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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-05-29

---Logopened Thu May 29 00:00:46 2008
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02:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13318 /trunk/src/ (gui.h misc_gui.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: move some functions from gui.h/misc_gui.cpp to window_gui.h/window.cpp because they belong there.
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03:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13319 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove use of imaginary horizontal scrollbar in the group vehicle list
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05:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13320 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: move some enums from openttd.h to more logical locations.
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06:09<Szundi>hi, everyone! i'm going crazy :) i cannot find a word about forgot passwords after reloading a multiplayer game. if i save the game, stop the server, then restart, all player passwords are gone
06:10<Noldo>that's just how it works
06:11<Szundi>why is it the good way of handling this
06:11<Szundi>anyway, i'm working on a multiplayer version that allows you to play 3-4 week long games
06:11<Szundi>i think i'm almost ready
06:12<Rubidium>saving passwords in the savegame is pointless, so where do you store them in a way that they get removed when the savegame gets removed?
06:12<Szundi>i've made the days 20x longer
06:12<Szundi>er... i cannot really understand the question :)
06:13<Szundi>my problem is that if a company has no password, it gets removed after a while
06:13<Szundi>and i don't want companies to be removed after a reload
06:13<Rubidium>then disable autoclean
06:13<Szundi>especially for my 4 week games
06:14<Szundi>i cannot disable it, because then there is no way for an abandoned company to disappear
06:14<Szundi>or is there any command that removes a company?
06:14<Szundi>maybe then it will be my salvation
06:14<Rubidium>don't know which one, but list_cmds'll probably give it
06:15<Szundi>i'll look after that
06:15<Szundi>is someone interested in my 4 week long game patch? :)
06:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13321 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp saveload.cpp viewport.cpp window.cpp): -Codechange: move some GUI/viewport related functions out op openttd.cpp to viewport.cpp/window.cpp.
06:17<Rubidium>isn't there already one?
06:17<Szundi>i'm working on it
06:18<Szundi>i've increased DAY_TICKS by x20
06:18<Rubidium>but isn't increasing the daylength EXACTLY what the daylength patch does?
06:18<Szundi>then solved the problems that appeared i think
06:18<Szundi>don't know
06:18<Rubidium>except that you force it to be 20 and the daylength patch allows it to be 1..32
06:18<Szundi>i think i've tried to search that
06:18<Szundi>where can i get that patch
06:19<Noldo>it's in the forums
06:19<Rubidium>somewhere in the development forum
06:19<Szundi>and it can handle the servicing and mad city growth problems?
06:20<Rubidium>don't know
06:21<Rubidium>I haven't tried it, haven't looked at it, just read a little about it
06:21<Szundi>interesting, i've just seen the patch file
06:21<Szundi>however, for example the vehicles check that they need servicing only on daychange
06:22<Szundi>and reliability is decreasing with daychanges too
06:22<Szundi>and it's bad for me, too much money is generated by these changes
06:22<SmatZ>just call OnNewDay every 74th tick instead of new day :-P
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06:24<Szundi>haha, i'm checking the newest one, looks similar to mine :D
06:25<Szundi>SmatZ: not good, then everything speeds up
06:25<Szundi>i've just divided all income by 20
06:25<Szundi>and tried to leave others alone
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07:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13322 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp openttd.h window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: _no_scroll belongs more with the window code.
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07:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13323 /trunk/src/ (player_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp): -Codechange: scrollbars are not refresh counters
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08:52<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13324 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix [FS#2047]: you could not build tram-depots (you got to love the consistancy of bit-placement in p1 and p2 ;))
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09:20<@Belugas>ho... another daylenght patch...
09:23<Vikthor>YAYASP - Yet Another "Yet Another Something Patch" :D
09:23<hylje>yet another yet another yet another patch
09:24<Sacro>is it my turn to release one again?
09:24<Sacro>seeing as i started it all
09:25<Gekz>Superior Something Patch
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09:44<Volley>And Now for Something Completely Different Patch
09:46<hylje>And There Was Much Rejoicing Patch
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09:57<Mchl>PP - patched patch
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10:18<Szundi>my daylength patch is different :)
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10:32<Eddi|zuHause3>oh the eternal problem of daylength patches... defining which actions/values should be tick-based and what should be day-based
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11:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13325 /trunk/src/ (95 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: split the client-side only settings from the settings stored in the savegame so there is no need to have a duplicate copy of it for new games.
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11:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13326 /branches/noai/ (192 files in 14 dirs):
11:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r13264:13325
11:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: removed AISign.GetSignCount()
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12:07<DJNekkid>hi all ... anyone with experience with VarAction2 type 36 here?
