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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-11

---Logopened Wed Jun 11 00:00:44 2008
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00:56-!-mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ
00:56-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
00:56-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
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01:17<Pikka>Belugas: you'll be pleased to hear that the new industry var works perfectly. :)
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02:03<Ammler>morning Pikka, any idea why your oldwag-newcargo grf doesn't work with NewCargo from MB, did he make his GRF completly different?
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02:09<Pikka>Ammler: afaia newcargo predates the cargo class system
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03:01<Mchl>hello
03:01<iAN_>hi gurus, developers, batman, cops and all others
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03:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd take the first category if nobody minds :)
03:03<iAN_>I figured out what kills gameplay totally.
03:04<iAN_>using all ECS vectors and trying to deliver cargo from source to destination. That simply does not work
03:04<iAN_>If, in the chain, something minor goes wrong. e.g. a lorry doesn't bring potash to a factory, it decreses production.
03:04<iAN_>Then, coal, ironore, etc. is no longer accepted at the station
03:05<Eddi|zuHause2>George's ECS implementation is just way over the top
03:05<iAN_>those trains run back (full) the source station sinks in raw materials, and the output goes back from 1500 tons/month to 6
03:05<iAN_>then, when you have fixed the lorry, the factory sinks in potash, because coal and iroenore are missing
03:05<Eddi|zuHause2>you can use the unload order
03:06<iAN_>This is a total mess of everything.
03:06<iAN_>I figured out how to handle the mes
03:06<iAN_>s
03:06<iAN_>buid a gigantic station in the middle of the map. Lots of platforms, huge space.
03:06<iAN_>every train goes from source to there unloading "everything"
03:07<iAN_>and then the factories will be delivered from there
03:07<iAN_>even when one mine goes down, there is enough coal at the center station
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03:08<Eddi|zuHause2>only that'll totally kill profit
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03:11<iAN_>no.
03:11<iAN_>I tried it.
03:12<iAN_>You lose a lot more with that fricking ECS
03:12<Eddi|zuHause2>like i said, it's way over the top
03:12<Eddi|zuHause2>there is no "easy" mode
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03:13<iAN_>you need 6 mineral-sources and one destination (factories). Its almost impossible to have that running. (output is glass + steel)
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03:13<iAN_>never ever had "everything" runnig up to car production in the end
03:14*peter1138 wonders if any ttdpatch players experience that
03:14<iAN_>you would need, coal, ore, sand, glass, steel, oil, refined products, dye and all that in a weighted relation
03:14<iAN_>not even touching the vectors for food and people (towns)
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03:15<iAN_>for a mineral source, producing 3000 units/month you need at least 4 platforms with a length of 14 tiles (each)
03:15<iAN_>even if the coalmine is next to the power station.
03:16<iAN_>then, the output of the power station goes up to 25% and the station does no longer accept coal
03:16<iAN_>(mabe needs oil?)
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03:16<iAN_>so, try to find (30!!) oil wells to deliver enough oil
03:17<iAN_>I'd like to chat with the inventor of those ECS
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03:20<Eddi|zuHause2>it's George, you find him on the forums
03:21<Eddi|zuHause2>and he is not the inventor of ECS, ECS is a common specification, he IMPLEMENTED it
03:21<Eddi|zuHause2>MB wants to do another implementation, let's see how that turns out
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03:40<planetmaker>Does Ctrl+Click with a sign delete it by now like proposed here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35292 ?
03:40<planetmaker>a wonderful good morning to all, btw :)
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03:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't use signs...
03:54<planetmaker>you don't play multiplayer then :)
03:54<Eddi|zuHause2>indeed ;)
03:55<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, i'm on strike anyway ;)
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03:58<planetmaker>you're on strike?
03:58<planetmaker>how that? and why that?
03:58*planetmaker 's curious
03:58<Eddi|zuHause2>because YAPP is not included yet ;)
03:59<Noldo>:)
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04:07<planetmaker>hehe :)
04:09<planetmaker>big patch which requires careful consideration
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04:29<Eddi|zuHause2>my main problem with non-trunk-inclusion over a long time is savegame compatibility
04:29<planetmaker>but that's a general problem of all patches, ain't it?
04:30<Eddi|zuHause2>yes and no, it is solveable if the patch author includes special savegame code
04:30<planetmaker>you can avoid that, if you bump savegame version yourself a bit more :)
04:30<planetmaker>^ which is easier, but more hackish :P
04:30<planetmaker>btw: is there an example somewhere how to include such savegame code?
04:31<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, the MiniIN
04:31<planetmaker>hm, will have to have a look. But I fear the MiniIN is so huge, I won't see the wood because of the trees (or however you call it in English ;) )
04:32<Eddi|zuHause2>well, most of these changes should be in settings.c and saveload.c
04:34<Eddi|zuHause2>but i still think trunk should be prepared so that people can use the minor savegame version for that
04:34<planetmaker>^that indeed would be a nice idea :)
04:34<planetmaker>but is just a nice idea unless you find a volunteer to make a patch which implements it.
04:35<Eddi|zuHause2>trunk will then only ever be able to load games with minor savegame version == 0
04:35<Eddi|zuHause2>and patch authors will only ever bump the minor savegame version, not the major savegame version
04:36<planetmaker>though this not necessarily solves anything like savegame incompatibility.
04:36<Eddi|zuHause2>it uncouples trunk savegame bumps from patch savegame bumps
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04:36<Eddi|zuHause2>decouple?
04:37<Eddi|zuHause2>whatever
04:37<planetmaker>IIRC decouple. but whatever :)
04:37<Eddi|zuHause2>in most cases, these should be orthogonal
04:37<Eddi|zuHause2>only obvious special case is merging a patch to trunk
04:38<Eddi|zuHause2>this will help developing one patch with savegame compatibility over time, but not merging patches into patch packs
04:40<planetmaker>hm... but I don't see how this is easily to integrate in the save or load code of a savegame.
04:40<planetmaker>you'd always have to tell it to handle the trunkish stuff special which means you have to tell it what is trunk in the first place
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04:41<planetmaker>so far - as I understood from a brief look - it's kind of monolithic writing down the settings structure. But I may be wrong
04:41<planetmaker>and special cases for different savegame versions.
04:46<iAN_>hi Pikka
04:47<Pikka>hello
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07:13<@peter1138>hm
07:18<Brianetta>HM
07:22<Gekz>HM?
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07:24<@peter1138>yes
07:25<Gekz>I have to agree.
07:27<planetmaker>oh, certainly yes!
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07:56<Eddi|zuHause>oh yeah... windows firewall at work...
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>i have 4 computers in the network, computer A on WinXP has windows shares
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>i can access the windows shares from computer B (Win95) and C (SuSE)
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>but not from computer D (Knoppix)
07:57<@Rubidium>that one's behind a router?
07:58<@Rubidium>or has IP .1?
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>depends on what you call router
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>it is on a different network, yes
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>computer C is .1
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i disabled the firewall temporarily, now it works
07:59<@Rubidium>so A, B and C are in 192.168.0.X and D in 192.168.1.Y (or similar)
08:00<Gekz>lol
08:00<@Rubidium>then for Windows D is a computer on "the internet" that's accessing it, so the firewall goes into block all mode
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>eah
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>+y
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>is there any way to tell the windows firewall, that it is also "local"?
08:02<ln>no comma in front of "that".
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>there has to in german
08:03<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yes, but whether it includes hexediting the firewall is something I don't know
08:03*iAN_ sighs
08:03<iAN_>pew. just spend 646 Euro for an external roof-box on my car
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>i should just set up a proper bridge instead of routing on computer C
08:12<@peter1138>spent
08:12<@peter1138>heh
08:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13461 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: add A* to regression, so we test it a bit (very basic test ;))
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08:37<Eddi|zuHause>yay, i think i found the option ;)
08:38<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: still on strike?
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>sure...
08:39<Ammler>:-)
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08:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13462 /trunk/src/ (driver.cpp driver.h): -Codechange: move DriverFactoryBase destructor definition from header file (saves ~16kB)
08:54<@Belugas>[01:15] <Pikka> Belugas: you'll be pleased to hear that the new industry var works perfectly. :) <-- I am so happy (and releved) to read that :D I just can't wait to joyfully play with these industries !!
08:56<Pikka>muahahaha... just gotta decide what I'm gonna do with them now ;)
08:56<@Belugas>lol
08:56<@Belugas>and to think it was already drawn ;)
08:56*Pikka is definitely making earlier variations of the oil chain and the power plant and the fuel depots... maybe adding a coal gasification plant?
08:57<Pikka>the early oilwells are more or less drawn :)
09:00<Noldo>I have to wonder how smatz comes up with those saves
09:01<@SmatZ>easiest way is to run compilation with -Winline
09:01<@SmatZ>where it fails to inline
09:01<@SmatZ>there it is better to move it to cpp
09:02<@SmatZ>generally
09:02<@SmatZ>like in this case...
09:03<@Belugas>i'm sure you're going to produce a killer set, Pikka :)
09:03<@Belugas>if you need anything, just knock
09:03<@Belugas>will be a pleasure
09:03<@Belugas>... as long as i understand exactly what you need ... ;)
09:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13463 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [Library CHANGE]: AyStar is now more object oriented, and you can indicate the amount of iterations FindPath should do in one go (tnx to Yexo and TrueBrain)
09:06<Wuisch>any super secret awesome stuff on the verge of being released?
09:06<@Belugas>hoooo.. the little curious one that we have in here ;)
09:06<Pikka>Wuisch: if there is, it's a secret. :P
09:07<Wuisch>but maybe there was a super secret spy that would trust in my upstanding honesty that I won't ever tell *nods*
09:07<@Belugas>but anyone following our commits lately should have all the hints required
09:07<@Belugas>hehehe
09:08<@Belugas>or rather my commits...
09:09<Wuisch>hmmm I stumbled upon em once... but could you give me a link to where those commits been located so I can go all sherlock holmes on em? :)
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09:10<@SmatZ>Wuisch: http://git.openttd.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=svn/trunk.git
09:12<Wuisch>Exxccellent, Smitters get my pipe and monocle
09:14*Belugas dives into work@work
09:14<@Belugas>have fun guys
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09:42<@Rubidium>Wuisch: you should take a look at my IRC logs ;)
09:42<@Rubidium>it's just that I don't publish them
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09:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13464 /trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: support NewGRF Action 0x05, type 12.
09:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13465 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (aqueduct.nfo aqueduct.pcx chars.nfo openttd.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: sprites for action 0x05, type 12.
09:55<@peter1138>aka
09:56<@peter1138>r13464: -Feature: Add support for aqueducts
09:56<@peter1138>because hiding it is really useful
09:56<@Rubidium>yup ;)
09:56<@Rubidium>noone cares ;)
09:56<ln>support for the roman empire
09:57<hylje>for the emperor
09:57<@SmatZ>well, I am not the one who will update changelog.txt...
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10:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13466 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13464): slope checking got lost during development...
10:23<Wuisch>aquaducts... like a bridge for boats? if only we had more boat grfs
10:24-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@129.187.61.232] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
10:26<@peter1138>no, aqueducts
10:26<Wuisch>Was there a giant party when you hit r10000?
