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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-05

---Logopened Thu Jun 05 00:00:13 2008
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02:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: miham * r13384 /trunk/src/lang/ (19 files): (log message trimmed)
02:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-06-05 08:15:43
02:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 fixed, 6 changed by tucalipe (15)
02:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: catalan - 9 fixed by arnaullv (9)
02:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: croatian - 13 fixed by knovak (13)
02:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: czech - 33 fixed by Hadez (33)
02:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: danish - 47 fixed by ThomasA (47)
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03:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13385 /trunk/src/articulated_vehicles.cpp: -Fix (r12137): In the purchase list, CB36 for capacity was not called for the first part of rail and road vehicles.
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05:20<ln>CAPS LOCK DAY?
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05:29<blathijs>wolfy: Are you the wolf from the forum that is working on the S60 port?
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05:30<wolfy>nope
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05:31<blathijs>:-)
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06:00<Noldo>what does livery override actualy do?
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06:02<@peter1138>changes the image based on the engine
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06:02<Pikka>lies!
06:02<Pikka>!logs
06:02<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
06:03<@peter1138>logs!
06:03<@peter1138>!lies
06:03<@peter1138>?
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06:03<Pikka>oh alright, true then
06:03<Noldo>wagon has some kind of default appearance and the optional ones that are selected by the front engine of the train?
06:05<Pikka>yes noldo
06:06<Noldo>but tha canset makes is not willing to make a pure generic appearance and optionals for the engines in the same set?
06:11<@peter1138>shocking, us petrol prices are not an all time high
06:11<@peter1138>at half of what we pay!
06:12<Pikka>noldo: no idea, you'd have to ask the maker
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06:12<@peter1138>s/not/now/ :o
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06:16<Tom4>:@
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06:25<@peter1138>http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8858/11462391370f38edc01ohw6.jpg
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06:34<Ailure>heh
06:34<Ailure>that's... diffrent
06:34<Ailure>Imagine the nois levels in the building though
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06:40<dih>say i wanted to map a clients unique_id to a company_id
06:40<dih>how could i go about doing that?
06:40<dih>i mean
06:41<dih>what kind of var would i need
06:41<Gekz>peter1138: wtf lolo
06:42<dih>forget my question, have an aswer :-P
06:42<@Rubidium>peter1138: isn't that one in Osaka?
06:45<@peter1138>i have no idea
06:46<@Rubidium>yeah, it is: http://maps.google.co.jp/?ie=UTF8&ll=34.697987,135.489568&spn=0.004058,0.008132&t=h&z=18
06:46<@Rubidium>I drove in a bus on the road just behind that building
06:46<TiberiusTeng>hello folks, I've updated the NewGRF GUI patch to make it horizontally scalable.
06:47<TiberiusTeng>wanna play some OpenGL code from now :p
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06:49<@Rubidium>Ailure: Japanese cars are more silent than the stuff running in Europe (which is quiet with respect to the US)
06:50<Ailure>heh perhaps
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07:00<mikegrb>http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8858/11462391370f38edc01ohw6.jpg
07:00<mikegrb>awww
07:00<mikegrb>I too slow
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07:08<@peter1138>Rubidium: tyre noise is still there though
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07:25<Tim>Do you already know that the Industry-List does not work properly anymore?
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07:26<iAN_>hi again
07:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13386 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Fix: global currency/units setting being overriden when loading a savegame.
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07:31<SmatZ>hi
07:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13387 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: industry directory sorting not working correctly (= != ==)
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07:35<Tim>hi smatz
07:35<SmatZ>hello Tim
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07:41<planetmaker>nine minutes patch time. Now that was fast.
07:41<Tim>Wow, cool
07:42<Tim>Time to get the next nightly ;-)
07:42<planetmaker>he. next svn :)
07:42<Tim>And thanks Rubidium :) Hate playing without that feature...