12:09<DJNekkid>aka callback :) hehe
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12:11<Sacro>DJNekkid: probably want peter1138
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12:12<DJNekkid>i might :)
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12:20<@Belugas>type 36?
12:21*Sacro turns Belugas into a type 36
12:22<Mchl>man.... unturn him...
12:22<SmatZ>what has ben turned, can't be unturned
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12:25<@peter1138>type 36?
12:26<murr4y_>type 36?
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12:26<@Belugas>perfect example of a digital delay effect ^_^
12:27<@peter1138>but there is no 'type 36'
12:27<@peter1138>that would be 36 entries in an action 2
12:28<DJNekkid>peter1138: : callback 36
12:28<@peter1138>unless you mean callback 36, which is not the same thing
12:28<DJNekkid>that is what i ment ...
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12:33<DJNekkid>no, not yet
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12:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13327 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: NetworkGameWindow uses GUILists Sort() now
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12:39<DJNekkid>well ... the point is peter1138 , or whoever ... im makeing a trainset with dynamic passanger wagons (different weight and capacity)
12:40<DJNekkid>typicaly, an ICE-3 dont have the same capacity as a TGV Duplex
12:41<DJNekkid>i've somewhat understood var2 when it comes to grapics, but the callbacks have ran past me ...
12:41<DJNekkid>articulation also is somewhat understood (well, what i've done works so ...)
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12:47<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13328 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13327): Don't access an item when there isn't any
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12:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13329 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.cfg: [NoAI] -Update: regression.cfg now uses the 'new' format
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13:01<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13330 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix: 'Player name' dialog was broken in two ways
13:02<@Belugas>the fisrt way and the second way
13:02<@Belugas>or the right way and the left way
13:03<SmatZ>the former and latter way
13:03<SmatZ>it was broken the right way, indeed :)
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13:20*Hendikins blehs, misses PBS
13:20<Draakon>get yapp
13:23<Hendikins>I'm a purist. I'd rather stick to stock builds
13:23<Rubidium>so you're using a 3 year old nightly?
13:25<Mchl>what kind of purity is that?
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13:26<Hendikins>I'm doing without.
13:31<Hendikins>It just gets annoying building runaround roads where I should be able to have a station on a main line and be able to run trains in/out of all platforms as well as express.
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13:47<Wolf01>mmmh some futuristic things for a nice future set grf:
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13:49<Mchl>Colani... I remember seeing his concept of Chevrolet Corvette...
13:49<Mchl>didn't look much like Corvette...
13:49<Mchl>didn't look much like car actually...
13:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13331 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix (r12924): Wrong include type for (sdt::)map
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14:07*Mchl got to the point, where he wonders wether he's dumb, his debugging tool is buggy, or his computer is posessed
14:08<Draakon>or perhaps neither of that?
14:09<Mchl>can't see any other options...
14:09<Draakon>blow your PC up?
14:09<Mchl>submerging it into holy water crossed my mind
14:09<Draakon>do it
14:10<Mchl>don;t have any at hand
14:10<@Belugas>Relax, Don't Do it!
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14:10<Mchl>When you wanna to go to it
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14:13<Mchl>just how something in a simple switch statement on server side script can affect the way client side script sends data to it?
14:13<Mchl>it must be posession...
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14:15<Draakon>mchl: its a conspiracy
14:16<Mchl>hmmm... ok, that's a valid option as well
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14:21<DJNekkid>damn crashes
14:21<Mchl>damn posessed computers
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14:22<Draakon>damn conspiracy
14:24<DJNekkid>but it were thoose Callback 36's...
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14:27<Mchl>I scrapped this frament of code, written it anew, and guess what? It doesn't cause problems anymore...
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14:27<Mchl>so buggy debugger option is no valid anymore
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14:35<Mchl>well... it seems I am dumb after all
14:35<DJNekkid>*smack in head?*
14:36<Mchl>yes please
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14:37<@Belugas>Mchl, you're not dumb. you are just learning
14:37<@Belugas>it's normal
14:38<@Belugas>whatever you did ;)
14:38<@Belugas>hey... waht's wrong with me??? I'm not mean!
14:42<Mchl>one would thing, that I should learn to put return($whateveryouwanttoreturn); and the end of a function by now
14:42<Mchl>but thanks for kind words
14:42<Mchl>at the and of a function
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14:43<Mchl>at the end of a...
