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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-05

---Logopened Mon May 05 00:00:26 2008
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00:37<k-man>do you get paid more for longer hauls?
00:48<echinos>YES!!
00:48<echinos>a lot more
00:49<k-man>that seems strange to me
00:49<JelloX>...why
00:49<k-man>i mean
00:49<k-man>its too easy to maniplulate
00:50<k-man>i'm not sure of the solution
00:50<k-man>but somehow it just seems to easy to place your stations at opposite ends of the map to maximise profit
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01:25<echinos>k-man: well, you don't usually start with enough money to do that, depending on map size...
01:25<k-man>true
01:25<k-man>but do you see my point?
01:25<echinos>but yeah, money is normally not a problem in openttd
01:26<echinos>the challenge is more about building good train networks
01:26<k-man>agreed
01:26<echinos>and, I guess, see just how much money you can make
01:26<echinos>;)
01:26<k-man>true
01:26<k-man>but why ship things across the map if you can ship it locally
01:27<echinos>I couldn't make money the first few times I played it, 'cause I didn't know about the distance thing
01:27<k-man>maybe if there was more penalty for the time taken
01:27<k-man>ie closer deliveries would be more profitable cos they are faster
01:28<echinos>that would be bad on the other end of the scale though... you could spend a *tiny* amount of money and make a lot
01:28<k-man>hmm good point
01:28<k-man>imagine its more a supply and demand thing
01:28<echinos>forcing you to make long rail lines complicates things pretty fast ;)
01:28<echinos>I think it's just a game mechanics thing, really
01:29<k-man>the price of a comodity should be the same, but cost of delivery is higher for longer distances
01:29<echinos>yeah, but you're not involved in the commodity price, just delivery
01:29<echinos>who knows what the power station is paying the coal mine
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01:32<Noldo>I wonder if the power station is able to add the super high transport costs to the consumer price
01:32<echinos>so that they can't afford cars and have to take public transit ;)
01:33<k-man>well exactly
01:33<k-man>i can see why its done the current way
01:33<k-man>i just wonder if theres a better way
01:35<k-man>the other way would require a lot of supply and demand modeling
01:35<k-man>it would be very complex
01:35<k-man>more like sim city than a transport game
01:37<Noldo>money could be renamed to building points or something like that
01:38<k-man>hmmm
01:41<echinos>well, there are a few things I've seen, but they're like certain passengers wanting a certain destination
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02:11<Roest>morning
02:13<Alberth>good morning
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02:23<Roest>alberth i see lots of your stuff made it into trunk
02:24<Alberth>yeah, very good. Rubidium as usual did also some improvements to my patches.
02:24<Roest>lets see what's broken now :)
02:25<Roest>ah
02:25<Alberth>nothing, they are all just code changes..... :)
02:25<Roest>window_gui.h:297: error: ‘void (* Window::wndproc)(Window*, WindowEvent*)’ is private
02:26<Alberth>use w->HandleWindowEvent(e) instaed
02:26<Alberth>s/ae/ea/
02:27<Roest>_place_proc(e->we.place.tile);
02:28<Alberth>hmm, Rubidium did more... I need to have a look!
02:28<Roest>well it happened within the last 20 commits, so not too much to check
02:29<Alberth>how do you manage your patches?
02:30<Alberth>(in particular the patch sequences for trunk?)
02:30<Roest>how do you mean that?
02:32<Alberth>I use SVN to update 'my' trunk, then make branches with bzr from that, and create my patches in the branches. However, I am not really happy with this approach
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02:33<Roest>right now i did a fresh checkout and try to apply my 12930 patchpack
02:35-!-a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd
02:36<Alberth>since my patches are usually too big for one patch file, after I created the patch, I make another branch, and copy changes over to the new branch until I have a patch for trunk. Then I commit the new branch with bzr, copy more changes, etc etc until I have a sequence of trunk-ready patches
02:36<JelloX>SO HELP
02:36<JelloX>HELPP
02:36<JelloX>shit
02:36<JelloX>WRONG CHAN
02:36<JelloX>DAMN IT
02:36<blindcoder>moin
02:37<Alberth>ie I use bzr intermediate commit's for handling the incremental changes, and generating the diffs
02:40<Roest>since i do no trunk stuff and most patches arent mine i just keep them close to a current rev, combine them in packs of 3, then merge them all
02:41<Alberth>you update each patch file to trunk, and then merge them together to construct your patch pak?
02:42<Roest>not always
02:42<Roest>but that's the general idea
02:42<Roest>no point in updating everything if there's just 20 revs between
02:43<Alberth>as long as it merges correctly, I guess
02:43<Roest>anyway this is strange
02:43<Alberth>I see we have a Window constructor, I see
02:43<Alberth>what is strange
02:43<Roest>airport_gui.cpp line 101, this compiled just fine
02:44<Roest>the exact same code in the copy_paste_gui.cpp does not
02:45<Roest>maybe you dont have the same airport_gui.cpp line 101, i see this is modified too
02:46<Roest>gonna find out what this changed to, it's used all over the place
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02:48<Roest>oh damn
02:48<Roest>it's not that line
02:48<Roest>i'm not awake yet i guess
02:48<Alberth>no, it seems line 142/143
02:48<Roest>getting up at 6:45 has its drawbacks
02:49<Roest>that line is ok
02:49<Alberth>I was up at 6:00 already (and it is my last day off, I must be doing something wrong..)
02:50<Roest>if (button < CPW_FIRST_CLICKABLE || !(w = FindWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0)) || w->wndproc != CopyPasteWndProc) {DeleteWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0);
02:51<Alberth>ARGH!!
02:51<Alberth>niet nog een hacky compare tegen een adres van een window event handler!!
02:52<Roest>oh damn, if he falls back to his native language he's angry
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02:52<Alberth>well, it is your patch ;)
02:52<Roest>nah copypaste is frostregens
02:52<Alberth>the same hack was also in build toolbar windows
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02:53<Roest>he probably does it how i do it, look how it's done in other windows and copy the code
02:53<Alberth>we had 3 WC_BUILD_STATION windows (for ships, planes, and trains)
02:54<Alberth>train build compared against its winproc to check it is the right one.
02:54<Alberth>Rubidium fixed that by using a different window_number for each build station window (at least that is what the log said)
02:56<Alberth>r12939
02:56<Alberth>- Window *w = FindWindowById(WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR, 0);
02:57<Roest>looking at the patch right now
02:58<Alberth>how many WC_COPY_PASTE windows exist?
02:59<Roest>just one, looks pretty clear now, just have to add the type in openttd.h and copy the code from the patch
03:00<Alberth>you can simply remove the w->wndproc check then (it should never fail)
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03:02<Roest>or that
03:05<Roest>yea works
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03:13<Benny22Canberra>can anyone send me this damn sample.cat file? haha
03:13<ln>no.
03:15<cjk>google it.
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03:16<cjk>much faster than asking anyone here to squeeze it through their modem line
03:17<Alberth>I would have done that first, before asking
03:17*cjk pats Alberth
03:17<cjk>not everyone is as smart :)
03:18<Alberth>well, apparently, he considers asking in a channel faster than looking for it.
03:18<Roest>cjk this is how it looks correctly http://b.imagehost.org/view/0672/screen2.png
03:19<Alberth>so maybe I am just doing things the wrong way here :P
03:19<cjk>Roest: so you got it working now?
03:19<Roest>yea, not sure if it's a good permanent solution
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03:19<cjk>well, what is good in your opinion?
03:20<Roest>i'm just using alpha test now instead of alpha blending
03:20<Roest>this is ok if the alpha is just binary
03:21<cjk>well now try applying a 50% alpha to the entire image and see if it dims correctly
03:22<cjk>also, or perhaps instead, you might want to wrap the 3d window into its own program
03:22<cjk>to rule out a wx fault
03:22<Roest>i don't want it to dim, i needed to removed the boxes from around the brain area
03:22<cjk>oh
03:22<cjk>if it's just that, you should have looked at asteroids3D, which does just the same
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03:38<SmatZ>hello
03:39<Roest>jo
03:39<Roest>yo
03:39<Roest>lo
03:39<Tefad>ro
03:40<@peter1138>no
03:41<k-man>bo
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03:58<Roest>anyone with forum mod rights here?
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04:01<Roest>is there a trainset that has all freight types in mag levs?
04:09*Roest kills a cricket
04:09<@peter1138>yes
04:09<@peter1138>origengs.grf ;)
04:10<Roest>peter can you do me a favor please?
04:10<Roest>delete the 2nd post in this thread http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37171
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04:16<planetmaker>Hey, Roest, what's wrong with my post??
04:17<Roest>uh why yours?
04:17<planetmaker>delete the 2nd post in this thread http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37171
04:18<planetmaker>nvm. Mixed up browser tabs :P
04:18<Roest>lol
04:19<planetmaker>sorry :) I guess it's good my tea just is ready :P
04:19*Alberth puts book about elementary counting back on the shelf
04:19<Roest>apparently you need something stronger
04:19<planetmaker>Tea lasts longer than coffee :)
04:20-!-peter1138 is now known as petra1138
04:20<planetmaker>lol ^^
04:20<Roest>gender change 4tw
04:21-!-petra1138 is now known as peter1138
04:27<cjk>DND land purchase wtf :p
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04:50<cjk>hm, what directory in ~/.openttd do I need to put new GRFs in?
04:50<SpComb>presumeably data
04:51<Ammler>maybe you need to create it
04:51<cjk>hm I did
04:51<cjk>it tries ~/.openttd/data, but the newgrf dialog does not list any of the GRFs I added
04:52<Ammler>"rescan" the grfs
04:52<Ammler>or which Version of ottd do you use?