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07:45<Tim>Yes, svn... I'll see if i can work that out^^
07:45<planetmaker>which os?
07:45<Tim>win32
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07:46<planetmaker>hm, sorry, no experience with developing there...
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08:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13388 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_type.h newgrf.cpp table/engines.h): -Codechange: Remove "my invented flag for something that is a wagon"
08:10-!-XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
08:11<@orudge>"-Fix: global currency/units setting being overriden when loading a savegame." <-- hmm, I never thought of that as a bug, more as of "well, this game was played with dollars, so that's how I'm going to give it to you" :P
08:12<Gekz>yeah
08:12<Gekz>that's how I took it to be
08:12<Gekz>but the keyword "global"
08:12<@orudge>ah
08:12<Gekz>does that mean that savegame is that currency, but the default once you exit is still what you had it as
08:12<Gekz>?
08:12<@orudge>that's what I was just going to ask :p
08:12<Gekz>because that's how I read it
08:13<@peter1138>orudge: i think it means that it overrode your defaults with whats in the game
08:13<@orudge>I'm guessing not, but haven't actually looked at the commit code
08:13<@orudge>peter1138: right
08:13*orudge toodles off to Tesco
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08:48<TiberiusTeng>is anybody here familiar with OTTD's graphics rendering system?
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08:49<TiberiusTeng>I'm now trying to figure out if it caches unchanged region ...
08:49<@peter1138>that all depends on the real question
08:49<TiberiusTeng>(looks like so)
08:49<@peter1138>only dirty areas are redrawn, yes.
08:50<Progman>TiberiusTeng: http://docs.openttd.org/group__dirty.html
08:50<TiberiusTeng>thanks.
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08:51<TiberiusTeng>so if I'm writting a blitter, I should assume that previously drawn contents never get cleared between redraw
08:52<@peter1138>might depend on the circumstances
08:52<@peter1138>from ottd's point of view, only the dirty bits are redrawn, heh
08:53<TiberiusTeng>yeah that'
08:53<TiberiusTeng>that's fine
08:53<+glx>and if there are too many dirty zones then the screen is fully redrawn
08:53*peter1138 stopped work on an opengl blitter due to issues :o
08:54<SmatZ>:-(
08:54<TiberiusTeng>ha, that's what I'm trying now
08:54<TiberiusTeng>but the infrastructure is way too biased toward a raster-based system
08:55<@peter1138>just a little. if you need to you can ignore the dirty areas and redraw the whole thing
08:55<@peter1138>but that gets slow :)
08:55<TiberiusTeng>I've found a (quick) way to let GPU handle palette-based textures with fragment shaders
08:56<@peter1138>i didn't use shaders, just cached the palettes, heh
08:56<+glx>so you are using hardware acceleration?
08:56<TiberiusTeng>yeah
08:57<@peter1138>my problems with opengl came from other windows rendering over ottd
08:57<@peter1138>with no event to handle that
08:57<@peter1138>in theory it should be simple really
08:57<TiberiusTeng>I think it's very possible to draw original GRF color-animated sprites along with 32-bit PNG sprites very fast
08:57<@peter1138>just repaint the whole lot
08:57<@peter1138>it is easily possible
08:57<@peter1138>well, maybe not animated
08:57<@peter1138>that requires reblitting sprites
08:57<TiberiusTeng>but after digging into the code these days, I think bottleneck will be elsewhere ...
08:58<TiberiusTeng>yeah, I can use shaders to do that
08:58<TiberiusTeng>on GPU
08:58<@peter1138>nice
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08:58<Gekz>what about MNG
08:58<@peter1138>not supporting palette animation is no biggy, most people turn it off :)
08:58<Gekz>MNG is moving PNGs
08:58<@peter1138>the partial drawing of textures is annoying
08:59<TiberiusTeng>then it don't look like 'original' :p and TTRS have some very good animated buildings too
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08:59<@Rubidium>palette animation != animation
08:59<TiberiusTeng>right now I'm doing it very naively, treating a sprite as a texture, and using texture coordinates to crop out where I want
08:59<@Rubidium>smoke, explosions, industries = animation, water and fire = palette animation
09:00<+glx>crossings lights too
09:00<SmatZ>and lighthouse, crossing, right?