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14:43<@peter1138>1) not all functions need return values
14:43<@peter1138>2) generally you don't need ( )
14:44<Mchl>both true
14:44<SmatZ>and compiler should give you a warning if you are missing a return
14:44<Mchl>still... I wanetd this one to return a value
14:45<Mchl>that's PHP so no compiler
14:45<SmatZ>aha, interesting :)
14:45<SmatZ>I thought you are talking about some OTTD patch
14:45<Mchl>what's bothering me the most, is why it had so bizzare efects
14:45<SmatZ>I don't know how PHP works :-/
14:45<Mchl>sorry... :P
14:45<hylje>SmatZ: not many do
14:46<@Bjarni>a lot of people claim to somewhat know how it works
14:46<@Bjarni>or at least to get it somewhat working
14:46<Mchl>some are crazy enough, to attempt at OOP in PHP
14:47<Mchl>knowing that OOP in PHP sucks
14:47<@Bjarni>I consider using OOP in C++ tricky enough
14:47<Mchl>it got much better since PHP 5.0 though
14:47<@Bjarni>and OOP somewhat works in C++
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14:50<Mchl>I should tell TrueBrain to adopt PHP for NoAI in place of Squirrel
14:50<@Belugas>why not XML?
14:51<Mchl>yeah... and JavaScript
14:51<wolfy>hmm, being able to get some information about if tracks are used or not would be usefull :)
14:51-!-wolfy is now known as Wolfensteijn
14:52<Mchl>!! it's real shame OTTD doesn't use Rails :D
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14:52<Wolfensteijn>I've got some tracks, and a waypoint, but I don't know if those are used or not
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14:53<Wolfensteijn>although from observation, it seems they're not used
14:53<Mchl>Grass on unused tracks patchmight interest you
14:53<Mchl>AFAIK it's the only way to mark unused tracks for now
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14:54<Wolfensteijn>sounds interesting, but that patch has to get it's information from some place
14:54<@Belugas>the map array, maybe?
14:55<Wolfensteijn>so in theory it would be possible to use the Land Area Information thingie to show that information textually
14:55<@Belugas>i doubt
14:55<@Belugas>it'snot the tool for it
14:55<@Belugas>not in its current form, anyway
14:56<@Belugas>but theorically, i guess so
14:56<Wolfensteijn>like the question mark tool in simcity 4 ;)
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15:01<@Belugas>like... who cares about simcity???? this is OpenTTD
15:01<Wolfensteijn>because simcity has a tool that could be useful in openttd
15:01<Wolfensteijn>and I can't program
15:02<Wolfensteijn>btw, anyone interested in seeing a crazy train network on a way to small map?
15:02<Wolfensteijn>it works, I build it, but I can't figure out why it works, or even how it works :D
15:03<Mchl>like PHP
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15:06<Wolfensteijn>for those interested ;)
15:06<Wolfensteijn>works with 6.1 RC2
15:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13332 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r13325): network games got somewhat broken.
15:08<Wolfensteijn>all I want to hear is that I'm a madman ;)
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15:25<Hendikins>I'm going to ask a stupid question. What exactly does allowing town control of airport noise levels do? Throttle your air traffic?
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15:25*Hendikins is guessing it throttles it by some randomish value based on the level of goodwill the town has for you.
15:25<Sacro>Wolfensteijn: there isn't a 6.1
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15:27<Mchl>it allows you to build airports only if they are not too noisy for the city :)
15:27<Wolfensteijn>Sacro> 0.6.1 RC2 then...
15:28<Mchl>the farther from the city center, the less noise it generates for city
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15:44<@Bjarni>this is IRC
15:44<@Bjarni>most comments are random
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15:51<@Bjarni> <-- I support his will to toggle that "allowed action" bit
15:53*Bjarni wonders about the current location of ln
15:53<@Bjarni>with any luck he escaped Sweden
15:53<Rubidium>near e
15:54-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
15:54<@Bjarni>so he is close to the country of e?
15:54<@Bjarni>that sounds just about right
15:54<Prof_Frink>Sweden isn't real
15:55<Mchl>you mean e, like e=2,718... ?
15:55<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: I would like to believe you but I have actually seen the place
15:55<@Bjarni>the violent place >_<
15:56<@Bjarni>it's the 13rd most peaceful country in the world
15:56<@Bjarni>which is bad if you are used to being in the 2nd most peaceful
15:56*Mchl recalls seeing some exchange students from Sweden while in secondary school
15:57<Hendikins>Bjarni: I love my job. Where else can I get paid $24/hr to play openttd because I've got nothing else to do? :P
15:57<@Bjarni> <-- list for reference if you like
15:57<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Hallucinations.
