING1} {RED}Warning: High setting slows game
06:42<yorick>get some trains loading, et voila!
06:42<yorick>TL?
06:42<yorick>what does the patch do?
06:42<Roujin>traffic lights ;)
06:43<yorick>oh, it makes RV's even more useless than they are now
06:43<Roujin>well in the other options, they aren't abbreviated so I guess I can abbreviate it here to make it fit and people will still understand it from context
06:43<Roujin>yes, that's why there's an "off" option ;)
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07:01<yorick>In Unix-like operating systems, true is a command whose only function is to always return the value 0, which is regarded by the shell as the logical value true. <-- __wierd__ :O
07:01*yorick got confused
07:03<shodan>who would have guessed it? :D
07:04*yorick always thought 0 is false
07:07<Pug>0 is also Return
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07:27<Alberth>yorick: value 0 in shells is more 'lack of error code', ie 'succes'
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08:53<Alberth>What is the 'transparent station signs' option supposed to do, compared to the station sign buttons in the 'transparency options window'?
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08:55<Alberth>Hmm, having only the names displayed (with a transparent background) is reset each time with the 'x' key.
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11:14<henkie>hmm, is there a way to make the beer brewery brew faster?
11:14<henkie>or take away his grain?
11:17<Eddi|zuHause2>go in it and threaten to beat the workers with a stick
11:17<Eddi|zuHause2>oh wait... this is not the guild :p
11:18<henkie>hehe, i tried, couldnt find the entrance
11:19-!-Chicago_Rail_Authority [~somewhere@c-68-40-40-232.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:19<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.theguild2.com/
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11:25<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Has anyone tried to compile the quasi-updated YAPP patch posted by Anunnaki? Can't seem to get it to work with BuildOTTD...
11:40<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd take this for a "no"
11:41<Chicago_Rail_Authority>heh
11:41<Chicago_Rail_Authority>guess so
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12:01<Digitalfox>ping Belugas :)
12:01<Eddi|zuHause2>pong Sacro :p
12:03<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, Belugas said "good weekend", i kinda doubt he'll show up
12:04<Digitalfox>Oh i missed that :p
12:05<Digitalfox>Well I'll wait until monday.. :)
12:05<Digitalfox>Oh boy 12 GB of 250GB of Stargate downloaded :p
12:06<Digitalfox>My ISP thgis month will go nuts with me =0
12:07<yorick>just stream it
12:07<yorick>I'm streaming arc of truth now :-)
12:08<Digitalfox>stream it? I'm downloading the DVD's not DVD rips ;)
12:09*DaleStan wishes he still had that ~3 TB/mo throughput limit.
12:10<Digitalfox>DaleStan 3TB?? Wow nice :)
12:10<yorick>data limits :O
12:11<DaleStan>Because that's how much data can be moved in a mont at 10 Mbps.
12:11<DaleStan>month*
12:11<DaleStan>I never actually got anywhere near that "limit".
12:11<DaleStan>But it's fun to brag about.
12:12<Digitalfox>I really didn't want to download 250GB of Stargate.. But the fisrt seasons DVD rips suck in quality.. So... Series with Lot's CGI deserve a good rip quality :)
12:37<Eddi|zuHause2>how about... buying the DVDs then?
12:38<yorick>they're expensive, and I know no place where I can
12:41-!-Pug [~Blabla@iamgod.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
12:42<Pug>could someone help me out?
12:42<Pug>how to set mod lines on player join
12:44<yorick>scripts directory should hold some clues
12:44<Pug>no, not realy
12:45<yorick>it contains something, no?
12:45<yorick>on_client_join.scr.something?
12:46<Pug>in the cfg?
12:46<yorick>no
12:46<Pug>so, wheres the scripts dir then
12:46<yorick>go to your openttd directory, and go to the "scripts" directory
12:46<Pug>there aint such dir
12:47<yorick>what version are you using?
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12:47<Pug>data / gm / lang / scenario / save @ OpenTTD 0.6.0
12:47<Pug>( Windows )
12:47<yorick>who packed the installer?
