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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-22

---Logopened Thu May 22 00:00:28 2008
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04:26<planetmaker>@seen SmatZ
04:26<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 26 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <SmatZ> but things have to be discussed about YAPP - mostly design
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06:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13211 /branches/noai/bin/ai/wrightai/main.nut: [NoAI] -Codechange: replace a few hardcoded numbers by an API lookup in the WrightAI.
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08:31<Roujin>hi there
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08:32<SmatZ>hello Roujin
08:33<SmatZ>Roujin about FS#2026, did you read ?
08:33<Roujin>hmm, yes, did I miss something?
08:34<SmatZ>maybe it is not clearly mentioned there
08:34<Roujin>oh the enum patch
08:34<SmatZ>but enums, static variables etc. should be commented with ///<
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08:36<SmatZ>just have a look at other places where enums are commented :)
08:37<SmatZ>but that's not really important
08:37<Roujin>well I did comment the widget definition of the window, stating which is the corresponding enum value
08:38<SmatZ>+ TTW_BUTTONS_START, // start of pushable buttons
08:38<SmatZ>really not important
08:38<SmatZ>and maybe I am wrong
08:38<SmatZ>but I would use ///< there
08:39<Roujin>okay.. has that to do with the automatic documentation, or is it just convention?
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08:39<Ammler>Roujin: the ingame rivers don't work with current trunk anymore :-( . Would be really nice, if you could take a look on it. ;-)
08:40<Roujin>Ammler: noted
08:40<planetmaker>ha :) Thx!
08:41<planetmaker>[02:52] <SmatZ> my personal opinion is that YAPP will be in 0.7, and it will be merged rather soon... this summer I would say <-- can you give a better guestimate?
08:41<planetmaker>hello, btw :)
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08:42<hylje>it will be merged YESTERDAY
08:42<Roujin>Ammler: is that the newest you have? 400 revs difference, ugh ^^
08:42<planetmaker>lool :)
08:42<planetmaker>roujin: look in my wwottdgd thread. There's a newer one...
08:42<planetmaker>I think I have something around r13126
08:43<SmatZ>planetmaker: hello, I can't :)
08:43<SmatZ>I really don't know
08:43<ooo4tom>do i understand correctly, YAPP is becoming to trunk ?
08:43<Ammler>Roujin: It was quite your patch there, I only removed debug.h
08:44<SmatZ>but I think devs will have more time over summer
08:44<planetmaker>hehe :) People (including me) start to pester around with yapp and trunk :)
08:44<Roujin>SmatZ: that happens when you promise something :P
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08:44<Ammler>SmatZ: is not the first, peter1138 spoke about it too :-)
08:45<SmatZ>I didn't promise anything, I just said my opinion :)
08:45<Roujin>SmatZ: the wiki indeed does not say the point you mentioned precisely. Should I add it?
08:45<SmatZ>but people understood it is a promise :-x
08:45*SmatZ shouldn't say his opinions
08:46<planetmaker>hehe. Give people the small finger and they'll grab the whole hand (or something like that)
08:46<SmatZ>Roujin I don't know
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08:47<SmatZ>Roujin it would be good to have a look how doxygen understands ///< and //
08:48<Ammler>Roujin: the ingame rivers had only offset hunks until the class conversion, so it wasn't worth for posting a updated patch.
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08:49<Ammler>SmatZ: did you try something with region GRFs already?
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08:50<SmatZ>Ammler: no
08:51<SmatZ>I think I said "everything is possible" but also "it would need complex changes" or so :)
08:51<Ammler>like dynamic engine pool
08:51<planetmaker>^^selective hearing is one of my strengths :)
08:52<Roujin>SmatZ: I figure doxygen reads ///< comments as comments regarding the value to the left of the comment..