15:57<Hendikins>I'm finding 0130 - 0430 is turning in to a 3 hour openttd session
15:57<@Bjarni>Hendikins: I once had a similar job. I was paid to wait for the computers to fail :D
15:57<Hendikins>Bjarni: I'm being paid to wait for points to fail, does that count?
15:57<@Bjarni>what points?
15:58<Hendikins>508, 509, 511 and 512 points.
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15:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13333 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Fix: compilance without networking enabled.
15:58<Hendikins>Or, to the untrained eye, the 4 sets of points in close proximity to Kingsgrove station.
15:58<Mchl>Poland's 31st... whatever that means...
15:58<@Bjarni>Hendikins: btw do you guys have freight operation or is it passengers only?
15:59<Hendikins>In what context?
15:59<Hendikins>Do we have freight trains on our tracks? Yes.
15:59<Hendikins>Do we run them? No.
15:59<Hendikins>The freight got privatised a few years ago.
15:59<@Bjarni>I meant the first ;)
15:59<Hendikins>(Yeah, smart move, just sell off the only part of the railway that actually makes any money...)
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16:00<Hendikins>The line I'm working on doesn't have freight though.
16:00<@Bjarni> <Hendikins> (Yeah, smart move, just sell off the only part of the railway that actually makes any money...) <-- they did the same thing here
16:00<Mchl>and here
16:00<Hendikins>The East Hills Line only sees freight if trackwork requires it.
16:01<@Bjarni>they lost a lot of money on the freight department so they put it up for sale. While it was in the process of being sold somebody made a press release that the freight trains did well and all the money were lost in the lorry department
16:01<@Bjarni>the state still went on with the sale
16:02<Hendikins>I also think I'll get along quite well at Kingsgrove, because I -like- doing the backshift.
16:02<@Bjarni>the buyer ran trains for a few years then they closed down and moved their operation out of the country
16:02<Mchl>here they've split state railways into so many companies, that it's hard to understand, who's responsible for what
16:02<Hendikins>It seems people who say "beauty!" to doing backshift are few and far between.
16:02<@Bjarni>now some small companies started up freight operation though
16:03<@Bjarni>small as in "owns less than 10 locomotives"
16:03<@Bjarni>but since they are more than one I guess we have the competition that somebody wished for
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16:03*Hendikins waits for his parents' plane to land.
16:03<@Bjarni>last time I saw a freight train was.... hmm
16:04<@Bjarni>2 hours ago
16:04<Hendikins>I've watched it go from due 0620 to estimated 0555 to estimated 0605 to estimated 0619.
16:05<Hendikins>I haven't seen a freight train in about 2 days, but that is because the Glenfield Junction <-> Wolli Ck Junction section doesn't get them.
16:05<Hendikins>So it is a case of dumb luck seeing one when I'm in the Ingleburn -> Glenfield Junction section commuting.
16:05<@Bjarni>the train that I have seen have gained the most ahead of time was 7-8 hours early
16:05<Hendikins>I see plenty on TLS though.
16:05<Mchl>and I haven't seen freighttrains in days... any trains in fact... but I can hear them
16:06<@Bjarni>basically because the train was crewed and they said "we don't want somebody to show up tomorrow morning to move it 20 km and then take a 4 hour break"
16:06<Hendikins>I can see where they are, does that count? :P
16:06<Hendikins>I see plenty of freight when I'm working at Cabramatta though.
16:07<@Bjarni>you use some sort of EMUs, right?
16:07<Hendikins>Bjarni: You don't work on stations IIRC, otherwise I'd ask if you had something like our Train Location System (TLS)
16:07<Hendikins>Sydney uses DDEMUs for passenger services.
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16:08<Hendikins>Our entire electric fleet is double deck.
16:08<@Bjarni>we have a system to detect what blocks are in use (read: contains a train) and a computer to remember the train number for the train in each block
16:08<Hendikins>That is basically what TLS does.
16:08<@Bjarni>we also have GPS on all units with a cab
16:08<@Bjarni>so we have two systems so we are covered if one of them dies
16:09<Hendikins>We get a diagram of the track layout, and it shows what train number (if any) is in a section.
16:09<@Bjarni>sometimes the computer that remembers the train numbers forgets all the numbers and then the backup GPS system is nice
16:09<Hendikins>We don't get backup for TLS, but the signallers would have some sort of backup system.
16:09<Hendikins>AFAICT TLS uses a combination of train radio + track circuits.