10:26<Gekz>there was a cake
10:27<Wuisch>I was told it was a lie!?
10:27<@SmatZ>http://www.openttd.org/images/screens/r10000/r10000.png
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10:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13467 /branches/noai/src/station_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix [OpenTTD Core]: make CmdRemoveRoadStop use p2 as documented (only look at bit 0, not at the complete value)
10:30-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-220-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:30<Wuisch>Hmmm... did they make it over a Computer screen or do they have some kind of awesome screenshot to cake glazing convertor? *note to self create and patent screenshot to cake glazing convertor*
10:31<Gekz>you print it on edible paper
10:31<Gekz>and put it on the cake
10:31<Gekz>its not hard
10:33-!-Poopsmith [~Poopsmith@39.206.55.210.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:33<Wuisch>but but but... isn't inkt poisonous? its what me mum always said "Don't eat yer pen or ye're gonna die a horrible horrible black inky death"
10:33<hylje>kinky death
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10:35<@peter1138>yes
10:35<@peter1138>everyone who are it died
10:35<hylje>ink isn't alive to begin with
10:35<@peter1138>*ate
10:35<@peter1138>:o
10:36<hylje>the level of obviousness remains unchanged :>
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's why it is a lie, no living person has ever seen it!
10:37<Wuisch>seriously though it should be possible to make an awesome cake machine that can convert jpg's to cake, and once I have created it I will rule to world and the cake will no longer be a lie
10:38<@Rubidium>Wuisch, go design one: http://hema.nl/nl-nl/winkel/gebak/taart%20op%20maat/ontwerp.aspx?productid=6333600&productvariantid=6333600&name=taart+op+maat+amandelschaafsel
10:40<Wuisch>That is beyond awesome
10:45<@Rubidium>they do that already for years
10:45-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
10:45<Wuisch>seems my plan is foiled again >_< back to the drawing board...
10:46<yorick>heh, I like how the commit messages of big things are sometimes cryptical
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>where did you think the cake came from?
10:46-!-iAN_ [~UNIX@212.223.130.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>"sometimes" :p
10:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13468 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make aqueducts a little more expensive than normal bridges and disable terraforming of aqueduct bridgeheads; one can't terraform normal canal tiles either.
10:52<yorick>congrats, you just ruined the cryptic message!
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10:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13470 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [Library CHANGE]: allow in graph.aystar to give a custom param to the callbacks, so you can send in an instance of yourself
10:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13469 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add support for loading Action 0x05, type 0F: "tracks for slopes". It's not useful right now, but it will be in the future.
10:56<planetmaker>he, I think wwottdgd has to run with a version >= 13468. Canal bridges are just too nice eye candy :)
10:56<@peter1138>action 5 type F is a horrible hack
10:56<@peter1138>but never mind
10:57<@peter1138>i guess i can unsupport it later
10:57<yorick>what does that mean?
10:57<yorick>"tracks for slopes"
10:57<Wuisch>so whats the diffrence between an aqua duct and a viaduct?
10:57<@peter1138>aqueduct
10:57<@peter1138>aqueduct is for water
10:57<yorick>aqueducts have water over them
10:57<Wuisch>ooh right
10:57<@peter1138>viaduct is for other forms of transport
10:57<Mchl>one ducts roads, other ducts water
10:57<@Rubidium>peter1138: newroutes or whatever it's called should just define *all* graphics and the issue is gone ;)
10:57<yorick>viaducts have roads
10:58<@peter1138>exactly
10:58<yorick>now what does "tracks for slopes" mean?
10:58<@Rubidium>read the wiki
10:58<@peter1138>pbs highlighing on sloped track
10:58<@peter1138>that's all it's used for
10:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13471 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (6 files): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: graphics for Action 0x05, type 0F.
10:59<yorick>doesn't seem very useful
10:59<@peter1138>well it stops the "omg my track isn't highlighted" bug reports
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11:00<@peter1138>so maybe there'll be a "-Codechange: modify signal updating" at some point
11:00<yorick>:D
11:01<@peter1138>although possibly not as Rubidium does not like YAPP
11:01<yorick>he doesn't what?
11:01<Mchl>let's call it something different then
11:01<Mchl>meybe he'll like i tthen
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>exactly...
11:02*Rubidium points out the YAPP means Yet Another Patch Pack
11:03-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: brb]
11:04*Mchl tries to get allpossible meanings out of this
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'm quite sure that Rubidium's problem has to do with pathfinder penalties
11:05<Mchl>he's penalising pathfinders?
11:05<yorick>he does not not like Yet Another PBS Patch!
11:05-!-blaab [~0blivious@3E339CE3.dslaccess.aol.com] has quit []
11:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13472 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Backport (r13467 from NoAI): make CmdRemoveRoadStop use p2 as documented (only look at bit 0, not at the complete value)
11:09<yorick>why can't aqueducts be sloped at one side
11:09<TiberiusTeng>so ... it's the PBS idea bad, the 'huge' yapp patch file that's extremely difficult to proof-read/check/commit, the original developer didn't cooperate with debugging/code-style changing request, or just feeling uneasy for 'somebody out there' writing a such large patchset? :p
11:09<yorick>oh...wait...maybe with a lock at the end?
11:09-!-GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has quit []
11:09<@Rubidium>cause a lock takes 3 tiles
11:09<@peter1138>TiberiusTeng: no
11:09<yorick>TiberiusTeng, where does someone say he hates it?
11:10<@Rubidium>and because nobody bothered to draw sloped aqueduct ramp tiles
11:10<TiberiusTeng>well I'm just guessing, neither of them is true
11:11<yorick>TiberusTeng, we aren't talking about PBS
11:12<TiberiusTeng>ahh, yet another patch pack? sorry :p
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11:14<Mchl>I think that canals are not properly drawn when under aqueducts
11:15-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F56B90.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:18<Mchl>when canal is next to aqueduct bridgehead, it is drawn without its bank on that side
11:19<yorick>how did you place a canal next to an aqueduct bridgehead?
11:20<Wuisch>is there a way to compile a ttd version when running vista?
11:20<Mchl>under an aqueduct
11:20<Mchl>next to a slope on which aqueduct starts
11:20<Mchl>or ends :P
11:20<Mchl>i can post a screenshot
11:20-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499EEE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:21<yorick>can reproduce, could you post it on flyspray? (bugs.openttd.org)
11:21<@SmatZ>http://dev.openttd.org/~smatz/aqua3.png
11:22<@SmatZ>there are more problems with canal borders
11:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13473 /branches/noai/ (36 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with r13417:13472.
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11:25<[com]buster>lock destruction is also glitchy
11:26<Mchl>yeah, it leaves canal tile, where it wasn't build before
11:26<+glx>not new
11:26<@SmatZ>it has been this way for ages
11:27<Mchl>i know
11:28<Mchl>is there a possibility to browse flyspray by a keyword?
11:28<@SmatZ>there is "search" button
11:29<Mchl>yep... just noticed
11:29<Mchl>i had some task opened, where there's only Show Task # window
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11:31<[com]buster>http://dimensionalrift.homelinux.net/combuster/lockglitch.png <- strange
11:32<@SmatZ>[com]buster: no
11:32<[com]buster>i can guess how the code works
11:32<[com]buster>just wondering
11:32<[com]buster>is that a feature?
11:33<Mchl>undocumented one
11:33<[com]buster>I thought it would be 'o.o'
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11:34<[com]buster>its like, don't do what I expect :-/
11:34<Eddi|zuHause><Wuisch> is there a way to compile a ttd version when running vista? <- yes.
11:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13474 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: remove the restriction of 10 params per Valuator
11:35<Wuisch>Ahh thanks :)
11:35<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: you sure?
11:36-!-Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1212.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i'm just not sure why anybody would want to run vista
11:36-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|afk
11:37<hylje>because it's what everyone will use
11:37<trd>Well, it is this thing called "the only viable windows version that supports amd64 adequatly".
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11:37<[com]buster>If i want 64-bit support I rather use linux
11:37<Wuisch>I like shiney things that use massive amounts of memory?
11:37<[com]buster>vista's not worth it
11:38<trd>buster: Give me FreeBSD with DirectX 10 support, and I'd kill my vista installation instantly.
11:38<hylje>where do you need dx10?
11:38<[com]buster>wait for the next release of wine :p
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>Wuisch: there's always Beryl/Compiz ;)
11:38-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has joined #openttd
11:38<trd>"need" is very.... odd. You don't *need* a gui for anything. Textmode is best.
11:39<trd>DirectX 10 has some better ways of doing some things than DirectX 9, even though all modern games only use it for useless eyecandy.
11:39<@Rubidium>luckily DirectX10-sdk isn't backward compatible
11:40<Wuisch>anyhow how would I go about compiling open ttd in vista?
11:40<@Rubidium>install about 3 GB of shiny memory sucking applications, libraries and SDKs
11:41<hylje>and pray it'll work
11:41<hylje>if it doesn't, hunt for a hotfix and pray that will then work
11:41<@Rubidium>cause as vista isn't backward compatible as everybody thinks the easy non-memory sucking and non-HDD sucking method fails
11:41-!-GoneWacko [GoneWacko@86-60-148-44-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #openttd
11:43<Wuisch>Sounds fun
11:48<planetmaker>e.g. install a proper compiler suite
11:49<bowman>compiling with cygwin works the same in vista
11:50<planetmaker>which is in some way also a compiler suite :P
11:50<bowman>once all the crap is turned off there really isn't any significant difference between vista and previous nt5-iterations
11:50<bowman>apart from the directx stuff that is
11:51<bowman>but killing off directsound turned out rather well :)
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11:54<planetmaker>time for football :)
11:54<Guest69>how can i solve my "network-game connection lost" error i'm getting frequently, that boots me out of the server im trying to play on
11:55-!-Guest69 is now known as UserError
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11:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13475 /trunk/src/ (tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix (r13464): crash on destroying aquaduct with ship on in and on company bankrupt
11:57*hylje is puzzled by this curious crash bug
11:57<hylje>assuming a common cause
11:58<@peter1138>well tested feature :p
11:58-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009653.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
11:59<yorick>FS#2035: I didn't know that you could "lunch" openttd!
11:59<@SmatZ>I lunch openttd every day
11:59<yorick>is it a new feature?
12:00-!-user1 [~Gabe@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
12:00<@SmatZ>-Feature: now you can lunch your OpenTTD every day
12:00-!-UserError [~Gabe@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:00<Mchl>and you get hand painted developer fig in each pack!
12:01<@SmatZ>peter1138: untested actually
12:03*Rubidium can't help it when asking others to help testing that nothing happens or that they don't tell about issues they've found until it gets committed
12:04<@peter1138>yorick: you can 'crush' it too
12:05<@SmatZ>Rubidium: last time you asked was version without working pathfinders, you certainly didn't ask about version you commited
12:10<yorick>I didn't see you asking there?
12:10<yorick>And what's next, aquetunnels?
12:12<@Rubidium>noes
12:12<@Rubidium>those suck ;)
12:12<@Rubidium>and there aren't ships small enough to go into a real one
12:12<@Rubidium>(ships in OTTD)
12:13-!-Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
12:13*yorick wants Shipports!
