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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-16

---Logopened Fri May 16 00:00:08 2008
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03:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13114 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use InvalidateData instead of direct window access to modify the state of the statusbar from outside the statusbar.
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03:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13115 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a window subclass of the MessageOptionsWindow.
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03:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13116 /trunk/src/statusbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a window class of the statusbar window.
03:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13117 /trunk/src/ (player_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: make a window class of the PlayerFinancesWindow.
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03:50<echinos>ok, so I've built a large-ish train network, I have 15 million, and I want to upgrade to maglev
03:50<echinos>is there a way to do it all in-place, or am I going to have to do it piece by piece?
03:53<Ammler>echinos: about 4 steps: send all trains to depots -> convert the tracks with viewports -> create new trains and copy the orders from the old -> delete old trains
03:54<Tefad>the copying part is a little annoying
03:54<Ammler>:-)
03:54<Ammler>you need less trains anyway...
03:54<echinos>Ok, I kinda figured that, I'm waiting for all the trains to get to the depots
03:54<Tefad>so it's more like 500 steps ; )
03:55<echinos>I don't have that many trains yet
03:55<echinos>I have like 25
03:55<Tefad>ah neat
03:55<echinos>I hope 15 mil is enough to do the conversion
03:55<echinos>if it costs $$ at all
03:55<Tefad>it costs
03:55<echinos>How do you copy the orders again? I know it's a ctrl-click, but how exactly?
03:55<Ammler>you can check the costs with shift key
03:56<Noldo>echinos: click goto and then other vehicle with ctrl you get shared orders
03:56<echinos>ah, ok
03:56<echinos>cool
03:56<echinos>shouldn't be too bad
03:57<echinos>does the convert tool allow me to do the whole map at once if I'm zoomed out?
03:57<Ammler>yes, if you still don't have the whole map, you could use viewports
03:58<echinos>k
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03:59<echinos>umm... the track doesn't look different
03:59<echinos>:/
03:59<Ammler>did you use a newgrf?
03:59<Ammler>do you
04:00<echinos>only a train set
04:00<Ammler>whcih one?
04:00<echinos>canadian trains
04:00<echinos>no maglev.. awww crap
04:01<echinos>that must be it
04:01<Ammler>:-)
04:01<Ammler>well, why should u
04:01<Ammler>use canada trainset, if you like to use maglev?
04:02<echinos>I'm a newbie, I haven't ever used maglev yet
04:02<Ammler>you can send all trains to depot
04:02<Ammler>remove the newgrf
04:02<Ammler>but save first :-)
04:02<Ammler>but maglev isn't worth
04:03<echinos>well, one thing I like in the canset is the 105-passenger bi-level cars
04:04<echinos>I dunno if there is a maglev equivalent
04:04<echinos>Why isn't maglev worth it?
04:10<@peter1138>canadian trainset replaces maglev with narrow gauge
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04:16<echinos>ok, I'll have to take a look at that
04:16<@peter1138>heh
04:16<@peter1138>basically if you want maglev... use the default engines :)
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04:17<@peter1138>ukrs and dbsetxl have maglev, but limited to passengers, mail & goods
04:17<Roest>morning
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06:48<xahodo>Hello
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06:49<xahodo>I've switched monitors recently and... well, switched resolution (1024x768 -> 1600x1200),
06:50<xahodo>Now, I want to set a different font for openttd, but the wiki isn't of much help on what I need to tell it.
06:50<xahodo>Do I just need to give openttd the name of the font, or must I give it a full path to the font?
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07:00<Ammler>Heya xahodo :-)
07:00<xahodo>Hi Ammler
07:01<Ammler>iirc, you can put the name OR patch to the cfg...
07:01<Ammler>path
07:01<xahodo>That's nice.
07:01<Ammler>just try and tell me then :-)
07:01<xahodo>Any advice for a font? (got quite a load here :) )
07:01<Ammler>never changed the fonts
07:02<Ammler>tahoma or verdana could be nice
07:05<xahodo>hhmmmm... tahoma isn't that nice, think I'll search on.
07:05<xahodo>I'll skip webdings :)
07:09<Ammler>xahodo: did you try verdana?
07:09<xahodo>No, not yet.
07:10<Ammler>How is the legal situation, are you allowed to use windows fonts with linux?
07:10<Ammler>if you have a windows license?
07:10<xahodo>yuck, too thin.
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07:11<Ammler>(just wondering, if I can still sleep well further. ;-)
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07:11<Ammler>hmm, is there a option to make them bold?
07:12<xahodo>Arial is a nice small font, though
07:13<Ammler>have you Impact ?
07:13<@peter1138>bold you want
07:14<@peter1138>what's wrong with the default font? ;)
07:14<Ammler>just because he said, it is to thin...
07:14<xahodo>with that I agree, though I find arial to be quite visible for the town names and in game menu items.
07:14<Ammler>+o
07:14<@peter1138>the gui doesn't yet scale, so increasing the font size won't work much
07:14<xahodo>I though those were small, but they appear to be medium.
07:14<Ammler>small might be the pixel font...
07:14<@peter1138>Ammler: the default font is not thin...
07:15<@peter1138>small is the tiny 3x5 font
07:15<@peter1138>1600x1200 on what size monitor, btw?
