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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-03

---Logopened Tue Jun 03 00:00:07 2008
00:09-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-165-98-32.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
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02:11<LA>I'm crazy
02:13<LA>am I?
02:14<Pikka>yes
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02:20<LA>I knew smb would say that
02:21<LA>I was bored so I started making tram tracks based on rail tracks
02:25<Pikka>you mean like these ones? ;) http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=151
02:27<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't like standard gauge trams
02:27<Eddi|zuHause3>trams have to be meter gauge
02:30<LA>pikka, no based on trg1r rail sprites :P.. But I got confuzed with the crossings part so far :/
02:33<Tefad>http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-melvin-cat-wants-stapler.jpg
02:35<LA>Pikka: Although the outcomes will be similar :D
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02:49<LA>hmm.. too useless.. gonna do something else
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02:54<LA>trams...hmmm
02:54<LA>trains - trams
02:55<LA>how do I define if an RV is a tram or a truck/bus?
02:56<LA>and what action0 id should it change then? :/
02:56<LA>and action3
02:59<LA>k, found out
02:59<LA>misc flag...
02:59<LA>but still what ID's should it use?
03:05<@peter1138>doesn't matter
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03:10<Pikka>peter peter...
03:13<@peter1138>pikka :D
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03:14<Pikka>normalised inflation? :D
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03:18<@peter1138>hmm?
03:18<Pikka>precalculated inflation levels on game start so that the current 0 = 1920, instead of = whenever the game is started. :)
03:19<@peter1138>ah
03:19<@peter1138>i thought someone had done that once
03:19<@peter1138>oh
03:19<@peter1138>maybe that was engine reliability levels
03:19<@peter1138>you want to make it impossible to start later? ;)
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03:20<iAN_>hi
03:20<Pikka>no.. I want to make it so that it's not impossible if you start earlier. :O
03:20<iAN_>hey Pikka! =)
03:20<Pikka>hello
03:21<iAN_>I think I read your name somewhere in my oTTD extension grfs
03:21<iAN_>:-)
03:21<@peter1138>hmm
03:21<iAN_>I got a question. Somehow I managed to install fishies into my seas. Also I managed to get some fish-ships and some fish-cargo-train-hoppers
03:21-!-smoovi [smoovi@e178193079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
03:22<iAN_>But how the heck can I order the ships to collect the fishies?
03:22<iAN_>I think in ttdpatch it was to ctrl-place a buoy. That accepted cargo and was kind a station.
03:22<iAN_>How do I do it in oTTD?
03:23<Pikka>raise some land and build a dock?
03:23<@peter1138>oh, does the fishing area not include a station?
03:23<@peter1138>(like oilrigs do)
03:24<iAN_>erm. raising land in the middle of the ocean (2 tiles) and building a dock is quite EXPENSIVE for a starter.
03:24<@peter1138>yes it is, but that's not what i said
03:24<iAN_>Also it would look nicer when the ships go fishing and not dock on an island =)
03:25<iAN_>The fishing area can't be set as station in the shedule list of ships
03:25<iAN_>also I can't use a buoy. So far for now, I managed to "build a dock". But I thought there was a "better" solution implemented in oTTD
03:26<@peter1138>well i've never played with that so i'm not aware of a problem, heh
03:28<@peter1138>noone else has reported anything, but then people are good at finding workarounds instead ;)
03:29<iAN_>building a buoy: 138$ building a dock: 125.000$
03:29<iAN_>It's not really a good idea to start with fish then :-(
03:32<iAN_>How complicated would it be to make buoys to stations?
03:32<iAN_>or extend the fishing (source) to have a station included?
03:38<@Rubidium>one newgrf has fishing grounds without dock/heliport, another newgrf has fishing grounds with dock/heliport
03:38<Ammler>good morning all
03:38<@Rubidium>making a buoy a station is just a big hack
03:39<Ammler>peter1138: it was reported and you thought, we should wait until newports
03:39<@Rubidium>as it'd allow you to dump passengers (or any cargo) on the buoy till another ship picks them up and such
03:40<Noldo>and there would be no need for docks
03:42<Ammler>Rubidium: you can't limit the capacity of a station? Else it might be an idea to limit the buoys with a cap of i.e. only 10 or so.
03:43<Ammler>So you would need all the time a ship there...
03:44<@peter1138>A buoy is a buoy.
03:44<iAN_>okay.
03:44<@peter1138>Ammler: Reported to *me* ?
03:44<iAN_>so I need the newgrf for fishing including a station
03:44<Ammler>no, in this channel...
03:44<@peter1138>I bet it wasn't reported on flyspray, but I can't tell as its search feature is useless.
03:45<iAN_>Rubidium: Do you have an URL for this newgrf?
03:45<LA>grfcrawler.tt-forums.net i guess
03:45<Ammler>yeah, it's no a bug and "waiting for new_ports" was good for me... :-)
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03:46<Ammler>iAN_: from ECS
03:47<iAN_>ECS Agricultural vector?
03:47<Ammler>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSAVFishingGrounds
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04:00<iAN_>Do I need the new Cargo Set?
04:00<iAN_>(to use the ECS vector?)
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04:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13369 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
04:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: remove duplication of network configuration settings between NetworkSettings and NetworkGameInfo.
04:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: failure of changing the server password during games because the password wasn't duplicated properly.
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04:06<Ammler>[10:00] <iAN_> Do I need the new Cargo Set? <-- no, there are already new cargos with it :-)
04:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13370 /trunk/src/ (network/network_internal.h openttd.h variables.h): -Codechange: move the VARDEF stuff from openttd.h to variables.h so one doesn't need to include openttd.h before variables.h.
