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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-05

---Logopened Mon May 05 00:00:26 2008
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00:37<k-man>do you get paid more for longer hauls?
00:48<echinos>a lot more
00:49<k-man>that seems strange to me
00:49<k-man>i mean
00:49<k-man>its too easy to maniplulate
00:50<k-man>i'm not sure of the solution
00:50<k-man>but somehow it just seems to easy to place your stations at opposite ends of the map to maximise profit
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01:25<echinos>k-man: well, you don't usually start with enough money to do that, depending on map size...
01:25<k-man>but do you see my point?
01:25<echinos>but yeah, money is normally not a problem in openttd
01:26<echinos>the challenge is more about building good train networks
01:26<echinos>and, I guess, see just how much money you can make
01:26<k-man>but why ship things across the map if you can ship it locally
01:27<echinos>I couldn't make money the first few times I played it, 'cause I didn't know about the distance thing
01:27<k-man>maybe if there was more penalty for the time taken
01:27<k-man>ie closer deliveries would be more profitable cos they are faster
01:28<echinos>that would be bad on the other end of the scale though... you could spend a *tiny* amount of money and make a lot
01:28<k-man>hmm good point
01:28<k-man>imagine its more a supply and demand thing
01:28<echinos>forcing you to make long rail lines complicates things pretty fast ;)
01:28<echinos>I think it's just a game mechanics thing, really
01:29<k-man>the price of a comodity should be the same, but cost of delivery is higher for longer distances
01:29<echinos>yeah, but you're not involved in the commodity price, just delivery
01:29<echinos>who knows what the power station is paying the coal mine
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01:32<Noldo>I wonder if the power station is able to add the super high transport costs to the consumer price
01:32<echinos>so that they can't afford cars and have to take public transit ;)
01:33<k-man>well exactly
01:33<k-man>i can see why its done the current way
01:33<k-man>i just wonder if theres a better way
01:35<k-man>the other way would require a lot of supply and demand modeling
01:35<k-man>it would be very complex
01:35<k-man>more like sim city than a transport game
01:37<Noldo>money could be renamed to building points or something like that
01:41<echinos>well, there are a few things I've seen, but they're like certain passengers wanting a certain destination
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02:13<Alberth>good morning
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02:23<Roest>alberth i see lots of your stuff made it into trunk
02:24<Alberth>yeah, very good. Rubidium as usual did also some improvements to my patches.
02:24<Roest>lets see what's broken now :)
02:25<Alberth>nothing, they are all just code changes..... :)
02:25<Roest>window_gui.h:297: error: ‘void (* Window::wndproc)(Window*, WindowEvent*)’ is private
02:26<Alberth>use w->HandleWindowEvent(e) instaed
02:28<Alberth>hmm, Rubidium did more... I need to have a look!
02:28<Roest>well it happened within the last 20 commits, so not too much to check
02:29<Alberth>how do you manage your patches?
02:30<Alberth>(in particular the patch sequences for trunk?)
02:30<Roest>how do you mean that?
02:32<Alberth>I use SVN to update 'my' trunk, then make branches with bzr from that, and create my patches in the branches. However, I am not really happy with this approach
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02:33<Roest>right now i did a fresh checkout and try to apply my 12930 patchpack
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02:36<Alberth>since my patches are usually too big for one patch file, after I created the patch, I make another branch, and copy changes over to the new branch until I have a patch for trunk. Then I commit the new branch with bzr, copy more changes, etc etc until I have a sequence of trunk-ready patches
02:36<JelloX>SO HELP
02:36<JelloX>WRONG CHAN
02:36<JelloX>DAMN IT
02:37<Alberth>ie I use bzr intermediate commit's for handling the incremental changes, and generating the diffs
02:40<Roest>since i do no trunk stuff and most patches arent mine i just keep them close to a current rev, combine them in packs of 3, then merge them all
02:41<Alberth>you update each patch file to trunk, and then merge them together to construct your patch pak?
02:42<Roest>not always
02:42<Roest>but that's the general idea
02:42<Roest>no point in updating everything if there's just 20 revs between
02:43<Alberth>as long as it merges correctly, I guess
02:43<Roest>anyway this is strange
02:43<Alberth>I see we have a Window constructor, I see
02:43<Alberth>what is strange
02:43<Roest>airport_gui.cpp line 101, this compiled just fine
02:44<Roest>the exact same code in the copy_paste_gui.cpp does not
02:45<Roest>maybe you dont have the same airport_gui.cpp line 101, i see this is modified too
02:46<Roest>gonna find out what this changed to, it's used all over the place
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02:48<Roest>oh damn
02:48<Roest>it's not that line
02:48<Roest>i'm not awake yet i guess
02:48<Alberth>no, it seems line 142/143
02:48<Roest>getting up at 6:45 has its drawbacks
02:49<Roest>that line is ok
02:49<Alberth>I was up at 6:00 already (and it is my last day off, I must be doing something wrong..)
02:50<Roest>if (button < CPW_FIRST_CLICKABLE || !(w = FindWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0)) || w->wndproc != CopyPasteWndProc) {DeleteWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0);
02:51<Alberth>niet nog een hacky compare tegen een adres van een window event handler!!
02:52<Roest>oh damn, if he falls back to his native language he's angry
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02:52<Alberth>well, it is your patch ;)
02:52<Roest>nah copypaste is frostregens
02:52<Alberth>the same hack was also in build toolbar windows
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02:53<Roest>he probably does it how i do it, look how it's done in other windows and copy the code
02:53<Alberth>we had 3 WC_BUILD_STATION windows (for ships, planes, and trains)
02:54<Alberth>train build compared against its winproc to check it is the right one.
02:54<Alberth>Rubidium fixed that by using a different window_number for each build station window (at least that is what the log said)
02:56<Alberth>- Window *w = FindWindowById(WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR, 0);
02:57<Roest>looking at the patch right now
02:58<Alberth>how many WC_COPY_PASTE windows exist?
02:59<Roest>just one, looks pretty clear now, just have to add the type in openttd.h and copy the code from the patch
03:00<Alberth>you can simply remove the w->wndproc check then (it should never fail)
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03:02<Roest>or that
03:05<Roest>yea works
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03:13<Benny22Canberra>can anyone send me this damn file? haha
03:15<cjk>google it.
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03:16<cjk>much faster than asking anyone here to squeeze it through their modem line
03:17<Alberth>I would have done that first, before asking
03:17*cjk pats Alberth
03:17<cjk>not everyone is as smart :)
03:18<Alberth>well, apparently, he considers asking in a channel faster than looking for it.
03:18<Roest>cjk this is how it looks correctly
03:19<Alberth>so maybe I am just doing things the wrong way here :P
03:19<cjk>Roest: so you got it working now?
03:19<Roest>yea, not sure if it's a good permanent solution
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03:19<cjk>well, what is good in your opinion?
03:20<Roest>i'm just using alpha test now instead of alpha blending
03:20<Roest>this is ok if the alpha is just binary
03:21<cjk>well now try applying a 50% alpha to the entire image and see if it dims correctly
03:22<cjk>also, or perhaps instead, you might want to wrap the 3d window into its own program
03:22<cjk>to rule out a wx fault
03:22<Roest>i don't want it to dim, i needed to removed the boxes from around the brain area
03:22<cjk>if it's just that, you should have looked at asteroids3D, which does just the same
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03:58<Roest>anyone with forum mod rights here?
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04:01<Roest>is there a trainset that has all freight types in mag levs?
04:09*Roest kills a cricket
04:09<@peter1138>origengs.grf ;)
04:10<Roest>peter can you do me a favor please?
04:10<Roest>delete the 2nd post in this thread
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04:16<planetmaker>Hey, Roest, what's wrong with my post??
04:17<Roest>uh why yours?
04:17<planetmaker>delete the 2nd post in this thread
04:18<planetmaker>nvm. Mixed up browser tabs :P
04:19<planetmaker>sorry :) I guess it's good my tea just is ready :P
04:19*Alberth puts book about elementary counting back on the shelf
04:19<Roest>apparently you need something stronger
04:19<planetmaker>Tea lasts longer than coffee :)
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04:20<planetmaker>lol ^^
04:20<Roest>gender change 4tw
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04:27<cjk>DND land purchase wtf :p
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04:50<cjk>hm, what directory in ~/.openttd do I need to put new GRFs in?
04:50<SpComb>presumeably data
04:51<Ammler>maybe you need to create it
04:51<cjk>hm I did
04:51<cjk>it tries ~/.openttd/data, but the newgrf dialog does not list any of the GRFs I added
04:52<Ammler>"rescan" the grfs
04:52<Ammler>or which Version of ottd do you use?