12:17<@peter1138>lies
12:17<@peter1138>newgrf barges!
12:17-!-Lex [~lex@70.188-233-85.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #openttd
12:17*yorick wants undo button
12:17<Wuisch>aye more shipsmore ports... better yet lets abandon all the other forms of transportation and fully focus development on ships! ^^
12:17<@peter1138>add a property bitmask: can go through tunnels, can go over aqueducts
12:17<@peter1138>pbs for ships?
12:18<svippy>:O
12:18*yorick wants ship signals
12:18<svippy>Ship signals.
12:18*yorick wants ship pathfinder
12:18<svippy>That's just silly.
12:18<hylje>waterways for ships to work in
12:18<svippy>Pathfinder. Now you're making sense.
12:18<svippy>Maybe cooler channels.
12:18<hylje>like rails but more freeform and automatic
12:18<svippy>Like channel bridges.
12:18<Wuisch>well collision detection might be a bit undoable with the small size of channels but it would be neat
12:18*yorick wants real ferries with cars
12:19<yorick>^^
12:19<hylje>:o
12:19<yorick>ship queueing
12:19<hylje>and trains
12:19<svippy>Oh dear.
12:19<svippy>Cheaper than bridges?
12:19*yorick wants floating bridges
12:19<svippy>Otherwise it wouldn't make sense.
12:19<yorick>svippy, over longer distances, offcourse
12:19<hylje>with deep water it'd be feasible
12:19<svippy>And the ability to make tunnels that is like a hole in the ground.
12:19*yorick wants deep water!
12:19*peter1138 throws yorick into the sea
12:20<hylje>because 1) deepwater bridges are expensive 2) it's even more expensive to excavate underwater
12:20*yorick wants enhanced tunnels
12:20<Wuisch>I want every ship on http://www.shipspotting.com/ in ttd :P but since my time is way more important then you guys someone else must do it
12:20<svippy>And maybe a global scenario where the water rises a level during game play.
12:20<svippy>Bam!
12:20<hylje>it's civ2 all over again
12:20<svippy>s/global/global warming/
12:20<svippy>Damnit.
12:20*Belugas is tempted to attach yorick to tracks in tunel entrance
12:21<yorick>yes, tornados!
12:21<svippy>And maybe a map type where the water is lava.
12:21<svippy>Oh dear, that is just a image replacement.
12:22<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13476 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix: draw canal borders for locks and when directly next to a aquaduct entrace but under the aqueduct.
12:22<yorick>what? no scenario editor aqueducts?!
12:22<svippy>:S
12:22<svippy>It's aquaduct.
12:22<svippy>I think.
12:22<hylje>aqueduct is correct i believe
12:22<svippy>:|
12:23<svippy>Damn English.
12:23<Mchl>not english
12:23<@Rubidium>svippy: use a dictionary!
12:23<svippy>>:| I have one.
12:23<hylje>use it!
12:23<svippy>Which agrees with hylje.
12:23<yorick>it's "aquaduct" in any other language
12:23<hylje>not in finnish
12:23<svippy>Indeed!
12:23<hylje>you lie
12:23<Mchl>not in polish
12:23<svippy>Finnish is silly anyway.
12:23<svippy>24 grammatical cases?
12:23<hylje>more than that
12:23<svippy>Tune it down, please.
12:23<svippy>Which is why I have gone over to Estonian.
12:24<yorick>correction: every language that has a word that sounds like "aqueduct"
12:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13477 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r13464): correct tile type in the Query tile info window
12:24<Sacro>svippy: actually it varies
12:24<Mchl>http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquae_ductus
12:24<svippy>What varies, Sacro?
12:25<Sacro>svippy: spelling
12:25<svippy>So I realise.
12:25<yorick>Mchl, yes, that
12:25<Sacro>i prefer aquæduct
12:25<Mchl>latin pronounciation would be closer to aque than aqua
12:25<yorick>not if seperating the words
12:26<Prof_Frink>What have the Romans ever done for us eh?
12:26<svippy>Right, Sacro.
12:26<yorick>inventing aqueducts
12:26<svippy>Just like encyclopaedia.
12:26<Sacro>Prof_Frink: don't start that :p
12:26-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Getting to the chinese where they sell chinese food to eat that]
12:26<Sacro>svippy: encyclopædia
12:26<svippy>I have æ in my language.
12:26<svippy>What do you have?
12:26<Mchl>I don't
12:26<Prof_Frink>yer mum.
12:26<svippy>We even spell it "Cæsar".
12:27<svippy>I feel sorry for you, Prof_Frink.
12:27<Mchl>it all falls back to 'e' in polish
12:27<svippy>So there is only e in Polish?
12:27<svippy>Neat.
12:27<Mchl>e eee ee ee eee eeeee e
12:27<svippy>Beautiful language.
12:28<hylje>Mchl: AAAA AAAAAAAAA!
12:28<Mchl>oh sorry... english only
12:29<Mchl>that's silesian dialect I believe
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12:37<Wuisch>My god I think i'm compiling
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12:39<Prof_Frink>Arie*: Are there anough of you?
12:40<Arie>dunno, my connection apperantly fucks up when i use google maps and zoom in / out a lot
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12:40<Arie>strange though
12:42<@Belugas>i guess that it's time to grab my lunch now...
12:42<@Belugas>way passed my regular time
12:43<Mchl>almost supper time here
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12:43<Mchl>I'd beter go buy some water, while the shops are still open
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12:49<Wuisch>buy water?
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12:56<Touqen>Not everyone likes tap water.
12:56<Prof_Frink>Then they're silly.
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12:57<[com]buster>Sometimes it's a bad idea to dring tap water
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12:57<Wuisch>I firmly believe that if you just fill up the spa bottle with tap water 90% won't notice the diffrence
12:57<[com]buster>a _really_ bad idea
12:57<[com]buster>maybe not in your country
12:57<Wuisch>yeah if you live in an undeveloped country... like greece
12:57<[com]buster>France'll do :)
12:57<Prof_Frink>Wuisch: Only 90%?
12:58<Wuisch>the other 10% melts
12:58<hylje>bottled water tends to be worse off around here
12:58<hylje>it's only the novelty and lack of choice
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12:59<Wuisch>I'm still wondering if it'd be possible to hookup a main line to a brewery and have beer flow from yer taps
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12:59<Prof_Frink>Could take a while to prime the pump
13:00<Wuisch>it'd be totally worth it though
13:00<Prof_Frink>And with losses along the pipe, it'd be a damn heavy pump
13:00<Wuisch>nothing reels in the ladies like beer guzzling
13:00<Prof_Frink>But yes.
13:00<Wolf01>hello
13:00<Wuisch>well not much heavier then water is it?
13:00<Prof_Frink>Or you could get a cellar
13:01<Wuisch>I suppose just getting a tank beneath yer house and have it filled up every once in a while would work too
13:01<Prof_Frink>Like I said. Cellar. Complete with street hatch for deliveries
13:02<Wuisch>but where will I put my daughter and incestuous children then?
13:02<Vikthor>The problem is, you have to have high consumption
13:02<hylje>you build another cellar
13:02<Wuisch>well beer showers take quite a bit I reckon
13:03<Vikthor>if this is the case than I rest my case :D
13:03<Prof_Frink>Hmm, would I run the pipeline to Ringwood or Blandford?
13:03<Prof_Frink>decisions, decisions...
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13:04<Wuisch>running a pipeline all the way to belgium would be quite Expensive I suppose
13:05<Prof_Frink>And if I were in Kent, it'd go to Shepherd Neame anyways
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13:05<Prof_Frink>A pipeline to get Red Cuillin. Now that'd be expensive.
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13:10<fjb>Hello
13:11<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13478 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: don't use GetBridgeSpec() for aqueducts
13:11<Wuisch>ello
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13:11<fjb>Hm... aqueducts?
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13:12<Wuisch>thats like a water bridge
13:12<fjb>I know. But they are new in the game.
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13:13<Wuisch>well since about 10 code change
13:14<Prof_Frink>Hmm, does that mean we'll be able to recreate the M6Toll?
13:14<Prof_Frink>New motorway, bridge over it to carry the canal
13:14<fjb>M6Toll? What is that?
13:15<Prof_Frink>Only problem... No canal!
13:15<Mchl>Wuish: don't drink tap water in Warsaw, ever
13:15<Wuisch>isn't tap water vodka there?
13:15<yorick>technically, aquaducts can be bridges and tunnels
13:15<Mchl>in my home city, it's safe
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13:15<Mchl>but in Warsaw.... well yeah... I suppose you could get intoxicated as if it was vodka
13:15<fjb>Do we have sprites for aqueducts?
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13:16<yorick>fjb, yes, we do
13:16*Prof_Frink wants a suspension aqueduct
13:17<fjb>That are good news.
13:17*yorick wants a subterranian aqueducts
13:17<fjb>I like aqueducts.
13:17<Wuisch>wants more boats and better ports
13:17<fjb>AOL
13:17<yorick>newgrf_ports!
13:17<Prof_Frink>Wuisch: Not more boats...
13:17<Prof_Frink>I want an ekranoplan.
13:17<fjb>And ships that don't go through each other.
13:17<Wuisch>ekranoplan?
13:17<bowman>hehe
13:18<fjb>Ground effect device?
13:18<Prof_Frink>Aye
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13:18<fjb>How fast can ships be in OpenTTD?
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13:18<yorick>79 km/h, methinks
13:19<Prof_Frink>iirc 127mph was max in ttd
13:19<yorick>or was it 74 pixels per tick?
13:19<yorick>per second
13:19<Wuisch>is it hard to make new ships ?
13:19<yorick>yeah, 74 px per second
13:19<yorick>not very
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13:20<Eddi|zuHause>as "easy" as any newgrf, considering you have to hex-hack most of it
13:20*yorick wants aqueducts in scenario editor :)
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13:20<fjb>Hm, road vehicles are limited to 127km/h.
13:20<Wuisch>hexhack... now that sounds annoying
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13:21<yorick>only planes and trains can go faster, fjb
13:22<Wuisch>why is that?
13:22<Prof_Frink>CS said so.
13:22<fjb>Are roadveclis still limited like that in TTDP?
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13:22<yorick>because it was so in the original game
13:22<Prof_Frink>Sounds like a job for
13:22<yorick>and changing it would require changing the whole mechanism of drawing rvs and ships
13:22<frosch123>roadvehicles are not limited to 127 kmh
13:22<Wuisch>but can't that limit be removed?
13:22<Prof_Frink>peter1138! NewFasterStuff!
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13:22<DaleStan>Limited to 2040 mph, I think.
13:23<Wuisch>that sounds tricksy
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13:23<Ammler>there was a patch for RVs, wasn't?
13:23<fjb>That sounds better. :-)
13:23*frosch123 calculates 511 km/h
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13:24<Ammler>frosch123: but there is no set which has more speed?
13:25<yorick>any faster things for ships?
13:25*frosch123 only uses RV, when he has to test something, so no idea
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13:26<fjb>I guess LongVehicles has some busses which are fster than 127km/h. But I don't use TTDP, so I'm not sure.
