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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-06-13

---Logopened Fri Jun 13 00:00:25 2008
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01:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r13505 /trunk/src/players.cpp:
01:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: clear the memory for the new AI during the loading of a savegame so it
01:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: does not try to execute commands generated in a different savegame, which could
01:50<CIA-3>OpenTTD: be resulting in the AI trying to give orders to stations that do not exist.
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03:01<planetmaker>good morning
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05:39<Wuisch>Good morning
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05:51<@peter1138>something like that
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06:28<Wuisch>told my father to press ctrl alt delete.
06:29<Wuisch>offcourse he presses them seperately
06:30<ln>where was he sailing to?
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06:31<Wuisch>ofcourse*
06:31<ln>what about space?
06:31<@peter1138>it's two words, yes.,
06:34<Wuisch>off course ?
06:34<Wuisch>of course?
06:34<@peter1138>of course not
06:34<Wuisch>now yer just making stuff up!
06:34<Wuisch>i'm on to you >_>
06:34<ln>of course of course.
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06:35<Wuisch>a horse is a horse of course?
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06:37<Wuisch>the english language it confuses us
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06:41<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm off course
06:42<Wuisch>turn 15 Degree's to port
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06:52<@peter1138>degrees
06:56<Eddi|zuHause2>no, i don't attend any courses right now ;)
07:02<iAN_>good morning to every single one!
07:03<iAN_>happy friday everyone!
07:03<iAN_>anyone here from southwest Germany?
07:07<Eddi|zuHause2>no.
07:07<Eddi|zuHause2>nobody lives in southwest germany...
07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>they speak a horrible dialect
07:33<iAN_>:-(
07:35<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: german?
07:36<Eddi|zuHause2>viewing from your side maybe :p
07:37<Ammler>:-)
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07:46<thejanitor>Me and my friend are playing over the net and he keeps on getting the desync error and being kicked
07:46<thejanitor>we are using a non patched version
07:49<Vikthor>might be nice to tell which version it is ;)
07:50<Vikthor>And if you use any NewGRF so should tell us too
07:51<thejanitor>0.6.1
07:51<thejanitor>do newGRFs cause desyncs as well?
07:51<thejanitor>i've got 5 or so
07:52<thejanitor>stolen trees / GRVTS set / Generic Tram Set / Aviators Aircraft
07:54<Ammler>thejanitor: not that we know of
07:54<Ammler>we play witth about 30 NewGRFs and has no desyncs :-)
07:55<Ammler>have
07:55<thejanitor>heh
07:55<Ammler>where did you get the binaries?
07:56<Ammler>can you reproduce the desync?
07:57<thejanitor>nah its seemlying random
07:57<thejanitor>he desynced 3 times in a row 30 minutes aog and hasnt desycned again
08:01<thejanitor>how do you get desert towns to grow? the town has food/water and passendgers and hasnt grown ever, its been a good 10 years since it has been linked up
08:02<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe the station is not close enough to the town center?
08:05<thejanitor>do they all need to be close?
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08:11<@peter1138>fairly
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08:14<Eddi|zuHause2>there should be an indicator in the town window whether the town gets food and water
08:15<@peter1138>isn't there?
08:15<@peter1138>hmm, maybe that value's internal
08:15<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never seen it ingame
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08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>but i don't play arctic or tropic very often ;)
08:16<Sacro>he plays toyland
08:16<@peter1138>ah, passengers and mail is shown
08:16<Pikka>passengers and mail produced is shown
08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>only the generated ones
08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>not delivered
08:17<Pikka>TTDP has "Cargo accepted last month at all stations: Passengers: Mail: Goods: Food: Water:" ;)
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08:18<@peter1138>hmm, don't think ottd ever cares about goods
08:19<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe newgrfs do ;)
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08:20<@peter1138>only for subsidies
08:20<dragonhorseboy>hey
08:21<dragonhorseboy>just wondering if anyone may know but I thought I recall some larger steam locomotives had like something on the rear drive axle that let it go sideway just a bit to fit on tighter curves?
08:22<@peter1138>shouldn't think so
08:22<@peter1138>at an angle does not mean sideways, ever
08:22<@peter1138>*either
08:23<@peter1138>i guess the usual arrangement would be to only have flanges on the outer wheels
08:23<@peter1138>but i know nothing
08:24<dragonhorseboy>hm thanks nevertheless
08:24<dragonhorseboy>how're you if you don't mind me asking anyhow? ;)
08:25<Eddi|zuHause2>middle axles often could move sidewards a few mm
08:26<Eddi|zuHause2>first and last axles could go at an angle
08:26<Eddi|zuHause2>sometimes the first two
08:26<Eddi|zuHause2>1'C1' and 2'C1' were common axle schemes
08:27<Eddi|zuHause2>especially for express passenger engines
08:27<dragonhorseboy>heh thanks...was sure it wasn't just my memory from reading various steam locomotive stories (most of them in magazines)
08:27<Eddi|zuHause2>freight engines had axle schemes like D or even E
08:28<Pikka>peter: any plans to copy the ttdp behaviour where articulated vehicle parts use the livery override of the first vehicle in the articulate, rather than the first vehicle in the consist? :)
08:29<Eddi|zuHause2>i am still against this concept of livery overrides
08:29<@peter1138>that should already happen, but i guess it doesn't as you asked
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08:30<Pikka>indeed it does not...
08:30<Pikka>how can you be "against" it, Eddi?
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08:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i am against relying on the fact that there will always be a "front engine" present
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08:32<Eddi|zuHause2>wagons do not change colour just because you switch the engine
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08:33<Pikka>so we should use a seperate vehicle ID for every single possible vehicle appearance we want to use, and then disallow coupling of inappropriate ones?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause2>no, there still are refits
08:35<Pikka>so we should require people to click a few extra buttons every time they build a train, for no real purpose?
08:37<Eddi|zuHause2><déjà vu>no, you could make "virgin" wagons automatically take a refit upon connecting for the first time, and then have that persist</déjà vu>
08:37<Pikka>so you're not actually "against" livery overrides?
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08:38-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:38<Eddi|zuHause2>let's say, i am "against" the current implementation and usage of the feature
08:38<dragonhorseboy>hey glx
08:39<Eddi|zuHause2>because, like i previously said, there might not be a "front engine" to rely on in the future
08:39<Pikka>it should be quite possible to code a grf that has the behaviour your after
08:39<Pikka>*you're
08:39<Eddi|zuHause2>but the presence of this feature prevents development in that direction
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08:42<Noldo>there has to be atleast one engine in a train?
08:44<yorick>for it to run, yes
08:45<Pikka>I expect var2 type 82/86/8A is more of a hinderance than livery override 3.
08:46<Pikka>and I think you might be fighting a losing battle trying to convince grf authors to stop using features because one day someone might possibly want to change how they work. :)
08:47<Noldo>aren't there wagons that provide power to move the train?
08:50<@peter1138>actually that feature should be dropped, imho
08:50<yorick>those are seen as engines, I think
08:50<@peter1138>cb36 is more useful
08:50<yorick>or should be seen as ~
08:50<@peter1138>also there was a bug in it which dbsetxl uses
08:50<Pikka>the powered wagons feature, peter?
08:50<@peter1138>so dbsetxl's ice3 is overpowered
08:50<@peter1138>yes
08:51<Pikka>I never liked it, and never used it... like you said, we now have cb36. :) but it should be kept for backwards compatibility I guess.
08:51<Noldo>what is cb36?
08:51<@peter1138>the documentation on it was wrong for a long time
08:51<@peter1138>it said 0x40 is unpowered, which is not true
08:51<Pikka>callback 36, Noldo... changing vehicle properties (speed, power, cost etc)
08:51<@peter1138>i don't know if MB has noticed, he
08:54<Noldo>\o/ managed to find something I was looking for from the specs
08:54<Pikka>huzzah!