12:48<Pug>its the client that can be used as dedicated server
12:48<yorick>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Scripts
12:48<Pug>when you open openttd in console
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12:48<yorick>every client can
12:48<insulfrog>hi
12:48<Pug>just saying :)
12:48<Pug>hm, but odd i dont have the scripts folder
12:49<Pug>ill google why
12:49<Pug>do i need to download server package? if yes, where to find it
12:49<yorick>no, you don't
12:49<Pug>ive searched trough the sourceforce web already
12:49<yorick>what do you need?
12:49<Pug>well, it would be nice to start with the scripts folder
12:50<Pug>on what package does it give you that
12:50<yorick>scripts should be included on home-made builds
12:50<yorick>but
12:50<yorick>just make your own directory
12:50<Pug>true
12:50<yorick>named "scripts"
12:50<Pug>and then google the file?
12:50<yorick>I'll search the contents
12:50<Pug>alright, thanks in advantage
12:51<insulfrog>how is everyone? :)
12:51<Pug>fine, and you?
12:51<insulfrog>cool
12:51<Pug>good :)
12:52<insulfrog>I have been reading about this new 'PBS' on the forums, it sounds good.
12:52<Pug>PBS stands for?
12:53<Pug>i think its PunkBuster?
12:53<insulfrog>Path Based Signalling
12:53<Pug>correct me if im wrong :)
12:53<Pug>rofl
12:53<Pug>xD
12:53<yorick>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Running_Startup_Scripts
12:53<Pug>thanks yorick, ill take a look
12:54<Pug>ah, i get it
12:54<Pug>so if i want onjoin msg i make something like join.txt and there i put the mod1 mod2 etc.
12:54<Pug>so it will read from there
12:54<yorick>say "motd1"
12:54<yorick>say "motd2"
12:54<yorick>using console commands
12:55<Pug>ofcourse, thanks :D
12:55<insulfrog>yorick, you have hered of 'Path Based Signalling' (PBS) havn't you :)
12:55<yorick>yes, I have
12:55<insulfrog>I have been reading about it on the forums
12:55<insulfrog>but I am not sure what is the latest 'build' is?
12:56<yorick>@openttd youngest
12:56<@DorpsGek>yorick: latest: r12935
12:56<insulfrog>cheers :)
12:56<yorick>should do it
12:56<yorick>if you're willing to update it
12:57<insulfrog>I shal make a seperate parent directory for it
12:58*insulfrog goes and digs around for PBS Version r12935
12:59<yorick>good luck
12:59<yorick>build it yourself
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13:02<mabako>Hi. could someone point me in the direction how GUI windows are closed in the rail-menu when you either click that item a second time (just goes away) or another one (could open a new window)?
13:03<yorick>I guess you should start looking at RailWndProc or something
13:03<yorick>rail_gui.cpp?
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13:15*insulfrog is thinking, about what dunno :p
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13:20<insulfrog>I have got a C++ editor (dev C++) so I should have have no trouble compiling
13:21<mabako>i think i knew what was missing, an according entry in 'WE_ABORT_PLACE_OBJ'
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13:27<insulfrog>also I have heared rumors that you can get a version of transport tycoon for the Sony Playstation Portable
13:28<mabako>yeah
13:28<mabako>but i think the last released version is 0.5.x
13:28<yorick>0.6.x
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13:29<mabako>well, at least i havent found 0.6.x versions of the psp port :x
13:29<mabako>I've only some 0.5 version on my psp
13:30<mabako>http://openttd.pc-workshop.da.ru/
13:31<insulfrog>I did read on how to install it, (rumages for link)... ah, here it is http://openttd.pc-workshop.da.ru/faq.php .
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13:35<insulfrog>I have followed the installation instructions to the letter but everytime i try to run it on my PSP, my PSP finds it corrupt but I dunno why
13:37<insulfrog>(unless i have to download it straight from the site to my PSP directly)
13:37-!-SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
13:42<Sacro>:o insulfrog
13:42<insulfrog>what?
13:42<Sacro>simsig?