13:27<@peter1138>gah, mythtv sucks
13:27<@peter1138>and me-tv is digital only
13:28<fjb>Yes...
13:28*frosch123 only managed to configure kdetv, though it sounds noobish
13:30*yorick still wants aqueducts in scenario editor and knows how long it could take if he posted it on FS
13:30*SmatZ agrees
13:30<frosch123>yorick: So you do not want locks in SE?
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13:31<Ammler>aquaducts looks a little bit strange, can't you make them 2 tiles high?
13:31<@SmatZ>frosch123: well, why not
13:32<Ammler>maybe I find an old screen at tt-forums to show what I mean.
13:32<yorick>frosch123, yes I do, but I see aqueducts implemented slightly more soon, because every other type has bridges
13:32<yorick>road, that is
13:32<frosch123>and who should own them? I never figured out, why you can build canals in SE
13:32<@SmatZ>frosch123: OWNER_NONE
13:33<Ammler>something like that: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=576140#p576140
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13:33<fjb>Better invent the generation of rivers...
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13:34<yorick>fjb, we already did that
13:35<yorick>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Lively_Rivers
13:35-!-Barry__ [~chatzilla@bg1078138.hum.uva.nl] has joined #openttd
13:35<fjb>Oh, where? What did I miss?
13:35-!-Barry__ is now known as Barry
13:35<fjb>Is it implemented?
13:35<yorick>inventing != implementing
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13:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13479 /trunk/src/ (dock_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: don't use word 'bridge' for aqueducts that often
13:37<Ammler>wow, didn't know there are those many aquaducts in RL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_canal_aqueducts_in_Great_Britain
13:37<fjb>Hm, ok, than implement that first.
13:37<fjb>They are quite common.
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>canal bridges are quite common
13:38<Ammler>is there a aquaduct _not_ over a river?
13:39<Prof_Frink>Yes. Over t'M6Toll.
13:39<yorick>18 in Holland
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>well, most of the others look more like tunnels
13:39<Prof_Frink>(Except it's missing the "aque" bit atm)
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13:42<Ammler>SmatZ: please, make a goal :-)
13:44<Wuisch>I'm going to try and make a ship for ottd.... Time till I get bored with it 15 minutes 35 seconds
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ vor, noch ein Tor! :p
13:44<yorick>[19:30] * @SmatZ agrees <-- maybe then SmatZ could code and commit it with the reward of a "<yorick> thank you SmatZ"?
13:44<@SmatZ>:-)
13:45<@SmatZ>I have exam tommorow, maybe later :)
13:45<@SmatZ>you may place a feature request if it is not there already
13:45<Ammler>SmatZ: don't talk, press the thumb
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13:45-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
13:45<Ammler>(if you do that in your home...)
13:46<@SmatZ>hehe yeah
13:46<Sacro>Bjarni!
13:47<yorick>SacroBjarni!
13:47<Prof_Frink>Scriptro!
13:48<yorick>hello coder-who-likes-aqueducts-in-scenario-editor-and-can-commit-it-before-nightly?
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13:48<@SmatZ>dpc
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13:49<yorick>SmatZ, shall I assign it to you?
13:49<@SmatZ>yorick: no
13:50<@Bjarni>yorick: don't count on getting something committed 10 minutes before a nightly build
13:50<@SmatZ>yorick: don't misuse FS bugs :-P
13:51<@Bjarni>since it will take more than 10 minutes to verify that it is good enough, both featurevise and codevise
13:51<Ammler>aqueducts in scenario editor is like rivers in the game... :P
13:51<@peter1138>no it's not
13:51<@SmatZ>it's like canals inSE
13:51<yorick>not misusing it, just using the field where it is supposed to be used for
13:52<@peter1138>'n roads 'n bridges
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14:10<Wolf01>ooooooh aqueducts..
14:10<Wolf01>nice
14:10<Wolf01>I would have restricted the min height to 2 tiles
14:11<Ammler>Wolf01: I guess, it is hard to implement
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14:15<Wolf01>also "presence time softwares" are hard to develop, like this http://www.oltremare.net/images/foglio_presenze_lista.gif and after developing a software like this I think there is nothing impossible :P
14:16<yorick>Ammler, I guess it isn't
14:17<yorick>if height < 2 then fail()
14:17<Prof_Frink>min/max heights and lengths are better left to newgrfs
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14:19<Wolf01>in case of aqueducts I think that a standard higher limit should be better
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14:21<Wuisch>whats the biggest size a boat can be?
14:21<Prof_Frink>Wuisch: About yay big
14:21<@SmatZ>yay, that's a big ship!
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14:22<Wuisch>Argghhh
14:23<Wolf01>I think 458m until now
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14:41<Wolf01>I was starting to type "Is possible to open timetables with status window?" when I clicked with ctrl on the orders button...
14:42<@SmatZ>:)
14:42<@SmatZ>crtl is very powerful
14:43<Wolf01>I should update the key guide on my site
14:43<planetmaker>^ is your site the wiki? :)
14:44<planetmaker>or can you point me to your site?
14:44<planetmaker>(short cuts are just so nice...) :)
14:44<Wolf01>no, somebody copied it from my site, translated it to English and then posted to the wiki
14:44<planetmaker>oh...
14:44<Wuisch>Hmm It might have been smart of me to draw the ship from the right angle I suppose a roofless ship wouldn't really work
14:45<planetmaker>what's your site then, Wolf01 ?
14:46<Wolf01>transporttycoon.game-host.org, if still work
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14:50<planetmaker>he, italian :). Somewhat hard to figure out, but with a bit of fantasy it works for me :)
14:54<Mchl>Wuisch: better roofless, than bottomless...
14:55<@Bjarni>yeah
14:55<@SmatZ>hehe
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>depends on...
14:56<@Bjarni>there were a ship that transported some sort of metal and since it got wet it started producing hydrogen. Days later they started to repair something and turned on a welding unit
14:56<@Bjarni>then it became bottomless
14:56<Wolf01>mmh, I just noticed that alt+enter doesn't work anymore, the window blinks and nothing happen
14:56<@Bjarni>the insurance company didn't want to pay because no SOS was sent
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14:57<@Bjarni><Mchl> Wuisch: better roofless, than bottomless... <-- odds are that some people would think it's the opposite with women
14:58<hylje>bjarni? women? have i missed something?
14:58<@Bjarni>which means... women != ships (or women = !ships)
14:58<@Bjarni>hylje: you always miss stuff
14:59*Bjarni notes that hylje is a Sacro wannabe
14:59<Sacro>isn't everyone
14:59<@Bjarni>looks like he highlights on words like "women"
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15:00<@Bjarni>Sacro: I got something for you
15:00<@Bjarni>Sacro: (.)(.)
15:00<@SmatZ>no, he highlights on "men", but it is part of "women"
15:00<@Bjarni>that should keep him busy
15:00<Sacro>mm, boobs
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15:03<Wuisch>well back to the drawing board
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15:23<Wuisch>does the nightly built include the aquaducts?
15:24<Wuisch>Never mind already know :P
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15:28<@peter1138>no, it includes aqueducts
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15:31<Wuisch>will there also be a function of aque ducts so you don't have to raise the hill to go over a road? Don't really care just wondering
15:31<Prof_Frink>Falkirk wheel!
15:32<Sacro>whalkirk feel?
15:32<Prof_Frink>'s what she said.
15:33<Wuisch>thats quite a neat little thing... I once visited a giant sluis.... whats that called again...
15:34<@peter1138>well you can lower the road...
15:34<@SmatZ>hehe one can build 2040 tiles long aqueduct
15:35<@SmatZ>but not bridge :-/
15:35<Wuisch>true its not something thats really important it works this way and really how often do I use canals anyhow :p
15:35<@SmatZ>Wuisch: I think it is unrealistic
15:36<@SmatZ>water level can change only in locks
15:36<@SmatZ>not on bridge heads
15:37<Wuisch>alter the bridge head to look like a lock... but that would require ships to stop and such... meh on to other subjects Cheese
15:38<@SmatZ>and it would need to be much longer
15:38<@SmatZ>3 tiles long bridge head
15:38<@Belugas>GIMME GIMME GIMNME MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!!!!!
15:38<@SmatZ>etc etc
15:38<@SmatZ>not possible
15:38-!-Farden [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:38<@SmatZ>wasted time for that, really
15:39<Wuisch>I want MORE!
15:39<@Belugas>make it then
15:39-!-mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
15:39<Wuisch>I don't know how to make cheese >_<
15:40-!-mucht_home is now known as Mucht
15:40<Sacro>Wuisch: tis easy
15:40<@Belugas>try asking google. the answer is OUT THERE
15:40<Wuisch>thats what they said to me when I was looking for the copulation of goats...
15:41<Sacro>goat copulation?
15:41<@SmatZ>no, don't make it, it wouldn't be included
15:42<Wuisch>specially with my ultra special non compiling code ^^
15:42-!-[alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
15:43<Wuisch>basicly it consists of a .txt containing the code "10 Make lock bridgehead goto 20 20 end "
15:44*frosch123 would prefer a lift bridge for the road
15:44<frosch123>kind of water-road-level crossing :p
15:45<Prof_Frink>frosch123: 's called a ford
15:45<frosch123>including crashing roadvehicles, when the bridge opens and a raodvehicle was too slow
15:46*frosch123 never saw roadvehicles driving through a ford
15:46-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-165-98-32.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
15:46<Wuisch>you mean b asicly a drawbridge? probably hard to implement aswell but go for it
15:46*planetmaker even drove through some fords. Living in NZ is not possible without :P
15:47<Prof_Frink>frosch123: If you make it, you have to make a special GRF for lifting bridges in the middle of cities
15:47<fjb>We even still have some in Germany. But you only need them when you lost your way.
15:48-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:48-!-[alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
15:49<@SmatZ>planetmaker: did you live in the New Zaeland?
15:49<Wuisch>I lived in the old zeeland
15:49<planetmaker>Yes, I did for bit more than a year.
15:50<yorick>Wuisch: lived, or live?
15:50<@SmatZ>interesting
15:50<planetmaker>not anymore :). So past tense :)
15:50<planetmaker>or maybe :( ?
15:50<Wuisch>Lived
15:50<planetmaker>was a great time :)
15:51<yorick>then where do you live now, Wuisch?
15:51<planetmaker>He. Quite a distance between Zeeland and New Zealand :)
15:51<Wuisch>I'll never tell! think of all the people coming to seek my advice
15:51<planetmaker>I guess Zeeland is WAY closer for me now. Could be there in a few hours.
15:51<yorick>like a half globe
15:53<planetmaker>yeah. take 24h and you just may make it.
15:53<Wuisch>I now live in the edgecity!
15:53<yorick>:D
15:53<yorick>which city in the edgecity?
15:54<planetmaker>what or where is edgecity?
15:54<@Bjarni><Prof_Frink> frosch123: 's called a ford <-- a bridge that can open for ships is called a ford?
15:54<@Bjarni>never heard that before
15:54<yorick>heh
15:54<planetmaker>Bjarni: no :)
15:54<Wuisch>its a secret place where dutch people live planetmaker
15:55<@Bjarni>maybe that's why I haven't heard it before XD
15:55<planetmaker>hehe
15:55<@Bjarni>then what is a ford?
