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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-08

---Logopened Sun Jun 08 00:00:58 2008
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03:37<Wolf01>hello
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04:37<TiberiusTeng>I feel there's a need to clarify how blitter layer and upper gfx layer works together ...
04:37<TiberiusTeng>for example, the 'const void *video'
04:38<TiberiusTeng>passed to most blitter functions IS the screen, only in very rare cases it's a buffer for screenshot
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04:39<TiberiusTeng>'guessing' that in blitter is really ugly ...
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04:40*TiberiusTeng trying to make CopyToBuffer/CopyFromBuffer stay 'on card'
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04:41<@Rubidium>but it's only your blitter that needs to do the guessing, right?
04:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13408 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Codechange: some stricter checking.
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04:55<TiberiusTeng>Rubidium, yep, that's true :p
04:55<TiberiusTeng>other blitters does not need to guess whether they're rendering to screen or not
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04:58<TiberiusTeng>another example is CopyToBuffer/CopyFromBuffer
04:58<TiberiusTeng>they're always paired, CopyToBuffer first then a CopyFromBuffer
04:59<TiberiusTeng>with this assumption OpenGL blitter can happily store that 'buffer' on the display card, won't need to do expensive transfers
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04:59<TiberiusTeng>but if someone tries to be creative and break this assumption, then boom!
05:03<planetmaker>I think we stumbled over a small bug in openttd which results in a divide by zero:
05:03<planetmaker>(tested with r13374): open depot. build engine, open engine view, open order menu, press d
05:04<planetmaker>--> crash to console
05:05<planetmaker>hm... is this know ^^^?
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05:06<planetmaker>Rubidium? ^
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05:06<SirBob>noAI crashes if I click "New Game" then press escape
05:06<planetmaker>belugas?
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05:08<planetmaker>peter1138: ?
05:08<planetmaker>btw: just confirmed it with new game w/o grf & clean trunk
05:08<planetmaker>r13408
05:09<@Rubidium>planetmaker: do you really think that highlighting random devs gets the issue fixed faster?
05:09<Vikthor>planetmaker: AFAIK, you should try to search on bugs.openttd.org and if nothing shows up file a bug
05:09<planetmaker>Rubidium: no.
05:10<@Rubidium>then why do it?
05:10<planetmaker>but I was actually hoping for some kind of response
05:10<planetmaker>like "bugger off, we know it" or "nice, we don't know it"
05:11<Vikthor>you realize that the might not be in even if they are online?
05:11<Vikthor>* they
05:11<planetmaker>Vikthor: I do.
05:11<@Rubidium>or realise that it's line 03:00-ish in the morning for some
05:11<planetmaker>but judging from myself, I'm online, but not always reading the window, so a highlight might help :)
05:12<planetmaker>well. at 3am I don't mind a hightlight as I'm snoring :)
05:13<@Rubidium>but then you need to scroll back later
05:13<@Rubidium>and waste his precious time on reading stuff that isn't the case anymore when he reads it
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05:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13409 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix: division by zero when one would press 'd' (skip order) when there's no order.
05:15<planetmaker>well, sorry, if it bothers you I'll refrain from it...
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05:16<@Rubidium>it's like could someone please look at this
05:16<@Rubidium>and then immediately saying "XXX, why haven't you looked at it"
05:16<planetmaker>well, yes. but I implicitly assumed you might be interested...
05:17<planetmaker>(yes, I noted you svn ci)
05:19<TiberiusTeng>thanks, Rubidium :)
05:19<planetmaker>^
05:19<TiberiusTeng>looking these bugfix commits sometimes make me feel guilty for playing wild with new codes/functions :p
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06:35<Roest>hiho
06:35<yorick>hohi
06:35<Vikthor>ohih :)
06:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13410 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: functions to perform town actions (advertising, bribing, building statues, etc).
06:38<yorick>NoAI is really progressing now
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06:42<Alberth>Roest: hai
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06:45<Roest>so what's your excuse to sit in front of your computer on a sunny sunday
06:45<Alberth>playing with widgets in boxes
06:47<Alberth>or rather, they play with me, they are not very co-operative :)
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06:48<Roest>i hear ya, i've been battling opengl and glsl the last weeks, it's not always clear why somethign doesn't work and sometimes why it works
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06:50<Alberth>what are you making?
