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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-12

---Logopened Thu Jun 12 00:00:42 2008
---Daychanged Thu Jun 12 2008
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02:17<Ammler>good morning OTTD
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02:41<@peter1138>is it?
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02:45<TiberiusTeng>good afternoon OTTD
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02:46<TiberiusTeng>my localtime is +7 hours related to peter1138, +6 hours to Ammler :p
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02:57<Ammler>interesting, (any idea, how they did it?)
03:00<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: can you read that? what is that page about?
03:00<TiberiusTeng>OpenTTD Chinese Forum
03:01<TiberiusTeng>in simplified Chinese though ... yes, I can read that.
03:01<Ammler>that forum reached to spam on ottd servers.
03:01<Ammler>I didn't find something on the coop logs, yet.
03:02<TiberiusTeng>ahh ... spamming's how they did things
03:03<TiberiusTeng>some people in China just DDoS'ed one of the largest gaming forum in Taiwan a few weeks ago
03:03<TiberiusTeng>only because they refused to publish ad's for some WoW private servers
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03:04<Ammler>That chinese forum doesn't sell something?
03:05<TiberiusTeng>it's just like tt-forums
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03:06<Ammler>So it is possible to "just" send the chat udp packets and a server does show them?
03:07<Ammler>no need to be a client?
03:10<TiberiusTeng>I'm not sure, not familiar with networking part of source code
03:10<TiberiusTeng>seem they did many patches as well ... (but duplicated some work on tt-forums :(
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03:13<Ammler>(like stealing the credits?)
03:14<TiberiusTeng>I don't know if they stealed patches or patching the code on their own.
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03:16<TiberiusTeng>they do link to tt-forums related threads while discussing ...
03:16<planetmaker>good morning all
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03:16<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: anything about "hacking" foreign servers :-)
03:17<Ammler>hey planetmaker
03:18<planetmaker>[09:16] <TiberiusTeng> they do link to tt-forums related threads while discussing ... <-- too bad.
03:19<Ammler>planetmaker: if you are working on the sign, a move sign fucntion would be nice... :-)
03:19<planetmaker>"move sign" not "remove sign"?
03:19<planetmaker>hehe :). But I'm a dumb patch updater only :P
03:19<Ammler>the remove is in trunk long time
03:20<TiberiusTeng>planetmaker, "why don't they join tt-forums discussion" ?
03:20<planetmaker>Didn't work with r13480.
03:20<planetmaker>at least not ctrl+click
03:20<planetmaker>did test beforehand.
03:20<planetmaker>TiberiusTeng: exactly that's my question and what I wonder about.
03:21<Ammler>(lack of english, most time, like the german forums)
03:21<planetmaker>^ that's the only explanation I see, too
03:21<TiberiusTeng>I think's the language problem
03:21<planetmaker>Ammler: how does a quick "remove sign" work then in trunk?
03:21<TiberiusTeng>there's not much people in Taiwan can read/write English actually
03:21<TiberiusTeng>(and you may already feel my English's not good. :D)
03:22<Ammler>planetmaker: I meant the button
03:22<planetmaker>hehe. If you once read some manuals to technical appliances, the lack of English language proficiency becomes obvious :P
03:22<planetmaker>TiberiusTeng: yours is fine :)
03:23<TiberiusTeng>programming resource's all in English, I don't have choice but force myself to learn it :p
03:23<planetmaker>Ammler: yeah, but the button is a slow two-click process. Ctrl-Click is nice and easy :). GUI vs. keyboard short-cut.
03:24<planetmaker>Same with signal GUI and Ctrl+signal cycle
03:24<TiberiusTeng>Ammler, I think it's not outside-spammable
03:24<planetmaker>(same as)
03:24<Ammler>ctrl is used way too less in ottd :-P
03:24<TiberiusTeng>maybe he was joining as spectator then send those messages
03:24<planetmaker>^ hehe. exactly :)
03:25<TiberiusTeng>but don't you feel that Ctrl's very hard do 'document' well?
03:25<Ammler>yeah, and used chinese chars
03:25<Ammler>that's why he had no nick.
03:25<TiberiusTeng>in a way it feels like ioctl() in Unix kernels ...
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03:26<TiberiusTeng>maybe he didn't aware that many OTTD players lack a font setting that can display Chinese
03:27<Ammler>planetmaker: I think about 4 arrows (<X>) at the GUI
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03:27<planetmaker>indeed a nice idea :)
03:28<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: strange thing is, dih had the spam at january 19.
03:28<Ammler>and the one in the tt-forums at june 6.
03:28<Ammler>and the msg was the same.
03:28<planetmaker>script kiddie
03:29<TiberiusTeng>yeah, OTTD already can do some network scripting
03:29<Ammler>would be easy to make a alias for that msg.
03:30<TiberiusTeng>maybe I should register an account on that forum and write a post about this matter.
03:32<Ammler>planetmaker: moste time you would like to move the sign only 1-2 tiles.
03:32<planetmaker>yeah. I know from my own experience. E.g. when voting or plan building on the PS :)
03:32<Ammler>yeah, exactly
03:33<Ammler>or if you need to point to a signal or other error
03:35<Ammler>hehe, and if you are on that, you could use same function for the station signs :-P
03:36<planetmaker>hehe :)
03:37<planetmaker>Also nice idea, though I'm not entirely sure we want that there.
03:38<planetmaker>Currently - IIRC - they're placed in the centre(?) of the initially built station, but are moved, if the centre tile gets removed
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03:38<planetmaker>or something like that
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03:39<TiberiusTeng>done. looking forward for replies ......
03:40<planetmaker>he. I guess it's up to you to wait for replies and be our router - so to say
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03:44<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: something else, I already mentioned in the thread about, you should create your own thread about the patch pack, it is quite hidden where it is now...
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03:45<TiberiusTeng>ahh, that ching
03:45<TiberiusTeng> /thing/
03:46<planetmaker>^^ I support that notion
03:46<TiberiusTeng>actually I'm not really want to 'take over' Roest's work, and not sure if ignoring following 'support requests' is good, so ...
03:47<Ammler>I miss a patch option for the middle stop, else it looks really nice.
03:47<TiberiusTeng>well, then just make it a new thread and see how thing goes?
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03:47<TiberiusTeng>that's on my TODO list for sure, personally I wish it made the way into trunk
03:47<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: roest isn't the only one with patch packs
03:47<Ammler>there was many before
03:48<Ammler>and will be many after
03:48<TiberiusTeng>but then someone asked about per-station settings, and it is not an easy task ...
03:48<TiberiusTeng>for sure :)
03:48<TiberiusTeng>will editing the first post bump the thread to top ?
03:49<Ammler>that's why you see post like "updated, see 1. post" :-)
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03:50<planetmaker>IMO it's not a big shame to issue a patch pack and kind let it decay after some time.
03:51<planetmaker>It's quite impossible to maintain all (initially incorporated) patches for longer times
03:51<planetmaker>I mean, what I'm doing with wwottdgd is sort-of quite the same...
03:51<planetmaker>He, and with your updates you made quite a few things easier for me :)
03:52<planetmaker>the difference is the aim of the patch pack only.
03:53<planetmaker> <-- Ammler, you may know what kind of roads those dirt roads are. I'm curious
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03:55<Ammler>us outside roads
03:55<Ammler>not outside early stage
03:55<planetmaker>they're nice. are they in the grf pack?
03:55<TiberiusTeng>for things not in trunk, patches are very easy to crash into other
03:56<planetmaker>TiberiusTeng: hehe. Yes.
03:56<TiberiusTeng>like, while updating some window-class tables, command-tables
03:56<Ammler>planetmaker: yeah, long time.
03:56<TiberiusTeng>I wonder if there's a better way to handle this kind of diff :Q
03:56<planetmaker>Ammler: I wondered because I've never seen them before in any of our games.
03:56<planetmaker>TiberiusTeng: I guess quite difficult.
03:56<Ammler>because we do not play in early years.
03:57<planetmaker>Ah, so they're only around in early years? Hm... a pity
03:57<TiberiusTeng>no upper context lines in unified diff, etc ...
03:57<planetmaker>TiberiusTeng: for that reason, e.g. I made myself a combined patch of infrastructure sharing and close airports as they always clash
03:57<Ammler>hehe, maybe there is a parameter to have them instantly
03:57<TiberiusTeng>but I guess the patch program won't like this
03:58<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: do you work with git?
03:58<Ammler>your windows binary shows a strange rev.
03:58<planetmaker>TiberiusTeng: I guess that's not the big problem. The big problem would be that it's very easily ambigeous and you'll more often have broken patches
03:58<planetmaker>he is :)
03:59<TiberiusTeng>I work with Mercurial
03:59<TiberiusTeng>it's a joy to see OpenTTD have a mercurial repository, and it's synchronized with SVN ! :D
03:59<TiberiusTeng>made my life much more easier
04:00<TiberiusTeng>git was a headache to setup in Windows environment
04:00<Ammler>Suggstion for rev: use SVN rev and maybe a suffix like -tpp (tiberisus patch pack)
04:01<Ammler>would make it easier, if you like to use it in MP mode.
04:01<TiberiusTeng>will do it in next version. (it's now generated by a script in OTTD source)
04:02<Ammler>didn't test it self, just read some guys complained about in german forums.
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04:04<Ammler>they needed to join with console parameter -n
04:05<Ammler>but the positive thing is, it looks like working in MP (no desyncs) :-)
04:05<TiberiusTeng>playing online with other specified version(s) ?
04:05<TiberiusTeng>I think it's impossible to do this :Q
04:05<TiberiusTeng>that's a really good news for me, and those patch authors :)
04:06<Ammler>the patch itself should be a SVN from trunk (for BOTTD)
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04:06<Ammler>and builds should always show the same rev as the SVN patch :-)
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04:08<TiberiusTeng>ok :)
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04:21<planetmaker>[10:00] <Ammler> Suggstion for rev: use SVN rev and maybe a suffix like -tpp (tiberisus patch pack) <-- for wwottdgd I made myself a diff which attaches wwottdgd to the so that I won't forget and don't mind a different call to ./configure
04:21<Ammler>hmm, why not edit
04:21<planetmaker>nars roads: they have a patch option - and a very nice readme to explain things. He, something for the next psg
04:22<planetmaker>Ammler: that's what the diff does :)
04:22<planetmaker>it's a patch for
04:22<Ammler>ah, missread :P
04:22<planetmaker>wasn't clear there, I guess :)
04:22<Wuisch>What is wwottdgd? WorldWideOnlineTransportTycoonDeluxeGooD?
04:23<planetmaker>world wide OpenTTD gaming day.
04:23<@peter1138>does it need a special day?
04:23<planetmaker>peter1138: to play with 55 clients in one game: yes :)
04:23<planetmaker>you need more admins than usual
04:24<@peter1138>pah, where's the 16 company patch?