04:07<Ammler>(it might be not compatible)
04:07<iAN_>Ammler: thanks. I have to remove the newCargo
04:09<Ammler>iAN_: a small advise: do not use all ECS vectors at once :-)
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04:15<iAN_>Ammler: to late
04:15<iAN_>Ammler: right now trying to figure out how they work at all
04:19<Ammler>:-)
04:21<iAN_>hrm...
04:21-!-elmex [~elmex@e180066032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
04:21<iAN_>I have multiple "passenger-named" hoppers, transporting anything except passengers
04:21<iAN_>also I have _no_ iron ore hopper, which is needed for the iron ore
04:22<iAN_>which grf is needed to have the right set of engines and trailers for those ECS-stuff?
04:23-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-110-195.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
04:23<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=37810
04:23<@peter1138>that should work with it
04:23<Ammler>iAN_: the wiki for ECS is really good: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSSupport
04:26<iAN_>ECSDVeh is incompatible with th DB Set 0.82 ECS extension
04:26<iAN_>uh!
04:28<Ammler>that GRF was only for testing, you shouldn't use it
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04:53<iAN_>okay. It became a lot more complicated with ECS
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05:00*LA fails at coding trams
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05:28*SandMouse says hello
05:29<SandMouse>I just tried to join the Public SandBox to get myself familiar with your gameplay. I downloaded the right revision and GRF package.
05:29<SandMouse>When I started the game I found the folowing on my console:
05:29<SandMouse>6/3/08 11:16:55 com.apple.launchd[93] ([0x0-0xa50a5].org.openttd.openttd[1247]) posix_spawnp("/Applications/Games/OpenTTD/OpenTTD.app/Contents/MacOS/openttd", ...): Bad executable (or shared library)
05:30*SandMouse is using Mac OS 10.5.3
05:30<iAN_>can you start the game as singleplayer on your machine?
05:30<SandMouse>Nope it won't start at all.
05:30<iAN_>I assume you have an own macOS version and not just the windows-files?
05:31<SandMouse>Maybe needles to say but 0.6.0. stable and 0.6.1. stable runs withouth a glitch. (inclusing the NewGRF 7.0)
05:31<SandMouse>I have both the DOS GRF data files and the WINDOWS GRF data files.
05:32<iAN_>I thought about the binaries not the grf files
05:32<iAN_>so you have a openttd mac-OS version?
05:32<SandMouse>Binaries are definately Mac. Used http://nightly.openttd.org/macosx/%4FTTD-macosx-nightly-r13346.zip
05:32<iAN_>okay.
05:32<iAN_>then I'm out of the topic. I use windowsXP
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05:33<SandMouse>The stable versions are runing jsut fine.
05:33*iAN_ . o O ( maybe thats why they are called "stable" )
05:33<SandMouse>Very True!
05:33<iAN_>So, why not join a "regular" multiplayer with your "stable" version?
05:34<SandMouse>I just recently discovered the fun of online playing. Especially the COOP games.
05:34<blathijs>Release macos binaries are built in a different manner than the nightly ones I think
05:34<blathijs>so it might be that the nightly macos binaries are simply broken
05:34<SandMouse>Well, the server I want to join uses this particular version.
05:34<blathijs>SandMouse: You should poke Bjarni when he's around, he's our Mac guy
05:35<iAN_>SandMouse: join a "regular" server and "join" a company instead of creating one
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05:36<SandMouse>Allright I'll drop Bjarni a line when he's in.
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05:37<Maedhros>SandMouse: 'tis a known problem with the nightlies and OS X 10.5, i'm afraid - http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=37762
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05:43<SandMouse>Ah! That explains it.
05:45-!-Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
05:57<iAN_>what is/are "dyes" dict.leo.org doesn't know it
05:57<@Rubidium>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dyes <- use a proper dictionary ;)
05:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13371 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r4510 ... r12924): Engine array size is not related to the ID used when setting a vehicle's name (it is vehicle type specific). Instead just test for a generic string.
05:58<iAN_>well.. "dye" is known by dict.leo.org too
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06:14*LA is soooo confuzed
06:15<dih>confuddled (mix of confused and muddled)
06:15<LA>how do I specify how many articulated parts will there be in a tram
06:16<LA>Can't find it anywhere
06:16*LA is learnign to make tram grfs
06:16<@peter1138>you use the callback
06:16<@peter1138>so you need to know action 3 2 1 chains
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06:17<LA>hmm..
06:17<LA>I just decoded /commented a big part of generic trams grf
06:17<LA>ok.. not a big part
06:18<LA>but one action0 for 3wagon tram
06:18<LA>58 bytes long
06:18<LA> 10 * 58 00 01 16 01 40 00 78 4E 02 20 03 13 04 16 06 07 07 05 08 90 09 7E 0A 48 4C 00 00 0F 20 10 02 11
06:18<LA> 71 0E FF 1C 03 17 00 12 49 16 00 00 00 00 1A 00 1B 00 1D 02 00 1E 88 01 15 24 <--- sometin like tis
06:18<LA>and you say it was useless? :
06:18<LA>:P
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06:21<@peter1138>...
06:22<@peter1138>that's not decoding
06:22<@peter1138>nor is it commenting
06:22<LA>no
06:22<ln>no, it's egladil
06:22<LA>Icommented that sprite
06:23<@peter1138>i see. do you want a medal?
06:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13372 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Cleanup: Excessive whitespace
06:23<LA>http://paste.openttd.org/13072
06:23<LA>no, I want to see how I can define the number of wagons
06:23<LA>that action0 didn't help me much
06:23<@peter1138>well no
06:23<@peter1138>as you need to use the callback
06:23<egladil>huh? what am i you say?
06:25<LA>the callback.. which one
06:25<LA>16?
06:26<LA>but that is for trains not trams :S
06:26<@peter1138>yup
06:27<LA>ok.. things would be much simpler if I understood what a callback is
06:27<LA>:P
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06:32<@peter1138>have a look at the articulated trams then
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06:34<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/o/met.nfo
06:34<@peter1138>^ for some documented trams
06:37<LA>aaaaaaaaaaa.... Why haven't I seen that before? :( :P
06:37<LA>thousand thanks peter
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06:41<@peter1138>cos i only just put it there
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06:52<SandMouse>If I manage to compile it correctly I'll dump it on the forum, ok!
06:59<eQualizer>If I choose to play scenario, difficulty setting is preset?
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07:04<dih>eQualizer: yep
07:04<dih>no
07:04<dih>not in a scenario
07:04<dih>in a save game :-P
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07:06<eQualizer>oh.
07:07<eQualizer>But I still don't understand. I start playing this scenario, I select hard difficult, but in the game, it's easy for some reason.
07:08<LA>peter1138: Sorry for annoying you again...
07:08<LA> // 10 = Articulated parts (1)
07:08<LA> 45 * 14 02 01 10 81 10 00 FF 01 ENGINE_ID FF 01 01 FF FF
07:08<LA>what there shows that it's only 1
07:08<LA>articulated part
07:09<@peter1138>01 01
07:10<@peter1138>you need to adjust the range
07:10<LA>hmm
07:10<LA>ok
07:10<LA>so if it is 01 02 for example?
07:11<LA>this is the same line in generic trams...
07:11<LA> 185 * 14 02 01 01 81 10 00 FF 01 41 80 01 02 FF 80
07:11<@peter1138>then gives you 2 extra parts, so it's 3 parts in total
07:11<@peter1138>*that
07:12<LA>and the as ff ff / ff 80 means?
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07:13<LA>the default...
07:13<@peter1138>that returns FF, which means "stop"
07:14<@peter1138>which you'd know if you read the callback documentation
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07:15<LA>sorry.. it's just that callbacks are so completely different from other var2 I've done
07:15<LA>so I'm really confuzzled
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07:16<@peter1138>they're totally the same as every other varaction2 chain
07:17<LA>AND it doesn't work :S
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07:18<LA>I probably have sth else missing somewhere
07:18<LA>but renum doesn't complain
07:18<LA>hmm... loool
07:19<LA>misc flag was not set.. now trying
07:19<@peter1138>that doesn't affect articulation
07:20<@peter1138>oh
07:20<@peter1138>unless you mean the callback mask
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07:21<LA>yes I mean this
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07:24<LA>thank you for your help peter1138
07:24<LA>I got it to wotr
07:24<LA>work*
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07:39<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13373 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp subsidy_gui.cpp): -Fix (r10210): loading of very old savegames was broken
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08:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13374 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13364): Some common compilers do not yet support 9 year old specifications.
08:12<Gekz>peter1138: rofl
08:12<Gekz>peter1138: which are these "some"
08:14<@peter1138>MSVC
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08:20<Gekz>ha
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08:48<ln>http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/maps/1900s/1942world4000.jpg
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08:51<Mchl>hello
08:53<SmatZ>hello
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09:19<iAN_>I play with all ECS vectors. my car-factory runs on "very low" even that it has max steel and max glass. Although it has _no_ dyes it doe not accept it at all
09:19<iAN_>What should I do now?
09:33<dih>post your questions in the forums
09:33<dih>where it say "do you have trouble with ecs vetcotrs?" or something like that
09:34<dih>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34758
09:34<LA>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34758
09:34<LA>oi
09:34<dih>hehe
09:34<dih>;-P
09:34<dih>trallalla
09:34*dih runs
09:34*LA slaps dih
09:34<SmatZ>:-)
09:34<dih>@kick LA
09:34<dih>:-P
09:35<LA>you aint mod here :P
09:35<Mchl>trallalla again...
09:35<dih>op.. it's called op
09:35<LA>whatever
09:35<+glx>iAN_: we are not in charge of grfs bug
09:35<dih>no - i was hoping someone would play a game with me
09:35<Mchl>a game?
09:35<dih>but da bot aint friendly enough
09:35<LA>and now you can't kick me from anywhere :P
09:36<dih>you still wanna play wwottdgd right? :-P
09:36<LA>naah
09:36<dih>just kidding
09:36<LA>why should I want
09:36<LA>some weird openttd geeks just gathering on some freaky server
09:36<LA>^^
09:36<LA>or not
09:37<dih>:-P
09:38<LA>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=91946
09:38<SmatZ>:-)
09:39<Ammler>LA just saw your post in tt-froums, had to look 2 times :-)
09:39<LA>:)
09:39<LA>those chimearas are RVs there
09:39<Ammler>yeah, you said it already in the post...
09:39<LA>thanks to peter113 who helped me coding
09:40<SmatZ>hehe, whouldn't be changing train station GRF to look like road stop easier?
09:40<LA>lol
09:40<LA>and changing chimeara to run on normal tracks
09:40<LA>prolly yes
09:40<@peter1138>articulated chimaera!
09:41<SmatZ>:-)
09:41<SmatZ>so they are two road vehicles?