06:51<Roest>http://schurade.googlepages.com/home
06:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13411 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: remove the return value from the thread procs because it is never used.
06:53<Alberth>wow, looking good!
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06:56<Roest>thanks, bad thing is that's still only basic stuff
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06:58<Roest>but slowly it's getting fun to work with shaders, i used to see them as something scary :)
07:02<Alberth>what is the more advanced stuff here? image analysis?
07:04<Roest>no this will only be a visualizing tool, so there will be fiber selection and tracking and stuff, not really sure where it'll end
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07:06<gilbo>anybody up for a 1 on 1?
07:07<Pikka>you filthy swine you!
07:07<gilbo>lol
07:07<gilbo>I meant on openttd
07:08<gilbo>lol
07:08<Pikka>:P
07:08<Pikka>not I, I'm afraid
07:09<gilbo>why are there so many people in this chat room who don't chat
07:09<gilbo>??
07:10<Gekz>they smell of the wee.
07:10<Pikka>maybe they just don't have anything to say
07:10<Roest>look beside you, that scare thing there is called a window, on the other side of that, the big wide thing is called the real world
07:10<Roest>square thing *
07:10<gilbo>lol
07:11<gilbo>I know but surely they would close their window down when they've finished
07:11<gilbo>weirdos
07:11<Pikka>but it's dark outside, Roest, I can't see anything!
07:11<Roest>wth do you live
07:12<gilbo>I live in Scotland, UK
07:12<Roest>and it's not dark, you need to clean it sometimes
07:12<Pikka>I live in darkistan
07:12<Pikka>or possibly australia
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07:13<Roest>ok you're excused
07:13<Gekz>Pikka: you make me more industry grfs
07:13<Gekz>!!
07:13<Gekz>\!/
07:14<Roest>i was gonna say that Gekz
07:14<Roest>less chatting, more working on industries
07:14<Pikka>psht. industry grfs!
07:14<Gekz>fix your basic industries
07:14<Gekz>to work on alpine
07:14<Roest>it's dark, so you don't have anywhere else to go anway
07:14<Pikka>they do work on alpine
07:15<Roest>isn't it like winter for you guys on the other side of the world?
07:15<Pikka>it is indeed like winter
07:15<TiberiusTeng>Roest! :D
07:15<Roest>sup
07:15<Gekz>Pikka: the oil ones dont work too well
07:15<Gekz>Pikka: you get both kinds of wells.
07:16<Gekz>note I said alpine, not subarctic
07:16<Pikka>that's because alpine is an industry grf, so you're getting industries from that too
07:16<Gekz>override that grf :P
07:17<Pikka>then it won't be alpine any more, it will just be subarctic...
07:17<TiberiusTeng>how's the patchpack? do you plan to release a binary soon, or still updating/planning some patch? :p
07:17<Gekz>Pikka: dont argue!
07:17*Gekz whips Pikka
07:18<Roest>i haven't looked at a single line of ottd code in 2 weeks or so
07:18<Gekz>I havent opened my eyes in two weeks
07:18<Roest>interesting
07:18<Roest>who feeds you?
07:19<Gekz>your mother.
07:19<Gekz>I'm sorry, I couldnt help it.
07:19<Roest>highly unlikely but still possible, hmmm i'll have to ask her about you
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07:20<TiberiusTeng>hmm ... stuck in daily life or so?
07:21<Roest>yea, working on my thesis
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07:25<Roujin>hi there
07:26*Pikka runs out the room screaming
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07:27<Roujin>wtf?
07:27<Roujin>oO
07:28<Roujin>that hurt :(
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07:47<kovan>my industries have very low production! what can I do?
07:47<SirBob>cheat?
07:48<Alberth>transport more raw materials to them?
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07:49<kovan>the mine that produces the most coal in the map produces 150/month
07:49<kovan>isn't that few?
07:49<trd>Try to raise the frequency of offloading. Maybe the mine will figure it's worth raising the production.