09:00<TiberiusTeng>if I got some working screenshots I'll post it here ...
09:00<@peter1138>even so, ttrs has some pretty well palette animated buildings :p
09:00<@Rubidium>true
09:00<@Rubidium>but so do the default graphics
09:02<TiberiusTeng>I'm also wondering if 32bpp branch will support MNG/ANGs ... :p
09:02<TiberiusTeng>looks like quite a lot of work, though
09:03<Gekz>isnt the 23bpp branch dead?
09:03<Gekz>32*
09:03<TiberiusTeng>ahh, already merged?
09:03<blathijs>MNG?
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09:03<TiberiusTeng>seems so, or I won't have these blitters sitting around ... :p
09:08<@Belugas>32bpp branch is not merged. rather, the current 32bpp code (and other blitters) has been kinda rewritten
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09:17<@peter1138>hey, i got r13388
09:17<@peter1138>all the wrong numbers doubled :o
09:17<@orudge>but not r1138?
09:17<@peter1138>well that was before my time
09:17<SmatZ>:-)
09:18<@orudge>pfftg.
09:18<@orudge>excuses.
09:18<@peter1138>i know, i should commit in the past
09:21<TiberiusTeng>ha
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10:14<iAN_>when I don't see the busses (two busses, the standard graphics) when they move from right to left, or in lists and menus, whom do I report that? The busses are visible on the map when they drive in one of the other 7 directions.
10:14<+glx>version?
10:14<+glx>any grfs?
10:15<iAN_>current version, all ECS grfs and some others
10:15<+glx>"current" is not a version ;)
10:15<iAN_>0.6.1 (?)
10:16<SmatZ>probably missing sprite for one direction
10:16<+glx>or a grf conflict
10:16<+glx>we need at least a savegame to know
10:17<iAN_>well.. thats the least problem =)
10:17<iAN_>put it where?
10:17<iAN_>dcc to you?
10:17<+glx>if you want
10:18<+glx>timeout
10:18<iAN_>okay.
10:18<iAN_>www.pordi.de/ECS.sav
10:20<+glx>grr and windows is again playing with readonly
10:22<@Rubidium>office 2007?
10:23<+glx>no
10:29<+glx>ok there's a problem
10:29<+glx>but I don't know why yet
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10:54<Wolfensteijn>hehe, one factory, producing almost 10k of goods...
10:55<Wolfensteijn>9,993 to be exact
10:55<+glx>give it more materials
10:57<Wolfensteijn>all steel and farm stuff is already being deliverd there
10:58<Wolfensteijn>http://flickr.com/photos/wolfensteijn/2553093081/sizes/o/
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11:05<eemeli>how do i disable breakdowns?
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11:08<Progman>in the game settings
11:08<Progman>(not the patch settings)
11:09<eemeli>ok found it thx
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11:18<TiberiusTeng>I've drawed the mouse cursor ... a start ...
11:18<TiberiusTeng>seems I won't have any further progress if I can't render-to-texture or do something like that :p
11:19<Gekz>Wolfensteijn: thats insane
11:19<Gekz>lol
11:19<Wolfensteijn>yes it is
11:19<Wolfensteijn>but I like it that way :)
11:21<@Belugas>only 70% transported? bof... i went to 90% once
11:21<@Belugas>but it does look like an efficient station(s) tough
11:21<Wolfensteijn>ha! got 10,054 crates of goods there now :D
11:22<Wolfensteijn>http://wolf.a61.nl/openttd/wolfensteijn.sav for the latest savegam
11:22<Wolfensteijn>savegame
11:22<Wolfensteijn>runs in 0.6.1 rc-2
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11:24<Wolfensteijn>the effiency could be better
11:24<Wolfensteijn>but I refuse to demolish everything, and build a 100% efficient network
11:27<Wolfensteijn>anyone now looking at that game?