07:16<xahodo>peter1138: well, the main menu is clear, but in game town/industry/station names and menu items are not clear to me.
07:16<xahodo>20,1"
07:17<@peter1138>hmm, on normal zoom that's the same font
07:18<xahodo>Can the on screen labels and menu items be given a separate font?
07:22<@peter1138>no
07:22<xahodo>:(
07:23<xahodo>Would be nice to have that, as I don't want to change the font for the main menu and the various dialog boxes.
07:24<Ammler>peter1138: how is the default font called?
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07:25<@peter1138>what do you mean by called?
07:25<Ammler>the name
07:25<@peter1138>errr
07:25<Ammler>or is it included in TTO?
07:25<@peter1138>it has no name
07:25<@peter1138>and in that case, the question should start with what, not how
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07:27<xahodo>Well, unless Ammler wanted to call the font :D
07:28<Ammler>somehow, I like the original font the most :-)
07:33<@peter1138>xahodo: that's why i asked what he meant by call :)
07:34-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving]
07:34*xahodo walks to the phone, and... wait, what's its number again?
07:34-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
07:37<@peter1138>0898 6736 883
07:37<Gekz>PHONE NUMBER
07:37*Gekz dials
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08:06<Roujin>greetings
08:22<@peter1138>seasons?
08:26<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... some time i need to rotate out my old hard disks... they seem to randomly shut down every once in a while
08:26<Eddi|zuHause3>brb
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08:33<kaan>hi all
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08:36<Touqen>I'm your private dancer. Dancing for money...
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08:41<Roujin>is current trunk broken?
08:42<ln>i hope not, Tron would get a heart attack.
08:43<Roujin>i get errors in a completely unrelated file when trying to compile a patched version..
08:44<Roujin>hmm i can't compile clean trunk either
08:44<Roujin>lots of errors in player_gui.cpp ...
08:47<Roujin>r13116 compiles fine, so r13117 seems to be broken
08:48<Rubidium>compiles fine for me
08:49<Roujin>weird
08:49<ln>for me too, the problem is in your head.
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08:50<Roujin>ln: please don't get personal, or I might start to cry
08:50<Roujin>and you don't want that
08:50<@Belugas>maybe clean then build?
08:50<Roujin>I'll try
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08:51<ln>then cry?
08:51<Sacro>then die?
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08:52<Roujin>oh my..
08:52<Sacro>lol... sigh
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08:57<Roujin>nope, still fails oO
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08:57<Rubidium>b0rked compiler?
08:58<ln>a conflict?
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08:59<Roujin>my gcc 3.4.5 / mingw combination never did me wrong before :(
09:00<+glx>let me guess: FS#2010 ?
09:00<Touqen>defeated!
09:02<Roujin>hmm..nope? can't see the connection to FS#2010. -- it is weird though.. it gives me errors like "52: error: extraneous `char' ignored", though on line 52 of that file there is no 'char' to be seen anywhere oO
09:02<+glx>I had this before
09:03<+glx>it was caused by me pasting 'middle dot' and my editor showing the same for spaces
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09:06<Roujin>hmm but I just reverted and cleaned and then compiled, so it should be a clean copy of trunk no?
09:07<Roujin>ok now i've checked out a fresh copy of trunk in a new folder, lets see now ><
09:07<+glx>I have the error too :)
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09:11<Roujin>woo.. nothing's wrong in my head :P
09:11<+glx>checking with MSVC
09:12<Touqen>I still think you're crazy :D
09:12<Roujin>you may have a point there mate
09:12<+glx>and msvc has no problems
09:13<+glx>that's weird
09:13<Touqen>I got my economic stimulus money today
09:13<Touqen>And it's all going to pay off credit card debt :/
09:17<@peter1138>credit card debt... har harr
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>now imagine what you could do with all the money if you didn't have a credit card
09:17<Touqen>I'd rather have a small amount of credit card debt than no credit card.
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have no use for a credit card
09:18<Touqen>That card got me through the last few years of college.
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09:19<Eddi|zuHause>it makes absolutely no difference whether the lower limit of "money" is 0 or -2000
09:20<Roest>it makes a difference if you haven't reached the lower limit
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>unless you want to buy something really big like a house, it does not make any sense not to wait another month till you can afford it
09:21<Touqen>That's basing it on the assumption you can wait that long.
09:21<Touqen>Generally waiting till you an afford food isn't going to work out in your favor.
09:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13118 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make classes of the EndGameWindow and the HighScoreWindow.
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>then you a) did not plan the money according to your needs
09:22<Touqen>Sometimes it just isn't possible.
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>and b) have the same trouble no matter what the limit is, because you will hit the limit one way or another
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>and c) you have relatives for that kind of problem
09:23<Touqen>Yea, I had my mom give me money.
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>no really, if it doesn't take 10 years to pay off, a credit is worthless
09:24<Touqen>Anywho, I don't think it's bad to have a card to fund occasional budget defecits, which mine were.
09:25<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so you go to an ATM to get 500 dollars out of it to pay the hotel you stay in? When you're abroad ofcourse
09:26<Touqen>Yea, but you need to have some kind of credit account to be able to get that 10 year loan at a reasonable APR.