07:50<TiberiusTeng>thesis ... I'll soon have to worry about it too :~
07:52<kovan>if I increase the % transported, the mine will increase production?
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07:52<kovan>is there some setting related to that? i've tried that method with limited success
07:53<trd>I don't know.. It has been a while since I played OTTD. But it worked for me, in most cases.
07:53<trd>Some industries just decided they were doomed right from the start.
07:54<kovan>i remember playing some time ago and have mines producing coal for 10-wagon trains arriving non-stop
07:54<trd>.. I always played with a steady economy, and the 'more, smaller adjustments' patch.
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07:56<Alberth>kovan: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics#Industry_production
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08:14<frosch123>11:55:56 < TiberiusTeng> other blitters does not need to guess whether they're rendering to screen or not <- 32bpp-anim has to
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08:46<kovan>help! i can't build any locomotives!
08:47<dih>read the wiki, search the forums
08:47<Slowpoke_>disable the grfs you added
08:49<kovan>I don't have any grfs installed
08:49<kovan>not in this game
08:49<Progman>what is your game year atm?
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09:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13412 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Add: OTTDThreadTerminateFunc, for all thread systems, which is called when a thread is terminated. Now GenWorld- and SaveLoad-thread cleanup theirselves correctly, while Fibers don't (as that causes access-violations)
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09:08<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13413 /trunk/src/town_type.h: -Codechange: remove some enums that haven't been used for years.
09:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13414 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIStation::HasStationType(station_id, station_type) to check if a given station has a given station-type
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09:50<Home>Hey- how do i change the port when hosting a server?
09:51<Home>it keeps on coming it saying could not host the game
09:51-!-Home is now known as thejanitor
09:52<+glx>you do it in the cfg
09:52<thejanitor>i couldnt find that
09:52<thejanitor>where is it?
09:53<@peter1138>"port" somewhere, heh
09:53<thejanitor>nah i mean the cfg file
09:53<+glx>server_port in [network]
09:53<+glx>what's your OS?
09:53<thejanitor>xp
09:53<+glx>and there's a readme file ;)
09:54<+glx>cfg is in MyDocs\openttd
09:54<thejanitor>thx
09:56<thejanitor>k i changed the port and it still says could not start the network, bind() failed
09:57<+glx>what' in server_bind_ip?
09:57<thejanitor>is that a variable in the cfg?
09:58<+glx>yes
09:58<thejanitor>255.255.255.255
09:58<+glx>use 0.0.0.0
09:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13415 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AITileList_StationType, giving all the tiles on which a station of your requested type is, for a given station
09:59<kovan>Progman: 20022
09:59<kovan>2022
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09:59<thejanitor>i've got multiple installs of openttd in different places, will they all use that cfg?
10:00<thejanitor>nm it works now
10:00<thejanitor>:)
10:00<thejanitor>thanks
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10:00<+glx>yes they'll use the global one, unless you put a cfg in each install dir
10:01<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13416 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_station.hpp ai_town.cpp ai_town.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: make doxygen happy again
10:01<+glx>and that's explained in the readme
10:01<thejanitor>k next time i'll read that first :p sorry
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10:10<Gekz>guys
10:10<Gekz>has anyone seen a glyph-art train
10:10<Gekz>a single line of text using glyphs to draw a train?
10:12<Alberth>Gekz: see http://www.ascii-art.de/ascii/t/train.txt
10:12<Alberth>not a single line though
10:12<Gekz>I need a single line
10:12<Gekz>plus ASCII art is stuck with 255 character
10:12<Gekz>glyph art uses unicode
10:12<Gekz>:P
10:13<Gekz>I mean a sideview of a train btw
10:13<@peter1138>i can do one in openttd :p
10:13<Gekz>peter1138: explain
10:14<Pikka>peter1138: http://www.pikkarail.com/junk/cursor_rail.png
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10:18<@peter1138>nice
10:18<@peter1138>Gekz: there's that train symbol for train stations and such like :p
10:19<Gekz>...
10:19<Gekz>in english
10:19<Gekz>not myspacian
10:20<Pikka>myspacian?
10:20<Gekz>Teenager English raped with the work like and such
10:20<Gekz>words*
10:21<Pikka>those were real english words last time I checked. :D
10:22<Gekz>doesnt mean they should be used irresponsibly
10:22<Gekz>I be hatin.