08:55<Noldo>why are callbacks under action2 ?
08:56<@peter1138>because a (var)action2 chain is needed to use them
08:57<Noldo>and what is 82/84/8A pikka mentioned earlier?
08:58<Pikka>type 82/84/8A var2s read data from the "related object" (which, for train vehicles, is the lead locomotive)
08:58<Pikka>while 81/83/89 reads data from the vehicle itself
08:59<Pikka>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VariationalAction2
08:59<yorick>@calc 157-146
08:59<@DorpsGek>yorick: 11
08:59<+glx>Noldo: callbacks are special action 2
09:02<Pikka>85 and 86, not 83 and 84...
09:02<Pikka>but you know what I meant
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09:03<Noldo>it's like an address that also tells the size of the returned value
09:03<Pikka>yes
09:04<Noldo>is it used with something that tells what kind of information you are fetching?
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09:04<Pikka>the variable, which is the next byte in the var2
09:06<Pikka>eg 81 C4 = "year this vehicle was built", 82 F2 = "refit cycle of the lead locomotive"
09:08<@peter1138>Pikka: do you know if "related object" is changed for articulated parts? heh
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09:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13506 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
09:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: like AIVehicle, AIStation, .. restrict AISign to only your own signs
09:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Remove [API CHANGE]: the change above makes AISign::GetOwner() obsolete, and is therefor removed
09:09<@peter1138>hmm, it's not in open
09:09<@peter1138>but there is that relative scope thing now
09:09<Pikka>I don't know, peter
09:11<Pikka>I don't think I've ever relied on it, if it is. I mean, a lot of things you might want to know you can assume will be the same for all parts of an articulated vehicle (eg, date built...)
09:15<@peter1138>mmmhmm
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09:15<fjb>Hello
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>well, obviously these variables are affected, too
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09:24<dragonhorseboy>re steam locomotives again - are pony axles usually only for guiding and not much of weight carrying at all? (compared to the trailing axles having to take the firebox/cab/etc)
09:28<Eddi|zuHause2>usually, you want to have most weight on the driven axles, for tractive effort
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09:28<Eddi|zuHause2>but most tracks have also a limit for axle weight
09:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13507 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12856): first engine change should've been moved too
09:29<Eddi|zuHause2>which may differ when it is a main or a side railway
09:29<dih>apparently there was a 'yellow state' (for signals) in old (4.x) versions of OpenTTD
09:29<dih>what happend to that?
09:29<dih>or is it no longer needed?
09:29<@peter1138>no there wasn't
09:29<Ammler>dih: well, not yellow state
09:29<Noldo>there was a patch
09:29<Eddi|zuHause2>that was a patch
09:30<Ammler>just waiting trains didn't accelrating immediatly on green signals.
09:30<Ammler>so driving trains on the other branch had prio. How was that called?
09:31<Sacro>dih: we're only up to 0.6
09:31<Sacro>4.0 is a long way off
09:32<dih>.4.x
09:32<dih>:-D
09:32<Ammler>not at #openttdcoop, we celerbraing our 100. game with 0.4.5 :-)
09:33<@peter1138>crazy
09:33<Ammler>just to remember what we all get from you the last 2-3 year.
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09:34*fjb even can't imagine to play without YAPP anymore.
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09:37<dragonhorseboy>ammler really -- running non-nightly 0.4.5 now?
09:38<@peter1138>Ammler, i don't even remember what is and isn't in it
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09:39<Ammler>1. bridges over a lot of things, 2. autoslope/foundations, 3. improved chat, 4. NewGRF support in general, what else?
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09:40<Ammler>but it was already quite stable
09:42<planetmaker>autosignal is missing, too
09:43-!-Guest323 was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [bye bye me]
09:43<Boyinblue0>also there is a problem with the screen resolution as in the minimize buttons do not work sometimes
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09:44*SpComb yawns
09:46<dragonhorseboy>hmm *might have to check out the server if I feel like it*
09:47<dih>Ammler: sure about autoslope? foundations maybe! but autoslope?
09:48*dih is aware of some missing console stuff in .4
09:48<dih>+ some missing acceleration patches
09:49<Eddi|zuHause2>autoslope was new in 0.6
09:49<SpComb>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8111&start=60 <-- why has this turned into a debate on nuclear energy?
09:49<Eddi|zuHause2>building on steep foundations was probably in 0.5, not sure
09:50<@peter1138>well
09:50<@peter1138>ancient history :)
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09:52<dragonhorseboy>:p
09:52<dragonhorseboy>hm didn't one of you have like a zillion different versions of openttd folders?
09:53<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't everyone here?
09:53<Skidd13>dragonhorseboy: http://nightly.openttd.org/win32/ <- That one should be huge :D
09:53<dragonhorseboy>eddi so do you have all versions installed down to the first early few ones? ;)
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09:55<Eddi|zuHause2>how about you ask the question that _REALLY_ interests you?
09:55<dih>dragonhorseboy: svn up -r <rev> simply gets what you want :-P
09:56<dragonhorseboy>dih lol
09:56<dih>actually not that funny i dont think :-P
09:56<dragonhorseboy>well I only have two openttd folders aside to one ttdx and one ttdp ones ^-^
09:56*dih has about 6
09:56<yorick>just compiling them when you need them works for me
09:56*yorick looks into 2gb openttd archive
09:57<dragonhorseboy>heh
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09:57<yorick>which is cleaned up some time ago
09:58<yorick>if I want to play a singleplayergame, I usually compile some patches together, and play with that version
09:58<yorick>but openttd just updates too quickly :)
09:58<yorick>I have to go now, bye!
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09:59*dih smiles
09:59*dragonhorseboy doesn't think I have ever updated for quite some time (except for certain grfs themself especially industry station v0.6.3 etc)
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10:02<fjb>peter1138: Did you update your bridges over low parts of stations and other things patch?
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10:03<@peter1138>no
10:03<fjb>I tried it some months ago (just before the 0.6 branch) and I did get it working. I guess my chances will not be higher now.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause2>missing "not"?
10:05<Eddi|zuHause2>these sentences do not make sense
10:05<dragonhorseboy>heh
10:07<fjb>Oh, yes, thank you Eddi|zuHause2.
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10:37<@peter1138>hm
10:38<fjb>Hm?
10:38<Pikka>hm!
10:38-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
10:38<fjb>H hm...
10:41<Eddi|zuHause2>is that an Ook! dialect?
10:41<Pikka>good ol' DMM
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10:45<@peter1138>hmm so
10:45<@peter1138>for articulated parts
10:47<Pikka>si?
10:47<@peter1138>indeed
10:49<Ammler>hmm
10:49<@peter1138>Ammler will do it
10:50<Ammler>well then :-)
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10:53<@peter1138>have you done it yet?
10:53-!-Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
10:53<@peter1138>i chose horses
10:53<Eddi|zuHause2>are we there yet?
10:54<Prof_Frink>I love horses, best of all the animals
10:54<@peter1138>we're no here
10:55<@Belugas>you don't know jesus
10:56<@peter1138>yes! i am a long way from home
10:57<@Belugas>I know you are but what am i?
10:58<@peter1138>rage: man
10:58<@Belugas>Take me somewhere nice
11:00<@peter1138>a place for parks
11:00*Prof_Frink takes Belugas to the carp ark
11:00<@Belugas>travel is dangerous
11:01<@peter1138>stop coming to my house
11:02<Eddi|zuHause2>sorry, i lost you...
11:02<Pikka>carp ark? a ship for fish?
