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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-10

---Logopened Tue Jun 10 00:00:09 2008
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01:37<pm|away>It may happen that for (smooth) terrains in arctic no woods are created.
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01:38<planetmaker>just as in tropic sometimes no lumber mills
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03:29<FR^2>Those files from the original game still aren't available for free, are they?
03:30<Tefad>the copyright is still valid, yes
03:30<Tefad>available? free? somewhere
03:31<Tefad>gray area?
03:31*Tefad looks around whistles and drums fingers
03:31<Tefad>with some research you can probably find the files. google might even help you out
03:32<Tefad>but i'm not going to
03:32<FR^2>No, I was just talking about the official, legal state ;)
03:33<Tefad>good luck
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03:33<FR^2>Irritating, really.
03:35<FR^2>hi dih
03:35<dih>uh - a new nick in this channel
03:36<dih>talkinga bout the official legal state?
03:36<FR^2>Not really new, but long time no see ;)
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03:36<dih>when were you here? how long is that ago
03:36<iAN_>good morning every single one
03:36<FR^2>Well, I was just asked "does it still need those extra files?" and I thought, why not ask here directly.
03:36<dih>yes, it does
03:36<FR^2>Some computer game companies give their old things away for free, some don't.
03:36<dih>but there are some good replacement projects going on
03:37<FR^2>Ah, that sounds promising
03:37<FR^2>hi iAN_
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03:37<dih>the thing with OpenTTD is that one company claims to have the copyright and that atari has no rights other than to make cd's and distribute / sell
03:37<dih>and atari sees no need to invest time into it
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03:38<dih>furthermore atari does not even make a statement about OpenTTD of any kind
03:38<dih>about TTD
03:38<dih>and in the other post too: TTD instead of OpenTTD ;-)
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03:39<iAN_>They just wait unti openTTD is _the_ game with all those features everyone wants. And _then_ they claim it is theirs and sue you/us
03:40<iAN_>Then they print it on DVDs and sell it
03:40<dih>they cannot
03:40<dih>iAN_: you are being silly, or seriously ignorant
03:40<dih>go read some documents
03:41<FR^2>From wikipedia: "Currently the artificial intelligence of competitors is poor; it builds bizarre and overcomplicated route. The AI is also unable to deal with any of the new features introduced. A special branch for the creation of a new AI has been set up." - is that still the case?
03:42<iAN_>AI does not work in my version of openttd (0.6.1)
03:42<dih>FR^2: go to openttd.noai channel
03:42<FR^2>Well, I'm not trying it out right now - I'm at work ;)
03:43<dih>well, there is 1. an irc channel, 2. a very nice branch using squirrel as the ai language so you can write your own ai, 3. it's very well documented 4. wip
03:43<Mchl>NoAI's now capable of running planes, ships and roadvehicles
03:43<Mchl>and people actually write their AIs :)
03:43<iAN_>what means "WIP". I run over this abbr. several in the docs too
03:43<Mchl>work i progress
03:43<Mchl>in progress
03:43<FR^2>Well, I thought it has been improved a lot
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03:44<dih>irsi is playing up :-(
03:44<FR^2>Well, that would be interesting: Write my own ai...
03:45<FR^2>dih: The channel you were talking about is #openttd.noai, I guess?
03:45<Mchl>it would... I started my own, but didn't really have time to finish it yet
03:45<dih>FR^2: yes
03:48*Ammler could watch the LED save for hours... ;-)
03:55<dih>Ammler: to what goood?
03:56<Ammler>dih: Digitaltechnik :P
03:56<Ammler>well, I guess, you could also have usage for NOT and AND
03:58<Ammler>I remember a save, where we was looking for such a solution and OwenS made the NAND patch.
03:58<dih>i think TrueBrain once started something like that at some point
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03:59<dih>apparently it was someone else
03:59<Ammler>It is just the first time I see NOT and AND in a unpatched game.
03:59<dih>@seen peter*
03:59<@DorpsGek>dih: peter* could be peter1138 (14 hours, 23 minutes, and 56 seconds ago), peterbrett (10 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 18 minutes, and 56 seconds ago), peter1139 (12 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 9 seconds ago), petern (15 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 35 minutes, and 33 seconds ago), peter__ (21 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 36 minutes, and 54 seconds ago), peter____ (21 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 29 minutes, and 58 seconds (1 more message)
04:00<Ammler>dih: yep, OwenS :-)
04:00<Ammler>he apears on a yearly base here :-)
04:01<dih>no - it was someone i spoke with more often!
04:03<Ammler>maybe we could use that gate for a gap generator?
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05:09<ln>not penny's boat
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05:22<FR^2>Hmm... Combine openttd and freeciv? That would be some interesting thing.
05:22<FR^2>TiberiusTeng: Nice.
05:23<TiberiusTeng>Taiwan Set is on the way ... hope my friend can finish painting it :D
05:23<Mchl>FR^2: add UFO2000 for good measure... and maybe VegaStrike as well
05:25<FR^2>Mchl: Now we're talking! *gg*
05:26<TiberiusTeng>peter1138, the set? I ask my friend to paint with Windows palette ...
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05:32<iAN_>whatfor do I need "nand" signals?