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i have not been abroad that often, but "no credit card" does not mean "no means of electronic payments"
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>in germany, "electronic cash" (Maestro) cards are more widely accepted than credit cards (visa, for example)
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09:28<Touqen>It's nice to have when the company you work for sends you abroad to a country where the exchange rate is 1:2 and you only have a debit card for a $500 GBP hotel charge and only have $1200 in your bank account.
09:28<Touqen>And it take until the next payday for the company to reimburse you for your expense.
09:29<Roujin>right, gotta go now.. see you guys and good luck finding the issue with gcc compiling glx !
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>i'd never use my personal money for company trips
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09:29<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, what kind of company is that?
09:29<Touqen>I don't travel enough to have a company card.
09:29<Touqen>So, they just reimburse me.
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09:34<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but is that the same abroad
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: how should i know
09:35<Rubidium>your European Maestro card works only at the 7-eleven ATMs and some (1 in 20-ish) normal bank ATMs in Japan for example
09:36<Rubidium>whereas you can use a creditcard also to pay train tickets (with some difficulty) and hotels
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>but really, that is an entirely different problem than paying for things you could only afford next month
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>and paying enormous fees and interest which you could have spared while just waiting another month
09:38<Rubidium>okay, the 20+% interest is not that nice ;)
09:39<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13119 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the timetable window.
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09:43<Touqen>You suck if you have 20+% interest. And if you get paid within the grace period, then you don't have to worry about interest.
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10:51*Belugas would like to be sent abroad. doubt much work would be accomplished :)
10:51<@Belugas>apart ottd meetings :D
10:53<@peter1138>Sacro wants to be sent a broad
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10:58<Touqen>I left all my spares in my other house.
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11:14<Roest>lol planetmaker
11:14<Touqen>random?
11:14<Roest>nope
11:15<Touqen>Seems random from where I'm sitting.
11:15<Roest>"seems" is right
11:15<planetmaker>Hi Roest :). I'm pleased that I serve your joy :)
11:16<Roest>reviving another corpse?
11:16<planetmaker>May I know why?
11:16<Roest>if you're interested i have another task for you
11:16<planetmaker>Oh, I think I have sufficient tasks right now :). But go right ahead...
11:17<Roest>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33956
11:19<planetmaker>Looks nice :)
11:20<Roest>it rocks, i want to add this to the pack
11:21<Roest>so maybe i get someone to do the slave labour or i'll do it myself
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12:24<Roest>HandleWindowEvent is private, how is something like w->HandleWindowEvent(&e); done nowadays?
12:24<planetmaker>Roest: this->...
12:25<Roest>nah
12:26<planetmaker>see? I'm not good at slave labour ;)
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>why would you want to handle a window event by bypassing the sending of a window event first?
12:26<Roest>well it's roujins evil doing
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12:42<@Belugas>Roest, what are you attempting to do?
12:43<@Belugas>i kow that there is a problem with handling GUIPlaceProcDragXY, but i doubt that's what you're working on
12:43<Roest>trying to get roujins dragndraw terraforming to work
12:43<@Belugas>hoo... so indeed...
12:44<Roest>but since this is the 15th patch i'm updating, i guess i'll just leave it out this round
12:45<@Belugas>i still wonder how it can be done, to be honest. I guess that changing the param signature of GUIPlaceproc would be the cleanest way to go, but i feel a bit uneasy with it
12:49-!-LordAzamath [~chatzilla@ip41.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
12:50<LordAzamath>Hmm.. My openTTD seems to hang every time I try to clpose it...'
12:50<LordAzamath>gonna try and see what happens with debug mode
12:50<+glx>LordAzamath: mingw?
12:50<LordAzamath>? What's that?
12:50<LordAzamath>:P
12:51<+glx>what compiler are you using?
12:51<LordAzamath>I didn't compile it
12:51<LordAzamath>And I'm in Linux :P
12:51<LordAzamath>So no mingw
12:51<+glx>ha ok, so I don't know :)
12:52<LordAzamath>Last three lines from-d 3 were these: dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]- 3- 55 us - 11 rounds - 10 open - 10 closed - CHR 0.0% - c3113(sc0, ts0, o0) --
12:52<LordAzamath>dbg: [net] [udp] closed listeners
12:52<LordAzamath>dbg: [net] [core] shutting down network
12:52<LordAzamath>Maybe I don't have some packs installed..
12:53<LordAzamath>I today downloaded the binary..
12:53-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.200.46] has joined #openttd
12:53<LordAzamath>Over a long time
12:53-!-De_Ghosty [~s@CPE001d7e66291b-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:53<LordAzamath>And I didn't have libexpat for example
12:54<LordAzamath>rev is 13032 :P
12:54<LordAzamath>Very possible I downloaded some build for wrong distro though
12:55*LordAzamath is going to install make and other things to be able to compile
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13:14<Roest>i think pax dest is gone for good now
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>what did you do to it?
13:15<Touqen>It's really really old.
13:15<Touqen>And it's really really messy codewise.
13:15<Roest>unless you want to take my last working patch which is r13019 and update it
13:15<Touqen>I have, sort of.
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, it has always been both
13:16<Touqen>Though, it's hardly throughly tested and I think it crashes here and there.
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>the question was what changed now
13:16<Touqen>Oh, the save/load was what crashes now.
13:16<Roest>the code changes with the gui classes
13:16<Touqen>I updated all the dialogs that were modified by the patch so those work all right.
13:16<Touqen>And I didn't test all the settings that the patch has.