15:55<planetmaker>Bjarni: ford = level crossing water + road :)
15:55<@Bjarni>ahh
15:55<yorick>it's our secret place where we communicate with aliens and such
15:55<@Bjarni>I tried one of those once
15:55<@Bjarni>it was like there was a river and a road and somebody forgot to build a bridge
15:56<@Bjarni>but jeeps could get through the river
15:56<planetmaker>hehe. It requires sometimes a bit of courage to go through with a normal car :)
15:56*yorick also lives in the edgecity
15:57<@Bjarni><planetmaker> hehe. It requires sometimes a bit of courage to go through with a normal car :) <-- courage wasn't enough to drive on that road in a normal car
15:57<planetmaker>hehe :)
15:57<Wuisch>england had a lot of fords last year then
15:57<@Bjarni>heh
15:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13480 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2050]: RVs stoppping at drive through stations of other companies.
15:58<Prof_Frink>Wuisch: And my boss' father in law got stuck in one
15:58<Vikthor>Shared road stops? :D
15:58<planetmaker>:) I have them :)
15:59<Vikthor>Of course, but these were in trunk :D
15:59<@SmatZ>:-)
15:59<Wuisch>is it possible to make trucks at drive throughs pass a loading truck?
15:59<planetmaker>Bjarni: but those roads are probably most fun with the _right_ car :)
16:01*planetmaker will now give the new aqueducts a try :)
16:01<Wuisch>darn none of the servers have updated to the latest nightly yet
16:02<planetmaker>svn is your friend :)
16:02*yorick already gave the new aqueducts a try
16:03<Wuisch>Lets see how many water things I can have over each other
16:04<yorick>around 15
16:04<yorick>if you try hard
16:04<dih>[21:41] <Ammler> our turkey got the goal :-)
16:08<Wuisch>Nop Leiden
16:09<yorick>you know that's supposed to be a private message :P
16:09<yorick>geoip was wrong - as usual
16:09-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has quit [Quit: ecke]
16:10<Wuisch>Apperantly I live in bodegrave according to my ip
16:10<yorick>no, in The Hague, GeoIP says
16:11<Wuisch>geoIptool says bodegrave
16:11<yorick>heh, at least mine is correct
16:12<yorick>except for the case that I don't live in the MediaPark
16:12-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009653.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:14<Wuisch>this one puts me in haarlemmermeer... I'm all over the place
16:14<yorick>weeh! you're multiple!
16:14<Boyinblue0>there ya go combuster
16:14<Boyinblue0>free spot now
16:15<[com]buster>wrong channel, freind :)
16:15<Boyinblue0>woops lol
16:17<Wuisch>so when is the aquatunnel coming ?
16:17<yorick>pffm, dentist put a plastic layer on my teeth, feels wierd, and will be doing that for 3 years :(
16:17<yorick>never
16:17<yorick>because the ships are too big
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16:18<Wuisch>why don't just get artificial teeth straight away?
16:20<@Bjarni>because they are just as good compared to the real thing as artificial intelligence
16:21<Mchl>compared to?
16:21<planetmaker>proposal for aqueducts: make "b" the shortcut for them. It'd be consequent
16:21<@Bjarni>artificial teeth compared to real teeth
16:22<@Bjarni>artificial intelligence compared to real intelligence
16:22<@Bjarni>it's still an open question if the latter is available everywhere though
16:23<Mchl>I'll feed it into eliza, and tell what she thinks about it
16:24<Mchl>Eliza: Do you wish that the latter is available everywhere though?
16:26<@Bjarni>he is a nice guy
16:27<@Bjarni>I bet Eliza will answer something like that
16:29<Mchl>did Eliza ever answered in confirmative?
16:29<@SmatZ>!seen Eliza
16:29<@SmatZ>@seen Eliza
16:29<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen Eliza.
16:29<Mchl>http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza-cgi-bin/eliza_script
16:30<Wuisch>@seen boobies
16:30<@DorpsGek>Wuisch: I have not seen boobies.
16:30<Wuisch>Hahaha... i'm a comedy genious
16:30<Mchl>Wuisch: you owe me new keyboard
16:31<Wuisch>you broke when you rolled over it while laughing on the floor?
16:31-!-Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-201-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
16:32<Mchl>nah... it's covered in... a peach... i was eating
16:33<Prof_Frink>@seen orudge_naked
16:33<@DorpsGek>Prof_Frink: I have not seen orudge_naked.
16:33<Wuisch>oh yes... and #openttd was never the same again
16:34<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/15480 <-- 'b' key working also for water bridges aka aqueducts
16:35-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:35<@Bjarni>You: is there life on Mars?
16:35<@Bjarni>Eliza: Please go on.
16:35<@Bjarni>that's it
16:35<@Bjarni>we should keep sending probes to Mars
16:35<@Bjarni>we should go on doing so
16:35<Mchl>see
16:35<Mchl>she might be 30yrs old, yet still gives proper answers
16:35<@SmatZ>Eliza is stupid
16:35<Mchl>of course she is
16:36<@Bjarni>You: what is the meaning of life?
16:36<@Bjarni>Eliza: Does that question interest you?
16:36<@Bjarni>You: no
16:36<@Bjarni>Eliza: You are being a bit negative.
16:36<@SmatZ>like she doesn't remember previous sentence
16:36<murr4y>we all know, the answer is 42
16:36<Mchl>she's been programmed in 1966
16:36<Wuisch>why can't we send some cooler stuff to marz... like I don't know an acme anvil... then it would be like one of those cartoons where an anvil just falls on someones head... it will show the martians we have mastered comedy
16:37<Mchl>don;t expect her to do heuristics on what you say
16:37<Wuisch>and I ment to say mars... I in no way condone the use of inapropriate z's in my speech
16:38<@Bjarni>You: do you know the meaning of life?
16:38<@Bjarni>Eliza: Oh, i know the meaning of life.
16:38<@Bjarni>You: tell me the meaning of life
16:38<@Bjarni>Eliza: Can you elaborate on that?
16:38<@Bjarni>she is keeping secrets from us :(
16:38<Mchl>a woman
16:40<@Bjarni>You: are you a human?
16:40<@Bjarni>Eliza: Would you prefer if I were not a human?
16:40<@Bjarni>You: do you want to have sex?
16:40<@Bjarni>Eliza: Oh, i want to have sex.
16:40<@Bjarni>in that case I prefer a human :)
16:40<@SmatZ>hehe
16:41<Wuisch>but you don't have to cuddle with robots afterward
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>you sound like you tried already...
16:41*Mchl wonders if he should've pasted that link at all
16:42<@Bjarni>You: do you enjoy playing OpenTTD?
16:42<@Bjarni>Eliza: Oh, i enjoy playing openttd.
16:42<@Bjarni>yet another fan
16:43<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Recruit her for NoAI!
16:43-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
16:44<Mchl>I think it might not be the original implementation of Eliza
16:44<Mchl>I remember, that she liked to ask question, not answering them
16:44<Prof_Frink>Hmm, my implementation seems to be broken.
16:45<Boyinblue0>!download
16:45-!-Boyinblue0 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
16:45-!-Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37e82.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
16:45<Prof_Frink>1) My computer doesn't need to let me do anything
16:45<Mchl>yup... DorpsGek manages better
16:45<Prof_Frink>2) My name's not Dave
16:46-!-Tom0004_ [~Tom0004@92.5.143.215] has joined #openttd
16:47<@Bjarni>it seems to be broken
16:47<@Bjarni>I asked "are you a robot"
16:47<@Bjarni>it prints:
16:47<@Bjarni>You: I am answering your question truthfully.
16:47<@Bjarni>Eliza: How long have you been answering my question truthfully?
16:47<Mchl>a paranoid
16:49<Mchl>Eliza was programmed as a comical attempt to create a virtual psychiatrist
16:49<Mchl>then Parry was created... a virtual schizophreniac
16:49<Wuisch>who knew cats like pizza
16:50<Mchl>and both of them could chat together for hours :D
16:51<Mchl>http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc439.html
16:52-!-Tom0004_ [~Tom0004@92.5.143.215] has left #openttd []
16:53<Prof_Frink>And then there's Marv.
17:02-!-dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499EEE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:06<fjb>The canset guys are cheating. they allow only passenger cars in their push/pull trains.
17:07<@Bjarni>heh
17:07<@Bjarni>so?
17:07<@Bjarni>what else would you want to add?
17:07<planetmaker>hm... any wagon?
17:07<fjb>So nobody seen they are not turning around the whole train, only switching the sprites at the ends.
17:07<@Belugas>that's their set. they decide waht to put in there
17:08-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-165-98-32.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
17:08<fjb>Still it is cheating.
17:09<@Belugas>nope
17:09<@Belugas>it's a desing
17:09<@Belugas>don't try to make your dream their reality
17:09<@Belugas>and good nght
17:10-!-Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37e82.bb.sky.com] has quit []
17:11<svippy>o_O
17:11<svippy>How is that cheating?
17:11<svippy>I am not getting it at all.
17:11<svippy>And I think there is a good reason for only allowing passenger cars in their trains.
17:11<svippy>Maybe because it *is* a passenger train!
17:12<@Bjarni>in real life you can only use wagons that can carry the control signals from the steering car to the locomotive
17:12<svippy>:O My goodness, I think I just nailed it.
17:12<@Bjarni>usually only passenger wagons can do that
17:12<svippy>Well, that too.
17:12<@Bjarni>also they need to fit certain physical features too
17:12<fjb>It is far more complicated to make a train lokk going backward when you have different cars in it. You don't only have to switch the first and the last sprite of the train, you have to switch all the sprite in the train.
17:13<@Bjarni>so?
17:13<svippy>Your point is, fjb?
17:13<@Bjarni>how long can you make those trains anyway?
17:13<fjb>So it is easier to only allow passanger cars in a push pull train.
17:14<fjb>Mail cars are were not that uncommon in passenger trains.
17:14<@Bjarni>we are talking about push pull trains
17:14<@Bjarni>they are usually used for short distances
17:14<@Bjarni>mail cars are used for long distance
17:15<@Bjarni>having said that I have seen the exception to the rule
17:15-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F56B90.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
17:15<Pikka>!logs
17:15<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
17:15-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Write error: connection closed]
17:15<@Bjarni>the railroad added a mail car or something similar after the locomotive when the locomotive were pushing the cars
17:16-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd
17:16<@Bjarni>the safety restrictions about push pull trains applies to cars in front of the locomotive, but not behind it
17:16<@Bjarni>so you can add whatever you like after the locomotive (at least in real life)
17:17<@Bjarni>somebody might be upset if you transport dangerous stuff on a train with passengers though
17:17<svippy>I'm confused.
17:17<Touqen>See: ValueJet
17:17<svippy>Are they called railroads or railways?
17:17<planetmaker>the answer depends upon whom you ask :P
17:18<@Bjarni>svippy: it depends on if you are talking US English or real English
17:18<svippy>I thought so.