05:33<dih>logical circuit's
05:34<dih>though i would prefer seeing programmable signals
05:34<dih>(using squirrel)
05:35<TiberiusTeng>put signals on a connected graph and let signal query its neighbor signals, or ask them to query farther signals? ;p
05:35<dih>not just signals
05:36<dih>if( Train.speed > 100 ) this.state = false; /* turn the signal red if train faster 100 */
05:37<TiberiusTeng>ahh ... miss that yello signal
05:37<TiberiusTeng> /yellow/
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05:38<dih>the phone goes 'green, green', i pink it up and say 'yellow'?
05:40<TiberiusTeng>I mean, the yellow speed-limiting signal
05:41<dih>but programming it would be awsome
05:41<dih>though would allow me to slow down the server
05:41<dih>while( true );
05:41<dih>even if limited to x opcodes
05:41<TiberiusTeng>loops should be prohibited
05:41<dih>i just would need to setup x signals and let trains run by :-P
05:41<TiberiusTeng>but then someone can play with recursion lookup
05:42<TiberiusTeng>no sleep! ;)
05:42<dih>that would be so hillarious :-P
05:42<dih>if a train approaches, pause the game for x
05:47<TiberiusTeng>some stupidly simple (imaginary) signal script :p
05:49<iAN_>block.limit is the allowed train speed?
05:50<TiberiusTeng>but since it's imaginary I didn't consider complex situations ... e.g. multiple 'next' signals, emulating presignals, etc :p
05:50<iAN_>would slow down the network enormous, when two trains drive at exactly one block length. they would go 25 all
05:51<TiberiusTeng>yep, I was just imitating the signal system of Japan railways :p
05:51<TiberiusTeng>not the best way for OTTD though
05:52<iAN_>are there any signals in TTD except Green and Red?
05:52<TiberiusTeng>no I think
05:52<dih>there is the yapp patch
05:52<dih>which is pbs
05:53<iAN_>I've seen another interface in one of those non-official rc-versions. with new gui-elements and switches at the transparency to switch things transparent OR invisible.
05:54<iAN_>when does _that_ become part of a version for silly users like me?
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05:55<dih>there _are_ transparency options
05:56<dih>and what non-official rc's?
05:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13438 /branches/noai/src/ (squirrel.cpp squirrel.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: sq_pop when needed, to make sure the stack keeps as clean as possible
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06:00<iAN_>ja. I have transparency options. but just to make things "transparent"
06:01<dih>what's the prob?
06:01<iAN_>I've seen transparency options with a second row below the category icons, when pressed, those things became "invisible"
06:01<dih>i dont get you
06:01<dih>i dont get you
06:01<dih>press ctrl+x
06:01<dih>and you wanna know what?
06:02<iAN_>what does Ctrl+x?
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06:03<dih>i think it brings up the transparency gui
06:03<iAN_>yes, but without the second row of switches
06:04<iAN_>Ctrl+X just shows the icons for the categories to switch to "transparent" (black shadow)
06:04<dih>i get my trees to disappear
06:04<iAN_>I've seen a button below each of those category icons, to make those shadows completly transparent (invisible)
06:04<iAN_>trees -> yes. cities, stations, industries -> no
06:05<dih>who needs it? :-P
06:06<Ammler>iAN_: do you need a old version?
06:07<Ammler>the invisible option is there since 0.6, iirc.
06:07<iAN_>I use the regular 0.6.1 version from the openttd homepage
06:07<Ammler>that should have adv. transparency options.
06:07<iAN_>where? how?
06:08<Ammler>the buttons below the symbols...
06:08<Ammler>(with ctrl-x)
06:08<iAN_>no. has not
06:08<iAN_>I could prove by a screenshot
06:09<Ammler>yeah, me too :-)
06:09<iAN_>I just have _one_ option in the interface/patch settings -> invisible trees on transparent trees yes/no
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06:15<iAN_>wieso versteht mich denn keiner?!
06:17<iAN_>Pikka: That's no valid semantical answer ;)
06:22<Pikka>I'm not surprised
06:24<iAN_>Pikka: "Jawohl" fits probably when the questions does not start with the letter "W"
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06:25<iAN_>Pikka: When a question starts with a "W" word, most probably its not a yes/no question
06:25<Pikka>I find most questions are yes/no if you try hard enough ;)
06:26<iAN_>Who said that?
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06:28<dih>iAN_: why on earth do you assume people dont understand you?
06:28<dih>and why on earth dont you understand everybody else in this channel :-P
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06:30<iAN_>I just wanted to know, when an official release of openttd will have those invisible buttons below the trancparency buttons.
06:31<iAN_>dih: which version will have those buttons?
06:31<dih>that is a silly question
06:31<dih>that is a very silly question
06:31<dih>noone even knows _if_ that would ever get included
06:31<dih>why asking for _when_ is not a good idea :-P
06:32<iAN_>Is there a schedule, where _I_ can see who is working on what actually?
06:33<dih>who = any patcher
06:33<dih>who = developer
06:34<iAN_>explain the difference please
06:34<ln>any patcher = any cop
06:34<ln>developer = batman
06:35<iAN_>so, what is batman doing right now?