09:41<SmatZ>interesting :)
09:41<Ammler>but you can't build articulated rvs self, choosing different waggons?
09:41<SmatZ>not in OTTD
09:41<LA>well.. you can refit them..
09:41<SmatZ>:)
09:41<@peter1138>LA... that is sick :D
09:41<LA>And I can add parameters how long they'll be
09:42<dih>LA: you could make a 5 tile long articulated tram :-P
09:42<Ammler>but then all rvs needs to be same length
09:42<@peter1138>all?
09:42<SmatZ>let it run anound a block, it will crash/block itself ;)
09:43<LA>Ammler: I could make many different rvs
09:43<Ammler>the parameter setting will influence the whole type, I guess.
09:43<LA>yes
09:43<LA>but if I have two different IDs or more
09:43<LA>the main problem is speed though
09:44<@peter1138>Ammler: there are in theory 128 parameters per GRF
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09:44<Ammler>can't you refit to different lengths?
09:45<LA>no
09:45<@peter1138>nope
09:45<LA>peter1138: But openttd doesn't allow giving them so much.. Atleast via gui
09:45<LA>some sort of character limit I guess
09:47<iAN_>okay. posted a bug-report and after it was closed (invalid) I posted the savegame into the TT-forum
09:47<iAN_>:-/
09:47<@Belugas>a limit??? Let's BREAK IT!
09:47<Ammler>:-)
09:47<@Belugas>ho... no... we have to ask every so-called-coders on ttdpatch if we can :P
09:47<SmatZ>iAN_: ask to reopen that bugreport once it is proven it is OTTD bug, we can't help if it is not
09:47<@Belugas>grf coders... that is
09:48<SmatZ>[15:47:19] <Belugas> a limit??? Let's BREAK IT! <--- lol, you are like people @ tt-forums :)
09:48<+glx>and ECS vectors are known to be WIP
09:48<iAN_>well.. I dowloaded ottd and it seems buggy. I'm not familiar nor skilled how to prove that it is the fault of ottd
09:48<SmatZ>iAN_: ask at tt-forums
09:48<iAN_>SmatZ: : done
09:48<LA>you have downloaded ecs vectors and they seem buggy
09:48<SmatZ>hehe
09:49<iAN_>So. ECS vectors are not part of ottd?
09:49<Ammler>not only
09:49<iAN_>means they would work in, lets say ttdpatch, too?
09:49<LA>lol
09:49<@Belugas>iAN_, flyspay is there to deal with bugs in the program itself. Since your report is not one that fit in the category, it has to be closed. I'm sorry for the time you've spent on it, but it was really not the best place for that
09:50<@Belugas>SmatZ, yeah, i think i have been contaminated ;)
09:50<Ammler>you can copy&paste it to tt-forums :-)
09:50<iAN_>I'm not upset/angry that it was closed. I just want to know, whom to report that "my vehicle factory" does not work as expected
09:50<LA>me and dih gave you the link
09:50<+glx>report it to George in the ECS problems post
09:50<iAN_>LA: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34758&p=696191#p696191
09:50<SmatZ>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=696191#p696191 already reported ;-)
09:51<LA>iook.. now wait until some wise guy answers
09:51<iAN_>ok. waiting.
09:51<LA>it could take more that 5 minutes just for you to know
09:52<SmatZ>:-)
09:52<iAN_>another thingy. when the trains go arround and don't stick to their schedules.. is that part of ottd? or does this belong to the tt-forum too?
09:53<LA>that is prolly a problem of malfunctioning junctions
09:53<iAN_>It occurs everytime they go into a depot for servicing
09:53<Touqen>I'm pretty sure timetabling is a ottd only feature.
09:53<Touqen>iAN_: Your schedules are too tight.
09:53<dih>:-P
09:53<Touqen>You should add in some wiggle room so they can recover.
09:53<dih>aye
09:54<LA>depending if he means schedules as timetables or as orders
09:54<LA>I think the latter
09:54<LA>anyway, I'll be back later
09:54<iAN_>Touqen: I think I never used the "timetable" and my trains just have two orders. Go to A and full load, then go to B then repeat
09:55<Ammler>iAN_: just expand your station
09:55<Touqen>Well, I place schedules as being synonymous with timetable.
09:55<Maedhros>timetables and full load don't really go together
09:55<LA>iAN_: You have to make sure that the train is able to continue to it's destination form the depot
09:55<Ammler>and your ECS Problem is fixed, not every part of the factory accept everything
09:55<LA>or it will not find path and will circle around in some x places
09:55<iAN_>sometimes they just leave the station (after waiting to get 100%) drive into a depot, go back to the station where they just waited to be full loaded, and then leave for the dropoff station. IMHO they should visit the dropoff right after depot, not driving back where they came from first
09:56<LA>take it as this: the drivers changed and the second driver didn't know where should he go
09:56<iAN_>Ammler: sorry?
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09:57<LA>iAN_: Just make sure that the station coverage is on and then cover the whole factory with it :P
09:57<iAN_>okay.. trying to fix it
09:57<Ammler>if you expand your station nearer to the factory, it will accept dys
09:57<iAN_>.. :-)
09:57<Ammler>e
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09:58<Ammler>GRF settings seems ok
10:00<Ammler>if you play with ECS, I recommend to use TTRS, for better support...
10:02<Ammler>hmm the pack is outdated, we should update it
10:02<iAN_>what is TTRS?