04:52<cjk>Ah, I need to add it ;-)
04:52<Ammler>ok :-)
04:53<cjk>meh openttd just crashed after adding all ECS grfs
04:53<Ammler>cjk: did you try it on a running game?
04:54<Ammler>or do you have an error msg?
04:54<cjk>yes it works after a restart
04:54<cjk>afte rhitting "apply" on the newgrf dialog the thing just segfaulted
04:54<cjk>since it works after a restart i'm all happy already :p
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04:54<Ammler>cjk: just have the town vector as first
04:55<cjk>nice nice.
04:56<cjk>hm the sand pit just loses sand even if I am not transporting! :p
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04:56<Roest>it has a hole deep down inside
05:01<cjk>so do you happen to know what hopper to use for sand?
05:02<cjk>i do have the town vector
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05:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i guess this huge warning saying "OTTD may crash if you do this" does have its purpose :p
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05:04<cjk>what, where
05:04<Eddi|zuHause2>if you change newgrfs within a running game
05:05<cjk>i was not in a game, unless the title screen is a game
05:05<Eddi|zuHause2>that should work...
05:05<Eddi|zuHause2>in that case, try to reproduce it ;)
05:05<Alberth>I found a small graphics glitch with the North Americal Renewal Trainset, see The passenger cars and the engine at the end stick out at the left of the window. Where should this be reported?
05:06*Roest waits for the global warming to arrive
05:06<SmatZ>Alberth: to the newgrf author I would say
05:06<SmatZ>if it works in TTDP
05:06<SmatZ>the same wya
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05:07<Alberth>I don't know whether it works in TTDP, no Win* machine in the building
05:07<Eddi|zuHause2>wine ttdpatchw.exe -y
05:08<Roest>bash: wine: command not found :P
05:09<Alberth>Eddi: Does that work without a Win* OS? (I assume not)
05:10<Ammler>It does: quick howto:
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05:15<SpComb>patchman used to develop TTDPatch on OS X
05:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Alberth: wine works without having windows
05:17<Alberth>Eddi: So Ammler told me (thanks!). Getting it installed now.
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05:30<Frostregen>hmm, i can deliver (and get paid for) the same cargo multiple times
05:31<Frostregen>by interrupting the unloading process, after beeing paid
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05:33<SmatZ>Frostregen: in 0.6 ?
05:33<SmatZ>I don't think this was even possible in 0.5
05:33<SpComb>Frostregen: do you get the same amount of cash each time?
05:34<Frostregen>slightly less, as some goods get lost
05:35<Frostregen>i tested it with 12951
05:35<Frostregen>but should work with 0.6 too
05:35<SpComb>and I guess it works in multiplayer as well, then?
05:36<Frostregen>there should be no difference
05:36<SmatZ>Frostregen: what do you mean by 'interrupting the unloading proces'? sending train to depot?
05:36<Frostregen>in my first setup i needed to unload/load the cargo at another station
05:37<Frostregen>before getting money for it again
05:38<Frostregen>maybe the payment should be after unloading all cargo?
05:39<Eddi|zuHause2>each cargo package should remember if it has been paid for
05:39<@peter1138>how about not letting the vehicle move when it's unloading
05:40<SmatZ>Frostregen: I really can't reproduce it
05:40<Maedhros>hmm. i thought we'd fixed that at one point (a long time ago)
05:40<Frostregen>i'm creating a savegame...
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05:45<Alberth>Hmm, should anything happen when starting ttdpatch, other than the CPU load jump to 1? :P
05:45<Alberth>Also tried a Windows version, but cannot get it installed
05:46<Alberth>Maybe it doesn't like my AMD-64 CPU :)
05:47<Alberth>(although running Linux in 32bit mode)
05:49<Maedhros>it's worked fine with my amd64 for years ;)
05:50<blathijs>Alberth: Apart from the fact that this is #openttd, and not #ttdpatch, I assume ttdpatch should actually do something when started :-)
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05:52<Alberth>blathijs: I expected that too. I'll just report the glitch mentioning that I only tested it with OpenTTD. Tnx all.
05:53<blathijs>Alberth: Uh, I was suggesting you are mixing up projects. Are you having problems with OpenTTD, or with TTDPatch?
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05:55<Alberth>blathijs: I was trying to test a graphics glitch ( I discovered yesterday in OpenTTD
05:56<SmatZ>Frostregen: you take cargo
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05:56<blathijs>Alberth: So you just mistyped, and nothing is TTDPatch related?
05:56<blathijs>Or you were trying to compare with TTDPatch?
05:57<Frostregen>open up train window, open train orders window, start train, click 2 times on "send to depot" right after payment, skip to next order, wait for unload/load, repeat
05:58<Alberth>blathijs: SmatZ suggested to test it in TTDPatch, to check that OpenTTD code is correct (ie it is a NewGRF problem and not a C++ problem)
05:58<Frostregen>(actually wait till train leaves, before second click on send to depot)
05:58<blathijs>Alberth: Ah, I see
05:59<SmatZ>Frostregen: interesting
05:59<blathijs>Hmm, I should have read back a few lines before asking stupid questions :-)
05:59<@peter1138>lots of grfs do that. it is a grf 'problem'
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06:00<blathijs>What exactly is the glitch? I can't seem to find it in the screenshot
06:00<Eddi|zuHause2>the wagons stick out of the window on the left
06:00<@peter1138>the latest version of nars does not do that
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06:01<blathijs>ah, I see
06:02<Alberth>ok, I'll wait for ottdc grfpack 7.1
06:02<@peter1138>latest version being the prerelease of version 3, heh
06:03<Maedhros>Frostregen: basically, this is just the problem that vehicles don't know not to pick up cargo that they just unloaded
06:03<Frostregen>+it unsets some "this cargo is already paid" marker
06:03<Frostregen>if i try to get directly paid for the cargo at another station, it doesnt work
06:03<Maedhros>that marker is stored by the train, not the cargo
06:04<Maedhros>so when you unload the cargo, the marker gets unset
06:04<Frostregen>ah, ok
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06:05<Frostregen>it is hard to exploit anyway
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06:10<SmatZ>I think you should definitely report it
06:11<SmatZ>but in a way that people won't start exploiting it :)
06:11<SmatZ>well, I don't know
06:11<SmatZ>but it should be fixed
06:12<Ammler>Alberth: not sure, if 7.1 will have new version of NARS
06:12<Frostregen>i think peter1138 approach did sound good. just don't move trains until fully unloaded
06:12<Alberth>Frostgen: now that you mention this problem, I remember weird cargo problems with ECS vector industries where you were just below the limit of what the industry accepted. Unfortunately, cannot really recall the details :(
06:13<SmatZ>Frostregen: I think being paid after cargo unload is a better idea
06:13<SmatZ>but it changes game behaviour...
06:13<Frostregen>SmatZ: this introduces a possible leak of money
06:14<Alberth>Ammler: Ah well, I'll take that chance. Just noticed it by accident
06:14<SmatZ>Frostregen: you can store somewhere how much you should be paid
06:14<Frostregen>hm, right
06:15<SmatZ>or you could store the information that the packet has been unload in the cargo packet
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06:15<Alberth>Would labeling the cargo as originating from the dest station help?
06:15<SmatZ>Alberth: no
06:15<SmatZ>you could unload it then at different station again
06:15<Maedhros>cp->paid_for = false;
06:15<Maedhros>/* When cargo is moved into another vehicle you have *always* paid for it */
06:16<Maedhros>that's probably what causes it (apparently whether the cargo is paid for *is* stored with the cargo now)
06:16<Alberth>What about re-labeling from 'nowhere' (ie invalid station)?
06:16<SmatZ>great :)
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06:17<Frostregen>so the question is, what other things depends on this line?
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06:33<Roest>lol, friend of mine has to fix a software project that was outsourced to india and failed
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06:44<k-man_>is it possible to have a local game with no competitors?
06:45<Roest>why shouldnt it
06:45<ln>Roest: '
06:45<Roest>takes too much time to type it
06:45<Roest>but i make you an offer, here: '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
06:46<Roest>that should be enough for today and tomorrow
06:46<Roest>after that you get more
06:46<ln>Roest: your precious time should not be wasted, but all the hundreds of readers' time should?
06:46<Eddi|zuHause2>not if i throw in anti-apostrophs: ,,,,,,, :p
06:47<cjk>or reverse ones `````````
06:48<@peter1138>pressing ' is slow? :o
06:48<Maedhros>"hundreds of [...] time" ? :-P
06:48<Alberth>In: What precious readers' time were you referring to? :P
06:48<@peter1138>l is not I
06:48<ln>lndeed not
06:49<Eddi|zuHause2>I am not l either
06:51<Alberth>Ah, it's a different letter!
06:54<st6>is the drive thru bus stop slower than the normal?