13:42<insulfrog>yes
13:42<Sacro>#simsig too :p
13:42<insulfrog>that is me
13:42<Sacro> guessed
13:43<insulfrog>i did not know u liked OTTD too Sacro?
13:43<Sacro>love it
13:44<insulfrog>Sacro, I am on OTTD's coop server
13:45<insulfrog>care to join?, its on OTTD version r12932 and u need the gfx from the openttdcoop wiki :)
13:45<ln>insulfrog: english only
13:46<insulfrog>yes, im english
13:46<insulfrog>(other languages are a bit complicated 4 me atm :p
13:47<insulfrog>the server is english
13:48<+glx>insulfrog: he meant "its->it's" and "u->you" :)
13:49<Sacro>just busy at the moment
13:52<insulfrog>ok m8 :)
13:52<Sacro>btw, no text speak
14:00<insulfrog>ah, sorry :D
14:08<insulfrog>anyway, what I was saying was that I'm trying to get openttd-0.5.0-PSP onto my PSP, however everytime I install that build onto my PSP like it says on http://openttd.pc-workshop.da.ru/faq.php , but it always gets corrupt, what am I doing wrong?
14:12<SmatZ>insulfrog: you get PSP support from PSP port developers
14:14*insulfrog starts to dig around the net
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14:30<insulfrog>heh, trust me not to read the readme properly :p
14:32<SmatZ>!logs
14:32<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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14:43<Andel>hello guys'n'dolls
14:44<Andel>does anyone happen to know where I could get YAPP from please?
14:44<Andel>or does it not apply to openttd?
14:46<Sacro>Andel: dev forum
14:46<Digitalfox>Andel http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36107&start=0
14:49<Andel>thanks
14:49<Andel>ahhh ok - i'm required to compile it myself?
14:52<Digitalfox>andel yes and no.. You can but there is http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=89779
14:52<Digitalfox>and already compiled win32 build
14:53<Digitalfox>and = it's
15:02<Andel>thanks
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16:07<insulfrog>(sigh)
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16:08<insulfrog>I think my PSP's firmware is too high to play openttd
16:09<hylje>ha ha
16:09<insulfrog>(I think it is over 3.7)
16:09<lthighlighter>!password
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16:11<insulfrog>hmm...
16:27<insulfrog>oh well
16:27<Wolf01>insulfrog, try with the eloader
16:28<insulfrog>does that work with 3.XX firmware?
16:29<Wolf01>yes I use it for OpenTyrian
16:30<Wolf01>and for the PDF reader, because it doesn't work with 3.90
16:32-!-Victoria [~Victoria@c-24-14-133-47.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:35<Sacro>Hey again Victoria
16:37<Wolf01>wow, how much confidence... sacro -> female name -> sex
16:38<hylje>ssh, don't spoil the moment ;-)
16:38-!-mikl [~mikl@adsl.peytz.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:40<Wolf01>(he doesn't know in fact that there are no girls on internet, only guys claiming to be guys and guys claiming to be girls, as Bjarni said)
16:40<+glx>no it's the rules
16:41<Victoria>Heya :)
16:41<Victoria>Wolf, Sacro helped me a bit yesterday.
16:41<hylje>there's no guys on the internet. you've got it wrong.
16:44<@Bjarni><Victoria> Wolf, Sacro helped me a bit yesterday. <-- now this sounds scary
16:44<@Bjarni>really scary
16:45*Bjarni fears for Victoria's safety
16:45<@Bjarni>not to mention mental health
16:46<Victoria>Hah!
16:46<Victoria>Thanks for your concern. ;)
16:48<Sacro>STOP TELLING LIES ABOUT ME BJARNI D:
16:49<@Bjarni>I haven't told anything about you
16:49<@Bjarni>I just tell about my concerns
16:50<Sacro>pfft
16:54<hylje>Bjarni: you imply
16:55<@Bjarni>so?
16:55<hylje>one does not need to say it aloud to make people understand
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16:57<Sacro>Victoria: you played on a server then?