06:36<dih>if you want to know what the developers are doing, ask them
06:36<dih>if you are interested in knowing what different patchers are up to, search the forums
06:36<Ammler>iAN_: it is in 0.6
06:36<dih>ln: any patcher < any cop :-D
06:37<dih>cops have something to say
06:37<dih>patchers only believe they have something to say
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06:37<Ammler>0.6 branch was done around r12395 (> r12102)
06:37<dih>and what happened in 12102?
06:37<iAN_>Ammler: That means the buttons did not make it into 0.6.1? :-(
06:37<Lachie>any italian speakers here?
06:38<Ammler>hehe, just checked, they aren't
06:38<ln>it's not possible to speak italian as mode +c prevents colors here.
06:39<iAN_>ln: ++
06:40<Ammler>iAN_: sorry :-)
06:41<dih>iAN_: just patch your client :-P
06:41<Ammler>ah, the thread I pointed was the lock patch :-)
06:42<iAN_>I'm a end-user. I can read a manual and play the game. (exclusively only those two things)
06:42<iAN_>Ammler: I couldn't find anything in the thread you posted here. :-(
06:46<@Belugas>iAN_, can you give us the screen shot you meantionned earlier, please?
06:47<Ammler>iAN_: That thread is about transparency locking, I thought it is the invisible
06:47<Ammler>inivisible came later, that's why it is not in 0.6.x
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06:49<dih>iAN_: i dont believe that you can read a manual :-P
06:49<dih>hello Belugas :-)
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06:51<iAN_>Belugas: the one showing the non existent buttons?
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06:53<dih>iAN_: YES
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06:53<Ammler>why do you need that?
06:54<Ammler>should it be in?
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07:05<@SmatZ>iAN_: they will be in 0.7.0
07:05<iAN_>made screenshot
07:05<iAN_>trying to upload it somewhere
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07:06<dih>hey ho SmatZyPatcHy :-D
07:06<@SmatZ>hello dihedral :-)
07:06<@Belugas>hello dih
07:06<@Belugas>iAN_, have you tried the nightlies?
07:07<@Belugas>hello SmatZ
07:07<dih>he's not allowed to stay up that long Belugas
07:07<@Belugas>tut tut tut... nasty dih
07:07<dih>that was a joke on 2 things
07:07<@Belugas>put some soap in your mouth!
07:07<@Belugas>dirty tongue
07:07<Ammler>we need noonies
07:08<dih>once every 2 weeks :-P
07:08<@Belugas>i need breakfast...
07:08<@Belugas>see you
07:08<Ammler>ä guetä
07:11<iAN_>I go to find some lunch now. will be back afterwards
07:11<iAN_>Belugas: I'm a stupid user. I can use regular versions only
07:12<dih>iAN_: just lookup what 'nightly' means!!!
07:12<dih>before you make even more stupid statements!
07:13<dih>they are as easily installed as any other release of OpenTTD
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07:39<ln>zomg, i spotted Tron #elsewhere
07:44<ln>if i reveal that, i expect a mass-join by 200 people.
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07:45<Noldo>what is it related to?
07:45<ln>version control
07:48<@peter1138>he's not hard to find
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08:46<iAN_>I'm back from lunch
08:48<Sacro>make sure to clock back in
08:49<iAN_>dih: question: when the latest nightly has a readme reading "Release version 0.6.0-beta5" is that more recent than the "official 0.6.1"?
08:50<@Rubidium>nightlies' readmes are outdated
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09:01*Belugas joins the "party" at the office
09:01<@Belugas>iAN_, you're not stupid becasue you do not use nightlies. You just do not know about them, maybe
09:01<+glx>hmm to kick or not to kick
09:02<iAN_>I installed r13434
09:02<@Belugas>good for you :)
09:05<@Belugas>hope you'll find it interesting
09:05<@Belugas>there are a few new features, but not spectucular ones
09:05<@Belugas>apart the engine pool, of course
09:06<@Belugas>prooudly sponsored by mister Nelson
09:09<@Belugas>hooo.. which is, by the way, back, after a whole night of absence :)
09:12<@peter1138>i'm a which?
09:12<@Belugas>-h indeed
09:12<@Belugas>of ...
09:12<@Belugas>+t ?
09:13<@Belugas>who indeed :S
09:22<iAN_>can I "see" the engine pool?
09:22<iAN_>or is that more "game internal"?
09:22<@SmatZ>iAN_: if you enable it, you can use more engine sets at once
09:23<iAN_>wtf are town controlled noise level for airports?
09:27<@Belugas>instead of been blocked with only 2 airports max per town,
09:28<@Belugas>the airports are generating noise, that the town will tolerate up to a certain point
09:28<@Belugas>so, you can have miore than 2 airports per town
09:28<@Belugas>proudly sponsored by me
09:29<Gekz>Belugas: you made that a patch?
09:29<@Belugas>it's not a patch, it's a FEATURE
09:30<iAN_>and "noise" is generated by "airplanes"?
09:30<@Belugas>let say by the operations of the aiport in general
09:30<iAN_>So I place there 12 airports around the city and _then_ start buying aircrafts?
09:31<@Belugas>so even when there are no planes, it does still generate noise
09:31<ln>the plural of "aircraft" is not "aircrafts".
09:32<Gekz>no wi.
09:32<@SmatZ>lopl? wi? wai?