16:11<@Bjarni>Hendikins: <-- this is what our system looks like
16:11<@Bjarni>well some of it
16:11<Hendikins>Anything unrecognised by the system will have U??? (starting from U001). Track machines and whatnot will just show up as ****
16:11<@Bjarni>to the top left is the Swedish system
16:11<@Bjarni>the low row is the Danish system based on location on the track blocks
16:11<@Bjarni>and the map is the GPS system
16:11<Hendikins>The one down the bottom is sorta kinda similar to what we see with TLS
16:11<@Bjarni>the remaining two screens are schedule and train consists for a specific train
16:12<Hendikins>Unfortunately I don't have a photo of a TLS display, I'll have to take one (or a screenshot) and show you.
16:12<Hendikins>TLS is an information system for stations, not a safety/control system.
16:13<@Bjarni>I took this picture some time last year... I have known for years what it looks like without having a picture of it
16:13<@Bjarni>this is pure safety/reroute planning and so on
16:13<Hendikins>Actually, I can do a blurry crop :P
16:14<@Bjarni>the guy watching those screens are actually the one to reroute trains to fix when everything goes wrong. He will not inform passengers (somebody else will do that) and he will not control signals either (a 3rd person will do that)
16:15<@Bjarni>the screens are mirrors of that the guy with the signals can see though... it's the very same thing
16:16<Hendikins>That is a screen that happens to be showing TLS in the background of a photo I took for another reason.
16:16<@Bjarni>yeah it's blurry but it's good enough for me to make out what goes on
16:16<Sacro>Bjarni: looks like british IECC
16:16<@Bjarni>you have 4 parallel tracks?
16:16<Hendikins>Yep. In that section. Some sections we have more
16:16<hylje>two intercity and two local traffic tracks
16:17<Sacro>up/down fast/slow
16:17<hylje>no major five or six-rail mainlines here :(
16:17<Hendikins>Sacro: They're actually called the up/down main and suburban
16:17<Sacro>Hendikins: yes, i guessed as much
16:17<hylje>props for using right-hand traffic for intercity and left-hand for local
16:17<Hendikins>Get further in and you've got the main, suburban and local
16:18<@Bjarni>I think we only have one place with 4 tracks that's controlled from the same screen
16:18<Hendikins>hylje: Sydney Central station has 25 platforms in active use.
16:18<hylje>that central station entry doesn't count :P
16:18<hylje>some nine or ten tracks there
16:18<@Bjarni>those are actually 4 interesting tracks as the signal system sees them as 4 independent singleline tracks that just happens to be next to each other
16:18<@Bjarni>meaning they have signals for both ways
16:19<@Bjarni>so you can set the direction for all of them to be in the same direction if you really have to
16:19<hylje>well there's this thing called fault tolerance...
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16:19<Hendikins>1 - 15 are terminating roads (Sydney Terminal), 16 - 23 are the suburban (through) platforms (Central Electric), 24/25 are the ESR. 26/27 are not used (never completed)
16:19<hylje>the crazy people around here are trying to get a through (loop) track for the main station
16:20<@Bjarni>why is that crazy?
16:20<hylje>because i say so
16:20<@Bjarni>that sounds like a valid reason
16:21<hylje>anyway, the state rail insists there's no room on the main station existing trackage
16:21<hylje>except that they're incredibly sloppy about them
16:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13334 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move the network settings variables from network/network_internal to settings.
16:22<Hendikins>My parents' flight has landed
16:22<hylje>if something could make them use the platforms efficiently, there'd be no need for the loop
16:22*Hendikins assumes the position, watches for them to walk out
16:22<@Bjarni>Hendikins: already?
16:22<@Bjarni>are you sure?
16:22<Hendikins>Bjarni: Scheduled 0620, landed 0614.
16:23<Hendikins>Currently 0622, so depending on how quickly they get through customs, they'll walk out any minute now.
16:23<@Belugas>Hendikins, i hope you've cleaned the house before them come in...
16:23<Rubidium>lol :)
16:23<Hendikins>Belugas: My father cleaned it before he left. I haven't used anything outside my room :P
16:23<Rubidium>Hendikins: you know that landed means "wheels have touched the tarmac"?
16:23<Hendikins>You see, because of my hours, I'm eating at work
16:23<Rubidium>so that they are not even at the gate yet
16:23<@Bjarni>like getting rid of all dirty glasses with lipstick on them as so on
16:24<@Bjarni>made their bed so nobody can see that it has been in use
16:24<@Bjarni>stuff like that
16:24<Hendikins>Rubidium: I fly often enough to know what "landed" means, how long it should take them to get through if they're lucky, etc.
16:24<@Bjarni>are you supposed to pick them up?
