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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-15

---Logopened Thu May 15 00:00:13 2008
---Daychanged Thu May 15 2008
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03:00<Eddi|zuHause># Guten Morgen, liebe Sorgen
03:00<Eddi|zuHause># seid ihr auch schon alle da
03:00<Eddi|zuHause># habt ihr auch so gut geschlafen
03:01<Eddi|zuHause># na dann ist ja alles klar
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03:29<Ammler>good morning all
03:30<Ammler>another seg fault with window system
03:30<Ammler>click on a depot if the depot windows is already open...
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03:53<@peter1138>oh good lord
03:54<@peter1138>another day
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06:38<Roest>oh nice m blunk reappeared
06:38<Roest>maybe we'll see a dbset update :)
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06:44<@peter1138>why do people not bother reading all of his post?
06:45<Ammler>peter1138: I didn't found the NewGRF action for that max_year, which had you in mind?
06:46<@peter1138>did i say anything about max_year?
06:46<Ammler>oh, I only read the mail, thought its about that...
06:46<@peter1138>obviously you can't read either
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06:50<Ammler>well, what have max_year with disabling vehicels?
06:50<Ammler>why should I disable vehicle instead of setting the max_year?
06:50<Roest>peter1138: what about all of his post? he's alive, doesn't have much time, but will be part of the community again, so there's still hope for a dbset update
06:51<@peter1138>yes. will be. isn't yet, as no time for it...
06:51<@peter1138>hence, no chance of a dbset update yet
06:51<@peter1138>Ammler: because there's no such setting as max_year
06:52<Roest>hope is often future related
06:54<Ammler>Roest: you modified newgrf guy to show also path, would it be possible to sort for paths too?
06:54<Ammler>ah, gui :-)
06:56<Roest>well i stopped doing anything with the newgrf gui
06:56<Ammler>[12:51] <peter1138> Ammler: because there's no such setting as max_year <-- with that small patch, it would :-)
06:57<Roest>the idea was to put all the functionality into the original windows, since the new one is too big for 320x240
06:58<Roest>but the first step is still in limbo, so i guess it doesnt have a high priority with the devs
07:00<Ammler>client based patches don't need to be in trunk that urgent :-)
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08:26<@Belugas>Good job Ammler!
08:26<@Belugas>I would like that patch!!
08:26<@Belugas>How dowes it work???
08:27<Ammler>Belugas: yeah, I like how it is described, but it didn't work by me :-)
08:28<Ammler>and you should also see the "No edit function here... ;-)"
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08:28<+glx>I have edit
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08:30<@Belugas>as glx, I can edit too :)
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08:30<Ammler>well, I can't, but I still like that feature, if it would work by me :-)
08:31<Ammler>did you try it?
08:32<Ammler>I checked out a new trunk -r13003 for it but no effect... on holding ctrl and choosing the bridge...
08:34<Ammler>ok, the problem is only with bridges, I guess, because of the additional window
08:35<@Belugas>to be honest, i did not tried it, i was a bit inclined to use it, but the comment peter1138 wrote was good enough for me to not go any further
08:36<@Belugas>plus, i might add that the ctrl+click invasion is a bit... boring
08:36<Ammler>but peter1138 comment only is true for tunnels
08:36<Ammler>the problem for bridges still exists
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08:37*Belugas sends glasses to Ammler
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08:38<Ammler>another advandage would be if the resize of the bridges window would be kept over restart of the program
08:38<@peter1138>what problem?
08:39<@peter1138>there are shortcuts for the bridges too
08:39<Ammler>you need always to scroll down
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08:40<@Belugas>saving window position qnd size wold need to be global, not just specific to one single type of window
08:40<@Belugas>otherwise, it wold be silly
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08:40<@Belugas>and prone to a ton of stupid feature request
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08:44<Ammler>how does ctrl usage hurt performance, that you don't like it?
08:44<Ammler>or is it just personally?
08:45<Ammler>I like it as long as it is only a option to make something easier and not a needed key.
08:46<Ammler>and common used by games benear alt, I guess...
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08:47*Roest thinks peter is grumpy today
08:48<@Belugas>you've heard something, peter1138? Not me... just the wind blowing stuff randomly
08:48<Ammler>peter1138: Rumors, that some PDA like clients doesn't have ctrl, thats why It should only be a option.