04:52<cjk>Ah, I need to add it ;-)
04:52<Ammler>ok :-)
04:53<cjk>meh openttd just crashed after adding all ECS grfs
04:53<Ammler>cjk: did you try it on a running game?
04:54<Ammler>or do you have an error msg?
04:54<cjk>yes it works after a restart
04:54<cjk>afte rhitting "apply" on the newgrf dialog the thing just segfaulted
04:54<cjk>since it works after a restart i'm all happy already :p
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04:54<Ammler>cjk: just have the town vector as first
04:55<cjk>nice nice.
04:56<cjk>hm the sand pit just loses sand even if I am not transporting! :p
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04:56<Roest>it has a hole deep down inside
05:01<cjk>so do you happen to know what hopper to use for sand?
05:02<cjk>i do have the town vector
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05:04<Eddi|zuHause2>i guess this huge warning saying "OTTD may crash if you do this" does have its purpose :p
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05:04<cjk>what, where
05:04<Eddi|zuHause2>if you change newgrfs within a running game
05:05<cjk>i was not in a game, unless the title screen is a game
05:05<Eddi|zuHause2>that should work...
05:05<Eddi|zuHause2>in that case, try to reproduce it ;)
05:05<Alberth>I found a small graphics glitch with the North Americal Renewal Trainset, see http://b.imagehost.org/view/0688/graphic-glitch.png The passenger cars and the engine at the end stick out at the left of the window. Where should this be reported?
05:06*Roest waits for the global warming to arrive
05:06<SmatZ>Alberth: to the newgrf author I would say
05:06<SmatZ>if it works in TTDP
05:06<SmatZ>the same wya
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05:07<Alberth>I don't know whether it works in TTDP, no Win* machine in the building
05:07<Eddi|zuHause2>wine ttdpatchw.exe -y
05:08<Roest>bash: wine: command not found :P
05:09<Alberth>Eddi: Does that work without a Win* OS? (I assume not)
05:10<Ammler>It does: quick howto: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Ttdpatch
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05:15<SpComb>patchman used to develop TTDPatch on OS X
05:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Alberth: wine works without having windows
05:17<Alberth>Eddi: So Ammler told me (thanks!). Getting it installed now.
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05:30<Frostregen>hmm, i can deliver (and get paid for) the same cargo multiple times
05:31<Frostregen>by interrupting the unloading process, after beeing paid
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05:33<SmatZ>Frostregen: in 0.6 ?
05:33<SmatZ>I don't think this was even possible in 0.5
05:33<SpComb>Frostregen: do you get the same amount of cash each time?
05:34<Frostregen>slightly less, as some goods get lost
05:35<Frostregen>i tested it with 12951
05:35<Frostregen>but should work with 0.6 too
05:35<SpComb>and I guess it works in multiplayer as well, then?
05:36<Frostregen>there should be no difference
05:36<SmatZ>Frostregen: what do you mean by 'interrupting the unloading proces'? sending train to depot?
05:36<Frostregen>exactly
05:36<Frostregen>in my first setup i needed to unload/load the cargo at another station
05:37<Frostregen>before getting money for it again
05:38<Frostregen>maybe the payment should be after unloading all cargo?
05:39<Eddi|zuHause2>each cargo package should remember if it has been paid for
05:39<@peter1138>how about not letting the vehicle move when it's unloading
05:40<SmatZ>Frostregen: I really can't reproduce it
05:40<Maedhros>hmm. i thought we'd fixed that at one point (a long time ago)
05:40<Frostregen>i'm creating a savegame...
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05:45<Alberth>Hmm, should anything happen when starting ttdpatch, other than the CPU load jump to 1? :P
05:45<Alberth>Also tried a Windows version, but cannot get it installed
05:46<Alberth>Maybe it doesn't like my AMD-64 CPU :)
05:47<Alberth>(although running Linux in 32bit mode)
05:49<Maedhros>it's worked fine with my amd64 for years ;)
05:50<blathijs>Alberth: Apart from the fact that this is #openttd, and not #ttdpatch, I assume ttdpatch should actually do something when started :-)
05:51-!-Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
05:52<Alberth>blathijs: I expected that too. I'll just report the glitch mentioning that I only tested it with OpenTTD. Tnx all.
05:53<blathijs>Alberth: Uh, I was suggesting you are mixing up projects. Are you having problems with OpenTTD, or with TTDPatch?
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05:54<Frostregen>http://saddam.ath.cx/Urwald_Transport.sav
05:55<Alberth>blathijs: I was trying to test a graphics glitch (http://b.imagehost.org/view/0688/graphic-glitch.png) I discovered yesterday in OpenTTD
05:56<SmatZ>Frostregen: you take cargo
05:56-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@AC8F5A2D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd
05:56<insulfrog>hi
05:56<blathijs>Alberth: So you just mistyped, and nothing is TTDPatch related?
05:56<blathijs>Or you were trying to compare with TTDPatch?
05:57<Frostregen>open up train window, open train orders window, start train, click 2 times on "send to depot" right after payment, skip to next order, wait for unload/load, repeat
05:58<Alberth>blathijs: SmatZ suggested to test it in TTDPatch, to check that OpenTTD code is correct (ie it is a NewGRF problem and not a C++ problem)
05:58<Frostregen>(actually wait till train leaves, before second click on send to depot)
05:58<blathijs>Alberth: Ah, I see
05:59<SmatZ>Frostregen: interesting
05:59<blathijs>Hmm, I should have read back a few lines before asking stupid questions :-)
05:59<@peter1138>lots of grfs do that. it is a grf 'problem'
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06:00<blathijs>What exactly is the glitch? I can't seem to find it in the screenshot
06:00<Eddi|zuHause2>the wagons stick out of the window on the left
06:00<@peter1138>the latest version of nars does not do that
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06:01<blathijs>ah, I see
06:02<Alberth>ok, I'll wait for ottdc grfpack 7.1
06:02<@peter1138>latest version being the prerelease of version 3, heh
06:03<Maedhros>Frostregen: basically, this is just the problem that vehicles don't know not to pick up cargo that they just unloaded
06:03<Frostregen>+it unsets some "this cargo is already paid" marker
06:03<Frostregen>if i try to get directly paid for the cargo at another station, it doesnt work
06:03<Maedhros>that marker is stored by the train, not the cargo
06:04<Maedhros>so when you unload the cargo, the marker gets unset
06:04<Frostregen>ah, ok
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06:05<Frostregen>it is hard to exploit anyway
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06:10<SmatZ>I think you should definitely report it
06:11<SmatZ>but in a way that people won't start exploiting it :)
06:11<SmatZ>well, I don't know
06:11<SmatZ>but it should be fixed
06:12<Ammler>Alberth: not sure, if 7.1 will have new version of NARS
06:12<Frostregen>i think peter1138 approach did sound good. just don't move trains until fully unloaded
06:12<Alberth>Frostgen: now that you mention this problem, I remember weird cargo problems with ECS vector industries where you were just below the limit of what the industry accepted. Unfortunately, cannot really recall the details :(
06:13<SmatZ>Frostregen: I think being paid after cargo unload is a better idea
06:13<SmatZ>but it changes game behaviour...
06:13<Frostregen>SmatZ: this introduces a possible leak of money
06:14<Alberth>Ammler: Ah well, I'll take that chance. Just noticed it by accident
06:14<SmatZ>Frostregen: you can store somewhere how much you should be paid
06:14<Frostregen>hm, right
06:15<SmatZ>or you could store the information that the packet has been unload in the cargo packet
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06:15<Alberth>Would labeling the cargo as originating from the dest station help?
06:15<SmatZ>Alberth: no
06:15<SmatZ>you could unload it then at different station again
06:15<Maedhros>cp->paid_for = false;
06:15<Maedhros>/* When cargo is moved into another vehicle you have *always* paid for it */
06:15<Maedhros>(cargopacket.cpp:209)
06:16<Maedhros>that's probably what causes it (apparently whether the cargo is paid for *is* stored with the cargo now)
06:16<Alberth>What about re-labeling from 'nowhere' (ie invalid station)?
06:16<SmatZ>great :)
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06:17<Frostregen>so the question is, what other things depends on this line?
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06:33<Roest>lol, friend of mine has to fix a software project that was outsourced to india and failed
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06:44<k-man_>is it possible to have a local game with no competitors?
06:45<Roest>why shouldnt it
06:45<ln>Roest: '
06:45<Roest>takes too much time to type it
06:45<Roest>but i make you an offer, here: '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
06:46<Roest>that should be enough for today and tomorrow
06:46<Roest>after that you get more
06:46<ln>Roest: your precious time should not be wasted, but all the hundreds of readers' time should?
06:46<Eddi|zuHause2>not if i throw in anti-apostrophs: ,,,,,,, :p
06:47<cjk>or reverse ones `````````
06:48<@peter1138>pressing ' is slow? :o
06:48<Maedhros>"hundreds of [...] time" ? :-P
06:48<Alberth>In: What precious readers' time were you referring to? :P
06:48<@peter1138>l is not I
06:48<ln>lndeed not
06:49<Eddi|zuHause2>I am not l either
06:51<Alberth>Ah, it's a different letter!
06:54<st6>is the drive thru bus stop slower than the normal?
06:54<Roest>it's faster
06:56<Alberth>st6: Arriving and leaving buses don't get in each others' way
06:57<cjk>Alberth: get a better font
07:02<Eddi|zuHause2>problem with drive through is that you need a separate location for turning the busses
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07:04<cjk>kinda easy
07:04<Alberth>cjk: Well, it's not better, but hopefully less confusing
07:05<Eddi|zuHause2>well, road loops look kinda ugly... it'd look nicer if i could put a (one way) drive through stop on a curve
07:05<cjk>curve o_O
07:06<Roest>^^
07:06<Roest>cur've
07:06<cjk>curvé
07:06<cjk>anyway
07:06<cjk>how would that look like?