10:23<Pikka>...
10:23<Pikka>I'm pretty sure "such like" is a well-established english phrase meaning "things of that kind"
10:23<Gekz>I dont trust it
10:24<Gekz>I DONT BELIEVE YOU PIKKA
10:24<@peter1138>Pikka: i'd love to debug it
10:24<@peter1138>but i can't get it to start
10:24<Pikka>the cursors? oh, that's old. :)
10:24<@peter1138>oh
10:24<Pikka>it was just.. vaguely related... to the conversation at hand.
10:25<@peter1138>i see
10:28<Pikka>you do see
10:28<Pikka>you are seeing
10:28<kovan>is there anywhere where I can find savegames with some infrastructure developed? to start from 0 is not fun anymore for me.
10:29<Progman>kovan: the #openttdcoop savegames ;)
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10:30<planetmaker>he
10:31<Alberth>kovan: Just about any savegame in the forums is also an option
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10:37<Pikka>also:
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10:45<Alberth>Pikka: s/also an option/an option too/
10:46<Pikka>oh, I wasn't talking about what you said, I was just being random. sorry. :)
10:46<Gekz>he smells.
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10:48<Pikka>who?
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10:52<Alberth>what is the purpose of FR_TRANSPARENT? (as in 'why would you want to make a frame transparent?') The constant is not used, it seems
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10:59<frosch123>Alberth: It is used -> transparent station signs
11:00<frosch123>(viewport.cpp)
11:01<Alberth>found it, thanks
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11:11<Sacro>argh a stillunknown
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11:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13417 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Fix (r12945, r13413): freeing the ThreadObjects in a manner that hopefully doesn't cause crashes.
11:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13418 /branches/noai/src/ (63 files in 6 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13380:13417.
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11:57<TiberiusTeng>SetPixelIfEmpty fixed, so minimap won't flick under OpenGL ... but updating single pixel is still slow :<
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12:39<Alberth>Frostregen: updated fastest bridge patch with code/style changes (against current trunk as previous revision crashed on threads)
12:41<Frostregen>thx :)
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13:02<nickds>hey all
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13:16<Roujin>hmm
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13:17<Roujin>the new bridge sorters don't remember if ascending/descending was selected last
13:18<Roujin>i think that makes the whole thing a bit useless, since I can't have it display the fastest bridge at the top every time by default
13:22<@peter1138>well it might just be a bug
13:22<@peter1138>who knows
13:26<Roujin>filed bug report
13:26<Roujin>i'm pretty sure it's a bug
13:26<planetmaker>hm... did I miss a feature? bridge sorter?
13:26<Roujin>since other sorted directories remember their ascending/descending status
13:27<Roujin>yes planetmaker: you can make the fastest bridge be at the top of the bridge selection... if it weren't for the bug i just reported
13:27<planetmaker>:) Nice, didn't notice so far :)
13:28<planetmaker>is the top bridge the automatically selected bridge?
13:29<planetmaker>stupid me. There's no automatic selection
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13:42<Ammler>road vehicle behaves like trams
13:42<Ammler>(queing)
13:42<@peter1138>now that's a revelation
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13:43<Ammler>:-)
13:43<Ammler>is that wanted?
13:43<Ammler>I meant aRVs
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14:40<alexboom>hi all
14:41<alexboom>i have a noobish question regarding ecs vector, would anyone be kind to enlight me?
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14:43<alexboom>coal production seems extremely low, how can i increase it?
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15:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13419 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2063]: Entries in the bridge list were not sorted when the window was just opened.
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15:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13420 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: function to get the town rating.
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16:38<thejanitor>Hey, me and my friend were playing, but another friend could not join, everytime he finished loaded it kicked him out saying network desync, so we saved and the other person in the game hosted, now netheir of us can get it, it comes up with a de-sync error
16:39<thejanitor>*get in
16:40<@Rubidium>what's the version?
16:40<thejanitor>r13019m , we are running a patch pack
16:40<+glx>same OS?
16:41<thejanitor>yup
16:41<@Rubidium>using paxdest?