04:24<Ammler>yeah, that one wasn't long alive.
04:24<planetmaker>it's still around somewhere, but IMO not needed for that...
04:24<planetmaker>... and probably breaks many things
04:24<@peter1138>it is when you have subsidiaries too ;)
04:24<@peter1138>planetmaker: not when it's done properly
04:25<planetmaker>peter1138: but that needs testing :). We'll see how the patch pack works. If we do it right (I hope so), we're off with very little admin tasks
04:26<@peter1138>does it include pbs?
04:26<planetmaker>peter1138: no :S
04:26<planetmaker>Actually it is heavily incompatible with infrastructure sharing
04:26<planetmaker>for a reason I couldn't figure out. But the title screen crashes to the OS without notice
04:26<Ammler>peter1138: that depense on trunk :P
04:27<planetmaker>^ and that :)
04:27<planetmaker>quote from the wiki page: " PBS 3 50% will only be included over trunk"
04:28<planetmaker>(I know, bad English)
04:29<Ammler>with current IS, YAPP is also not playable.
04:29<planetmaker>IS = infrastructure sharing
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04:30<Ammler>I hope, those guys will come back, we need some modifications there.
04:30<planetmaker>yeah, I strongly hope so, too...
04:30<planetmaker>That's a patch I like A LOT :)
04:31<planetmaker>but it's far from a state of being somewhat ready for consideration into trunk :S
04:31<planetmaker>And it's BIG.
04:32<Ammler>well, it is even not ready for wwottdgd
04:32<planetmaker>well, it's IMO. We don't have bancrupt companies and we admins can move between companies
04:33<planetmaker>but it's not nice to have to rely on it
04:33<Ammler>well, I won't be a admin then :-)
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04:33<TiberiusTeng>which patch are you talking about?
04:33<planetmaker>you're forced-recruited for that task, Ammler ;)
04:34<Ammler>imagine how so solve train issues, fi track and train belongs to differ comapnies.
04:34<dih>irssi is mucking up for me again!
04:34<planetmaker>Ammler: just disconnect a track. Can be done with a bit communication
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04:35<iAN_>hello and good morning to every single one
04:35<dih>in wwottdgd admin can do anything ;-)
04:35<Ammler>hey iAN_ :-)
04:35<planetmaker>but no doubt, your proposal for access to a train for both, train owner and track owner is a very handy feature there
04:35<planetmaker>hello iAN_
04:35<dih>Ammler: how's the turkey? :-D
04:36<@peter1138>la la
04:36<Ammler>we do not need to speak about it, EM is gone for us.
04:37<dih>at least you have to only soccer playing turkey in the world :-D
04:37<dih>Ammler: does that mean you are not gonna even watch other games?
04:37<dih>peter1138: trallalla
04:37<dih>Ammler: why not?
04:38<dih>be a good sportsman and cheer for another country
04:38<Ammler>no to "not gonna"
04:38<dih>so you're gonna watch?
04:38<Ammler>:-) yes, I will
04:38<dih>that was a confusing answer then :-P
04:38<Wuisch>I don't really watch it but have we won yet?
04:39<Ammler>yep, you have
04:39<dih>Wuisch: yes, the EU has won
04:39<@Rubidium>Wuisch: OpenTTD isn't a country in Europe, so no we haven't
04:40<dih>Rubidium: shame, we should demonstrate to become 'independant' :-P
04:40<Wuisch>that would be awesome though starting our own country of TransportTycoonia
04:40<dih>i would not wanna live there!
04:40<dih>not if all players were gonna come
04:40<dih>just think of all the tourists
04:40<Wuisch>where when you travel to somewhere you don't actually look at where the transport is going you just hop in
04:41<Ammler>it's like in germany with the coal ps
04:41<dih>Rubidium could not even go shopping without getting bugged "my patch my patch"...
04:43<Wuisch>and the air smells like warm rootbeer
04:43<Ammler>and it's like in past, before the world became a ball
04:44<Ammler>was that also the time, when football has born?
04:44<Wuisch>and once youve done some landscaping everyone hates you
04:45<Ammler>did they play with the disks before?
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04:47<Wuisch>a 2 dimensional immage that would change depending on which direction it was going
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05:13<iAN_>Ammler: where are you from?
05:13<iAN_>hi Pikka :-)
05:14<Ammler>iAN_: CH
05:14<iAN_>ah. and you "lost" already?
05:14<Ammler>yep, 2. times
05:14<Ammler>too many for qualifying
05:15<iAN_>hope you allow the other teams to continue playing. And not booting them out of CH now =9
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05:15<Ammler>well, it could be expected :-)
05:16<Ammler>(that we don't qualify)
05:17<Ammler>but the way it happend was ugly. :-P
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05:25<TiberiusTeng>Ammler, I've updated the executable file to use 'r13481M-TibPP' as version string. :)
05:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13482 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Use "extended bytes" in Actions 3 and 4 for vehicles
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05:25<TiberiusTeng>... 5 minutes too early? :p
05:27*TiberiusTeng go to play MGS4
05:27<@peter1138>not really, nothing uses it
05:28<TiberiusTeng>is it supporting a new NewGRF functionality (Action 3/4) ?
05:29<TiberiusTeng>web interfaces aren't updated yet ... hmm
05:29<@peter1138>it's adding newgrf functionality, heh
05:29<@peter1138>but no grf will use them yet (possibly ever)
05:30<TiberiusTeng>is it documented on web? GRF Specs? I'm reading the doc about these 2 functions, but still don't get it
05:30<TiberiusTeng>maybe I should wait for that revision diff to appear =)
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05:31<TiberiusTeng>ahh, I see, field size expansion.
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05:33<@peter1138>not very exciting
05:34<TiberiusTeng>makes me think of the new vehicle window needing a flexible filtering mechanism =)
05:37<@peter1138>yes it does
05:37<@peter1138>but not just on grf :)
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06:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13483 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: oops... IsBuildable thought trees were not buildable, silly of course (tnx Yexo)
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06:15<Wuisch>kinda wierd I seem to only use pikka grfs...Oh no wait got zephyris ones aswell... phew was worried that pikka might start a monopoly on cool grfs' and then start demanding ...stuff
06:15<Pikka>Wuisch: gimme stuff!
06:15<Wuisch>But you don't want my stuff... My stuff smells
06:15<Pikka>oh, okay then
06:16<Wuisch>stinky hundred dollar bills
06:19<Wuisch>anyhow is there away to set your starting amount of money to zero ? I always lose about 5k before I finally decide on where to start building :P
06:20<@peter1138>so you'd rather have -5k instead of 95k?
06:21<Wuisch>well atleast then I wouldn't lose money on interest :p
06:21<Wuisch>those 5$ make a diffrence! :P
06:22<Pikka>Wuisch: pay off your loan at the beginning and then reborrow it when you're ready to start building?
06:22<Wuisch>I'm always to slow to pay off the last 10k ... and I ussually forget :P Anyhow just asking if there was a way if there isn't no biggie :p
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06:29<planetmaker>peter1138: just out of interest: what's your opinion on Roujins ingame rivers patch?
06:30<planetmaker>or rather a possibility to build rivers ingame at all
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06:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13484 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
06:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix [API CHANGE]: AITile::IsBuildable() now returns 'true' on coast tiles
06:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix [API CHANGE]: Renamed AITile::IsWater() to AITile::IsWaterTile() to be more consistant; also, it no longer returns 'true' on coast tiles
06:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITile::IsCoastTile(). Building on such tiles is in general more expensive
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07:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13485 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: let ships also navigate on half-tile sloped watery rail tiles.
07:16<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13486 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: function to determine what TransportTypes a tile holds.
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07:22<Wuisch>Success I finally m ade a 3 way junction that works It only took 5 tries! :P
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09:03<yorick>{ WWT_IMGBTN, RESIZE_NONE, 14, 136, 178, 14, 35, SPR_IMG_BRIDGE, STR_BUILD_AQUEDUCT} <-- is there any documentation on what these numbers mean?
09:03<@Belugas>not requred
09:04<@Belugas>qhen you know why they are there
09:04<yorick>size & position, right?
09:04<planetmaker>hehe. yes
09:04<Progman>of course you dont need the documentation if you know them ;)
09:04<@SmatZ>yorick: search for "struct Widget"
09:04<+glx>first number is color
09:05<planetmaker>looking at them you learn that the buttons have a size of 21 pixels each
09:05<+glx>then left, right, top, bottom
09:05<planetmaker>(except some, like this :P )
09:06<@Belugas>a number should always be understood under the context it is used. Right now, we are talking about widgets, therefor, they are related to widget properties...
09:06<@Belugas>no big magic there
09:07<yorick>trying to add aqueduct button, but the last time I tried to add a button to that window, the sprite was drawn, but outside the window and I couldn't hotkey or click it
09:09<yorick>@calc 178-136
09:09<@DorpsGek>yorick: 42
09:09<@Belugas>mostly becuase you did not add the button at the right coordinates, and most probably out of the window itself.
09:09<@Belugas>this is why you need to understand the system
09:09<yorick>why would that make the hotkey fail?
09:10<yorick>42...does it answer that on all questions?
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09:10<skidd13>Hi folks
09:10<@Belugas>if it failed, it could be because you did not wrote proper support
09:10<@peter1138>it does if that's the answer
09:10<@peter1138>mr belugas
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09:16<yorick>shouldn't the scenario editor have a button to remove that desert bit again?
09:16<yorick>we can only add it now
09:17*yorick slaps ctrl
09:17<yorick>those features should be documented
09:17<@Rubidium>it now is
09:17<yorick>since 1 minute?
09:18<@Rubidium> <- see?
09:21*yorick adds it to the "hidden features using ctrl" wiki page
09:22<@Belugas>mister peter1138!
09:22<@Belugas>sorry, waqs a way for a few moments
09:22<yorick>it's already there :(
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09:24*yorick wants configurable hotkeys
09:24<yorick>and console eastereggs
09:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13487 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: tram bits are not to be considered buildable in any case.
09:24<yorick>wrong channel, try #moocows
09:25<yorick>SmatZ felt like he had to moo there :)
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09:29<yorick>I think the scenedit terraform gui is too big
09:31<yorick>oh, now I remember, I tried to add the "lock" button (the one that moves ships over slopes)
09:32<yorick>because it wasn't added there once canals and locks became a seperate thing
09:32<@Rubidium>it just needs a water build toolbar just like the road toolbar I guess
09:32<yorick>for 3 buttons?
09:32<yorick>Rubidium! Newwaterbuildtoolbar!
09:33*yorick adds sloped bridges to the wishlist
09:33*Rubidium discards yorick as being inconsistent
09:35<yorick>I think they should be able to make canals out of rivers
09:36<yorick>and offcourse speed limits for rivers :)
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09:37<yorick>ooh, it asserted!