08:48<@peter1138>no, i just couldn't parse that sentence
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08:49<Ammler>which one?
08:49<Ammler>or all :-)
08:49<@peter1138>the one before 'pardon'
08:50<Ammler>as far as I remember I had to use the ctrl key on almost every game, I played...
08:50*peter1138 taps along to an isntrumental bit in the knife
08:51<@peter1138>that doesn't resemble the other sentence much
08:51*Belugas is still under the corona radiata influence
08:51<@peter1138>i can't find my ghosts
08:52<@peter1138>i think it's in a linux partition
08:52*Roest thinks Belugas makes less sense than usual
08:52<@Belugas>i have a few on my cellphone, but i don't have my cable... sorry peter1138
08:56<@Belugas>Roest, it's because you do not have an extensive knowledge fo your favorite dev :)
08:56<@Belugas>nor... your favorites devs in fact :D
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09:11<@Belugas>nothing happened
09:12<@Belugas>and thi is a perfect example how usefull a BOOKMARK can be!!
09:12<Ammler>Is the bot broken?
09:12<+glx>no, DorpsGek never had this command
09:13<+glx>btw you missed nothing
09:14<Ammler>well, I asked something and liked to check if it was commited before I disconnected that all :-)
09:14<Rubidium>Ammler: IRC logs are not the way to whether something was committed.
09:15<Rubidium>especially because CIA-3 seems to be in observation mode only
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09:15<Ammler>I meant my chatline...
09:16<Ammler>I know, cia sometimes needs a day for posting commits
09:16<+glx>[14:50:25] <Ammler> as far as I remember I had to use the ctrl key on almost every game, I played... <-- last line from you
09:17<Ammler>thanks glx
09:20<Ammler>how do I call bot command private?
09:22<+glx>/msg DorpsGek command chan <args>
09:23<Ammler>for the logs: /msg SpComb command chan logs
09:24<+glx>dunno if it works for it
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09:30<@Belugas>osti d'niaisage
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11:24<Touqen>So... how's thing on the openttd front?
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11:28<ln>LordAzamath: does "Tampere" sound like estonian?
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11:28<LordAzamath>Should it?
11:28<ln>i don't know, but does it?
11:28<LordAzamath>It sounds like finnihs :D
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11:29<ln>but it doesn't mean anything in finnish.
11:29<LordAzamath>maybe it means something in Swedish..
11:29<ln>no, it doesn't, and Tampere in swedish is Tammerfors.
11:29<LordAzamath>but the -pere means family in Estonian :
11:30<ln>and tamm means oak
11:30<LordAzamath>so it could be some random name or yes
11:30<ln>it has a sort of same structure in the name as e.g. Rakvere.
11:31<LordAzamath>vere is from word veere
11:32<LordAzamath>which means "by something" or something like that
11:32<LordAzamath>so Tähtvere could be something near stars or sometihng :D
11:32<LordAzamath>btw, Tähtvere is near Tartu
11:33<LordAzamath>Why you need to know?
11:35<LordAzamath>At the end of the Middle Ages, a village named aptly as Koski (Rapids) appeared by the flowing waters. The first mill dams were built across the rapids in the 15th century, probably providing the rapids and the future town with their names. In old Swedish, damber meant dam and tamber referred to taming. By the end of the century, the names of the village (Tambere) and the rapids (Tamberkoski) alre
11:35<LordAzamath>ady carried a close resemblance to the present ones. The first plan for a town was presented in the 1640s on the grounds that the location served as a lively market venue, but serious proposals were not put forward until the parliament of 1771-72, when the head of Lempäälä Congregation, Erik Edner, brought up the idea. The rapids, at the time belonging to the estate of Tammerkoski in the...
11:35<LordAzamath>...municipality of Messukylä, interested Edner especially as a future industrial site providing natural waterpower.
11:36<ln>i was just wondering because someone on some web forum claimed that Tampere could be from estonian.
11:36<LordAzamath>Well.. Is that enough?
11:36<@Belugas>don't believe what's been said on forums
11:37<LordAzamath>and btw, hey Belugas
11:37<ln>yes, tere päeväst, Belugas.