16:41<thejanitor>yeh
16:41<thejanitor>its off i think tho
16:41<@Rubidium>then that's your issue
16:41<thejanitor>can we fix it using the patch settings ingame?
16:42<@Rubidium>or something else in the patch pack that breaks multiplayer (though paxdest is known to be completely utterly broken for multiplayer)
16:42<@Rubidium>maybe, but I'm not sure
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16:44<thejanitor>all of the options for it are off in the patch settings
16:44<dragonhorseboy>hey
16:44<thejanitor>how come some of us can join and others cannot etc?
16:45<@Rubidium>compiler and endianness of the system
16:45<@Rubidium>endianness == how data is represented in memory
16:46<thejanitor>:/ so we have lost that save basicly? ad we cant use the patch pack to play online..
16:46<thejanitor>*and
16:46<@Rubidium>and sounds like some of the authors in the patch pack haven't heard of those
16:46<@Rubidium>the save probably isn't lost
16:47<@Rubidium>but the patch pack not being multiplayer safe is quite likely, which means playing multiplayer games with it is quite impossible
16:47<thejanitor>gah :/ is making my own patch pack easy?
16:48<@Rubidium>if you know your way around coding, then yes
16:48<thejanitor>maybe not then :p
16:48<@Rubidium>is making a multiplayer safe patch pack easy, then usually no
16:49<thejanitor>i'd just want to combine YAPP, filter by cargo, quick goto, better graphs
16:50<thejanitor>is there a simple patch pack like that?
16:51<@Rubidium>not that I know of
16:52<@Rubidium>it only shows that 'just' adding patches together doesn't result in stable stuff
16:52<@Rubidium>and it's also the reason why not every patch is added to the official versions
16:52<thejanitor>think the community intergrated patch pack will work online?
16:52<@Rubidium>no idea
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16:53<thejanitor>anyway thanks for the help :0
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17:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13421 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: remove the need for a Sleep(1) before executing a command at the beginning of Start(), by skipping the first tick before calling Start() in the first place
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17:15<Wolf01>'night
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17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13422 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: remove Stop() as part of the AIController. This
17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: means you no longer need to have a Stop() function in your AI, nor is it ever
17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: called. This because it was silly, never used, and couldn't do anything real
17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: (all Sleep/DoCommands resulted in an assert, as the game expected the company to
17:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: be gone).
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17:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13423 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Remove: old code telling we no longer support AIs without 'info.nut'. We hope everyone did that by now :)
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17:46<fjb>Good evening everybody.
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17:50<SmatZ>hello fjb
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18:01<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13424 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai_info.cpp ai/ai_info.hpp squirrel.hpp): [NoAI] -Codechange: strdup strings returned by Squirrel when it's called from openttd.
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18:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13425 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r13355): obiwan in AIDebug window
18:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13426 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_threads.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: in the unlikely case an AI is killed before his ->Start() was started, an assert was triggered
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18:40<WashuChan>Sorry to barge in, but what industry produces gravel, for the life of me I cannot find it
18:41<fjb>PBI.
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>most likely the Brick chain extension
18:42<fjb>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php/Pikka's_Basic_Industries
18:43<fjb>Or better here: http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php/UKRS_Industries_Brick_Chain
18:43<fjb>Eddy was right.
18:44<WashuChan>how interesting, I cannot locate any of these nor is it possible to produce any
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>0.6.0 might be buggy in that aspect, try 0.6.1 or the nightly
18:45<WashuChan>Using a nightly revision
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>they need a special slope configuration
18:48<WashuChan>Thanks
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19:01<@Bjarni><WashuChan> Sorry to barge in <--- I bet he was
19:01<@Bjarni>he broke our idle >_<
19:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13427 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_base.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: RandRange(max) of course can never return max, but the highest value is max - 1 (tnx Yexo)
19:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13428 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_base.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r13427: if you do something, do it right (RandRangeItem of course has the same 'problem')
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19:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13429 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.sh: [NoAI] -Fix: don't mix eol-style when updating files (squirrel_export)
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19:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13430 /branches/noai/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIEventIndustry(Open|CLose)
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 09 00:00:33 2008