06:54<Roest>it's faster
06:56<Alberth>st6: Arriving and leaving buses don't get in each others' way
06:57<cjk>Alberth: get a better font
07:02<Eddi|zuHause2>problem with drive through is that you need a separate location for turning the busses
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07:04<cjk>kinda easy
07:04<Alberth>cjk: Well, it's not better, but hopefully less confusing
07:05<Eddi|zuHause2>well, road loops look kinda ugly... it'd look nicer if i could put a (one way) drive through stop on a curve
07:05<cjk>curve o_O
07:06<cjk>how would that look like?
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>is that not an english word?
07:07<Roest>don't know, our grammar and spelling cop didn't shout
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, say i have a road crossing
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>i could put a "curved stop" next to it
07:09<Eddi|zuHause2>where \ is the stop, and only to be used by busses
07:09<Eddi|zuHause2>then the busses could go into the stop, and use the crossing to go back the way they came from
07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>wait... we ARE a terrorism cell, right?
07:13<cjk>the fact is they use it because it's more reliable (which is just what you want as a terrorist, no?)
07:14<cjk>if every Qaeda bomb ran with Windows CE, uhm, expect 80% in failures
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>I kill you!
07:15<cjk>bombiges Wetter heute ...
07:15<Eddi|zuHause2>does that even have a proper translation?
07:15<trd>wtb new forum buff: Flame resistance. Start out at 10% and work slowly towards 90%.
07:16<trd>That was supposed to go to the Anarchy-Online channel.
07:16<Eddi|zuHause2>we totally need that in openttd :p
07:16<Roest>i was going to say the ottd forums are tame why would you need that here
07:17<Roest>AO, there are still people playing that?
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07:18<trd>And I bet a lot of people will be returning to it when the new GFX engine is launched this fall :)
07:19<Roest>not me, that release put funcom on my (very short) list of publishers i never buy a game from again
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07:19<trd>EA is on my list.. and it's about it. I'm happy I wasn't around for the launch of AO though.
07:20<Roest>that was by far the worst mmo launch i ever played
07:20<trd>I don't doubt it. I heard it was... havoc.
07:21<cjk>Eddi|zuHause2: perhaps "bombastic"
07:21<trd>they're launching Age of Conan in a few weeks... Will be fun to watch how that goes. I think they've learned though.. that game was pushed back for at least two years.
07:21<Roest>guess that lost them quite some customers
07:21*cjk slaps Roest with a Deppenapostroph
07:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12952 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Indenting and codestyle
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07:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12953 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Feature: Open a new viewport when ctrl-clicking on a 'Location' button, a town/station/industry list, or some news items.
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07:39<Noldo>:) that was fast
07:39<Eddi|zuHause2>that sounds cool
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07:41<cjk>i'd rather have it with the middle mouse button than ctrl+click
07:42<cjk>like firefox
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07:47<@orudge>Woo, my DOS-based dedicated server has been playing for around 8 hours (with a bunch of AI players) quite happily. Very slowly (one day is about 8 seconds), but it works. :P
07:48<Roest>nice, a bunch of noai players or oldai?
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07:49<@orudge>ldnewai (as in, what was the "new ai" that did road vehicles)
07:49<Maedhros>hmm. newspapers seem to ignore the transparent station signs settings
07:50<@orudge>Yes, DOS :)
07:50<cjk>why o why, o dos!
07:50<@orudge>Why not?
07:50<cjk>oh so it's that masochistic feeling :)
07:50<cjk>to get something to run on the weirdest archs
07:50<SmatZ>Maedhros: newspaper ignore all trnasparency and invisibility settings
07:50<Roest>cjk didn't you know, orudge is also the maintainer of the Z80 port
07:51<@orudge>cjk: well, I wrote an OS/2 port. ;) I also ported OpenTTD to DOS back in early 2004, but that port fell into disuse, so I decided to report it. This time, I got networking working, too :D
07:52<cjk>must be a ram sucker
07:54<@orudge>Well, I had a dedicated server running fine (256x256 map) on a virtual machine with 16MB of RAM. When I tried to load a few newgrfs though, it crashed with an out of memory error.
07:54<Maedhros>SmatZ: oh, ok
07:54<cjk>, 60k. NDIS driver, ?k. TCP stack, 80k.
07:54<trd>Wonder if OTTD works on netbsd. Would be fun to boot a playstation into NetBSD just to play OTTD.
07:54<@orudge>so more is better ;)
07:54<cjk>no way that fits into 640k
07:55<Maedhros>i think netbsd support was committed a few days ago, actually
07:55<@orudge>cjk: obviously, OpenTTD uses DPMI on DOS, it doesn't really care about the low memory area
07:55<@orudge>anyway, the TCP/IP stack is built into OpenTTD (it uses WATTCP). So all that's needed is a packet driver in memory.
07:57<@orudge>FreeDOS 1.0 comes with a whole load of packet drivers, and lots of network-enabled applications. It's quite fun. Maybe OpenTTD will be bundled with a future version of FreeDOS, when our graphics and sound are free. ;)
07:59<cjk>given that most people run Windows or some *nux anyway....
08:00*cjk slaps Roest
08:00<@orudge>Well, yes, "most people" run a more modern OS. But if we can give something to those who still choose to use the likes of DOS or OS/2, then why not? I know at least one user who says they'd find a DOS port of OpenTTD useful, so if anything else, that's one user I've made happy. ;)
08:01<@peter1138>cjk: we have no code at all for middle-mouse button handling
08:01<cjk>some 3 year old with grandpa's 386 :)
08:02<@peter1138>OpenTTD under DOS will rock :D
08:02<@peter1138>can we have a VESA video driver? heh
08:02<cjk>SDL can do vesa output
08:02<cjk>or was it svga..
08:02<@peter1138>SDL does svgalib
08:03<@peter1138>well, used to
08:03<cjk>seems to be the same more or less
08:03<@peter1138>i don't know if it is
08:03<@peter1138>svgalib is not a dos thing, after all
08:03<cjk>I am inclined to believe that SVGA is a card-specific operation, while VESA is that general thing provided by the BIOS+card
08:03<@orudge>peter1138: yes, you'll be able to use VESA
08:04<Roest>and sound is speaker output?
08:04<@peter1138>hmm, yes, sound drivers :o
08:04<@peter1138>GUS support!
08:04<ln>VGA ought to be enough for anyone
08:05<@orudge>video support will be: standard VGA, Mode-X, VESA, VBE/2.0,VBE/3.0, VBE/AF
08:05<cjk>ttd in 320x200? ugh..
08:05<ln>cjk: what are you talking about?
08:05<@orudge>sound support: SB 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, Pro, 16, ESS AudioDrive, Ensoniq Sound System, Windows Sound System
08:05<cjk>"VGA" means 320x200x8
08:06<ln>source for this piece information?
08:06<cjk>DOS games.
08:06<@orudge>cjk: indeed it does. I'd probably recommend 640x480 as a minimum. ;)
08:06<cjk>640x480x4bit is also some sort of VGA, right. But a not so colorful one.
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08:07<trd>ln beat me to it
08:07<@orudge>and just for good measure - MIDI: Adlib, OPL2, OPL3, SB midi, MPU-401, DIGMID (software samples), AWE32
08:08<@orudge>My intention is to use the Allegro game library for OpenTTD. Allegro can also be used on a bunch of other platforms, but I think we already have ports to most, if not all, of those.
08:08<Gekz>I want OpenTTD in ASCII glory damn itr
08:08<@orudge>(do we have a QNX port?)
08:08<cjk>Gekz: SDL does aalib.
08:08<Gekz>oh goody
08:09<cjk>ln: it's mostly correct, but it is missing the bit depth, which was very important in the early days.
08:09<Gekz>so we're porting ottd to dos
08:09<SmatZ>orudge: is there any unified interface for sound and video? even when you have a very old VGA card? (without VESA extensions)
08:09<@orudge>porting? it's already been ported, mostly :P
08:09<Gekz>oh dear.
08:09<@orudge>esides, TTD started off on DOS, we may as well port OpenTTD back to TTD's spiritual home :P
08:10<Gekz>KEEP IT AWAY
08:10<@orudge>SmatZ: well, the VESA standards are the closest things to a "unified standard", with VBE/* being newer versions of it
08:10<Gekz>port it to AIX so you can call yourself satanic
08:11<@orudge>as for sound - almost everything is Sound Blaster compatible
08:11<cjk>cga was - in qbasic and LOTS of games (Blues Brothers, Commander Keen) - cga=320x200x2,640x200x2,640x400x2, ega=320x200x4,640x350x4, vga=320x200x8, theother vga =640x480x4,640x400x4, herc=720x576(or so)x2 and svga=640x480x8,800x600x8,...