08:53<SmatZ>hehe :)
08:54<planetmaker>honestly: don't let it stress you. Take it as praise :)
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09:05<@peter1138>engine pool was quite simple actually
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09:09*Belugas thinks that the more people will pester about yapp in trunk , the less likely it will be. Like... reverse reaction
09:10<@Belugas>hello, by the way
09:11<Mchl>reverse reaction? that would be action, wouldn't it :P
09:11<@Belugas>and further on the matter, why can't it be already code-style compliant???
09:12<@Belugas>Mchl -> action (pester) -> reaction (fuck it)
09:13<@Belugas>is it waht we want?
09:13<Ammler>[15:05] <peter1138> engine pool was quite simple actually <-- something difficult for you? :-)
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09:14*Mchl was just making a pun... :P
09:14<@Belugas>region grfs? what's that concept? not the "all-in-one-climates", i hope
09:15<SmatZ>Belugas: : for example, different towns have different building sets
09:15<SmatZ>I like the idea ;)
09:15<Ammler>Belugas: idea is manly different town and road grfs per region/town
09:16<@Belugas>ho... yeah... an old concept skidd and i worked on... the SmatZ's explanation, not the Ammler's one
09:17<SmatZ>how far did you get?
09:17<@Belugas>words mainly :)
09:17<@Belugas>i've watched the code a bit, tried to see what could define a town
09:17<@Belugas>surprisingly, not much
09:17<@Belugas>than a lot of thinking
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09:22<@Belugas>i still like the idea, just... so... far... away...
09:22<Ammler>Belugas: you think, it's too difficult to make it general for all types, houses, industries, roads vehicels etc..., and then you could also make "all climates in one" too :-)
09:23<@Belugas>cannot parse that
09:24<@Belugas>what the hell are you talking about
09:24<planetmaker>I think the idea was: a general region concept.
09:24<Ammler>not only houses
09:24<planetmaker>Then landscape, houses, what-ever could have a "applies to region xy" only
09:25<@Belugas>in my mind, a region is not a climate
09:25<planetmaker>true. But it *could*
09:25<@Belugas>it's absurd
09:25<Ammler>you could then replace the terrain sprites
09:25<planetmaker>Yes. But technically, the concept is the same.
09:26<@Belugas>absolutely not
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09:26<@Belugas>and that is the proof you have no idea at all what it implies, technically
09:26<planetmaker>oh well... I don't claim I do.
09:26<@Belugas>[09:24] <planetmaker> Yes. But technically, the concept is the same. <--- yes you did
09:27<planetmaker>hehe. Better I should have written: regions could be introduced such that...
09:28<@Belugas>a region is just a portion of the map where a certain caracteric can be applied. A climate is a wider region of the maps where all the caracteristics of all the game's objects are changed
09:28<Ammler>Belugas: it would be "cleaner" the the hack we had with wwottdgd/1
09:28<planetmaker>[15:24] <planetmaker> Then landscape, houses, what-ever could have a "applies to region xy" only
09:29<SmatZ>Ammler what hack?
09:29<Ammler>height > x = snowy / height < y and south = tropic
09:30<@Belugas>wich is completely silly to begin with
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09:30<+glx>better have a clean "all climate in one"
09:31<SmatZ>simple, but rather effective :)
09:33<Ammler>hmm, the patch from Truelight is removed :-)
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09:37<Roujin>Ammler: which was the latest revision the rivers patch applied to without too much hassle?
09:39<Ammler>but it was planetmaker, who worked with it
09:40<planetmaker>Roujin: I think r13134 worked for that trunk
09:41<Roujin>okay thanks
09:41<planetmaker>np :)
09:42<planetmaker>Should I be mistaken I'm 100% sure that a r13057 worked, but I removed it from the forums. Highlight me and I'll put it there, again
09:43<Ammler>planetmaker: the patch had only offsets, afaik?