11:03<@Belugas>you are the winner ;) I give up!
11:03<@peter1138>may nothing but happiness come through your door
11:03<Pikka>but what of articulated parts?
11:04<@peter1138>articulated carparks
11:04<Pikka>him too
11:04<@peter1138>oh! how the dogs stack up
11:04*Belugas cries! Don't even have those ones!
11:05<@Belugas>ho... wait... i DO!
11:05<@peter1138>good :D
11:06<@Belugas>cody's time >:)
11:07<@Belugas>or choky?
11:07<@Belugas>i'll choke
11:07<@Belugas>hem...
11:07<@Belugas>chocky
11:07<@Belugas>ueah
11:08<Pikka>entertaining though this is...
11:11<Touqen>pocky?
11:11<planetmaker>chocolate :)
11:18<Ammler>Germans run the whole day a TiPP server without any crash...
11:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13508 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r7733): incorrect usage of strtoul
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11:23<@peter1138>Ammler, does that mean it should all be committed?
11:24<Pikka>what's a TiPP?
11:26<@Belugas>dunno, honestly
11:26<einKarl>an intergrated Version, with Yapp and infrastructure sharing
11:27<einKarl>look at forum
11:27<Ammler>peter1138: yeah :P
11:27<Ammler>Pikka: Tiberius Patch Pack
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11:28<einKarl>look here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37938
11:30<Pikka>how rare
11:31-!-Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-169-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg]
11:31<einKarl>the rare part is, that the combined patches work in networkgame since a few hours ;)
11:32<einKarl>without desync, lagg and co
11:33<@peter1138>yet another integrated build
11:34<stillunknown>yet another dead end
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11:34<Ammler>well, they are a good replacement to MiniIN
11:35<@peter1138>or according to all the openttd detractors, yet another lot of savegames that don't work in trunk and therefore prove that openttd is crap
11:36<stillunknown>in reality they aren't openttd savegames.
11:36<Ammler>save compatibility is crap, indeed.
11:36<@peter1138>and not our (the devs) job
11:37<Ammler>agreed
11:37<Ammler>but sadly patches don't think about too
11:37<Ammler>I don't think, it would be that hard.
11:39<@peter1138>don't you?
11:39<@peter1138>did you try it?
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11:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r13509 /branches/noai/ (24 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13472:13508.
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11:57<Ammler># italia, italia
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12:16<fjb>It is great that the TiPP server runs without desyncs. But I would not like all that patches in trunk. But it shows how mature most of the patches are. YAPP and infrstructure sharing would be my favourids for inclusion into trunk if there last problems are resolved.
12:19<@Belugas>i am so against infrastructures...
12:20<planetmaker>at the current stage it's far from anywhere completed IMO (if you're referring to the patch) ^
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12:22<fjb>I'm refering to the patch. Waht is the problem with the infrastructure? The ability to block opponents tracks?
12:22<Vikthor>fjb: First of all it's too big
12:22<planetmaker>Both with respect to code and game-wise.
12:23<fjb>I would not vote for an inclusion now.
12:23<Vikthor>And since there are quite some issues it will grow bigger
12:23<planetmaker>I think there migth be a two or even more-step approach:
12:24<fjb>There are other big things that got included. Big patches can get broken down.
12:24<@Belugas>lotsd of problems with it, from my point of view
12:24<planetmaker>allowing usage of infrastructure without payments and second is payments
12:24<TiberiusTeng>speaking of save game format ...
12:24<@Belugas>conceptually, it's a dirty stuff
12:24<fjb>But what is the general problem with the idea of infrastructure sharing?
12:24<TiberiusTeng>is there any future plans to make it more 'feature differences' proof ?
12:24<@Belugas>the game has always been each on his corner
12:24<@Belugas>now, pooff.
12:25<@Belugas>no more
12:25<fjb>Raods are always shared, also canals.
12:25<@Belugas>so, all the checks for ownership and rights and all that needs to be reviewed and accomodate
12:25<@Belugas>d
12:25<fjb>Roads
12:25<@Belugas>towns do not build railtrack :P
12:26<fjb>Towns do not build canals. :P
12:26<Vikthor>Belugas: Well that's what the patch does, inserts various checks if that operation can be done
12:26<@Belugas>water is for everyone :P :P
12:27<TiberiusTeng>or ... I guess, patches should handle their own 'chunk' types instead of modifying current ones?
12:27<fjb>Tell that our local water works...
12:27*Belugas nods at TiberiusTeng
12:27<planetmaker>Yeah, all checks are agains (owner || sharing allowed) so to say
12:27<TiberiusTeng>gotcha.
12:27<@Belugas>modifying trunk chunks leads to incompatibility right at the start
12:28<TiberiusTeng>so it IS using an scalable format now, but need some documentation/tutorial/notice about 'using' it I think ...
12:28<@Belugas>?
12:28-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d000488.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
12:29<Touqen>gimmie a cookie
12:29<planetmaker>didn't get you, TiberiusTeng
12:30<@Belugas>as soon as you open the door to shared tracks, you open the door to excess, cheats, bad behaviours and stupid requests. For me, it's a Pandora Box that should not be opened at all
12:30<@Belugas>just like subsidiaries stuff
12:30<@Belugas>time for lunch
12:30<planetmaker>hm... how do you cheat with shared tracks?
12:31<planetmaker>Enjoy your meal :)
12:31<Touqen>planetmaker: park your train on someone else's mainline
12:31<planetmaker>Touqen: that's one of the points: allow the _track owner_ command the trains.
12:31<planetmaker>and probably the train owner
12:31<Touqen>planetmaker: It's still problematic .
12:32<planetmaker>yes. But then there's the setting which disallows usage of your tracks :)
12:32-!-wok [~wok@93.96.7.133] has joined #openttd
12:32<TiberiusTeng>I'm now trying to figure out what those flag means, by reading source code ...
12:32<wok>ohai guys.. how do I unban clients from the server?
12:32<Touqen>If you pick a particularly dense section of track to block, it might be a while before the owner notices that his mainline is blocked and now he's got a backup of monumental proportions
12:32<planetmaker>Though I don't know what happens, if you stop your train and then the other one disallows usage
12:32<@Belugas>[12:28] <planetmaker> hm... how do you cheat with shared tracks? <-- well... i do not want to find out, nor to give the opportunity to find out either
12:32<planetmaker>hehe :) ^
12:32<TiberiusTeng>Understanding the SaveGame Handler < hasn't written yet :p
12:33<@Belugas>houch...
12:33<@Belugas>right
12:33<@Belugas>big beast
12:33<Vikthor>Belugas: every new addition has potential for cheats
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12:33<ZsoL>hello peepz :-)
12:33-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|afk
12:34<TiberiusTeng>and it's passing data with _sl all around ... ugh.
12:34<ZsoL>Has anybody done a 2way feed service before?
12:34<planetmaker>On the other hand the cheat possibility is low, if you have the possibility to disallow usage of your infrastructure.
12:35<planetmaker>Tracks need connections. Just don't leave empty connections.
12:35<@Belugas>Vikthor, it's why it's a duty to balance the yeas and the nos to avoid the most prone to disaster ones
12:35<fjb>Level crossings and the ability to buy land also tend to be used as cheats...
12:35<ZsoL>I'll try to be more specific
12:35<TiberiusTeng>and for example ... I can't quite understand the difference between CH_ARRAY and CH_SPARSE_ARRAY
12:36<planetmaker>ZsoL: you cannot use transfer of the same cargo in two directions.
12:36<ZsoL>:/
12:36<planetmaker>you then might pick up the cargo which you just delivered there
12:36<ZsoL>yes
12:36<ZsoL>thats exactly my problem
12:36<TiberiusTeng>(well I can guess by the name ...)