10:02<@peter1138>'total town renewal set'
10:03<LA>Ammler: Then let it be the last update before wwottdgd
10:03<iAN_>aaah.. I wondered where to deliver cars and gasoline
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10:03<Ammler>LA, that's for sure :-)
10:04<iAN_>what is wwottdgd?
10:04<LA>World Wide OpenTTD Game Day
10:04<LA>Organized by #openttdcoop
10:04<dih>not quite
10:04<LA>?
10:04<@Belugas>hacked by...
10:04<LA>isn't it
10:05<@Belugas>lol
10:05<dih>originized as a cooperation of #openttdcoop and openttdFairPlay
10:05<LA>well.. you are coop too
10:05<iAN_>I got TTRS V3.02a
10:05<dih>i was not related to #openttdcoop at that time
10:05<Ammler>with friendly hacks from #openttd devs
10:05<LA>well.. but that was wwottdgd1
10:05<dih>in fact, started off with a chat Ammler and I had
10:05<dih>good old times :-P
10:06<LA>I think you should make the general thread there
10:06<LA>about it
10:06<LA>in forums
10:06<LA>to announce the upcoming event whenever it is
10:07<Ammler>we need a "killer" patch/hack
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10:07<@Belugas>[10:03] <Ammler> with friendly hacks from #openttd devs <--- tut tut tut... retired dev
10:07<Ammler>:-)
10:07<LA>killer?
10:07<dih>Belugas: not at that time :-P
10:08<Ammler>(something specail)
10:08<dragonhorseboy>how often have any of you heard of a wagon (even ex-oldboxcar or so) being converted to act as a converter car with one coupler type on one end and another on other end?
10:08-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BA9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:08<dih>dragonhorseboy: never, why?
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10:08<LA>If I knew what you talked about or understood, then I think I'd heard of it :P
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10:08<LA>5 and a half times
10:09<iAN_>question: On a map (512x512) using all ECS and TTRS .. what should I do first? Without ECS I would go for coal->powerplant. but now?
10:09<dih>iAN_: read the tt-forums
10:09<dih>they discuss it
10:09<dih>search for ecs topic subjects
10:09<iAN_>dih: and your opinion is which?
10:09<dih>i just told you!
10:09<dih>read the forums
10:09<dih>i dont play (ecs)
10:10<dragonhorseboy>dih just wondering about it .. could be interesting if one was used to allow historic trainsets to run in another country (can we say buffer&chain foreign cars to an usa knuckle diesel locomotive?)
10:10<@Belugas>NEVAR trust trhe opinion of a system admin!
10:10<dih>LOL
10:10<dih>nice one Belugas :-P
10:10<@Belugas>noting against you ;) i
10:10<@Belugas>m
10:11<Ammler>iAN_: did you create a new game?
10:11<@Belugas>just in a facetious mood, due to a tedious job
10:11<iAN_>Ammler: Jawohl!
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10:11<Ammler>else you should check, if the cargo have payments
10:11<Ammler>then just use the cargo type, which HAS payment.
10:11<iAN_>?!
10:11<SandMouse>Can I drop a question about compiling?
10:12<iAN_>Ammler: You mean, some of my (available) cargos will not be paid for?
10:12<Ammler>if you added the GRF after start
10:12<dih>iAN_: check wiki.openttd.org :-)
10:12<@Belugas>SandMouse, why do you ask?
10:12<dih>then you can find out how to check the payment rates :-P
10:12*iAN_ . o O ( omg )
10:13<iAN_>ok, added (all) grfs, applied, quit, restarted, checked grf settings, created new game
10:13<dih>SandMouse: only one question per day allowed here
10:13<@Belugas>iAN_, dih has a point. Reading the wiki might give you even more answers that you have questions :)
10:13<SandMouse>My source compiles fine, except it does not see a revision number. (checking revision... no detection)
10:13<dih>yes you can ask a question, but now you have to wait until tomorrow
10:13<@Belugas>SandMouse: doyou have svn or tortoise installed?
10:13<SandMouse>@ dih :-)
10:14<+glx>SandMouse: how did you get the sources?
10:14<SandMouse>I downloaded the source from openttd.org
10:14<+glx>then it's normal
10:14<+glx>version detection works only with svn, git or mercurial
10:15<SandMouse>I need the 'r' number in, in order to play online, else the game won't let me select a server.
10:15<iAN_>I read all of the http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECS ECS-available infos.
10:15<dih>./configure --revision=r1
10:16<planetmaker>SandMouse: get the svn client from the subversion page --- or follow dih's advice (not recommended) :P
10:16<dih>hihi
10:16<SandMouse>Thanks guys. Let me try your suggestions.
10:21*SandMouse is running OpenTTD r13346 on Mac OS 10.5.3. online. Thank you for helping me!
10:22<dih>SandMouse: one other hint
10:22<dih>no need to ask if you may ask!
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10:24<Eddi|zuHause3>ln: that world would never have worked...
10:26<Eddi|zuHause3>ln: did you notice the overuse of the word "demilitarized"?
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10:44<iAN_>ok. new question: the refrigerated hopper can be refit to paper(refrigerated), fruit(refrigerated) and fish(refrigerated)
10:44<iAN_>how can I transport food(refrigerated)?
10:45<dih>by loading food!
10:45<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: Canada is USA in that map
10:45<Gekz>hahaha
10:45<Eddi|zuHause3>paper? you probably have an incompatible mix of grfs
10:45<dih>Gekz: hehe, that'll piss 'em off :-D
10:46<Eddi|zuHause3>Gekz: yeah, the USA assume they can just go along and "unify" countries which did not even take part in the war
10:46<Gekz>lol
10:47<Gekz>British Commonwealth of Nations
10:47<Gekz>Australia was independant after 1901
10:47<Gekz>and NZ before that I think
10:47<+glx>LA: your "road->rail" screenshot is nice :)
10:47<Eddi|zuHause3>what is your opinion of "independent"?