09:43*peter1138 overheats
09:43<planetmaker>I think there might be one hunk failure between r13057 and r13134, but not sure anymore
09:44*planetmaker offers peter1138 a place in the fridge
09:45*Belugas offers a place besides him on his office to poor peter1138
09:45<@Belugas>cooling is going to be immediate
09:47<Roujin>the way canals rivers and oceans are placed in the scedit is so messed up :S
09:47<Roujin>also desert/lighthouse
09:48<Roujin>one button is used for the latter, and "overloaded" depending on climate ><
09:48<@Belugas>how come? where? since when? by whom?
09:49<@Belugas>FIX IT!
09:49<Roujin>how come? just said it. where? in the editor landscaping window. since when? long time i guess. by whom? someone i better not criticise :>
09:50<@Belugas>that remindds my SD card is not plugged
09:50<Roujin>(stumbled over that while enumifying the widgets in terraform_gui.cpp :P see here
09:52<@Belugas>yeah... i've seen and liked
09:52<@Belugas>only time lacks
09:59<@Belugas>svn uping
10:01<@Belugas>svn resolved town_gui.cp
10:01*Belugas hates self inflicted conflicts
10:04<hylje>ha ha conflict
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10:27<[1]Roujin>Ammler, planetmaker: I'm done updating. Where shall I put it?
10:27<planetmaker>Hey, Roujin. Thx. Either add it to flyspray as an update or add it to the wwottdgd thread I'd say :)
10:28<planetmaker>Or is there a seperate thread on ingame rivers? Dunno...
10:28<[1]Roujin>nope, there isn't. added to flyspray
10:29<planetmaker>Thx a lot. I'll give it a try to get it into the next wwottdgd alpha then :)
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10:38<Eddi|zuHause3>what exactly is the sense of this "ingame river" patch?
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10:39<Roujin>oo my pc just rebooted without appearant reason :(
10:39<LA>perhaps building rivers ingame? /me hides
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10:40<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: it's for people who can't accept that 'man made waterway' == 'canal' ;)
10:41<@Belugas>craving for realism but fucking it up whenever it's convenient :S
10:43<planetmaker>he. Works :) Updated todays alpha2 of wwottdgd.
10:43<Roujin>I don't care. They asked, I delivered ;)
10:44<planetmaker>The main intention is to be able to recover vandalism or carelessness of players who destroyed natural rivers
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10:44<hylje>and arbitrary reroutings of existing rivers
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10:45<planetmaker>A river won't be split in part by some track works like it can happen now - and this patch is the solution :)
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10:48<@peter1138>no it's not
10:50<planetmaker>^^ yes, please
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11:03<@Belugas>personally : make it so they cannot butcher rivers from beginning
11:04<@peter1138>i thought about that
11:04<@peter1138>but that makes no sense when you can flatten mountains
11:04<hylje>invincible rivers
11:04<@Belugas>mountains cannot flood ;)
11:05<@Belugas>but yes, i do understant
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11:09<planetmaker>But if you can build channels, it should be possible to (slightly) change the course of a river, too.
11:09<planetmaker>On the other hand, people terraform too much anyway...
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11:21<@peter1138>canals or channels?
11:22<Eddi|zuHause3>is there a difference?
11:22<@peter1138>... yes
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11:25<Mchl>there's English Channel (a.k.a. La Manche) and Panama Canal
11:26<Mchl>so canals I'd say
11:32<Eddi|zuHause3>well, both translate to the same word in german
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11:35<Mchl>as they do in polish
11:38<@Belugas>not in french. we have "chenal" for channel, synonym of channelway
11:39<@Belugas>canal is accepted too, but has a very subtil difference
11:39<@Belugas>hehe and a very small channel is a "rigole"
11:39<Touqen>A man, a plan, a canal; Panama!
11:41<Mchl>not to mention Channel No5 etc...
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11:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13212 /branches/noai/ (16 files in 2 dirs):
11:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: introducing the ability to build trams. Use AIRoad.SetCurrentRoadType to switch to Trams, than all AIRoad functions will produce tram-objects.
11:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Note: please note that you need a tram-grf file for this to work. In all other cases AIRoad.IsRoadTypeAvailable(AIRoad.ROADTYPE_TRAM) will return false. Don't make your AI depend on trams, not everyone has a tram-grf!
12:01<@Belugas>lunch time!
12:01<@Belugas>OTTD TIME!!
12:01*Touqen wonders if Belugas is in his time zone...
12:01<Touqen>If that is the case, I might have to move.
12:02*frosch123 thinks if someone else would wallpaper his flat, he could code more...
12:02<@Belugas>since i'm in Quebec, it's very unlikely you're nearby, Touqen :)
12:02<hylje>waa, canada
12:02<@Belugas>frosch123, bring the flat here, i'll do that ;)
12:05<frosch123>np, I will just stuff it into the modem. (some kind of turning on the left side)
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12:11*Touqen is 6 hours away from Quebec.
12:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13213 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_station.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: missing @param
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12:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13214 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_bridgelist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: fix AIBridgeList_Length, as the max-length is weird (tnx Anton84)
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12:22<@Belugas>Touqen, far enough so i would not bite you ;)
12:22<@Belugas>in the states?
12:27<Touqen>Let's call the whole thing off.
12:27<hylje>blast off
12:28<@Belugas>so close from here, it's not even the States anymore :)
12:28<@Belugas>it's the middle-zone!
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13:12<Touqen>hello moto
13:13*Belugas welcomes Wolf01
13:18-!-pasky [pasky@2a01:b0:b0::] has joined #openttd
13:19<@Belugas>ho... a pasky
13:19*pasky waves :)
13:19<@Belugas>rare appearance!
13:19<@Belugas>hello sir
13:19<pasky>hi! :)
13:19<pasky>so, how are things going?
13:21<pasky>I'm wondering, is the generic tram set in svn, or only part of the nightlies? I'd expect anything in the nightly builds to be in the svn but it doesn't quite look so
13:21<+glx>only in stable releases
13:22<pasky>so is wrong?
13:22<+glx>so 0.6.0 for now
13:22<+glx>it works in nighlties
13:22<+glx>but no grf is given
13:23<pasky>ah so, ok :)
13:23<+glx>wiki is correct, it says "feature availability" ;)
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14:47<murr4y>any lionhead fans here?
14:47<murr4y>for those waiting on fable 2:
14:48<murr4y>20:42 < Sam[WORK]> we are going to show Fable 2 being played
14:48<murr4y>20:43 < Sam[WORK]> the first public showing of the game ever
14:48<murr4y>directly from sam, the community pet
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14:51<Mchl>what's fable again?
14:51<@Belugas>was not even aware that lionhead had a fable
14:51<murr4y>from peter molyneux :)
14:51<murr4y>the guy behind populous, magic carpet, black&white ++
14:52<@Belugas>ho... steppenwolf...
14:52<@Belugas>nice band
14:52<@Belugas>or was it guesswho?
14:55<Mchl>i know to gamemakers by name: sid meyer and chris sawyer
14:55<Mchl>*two gamemakers
14:55<Mchl>other names tell me nothing
14:55<bowman>meier :P
14:55<@Belugas>i know a few more...
14:55<@Belugas>peter nelson,
14:55<@Belugas>loic guilloux,
14:55<@Belugas>jean-francois claeys,
14:55<@peter1138>jeff minter
14:56<Mchl>yup, Meier... my bad
14:56<bowman>ken levine :)
14:56<@Belugas>jeff whitewhale :)
14:56<Prof_Frink>John Carmack
14:57<bowman>david braben
14:57<Mchl>yeah... these I know too... but Ihave to lookup their names to attach them to nicknames :D
15:01<bowman>fable felt too much like an mmo
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15:07<@peter1138>murr4y: wow, it's photorealistic :o
15:07<murr4y>ok it kinda sucked :p
15:08*peter1138 can't play fable as his xbox is dead :(
15:09<bowman>thats normal, it was 4 years ago hehe
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15:15<Ammler>Does someone know here Gotic, is that something similar?