09:32<Gekz>its a fail.
09:32<@Belugas>iAN_, as soon as you place the airport, the noise stuff quicks in :)
09:32<Gekz>stop me
09:32<@Belugas>can i?
09:33<@Belugas>easy to do :)
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09:33<iAN_>so, how do you distinguish between aircraft and aircraft then?
09:34<iAN_>people boarded the aircraft
09:34<iAN_>how many persons entered how much airplanes?
09:35<@Rubidium>impossible to tell
09:35<@Belugas>well... a trick would be to not use aircraft, but airplane(s) instead ;)
09:35<@Rubidium>persons boarded the trains: how many persons entered how much trains?
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09:35<iAN_>at least two trains and at least two people
09:36<iAN_>so, your station has at least two platfors,
09:36<@Rubidium>not necessarily
09:36<iAN_>I'd like to use "aircrafts" in future, just to be sure
09:36<@Rubidium>they could along the same platform
09:37<@Rubidium>iAN_: gramatically 0 persons boarding 0 trains is also possible
09:37<iAN_>would that be possible in OTT that I place a signal on a platform and have several "short" trains on the same platform?
09:38<iAN_>would not make sense, because the first would stop in the first part of the station then :-(
09:38<@Rubidium>possibly yes, would it work okay? not sure, is it going to be implemented soon? probably not
09:39<iAN_>I can place a long platform (7 tiles) and add two short platforms (3 tiles) with a signal in the middle.
09:40<iAN_>so. no need to implement this =)
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09:46<Gekz>@seen dvdb
09:46<@DorpsGek>Gekz: dvdb was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 5 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <dvdb> question: are there plans to realize diagonal bridges/tunnels?
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10:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13439 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: set svn props and keywords, and fix Author and Version
10:10<Ammler>is there somewhere really old nightlies available (around r3000)
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10:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13440 /branches/noai/ (14 files in 6 dirs):
10:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: introducing ai/library, a method to load libraries into your AI.
10:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Note: to use a library, use in your AI: import("", "LocalName", version_number_of_library)
10:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Example: import("sets.priority_queue", "PQ", 1); local pq = PQ(2); pq.insert(2, 1);
10:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add [Library]: sets.priority_queue (based on work by Morloth)
10:12<@Rubidium>oh boy... someone wants PBS?
10:12<Ammler>well, then I would prefer YAPP
10:12<Ammler>no, we want to make a "nostalgic game"
10:13<@Rubidium>take 0.4.5
10:14<Ammler>grf support?
10:14<Ammler>well, we will see :-)
10:15<@Rubidium>only little IIRC
10:15<@peter1138>hmm, did 0.4.5 have newstations?
10:15<@Rubidium>but I guess DBXL has the best chance in working
10:16<@Rubidium>seems 0.5 material
10:16<@Rubidium>judging on changelog.txt
10:20<+glx>you can try on the archive
10:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13441 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r13440): NO_THREADS compilation
10:24<@Rubidium>the archive only has sources
10:25<@Rubidium>and if you need sources a svn co can be done as quickly
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10:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13442 /branches/noai/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added 'rescan_ai' console command. Use it to rescan the ai dir when you add AIs or libraries without needing to exit and restart openttd.
10:41<Eddi|zuHause3><ln> not penny's boat <- you are sooo last year
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10:48*dih pitties Rubidium for some of the people he has to deal with ;-)
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10:56<Eddi|zuHause3><Pikka> I find most questions are yes/no if you try hard enough ;) <- people always stare at me like an oven if i try that :p
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10:58<Eddi|zuHause3><iAN_> would that be possible in OTT that I place a signal on a platform and have several "short" trains on the same platform? <- "real" stations do that without a signal in the middle, there is a special signal state for "you can enter carefully, but the end is blocked" [e.g. dead end platform, or another train waiting]
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11:05<DJNekkid>Eddi|zuHause3: or ian: no, not without makeing an inbetween track first ...
11:05<DJNekkid>but it's an interesting idea
11:06<Eddi|zuHause3>i thought about how this could be possible, but it needs very advanced shunting, don't expect that in the next decade :p
11:08<Eddi|zuHause3>obvious problem of an interrupted platform is you cannot use it as a long platform if you need it
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11:11<DJNekkid>nope :)
11:12<DJNekkid>it might be a thing that could be done with GRF ... i mean ... we have "cannot enter tile"-flag ...
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11:17<DJNekkid>made a "giant" Screenshot :)
11:18<DJNekkid>only 50 megz
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>you have a weird opinion of how game mechanics work
11:18<DJNekkid>ehm, sorry ... wrong channel
11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, there are screenshots of development versions of signals on stations (with that flag)
11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>but they are no real signals
11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>they are either always red or always green
11:19<DJNekkid>hehe ... i bet :)
11:20<DJNekkid>but as u say, orikky not the next decade
11:22<+glx>only right hand
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11:35<iAN_>whatever. I can work-arround with a platform (7tiles) and two (3tiles) with a regular signal in the middle
11:35<iAN_>makes up one station with two 7tile platforms
11:35<iAN_>I have to assign waypoints to seperate short from long trains
11:36<iAN_>or assign long trains the order "non stop via short platform to short platform"
11:36<Mchl>it won't work I'm afraid
11:36<iAN_>why not?