12:36<planetmaker>no way around except two stations.
12:36<ZsoL>no intention of implementing it?
12:37<@Belugas>not at all
12:37<ZsoL>okay
12:37<ZsoL>thanks for the help :-)
12:37<planetmaker>np
12:37<ZsoL>cheers, have a nice day
12:38<frosch123>hint: seconding belugas might cause op-ing
12:38-!-ZsoL [zsol@login01.caesar.elte.hu] has quit []
12:38<wok>hey, i had to ban a client on a server, how do i go about unbanning him?
12:38<planetmaker>:)
12:38<@Belugas>saying sorry, for a first...
12:39<planetmaker>hm... do I have reason to be sorry? Hm... :)
12:39*planetmaker wonders whether I now have
12:40-!-mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by Belugas
12:40<planetmaker>lol :)
12:44<@frosch123>Belugas knows how to drill dogs :p
12:44<@Belugas>meeuunnn non
12:45<@Belugas>or rather
12:45<@Belugas>naaaaa
12:45<@Belugas>by the way...
12:45<@Belugas>the infr strucure stuff...
12:45<@Belugas>it might be a tiny little better
12:45<@Belugas>if ever there was a feature that would allow the player to refuse sharing a portin of tracks
12:45<@Belugas>just an idea
12:46<@Belugas>because, as in **** moment of concentration **** R E A L L I F E **** (that was hard to write...) not all the network is usable by other companies
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12:47<Vikthor>Belugas: Yes, that was already thought of, I think that should be better handled by programmable signals/waypoints or something like that
12:47<Vikthor>along with limiting acces on other criterions than vehicle owner
12:47<@Belugas>whatever the means. it's the feature that is required
12:48<planetmaker>which indeed would be very handy.
12:48<planetmaker>"you may use my shitty coal train track - but stay off my shiny shinkansen tracks" :D
12:49<@Belugas>something like taht, yes
12:50<@frosch123>infrastructure sharing would also balance the game, as you could also crash opponents' trains instead of only road vehicles
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12:50<@Belugas>lol
12:50<@Belugas>good one :D
12:50<planetmaker>hehe. Nice balancing :)
12:50<TiberiusTeng>I don't think it's balancing at all :p
12:51<TiberiusTeng>but infrastructure sharing is really a plus for sure
12:51<@Belugas>maybe, jusdts not sure in which direction :P
12:51<planetmaker>But I guess the issue of being able to crash a competitors train is unavoidable by ANY solution to track sharing
12:52<@Belugas>ho.. it's avoidable... forget the collision tests!
12:52<@Belugas>ghost trains
12:52<planetmaker>as long as you can modify signals, you can play with the path finders.
12:52<planetmaker>:) That'd be a feature for a 4th climate: ghost world
12:53<planetmaker>rewrite the palette to a murky gray-green and forget collisions :P
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12:57<@Belugas>nice... see waht you did? skidd13 is pissed off and went away!
12:58<fjb>Is he afraid of ghosts?
12:59<@frosch123># ghostbusters!
13:00<Prof_Frink>Goatbusters.
13:01<Touqen>Stay Puft!
13:06*planetmaker will go eat something 100% ghost free now
13:06<Prof_Frink>Toast!
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13:08<Wolf01>hello
13:12-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
13:13<Touqen>Peanut Butter and Marshmallow Fluff sandwiches!
13:18<dih>could IS have a patch option so that server admins could chose if to allow it or not?
13:18<dih>and a ranking system per companies shared tracks
13:19<dih>i.e. number of company own trains passed this track, number of foreign trains, number of own train crashes, number of foreightn train crashes
13:19<dih>then people can judge themselves weather to use it or not :-P
13:20<dih>nice thing would be 'depot sharing'
13:20<dih>let the foreign trains enter your tracks, force the trains into a depot and sell :-D
13:21<Touqen>:/
13:21<Touqen>Can't sell what you don't own. That'd be theivery.
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13:22<dih>and why can i not sell what is on my tracks?
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13:27<fjb>Yeah, I sell everybody who enters my property.
13:27<planetmaker>dih: IS has MANY patch options and is configurable to dis/allow it. Allow indiviual fees or admin dictated ones..,
13:28<dih>uh
13:28<dih>NICE
13:28*dih has never played with IS before
13:28<planetmaker>it's infrastructure sharing. so also depots, airports, docks, stations.
13:28<planetmaker>you get a bonus, if people buy in your depot :P
13:29<planetmaker>but it has not "I charge you x and him y per track tile"
13:29<dih>yeah, but i can muck up people's trains whilst they are on my network
13:29<planetmaker>but for sure you can only sell what you own.
13:30<dih>how boring :-P
13:30<planetmaker>dih: yes, you can.
13:30<dih>just said i can!
13:32<Ammler># italia, italia
13:32<dih># swiss soccer playing turkey :-D
13:32<planetmaker>whew. I'm so happy I'm already home. It just started raining like hell...
13:32-!-Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
13:33<Ammler>I posted a request to IS, we need for wwottgd: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=699889#p699889
13:33<planetmaker>I've seen that :)
13:34<planetmaker>Any volunteers?
13:34<Ammler>I also don't think the programmable signals are ready until then, so we should have a 2. hack, like we had on our 1.
13:34<@Belugas>ho dear god no!
13:35<@Belugas>hackish khebab!
13:35<Ammler>so waypoints are only passable by the owner.
13:35<planetmaker>What kind of hack, Ammler?
13:35<dih>wwottdgd is one big one :-D
13:36<dih>hello Belugas ;-)
13:36<Ammler>:-)
13:36<planetmaker>^that for sure, especially thanks to your extensions :P
13:36*Belugas hides away, been noticed by dih
13:36<dih>who's?
13:36<planetmaker>:) yours, dih. But it wouldn't be wwottdgd without :)
13:36*Belugas , from afar, waves at dih and jumps in his hole!
13:36<planetmaker>sorry, dih, I'm rude :)
13:37<@Belugas>dih, is he rude? Should I kick him?
13:37<dih>Ammler: bad idea (your patch thing)
13:37<dih>nobody should be allowed to start stop trains :-D
13:37<Ammler>:-)
13:38<planetmaker>but, dih, any chance for an update? Or do you think it's not required to be updated?
13:38<Ammler>only sending to depot
13:38*dih gets a lawn mower, connects a hose to the exhaust pipe of it, and shoves the other end down Belugas' hole.
13:38<planetmaker>:S ^
13:38<dih>pm: i have time after wednesday
13:38<dih>he asked for it, c'mon :-P
13:38<@Belugas>and guess what? You're only throwing water in the ocean!
13:38<@Belugas>NICE!
13:39<@Belugas>ice hole... ever heard of it??
13:39<dih>nope
13:39<dih>only if prefixed with an 'n'
13:39<planetmaker>:D
13:39<@Belugas>or an 'ASS' ?
13:40<dih>ASSice hole??
13:40<@Belugas>man... are we flying high...
13:40<planetmaker>ties the niveau with a rope to the table in order to avoid it fleeing completely
13:40*dih spreads his arms and flaps
13:40<@Belugas>ass ice ... twist the mouth long enough, it will sound alike!
13:41*dih does not want to know the Belugas' link between ass and ice
13:41<dih>oh
13:41<dih>ice in the shape of donkeys?
13:41<@Belugas>????
13:41<dih>ass = donkey
13:41<@Belugas>pronounciation...
13:41<planetmaker>?
13:41<@Belugas>almost homonyms
13:42<@Belugas>i think that's what they calld in english...