11:38<@Belugas>hey to you too lobster
11:38<@Belugas>salut mon pote ln, fait plaisis de te voir aussi
11:38<@Belugas>not lobster, LordAzamath
11:38<@Belugas><TABS> error!!!
11:38<lobster>Belugas: ???
11:38*lobster wonders off
11:39<LordAzamath>I'm not used to tabbing anynmore
11:39<LordAzamath>coz I remember I could tab only after I have already written the name itself :D
11:40<@Belugas>"Let the Good times Roll"!
11:42<LordAzamath>Did I misunderstand? "You had a good time here, but as I rejoined, the good times were rolling away" :D :D
11:42<@Belugas>naaa... just the name of the song i'm listening to...
11:42<@Belugas>peple are always searching for meanings when thwere is none :D
11:42<LordAzamath>whoh. I was already concerned :D
11:43<LordAzamath>Yeah, it's a common problem that people think too much :D
11:44<LordAzamath>ok.. I'm off now
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11:44<@Belugas>too much or not enough
11:44<@Belugas>unfortunately, not enough quite more often then too much
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12:06<Digitalfox>I have friend with a 500MB file that I need, besides FTP and P2P what other tool can we use to transfer the file directly to me?
12:07<Ammler>Digitalfox: rar split and and filehoster :-)
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12:08<Ammler>but torrent would be best
12:09<@Belugas>i'd go with glx :)
12:09<DaleStan>Never underestimate the bandwidth of a hard drive via FedEx Overnight.
12:09<@Belugas>burn the CD and sent bty mail!
12:09<Rubidium>openttd (with one changed line)
12:09<Touqen>torrent wouldn't really be any better if you only have on seeder
12:10<Touqen>svn or git
12:10<Ammler>I leech/seed many times only with one partner
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>occasionally i use DVD+RWs
12:12<Ammler>you need something, what you can continue after disconnect...
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>or he could phone you and tell you the characters one by one (e.g. as HEX pairs)
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>OR, you could open the network share for the internet :p
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>with write access :p
12:13<Digitalfox>Eddi|zuHause yeah that will work, let me see 500MB of zeros and ones.. nice.. :p
12:14<Touqen>At that point it'd probably be cheaper to mail it.
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>but seriously, on linux systems it's quite trivial to temporarily open the mail port, or the SSH port
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13:03<De_Ghost>what's the wireless setting
13:03<De_Ghost>so the timeout reconnect time is shorter
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>the what?
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15:40<xahodo>Hello, I have encountered a behavioral glitch in the user interface.
15:40<Touqen>File a bug.
15:41<@Belugas>waht is it?
15:41<@Belugas>maybe it's not a bug but rather a misunderstanding?
15:41<@Belugas>(happens a lot)
15:43<xahodo>Well, what I did: I pressed down the station button (it behaves as expected and becomes depressed), after that I pressed down the signal button (station button returns to normal state and signal button becomes depressed, normal behavior still), then I press the station button again (it goes down, but now the signal button also remains depressed).
15:44<xahodo>I encountered this with several other buttons in the railway toolbar, I haven't looked how the other toolbars behave with this.
15:46<xahodo>Another combination I managed to get this behavior is: station tool > waypoint tool > station tool.
15:46<xahodo>Oh, btw... it ghappens on current nightly (r13104)
15:47<@Belugas>r12993 does not show the problem
15:48<@Belugas>nor r13025
15:50<Noldo>are those previous nightlys?
15:50<@Belugas>nor 113071
15:51<xahodo>construction toolbars except the terraforming toolbar show the behavior.
15:53<xahodo>*all construction toolbars except the terraforming toolbar show the behavior.
15:53<@Belugas>nor r13088
15:53<@Belugas>so it's something between r13089 and r13104
15:54<@Belugas>15 revisions to check :S
15:54<Noldo>binary search
15:54<Touqen>git has a binary search feature for blaming
15:55<Touqen>You tell it "something broke" and it'll check out a revision, you build it and test for the broken feature and then it'll discard the revisions that won't have the problem.
15:55<Touqen>ad nauseum until you've found out the problem
15:59<xahodo>Can't you filter out the revisions which change files which are completely unrelated to this bug?