15:17<Touqen>What the hell is Gotic
15:19<Ammler>the only game benear ttd I played :-)
15:20<@peter1138>s/know here/here know/
15:20<@peter1138>benear? beneath?
15:21<Ammler>beside (thank you)
15:26<bowman>gothic is at the opposite end of the rpg spectrum (the better one, imho)
15:27<@peter1138>wrong flag for english :(
15:27<@peter1138>looks pretty
15:27<@peter1138>always the first criteria for games ;)
15:27<bowman>never actually played 3, 2 was great though :)
15:31<Ammler>I still like 1 the most. :-)
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15:55<Prof_Frink>Is that something to add to the instakick list?
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16:02<dragonhorseboy>how're you smatz?
16:04<SmatZ>nothing exceptional :-/ what about you, dragonhorseboy
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16:05<dragonhorseboy>doing fine - just trying to see if there's a german diesel that fits the requirement I was thinking of or not ^-^
16:06<dragonhorseboy>if you maybe know I'm just curious for something for freights with light weight (3 axle or short-chassis trucks) but still able to work light fast trains as needed at times
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16:21<dragonhorseboy>which of smatz if you don't mind me asking - what kind of locomotives do you like in general? heh
16:22<SmatZ>dragonhorseboy: I don't have any preference
16:23<dragonhorseboy>ah ok
16:23<dragonhorseboy>me well I'll admit to that I just like industrial railroads at times (not just point throttle open and watch random landscape pass by)
16:24<dragonhorseboy>so well yeah thats a lot of different small locomotives
16:25<@Belugas>for myself, i'd go for a Locomotive Breath
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16:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13215 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#2029]: enumify and comment Build Dock widgets (Roujin)
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16:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13216 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#2026]: enumify and comment Editor Terraform Toolbar widgets (Roujin)
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16:46<SmatZ>ln: 404
16:46<ln>SmatZ: i strongly doubt you got 404.
16:48<@Bjarni>do anybody know a web site with technical data for Swedish trains?
16:48<@Bjarni>I saw one at one time but forgot the name
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16:49<@Bjarni>and I want to know the technical stuff for Y6
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17:00<kryzen>hi all
17:01<kryzen>i found a bug (maybe not)
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17:01<SmatZ>oh noes, a bug!!!1
17:01<kryzen>monorail was hurt by gravity...
17:02<kryzen>that's not normal ?
17:02<SmatZ>I am sometimes hurt by gravity, too
17:03<kryzen>yes, we are, but monorail are different.
17:03<kryzen>no ?
17:03<SmatZ>I don't know
17:03<SmatZ>did you turn off the realistic acceleration patch?
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17:03<kryzen>you don't find a little difference beween us and a monorail train ? Oo :p
17:04<kryzen>ho sry i forget see that :'(
17:05<kryzen>i'll test imediately ^^
17:05<SmatZ>wrong window
17:06<@Belugas>nice dialect :D
17:06<kryzen>what ?
17:07<Tekky>Hi, I have a little question concerning applying patches with the "patch" program. The patch works if I specify -p0 but if I omit the -p option, it does not work. I would have thought that specifying -p0 would be identical to not specifying anything, since stripping 0 trailing slashes should be a nullop? This does not make sense to me?
17:07<@Bjarni>I wondered about the same thing
17:08<@Bjarni>but there is a difference
17:08<SmatZ>"patch" is not developed by the OTTD dev ream
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17:08<+glx>I always use -p0
17:08<@Belugas>dev dream team
17:08<@Bjarni>you should
17:08<@Bjarni>Belugas: dream on
17:08<+glx>unless it's a git/hg diff, then I need -p1
17:08<SmatZ>"man patch" exaplains everything for me...