13:42<@Belugas>baaaa.. never mind
13:42<planetmaker>hm... how do I stop minding? ;)
13:42<@Belugas>too subtle for you, i guess ;D
13:42<dih>never heard 'silly ass' from an older guy before?
13:42<dih>and with older i mean at least double _your_ age
13:43-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:43<@Belugas>prrrrrrrrt
13:43<planetmaker>dih: Dummarsch doesn't translate literally...
13:43<dih>:-D
13:43<dih>i like your reaction Belugas :-D
13:45-!-Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d04737e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:47-!-Frostregen [~sucks@92.50.80.240] has joined #openttd
13:52<Sacro>Belugas: ass != donkey
13:53<Sacro>hmm
13:53<@Belugas>?????
13:53<Sacro>seems they are the same
13:53<Sacro>equus asinus
13:53<dih>no kiddin!
13:53<dih>tu asinus
13:56-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
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14:13<planetmaker>can someone tell me where DoCommandP is defined or - even better - how I find that out myself quickly? a grep for "DoCommandP" will basically give me all files...
14:13<Roujin>command.*?
14:14<planetmaker>sounds just too reasonable. Yes :)
14:14<Roujin>command_func.h / command.cpp
14:15<planetmaker>Thx a lot
14:15<Roujin>np
14:15<fjb>What is the new conditional oder jump?
14:15<Roujin>select it, click on an existing order in your list, then you'll see
14:17<Roujin>basically it inserts an order that says "jump to order #x" if [variable] is below/above/equal to [value], where you can select stuff like loading percentage for the variable and specify the other stuff
14:17<fjb>Oh, nice.
14:18<Roujin>the if ... part should have been in the quotes as well of course ;)
14:18<Roujin>"jump to #x if ... "
14:19<fjb>Now I only have to find out how to use it.
14:25<fjb>Hm, ist it possible to sort the order list?
14:26<planetmaker>fjb: You can drag some orders
14:26<planetmaker>but IIRC not conditional jumps
14:26<@frosch123>Sorting the order list? Like first driving to stations starting by A, then B, ... ?
14:27<fjb>Resort it. And yes, ideed are some movable. Never knew that.
14:28-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:28-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
14:31<planetmaker>I also only found out by chance.
14:34-!-michi_cc [1635d7f2b1@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:34<yorick>why don't rivers have nice specific error messages? "Could not build canal"
14:35-!-skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A3C42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:35<@Belugas>can they have one?
14:35<yorick>why not?
14:36<@Belugas>can yuo find out if they can?
14:36<yorick>Ammler seems to succeed in it with his patch
14:36<@Belugas>seems != can
14:36<@Belugas>can he?
14:36<yorick>DoCommandP(end_tile, start_tile, 2, CcBuildCanal, CMD_BUILD_CANAL | CMD_MSG(STR_CANT_PLACE_RIVERS));
14:37<yorick>he can
14:37<yorick>he seems to can :)
14:37<Ammler>that patch was from Roujin, I wouldn't be able to make that
14:37<@Belugas>i would like to see the diff
14:38<Ammler>Belugas: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1884
14:38<planetmaker>any style errors are mine, I guess :P
14:39-!-michi_cc [166525b3e8@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd
14:39-!-mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ
14:42<@Belugas>mmh... how to extract only the message part...
14:42<@Belugas>because of course, we do not want to build rivers ingame, don't we?
14:43<yorick>...
14:43<yorick>three lines?
14:43<planetmaker>hm... don't we?
14:43<yorick>which kind of belugas are you today?
14:43<yorick>planetmaker, he means they don't
14:43<Ammler>Belugas: it would be nice
14:43<@Belugas>yeah right...
14:43<planetmaker>yorick: I understood that :)
14:44<yorick>+STR_CANT_PLACE_RIVERS :{WHITE}Can't place rivers here...
14:44<Ammler>at least until the livery rivers is implemented
14:44<yorick>- DoCommandP(end_tile, start_tile, 2, CcBuildCanal, CMD_BUILD_CANAL | CMD_MSG(STR_CANT_BUILD_CANALS));
14:44<yorick>+ DoCommandP(end_tile, start_tile, 2, CcBuildCanal, CMD_BUILD_CANAL | CMD_MSG(STR_CANT_PLACE_RIVERS));
14:44<Ammler>Belugas: it would be fair to use the whole patch :P
14:45<planetmaker>:)
14:45<@Belugas>ok, then, nothing will be in trunk
14:45<@Belugas>as it would be unfair
14:45<Ammler>:D
14:45*Belugas goes back in real life
14:46<yorick>in what?
14:48<yorick>buoys don't need an owner, do they?
14:49<@Belugas>yes they do
14:49<yorick>autoclean didn't clean them in 0.5, AFAIK
14:51*Belugas thinks that someone it is known and has been explained why
14:53<@Belugas>somehow
14:56<@Rubidium>other ships might be using the buoys
14:57-!-Mchl [~mchl@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
14:57<yorick>and how's that somehow?
14:57<Mchl>hello
14:57<yorick>hello
14:59<Mchl>what IRC client people are using for windowas these days?
15:00<@Belugas>dunno...
15:00<@Belugas>let's start a pool!
15:00<@Belugas>poll
15:00<Ammler>.
15:01*glx uses kvirc
15:01<Prof_Frink>IRC from Windows? Putty.
15:01*Belugas uses mIRC
15:01<Ammler>Chatzilla
15:01<planetmaker>^
15:02<Mchl>are you all satisfied with these?
15:02<@Belugas>never heard of "^"befre
15:02<yorick>I want to use Xchat, but can't compile it
15:02<Ammler>that should disqualify it...
15:02<planetmaker>hehe :). Mchl: mostly yes.
15:02-!-mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
15:02<@Belugas>i am, otherwise, i'd change it :)
15:03<Touqen>irssi ftw
15:03<Mchl>am asking, cause it seems I'll be less linux and more windows user in near future
15:03<Ammler>mIRC is $
15:03<Mchl>and last time I used IRC in winndows, PIRCH was still developed
15:03<Prof_Frink>Mchl: linux box, irssi, screen and putty.
15:04<Mchl>care to lend me a linux box? :P
15:04<Prof_Frink>Get an eeebox and stick it in a coupboard
15:04<yorick>Mchl, it also runs on windows
15:04<Ammler>Mchl: www.knoppix.org
15:05<yorick>I'd like to use a irssi proxy with bersirc, but the proxy won't run
15:05-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:05<Prof_Frink>The only irssi build I frond for Windows lacked things like perl support
15:05<yorick>they have an official one
15:06<Mchl>i don't think i need perl in IRC client
15:06<Prof_Frink>But you need perl for nickcolor.pl, keepnick.pl and screen_away.pl
15:06<Mchl>i see
15:08<yorick>Belugas, KVIrc looks interesting
15:08*Belugas remembers the good old days of BBS
15:08<Touqen>OOOLLLD
15:08<@Belugas>dunno, yorick.
15:08<@Belugas>i hate changing just for changing
15:08<Mchl>even I don't remember these days
15:09<@Belugas>hey... it was before Internet was so widely avaiable
15:09<Mchl>this I know
15:09<Mchl>I read a lot about BBS, never used one though
15:09<@Belugas>i even remember a friend who made it so we could hook in the internet through the bbs itself
15:09<@Belugas>pretty wild at the time
15:09*yorick UnixExtracts KVIrc
15:11-!-Zahl [~Zahl@p549F4081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
15:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13510 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: be a tiny bit more strict for AIAbstract.Valuate() (check the type of the first 2 params)
15:14-!-Mchl_ [~chatzilla@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
15:15<Mchl_>OMG... chatzilla look ugly
15:15-!-Mchl_ [~chatzilla@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
15:15<yorick>Ammler, http://bugs.openttd.org/?getfile=2994
15:16<yorick>it allows displaying the water toolbar in the scenario editor and could easily be modified to display the river button ingame
15:16<yorick>like 6 lines, methinks
15:17<Ammler>yorick: the patch for ingame rivers is already done.