10:47<Eddi|zuHause3>the queen of britain is still the head of state in australia
10:47<Gekz>It wont fit on one line.
10:47<dih>glx: where is that screeny
10:47<Gekz>it's a phallacy
10:47<Gekz>but lets not get into that
10:48<Gekz>we aren't owned by Britain
10:48<+glx>dih: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=696176#p696176
10:48<Gekz>next referendum and we're a republic
10:48<dih>thanks ;-)
10:48<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: the Queen of England is the figurative head of state
10:48<Gekz>she has no power whatsoever due to the constitution
10:48<Eddi|zuHause3>that is not the point ;)
10:48<Gekz>yes, it is.
10:49<Gekz>so her head is on the back of a coin
10:49<Gekz>gives you something to look at when shes dead
10:49<Eddi|zuHause3>the head of state in germany is the president, but he also has no power whatsoever
10:49<Gekz>I quite like having a Queen as a powerless figurehead
10:49<Gekz>it keeps the parliament in line
10:50<Gekz>none of them are at the top :P
10:50<@peter1138>is that not some power?
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>the point is, "independent" is a different thing
10:50<Gekz>peter1138: false power.
10:50<Gekz>Eddi|zuHause3: in the eyes of law.
10:50<Gekz>we are independant
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>what you describe is more like "autonomic"
10:50<Gekz>we aren't a colony of the UK
10:51<Eddi|zuHause3>but it did not say "colony"
10:51<Eddi|zuHause3>it said "commonwealth"
10:51<Eddi|zuHause3>and that is still the case
10:51<Gekz>british commonwealth
10:51<Gekz>signifies a colony
10:51<Gekz>symbolises ownership
10:52<Eddi|zuHause3>have you any knowledge of history? you sound like an american...
10:53<Maedhros>umm, surely Australia *is* part of the Commonwealth?
10:53<Eddi|zuHause3>after the desaster with the united states, the general course of the british empire was generally: conlony -> dominion -> commonwealth
10:53<Gekz>Maedhros: yes, but it's simply "The Commonwealth"
10:53<Gekz>it's not "The British Commonwealth"
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>each such word can be prefixed by "british"
10:54<Gekz>and rofl, at the bottom of that map "Hebrewland"
10:55<Eddi|zuHause3>Gekz: well, that basically qualifies under the category of "working title"
10:55<@Belugas>as long as the queen is on coins, i think we're still on "Commonwealth", whatever that word still means, apart not paying duties when receiving stuff from ebay :D
10:55<Gekz>lol
10:56<Gekz>there's a few upsides of being in the Commonwealth
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10:56<Gekz>Commonwealth passports, Commonwealth games
10:56<Gekz>less tariffs
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11:02<Eddi|zuHause3>luckily, the USA learned that a suppressed and humiliated germany was the entire cause of the 2nd world war, and wanted to create a strong germany to not repeat that mistake
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12:09<Ammler>patch request: option to skip some Action7 ;-)
12:11<LA>Ammler: There was some basehead who provided already crack to it.. Wasn't very welcomed
12:11<Maedhros>well that's an easy one. no
12:11<Ammler>:-)
12:12<Ammler>LA, that's why I ask for a patch, changing grf isn't nice, indeed.
12:12<LA>you were serious?
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12:13<@Rubidium>what about loading some arbitrary binary data, then changing some bits/bytes in it before passing it to an executer?
12:13<Ammler>and OzTransLtd didn't mention it in the changelog, he changed that hidden...
12:14<@Rubidium>cause as far as I can tell OzTransLtd is not against said method of getting non-working stuff working
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12:15<@Rubidium>*or* OzTransLtd is against TTDP
12:15<Ammler>well, the problem is that some people using those feature complaind to the grf author instead here
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12:17<Ammler>that feature is still experimental and grf authors shouldn't code againt it yet.
12:17<Ammler>they should wait until it's available in a stable release
12:17<@Rubidium>OzTransLtd uses his 'powers' to force other people to change stuff
12:17<Ammler>he uses power to force other people to think like him
12:18*LA starts callin yorick eigenaar from now on
12:19<Ammler>I fear, dbset 0.9 will also have those ugly hack
12:19<@Belugas>I am publically claiming that all canadians do not have the same mentality the OzTransLtd shows
12:19<Ammler>oztransltd is german, isn't
12:19<@Belugas>he is?
12:19<Ammler>why do I think, all people are germans :-)
12:19<@Belugas>either way
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12:23<@Belugas>and on second though... i don't care about Oz and all that bullshit...
12:23<@Belugas>there are other grf coders (real ones) that are way more enjoyable (and knowledgable) than him
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12:24<Ammler>oh, Oz is another person, imo :-)
12:24<@Belugas>OzTransLtd
12:25<@peter1138>Ammler: "isn't he" not "isnt'"
12:25<Ammler>but he speaks german quite well
12:27<@Belugas>he could dance on his head while singing the blues that it would not matter
12:29<Ammler>peter1138: oh, you just corrected me, thanks :-)
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12:34<Ammler>well, I post a bugreport
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12:51<Eddi|zuHause3>what "hack" are people talking about?
12:51<hylje>what the hack
12:52<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=696241#p696241
12:53<Ammler>he just checked if the patch setting is enabled, not if there are really other sets loaded...