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08:11<Gekz>svga ftw
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08:13<stillunknown>Doesn't vbe give you access to higher resolutions?
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08:13<stillunknown>eg, non-text modes
08:14<cjk>VBE is VESA :p
08:15<stillunknown>Well, it's a vesa extension iirc.
08:16<@orudge> used to play various Allegro games in resolutions that my CRT didn't really like supporting back in the day - 2048x1536 type things
08:16<cjk>VESA Bios Extensions
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08:17<@peter1138>320x200x8bpp was MCGA/VGA
08:18<cjk>just what I said :p
08:18<@peter1138>(VGA because CGA and EGA couldn't do it, but MCGA was not very common)
08:19<Brianetta>Multiple knifing in Leeds
08:19<cjk>Forking in pidgin.
08:19<Brianetta>I wonder if that would have made a national headline int her US
08:19<Gekz>they're busy bitching about which idiot will win the election
08:19<Gekz>it doesnt matter, you're screwed either way
08:20<Brianetta>They only let US-born Americans become president. I think they should reverse that entirely; only allow foreigners to lead them.
08:20<Gekz>oh man
08:20<Gekz>that would so rock
08:20<@peter1138>but... arnie...
08:21<Gekz>kill him
08:21<Gekz>move on
08:21<cjk>kill bill
08:21<Brianetta>peter1138: He's not foreign
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08:21<cjk>he is?
08:21<Brianetta>No, he's a US citizen
08:22<cjk>but born outside US
08:22<Brianetta>I'm talking totalk foreigners; if they don't speak English, that's better
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08:22<Brianetta>Get some Chinese peasant to take the reigns
08:22<@peter1138>you said US-born, heh
08:22<Brianetta>No, I stated their rules
08:22<Brianetta>I said "reverse that entirely"
08:22<Brianetta>cjk: Nope
08:23<Brianetta>reins, as in horse, not reigns, as in what a king does
08:23<Brianetta>You can't take the reigns
08:23<Brianetta>reign is a verb
08:23<Brianetta>Just making that mistake in the first place fills me with shame; I know better.
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08:27<Gekz>my girlfriend had a dream about me stealing someones wallet lolo
08:27<@peter1138>did you?
08:28<Gekz>thats why I lol'd
08:28<Gekz>I don't do that
08:28<Gekz>not any more...
08:34*Roest looks for his wallet
08:35<Gekz>Roest: doesnt put your hand there! That's my e-penis :/
08:35<Gekz>doesnt? wtf
08:35*Roest gives Gekz two '
08:35<ln>Gekz: the apostrophes
08:35<Gekz>ln: que?
08:36<Gekz>Mi ne komprenas.
08:36<ln>Gekz: '
08:36<Roest>the apostroph cop just got you
08:36<Gekz>ln: si?
08:36<Gekz>my apostrophe key doesnt work
08:36<ln>Gekz: if what?
08:36<Gekz>i just mashed it.
08:37<Gekz>theres so much gunk under that key
08:37*Gekz cleans
08:37<Gekz>gunk, crap
08:37<Gekz>dust bunnies
08:37<ln>Gekz: in the meanwhile, you can write "does not", "will not", etc.
08:37<Gekz>I shant
08:37<Gekz>OH PWNERED
08:38<Gekz>I shanty
08:38<Roest>blah stupid irc [14:41] [Nickname] Erroneous Nickname
08:39<Roest>i need a forum ignore option
08:39<Roest>someone write me a greasemonkey script plz
08:40<Maedhros>doesn't adding people to your "enemies" list do that for you already?
08:40<Roest>there is an enemies list?
08:40*Maedhros has never tried it, though
08:41*Roest goes looking
08:41<Maedhros>Roest: "Friends and Foes" in the user control panel (if you're using the English translation)
08:42<Roest>it works
08:42<Roest>so much better
08:43<Maedhros>"TTD is counted as abandonware by the original publishers"
08:44<ln>do they link to the announcement by the original publishers?
08:46<Gekz>ln: counted
08:46<Gekz>not established
08:46<Gekz>and abandonware is a phallacy anyway
08:46<ln>count dracula
08:46<Gekz>it just means noone has the money to sue you if you screw with their code
08:46<Maedhros>err, fallacy ;)
08:46<Gekz>Maedhros: nein
08:47<Roest>count chocula
08:49*Maedhros is off to lectures
08:49<@peter1138>on a bank holiday :o
08:49<@orudge>cjk: fyi, my network and LFN-enabled FreeDOS install currently uses 61KB of conventional memory, 21KB of upper memory, 362KB of reserved memory, and 1.4MB of extended memory (sitting at 577KB of conventional free, plenty ;)
08:49*orudge 's lectures are cancelled
08:49*orudge has a practical due in tonight though
08:50<@peter1138>how much does openttd take up?
08:50<@orudge>I don't know exactly, but I managed to run a dedicated server in 16MB of RAM (256x256 map) without problems
08:51<@orudge>once I added a chunk of newgrfs, it ran out of memory
08:51<@orudge>I'll have to perform some proper tests when I can
08:51<@peter1138>that figures
08:51<@peter1138>ooh, my bread is starting to smell nice
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08:52<Gekz>peter1138: how many days did you leave it out for
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08:58<@peter1138>Gekz: -30 minutes so far
08:59<Roest>My firewall says there is a virus in the file 'OpenTTDAutoUpdater.exe'. Is that true or not?
09:00<planetmaker>^^ don't frighten me... :S
09:01<Roest>nice firewall too, mine dont have virus checks
09:03<SmatZ>Roest: it connects somewhere and downloads an exe, so it may be considered dangerous by antivirus
09:03<@orudge>peter1138: well, openttd itself seems to use 80KB of conventional memory, plus 13.2KB for the DPMI server. Running a 256x256 map, no GRFs, dedicated server uses about 11MB of XMS
09:04<Roest>i was going to answer yes it's true but it's too late already and he should cancel his CC card and telephone subscriptions
09:04<Roest>but then i didnt because of the friendly spirit
09:04<@orudge>making it 1024x1024 seems to use 25MB of XMS
09:05<Eddi|zuHause2>TTO used around 2.5MB i kinda remember
09:05<@orudge>56MB XMS with 2048x2048
09:06<@orudge>it may be using EMS too, potentially, hmm
09:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i never understood the difference in EMS and XMS
09:06<@orudge>ah, well, no, it'll just be the EMS isn't available because the XMS is using it ;)
09:06<Gekz>my boss just got kicked out of his flat
09:06<Gekz>and the chick that kicked him out told me on msn >_>
09:07<Gekz>this whole situation makes me angry
09:07<Eddi|zuHause2>go ask him for a raise now :p
09:07<Gekz>hes in another nation
09:08<Eddi|zuHause2>if you do not have an apostrophe key, write out the damn words!
09:08<@peter1138>orudge: so basically it's much like normal then :D
09:09<@orudge>seems to be, no reason it ought to be any different really
09:09<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: no
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09:12<insulfrog>hi, how is all? :)
09:12<@orudge>Most splendid
09:12<@orudge>except that I need to go and do some actual academic work instead of hacking around with OpenTTD
09:13<insulfrog>ok :)
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09:15<insulfrog>Has anyone used the latest 'MiniN' version of OTTD?
09:15<@orudge>Not in a long time
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09:17<insulfrog>I have just downloaded it a couple of days back and it includes an 'experimental' version of Path Based Signalling (PBS)
09:17<Roest>isn't the last one rev 9000 something
09:17<insulfrog>no, it is r8928
09:17<@orudge>that was an old version of PBS
09:17<@orudge>take a look at YAPP
09:17<@orudge>it's a new PBS patch
09:17<Roest>8928 :)
09:18<@peter1138>heh, ancient
09:18<Roest>ask orudge for the dos version too
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09:19<insulfrog>I tried to but apparently, there appears to be something not correct as the OTTD version for that would not compile using Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition
09:20<insulfrog>Let me just sort some stuff out, then I'll explain it all :)
09:20*Roest can't wait to hear it
09:20<@peter1138>unfortunately, miniin is dead
09:21<@peter1138>your statement is a bit like "Has anyone used the latest Windows ME version of Windows?
09:21<Roest>so peter what is it with you and the analogies
09:24<insulfrog>Now, do I need an SVN version of OTTD for the patch to work?