11:36<Mchl>both platforms belong to one station?
11:37<Mchl>well...I'd say the train would stop on the first one... but it's better to check
11:37<iAN_>the train leaves the station (one tile with regular signal) and enters the other part right after it
11:37<iAN_>assign long trains the order "non stop via short platform to short platform"
11:38<iAN_>makes the train "ignore" the first part, leave to the signal and enter (again) and stop
11:38<Mchl>tell us if it works :)
11:38<iAN_>works great
11:38<Mchl>cool then :)
11:38<@Rubidium>iAN_: you actually tried it?
11:38<iAN_>I'm at work
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11:39<@Belugas>me too!
11:40<Mchl>but then... even if it works, the seven-tile train stops on a three tile platform...
11:40<Mchl>load/unload speed is reduced
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11:46<iAN_>ok, just tried.
11:47<iAN_>even go nonstop via station is ignored and train stops
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11:48<Ammler>:-) seems like 0.4.5 doesn't work with vista
11:48<iAN_>ok, I'll finish for today .. will go home now
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12:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13443 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp:
12:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Feature[newGRF]: Add var 0x69 for industries, long format construction date.
12:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Same as var B0, but base year is now 0, instead of 1920
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12:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13444 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt order_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the order GUI somewhat more efficient. The most used options can be done with a single click now.
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13:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13445 /trunk/src/blitter/ (32bpp_optimized.cpp 32bpp_optimized.hpp): -Codechange: make 32bpp_optimized blitter ~10-20% faster in drawing (depends on architecture and compiler)
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13:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13446 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix(r13443): changed the var previously introduced from 69 to 46, as no param was required (thanks frosch)
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13:59<@Belugas>good evening Wolf01
14:03<Wolf01>evening? where?
14:03<@Belugas>around you :)
14:03<Wolf01>are you sure?
14:05<Wolf01>my clock says "sunday early morning"
14:05<@Belugas>do you have a job?
14:05<Wolf01>oh shit, the batteries!
14:05<@Belugas>change your clock :)
14:05<@Belugas>or your batteries :)
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14:06<Mchl>your job has been changed for you
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14:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13447 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
14:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add [Library]: Binary Heap ( O(ln n) insert/pop )
14:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix [Library]: Priority Queue now is a bit more robust (and hit version 2)
14:47<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13448 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/Doxyfile: [NoAI] -Fix: indicate in doxyfile too that this is NoAI
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14:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13449 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: .tar support is not yet available inside the library-structure .. disable it for now
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15:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13450 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (library/queue/ library/sets/ regression/regression.nut): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: renamed library category 'sets' to 'queue', as it represents more what the implementations do
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15:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13451 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: no comments ...
15:13<DJNekkid>why dont this work?
15:13<DJNekkid>-1 * 0 04 80 7F 01 00 "70 Passangers per wagon" 00
15:14<DJNekkid>-1 * 0 04 48 80 7F 01 00 "70 Passangers per wagon" 00
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15:14<@Belugas>but not uppercase ;)
15:14<Prof_Frink>hylje: No, Pass Angers
15:14<Prof_Frink>They're all Matthew Garrett
15:16<@Belugas>should not it be "-1 * 00" ?
15:16<@Belugas>for starters
15:16<DJNekkid>it might, but it dont matter :)
15:16<@Belugas>slopiness kills...
15:16<@Belugas>do it right!
15:16<DJNekkid>all 1700 lines?
15:17<frosch123>"80" means NO language
15:17<Kiloman>regular expressions are your friend
15:17<Prof_Frink>s/\w/0\w/00/ if my regex memory is right
15:17<Prof_Frink>Except I've grown an extra /
15:17<DJNekkid>i thought 80 were "generic text" thingy
15:18<Kiloman>or just s/ 0 / 00 /
15:18<@Belugas>48 is
15:18<frosch123>but you have to combine it with the 7f
15:18<Prof_Frink>Kiloman: boring :)
15:18<frosch123>s/80 7f/ff/
15:18<frosch123>plus the textid will be two bytes
15:19<DJNekkid>i have to add d0 before 00 "text" ?
15:19<frosch123>plus I don't know whether feature 48 is supported by ottd at all
15:20<frosch123>litte endian, so "after"
15:20<frosch123>btw. if d0xx text do not belong to feature 48
15:20<DJNekkid>that is, as i understand it, add generic texts ... and lots of trainsets have generic texts
15:21<DJNekkid>-1 * 0 04 48 FF 01 D0 00 "70 Passangers per wagon" 00 <-- worked :)
15:21<frosch123>the 80 flag in the language id means, you specify a 16bit textid, i.e. a generic text of some feature
15:21<frosch123>otoh. feature 48 means, you want to replace the strings of the original game, like texts in the menu. these things are done using webtranslator2 in ottd
15:22<frosch123>-1 * 0 04 00 FF 01 \wxD000 "blabla" 00
15:23<frosch123>where "\wxD000" is equivalent to "00 D0"
15:24<DJNekkid>well, thanx :)
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15:24<Kiloman>also, fix your damned spelling :p
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15:26*Belugas is amazed by frosch123's knowledge
15:28<DJNekkid>sorry frosch123 ... i have a hint of dyslexia...