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>is that not an english word?
07:07<Roest>don't know, our grammar and spelling cop didn't shout
07:07<Eddi|zuHause2>http://dict.leo.org/?search=curve
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, say i have a road crossing
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>|
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>+-
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>i could put a "curved stop" next to it
07:09<Eddi|zuHause2>|\
07:09<Eddi|zuHause2>+-
07:09<Eddi|zuHause2>where \ is the stop, and only to be used by busses
07:09<Eddi|zuHause2>then the busses could go into the stop, and use the crossing to go back the way they came from
07:11<Roest>http://stinfwww.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~mai03gex/pics/linuxisevil.gif
07:12<SmatZ>:-D
07:13<cjk>well...
07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>wait... we ARE a terrorism cell, right?
07:13<cjk>the fact is they use it because it's more reliable (which is just what you want as a terrorist, no?)
07:14<cjk>if every Qaeda bomb ran with Windows CE, uhm, expect 80% in failures
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>Silence!
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>I kill you!
07:15<cjk>bombiges Wetter heute ...
07:15<Roest>bombig'es
07:15<Eddi|zuHause2>does that even have a proper translation?
07:15<trd>wtb new forum buff: Flame resistance. Start out at 10% and work slowly towards 90%.
07:15<trd>er
07:15<trd>mt
07:16<trd>That was supposed to go to the Anarchy-Online channel.
07:16<Roest>lawl
07:16<Eddi|zuHause2>we totally need that in openttd :p
07:16<Roest>i was going to say the ottd forums are tame why would you need that here
07:17<Roest>AO, there are still people playing that?
07:17-!-Ridayah [~ridayah@137.81.113.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:17<trd>Yes
07:18<trd>And I bet a lot of people will be returning to it when the new GFX engine is launched this fall :)
07:19<Roest>not me, that release put funcom on my (very short) list of publishers i never buy a game from again
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07:19<trd>hehehe
07:19<trd>EA is on my list.. and it's about it. I'm happy I wasn't around for the launch of AO though.
07:20<Roest>that was by far the worst mmo launch i ever played
07:20<trd>I don't doubt it. I heard it was... havoc.
07:21<cjk>Eddi|zuHause2: perhaps "bombastic"
07:21<trd>they're launching Age of Conan in a few weeks... Will be fun to watch how that goes. I think they've learned though.. that game was pushed back for at least two years.
07:21<Roest>guess that lost them quite some customers
07:21*cjk slaps Roest with a Deppenapostroph
07:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12952 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Indenting and codestyle
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07:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12953 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Feature: Open a new viewport when ctrl-clicking on a 'Location' button, a town/station/industry list, or some news items.
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07:39<Noldo>:) that was fast
07:39<Eddi|zuHause2>that sounds cool
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07:41<cjk>i'd rather have it with the middle mouse button than ctrl+click
07:42<cjk>like firefox
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07:47<@orudge>Woo, my DOS-based dedicated server has been playing for around 8 hours (with a bunch of AI players) quite happily. Very slowly (one day is about 8 seconds), but it works. :P
07:48<Roest>nice, a bunch of noai players or oldai?
07:49-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
07:49<@orudge>ldnewai (as in, what was the "new ai" that did road vehicles)
07:49<@orudge>*oldnewai
07:49<cjk>DOS?
07:49<cjk>...
07:49<Maedhros>hmm. newspapers seem to ignore the transparent station signs settings
07:50<@orudge>Yes, DOS :)
07:50<cjk>why o why, o dos!
07:50<@orudge>Why not?
07:50<cjk>oh so it's that masochistic feeling :)
07:50<cjk>to get something to run on the weirdest archs
07:50<SmatZ>Maedhros: newspaper ignore all trnasparency and invisibility settings
07:50<Roest>cjk didn't you know, orudge is also the maintainer of the Z80 port
07:51<@orudge>cjk: well, I wrote an OS/2 port. ;) I also ported OpenTTD to DOS back in early 2004, but that port fell into disuse, so I decided to report it. This time, I got networking working, too :D
07:52<cjk>must be a ram sucker
07:54<@orudge>Well, I had a dedicated server running fine (256x256 map) on a virtual machine with 16MB of RAM. When I tried to load a few newgrfs though, it crashed with an out of memory error.
07:54<Maedhros>SmatZ: oh, ok
07:54<cjk>command.com, 60k. NDIS driver, ?k. TCP stack, 80k.
07:54<trd>Wonder if OTTD works on netbsd. Would be fun to boot a playstation into NetBSD just to play OTTD.
07:54<@orudge>so more is better ;)
07:54<cjk>no way that fits into 640k
07:55<Maedhros>i think netbsd support was committed a few days ago, actually
07:55<@orudge>cjk: obviously, OpenTTD uses DPMI on DOS, it doesn't really care about the low memory area
07:55<@orudge>anyway, the TCP/IP stack is built into OpenTTD (it uses WATTCP). So all that's needed is a packet driver in memory.
07:57<@orudge>FreeDOS 1.0 comes with a whole load of packet drivers, and lots of network-enabled applications. It's quite fun. Maybe OpenTTD will be bundled with a future version of FreeDOS, when our graphics and sound are free. ;)
07:59<cjk>given that most people run Windows or some *nux anyway....
07:59<Roest>'nux
08:00*cjk slaps Roest
08:00<@orudge>Well, yes, "most people" run a more modern OS. But if we can give something to those who still choose to use the likes of DOS or OS/2, then why not? I know at least one user who says they'd find a DOS port of OpenTTD useful, so if anything else, that's one user I've made happy. ;)
08:01<@peter1138>cjk: we have no code at all for middle-mouse button handling
08:01<cjk>some 3 year old with grandpa's 386 :)
08:02<@peter1138>OpenTTD under DOS will rock :D
08:02<@peter1138>can we have a VESA video driver? heh
08:02<cjk>SDL can do vesa output
08:02<cjk>or was it svga..
08:02<@peter1138>SDL does svgalib
08:03<@peter1138>well, used to
08:03<cjk>seems to be the same more or less
08:03<@peter1138>i don't know if it is
08:03<@peter1138>svgalib is not a dos thing, after all
08:03<cjk>I am inclined to believe that SVGA is a card-specific operation, while VESA is that general thing provided by the BIOS+card
08:03<@orudge>peter1138: yes, you'll be able to use VESA
08:04<Roest>and sound is speaker output?
08:04<@peter1138>hmm, yes, sound drivers :o
08:04<@peter1138>GUS support!
08:04<ln>VGA ought to be enough for anyone
08:04<Roest>any'one
08:05<ln>no
08:05<@orudge>video support will be: standard VGA, Mode-X, VESA, VBE/2.0,VBE/3.0, VBE/AF
08:05<cjk>ttd in 320x200? ugh..
08:05<ln>cjk: what are you talking about?
08:05<@orudge>sound support: SB 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, Pro, 16, ESS AudioDrive, Ensoniq Sound System, Windows Sound System
08:05<cjk>"VGA" means 320x200x8
08:06<ln>source for this piece information?
08:06<cjk>DOS games.
08:06<@orudge>cjk: indeed it does. I'd probably recommend 640x480 as a minimum. ;)
08:06<cjk>640x480x4bit is also some sort of VGA, right. But a not so colorful one.
08:06<ln>cjk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg
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08:07<trd>ln beat me to it
08:07<@orudge>and just for good measure - MIDI: Adlib, OPL2, OPL3, SB midi, MPU-401, DIGMID (software samples), AWE32
08:08<@orudge>My intention is to use the Allegro game library for OpenTTD. Allegro can also be used on a bunch of other platforms, but I think we already have ports to most, if not all, of those.
08:08<Gekz>AALIB!
08:08<Gekz>I want OpenTTD in ASCII glory damn itr
08:08<@orudge>(do we have a QNX port?)
08:08<cjk>Gekz: SDL does aalib.
08:08<Gekz>oh goody
08:09<cjk>ln: it's mostly correct, but it is missing the bit depth, which was very important in the early days.
08:09<Gekz>so we're porting ottd to dos
08:09<Gekz>>_>
08:09<SmatZ>orudge: is there any unified interface for sound and video? even when you have a very old VGA card? (without VESA extensions)
08:09<@orudge>porting? it's already been ported, mostly :P
08:09<Gekz>oh dear.
08:09<@orudge>esides, TTD started off on DOS, we may as well port OpenTTD back to TTD's spiritual home :P
08:10<Gekz>NO
08:10<Gekz>KEEP IT AWAY
08:10<@orudge>SmatZ: well, the VESA standards are the closest things to a "unified standard", with VBE/* being newer versions of it
08:10<Gekz>port it to AIX so you can call yourself satanic
08:11<@orudge>as for sound - almost everything is Sound Blaster compatible
08:11<cjk>cga was - in qbasic and LOTS of games (Blues Brothers, Commander Keen) - cga=320x200x2,640x200x2,640x400x2, ega=320x200x4,640x350x4, vga=320x200x8, theother vga =640x480x4,640x400x4, herc=720x576(or so)x2 and svga=640x480x8,800x600x8,...
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08:11<Gekz>svga ftw
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08:13<stillunknown>Doesn't vbe give you access to higher resolutions?
08:13-!-k-man_ [~jason@ppp255-50.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
08:13<stillunknown>eg, non-text modes
08:14<cjk>VBE is VESA :p
08:14<@orudge>Yers
08:14<@orudge>*Yes
08:14<cjk>yer's
08:15<stillunknown>Well, it's a vesa extension iirc.