16:25<Hendikins>Rubidium: If they're lucky and get through customs quickly (my father is QF staff), they'll be out shortly
16:25<Rubidium>but 8 minutes to go from the landing strip to the terminal via customs (+baggage claim?) seems amazingly quick
16:25<@Belugas>jungle airport...
16:25<Hendikins>Rubidium: I've done it in 11 minutes coming back from NZ.
16:26<Hendikins>That is what I use as my baseline "minimum" figure.
16:26<@Bjarni>I have also done it in something like that
16:26<@Bjarni>but I guess that was because the airport was empty at the time
16:26<@Bjarni>the flight was 4 hours late so it was around 2 O'clock during the night
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16:26<Hendikins>It all depends. It helps that my father is QF staff.
16:26<@Bjarni>the airport was closed down and lights off except for the path we had to walk
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16:27<Hendikins>They tend to hassle airline staff less from what I can tell.
16:27*Rubidium has not even had a single flight where it took less than 15 minutes to actually get out of the plane from the moment it touched down
16:27<@Bjarni>and there was no queue on the baggage either
16:27<hylje>that's just unpossible
16:27<@Bjarni>hylje: what is?
16:27<Hendikins>Bjarni: I'm not scheduled to pick them up. However, if I didn't show up at the airport, my mother would ignore the fact I'm doing 10 backshifts in a row and wake me up when she got home.
16:28<hylje>Bjarni: ponies
16:28<Hendikins>So I can either go to bed later and sleep uninterrupted... or get interrupted just after getting to sleep.
16:28<Hendikins>I figure I'm better off if I show up here, grin and bear it, and sleep undisturbed for 8 hours.
16:29<@Bjarni>you can't be paid to sleep on the job?
16:29<Hendikins>I could sleep on the job, but I won't do that on principle.
16:30<Hendikins>I'll stay awake on backshift. Not because I have any work to do, but because if anything happens, I can respond to it.
16:30<@Bjarni>there is a station not far from here where the control tower was bombed during the war. They then replaced it and nothing happened with the technology in it since (except for the computer that makes a log but doesn't control anything)
16:30<@Bjarni>so it can't be remote controlled
16:30<@Bjarni>it's manned 24 hours/day
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16:30<@Bjarni>during the night there is somebody there who might sleep but the railroad need somebody to be there so they can call and wake them up if they need the station
16:31<Hendikins>Only major stations or stations near important infrastructure tend to get manned 24/7 here.
16:31<@peter1138>what hours is this 'backshift'?
16:31<@Bjarni>it's the end of the line for 4 different railroads
16:31<@Bjarni>not really as some of them are merged
16:31<Hendikins>In the Metro South sector, those are Campbelltown (major/yard), Glenfield (points), Liverpool (major/yard), Cabramatta (points), East Hills (points), Kingsgrove (points)
16:31<@Bjarni>but it's the end for 5 different lines ;)
16:32<Hendikins>peter1138: Nominally 2200 - 0600, subject to local variation.
16:32<@Bjarni>going in 4 different directions
16:32<@Bjarni>I think that qualifies as a terminal
16:32<Hendikins>In the case of the station I'm currently working at, it is 2100 - 0500 weekdays and 2200 - 0600 weekends.
16:32<@Bjarni>why the difference?
16:33<Hendikins>Presumably because we've got a part time CSA on weekdays
16:33<@peter1138>that's usually called "night shift" then, heh
16:33<Hendikins>peter1138: Night shift, back shift, graveyard shift, whatever you wish to call it.
16:34<@Bjarni>graveyard shift sounds nice
16:34<Hendikins>It is referred to as backshift on the NSW railways, hence my use of the term.
16:34<Hendikins>Jargon test: What does "no road" mean?
16:35<@Bjarni>I can remember one time when the station manager couldn't go to sleep because we had a train passing in the middle of the night
16:35<@Bjarni>now that has to be boring
16:35<@Bjarni>sitting up for 3 hours with only one train
16:35<Hendikins>I literally have nothing to do at work between 1:30am and 4:30am
16:35<@Bjarni>and you only control one station so you set signals for entry and departure for that train
16:36<Hendikins>So, who knows what "No road" means?
16:36<@Bjarni><Hendikins> I literally have nothing to do at work between 1:30am and 4:30am <-- then why are you there?
16:36<@Bjarni>here they actually planned so one shift ended at 1:45 and the next one started at 4:30
16:36<Hendikins>Bjarni: In case the points fail or there is some other problem.
16:37<Hendikins>I agree, I don't need to be there.
16:37<@Bjarni>maybe you should give a better explanation of what it means that the points fail
16:37<Hendikins>They're wasting money paying me to be there.