17:20<@Bjarni>svippy: of cause we all know the correct term is jernbane so why bother with anything else? :D
17:20<svippy>:O But isn't jernbane just "irontrack"?
17:21<@Bjarni>o_O
17:22<svippy>Hey, Bjarni, I don't know how good your Danish is, but in my experience "jern" is "iron" and "bane" is "track".
17:22<svippy>Hence "iron track".
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17:24<@Bjarni>last time I checked my Danish were pretty decent
17:25*Pikka points out to Bjarni that of the seven Class 1 carriers in the US and Canada, five are "railway"s while only one is a "railroad" ;)
17:25<@Bjarni>the same goes for knowledge about railroads in Denmark
17:26<fjb>If the rail is on your way, then it is a railway.
17:26<@Bjarni><svippy> Hey, Bjarni, I don't know how good your Danish is <-- I imagine it's better than yours :P
17:27<svippy>Really?
17:27<@Bjarni>yeah
17:27<svippy>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-wing_aircraft
17:27<svippy>Woo for avoiding "aeroplane" or "airplane".
17:27<@Bjarni>:)
17:28<svippy>That is the specific reason for its name.
17:28<svippy>There were heated debates on its talk page about which it should be.
17:29<@Bjarni>my English teacher once said it was US/British but British Airways used the American term
17:36-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-220-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
17:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13481 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: add 'B' keyboard shortcut to build aqueduct (planetmaker)
17:38<@Bjarni>lol.... just saw the result of a survey... engineers who will not switch out their windows client with linux replied on why not. 3,4% were concerned with the security in linux :D
17:38<svippy>Hm.
17:38<@SmatZ>hehe
17:38<svippy>Concerned.
17:38<svippy>How am I going to work if I get no viruses?
17:39<svippy>How can I live if my system has an almost 99% uptime?!
17:39<svippy>Where are the restarts?! That is not what I have come to know!
17:39<fjb>Every system is insecure if the operator doesn't know what he is doing.
17:40<svippy>Indeed.
17:40<svippy>Some systems' third parties are just more out to get them than others.
17:40<@Bjarni>I don't think this would be an issue
17:40<@Bjarni>as it should be taken care of by their system administrator
17:40<@Bjarni>this is computers for work
17:40<@Bjarni>not at home
17:40<fjb>Don't feel secure only because you are using Linux.
17:40<@Bjarni>hence they don't have to install it themselves
17:41<svippy>I don't fjb.
17:41<ben_goodger>my IT teacher once submitted a proof that went: "windows is perfect, therefore viruses just happen. windows is perfect and linux is not windows, therefore linux is not perfect, therefore it is worse at viruses"
17:41<@Bjarni><fjb> Don't feel secure only because you are using Linux. <--- nobody claimed that
17:41<@Bjarni>it's just in comparison with windows
17:42<svippy>ben_goodger, what was his argument for stating "Windows is perfect".
17:42<svippy>Have you seen its font anti-aliasing?!
17:42<ben_goodger>she didn't have one
17:42<svippy>Of course not.
17:42<svippy>CAUSE THERE IS NONE.
17:42<fjb>A well administrered Windows is more secure than a poorly administered Linux.
17:42<svippy>If Windows is perfect, why are they copying OS X?
17:42<svippy>True, fjb.
17:42<ben_goodger>fjb: yes, but trying to administer Windows well will drive someone to suicide long before Linux
17:42<svippy>But is cheaper to get a well administrated Linux than a Windows box.
17:42<@SmatZ>ben_goodger: good teachers you have
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's so weird... i just read this RFC about the bot conversation, and then i read svippy's conversation here, and they look exactly alike
17:42<svippy>Well, at least in most usecases I have read.
17:43<svippy>Eddi|zuHause, I work hard to fail the Turing test.
17:43<ben_goodger>SmatZ: tell me about it... our syllabus was written in 2000 so we had to put "not writeable" as a disadvantage of CDs (in 2006)
17:44<ben_goodger>I don't like lying to pass exams. it's one of the many reasons I have become a depressed cynical shell of a teenager
17:44<fjb>Depends who your administrator is. When you hae trained Windows people at hand Windows may be the cheaper and more secure way. It just depends.
17:44<@SmatZ>hehe
17:44<@Bjarni>speaking of security. Somebody made a proof of concept where he got safari for windows to download a file to the desktop without the user knowing it. Next time he started IE it would run the downloaded dll and start notepad
17:44<@Bjarni>naturally this is seen as a security issue
17:44<svippy>Indeed.
17:44<ben_goodger>ah yes
17:44<ben_goodger>apple refused to patch it, no?
17:44<svippy>Mixing Safari and IE was never a good idea.
17:45<svippy>Yeah, ben_goodger, because they want Windows users to suffer.
17:45<@Bjarni>Apple says that it's not entirely their fault because "why the fuck would IE execute a dll file just because it's on the desktop???"
17:45<Eddi|zuHause><Bjarni> they are usually used for short distances <- all modern long distance trains are push-pull now
17:45<svippy>I can imagine Steve Jobs stroking his cat right now.
17:45<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: what about DMUs?
17:45<@Bjarni><ben_goodger> apple refused to patch it, no? <-- they didn't say that but they didn't claim to try to fix it either
17:45<svippy>Bjarni: Because IE is made of fail?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>typical "asymmetric" vehicles there are dining cars and baggage wagons
17:46<ben_goodger>Bjarni: on /. --- "if safari downloads things to the desktop, it is because all user agents should do so, and apple are the only people with the wisdom, foresight and polo sweaters to implement it"
17:46<svippy> <@Bjarni> <ben_goodger> apple refused to patch it, no? <-- they didn't say that but they didn't claim to try to fix it either <-- They said they would fix it in an update, but they didn't consider it critical or a security issue.
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: especially those are push-pull ;)
17:46<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> they are usually used for short distances <- all modern long distance trains are push-pull now <-- they tend to be DMU/EMU based. Those aren't push pull
17:47<ben_goodger>well, it depends
17:47<@Bjarni>lol @ ben_goodger
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>and only ICEs are EMUs, all other long distance trains are engine-driven with a steering wagon at the end
17:47<ben_goodger>in britain we have HSTs which are push-pull, and from the 70s.... and 180s, 22*s, 158s, 390s which are DMU/EMUs from the 00s
17:48<ben_goodger>oh, we also have class 90s and 47s which are pull-only
17:48<ben_goodger>long-distance, I mean
17:49<ben_goodger>people appear to like DMUs mostly nowadays. maybe it's the acceleration or the screaming of the engines that attracts them to them, but I am not sure
17:49<@Bjarni><EddizuHause> [...], all other long distance trains are engine-driven with a steering wagon at the end <-- sounds stupid. Here steering cars aren't allowed to go faster than 140 km/h when they are in front for security issues
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>short distance trains are much more likely to be DMU/EMU
17:49<Sacro>http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/9325/naziwarmachinens3.jpg :o
17:50<ben_goodger>heheheh
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/galerie/kategorie/Deutschland~Wagen~IC-Steuerwagen.html
17:50<ben_goodger>it has been said that VW is the new german empire...
17:51-!-Tom0004 [~Tom@92.5.143.215] has joined #openttd
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>did you know that VW was founded by Hitler?
17:51<@Bjarni> <ben_goodger> people appear to like DMUs mostly nowadays. maybe it's the acceleration or the screaming of the engines that attracts them to them, but I am not sure <-- modern trains have problems with high force. Basically there is a limit to how much the tracks can survive from each axle so spreading the same amount of force on to more axles the impact on the tracks is way smaller and you can accelerate faster with less wear on th
17:51<@Bjarni>e tracks
17:51<ben_goodger>aha
17:52<ben_goodger>the thing is, the quiet carriage on the HST is right next to the "pull" loco, and it's quiet as anything other than the slam-doors
17:53<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: I did indeed know that...then again, the nazis did many great things that have nothing to do with killing
17:53<@Bjarni>you mean it's full of engine noise?
17:53<ben_goodger>no, it's silent
17:53<ben_goodger>DMUs are full of engine noise.
17:54<@Bjarni>generally I don't consider engine noise in a DMU as an issue
17:54<@Bjarni>the vibrations are though
17:54<ben_goodger>sorry, the carriage is as quiet as anything; besides the slam-doors, which are loud
17:54*fjb thinks what that good things may have been.
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>"Bpmbdzf 296-3" <- now that's a cool classification for a wagon ;)
17:55<ben_goodger>fjb: they appear to have pulled germany out of the worst recession in recent history and created large amounts of employment, one of the best motorway networks in the world and a wonderful car
17:55<@Bjarni>TEE had really noisy diesel engines. They were pretty well sound isolated from the passengers though
17:55-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-165-98-32.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
17:56<ben_goodger>obviously the holocaust was utterly, completely unforgivable, but I don't think we should associate volkswagen with it just because they were started by the same government
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, obviously the motorway network was majorly driven as a war-infrastructure-preparation
17:56<ben_goodger>true
17:57<ben_goodger>hans reiser is a murdering bastard, but many people still use his filesystem for its independent merit
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>and the VW was used as a means to gather money for these preparations
17:57<fjb>ben_goodger: They spend far more money then they had. Germany was bankrupt within a few years.
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>ben_goodger: was he actually convicted?
17:57<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause: for first-degree murder, yes
17:58<ben_goodger>he's planning to have it reduced to second-degree by locating her
17:58<ln>fjb: than
17:58<fjb>The motorway network was planed long before the Nazis took the country over. And it is a myth that they were build to prepere the war.
17:58<fjb>ln: thanks.
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: it's less myth than you think, e.g. a long straight stripe of Autobahn near Dessau was specially prepared without middle-stripe to be used as emergency landing and starting stripe for planes
18:00<fjb>Henry Ford was a big fan of Hitler. He trained some of the VW engineers.
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>well, ford did have car factories in germany since the 1920's
18:01<ben_goodger>good for them. he was a good businessman
18:01<@Bjarni><fjb> ben_goodger: They spend far more money then they had. Germany was bankrupt within a few years. <--- actually Germany arrested some businessmen because they tried to make personal profit on decreasing the economy in Germany. Today we can't say either way if it's true or not but we can say that it's likely not just due to one thing that they ended up having money problems
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>Ford Germany recently celebrated 75 years
18:01<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Preparing motoways as emergency landing stripes is quite cmmon around the world. Especially peacefull countriss like Swizerland do this.
18:02<ben_goodger>Bjarni: I think it's likely that the money problems occurred as a result of being continually attacked by multiple countries simultaneously over six years...though that may be completely the wrong time period
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>well, they "unbuilt" that preparation on this segment meanwhile ;)
18:02<ben_goodger>switzerland aren't peaceful
18:03<svippy>Really?
18:03<ben_goodger>they're neutral, not pacifists
18:03<ben_goodger>every man over 25 is in the swiss national militia and keeps a loaded rifle in his home
18:03<ben_goodger>...according to a book I have
18:03<fjb>ben_goodger: Germany was bankrupt before the war started.
18:03<svippy>When was the last time I heard of something violent happening in Switzerland was... NEVER!
18:03<@Bjarni>Switzerland once attacked Liechtenstein
18:03<ben_goodger>fjb: ah...but less bankrupt than in the 20s?