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>the saveload code didn't change in a long time
13:17<Roest>yea that's not the prob
13:17<Roest>station_gui.cpp ihas been changed so much and i'm not in the mood to crawl through all of this
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>and the gui code should not affect functionality
13:18<Roest>did you take a look at the svn log recently?
13:18<Touqen>The place where it dies is in SaveLoad_STNX
13:18<Touqen>It's a weird usage of an STL list.
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>Roest: i mean that in response to Touqens problems
13:19<Touqen>Yea, the dialogs are fine.
13:20<Touqen>I'd dig deeper into it but it seems that the consensus is that the patch just get rewritten.
13:20<Roest>lol yea right
13:21<Roest>unless you're the person that ewrites it, i doubt that pretty much
13:21<Roest>+r
13:21<Touqen>Why's that?
13:21<Roest>or let me rephrase it
13:21<Touqen>Oh.
13:21<Touqen>I see what you meant now.
13:22<Roest>it's a pretty big project to do it right
13:22<Roest>anyway, so do you have a working (beside the flaws) version for the current trunk?
13:23<Touqen>It's about a week behind trunk, but for the most part yes. It wouldn't take much to get it up to todays rev.
13:23<Touqen>I'd just need to figure out this weird save/load issue.
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13:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13120 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the VehicleDetailsWindow.
13:45<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13121 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the PerformanceRatingDetailWindow.
13:46<@Belugas>commit machine...
13:46-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
13:47<Roest>guess there goes the bettergraphs patch as well
13:48<Touqen>heh
13:48<Rubidium>better?
13:48<Touqen>rubidium's a monstah
13:49<Roest>bettah
13:49<Rubidium>oh, the newgrf-incompatible-graphs-patch
13:49<Roest>who says newgrf incompatible?
13:49*Rubidium
13:49<Roest>that i fixed like 3 weeks ago
13:49<Rubidium>so the colours are changed?
13:49<Roest>or 5
13:49<Roest>which colours
13:50<Rubidium>the background colour
13:50<Roest>nope
13:50<Rubidium>or the colour of the graph lines
13:50<Rubidium>especially the cargo colour's graph lines
13:50<Roest>that's as black as black gets
13:51<Roest>when did you look at it the last time, so we talking about the same issues
13:51<Rubidium>ages ago
13:51-!-Roujin [~Roujin@p54973AFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
13:51<Roujin>greetings
13:51<Rubidium>but WHEN I understand you correctly it still hasn't been addressed
13:52<Roest>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=89866 this is what it looks like with newgrf industries now
13:53<Rubidium>now let me add a cargo that has black as colour (works fine in TTDP)
13:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13122 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN define is needed for all WIN32 compilers
13:53-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:54<Roujin>glx: is that the fix for the problem I (and you) encountered?
13:54<+glx>yes
13:54<Roujin>wow, that's awesome timing ^^
13:54<+glx>just in time indeed
13:54<Roest>black works, it's replaced by some gray i think, one sec, looking it up in the code
13:54<Roujin>congrats on fixing it ;)
13:55<yorick>are win98 builds also made for released?
13:55<yorick>s*
13:55<+glx>yes I make them
13:56<Roest>black is replaced by color 40, whatever that is
13:56<Rubidium>nah... no win98 builds ;)
13:56<Rubidium>only win9x builds
13:56<+glx>yeah win9x :)
13:56<+glx>ie non unicode
13:57<Roest>roujin can you update your dragndraw terraforming, the way you place procs has been broken
13:58<Roujin>can do that, thanks for the info
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14:02<yorick>[20:02] #openttd.notice: <+_42_> Compile Farm: nightly:win32 (13122) failed. More details: http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/logs/win32.nightly.compile.log
14:02<Roujin>meeeeeeeep
14:02<yorick>that's generally bad
14:02<Roujin>no nightly today :P
14:03<Rubidium>lovely ;)
14:03<Rubidium>windows sucks anyways ;)
14:03<+glx>stupid directx
14:03<yorick>win32 doesn't need directx, does it?
14:04<yorick>GDI does the trick?
14:04<+glx>only directmusic is used
14:04<+glx>and not mandatory
14:04<yorick>yes, but it fails
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>"oh, the world is coming to an end!!"
14:05<Roujin>!logs
14:05<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
14:05<Roujin>(no i still don't have a bookmark for that)
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14:06<@Belugas>I was about to say so...
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>hey. i have an idea, let's extend the trigger to "!logs" as well :p
14:07<nicfer>I don't understand why in my country the goverment is trying to bring a train technology that didn't work in europe and they still want it
14:07<Prof_Frink>Hell, extend it to "*"
14:07<@peter1138>what's a goverment?
14:08<+glx>a government with a missing n ?
14:08<Prof_Frink>peter1138! NewSpellingNazi!
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of country is that that has a goverment?
14:08<yorick>Eddi|zuHause, are you ever not zuHause?
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>often
14:09<nicfer>I'll say it faster, say NO to the argentinian 'Bullet train'
14:09<yorick>do you ever login when not zuHause
14:09<yorick>@seen Eddi|*
14:09<@DorpsGek>yorick: I have not seen Eddi|*.
14:09<yorick>@seen Eddi
14:09<@DorpsGek>yorick: I have not seen Eddi.
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>fail.