08:16<@orudge> used to play various Allegro games in resolutions that my CRT didn't really like supporting back in the day - 2048x1536 type things
08:16<cjk>VESA Bios Extensions
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08:17<@peter1138>320x200x8bpp was MCGA/VGA
08:18<cjk>just what I said :p
08:18<@peter1138>(VGA because CGA and EGA couldn't do it, but MCGA was not very common)
08:19<Brianetta>Multiple knifing in Leeds
08:19<cjk>Forking in pidgin.
08:19<Brianetta>I wonder if that would have made a national headline int her US
08:19<Gekz>nope
08:19<Gekz>they're busy bitching about which idiot will win the election
08:19<Gekz>it doesnt matter, you're screwed either way
08:20<Brianetta>They only let US-born Americans become president. I think they should reverse that entirely; only allow foreigners to lead them.
08:20<Gekz>oh man
08:20<Gekz>that would so rock
08:20<@peter1138>but... arnie...
08:21<Gekz>lol
08:21<Gekz>kill him
08:21<Gekz>move on
08:21<cjk>kill bill
08:21<Brianetta>peter1138: He's not foreign
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08:21<cjk>he is?
08:21<Brianetta>No, he's a US citizen
08:22<cjk>but born outside US
08:22<Brianetta>I'm talking totalk foreigners; if they don't speak English, that's better
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08:22<Brianetta>Get some Chinese peasant to take the reigns
08:22<@peter1138>you said US-born, heh
08:22<Brianetta>er
08:22<Brianetta>reins
08:22<Brianetta>No, I stated their rules
08:22<cjk>reigns.
08:22<Brianetta>I said "reverse that entirely"
08:22<Brianetta>cjk: Nope
08:23<Brianetta>reins, as in horse, not reigns, as in what a king does
08:23<Brianetta>You can't take the reigns
08:23<Brianetta>reign is a verb
08:23<Brianetta>Just making that mistake in the first place fills me with shame; I know better.
08:24<Eddi|zuHause2>"Zügel"
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08:27<Gekz>my girlfriend had a dream about me stealing someones wallet lolo
08:27<@peter1138>did you?
08:28<Gekz>no
08:28<Gekz>thats why I lol'd
08:28<Gekz>I don't do that
08:28<Gekz>not any more...
08:34*Roest looks for his wallet
08:35<Gekz>Roest: doesnt put your hand there! That's my e-penis :/
08:35<Gekz>doesnt? wtf
08:35<Gekz>dont*
08:35*Roest gives Gekz two '
08:35<ln>Gekz: the apostrophes
08:35<Gekz>ln: que?
08:36<Gekz>Mi ne komprenas.
08:36<ln>Gekz: '
08:36<Roest>the apostroph cop just got you
08:36<Gekz>ln: si?
08:36<Gekz>my apostrophe key doesnt work
08:36<ln>Gekz: if what?
08:36<Gekz>lo
08:36<Gekz>i just mashed it.
08:36<Gekz>...
08:36<Gekz>fail.
08:37<Gekz>brb
08:37<Roest>lol
08:37<Gekz>lol
08:37<Roest>lo'l
08:37<Gekz>theres so much gunk under that key
08:37*Gekz cleans
08:37<Roest>gunk?
08:37<Gekz>'''''''''
08:37<Gekz>yay!
08:37<Gekz>gunk, crap
08:37<Gekz>dust
08:37<Gekz>dust bunnies
08:37<Roest>gun'k
08:37<Gekz>corpses
08:37<ln>Gekz: in the meanwhile, you can write "does not", "will not", etc.
08:37<Gekz>I shant
08:37<Gekz>OH PWNERED
08:38<Gekz>I shanty
08:38<Roest>blah stupid irc [14:41] [Nickname] Erroneous Nickname
08:39<Roest>i need a forum ignore option
08:39<Roest>someone write me a greasemonkey script plz
08:40<Maedhros>doesn't adding people to your "enemies" list do that for you already?
08:40<Roest>there is an enemies list?
08:40*Maedhros has never tried it, though
08:41*Roest goes looking
08:41<Maedhros>Roest: "Friends and Foes" in the user control panel (if you're using the English translation)
08:41<Roest>nice
08:42<Roest>it works
08:42<Roest>so much better
08:43<Maedhros>argh
08:43<Maedhros>"TTD is counted as abandonware by the original publishers"
08:43<Maedhros>*stab*
08:43<ln>surely
08:44<ln>do they link to the announcement by the original publishers?
08:46<Gekz>ln: counted
08:46<Gekz>not established
08:46<Gekz>and abandonware is a phallacy anyway
08:46<ln>count dracula
08:46<Gekz>it just means noone has the money to sue you if you screw with their code
08:46<Maedhros>err, fallacy ;)
08:46<Gekz>Maedhros: nein
08:46<Roest>phallus
08:47<Roest>count chocula
08:47<Gekz>NEIN
08:47<Roest>http://www.derok.net/countchocula/images/count%20chocula%20box%20old.jpg
08:49*Maedhros is off to lectures
08:49<@peter1138>on a bank holiday :o
08:49<@orudge>cjk: fyi, my network and LFN-enabled FreeDOS install currently uses 61KB of conventional memory, 21KB of upper memory, 362KB of reserved memory, and 1.4MB of extended memory (sitting at command.com). 577KB of conventional free, plenty ;)
08:49*orudge 's lectures are cancelled
08:49*orudge has a practical due in tonight though
08:50<@peter1138>how much does openttd take up?
08:50<@orudge>well
08:50<@orudge>I don't know exactly, but I managed to run a dedicated server in 16MB of RAM (256x256 map) without problems
08:51<@orudge>once I added a chunk of newgrfs, it ran out of memory
08:51<@orudge>I'll have to perform some proper tests when I can
08:51<@peter1138>that figures
08:51<@peter1138>ooh, my bread is starting to smell nice
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08:52<Gekz>peter1138: how many days did you leave it out for
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08:58<@peter1138>Gekz: -30 minutes so far
08:58<Gekz>lol
08:59<Roest>My firewall says there is a virus in the file 'OpenTTDAutoUpdater.exe'. Is that true or not?
09:00<planetmaker>^^ don't frighten me... :S
09:00<Roest>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=36759&start=20
09:01<Roest>nice firewall too, mine dont have virus checks
09:03<SmatZ>Roest: it connects somewhere and downloads an exe, so it may be considered dangerous by antivirus
09:03<@orudge>peter1138: well, openttd itself seems to use 80KB of conventional memory, plus 13.2KB for the DPMI server. Running a 256x256 map, no GRFs, dedicated server uses about 11MB of XMS
09:04<Roest>i was going to answer yes it's true but it's too late already and he should cancel his CC card and telephone subscriptions
09:04<Roest>but then i didnt because of the friendly spirit
09:04<@orudge>making it 1024x1024 seems to use 25MB of XMS
09:05<Eddi|zuHause2>TTO used around 2.5MB i kinda remember
09:05<@orudge>56MB XMS with 2048x2048
09:06<@orudge>it may be using EMS too, potentially, hmm
09:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i never understood the difference in EMS and XMS
09:06<@orudge>ah, well, no, it'll just be the EMS isn't available because the XMS is using it ;)
09:06<Gekz>rofl
09:06<Gekz>my boss just got kicked out of his flat
09:06<Gekz>and the chick that kicked him out told me on msn >_>
09:07<Gekz>this whole situation makes me angry
09:07<Eddi|zuHause2>go ask him for a raise now :p
09:07<SmatZ>:)
09:07<Gekz>hes in another nation
09:07<Gekz>lol
09:08<Eddi|zuHause2>if you do not have an apostrophe key, write out the damn words!
09:08<@peter1138>orudge: so basically it's much like normal then :D
09:09<@orudge>seems to be, no reason it ought to be any different really
09:09<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause2: no
09:09<Gekz>:D
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09:12<insulfrog>hi, how is all? :)
09:12<@orudge>Most splendid
09:12<@orudge>except that I need to go and do some actual academic work instead of hacking around with OpenTTD
09:13<insulfrog>ok :)
09:14-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-176-37.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
09:15<insulfrog>Has anyone used the latest 'MiniN' version of OTTD?
09:15<@orudge>Not in a long time
09:16-!-llugo [lugo@p4FD87E6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
09:17<insulfrog>I have just downloaded it a couple of days back and it includes an 'experimental' version of Path Based Signalling (PBS)
09:17<Roest>isn't the last one rev 9000 something
09:17<insulfrog>no, it is r8928
09:17<@orudge>that was an old version of PBS
09:17<@orudge>take a look at YAPP
09:17<@orudge>it's a new PBS patch
09:17<Roest>8928 :)
09:18<@peter1138>heh, ancient
09:18<Roest>ask orudge for the dos version too
09:18-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm99.epsilon123.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd
09:19<insulfrog>I tried to but apparently, there appears to be something not correct as the OTTD version for that would not compile using Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition
09:20<insulfrog>Let me just sort some stuff out, then I'll explain it all :)
09:20*Roest can't wait to hear it
09:20<@peter1138>unfortunately, miniin is dead
09:21<@peter1138>your statement is a bit like "Has anyone used the latest Windows ME version of Windows?
09:21<Roest>so peter what is it with you and the analogies
09:24<insulfrog>Now, do I need an SVN version of OTTD for the patch to work?