18:03<@Bjarni>and it was actually not long ago
18:03<svippy>Finally.
18:03<svippy>Something violent in Swiss history.
18:03<@Bjarni>the army was on training and got lost
18:03<ben_goodger>heh
18:04<ben_goodger>I reckon they should annex andorra
18:04<svippy>I guess that's what happens when your maps have to be in German, French and Italian.
18:04<@Bjarni>when they figured out where they had ended up they were not in Switzerland anymore. Moving in with an army without telling anybody first usually means war
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>svippy: switzerland shot down several german (and also british) planes during WWII that entered swiss air space (despite warings)
18:04<@Bjarni>they quickly returned though
18:04<ben_goodger>see, neutral, not pacifists
18:04<ben_goodger>like sweden.
18:05<svippy>Indeed.
18:05<fjb>ben_goodger: germany had economical problems in the 20s, like most other countries did. But it was not bankrupt. The Nazis made it bankrupt with in a few years.
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18:05<ben_goodger>fjb: very well...but you should write to the high school history book writers here, and have them corrected in that case
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: germany's economy of the late '20s was built on american credits, the economy got in huge trouble when the american banks pulled back their fundings because of the crisis in the '30s
18:06<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: I don't think that's possible
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>this was actually the basis of the rising of the nazi party
18:07<ben_goodger>indeed. hyperinflation leads to the loss of democracy
18:07<+glx><@Bjarni> Apple says that it's not entirely their fault because "why the fuck would IE execute a dll file just because it's on the desktop???" <-- I have read something about that, it will just spam the desktop
18:07<@Bjarni>you see some countries arrest people if they start arguing if anything about the nazis might be incorrect
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>no, the hyperinflation was long before that
18:07<fjb>Still Swizerland did not start a war after building motorways that can be turned into emergency landing stripes.
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18:07<@Bjarni>fjb: maybe they are still preparing
18:07<@Bjarni>:P
18:07<ben_goodger>heh
18:08<ben_goodger>still, no matter what the history of various countries, we're all OK now, hopefully
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>the hyperinflation was the cause of the american funding
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>which created economic rising and political stability for about 5 years
18:08<fjb>What will they conquer? Lichtenstein?
18:09<@Bjarni>France
18:09<@Bjarni>it's a sure win
18:09<fjb>I doubt...
18:09<ben_goodger>andorra, as I said
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: switzerland is not allowed to start a war, because of the neutrality
18:09<fjb>No country is allowed to start a war.
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>apparently the US are ;)
18:09<fjb>Some just don't care.
18:10<ben_goodger>indeed
18:10<fjb>The Us are the don't care case.
18:10<ben_goodger>fjb: I think they do now, though
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the swiss neutrality is an international "law" since the peace of westphalia (1648)
18:10<@Bjarni>are you thinking of Iraq?
18:10<ben_goodger>with gas rising above $4/gal...
18:11<ben_goodger>of course, they forget that europeans typically pay more than $10
18:11<@Bjarni>they attacked Iraq due to false information from Israeli intelligence
18:11-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1D787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>i can never compare these "gal" prices, what's that in liter?
18:11<ben_goodger>about 50c, I think
18:11<fjb>Bjarni: I doubt that. They planed to get the Oil under their control.
18:11<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: google "1 gal in l"
18:11<@Bjarni>if you want cheap petrol then go to Panama
18:12<Touqen>1 gal is approximately 3 liters
18:12<ben_goodger>54 cents
18:12<svippy>Google says: 4 (U.S. dollars per US gallon) = 0.679498559 Euros per litre
18:12<ben_goodger>54 cents a litre
18:12<ben_goodger>svippy: interesting... it also says "4 (U.S. dollars / gal) = 0.565800675 Euros / litre"
18:13<svippy>That's because you are doing it wrong.
18:13<+glx>that's cheap
18:13<ben_goodger>ah, it seems to be using imperial gallons for some reason
18:13<ben_goodger>ok, 68 cents per litre
18:13<svippy>(4 U.S. dollars) per US gallon = 1.05668821 U.S. dollars per litre
18:13<ben_goodger>and in the UK it's 1.46 euros
18:13<@SmatZ>google "3 usd / gal in euro / l"
18:13<svippy>gal is imperial gallon, gallon is US gallon.
18:14*SmatZ loves google calc :)
18:14<svippy>You get wrong result, SmatZ.
18:14<svippy>As I just pointed out.
18:14<@SmatZ>relly?
18:14<@SmatZ>sorry
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>1,50 (€ / l) = 8,8300408 US$ per US gallon <- that's what they cost around here
18:14<@Bjarni><fjb> Bjarni: I doubt that. They planed to get the Oil under their control. <-- that something critics claimed afterwards. They acted on information from Israel that Iraq should have weapons of mass destruction and plans on using them against US interests. While the news talked about the new war in Iraq Israel started their own offensive against Palestine and the media didn't really talk about it
18:14<ben_goodger>1,50? you have my pity....
18:14<svippy>Pity?
18:14<ben_goodger>sympathy?
18:15<svippy>We don't need your pity.
18:15<svippy>We are Europeans.
18:15<svippy>We are fucking rich.
18:15<@SmatZ>:-D
18:15<+glx>we need less taxes ;)
18:15<ben_goodger>I'm european too
18:15<@Bjarni>svippy: stop lying
18:15<ben_goodger>in fact, I'm probably richer
18:15<svippy>Hey, Bjarni, we live in the country that pays most taxes.
18:15<svippy>And yet, I feel like I can afford it all.
18:15<ben_goodger>svippy: where are you?
18:15<svippy>Denmark.
18:15<ben_goodger>ah
18:16<ben_goodger>of course, diesel is up around 1.65 euro here
18:16<ben_goodger>it's bloody stupid. diesel should cost _less_ than gasoline
18:16<svippy>Why?
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, 1,50 is relative, it tends to jump up and down about 10 ct during each week
18:17<svippy>Diesel is fucking horrible to environment.
18:17<ben_goodger>bollocks it is
18:17<+glx>and there's more demand for it
18:17<@Bjarni><svippy> Hey, Bjarni, we live in the country that pays most taxes. <-- the taxes are so high that many people resort to cheat on taxes because it's simply not possible to get the work done with the current taxes
18:17<svippy>Yeah, cheaters.
18:17<svippy>Suckers.
18:17<svippy>Traitors.
18:18<@Bjarni>I mean you need a new door. You pay somebody to install it. 20% of the bill is taxes. The company pays income taxes and the guy who did the work needs to get his paycheck too where he pays say 60%
18:18<svippy>And?
18:19<svippy>We get some great services in this country.
18:19<@Bjarni>combine those costs and you will see how many doors you donated to the state when you just needed one door yourself
18:19<svippy>I know people keep saying there are problems.
18:19<svippy>But that is because Denmark is a whiner nation.
18:19<@Bjarni>no
18:19<svippy>We are.
18:19<@Bjarni>it's because service actually is poor
18:19<Mchl>we are
18:19<@Bjarni>because money is wasted
18:20<svippy>Denmark has some of the most efficient health care system in the world.
18:20<@Bjarni>the system is very inefficient
18:20<svippy>According to several reports.
18:20<svippy>It is not perfect.
18:20<svippy>And it has lacks in certain areas that need being addressed.
18:20<@Bjarni>yet the risk of dying from say cancer is far greater than if you get cancer in say Sweden or Norway
18:20<svippy>Yeah, because the risk of dying of boredom in Norway and Sweden overtakes that stat.
18:21<@Bjarni>that's a fucked up argument
18:21<@SmatZ>:-D
18:21<svippy>You are realising I am not really taking this discussion *that* seriously?
18:21*Bjarni notice that svippy wants to live on social welfare
18:21<svippy>Not really.
18:23<@Bjarni>you use arguments like you want to do that
18:23<svippy>I wonder what political view you have, Bjarni.
18:23<svippy>Well, maybe because I do.
18:23<svippy>Because I consider myself a socialist.
18:23<@SmatZ>http://www.politicalcompass.org/test Bjarni svippy take a test, and tell the results :)
18:23<svippy>But often I am not interested in what my opinion is.
18:24<svippy>I am often near Stalin, SmatZ.
18:24<svippy>Or is it Gandhi?
18:24<@Bjarni>:D
18:24<svippy>Damn passive aggressive.
18:24<@SmatZ>svippy: so am I
18:24<@Bjarni>you can't tell the difference?
18:24<svippy>No, I can't remember.
18:24<svippy>It may be Stalin.
18:25<svippy>Despite the fact that I disagree with a lot of his ways.
18:25<Wolf01>'night
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18:25<Wuisch>darnit you need an mba to get that junction building
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18:26<@Bjarni>there is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment. <-- err... what kind of question is that?
18:26<svippy>They are not questions.
18:26<svippy>They are statements.
18:26*Sacro plays Toilet Tycoon
18:26<svippy>You describe whether you agree or disagree with them.
18:27<@SmatZ>:-x
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18:27<@Bjarni>that's not what I meant
18:27<@Bjarni>and you know that
18:27<svippy>So, Sacro, how big is your Toilet Empire?
18:27<fjb>Wuisch: You need YAPP.
18:27<Sacro>svippy: not installed it yet
18:27<svippy>Yeah, Sacro, you need YAPP too.
18:27<Sacro>svippy: i have yapp
18:27<Wuisch>How does yapp make it easier?
18:27-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:27<@Bjarni>Sacro: BBC once made a show where they tried to find the worst toilet in Britain... I bet you watched all of it
18:27<@SmatZ>Bjarni: answer if you agree/disagree with that statement
18:27<svippy>So the excrement can find it way doing into the toilet, Sacro.
18:27<Sacro>Bjarni: nope
18:27<Sacro>svippy: several peices at once?
18:27<@Bjarni>I know what to do
18:28<svippy>Yeah, it has pbs.
18:28<@Bjarni>but I wonder about the statement itself
18:28<@Bjarni>I find it an odd statement
18:28<svippy>With YAPP, you can have several people use a toilet at once.
18:28<ben_goodger>one designed to test your political stance on a two-dimensional scale of authoritarianism/libertarianism and communism/capitalism.
18:28<ben_goodger>see, I did that from memory
18:28<ben_goodger>I have a maths exam, so I'm going to bed. good night, europe
18:28<ben_goodger>Recht und Freiheit!
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18:29<Tom0004>YAPP is another patch that as failed to make trunk, if i'm wrong then one of the devs please say
18:29<Wuisch>But why is it better?
18:30<svippy>Cause it will get you home.
18:30<fjb>YAPP is still work in progress, not ready for trunk yet.
18:31<Tom0004>look at all the PBS patches for OTTD they all failed at some jump if not too, i just feel this will follow the same road as the last ones
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18:33<fjb>Tom0004: Looks like you know more than the rest of us.
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18:35<@SmatZ>"all the PBS patches" ?