16:58<Victoria>Not yet. We've been amuing ourselves by playing the same game on two computers to see what we do differently
16:59<Sacro>ah nice
16:59<insulfrog>hmm.. The eloader does not seem to work eiter (unless I have the wrong version)
17:00<Wolf01>mah, I have 3.90-m33 and it works for me
17:01-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-64-31.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
17:01<Wolf01>m33-3
17:07-!-nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.106.170] has joined #openttd
17:08<nicfer>I have an idea for a industry set
17:08-!-lol [~mabako@V1099.v.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
17:08<nicfer>After 2020 all oil industries shut down and they are replaced by biofuel plantations
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17:09<nicfer>kinda polemic but would be nice :?
17:09<nicfer>:?
17:09<nicfer>:)
17:11<nicfer>also I would increase the rate for random industry placement, because actually you got more closedowns than new industries, generating ç÷
17:11<Victoria>No kidding.. that industry closure rate is painful
17:12<nicfer>generating 'industry crisis'
17:12<Wolf01>yes, nice, but why not make an industry set for a larger year range? like 1500-2500, you start with iron, stone, wood and you'll finish with carbon, bio-fuels, glass, silicon, plastic, computers etc
17:13<nicfer>yeah, or maybe a all industries in temperate newgrf
17:13<nicfer>like OCS
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17:17<insulfrog>Oh well, cheers for trying, cya :)
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17:19<tp>Does it matter how much of a station's coverage area covers an industry? E.g. a forest: will it produce more if the station is closer?
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17:20<+glx>production won't change
17:21<tp>So it doesn't matter, so long as at least 1 tile of the industry is covered?
17:21<JelloX>it wont matter
17:22<Sacro>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8jmgowXlyw <- We built this pacer (from bus parts)
17:23<tp>I see, thanks.
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17:28<JelloX>damn i love the road bus stops
17:30<JelloX>can the game go past 2050 ?
17:30<SmatZ>yes
17:30<JelloX>sweet
17:31<JelloX>its taking me FOREVER to generate money on my own land
17:31<JelloX>first map i made
17:31<JelloX>SmatZ, you know any ways to get money fast?
17:31<SmatZ>JelloX: build aircraft line from one map corner to another
17:31<JelloX>im building lots of trains to transport coal as thats the best money making thing i know
17:31<JelloX>oh
17:31<JelloX>ok
17:32<JelloX>im in year 1996...i started at 1994 lol
17:32<SmatZ>and set patch settings - vehicles - plane speed = 1/1
17:32<JelloX>ok
17:32<JelloX>whats that do?
17:33<SmatZ>it makes planes to go really 856 km/h, not 215
17:33<JelloX>sweet
17:33<SmatZ>and you will be paid better for faster service
17:33<JelloX>nice
17:33<JelloX>ty
17:33<SmatZ>no problem :)
17:38<JelloX>wow that is fast compared to 1/4
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17:47<Wolf01>'night
17:47-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host193-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:47<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it's 4 times faster ;)
17:48<JelloX>yea
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17:55<JelloX>Aircraft income: $301,861
17:55<JelloX>ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty SmatZ
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18:00<Eddi|zuHause2>JelloX: in the middle future, that'll be "fixed" ;)
18:00<JelloX>why
18:00<JelloX>... >:(
18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>it's called "balance"
18:01<JelloX>>_>
18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't mean there won't be an "easy" setting ;)
18:02<JelloX>yeah
18:02<echinos>cjk: you around?
18:02<JelloX>Eddi|zuHause2, do you think i should have 2 trains..1 for mail and 1 for passengers
18:03<JelloX>im gunna make a train thingy that goes all around the map
18:03<JelloX>just for fun
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i don't really care for mail usually...
18:03<JelloX>oh
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i just attach a mail wagon on my passenger trains for the cuteness :)
18:04<JelloX>lol
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18:07<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2021.%20Sep%201956.png
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18:09<JelloX>1m $$$
18:09<JelloX>from 1 airplane
18:09<JelloX>WOW :>
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't usually use planes
18:11<+glx>it's too easy to make money with planes
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18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>i love double tracks too much ;)
18:11<JelloX>i like trains more then planes
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18:33<Sacro>hmm, infogrames planning to buy remaining atari
18:33<Sacro>so who owns ttd now D:
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18:37<Chrill>orudge
18:37<Chrill>of course
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18:38<@peter1138>i thought infogrames and atari were already mingled...