09:24<Roest>most likely
09:25<insulfrog>now, the version that TortoiseSVN checkout gave me is r12954
09:25<insulfrog>(brb)
09:26*Roest waits for the return
09:30<Alberth>Roest: In the mean time, you can prepare a response for the reject he'll get
09:30<Roest>i'm trying to remember what the last problem with yapp was
09:31<Roest>think the rectangle code change
09:31<Roest>or maybe that was paxdest
09:31<@peter1138>something to do with non-uniform stations
09:33<Eddi|zuHause2>easiest would be to tell him to "update" to 12697
09:34<Eddi|zuHause2>(and make sure he's using trunk, instead of any branch)
09:34<Roest>2nd easiest would be using BuildOTTD
09:34<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, my bridge patch for miniin should be lying around somewhere still ;)
09:34<Roest>easiest would be using an already existing binary
09:35<Eddi|zuHause2>that won't help him build it with visual studio :p
09:38-!-elmex [~elmex@e180065100.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:40<Rubidium>Roest: but pointing him to the location where those binaries are is lame ;)
09:41<Roest>oh btw rubidum, what kind of warnings? gcc 4.2.1 gives none
09:41*Roest fails at tab completion
09:42<Rubidium>probably unused variables or empty blocks
09:42<cjk>-Wall -Wformat=2 -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 ... run that
09:42<cjk>then perhaps, -Wredundant-decls too
09:44<Rubidium>that last one gives loads of warnings
09:44<insulfrog>ok, I'm back
09:45<Rubidium>seems it doesn't like compile time 'asserts'
09:46<SmatZ>Roest: for (...); instead of for (...) { }
09:46<SmatZ>gcc 4.3 gives warning for empty body of loops
09:46<insulfrog>now what I was saying
09:46<Alberth>Rubidium: those are inside the compiler :P
09:46-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
09:47<Roest>smatz but that's a construct which is pretty often used, not only by me
09:48<@peter1138>yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
09:48<@peter1138>then it's an explicit empty body
09:48<Alberth>SmatZ: Can't we keep the curly brackets? They are much better noticed than a semi-colon
09:48<@peter1138>Alberth: you read it the wrong way around :)
09:49<Alberth>peter1138: noloc-imes a naht deciton retteb hcum era yehT ?stekcarb ylruc eht peek ew t'naC :ZtamS
09:49<hylje>:o
09:49<insulfrog>Now, I now download the latest patch for 'Yet Another PBS Patch' (YAPP) from you-know-where
09:49<SmatZ>huh Alberth
09:50<SmatZ>[15:48:04] <peter1138> yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
09:50<Roest>insulfrog are insisting in compiling it yourself, if not there's also windows binaries posted in that thread
09:50<Lakie>That would be more logical as its easier to follow.
09:50<Lakie>Even though both are valid.
09:51<Eddi|zuHause2>"warnings" are not about "valid", they are about "people often get this wrong"
09:52<Lakie>Heh, sorry, I've been toding too much c#
09:52<@peter1138>one of the reasons our coding style enforces { } for multiline ifs
09:52<Lakie>(In which null statements are valid but will give warnings)
09:54<Lakie>Without the { } though, only the first instruction would be done with the if...
09:54<hylje>braces? pff.
09:54<@peter1138>Lakie: exactly
09:54-!-FlashFF [~nun@80-193-4-162.cable.ubr05.gill.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
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09:55<@peter1138>one day i shall acquire commit rights to ttdpatch, to clean up its bit of C...
09:56<FlashFF>hello
09:56<Alberth>hai
09:56<Lakie>Hehe
09:56-!-elmex [~elmex@e180075201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
09:56<Lakie>First you would have to write the .diff file or patch.
09:57<@peter1138>write a diff? how insane
09:57<@peter1138>hmm, bee-season
09:58<hylje>B
09:58<Lakie>Errr...
09:58<Lakie>I meant write the changes and generate a diff
09:59<Lakie>Heh
09:59<insulfrog>Now the latest patch is 'OpenTTD-r12934___yapp_r12810_v6_2_svn', bit I don't think that patch is compatible with OTTD build r12954, is it?
09:59<insulfrog>*but
10:02<Lakie>Depends on what it changes and the changes between the revisions.
10:02<insulfrog>hmm...
10:05<insulfrog>I'll try it anyway
10:06*insulfrog backs up the build, then applies the patch
10:06-!-helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd
10:07*insulfrog uses TortioseSVN to apply the patch
10:07<Roest>computer will blow up
10:08*insulfrog now attempt now to compile the build using Visual C++ Express
10:08<Eddi|zuHause2>insulfrog: best you use tortoise to "update" to r12810 first
10:09<Roest>nah the patch he uses is updated for 12934 already
10:10<insulfrog>the build it its curent before I applied the patch
10:10<insulfrog>(tried it earlier)
10:12-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1E4C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:13*insulfrog starts the building process
10:17<Eddi|zuHause2>oh... confusing naming scheme...
10:18*insulfrog discovers there is 'png.h', 'zlib.h' and 'ft2build.h' missing from the project
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>did you try to build openttd without patch first?
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>did you get useful.zip?
10:20*insulfrog tries building his backup
10:20<insulfrog>stand by
10:21*Roest stands by
10:21*Rubidium keeps sitting
10:21<Eddi|zuHause2>there is no use making a "backup", svn does that for you automatically
10:22<Eddi|zuHause2>just use "revert" from the tortoise menu
10:22<insulfrog>I normally back up manually (just in case :p )
10:22<Rubidium>if it is important, then somebody has mirrored your data, otherwise it is not important
10:23<insulfrog>still the same .h files are still missing
10:24<Roest>now are they missing or no entry in the .vcproj files?
10:24<insulfrog>(must be something that visual studio express can't handle)
10:25<Rubidium>insulfrog: have you followed the manual?
10:25*Roest remembers that dilbert comic, engineers don't read manuals
10:26<insulfrog>I did but, I don't think I understood it properly
10:29<insulfrog>I think I missed the files you mentioned :p
10:32*insulfrog downloaded the files and unzips them
10:33<Sacro>you need the .h files in an include\ folder
10:33<Sacro>and the .dll in err
10:33<Sacro>lib\
10:33<insulfrog>cheers Sacro
10:34*insulfrog salutes him :p
10:35<Sacro>i use VS2005Pro myself
10:35<Sacro>i do have 2008pro too
10:35<insulfrog>I use Visual Express (since its free :p )
10:36-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
10:37<Lakie>Sacro: .h in include\ and .lib in lib\, and finally the dll in the excutable's folder in one of the folders of the PATH environment variable.
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10:40<Mihai>#openttd.dev
10:40<Mihai>what's the channel for dev server ?
10:41-!-Mihai is now known as ropiku
10:41<@Belugas>there is none, as far as i know
10:41<@Belugas>you have this channel, of course
10:42<Rubidium>dev server?
10:42<Rubidium>what dev server?
10:42<ropiku>sorry, I mistaken with openttdcoop
10:43<planetmaker>ropiku: #openttdcoop.dev
10:43<ropiku>thank you, joined
10:43-!-Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d04c3fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
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10:46<FlashFF>Question: is there a openttd build that is a pure dedicated server? ie all of the extra stuff taken out and nicely optimised?
10:47<Roest>nope
10:47<FlashFF>dammit
10:47<Ammler>heya, tried to make desync-debug build: http://paste.openttd.org/5394
10:47<Ammler>FlashFF: you could compile it self
10:47<Ammler>but the size doesn't really matter
10:48<FlashFF>i tore out all the extra stuff once, and made a nice server that auto reset and all that malarky, but due to a horrible hd fail i lost it all. Back to square 1 i suppose lol
10:48<Ammler>and you won't have performance advantages
10:48<insulfrog>are you sure that the dll(s) came with the openttd-useful download?
10:48<FlashFF>yeah i was basically looking for a raw build i could alter
10:49<FlashFF>My old version i added build in mysql support and a scheduler and such but the longest part of the whole thing was stripping out the extra bits
10:50<FlashFF>note to self: backup more often
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10:52<Ammler>FlashFF: well, you should also post your diffs to share such things
10:53<Ammler>then you would have automatically a backup :P
10:54<@peter1138>aarrggghhhhh
10:54<@peter1138>it's too hot!
10:54<Roest>it's too cold, sorry
10:54<@peter1138>wrong
10:55<Roest>no you
10:55<@peter1138>it's too hot
10:55<FlashFF>lol dunno how well the diff woulda worked, i really ripped it apart
10:55<Roest>that whole global warming thing is a lie
10:55<FlashFF>but the plan was to share it once it worked well enough
10:56-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
10:57<FlashFF>bugger
10:57<FlashFF>the world hates me
10:57<hylje>bugger all
10:58<FlashFF>my VirtualPC linux install is borked by the looks of it
10:58<Roest>http://stinfwww.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~mai03gex/pics/button.jpg
10:59<Ammler>HEEEELLLLPPP!
10:59-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
10:59<@peter1138>it's about 35°C... in my greenhouse
11:00<@peter1138>with the door open
11:00<Roest>lol
11:00<Roest>i can imagine you sitting in the green house with a laptop
11:00<@peter1138>the other thermometer says it's 25°C
11:00<@peter1138>no, i have legs
11:01<@peter1138>http://poststuff5.entensity.net/050508/roof.jpg
11:01<Roest>http://stinfwww.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~mai03gex/pics/ceiling_cat.jpg
11:03<insulfrog>hmm... something is not right
11:04<Roest>same not right as earlier or something different not right?
11:04<insulfrog>where do you put these 'include' and 'lib' folders?
11:04<Roest>if it's the latte you could say you're making progress
11:04<Roest>+r
11:05<insulfrog>(in your uncompiled OTTD folder or in your Visual C++ folder?)
11:06<Sacro>latter
11:07<insulfrog>visual c++ folder
11:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12955 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r12858): compilation with desync debug was broken
11:09<Sacro>why do i have VJ#
11:09-!-ropiku [~chatzilla@89.39.35.66] has joined #openttd
11:10<insulfrog>don't know, perhaps you was studying Java :)
11:11<Sacro>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC
11:11<Sacro>is where i put them
11:11*Sacro fancies some simsig
11:12<insulfrog>sorted
11:12<insulfrog>now, I have to figure out where it is compiled to
11:13<Roest>that's usually easy to find out
11:13<insulfrog>060 beta 5?