15:17<Ammler>or doesn't it work anymore?
15:17<yorick>yes, it does
15:17<Ammler>but?
15:17<yorick>but this one involves aqueducts in the scenario editor
15:18<yorick>(and locks)
15:18<yorick>just thinking of them combined
15:19<Ammler>well, the patch we use isn't from me, I have no clue about :-)
15:19<planetmaker>keep them seperated. Doesn't hurt.
15:19<planetmaker>But both certainly are nice :)
15:19<planetmaker>small is beautiful wrt patches
15:20<Ammler>:-)
15:20<planetmaker>Ammler: I've got an IS running where the track owner ONLY may start / stop vehicles
15:20<planetmaker>Backdraw: you cannot start a train from a foreign depot either
15:21<Ammler>planetmaker: also foreign trains?
15:21<planetmaker>yes.
15:21<Ammler>planetmaker: thats ok
15:21<Ammler>well, thats even better :-)
15:21<Ammler>so you can use foreign depots only for service
15:21<planetmaker>:)
15:22<Ammler>if someone has a dedicated line, you can't just add yor own trains.
15:22<Roujin>what if you order your train to go to depot and it will go to a foreign one?
15:22<planetmaker>I'd guess, yes... checking...
15:22<Ammler>Roujin: ups
15:23-!-Mchl_ [~mchlpl@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
15:23<Ammler>well, then we need a hack for that too, trains should only be able to use foreign depots for service.
15:23<planetmaker>yes, it will use any
15:24<planetmaker>nearest available - as usual
15:24<planetmaker>actually it's a one-line patch/hack.
15:24<Ammler>if you send a train to depot, if will only go to your own depots, thats realistic isn't?
15:24-!-Mchl_ [~mchlpl@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd []
15:25<planetmaker>hm... maybe not well... desync :S
15:25-!-[1]Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d04737e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
15:26-!-Mchl_ [~mchlpl@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
15:26<[1]Roujin>my pc died :(
15:26-!-Mchl_ [~mchlpl@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
15:26<planetmaker>:( my ottd desynced. Is it comparable?
15:26<@Belugas>sincere condoleances, [1]Roujin
15:26<@Belugas>hope nothing of any value was on it
15:27<[1]Roujin>ah nono, sorry
15:27<[1]Roujin>not like this
15:29<[1]Roujin>it "only" bluescreened and rebooted.. should really send it to repair soon, I think there's something f**'ed up with the interiors :/
15:30-!-Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d04737e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:31-!-mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:31<planetmaker>either that or trojaned
15:31<+glx>memory or video problem
15:32-!-skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A3C42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:42<Pikka|afk>who wants a cookie?
15:42-!-Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka
15:43-!-mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
15:43<Mchl>Pikka: when it expires?
15:43-!-mucht_home is now known as Mucht
15:43-!-Buschi [~Deimodder@e180226130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
15:43<Pikka>Mchl: a cookie of awesomeness, not a cookie of browser
15:44<Pikka>I need to know.. how to get hold of random bits in a var2. :O
15:44<yorick>by eating a cookie
15:44<Pikka>I'm sure it's staring me right in the face but I can't find it.
15:44-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Like I said...Poef!]
15:44<Mchl>if so... I don;t want it... that's realm of secret knowledge keepers
15:45<Pikka>my secret knowledge bucket has a hole in it
15:46<Buschi>hi i found here http://wiki.openttd.org/ a nice map but they dont say witch grf files i need in the game i can play only singleplayer without the grf files is anywhere a pack with nearly all grfs?
15:47-!-Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
15:47<Pikka>you shouldn't *need* any grfs, Buschi. It's not like lomo. :P
15:47<planetmaker>what's the principle difference between _local_player and _current_player ?
15:48<Buschi>in single player the game warns me and than i can play in multiplayer he close instaed of warning
15:48<+glx>planetmaker: _local_player is always you
15:49<+glx>_current_player is the active one
15:49<planetmaker>hm... and _current_player is *someone*. What does 'active' mean^?
15:49<+glx>the one for whom DoCommand is done
15:49<Pikka>Buschi; in multiplayer, you need to have the same grfs as the server or it will desync you.
15:50<planetmaker>ah. ok. Thx, that helped - hopefully - a lot, glx
15:50<Ammler>Buschi: you don't need a map for Multiplayer
15:50<Ammler>the map will be downloaded from the server
15:51-!-UnderBuilder [~srverror@168.226.105.76] has joined #openttd
15:51<Buschi>i am the server if i play with my friend if i wand start wit the scenario TheNetherland he says i dont have the grfs and he bring me back to main menu
15:52-!-skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A66BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd []
15:52<Ammler>load the save in SP and save it
15:52<Ammler>and use that save for the MP
15:52<Buschi>i can load it but the new save file has the same prob
15:53<Ammler>which scenario?
15:53<Buschi>TheNetherland
15:54<@peter1138>Pikka: uh, random action 2 maybe?
15:54<Ammler>Buschi: linky
15:54<+glx>Buschi: open it in scenedit and remove the grfs
15:54<@peter1138>unless you mean something else :)
15:54<Ammler>glx: doesn't that happen automatically, if you load it in SP?
15:54<Pikka>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=37976 peter
15:54<+glx>Ammler: no
15:56<@peter1138>ah yes, random action 2 does things based on the bits, instead of just giving you the bits
15:56<Ammler>Buschi: all grfs with a red square.
15:56<@Belugas>is this acceptable? http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/patches/Cant_build_rivers.diff
15:57<@peter1138>yes
15:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13511 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: add a reference to objects given in Valuate(), so they remain valid during their usage. This allows nameless functions (lambda functions) in Valuate() on long lists.
15:57<Buschi>thx
15:57<Buschi>thx
15:57<Ammler>Belugas: can you also remove the desync thing, so you are able to build rivers with patched client?
15:57<Buschi>thx
15:57<@peter1138>"remove the desync thing"? what?
15:57<Buschi>i remove it now it works
15:58<Buschi>cu
15:58-!-Buschi [~Deimodder@e180226130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit []
15:58<@Belugas>nevr mind peter1138, it's the fruit of a nut-cracked brain
15:58<Ammler>:-)
15:59<@Belugas>pretty commun these days... :)
16:02-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@92.17.137.47] has joined #openttd
16:02<@peter1138>Pikka: i guess it needs a new var :o
16:02<insulfrog>hi
16:03<Pikka>possibly, peter :O
16:03<@peter1138>no, definitely
16:03<@peter1138>well, or your method :o
16:04<Pikka>uhuh :P
16:12<insulfrog>Pikkabird, is that you?
16:13<Pikka>I'll check
16:13<Pikka>yep, it's me!
16:13<insulfrog>yay, another trainz member :p
16:13<Sacro>hey insulfrog, you should join us in #simsig too
16:13<Pikka>lies!
16:14<insulfrog>hmm ¬_¬
16:14<Sacro>Pikka: no, it really is you
16:15<Pikka>for a given value of "is", Sacro...
16:15<Pikka>and "you"
16:15<Pikka>and "really".