09:37<yorick>r.right - r.left == 11
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09:39<yorick>could have something to do with me not resizing the window... is that needed?
09:40<planetmaker>yorick: AFAIK yes
09:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13488 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13485): track wasn't removed on company bankrupcy when there was a ship on lower halftile
09:41<yorick>another array of numbers whose functions are unknown
09:41<@Belugas>to you :)
09:42<@Belugas>because you have not yet dwelve in a search ;)
09:42<Progman>"track wasn't removed on company bankrupcy when there was a ship on lower halftile", always funny how to find such bugs
09:42<@Rubidium>it is not an array
09:42<yorick>doesn't matter, it's separated by ,
09:43<planetmaker> <-- yorick: you might have a look there and just do it analogously
09:46<yorick>does the caption also care?
09:48<@SmatZ>yorick: some widgets have fixed size you have to obey
09:48<@SmatZ>like closebox
09:48<yorick>and stickybox
09:48<@SmatZ>yeah :)
09:49<yorick> stickybox was some 60 pixels wide
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09:59<yorick>heh, it works :)
09:59<yorick>but it's called DDSP_BUILD_BRIDGE
10:00<@peter1138>don't you fucking know what you are
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10:02<Wuisch>A banana?
10:02<yorick>Wuisch, possibly even a coconut
10:04<Wuisch>darnit have to travel to the big city soon... I hate capitals... they're always so crowded and ya know... have other people in it
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10:05<Touqen>Oh noes. Not peoples!
10:05<Noldo>you should live in a country that doesn't have big cities
10:07<Wuisch>I did but then I moved well not really a country but a pronvince
10:07<yorick>10 million live in the edgecity!
10:08<Wuisch>2/3ds of our entire populatoin... No wonder Its always so crowded here
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10:10<@Belugas>[09:58] <@peter1138> don't you fucking know what you are <--- :D
10:10<@Belugas>i was just wondering waht to put on ;)
10:10<dih>a dress belugas :-P
10:11<ln>your clock is off by several hours
10:11*Belugas does not wear a dress, but a wetsuit :P
10:11<dih>what on earth do you want to wear a wet suit for?
10:11<yorick>and where on earth do you live?
10:11<@Belugas>not on earth indeed
10:12*peter1138 grumbles at audioscrobbler wmp plugin breaking
10:12<yorick>for diving
10:12<dih>no kidding!
10:13<dih>yorick: do you have a auto follow invite?
10:13<yorick>possibly not
10:13<@peter1138>oh why the fuck is it only 15:13 :(
10:13<yorick>because it's 16:13
10:14<dih>i know how i could annoy a lot of channels on oftc :-P
10:14<planetmaker>because you look at a clock in that time zone, I guess
10:14<yorick>dih, for inviting me, you'd have to be there yourself
10:14<planetmaker>[16:14] <dih> i know how i could annoy a lot of channels on oftc :-P <-- annoying people is easy and no art
10:16<dih>pm: not by doing it myself :-P
10:16<yorick>dih, do you also " i also have the luxury of someone else having done it" <-- think that
10:17<dih>yorick: you have a day of "i make no sense"?
10:17<dih>oh no - it's every day!
10:18<yorick>how true
10:19<yorick>I'd say it's time for a water gui in the scenario editor
10:20<yorick>Rubidium! Newwaterguiinscenedit!
10:20<dih>i really enjoy SmatZ' on-liners :-D
10:20<dih>yorick: good think your 'say' does not influence openttd too much
10:20<@SmatZ>yorick: you won't help anything this way
10:21<yorick>no, I'm currently writing a patch that allows you building aqueducts in terraformgui
10:21<yorick>in scenarioeditor
10:22<dih>i guessed
10:22<dih>yorick you are no different from most 'i want my patch in trunk' patchers
10:23<+glx>yorick: you're using the best method to get things not done
10:23*dih knows that method also a wee bit ;-)
10:24*yorick keeps quiet
10:24<dih>good idea!
10:25<yorick>thank you!
10:26<dih>ya welcome
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10:36<yorick>now: adapting the toolbar
10:37<dih>yorick: thought you were gonna keep quiet
10:37<yorick>that's my second me
10:37<dih>you are annoying!
10:37<dih>[16:20] <SmatZ> yorick: you won't help anything this way
10:40<planetmaker>sometimes I build those bus stops in OpenTTD, too:
10:40<planetmaker> “We're planning on redesigning the bus stop in a 1960s look.”
10:40<planetmaker>Sabine Grünwald of the Mühlenau retirement home in Hamburg, Germany, ponders how to improve the fake bus stop they installed outside the facility last year. Patients with dementia who wander off tend to collect at the stop, where they can be collected by staff. A bus never actually comes.
10:40<planetmaker>Sources: A. Kurovets, DARPA, Ananova, Times Higher Education, Deutsche Welle
10:41<Mchl>!! that's interesting
10:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13489 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: first determine where to *exactly* build a house before asking a NewGRF whether the location is good instead of possibly moving the house a tile after the NewGRF said the location is good.
10:41<Mchl>has some surrealistic feeling to it
10:42<planetmaker>hehe. yeah, me too :)
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10:42*dih is moving... his house 12 yards to the right!
10:43<Eddi|zuHause3><Ammler> I miss a patch option for the middle stop, else it looks really nice. <- patch options break savegame compatibility, that's why i did not include one
10:43<planetmaker>if you've ever seen a car on the street with the sign "house ahead" and you realize after next curve that it's no joke...
10:44<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, I thought about that
10:44<Ammler>but the patch patck does break it anyway.
10:44<Eddi|zuHause3>no, it doesn't
10:44<Ammler>of course, YAPP etc.
10:44<Eddi|zuHause3>ah, you meant the whole pacck
10:45<Ammler>yeah. :-)
10:46<ln>planetmaker: url to pic?
10:46<Ammler>I discussed already, if it is possible to make something like a console command "trunksave" which clears all nontrunk settings before save.
10:46<planetmaker>ln: there's no URL to my personal memories available. And I haven't scanned those photos yet.
10:46<Ammler>then you could at least keep those patches compatible which doesn't change the map self.
10:48<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, the middle stop should be an orders flag, maybe with a default setting like non-stop
10:48<Eddi|zuHause3>on each go-to order you specify wether the train should stop at the beginning/middle/end of platform
10:49<Eddi|zuHause3>also, middlestop conflicts with the deceleration from RA
10:50<planetmaker>ln: the sign looked like that in that pic, but the street was a national road in the middle of nowhere:
10:50<Eddi|zuHause3>but i don't have the time to do all that
10:50<Ammler>well, you do not play currently, so you should have time :-)
10:50<Ammler>still on strike :P
10:51<Eddi|zuHause3>i play "diploma thesis" instead ;)
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11:04<yorick>ok, off with the keep quiet, I fail at adding a button to a toolbar
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11:08<yorick>but for a brief minute, man could build locks in the scenario editor :)
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11:24<@Belugas>yorick, by any chance, do you have an editor who can show you tabs/spaces?
11:24<yorick>I do
11:24<@Belugas>and if you do, have you looked at your diff?
11:24<yorick>yes, I have
11:25<yorick>it has auto-indent
11:25<@Belugas>well... my friend... look again
11:25<@Belugas>i have spotted at least 4 places where it failed abominably
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11:25<@Belugas>nake it 6
11:26<yorick>maybe, it has to do with the fact that it can indent with spaces
11:26<+glx>only 4 wrong places
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11:29*yorick only spots 3
11:30<@Belugas>+ 'I',
11:30<@Belugas>+ 'B'
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11:30<@Belugas>+ EditorTerraformClick_Transmitter,
11:30<@Belugas>+ EditorTerraformClick_Aqueduct
11:30<@Belugas>+ case DDSP_BUILD_BRIDGE:
11:30<@Belugas>+ ETTW_BUILD_AQUEDUCT, //< Build aqueduct button
11:30<@Belugas>go fix
11:31<@Belugas>-> //< Build aqueduct button <- what is that comment form?
11:31<yorick>yes, I got them
11:31<@Belugas>le sight, as someone would say...
11:33<yorick>plus, the last one, I copied that, and all of the other widged forms have it
11:33<@Belugas>it is misaligned, compared to the ones above and below
11:34<yorick>the comment, or from the 14?
11:34<@Belugas>sarting from 14, yes
11:34<yorick>there you go
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11:44<@Belugas>better, but not yet. you should not rely on autoindent or whatever the tool you are using
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11:45<@Belugas>you are still using the same cursor and the same sprite for the aqueduct as the one for the bridge
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11:45<@Belugas>i know, i'm picky
11:46<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm brain ;)
11:49<yorick>Belugas, do you have another one?
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12:02<@Belugas>a what
12:02<@SmatZ>a nother
12:03<@peter1138>another what?
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause3>i have another one: 1
12:06<fjb>Can I have 1, please?
12:07*SpComb hands fjb an i
12:07<fjb>But I wanted an 1.
12:08<SpComb>oh, sorry, they looked quite the same
12:08<SpComb>you'll have to make do with that i 'cause that's all I've got
12:12*peter1138 has a spare l
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12:15<fjb>Hm, no, thank you guys, that is not what I wanted.
12:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i have this brand new shiny ①, but it costs extra
12:16<@Belugas>i'll have another one,please. Hic
12:16<@Belugas>damned bottle... already empty
12:17<yorick>an â?
12:17<Eddi|zuHause3>or if you are interested in antiquarities, have this Ⅰ
12:17<Eddi|zuHause3>very rare!
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12:21<Eddi|zuHause3>no, sorry, if you want an â, you have to go that way ⇗
12:21<Eddi|zuHause3>or to OBI.
12:21<@Belugas>Off By Infinity?
12:22<Eddi|zuHause3>sorry, that's one for insiders ;)
12:23<fjb>I can see an OBI from my window. :-)
12:25<Eddi|zuHause3> <-- they had a famous commercial, where people were buying tools and building material, and in each shop they went they bought <something>, and asked if they had <something else>, and the seller told them, no you have to go to <some other shop> ... [pause] ... or to OBI.
12:26<Eddi|zuHause3>there's also a parody on that commercial playing with the obvious star wars reference ;)
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12:29<Sacro>some very nice sounding polish lass has just skyped with me
12:29<@peter1138>fucking skype
12:30<fjb>peter1138: Don't confuse Sacro with words like that.
12:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13490 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: a seperate icon for aqueducts
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12:31<Sacro>aquaducts :p
12:32<@peter1138>as aqueduct is the correct spelling, i will not argue with that
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12:33<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it's (der/das) Aquädukt in German
12:33<@peter1138>but as skidd13 is not here, who cares
12:33<@peter1138>yes, but it's not in German
12:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13491 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): -Add: the icon & cursor used for building aqueducts
12:34<Eddi|zuHause3>and even more funny: you don't capitalise German in German ;)
12:34<@Belugas>it's a capital offence
12:35<@Belugas>like Ratts of the Capital
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12:36<@peter1138>very funny
12:36<yorick>Belugas, did you take over his mind or something?
12:37<@peter1138>evening ben
12:43<Ammler>omg, germany
12:44<Eddi|zuHause3>what really worries me is that a swiss person is the first to tell that ;)
12:44<yorick>I constantly get the "Can't build aqueduct - already built" message now
12:44<Eddi|zuHause3>you did it wrong.
12:45<yorick>no, because the aqueduct I want to build is built, and I get the message on the same time
12:47<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: since CH is out, I need a new team to worry about :-)
12:47<Eddi|zuHause3>and you took croatia? :p
12:48<Eddi|zuHause3>well, if "we" lose to austria, all hell is going to break loose ;)
12:50<Ammler>that would be amazing.
12:50<yorick>Eddi|zuHause3, test with the new commit before saying I did something wrong, please :)
12:51<Eddi|zuHause3>you did something wrong :p
12:51<Eddi|zuHause3>and no, i'm on strike
12:53<yorick>or do you require a screencast?
12:53<Eddi|zuHause3>why would i?
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12:56<yorick>why would you not?
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13:15<yorick>eddi|zuHause3! ! niceandshinyscreencastshowingI'mnotdoingitwrong!
13:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't have that kind of bandwidth...
13:16<yorick>2 MB, you don't have 2 mb?
13:16<yorick>I'd take me around 3 seconds to download that
13:17<Eddi|zuHause3>more like 3 minutes here...
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13:17<yorick>your internetz fail :P
13:18<Eddi|zuHause3>@calc 2*1024*8/384/60
13:18<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: 0.711111111111
13:19<Eddi|zuHause3>ok, it's not really 3 minutes, but much more than you think ;)
13:19<Eddi|zuHause3>@calc 2*1024*8/384
13:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: 42.6666666667
13:19<yorick>42 seconds
13:19<yorick>@calc 42/3
13:19<@DorpsGek>yorick: 14
13:20<Eddi|zuHause3>The Answer is the product of three prime numbers
13:20<Prof_Frink>yes. two and three and three and three.
13:21<Eddi|zuHause3>well ;)
13:22<yorick>just take that 42 seconds to download & watch!
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>to watch you fail?
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>i can imagine that quite well without downloading :p
13:23<Eddi|zuHause3>keep in mind that it's taking more than 42 seconds because i share my connection with three other people
13:24<yorick>just watch me fail, while I'm going to eat :)
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause3>it's a Wolf, everybody hide!
13:44<Wolf01>(not the wolf, where you hide so I can find you)
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13:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i hide behind yorick
13:52<yorick>eddi hides behind me
13:53<yorick>i hind behind the Wolf
13:53<yorick>i hide
13:53<Wolf01>mmmh a loop, I should first find me
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14:04<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13492 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added the 'standard' functions max() and min() in global scope
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14:07<Ammler>he, old pathfinder had a nice feature, trains which already wait gives way to driving trains, possible?
14:07<Ammler>they wait some time, also if it is green.
14:07<Eddi|zuHause3>that was not the pathfinder
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14:08<Eddi|zuHause3>and tell that to patrick :p
14:08<Eddi|zuHause3>@seen Patrick
14:08<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Patrick was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 3 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Patrick> it will have hit the 512 limit
14:08<Eddi|zuHause3>@seen Patrick*
14:08<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause3: Patrick* could be Patrick`_ (5 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 34 seconds ago), Patrick` (8 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 44 minutes, and 41 seconds ago), or Patrick (1 year, 3 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes, and 40 seconds ago)
14:08<UnderBuilder>would be cool to see an option for cooperation between companies
14:08<Ammler>then it was a bug?
14:09<yorick>I remember csaboka saying it was going to join OpenTTD some time ago
14:09<Ammler>UnderBuilder: check the forums for "infrastructure sharing"
14:09<Eddi|zuHause3>it was a fix for a bug that showed otherwise
14:09<ln>Patrick` the "openttd is not based on disassembled TTD.exe!" Patrick`
14:10<UnderBuilder>example, company A decides to transport passengers between a company B station and other of company C
14:10<Ammler>it's something like the "yellow state"
14:10<UnderBuilder>aka sharing stationgs
14:10<Eddi|zuHause3>UnderBuilder: the subsidiaries patch is like 10000 revisions old
14:10<Ammler>UnderBuilder: do you know the patch I mentioned?
14:12<UnderBuilder>ehm, it allows to connect two stations from different companies?
14:12<Ammler>and outdated since about 4000 revs :-)
14:12<Ammler>UnderBuilder: yes.
14:13<Ammler>you can use almost everything from every company
14:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13493 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: ReloadAI should reload the AI correctly, no matter what you named your dir
14:14<UnderBuilder>for example, is possible to connect a rail station with an road station from different companies?
14:14<yorick>@seen Gonozal_VIII
14:14<@DorpsGek>yorick: Gonozal_VIII was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 5 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Gonozal_VIII> still nobody here
14:15<yorick>how strange
14:15<yorick>he left us
14:15<Ammler>UnderBuilder: try IS...
14:17<Ammler>hehe, is it possible to revert that behavier. (the waiting on green signals)?
14:17<Ammler>forgot, how well that worked.
14:19<Ammler>that should be a patch setting, I am really wondering, how that would work with YAPF
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14:26<Pikka>hmm.. this is a little weird
14:28<@peter1138>what is?
14:28<Pikka>callback 1D
14:29<Pikka>if I have it in an action 2 chain, it appears to be affecting vehicles that don't go through that part of the chain...
14:30-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
14:30<Pikka>that's what I thought :D
14:30<yorick>oh, that's what caused my bug
14:30*yorick found cause of bug
14:31<yorick>I couldn't know that it wouldn't happen without terraform gui on
14:31<Wuisch>*tries to pretend he knows coding* Have you tried reversing the polarities?
14:31<yorick>I have tried reversing the changes I made
14:32<Pikka>peter: I want to stop certain locomotives from attaching wagons 1B or 34... so I have the following nfo:
14:32<Pikka> 2022 * 18 02 00 66 81 C6 00 FF 02 D7 80 1B 1B D7 80 34 34 FF 80
14:32<Pikka> 2023 * 14 02 00 A4 81 0C 00 FF 01 66 00 1D 1D A4 00
14:32<yorick>why don't we have a walkthrough called "Adding a button to the scenario editor toolbar"?
14:32<Wuisch>And I would like to say.. amsterdam is one ugly city filled with people
14:32<Pikka>which looks fair enough. but then it's returning D7 80 for locomotives of the same ID that don't go anywhere near those action 2s :|
14:32<Wuisch>write one... Well assoon as you've got the okay from one of the devs that it's the correct way to do it
14:33<Wolf01>[20:14:35] <UnderBuilder> for example, is possible to connect a rail station with an road station from different companies?
14:33<Wolf01>If you mean to be able to place a station adjacent, yes: use ctrl
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14:34<Wuisch>Belugas ... help pikka so I can have more betterer grf's
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14:35<yorick>you scared him
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14:36<Wuisch>seems belugas is having some minor technical difficulties
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14:37<yorick>we'll fix this in a minute, thank you all for being here!
14:38<@Belugas_Gone>Pikka needs help?
14:38<@Belugas_Gone>if he did, he'd tell me
14:38<@Belugas_Gone>so you are begging
14:38<Wuisch>[20:28] <Pikka> peter: I want to stop certain locomotives from attaching wagons 1B or 34... so I have the following nfo:
14:38<Wuisch>[20:28] <Pikka> 2022 * 18 02 00 66 81 C6 00 FF 02 D7 80 1B 1B D7 80 34 34 FF 80
14:38<Wuisch>[20:29] <Pikka> 2023 * 14 02 00 A4 81 0C 00 FF 01 66 00 1D 1D A4 00
14:39<Wuisch>[20:29] <Pikka> which looks fair enough. but then it's returning D7 80 for locomotives of the same ID that don't go anywhere near those action 2s :|
14:39-!-Frostregen [] has quit [Quit: und weg]
14:39<Pikka>callback 1D is doing weird things :)
14:39<Wuisch>I prefer to call it unsocial solliciting
14:39*Belugas_Gone cannot helps Pikka on da matter
14:40<Pikka>uhuh :O
14:40<Pikka>so peter is my only hope. :)
14:40<@SmatZ>I am doing performance fixes in 32bpp blitter
14:40<yorick>because Belugas_Gone are gone?
14:40<yorick>SmatZ, the 32bpp-anim one?
14:40<Wuisch>have you tried it a couple more times maybe the return will change after a while
14:40<@SmatZ>yorick: both
14:41<@SmatZ>but I need real sprites I can test it on
14:41<@SmatZ>preferably with a lot of transparency
14:41<@SmatZ>do you have any tip?
14:41<yorick>I don't have any problems for the normal blitter
14:41<Ammler>SmatZ: do you like my 32bpp pack :-)
14:41<yorick>just the anim one isn't working - mouse stuttering
14:41<@SmatZ>Ammler: actually, I haven't seen it, or I don't know it is yours :)
14:41<@SmatZ>does it use transparency?
14:42<TiberiusTeng>Ammler, you got a 32bit pack?
14:42<@SmatZ>yorick: yeah, that's a bit problematic :-/
14:42<Ammler>it's not mine
14:42<yorick>alpha channel transp?
14:42<Ammler>I only made a pack :-)
14:42<yorick>hmm...IRC acting strange, brb
14:42<@SmatZ>yorick: that's what I need :)
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14:42<@SmatZ>Ammler: can you give me a link?
14:42<TiberiusTeng>I would like to test it ... since I don't even used one before, and wanted to see how it performs on my OpenGL blitter too
14:42<yorick>there I am again
14:42<yorick>or the transparency color
14:43<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: it is not really better...
14:43<@SmatZ>yorick: using alpha channel from PNG
14:43<yorick>don't have those
14:43<@SmatZ>the same blitter, but more optimised
14:44<yorick>just the anim is a problem for me, the normal blitter doesn't show any performance difference compared to the 8bpp one
14:44<Ammler>SmatZ: I have no download except a torrent I made for some germans.
14:44<UnderBuilder>Wolf01: I meant binding your station to the other, not making a separate one
14:45<Ammler>but that has also the zoom-level patch build with it
14:45<@SmatZ>Ammler: is it that big?
14:45<@SmatZ>I need only sprites
14:45<@SmatZ>not code
14:45<TiberiusTeng>SmatZ, you mean the 32bpp-optimized blitter ?