11:14<Roest>unlikely
11:19<insulfrog>I found the exe in the debug folder :)
11:19<cjk>see, msvc is so complex
11:21-!-Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-176-37.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:21<insulfrog>I know that there are files to copy from the original TTD, but other than that, is there anything else to do?
11:22<ropiku>insulfrog: no
11:22-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
11:25<insulfrog>(no language packs?)
11:26<insulfrog>hmm...
11:27<cjk>included.
11:27<Sacro>heh
11:27<Sacro>you need to move the lang/*.lng
11:27<cjk>just $PACKAGEMANAGER install openttd
11:27<Roest>./configure make
11:28<cjk>./configure: unknown argument: make
11:28<Roest>crap
11:28<blathijs>Just ./configure
11:28<cjk>at least do it the right way
11:28<blathijs>and then make
11:28<cjk>./configure --install-dir=$PWD/rt && make install;
11:28<Roest>now i know why it's not working
11:29<cjk>Roest: www.doingitwrong.com
11:29<Roest>lol i like that site
11:32<Sacro>./configure &; make
11:32<blathijs>Sacro: That's a bad idea
11:32<blathijs>either do && or ;
11:32<Sacro>blathijs: depends how quick the configure is :p
11:32<blathijs>Now it will configure in the background while starting to make immediately :-)
11:32<cjk>Sacro: syntax error
11:32<Sacro>yeah true
11:32<cjk>so it's not really an idea that eats your disk
11:33<Sacro>./configure & ; make
11:33<cjk>still syntax error
11:33<cjk>it's _either_ & or ;
11:33<blathijs>Bash doesn't grok empty statements then?
11:33<cjk>well, then _write_ an empty statement the right way
11:33<cjk>./configure & :; make
11:33<cjk>but then again, ./configue & make is just faster (and wrong btw)
11:34<cjk>running make while configure is not finished => www.doingitwrong.com
11:34<Sacro>http://www.internetisseriousbusiness.com/
11:35<cjk>http://youtube.com/watch?v=7vNsDhFaKUk
11:36<cjk>and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzgEi_u9-88
11:36<Sacro>don't hassle the hoff
11:36<Sacro><3 collegehumour
11:37<cjk>hasselhoff is the better rickroll :p
11:37-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-225-220.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
11:43<insulfrog>ok, I have got it to run
11:43<Roest>grats
11:43<insulfrog>(finally)
11:43<insulfrog>now, testing to make sure everything is working
11:45<insulfrog>wait a minute
11:45*Roest gets his PBS for dummies
11:45<insulfrog>there is a file that is not readable
11:46<insulfrog>but the debug window does not say
11:47<insulfrog>(there must be something missing)
11:47*Roest takes his grats back
11:47<insulfrog>lol
11:47<insulfrog>:p
11:49<insulfrog>it is playable
11:50-!-GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:51*insulfrog wonders what file could be missing
11:55<Sacro>cjk: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1806407
11:55<insulfrog>any ideas what file could be missing?
11:55*Roest looks into crystal ball
11:56-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499C1C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:57*Sacro scratches crystal ball
11:58-!-GoneWacko [GoneWacko@86-60-155-109-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #openttd
11:58<Roest>it's cloudy
11:59<Roest>and has a scratch
12:04<+glx><Sacro> you need to move the lang/*.lng <-- no you need to move the exe in bin
12:05-!-Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1D12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
12:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r12956 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Code-style application on switch-case aligment
12:06<insulfrog>cheers (gives everyone a thumbs up)
12:06*insulfrog goes and tests it
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12:12<insulfrog>now, according to the YAPP thread, there is a 'patch' option, which allows you to turn on PBS signals and it is located under the 'construction' tab
12:12<Sacro><3 yapp
12:13<insulfrog>(YAPP = Yet Another PBS Patch)
12:13<Sacro>i know
12:13<Sacro>i've been playing OpenTTD for years
12:13<Sacro>since 0.3.6 iirc
12:13<insulfrog>I cannot seem to find that option
12:13<Sacro>i don't recall that one
12:14<@Belugas>first contact i had with OpenTTD was with 0.3.4
12:14<Sacro>Belugas: yes, i might have used 0.3.4
12:14<@Belugas>a few weeks after, 0.3.6 was out
12:15-!-lolEee [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
12:15<insulfrog>Sacro: its here where it says it: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36107 (first post)
12:16-!-lolEee is now known as loldragon
12:20<insulfrog>hmm...
12:29-!-Volley [~worf@84.119.65.133] has quit []
12:40<insulfrog>to get PBS signals, no debut that I manually need to add 2 lines in the openttd.cfg file
12:43<@peter1138>no you don't
12:44<@peter1138>and doubt is not spelled debut
12:45<insulfrog>o...k...
12:48<insulfrog>then how do you get PBS signals to work then?, I've applied the patch, built OTTD, now what?
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13:07<insulfrog>I think I have REALLY missed something here...
13:08<Progman>enable them in the settings
13:08<Progman>there are new patch options
13:08<Progman>first one is "show reserved tracks" which should be on
13:09<Progman>if you dont have such an option you haven't build it properbly
13:12-!-mabako [~mabako@V1237.v.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
13:12<mabako>I wonder, could anyone explain me why my self-compiled linux server is unable to load any savegames, but the windows client (with vs2005 or buildottd) can load them fine?
13:13<insulfrog>wait a minute..., I think I forgotten something
13:14<@Belugas>mabako : it's very hard to answer. We do not even kow what you've changed in your sources
13:14<Sacro>lack of zlib
13:14<@Belugas>nor the error message ou had
13:14*Sacro wins
13:15<mabako>well, i want to use something like the shared tracks patch for a more recent version (r12935), and have changed the feerder_share line in cargopacket.cpp to the following:
13:15<mabako> SLE_CONDVAR(CargoPacket, feeder_share[0], SLE_INT64, 0, 95),
13:15<mabako> SLE_CONDARR(CargoPacket, feeder_share, SLE_INT64, 8, 96, SL_MAX_VERSION),
13:16<mabako>and i just get (when starting the server with -g)
13:16<mabako>Game Load Failed
13:16<mabako>File not readable
13:16<mabako>dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting
13:17<mabako>I've changed the savegame-version to 96 also, and I've no idea what might be the problem now
13:18-!-Chicago_Rail_Authority [~somewhere@c-68-40-40-232.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
13:18<insulfrog>ok, I 'think' I have got it, just need to test (don't celebrate too soon :p )
13:20<insulfrog>if all goes well, I might play something else, like SimSig :D
13:20<Sacro><3 SimSig
13:21<insulfrog>anyway, with this new PBS goes well, we can easily replicate several areas of SimSig :)
13:21<insulfrog>(since they don;t use pre-signals :p )
13:21<Sacro>insulfrog: yes, i got bored and replicated Kings Cross
13:21<insulfrog>*don't
13:22<Sacro>though i get upset at the lack of ablilty to chose between a crossover and a single/double slip
13:22*insulfrog thinks his bad fast typing is getting to the best of him, lol
13:25<insulfrog>i got to go, bye :)
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13:26<@Belugas>mabako, exact same code on both machine? one works not the other? then, it might be related to what Sacro told you
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13:26<Phantasm>Hiya Belugas.
13:26<@Belugas>best way to know : revert the linux version, try clean build
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13:27<@Belugas>hey Phantasm
13:28<mabako>I reverted it and applied the patch afterwards really
13:28<@Belugas>no no no...
13:28<@Belugas>i mean, revert it totally,
13:28<@Belugas>built clean
13:28<@Belugas>and test ckean
13:28<@Belugas>clean
13:29<mabako>erm... I checked out with svn, then copied the file into another dir and applied the patch there
13:29<mabako>and btw...
13:29<mabako>ii zlib1g 1.2.3-13 compression library - runtime
13:29<mabako>ii zlib1g-dev 1.2.3-13 compression library - development
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13:29<@Belugas>have you ever tried a clean build before?
13:29<mabako>how do i build it 'clean'?
13:30<@Belugas>import from svn, do not apply any patch, compile and run
13:30<mabako>actually not
13:30<@Belugas>YOu may have to translate to linux wording, as i only compile using msvc
13:30<mabako>not on linux at all
13:30<@Belugas>you may try that first :)
13:31<mabako>I'll have a look
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13:42<mabako>Belugas: it works with a clean build, i can save & load games afterwards fine
13:42<@Belugas>thus, there is something that is broken on the patch
13:43<@Belugas>and it means that Sacro has lost!
13:48<mabako>http://mabako.net/sharedtracks.diff
13:50<dih># an the all go hand in hand...
13:59<@Belugas>+ SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, shared_length, SLE_UINT32, 82, SL_MAX_VERSION), <---- 82 might be a little too low...
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14:01<insulfrog>I'm back :)
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14:03<@Belugas>what the heel is that stuff been done on depot_gui.cpp???
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14:03*Belugas resumes some real work...
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14:20<mabako>Belugas: that's there so you can sell your vehicle in other player's depots
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14:22<@Belugas>82 is not the starting version number where the shared_lenght variable is declared?
14:22<@Belugas>if so, it is wrong
14:23<mabako>i see
14:24<mabako>I should have a look, but i'm not quite certain whetever that is really the reason why i can't load the games I've saved with the same server-executeable (savegame-version being 96) before
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14:25<@Belugas>i dion;t know, mabako. It's just someting taht seems wrong for me
14:25<@Belugas>i cannot try nor compile (nor want to) the patch, just looking at it
14:26<mabako>I'll give it a try
14:26<mabako>it was sure wrong
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14:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12957 /trunk/ (config.lib src/network/network_client.cpp src/saveload.cpp): -Codechange: do not misuse snprintf when you just want to copy a string, also use DEBUG instead of fprintf in one case.