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18:53<echinos>I started a scenario game, and for the second time, I don't have cargo vehicles available for the industries on the map
18:54<echinos>I have nothing that can haul coal :/
18:54<Sacro>what set?
18:54<echinos>I have the Canadian trains set on
18:54<+glx>maybe refit iron ore to coal
18:56<JelloX>i think i had that prob yesterday
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18:57<echinos>And there are no steam engines, the game just started :/
18:57<echinos>very odd
18:58<echinos>screencap on the way...
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18:59<echinos>http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nocargocl9.jpg
18:59<echinos>that's my new vehicles list
18:59<echinos>in 1951 :/
19:00<echinos>I saved and loaded the game, now I have a coal car available
19:01<@peter1138>type 'resetengines' in the console
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19:05<echinos>peter1138: You da MAN! many thanks
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19:57<|Naetur|>anyone alive?
20:05<@Bjarni>no
20:06<|Naetur|>haha lol
20:07<Sacro>Bjarni is dead
20:07<Sacro>hence his smell
20:09<@Bjarni>Sacro is dead too
20:09<@Bjarni>I killed him countless times
20:18<|Naetur|>Bjarni, u wanna play open TTD?
20:20<@Bjarni>not now
20:20<@Bjarni>I should be sleeping
20:20<|Naetur|>ok
20:20<@Bjarni>yet I'm fixing bugs
20:21<|Naetur|>for the game?
20:21-!-Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-36-23.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:21<@Bjarni>yeah
20:21<|Naetur|>wow
20:21<|Naetur|>u r a creator
20:21<@Bjarni>I just managed to solve the crash I introduced in autoreplace
20:22<|Naetur|>oh ok
20:23<@Bjarni><|Naetur|> u r a creator <-- yeah
20:23<@Bjarni>I created everything
20:23<@Bjarni>even you
20:24<|Naetur|>haha
20:24-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-64-31.bredband.comhem.se] has quit []
20:28<SmatZ>he really did
20:28<|Naetur|>yeah he's god
20:28<SmatZ>yeah
20:28<Sacro>no
20:28<Sacro>god could never be dutch
20:29-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host217-42-221-117.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
20:30<@Bjarni><Sacro> god could never be dutch <-- maybe that's why I'm not Dutch
20:30<Sacro>pff
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20:34-!-Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [now see what godly powers can do]
20:34<@Bjarni>:)
20:34<@Bjarni>ok time for bed
20:34<@Bjarni>goodnight
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20:37<Sacro>D:
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21:25<JelloX>how can i destroy a opponents train on purpose to get him to stop taking my coal
21:25<JelloX>?
21:26<JelloX>should i get another train to stand right in the middle of his track
21:26<JelloX>= ka boom
21:28<+glx>it's not your coal
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21:29<JelloX>its totally mine
21:29<+glx>no it's not, you don't own the industry
21:29<+glx>you just transport stuff
21:30<JelloX>no i own the industry i bought it out
21:30<+glx>and if you wan't more, you just need to have a better service than the opponents
21:30<JelloX>yea i know
21:30<JelloX>lol
21:30<+glx>even if you founded the industry you don't own it
21:30<JelloX>lame ._.
21:33<JelloX>since i cant put a train on there
21:33<JelloX>i put a car
21:33<JelloX>on his track
21:33<JelloX>lets c wat happens
21:34<JelloX>HERE IT COMES
21:35<JelloX>WTF
21:35<JelloX>the train just went through it@
21:35<JelloX>dam it
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23:35<JelloX>company value is unrealistic
23:35<JelloX>do they have plans on fixing it ?
23:35<JelloX>i just bought another company for $2, they were $600k in debt but im rich
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---Logclosed Sun May 04 00:00:47 2008