14:45<yorick>just make a 32bpp-zoom-anim blitter, and I'm happy
14:45<TiberiusTeng>it (and 32bit-anim) is good while zoomed in (and that's enough for 'casual' play, too)
14:45<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: yes, I am doing some changes in 32bpp-optimised and 32bpp-anim
14:46<@SmatZ>and I need to benchmark it on 32bpp sprites
14:46<TiberiusTeng>yes, I'm making one using OpenGL and believe it will do anim as fast as 8bpp ;)
14:46<yorick>TiberiusTeng, I'm talking about 2x zoomin
14:46<@SmatZ>hehe with shaders, everything is possible ;-)
14:46<@peter1138>Pikka: A4 goes to A4?
14:46<TiberiusTeng>yeah ;)
14:47<TiberiusTeng>but I haven't finished anim part yet
14:47<Pikka>yes peter
14:48<TiberiusTeng>anyway I wish a 32bpp pack for benchmarking purposes, too :p
14:48<yorick>any openttd gui expert willing to help me? please? I need some help on the toolbar
14:48<TiberiusTeng>SmatZ, how did you take your benchmarks ?
14:48<@peter1138>probably need more nfo than that
14:49<Ammler>well, I just collected some 32bpp graphics, but also those with the zoom levels
14:49<Ammler>the bz2 is 14m
14:49<yorick>if I try to add a button, the last button is warped to the left
14:49<Pikka>it's almost like it caches everything after the 0C check, and then applies it to any vehicle with that ID from that point on. I'm trying something at the moment to see if it works if I put a date check *after* the 0C check, instead of before.
14:49<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: with this
14:49<Ammler>SmatZ: should I upload it or do you like to download it self from the forums?
14:50<Ammler>I have no idea, if those use transparency etc.
14:50<TiberiusTeng>great, very straightforward
14:50<@SmatZ>Ammler: does DCC work over IRC?
14:51<Pikka>eh, nope, didn't help. I was sure it would. :|
14:51<Ammler>you don't have torrent running?
14:51<@SmatZ>Ammler: no?
14:51<TiberiusTeng>and how's the extra zoom-in levels currently done ?
14:51<yorick>some patch by GeekToo
14:51<Ammler>then I load it to the server
14:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13494 /trunk/src/table/sprites.h: -Fix: a little documentation + copy-paste mistake for sprite.h.
14:53<Wuisch>has anyone played with the zoom patch yet?
14:53<Ammler>SmatZ: but you need to wait about 15mins :-)
14:53<@orudge>has somebody altered how fast the arrow keys scroll in OpenTTD vaguely recently? it seems all fast and jumpy for me, and the game's not in fast forward mode :/
14:53*SmatZ waits about 15 mins
14:53<Ammler>my upload is quite slow
14:54<TiberiusTeng>so it's not in trunk yet? :(
14:54<@SmatZ>orudge: yeah, it behaves strange when you move the mouse :-P
14:54<yorick>Wuisch, yes I have
14:54<@SmatZ>TiberiusTeng: extra-zoom? no
14:54<yorick>some pre-9 version
14:54<TiberiusTeng>hope I don't need to do huge code fixups later :p
14:54<@orudge>SmatZ: mmh?
14:54<yorick>I compiled it on 0.6.0-beta5 and then joined some servers with it
14:54<@SmatZ>orudge: is it caused by moving the mouse, or by something different?
14:54<TiberiusTeng>32bpp.tar.bz2: it's not ready yet? after 15 minutes?
14:54<Wuisch>does it add coolness?
14:54<@orudge>not moving the mouse at all
14:54<yorick>Wuisch, if you have the graphics, sure
14:54<@orudge>or maybe it was
14:55<Wuisch>not a lot of graphics available yet for it are there?
14:55<@orudge>tis fine if the mouse is still
14:55<Wuisch>like 1 buss and a couple of buildings?
14:55<@orudge>I'm sure it never used to do that...
14:55<@SmatZ>maybe it should be propaerly reported or nobody fixes that
14:55<yorick>Wuisch, I have 20MB of new graphics
14:55<@Rubidium>hmm, did I break it?
14:56<TiberiusTeng>for my current testing, while zoomed out 8x (minimum zooming level) 32bpp-optimized/32bpp-anim will drop below 1 fps on my desktop, while my OpenGL testing blitter can still do as fast as 8bpp-optimized ...
14:56<TiberiusTeng>but I still need to fixup anim :)
14:56<@SmatZ>Rubidium: maybe came with that TICK event merging
14:56<yorick>including a whole wagon renewal & rail renewal set, Wuisch
14:56<Ammler>SmatZ: TiberiusTeng, please don't share the link, it's just a compressed data folder, no idea, if I am allowed to distribute it.
14:57<TiberiusTeng>Ammler, acknowledged.
14:57<Wuisch>could you zip a working openttd patched with those files and share it yorick? I'd like to check it out if possible
14:57<Wuisch>And can't seem to compile openttd with vista
14:57<yorick>read the last long ammler-message
14:57<Wuisch>and my linux skills are innsufficient for cygwin
14:58<TiberiusTeng>'wait 15 minutes' < not quite understand ... does this mean I can start downloading right now?
14:58<Ammler>its at 75%
14:58<TiberiusTeng>I'll wait for your green light then
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14:59<Ammler>hmm, I have no idea, if they are compatible with trunk 32bpp
14:59<Wuisch>is there a big diffrence between a zoom 32bit sprite and a non zoom 32bpp?
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14:59<yorick>however, I can send you a screenshot
14:59<Wuisch>that will have to do then :P
15:00<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: SmatZ ok now
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15:00<TiberiusTeng>well, I just can't help imaging how a bus still turn 45 degrees while 2x zoomed in ;)
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15:00<@Rubidium>orudge: <- does it solve it or not?
15:01<@SmatZ>Ammler: done, thanks
15:01<Ammler>another hidden link:
15:01<Eddi|zuHause3>15 minutes upload, 30 seconds download :p
15:01<TiberiusTeng>beware Google crawlers ;)
15:01<Ammler>it wasn't 15
15:02<Eddi|zuHause3>no, more like 7
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15:02<Ammler>switched off KTorrent
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause3>that typically helps, yes :p
15:04<@orudge>Rubidium: that seems to fix it, yes
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15:04<Wuisch>Quite nice but the 8bpp things look blotchy zoomed?
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15:05<yorick>what did you think?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause3>there is this ancient patch which included smoothing filters for 2x zoom
15:06<yorick>oh, the depot isn't replaced
15:06<TiberiusTeng>Ammler, done, thanks.
15:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13495 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: scrolling the main map with the keys speed was influenced by movement of the mouse.
15:07<Eddi|zuHause3>the bus is a little bit too long
15:08<Wuisch>but now there's a group of people making 8bpp sprites for open ttd and a group making 32bpp sprites?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause3>"konkurrenz belebt das Geschäft"
15:08-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
15:08<Ammler>do you need asserts from 0.4.5 :P
15:09<Wuisch>I'd Just think that if all of them combined there powers we could have a complete set of one or the other sooner :p
15:09<Eddi|zuHause3>there's also a group of people developing TTD in assembler and a group of people developing TTD in C++, big news!
15:09<Wuisch>once you can play openttd on a normal calculator i'll b e impressed :P
15:11<@Rubidium>Ammler: what do you think?
15:11<Eddi|zuHause3>Wuisch: improvements of one group drive the other group forward
15:11<Ammler>Rubidium: :-)
15:11<Eddi|zuHause3>there was no 8bpp development for a long time because it was said "32bpp will come, and there'll be a complete replacement"
15:12<Eddi|zuHause3>then 32bpp came and nothing was done
15:12<Eddi|zuHause3>so people started with 8bpp, and suddenly there was also improvement in 32bpp set
15:13<Wuisch>but why would the one be a competitor to the other... and who competetivly creates sprites... people are strange
15:14<Eddi|zuHause3>everything is a competition, the world does simply not work without it
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15:14<yorick>except if you're living with communism
15:14<Eddi|zuHause3>that's one of the major reasons for socialism to fail
15:15<Eddi|zuHause3>there was no encuragement of competition
15:15<TiberiusTeng>I just can't stop playing MGS4 and come back writing code ... ouch.
15:15<Eddi|zuHause3>even cuba just introduced competition in the work force (by lifting the "equal pay" law)
15:16<Pikka>peter1138: bugger. it *does* work if I put the date check inside the 1D, I was checking the age of the coach before instead of the age of the loco.
15:16<Wuisch>yes I can understand how you'd like more effort to equal more money... but sprites are just sprites... Are there really that many people going "Look at them they created a road sprite! Quickly we must make a road sprite in our own size"!
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15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, because "see, mine looks more shiny than yours"
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15:17<Wuisch>don't the 8bpps always look less shiney?
15:18<Eddi|zuHause3>depends on what kind of valuation you base it on ;)
15:18<yorick>could someone help me at adding a button to the scenario editor toolbar?
15:18<@Rubidium>the original gfx looks at least more shiny than the opengfx stuff
15:18<Wuisch>this is why the human race is doomed to fail... we only do stuff so we can rub it in some other people's face apperantly
15:18<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, some of it looks quite dull
15:19<Eddi|zuHause3>Wuisch: i see no reason why that immediately means "fail"
15:19<@Rubidium>Wuisch: would we've gotten carbon fibre and such if the American and Russians didn't go to the moon?
15:19<yorick>Wuisch, then did you type it so you could rub that in my face?
15:19<@Rubidium>wouldn't we all be coding in COBOL?
15:19<Eddi|zuHause3>aren't we?
15:19<yorick>no, we took the OBOL away
15:20-!-Zahl__ [] has joined #openttd
15:20<yorick>now we're coding in a lesser language
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15:20<Wuisch>well its just a matter of time before one person goes look at the size of boom I can create and then another goes but my boom is bigger
15:20<yorick>they already did that on Japan
15:20<Ammler>opengfx is currently mostly to dark, imo.
15:20<Wuisch>yes but that was quite a small boom
15:21<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, after that they realised it'd be better to compare theoretical booms :p
15:21<Eddi|zuHause3>"we could blow up earth 295 times"
15:22<Wuisch>and there's many many inventions that were done without the direct pressure of competition... I really don't think the lightbulb was invented by sheer competition...
15:22<Wuisch>sooner or later they're gonna want to see if the theory resembles the reality though
15:22<Eddi|zuHause3>a few other things were invented purely out of the need to survive
15:23<Eddi|zuHause3>but you can argue that's also a competition
15:23<Eddi|zuHause3>or rather the most basic competition
15:23<Demoder>Competition; Life vs death?
15:23<Eddi|zuHause3>"i can survive better than you"
15:23<Ammler> <-- someone of you knows a patch for that?