15:28*frosch123 hopes he told the thruth
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15:30<DJNekkid>unless you talk about my useage of "u" and x'es and stuff
15:31<DJNekkid>that is mainly lazynes
15:32<@Belugas>laziness kills
15:32<Prof_Frink>Lochness kills.
15:32<Prof_Frink>At least, the monster does
15:33<@Belugas>No proof of it!
15:33<Prof_Frink>There's no roof of Vashta Nerada either.
15:34<@Belugas>and no gold in Rouyn-Noranda.
15:34<Mchl>Supersticktion? That's one of these 'Super glues' or what?
15:34<@Belugas>so we're even
15:42<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13452 /branches/noai/bin/ai/library/queue/ (binary_heap/main.nut priority_queue/main.nut): [NoAI] -Fix: minor coding style. Also, BinaryHeap is based on work by GeekToo!
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15:57<@SmatZ>@seen michi_cc
15:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: michi_cc was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 17 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <michi_cc> peter1138: should I take that as a sign for anything, or are you just doing code cleanup?
15:57<@SmatZ>!seen michi_cc
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16:06<ian_>I got a Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library error on r13434
16:06<ian_>File newgrf_text.cpp Line 414
16:07<ian_>Expression: _grf_text[stringid].grfid!=0
16:07<+glx>what were you doing?
16:07<ian_>I tried to place a Powerplant near my station
16:08<+glx>did you change newgrf ingame?
16:08<@SmatZ>ian_: can you reproduce it?
16:08<ian_>lets try..
16:08<ian_>nope ttd crashed
16:08<ian_>so, I would have to start a new game and try again
16:08<@Bjarni>use the newest one and try the same thing again
16:09<@Bjarni><ian_> so, I would have to start a new game and try again <-- no... we have autosave to avoid this
16:10<@SmatZ>crash.sav ?
16:10<@SmatZ>can you post crash.sav ?
16:10<+glx>SmatZ: it's not a release ;)
16:11<@SmatZ>hmm :-x
16:11<ian_>autosav is to old
16:11<+glx>anyway it looks like you changed grfs ingame
16:12<ian_>no. I did not
16:12<+glx>or it's a buggy grf
16:12<@SmatZ>can you post at least that autosave?
16:12<ian_>and I disabled autosav :(
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16:12<ian_>was too laggy each year
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16:13<@Bjarni>I always use monthly autosave
16:13<ian_>ja. would be a good idea for nightly builds =)
16:13<@Bjarni>even on debug builds
16:13<ian_>anyhow it started to get frustrating
16:13<@SmatZ>I don't use autosave, but I save game regularly, like 10 times a month :)
16:14<+glx>btw what grf provides the powerplant?
16:14<ian_>11 platforms with length 12, permanent trains aproaching and unloading for a steelmill and two glass works
16:14<ian_>had too much coal, so I wanted to build a power station
16:14<+glx>is it an ECS one?
16:14<@SmatZ>ian_: (any) save would be better
16:15<+glx>(and the station doesn't matter ;) )
16:15<@Bjarni><SmatZ> I don't use autosave, but I save game regularly, like 10 times a month :) <-- I always forget to save when I pay attention to something ingame (which happens in all games) so I always turn on autosave in all games
16:15<ian_>I'm playing with all ECS
16:15<+glx>the crash happened when you clicked on the map I guess
16:16<ian_>haveing the powerplant on the cursor...
16:16<+glx>it appeared on the map?
16:17<ian_>well.. usually it takes some time, but I assume yes. I clicked several times on different spots and got error messages like : no space, unsuitable location, etc. and than it crashed on a "free" space
16:18<ian_>That's why I assume it could have be placed there and therefor "appear"
16:18<+glx>or it wanted to show a custom error message
16:20<+glx>so it's related to ECSBasic I think
16:21<+glx>what is the exact version you of yours?
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16:22<+glx>ECSBasic version is enough (as it's the one with powerplant)
16:23<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
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16:24<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
16:25<+glx>planetmaker: stop spamming
16:25<planetmaker>^^those are the ports you need, hzzzln
16:25<Prof_Frink>DorpsGek: You too.
16:25<planetmaker>glx: sorry.
16:25<@SmatZ>planetmaker: once again, maybe it will say something different!
16:25<hzzzln>thank you :)
16:25<planetmaker>try to enable people help themselves :)
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16:25<@SmatZ>planetmaker is nice :)
16:25<ian_>ecs. basic vector beta 4 (13 apr 2008)
16:26<@Bjarni>planetmaker: you remind me of two guys I once saw. They tested their software and it failed at the same point every time. After trying 3 times they kept on trying because "eventually it will have to learn how to do it"
16:26*[com]buster recalls *his* IRC bot
16:26<+glx>ian_: windows or dos?
16:27<Prof_Frink>[com]buster: You are an IRC bot.
16:27<Wuisch>Hello, Little question I seem to have lost my button to activate Enable multiple NewGRF engine sets... i'm using 6.1... any Idea where it could have gone?
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16:27<@Bjarni>LOST a button?
16:27<@Bjarni>like it's not where it used to be?
16:27<planetmaker>hzzzln: except those two ports you shouldn't need any other.