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16:37<Hendikins>If the points fail I have to wind them by hand.
16:38<Hendikins>This is important because we've got a turnback and four lines merging in to two.
16:38<@Bjarni>I still don't get what you mean by point :(
16:39<@Bjarni>and what are the odds that they will fail during the night when they aren't used? :P
16:39<Hendikins>Pretty much nil
16:39<Hendikins>Which is why I agree that it is a waste having me there
16:39*Bjarni once saw a switch fail
16:39<@Bjarni>and failed hard
16:39<Hendikins>But I can understand having somebody there from before the first train until after the last.
16:39<@peter1138>Bjarni only knows Americanese :(
16:40<Hendikins>508/509 points are for the turnback, 511/512 points are for the main
16:40<@Bjarni>peter1138: I didn't talk down to you so why this great insult?
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16:41<@Bjarni>I just never seen them described as points before. I have seen them described as switches, turnouts and stuff but not points
16:41<Hendikins>They're normally described as points in UK/Australian English
16:42<Hendikins>Hence peter1138 pinging you on that.
16:42<@Bjarni>then it's odd that I have never encountered this use of the word point before
16:42<@Bjarni>not even when I had a visitor from English railroad
16:42<Hendikins>It isn't singular. Always pluralised "points".
16:42<Hendikins>Railway, not railroad.
16:43<Hendikins>There's three ways: The right way, the wrong way, and the railway.
16:43<@Bjarni>or to be specific "an English historical heritage railway"
16:44<Hendikins>We're merely arguing semantics anyway. You know what I'm talking about (now)
16:44<@Bjarni>but they only fail when they are supposed to move
16:45<@Bjarni>and fails to do that or lock afterwards
16:45<Hendikins>Or, if they're controlled by the box and they lose detection.
16:46<@Bjarni>last time I was on the tracks I repaired "a points".... if it's always plural then how do I say that it's only one?
16:46<Hendikins>They can fail without actually being meant to move.
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16:46<Hendikins>It is a set of points.
16:46<Hendikins>They're either <something descriptive> points, or simply a set of points.
16:47<@Bjarni>in that case I repaired a set of points
16:47<Hendikins>So if somebody tells me 512 points failed, I swear then go down and investigate
16:47<Hendikins>512 points being on the up
16:48<@Bjarni>I really hope you have a set of points numbered 512 and it's not the count of failed points
16:48<Hendikins>Yes, 512 is a specific set of points
16:48<@Bjarni>ohh.... babelfish once made one of those
16:49<Hendikins>512 points are the ones that would be the biggest problem for me if they failed on my shift.
16:49<@Bjarni>I use it on a readme in Japanese and it told me to create 230 directories (getting the computer to translate is always faster than looking up a whole lot of words)
16:49<Hendikins>Followed by 511. 508/509 I wouldn't care about too much.
16:49<@Bjarni>it was supposed to tell me to create ONE directory called 230
16:50<@Bjarni>actually the number was 223 but that's besides the point
16:50<@Bjarni>the point is that you shouldn't trust babelfish
16:50<Hendikins>Of course.
16:51<@Bjarni>it also made another garbage translation (on the same text). It translated 京阪 (Keihan, name of railroad operator) as "Capital阪"
16:51<@Bjarni>google translate can actually translate this word correctly
16:52*Hendikins watches the crowd.
16:52<Hendikins>Still waiting at arrivals at the airport.
16:53<@Bjarni>so you use wifi?
16:53-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
16:53<Hendikins>Not only does Sydney Airport lack free wifi, it chews up rather more battery than this does.
16:54<hylje>edge (or straight gprs) is enough for ircin
16:55<@Bjarni>we got really crappy 3G coverage
16:55<@Bjarni>so I will not invest in it
16:55<@Bjarni>it's really expensive to use too once you actually find a spot where it works
16:57-!-Apokalipz [~Apokalipz@] has joined #openttd
16:58<Apokalipz> Click on that link to get some awesome free prizes such as Anime, Video Games, Nexon Cards, and much more. All you have to do is click on that link, sign up, and start earning points by completing the surveys and 100% free offers (No credit card required). Its that easy! So what are you waiting for? Click on that given link, sign up, and start earning those points!
16:58<Rubidium>@kick Apokalipz
16:58-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Apokalipz@76.205.125.*] by Bjarni
16:58<Rubidium>booh :(
16:59-!-Apokalipz was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [this channel doesn't allow commercials]
16:59<@peter1138>last ubuntu update fixes compiz shadows :D
16:59<Hendikins>Well, they've arrived.