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14:34<mabako>the server still can't read the saved files, however if i save the file at my windows pc locally, i can load it fine
14:35<mabako>oh, might actually work now
14:37*insulfrog is on #openttdcoop server
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14:39<Dotted>is there anyway to upgrade all your trains to a different engine in one go?
14:39<mabako>click on the train icon (vehicle list)
14:40<mrfrenzy>yes, look at the bottom of the window that shows all your trains
14:40<mabako>in the bottom, there's this dropdown with 'replace vehicles'
14:41<Dotted>ah lol, thx
14:42<ln>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3876396.ece
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15:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12958 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Allocate sprites reserved by GRM in advance of 'Action 1' sprites, giving much less chance of GRM reservation failure if lots of NewGRF sets are loaded.
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15:24<Wolf01>hello
15:25<SmatZ>hello Wolf01
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15:45<Pinchiukas>damn I can't find the thread with the original ttd graphics, anyone can help?
15:46<SmatZ>Pinchiukas: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=37347 ?
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15:46<@peter1138>:D
15:46<Pinchiukas>SmatZ: I was talking about the original ttd graphics
15:47<Pinchiukas>were new open source graphics made already?
15:47<@peter1138>for original data files, try a local shop
15:47<@peter1138>or ebay
15:47<Pinchiukas>someone gave me a link to a post on the forum
15:47<Sacro>Prof_Frink knows by heart
15:47*Tefad coughs
15:47<Pinchiukas>I can no longer find it though
15:47<@peter1138>or look for a place to buy on google
15:49<@orudge>Pinchiukas: that link was removed
15:49<@orudge>well
15:49<@orudge>there was a link removed yesterday
15:49<@orudge>with the graphics uploaded
15:50<Pinchiukas>I just found a link and downloaded it
15:50<@Belugas>THIEF!
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15:50<Pinchiukas>hey, I haven't used it yet
15:50<Pinchiukas>does that make me a thief already?
15:50<Sacro>yes
15:51<Pinchiukas>aw, man!
15:51*Sacro drops a Belugas on Pinchiukas
15:51<Pinchiukas>lol
15:51<Pinchiukas>I guess I should go turn myself in
15:51<Sacro>yes you should
15:52<Pinchiukas>by the way, today I noticed that there are a lot of transport simulation games out there, can somebody tell me which are more popular/better? :)
15:52<@Belugas>better? OPENTTD!!!
15:52<Tefad>Pinchiukas: troll.
15:52<Tefad>get back under your bridge ; )
15:52<@peter1138>i've only played locomotion and ttd
15:53<@peter1138>so that's hardly a good sample
15:53<Pinchiukas>Tefad: I don't know... people say I shouldn't, why would I listen to you?
15:53<Pinchiukas>peter1138: what were your impressions?
15:53<Pinchiukas>I looked at some 3d game videos, looks repulsive
15:53<mabako>imo you don't really need a 3d interface
15:54<@peter1138>of locomotion? not very good
15:54<@peter1138>sure, nice bridges
15:54<@peter1138>but that's about it
15:54<Pinchiukas>mabako: I think it's a matter of taste
15:54<Pinchiukas>and sometimes it would be really nice if I could turn the view in openttd 90 degrees to see better
15:55<@Belugas>not at all, 3d is a vision, an approach... not to mention code been twisted in and out
15:55<mabako>turning it 90° doesn't make it 3d
15:55<Pinchiukas>I know, that's why I said it
15:56<Pinchiukas>that's what makes it easy to implement
15:56<Pinchiukas>...somewhat :)
15:56*Sacro can turn OpenTTD 90 degrees
15:56<@Belugas>hate 3d, makes the game one step closer to reality
15:56<@Belugas>sucks
15:56<@Belugas>prrrrrrrt
15:56<Pinchiukas>rolling your display doesn't count Sacro
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15:56<Sacro>Prof_Frink: damn
15:56<Pinchiukas>Belugas: try tetris or pong, it's as far from reality as it gets
15:56<@Belugas>those i like
15:57<@Belugas>chess too...
15:57<trd>Play ASCII pong on IRC and lose.
15:57<Pinchiukas>lol
15:57*Belugas has a chess game on his cellphone
15:57<Pinchiukas>so openttd hasn't got a complete graphics set yet?
15:58<@Belugas>has it?
15:59<Pinchiukas>so?
16:00<@peter1138>nope
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16:04<Pinchiukas>aww
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16:11<Wolf01>wow, traffic lights works like a charm with timetables, vehicles always have different late times :O
16:11<Wolf01>hey a pikachu!
16:11<Wolf01>ehm... not
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16:14<JelloX>GOTTA CATCH EM ALL
16:14<Roujin>be sure to drop me a note if you have any suggestion or bug report regarding the traffic lights :)
16:15<Roujin>good night
16:15<Sionide>ohh, are traffic lights in the nightly builds?
16:15<Wolf01>no
16:15<Wolf01>I just compiled the patch
16:15<Wolf01>gn Roujin
16:15<Sionide>likely to be some time soon? sounds like a "big thing"
16:15<@peter1138>unlikely
16:16<Sionide>i lurk here most of time, till a "big thing" hits the nightlies then i get into it and start playing a huge map to death
16:16<JelloX>traffic lights? sweet
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16:21<@orudge>Nobody here wanting to come to the TT meet? Feel free to vote: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36571
16:21<@orudge>but only vote if you're going to actually come :P
16:23<Wolf01>London? too far away
16:23<@Belugas>Anyone would like to help organising a meeting in Montreal at the same date?
16:23<Wolf01>Anyone on my garden?
16:23<Rubidium>hmm
16:23<Rubidium>what would be cheaper?
16:23<@Bjarni>England itself is too far away
16:23<@Bjarni>so is Montreal
16:23<blathijs>Hmm, if it wasn't for the North Sea, I might consider :-)
16:23<Rubidium>a ticket to Montreal or England?
16:23<blathijs>Rubidium: Dunno, might be so much different
16:23<Rubidium>blathijs: E'de?
16:23<@Bjarni>Wolf01's garden sounds nice though
16:24<blathijs>Rubidium: Sounds fun :-)
16:24<@peter1138>hmm, £296 return to montreal
16:24<@peter1138>ooh
16:24<@peter1138>£215!
16:24<@peter1138>er... tomorrow
16:24<@Bjarni>I can go to Heathrow for like £50
16:25<@Bjarni>but I will not use planes that cheap
16:25<@Belugas>i can go to montreal for... nothing!
16:25*blathijs can go to sleep for free, so I think I'll just do that
16:25<blathijs>Good night everyone :-)
16:25<@Belugas>:)
16:25<@Bjarni>also getting to London might not be the expensive part of a London trip
16:26<Sionide>hmm
16:26<@peter1138>don't worry, orudge will provide women
16:26<@orudge>Getting to London from Europe can generally be done quite cheaply
16:26<Tefad>womens!
16:26<@orudge>getting around London, maybe not so cheap :P
16:26<@orudge>Yes, both real and inflatable
16:26<SmatZ>did I hear "women"?
16:26<@orudge>book in advance.
16:26<@peter1138>or was it sacro dressed up?
16:27<Sionide>who's played ottd on a train before?
16:27<@orudge>/me
16:27<@orudge>/me
16:27<@orudge>bah
16:27<Sionide>/me
16:27<@orudge>I have.
16:27<Sionide>:D
16:27<@orudge>well
16:27<@orudge>I've not played OpenTTD "properly" on a train
16:27<Sionide>i designed the station we stopped at for ages.. by looking around and making it
16:27<@orudge>I've played normal TTD (or TTDPatch) on a train, and a plane, and a boat
16:28<DaleStan>Just missing a bus.
16:28<@orudge>Buses are too cramped
16:28<@Bjarni>what will actually happen at such a meeting?
16:28-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:28<@orudge>Bjarni: well, last year
16:28<@orudge>we talked
16:28<@orudge>ate
16:28<@orudge>drank
16:28<@orudge>some people played some TTD
16:28<@orudge>this year, Andel is organising some games
16:28<@orudge>but otherwise, I imagine it'll be much the same
16:28<@orudge>"socialising"
16:28<@Bjarni>will there be women?
16:28<Tefad>IRC in person.
16:29<@orudge>there were women last year, Bjarni
16:29<@orudge>although, they're both married now
16:29<@orudge>so bad luck
16:29-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1E4C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:29<@Bjarni>Helen showed up?
16:29<Sionide>i could persuade my gf to tag along.. "yes do you wanna come on a day trip to london with me?"
16:29<Rubidium>maybe ask Karen!
16:29<Sionide>"oh these guys? i don't know them!"
16:29<@orudge>Bjarni: Helen and Andel's then-girlfriend Natasha
16:30<@Bjarni>I think I will pass on this trip
16:30<@orudge>who that very night became pregnant with their child, much to GoneWacko's amusement (seeing as he was in the house at the time)
16:30<@orudge>Rubidium: maybe ;)
16:30<@orudge>Sionide: heh
16:30<Sionide>i could meet GoneWacko.. that'd be weird.
16:30<@orudge>well, last year, things seemed fine enough, we weren't too scary
16:30<Sionide>and orudge as well actually.. odd.
16:31<@orudge>:P
16:31<Sionide>to me you are just words on a screen, damnit.. don't shatter my illusions
16:31<Rubidium>last (O)TTD I was at was kinda small
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16:31<Sionide>well i will consider it when i know what date it's gonna be
16:31<Rubidium>+meet
16:31<@orudge>Sionide: feel free to vote on your available days!
16:31<@Bjarni>I just realised something.... how do you tell the difference between oven and Owen when saying out the words loud?