12:54<Ammler>thats why I call it "hack"
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12:54<@Belugas>i call that terrorism
12:55<Ammler>:-)
12:56<SmatZ>hehe
12:56<Ammler>you might still want to load multiple road sets or what ever...
12:57<@Belugas>you know what I have in my head? The strange idea of rejecting all canadian sets from loading. Every one of them, even earlier versions.
12:57<Ammler>heh
12:57<Ammler>it _is_ the best eyecandy set available atm...
12:58<Ammler>really like those reverse features
12:58<@Belugas>I concede him the right to report any bugs he wants, i concede him the right to block the grf ever to load. I deny him the right to put some kind of a terrorism plot to make HIS stuff the way he wants it to be. that is bad and counter productive
12:58<Ammler>I thought, since you made those feature working in ottd, you and OzTransLtd are friends
12:59<@Belugas>Ammler, you are not friend with someone who stabs you in the back TWICE
13:00<@Belugas>I though too he would come to us and tell about his problems. no.. he just pull the plug off...
13:00<@Belugas>hell...
13:00<@Belugas>it worked the last time...
13:00<+glx>we added features when he used the right way to ask
13:00<@Belugas>why not now??
13:00<@Belugas>yeah
13:01<+glx>even if we needed to "hack" its grf to test the features ;)
13:01<+glx>as he don't provide test cases
13:01<+glx>(it was not a direct hack but ottd lying)
13:01<Ammler>well, I can't include hacked GRFs in the coop pack
13:02<@Belugas>indeed, so don't use his e version
13:02<@Belugas>BOYCOTT THE "E"
13:02<Ammler>yeah, thanks to SVN
13:03<Ammler>well, I will hope, he releases fast a "f"
13:03<@Belugas>Better than that... boycott the Canadian Set at all!
13:03<Ammler>:-(
13:03<Ammler>that wouldn't be fair to the graphics people
13:04<Ammler>or do they all agree to OzTrans?
13:05<@Belugas>i don't know
13:07<@Belugas>I know of patch devs that are not happy with the situation either
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13:13<Wolf01>hello
13:14<@peter1138>hi
13:14<@Belugas>hello good Wolf01
13:14<@peter1138>coo, a 0 in your ip address
13:14*Prof_Frink saw someone with beef in their ipv6 address
13:15<@peter1138>feh, easy with ipv6
13:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i have seen that, too
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13:15<Eddi|zuHause3>probably dead:beef
13:16<@peter1138>babe:cafe
13:16<@peter1138>cabb:a6e
13:17<Prof_Frink>shirley 9 is more like g than 6
13:17<@peter1138>yes
13:17<@peter1138>i failed, of course
13:18<Touqen>8008463
13:18<Wolf01>hey, my phone number!
13:18<Touqen>3648008 turned upside down :D
13:18<Prof_Frink>You, of course, just want an IPv6 ending with :1138
13:18<@peter1138>of course
13:19<Prof_Frink>BOOBhgE?
13:19<@peter1138>b00b1e5
13:20<Noldo>:D
13:20<Prof_Frink>Mmm, b00b1e5
13:20<Touqen>i <3 boobies
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13:21*Prof_Frink wonders of b00b:b00b:b00b:b00b:b00b:b00b:b00b:b00b is a porn site
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13:43<fjb>Hi
13:43<SmatZ>hi
13:46<Ammler>@seen Drakoon
13:46<@DorpsGek>Ammler: I have not seen Drakoon.
13:46<Ammler>@seen Draakon
13:46<@DorpsGek>Ammler: Draakon was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 23 hours, 6 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <Draakon> *runs*
13:48<SmatZ>so he ran away
13:49<Ammler>well, this guy is a little bit annoying in the canset thread.
13:53<@peter1138>and also, don't post download links
13:53<Prof_Frink>3407!
13:57<nicfer>one question, is possible to use two different NoAIs simultaneously?
13:57<+glx>yes
13:58<+glx>but not from command line
14:01<nicfer>so, if I enable two or more of them, when an AI tries to join, it will be selected randomly from the active ones right?
14:02<Ammler>peter1138: sorry, I liked to link to thread, which contains those links
14:03<Ammler>deleted the post
14:04<+glx>nicfer: yes, unless you started openttd with -a
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14:25<nicfer>I have two problems with NoAI: one, it slows down a quite the game, two, one of the AIs get stuck
14:27<@Rubidium>nicfer: so you have two problems with an AI
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14:27<@Rubidium>cause NoAI doesn't make AIs stuck
14:27<nicfer>I have two NoAIs active
14:28<@Rubidium>and slowness is more about writing efficient AIs than about the API being slow
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14:34<nicfer>other AI trouble, it build an uncomplete track or deleted it
14:34<eQualizer>You wouldn't know why come generic tramset doesn't seem to work on subarctic scenario? I just don't get any new trams, and all the old ones just disapper from the new vehicles list.
14:35<nicfer>track of road*, it is the convoyAI
14:35<Eddi|zuHause3>eQualizer: adding a vehicle set to an existing game may have side effects
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14:36<Eddi|zuHause3>eQualizer: try "resetengines" on the console
14:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13375 /trunk/ (22 files in 3 dirs): -Add: logging of actions that could possibly cause desyncs and crashes to simplify debugging. See readme.txt for details
14:36<@Belugas>further on, could it be that trams are not meant to be in subtropic?
14:36<@Belugas>ho..