09:24<Roest>most likely
09:25<insulfrog>now, the version that TortoiseSVN checkout gave me is r12954
09:26*Roest waits for the return
09:30<Alberth>Roest: In the mean time, you can prepare a response for the reject he'll get
09:30<Roest>i'm trying to remember what the last problem with yapp was
09:31<Roest>think the rectangle code change
09:31<Roest>or maybe that was paxdest
09:31<@peter1138>something to do with non-uniform stations
09:33<Eddi|zuHause2>easiest would be to tell him to "update" to 12697
09:34<Eddi|zuHause2>(and make sure he's using trunk, instead of any branch)
09:34<Roest>2nd easiest would be using BuildOTTD
09:34<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, my bridge patch for miniin should be lying around somewhere still ;)
09:34<Roest>easiest would be using an already existing binary
09:35<Eddi|zuHause2>that won't help him build it with visual studio :p
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09:40<Rubidium>Roest: but pointing him to the location where those binaries are is lame ;)
09:41<Roest>oh btw rubidum, what kind of warnings? gcc 4.2.1 gives none
09:41*Roest fails at tab completion
09:42<Rubidium>probably unused variables or empty blocks
09:42<cjk>-Wall -Wformat=2 -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 ... run that
09:42<cjk>then perhaps, -Wredundant-decls too
09:44<Rubidium>that last one gives loads of warnings
09:44<insulfrog>ok, I'm back
09:45<Rubidium>seems it doesn't like compile time 'asserts'
09:46<SmatZ>Roest: for (...); instead of for (...) { }
09:46<SmatZ>gcc 4.3 gives warning for empty body of loops
09:46<insulfrog>now what I was saying
09:46<Alberth>Rubidium: those are inside the compiler :P
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09:47<Roest>smatz but that's a construct which is pretty often used, not only by me
09:48<@peter1138>yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
09:48<@peter1138>then it's an explicit empty body
09:48<Alberth>SmatZ: Can't we keep the curly brackets? They are much better noticed than a semi-colon
09:48<@peter1138>Alberth: you read it the wrong way around :)
09:49<Alberth>peter1138: noloc-imes a naht deciton retteb hcum era yehT ?stekcarb ylruc eht peek ew t'naC :ZtamS
09:49<insulfrog>Now, I now download the latest patch for 'Yet Another PBS Patch' (YAPP) from you-know-where
09:49<SmatZ>huh Alberth
09:50<SmatZ>[15:48:04] <peter1138> yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
09:50<Roest>insulfrog are insisting in compiling it yourself, if not there's also windows binaries posted in that thread
09:50<Lakie>That would be more logical as its easier to follow.
09:50<Lakie>Even though both are valid.
09:51<Eddi|zuHause2>"warnings" are not about "valid", they are about "people often get this wrong"
09:52<Lakie>Heh, sorry, I've been toding too much c#
09:52<@peter1138>one of the reasons our coding style enforces { } for multiline ifs
09:52<Lakie>(In which null statements are valid but will give warnings)
09:54<Lakie>Without the { } though, only the first instruction would be done with the if...
09:54<hylje>braces? pff.
09:54<@peter1138>Lakie: exactly
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09:55<@peter1138>one day i shall acquire commit rights to ttdpatch, to clean up its bit of C...
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09:56<Lakie>First you would have to write the .diff file or patch.
09:57<@peter1138>write a diff? how insane
09:57<@peter1138>hmm, bee-season
09:58<Lakie>I meant write the changes and generate a diff
09:59<insulfrog>Now the latest patch is 'OpenTTD-r12934___yapp_r12810_v6_2_svn', bit I don't think that patch is compatible with OTTD build r12954, is it?
10:02<Lakie>Depends on what it changes and the changes between the revisions.
10:05<insulfrog>I'll try it anyway
10:06*insulfrog backs up the build, then applies the patch
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10:07*insulfrog uses TortioseSVN to apply the patch
10:07<Roest>computer will blow up
10:08*insulfrog now attempt now to compile the build using Visual C++ Express
10:08<Eddi|zuHause2>insulfrog: best you use tortoise to "update" to r12810 first
10:09<Roest>nah the patch he uses is updated for 12934 already
10:10<insulfrog>the build it its curent before I applied the patch
10:10<insulfrog>(tried it earlier)
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10:13*insulfrog starts the building process
10:17<Eddi|zuHause2>oh... confusing naming scheme...
10:18*insulfrog discovers there is 'png.h', 'zlib.h' and 'ft2build.h' missing from the project
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>did you try to build openttd without patch first?
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>did you get
10:20*insulfrog tries building his backup
10:20<insulfrog>stand by
10:21*Roest stands by
10:21*Rubidium keeps sitting
10:21<Eddi|zuHause2>there is no use making a "backup", svn does that for you automatically
10:22<Eddi|zuHause2>just use "revert" from the tortoise menu
10:22<insulfrog>I normally back up manually (just in case :p )
10:22<Rubidium>if it is important, then somebody has mirrored your data, otherwise it is not important
10:23<insulfrog>still the same .h files are still missing
10:24<Roest>now are they missing or no entry in the .vcproj files?
10:24<insulfrog>(must be something that visual studio express can't handle)
10:25<Rubidium>insulfrog: have you followed the manual?
10:25*Roest remembers that dilbert comic, engineers don't read manuals
10:26<insulfrog>I did but, I don't think I understood it properly
10:29<insulfrog>I think I missed the files you mentioned :p
10:32*insulfrog downloaded the files and unzips them
10:33<Sacro>you need the .h files in an include\ folder
10:33<Sacro>and the .dll in err
10:33<insulfrog>cheers Sacro
10:34*insulfrog salutes him :p
10:35<Sacro>i use VS2005Pro myself
10:35<Sacro>i do have 2008pro too
10:35<insulfrog>I use Visual Express (since its free :p )
10:36-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
10:37<Lakie>Sacro: .h in include\ and .lib in lib\, and finally the dll in the excutable's folder in one of the folders of the PATH environment variable.
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10:40<Mihai>what's the channel for dev server ?
10:41-!-Mihai is now known as ropiku
10:41<@Belugas>there is none, as far as i know
10:41<@Belugas>you have this channel, of course
10:42<Rubidium>dev server?
10:42<Rubidium>what dev server?
10:42<ropiku>sorry, I mistaken with openttdcoop
10:43<ropiku>thank you, joined
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10:46<FlashFF>Question: is there a openttd build that is a pure dedicated server? ie all of the extra stuff taken out and nicely optimised?
10:47<Ammler>heya, tried to make desync-debug build:
10:47<Ammler>FlashFF: you could compile it self
10:47<Ammler>but the size doesn't really matter
10:48<FlashFF>i tore out all the extra stuff once, and made a nice server that auto reset and all that malarky, but due to a horrible hd fail i lost it all. Back to square 1 i suppose lol
10:48<Ammler>and you won't have performance advantages
10:48<insulfrog>are you sure that the dll(s) came with the openttd-useful download?
10:48<FlashFF>yeah i was basically looking for a raw build i could alter
10:49<FlashFF>My old version i added build in mysql support and a scheduler and such but the longest part of the whole thing was stripping out the extra bits
10:50<FlashFF>note to self: backup more often
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10:52<Ammler>FlashFF: well, you should also post your diffs to share such things
10:53<Ammler>then you would have automatically a backup :P
10:54<@peter1138>it's too hot!
10:54<Roest>it's too cold, sorry
10:55<Roest>no you
10:55<@peter1138>it's too hot
10:55<FlashFF>lol dunno how well the diff woulda worked, i really ripped it apart
10:55<Roest>that whole global warming thing is a lie
10:55<FlashFF>but the plan was to share it once it worked well enough
10:56-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
10:57<FlashFF>the world hates me
10:57<hylje>bugger all
10:58<FlashFF>my VirtualPC linux install is borked by the looks of it
10:59-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
10:59<@peter1138>it's about 35°C... in my greenhouse
11:00<@peter1138>with the door open
11:00<Roest>i can imagine you sitting in the green house with a laptop
11:00<@peter1138>the other thermometer says it's 25°C
11:00<@peter1138>no, i have legs
11:03<insulfrog>hmm... something is not right
11:04<Roest>same not right as earlier or something different not right?
11:04<insulfrog>where do you put these 'include' and 'lib' folders?
11:04<Roest>if it's the latte you could say you're making progress
11:05<insulfrog>(in your uncompiled OTTD folder or in your Visual C++ folder?)
11:07<insulfrog>visual c++ folder
11:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12955 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r12858): compilation with desync debug was broken
11:09<Sacro>why do i have VJ#
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11:10<insulfrog>don't know, perhaps you was studying Java :)
11:11<Sacro>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC
11:11<Sacro>is where i put them
11:11*Sacro fancies some simsig
11:12<insulfrog>now, I have to figure out where it is compiled to
11:13<Roest>that's usually easy to find out
11:13<insulfrog>060 beta 5?
11:19<insulfrog>I found the exe in the debug folder :)
11:19<cjk>see, msvc is so complex
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11:21<insulfrog>I know that there are files to copy from the original TTD, but other than that, is there anything else to do?