11:28<@Belugas>at work? nevar
11:28<Wolfensteijn>aaah :(
11:31<Tim>Try to play with Realistic Acceleration
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11:31<Tim>Much more fun
11:32<Gekz>i always enable it
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11:33<Wolfensteijn>Tim> realistic acceleration is enabled
11:34<Tim>With all those 2*45 degree curves?
11:34<Gekz>:O
11:34<Gekz>SIN
11:35<Wolfensteijn>yeah :)
11:35<Wolfensteijn>slowly working on replacing those, where possible
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11:38<Tim>Oo... Well Good luck
11:39<Eddi|zuHause3>oh i hate stations like this...
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11:39<Wolfensteijn>I'm constantly revising my network, so yeah, those cornes will get changed, sometime in the future ;)
11:39*Ammler need to test TiberiusTeng modification of the GRF GUI.
11:39<Wolfensteijn>Eddi|zuHause3> what for stations?
11:41<Eddi|zuHause3>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png
11:43<Eddi|zuHause3>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Erlangen%20Transport,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png
11:43<Wolfensteijn>what's wrong with them?
11:44<Eddi|zuHause3>they are nice, yours is wrong ;)
11:44<Wolfensteijn>I'm not doing it for the realism ;)
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11:45<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm not either, i'm doing it for the aesthetics ;)
11:46<Wolfensteijn>optimizations and problem solving is what I do it for :)
11:47<Eddi|zuHause3>i do optimisation, too ;)
11:47<Wolfensteijn>I like the chaotic view of my network ;)
11:47<Eddi|zuHause3>just on much stronger bounds ;)
11:48<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: nice! (one little wish: possibility to order with the path ;-)
11:49<Eddi|zuHause3>Path! I order you!
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11:58<Ammler>hmm, well, you know what I mean... :;-)
11:59<TiberiusTeng>alright, I'll put that in mind ;)
12:00<Ammler>:-) thank you very much
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12:14<UnderBuilder>question: is possible to emulate diagonal roads by making roads not turn in one and other direction in zig-zag roads?
12:17<SmatZ>no
12:17<SmatZ>RVs still will go as it was a zig-zag sprite
12:20<LA>but how hard would it be to remove the zagging?
12:20<LA>and zigging
12:21<@peter1138>have a go ;)
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12:27<TiberiusTeng>http://sbt.idv.tw/temp/080606-ottdgl.jpg
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12:28<Eddi|zuHause3>that is about what i expected :p
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12:30<TiberiusTeng>it's still a long way toward playable ...
12:31<TiberiusTeng>but it have sound, everything moves ... heck, I can even configure patches :p
12:38<UnderBuilder>why when I do apt-get install openttd it tries to install me version 0.6.0?
12:38<Ammler>hehe, the new grf gui from TiberiusTeng can be smaller then the current one.
12:40<Touqen>UnderBuilder: Depends on whether the package maintainer made a 0.6.1 package
12:42<Ammler>because debian builds are slow, you can try with suse packman, they often made the package too early. ;-)
12:44<Ammler>http://packman.links2linux.de/package/openttd
12:46<@Rubidium>UnderBuilder: because it's not gone through the Debian build system
12:46<@Rubidium>it needs to be at least 10 days in unstable before it can go to testing
12:48<TiberiusTeng>using OpenGL to blit back to memory is much more complicated than I anticipated ...
12:48<TiberiusTeng>but looks like it do reduce CPU usage alot :D
12:52<@peter1138>hmm
12:52<@peter1138>TiberiusTeng: http://fuzzle.org/o/dump/ <-- my opengl stuff is in there
12:52<@peter1138>no pics any more though
12:54<@peter1138>dunno if it might help, but it does actually draw everything properly ;p
12:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13389 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: remove NM_CALLBACK because that information could be gathered from the fact that a callback has been specified. Patch by Cirdan.