14:10<yorick>@seen Eddi|ZuHause
14:10<@DorpsGek>yorick: Eddi|ZuHause was last seen in #openttd 6 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> fail.
14:10<yorick>@say fail
14:10<@DorpsGek>yorick: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
14:10<yorick>and then, you'll need the "#openttd, say" capability, it forgets saying that
14:11-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-110-195.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: See you guys on sunday :w]
14:11<@Belugas>@say kick?
14:11<@DorpsGek>Belugas: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
14:12<yorick>@Belugas say @whoami
14:12<@Belugas>hehe true... but i can use other commands to do the same :)
14:12<Sacro>@say @calc 1~1
14:12<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
14:12<Sacro>;ff
14:12<Sacro>pffff
14:12<yorick>@calc 1~1
14:12<@DorpsGek>yorick: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
14:12<yorick>it invalidated me!
14:12<@Belugas>last time warning!
14:12<Sacro>time at the bar?
14:13<@Belugas>that's a last call ;)
14:13<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Pride please
14:13<@Belugas>no
14:13<@Belugas>bribe
14:13<@Belugas>!
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>you take H0 gauge? :p
14:14*Belugas fails to decrypting H0
14:14<Rubidium>:O
14:15<Rubidium>big mini-rail, right?
14:15-!-De_Ghost [~s@CPE001d7e66291b-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale
14:15-!-Zutty [5694f03f@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd
14:15<yorick>standard gauge mini-rail
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14:18<@Belugas>you learn everyday in here...
14:20<yorick>some other manufacturers use other standards
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14:25<Prof_Frink>Oh dear.
14:26<yorick>what?
14:26<Prof_Frink>Model railway discussion got me to the Hornby wiki page, and from there Meccano.
14:26<Prof_Frink>I've now gone to ebay.
14:26<Prof_Frink>This could get expensive.
14:27*hylje has been designing lego trains with tilting bodies
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14:42<yorick>http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/bunker.jpg <-- yesyes, fail.
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14:47<Roest>http://www.engelszuflucht.com/zensiert/bilder/3097/image077.jpg
14:47<@Bjarni>photoshop
14:47<@Bjarni>I have seen the very same picture where the text was in English
14:48<Roest>still the funniest out of like 100 pics i just looked at
14:48<@Bjarni>heh
14:49<@Bjarni>then you look at boring pictures :P
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14:51<Eddi|zuHause>indeed
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>http://usaerklaert.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/die-sache-mit-dem-huhnchen-geschmack/ <- "tastes like chicken" :p
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15:09<Roujin>devs: something wrong with this one? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2002
15:10<Roujin>i can't know if something's wrong with my patch if no one comments...
15:19<@Belugas>personally, i have looked at it. frankly
15:19<@Belugas>sorry
15:19<@Belugas>honestly
15:20<Rubidium>time, priorities and such?
15:21<@Belugas>among others yes :)
15:25<Roest>while we're at it, is #1969 dead, probably is since grf gui got changed into a class now
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15:36*Roest kills a cricket
15:37<Prof_Frink>Roest: Oi! Not in the middle of the First Test
15:38<@Belugas>Roest, i think we've discussed #1969. I have a vague impression of "not in favor", but i'm not entirely sure
15:39<Roest>well i'm just saying, i got some initial feedback, i think i fixed all the issues you had with it and then there was silence
15:39<@Belugas>Roujin, why is 2002 usefull?
15:40<@Belugas>funny, Roest. When we give comments on patches, users think we want it in trunk. when we do not give comments, they are frustrated because we are silent
15:40<@Belugas>what the hell are we supposed to do????
15:40<@Belugas>commit everything???
15:40<Noldo>:D
15:40<Roest>nope
15:41<Prof_Frink>Belugas: YOu're developers. You're supposed to /ignore/ users.
15:41<Yexo>give comments, then at least we know why something is good/not good
15:41<Roest>but having a general idea if something has a chance/no chance would be good
15:42*Belugas does not feel the courage to comment each and every patch been presented and face the reactions to said comments
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15:42<Roest>so you could, say patch ok, don't want it in trunk, close task
15:43<Rubidium>and then get it resubmitted three weeks later
15:43<@Belugas>do you remember a kid named jez ?
15:43<Rubidium>waaaaaaaah
15:43<Yexo>was that the one disagreeing with the way patches got into trunk?
15:43<Yexo>saying he would create a comjmunity dev team or something?
15:44<@Belugas>think he did that, yeah
15:44<@Belugas>basically, jez was ALWAYS complaining about each and ever comments been addressed
15:45<@Belugas>fucking boring situation
15:45<@Belugas>as if i don't have enough stress at the job :P
15:46<@Belugas>hheh.. at one point, he was PMing each of us
15:47<@Belugas>and could not believed that we didn't have each other's phone numbers or that we did not even got face to face with each others
15:47<+glx>KUDr lots a lot of time with him
15:47<+glx>*lost
15:49<hylje>with openttd hg/git support shadow dev teams are somewhat feasible
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15:49<Roest>what blackops devs?
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>what should that accomplish?
15:51<hylje>rogue repositories that mostly mirror the mainline but contain extra patches mainline doesn't like
15:51<Rubidium>*IN?