15:23<@Rubidium>you need to steal it
15:23<Wuisch>I don't believe we'd still be living in the stone age if we didn't have the primal urge to bash each others skulls in thats all I'm saying
15:23<Eddi|zuHause3>Ammler: i assume that's some newgrf thing
15:24<@Rubidium>go to Russia and ask for Sergej S.
15:24<Ammler>his site is down.
15:24<@Rubidium>cool, the RIAA took them down?
15:24<Ammler>no idea, maybe the ISP?
15:24<TiberiusTeng>Ammler, I can't get these sprites to work ... how should I do after uncompressed them? merely puts they inside 'data' doesn't seem to work :Q
15:25<@Rubidium>put the uncompressed tar in data/
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15:25<TiberiusTeng>got it.
15:26<Ammler>TiberiusTeng: as I said, I used those with the zoom patch
15:26<Ammler>no idea, if they are compatible with trunk
15:26<@Rubidium>oh, likely not ;)
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15:27<Ammler>well, not all grfs are for zoom patch
15:28<TiberiusTeng>aha, some of them worked. just checked the source, seems it won't display a PNG sprite without mask for now.
15:30<TiberiusTeng>and those with _z0 ~ _z2 won't show up. well, not compatible :p
15:31<Ammler>a nice wiki page btw:
15:31<Ammler>I guess, the nonzoom should have something similar
15:32<TiberiusTeng>but seems they have separate sprites for each zoom level, so it's unlikely for my OpenGL blitter to be massively rewritten ...
15:33<TiberiusTeng>that branch can directly read .tar files ?
15:33<yorick>trunk can
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3># Weisst du noch wie's früher war?
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3># Früher war alles schlecht!
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3># Der Himmel grau, die Menschen mies.
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3># Die Welt war furchtbar ungerecht.
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3># Doch dannn; dann kam die Wende! (Hip Hip Hurra...)
15:34<Ammler>but it seems I have all GRFs in the pack
15:34<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3 is speaking in comments again
15:34<Eddi|zuHause3>only if you speak python ;)
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15:34<Ammler>tars, I meant
15:34<Prof_Frink>yorick: That's ASP.
15:35<Wuisch>Where can I get v10 of geektoo's zoom patch... I can only seem to find v9
15:35<Wuisch>oops never mind found it >_<
15:36<TiberiusTeng>I don't think trunk can read tar for now :Q
15:36<yorick>it can
15:37<@Belugas>it cannot?
15:37<Eddi|zuHause3>it should
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15:37<@Belugas>it must
15:37<@Belugas>it is
15:37<+glx>it does
15:38<Eddi|zuHause3># Wir müssen nur wollen
15:38<+glx>I have TTD files in a tar only
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15:39<TiberiusTeng>ahh. got it, sorry ...
15:41<@Belugas>what's bad about instrumental songs, you can't paste the lyrics...
15:41<@Belugas>and of course, you cannot sing...
15:41<Eddi|zuHause3>indeed, i noticed that, too ;)
15:41<Prof_Frink># And she's buying a stairway to heaven...
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15:42<Wuisch>but really is that a bad thing belugas?
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15:42<@Belugas>i personally find
15:42<Eddi|zuHause3># Muss ich immer alles müssen, was ich kann?
15:42<Eddi|zuHause3># Eine Hand in den Sternen, die andere im Hintern vom Vordermann
15:42<Eddi|zuHause3># Dies ist das Land der begrenzten Unmöglichkeiten,
15:43<Eddi|zuHause3># Wir können Pferde ohne Beine rückwärts reiten
15:43<@Belugas>Mogwai - We're no here <-- killer song
15:43<@Belugas>love it love it love it!!!
15:44<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i don't think i have that
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15:44<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: What are you doing with your hand on Vorderman's sternum?
15:45<Eddi|zuHause3>you missed the real joke, i'm afraid ;)
15:45<Wuisch>Turisas cover of boney M's song Rasputin, it is made of win
15:46<Prof_Frink>Stairway. Win is made of it.
15:47<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13496 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: if a library depends on an other library, the import became globally known, which defeats the idea of imports. They are now restricted to their scope, and 'import' returns the class of import (if any)
15:47-!-Yexo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:48*Prof_Frink erupts
15:48<@Belugas>better erupting then eructing...
15:48-!-Yexo [] has joined #openttd
15:48-!-Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
15:48-!-Pikka [] has quit []
15:49<Prof_Frink>And now, Freebird.
15:49-!-ben_goodger [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
15:51<@peter1138>i did see them once
15:52<@peter1138>hmm, don't have mr beast ripped here :o
15:53-!-Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:53-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
15:53<yorick>seems like the scenario editor zoom button enabling/disabling at toolbar is done a bit hackish?
15:54<yorick>like: if I try to add button 18, it disables that one if fully zoomed in
15:56<@peter1138>everything gui is hackish
15:57<yorick>even worse, at clean trunk, the real zoom buttons don't get disabled
15:57<yorick>peter1138! fixhackishzoomstuff!
15:58<@peter1138>yorick! pissoff!
15:58<Prof_Frink>peter1138! ncopenttd!
15:58<Prof_Frink>foiled again!
15:59<Prof_Frink># Hello... Is there anybody in there?
16:00<@peter1138>foiled again?
16:03-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: And Poef!]
16:26<Prof_Frink># On a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair
16:27<Touqen>Don't stop. We're in bat country!
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16:30<Wuisch>where's the open ttd crf by default?
16:31<Wuisch>and by crf I mean cfg
16:31<Wuisch>never mind found it
16:35<@Belugas>My Documents could be a place to start
16:35<@Belugas>if on windows
16:35<@Belugas>or at the place where it started
16:36<xahodo>Can the yapf patch settings be added to the list of patch settings which can be changed during gameplay? I have a game in which I'm trying to change rail_firstred_twoway_penalty, but the console isn't aware of its existence.
16:37<xahodo>However, it is aware of road_stop_penalty.
16:39<@Belugas>dunno if it's possible
16:41<@Belugas>night all
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16:43<xahodo>Can't all the yapf settings be made visible (and changeable) in the console?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause3>they are
16:45<Noldo>firstred_twoway is such a classic
16:45<Eddi|zuHause3>patch yapf.what_ever_it_is_called <number
16:45<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, that's the most important
16:45<Eddi|zuHause3>but i also changed the depot reverse penalty
16:46<Eddi|zuHause3>and i played around with the yapp values, too
16:46<xahodo>Well, the console tells me it doesn't know the patch setting.
16:47<Eddi|zuHause3>you have to prefix it with "yapf."
16:47<xahodo> /not/ pf.yapf. ?
16:47<Eddi|zuHause3>"list_patches" will tell you the exact name
16:47<Eddi|zuHause3>well, might have changed with the settings rework
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16:48<xahodo>sorry, the only yapf option showing here (on a windows box, currently) is pf.yapf.road_stop_penalty
16:49<Eddi|zuHause3>did you scroll the output?
16:49<xahodo>yes, I did.
16:49<Eddi|zuHause3>then you should probably report that ;)
16:51<Eddi|zuHause3>but i assume list_patches needs some kind of "|more" or "|less" option ;)
16:51<xahodo>lets see...
16:52<xahodo>well, it's only usage is "list_patches", no parameters seem to be accepted.
16:52<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i said it needs it, not that it has it ;)
16:53<Eddi|zuHause3>anyway, name should be the same as in the config file (+prefix)
16:53-!-Slowpoke [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:57<Eddi|zuHause3>helpful would also be a "list_patches [<subcategory>]" command
16:58-!-ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
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17:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13497 /branches/noai/bin/ai/library/pathfinder/ (. road/ road/library.nut road/main.nut): [NoAI] -Add [Library]: pathfinder.road, a basic road pathfinder (no bridges/tunnels (yet)) (patch by Yexo, very nice job!)
17:08-!-TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
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17:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13498 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): [NoAI] -Add: added 'pathfinder.road' to the regression
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... funny "They tested the engines [of the LBE], which were designed for the flat northern german routes, on the route from Frankfurt-Höchst to Königstein im Taunus, which has some pretty steep sections. of the 14 wagons that started in Frankfurt, only 2 arrived in Königsstein, the rest had to be left one-by-one on the tracks."
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>[the Lübeck-Büchener Eisenbahn (LBE) was the one who first used push-pull-service in the 1930's]
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>[with steam engines]
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17:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r13499 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp landscape.cpp slope_func.h): -Codechange: Allow drawing (ugly) leveled foundations on steep slopes, just in case someone needs them for fallback.
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17:39<Eddi|zuHause3>err... wtf?
17:39<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't understand that commit at all...
17:39<frosch123>it's just a codechange
17:41<ln>there's no thing as "just a codechange".
17:50<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: now I read that wiki article about steering cars... nice to know
17:51<@Bjarni>now I know that I should be more picky when I select rail travels in Germany :s
17:51<Eddi|zuHause3>well, you don't have that many choices ;)
17:52<@Bjarni>that sucks
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17:53<@Bjarni>it would appear that they will drive like that until they make a new accident like the ICE3 derailment
17:53<@Bjarni>and some report will declare that the accident is likely not to have happened if the speed were lower or it wasn't a steering car
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>ICE3 has no designated engine compartment, the engines are under the floor through the entire train
17:54<@Bjarni>I know
17:54<@Bjarni>but I mean the derailment
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>the article above talked about the ICE2
17:54<@Bjarni>the passengers don't care where the engine is
17:54<@Bjarni>they care about the results
17:54<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13500 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (library/pathfinder/road/main.nut regression/regression.txt): [NoAI] -Fix r13497: minor glitch in slope-check (Yexo)
17:55*peter1138 autoreplaces Bjarni's engine
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i never heard of a derailment due to steering wagons
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i heard of derailments due to sheep
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>or derailments due to broken wheels
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>or derailments due to high speed through switches [with engine in front, btw.]
17:56<ln>00:51 <@Bjarni> now I know that I should be more picky when I select rail travels in Germany :s <-- more picky than during your previous rail travels in Germany?
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17:58<ben_goodger>you're still blathering about the DMUs?
17:59<@Bjarni>it would appear so
17:59<Eddi|zuHause3>the term "DMU" does not exist in german
17:59<Sacro>Bjarni blathers a lot
17:59*Bjarni slaps Sacro
17:59<@Bjarni>I do that a lot as well
17:59<Eddi|zuHause3>there exists the term "Dieseltriebwagen", but that leaves out the "multiple" part
17:59*Sacro giggles
18:02<Eddi|zuHause3> <- early development of steering wagons/push-pull service in east germany
18:05<@Bjarni>the picture of the cab looks somewhat familiar
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18:06<@Bjarni>I guess it would be a matter of minutes before I could figure out how to drive that one
18:07*DaleStan wishes peter1138 had changed action 3 in a way that was easier to get NFORenum to parse.