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12:57<TiberiusTeng>thanks
13:04<Ammler>peter1138: I saw, you included some overrides in openttd?.grf, can I suggest an other combination or should I create a GRF :-) (USSet with ECS)
13:05<Ammler>(could make the patch, if you like)
13:07<Ammler>http://paste.openttd.org/13843
13:07<Ammler>(not the patch, just the GRFs, I spoke about
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13:20<Ammler>peter1138: and the patch: http://paste.openttd.org/13845
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13:33<@peter1138>DEAD :o
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14:08<DRebellion>=/
14:08<DRebellion>Bit of a problem: my trains go into depots, but then they won't come out : (
14:09<Prof_Frink>DRebellion: Is there another train in the signal block?
14:10<DRebellion>No idea what that means
14:10<DRebellion>Prof_Frink
14:10<Prof_Frink>On the same track, without passing a signal
14:10<DRebellion>Prof_Frink, I haven't specifically laid any signals?
14:10<DRebellion>*noob alert*
14:11<hylje>signals are those funky green-red poles
14:11<Eddi|zuHause3>only one train is allowed on the track
14:11<Prof_Frink>What happens if you put a signal on the track each side of the depot branch?
14:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i suggest a screenshot ;)
14:11<hylje>the game lets only one train go on one delimited block at a time
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14:12<DRebellion>It's leaving
14:12<DRebellion>!!!
14:12<DRebellion>hylje, Eddi|zuHause3, Prof_Frink, thanks : )
14:12*DRebellion goes to place signals EVERYWHERE
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14:12<hylje>watch out for deadlocks
14:13<Eddi|zuHause3>have fun :p
14:13<Eddi|zuHause3>there are good guides out there where you should place signals and where not
14:13<DRebellion>ok
14:15<Touqen>rawr
14:16<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3, doyou have e general direction for those guides? at least one ;)
14:17<Eddi|zuHause3>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Building_signals for starters maybe ;)
14:18<@Belugas>ho... i'll bookmark it for my own knowledge :D thanks a lot
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14:46<eemeli>i have 2 stations near an oil refinery, 1 for dropping oil and 1 for loading goods
14:47<eemeli>a goods train went thru the drop station (by accident) and now the refinery divides the goods, half for the drop and half for the load D:<
14:47<eemeli>is there a way to force it not to use the dropping station for storing goods?
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14:47<@Belugas>no
14:47<@Belugas>aprat from making sure no other trains are picking it on the wrong station
14:48<@Belugas>only time will do that
14:48<eemeli>no one uses it
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14:48<eemeli>1 train used it because i modified the tracks and didnt stop it in time
14:48<@Belugas>you could eventually use a autosave and restart from there...
14:48<eemeli>but that was years ago
14:49*frosch123 thinks of DaleStan's list of missing sign-cheats in ottd
14:50<LA>if no trains will pick it up, the ratings will go very low and eventually the distribution stops
14:50<LA>and it doesn't distribut 50/50 I'm certain
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15:06<Sacro>zomg an egladil
15:06<egladil>:p
15:06*Sacro goes to eat
15:06<egladil>lol
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15:14*Bjarni arrests Sacro for attempting cannibalism
15:15<@Bjarni>hmm
15:15<@Bjarni>no good
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15:15<@Bjarni>it would mean that both would have to be human beings
15:15<@peter1138>bjarni
15:15<@Bjarni>peter1138
15:15<Prof_Frink>bjarni bjarni bjarni
15:15<@Bjarni>peter1138 peter1138 peter1138
15:15<@Bjarni>err
15:16<@Bjarni>oops
15:16<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink Prof_Frink Prof_Frink
15:16<Prof_Frink>[FAIL]
15:17<hylje>epic fail!!!