17:09<@Bjarni>Tekky: the only answer you will get from us is that to get patch to work then you have to use the -p option
17:09<@Bjarni>if you want to know why then seek info elsewhere
17:09<@Bjarni>like man patch
17:09<Ammler>hmm, maybe you could create a alias patch=patch -p0
17:09<@Bjarni>or #patch (whereever that might mbe)
17:10<@Bjarni>Ammler: that would suck if you need to use -p1 for once
17:10<Tekky>SmatZ: I have no "man" command as I am not using linux.
17:10<Ammler>should be overwritten like other tools as ls is
17:11<@Bjarni>Tekky: then you could try google
17:11<Tekky>Bjarni: ah, ok, thx. I thought I was doing something stupid and that the answer was simple. But I guess the answer is not so easy.
17:11<SmatZ>Tekky: errr google
17:11<@Bjarni>you could google for man pages first :P
17:11*Bjarni hides
17:11<Tekky>I already read everything from patch --help
17:12<Tekky>do man pages give you more info?
17:12<@Bjarni>usually they give you way more help
17:12<@Bjarni>way more info
17:12<SmatZ>info patch ?
17:12<@Bjarni>man gcc is like a whole novel
17:12*SmatZ has read it once...
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17:13<Tekky>ah, thx, the man page of patch explained everything to me. If you do not use the -p option, then it strips all directories and only uses filenames.
17:13<@Bjarni>I once had a course where gcc and make was part of what we should know at the exam
17:13<SmatZ>thats quite a problem
17:13<@Bjarni>so we got parts of the man page to read up on
17:13<SmatZ>as nothing is really unified
17:14<@Bjarni>but it was a selected few pages
17:14<@Bjarni>and "the right way" is the way that works in the lab
17:14<SmatZ>like switches and its meaning are different at different systems, different versions...
17:14<@Bjarni>that wasn't an issue
17:15<@Bjarni>basically we just needed to be able to compile using the libs and gcc we were given in the lab
17:15<@Bjarni>which means the task were much simpler than say making a makefile to make universal binaries of OpenTTD (which I had already written when I had the course)
17:16<@Bjarni>I didn't have much to do on the gcc/make introduction day
17:16<kryzen>*to SmatZ* thx ^^
17:17<SmatZ>no problem kryzen :)
17:17<@Bjarni>basically the didn't demand that people knew it before taking the course and then we should all learn a minimum so we were able to solve the next task
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17:17<kryzen>XD i go sleeping... to another day ^^
17:17<kryzen>bye and have a good night.
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17:18<@Bjarni>a good night...
17:18<@Bjarni>how do you know if you have a good night
17:18<@Bjarni>either it's bad because you want to go to sleep but can't for some reason
17:18-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:18<@Bjarni>or you go to sleep and can't remember the night
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17:21<@Bjarni>watt is something you use when you measure power
17:21<k-man__>if i build a station next to a station that accepts goods, with the new station also accept goods?
17:21<@Bjarni>have you tried it?
17:22<@Bjarni>if you by "next to" mean that they touch each other then they will end up being the same station
17:22<@Bjarni>and then the answer is yes
17:22<@Bjarni>if they don't touch each other then the answer is maybe
17:23<Tekky>when you look at, why are there some release numbers missing? For example. there is no entry for 13214? Is this because the commit was reverted?
17:24<SmatZ>Tekky: no, there are more branches
17:25<k-man__>Bjarni, thanks
17:25<Tekky>ah, thx.
17:26<Tekky>so the revision number is not branch-specific but refers to the state of the entire SVN repository?
17:27<Tekky>thanks, I didn't know that.