16:15<Sacro>pff
16:15-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|afk
16:17<insulfrog>im currently on the openttdcoop server atm
16:18*insulfrog thinks why i originally came here :p
16:18<insulfrog>ah i know
16:19-!-mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
16:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: truebrain * r13512 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
16:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: don't load a library over and over, but keep track of which libraries we have loaded (per AI) and re-use it where possible (reduces memory-footprint)
16:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: change the fake-library-name-counter to a per AI value, not global
16:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: Load the script inside the thread, not in the main thread. This avoids unneeded error-handling
16:19<insulfrog>I have heared that there was a feature on the MiniN (which is discontinued, i know) where you are allowed to run your trains on other company's line but i forgot what its called :p
16:19<+glx>subsidiaries
16:20<insulfrog>ah, thats it
16:21-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:21<Pikka|afk>Belugas doesn't like it ;)
16:21<+glx>me neither (was a hell to sync miniin because of it)
16:22<@SmatZ>insulfrog: maybe tracksharing
16:23<insulfrog>I think its a great little feature, perhaps If I know what to do, perhaps I *could* try and do some improvement
16:23<@SmatZ>which one?
16:23<insulfrog>@SmartZ: thats a good name for it
16:24<@SmatZ>well, tracksharing and subsidiaries are two different patches
16:24<insulfrog>that subsideries thingy
16:24<@SmatZ>subidiaries = you can control more companies
16:24<@SmatZ>tracksharing = you can use tracks / depots / stations of other companies
16:25<insulfrog>and track-sharing is it does exactly it says on the tin ;)
16:27<planetmaker>insulfrog: well: it allows you to use other players infrastructure - if they allow you to.
16:28<insulfrog>I do have MS Visual Studio
16:28<insulfrog>but I never seem to got round to use it properly :)
16:31*insulfrog and goes and does some digging around
16:32*insulfrog found what he has been looking for
16:34<planetmaker>hm... how many owners can a tile have?
16:34<@Belugas>144
16:35<planetmaker>or put differently: what will GetTileOwner(tile) return, if player 1 and 2 own it?
16:35<@Belugas>can you try and see what it does?
16:36<planetmaker>what will a check GetTileOwner(tile) == _current_player result in...? hm... yes I can :P
16:36<@SmatZ>planetmaker: 3 owners
16:36<@frosch123>If you are talking about roads (and not IS), try GetRoadOwner()
16:36<planetmaker>actually: I'm working on IS :)
16:37<@Belugas>i think you may have to adapt the system then...
16:37<planetmaker>And used GetTileOwner to determine who may control a train.
16:37*planetmaker goes testing some stuff
16:37<@frosch123>In trunk railroad have only one owner :s
16:37<planetmaker>in IS they have, too.
16:38<planetmaker>Is there a proc to check for track ownership?
16:38<planetmaker>(instead of tile)
16:40<@SmatZ>IsTileOwner
16:40<@SmatZ>it is always equal to track owner
16:40<@SmatZ>if there is track
16:43-!-divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:44<planetmaker>SmatZ: Thx :)
16:49<Wuisch>by the amount of fireworks i'm Guessing holland won with soccer?
16:51*valhallasw nods
16:52<valhallasw>at least, last time I checked it was 3(NL)-1(FR)
16:52<valhallasw>m, even 4-1
16:52<@peter1138>football :o
16:52<@Belugas>soccer!
16:53<@peter1138>wrong
16:53<@peter1138>football
16:53<@Belugas>heheh
16:53<@SmatZ>kickball
16:54<insulfrog>right im off, cya :)
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17:08*Belugas is leaving the office and happily goes in a well eearned weekend
17:08<@Belugas>byebye
17:08<Mchl>bye
17:11<dragonhorseboy>any of you know if double tenders were usually on separate trucks or its possible that there could had been an articulated tender somewhere?
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17:21<@peter1138>could have
17:22<planetmaker>bye Belugas & have a nice WE
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17:34<Smari>Ahoy.
17:34<dragonhorseboy>hey
17:34*Mchl goodnights
17:35-!-Mchl [~mchl@abeo101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: gnight]
17:36<Smari>Question, slightly off-topic: I'm wondering what software was used during the initial decompiling of TTD... I've got my eye on going through the process with another game (Fragile Allegiance) and after having been reading through hexdumps and disassembly outputs for two days I'm getting to be fairly sure there's a faster way.
17:38<Sacro>Smari: ID iirc
17:38<Sacro>* IDA
17:38<Smari>ID?
17:38<Smari>IDA. Yes. Damnit, don't want to spend $500 :P
17:38<dragonhorseboy>sacro :p
17:38<Sacro>*cough*torrents
17:39<Smari>Yah. There's always that. But does IDA run on anything besides Windows?
17:40<Sacro>IDA Pro is a Windows or Linux hosted multi-processor disassembler and debugger that offers so many features it is hard to describe them all.
17:41<Smari>OpenTTD is brilliant btw. Worth mentioning since I'm here. A lot of tax payer money has been spent with me slacking off in OpenTTD.
17:42<Smari>Mm
17:42<Smari>Torrent it is. :)
17:43<Smari>Will ships be improved at all in coming versions?
17:44<Smari>I feel that ships are way too powerless.
17:45<dragonhorseboy>powerless...how?
17:47<Smari>Like, compared to other modes of transport ships are very weak. Hardly worth using at all.
17:47<Smari>I was thinking about this earlier and I challenged my friend to a net game with all modes of transport except ships forbidden... it was extremely hard to get to a level of income comfort.
17:47<dragonhorseboy>smari...I've never had any problem with ships
17:48<dragonhorseboy>I've put them on more or less for fluid cargo and coastal-shortdistance goods runs
17:51<Smari>Compare Yate Cargo ship to Darwin 300 converted for cargo hauling.
17:51<Smari>In reality the benefit of using ships is they haul oh so much more cargo.
17:52<Smari>In TTD the ships haul similar loads to the biggest planes and go significantly slower, with a similar life span and a pretty high price tag all things considered.
17:53<Smari>Also, there are relatively few types of ships compared to aircraft.
17:54<dragonhorseboy>'few types'? have you see newships grf yet? just wondering
17:55-!-ben_goodger [~ben@host86-146-18-220.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
17:56<Smari>Hehe
17:56<Smari>I haven't actually checked it out, no.
17:57<@peter1138>it still only has 10 ships
17:57<@peter1138>or whatever the limit was
17:57<dragonhorseboy>at least its more friendly toward custom cargos :p
17:57<@SmatZ>even with enginepool?
18:04-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<Smari>Off to play with newships. Thanks for info.
18:08-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.184.214] has joined #openttd
18:10<dragonhorseboy>smari :p what trainset you using?
18:12<[1]Roujin>SmatZ: I think he was talking about a given set, that has existed before enginepool was known of. AFAIK with the enginepool it should be possible for a grf to contain more than [the old limit] ships
18:12<[1]Roujin>but it won't make an old set (which existed before the engine pool) suddenly contain more ships, that is.. ;)
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18:23<Smari>dragonhorseboy, which do you recommend?
18:30-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: ZZzz--,,..]
18:31<Wolf01>'night
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18:35<Ammler>How do I switch off YAPP on a yapp build?
18:36<Progman>just dont use the signals ;)
18:36<Ammler>hmm
18:36<ben_goodger>evening, gentlemen [and ladies, improbably]
18:36<Ammler>there is no setting to disable it?
18:38<dragonhorseboy>sorry was afk...
18:38<dragonhorseboy>smari you still there?
18:43<ecke>is there any stable version of ottd with sharing of railway tracks?
18:44<dragonhorseboy>ecke I've and still am playing with the last mini-in from time to time but if you don't want get that all I can think of is for you to compile your own openttd with that one patch added in
18:45<ecke>i need stable version which can be playeble for longet time over net
18:46<ecke>i dont want play with friends 6 hours and then have snyc error and no countinuation
18:46<dragonhorseboy>sync error = usually the network ;)
18:46<dragonhorseboy>(well...ethernet network I mean)
18:47<ecke>i mean error which block other playing
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19:04<dragonhorseboy>any of you ever liked thomas the tank engine?