15:51<hylje>just another attempt at the integrateds, it sounds like
15:52<Rubidium>though the quality of the *INs has dropped drastically
15:52<Rubidium>especially since bottd
15:52<hylje>it's too easy?
15:53<Rubidium>well, how many *INs are there at the moment?
15:53<Rubidium>some 5-ish or so?
15:53<Rubidium>how long do they live?
15:53<hylje>i have no idea
15:53<Rubidium>a few months, certainly not more than 6 months
15:53<hylje>isnt the problem with INs mostly the throw-away patches: the patch gets merged but not maintained
15:54<Noldo>the INs are a bit mixed with they goal
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>compare with MiniIN which had fairly stable development over almost a year
15:54<Rubidium>how often can't you load your trunk/previous version of IN? almost every time
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15:55<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, lack of savegame compatibility is what has kept me away from them...
15:55<Rubidium>how hard is maintaining savegame compatability? Not that hard if you know something about programming
15:57<Yexo>glx, can you have a look at the comments I posted at FS#2010? can that be the cause or is it nonsense?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but there is not enough continuity in the "modern" INs
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>because of the short lifetime
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>and savegame compatibility between different INs is virtually impossible
15:58<Nite_Owl><---- Played around with IN's; played around with BOTTD; will stick with trunk. Much simpler although PBS is still desirable.
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15:58<Eddi|zuHause>PBS ought to get into trunk step by step
15:59<Roest>how so
15:59<Nite_Owl><---- Fingers crossed.
16:00<Nite_Owl>My maps can not handle 50 tile junctions at either end of the station just to avoid jams
16:02<Nite_Owl>Exaggeration but you get the point
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, my station entrances did not get significantly smaller with PBS
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>only slightly more "elegant"
16:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13123 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp news_type.h players.cpp): -Codechange: passing the bankrupt type via data_b is not needed anymore. Patch by Cirdan.
16:05<Nite_Owl>Did the windows compilations fail today?
16:05<@Belugas>ohh.... a user's patch going on trunk...
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>compare www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png and www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%202.%20Mai%201985.png
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: yes, as you can see in the compilation logfile
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/logs/win32.nightly.compile.log
16:07<@peter1138>Belugas: rubbish, that never happens!
16:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13124 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the OrdersWindow.
16:08<Noldo>Belugas: and after the thind one by someone he's not a user anymore!
16:09<Nite_Owl>See what you mean by elegant. Still smaller then what I normally come up with.
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16:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, i also have www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2023.%20Jan%201952.png
16:11<Nite_Owl>Thanks for the compile log URL - did not have that one marked.
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16:15<Nite_Owl>That is a bit closer to what my stations look like. I use a variation on Osai's terminal stations even for two way Ro-Ro stations
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16:22<Eddi|zuHause>you might also want to compare www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%206.%20Aug%201925.png and www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2020.%20Okt%201947.png (although that has nothing to do with PBS :P)
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16:24<@peter1138>ah, evolution
16:25<@peter1138>ish
16:25<@peter1138>do a time lapse video :D
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>i thought i rebuilt that one with PBS, but i apparently don't have a screenshot of that
16:26<Nite_Owl>Made a semi random map for my current game so I could play around with the rivers feature
16:27<Nite_Owl>Fun tunneling under the rivers
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>that game is way older than the river feature
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>oldest screenshot i have is from sep 2007
16:29<+glx>Yexo: indeed that can be the cause as it happens only for -O2
16:31<Yexo>easiest way to fix is problebly changing all static allocated drivers to pointers and create them in a initialization function
16:31<Nite_Owl>The only drawback to rivers is that they can only be changed properly (say moved over a few tiles) from within the scenario editor.
16:31<+glx>but having them autocreate and autoregister is nice
16:31<+glx>it's done the same way in noai
16:32<@peter1138>why was it changed?
16:32<@peter1138>hasn't it been working for months?
16:32<Yexo>then make s_drivesr a pointer that is initialized the first time it's used
16:32<Yexo>it's broken since r13022
16:33<+glx>since we tried to remove memory leaks ;)
16:33<Nite_Owl>So it becomes a save - changed extension - fix - save - change extension back again - play game kind of a thing
16:33-!-Hassan [~Hassan@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:34<Hassan>Heya, Is it normal that a multiplayer game "crashes" after deleting town roads in 0.6.1-RC1
16:34<Nite_Owl>Sort of reminds of the way that Sac use to do her thing
16:35<Hassan>Its quite annoying
16:35<@peter1138>perfectly normal
16:35<@peter1138>we'd thought you'd enjoy it
16:36<Hassan>it has been fixed already peter1138?
16:36<Hassan>(in nightly's)
16:36<@peter1138>if by 'crashing' you mean desyncing, yes
16:36<@peter1138>if by 'crashing' you mean an actual crash, then no
16:36<Hassan>yeah I mean desyncing :P
16:36<Hassan>But desyncing for every player :P
16:37<+glx>and it's indeed known
16:37<Hassan>So Its just as if the server crashes
16:37<Hassan>Ok good
16:37<Hassan>Will the second RC come out soon? Or is it recommended to switch back to 0.6.1 stable?
16:38<@Belugas>GO NIGHTLY!
16:38<Yexo>0.6.1 stable isn't released
16:38<@peter1138>there's a 0.6.1 stable?
16:38<@Belugas>go go go
16:38<@peter1138>glx: so are we double-freeing or somethign?