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16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13390 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 4 dirs):
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: introduce usererror() for fatal but not openttd related errors. Now
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: all error() will 'crash' openttd after showing the message in win32 releases
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: (MSVC), creating a crash.log and crash.dmp (like the '!' hack used before). On
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: the other hand, usererror() will just close the game. So use error() only when
16:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: it can be helpful to debugging, else use usererror().
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17:19<eemeli>is there any way to unload a newgrf without having to start a new game
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>depends on the kind of newgrf
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>there's a newgrf setting available from within the game
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>but it is more than likely to wreak havoc
17:20<eemeli>well the grf shows disabled in the newgrf settings window
17:20<eemeli>but the remove button is grey
17:20<Eddi|zuHause3>even when you click on the grf?
17:20<eemeli>yes
17:21<Tom0004>screeny ?
17:21<+glx>is it a network game?
17:21<eemeli>yes
17:21<+glx>that's why
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17:21<+glx>you can't modify newgrfs on a running network game
17:22<+glx>as it can cause desyncs
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17:23<eemeli>i saved, loaded the game in singleplayer, removed the grf, saved, loaded in multiplayer and its gone :d
17:23<eemeli>but im still not getting electric trains :(
17:23<eemeli>stupid grf
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>you still have not said what kind of grf
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17:24<eemeli>um
17:24<eemeli>uk trains renewal or something
17:24<Tom0004>UKRS ?
17:24<+glx>ukrs has electric engines
17:24<eemeli>yes that one
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>changing a vehicle grf may require to do "resetengines" on the console
17:24*Sacro unleashes a 91
17:25<eemeli>the grf was disabled in the list
17:25<eemeli>said that there was some parameter error for climate
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, it will not work in tropical climate
17:25<+glx>it's designed for temperate
17:25<Tom0004>if it was disable, then it wasn't being used ? :s
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>and in tropical climate, the default vehicles do not provide any electrics
17:26<eemeli>D:>
17:26<eemeli>guess i found that out the hard way
17:27<Eddi|zuHause3>it would most likely tell that in the wiki ;)
17:28<Tom0004>moe then lilky tell you on the autors homepage for UKRS
17:28<Tom0004>http://www.pikkarail.com/ttdp/ukrs/download.htm
17:28<+glx>or in the readme :)
17:29<+glx>I'm sure there's one
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>or in his wiki
17:29<Tom0004>UKRS is for temp, and arc climates
17:29<Tom0004>parameter detting 1
17:29<Tom0004>personal note : forgive the spelling, i;ve been drink :(
17:30<+glx>so you're drunk ;)
17:30<Tom0004>in away yeah, cold night for me on the sofa lol
17:31<eemeli>i used the cheat menu to switch the climate and now i have electrics :))))
17:31<Eddi|zuHause3>i would really suggest you to start a new game :p
17:32<eemeli>i spent too much time on that one station D:
17:32<+glx>climate cheat may break things
17:32<eemeli>well it filled the land with snow
17:32<eemeli>other than that im good
17:33<Tom0004>any chance you could post a screenshot of this station ?