15:59<@Belugas>with an eye and a brain yes, otherwise no
16:00<@Belugas>4 suspects, r13092, 99, 101 and 104
16:00<@Belugas>can ayone test it with head?
16:01<xahodo>Not me, I'm not at home and this machine hasn't got svn nor a compiler :(
16:02<@Belugas>same in here :)
16:02<Yexo>I just tested it and can't reproduce it using r12098
16:02<@Belugas>i THINK it's r130104
16:02<@Belugas>not sure
16:02<@Belugas>ot r13101
16:02<Yexo>so do I need to test 13104 or 13103?
16:03<@Belugas>r13103 would be a very good test yes :)
16:03<Yexo>13104 has the bug
16:03<@Belugas>that is for sure, since it's the nightly lol!
16:04<@Belugas>r13099 isnot realted either
16:04<Yexo>oh, well, didn't pay enough attention then
16:04<Yexo>compiling 13103 now
16:04<Yexo>no bug
16:04<Yexo>so it's in 13104
16:06<xahodo>bit OT but... what's up with CIA? The last rev I can find information about on is r13097
16:07<Yexo>no idea, I always use
16:08*glx kicks CIA-3
16:12<xahodo>Does the bug disappear with r13106? (I know, longshot)
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16:17<Yexo>nope, the problem is still in 13108
16:17<@Belugas>the only ones who can answer are those with a compiler
16:17<@Belugas>and they did :)
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16:18<Yexo>anyone else getting a windows error message when closing openttd?
16:18<Yexo>wait, FS#2010
16:18<+glx>only with mingw and debug level 0 and 1
16:18<+glx>an optimisation bug it seems
16:19<Yexo>cygwin with debug level 1 indeed
16:25<@Belugas>that's going to be fun to debug :S
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16:33<@Belugas>maybe i'm wrong, but the bug might be the same as
16:34<Rubidium>don't spoil their fun ;)
16:34<Rubidium>especially with the fix
16:34<@Belugas>well... at least, i know i can go back to work@work :D
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16:36<Touqen>working at work? Are you mad?
16:36<@Belugas>no, i'm a pro
16:38<Rubidium>what's more insane is trying to code without compiler ;)
16:38<@Belugas>can't help it... wife and kid and cat to feed :)
16:38<@Belugas>lol at Rubidium :D
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16:41<Touqen>I've had to do that more than once at college
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16:43<Rubidium>though likely not changing the function parameters of a function that's used all over the place and such
16:46<Ammler>grfcodec -d sub/test.grf temp/ <-- where should text.nfo be now? temp/test.nfo or sub/temp/test.nfo
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16:47<Ammler>it is in sub/temp/ but I expected it in temp/
16:48<Ammler>I am wrong? :-)
16:55<@peter1138>you answered your question before you asked it
16:55<Touqen>I want to go home :/
16:56<@Belugas>I am getting home about just now!!
16:56<xahodo>Another bug, might be related to the one I mentioned earlier... When I got the station tool selected and press D the dynamite tool in the landscaping toolbar gets depressed, but the one in the station toolbar isn't affect. Though, the station tool is raised when I press the D key. The mouse pointer does /not/ change to the dynamite tool, and I can't get the dynamite tool in the terraforming...
16:56<xahodo>...toolbar to raise again, unless I close and reopen that window.
16:57<xahodo>Appears pretty foobar'ed to me.
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17:06<adam_>Where can I get the NewStations newgf? The creators page seems to be not valid any more
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17:09<xahodo>Yet another bug, this requires the signal gui to be enabled. select signal tool > remove tool and then (for example) select a railway construction tool. The tool will show as depressed and the state of the two other buttons will raise, but the mouse pointer will not change to railway construction.
17:10<adam_> is what I'm lookig for
17:11<xahodo>adam_: you can find it (and lots of other grf's here:
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17:30<+glx>xahodo: try r13110
17:31<xahodo>sorry, not at home right now and no access to a compiler and a svn client. :(
17:32<xahodo>I'll try later at home, though.
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17:47<adam_>when using graphics that allow you to use multiple colors on vehicles, is it possible to set all the primary and secondary colors at once?
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18:13<Digitalfox>adam_ I think not :(
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---Logclosed Fri May 16 00:00:08 2008