16:38<Nite_Owl>0.6.0 stable?
16:38<Yexo>peter1138: no, freeing in the wrong order
16:38<@peter1138>order...?
16:39<+glx>static data is freed in a compiler determined order
16:39<Yexo>the destructor of DriverFactoryBase is calling a function on a sometimes already destructed object
16:39<Hassan>Let me refrase that question; will the second RC come out soon, or is it recommended to switch back to 0.6.0 stable?
16:39<Hassan>And Belugas I wanna play multiplayer
16:39<Hassan>So no nightlys for me
16:40<@Belugas>so boooo!!
16:40<Nite_Owl>Stick with stables for multiplayer
16:40<hylje>stables have ponies, so
16:40*Roest blergs
16:40<Prof_Frink>omg!!! ponies!!
16:41*Hassan downloads the stable version again :)
16:41<Hassan>Thx for the help :)
16:41<Nite_Owl>Little ponies?
16:41-!-Hassan [~Hassan@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
16:41<hylje>tiny ponies
16:41<Nite_Owl>The kind you can step on?
16:42<hylje>you can, but you can't
16:43<Nite_Owl>My little squished pony
16:43<Roest>can anyone try to compile my patchpack on windows? it compiles just fine on linux, but failes with buildottd on xp
16:43<Nite_Owl>My little pony stain on the bottom of your shoe?
16:44<Yexo>glx: isn't just removing line 74 of driver.h the easiest solution? the map will clean itself up when it's destructor is called, and we don't care if that's before or after the drivers' destructors are called
16:45<+glx>but some OS don't do the cleanup
16:45<Yexo>the do a GetDrivers().clear() in ShutdownDrivers()
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>oh yeah, C and its undefinedness :p
16:46<@peter1138>it's defined to be undefined
16:46<Rubidium>so it's defined
16:47<Yexo>the only place ShutdownDrivers is called is in ShutdownGame, and at that point the whole map is useless anyway
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't change the fact that it's the cause of lots of headaches :p
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16:49<Yexo>glx: even if the os doesn't do the cleanup, the destructor of the map should've already done it
16:50<@peter1138>just revert the commit ;)
16:50<@peter1138>it worked perfectly well before
16:51<+glx>I'm working on a clean fix
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16:57*Belugas is not working anymore and runs home!
17:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: bjarni * r13125 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#2000](r12913): [autoreplace] failing replacement and restoring a vehicle will no longer decrease the vehicle count in groups
17:06<+glx>Yexo: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/fs2009_2010-2.diff <-- something like that
17:07<Yexo>glx: s_drivers is never deleted and causes a memory leak
17:08<Yexo>but it works fine in that it doesn't crash anymore on exiting openttd
17:08<+glx>it is deleted
17:08<+glx>when the latest driver is removed
17:08<Yexo>sorry, I overlooked that
17:10<Yexo>I'd be somewhat cleaner if the code wouldn't depend on the string returned by GetDriverTypeName being of length 5
17:10<Yexo>but that's another issue
17:11<+glx>well I could use std::string instead char[] ;)
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17:28<Wolf01>hello
17:29<@peter1138>hi
17:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13126 /trunk/src/driver.h: -Fix (r13022) [FS#2009, FS#2010]: driver list should be dynamically allocated as static uninitialistion order is undetermined. The list is freed when the latest driver is removed.
17:34<tneo>hello
17:34<Touqen>howdy
17:34<Touqen>It's like a party in my mouth
17:35<tneo>?
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18:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13127 /trunk/src/music/dmusic.cpp: -Fix (r13122): of course WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN excludes too much stuff
18:36-!-dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable147.26-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
18:36<dragonhorseboy>anyone a narrow gauge train person? heh ^-^
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18:38*peter1138 is a human person
18:38<dragonhorseboy>peter heh I meant someone interested in NG trains :p
18:40<dragonhorseboy>so are you one or not? ;)
18:42<@peter1138>not really
18:42<dragonhorseboy>thanks anyhow :)
18:43<dragonhorseboy>one related question if you don't mind tho...
18:44<dragonhorseboy>think that for a SG/NG coupler adapter car (like in case NG car isn't right in center of SG tracks) the SG couplerbox would had been offset a bit to side?
18:44<dragonhorseboy>if no idea - thats no problem
18:44<@peter1138>what?
18:45<@peter1138>why would you have an SG/NG coupler when the track's incompatible?
18:45<@peter1138>i suppose you could "third-rail" heh
18:45<@peter1138>but that would be pretty specific stuff
18:45<dragonhorseboy>I was thinking that this was dual-gauge .. sorry I didn't mention that :p
18:46<Wolf01>'noght
18:46<Wolf01>*i
18:46<dragonhorseboy>bye wolf01
18:46*peter1138 ponders dual-gauge track in ottd
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18:46<Rubidium>newroutes?