14:36<Eddi|zuHause3>arctic, not tropic :)
14:36<@Belugas>subarctic
14:36<@Belugas>yeah
14:36<eQualizer>Belugas: According to the http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=32441&st=0&sk=t&sd=a topic, yes. Only toyland isn't supported.
14:37<eQualizer>Eddi|zuHause3: Thanks, resetengines did help.
14:37<nicfer>also, the lag is gone
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16:26<Wolf01>'night
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17:25<Chaladirnik>hi been away from the game for almost a year... did the ai improve to some extent?
17:25<@Rubidium>no
17:26<Touqen>It actually got dumber.
17:26<Touqen>They've dubbed it GWBushAI
17:26<@Rubidium>Touqen: lies!
17:26<@Rubidium>it didn't get dumber
17:26<Touqen>It ruins the game world economy.
17:26<@Rubidium>it's just the rest of the OTTD world that got smarter
17:26<Touqen>The price of oil goes through the roof.
17:27<Chaladirnik>well thats too bad but thx anyway
17:27<Touqen>Chaladirnik: You can play multiplayer.
17:28<@Rubidium>there's a project to make a (set of) better AIs, but that's not going to be in a stable release any time 'soon'
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17:44<@peter1138>nini
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17:49<Eddi|zuHause3>:o ... he quit without his quitmessage!
17:50<Touqen>aww
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17:50<Touqen>something something something necrophilia something
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17:53<Sacro>it's a wonderful story with a small section about necrophilia?
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18:27<sanity>Hai, I'm trying to start an dedicated OpenTTD server, but got some problem. I've opened ports but the server seem not to connect with the master server. It's just "advertising" 4times in a row and nothing happens
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18:28<+glx>seems the ports are not open correctly
18:28<sanity>I've Mkay
18:28<sanity>Oh
18:28<sanity>-I've
18:29-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|afk
18:29<sanity>Hmm, I can find it on the "Internet" list in openttd, but not on openttd.org/servers.php
18:31<SpComb>sanity: have you added it manually with "Add server"?
18:31<SpComb>have you opened the UDP port as well?
18:31<sanity>yes, both TDP and UDP
18:32<sanity>uhm, how do you mean?
18:32<SpComb>the in-game server list
18:32<SpComb>if you add it in there, it sticks around on the server list just like the ones fetched from the master server
18:32<sanity>Mkay
18:34<SpComb>is this nat port forwarding or a direct firewall?
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18:35<sanity>Was that for me?
18:36<SpComb>yes
18:36<sanity>Uhm, i dunno. Just port forwarded in both my FON-router (WLAN) and my wired router
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18:37<SpComb>do you forward the same port as what openttd is running on?
18:37<SpComb>iirc, if you run openttd on port 3979, you need to also forward port 3979
18:38<sanity>Yes
18:38<SpComb>NAT may also mangle the source port of your UDP packets
18:39<SpComb>I'm trying to recall how the master server code works
18:39<sanity>Mkay :P
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18:41<SpComb>indeed
18:41<SpComb>if OpenTTD is running behind a NAT and sends a packet to the ms from port x, then it may well arrive at the ms with a source port of y
18:41<+glx>blame the router for that
18:42<@Rubidium>SpComb: that doesn't cause trouble
18:42<SpComb>I presume this is going to happen with a 100% probability if you have two source IP addresses behind the NAT sending packets to the same destination port from the same source port
18:42<SpComb>Rubidium: the masterserver looks up response packets with both ip and port
18:42<@Rubidium>the client sends the port that OpenTTD is listening on in an advertise message to the ms
18:43<SpComb>yes, the local source port as behind the nat
18:43<SpComb>the ms sends a UDP packet to port x, and then gets a reply from port y
18:43<@Rubidium>the ms then tries to connect to the IP of the received packet (IP might be mangled by NATs) at the IP given in the packet
18:44<SpComb>although hmm
18:44<SpComb>UDP NAT is more complicated than that
18:44<@Rubidium>if that succeeds the ms gets a reply from the server and replies back to the server over the port the advertise packet was send
18:44<@Rubidium>this works because of the NAT that remembers that the reply packet needs to be relayed to somewhere
18:44<SpComb>that's the ms-advertise response packet which is irrelevant in this case
18:45<sanity>Btw, could someone just check if you can find a server namned "My Tie Is F*ucked" in the Internet-list in OpenTTD?
18:45<SpComb>my port-x-port-y example is actually wrong, because this is unsolicated udp "requests" sent to the NAT device, which aren't associated with packets sent out
18:45<sanity>In that case everything is just fine
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18:45<@Rubidium>sanity: if it is in servers.openttd.org it is, otherwise it isn't
18:46<sanity>Mkay
18:46<@Rubidium>as it isn't at servers.openttd.org it isn't in the serverlist at clients
18:46<+glx>sanity: but if you give ip and port I can try to see it "manually"
18:46<sanity>81.227.194.173:3979
18:48<+glx>server offline
18:48<+glx>clearly a forwarding/firewall problem
18:48<sanity>Mkay
18:50<SpComb>double NAT is probably your issue
18:51<sanity>mhm
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19:59<@Belugas>MKay?? is it a okay but not as positive as a okay since it's a letter minus one? M->O ?
19:59<@Belugas>strange...
19:59<@Belugas>so... same as xes ?
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20:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13376 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp):
20:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Feature: Add access to current long year and date from Action 7/9/D and VarAction2 (23/24 or A3/A4)
20:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Add access to (long format) building year, in Variational Action2 Variable 49 for Vehicles
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 04 00:00:13 2008