11:22<ropiku>insulfrog: no
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11:25<insulfrog>(no language packs?)
11:27<Sacro>you need to move the lang/*.lng
11:27<cjk>just $PACKAGEMANAGER install openttd
11:27<Roest>./configure make
11:28<cjk>./configure: unknown argument: make
11:28<blathijs>Just ./configure
11:28<cjk>at least do it the right way
11:28<blathijs>and then make
11:28<cjk>./configure --install-dir=$PWD/rt && make install;
11:28<Roest>now i know why it's not working
11:29<Roest>lol i like that site
11:32<Sacro>./configure &; make
11:32<blathijs>Sacro: That's a bad idea
11:32<blathijs>either do && or ;
11:32<Sacro>blathijs: depends how quick the configure is :p
11:32<blathijs>Now it will configure in the background while starting to make immediately :-)
11:32<cjk>Sacro: syntax error
11:32<Sacro>yeah true
11:32<cjk>so it's not really an idea that eats your disk
11:33<Sacro>./configure & ; make
11:33<cjk>still syntax error
11:33<cjk>it's _either_ & or ;
11:33<blathijs>Bash doesn't grok empty statements then?
11:33<cjk>well, then _write_ an empty statement the right way
11:33<cjk>./configure & :; make
11:33<cjk>but then again, ./configue & make is just faster (and wrong btw)
11:34<cjk>running make while configure is not finished =>
11:36<Sacro>don't hassle the hoff
11:36<Sacro><3 collegehumour
11:37<cjk>hasselhoff is the better rickroll :p
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11:43<insulfrog>ok, I have got it to run
11:43<insulfrog>now, testing to make sure everything is working
11:45<insulfrog>wait a minute
11:45*Roest gets his PBS for dummies
11:45<insulfrog>there is a file that is not readable
11:46<insulfrog>but the debug window does not say
11:47<insulfrog>(there must be something missing)
11:47*Roest takes his grats back
11:49<insulfrog>it is playable
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11:51*insulfrog wonders what file could be missing
11:55<insulfrog>any ideas what file could be missing?
11:55*Roest looks into crystal ball
11:56-!-dR3x4cK [] has joined #openttd
11:57*Sacro scratches crystal ball
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11:58<Roest>it's cloudy
11:59<Roest>and has a scratch
12:04<+glx><Sacro> you need to move the lang/*.lng <-- no you need to move the exe in bin
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12:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12956 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Code-style application on switch-case aligment
12:06<insulfrog>cheers (gives everyone a thumbs up)
12:06*insulfrog goes and tests it
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12:12<insulfrog>now, according to the YAPP thread, there is a 'patch' option, which allows you to turn on PBS signals and it is located under the 'construction' tab
12:12<Sacro><3 yapp
12:13<insulfrog>(YAPP = Yet Another PBS Patch)
12:13<Sacro>i know
12:13<Sacro>i've been playing OpenTTD for years
12:13<Sacro>since 0.3.6 iirc
12:13<insulfrog>I cannot seem to find that option
12:13<Sacro>i don't recall that one
12:14<@Belugas>first contact i had with OpenTTD was with 0.3.4
12:14<Sacro>Belugas: yes, i might have used 0.3.4
12:14<@Belugas>a few weeks after, 0.3.6 was out
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12:15<insulfrog>Sacro: its here where it says it: (first post)
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12:40<insulfrog>to get PBS signals, no debut that I manually need to add 2 lines in the openttd.cfg file
12:43<@peter1138>no you don't
12:44<@peter1138>and doubt is not spelled debut
12:48<insulfrog>then how do you get PBS signals to work then?, I've applied the patch, built OTTD, now what?
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13:07<insulfrog>I think I have REALLY missed something here...
13:08<Progman>enable them in the settings
13:08<Progman>there are new patch options
13:08<Progman>first one is "show reserved tracks" which should be on
13:09<Progman>if you dont have such an option you haven't build it properbly
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13:12<mabako>I wonder, could anyone explain me why my self-compiled linux server is unable to load any savegames, but the windows client (with vs2005 or buildottd) can load them fine?
13:13<insulfrog>wait a minute..., I think I forgotten something
13:14<@Belugas>mabako : it's very hard to answer. We do not even kow what you've changed in your sources
13:14<Sacro>lack of zlib
13:14<@Belugas>nor the error message ou had
13:14*Sacro wins
13:15<mabako>well, i want to use something like the shared tracks patch for a more recent version (r12935), and have changed the feerder_share line in cargopacket.cpp to the following:
13:15<mabako> SLE_CONDVAR(CargoPacket, feeder_share[0], SLE_INT64, 0, 95),
13:15<mabako> SLE_CONDARR(CargoPacket, feeder_share, SLE_INT64, 8, 96, SL_MAX_VERSION),
13:16<mabako>and i just get (when starting the server with -g)
13:16<mabako>Game Load Failed
13:16<mabako>File not readable
13:16<mabako>dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting
13:17<mabako>I've changed the savegame-version to 96 also, and I've no idea what might be the problem now
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13:18<insulfrog>ok, I 'think' I have got it, just need to test (don't celebrate too soon :p )
13:20<insulfrog>if all goes well, I might play something else, like SimSig :D
13:20<Sacro><3 SimSig
13:21<insulfrog>anyway, with this new PBS goes well, we can easily replicate several areas of SimSig :)
13:21<insulfrog>(since they don;t use pre-signals :p )
13:21<Sacro>insulfrog: yes, i got bored and replicated Kings Cross
13:22<Sacro>though i get upset at the lack of ablilty to chose between a crossover and a single/double slip
13:22*insulfrog thinks his bad fast typing is getting to the best of him, lol
13:25<insulfrog>i got to go, bye :)
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13:26<@Belugas>mabako, exact same code on both machine? one works not the other? then, it might be related to what Sacro told you
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13:26<Phantasm>Hiya Belugas.
13:26<@Belugas>best way to know : revert the linux version, try clean build
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13:27<@Belugas>hey Phantasm
13:28<mabako>I reverted it and applied the patch afterwards really
13:28<@Belugas>no no no...
13:28<@Belugas>i mean, revert it totally,
13:28<@Belugas>built clean
13:28<@Belugas>and test ckean
13:29<mabako>erm... I checked out with svn, then copied the file into another dir and applied the patch there
13:29<mabako>and btw...
13:29<mabako>ii zlib1g 1.2.3-13 compression library - runtime
13:29<mabako>ii zlib1g-dev 1.2.3-13 compression library - development
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13:29<@Belugas>have you ever tried a clean build before?
13:29<mabako>how do i build it 'clean'?
13:30<@Belugas>import from svn, do not apply any patch, compile and run
13:30<mabako>actually not
13:30<@Belugas>YOu may have to translate to linux wording, as i only compile using msvc
13:30<mabako>not on linux at all
13:30<@Belugas>you may try that first :)
13:31<mabako>I'll have a look
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13:42<mabako>Belugas: it works with a clean build, i can save & load games afterwards fine
13:42<@Belugas>thus, there is something that is broken on the patch
13:43<@Belugas>and it means that Sacro has lost!
13:50<dih># an the all go hand in hand...
13:59<@Belugas>+ SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, shared_length, SLE_UINT32, 82, SL_MAX_VERSION), <---- 82 might be a little too low...
14:00-!-insulfrog [] has joined #openttd
14:01<insulfrog>I'm back :)
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14:03<@Belugas>what the heel is that stuff been done on depot_gui.cpp???
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14:03*Belugas resumes some real work...
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14:20<mabako>Belugas: that's there so you can sell your vehicle in other player's depots
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14:22<@Belugas>82 is not the starting version number where the shared_lenght variable is declared?
14:22<@Belugas>if so, it is wrong
14:23<mabako>i see
14:24<mabako>I should have a look, but i'm not quite certain whetever that is really the reason why i can't load the games I've saved with the same server-executeable (savegame-version being 96) before
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14:25<@Belugas>i dion;t know, mabako. It's just someting taht seems wrong for me
14:25<@Belugas>i cannot try nor compile (nor want to) the patch, just looking at it
14:26<mabako>I'll give it a try
14:26<mabako>it was sure wrong
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14:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12957 /trunk/ (config.lib src/network/network_client.cpp src/saveload.cpp): -Codechange: do not misuse snprintf when you just want to copy a string, also use DEBUG instead of fprintf in one case.
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14:34<mabako>the server still can't read the saved files, however if i save the file at my windows pc locally, i can load it fine
14:35<mabako>oh, might actually work now
14:37*insulfrog is on #openttdcoop server
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14:39<Dotted>is there anyway to upgrade all your trains to a different engine in one go?