17:33<eemeli>ok just a sec
17:34<Eddi|zuHause3>eemeli: different climates have totally different cargo and industry systems, i doubt you'll get very far
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17:34<jez9999>God... i just spent over 2 hours debugging a .net app. eventually discovered that the sudden losses of session state were because the site was configured to use an app pool with multiple worker processes and my app wasn't using the ASP state server :-(
17:35<eemeli>http://koti.mbnet.fi/nuntius/yea/station.png
17:36<Eddi|zuHause3>that is the ugliest thing i have seen all day
17:37<eemeli>ty
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17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>no, really, it's even worse than Wolfensteijn's
17:38<eemeli>D:< be gentle im new
17:39<Eddi|zuHause3>http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png <- this is what a station should look like
17:39<eemeli>also my friend said that his food stations dont give food anymore :/
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17:39<eemeli>so i guess its time for a new game
17:39<Eddi|zuHause3>http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Erlangen%20Transport,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png <- or this
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17:40<Eddi|zuHause3>eemeli: i told you it will screw up industries and cargos
17:40<@Rubidium>ancient version alert :)
17:41<Eddi|zuHause3>that last one was probably with gonozal's patch pack, so 12180 or something
17:41<Eddi|zuHause3>the first one is even older
17:41<+glx>yeah transparency GUI looks different ;)
17:42<eemeli>lol water towers provide steel now
17:42<+glx>[23:32:27] <+glx> climate cheat may break things
17:43<Tom0004>thats a funky station, not to start a new game lol
17:44<Eddi|zuHause3>the first game i started with a newindustries testing version a little while before it was merged to trunk
17:44<@Rubidium>and some MiniIN parts
17:44<Eddi|zuHause3>but that screenshot is newer, it already has diagonal foundations
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17:45<Eddi|zuHause3>no, the Ravenswald game was loadable with trunk most of the time
17:45<Eddi|zuHause3>the snow is from alpine grf
17:47<Eddi|zuHause3>it was a trunk game from the time newindustries was merged, to the time yapp (v3, i think) was released
17:48<Eddi|zuHause3>only a few non-savegame-changing patches were applied
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17:50<Eddi|zuHause3>http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png <- this was my MiniIN game
17:50<Eddi|zuHause3>although it was already an "unclean" MiniIN (with bridges patch)
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17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>i kinda miss the diagonal road crossings, but they are just not possible anymore
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18:20<jez9999>i never understand people who think big, grey monstrosities are 'nice stations'
18:20<jez9999>sorry, they're shit
18:20<jez9999>i like relatively discreet stations
18:20<jez9999>without rooves so i can see the trains
18:21<jez9999>roofs rather
18:23<SmatZ>:)
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18:31<Vikthor>It's not about wheter it has roof or not, it's more about rail layout
18:32<Vikthor>Then again, it depends on the type of station, for something small where stops one railbus per hour, such grey monstrosity is surely bad, but for central station in a big city, why not?
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18:59<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3, the global variables that you mentionned is not exactly the same that mb was referring to ;)
18:59<@Belugas>i guess you were talking about those in the sources of ottd, while he was talking about the ones handled by the grfs
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19:48<Kiloman>I have a question about transfers... does it reset the travel distance?
19:48<Kiloman>say I have two farms, one within 20 tiles of a factory, and another 120 away
19:49<Kiloman>if I run the further away farm through the closer farm and transfer the goods there
19:49<Kiloman>are they worth 120 tiles, or 20 tiles, when dropped off at the factory?
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19:50<+glx>cargo packets remember their origin
19:51<Kiloman>okay... I was seeing like 12k in transfer credits on the feeder, but only like 5k on the final delivery
19:51<Kiloman>are cargo packets a FIFO?
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19:52<+glx>maybe the last section is loosing money
19:53<Kiloman>as in, the short-haul packets are highly penalized and are detracting from the value of the further ones?
19:54<@Rubidium>no, transporting packets away from the destination is penalized
19:55<Kiloman>oh really
19:55<+glx>there's an optimal distance for each speed
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19:56<Kiloman>I thought it was just distance from origin to destination
19:57<Kiloman>and then corrected for early/late penalties
19:57<@Rubidium>Kiloman: if you move something from the southern tip of map to the northern tip of the map the and transfer it there vehicle gets a virtual profit for that distance (which is equal to the transfer credit)
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19:58<Kiloman>right but that's just for show to keep from having trains run in the red on feeders
19:58<@Rubidium>if you move that cargo no to the eastern tip of the map that last vehicle will have a negative profit because the distance south->east is less than the distance south->north (which is the transfer credit)
19:59<Kiloman>right but the transfer credit doesn't actually go in the bank, right?