19:06-!-a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has left #openttd [/part]
19:06<fjb>No
19:13<dragonhorseboy>fjb...new and/or old?
19:15<fjb>Both
19:16<dragonhorseboy>ah hm ok
19:16<dragonhorseboy>I liked the old one (especially when produced by Britt) but the newer one from the usa company is pretty much almost all downhill that I can't bother ever buying it :/
19:17*dragonhorseboy has several tapes (one is a christmas special too even) from britt here
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19:21<Ammler>ecke: try TibPP
19:21<Ammler>semms very stabel
19:22<dragonhorseboy>tibpp?
19:22<Ammler>a german server runned it the whole day without crash
19:22<Ammler>it might still running :-)
19:23<ecke>hm
19:25<@peter1138>runned!
19:27<Ammler>ran
19:27<dragonhorseboy>hm that server looks nice only..why uk vehicles in german? no mercedes.grf or something instead? :p
19:27<Ammler>thx :-)
19:27*dragonhorseboy is just looking at server details
19:28<Ammler>:-) they seem to have a long day only 14 years for the whole day
19:29<Ammler>1year=1hour
19:30<Ammler>good night everyone
19:30<dragonhorseboy>bye ammler
19:31<Smari>dragonhorseboy, yup, just got back.
19:31<Smari>I sadly haven't actually messed about with new GRFs enough until now.
19:31<Smari>It severely changes the experience..
19:32<Smari>Brilliant addons.
19:32<dragonhorseboy>smari heh well you want hear what I like to use for temperate climate almost all the times? ;)
19:32-!-SirBob [~chatzilla@c122-107-227-146.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
19:34<Smari>Sure
19:37<dragonhorseboy>dbsetxl, russia planes, newships, newstations, industry stations, czech stations, tram tracks (with revised halt sprites), canals, wooden dock, ttrs2 (town replacement), long vehicles, hm and several other minor landscape/building grfs
19:40<@peter1138>not ttrs3?
19:41<dragonhorseboy>it keep having bugs and I never could understand why so
19:41<@peter1138>hmm
19:41<@peter1138>but you use long vehicles which is buggy by design
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19:42<Pikka|afk>long buggies?
19:42-!-Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka
19:42<dragonhorseboy>well I've never seen one single bug ever since I used it through the v3-1/2 and then also the v4 versions
19:43<dragonhorseboy>(aside to them not always fitting right into these old deadend road stations)
19:43<@Belugas>v4?
19:45<Pikka>right, buggrit
19:45*Pikka writes a random action 2 that goes to 128 var action 2s
19:45<@peter1138>:o
19:46<dragonhorseboy>beside when I look at it there's german trains, german&nearby road vehicles, and neighbouring russia planes .. kinda just about almost perfect
19:46<dragonhorseboy>need some german-specific town buildings yet tho but not too nitpicky on that
19:46<dragonhorseboy>(and yes I play it with DEM currency)
19:46*dragonhorseboy hehs
19:47<@peter1138>clearly ignore the single most obvious bug in lv4 -- they're too long
19:48<@Belugas>baa... it's jsut bounding box problem...
19:48<@Belugas>hhehe
19:48*Belugas hides
19:48<Pikka>it's just a george-drew-them-ridiculously-large problem. :P
19:49<@Belugas>:)
19:49<dragonhorseboy>well then someone explain to me why almost all trains look too large for the town buildings and some industries? ;)
19:49<dragonhorseboy>there's never really one single scale in ttdp save openttd I guess
19:49<@Belugas>I've got my ghost-track! I've got my ghost-track! tralalalereuh
19:50<dragonhorseboy>hehehehe
19:50<Pikka>what is a ghost track, Belugas?
19:51<@Belugas>something wonderfull that willkeep me out of OpenTTD for a little bit :D
19:51<Pikka>drat!
19:51<@peter1138>hehe
19:51<@Belugas>it's a musical track on a multi-track recorder that is really a draft
19:52<@Belugas>so you record with a better finish all the instruments, while keeping the original idea as a guideline
19:52<@Belugas>and...
19:52<@Belugas>see you in a few moments :D
19:55<dragonhorseboy>either way if there was a way to have 2x2 road stations then I'm sure that even B-trains would have no problem fitting in (if not a bit weirdly due to no smooth turning)
19:55<dragonhorseboy>^-^
20:01<@peter1138>nini
20:01<dragonhorseboy>bye peter
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20:10<@Belugas>damned...
20:11<Pikka>I say I say
20:11<@Belugas>there is a big difference between listening to the song at work and trying to play it...
20:11<@Belugas>you first got to LEARN it!
20:11<ben_goodger>just "damn", you'll find
20:11<Pikka>do advanced var 2 operators 12 and 13 work in OTTD? :)
20:11<@Belugas>altoug, it was fun :D
20:11<@Belugas>hem...
20:11<@Belugas>good question
20:11<@Belugas>i'd try to find the answer
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20:14<Pikka>I suppose I could try it and see what happens...
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20:16<@Belugas>it's a possibility :)
20:16<@Belugas>i need to know what it is and where it should be called
20:16<@Belugas>if ever it's possible...
20:17<Pikka>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Advanced <- operator 12 and 13
20:17<Pikka>"Result is 0 if val1<val2, 1 if val1=val2 and 2 if val1>val2"
20:18<@Belugas>ok
20:18<@Belugas>good lead :)
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20:21*Belugas is searching a niddle in a ?haie? stack
20:22-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:22<@Belugas>answer: YES WE DO!
20:23<@Belugas> case DSGA_OP_SCMP: return ((S)last_value == (S)value) ? 1 : ((S)last_value < (S)value ? 0 : 2);
20:23<@Belugas> case DSGA_OP_UCMP: return ((U)last_value == (U)value) ? 1 : ((U)last_value < (U)value ? 0 : 2);
20:23<Pikka>huzzah!
20:23<@Belugas>DSGA_OP_SCMP = 12
20:23<Wuisch>Thats amazing!
20:23<@Belugas>DSCA_OP_UCMP = 13
20:23<@Belugas>what's amazing is that i've found out ;)
20:25<Wuisch>well you can't expect me to not know what you're talking about and give correct compliments... I'm doing the best I can
20:26<@Belugas>two negative means one positive?
20:26<@Belugas>mmh..
20:26<ben_goodger>what's it for?
20:26<@Belugas>tahks anyway ;)
20:26<Wuisch>well time to catch up on a nother 3 years of the dailyshow I wish you all good luck and may all your DSGA_OPS return Variables
20:28<Pikka>doot doot doot
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20:40<Sacro>Pikka: paaaaarp
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20:53<@Belugas>hehe
20:55<@Belugas>ben_goodger, it's a sort of processing been done on the result of a "regular" action 2 var return
20:55<@Belugas>grosso modo
20:55<ben_goodger>evidently
20:55<ben_goodger>what is it _for_? :P
20:56<+glx>all the nice things like wagon liveries dependant on engine
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21:04<Pikka>ben goodger: specifically, in an action 2 that takes a random value, multiplys it by 2, adds 1796, and then sees if that number is less or equal to the current year, it's the "seeing if that number is less or equal to" bit. :)
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21:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13513 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt terraform_gui.cpp water_cmd.cpp):
21:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Give proper message when building a river fails.
21:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Give proper description of a river tile with the Query Tool.
21:09<CIA-3>OpenTTD: Extracted (in part) from FS#1884, by Ammler
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21:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13514 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Removal of dead code (or useless, to be more exact)
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22:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: belugas * r13515 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Widget enumification for scenario editor
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