16:27<+glx>and tell the md5 too (to be sure I try the right one)
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16:27<@SmatZ>Wuisch: there is not such a button in 0.6.1
16:28<Wuisch>it wasn't there I tell ya ... I put up busses with its description in a couple of towns but to no avail
16:28<[com]buster>Prof_Frink, 1+1=10 and i'm not a bot :p
16:28<Wuisch>ahhh I see. Is it automatically on or was it buggy or what happened to it?
16:28<+glx>Wuisch: use a nightly build and it will reappear
16:28<Prof_Frink>[com]buster: Yeah yeah, that's what they all say.
16:28<ian_>windows XP
16:29<+glx>I mean the grf version ;)
16:29<Wuisch>I've looked through a couple of howto's but I can't seem to get builtottd to do its magical thing.
16:30<ian_>windows of course
16:31<@SmatZ>use linux
16:32<Wuisch>basicly when I start up buildottd and press the update and compile thingy shouldn't the nightly be installed on my computer? or do i need to hack some gibsons after that?
16:32<+glx>depends on your windows version Wuisch
16:33<Wuisch>Vista 32bit
16:33<[com]buster>Let me get *my* bot in here
16:33<[com]buster>AFAIk bots dont make other bots
16:33<+glx>buildottd is known to not work on vista
16:33<Wuisch>So how could I procure the nightly ?
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16:36<Wuisch>hmmm I probably could have figured that out eventually Thanks,
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16:37<@SmatZ>hesy hzzzln_
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16:39<hzzzln>how can i get the ip of the MP game i run on my comp
16:39<hzzzln>(in ottd)
16:42<[com]buster>use :p
16:43<Wuisch>on a side note is there a grf with all the original vehicles?
16:44<+glx>ian_: I can't reproduce, we will need a savegame
16:44<frosch123>but it is not a newgrf
16:44<+glx>Wuisch: there's one in the engine pool thread
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16:46<Wuisch>I'll check it out will a non new grf work like the other grfs?
16:46<ian_>glx: okay.. trying to make one..
16:47<+glx>the first loaded newgrf will modify original vehicles, so you need a newgrf to restore the original vehicles
16:47<+glx>and there's one in the already mentionned thread
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16:49<ian_>why does the industry generation takes soooooo long?
16:49<Wuisch>ah I found it thanks glx :)
16:50<+glx>because george likes restrictive placement rules, so the game has to retry more times
16:50<@Rubidium>ian_: because the ECS NewGRF performs very heavy (time consuming) calculations to determine whether it might be build and then it rejects build sites way more often than with the original industries
16:50<ian_>I would like to switch it off when the map is generated
16:51<@Bjarni>you can't
16:51<ian_>1486 / 1920
16:52<@Bjarni>at least you aren't stuck in what seems like forever
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16:52<@Bjarni>try the biggest map size with max industry on a hilly terrain
16:53<@Bjarni>and leave the computer for a while
16:53<@Bjarni>check if it's done tomorrow
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16:58<@SmatZ>Bjarni: with ECS?
16:58<@SmatZ>night Wolf01
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16:59<@Bjarni><SmatZ> Bjarni: with ECS? <-- odds are that we can make the map generator get stuck because it can't place all the industries if we try that with ECS
17:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13453 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_controller.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: allow import inside a library (or class, for that matter)
17:00<@SmatZ>can't every GRF make the game lock up?
17:01<+glx>dunno if it's possible when chaining action 2
17:03<@SmatZ>glx: combination of action 10+7/9 ?
17:04<@SmatZ>hmm no
17:04<@SmatZ>Note that it is generally not safe to skip backwards, i.e. to an earlier position. While the patch will happily do that, you will get strange results if certain actions are repeated. Only action 0, 6, 7, 9, C and D are reasonably safe to execute more than once.
17:04<@SmatZ>so TTDP can lock up
17:05<frosch123>ttdp has hardly any range checking
17:06<frosch123>iirc you can tell the autoreplace callback to replace trains by aircraft etc :p
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17:11<@Bjarni>you could do that at one time in OpenTTD too
17:12<@Bjarni>I mean the code would not check if your replace order would be valid
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17:12<@Bjarni>but it would reject the replacement when the game actually tried to do it
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17:13<@Bjarni>now I think it checks both when setting the order and when building
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17:15<@SmatZ>replace order?
17:15<@SmatZ>or refit order?
17:16<@Bjarni>not that kind of order :)
17:16<@Bjarni>I meant the thing you get when you click "start replacing" in the autoreplace window
17:16<@Bjarni>maybe we should make an official name for those
17:16<@Bjarni>how about "replacement rules"?
17:17<@SmatZ>for what?
17:17<@Bjarni>for replacement rules :P
17:17<@SmatZ>on "go to depot" orders?