17:28<@Bjarni>it makes some stuff easier when you know that one revision means something specific in all branches
17:28<@Bjarni>and not like cvs where the revision is file specific >_<
17:29<hylje>or DVCSes where revision is gibberish
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17:33<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Of course, it also means that you can see r811152 in a fairly new & small media player
17:34<@Bjarni>which is kind of interesting
17:34<hylje>8 hundred thousand revisions
17:34<Prof_Frink>hylje: Well, it's in the svn of a larger project
17:35<@Bjarni>however a whole lot of revisions in CVS is not sure to give you a good code either
17:35<@Bjarni>if it has a lot of commits like "fix: typo"
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17:35<@Bjarni>and "last commit was a mistake"
17:37<hylje>thank goodness for rewriting history
17:48<@Bjarni>once somebody figures out how to rewrite history then stuff will happen
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17:49<@Bjarni>like if a country is losing a war then they rewrite the incidents that lead to their defeat
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20:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13217 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: old AI was building small airports in years when they were not available in original game, causing small planes and helis everywhere
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20:34<Mido>is it possible to make the AI less....retarded?
20:35<SmatZ>sure it is possible
20:35<SmatZ>there are bugfixes
20:35<SmatZ>but people keep complaining
20:35<SmatZ>I think the effort is not worth it :-P
20:36<SmatZ>NoAI is the way to go
20:36<murr4y>you openttd developers are my heroes
20:36<Mido>but then theres no challenge
20:36<murr4y>if it weren't for you i wouldn't be able to play this great game
20:36<SmatZ>thanks murr4y :)
20:36<murr4y>THANK YOU
20:37<murr4y>and you're doing a great job on the ai
20:37<SmatZ>hehe :-)
20:37<murr4y>compare it to the original chris sawyer ai :D
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20:37<Mido>i never played the original
20:37<Mido>i suppose that makes me a bit biases
20:38<Mido>apparently i cant spell either
20:39<Mido>honestly though what the game needs most is more popularity...theres always too few people on multiplayer
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20:42<Touqen>I think Chris Sawyer deserves some credit considering the amount of horsepower he was working with.
20:42<Touqen>In assembly...
20:42<SmatZ>I think everybody admires his work
20:43<SmatZ>and he is mentioned in game at several places
20:43<SmatZ>and AI was a bit more effective in TTD
20:43<Mido>well...his latest game isnt exactly all that popular...
20:44<Touqen>Which was that?
20:44<SmatZ>now, human players have all advantages - joining stations, presignals, longer trains, ....
20:44<SmatZ>building on slopes, ...
20:44<SmatZ>so it is harder for old AI to compete
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20:46<SmatZ>also, as Rubidium (I think) mentioned, AI doesn't really like "smoother" terrain generated by TGP
20:46<SmatZ>the game has changed a lot, but AI hasn't ... that much
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20:52<SmatZ>I think RCT series was/is popular :)
20:52<SmatZ>also Locomotion...
20:52<SmatZ>but I like TTD (and TTO ;) the most
20:52<Mido> <Touqen> Which was that?
20:53<Mido>Chris Sawyers Locomotion
20:54<Touqen>Locomotion is just akward to use.
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20:54<Mido>Chris should join the OTTD team
20:55<Mido>ah, if only...
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21:00<Frostregen>is there an equivalent to openttd.cfg: [win32]fullscreen_bpp = 32/8 under linux?
21:00<Frostregen>or do i have to use the commandline parameter?
21:01<SmatZ>it won't change anything
21:01<SmatZ>it depends on what is SDL running above
21:02<SmatZ>if you have 32bit bpp in X, then you will run openttd rendered for 32bpp display
21:02<Frostregen>ok, so i need to start x with 8/32 bit depth?
21:02<SmatZ>I think it won't help
21:02<SmatZ>regarding performance...
21:02<Frostregen>in windows it was a huge difference
21:02<Frostregen>pallette anim versus tile update
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21:02<SmatZ>I am not sure if SDL supports hardware palette animation
21:03<SmatZ>you can try though
21:03<Frostregen>i think i saw a line in my xorg.log
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21:04<Frostregen>ok, not ;)
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21:12<Frostregen>do you know any 2D benchmark utility for plain x?