18:47<dragonhorseboy>truth is I was thinking of trying start a small layout again and well I was just wondering about laying N tracks together with placing down a third rail in some place and modify some Z scale trucks to fit N wagons
18:47<dragonhorseboy>not sure at this point yet ;)
18:48*dragonhorseboy already has some nice small-sized N scale rolling stocks (mostly 2-axles, and sorry only about half are actually uk type)
18:48<@Belugas>no...not newroutes... moreuniversalroad&rails
18:50<dragonhorseboy>0-4-0T with up to 5 coaches for it .. 3 coal cars (one with brakecab on it) .. three uk hopper cars .. hmm two generic marklin sidedump cars .. hmm and I think maybe still one cattle van if its coupler isn't broken
18:51<dragonhorseboy>can't remember if I had another engine or the powered-coach-pushing 0-4-0T was the only thing I had working now
18:51<dragonhorseboy>used to have a dockside 0-6-0T but its gears stripped tho :/
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18:58<Eddi|zuHause>N gauge... that's not really anything for my clumsy paws
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18:58<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what Z is though
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19:07<Touqen>Eddi|zuHause: Incredibly tiny
19:07<Touqen>It's like 1:220 scale
19:08<dragonhorseboy>N scale isn't difficult unless you're of quite young age :p
19:08<dragonhorseboy>which in that case you'll just want lionel or lgb/G instead
19:08<Touqen>HO for the win :D
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19:11<einKarl>and in case you have a few kids, it might be you have N to lgb/G together with some Computer to play OTTD in your homelan :-)
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19:13<dragonhorseboy>touqen the issue here is most of the HO is a bit of marklin, several large usa, and quite some old (usually just slight worn out) freight cars
19:13<dragonhorseboy>nothing much good for a smaller layout
19:13<dragonhorseboy>^-^
19:14<dragonhorseboy>well one marklin engine is a 3-axle diesel shunter but there isn't even much cars to match with it
19:15<dragonhorseboy>heh
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>3 axle shunters? something like this?
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Baureihe_V_60
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR_Baureihe_V_60 <- not to confuse with those, because they have 4 axles
19:21<dragonhorseboy>yeah same body look down to the exhaust port being right next to the split windows ;)
19:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13128 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make a class of the refit window
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19:25<dragonhorseboy>eddi but either way hmm let me see if I can find one particular photo for you :p ...
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19:29<Eddi|zuHause>anyway... shunters go well with any amount of freight cars
19:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13129 /trunk/src/ (window_gui.h window_type.h): -Codechange: remove the WP macro and it's related variables.
19:29<dragonhorseboy> http://www.buynscale.com/blwphotos/KA-Pocket.JPG here thats the 0-4-0T + coaches I have for N
19:29<dragonhorseboy>:p
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19:30<dragonhorseboy>its rather small that kato somehow wisely decide to have the red coaches be motorized instead (same thing with the red coach in the 3-coaches car addon set too)
19:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13130 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: remove some of the (old) WindowEvent wrapper functions/enums/variables as they are not used anymore.
19:31<nzvip>Aw man.
19:31<nzvip>What happened to the British English Only rule?
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>the rule never said that
19:32*Touqen hands nzvip some extra 'u's
19:32<Touqen>nzvip: Use judiciously.
19:33<nzvip>I just noticed it said "Unauthorised" in the topic.
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>so?
19:34<Touqen>uk english would make it unauthorized
19:34<Rubidium>what's UK English?
19:34<nzvip>And what English would make it "Unauthorised", Touqen?
19:34<Touqen>The kings english.
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>we've had this -ise vs. -ize discussion many time
19:34<nzvip>There are two kinds of UK English.
19:34<Touqen>sigh
19:34<nzvip>There are the Oxford UK ENglish and the Non-Oxford UK English.
19:35<nzvip>Oxford uses -ize, while Non-Oxford uses -ise.
19:35<nzvip>Of course, the Non-Oxford version is more popular in the UK than the Oxford version.
19:35<Touqen>naturally
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>english is one of the very few languages in the world that is not regulated
19:35*Touqen likes oxford commas
19:35<Rubidium>"-ise ones are now usual in Britain and the Commonwealth in all but formal writing"
19:35<dragonhorseboy>well either way I'm just wondering about one question...
19:36<Rubidium>i.e. formal British uses -ize
19:36<dragonhorseboy>did lowly mixed trains sometimes leave the coaches sitting on line (no depots or anything) to spot the freight wagons they had?
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>anyway... i had a problem spelling the game name "civilization" from the beginning of time
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19:37<Eddi|zuHause>i always wrote it with s
19:38<Touqen>civilisation doesn't even sound right
19:39<nzvip>Really, Rubidium?
19:39<nzvip>How come you see "authorise" in the airport?
19:39<Rubidium>private company
19:39<nzvip>Private companies doesn't use formal British English?
19:40<Rubidium>not often
19:41<dragonhorseboy>hm noone?
19:41<Rubidium>http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ise1.htm
19:41<Rubidium>ofcourse -ise is for lazy people who do not want to remember what words cannot be written with -ize
19:44<nzvip>o_o Or people who prefer it over -ize.
19:44<nzvip>And respect French obviously influence on English.
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20:19<Touqen>ugh, i need another core or three
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22:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13131 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the ErrmsgWindow.
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23:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13132 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the GenerateProgressWindow.
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23:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13133 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h):
23:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add a base class (descending from Window) for all new windows that are going to require a ResetObjectToPlace to be performed on closing.
23:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: This will allow to free the said window only once, and not twice otherwise
23:31<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13134 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a class of the Airport Picker Window.
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23:51<@Belugas>ouch...
23:51<@Belugas>conflicts
---Logclosed Sat May 17 00:00:00 2008