17:17<@Bjarni>the list of whatever you want to replace
17:18<@Bjarni>like replace 1 with 4, 2 with 4 and so on
17:18<Prof_Frink>Autoreplace criteria
17:18<@SmatZ>better rules than criteria
17:18<@Bjarni>I would make spelling mistakes in criteria way too often :P
17:19<@SmatZ>I think "criteria" is something like "conditions"
17:19<@SmatZ>the same
17:19<@Bjarni>because I would be thinking about what I'm saying and not how I spell what I'm saying
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17:21<@Bjarni>I'm not really happy about rules either
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17:21<@Bjarni>because I think people will fail to understand that they will make the rules
17:21<@Bjarni>and not us
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17:30<@Bjarni>maybe I should dare to ask on the forum for a good name
17:30<@Bjarni>we will get at least 50 bad ones
17:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13454 /branches/noai/src/openttd.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: kill all AIs when leaving game in any way (restart, loadgame, ..) (tnx Yexo for reporting, and glx for fixing)
17:31<@Bjarni>but if somebody actually manages to come up with a good one then it's worth it... I think
17:32<@SmatZ>I thing current code is fine
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17:34<@Bjarni>it is
17:34<@Bjarni>but what should we call it? :)
17:35<Kiloman>Batch Replacement?
17:35<Kiloman>Batch Upgrade?
17:35<Kiloman>it's not completely auto since you have to trigger it
17:36<Kiloman>it's more like a batch job
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17:36<@Bjarni>but we need to find a name that "normal" people would understand
17:36<@Bjarni>a name that should hopefully say it all so you don't have to think about what we meant by this
17:37<Kiloman>also, the text on the 'start replacing' button has been getting corrupted for me in some of the nightlies
17:37<Mchl>Mass Replacement
17:38<@Bjarni>no it should be for a single replacement "order"
17:38<@Bjarni>like "replace A with B"
17:38<@Bjarni>"replace D with E" would be another one
17:38<Mchl>i see
17:39<Kiloman>yeah but it's kind of confusing as it is... there can be multiple orders active, but you don't ever see them presented in a list
17:39<Kiloman>you just have the GUI, and can click on a current model to see if it's being replaced
17:39<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Just put s/A/B/
17:39<Kiloman>and then you have to manually stop it, even when the game knows there are no more instances of '
17:39<Kiloman>A' left to replace?
17:40<@SmatZ>yeah, normal people know sed
17:40<Prof_Frink>Like I care about normal people
17:40<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: you should
17:40<@Bjarni>I care about you
17:41<@Bjarni>I care not to talk about it
17:41<@SmatZ>and Windows users
17:41<@SmatZ>they all have to know sed
17:41<@Bjarni><SmatZ> and Windows users <-- those aren't normal people
17:42<@Bjarni>those are freaks
17:42<Prof_Frink>Easiest would be to have two columns titled "From" and "To"
17:42<@SmatZ>still they are in majority :)
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17:42<Prof_Frink>Doesn't make 'em normal.
17:43<Kiloman>yeah, if the To and From lists had headers that said that, it would help
17:43<@SmatZ>majority defines what is normal
17:44<Kiloman>and if the list item changed its visual appearance when it was being replaced, that would help too
17:44<Kiloman>as it is you have to click through the list and see if the 'stop replacing' button is enabled to know if it's being replaced
17:46<@Bjarni>basically the GUI for autoreplace was written to make access to what I had already coded but couldn't access.
17:46<@Bjarni>and it's kind of like nothing happened to it since then
17:46<@Bjarni>except for minor changes
17:46<@Bjarni>like the unit counter
17:48<@Bjarni>Kiloman: if you have so many ideas on how it should work then go write it
17:48<@Bjarni>in a feature request
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17:50<Kiloman>I am a giant Perl weenie :( C++ scares me
17:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13455 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): [NoAI] -Fix: extend the regression to test the queues a bit more
17:51<@Bjarni>you don't have to write feature requests in C++ if you don't want to
17:52<Kiloman>oh you mean write a feature request in bugs :P
17:52<Kiloman>I thought you meant "go write the code"
17:52<@Bjarni>a diff file would also be accepted ;)
17:53<@Bjarni>if it's good, that is
17:53<Kiloman>yeah you guys have template and macro'd the hell out of the code
17:53<Kiloman>it's impressive but more than a little imposing
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17:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13456 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use AllocaM() macro instead of alloca() at most places
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18:31<Kiloman>is this a known issue, or should I file a bug about it?
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18:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13457 /branches/noai/bin/ai/library/queue/binary_heap/main.nut: [NoAI] -Fix: fix the binary heap implementation to ... remain a valid binary heap tree :)
18:33<@Rubidium>Kiloman: sounds FS#1072-ish to me
18:35<Kiloman>ahh thx, I wasn't being generic enough with my search :P
18:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13458 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r13457: fix the regression Luke...
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18:58<fjb>Oh, two lines, just for me...
18:58<@SmatZ>of course
18:59<@Bjarni>it's a cheap way to make you feel special and welcome
18:59<@Bjarni>first step in mind controlling you
18:59<@Bjarni>to make you do the boring tasks that we don't want to do :P
18:59<@Bjarni>anyway I'm out of here
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19:00<fjb>So far for the mind control thing...
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19:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13459 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (library/queue/binary_heap/main.nut regression/regression.txt): [NoAI] -Fix: final fixes in binary_heap
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19:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13460 /branches/noai/bin/ai/library/graph/ (. aystar/ aystar/library.nut aystar/main.nut): [NoAI] -Add [Library]: added graph.aystar, an A* implementation (Yexo)
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 11 00:00:44 2008