18:07<@Bjarni>looks like it controls electric traction
18:07*DaleStan cannot, however, come up with a better solution that is still backward compatible.
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18:08<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, it says that was pre-electric, so only indirect steering (the heater on the engine had to follow the signals given by the driver)
18:09<@Bjarni>actually maybe not
18:09<@Bjarni>something looks a bit different
18:10<@Bjarni>ahh one of those
18:10<Eddi|zuHause3>the driver can only control the brake
18:10<@Bjarni>I hope he has stuff like horn as well
18:11<@Bjarni>maybe I should read the text before saying anything else
18:12<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> [..] the heater on the engine <-- he is called a fireman in English
18:12<Eddi|zuHause3>it says they put in [complicated pipe stuff and valves] for the brake, a 3-wire-cable for the orders, headlights and a pipe driven by pressured air
18:12<@Bjarni>I mean I guess you mean Lokheizer
18:13<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i mean that one
18:13<Eddi|zuHause3>they also call him "second driver" in this paper
18:13<Eddi|zuHause3>because he has to get special training
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18:14<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> because he has to get special training <--- hahaha
18:14<@Bjarni>it's not like firemen didn't know how to drive
18:14<Eddi|zuHause3>well, they did have to learn the order signals
18:14<@Bjarni>today firemen has to know ALL signals
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18:15<@Bjarni>at least here
18:15<Eddi|zuHause3>not the railside signals, the orders given from the driver
18:15-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:15<Eddi|zuHause3>via the cable
18:15<@Bjarni>like it would be tricky :)
18:17<@Bjarni>around that time Denmark built some diesel electric units that could control the engines based on signals in some wires (more than 3 wires).
18:18<@Bjarni>so the engines could be remote controlled from a cab in the other end of the train
18:18<@Bjarni>basically they supported "normal" steering car trains like we know them
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause3>well, yes, it says they say they used the E 04 23 for "direct" steering, once the electrification was rebuilt
18:19<@Bjarni>usually they consisted of one locomotive and one steering car (the locomotive had room for like 50 passengers + a room for small cargo like bikes
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause3>E 04 23 was previously prepared for direct steering in 1939
18:19<@Bjarni>originally the design was to allow one driver to control two engines though
18:19<Eddi|zuHause3>and then tested in the Munich area
18:20<@Bjarni>so they could also drive with say 6 cars and a locomotive in each end
18:20<@Bjarni>I tried driving one of those... it was... interesting
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18:21<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> E 04 23 <--- honestly I can't remember all the numbers in German trains :|
18:21<@Bjarni>maybe because I never looked into them
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>you don't have to, it says so right in the text ;)
18:23<@Bjarni>I noticed they mention some but I have problems connecting those numbers with actual trains
18:23<Eddi|zuHause3>that's what wikipedia or is for ;)
18:24<@Bjarni>I like the Danish version of naming locomotives. They are each assigned one or two letters. If it's one then it's steam, if it's two then if the first is M then it's diesel and if it's E then it's electric
18:24<@Bjarni>so just by looking at the name you already know the traction type
18:25<@Bjarni><EddizuHause3> ... <-- bookmarked :D
18:26<Eddi|zuHause3>german wikipedia has extensive articles on most engine classes, usually with pictures
18:27-!-bowman^2 is now known as bowman
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>and germany obviously had more engine classes than denmark, so one letter did not suffice, so they used two numbers
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>and one (or more) prefix letters denoting the type
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>none - steam
18:27<@Bjarni>actually we have problems with reusing letters >_<
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>E - electric
18:28<@Bjarni>type P is actually two different engines
18:28<Eddi|zuHause3>ET - electric "triebwagen"
18:28<@Bjarni>but one is so much older than the other one that I don't think they ever met
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18:28<Eddi|zuHause3>ETA - electric "triebwagen" with "akkumulator" [battery]
18:29<@Bjarni>I read about those
18:29<@Bjarni>did they really work?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause3>V and VT for the diesel ones
18:29<@Bjarni>I mean charge and discharge time
18:29<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, they were used a long time
18:29<Prof_Frink>See, it's far simpler here.
18:29<Prof_Frink>43 - Fast train.
18:29<ben_goodger>wouldn't an akkumulator mean a capacitor? as in a charge accumulator
18:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13501 /trunk/src/ (signs_func.h signs_gui.cpp viewport.cpp): -Feature(tte): ctrl+click on sign you own to remove it (Osai, planetmaker)
18:30<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: basically it means batteries
18:30<Eddi|zuHause3>they later replaced the letters with single numbers, for better computer use
18:30<@Bjarni>lead-acid (like in cars) if I recall correctly
18:30<Eddi|zuHause3>"akkumulator" [or short "akku"] in german means "rechargable battery"
18:32-!-KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:32<ben_goodger>no lithium ions then :)
18:32<Eddi|zuHause3>again a "huge" feature and nobody notices :p
18:33<Vikthor>Old czechoslovak system was pretty interesting, it coded in number of coupled axles, max speed and weight per axle
18:33<@Bjarni>could you give some examples?
18:33<Vikthor>so you could get some idea of capability of the locomotive
18:34<Eddi|zuHause3>well, steam engines often had additional "tags" for stuff like boiler pressure
18:34<@Bjarni>I have seen the number of coupled axles used elsewhere. Japanese steam locomotives all have a single letter in front of the name and it means how many coupled wheels they have. C and D are the most common (I think)
18:34<@Bjarni>I like systems like that
18:36<Vikthor>unfortunately later it hit limits, since there was to much locomotives with same designation
18:37<ben_goodger>in britain we call them "bobo", "coco" or "boco" in that fashion
18:37<ben_goodger>it's very amusing for small children
18:37<Vikthor>yeah, that's used here to
18:38<ben_goodger>of course, we have a complex and largely arbitrary class system also --- the manufacturers seemed to pick the next available ten-number block in most cases
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18:39<@Bjarni>Vikthor: looks interesting
18:39<Vikthor>anyway the old system is now gone, and we have now boring designation like 680 for Pendolino, or 380 for yet-to-be-completed Škoda locomotive
18:39<Eddi|zuHause3>typical modern engines have an axle scheme of Bo'Bo'
18:40<@Bjarni>or Co'Co'
18:40<ben_goodger>you've pendolinos in japan?
18:40<Eddi|zuHause3>heavier ones Co'Co'
18:40<Eddi|zuHause3>Vikthor is from czechia
18:40<@Bjarni>Cennential had Do'Do' o_O
18:40<@Bjarni>with an axle pressure of 31 tons
18:40<Vikthor>How you came to idea taht I am from Japan, when I speak about Czechoslovak numbering system :D
18:40<ben_goodger>you've pendolinos in czechia?
18:41<ben_goodger>I thought you were speaking about the japanese one, and I thought pendolinos were assembled by a british compan
18:41<Eddi|zuHause3>welcome to the globalisation!
18:41-!-Touqen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:41<Eddi|zuHause3>"pendolino" sounds awfully italian to me
18:41<ben_goodger>oh, no, french
18:42<ben_goodger>it's used throughout europe, apparently
18:42<Vikthor>These Pendolinos were assembled by Alsthom(French company) in Italian factory
18:42<ben_goodger>I thought their wonderful reliability was confined to great britain
18:42<Vikthor>or is it Alstom?
18:42<@Bjarni>Vikthor: 今晩は
18:42<ln>Pendolino was a product of Fiat Ferroviaria.
18:43<Vikthor>ln: Sure, but they are now owned by Alstom
18:43<ln>I know.
18:43<ben_goodger>ln: they were bought by alstom
18:43<ben_goodger>I thought alstom were british. something else I learned today
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18:45<Vikthor>And surprisingly even when Pendolinos were target of any jokes for their reliability, now as some issues has been solved they regarded as ones of the more reliable units in CD pool
18:45<ln>on-topic tube url:
18:46<Eddi|zuHause3>the funny thing about german engine class numbering is, the engines were older than the numbering system, so they had time to actually group them in more or less sensible ranges (fast passenger, slow passenger, light freight, heavy freight)
18:47<ben_goodger>but of course, we couldn't have that, as it would introduce change
18:47<@Bjarni>we lack trains here
18:47<@Bjarni>the railroad ordered some DMUs for delivery in 2004 or something
18:47<@Bjarni>still not working
18:48<Eddi|zuHause3>well, the change was necessary in the 1920's to unify all the different Länderbahnen, who were individual companies in each part of germany
18:48<@Bjarni>do any of you have spare locomotives we could borrow/buy? :)
18:48<ben_goodger>Bjarni: we've a huge number of class 43, 47 and 57 locos you can have
18:48<Eddi|zuHause3>we sent you the ICE-TD :p
18:48<ben_goodger>unfortunately the class 43 only works with one type of rolling stock.
18:49<@Bjarni>the ICE-TD were on TV when they talked about trains and lack of good ones
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18:49<Prof_Frink>ben_goodger: beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwm
18:49<@Bjarni>somehow they claimed that passengers sit better in ICE-TD than in short range commuter trains
18:49<@Rubidium>Bjarni: just use the N700 ;)
18:49<Eddi|zuHause3>funny, Belugas' email from 3 hours ago arrived ;)
18:50<ben_goodger>Prof_Frink: Deltik
18:50<@Bjarni>ben_goodger: it's Deltic :P
18:50<@Bjarni>but I don't think we want a locomotive from 1959
18:51<ben_goodger>deltik looks better. more german
18:51<ben_goodger>which of those is from 59?
18:51<ben_goodger>oh, deltic
18:51<@Bjarni>the design
18:51<ben_goodger>it's kind of claggy
18:51<ben_goodger>the 57 is good, though. it does 100mph
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18:51<ben_goodger>sorry, 140km/h
18:51<@Bjarni>140 km/h is the speed limit for any locomotive here
18:51<Eddi|zuHause3>interesting conversion factor you have ;)
18:52<@Rubidium>Bjarni: then the N700 is pointless ;)
18:52<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause3: km/h is not my native language :P
18:52<Eddi|zuHause3>we have trains that have a scheduled speed of 350km/h
18:52<@Bjarni>basically the owner of the tracks don't want great forces from a single unit
18:52<@Rubidium>ben_goodger: furlong per fortnight then?
18:52<ben_goodger>Rubidium: no, miles per hour
18:53<ben_goodger>we're still using the imperial mile, for some reason...
18:53<ben_goodger>people really hate the european union, the euro, and metrification here
18:53<@Bjarni>because you aren't on the list of countries that rejected the metric system
18:53<ben_goodger>no, we're metric in most other ways
18:54<@Bjarni>so it's an EU idea that GB should use the metric system?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause3>do you use A4 paper?