18:35<Tom0004>well, i'm just going on the past, i don't see any DEVs jumping to the defence of YAPP
18:35<@Rubidium>SmatZ: yes, all 2
18:35<@SmatZ>:-)
18:36-!-Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1212.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
18:36<@Rubidium>someone thinking otherwise, please show the two that are not YAPP
18:37<@SmatZ>well, the one that was in OTTD and another one at tt-forums
18:37-!-sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has joined #openttd
18:40<@SmatZ>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=14154 this one
18:41<Tom0004>thats been 3, MiniIN patch, Patch by wolfc, amd YAPP
18:41<Tom0004>none have made offical trunk, and yet no one is jumping to defende YAPP
18:41<@SmatZ>hmm no it is a different patch (that link)
18:42<@SmatZ>PBS was in official trunk
18:43<@SmatZ>@openttd commit 2516
18:43<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by hackykid :: r2516 /trunk (30 files in 5 dirs) (2005-07-04 14:58:55 UTC)
18:43<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: - Feature: [pbs] Implement path-based-signalling. This allows multiple trains within the same signal block, provided their paths dont intersect. For this the block must have all exit and entry signals be pbs signals. Place these by ctrl-clicking 4 times on a normal signal.
18:43<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: - Feature: [pbs] Implement autoplacement of pbs blocks, when a block has an entry and an exit pbs signal, covert the entire block to pbs. Can be turned off in the patch settings.
18:43<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: - Feature: [pbs] Allow showing of reserved status by making the tracks darker, when the pbs debug level is at least 1.
18:44<@SmatZ>@openttd commit 3472
18:44<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by Darkvater :: r3472 /trunk (52 files in 5 dirs) (2006-01-29 18:57:26 UTC)
18:44<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: - [PBS] Remove from trunk. Anyone interested can still find it in branch/pbs. This reverts revisions r3158, r3140, r3075, r2977, r2674, r2625, r2621, r2529, r2528, r2525, r2524, r2519, r2517, r2516, r2507, r2499. (in conjunction with Tron)
18:44<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: - The only change is that the nsignalsw.grf file is kept and that existing nightlies with PBS signals get those signals converted to combo-signals.
18:44<@Bjarni>ok I'm done with that political compass thingie
18:45<@Bjarni>and the result is clear
18:45<@Bjarni>I discard the test as a reliable indicator
18:45<@SmatZ>:-)
18:45<@SmatZ>why?
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>Your political compass
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>Economic Left/Right: -1.75
18:45<Eddi|zuHause> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'm almost a ghandi
18:46<@SmatZ>hehe
18:46<@Bjarni><SmatZ> why? <-- it declared me a communist
18:46<@Bjarni>which is pretty far from the truth
18:47<@Bjarni>I mean
18:47<@Bjarni>we all know it didn't work
18:47-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>"communism" != "real existing socialism"
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18:47<@Bjarni>but I was about to discard it even before I saw the result
18:48<@SmatZ>lol
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18:48*fjb wonders if Bjarni discards mirrors too...
18:48<@Bjarni>the statements were designed so I could see that if I claimed to agree with them then they presumed that I agree with something else but if I disagreed with them then I would answer the question incorrectly
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18:49<@Bjarni>a test can't be better than the people who made it
18:50<@Bjarni>I once complained about an IQ test because the correct answers were incorrect and they had to admit that I was right
18:51<fjb>Superbjarni
18:51<@Bjarni>:)
18:51<@Bjarni>actually I think politics are too complex for left-right talk
18:52<@Bjarni>here it's in 2D but still it's made somewhat simple
18:52<@Bjarni>way to simple compared to how complex it really is
18:52<@Bjarni>besides it assumes a lot of stuff
18:53<@SmatZ>Economic Left/Right: -7.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21
18:53<@Bjarni>like liberalism and free marked/great economy are linked together
18:53<@Bjarni>but how about looking at China
18:53<@Bjarni>it's a one party system what you can't disagree with
18:53<@Bjarni>yet they have great growth
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>one thing that political compass told me: i could almost never become a political leader, they all are on the other side...
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18:54<@Bjarni>heh
18:55<@Bjarni>I can't be a politician because politics aren't about political views but who knows who
18:55<@Bjarni>and who is best at surviving backstabbing
18:56<fjb>I can't be a politician, I'm too honest.
18:56<@Bjarni>oh and that too
18:56<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: where did you read that?
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>did you look at the picture at the bottom?
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>all the world's leaders are on the authoritarian side
18:57<@Bjarni>on the night before the last election TV had live debate with all the parties. The TV station then said that they learned that only one party didn't change political views in the time between the date for the election was set and the election
18:57<@SmatZ>aha :)
18:57<@Bjarni>everybody else read opinion polls
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18:59<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: are you saying that you are an anarchist?
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>no, i would not go that far ;)
19:00<@Bjarni>but are you all below the middle?
19:00<@SmatZ>[00:45:53] <Eddi|zuHause> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
19:01<@SmatZ>it means bellow the middle
19:01<@SmatZ>3/10
19:01<@SmatZ>*below
19:02<@Bjarni><SmatZ> Economic Left/Right: -7.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21 <-- looks like an anarchistic communist
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19:02<@SmatZ>1 Euro / l = 5.88972219 U.S. dollars / US gallon
19:03<@SmatZ>I don't think I was anarchist or communist
19:03<@SmatZ>I am just liberal
19:03<@Bjarni>-7.75 looks pretty red to me
19:03<@SmatZ>and for control of internatinal companies and monopols
19:04<@SmatZ>yeah more than I expected
19:04<@SmatZ>what were your results?
19:04<@Bjarni>Economic Left/Right: -3.88
19:04<@Bjarni>Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.18
19:04<@SmatZ>*gevernment control...
19:04<@Bjarni>I'm not sure that I agree with them though
19:05<@SmatZ>huh Authoritarian
19:05*SmatZ runs
19:05<@SmatZ>:-)
19:05<@SmatZ>religious people are sure not liberal, so...
19:06<@Bjarni>I wouldn't consider myself strongly religious if that is what you mean
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19:06<@SmatZ>there were many questions about sex, abortins, homosexuals, ...
19:07<@Bjarni>I consider that morale rather than religious issues
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19:08<@Bjarni>like being against homosexual child adoption for the sake of the child don't need to have anything to do with religion
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19:09<@SmatZ>I am liberal in means "nobody should care what you do unless you limit others"
19:10<@SmatZ>I don't think it is any better for children to grow in children's home
19:11<@Bjarni>maybe that's because you compare to what you see in Eastern Europe
19:11<Wuisch>is there away to make the one way signals along an entire track easily?
19:11<@SmatZ>do you think you have worse homosexuals than we?
19:11<@SmatZ>Wuisch: ctrl + drag
19:12<Wuisch>won't that make normal signals ?
19:12<@Bjarni><SmatZ> do you think you have worse homosexuals than we? <-- I meant children's homes ;)
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19:12<Eddi|zuHause>Wuisch: no, it copies the first signal if it already exists
19:13<@SmatZ>Bjarni: I would like to see your children's homes then
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19:13<Wuisch>ahhh right thanks :)
19:13<@SmatZ>and statistics about criminality of youths who grew there
19:13<@SmatZ>and how many people take care about children there
19:13<@SmatZ>and how much "love" and "home" feelings they have
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>i think keeping children in groups helps with building social contacts
19:14<@Bjarni>statistics aren't good but that's mainly because it's near impossible to remove children from bad parents so they do that when the police catches a 10 year old for the 10th time in a stolen car
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>sure, there is no substitute to "home" and "parents"
19:14<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: you don't have to grow in children's home to be in group with other children :-)
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>it's all a matter of balance
19:15<@SmatZ>I think it is better to have family and loving parents, even when they are homosexual
19:16<@SmatZ>than to have bad parents, like Bjarni mentioned...
19:16<@Bjarni>I don't think any "normal" children end up in children's homes here
19:16<@Bjarni>I mean not for long
19:16<@SmatZ>or than to grow in children's house
19:16<@SmatZ>Bjarni: what about children whose mother gave up the child?
19:16<@SmatZ>because she was young
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19:16<@SmatZ>didn't have money
19:16<@SmatZ>etc
19:17<@Bjarni><SmatZ> Bjarni: what about children whose mother gave up the child? <-- we don't really have those
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>those should go into psychological treatement
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>the mothers i mean
19:18<@Bjarni>as svippy mentioned we have the highest tax in the world so there is tax money for poor single mothers
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>and convinced to keep the child
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>children should be kept with the biological parents as much as possible
19:19<@SmatZ>Bjarni: maybe you should try living here, maybe you would find Czech republic is nice, but of course you have to get used to it :)
19:19<@SmatZ>I am happy I live here
19:19<@Bjarni>to be honest I don't know Czech conditions very well
19:20<@Bjarni>but I think they are far better than Romania and Bulgaria
19:21<@Bjarni><SmatZ> Bjarni: maybe you should try living here <-- I wouldn't be able to talk to anybody :s
19:22<fjb>Bjarni: Sometimes even we don't understand you.
19:22<@Bjarni>:P
19:22<@SmatZ>it takes time to learn the language, you can use English at big cities, but I wouldn't bet on it :)
19:24<@Bjarni>I'm working together with a Polish at uni at the moment. He has been here for half a year and the other day he said that he has yet to find somebody who can't/won't speak English
19:24*Sacro won't speak english
19:25<@SmatZ>Bjarni: well, if you knew Russian, you could speak with most older people, too
19:25<@SmatZ>and English with younger
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19:31<@Bjarni>Russian can't be that tricky
19:31<@Bjarni>you just add "ski" at the end of all words
19:31<@Bjarni>:P
19:31<@SmatZ>hehe
19:33<Sacro>thanksie veryski muchski budski
19:33<@Bjarni>Yuri might have something to say to me about such a statement though >_<
19:33<Sacro>and that's bulgarian
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19:35<@Bjarni>Bulgarian?
19:35<@Bjarni>for all I know it could mean "die you son of a bitch"
19:36<@SmatZ>http://translate.google.com/translate_t?sl=en&tl=bg :-)
19:36<@Bjarni>some English writer got her book translated to Danish and she saw it and looked at it. She then complained to the translator because the last page had in big types "SLUT"
19:36<@Bjarni>she didn't want words like that in her book
19:36<@Bjarni>but it actually means "the end"
19:37<@SmatZ>:-D
19:38*Sacro loves the London Underground Limited
19:38<@Bjarni>that's naturally
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19:38<@Bjarni>you are pretty limited yourself
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19:42<@SmatZ>any 8051 guru?
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19:43<@Bjarni>considering what else you can get in here I guess you might ask for me
19:44<@SmatZ>:-)
19:45<@SmatZ>there are data, bdata, idata, pdata, xdata and code memory types for Keil Cx51 compiler
19:45<@SmatZ>why so much?
19:45<@Bjarni>data is the internal memory
19:45<@Bjarni>xdata is external memory (slower)
19:45<@SmatZ>I understand there is bit memory, external memory, code (ROM) memory and data memory...
19:45<@Bjarni>ok so far so good :)
19:46<@SmatZ>well, what is pdata then?
19:46<@Bjarni>that's basically it. It tells where in the hardware you want to store something
19:47<@Bjarni>or read
19:47<@SmatZ>or are there any memory types that include external memory switching?
19:48<@SmatZ>I would understand 4, maybe 5 memory types... but I fail to understand what idata/pdata can be :)
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