21:13<Frostregen>because i have no idea what to expect from this machine
21:13<Sacro>i only know glxgears
21:13<Sacro>or compiz
21:13<SmatZ>hehe, same here :)
21:13<Sacro>hmm, the cogs don't move
21:14<Sacro>but am getting 85-9500 fps
21:14<Frostregen>quite a range
21:14<Sacro>8500 - 9500
21:14<Sacro>for those pedants
21:14<Frostregen>compiz does look like a 3D desktop?
21:14<Sacro>yes it does
21:15<Frostregen>ah, just misunderstood you
21:15<Frostregen>i don't expect 3D hardware accel to work on this machine
21:15<Sacro>what card?
21:15<Frostregen>so i need a plain 2D bench
21:15<Frostregen>unichrome pro igp
21:16<Sacro>glxgears will bench
21:18-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:18<Sacro>ah well, bedtiem
21:18<Frostregen>760 fps :D
21:18<SmatZ>there can be sdl benchmark somewhere...
21:18<Sacro>not bad a t all
21:18<SmatZ>night Sacro
21:19<SmatZ>yeah, you test how fast your CPU can render glxgears :)
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21:19<Frostregen>is there some way to check if it is using hw accell?
21:20<SmatZ>there is, but I forgot it
21:21<Frostregen>looks like mesa-gl
21:22<Frostregen>ok, thx so far :)
21:22<Sacro>glxinfo | grep dri
21:22<Sacro>i think
21:22<Sacro>glxinfo | grep direct
21:22<Frostregen>it is the third line anyway
21:23<Frostregen>direct rendering: YES
21:23<Sacro>X connection to localhost:11.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
21:23<Sacro>well that failed
21:23<Frostregen>quite interesting
21:23<Frostregen>everywhere i read about it, they did not get hw accell to work with this board
21:24<Frostregen>still openttd is quite sluggish
21:24<SmatZ>Frostregen: did you disable animation?
21:25<Frostregen>nope, just default
21:25<SmatZ>disabling Full animation helps a lot
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21:25<Frostregen>it is mostly scrolling which does not feel smooth
21:26<Frostregen>i try it with 8bpp
21:26<Sacro>argh, tired, sleep
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21:27<SmatZ>night Sacro
21:27-!-glx|away is now known as glx
21:30<Frostregen>ok, disabled full animation makes it smooth
21:30<Frostregen>8bpp does nothing
21:31<Frostregen>do you think i have to disable full animation with a via c7-d 1,5GHz cpu?
21:31<Frostregen>just for smooth scrolling, on an empty map?
21:31<@Belugas>Sacro, i fixed the tabs in
21:32<@Belugas>hope you're happy now :D
21:32<SmatZ>Frostregen: it depends how much water in the map is
21:32<SmatZ>water animation takes most of the time
21:32<@Belugas>and i even added the link to download SF for this poor little tb2571989
21:32<SmatZ>I play with animation disabled on a 4600+...
21:33<SmatZ>Belugas: :-)
21:33<SmatZ>Sacro's gone
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21:33<@Belugas>i always play without animation
21:33<@Belugas>on my 1.35, evey cpu cycle counts
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21:33<+glx>else fast forward is not fast
21:33*SmatZ thinks about removing animation from OTTD as no devs uses it :-P
21:34*SmatZ <-- shame
21:34<Frostregen>just :x
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21:36<Frostregen>hm, openttd uses 50% cpu, X 30, and something unrelated the rest
21:37<@Belugas>welcome back, glx :)
21:37<+glx>was playing :)
21:37<+glx>not openttd
21:37*Belugas thinks he'll do that, for once...
21:38<@Belugas>i have this dvd of myst IV awaiting me since eons...
21:38-!-HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:40<@Belugas>just finishing a last round of checking on airport first...
21:40<@Belugas>addicted I am
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21:45<@Belugas>well... it works fine
21:46<@Belugas>damned.. when to think of it, ther's more to add...
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22:09<Mido>can someone explain entry and exit symbols? i need to know how to make a rail one-way
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---Logclosed Fri May 23 00:00:03 2008