18:54<@Bjarni>I do
18:54<@Bjarni>once in a while
18:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i was talking to the "outsider" ;)
18:55<@Bjarni>I now it's retro but sometimes I use old stuff
18:55<Vikthor>Once in a while EU could something usefull, after that they could teach them to drive on the proper side of road :D
18:55<@Bjarni>only 3 countries officially denies using the metric system
18:56<@Bjarni>2 dictatorships (controlled by military) and USA
18:56-!-Pikka [] has quit []
18:57<ben_goodger>celsius for temperature, farenheit for temperature also, kilograms for sugar, pounds for butter, litres for fuel, pints for milk, gallons for buckets, metres for distances between road signs, yards for the numbers on the signs, miles for roads, acres for land area, grams per square metre for paper weight, feet and inches for height, inches for collars/legs, British foot numbers for feet, millimetres for paper sizes, inch
18:57<ben_goodger>es for monitor sizes
18:57<@Rubidium>not to mention gallon != gallon
18:57<ben_goodger>miles per hour for speed limits
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>germany has defined 1 pound := 500g
18:57<ben_goodger>half-pints for beer
18:58<ben_goodger>et cetera. it goes on and on
18:58-!-xahodo [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
18:59<Eddi|zuHause3>half-pints? that's like... nothing...
18:59<ben_goodger>although the "pint of milk" is now 568ml ℮ _and_ 1 pint ℮
18:59<ben_goodger>it's maddening
18:59<ben_goodger>stones and pounds for body weight
18:59<ben_goodger>yes, but it's quite a nice size for a small drink
19:00<ben_goodger>it's a little smaller than a 33 cl drinks can
19:00<Eddi|zuHause3>ok, a "small beer" is 0,3l here
19:01<Tefad>33cl or 35cl?
19:01<ben_goodger>sounds about right
19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>or 0,2l in some "poor" western german areas :p
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19:01<ben_goodger>330 ml here, as we cannot understand the idea of cl
19:01<Tefad>12oz is standard in us, translates to 355ml
19:01<ben_goodger>yeah, we use a slightly different size
19:01<@Bjarni>I like how one pound of lead is heavier than one pound of gold
19:01<ben_goodger>Bjarni: it is not...
19:01<Tefad>Bjarni: hahaha troy weight is screwy
19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>drinking cans are 0,33l
19:01<ben_goodger>oh, troy weight
19:01<Tefad>ben_goodger: it is.
19:01<Eddi|zuHause3>three of which make a liter [roughly]
19:02<@Bjarni>because gold is valuable metal it use it's own old fashioned scale that's 75% of the normal scale
19:02<Tefad>but a pound of feathers weighs the same as a pound of nails
19:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i have never seen gold measured in pounds
19:02<Tefad>however the feathers have higher aerodynamic drag and resist gravity in an atmosphere
19:02<@Bjarni>I would prefer to fall on a pound of feathers rather than a pound of nails
19:02<Eddi|zuHause3>occasionally i heard of "fine ounces of gold"
19:03<Eddi|zuHause3>but i never actually understood what that means ;)
19:03<ben_goodger>an ounce is 1/16 pounds, for some reason
19:04<ben_goodger>stupid base 16 system
19:04<@Bjarni>base 16 systems are useless :P
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19:05<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't really understand this either, most other factors are based on the babylonian base 60 system
19:05<Eddi|zuHause3>(today noticeable in time and angles)
19:06<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause3: yes, that's another thing that really must die
19:06<ben_goodger>radian ftw
19:06<@Bjarni>we most often use a 10 based system because we have 10 fingers
19:06<Eddi|zuHause3>that looks like ascii
19:06<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause3: indeed it is...
19:06<ben_goodger>in base 16
19:06<@Bjarni>so why don't they use an 8 based system in Duckburg?
19:06<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: Indeed. There's 60cm in 2 foot. ;)
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause3>Prof_Frink: that's not an exact number :p
19:07<@Bjarni>I mean Disney draw all the figures with 4 fingers on each hand
19:07<@Bjarni>I think there are 5280 feet on a mile
19:07<@Bjarni>or something like that
19:07<ben_goodger>if we'd not evolved with five fingers we'd be better off
19:07<ben_goodger>using base 8 would have made the discovery of binary logic much, much faster
19:07<Prof_Frink>@calc 1760*3
19:07<@DorpsGek>Prof_Frink: 5280
19:07<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: yes.
19:07<@Bjarni>I mean a number that's totally off compared to the 10 based system
19:08<Eddi|zuHause3>well, most factors are divisors of 60, most commonly 12
19:08<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: why 1760?
19:08<Eddi|zuHause3>like 12 inches in a foot
19:08<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: yards in a mile
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19:09<ben_goodger>it's 1/12:1:3:220:8
19:09<ben_goodger>as opposed to 1/10:10:100:1000 which is much nicer.
19:09<ben_goodger>of course, the kilogram is interesting
19:09<Eddi|zuHause3>whoever came up with the number "220"
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19:09<ben_goodger>Eddi|zuHause3: don't know, it's the ratio of furlongs to yards
19:09<Prof_Frink>ben_goodger: It's 1/1000 and lots of them.
19:10<ben_goodger>there's probably another one embedded
19:10<@Bjarni><EddizuHause3> whoever came up with the number "220" <-- why do we use 220V in our power supply?
19:10<@Bjarni>(which is now changed to 230V)
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19:10<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Because you can't count up to 240.
19:10<Prof_Frink>(which is now changed to 230V)
19:10<ben_goodger>Bjarni: it was changed to 230 from 240
19:10<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: that is most likely a "we just power up this machine and then use whatever it outputs as standard"
19:11<Prof_Frink>Whereas in Merkia it's about 120V
19:11<@Bjarni>maybe they made a standard out of 230V because it was close enough to both 220V and 240V
19:11<Prof_Frink>Which is one reason the tea sucks
19:11<@Bjarni>we used to use 220V
19:11<Vikthor>ben_goodger: where? Here it was changed form 220 to 230 in the 90's
19:11<Prof_Frink>Kettles take a year and a half to boil
19:11<ben_goodger>good old tesla.
19:11<ben_goodger>north america uses 110V, possibly the same reason
19:11<ben_goodger>Vikthor: great britain, I believe
19:12<Eddi|zuHause3>but actually, i remember talk from people who were around when they switched from 110 to 220 in germany
19:12<@Bjarni>is 230V some EU idea?
19:12<ben_goodger>Bjarni: probably
19:12<Eddi|zuHause3>probably the average between 220 and 240 :p
19:12<Vikthor>110V was used because formerly insufiecient isolation was availble
19:12<Prof_Frink>Bloody euros, comin' along, stealing our volts...
19:12<ben_goodger>being able to buy a lamp in france and plug it in in slovakia is quite useful
19:13<ben_goodger>though you need to rewire the plug about fifty times
19:13<ben_goodger>Prof_Frink: indeed
19:13<ben_goodger>they don't hate the EU as much as they hate the poles, though
19:13<Prof_Frink>No, you just need a sequence of fifty adapters plugged into each other
19:13<Vikthor>ben_goodger: if it it class 2(or so) insulation they you dont have to
19:13<@Bjarni>I have seen a transformer that worked efficiently with 80-265V input
19:13<ben_goodger>Vikthor: you're telling me that slovakia uses french plugs?
19:13<@Bjarni>47-63 Hz
19:14<ben_goodger>spain doesn't, neither do sweden. great britain have our very own plugs
19:14<Eddi|zuHause3>as far as i have seen, german plugs are designed to also fit into czech jacks
19:14<Vikthor>ben_goodger: no, but if you use only two pins and don't have need for PE, than it's OK
19:14<ben_goodger>so they use the same shape then
19:15<@Bjarni>Some Danish company invented their own plugs and they got approved as safe enough for selling
19:15<ben_goodger>I didn't know that.
19:15<Vikthor>but only for the two pins, not the third one, which is somtimes needed
19:15<ben_goodger>great britain has a lovely system where you can electrocute yourself while plugging them in if you try hard
19:15<@Bjarni>now whenever somebody wants to sell plugs they need to be approved and the ministry don't know about electricity safety so they ask some professionals
19:15<ben_goodger>but they do have switches on the sockets. I cannot work out why the europeans and americans haven't figured that out
19:16<@Bjarni>and naturally they claim everything to be unsafe except their own plugs >_<
19:16<Prof_Frink>Indeed. Stops the electrickery leaking out when there's nothing plugged in.
19:16<ben_goodger>no, stops the flow of current to whatever is connected to the socket
19:16<ben_goodger>be it a fork or a malfunctioning vacuum cleaner.
19:17<Prof_Frink>But doesn't stop you electrocuting yourself with a ren when very bored.
19:17<ben_goodger>the plugs also _all_ have 3A fuses
19:17<@Bjarni>I don't get why the switches were removed from Danish power outlets a few years ago
19:17<ben_goodger>no, but it goes some way to preventing it
19:17<Vikthor>that's pitty what if I need more than 3A?
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19:17<ben_goodger>then the plug will come with a 13A fuse instead
19:18<@Bjarni>here we aren't allowed to use more than 10A fuses
19:18<Prof_Frink>ben_goodger: Yes. I got creative with jamming a pencil in the little gate the earth pin's meant to push down.
19:18<@Bjarni>if you need more then you need a custom high power design
19:18<Vikthor>because i believe you can have as much as 25A from czech plug
19:19<ben_goodger>Prof_Frink: indeed...
19:19<ben_goodger>difficult though
19:19<ben_goodger>you certainly can't stick a fork in it to electrocute yourself unless you're really dedicated
19:20<Prof_Frink>It's have to be a big fork too
19:20<Prof_Frink>and have the middle tines removed
19:20<Prof_Frink>or bent back
19:20<Prof_Frink>Now, a penknife with two blades...
19:21<ben_goodger>you're overthinking again
19:21<Prof_Frink>My dad was underthinking.
19:21<Vikthor>1:21, time to go to sleep, good night
19:21<ben_goodger>good night, CET
19:21<Prof_Frink>"This socket's not connected ...BANG"
19:22<Vikthor>ben_goodger: CEST!
19:22<Prof_Frink>"Well, that will definitely have blown the fuse"
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19:22<Prof_Frink>In his defence, this was in a bar. Beer was likely involved.
19:23<ben_goodger>pints or 6dl?
19:24<Prof_Frink>Hurrah for Bombardier.
19:24<Prof_Frink>Bottled beer that comes in *pints*.
19:25<ben_goodger>I don't see why it can't come in 568 millilitre bottles
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20:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r13502 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix (r11212): drawing of zoomed out partial sprites could cause deadlocks or crashes
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21:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13503 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix(r13173)[FS#2073]: Wrong widget numbers & event handlers were assigned to the zoom in and out buttons in the scenario editor
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21:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13504 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: enumify some widgets for scenario editor. More work is required.
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 13 00:00:25 2008