14:39<mabako>click on the train icon (vehicle list)
14:40<mrfrenzy>yes, look at the bottom of the window that shows all your trains
14:40<mabako>in the bottom, there's this dropdown with 'replace vehicles'
14:41<Dotted>ah lol, thx
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15:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12958 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Allocate sprites reserved by GRM in advance of 'Action 1' sprites, giving much less chance of GRM reservation failure if lots of NewGRF sets are loaded.
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15:25<SmatZ>hello Wolf01
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15:45<Pinchiukas>damn I can't find the thread with the original ttd graphics, anyone can help?
15:46<SmatZ>Pinchiukas: ?
15:46-!-dR3x4cK [] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
15:46<Pinchiukas>SmatZ: I was talking about the original ttd graphics
15:47<Pinchiukas>were new open source graphics made already?
15:47<@peter1138>for original data files, try a local shop
15:47<@peter1138>or ebay
15:47<Pinchiukas>someone gave me a link to a post on the forum
15:47<Sacro>Prof_Frink knows by heart
15:47*Tefad coughs
15:47<Pinchiukas>I can no longer find it though
15:47<@peter1138>or look for a place to buy on google
15:49<@orudge>Pinchiukas: that link was removed
15:49<@orudge>there was a link removed yesterday
15:49<@orudge>with the graphics uploaded
15:50<Pinchiukas>I just found a link and downloaded it
15:50-!-Boyinblue0 [] has joined #openttd
15:50<Pinchiukas>hey, I haven't used it yet
15:50<Pinchiukas>does that make me a thief already?
15:51<Pinchiukas>aw, man!
15:51*Sacro drops a Belugas on Pinchiukas
15:51<Pinchiukas>I guess I should go turn myself in
15:51<Sacro>yes you should
15:52<Pinchiukas>by the way, today I noticed that there are a lot of transport simulation games out there, can somebody tell me which are more popular/better? :)
15:52<@Belugas>better? OPENTTD!!!
15:52<Tefad>Pinchiukas: troll.
15:52<Tefad>get back under your bridge ; )
15:52<@peter1138>i've only played locomotion and ttd
15:53<@peter1138>so that's hardly a good sample
15:53<Pinchiukas>Tefad: I don't know... people say I shouldn't, why would I listen to you?
15:53<Pinchiukas>peter1138: what were your impressions?
15:53<Pinchiukas>I looked at some 3d game videos, looks repulsive
15:53<mabako>imo you don't really need a 3d interface
15:54<@peter1138>of locomotion? not very good
15:54<@peter1138>sure, nice bridges
15:54<@peter1138>but that's about it
15:54<Pinchiukas>mabako: I think it's a matter of taste
15:54<Pinchiukas>and sometimes it would be really nice if I could turn the view in openttd 90 degrees to see better
15:55<@Belugas>not at all, 3d is a vision, an approach... not to mention code been twisted in and out
15:55<mabako>turning it 90° doesn't make it 3d
15:55<Pinchiukas>I know, that's why I said it
15:56<Pinchiukas>that's what makes it easy to implement
15:56<Pinchiukas>...somewhat :)
15:56*Sacro can turn OpenTTD 90 degrees
15:56<@Belugas>hate 3d, makes the game one step closer to reality
15:56<Pinchiukas>rolling your display doesn't count Sacro
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15:56<Sacro>Prof_Frink: damn
15:56<Pinchiukas>Belugas: try tetris or pong, it's as far from reality as it gets
15:56<@Belugas>those i like
15:57<@Belugas>chess too...
15:57<trd>Play ASCII pong on IRC and lose.
15:57*Belugas has a chess game on his cellphone
15:57<Pinchiukas>so openttd hasn't got a complete graphics set yet?
15:58<@Belugas>has it?
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16:11<Wolf01>wow, traffic lights works like a charm with timetables, vehicles always have different late times :O
16:11<Wolf01>hey a pikachu!
16:11<Wolf01>ehm... not
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16:14<Roujin>be sure to drop me a note if you have any suggestion or bug report regarding the traffic lights :)
16:15<Roujin>good night
16:15<Sionide>ohh, are traffic lights in the nightly builds?
16:15<Wolf01>I just compiled the patch
16:15<Wolf01>gn Roujin
16:15<Sionide>likely to be some time soon? sounds like a "big thing"
16:16<Sionide>i lurk here most of time, till a "big thing" hits the nightlies then i get into it and start playing a huge map to death
16:16<JelloX>traffic lights? sweet
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16:21<@orudge>Nobody here wanting to come to the TT meet? Feel free to vote:
16:21<@orudge>but only vote if you're going to actually come :P
16:23<Wolf01>London? too far away
16:23<@Belugas>Anyone would like to help organising a meeting in Montreal at the same date?
16:23<Wolf01>Anyone on my garden?
16:23<Rubidium>what would be cheaper?
16:23<@Bjarni>England itself is too far away
16:23<@Bjarni>so is Montreal
16:23<blathijs>Hmm, if it wasn't for the North Sea, I might consider :-)
16:23<Rubidium>a ticket to Montreal or England?
16:23<blathijs>Rubidium: Dunno, might be so much different
16:23<Rubidium>blathijs: E'de?
16:23<@Bjarni>Wolf01's garden sounds nice though
16:24<blathijs>Rubidium: Sounds fun :-)
16:24<@peter1138>hmm, £296 return to montreal
16:24<@peter1138>er... tomorrow
16:24<@Bjarni>I can go to Heathrow for like £50
16:25<@Bjarni>but I will not use planes that cheap
16:25<@Belugas>i can go to montreal for... nothing!
16:25*blathijs can go to sleep for free, so I think I'll just do that
16:25<blathijs>Good night everyone :-)
16:25<@Bjarni>also getting to London might not be the expensive part of a London trip
16:26<@peter1138>don't worry, orudge will provide women
16:26<@orudge>Getting to London from Europe can generally be done quite cheaply
16:26<@orudge>getting around London, maybe not so cheap :P
16:26<@orudge>Yes, both real and inflatable
16:26<SmatZ>did I hear "women"?
16:26<@orudge>book in advance.
16:26<@peter1138>or was it sacro dressed up?
16:27<Sionide>who's played ottd on a train before?
16:27<@orudge>I have.
16:27<@orudge>I've not played OpenTTD "properly" on a train
16:27<Sionide>i designed the station we stopped at for ages.. by looking around and making it
16:27<@orudge>I've played normal TTD (or TTDPatch) on a train, and a plane, and a boat
16:28<DaleStan>Just missing a bus.
16:28<@orudge>Buses are too cramped
16:28<@Bjarni>what will actually happen at such a meeting?
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16:28<@orudge>Bjarni: well, last year
16:28<@orudge>we talked
16:28<@orudge>some people played some TTD
16:28<@orudge>this year, Andel is organising some games
16:28<@orudge>but otherwise, I imagine it'll be much the same
16:28<@Bjarni>will there be women?
16:28<Tefad>IRC in person.
16:29<@orudge>there were women last year, Bjarni
16:29<@orudge>although, they're both married now
16:29<@orudge>so bad luck
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16:29<@Bjarni>Helen showed up?
16:29<Sionide>i could persuade my gf to tag along.. "yes do you wanna come on a day trip to london with me?"
16:29<Rubidium>maybe ask Karen!
16:29<Sionide>"oh these guys? i don't know them!"
16:29<@orudge>Bjarni: Helen and Andel's then-girlfriend Natasha
16:30<@Bjarni>I think I will pass on this trip
16:30<@orudge>who that very night became pregnant with their child, much to GoneWacko's amusement (seeing as he was in the house at the time)
16:30<@orudge>Rubidium: maybe ;)
16:30<@orudge>Sionide: heh
16:30<Sionide>i could meet GoneWacko.. that'd be weird.
16:30<@orudge>well, last year, things seemed fine enough, we weren't too scary
16:30<Sionide>and orudge as well actually.. odd.
16:31<Sionide>to me you are just words on a screen, damnit.. don't shatter my illusions
16:31<Rubidium>last (O)TTD I was at was kinda small
16:31-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
16:31<Sionide>well i will consider it when i know what date it's gonna be
16:31<@orudge>Sionide: feel free to vote on your available days!
16:31<@Bjarni>I just realised something.... how do you tell the difference between oven and Owen when saying out the words loud?
16:31<@orudge>if you're actually going to come
16:32<@orudge>Bjarni: er, we speak English
16:32<@orudge>and not foreignese :P
16:32<@orudge>w = double-you
16:32<@orudge>v = vee
16:32-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
16:32<Tefad>en francais
16:32-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
16:32<Sionide>w = "wuh" sound
16:32<Tefad>except in german
16:32-!-Sionide is now known as oven
16:33<Tefad>volkswagon is funny ; )
16:33*Rubidium turns the oven to 300 K
16:33<Sacro>brr cold
16:33<Tefad>aww, not over 9000
16:33-!-oven is now known as Sionide
16:33*Sionide jumps out
16:33<@Belugas>quiche time!