16:31<@orudge>if you're actually going to come
16:32<@orudge>Bjarni: er, we speak English
16:32<@orudge>and not foreignese :P
16:32<@orudge>w = double-you
16:32<@orudge>v = vee
16:32-!-mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
16:32<Tefad>DOUBLE-V
16:32<Tefad>en francais
16:32-!-mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
16:32<Sionide>w = "wuh" sound
16:32<Tefad>except in german
16:32-!-Sionide is now known as oven
16:33<oven>lol
16:33<Tefad>volkswagon is funny ; )
16:33*Rubidium turns the oven to 300 K
16:33<Sacro>brr cold
16:33<Tefad>aww, not over 9000
16:33<oven>K!
16:33-!-oven is now known as Sionide
16:33*Sionide jumps out
16:33<@Belugas>quiche time!
16:33<@Bjarni><Tefad> except in german <-- it was so funny when we had a German professor lecturing in maths and he had to talk about two variables called v and w (he lectured in Danish)
16:33<@Belugas>K?
16:33<Tefad>isn't 300K like... room temperature
16:33<Rubidium>not from oven (kinda chilly)
16:34<@Bjarni>yes he did call w for v and stopped when he reached v right after that
16:34<Rubidium>26.85 degrees Celsius
16:34<Rubidium>or 80-ish degrees Fahrenheit
16:34<@Bjarni>more than 20°C is kinda hot
16:34<Sionide>so it was 396K here in the UK today!
16:34<Tefad>yeah, room tepmperature
16:34<Tefad>wow wtf
16:34<Sionide>erm
16:34<Sionide>296* also
16:34<@Bjarni>room temperature should be around 18°C
16:35<Rubidium>Bjarni: depends heavily on the country
16:35<@Bjarni>hotter rooms makes you less efficient and wastes energy
16:35<Tefad>depends on how much money you have.
16:35<Tefad>wastes energy?!
16:35<Rubidium>room temperature in Japan is 27-ish
16:35<Tefad>if i didn't pump the heat outside it'd be like.. crazy hot in here
16:35<Rubidium>25 degrees in trains (yes, they have thermometers in the trains)
16:36<@Bjarni>Rubidium: with what outdoor temperatures?
16:36<@peter1138>oh bjarni is a *one*
16:36<@peter1138>oven / owen indeed
16:36<Tefad>18C is brrrrrr
16:36<Tefad>27 is tolerable
16:36<@Bjarni>I didn't knew that brrrrrr means fine :/
16:37<@Bjarni>well you learn something new every day
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16:37<Tefad>20C is what i generally use
16:37<Tefad>unless i'm poor
16:37<@Belugas>yeah, we, nordic people, have thick skins who can bare colder temps
16:37<Tefad>then it drops to 18C or so
16:37<Tefad>i also have a wife from southern US
16:37<@peter1138>20 is uncomfortable
16:37<@Bjarni><Tefad> 27 is tolerable <-- I would get almost naked and lie on the bed (with no blanket or anything) and wait for the temperature to stop
16:37<Tefad>who's acceptable temperature range is a small band within my own.
16:37<ln>Bjarni!
16:38<@peter1138>27... i'd die
16:38<@Bjarni>and hope that it drops before I melt
16:38<Rubidium>Bjarni: between -10 and 25 degrees
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16:38<Rubidium>Celsius ofcourse
16:38<Tefad>it's at least 25C in here right now
16:39<@Belugas>-25(no winds) +37(strong winds) is bareble
16:39<@Bjarni>we used to have 22°C in the trains... now they added aircondition so you have to wear more cloth inside the trains than outside during mid summer
16:39<Tefad>don't care to waste money on moving the heat out.
16:39<@Bjarni>like you should wear a jacket in the train but only in the train
16:39<@orudge>then you get outside the train and realise how bloody hot it is
16:39<@Bjarni>now that's silly
16:39<@orudge>I had that when I was at some government office in Brazil
16:39<@orudge>was quite normal outside
16:40<@orudge>then went inside with the air conditioning
16:40<@orudge>came out an hour later and was sweltering
16:40<@peter1138>i have that in my car...
16:40<Tefad>i have that in my house.
16:40<Tefad>; )
16:40<@orudge>my car is a bit less advanced than peter1138
16:40<@orudge>'s
16:40<@orudge>well, it was
16:40<@orudge>I don't know what car I will have in June :o
16:40<Tefad>27C with very low humidity is quite tolerable
16:40<@Bjarni>my cooling device is based on holes in the walls that can be opened and closed as needed
16:40<@Bjarni>those are called windows
16:40<Tefad>i grew up with 27C cooling in summer
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16:41<Tefad>though it wasn't so low humidity : (
16:41<Tefad>Bjarni: those would be heating devices here.
16:41<Tefad>and we try to keep them barred up.
16:41<Wolf01>'night
16:41<ln>Tefad: 27 coulombs?
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16:41<@Bjarni>they work specially well when you open one in each end of the room
16:41<Tefad>no, i don't have time to write the deg symbol
16:42<Tefad>nor patience to figure out the deg-C symbol
16:42<Tefad>nor am i going to convert everything to kelvin to avoid needing deg all together.
16:42<@Bjarni>Tefad: alt+q
16:42<@peter1138>°C is usually enough
16:42<Tefad>that closes the window.
16:42<Tefad>no wait
16:42<Tefad>it puts me at window 11
16:42<@Bjarni>then get a mac :P
16:42<@orudge>20℃
16:42<Tefad>fuck macs
16:42<@orudge>I wouldn't do that, Tefad
16:42<@peter1138>yes, there's ℃ too
16:42<@orudge>gets rather messy
16:43<Tefad>the context is temperature
16:43<ln>orudge: i'm pretty sure that's one of the backwards-compatibility unicode characters that are not supposed to be used.
16:43<Tefad>27C is easily seen as a temperature in this context
16:43<@Bjarni>Tefad: fucking a disk drive or optical drive might be bad for your member
16:43<@peter1138>Bjarni... grow up?
16:43<Sacro>peter1138: seconded
16:43<Tefad>if we were talking about electronics AND cooling, then sure i could see the need for specifying degrees.
16:43<@Bjarni>at school there were jokes about a certain guy who should be in love with his computer
16:44<@orudge>ln: well, I'd usually use U+00B0 + 'C' rather than U+2103
16:44<Tefad>yeah, the deg-c symbol is backward compatibility from asia i think
16:44<@Bjarni>and there were a story about him fucking his disk drive
16:44<Tefad>
16:44<@Bjarni>I don't think he did so though
16:44<@peter1138>nobody cares
16:45<Sacro>*plonk*
16:47<Maedhros>hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ?
16:47*Maedhros wishes he'd noticed that they didn't *before* building that harbour...
16:47<Tefad>lol.
16:50<Rubidium>Maedhros: "Maedhros' PBI aware fuel oil carrying ship set"?
16:51<Maedhros>hehe
16:51<Maedhros>yeah, i guess i'll have to start delving into the murky world of cargos
16:53<@Belugas>diving... murky...
16:53<@Belugas>loves the sound of that...
16:53*Belugas splouches
16:54<@peter1138>feh, just set a refit mask of (uint32)-1 ;)
16:55<+glx>that's MAX_UINT32
16:55<@peter1138>feh, just set a refit mask of MAX_UINT32 ;)
17:07-!-Holzberger [~Holzberge@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
17:09<Holzberger>Heya All, I have a question for the developpers of OTTD, or those who can also answer my question... Are the developpers currently working on toll booths? Or are there plans to start soon?
17:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12959 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't assume no production when the first produced cargo is invalid in industries directory
17:09<+glx>Holzberger: no and no
17:10<Holzberger>Do you recall if someone did ever do something with toll booth (and I dont refer to someone who made a louzy drawing?)
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17:17<mabako>my implentation of shared tracks uses waypoints as kind of tollports atm
17:18<mabako>thought that's bad because you can't have multiple tiles - one waypoint
17:19<mabako>for getting cash, it's fine however
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17:34<Holzberger>hmmm mabako... I see your tread now... Maybe it is nice to see it develop... Thx for the answers btw :)
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17:34<mabako>I've not even created a thread on the forums
17:36<mabako>and tbh, I wouldn't know how how i could 'suggest' the pathfinder to find a waypoint which is multiple tiles large
17:37<mabako>or.. pretends to be, and where every waypoint has a pointer to the next/prev. waypoint in order
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17:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12960 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: handle return values of (some) file system related functions.
17:59-!-Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
18:03<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12961 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Codechange: store the type of savegame we are loading in a global variable
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18:22<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r12962 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r12961): forgot one break
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18:26<Ammler>[22:47] <Maedhros> hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ? <-- doesn't newships carry everything?
18:27<Ammler>oh, just left
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18:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r12963 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp network/network_client.cpp): -Fix (r12960): loading some NewGRFs could cause an infinite loop.
18:37<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
18:37<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 53 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I don't think he did so though
18:37<Sacro>hmmm
18:37<SmatZ>do you miss him?
18:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12964 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rewrite callback 37 related code so it will be easier to add supported windows
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18:42<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12965 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: add support for callback 37 in industries directory window
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18:43<Sacro>SmatZ: yes
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18:48<@peter1138>hm
18:48<@peter1138>i don't miss bjarni
18:48<@peter1138>i miss yapp
18:49<Sacro>I MISS YAPP TOO
18:49<Sacro>but ooh yay
18:49<Sacro>Frostregen_!
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18:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12966 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Update: apply english.txt changes from r12965 to other languages
18:58<@Bjarni> <peter1138> i don't miss bjarni <-- there is no reason to miss me when I'm around ;)
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19:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r12967 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r12966): my lang update script failed
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22:26<@Belugas>damned
22:28<Sacro>oh?
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22:38<@Belugas>yeah indeed
22:38<@Belugas>freaking action 06
22:39<Sacro>heh
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---Logclosed Tue May 06 00:00:03 2008