19:59<@Rubidium>nope
19:59<@Rubidium>it's just for show
20:00<@Rubidium>what goes to the bank is south->east given the time it took to transport it south->north->east
20:01<Kiloman>so if the distance from origin -> transfer -> destination is longer than origin -> destination
20:01<Kiloman>then transfer -> destination will run at a loss?
20:01<@Rubidium>yes (the vehicle will)
20:02<@Rubidium>at a loss from 'best' case ofcourse; the transfer->destination will stay profitable up to the point where the detour becomes really big
20:03<Kiloman>but if it sits in the transfer for too long, I'm eating up my profits and it's worthless by the time it gets there
20:03<SmatZ>if you get more money in transfer credits than for whole yourney, then the last vehicle will show a loss
20:04<SmatZ>it may happen when the transfer station is full of cargo waiting
20:04<SmatZ>because (iirc) the last stored cargo is taken as first
20:04<@Rubidium>SmatZ: lies
20:04<Kiloman>is it a fifo or a stack?
20:04<@Rubidium>it happens pseudo random
20:04<Kiloman>oh really
20:04<@Rubidium>it's a smartish stack
20:05<@Rubidium>uhm... smartish *fifo*
20:05<@Rubidium>which makes it not fifo
20:05<Kiloman>lol
20:06<Kiloman>so if I have transfer stuff that's been out of the origin for 30 days, and local stuff that was created at the depot 15 days ago, which would go first?
20:06<@Rubidium>cargo is appended at the end of the list *except* when there is another packet with the same source and time of creation, because then the packets are merged
20:06<Kiloman>I suppose I could just go look at the code
20:06<Kiloman>lol
20:06<Kiloman>is creation time when it was spawned at the origin, or when it was picked up?
20:07<@Rubidium>picked up
20:07<Kiloman>awesome
20:07<Kiloman>BTW, I really like some of the changes in the nightlies
20:10<Kiloman>I kinda miss the simplicity of the old order GUI, it takes a little longer for me to pick stuff off the dropdowns
20:10<Kiloman>but I can see where it's going with the conditionals, depots, etc
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20:11<Kiloman>and I miss being able to double-tap 's' to get back to a plain signal
20:11<Kiloman>are there new hotkeys for the rules/signals?
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20:17<+glx>there are hotkeys for some of the orders dropdown
20:17-!-Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd
20:17<+glx>in the FGHJ section of the keyboard
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20:17<Kiloman>just the same ones as before, nothing new for the new options?
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20:26<@Rubidium>Kiloman: not yet; the GUI/keybindings of that window needs some thought so it's more efficient than it's now
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20:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13391 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_town.cpp ai_town.hpp ai_town.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add: added AITown.GetNumHouses(), AITown.GetLastMonthProduction(), AITown.GetLastMonthTransported() and AITown.GetMaxProduction()
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21:26<@Belugas>and I raise my drink to Pikka, for a very constructive post!
21:26<Pikka>huzzah!
21:26<@Belugas>in fact, i'm gonna pour another one...
21:27<Pikka>I'd have one but it's a bit early for me. :P
21:27<@Belugas>hehe
21:27<@Belugas>worlds apart :)
21:27<@Belugas>you wake while i'm about to go sleeping
21:27<@Belugas>marvel of the internet!
21:29<+glx>and I'm out of sync ;)
21:29<@Belugas>yeah :D
21:30<@Belugas>that is the funniest of all !
21:30<@Belugas>i talk about you a lot, glx , to my friends who wonder how that ottd stuff can work out while we are so far away from each other
21:31<@Belugas>they can't believe an european can live on our time zone
21:32*Belugas does not feel like working on houses grf variables... let's try a few special effectson bridges instead
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22:22<@Belugas>crap
22:22<@Belugas>i broke something, it's fixed, but it's not leading me forward
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 06 00:00:47 2008