16:33<@Bjarni><Tefad> except in german <-- it was so funny when we had a German professor lecturing in maths and he had to talk about two variables called v and w (he lectured in Danish)
16:33<Tefad>isn't 300K like... room temperature
16:33<Rubidium>not from oven (kinda chilly)
16:34<@Bjarni>yes he did call w for v and stopped when he reached v right after that
16:34<Rubidium>26.85 degrees Celsius
16:34<Rubidium>or 80-ish degrees Fahrenheit
16:34<@Bjarni>more than 20°C is kinda hot
16:34<Sionide>so it was 396K here in the UK today!
16:34<Tefad>yeah, room tepmperature
16:34<Tefad>wow wtf
16:34<Sionide>296* also
16:34<@Bjarni>room temperature should be around 18°C
16:35<Rubidium>Bjarni: depends heavily on the country
16:35<@Bjarni>hotter rooms makes you less efficient and wastes energy
16:35<Tefad>depends on how much money you have.
16:35<Tefad>wastes energy?!
16:35<Rubidium>room temperature in Japan is 27-ish
16:35<Tefad>if i didn't pump the heat outside it'd be like.. crazy hot in here
16:35<Rubidium>25 degrees in trains (yes, they have thermometers in the trains)
16:36<@Bjarni>Rubidium: with what outdoor temperatures?
16:36<@peter1138>oh bjarni is a *one*
16:36<@peter1138>oven / owen indeed
16:36<Tefad>18C is brrrrrr
16:36<Tefad>27 is tolerable
16:36<@Bjarni>I didn't knew that brrrrrr means fine :/
16:37<@Bjarni>well you learn something new every day
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16:37<Tefad>20C is what i generally use
16:37<Tefad>unless i'm poor
16:37<@Belugas>yeah, we, nordic people, have thick skins who can bare colder temps
16:37<Tefad>then it drops to 18C or so
16:37<Tefad>i also have a wife from southern US
16:37<@peter1138>20 is uncomfortable
16:37<@Bjarni><Tefad> 27 is tolerable <-- I would get almost naked and lie on the bed (with no blanket or anything) and wait for the temperature to stop
16:37<Tefad>who's acceptable temperature range is a small band within my own.
16:38<@peter1138>27... i'd die
16:38<@Bjarni>and hope that it drops before I melt
16:38<Rubidium>Bjarni: between -10 and 25 degrees
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16:38<Rubidium>Celsius ofcourse
16:38<Tefad>it's at least 25C in here right now
16:39<@Belugas>-25(no winds) +37(strong winds) is bareble
16:39<@Bjarni>we used to have 22°C in the trains... now they added aircondition so you have to wear more cloth inside the trains than outside during mid summer
16:39<Tefad>don't care to waste money on moving the heat out.
16:39<@Bjarni>like you should wear a jacket in the train but only in the train
16:39<@orudge>then you get outside the train and realise how bloody hot it is
16:39<@Bjarni>now that's silly
16:39<@orudge>I had that when I was at some government office in Brazil
16:39<@orudge>was quite normal outside
16:40<@orudge>then went inside with the air conditioning
16:40<@orudge>came out an hour later and was sweltering
16:40<@peter1138>i have that in my car...
16:40<Tefad>i have that in my house.
16:40<Tefad>; )
16:40<@orudge>my car is a bit less advanced than peter1138
16:40<@orudge>well, it was
16:40<@orudge>I don't know what car I will have in June :o
16:40<Tefad>27C with very low humidity is quite tolerable
16:40<@Bjarni>my cooling device is based on holes in the walls that can be opened and closed as needed
16:40<@Bjarni>those are called windows
16:40<Tefad>i grew up with 27C cooling in summer
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16:41<Tefad>though it wasn't so low humidity : (
16:41<Tefad>Bjarni: those would be heating devices here.
16:41<Tefad>and we try to keep them barred up.
16:41<ln>Tefad: 27 coulombs?
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16:41<@Bjarni>they work specially well when you open one in each end of the room
16:41<Tefad>no, i don't have time to write the deg symbol
16:42<Tefad>nor patience to figure out the deg-C symbol
16:42<Tefad>nor am i going to convert everything to kelvin to avoid needing deg all together.
16:42<@Bjarni>Tefad: alt+q
16:42<@peter1138>°C is usually enough
16:42<Tefad>that closes the window.
16:42<Tefad>no wait
16:42<Tefad>it puts me at window 11
16:42<@Bjarni>then get a mac :P
16:42<Tefad>fuck macs
16:42<@orudge>I wouldn't do that, Tefad
16:42<@peter1138>yes, there's ℃ too
16:42<@orudge>gets rather messy
16:43<Tefad>the context is temperature
16:43<ln>orudge: i'm pretty sure that's one of the backwards-compatibility unicode characters that are not supposed to be used.
16:43<Tefad>27C is easily seen as a temperature in this context
16:43<@Bjarni>Tefad: fucking a disk drive or optical drive might be bad for your member
16:43<@peter1138>Bjarni... grow up?
16:43<Sacro>peter1138: seconded
16:43<Tefad>if we were talking about electronics AND cooling, then sure i could see the need for specifying degrees.
16:43<@Bjarni>at school there were jokes about a certain guy who should be in love with his computer
16:44<@orudge>ln: well, I'd usually use U+00B0 + 'C' rather than U+2103
16:44<Tefad>yeah, the deg-c symbol is backward compatibility from asia i think
16:44<@Bjarni>and there were a story about him fucking his disk drive
16:44<@Bjarni>I don't think he did so though
16:44<@peter1138>nobody cares
16:47<Maedhros>hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ?
16:47*Maedhros wishes he'd noticed that they didn't *before* building that harbour...
16:50<Rubidium>Maedhros: "Maedhros' PBI aware fuel oil carrying ship set"?
16:51<Maedhros>yeah, i guess i'll have to start delving into the murky world of cargos
16:53<@Belugas>diving... murky...
16:53<@Belugas>loves the sound of that...
16:53*Belugas splouches
16:54<@peter1138>feh, just set a refit mask of (uint32)-1 ;)
16:55<+glx>that's MAX_UINT32
16:55<@peter1138>feh, just set a refit mask of MAX_UINT32 ;)
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17:09<Holzberger>Heya All, I have a question for the developpers of OTTD, or those who can also answer my question... Are the developpers currently working on toll booths? Or are there plans to start soon?
17:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12959 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't assume no production when the first produced cargo is invalid in industries directory
17:09<+glx>Holzberger: no and no
17:10<Holzberger>Do you recall if someone did ever do something with toll booth (and I dont refer to someone who made a louzy drawing?)
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17:17<mabako>my implentation of shared tracks uses waypoints as kind of tollports atm
17:18<mabako>thought that's bad because you can't have multiple tiles - one waypoint
17:19<mabako>for getting cash, it's fine however
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17:34<Holzberger>hmmm mabako... I see your tread now... Maybe it is nice to see it develop... Thx for the answers btw :)
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17:34<mabako>I've not even created a thread on the forums
17:36<mabako>and tbh, I wouldn't know how how i could 'suggest' the pathfinder to find a waypoint which is multiple tiles large
17:37<mabako>or.. pretends to be, and where every waypoint has a pointer to the next/prev. waypoint in order
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17:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12960 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: handle return values of (some) file system related functions.
17:59-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
18:03<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12961 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Codechange: store the type of savegame we are loading in a global variable
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18:22<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12962 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r12961): forgot one break
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18:26<Ammler>[22:47] <Maedhros> hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ? <-- doesn't newships carry everything?
18:27<Ammler>oh, just left
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18:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12963 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp network/network_client.cpp): -Fix (r12960): loading some NewGRFs could cause an infinite loop.
18:37<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
18:37<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 53 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I don't think he did so though
18:37<SmatZ>do you miss him?
18:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12964 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rewrite callback 37 related code so it will be easier to add supported windows
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18:42<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12965 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: add support for callback 37 in industries directory window
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18:43<Sacro>SmatZ: yes
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18:48<@peter1138>i don't miss bjarni
18:48<@peter1138>i miss yapp
18:49<Sacro>I MISS YAPP TOO
18:49<Sacro>but ooh yay
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18:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12966 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Update: apply english.txt changes from r12965 to other languages
18:58<@Bjarni> <peter1138> i don't miss bjarni <-- there is no reason to miss me when I'm around ;)
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19:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12967 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r12966): my lang update script failed
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22:38<@Belugas>yeah indeed
22:38<@Belugas>freaking action 06
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---Logclosed Tue May 06 00:00:03 2008