17:00<@Bjarni>for a split sec I thought "who?" because Apokalipz and ubuntu took my attention
17:00<@Bjarni>not to mention the footsteps I just heard on the staircase
17:01<@Bjarni>Hendikins: so we will see you later... have fun :)
17:01<Hendikins>I'm not disappearing.
17:01<Hendikins>I'm here until this battery goes flat :P
17:02-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:02<@Bjarni>so if we want to get rid of you we should send diff files to you and ask you to test them
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17:02<Hendikins>Not right now. I'm dead on my feet.
17:03<Hendikins>I'll take a screenshot of the TLS view of Central for you though, when I go to work tonight.
17:03<Hendikins>It is *crazy* how much we've got there.
17:05<@Bjarni>actually the question is no longer if you can get the information you want
17:05<@Bjarni>the question is if you can get the information you want without drowning in info you don't want
17:06<@Bjarni>like do you want to know the state of each set of points all the time?
17:06<@Bjarni>of every single signal?
17:06<@Bjarni>and so on
17:06<@Bjarni>sometimes yes and sometimes no
17:06<Hendikins>The only time I find out about the status of the points is if operations call me because of them failing
17:07<@Bjarni>you don't need them on a regular basis so they filtered out that info on your screen
17:08<@Bjarni>the system knows this info though
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17:10<@Bjarni>time to sleep
17:10<@Bjarni>my body just told me so ;)
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17:31<Eddi|zuHause2>sweden is the scandinavian version of bielefeld ;)
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17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13335 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: remove rogue (debugging) printf.
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17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13336 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: loading old savegames, e.g. the intro game, would reset the autosave settings.
17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13337 /trunk/src/settings_type.h: -Doc: add documentation to some variables in settings_type.h.
17:37<SmatZ>r13337 wow
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17:39<@peter1138>openttd is leeet
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18:22<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13338 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Doc: add documentation about the window placement. Patch by Alberth.
18:24<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: You broke it.
18:26<Rubidium>I always break stuff
18:26<Rubidium>and annoyingly people can't even find the most obvious bugs
18:27<Prof_Frink>For that brief 50 minutes, openttd was leeet.
18:27<Rubidium>now it is *more* than leeet
18:27<Rubidium>it'll be elite / eleet in a few years though
18:27<Prof_Frink>Oh well, you'll have to make 18k more commits
18:28<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: :)
18:28<SmatZ>hehe Rubidium :-)
18:28<Rubidium>and ileet/ilete/ilite before that
18:28<Rubidium>(all sounds the same)
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19:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13339 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: splitting of the main toolbar when the resolution becomes very low so the buttons are still visible and useable. Patch by Dominik.
19:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13340 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: graphics to be used for the split toolbar on low resolutions.
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21:08<DaleStan>peter1138: Can you update the documentation for CB 1D with respect to the new load-multiple-train-sets feature?
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21:28<@Belugas>DaleStan, something has changed to cb 1D with dynamicengine?
21:28<DaleStan>Well, how does it report that the engine and wagon are in different sets, for example.
21:30<@Belugas>looking at the sources, there is no difference as to old behaviour (from my little knowledge of engine system). So it is not aware of different sets
21:30<@Belugas>note that i'm surely wrong
21:31<DaleStan>Well then, it needs to be, because "vehicle ID $NUM" is not useful information if you have no way to determine which set it belongs to.
21:33<@Belugas>does TTDP has this feature? because unless i'm mistaken, TTDP can load multiple sets too, right?
21:33<DaleStan>peter1138: And any other newgrf stuff that might be affected. OzTransLtd also mentions livery overrides, CB 18 and 34, and vehicle variables 42, 60, C6, and F2. I have made no attempt to confirm this report.
21:33<DaleStan>No, Patch does not have this feature. I think Oskar might be working on it, but I don't know for sure.
21:34<@Belugas>so, if Patch does not have it, but still can load multiple sets, why Open should have it? I fail to understand, sorry :(
21:34<@Belugas>as for OzTransLtd, i migh say it's a real pleasure to have yet again the knife under the throat
21:35<DaleStan>Patch can load multiple sets. The last set loaded wins, and all others can go cry in the corner.
21:36<DaleStan>For basically all sets, unused vehicles slots, if any, get disabled, so the GRF knows that the vehicle in question is its vehicle.
21:37<@Belugas>ok, makes sens
21:42*DaleStan wonders how hard it would be to make an Acid test for NFO.
21:42<DaleStan>Probably too hard.
21:47<@Belugas>Acid test?
21:48<+glx>like for css
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---Logclosed Fri May 30 00:00:32 2008